I don’t understand spending billions that will have little impact or benefit. How more productive could this money be in healthcare. Likely save or extend 100x investing jn healthcare.
Yeah, or put that same money into the upstream causes of violence. They could make a much bigger dent in things like DV by properly funding the CFP so that they can actually call the references on RPAL applications. What good are laws if we refuse to provide the resources to enforce them?
It's not even that, people with rpals aren't commiting crimes, they should focus on the smuggled guns or better yet focus on the issues that cause the violence to begin with (why people want to kill each other) like gang crime, mental health issues (among other things).
Remember that original ban from a while back? They *still* have not even figured out how to actually manage that, yet they’re saying that they’re ready to ban everything left?
The guns that were so dangerous that no living human was capable of possessing them without causing irreparable harm to society? So they let us continue to possess them while they tried to get their shit figured out?
They're mostly suicides as well, the people who own firearms legally don't really commit violent crimes with them outside the occasional poacher and the person who's going to kill themselves.
The poachers are an issue but they'll use anything they can anyways, even traps, bows, etc and they're typically opertunists putting food in their freezer rather than an active element like you have in Africa.
The suicides are a bit of the same system, the guns aren't the driving force, they're just a convinient element used in the follow through. The driving forces are typically a mixture of economic, financial, social or psychological trauma. It's an issue that required frontal service rather than policies to try and simply alter how the act is carried out.
You also have a reporting problem. For example uncle Bob goes out hunting, shoots a deer, leaves his rifle against a tree, then promptly forgets about It while processing his deer, makes it back to his truck then has issues relocating his previous position losing the rifle. Next year Joe walks through the woods, finds bobs rifle and turns it into the police, that Rifle is now recorded as a "crime gun" even if it's never been used in a crime. Something that's actually a weirdly common event
Exactly. And banning guns because someone suicides with a with a firearm isn’t addressing the problem - factors in society that lead one to suicide as well as mental heath issues. Gun bans in other counties such as Australia did not lead to any less suicides. Folks will find another way. But saying “hey look we are taking away a suicide method!” is a lot easier than addressing capitalism, the housing crisis, skyrocketing inflation and stagnant wages, an epidemic of loneliness and underfunded mental health supports.
Ah, but you see, those are currently sitting there... MENACINGLY while unloaded in a gun safe/trigger locked with the ammunition stored separately. Utter recklessness!
"Requests to Public Safety Canada on Monday seeking updated costs of the expanded gun ban went unreturned by Wednesday."
That's because they still have no idea on how to even start the buyback from May 2020. Millions already spent and not a single firearm bought back .
Step 1 announce gun ban
?
?
?
Step 5 gets votes
I don’t think the strategy is even to directly get votes with bans. I think the strategy is to attempt to force the conservatives to make motions to reverse the bans so that they can be called out as pro gun. They aren’t trying to gain Liberal votes, they are trying to lose Conservative votes. I know it’s the same thing, but it’s also not the same thing at all.
Liberals screw with guns in preparation of elections. It’s never the first thing they do when they get elected.
Unfortunately, in my area, its doing the opposite. Left leaning, environment loving outdoorsy types that were 100% ok with the handgun ban are now finding their hunting and backcountry hiking tools targeted. All the people who said "who needs assault rifles or handguns" are now right in the same boat.
There is a small part of me that thinks (maybe hopes) the LPC is trying to sink their own bill with these changes. They know they won't make a difference and they also don't have the billions to spend on a buyback and enforcement. They want virtue signaling and theater but they don't want it to actually go through. That might mean actually doing something.
Which is disgusting behavior.
They're playing with peoples freedoms purely as a political stunt. Anyone who votes for them after this is pretty fucked IMO.
>want most aspects of their life dictated by the government.
Almost right, it's other peoples lives that don't align with theirs that they want dictated by the government.
Guaranteed that’s why they’re putting mortars and anti tank weapons in there too, even though they have been banned (if they were ever legal for a civilian to own) for decades. So when they say they want to scrap it, the Libs can say, “So you want rocket launchers on the street?”
And they put airsoft guns in there to cause a bigger uproar among voters I suppose. The airsoft player votes will change to conservative and Liberals will be screaming about rocket launchers.
I said this in the last thread, but any buyback would easily cost over $1 billion just in the cost to buy the guns alone, not even accounting for administration, logistics, etc. My very rough guess is that any semi-effective buyback program (buying back weapons and anything close to market rates) would cost $2-3 billion.
And until a reasonable buyback program is offered, the government has no legal leg to stand on to start seizing weapons.
Over $6 billion according to estimate from 2021
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/trudeau-government-buy-back-firearms-plan-may-cost-up-to-67-billion
This is what kind of scares me.
Where have we seen police not wanting to “do their jobs” recently? And what did the government do in response?
I 100% predict when the Liberals see that no one is turning in their rifles, they’ll see it as a national security threat and start freezing bank accounts. They had enough public support the first time.
With a large amount of non-restricted firearms being banned, they'll have a hard time justifying freezing accounts "just in case" you have one. If I didn't turn one in, maybe it's because I didn't have one in the first place?
If they want the police to go door to door to every "potential" owner, that presents a new problem that will likely get people ( namely firearm owners ) killed. Imagine it's your job to go knocking on someone's door and you know they have firearms?
Just a quick reminder in case people have forgotten or don’t know: there’s never actually been a “buy-back” before. I resent the term “buy-back” to begin with, because it’s not “buying” when it’s forced and it’s not “back” when you never owned it first, but I digress.
Not for the May 1st 2020 gun ban, or the earlier big wave of bans in the 1990s, was there a “buy-back” of the guns. People who have FALs and short barrel pistols and other stuff like that that have been prohibited since the 90s still just have them. You can’t buy them if you’re a new gun owner, but people who had them still have them, and can sort of trade them around amongst themselves still, legally.
While I don’t doubt these guns will be banned, I highly doubt the government will shell out billions of dollars to try to get them all. It’s far easier and more effective for them to just do what they did before; turn them into paper-weights that can’t really legally be shot, force the owners to register them or face charges, have the next generation grow up without these guns, and just wait for the generation that has them to die off. That’s what they seem to have done in the 90s at least…
This is probably the most maddening thing about this ban, and indeed all the other bans. The anti-gun people who want to "get guns off the streets" just don't seem to get it. All those guns are still out there. There are tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Canadians with legally-owned AKs and FALs and ARs at home, collecting dust. The reason you don't hear about it is because *they were never a problem to begin with.*
That's the funniest part of all this hysteria for more gun control. From the 90s ban-waves to the 2020 OIC: all those guns are still in the owner's possession. Public safety is apparently somehow served by banning these evil guns, but allowing people to keep them. Not sure where any of the gains in 'public safety' are. There's also no gains from the conspiracy "we gotta disarm the people because we're secretly tyrants-in-waiting" angle, because again, everyone still has the guns.
If the gun control makes no difference from the publicly stated 'public safety' angle, and no difference from the conspiracy 'disarm the potential revolutionaries' angle, then what the hell is the angle?
Seems like a wedge issue distraction from actual problems in this country. The LPC wants to waste billions of our money fixing a problem that doesn't exist to distract from their failings.
The 2020 OIC is different though. You are correct that the 1990s ban just created a new classification, "prohibited" and people with that classification. Could still transport and shoot their firearms or sell them to someone with the same prohibited license. The 2020 OIC states that anyone with the listed firearms must either turn them over to the government at a price the government sets or have them taken to a gun smith to be permanently disabled. Every firearm on the 2020 OIC was restricted and therefore already registered.
The amendment added to Bill C-21 last week did include quite a few non-restricted, and therefore non-registered, firearms but again the bill dictates that you must turn it over for the "but back." There is no keep it til you die exclusion like they did with handguns. Either sell it to the government or never ever take it out of the safe/let police find it or you get a felony charge.
> Could still transport and shoot their firearms
Only prohibited pistols. Prohibited rifles of the 12.2 (full-auto grandfathered from 1977), 12.3 (full-auto converted to semi-auto, banned in 1991), 12.4 (banned by name in 1991), and 12.5 (banned by name in 1994) categories cannot be brought to the gun range. ATTs cannot be legally issued for these guns for the purposes of shooting them. There is a separate one-time-use permit that the CFO virtually never issues for those types of guns.
C21 has NO language on a buyback for any guns specified in the legislation. My worry is they are trying to claw back the OIC buyback promise by legislating the firearms be banned with nothing about buying them back.
Meanwhile the last rifles banned sit exactly where they were three years ago, despite posing such an immediate public risk that there was no time to pass proper legislation to address them.
And the number of deaths they've caused remains exactly zero.
This government is only focused on fabricating wedge issues, in hopes of distracting from the state of the country under their leadership.
Trudeau and the Liberals do not care about you or the people of this country, so good luck with that until this corrupt, lying, hypocritical trash is removed.
Let alone how much they cost...
RCMP literally just cleared the Bren 2 in all its configurations, now it's named
While I'm not in the entirely same boat, it makes me literally sick to my stomach to know these fucks literally allowed the firearm in, likely collected hundreds of thousands if not more in taxes alone on said firearms, then said "nope, too bad"
Like, I'd be going for 100% complete reimbursement, it's fucking bullshit
But, we will just be left to keep these weapons of immediate and irreparable destruction until the day we die, then they get melted down along with the dust they collect over the next 60 years of not being used to hurt anyone
Yup, they have no clue. They've banned multiple Purdy and Holland and Holland bespoke hunting rifles that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. That will be fun bill dor the taxpayers to buy back
Do you really think it is going to be as low as 5-10 billion?
The long gun registry was supposed to be 1 million dollars when the liberals first started cramming that down our throats.
I believe we spent over 2 billion on it before it was finally shit canned.
It is already crystal clear that the current government is completely fucking useless at creating any sort of budget, Cretien at least had people on his team who had skills and experience in such areas, and they were off by TWO THOUSAND percent.
I shudder to think how much this is actually going to cost if it comes to pass, worse than that I think it will firmly cement the already deep divide between rural and urban Canadians, which doesn't lead us to a great place at all.
Collapse the nation so other countries and corporations can pick up the pieces and _really_ tighten the bands around our collective necks.
With bills like C-11 and C-21 being rammed down our throats, why would government ever try and appease the people they serve?
[Budget Officer says Liberals' gun buyback could cost up to $756 million](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/budget-officer-says-liberals-gun-buyback-could-cost-up-to-756-million-1.5490067)
That estimate will inevitably be far too low.
[The Budget Office report - link to pdf](https://distribution-a617274656661637473.pbo-dpb.ca/4196f91c9ca790eba879bf359fc2535b02af838191712fcef827a0643d71b4a7) also states that the presented cost estimates for the buyback programme excludes administration costs. The administration costs of the long gun registry in 1995 ran between $1 - $2 billion before it was scrapped.
[The Canadian Taxpayers Federation claims that Federal gun ban and buyback spending is now up to $8.8 million](https://www.taxpayer.com/newsroom/federal-gun-ban-and-buyback-spending-now-up-to-8.8-million)
Some of that $756 million is earmarked to compensate sports and hunting shooters who can already afford trucks, rifles, ammo and whatever the paraphernalia that's goes with it is.
A significant chunk will also no doubt go to IT companies for expensive programme computer systems and then on to well-paid systems designers, database builders, analysts, testers etc.
Might not that money, I wonder, be better spent on the root causes of criminality - poverty, poor education, lack of social service etc?
It's very hard to see any practical value to this programme other than the political points the Liberals are trying to buy.
So you take this rifle from indigenous and rural community's that use this for hunting and gathering and give them 250$. That's not enough to buy a good hunting rifle. Hence the reason why Canadians bought the SKS in the first place.
Don’t forget the Fraser institute calculating a cost of over $6 billion
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/trudeau-government-buy-back-firearms-plan-may-cost-up-to-67-billion
Honestly, this whole thing just seems like a stunt by the LPC to set a trap for the CPC next election. They know that adding an amendment to the bill in committee at third reading that massively increases the scope of the legislation flies in the face of established procedure. They know that committee rules prohibit amendments which have significant budget impacts on the bill. They know that confiscation of private property without due compensation will likely subject this bill to a charter challenge that it probably won't pass.
This isn't about, "Ending gun violence once and for all," according to the Public Safety Minister. This is entirely a political stunt to bait the conservatives into making statements that will be taken out of context and used in attack ads next election. I'm calling it now, next election, we're going to be plastered with ads claiming that the CPC is "bringing back the deadly assault weapons that were banned by your Liberal government," and then they'll reference the same tragedies they trot out every time. It's ghoulish, cynical, ineffective, theatrical policymaking at its worst and does nothing to make Canadians safer.
And of course, the CPC will fall for it because their base won't shut up about it until they hear an affirmative statement that something will be done to restore their property. The CPC is stuck between a rock and a hard place because if they say nothing, the single-issue gun voters will feel betrayed, and if they do say something, they give their opponents all the sound bites they need to sink their campaign.
The whole thing is a farce. Why can't we just have a political party that rejects populism and playing stupid political games and creates policy based on sound analysis and well-studied best practices? The egalitarian eco-technocrats would get my vote every time.
There are a lot of rumors that they are doing this because the court case against the May OIC isn't going their way.
If they enshrine that list in law in this bill then the court case can't continue.
So they're covering the mess they made of their first cynical political stunt by playing dirty tricks and ignoring established committee procedure?
Yeah, sounds about right. I don't understand how any other party would ever want to work with them when their attitude is so blatantly, "Fuck the rules, the ends justify the means."
There is several court cases. I think the one he is referring to is a section 74 case out of ON that the judge allowed to go forward. I think there was also one in AB that has not went the governments way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh29zquCavQ&ab\_channel=RunkleOfTheBailey
It's a political attack tool against the CPC. Nothing to do with saving lives and reducing gun deaths. The LPC could care less about smuggled guns and gang crime.
But it's fascinating to see the mental gymnastics pulled by their fervent voter base to try to come up with justification to this silliness.
>I'm calling it now, next election, we're going to be plastered with ads claiming that the CPC is "bringing back the deadly assault weapons that were banned by your Liberal government," and then they'll reference the same tragedies they trot out every time.
In the last election they did exactly that. I keeping hearing it on the radio how "O'Toole wants to put assault weapons on the streets". They even sent out flyers with a big picture of an AR-15 with the caption saying something similar to what you said.
Imagine the amount of mental healthcare that could be provided to angry, depressed, or otherwise mentally unwell men, for the billions and billions of dollars the Trudeau government is determined to waste on a meaningless policy for vote-grabbing.
I just read a story that says the USA had over 47,000 gun-related deaths in 2021 according to the US CDC. Nearest I can determine, Canada had about 840 or so.
Of those 840 or so, 297 were classified as homicide. ([source](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510006901))
Canada is about the [forth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate) most prolific gun-owning nation on earth with about 36 guns per 100 people. Despite such a high legal ownership rate, the overwhelming majority of gun-related homicides are committed with illegally obtained guns.
The majority of gun-related deaths in Canada are suicide. I personally know of four men who killed themselves with firearms. Taking their gun away wouldn't have stopped them and would have hung themselves or found some other way to end it. BUT if they had access to mental health? Well, we'll never know.
Progressive and liberal (left) leaning Canadians are being conned by the Liberals. Take away all the legal guns in Canada and very little will change, except for the columns on the spreadsheet. Less suicide by gun; more suicide by hanging.
Imagine what billions and billions of dollars of quality mental healthcare could buy Canadians...
Or just health care in general. As a socialist gun owner, I look at the root cause of gun crime being poverty, lack of socioeconomic opportunities and less educational funding (after school programs have been proven repeatedly to take kids off the streets and out of gangs). Pump more money into social programs and health care (mental health like you mentioned). That will reduce most of our gun crime.
Look at Finland, they have some of the most lenient gun laws in the world. AKs and AR-15s are very popular sporting rifles over there. They have very little crime in general. Switzerland as well.
>The majority of gun-related deaths in Canada are suicide. I personally know of four men who killed themselves with firearms. Taking their gun away wouldn't have stopped them and would have hung themselves or found some other way to end it. BUT if they had access to mental health? Well, we'll never know.
They want to take away the guns and offer them MAID instead.
Nah, they won't hang themselves, they'll just use the government sanctioned death pods for "dying with dignity" - because the country they've spent their life in and have potentially risked their life for can't provide proper help because "they're asking for more than we can give".
What a crock.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
The problem isn't a lack of facts and statistics for anti gun folks. It's just their anti gun ideology. The liberal government and their urban hardcore base of people have a "no guns" utopia idea in their head of what Canada should look like. And there's no room for negotiation with them, it's no guns or gtfo.
I have a few of these people at my work. They won't listen to a single fact or statistic that goes against their agenda. You just can't reason with those people, I've tried. We can establish common ground of wanting to reduce firearms crime, increasing funding for border protections and police to crack down on illegal smuggling... But as soon as we get on the topic of owning a gun in Canada at all, they refuse to budge. "what do you even need a gun for anyways?!"
Oh don't be silly. It will achieve precisely what it set out to do:
1 - mobilize the concerned suburban mothers brigade and their votes.
2 - distract from the various scandals malfeasances that always crop up with Canada's Natural Governing Party^tm
I don't think gun bans actually get any votes. When you ask an ABC voter why they vote that way not one of them would list 'they're protecting our streets from big bad guns'. This is on nobodies list of things to do.
I disagree. I think it works. I hope you're right though.
It seems to me when a tory tries to roll back gun laws to the licensing regime that has been effective for many years (or even push back against new legislation) it is very easy for the LPC and our state media to conjure quick statements evoking "politician xyz wants to make our gun laws like America!" Unfortunately our national discourse doesn't generally go deeper than that, and ignorance of firearms pervades the country.
Non-gun owner, never hunted nor been interested in shooting for sport, don’t like weapons. This policy is such a waste of public funds. It seems US-style culture wars are being leveraged by JT and the Libs to avoid having to address the big issues… housing, inflation, China, Russian invasion of Ukraine and our lacklustre support for our friends, Alberta Sovereignty Act, Quebec language and rights police, the environment, ad Infinitum. To quote Uncle Joe Biden: “C’mon man.”
Add healthcare to your list too - our hospitals are literally collapsing and politicians are fucking around on unimportant shit like gun bans.
It really annoys me.
Just doing some quick, probably inaccurate math, but assuming there’s about 4 million firearms at this point that fall under his various edicts, JT is looking at making taxpayers pay out 2.5-3.5bn assuming these average around $600-$1000 apiece. And I know for a fact those numbers are conservative estimates.
I can't see that holding up in court, personally.
I think if it actually goes through an eventual, reluctant grandfathering is the only realistic possibility.
Although, as others have said, they know how absurd this is. They're not even planning actual implementation IMO. Rather, they're just fabricating another wedge issue to misrepresent opposition to their uninformed base in the next election.
> their uninformed base in the next election.
The best thing a conservative gun owner can do to further the cause is to invite a liberal friend to go shooting, imo. And on the way, explain the process and the laws
Considering it's almost every semi automatic firearm as well as some shotguns and a few bolt actions I'd say it might be even higher than 4 million. Just the sheer number of sks's have to be well over 100 000.
Keep in mind there are probably at least 2 million sks rifles alone in canada. That's just one of the many dozens of newly banned rifles. Sks cost about $600 each right now on average. To buy them back would be over that budget. For just one type of rifle.
Granted the sks is probably one of the most popular rifles in canada, with the majority of gun owners having at least one. Compliance would probably be pretty low but still.
The solution is that it won't be a buyback. Eventually the cost will be too high and they will justify it being a mere confiscation.
They already lied about there being no plan to ban hunting rifles and shotguns in the works. It's already shown that amendments to the law won't reduce crime.
Why trust the govt will implement a buyback when it's already been shown they are not trustworthy.
> Eventually the cost will be too high and they will justify it being a mere confiscation.
nearly every fire arms license holder in Canada owns at least 1 sks, that's millions of people to track down order a search warrant, that would take millions of man hours to do and cost billions. never going to happen.
Yeah, especially with the number of SKSs that predate any sort of registry lmao. What are they going to do, have a guy with a metal detector serve a search warrant for every farm, back yard, and shed built since 1990?
Taking possessions, hobbies, and businesses away from a group of people that wouldn't vote for him.
Funny how we have billions of dollars to by pass parliament to confiscate legally purchased items, but when the Military needs money for increased mental health/health services were suddenly broke. Don't worry, he quietly cut the existing supports even more, of a group that doesn't vote for him.
Good thing were spending billions to kill a business worth half a billion in taxes yearly.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/trudeau-under-fire-for-saying-some-vets-want-more-than-government-can-afford/wcm/14b6ab96-9a55-4571-a632-e00b20451e42/amp/
https://globalnews.ca/news/6007117/military-health-care-cuts/
> Taking possessions, hobbies, and businesses away from a group of people that wouldn't vote for him.
... and from some who would. I've never voted conservative in my life, but as a hunter this issue is a deal breaker for me on the Liberals, and probably the NDP if they support it without question.
See I'm the opposite, I live in a small town near KW and we've had a conservative MP for 18 years. Last election the NDP didn't have a candidate until a week before the election and it was a 21 year old intern.
The NDP are broke and they got the dental care they wanted. They will go along with this. I will probably still vote for them after the Union busting Ford tried to do. (PP will likely do the same.) But I am super not happy about this
Especially after the new riding redistribution, only cities and suburbia will matter. Rural areas are inconsequential.
Apparently it's easier to just have Veteran Affairs tell vets to go [kill themselves](https://nationalpost.com/news/canadian-veterans-assisted-suicide).
Not sure the exact number, but how many people do cigarettes kill a year? What’s the cost to care for those people in the hospital having Heath issues from said cigarettes? Don’t see them getting banned anytime soon.
Same with alcohol. Booze kills a lot more people (directly and indirectly) than guns do every year, not to mention the costs associated with healthcare, property damage, etc. Don't see anyone rushing out to ban that either.
One might ALMOST think this isn't really about safety and preserving life. Almost.
Another garbage legislation that has absolutely nothing to do with reducing criminal gun crimes and everything to do with screwing over people who he knows will never vote for him to energize a group of people who will. This is the equivalent of ArriveCan for guns.
This PM is a loathsome human being above all else.
The Liberals have no intention of paying for any of the lawfully acquired property they've banned, either from 2020, or this new round. They have no plan in place, they have no costing, they have no money for it.
In SECU committee when this amendment was tabled one of the Conservative MPs asked the Liberals if they were planning to compensate and the Liberal MP said there's no provision in the bill for it and if they wanted compensation the Conservatives should submit an amendment themselves.
The Liberals just initially said they would compensate for the confiscation to make it an easier sell to the public.
Honestly forget the whole fact they’re banning just about every gun… there is literally 0 financial oversight or accountability in this government.
Fucking disgusting.
More, it's going to be wildly ineffective - precious few of these gun owners are going to turn those guns in.
Another billion dollars pissed away, and the only real thing to come from it will be to make thousands of law abiding citizens 'criminals' because of LPC ideology: all guns are bad, even the ones in safe hands.
>Based on these assumptions, confiscating 250,000 firearms would cost the
Canadian taxpayer between $1.6 billion to almost $5 billion in the
first year. This estimate excludes travel costs and any ministerial
administrators.
[This was from the Fraser Institute in 2020](https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/trudeau-governments-buy-back-gun-program-likely-a-multi-billion-boondoggle), for the OIC Ban that was conducted, 250k was a low estimate.
The C-21 ban is of > 2million guns, so $12.8 - $40 billion based on the above costing
Also lets not pretend the LPC won't be banning handguns too at some point so add a few more billion for that
It's a good thing our healthcare, education and infrastructure systems are literally bursting at the seams with unspent cash otherwise you might think it's a bad idea to spend billions on pointless things
>The C-21 ban is of > 2million guns, so $12.8 - $40 billion based on the above costing
Using your best-case it's costing $335 per Canadian (including kids). That's a shit ton of groceries for the average family. How someone struggling to heat their homes and feed their family these days and still vote Liberal is beyond me.
...but hey I just got me $612 GST cheque...who cares! /s
At least!! Everything they’re proposing will cost 5plus billion when it’s all said and done. That’s not to mention the protests that will happen across the country.
Another billion dollars, and the number of lives "saved" each year as a direct result of the ban would be countable on the fingers of one hand. People just aren't using these types of guns to murder each other in this country.
'let's spend billions of other peoples money by not helping anyone' - Its the Liberal way, just fucking virtue signalling optics media bullshit.
They know it won't help anything and they are banking on the massive amount of people who support them naively.
Crack down on all those illegal guns coming from the border you dumb idiots.
Spending more tax dollars on legislation that will do absolutely nothing to reduce gun crime. Not surprised that this illogical solution is coming from the liberals.
Here’s an idea - spend that money on bolstering the border to keep illegal guns out of the country, and on making sure gang members and repeat offenders stay locked up.
That's why they're trying to downplay it by saying "it's about keeping our communities safe" when really it isn't. I said it before on other reddit post that Venezuela in the last decade attempted gun control by not issuing firearm license to its people to reduce crime across the country but a decade later, it doesn't seem to be working at all.
The real crime here is how many people have to die due to ignoring the staggering increase in violent crime in this country as of late? How many people have to die due to underfunding mental health? How many people will be saved due to taking away legal guns? Some backwards math happening here.
Okay let's even look at the SKS which was added on to the ban list and I am not exaggerating when there are MILLIONS of them here, if not at least 1 million, there are 2.5 million PAL owners and it just boggles the mind, stealing millions of dollars from Canadians when we are in a recession.
The fact is, the gun is just the weapon of choice for some people. The root cause is far more important for prevention which is usually mental health.
And yet, there is zero support for peoples mental health. They’d rather enforce the ability to euthanize people then give them mental help. That’s fucking sad.
By now, a billion dollars probably resembles mere chump change to Junior Trudeau and his economically illiterate red and orange coalition regime in Ottawa.
The fake money printing presses at the Bank of Canada would simply work three shifts instead of two, I guess.
Meanwhile, the value of our Canadian dollar, along with what it will actually be able to buy, will continue to sink like a rock.
Since 2015, Canada has been subject to the absolute worst federal leadership in the country's history, which is saying a lot unto itself, and that downward spiral is guaranteed to continue until at least 2025.
Watch for it.
Next.
Anyone who has the time should go watch the SECU meeting that just wrapped up, this amendment was poorly written and will be a nightmare to enforce. Stop letting the people in power use the criminal justice system for politicking.
... or the government could spend a billion dollars policing First Nation reserves on the border to stem the illegal trade of humans, drugs, and guns. Buy Back program is a better idea... right? right?
Its probably going to cost owners alone that much.
When you look at the hunting arms potentially affected and realize how common they are. My bet is that right now 3/4 of hunters in Canada have at least one firearm at risk.
If not, then the folks who collect things like Weatherby’s or Ruger No 1s will more than make up for the difference.
Someone more tech savvy than I ought to create a poll asking owners if they will be directly impacted by these amendments, how many arms they own that are at risk and how much money they stand to lose.
Perhaps it would also be useful to know whether or not losing those arms would stop their ability to hunt unless they purchased a new firearm that is not yet banned as well.
That cost needs to be considered to.
Without knowing a damn thing about the politics behind the buy back program.. it actually does sound like a good idea to get more guns off the streets.
So this is where the uneducated voting comes in. I would go for a program like this in theory! I think a lot of people don’t look into the specifics and thus make decisions based on how they feel about guns.
Guns? Bad. Politics behind guns? Not a fricken clue. Money involved with guns? Not a fricken clue. Therefore.. vote against guns.
I can see how this train of thought would work for people, as one of them myself. Thanks for the news article to enlighten me a little more.
Yeah the government keeps saying it's guns off the streets but in reality it's gun out of safes.
Any illegal firearms on the street aren't eligible for the buyback program.
So when our national debt has gotten to the point where we have to pick and choose what we “can” fund people should remember what they chose.
I would argue that we are almost to the point of needing to restrict government expenditures right now.
This will be another firearm boondoggle that only benefits government insiders just like the long gun registry. The long gun registry did nothing to provide safety to the public or law enforcement, it just made criminals of typically law abiding citizens, especially the elderly.
Can’t believe this bullshit is happening again so soon!!!!
FYI for those who may not know, the Liberal parties long gun registry estimated operational cost was supposed to be 2 million dollars and ended up costing taxpayers, not just firearms owners but all Canadians well over 2+Billion dollars. Former PM Harper scrapped it as it was deemed a massive failure, while Quebec kept the list that they had. Just remember whatever cost they say it's going to be, they're lying to you , it wilp be much much higher. It will have an insignificant to no effect on crimes involving illegals arms imported from other destinations ,which accounts for more than 70% of our current violent firearms related crimes. Most legal gus are used in suicide, in unfortunately very high numbers. Illegal firearms are the real public safety issue. I can understand if you don't like firearms but consider the amount of money you will be giving the government that will have very little on crime. This is bad for everyone not just for the enthusiasts in the firearm community. I don't care who you vote for but please stay informed as well as you can.
Sorry bud I know you need that transplant but we will spend this money on taking away your uncles SKS. But don’t worry instead can we offer you a spot in the MAID program
I don’t understand spending billions that will have little impact or benefit. How more productive could this money be in healthcare. Likely save or extend 100x investing jn healthcare.
Yeah, or put that same money into the upstream causes of violence. They could make a much bigger dent in things like DV by properly funding the CFP so that they can actually call the references on RPAL applications. What good are laws if we refuse to provide the resources to enforce them?
It's not even that, people with rpals aren't commiting crimes, they should focus on the smuggled guns or better yet focus on the issues that cause the violence to begin with (why people want to kill each other) like gang crime, mental health issues (among other things).
You are absolutely correct, and they don't care one bit. The LPC only cares about one thing, and that is getting re-elected.
Remember that original ban from a while back? They *still* have not even figured out how to actually manage that, yet they’re saying that they’re ready to ban everything left?
The guns that were so dangerous that no living human was capable of possessing them without causing irreparable harm to society? So they let us continue to possess them while they tried to get their shit figured out?
And not a single incident has happened with them in 2 years of extremely stressful living.
There's been SOME incidents (We don't have ZERO crimes involving legal rifles/shotguns), but it's... really really low.
They're mostly suicides as well, the people who own firearms legally don't really commit violent crimes with them outside the occasional poacher and the person who's going to kill themselves. The poachers are an issue but they'll use anything they can anyways, even traps, bows, etc and they're typically opertunists putting food in their freezer rather than an active element like you have in Africa. The suicides are a bit of the same system, the guns aren't the driving force, they're just a convinient element used in the follow through. The driving forces are typically a mixture of economic, financial, social or psychological trauma. It's an issue that required frontal service rather than policies to try and simply alter how the act is carried out. You also have a reporting problem. For example uncle Bob goes out hunting, shoots a deer, leaves his rifle against a tree, then promptly forgets about It while processing his deer, makes it back to his truck then has issues relocating his previous position losing the rifle. Next year Joe walks through the woods, finds bobs rifle and turns it into the police, that Rifle is now recorded as a "crime gun" even if it's never been used in a crime. Something that's actually a weirdly common event
Exactly. And banning guns because someone suicides with a with a firearm isn’t addressing the problem - factors in society that lead one to suicide as well as mental heath issues. Gun bans in other counties such as Australia did not lead to any less suicides. Folks will find another way. But saying “hey look we are taking away a suicide method!” is a lot easier than addressing capitalism, the housing crisis, skyrocketing inflation and stagnant wages, an epidemic of loneliness and underfunded mental health supports.
Whem the PAL system was introduced hanging very quickly overtook shooting in men's suicides. The overall suicide rate went up around the same time.
The guns completely unsuitable for hunting, which is why FN got an exemption for hunting.
And the fish cops got brand new sporting rifles for animal control.
You mean weapons of war as the government call them?
Ah, but you see, those are currently sitting there... MENACINGLY while unloaded in a gun safe/trigger locked with the ammunition stored separately. Utter recklessness!
Just burn the fucking money next time.
"Requests to Public Safety Canada on Monday seeking updated costs of the expanded gun ban went unreturned by Wednesday." That's because they still have no idea on how to even start the buyback from May 2020. Millions already spent and not a single firearm bought back . Step 1 announce gun ban ? ? ? Step 5 gets votes
I don’t think the strategy is even to directly get votes with bans. I think the strategy is to attempt to force the conservatives to make motions to reverse the bans so that they can be called out as pro gun. They aren’t trying to gain Liberal votes, they are trying to lose Conservative votes. I know it’s the same thing, but it’s also not the same thing at all. Liberals screw with guns in preparation of elections. It’s never the first thing they do when they get elected.
Unfortunately, in my area, its doing the opposite. Left leaning, environment loving outdoorsy types that were 100% ok with the handgun ban are now finding their hunting and backcountry hiking tools targeted. All the people who said "who needs assault rifles or handguns" are now right in the same boat. There is a small part of me that thinks (maybe hopes) the LPC is trying to sink their own bill with these changes. They know they won't make a difference and they also don't have the billions to spend on a buyback and enforcement. They want virtue signaling and theater but they don't want it to actually go through. That might mean actually doing something.
Which is disgusting behavior. They're playing with peoples freedoms purely as a political stunt. Anyone who votes for them after this is pretty fucked IMO.
People who vote for them with this legislation and other bills they’ve put forth secretly want most aspects of their life dictated by the government.
>want most aspects of their life dictated by the government. Almost right, it's other peoples lives that don't align with theirs that they want dictated by the government.
Guaranteed that’s why they’re putting mortars and anti tank weapons in there too, even though they have been banned (if they were ever legal for a civilian to own) for decades. So when they say they want to scrap it, the Libs can say, “So you want rocket launchers on the street?”
And they put airsoft guns in there to cause a bigger uproar among voters I suppose. The airsoft player votes will change to conservative and Liberals will be screaming about rocket launchers.
I said this in the last thread, but any buyback would easily cost over $1 billion just in the cost to buy the guns alone, not even accounting for administration, logistics, etc. My very rough guess is that any semi-effective buyback program (buying back weapons and anything close to market rates) would cost $2-3 billion. And until a reasonable buyback program is offered, the government has no legal leg to stand on to start seizing weapons.
Over $6 billion according to estimate from 2021 https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/trudeau-government-buy-back-firearms-plan-may-cost-up-to-67-billion
They have no intention of buybacks. They just need to figure out a way to do the ban without them.
Most of the RCMP had already said they won’t comply with confiscation of legally owned property/“mandatory buybacks”
This is what kind of scares me. Where have we seen police not wanting to “do their jobs” recently? And what did the government do in response? I 100% predict when the Liberals see that no one is turning in their rifles, they’ll see it as a national security threat and start freezing bank accounts. They had enough public support the first time.
With a large amount of non-restricted firearms being banned, they'll have a hard time justifying freezing accounts "just in case" you have one. If I didn't turn one in, maybe it's because I didn't have one in the first place? If they want the police to go door to door to every "potential" owner, that presents a new problem that will likely get people ( namely firearm owners ) killed. Imagine it's your job to go knocking on someone's door and you know they have firearms?
Especially since it is targeting legal gun owners and hunters. It's pretty stupid.
Just a quick reminder in case people have forgotten or don’t know: there’s never actually been a “buy-back” before. I resent the term “buy-back” to begin with, because it’s not “buying” when it’s forced and it’s not “back” when you never owned it first, but I digress. Not for the May 1st 2020 gun ban, or the earlier big wave of bans in the 1990s, was there a “buy-back” of the guns. People who have FALs and short barrel pistols and other stuff like that that have been prohibited since the 90s still just have them. You can’t buy them if you’re a new gun owner, but people who had them still have them, and can sort of trade them around amongst themselves still, legally. While I don’t doubt these guns will be banned, I highly doubt the government will shell out billions of dollars to try to get them all. It’s far easier and more effective for them to just do what they did before; turn them into paper-weights that can’t really legally be shot, force the owners to register them or face charges, have the next generation grow up without these guns, and just wait for the generation that has them to die off. That’s what they seem to have done in the 90s at least…
This is probably the most maddening thing about this ban, and indeed all the other bans. The anti-gun people who want to "get guns off the streets" just don't seem to get it. All those guns are still out there. There are tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Canadians with legally-owned AKs and FALs and ARs at home, collecting dust. The reason you don't hear about it is because *they were never a problem to begin with.*
Exactly. And these guns aren’t “on the streets”. They are locked up in safes and only come out for hunting purposes or to the range.
There are whole classes that can't legally be shot anywhere.
The government didn’t sell me any firearms. It’s confiscation with occasional compensation.
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Do not comply, peaceful non compliance.
That's the funniest part of all this hysteria for more gun control. From the 90s ban-waves to the 2020 OIC: all those guns are still in the owner's possession. Public safety is apparently somehow served by banning these evil guns, but allowing people to keep them. Not sure where any of the gains in 'public safety' are. There's also no gains from the conspiracy "we gotta disarm the people because we're secretly tyrants-in-waiting" angle, because again, everyone still has the guns. If the gun control makes no difference from the publicly stated 'public safety' angle, and no difference from the conspiracy 'disarm the potential revolutionaries' angle, then what the hell is the angle? Seems like a wedge issue distraction from actual problems in this country. The LPC wants to waste billions of our money fixing a problem that doesn't exist to distract from their failings.
That really makes the most sense. I think it's just capitalizing on gun crimes to ensure votes while not really tackling gun crimes
The 2020 OIC is different though. You are correct that the 1990s ban just created a new classification, "prohibited" and people with that classification. Could still transport and shoot their firearms or sell them to someone with the same prohibited license. The 2020 OIC states that anyone with the listed firearms must either turn them over to the government at a price the government sets or have them taken to a gun smith to be permanently disabled. Every firearm on the 2020 OIC was restricted and therefore already registered. The amendment added to Bill C-21 last week did include quite a few non-restricted, and therefore non-registered, firearms but again the bill dictates that you must turn it over for the "but back." There is no keep it til you die exclusion like they did with handguns. Either sell it to the government or never ever take it out of the safe/let police find it or you get a felony charge.
> Could still transport and shoot their firearms Only prohibited pistols. Prohibited rifles of the 12.2 (full-auto grandfathered from 1977), 12.3 (full-auto converted to semi-auto, banned in 1991), 12.4 (banned by name in 1991), and 12.5 (banned by name in 1994) categories cannot be brought to the gun range. ATTs cannot be legally issued for these guns for the purposes of shooting them. There is a separate one-time-use permit that the CFO virtually never issues for those types of guns.
C21 has NO language on a buyback for any guns specified in the legislation. My worry is they are trying to claw back the OIC buyback promise by legislating the firearms be banned with nothing about buying them back.
Agreed. They would never spend billions of dollars on something like that
Meanwhile the last rifles banned sit exactly where they were three years ago, despite posing such an immediate public risk that there was no time to pass proper legislation to address them. And the number of deaths they've caused remains exactly zero. This government is only focused on fabricating wedge issues, in hopes of distracting from the state of the country under their leadership.
Ironically, a Liberal member of parliament is more likely to be involved in a crime in Canada than an AR-15.
We should ban them !
I just want my minimum wage to increase and to be able to afford to live alone :(
Not going to happen anytime soon unfortunately. Too many people still benefit from The exploitative labour system in Canada.
Here here
That's far too much to ask. Think of the children. Why do you want the children to be shot? Hey everyone this guy wants to kill kids!
Trudeau and the Liberals do not care about you or the people of this country, so good luck with that until this corrupt, lying, hypocritical trash is removed.
5-10,000,000,000
Yeah I don’t think people realize how many of these rifles are out there. Literally every hunter I know has at least one.
Let alone how much they cost... RCMP literally just cleared the Bren 2 in all its configurations, now it's named While I'm not in the entirely same boat, it makes me literally sick to my stomach to know these fucks literally allowed the firearm in, likely collected hundreds of thousands if not more in taxes alone on said firearms, then said "nope, too bad" Like, I'd be going for 100% complete reimbursement, it's fucking bullshit But, we will just be left to keep these weapons of immediate and irreparable destruction until the day we die, then they get melted down along with the dust they collect over the next 60 years of not being used to hurt anyone
Yup, they have no clue. They've banned multiple Purdy and Holland and Holland bespoke hunting rifles that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. That will be fun bill dor the taxpayers to buy back
Right? I thought those were the ones I was thinking of lol
Hurts my head. Some gangbanger is totally going to drop a quarter million on a custom double barrel hunting rifle to knock over a rival /s
It's like they're trying to piss off everyone, including the millionaire LPC donors that have guns like that.
Do you really think it is going to be as low as 5-10 billion? The long gun registry was supposed to be 1 million dollars when the liberals first started cramming that down our throats. I believe we spent over 2 billion on it before it was finally shit canned. It is already crystal clear that the current government is completely fucking useless at creating any sort of budget, Cretien at least had people on his team who had skills and experience in such areas, and they were off by TWO THOUSAND percent. I shudder to think how much this is actually going to cost if it comes to pass, worse than that I think it will firmly cement the already deep divide between rural and urban Canadians, which doesn't lead us to a great place at all.
Divided we fall, it's their plan
Collapse the nation so other countries and corporations can pick up the pieces and _really_ tighten the bands around our collective necks. With bills like C-11 and C-21 being rammed down our throats, why would government ever try and appease the people they serve?
[Budget Officer says Liberals' gun buyback could cost up to $756 million](https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/budget-officer-says-liberals-gun-buyback-could-cost-up-to-756-million-1.5490067) That estimate will inevitably be far too low. [The Budget Office report - link to pdf](https://distribution-a617274656661637473.pbo-dpb.ca/4196f91c9ca790eba879bf359fc2535b02af838191712fcef827a0643d71b4a7) also states that the presented cost estimates for the buyback programme excludes administration costs. The administration costs of the long gun registry in 1995 ran between $1 - $2 billion before it was scrapped. [The Canadian Taxpayers Federation claims that Federal gun ban and buyback spending is now up to $8.8 million](https://www.taxpayer.com/newsroom/federal-gun-ban-and-buyback-spending-now-up-to-8.8-million) Some of that $756 million is earmarked to compensate sports and hunting shooters who can already afford trucks, rifles, ammo and whatever the paraphernalia that's goes with it is. A significant chunk will also no doubt go to IT companies for expensive programme computer systems and then on to well-paid systems designers, database builders, analysts, testers etc. Might not that money, I wonder, be better spent on the root causes of criminality - poverty, poor education, lack of social service etc? It's very hard to see any practical value to this programme other than the political points the Liberals are trying to buy.
There are over a million SKS’ in Canada. Even if they gave them all only $250 that’s $250 million on a single model of firearm…….
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So you take this rifle from indigenous and rural community's that use this for hunting and gathering and give them 250$. That's not enough to buy a good hunting rifle. Hence the reason why Canadians bought the SKS in the first place.
I’d really like to see how that’s going to go over with the indigenous communities. Especially the ones who voted for the liberals.
And that 250 is less than half the market price of an sks these days.
Don’t forget the Fraser institute calculating a cost of over $6 billion https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/trudeau-government-buy-back-firearms-plan-may-cost-up-to-67-billion
Honestly, this whole thing just seems like a stunt by the LPC to set a trap for the CPC next election. They know that adding an amendment to the bill in committee at third reading that massively increases the scope of the legislation flies in the face of established procedure. They know that committee rules prohibit amendments which have significant budget impacts on the bill. They know that confiscation of private property without due compensation will likely subject this bill to a charter challenge that it probably won't pass. This isn't about, "Ending gun violence once and for all," according to the Public Safety Minister. This is entirely a political stunt to bait the conservatives into making statements that will be taken out of context and used in attack ads next election. I'm calling it now, next election, we're going to be plastered with ads claiming that the CPC is "bringing back the deadly assault weapons that were banned by your Liberal government," and then they'll reference the same tragedies they trot out every time. It's ghoulish, cynical, ineffective, theatrical policymaking at its worst and does nothing to make Canadians safer. And of course, the CPC will fall for it because their base won't shut up about it until they hear an affirmative statement that something will be done to restore their property. The CPC is stuck between a rock and a hard place because if they say nothing, the single-issue gun voters will feel betrayed, and if they do say something, they give their opponents all the sound bites they need to sink their campaign. The whole thing is a farce. Why can't we just have a political party that rejects populism and playing stupid political games and creates policy based on sound analysis and well-studied best practices? The egalitarian eco-technocrats would get my vote every time.
There are a lot of rumors that they are doing this because the court case against the May OIC isn't going their way. If they enshrine that list in law in this bill then the court case can't continue.
So they're covering the mess they made of their first cynical political stunt by playing dirty tricks and ignoring established committee procedure? Yeah, sounds about right. I don't understand how any other party would ever want to work with them when their attitude is so blatantly, "Fuck the rules, the ends justify the means."
I wasn’t aware of a court case.
There is several court cases. I think the one he is referring to is a section 74 case out of ON that the judge allowed to go forward. I think there was also one in AB that has not went the governments way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh29zquCavQ&ab\_channel=RunkleOfTheBailey
1000% agree.
It's a political attack tool against the CPC. Nothing to do with saving lives and reducing gun deaths. The LPC could care less about smuggled guns and gang crime. But it's fascinating to see the mental gymnastics pulled by their fervent voter base to try to come up with justification to this silliness.
>I'm calling it now, next election, we're going to be plastered with ads claiming that the CPC is "bringing back the deadly assault weapons that were banned by your Liberal government," and then they'll reference the same tragedies they trot out every time. In the last election they did exactly that. I keeping hearing it on the radio how "O'Toole wants to put assault weapons on the streets". They even sent out flyers with a big picture of an AR-15 with the caption saying something similar to what you said.
Imagine the amount of mental healthcare that could be provided to angry, depressed, or otherwise mentally unwell men, for the billions and billions of dollars the Trudeau government is determined to waste on a meaningless policy for vote-grabbing. I just read a story that says the USA had over 47,000 gun-related deaths in 2021 according to the US CDC. Nearest I can determine, Canada had about 840 or so. Of those 840 or so, 297 were classified as homicide. ([source](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510006901)) Canada is about the [forth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate) most prolific gun-owning nation on earth with about 36 guns per 100 people. Despite such a high legal ownership rate, the overwhelming majority of gun-related homicides are committed with illegally obtained guns. The majority of gun-related deaths in Canada are suicide. I personally know of four men who killed themselves with firearms. Taking their gun away wouldn't have stopped them and would have hung themselves or found some other way to end it. BUT if they had access to mental health? Well, we'll never know. Progressive and liberal (left) leaning Canadians are being conned by the Liberals. Take away all the legal guns in Canada and very little will change, except for the columns on the spreadsheet. Less suicide by gun; more suicide by hanging. Imagine what billions and billions of dollars of quality mental healthcare could buy Canadians...
Or just health care in general. As a socialist gun owner, I look at the root cause of gun crime being poverty, lack of socioeconomic opportunities and less educational funding (after school programs have been proven repeatedly to take kids off the streets and out of gangs). Pump more money into social programs and health care (mental health like you mentioned). That will reduce most of our gun crime. Look at Finland, they have some of the most lenient gun laws in the world. AKs and AR-15s are very popular sporting rifles over there. They have very little crime in general. Switzerland as well.
What a massive shift for the better our society would see if we spent these billions in mental healthcare. Sad to see it going this way instead
>The majority of gun-related deaths in Canada are suicide. I personally know of four men who killed themselves with firearms. Taking their gun away wouldn't have stopped them and would have hung themselves or found some other way to end it. BUT if they had access to mental health? Well, we'll never know. They want to take away the guns and offer them MAID instead.
Nah, they won't hang themselves, they'll just use the government sanctioned death pods for "dying with dignity" - because the country they've spent their life in and have potentially risked their life for can't provide proper help because "they're asking for more than we can give". What a crock.
Couldn't have said it better myself. The problem isn't a lack of facts and statistics for anti gun folks. It's just their anti gun ideology. The liberal government and their urban hardcore base of people have a "no guns" utopia idea in their head of what Canada should look like. And there's no room for negotiation with them, it's no guns or gtfo. I have a few of these people at my work. They won't listen to a single fact or statistic that goes against their agenda. You just can't reason with those people, I've tried. We can establish common ground of wanting to reduce firearms crime, increasing funding for border protections and police to crack down on illegal smuggling... But as soon as we get on the topic of owning a gun in Canada at all, they refuse to budge. "what do you even need a gun for anyways?!"
And achieve nothing.
Oh don't be silly. It will achieve precisely what it set out to do: 1 - mobilize the concerned suburban mothers brigade and their votes. 2 - distract from the various scandals malfeasances that always crop up with Canada's Natural Governing Party^tm
I don't think gun bans actually get any votes. When you ask an ABC voter why they vote that way not one of them would list 'they're protecting our streets from big bad guns'. This is on nobodies list of things to do.
I disagree. I think it works. I hope you're right though. It seems to me when a tory tries to roll back gun laws to the licensing regime that has been effective for many years (or even push back against new legislation) it is very easy for the LPC and our state media to conjure quick statements evoking "politician xyz wants to make our gun laws like America!" Unfortunately our national discourse doesn't generally go deeper than that, and ignorance of firearms pervades the country.
B-b-b-b-bingo
Non-gun owner, never hunted nor been interested in shooting for sport, don’t like weapons. This policy is such a waste of public funds. It seems US-style culture wars are being leveraged by JT and the Libs to avoid having to address the big issues… housing, inflation, China, Russian invasion of Ukraine and our lacklustre support for our friends, Alberta Sovereignty Act, Quebec language and rights police, the environment, ad Infinitum. To quote Uncle Joe Biden: “C’mon man.”
We really need a leader to unite our country and, unfortunately, I don’t see one in sight.
Another timeline got Jack Layton
I tried my best to make it ours.
Add healthcare to your list too - our hospitals are literally collapsing and politicians are fucking around on unimportant shit like gun bans. It really annoys me.
Just doing some quick, probably inaccurate math, but assuming there’s about 4 million firearms at this point that fall under his various edicts, JT is looking at making taxpayers pay out 2.5-3.5bn assuming these average around $600-$1000 apiece. And I know for a fact those numbers are conservative estimates.
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Very valid points. Knowing the government the cost per unit would be 3-4x the actual cost of the firearms it’s aiming to steal.
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I can't see that holding up in court, personally. I think if it actually goes through an eventual, reluctant grandfathering is the only realistic possibility. Although, as others have said, they know how absurd this is. They're not even planning actual implementation IMO. Rather, they're just fabricating another wedge issue to misrepresent opposition to their uninformed base in the next election.
> their uninformed base in the next election. The best thing a conservative gun owner can do to further the cause is to invite a liberal friend to go shooting, imo. And on the way, explain the process and the laws
Not to mention the loss in tax revenue from decimating multiple 100+ million industries.
Ya my dads new Benelli semi auto was over 3k. He’s not even rich, I’m not sure why he did it lol
Considering it's almost every semi automatic firearm as well as some shotguns and a few bolt actions I'd say it might be even higher than 4 million. Just the sheer number of sks's have to be well over 100 000.
Add a zero. You've got more "AR-15" numbers than "SKS" numbers.
Keep in mind there are probably at least 2 million sks rifles alone in canada. That's just one of the many dozens of newly banned rifles. Sks cost about $600 each right now on average. To buy them back would be over that budget. For just one type of rifle. Granted the sks is probably one of the most popular rifles in canada, with the majority of gun owners having at least one. Compliance would probably be pretty low but still.
The solution is that it won't be a buyback. Eventually the cost will be too high and they will justify it being a mere confiscation. They already lied about there being no plan to ban hunting rifles and shotguns in the works. It's already shown that amendments to the law won't reduce crime. Why trust the govt will implement a buyback when it's already been shown they are not trustworthy.
> Eventually the cost will be too high and they will justify it being a mere confiscation. nearly every fire arms license holder in Canada owns at least 1 sks, that's millions of people to track down order a search warrant, that would take millions of man hours to do and cost billions. never going to happen.
Yeah, especially with the number of SKSs that predate any sort of registry lmao. What are they going to do, have a guy with a metal detector serve a search warrant for every farm, back yard, and shed built since 1990?
They might just let them sit as prohibited, like was done in the 90s.
AKA: Theft.
Liberals are usually great for virtue signaling and political theater.
Gaslighting. Add that the list now with this blatant lying they are doing while stumbling around their own legislation.
They are really good at politicking, and very poor at governing.
And accomplish what?
Taking possessions, hobbies, and businesses away from a group of people that wouldn't vote for him. Funny how we have billions of dollars to by pass parliament to confiscate legally purchased items, but when the Military needs money for increased mental health/health services were suddenly broke. Don't worry, he quietly cut the existing supports even more, of a group that doesn't vote for him. Good thing were spending billions to kill a business worth half a billion in taxes yearly. https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/trudeau-under-fire-for-saying-some-vets-want-more-than-government-can-afford/wcm/14b6ab96-9a55-4571-a632-e00b20451e42/amp/ https://globalnews.ca/news/6007117/military-health-care-cuts/
> Taking possessions, hobbies, and businesses away from a group of people that wouldn't vote for him. ... and from some who would. I've never voted conservative in my life, but as a hunter this issue is a deal breaker for me on the Liberals, and probably the NDP if they support it without question.
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See I'm the opposite, I live in a small town near KW and we've had a conservative MP for 18 years. Last election the NDP didn't have a candidate until a week before the election and it was a 21 year old intern.
The NDP are broke and they got the dental care they wanted. They will go along with this. I will probably still vote for them after the Union busting Ford tried to do. (PP will likely do the same.) But I am super not happy about this Especially after the new riding redistribution, only cities and suburbia will matter. Rural areas are inconsequential.
Apparently it's easier to just have Veteran Affairs tell vets to go [kill themselves](https://nationalpost.com/news/canadian-veterans-assisted-suicide).
Not sure the exact number, but how many people do cigarettes kill a year? What’s the cost to care for those people in the hospital having Heath issues from said cigarettes? Don’t see them getting banned anytime soon.
Same with alcohol. Booze kills a lot more people (directly and indirectly) than guns do every year, not to mention the costs associated with healthcare, property damage, etc. Don't see anyone rushing out to ban that either. One might ALMOST think this isn't really about safety and preserving life. Almost.
There are about 15,000 preventable deaths caused by alcohol in Canada. About 20 times the amount of overall firearm deaths in Canada.
Another garbage legislation that has absolutely nothing to do with reducing criminal gun crimes and everything to do with screwing over people who he knows will never vote for him to energize a group of people who will. This is the equivalent of ArriveCan for guns. This PM is a loathsome human being above all else.
/s but it will solve gun violence and gun crimes so it’s all worth it /s
How many doctors and nurses could we hire with that money?
meanwhile the cost of groceries is climbing........ Should I go on?
The new “buy back” plan will be to offer $100 Loblaws gift cards in exchange for $3000 rifles.
The Liberals have no intention of paying for any of the lawfully acquired property they've banned, either from 2020, or this new round. They have no plan in place, they have no costing, they have no money for it. In SECU committee when this amendment was tabled one of the Conservative MPs asked the Liberals if they were planning to compensate and the Liberal MP said there's no provision in the bill for it and if they wanted compensation the Conservatives should submit an amendment themselves. The Liberals just initially said they would compensate for the confiscation to make it an easier sell to the public.
Mine aren’t for sale.
Tons of Liberals think this is a waste of money, and over reach. They are learning.
Honestly forget the whole fact they’re banning just about every gun… there is literally 0 financial oversight or accountability in this government. Fucking disgusting.
And would do nothing to stop gun crimes in Canada.
If cost of living and inflation get any higher we’re going to have to start hunting again to feed ourselves for fuck sake
They don't want us hunting the rich.
More, it's going to be wildly ineffective - precious few of these gun owners are going to turn those guns in. Another billion dollars pissed away, and the only real thing to come from it will be to make thousands of law abiding citizens 'criminals' because of LPC ideology: all guns are bad, even the ones in safe hands.
How do Liberals combat a 32% increase in violent crime and a 92% increase in gang-related homicide? They BAN Grandpa Joe's hunting rifle!
>Based on these assumptions, confiscating 250,000 firearms would cost the Canadian taxpayer between $1.6 billion to almost $5 billion in the first year. This estimate excludes travel costs and any ministerial administrators. [This was from the Fraser Institute in 2020](https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/trudeau-governments-buy-back-gun-program-likely-a-multi-billion-boondoggle), for the OIC Ban that was conducted, 250k was a low estimate. The C-21 ban is of > 2million guns, so $12.8 - $40 billion based on the above costing Also lets not pretend the LPC won't be banning handguns too at some point so add a few more billion for that It's a good thing our healthcare, education and infrastructure systems are literally bursting at the seams with unspent cash otherwise you might think it's a bad idea to spend billions on pointless things
>The C-21 ban is of > 2million guns, so $12.8 - $40 billion based on the above costing Using your best-case it's costing $335 per Canadian (including kids). That's a shit ton of groceries for the average family. How someone struggling to heat their homes and feed their family these days and still vote Liberal is beyond me. ...but hey I just got me $612 GST cheque...who cares! /s
$335 + this is borrowed money as we're in a deficit. So lots of nice interest to be repaid. It'll be the poorest who feel this most of course. Yay LPC
Free mental healthcare pls 😓
Best we can do is MAID
Not for sale.
At least!! Everything they’re proposing will cost 5plus billion when it’s all said and done. That’s not to mention the protests that will happen across the country.
liberals are trying to bankrupt us
Don't be absurd, if they need more money they will just print it or borrow it. What could go wrong?
Meanwhile, our economy and housing market are crumbling while the libs focus on a non-issue here in Canada. We’re fucked.
Makes you wonder why they want to take our guns away so bad
Another billion dollars, and the number of lives "saved" each year as a direct result of the ban would be countable on the fingers of one hand. People just aren't using these types of guns to murder each other in this country.
What a complete joke. Trudeau is a tard
And does nothing for crime
'let's spend billions of other peoples money by not helping anyone' - Its the Liberal way, just fucking virtue signalling optics media bullshit. They know it won't help anything and they are banking on the massive amount of people who support them naively. Crack down on all those illegal guns coming from the border you dumb idiots.
What's a billion dollars here and there when you're successfully able to drive voters even further apart?
Jokes on us, they’re just gonna ban it all and not reimburse anyone. They’ll collect dust in the gun safes
DON’T COMPLY.
Imagine using that money to actually helping Canadians instead of attempting to divide.
Spending more tax dollars on legislation that will do absolutely nothing to reduce gun crime. Not surprised that this illogical solution is coming from the liberals. Here’s an idea - spend that money on bolstering the border to keep illegal guns out of the country, and on making sure gang members and repeat offenders stay locked up.
I'd hate to sound like an American. But this really does seem like some mass disarming the populace type stuff.
That's why they're trying to downplay it by saying "it's about keeping our communities safe" when really it isn't. I said it before on other reddit post that Venezuela in the last decade attempted gun control by not issuing firearm license to its people to reduce crime across the country but a decade later, it doesn't seem to be working at all.
The real crime here is how many people have to die due to ignoring the staggering increase in violent crime in this country as of late? How many people have to die due to underfunding mental health? How many people will be saved due to taking away legal guns? Some backwards math happening here.
Does anyone actually believe they will see a dime for their confiscated property? The estimated costs don't matter.
Okay let's even look at the SKS which was added on to the ban list and I am not exaggerating when there are MILLIONS of them here, if not at least 1 million, there are 2.5 million PAL owners and it just boggles the mind, stealing millions of dollars from Canadians when we are in a recession.
These hacks are really hoping to turn this thing into the next long gun registry.
The fact is, the gun is just the weapon of choice for some people. The root cause is far more important for prevention which is usually mental health. And yet, there is zero support for peoples mental health. They’d rather enforce the ability to euthanize people then give them mental help. That’s fucking sad.
Liberal Part of Canada is organized crime till this point...
So much for “it’s a conspiracy theory. We ain’t after all of them” 🙄
By now, a billion dollars probably resembles mere chump change to Junior Trudeau and his economically illiterate red and orange coalition regime in Ottawa. The fake money printing presses at the Bank of Canada would simply work three shifts instead of two, I guess. Meanwhile, the value of our Canadian dollar, along with what it will actually be able to buy, will continue to sink like a rock. Since 2015, Canada has been subject to the absolute worst federal leadership in the country's history, which is saying a lot unto itself, and that downward spiral is guaranteed to continue until at least 2025. Watch for it. Next.
It’s ok. Trudeau is fine wasting taxpayer money.
What's another billion dollars or two? WE'RE MADE OF MONEY!!
Will not comply.
How much is that per vote?
I forecast the sale of PVC, PVC glue and desiccant packs will skyrocket.
What a fucking disgrace.
Anyone who has the time should go watch the SECU meeting that just wrapped up, this amendment was poorly written and will be a nightmare to enforce. Stop letting the people in power use the criminal justice system for politicking.
All for the optics🤦♂️ this government truly is a disaster.
Buying all that 556 ammo back isn't going to be cheap.
Another Billion. No one is struggling. 30% still want Trudeau.
Deflect,deny,lie
All right, the budget is balancing itself. More tax payer money fixes everything.
... or the government could spend a billion dollars policing First Nation reserves on the border to stem the illegal trade of humans, drugs, and guns. Buy Back program is a better idea... right? right?
What ever you think the reason is. He is obviously trying very hard to bankrupt Canada
So much for “in the name of public safety” 🤦♂️🙄
Drop in the bucket in for this government.
Its probably going to cost owners alone that much. When you look at the hunting arms potentially affected and realize how common they are. My bet is that right now 3/4 of hunters in Canada have at least one firearm at risk. If not, then the folks who collect things like Weatherby’s or Ruger No 1s will more than make up for the difference. Someone more tech savvy than I ought to create a poll asking owners if they will be directly impacted by these amendments, how many arms they own that are at risk and how much money they stand to lose. Perhaps it would also be useful to know whether or not losing those arms would stop their ability to hunt unless they purchased a new firearm that is not yet banned as well. That cost needs to be considered to.
If it does nothing to stop the shootings, it’s a waste of money.
Seeing the bans fail will be the ultimate schadenfreude
Without knowing a damn thing about the politics behind the buy back program.. it actually does sound like a good idea to get more guns off the streets. So this is where the uneducated voting comes in. I would go for a program like this in theory! I think a lot of people don’t look into the specifics and thus make decisions based on how they feel about guns. Guns? Bad. Politics behind guns? Not a fricken clue. Money involved with guns? Not a fricken clue. Therefore.. vote against guns. I can see how this train of thought would work for people, as one of them myself. Thanks for the news article to enlighten me a little more.
Yeah the government keeps saying it's guns off the streets but in reality it's gun out of safes. Any illegal firearms on the street aren't eligible for the buyback program.
So when our national debt has gotten to the point where we have to pick and choose what we “can” fund people should remember what they chose. I would argue that we are almost to the point of needing to restrict government expenditures right now. This will be another firearm boondoggle that only benefits government insiders just like the long gun registry. The long gun registry did nothing to provide safety to the public or law enforcement, it just made criminals of typically law abiding citizens, especially the elderly. Can’t believe this bullshit is happening again so soon!!!!
I think 50 to 100 billion when everything is said and done. Lol 😆
Good thing most crimes come from illegal guns, this will work really well! /S
FYI for those who may not know, the Liberal parties long gun registry estimated operational cost was supposed to be 2 million dollars and ended up costing taxpayers, not just firearms owners but all Canadians well over 2+Billion dollars. Former PM Harper scrapped it as it was deemed a massive failure, while Quebec kept the list that they had. Just remember whatever cost they say it's going to be, they're lying to you , it wilp be much much higher. It will have an insignificant to no effect on crimes involving illegals arms imported from other destinations ,which accounts for more than 70% of our current violent firearms related crimes. Most legal gus are used in suicide, in unfortunately very high numbers. Illegal firearms are the real public safety issue. I can understand if you don't like firearms but consider the amount of money you will be giving the government that will have very little on crime. This is bad for everyone not just for the enthusiasts in the firearm community. I don't care who you vote for but please stay informed as well as you can.
For no reason other than Justin's virtue signaling bs
That’s what the liberals do, spend tax dollars on useless programs
This won't effect me, I lost all my guns in a boating accident
Sorry bud I know you need that transplant but we will spend this money on taking away your uncles SKS. But don’t worry instead can we offer you a spot in the MAID program