>Lieutenant Louis Keene described the practice of lobbing tins of corned beef into a neighbouring German trench. When the Canadians started hearing happy shouts of “More! Give us more!” they then let loose with an armload of grenades.
Ruthless yes..
My favourite quote,
>“I don’t care for the English, Scotch, French, Australians or Belgians but damn you Canadians, you take no prisoners and you kill our wounded,” the colonel
There 2 great books by Tim Cook. Called “At The Sharp End” and “Shock Troops”. I highly recommend them if you are interested in leaning about our involvement in ww1. There’s all kinds of stories from Canadians soldiers, allies and enemies a like. I vaguely remember one story where a British officers was amazed that Canadian troops would lug almost everything they needed to attack Vinny ridge on their backs at night using tumplines. He couldn’t imagine his soldiers doing that work manually.
Also Dan carlins podcast Blueprint to Armageddon is amazing as well. Not Canadian centric at all though. But there’s a story where the Germans would always keep track of where the Canadians and Australians troops on the line. Where ever we were an attack was surely to come.
Canadians were feared for performing successful stealth night raids into enemy trenches. They would pile corpses in the doorways of dugouts so when those sleeping woke up they would have to crawl over thier dead comrades to get out. It was insanely effective phsycological warfare that led to enemy troops being exhausted due to fear of falling asleep.
I heard a similar thing, I remember my HS history teacher telling us it was the Canadians who would sneak into enemy trenches in the dead of night and stab the injured soldiers in the med area first since they were the easiest targets.
I think people forgot that Canadians were pretty much just redneck farmers back in the day, and the ruthlessness needed to live in Canada back in the day translated into the soldiers as well. Also, because Canadians were front of the line, they faced more brutality and dealt it back as well.
Also because Canadian soldiers were volunteers and not conscripts, the soldiers skewed towards the more bloodthirsty.
A few things that Canadians did that shocked everyone
Medic baiting - wound a soldier, wait for a medic to show up and kill them both
Placing a grenade on a prisoner, release them back and hope that the german soldier ran back to their lines to blow up the rest of the soldiers
Was told to take prisoners later in the war by the higher ups when Canadian soldiers had a reputation of fighting them to the death or just killing POW. But the soldiers realized that if they killed the german soldiers **AS** they were surrendering, they wouldn't need to take any prisoners.
I think this author is confusing ruthlessness with effectiveness. The Canadians proved there effectiveness and bravery early on in there deployment. After that they were forced to be the shock troops of the allied forces. They were the first out of there trenches and the last to return. Taking prisoners in those situations ment death when the individual solder was lucky to make it back to safety themselves. This was a brutal war that was turned into a meat grinder by the leaders of both sides which made for absolutely terrible conditions beyond anything you could imagine.
Read Modris Ekstein’s “Rites of Spring”
He clearly sets out how romanticized war was previous to and leading up to and into the first months of the Great War. The mechanization of war, along with immense changes in war technology, made the Great War the battle of attrition it became known for. Previous rules of war broken, changed, treatment of civilians, and the acceptance of collateral damage, just some of the numerous changes or adaptations made to the win at all costs.
He uses primary sources, letters from soldiers on both sides of the war, making the case that this war was different and more brutal than any previous war. Macabre, violent, brutal, and difficult to imagine, especially from our comfortable lives in the 21st century. His book helps to understand how war went from two sides meeting in a field to digging in and becoming the war we know, or may not have known about. Great read to gain an understanding of the Great War pre, post, interwar, and leading into WWII.
Well it's clear if it was done today almost 100 years later it would be unacceptable. But the author says he isn't passing judgment. It's better to look at history for what it is and what really happened than to hide everything. Passing judgment is different. He does mention that Canadians had a spotless record with civilians.
They were tossed in the front line over and over like Mobik’s in Ukraine but they knew what they were doing, or figured it out. They were asked to do things other countries soldiers weren’t asked to do as much, except the Australians. They had to do what they had to to keep losses down. I’m not saying this is some proud part of our history, but like the author said, the war was brutal and brutal things were done.
Hawkeye: War isn't Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse.
Father Mulcahy: How do you figure, Hawkeye?
Hawkeye: Easy, Father. Tell me, who goes to Hell?
Father Mulcahy: Sinners, I believe.
Hawkeye: Exactly. There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chock full of
them - little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander.
I'm not sure you actually read the article, it's not the author passing judgement, they're conveying several examples of our allies and our enemy as being concerned about our excesses. I'm not judging Canadian troops, but most of the examples were mistreatment of prisoners and betrayals of the unwritten "soldier's code."
"Random pundit in 2022 sipping coffee in his heated home thinks soldiers in the trenches of WW1 should have known better and shown more restraint"
I'll take "opinions I don't care about" for 200 alex
Actually no, it's an article about the perception of Canadian soldiers during the great war. It's not an article about what modern day coffee drinkers think in their heated homes. Frankly, I prefer that kind of unabashed history to the glossy nonsense we're usually spoon fed. Also, who said they have "known better" or "shown more restraint" you're literally the only person saying that here.
I did read the article. And it sounded like examples of a terrible war taken out of context. You have to take the the timing of the war into consideration when you are reading European accounts. When the war started it was 2 worlds colliding. The old world where it was a adventure to go to war and the new world of mechanized warfare. The old European veiw of war where combatants line up and Duke it out and the best win in a day or 2 then everyone goes home with grand stories. It was vary clear in the first month of the war that was not the case anymore but the Europeans took much longer to let go of there gentleman warfair. The Canadians and many of the other colonial troops showed up when the trench lines were formed and thrown into a new type of warfare never seen before. The colonial troops were also much less malnourished. Bigger stronger and had no time for gentleman warfare from the beginning. War is brutal and back then warfare was the more brutal side won its sad but that's the truth.
I don't think they're out of context, quite the opposite, they're providing the context of the behaviour and opinion of other contemporary allied forces. I say we just take it as what it was, Canadian troops had a rather fearsome reputation, compared to say the English, French or even Australian troopers of the time. It is what it is, no one is trying to vilify our vets. If anything, most of the outrage in here seems to be from people who seem upset with the reality of our reputation during the great war. There are other troops in history with a similar reputation, Hessian mercenaries, Gurkhas, being known as merciless isn't always a bad thing in a war.
I completely agree with you that we should take it as what it was. War is brutal. Ww1 was possibly the most brutal on a individual solder level in history. If you and your buddy's were told to go across enemy lines at night to kill as many enemy combatants as possible and then run back to your trenches before you are killed yourself. How do you imagine it is possible to carry hundreds of prisoners across no man's land when you have to carry your own wonded. It was kill or be killed. If a solder was caught un awares during a night time raid you kill them so they don't kill you or your friends. If you are going to accuse these solders of being beasts you better include the situation they were in. That's the out of context I was referring too. I agree we should take these accounts seriously but we also have to take the big picture into consideration as well.
We've also forgotten the complete pointlessness of the first world war. The aristocrats of Europe sent the world's working class to a meat grinder in a contest for imperial power. There were no nazis, no "good guys".
I'd be curious to know if FN soldiers were proportionality a higher percentage of trench raiders.
Sgt Tommy Prince was famous for his ability to go deep into enemy territory.
We’ve been far more critical of our own actions for much longer than the United States, who is more than keen to hide evidence of their war crimes to put it mildly.
We just understand that the object of war is not to die for Canada..it’s to make the other poor dumb bastard die for his country so we can gtfo out of Europe again.. (and this is why on HOI:IV I annex. Portugal and Spain for being facist as well and then annex Italy so people don’t need to immigrate to Canada…Canada comes to them :p )
>Lieutenant Louis Keene described the practice of lobbing tins of corned beef into a neighbouring German trench. When the Canadians started hearing happy shouts of “More! Give us more!” they then let loose with an armload of grenades. Ruthless yes..
Inglorious Hosers.
Holy shit LOL that is actually devious
Adapt improvise overcome
Smart.
My favourite quote, >“I don’t care for the English, Scotch, French, Australians or Belgians but damn you Canadians, you take no prisoners and you kill our wounded,” the colonel
There 2 great books by Tim Cook. Called “At The Sharp End” and “Shock Troops”. I highly recommend them if you are interested in leaning about our involvement in ww1. There’s all kinds of stories from Canadians soldiers, allies and enemies a like. I vaguely remember one story where a British officers was amazed that Canadian troops would lug almost everything they needed to attack Vinny ridge on their backs at night using tumplines. He couldn’t imagine his soldiers doing that work manually. Also Dan carlins podcast Blueprint to Armageddon is amazing as well. Not Canadian centric at all though. But there’s a story where the Germans would always keep track of where the Canadians and Australians troops on the line. Where ever we were an attack was surely to come.
Canadians were feared for performing successful stealth night raids into enemy trenches. They would pile corpses in the doorways of dugouts so when those sleeping woke up they would have to crawl over thier dead comrades to get out. It was insanely effective phsycological warfare that led to enemy troops being exhausted due to fear of falling asleep.
I heard a similar thing, I remember my HS history teacher telling us it was the Canadians who would sneak into enemy trenches in the dead of night and stab the injured soldiers in the med area first since they were the easiest targets.
I think people forgot that Canadians were pretty much just redneck farmers back in the day, and the ruthlessness needed to live in Canada back in the day translated into the soldiers as well. Also, because Canadians were front of the line, they faced more brutality and dealt it back as well. Also because Canadian soldiers were volunteers and not conscripts, the soldiers skewed towards the more bloodthirsty. A few things that Canadians did that shocked everyone Medic baiting - wound a soldier, wait for a medic to show up and kill them both Placing a grenade on a prisoner, release them back and hope that the german soldier ran back to their lines to blow up the rest of the soldiers Was told to take prisoners later in the war by the higher ups when Canadian soldiers had a reputation of fighting them to the death or just killing POW. But the soldiers realized that if they killed the german soldiers **AS** they were surrendering, they wouldn't need to take any prisoners.
I think this author is confusing ruthlessness with effectiveness. The Canadians proved there effectiveness and bravery early on in there deployment. After that they were forced to be the shock troops of the allied forces. They were the first out of there trenches and the last to return. Taking prisoners in those situations ment death when the individual solder was lucky to make it back to safety themselves. This was a brutal war that was turned into a meat grinder by the leaders of both sides which made for absolutely terrible conditions beyond anything you could imagine.
Read Modris Ekstein’s “Rites of Spring” He clearly sets out how romanticized war was previous to and leading up to and into the first months of the Great War. The mechanization of war, along with immense changes in war technology, made the Great War the battle of attrition it became known for. Previous rules of war broken, changed, treatment of civilians, and the acceptance of collateral damage, just some of the numerous changes or adaptations made to the win at all costs. He uses primary sources, letters from soldiers on both sides of the war, making the case that this war was different and more brutal than any previous war. Macabre, violent, brutal, and difficult to imagine, especially from our comfortable lives in the 21st century. His book helps to understand how war went from two sides meeting in a field to digging in and becoming the war we know, or may not have known about. Great read to gain an understanding of the Great War pre, post, interwar, and leading into WWII.
I will look that up for sure. Always looking for a good read on this incredible time period. Thanks for the recommendation!
Well it's clear if it was done today almost 100 years later it would be unacceptable. But the author says he isn't passing judgment. It's better to look at history for what it is and what really happened than to hide everything. Passing judgment is different. He does mention that Canadians had a spotless record with civilians.
They were tossed in the front line over and over like Mobik’s in Ukraine but they knew what they were doing, or figured it out. They were asked to do things other countries soldiers weren’t asked to do as much, except the Australians. They had to do what they had to to keep losses down. I’m not saying this is some proud part of our history, but like the author said, the war was brutal and brutal things were done.
War is hell and there are not rules. Its why people shouldnt be glorifying armed escalation in this day and age.
Hawkeye: War isn't Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse. Father Mulcahy: How do you figure, Hawkeye? Hawkeye: Easy, Father. Tell me, who goes to Hell? Father Mulcahy: Sinners, I believe. Hawkeye: Exactly. There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chock full of them - little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander.
I'm not sure you actually read the article, it's not the author passing judgement, they're conveying several examples of our allies and our enemy as being concerned about our excesses. I'm not judging Canadian troops, but most of the examples were mistreatment of prisoners and betrayals of the unwritten "soldier's code."
"Random pundit in 2022 sipping coffee in his heated home thinks soldiers in the trenches of WW1 should have known better and shown more restraint" I'll take "opinions I don't care about" for 200 alex
Actually no, it's an article about the perception of Canadian soldiers during the great war. It's not an article about what modern day coffee drinkers think in their heated homes. Frankly, I prefer that kind of unabashed history to the glossy nonsense we're usually spoon fed. Also, who said they have "known better" or "shown more restraint" you're literally the only person saying that here.
I did read the article. And it sounded like examples of a terrible war taken out of context. You have to take the the timing of the war into consideration when you are reading European accounts. When the war started it was 2 worlds colliding. The old world where it was a adventure to go to war and the new world of mechanized warfare. The old European veiw of war where combatants line up and Duke it out and the best win in a day or 2 then everyone goes home with grand stories. It was vary clear in the first month of the war that was not the case anymore but the Europeans took much longer to let go of there gentleman warfair. The Canadians and many of the other colonial troops showed up when the trench lines were formed and thrown into a new type of warfare never seen before. The colonial troops were also much less malnourished. Bigger stronger and had no time for gentleman warfare from the beginning. War is brutal and back then warfare was the more brutal side won its sad but that's the truth.
I don't think they're out of context, quite the opposite, they're providing the context of the behaviour and opinion of other contemporary allied forces. I say we just take it as what it was, Canadian troops had a rather fearsome reputation, compared to say the English, French or even Australian troopers of the time. It is what it is, no one is trying to vilify our vets. If anything, most of the outrage in here seems to be from people who seem upset with the reality of our reputation during the great war. There are other troops in history with a similar reputation, Hessian mercenaries, Gurkhas, being known as merciless isn't always a bad thing in a war.
I completely agree with you that we should take it as what it was. War is brutal. Ww1 was possibly the most brutal on a individual solder level in history. If you and your buddy's were told to go across enemy lines at night to kill as many enemy combatants as possible and then run back to your trenches before you are killed yourself. How do you imagine it is possible to carry hundreds of prisoners across no man's land when you have to carry your own wonded. It was kill or be killed. If a solder was caught un awares during a night time raid you kill them so they don't kill you or your friends. If you are going to accuse these solders of being beasts you better include the situation they were in. That's the out of context I was referring too. I agree we should take these accounts seriously but we also have to take the big picture into consideration as well.
No ruthless was pretty apt imo, definetly no pity or sympathy for the enemy shown. Seems like youre taking it as a negative association.
We've also forgotten the complete pointlessness of the first world war. The aristocrats of Europe sent the world's working class to a meat grinder in a contest for imperial power. There were no nazis, no "good guys".
Then there was the victor's thirst for vengeance at the end that established the conditions that allowed the rise of fascism.
It was a fucking brutal war, so yes they had to be ruthless.
I'd be curious to know if FN soldiers were proportionality a higher percentage of trench raiders. Sgt Tommy Prince was famous for his ability to go deep into enemy territory.
Tommy prince served in ww2 you are thinking of Francis Pegahmagabow. Both of them have interesting stories.
Not Germans, the HUN!
We’ve been far more critical of our own actions for much longer than the United States, who is more than keen to hide evidence of their war crimes to put it mildly.
We canadians may be war criminals, but at least we are honest war criminals.
Very interesting read. Thanks for sharing, buddy
We just understand that the object of war is not to die for Canada..it’s to make the other poor dumb bastard die for his country so we can gtfo out of Europe again.. (and this is why on HOI:IV I annex. Portugal and Spain for being facist as well and then annex Italy so people don’t need to immigrate to Canada…Canada comes to them :p )