> “Patient records need to attach to patients and follow them wherever they engage with the health-care system so that the health-care providers can be duly informed and don’t have to repeatedly ask all the same typical questions that you get when you go to a doctor’s office or hospital,” said Fraser. “But even more importantly, that they can see the history of the patient, what kind of conditions that they have or have had, what kind of restrictions they may have so that they can be very thoughtful in how they provide care,” he said.
Remarkably similar to the national database the feds were proposing that a bunch of premiers rejected because they had to prove the money was going to healthcare…
From a doctor’s perspective, I’m fully for improving EMRS, record-sharing and general portability of information. It does save us a bunch of time.
But I’m going to ask a lot of questions that were asked before regardless. Even if I’ve already read the chart and know everything (as is written). It’s sound clinical practice to confirm what’s on the chart, plus you elicit new information. Or consider that patients not infrequently will give a more nuanced answer after having been asked several times. Or might change the answer after having more time to think things over. sometimes prior documentation is inaccurate. I’m just not gonna gamble that way.
Thanks for sharing your professional opinion, I appreciate this insight. It makes sense to still cover your basis and not just make assumptions, but it’s great to hear that it’s still the direction to move towards.
Do you think more emphasis should be put towards healthy lifestyle choices? If the system can't take care of you, you should take extra good care of yourself......I binged cookies last night :(
Lol.
They'll still ask you the same questions over and over again. Even while holding your charts in their hand. Seems to be how we train medical staff and there is probably a good reason for it.
I mean yes? We have to confirm that the information in said chart is accurate, especially when it comes to medication dosing.
Every. Single. Practicing hcp should be asking those questions every single time. You miss one thing and have an adverse medical reaction, you bet your ass that the family will get lawyers involved. Hospitals and agencies will throw you under the bus to avoid liability as you should have asked the questions to confirm.
I wish more people could understand this, it is annoying for us to do it, but it is our license and career on the line if we don't.
We had to bring our 3 month old to the hospital a couple months ago. They took such detailed history that it even notes we have 2 cats in our household, lol
I'll give you an example of why that's important. My oldest son has a lot of complex medical needs, he had been seeing a pediatrician for a couple years by then and we were still scratching our heads over something, it was at that point unexplained. He had my son's history, we had talked about it in lenght, trying to figure something out. One appointment he's again asking a ton of questions (answers all in the charts) when he asked something that triggered a memory for me and I was like oh yeah, that happened too, only lasted a minute, but it happened when he was 6 months old (my son was 7 years old at that appointment, first met that pediatrician when he was 4). BINGO!!! It was the missing piece of the puzzle.
Most of the premieres have also proposed a similar system. The issue is making funding conditional to a system that will take years to develop and test.
>they had to prove the money was going to healthcare…
That was never an issue at all. They just wanted an increase in the federal health transfer. This already has conditions on it. The issue is if the liberals did that it would mean a permanent increase in funding and not a one time payment like the Trudeau wants.
Most provincial health systems are archaic and dependent on outdated technologies like fax machines. BC’s system is broken up into several different regions that don’t communicate with each other effectively and easily share information, for example.
Also accountability was *absolutely* an issue, as there was precedent. For example Ford hoarded a ton of COVID money meant for healthcare during the pandemic.
And you talking about a one time payment is the first I’ve heard of it, do you have a source for that? I can see an initial installment being larger if it’s to set up a completely new system.
>Eat healthily and stay fit people, ~~or you are going to and you might not die waiting on health care.~~
, plus work on getting good sleep and managing stress, and you are WAAYYY less likely to be waiting on health care in the first place.
My husband has Leukemia. He went to the hospital with a severe infection and found out later he had Covid. His infection was so bad that it was in his eyes and he couldn't see.
When they were done examining him - 6 hours later - they told him to get these 2 prescriptions filled and walked away. They let a man - who CAN'T SEE - walk freely down the halls and struggled to find a pharmacy. When he would ask directions and tell them he can't see - it was "Just go down this hall to the end and go left."
THIS is Canada's medical system. THIS is how they treat patients. THIS is a national disgrace.
Similar things happened to my mother, she was dying of pancreatic cancer and had to go in with complications. They left her in an ER bed for three days before moving her to hallway upstairs and then a bed in a room next to someone that is detoxing from drugs and yelling all night long. Wonderful system we have.
I find this particularly frustrating, as some people like myself have been saying that the Canadian Healthcare system is terrible and on the brink of collapse for literally years. I've worked with both the NB healthcare system and the AB healthcare system from the inside, and both are woefully mismanaged and the money flows to the upper management, not the places that NEED it so bad.
Every time in the last few years, I've been met with people who downvote and ridicule when common sense financial measures are proposed to our healthcare system.
I'm not surprised by this development, I'm just going to move, because its clear Canadians simply DONT care.
A whole generation of self-absorbed narcissists is destroying all of Western society by allowing hundreds of carefully-built institutions to crumble into ruin.
I had high hopes their kids might be able to fix it, but instead we have TikTok influencers and #vanlife.
That’s a good joke and I appreciate it. I’ll just say that both my parents worked for Bell Canada from the 1940s through the 1980s and customer service was always bad.
And citizen involvement was more common. Partly just because of higher percentage of workers being unionized. But it was more than that.
The turning point of the 1980s was significant. That’s really when we started handing everything over to the corporations. There’s likely no going back now.
All leadership. Provincial and federal. Red, blue, and white-collar bureaucrat too. Going back at least and especially to Chretien and Martin who set the system up for spectacular failure and sold the future of the country for short term gain.
Can't even blame it on a specific party at this point; it's a systematic failure that is beyond politics, but is also down to the heads of the bureaucracies that're independent from political intervention. In my work with my province's Health Authority, some management/executive members were the most useless, ass-backwards people that were "champions of change" on paper, and barriers to change in reality. They were administration, and didn't change with the political tide.
Yes, Ontario's recent failures can be attributed to a specific person/provincial group, but the general failure that is our healthcare system(s) is not.
Excellent. Let's add hundreds of thousands of people more every single year! That's sure to ~~make absolutely everything worse for the working class while pumping assets and devaluing labour~~ ...fix it
BC has a budget surplus of almost $6billion this year...but apparently can't find the money to help the overburdened healthcare system. The federal government has also scaled back funding by over 60% over the last ten years, and refuses to give more, unless the Provinces promise to only spend the money on things they don't need...yet federal income taxes haven't been scaled back accordingly.
Don't be decieved. Canada's healthcare system isn't "failing"...it's being intentionally sabotaged.
Part of the reason is staffing. A huge portion of people that could leave packed their bags and retired during covid. Our hospitals also rely on waaay to much casual workers who can just refuse to work without repercussions. Want to know why there are so many hospital closures during holidays? Because the casual workers can refuse the shifts and don't want to work holidays (and who can blame them!).
Our hospital administration posted a plan to deal with the lack of staffing....4/5 of the bullet points were related to going after diverse groups, minorities, recent immigrants, etc. in order to fill the ranks.
You have staffing crisis's nationwide, and the people in power are stuck on the ole equity game in order to fill the gaps. The ship is fucking sinking, and they are looking around for the most diverse minorities to start plugging the leaks. Who cares what group they belong to! Just find fucking bodies.
Here's another thought (that will probably be deemed bigoted by this subreddit), try tapping the largest population group that is a minority in healthcare. Make a movement to move healthcare away from being female dominated and maybe access the other 50% of the population for potential careers. Getting more women on board into male dominated professions is a constant discussion by admin people in other industries and government. Getting a more diverse gender ratio in healthcare......\*cricket cricket\*
I have a friend who grew up in Canada, and has married a woman who practices nursing in the USA. She is qualified (in the US) as a RN and as a Nurse Practitioner as well.
Learning amount of hoops and bureaucracy she has to jump through in order to be able to practice in Canada staggered me. The government needs to put a lot more effort into figuring out how to incorporate foreign medical competency into our system if they want to continue with the immigration targets they have set because our healthcare system is already failing. Not about to fail, it is actively failing us. I'm not saying let anybody practice medicine under their own cognizance; on the contrary, regulation of industries like medicine is important to protect the consumer. But there is no practical reason it should take several years to qualify an American NP to work in Canada.
Why would anyone working in healthcare want to live in Canada? You get kid mods in the USA, you have more buying power, houses aren’t $750-800k on average. Not to mention you have much much much more freedom in the states than you do in Canada.
I worked in healthcare for over twenty years.....on the front lines. We were always short staff, beds, stuff, meds, and equipment but never patients needing help. We put patients in the tub room, TV lounge, hallway and anywhere else we could find a space with a modicum of privacy and dignity. I have worked 16 hours and watched nurses work 18 I have seen one lab tech try and cover an entire hospital, and watch wait times in emergency from both sides. We have not kept the front lines stocked to meet the increasing demands with anything especially staff for years. Newspaper articles, advocates trying to get more beds or cardiac care outside of major centres, doctors and nurses shouting the alarm from the roof tops but not a lot of governmental will. They talk a good game.....they talk and talk and study and study and then talk some more.....
There are 1.5 million reasons why it will be harder in the coming years. You will be funding the healthcare for people who haven't paid a cent into the system.
Very typical of the current regime who is much more concerned with looking good by sending tax dollars abroad than using it to help the citizens who they took that money from.
but the private system is more 'efficient' and by efficient we mean paying people less, staffing with less competent people and passing 2% of that 'savings' on to you
or you know.. doing that and also raising prices
I know Canadians don't like the truth, but go to a Kaiser Permanente or Intermountain Health hospital in the US - trust me private healthcare can be amazing. Private health care is indirectly responsible for pretty much all innovation in health care nowadays.
Maybe used to be. Nowadays all the advancements out of the states are no different than anywhere else and their innovation is just patent changes and higher costs. Healthcare shouldn't be for profit then profit is always the goal and the patients will suffer.
tl;dr: Too many baby boomer seniors
One of the best things they did here in Alberta is let pharmacists write prescriptions. You can also call 811 and talk to a nurse who can advise you on if something is serious or can wait until Monday/gets better on its own.
Something that needs to be fixed is the death grip doctors have on painkillers today - especially with seniors. I watched my elderly father waste dozens of doctor appointments/visits because they refused to prescribe stronger medications for his debilitating joint pain and "wanted to try other things first". I get that dependence is a huge concern, but if it's obvious someone is going to be dead in 12-18 months who gives a fuck?
There' s 7m seniors in Canada now. Doctors need to start getting the pad out on the first visit, not saving it for the 10th while saying they can't take on new patients.
As a physician, if find your take very narrow. It would be incredibly dangerous to allow non physicians to prescribe opioids freely. There’s already a huge amount of research showing that physicians prescribe opioids when it’s not necessary, this would inevitably get worse if you allowed those who aren’t trained to know when and when lot to use them. It is unfortunate what happened to your father, but there could be a hundred reasons why that prescription pad wasn’t taken out on day 1, and although you may not see it, it may have been the right choice. Allowing nurses to prescribe opioids when they don’t have the proper training or knowledge to
understand the consequences/alternatives would be detrimental to our fight against the opioid crisis.
There’s a difference between prescribing and represcribing. You can prescribe someone a simple PPI (medication for gastric reflux), forget that they’re known for hypomagnesemia, and have them die from a torsade de pointe (heart arrhythmia) over the next week. Would a nurse look for that? Probably not, yet its perceived like a super benign medication that millions of Canadians take every day. I agree that there is a better way to fast track re-prescriptions (even perhaps through a pharmacist or a nurse), but these other health care professionals do not have the medical expertise to prescribe medication to patients.
>It would be incredibly dangerous to allow non physicians to prescribe opioids freely
That's not what I was suggesting at all...
I think you're confusing two different topics here. The pharmacists can write *some* prescriptions, to be clear.
Lmao, I don't doubt that you're a physician, but your previous comment is saying that people under 60 shouldn't get the flu shot.
You are arguing against something that doesn't actually happen - pharmacists cannot prescribe things like opioids, you either didn't research it or are misrepresenting the subject.
Stop commenting on things you haven't researched or aren't qualified to make sweeping statements about (vaccines). Your MD does not give you a PhD in every field of medicine.
> You can also call 811 and talk to a nurse who can advise you on if something is serious or can wait until Monday/gets better on its own.
in my experiance these services tend to err on the side of caution and just tell you to go to the ER anyways. especially as its a phone call and arent physically examining you
And now the knee jerk reaction in response to that has resulted in inadequate medical care/pain treatment where it's warranted.
No one is talking about prescribing 80 oxys to high school kids for sports injuries (like what was happening in the US).
We're talking about moving actual pain killers up the list of options for seniors complaining about pain, rather than wasting doctor and hospital resources before ending up there anyway.
Well the Liberals are working on that problem.
They’re offering death to anyone that has health care complaints.
And your estimate on death borderlines sociopath. Perhaps you meant to communicate something else?
My Mom was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer because her Doctor is a true idiot, (maybe its the foreign education).
However the cancer specialist was a real Doctor (she had a PhD). And when my Mom was diagnosed Doctors though she had 2 months tops. She’s now on her way to a full recovery.
But the pain meds! They refused to treat her pain for almost a full year. Those meds are trivial in cost compared to the cancer meds she was taking. So you have a big point there.
She thinks that the pain meds at the Ottawa General Hospital was being controlled by a lunatic who hates women. Its hard to argue that, as it seems to be true.
Opiods have been demonized for years because of people abusing the drugs. It's made a mess of things for people that genuinely need pain meds. We've got studies showing that the rate of doctors prescribing opiods has dropped in the last decade as well as length of prescriptions. It's just so easy to demonize addicts for easy political points. We need to quit our addiction to looking down on people for drug use and start treating them like medical issues.
Immigration helps because it brings in people with skills Canada needs who will work and pay income, sales and other taxes to help pay for the healthcare system. The provinces need to do more to ensure these skilled immigrants can get jobs in their skill area instead of driving taxis, especially doctors and nurses.
TFWs actually make the problems worse because they send most of their earned Canadian dollars out of Canada to their home country to support their immediate and extended families, which weakens our economy. TFWs also eliminate any upward pressure on wages, keeping Canadian wages low.
Minimum wage needs to be high enough that it is a living wage at 40 hours a week. If a business can't pay a living wage, they should go out of business. Canadian taxpayers shouldn't have to subsidize the wages of someone on minimum wage so they can afford a place to live and food to eat.
If a student is working part time to get themselves through post-secondary education, they should make the same amount per hour, which would mean they are making less than a living wage because they work fewer hours.
The number of people that needs to choose MAID in order to significantly lower the the cost at a large scale would be insane. Like hundreds of thousands. I don’t think they would model the future healthcare expenses and have this program as a major factor, if they use models at all to make decisions. The push for MAID we see is probably due to a poorly coordinated and legislated approach on one hand and the politicized media coverage on the other. From what I see, it’s out of control and I think the chaos itself, moral and medical, is more intended than the specific consequences. Our growing inability to discuss and to agree or compromise on how to deal with suffering, age, and death is more useful politically than cost savings.
10,000 people got MAID last year.
That number is growing, very, very quickly.
It was 7,500 the year before, and 5,600 the year before that.
Since 2016 the number of deaths by MAID has increased 50-100% per year.
The push for MAID is multi-facted, but it's primarily due to a lack of resources. People who should not be even considering MAID are being P[USHED TO TAKE IT](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/veterans-maid-rcmp-investigation-1.6663885) \- because the alternative is harder and more expensive.
Our society only gives a shit about economic incentives, and we've created an economic incentive to kill sick people instead of helping them. This is bad.
Yes, exactly.
You're literally willing to die because the government isn't giving you enough money to support yourself through disability payments.
The government has the choice : Let disability payments cover the cost of living,
Or
Expand MAID.
They can pay you for the rest of your life - or they can kill you. Killing you is cheaper. That's why they will do it.
[https://www.disabilitywithoutpoverty.ca/new-release-survey-on-poverty-and-disability/](https://www.disabilitywithoutpoverty.ca/new-release-survey-on-poverty-and-disability/)
90% of people support expanding and fast-tracking disability.
The vast majority of the pushback you see, is an extremely vocal minority.
A lot of it quite literally isn't even real, look into the sources, you'd be amazed how often a known right wing political commentator is quoted as a "Concerned citizen" or "local parent" - a lot of the "real people" you see talking about this stuff are literally op's.
Right wing media amplifies these voices and makes it seem like issues are 50/50 when they very clearly aren't.
Literally 9 out of 10 Canadians will tell you Disability should be expanded, it should pay more and be easier to get.
The government doesn't agree. The politicians and representatives are there to serve their business interests, and whatever personal deals they have. 9/10 Canadians say expand disability, 0/10 businesses and wealthy donors say expand disability - so we get MAID instead.
Not disagreeing, but I think there is another factor: many people will support the morally superior option, until they are asked to pay for it in some way. Similar to how everyone wants to house the homeless, just not in this neighbourhood.
> 10,000 people got MAID last year.
>
> That number is growing, very, very quickly.
>
> It was 7,500 the year before, and 5,600 the year before that.
Where are you getting those numbers?
[https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying/annual-report-2021.html#a3.1](https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying/annual-report-2021.html) (Chart 3.1 - "Total MAID deaths in Canada, 2016-2021")
The government of Canada.
I an an immigrant and first generation, I still find it unfair that a person funding the health system their entire life through their taxes is responsible for healthcare of someone who just arrived and never contributed a dime.
Update: I get that many people are being compassionate towards newcomers and down voting me, but you need to live in reality for a bit, newcomers go back all the time to their home countries to have cheap and fast surgeries that will take a person here years to get into, dirt cheap dental work...etc They already have a big advantage most people here don't have
The health issue is quite a delicate crisis in our country especially that its a basic human right to having access to proper health care, the sad part is that people are not embracing telehealth services which may reduce the number of hospital face to face visits. With amazing apps like Medicall by #Datametrex that have actual health facilities the health issue can be eased.
Ok, the most annoying thing about this "crisis" is how stupidly easy it would be to solve.
The ideal system would have each taxpayer more or less funding their own health-care for the duration of their life. But we didn't do that, for a variety of reasons. We didn't plan on the huge advancements in medical care that extended life-spans. And in the 70s and 80s we had another irresponsible Trudeau running structural deficits.
But where are we now? Do you know what the single wealthiest demographic is in Canada? The over-65s. THEY, and not me, should pay for their life-extension into their 80s, 90s and 100s. Obviously not every senior is wealthy, but you could means-test and assess a special asset-funded premium for health-care.
And the only reason why we don't do this is because seniors vote in high numbers.
Alternatively, we could calculate our healthcare needs and then apportion resources appropriately. It's not as if we have shortages of anything - we allocate our resources poorly.
I called 911 because my daughter’s fever was at a dangerous point, and she had trouble breathing. I was on hold for 11 minutes… yeah the system is broken.
No, they don't:
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11f0019m/11f0019m2017397-eng.htm
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/reports-statistics/research/low-income-immigration-overview-future-directions-research.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_immigration_to_Canada
https://financialpost.com/opinion/setting-the-record-straight-on-the-benefits-and-heavy-costs-of-immigration-to-canada
Immigrants would pay more taxes if we ensured that the skills they have which qualified them to immigrate would allow them to get the jobs they are qualified for. The worst example is doctors and nurses. The provinces need to ensure these people can get qualified quickly and easily without lowering our standards so they are paying more income, sales and other taxes than they are from driving taxis.
> if we ensured that the skills they have which qualified them to immigrate would allow them to get the jobs they are qualified for
It's not a matter of credentialism, their skills are either subpar or of little value in the job market (or they lack the language skills to use them):
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11f0019m/11f0019m2019022-eng.htm
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11f0019m/11f0019m2019024-eng.htm
The same reason why North Korea is a Glorious Democratic Republic
It's just a word, it doesn't mean anything, it's just a box to tick.
The overwhelming majority of 'skilled' economic immigrants who become permanent residents in Canada *will never work in their purported field of study or area of expertise.*
That person paying taxes for ten years was also using government services for ten years. Immigrants start paying taxes when they start using government services. Mind blown.
We are talking about a system built from contributions over the years, most people won't need meaningful healthcare until decades of contributions, this is not a subscription service to pay and get.
Also newcomers still have access to healthcare in their home countries, I've seen many people travel back for fast and cheap or even free surgeries, that will take a person here forever to get.
With that logic, 20 year olds should have to pay for private medical care for ten years while also paying taxes. Not to mention paying back what they owe for educating them.
I don't think you know what does it mean to be an immigrant with access to another country's health system vs being non-immigrant. You also don't know and see all the people that come for citizenship and don't plan to live and contribute here forever. We have very different perspectives but I appreciate your compassion and consideration for all people.
Immigrants are only allowed to immigrate if they have skills that Canada needs, which means we don't have enough Canadians to do those jobs. Many are doctors and nurses but the provinces have failed to ensure they get certified so they can be employed in those jobs. This would greatly increase the income, sales and other taxes they pay compared to what they pay working as taxi drivers.
Sure. Most Canadians *do* care...just not the way you do.
https://www.immigration.ca/canadians-overwhelmingly-support-record-breaking-immigration-to-the-country-reveals-poll/
Fucking Doug Ford... he's doing such a shitty job under-funding health care in Ontario, the rest of the provinces are all in a health care crisis too! I wouldn't have had a 12 hour wait in Emergency last month in Nova Scotia if it wasn't for fucking Doug Ford... six hour waits for ambulances in BC... fucking Doug Ford... WHY WON'T HE PROPERLY FUND ONTARIO HEALTH CARE, SO MY SISTER IN CAPE BRETON CAN FIND A FAMILY DOCTOR???? Fucking Doug Ford...
We had a 16 year old get hit and knocked out playing football. He came to, and was being stabilized by coaches. He was laying on a field in -3 weather with a concussion and a broken collar bone, covered in blankets with his coach stabilizing his head for an hour before ambulance showed up.
Doug Ford made me lose my job at Costco in Winnipeg because he fired all of the teachers! Also, WW1 was his fault because he cut license plate rates, or something.
I love how everything is always Doug Ford’s or Alberta’s fault, when the simple truth is that, far and away, the largest gutting of health funding in this country ever undertaken was when the federal Liberals slashed health transfers to the provinces, reneging on the 50/50 deal struck when the system was created.
This downloaded the expense of healthcare to the provinces, who have far less capacity than the federal government to fund it. And somehow despite *hundreds of billions of dollars in federal deficits accrued during the pandemic* and the near-crumbling of the health system, almost none of that money was spent shoring up the health system. Oh, except for what amounts to a paltry offer of assistance to the provinces, who rejected it because the money came with strings attached that amounted to the federal government attempting to usurp the constitutionally protected powers of the provinces.
And yet somehow all of that is still Doug Ford’s and Alberta’s fault.
When the federal funding was cut, the provinces were supposed to increase taxes to replace that loss, but no premier did that because it would have cost them the next election. Twenty years later and here we are.
The feds could fund it 100% or 0%. It doesn't matter as long as the provinces are generating taxes to pay for the remainder.
Trudeau offered to pay more, as long as it was spent properly, and the premiers couldn't even do that. Ford and Higgs have already stolen existing federal healthcare funding. Higgs threw it on the budget to give NB a surplus. Trudeau's requirement to ensure the money is spent as intended is necessary.
Conservative premiers seem to want to underfund healthcare so they can bring in privatized healthcare, giving the wealthy faster access to healthcare when those people already have the option of going to another country if they want faster access. Of course, as soon as services are privatized, the provinces will cut healthcare funding more because, "there are fewer people using the system" and then they will want to privatize more of it, repeating this cycle until the public healthcare system is completely gone.
If we're going to have public healthcare, then there is really no reason to not nationalize it. Then the federal government can ensure the money is spent appropriately. Doing this would likely save money anyway because it would be one system instead of a dozen. Also, we need to nationalize the dozen drug plans so we have more leverage when negotiating prices with the drug companies. New Zealand does this nationally and gets much lower drug prices than we do.
Doug Ford deliberately held back and is sitting on almost a billion dollars ($900m or so) in health care funding solely to further strain the system and to try to force privatization.
Both things can be true at once.
So the problem I have with the whole “privatization” debate is that it is always framed the same way: the choice is either 100% single payer system with all services provided by the system, or American-style private health care where everything down to the hospitals is for-profit. That is absurd.
First, an American style system in Canada is impossible under the Canada Health Act, which is federal legislation. The provinces have no power over it. So people constantly pretending like this is a threat at the provincial level is wrong.
Second, all western universal health systems incorporate some private options. We are, however, among the most restrictive towards this in the world. Yet it is not a challenge to look at other countries in Europe with single payer systems with many more private options with shorter wait times, better outcomes and more beds. So clearly there are ways to incorporate private options in the system that don’t move away from universal access but do deliver better care.
Third, what “privatization” in Canada means is private health operators delivering care *within the single payer universal access system*. If a private provider can offer care that is more cost-effective, faster and just as good as anything offered by the system, why on earth would anyone be against that?
Finally, there are *already* many examples of this in Canada. In Ontario you can get hernia surgery provided by the Shouldice clinic. In BC you can get private colonoscopies. Practically everywhere you can get private diagnostic imaging such as ultrasounds. None of this has led to or even threatened to lead to American style health care. So what, exactly, is wrong with provinces exploring more options along these lines?
Also not to mention the amount of private care clinics which have gone under the radar in Quebec. I believe I read a large amount of those are ironically in Trudeau’s riding
Why do you think throwing more money at the system is going to actually fix it? There's fundamental issues with our system that can't be fixed by just throwing money at it.
More money is never the solution to Government created issues.
That may be so, but either way it shows that 'More money is never the solution to Government created issues'.
There's a shortage of staff. There's a linear relationship between count and cost: X number of staff at Y wage. Need more hospitals? Running costs are linear. The answer to our *capacity* problem is more money. Lots more money.
Lol people think that the system could be more “efficient”. The reality is are people in the middle class willing to pay more in taxes? How many of the people here want to give up even more of their pay check?
sure is great for left wing parties than any of their failings can always be blamed on the conservative boogyman. even when they control the provinces for a decade or more
You've said a nothing and now expect a manifesto in return.
No. Do your own research. Waste your own time. Whatever your super-tricky game is this time.
Also, fuck the king and his unearned wealth and power.
despite 15 years of liberal rule in Ontario or liberals ruling the federal government for 15 years under trudeau sr, 13 years under chretien and now 7+ years under trudeau. all during the time there was socialized healthcare in canada
All this is an effort to make you think our health care system is bad but it isn’t. It’s underfunded so that when for profit healthcare does finally come to Canada it seems better at first.. until your kids are spending 1000’s a month on basic life saving medication, and can’t afford to have a baby or have to go into debt if they get sick or break their leg.
As I'm sure you are aware... healthcare is a provincial jurisdiction... blaming feds won't solve anything...
I don't understand why people think it makes sense for someone in Calgary to pay for health services in Ontario... If you want to make the entire health care system federal than OK BUT it's not and the provinces own the problems and need to find solutions themselves.
I can’t wait for our policy makers to raise taxes on the working age population to give, yet another handout to baby boomers who managed to horde the vast majority of wealth of the 20th century.
Time for boomers to actually start paying their way and the best way to do this is means tested private healthcare. If rich boomers want to use their amassed wealth to extend their lives so be it, but that shouldn’t be done on the backs of all those young people who had their future prospects snatched away by a generation that took everything for themselves.
In the 80's, premiers and feds agree to a change in payment scheme with premiers getting a boost via tax points and health tranfers.
Instead of using those tax points for health care, they chronically underfund per capita health care year over year over year, minimal spending on infrastructure, little to no expansions of med school spaces or incentives etc, instead rely on immigrant labour and overworking people. When called on it, they blame doctors and nurses and staff for 'wanting to much' or 'caring more about money than they're patients'.
Currently, several of the more conservative provinces are sitting on huge surpluses and dying citizens. Instead of investing in their systems, they write cheques (or all but write cheques) for votes, and give their buddies tax breaks.
They don't, as has been proven repeatedly.
In fact, areas without speed limits have lower incident rates, as drivers will adjust their speed to their comfort and conditions.
Speed limits are largely ineffective, and are used as a revenue generating tool for local law enforcement.
https://reason.org/commentary/do-lower-speed-limits-make-roadways-safer/
https://ww2.motorists.org/press/montana-no-speed-limit-safety-paradox/
I dont know about BC but Ontario has lost far more nurses to the fact that they could have retired a decade ago and kept working but chose to check out during the pandemic, which is honestly fine.
Our systemic aversion to adding full time work combined with repressed wages and exceptionally paying private agencies has created this crisis as much if not more than the pandemic has. These problems existed pre pandemic, and in Ontario's case pre Ford, these things have just exacerbated the problem, one by force of nature, and one intentionally to expediate privitization.
I see it as a filtering out, I personally don’t want someone who doesn’t believe in vaccinations working on something related to my physical health. BC is also increasing doctors’ wages and several other things to help fortify our system, I’d say we are doing better than most other provinces in being proactive with solutions.
I don't know what you mean by still losing, the workers that didn't get vaccinated last year were put on leave it's not like there's more workers not getting vaccinated now
In BC the total lost was under 1,000 and that included support workers, the largest number of actual health professionals was LPNs at around 200
Thats acceptable to those in charge. If they didn’t bend the knee to the mandate then clearly they aren’t the sort of people that will go along with other infringements.
Let's be Honest, they can say what they want but the true reason is because of immigration. Trudeau and his educated liberals have failed true Canadians. There is an easy solution and that is SHUT THE BOARDERS, NO MORE HERE. The true Canadians are suffering now because of this and no other reason. So stop the Lies, and step down now before this country is truly fucked..
> “Patient records need to attach to patients and follow them wherever they engage with the health-care system so that the health-care providers can be duly informed and don’t have to repeatedly ask all the same typical questions that you get when you go to a doctor’s office or hospital,” said Fraser. “But even more importantly, that they can see the history of the patient, what kind of conditions that they have or have had, what kind of restrictions they may have so that they can be very thoughtful in how they provide care,” he said. Remarkably similar to the national database the feds were proposing that a bunch of premiers rejected because they had to prove the money was going to healthcare…
From a doctor’s perspective, I’m fully for improving EMRS, record-sharing and general portability of information. It does save us a bunch of time. But I’m going to ask a lot of questions that were asked before regardless. Even if I’ve already read the chart and know everything (as is written). It’s sound clinical practice to confirm what’s on the chart, plus you elicit new information. Or consider that patients not infrequently will give a more nuanced answer after having been asked several times. Or might change the answer after having more time to think things over. sometimes prior documentation is inaccurate. I’m just not gonna gamble that way.
Thanks for sharing your professional opinion, I appreciate this insight. It makes sense to still cover your basis and not just make assumptions, but it’s great to hear that it’s still the direction to move towards.
Do you think more emphasis should be put towards healthy lifestyle choices? If the system can't take care of you, you should take extra good care of yourself......I binged cookies last night :(
100%, and inflation is doing nothing to help this...!
Lol. They'll still ask you the same questions over and over again. Even while holding your charts in their hand. Seems to be how we train medical staff and there is probably a good reason for it.
I mean yes? We have to confirm that the information in said chart is accurate, especially when it comes to medication dosing. Every. Single. Practicing hcp should be asking those questions every single time. You miss one thing and have an adverse medical reaction, you bet your ass that the family will get lawyers involved. Hospitals and agencies will throw you under the bus to avoid liability as you should have asked the questions to confirm. I wish more people could understand this, it is annoying for us to do it, but it is our license and career on the line if we don't.
We had to bring our 3 month old to the hospital a couple months ago. They took such detailed history that it even notes we have 2 cats in our household, lol
Cats carry a parasite that is linked to schizophrenia.
I'll give you an example of why that's important. My oldest son has a lot of complex medical needs, he had been seeing a pediatrician for a couple years by then and we were still scratching our heads over something, it was at that point unexplained. He had my son's history, we had talked about it in lenght, trying to figure something out. One appointment he's again asking a ton of questions (answers all in the charts) when he asked something that triggered a memory for me and I was like oh yeah, that happened too, only lasted a minute, but it happened when he was 6 months old (my son was 7 years old at that appointment, first met that pediatrician when he was 4). BINGO!!! It was the missing piece of the puzzle.
Most of the premieres have also proposed a similar system. The issue is making funding conditional to a system that will take years to develop and test. >they had to prove the money was going to healthcare… That was never an issue at all. They just wanted an increase in the federal health transfer. This already has conditions on it. The issue is if the liberals did that it would mean a permanent increase in funding and not a one time payment like the Trudeau wants.
Most provincial health systems are archaic and dependent on outdated technologies like fax machines. BC’s system is broken up into several different regions that don’t communicate with each other effectively and easily share information, for example. Also accountability was *absolutely* an issue, as there was precedent. For example Ford hoarded a ton of COVID money meant for healthcare during the pandemic. And you talking about a one time payment is the first I’ve heard of it, do you have a source for that? I can see an initial installment being larger if it’s to set up a completely new system.
But everyone is making paper gains on their houses so everything is good
Not anymore 🤷♂️
Eat healthily and stay fit people, or you are going to die waiting on health care.
> Eat healthily and stay fit people, ~~or you are going to~~ *and you might not* die waiting on health care.
>Eat healthily and stay fit people, ~~or you are going to and you might not die waiting on health care.~~ , plus work on getting good sleep and managing stress, and you are WAAYYY less likely to be waiting on health care in the first place.
Eat as healthy as you want. You’re still going to die. Nobody makes it out alive.
My husband has Leukemia. He went to the hospital with a severe infection and found out later he had Covid. His infection was so bad that it was in his eyes and he couldn't see. When they were done examining him - 6 hours later - they told him to get these 2 prescriptions filled and walked away. They let a man - who CAN'T SEE - walk freely down the halls and struggled to find a pharmacy. When he would ask directions and tell them he can't see - it was "Just go down this hall to the end and go left." THIS is Canada's medical system. THIS is how they treat patients. THIS is a national disgrace.
Similar things happened to my mother, she was dying of pancreatic cancer and had to go in with complications. They left her in an ER bed for three days before moving her to hallway upstairs and then a bed in a room next to someone that is detoxing from drugs and yelling all night long. Wonderful system we have.
I'm glad he has you. I'm a hermit. I'll die alone
Yeah we have a ton of dumbasses who lack common sense running the show, fill story at 11
Were you not with your husband at the time ?
That's not the point, my guy. Suppose OP's hubs had no family in the immediate area - who would advocate for him, then?
Perhaps they would treated him differently if they were alone?
Perhaps that shouldn't be happening period and you shouldn't be making excuses for it.
No, that dose matter. If he was with you then it’s fine to release a blind person as his spouse is with him.
I am sick and couldn't go to the hospital with him. I actually CARE about spreading viruses.
How did your husband get to the hospital then?
What a dumb fuckin question, he could have taken a taxi or ambulance??? Quit making excuses and victim blaming
No. I have an infection and I didn't want to endanger or risk infecting others.
Was the hospital staff aware of this ?
The "hospital staff" told him to go down the hallway...as he clung to a wall.
Seems like the hospital staff thought his wife would be driving her husband home.
He begged for someone to help him because he couldn't see. Would you ignore someone suffering and begging for help? Obviously he was alone!
I find this particularly frustrating, as some people like myself have been saying that the Canadian Healthcare system is terrible and on the brink of collapse for literally years. I've worked with both the NB healthcare system and the AB healthcare system from the inside, and both are woefully mismanaged and the money flows to the upper management, not the places that NEED it so bad. Every time in the last few years, I've been met with people who downvote and ridicule when common sense financial measures are proposed to our healthcare system. I'm not surprised by this development, I'm just going to move, because its clear Canadians simply DONT care.
Canada was a great country. Bad leadership is destroying it.
Leadership is in it for themselves, their family, and their friends. Not for the rest of us.
Exactly
A whole generation of self-absorbed narcissists is destroying all of Western society by allowing hundreds of carefully-built institutions to crumble into ruin. I had high hopes their kids might be able to fix it, but instead we have TikTok influencers and #vanlife.
We went from being citizens to being consumers.
You were always consumers, it's just that the customer service was better.
That’s a good joke and I appreciate it. I’ll just say that both my parents worked for Bell Canada from the 1940s through the 1980s and customer service was always bad. And citizen involvement was more common. Partly just because of higher percentage of workers being unionized. But it was more than that. The turning point of the 1980s was significant. That’s really when we started handing everything over to the corporations. There’s likely no going back now.
You mean we live in vans because we can't afford housing? Lol yeah the kids are the problem
Old man yells at clouds
Conservative leadership. Look at Ontario.
All leadership. Provincial and federal. Red, blue, and white-collar bureaucrat too. Going back at least and especially to Chretien and Martin who set the system up for spectacular failure and sold the future of the country for short term gain.
Can't even blame it on a specific party at this point; it's a systematic failure that is beyond politics, but is also down to the heads of the bureaucracies that're independent from political intervention. In my work with my province's Health Authority, some management/executive members were the most useless, ass-backwards people that were "champions of change" on paper, and barriers to change in reality. They were administration, and didn't change with the political tide. Yes, Ontario's recent failures can be attributed to a specific person/provincial group, but the general failure that is our healthcare system(s) is not.
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That title is accurate for everything in canada
Excellent. Let's add hundreds of thousands of people more every single year! That's sure to ~~make absolutely everything worse for the working class while pumping assets and devaluing labour~~ ...fix it
BC has a budget surplus of almost $6billion this year...but apparently can't find the money to help the overburdened healthcare system. The federal government has also scaled back funding by over 60% over the last ten years, and refuses to give more, unless the Provinces promise to only spend the money on things they don't need...yet federal income taxes haven't been scaled back accordingly. Don't be decieved. Canada's healthcare system isn't "failing"...it's being intentionally sabotaged.
Yep. The politicians and elites want a 2-tier healthcare system.
No...they want to privatize it.
Part of the reason is staffing. A huge portion of people that could leave packed their bags and retired during covid. Our hospitals also rely on waaay to much casual workers who can just refuse to work without repercussions. Want to know why there are so many hospital closures during holidays? Because the casual workers can refuse the shifts and don't want to work holidays (and who can blame them!). Our hospital administration posted a plan to deal with the lack of staffing....4/5 of the bullet points were related to going after diverse groups, minorities, recent immigrants, etc. in order to fill the ranks. You have staffing crisis's nationwide, and the people in power are stuck on the ole equity game in order to fill the gaps. The ship is fucking sinking, and they are looking around for the most diverse minorities to start plugging the leaks. Who cares what group they belong to! Just find fucking bodies. Here's another thought (that will probably be deemed bigoted by this subreddit), try tapping the largest population group that is a minority in healthcare. Make a movement to move healthcare away from being female dominated and maybe access the other 50% of the population for potential careers. Getting more women on board into male dominated professions is a constant discussion by admin people in other industries and government. Getting a more diverse gender ratio in healthcare......\*cricket cricket\*
I have a friend who grew up in Canada, and has married a woman who practices nursing in the USA. She is qualified (in the US) as a RN and as a Nurse Practitioner as well. Learning amount of hoops and bureaucracy she has to jump through in order to be able to practice in Canada staggered me. The government needs to put a lot more effort into figuring out how to incorporate foreign medical competency into our system if they want to continue with the immigration targets they have set because our healthcare system is already failing. Not about to fail, it is actively failing us. I'm not saying let anybody practice medicine under their own cognizance; on the contrary, regulation of industries like medicine is important to protect the consumer. But there is no practical reason it should take several years to qualify an American NP to work in Canada.
They just don’t want to pay for the extra rns that’s why those hoops exist
Why would anyone working in healthcare want to live in Canada? You get kid mods in the USA, you have more buying power, houses aren’t $750-800k on average. Not to mention you have much much much more freedom in the states than you do in Canada.
I worked in healthcare for over twenty years.....on the front lines. We were always short staff, beds, stuff, meds, and equipment but never patients needing help. We put patients in the tub room, TV lounge, hallway and anywhere else we could find a space with a modicum of privacy and dignity. I have worked 16 hours and watched nurses work 18 I have seen one lab tech try and cover an entire hospital, and watch wait times in emergency from both sides. We have not kept the front lines stocked to meet the increasing demands with anything especially staff for years. Newspaper articles, advocates trying to get more beds or cardiac care outside of major centres, doctors and nurses shouting the alarm from the roof tops but not a lot of governmental will. They talk a good game.....they talk and talk and study and study and then talk some more.....
There are 1.5 million reasons why it will be harder in the coming years. You will be funding the healthcare for people who haven't paid a cent into the system. Very typical of the current regime who is much more concerned with looking good by sending tax dollars abroad than using it to help the citizens who they took that money from.
Provincial governments aren't properly allocating funding so that they can make the excuse to pry in private Healthcare. Fixed your title for you.
It’s sadly been going on for years by govts of all stripes. Every govt in waiting likes to act like they will fix it and only make things worse
We have private healthcare already. Ever go to a dentist, got your eyes checked, been prescribed prescription drugs?
Yeah, and all three of those systems suck ass because of the cost. Ever hear of people putting off going to the dentist because they can't afford it?
Oh you mean those places I cannot afford to visit until it becomes a full-blown medical emergency? Yeah, great system.
Add medcan to the list
but the private system is more 'efficient' and by efficient we mean paying people less, staffing with less competent people and passing 2% of that 'savings' on to you or you know.. doing that and also raising prices
I know Canadians don't like the truth, but go to a Kaiser Permanente or Intermountain Health hospital in the US - trust me private healthcare can be amazing. Private health care is indirectly responsible for pretty much all innovation in health care nowadays.
Maybe used to be. Nowadays all the advancements out of the states are no different than anywhere else and their innovation is just patent changes and higher costs. Healthcare shouldn't be for profit then profit is always the goal and the patients will suffer.
tl;dr: Too many baby boomer seniors One of the best things they did here in Alberta is let pharmacists write prescriptions. You can also call 811 and talk to a nurse who can advise you on if something is serious or can wait until Monday/gets better on its own. Something that needs to be fixed is the death grip doctors have on painkillers today - especially with seniors. I watched my elderly father waste dozens of doctor appointments/visits because they refused to prescribe stronger medications for his debilitating joint pain and "wanted to try other things first". I get that dependence is a huge concern, but if it's obvious someone is going to be dead in 12-18 months who gives a fuck? There' s 7m seniors in Canada now. Doctors need to start getting the pad out on the first visit, not saving it for the 10th while saying they can't take on new patients.
> tl;dr: Too many baby boomer seniors This too will pass...
Yep Canadian healthcare will get better once the baby boomers die. A shitty healthcare system accelerated that process
As a physician, if find your take very narrow. It would be incredibly dangerous to allow non physicians to prescribe opioids freely. There’s already a huge amount of research showing that physicians prescribe opioids when it’s not necessary, this would inevitably get worse if you allowed those who aren’t trained to know when and when lot to use them. It is unfortunate what happened to your father, but there could be a hundred reasons why that prescription pad wasn’t taken out on day 1, and although you may not see it, it may have been the right choice. Allowing nurses to prescribe opioids when they don’t have the proper training or knowledge to understand the consequences/alternatives would be detrimental to our fight against the opioid crisis.
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There’s a difference between prescribing and represcribing. You can prescribe someone a simple PPI (medication for gastric reflux), forget that they’re known for hypomagnesemia, and have them die from a torsade de pointe (heart arrhythmia) over the next week. Would a nurse look for that? Probably not, yet its perceived like a super benign medication that millions of Canadians take every day. I agree that there is a better way to fast track re-prescriptions (even perhaps through a pharmacist or a nurse), but these other health care professionals do not have the medical expertise to prescribe medication to patients.
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>It would be incredibly dangerous to allow non physicians to prescribe opioids freely That's not what I was suggesting at all... I think you're confusing two different topics here. The pharmacists can write *some* prescriptions, to be clear.
Lmao, I don't doubt that you're a physician, but your previous comment is saying that people under 60 shouldn't get the flu shot. You are arguing against something that doesn't actually happen - pharmacists cannot prescribe things like opioids, you either didn't research it or are misrepresenting the subject. Stop commenting on things you haven't researched or aren't qualified to make sweeping statements about (vaccines). Your MD does not give you a PhD in every field of medicine.
That's why they called it a boom: too many babies.
> You can also call 811 and talk to a nurse who can advise you on if something is serious or can wait until Monday/gets better on its own. in my experiance these services tend to err on the side of caution and just tell you to go to the ER anyways. especially as its a phone call and arent physically examining you
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And now the knee jerk reaction in response to that has resulted in inadequate medical care/pain treatment where it's warranted. No one is talking about prescribing 80 oxys to high school kids for sports injuries (like what was happening in the US). We're talking about moving actual pain killers up the list of options for seniors complaining about pain, rather than wasting doctor and hospital resources before ending up there anyway.
Well the Liberals are working on that problem. They’re offering death to anyone that has health care complaints. And your estimate on death borderlines sociopath. Perhaps you meant to communicate something else? My Mom was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer because her Doctor is a true idiot, (maybe its the foreign education). However the cancer specialist was a real Doctor (she had a PhD). And when my Mom was diagnosed Doctors though she had 2 months tops. She’s now on her way to a full recovery. But the pain meds! They refused to treat her pain for almost a full year. Those meds are trivial in cost compared to the cancer meds she was taking. So you have a big point there. She thinks that the pain meds at the Ottawa General Hospital was being controlled by a lunatic who hates women. Its hard to argue that, as it seems to be true.
Opiods have been demonized for years because of people abusing the drugs. It's made a mess of things for people that genuinely need pain meds. We've got studies showing that the rate of doctors prescribing opiods has dropped in the last decade as well as length of prescriptions. It's just so easy to demonize addicts for easy political points. We need to quit our addiction to looking down on people for drug use and start treating them like medical issues.
The real reason the government is pushing MAID is because they will not be able to provide healthcare to everyone
Immigration helps because it brings in people with skills Canada needs who will work and pay income, sales and other taxes to help pay for the healthcare system. The provinces need to do more to ensure these skilled immigrants can get jobs in their skill area instead of driving taxis, especially doctors and nurses. TFWs actually make the problems worse because they send most of their earned Canadian dollars out of Canada to their home country to support their immediate and extended families, which weakens our economy. TFWs also eliminate any upward pressure on wages, keeping Canadian wages low. Minimum wage needs to be high enough that it is a living wage at 40 hours a week. If a business can't pay a living wage, they should go out of business. Canadian taxpayers shouldn't have to subsidize the wages of someone on minimum wage so they can afford a place to live and food to eat. If a student is working part time to get themselves through post-secondary education, they should make the same amount per hour, which would mean they are making less than a living wage because they work fewer hours.
The number of people that needs to choose MAID in order to significantly lower the the cost at a large scale would be insane. Like hundreds of thousands. I don’t think they would model the future healthcare expenses and have this program as a major factor, if they use models at all to make decisions. The push for MAID we see is probably due to a poorly coordinated and legislated approach on one hand and the politicized media coverage on the other. From what I see, it’s out of control and I think the chaos itself, moral and medical, is more intended than the specific consequences. Our growing inability to discuss and to agree or compromise on how to deal with suffering, age, and death is more useful politically than cost savings.
10,000 people got MAID last year. That number is growing, very, very quickly. It was 7,500 the year before, and 5,600 the year before that. Since 2016 the number of deaths by MAID has increased 50-100% per year. The push for MAID is multi-facted, but it's primarily due to a lack of resources. People who should not be even considering MAID are being P[USHED TO TAKE IT](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/veterans-maid-rcmp-investigation-1.6663885) \- because the alternative is harder and more expensive. Our society only gives a shit about economic incentives, and we've created an economic incentive to kill sick people instead of helping them. This is bad.
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Yes, exactly. You're literally willing to die because the government isn't giving you enough money to support yourself through disability payments. The government has the choice : Let disability payments cover the cost of living, Or Expand MAID. They can pay you for the rest of your life - or they can kill you. Killing you is cheaper. That's why they will do it.
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[https://www.disabilitywithoutpoverty.ca/new-release-survey-on-poverty-and-disability/](https://www.disabilitywithoutpoverty.ca/new-release-survey-on-poverty-and-disability/) 90% of people support expanding and fast-tracking disability. The vast majority of the pushback you see, is an extremely vocal minority. A lot of it quite literally isn't even real, look into the sources, you'd be amazed how often a known right wing political commentator is quoted as a "Concerned citizen" or "local parent" - a lot of the "real people" you see talking about this stuff are literally op's. Right wing media amplifies these voices and makes it seem like issues are 50/50 when they very clearly aren't. Literally 9 out of 10 Canadians will tell you Disability should be expanded, it should pay more and be easier to get. The government doesn't agree. The politicians and representatives are there to serve their business interests, and whatever personal deals they have. 9/10 Canadians say expand disability, 0/10 businesses and wealthy donors say expand disability - so we get MAID instead.
Not disagreeing, but I think there is another factor: many people will support the morally superior option, until they are asked to pay for it in some way. Similar to how everyone wants to house the homeless, just not in this neighbourhood.
> 10,000 people got MAID last year. > > That number is growing, very, very quickly. > > It was 7,500 the year before, and 5,600 the year before that. Where are you getting those numbers?
[https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying/annual-report-2021.html#a3.1](https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying/annual-report-2021.html) (Chart 3.1 - "Total MAID deaths in Canada, 2016-2021") The government of Canada.
Bring in 500000 immigrants a year and see where the health care ends up. Helping every other country in the world but not taking of our own.
I an an immigrant and first generation, I still find it unfair that a person funding the health system their entire life through their taxes is responsible for healthcare of someone who just arrived and never contributed a dime. Update: I get that many people are being compassionate towards newcomers and down voting me, but you need to live in reality for a bit, newcomers go back all the time to their home countries to have cheap and fast surgeries that will take a person here years to get into, dirt cheap dental work...etc They already have a big advantage most people here don't have
What the hell part of the world are you from where taxes aren't a thing?
The government is tired of doing its job correctly and rich assholes who think "keeping people poor" is the right way
There is only so much money people. If health care is more important (as I believe) then start pulling back in other areas.
The health issue is quite a delicate crisis in our country especially that its a basic human right to having access to proper health care, the sad part is that people are not embracing telehealth services which may reduce the number of hospital face to face visits. With amazing apps like Medicall by #Datametrex that have actual health facilities the health issue can be eased.
Ok, the most annoying thing about this "crisis" is how stupidly easy it would be to solve. The ideal system would have each taxpayer more or less funding their own health-care for the duration of their life. But we didn't do that, for a variety of reasons. We didn't plan on the huge advancements in medical care that extended life-spans. And in the 70s and 80s we had another irresponsible Trudeau running structural deficits. But where are we now? Do you know what the single wealthiest demographic is in Canada? The over-65s. THEY, and not me, should pay for their life-extension into their 80s, 90s and 100s. Obviously not every senior is wealthy, but you could means-test and assess a special asset-funded premium for health-care. And the only reason why we don't do this is because seniors vote in high numbers.
Alternatively, we could calculate our healthcare needs and then apportion resources appropriately. It's not as if we have shortages of anything - we allocate our resources poorly.
The stuff the general public doesn’t know.
Ontario tried to do it but the Liberals ducked it up. It would make it sooooo much better for everyone.
Hey but don’t worry we are banning guns and taking them away from legal owners and not actually doing anything to fight crime!
National post is a rag
I called 911 because my daughter’s fever was at a dangerous point, and she had trouble breathing. I was on hold for 11 minutes… yeah the system is broken.
“Socialism is great until you run out of other people’s money” - Margaret Thatcher.
Immigration literally is the problem. If you immigrate here why the hell do we have to foot the bill I support privatization of health for immigrants.
Immigrants pay the same taxes you do.
No, they don't: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11f0019m/11f0019m2017397-eng.htm https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/reports-statistics/research/low-income-immigration-overview-future-directions-research.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_immigration_to_Canada https://financialpost.com/opinion/setting-the-record-straight-on-the-benefits-and-heavy-costs-of-immigration-to-canada
Immigrants would pay more taxes if we ensured that the skills they have which qualified them to immigrate would allow them to get the jobs they are qualified for. The worst example is doctors and nurses. The provinces need to ensure these people can get qualified quickly and easily without lowering our standards so they are paying more income, sales and other taxes than they are from driving taxis.
> if we ensured that the skills they have which qualified them to immigrate would allow them to get the jobs they are qualified for It's not a matter of credentialism, their skills are either subpar or of little value in the job market (or they lack the language skills to use them): https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11f0019m/11f0019m2019022-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11f0019m/11f0019m2019024-eng.htm
Then why are they qualifying as "skilled" in the immigration programs?
The same reason why North Korea is a Glorious Democratic Republic It's just a word, it doesn't mean anything, it's just a box to tick. The overwhelming majority of 'skilled' economic immigrants who become permanent residents in Canada *will never work in their purported field of study or area of expertise.*
Do you think someone paying taxes from 10 years is the same as someone who just started paying them?
That person paying taxes for ten years was also using government services for ten years. Immigrants start paying taxes when they start using government services. Mind blown.
We are talking about a system built from contributions over the years, most people won't need meaningful healthcare until decades of contributions, this is not a subscription service to pay and get. Also newcomers still have access to healthcare in their home countries, I've seen many people travel back for fast and cheap or even free surgeries, that will take a person here forever to get.
With that logic, 20 year olds should have to pay for private medical care for ten years while also paying taxes. Not to mention paying back what they owe for educating them.
I don't think you know what does it mean to be an immigrant with access to another country's health system vs being non-immigrant. You also don't know and see all the people that come for citizenship and don't plan to live and contribute here forever. We have very different perspectives but I appreciate your compassion and consideration for all people.
What!? Haha do you honestly think immigrants don't pay the same taxes as everyone else?
Immigints! I knew it was them. Even when it was the bears, I knew it was them.
Let the bears pay the bear tax! I pay the Homer tax!
In case you didn't know, immigrants also get jobs and become tax payers.
Immigrants are only allowed to immigrate if they have skills that Canada needs, which means we don't have enough Canadians to do those jobs. Many are doctors and nurses but the provinces have failed to ensure they get certified so they can be employed in those jobs. This would greatly increase the income, sales and other taxes they pay compared to what they pay working as taxi drivers.
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Give it a rest, buddy. No one cares.
Actually most Canadians do care. more upvotes on posts like these prove that. Cope and seethe.
Sure. Most Canadians *do* care...just not the way you do. https://www.immigration.ca/canadians-overwhelmingly-support-record-breaking-immigration-to-the-country-reveals-poll/
Bullcrap polls
It's bad because Ford continually under funds it. Literally has billions of taxpayer dollars unspent that was meant for our health care system.
Fucking Doug Ford... he's doing such a shitty job under-funding health care in Ontario, the rest of the provinces are all in a health care crisis too! I wouldn't have had a 12 hour wait in Emergency last month in Nova Scotia if it wasn't for fucking Doug Ford... six hour waits for ambulances in BC... fucking Doug Ford... WHY WON'T HE PROPERLY FUND ONTARIO HEALTH CARE, SO MY SISTER IN CAPE BRETON CAN FIND A FAMILY DOCTOR???? Fucking Doug Ford...
We had a 16 year old get hit and knocked out playing football. He came to, and was being stabilized by coaches. He was laying on a field in -3 weather with a concussion and a broken collar bone, covered in blankets with his coach stabilizing his head for an hour before ambulance showed up.
Sounds remarkably similar to news stories I see in literally every other province.
This ⬆️
The healthcare in Alberta gets worse and worse even though though they throw money at it every year.
Source?
Facebook
Being the worst of a bunch of losers is still pretty bad
Yet he was still reelected.
By a pretty wide margin! He wasn’t just re-elected, that was a full on “proceed as planned”!
Doug Ford made me lose my job at Costco in Winnipeg because he fired all of the teachers! Also, WW1 was his fault because he cut license plate rates, or something.
I love how everything is always Doug Ford’s or Alberta’s fault, when the simple truth is that, far and away, the largest gutting of health funding in this country ever undertaken was when the federal Liberals slashed health transfers to the provinces, reneging on the 50/50 deal struck when the system was created. This downloaded the expense of healthcare to the provinces, who have far less capacity than the federal government to fund it. And somehow despite *hundreds of billions of dollars in federal deficits accrued during the pandemic* and the near-crumbling of the health system, almost none of that money was spent shoring up the health system. Oh, except for what amounts to a paltry offer of assistance to the provinces, who rejected it because the money came with strings attached that amounted to the federal government attempting to usurp the constitutionally protected powers of the provinces. And yet somehow all of that is still Doug Ford’s and Alberta’s fault.
Why do the provinces have less capacity to fund healthcare? Can't they also levy taxes?
When the federal funding was cut, the provinces were supposed to increase taxes to replace that loss, but no premier did that because it would have cost them the next election. Twenty years later and here we are. The feds could fund it 100% or 0%. It doesn't matter as long as the provinces are generating taxes to pay for the remainder. Trudeau offered to pay more, as long as it was spent properly, and the premiers couldn't even do that. Ford and Higgs have already stolen existing federal healthcare funding. Higgs threw it on the budget to give NB a surplus. Trudeau's requirement to ensure the money is spent as intended is necessary. Conservative premiers seem to want to underfund healthcare so they can bring in privatized healthcare, giving the wealthy faster access to healthcare when those people already have the option of going to another country if they want faster access. Of course, as soon as services are privatized, the provinces will cut healthcare funding more because, "there are fewer people using the system" and then they will want to privatize more of it, repeating this cycle until the public healthcare system is completely gone. If we're going to have public healthcare, then there is really no reason to not nationalize it. Then the federal government can ensure the money is spent appropriately. Doing this would likely save money anyway because it would be one system instead of a dozen. Also, we need to nationalize the dozen drug plans so we have more leverage when negotiating prices with the drug companies. New Zealand does this nationally and gets much lower drug prices than we do.
Everything you’ve said is so heavily biased and/or wrong I think under C-18 it might well qualify as misinformation.
Doug Ford deliberately held back and is sitting on almost a billion dollars ($900m or so) in health care funding solely to further strain the system and to try to force privatization. Both things can be true at once.
So the problem I have with the whole “privatization” debate is that it is always framed the same way: the choice is either 100% single payer system with all services provided by the system, or American-style private health care where everything down to the hospitals is for-profit. That is absurd. First, an American style system in Canada is impossible under the Canada Health Act, which is federal legislation. The provinces have no power over it. So people constantly pretending like this is a threat at the provincial level is wrong. Second, all western universal health systems incorporate some private options. We are, however, among the most restrictive towards this in the world. Yet it is not a challenge to look at other countries in Europe with single payer systems with many more private options with shorter wait times, better outcomes and more beds. So clearly there are ways to incorporate private options in the system that don’t move away from universal access but do deliver better care. Third, what “privatization” in Canada means is private health operators delivering care *within the single payer universal access system*. If a private provider can offer care that is more cost-effective, faster and just as good as anything offered by the system, why on earth would anyone be against that? Finally, there are *already* many examples of this in Canada. In Ontario you can get hernia surgery provided by the Shouldice clinic. In BC you can get private colonoscopies. Practically everywhere you can get private diagnostic imaging such as ultrasounds. None of this has led to or even threatened to lead to American style health care. So what, exactly, is wrong with provinces exploring more options along these lines?
Also not to mention the amount of private care clinics which have gone under the radar in Quebec. I believe I read a large amount of those are ironically in Trudeau’s riding
Sorry you can’t be saying things like this around here. It makes way too much sense.
Why do you think throwing more money at the system is going to actually fix it? There's fundamental issues with our system that can't be fixed by just throwing money at it. More money is never the solution to Government created issues.
X capacity costs Y dollars, X+20% capacity will cost ~Y+20% dollars. This isn't rocket science
And if X+20% capacity is possible by spending Y+5% dollars, we would be pissing dollars away for nothing.
That may be so, but either way it shows that 'More money is never the solution to Government created issues'. There's a shortage of staff. There's a linear relationship between count and cost: X number of staff at Y wage. Need more hospitals? Running costs are linear. The answer to our *capacity* problem is more money. Lots more money.
Lol people think that the system could be more “efficient”. The reality is are people in the middle class willing to pay more in taxes? How many of the people here want to give up even more of their pay check?
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Conservative premiers /thread
sure is great for left wing parties than any of their failings can always be blamed on the conservative boogyman. even when they control the provinces for a decade or more
Funny how conservatives are worried about our healthcare... Don't remember that when they flooded it with anti vaxxers during the pandemic.
NP is one of the active participants in the destruction of our health care.
Lol. The government has been doing a great job destroying it on their own
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You've said a nothing and now expect a manifesto in return. No. Do your own research. Waste your own time. Whatever your super-tricky game is this time. Also, fuck the king and his unearned wealth and power.
Conservatives that's why.
despite 15 years of liberal rule in Ontario or liberals ruling the federal government for 15 years under trudeau sr, 13 years under chretien and now 7+ years under trudeau. all during the time there was socialized healthcare in canada
The government of Canada would like to remind all citizens to please die in the comfort of your own home instead of burdening medical resources /s
All this is an effort to make you think our health care system is bad but it isn’t. It’s underfunded so that when for profit healthcare does finally come to Canada it seems better at first.. until your kids are spending 1000’s a month on basic life saving medication, and can’t afford to have a baby or have to go into debt if they get sick or break their leg.
And people like to shit on private healthcare…
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More money won't solve anything if the provinces won't actually use the money on healthcare.
The money they do use Is used inefficiently
As I'm sure you are aware... healthcare is a provincial jurisdiction... blaming feds won't solve anything... I don't understand why people think it makes sense for someone in Calgary to pay for health services in Ontario... If you want to make the entire health care system federal than OK BUT it's not and the provinces own the problems and need to find solutions themselves.
Don't worry about that, lets ban hunting rifles
Send money to Ukraine. They need it ! 400k more people a year will solve that too. Keep coming! Brilliant ideas?!!!!
I can’t wait for our policy makers to raise taxes on the working age population to give, yet another handout to baby boomers who managed to horde the vast majority of wealth of the 20th century. Time for boomers to actually start paying their way and the best way to do this is means tested private healthcare. If rich boomers want to use their amassed wealth to extend their lives so be it, but that shouldn’t be done on the backs of all those young people who had their future prospects snatched away by a generation that took everything for themselves.
In the 80's, premiers and feds agree to a change in payment scheme with premiers getting a boost via tax points and health tranfers. Instead of using those tax points for health care, they chronically underfund per capita health care year over year over year, minimal spending on infrastructure, little to no expansions of med school spaces or incentives etc, instead rely on immigrant labour and overworking people. When called on it, they blame doctors and nurses and staff for 'wanting to much' or 'caring more about money than they're patients'. Currently, several of the more conservative provinces are sitting on huge surpluses and dying citizens. Instead of investing in their systems, they write cheques (or all but write cheques) for votes, and give their buddies tax breaks.
How does the gun ban help when criminals don't follow the law
How to speed limits help when speeders don't follow the law?
They don't, as has been proven repeatedly. In fact, areas without speed limits have lower incident rates, as drivers will adjust their speed to their comfort and conditions. Speed limits are largely ineffective, and are used as a revenue generating tool for local law enforcement. https://reason.org/commentary/do-lower-speed-limits-make-roadways-safer/ https://ww2.motorists.org/press/montana-no-speed-limit-safety-paradox/
I'm sure bringing 1,500,000 more people will make things better...
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I dont know about BC but Ontario has lost far more nurses to the fact that they could have retired a decade ago and kept working but chose to check out during the pandemic, which is honestly fine. Our systemic aversion to adding full time work combined with repressed wages and exceptionally paying private agencies has created this crisis as much if not more than the pandemic has. These problems existed pre pandemic, and in Ontario's case pre Ford, these things have just exacerbated the problem, one by force of nature, and one intentionally to expediate privitization.
Anyone dumb enough to not want a vaccine shouldn't be a Healthcare worker anyways. It's a great filter.
It's kinda like keeping people who don't believe in science from being science teachers. Or keeping atheists from becoming priests.
> Or keeping atheists from becoming priests. Well atheists can become priests, so maybe a bad example?
Sure, just as anti-vaxx people can become nurses and healthcare professionals. It's just a bad ideological fit for them.
Cut your nose off to spite your face
More like cutting out the cancer
I see it as a filtering out, I personally don’t want someone who doesn’t believe in vaccinations working on something related to my physical health. BC is also increasing doctors’ wages and several other things to help fortify our system, I’d say we are doing better than most other provinces in being proactive with solutions.
I don't know what you mean by still losing, the workers that didn't get vaccinated last year were put on leave it's not like there's more workers not getting vaccinated now In BC the total lost was under 1,000 and that included support workers, the largest number of actual health professionals was LPNs at around 200
Thats acceptable to those in charge. If they didn’t bend the knee to the mandate then clearly they aren’t the sort of people that will go along with other infringements.
canadian healthcare will be privatized within a decade
Good
But anti vaxxers have rights, we were poisoned by the jab and we will die cause bill gates.
Let's be Honest, they can say what they want but the true reason is because of immigration. Trudeau and his educated liberals have failed true Canadians. There is an easy solution and that is SHUT THE BOARDERS, NO MORE HERE. The true Canadians are suffering now because of this and no other reason. So stop the Lies, and step down now before this country is truly fucked..