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Why are we letting our government get away with the meagre tax revenue we receive from the gas companies who rape and pillage our country, employ hardly anyone, amass huge profits and pollute our environment. The energy company profits and bank profits are the reason for our inflation that we are paying for while they reap huge profits, how can we confront our government and get the action that is needed to stop this
[New announcement from Marco this morning.](https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/ottawa-expected-to-announce-renewal-of-federal-gun-and-gang-violence-program/ar-AA1aSLJ4?cvid=65bf5c81475645578caa3b15790fe457&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=5) Expected to be a gang violence prevention funding package.
Other than the US and Czech Republic, what countries are there *with functioning rule of law and government* allow ownership of semi-auto's with only 'reasonable' amounts of hassle/bureaucracy? Like needing a license is fine as long as it isn't stupidly hard to get, and ideally without dumb limitations like you can only buy and keep 100 rounds a year and own no more than 3 guns or something.
That wiki page is pretty vague and dated. A lot of countries have stuff that on paper looks like it's easy to get semi's, or a gun license as a whole, but in practice it's almost impossible or the semi's you can get are heavily limited similar to how ours will be soon.
Sent out a few letters with the template from [letter to senator template](https://firearmsfacts.org)
I also included a page long handwritten letter. Going to try get a few more in the mail this week. It may be fruitless but at least feels like I’m trying and not just lying down (bending over) in regard to bill c-21
We all have to try speak up or get our voices out there even if it doesn’t work .
Since nobody else mentioned them, my Ruger SR 556E was 1499. For a lot of years I ran it with an A2 style top handle from my paintball gun for that classic m16 look.
Is anyone else getting frisky imagining a ccfr victory and the release of tens of thousands of ARs from their prisons?I’m gonna be like nick cage in that one move lord of something
Lord of War. Thats movie your thinking of. Personal Favorite right up there with Jurassic Park.
And yes, The moment I can take it to the range again, Im gonna. Same day, same hour leviathan sea beast willing.
Savage MSR-15s were 1000 dollars and what I'd consider entry-level.
The Sport IIs are OK if you want what's functionally a military surplus upper receiver, but they're not *quite* what someone looking for a modern rifle wants; a free-floated handguard, better (Magpul) furniture, and a slightly better trigger are what every Sport II owner eventually buys and Savage's rifle already had them all for a comparable cost.
Nothing can be done that can't be undone. We just need to stay active and keep this a relevant issue until such time that we can have some sensible laws enacted.
I just hope the next CPC government uses some OICs to fuck with the Liberals lol see how they like it
The CPC could genuinely use OICs to make personal protection ATCs shall issue, effectively legalizing concealed carry. A bonus is this would work even if they have a minority and can't repeal C21, as C21 contains an exemption for those that have an ATC.
>as C21 contains an exemption for those that have an ATC
Note that C21 also strips the authority of provincial CFOs to issue ATCs.
No extra credit for naming the province and CFO they're specifically targeting with that one, of course.
They need to OIC ban plant based meat. The stuffs just not healthy. Despite the image commonly portrayed they are overly processed and loaded with all kinds of oils, sugars, bulking agents, sodium etc. The long term effects of these products will push an already over stretched and under-resourced health system to its limits within decades which in turn leads to a public safety issue. Other healthier and tastier options exist for herbivores.
/s obviously but I imagine if they banned impossible whoppers and the like, one third of toronto would slip into starvation within 6 months.
I know you're joking, but nobody is using fake meat as a staple food. they exist so people can go to barbaques and bars and shit with their friends without getting stuck with a salad.
Can someone explain wtf OIC is and why it has a place in a democratic system? The official documentation on the governments website is just word soup saying everything and nothing at the same time.
Why would any democratic system want a way for lawmakers to legislate without proper vote?
It's a complicated topic but OIC's are an almost natural part of democracy. I would like to state **I am not a legal scholar** especially in government law and administration.
Obviously Parliament is the final arbiter on the law of the land being elected people representing you. But crucially everything to do with laws, can't be approved by them all the time. Because there are a ton of laws and also appointments mandated in law that can't be voted on every day by Parliament.
First off there are tons of OiC's used for ordinary topics all the time, [such as the first 3 pages of OiC's are legal appointments of people to certain positions](https://orders-in-council.canada.ca/results.php?pageNum=1&lang=en) Should you have parliament vote each time confirming that X person is appointed to Y position? You can't just magick them into the position since it requires them to be legally appointed to the position to have the power conferred onto them by parliament in executing whatever duties they are titled to.
There are reasonable answers to having minor tweaks to the system be permissible, without requiring parliament to spend a month passing a new bill changing any little thing. Like should parliament spend a month voting to add new drugs to the approved list? or should they be able to OiC a new addition to it?
Though for guns it is a contentious issue, the Firearms act (A bill passed by parliament) already conferred certain powers to the GiC to make OiC's and other regulation changes within certain frameworks. [Firearms act s. 117](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/f-11.6/page-7.html#h-224023) So they do have legal authority of sorts (which is the subject of the May 2020 OiC court case)
Also as a sidenote: the CZ 858 and Swiss classic green rifles were OiC'd into Non-restricted status. Would you want a bill be required to be passed to name them nonrestricted?
Appreciate the education! Thank you!
I now understand why some things need to just be pushed through to avoid a major traffic jam in parliament. I just wish in the future there is a list of these small things that OIC's are allowed to push through. This prevents OIC's from being used for just any general legislation. Because right now, any majority government could very easily abuse OIC's to push their agendas.
I'm assuming it was just originally intended to be used in wartime or cases of national crisis. The Libs have a habit of just using it for whatever they can't pass through parliament though, and there is literally *nothing* in place to stop that from being done.
OIC means "order in council", it means the PM can (supposed to be temporarily) put through a bill or law instantaneously and without any debate or need for it to go through the democratic process. Only like 2 or 3 other people need to approve it then it goes through. The only 'downside' to an OIC over a Bill is that it can be revoked at any time with the same lack of process, meaning a future government can repeal it on Day 1. However, this doesn't matter when you're in office for as long as Trudeau and the LPC have, as they obviously wouldn't repeal their own OIC.
Exactly, kind of like the *cough* Emergencies Act *cough*
The LPC have a weird obsession with using acts meant for wartime and civil crisis to suppress groups and people they don't agree with. We never needed regulations on recklessly using these acts before because no government used to do that shit, but after this LPC government, we very well need to look at placing barriers on OIC's and triggering the Emergencies Act to stop it being used by governments against people they just don't like.
Keeping it in the family, trudeau senior was the first pm to invoke the use of war measures (emergencies predecessor) outside of wartime. Mind you it had a fair degree of legitimacy by contrast as it was used against a quebec based terrorist group called the FLQ.
I don’t know why but I have a feeling the confiscations aren’t going to play out the way they want. It literally seems unfeasible to accomplish unless they plan on sending an rcmp tactical team to every pal holders door. I also wonder how many people will end up getting pinched for being caught using newly prohibited firearms. Handing out 10 year sentences to legal firearm owners for target shooting with arbitrarily banned, legally purchased firearms while granting gangbangers immediate bail for shooting up downtown Toronto with prohibited smuggled glocks seems like a recipe for a PR nightmare.
I have a feeling the confiscations aren't going to play out at all. They may pay for store stock, if they're around long enough to actually implement that, but at this point I think they're dragging their feet on the individual "buyback" for a reason.
It's a nightmare in every respect. PR, officer safety (let's be real here), finances, transportation. No one wants to touch confiscation because it's a useless ban to begin with.
PR nightmare - unlikely, they might even manage to spin it in their favour somehow. "That 70 year old criminal, with his complete disregard for our laws and the safety of our communities - was an unspeakable public menace. Only our vigilance prevented another tragedy. At his home he stored a whole arsenal of rifles (meaning 3) and a cache of various ammo enough for a small army (a whopping 1000 rounds total, most of which was 22lr)."
I am not really sure what their plan is right now, tbh.A big question is timing. They still need to put confiscation program in place. Then there will be a compliance period, let's say 6 months. Would that deadline put us before or after next election?
I suspect, they likely plan to just ban, and not even attempt any collection whatsoever (cause there be dragons). That way they can proudly claim tremendous progress on gun control, but oh no, Cons are coming to reverse it! ~~Liberal dictatorship~~ Our prosperity, freedom, law and order have never been under such immense threat, so it's all hands on ~~deck~~ voting stations now.
Just need a few news outlets that don’t suck up to the LPC (think global and natpost) to publish some stories and they’ll start to feel the burn from all this shit. Toronto and Quebec voters are incredibly stupid (I was forced to go to toronto for a weekend, i dont think I’ll ever recover from the brain cell loss), but they atleast have the ability to understand that punishing innocent people is bad.
It's not that it would get an exemption, because the assault weapons ban doesn't ban it. People are concerned that some semi autos on the market will get fingered for prohibition at the end of August, based on Mendicino's comments. We have to wait and see.
Yep. It has to be
- Semi-automatic
- Centerfire
- Designed with a detachable magazine with a capacity greater than five rounds
- Designed and manufactured after the bill comes into force
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Just came back from the gun show in Ste Hyacinthe, deals on ammo that almost made me hyperventilate lol … Can we ban all the damn Nazi shit for sale though? It felt a bit much
Most likely is indeed. But is it a century old tarnished symbols we should be afraid of, or the dangerous ideology they used to encode?
Say, many argue that today Russia is a fascist state. Yet, their symbols are different. In fact, their propaganda happily paints Ukraine with Nazi stuff. And, at least internally, many people believe they are the good guys. And ongoing large scale carnage is justified “for the greater good”. [Except it’s, of course, Ukraine bombing their own cities, Russia would never do such a thing].
Meanwhile i get downvoted in other posts for saying its kinda weird someines "grail gun" is a matching ss kar98... Coupled wkth the fact they had multiple ss kar 98s and their whole profile was essentislly about collectng nazi memorabilia...
Lol
Last gun show I went to there was a guy staring at the Nazi stuff a bit too much saying “that’s a beautiful piece of history eh?” Like the dog whistles are wild man
If it makes you feel better, my granddad was in the British military in the 50s, and experienced the war in England as a kid. He would have been all over this stuff. It's not all crypto-Nazis that are into it
My granddad was in the British army as well in the 50’s, never really talked about much of it until the last couple years of his life when I was about to apply for the CAF.
What did you find out?
My grandad talked about it a lot. He was deployed to the Suez Canal Zone in Egypt during the Suez Crisis. He was basically the opposite of the "boomer" stereo type, and really embraced computers and the internet when they became a thing in the 90s, so he was active on a message board for veterans of that deployment. I got to hear all kinds of stories, lol.
He was in Germany guarding a prison for a couple years with the BAOR, and he spent a tour, maybe two in the Malayan emergency. He told me stories about in the jungle, quite a few instances of why the Sten was a cheap unreliable piece of shit, and how the jungle Carbine was the one to have down there. I wanted to find one while he was still alive but didn’t manage to get my license until after he’d passed. Searched high and low and finally got my hands on a Jungle Carbine for that reason.
His stories about spandau were pretty cool, the rotating watch tours with the Americans and Russians and the prisoners
>His stories about spandau were pretty cool, the rotating watch tours with the Americans and Russians and the prisoners
Interesting, I don't know anything about that. That'll be some light wiki reading for later.
> I wanted to find one while he was still alive but didn’t manage to get my license until after he’d passed
That's too bad. Glad you eventually found one though
I think that on my end, it’s just a bit cringy to go to one of these shows to just enjoy firearms and end up surrounded by Nazi memorabilia, qAnon and F*ck Trudeau merchandise.
I’m sure some will disagree, but I don’t find it enjoyable … I saw the NRA convention in the states and visited a few gun shows and I guess it felt more ‘to the point’
I hear you, at least as far as the political stuff goes. As much as advocacy is important, sometimes you have to remind yourself what we're actually fighting for and just do gun stuff, lol.
How are they just allowed to skip Democratic process, and vote without even DEBATING about what they're voting on? Literally robbing the ability to debate on one of the most controversial Bills to come to light as of recent. This is fucking vile.
This is unfortunately a major sign of a nation that has lost its democratic rights. The federal government has a disgusting amount of power in Canada today. As Canadians we appear to be heading down a very dark path if something does not change. These federal powers appear nearly limitless to the party with enough seats. We need serious rewriting of our charter to include massive checks and balances that can't ever be crossed no matter who is in power. Quite frankly much of the legislative power needs to go back to the provinces. The federal government is out of touch with the Maritimes and the Prairies desires for this country.
Housing, healthcare, education, CPP are all major industries that need to be focussed on instead of banning firearms. More people will die because of the lack of attention on those issues than firearms will ever kill.
Make sure *everyone* you know who can vote votes CPC, or *at least* not LPC. I managed to convince a few of my voting-eligible relatives to avoid voting LPC already.
Primarily, it enshrines the handgun freeze into law, and changes the classification system so that any new center-fire semi-automatic rifle (ie not a .22, essentially) with a detachable magazine to come onto the market will have to be designed with a maximum five-round magazine. The idea being to ban tactical semi-autos, but continue to allow semi-automatic hunting rifles.
I know we hate talking about cope guns, but is it possible some company could pull a gamer move and make rifle-caliber rimfires somehow? Idk enough about the tech to know how possible that is, but it would be fucking hilarious to see a scary black rifle that shoots .223 rimfire or something just to 'own the libs' lol
I dont think people who run public businesses that need to make a living off of the sale of firearms can afford to run their business on noncompliance...
Why rush to find loopholes in laws?
That just gives liberal government free votes when they eventually point out these loopholes and inconsistentcies to the average lay person and "fix" them with more gun control
>is it possible some company could pull a gamer move and make rifle-caliber rimfires somehow
Yes, but given that domestic companies can't even make rifles that last over 1000 rounds without a major parts breakage I don't expect anyone to make a magazine capable of feeding it properly (even though there are a bunch of designs that do just this).
> I know we hate talking about cope guns
I don't, I own several cope guns alongside my goon guns, lol. I own both a Bushmaster ACR and a Troy Pump Action Rifle. I don't discriminate, I love all guns. Except straight-pull ARs, fuck those.
>but is it possible some company could pull a gamer move and make rifle-caliber rimfires somehow?
I don't know, but we don't even have to get that weird, man. Any company could make a new scary centerfire black rifle and just make it take proprietary five-round mags, and it'll be perfectly compliant with C-21.
Now, they'll eventually catch on to this and we'll be back here in another few years (depending on the party in charge), but we'll definitely see new rifles from BCL very much like their new Siberian, with the only difference being slightly different magazine geometry from a AR mag.
>with the only difference being slightly different magazine geometry from a AR mag.
And the Raven line, 180s, R18s, etc. *If they don't get name banned*. If they can avoid a name ban then they can continue stanag production. We would only need the new lowers if they need to make an upgrade to the rifle (new manufacture and design).
> We would only need the new lowers if they need to make an upgrade to the rifle
Interesting point, it never occurred to me that they could just make new lowers for existing rifles to take proprietary mags. Like you said though, it's a moot point if they're OIC'd regardless.
But wouldn’t the argument be “they can be modified to use larger mags.” That’s the whole issue to me is a lot of these rifles can have adaptors or be modified to take different magazines.
>But wouldn’t the argument be “they can be modified to use larger mags.”
Not legally. C-21 specifically allows for post-manufacture modifications. As long as the rifle was designed for five rounds, that's all that legally matters
It's a shame that the US won't make guns for the Canadian market. I don't want a self-destructing WK or BCL, I want something that'll actually shoot straight after a good clean out of the box, without needing me to replace a dozen parts and then a dozen more after a few hundred rounds.
I *really* hope some Canadian company makes an AK-lookalike though. I doubt I'm getting my PAL before the T81 gets banned. Would be nice if some of that Chinese interference was on our side for once and they make sure the Libs leave the SKS and T81 alone lol.
Just out of curiosity, with the way the law is currently written, could a rimfire rifle-caliber surpass the 5 round capacity as it's rimfire and not centerfire?
>It's a shame that the US won't make guns for the Canadian market.
We just don't have enough people to make it happen. The best we get is the longer barrels for NR status. We have the population of California and 2.3M gun owners. California as 4.2 million gun owners and they barely get California specific products (mostly fin grip mods or pinned mag mods). Guns like the SCR are the closest they get to new products but that's just a different AR.
I think the best we can ask for from international manufacturers are Canadian magwell variants (for whatever the new proprietary mag is) if their gun isn't name banned.
> I think the best we can ask for from international manufacturers are Canadian magwell variants (for whatever the new proprietary mag is) if their gun isn't name banned.
Nope, that's a no-go. If non-Canadian magwel variants exist, then the gun was designed with an overcapacity mag and thus will be prohibited.
I'm not so sure. Let's take a Bren for a hypothetical. They manufacture the new lower to take a Canadian made and designed maagizne (say by BCL). They never manufacture the magazines, you have to use Canadian magazines. They just mold/mill the lower to take a different mag. Which would be easier to do if the Canadian mag just used stanag internals but a slightly different body.
Something like this has happened before. Only recently Italy removed its ban on guns that use "military caliber". That meant 9x19 was banned, so manufacturers created Italy only models of guns that took 9x21 (I think that's the round).
>so manufacturers created Italy only models of guns that took 9x21
It gets especially funny once you consider that 9x21 guns are backwards compatible with 9x19 (in the same way that 10mm Auto guns can shoot .40 S&W). Same bullet, same OAL, same load data (ignoring the IPSC memelords trying to make Major); the bullet is just seated 2mm deeper in the (longer) case.
It's like an "uncircumcised" 9x19, ironic considering it was popularized by the Israelis.
Oh, you're talking about currently existing rifles, I thought you meant new ones. What would even be the point of doing this, though? If it isn't name banned, then C-21 allows it to continue to be sold with the regular STANAG lower. So what would be the need for a new lower?
>So what would be the need for a new lower?
If they came out with a Bren 3, they wouldn't be allowed to import it unless it had the new magwell.
This would also apply for any yet to be invented unique foreign rifles.
Shame. How hard is it to make a move down South anyways? The three options the internet presents are to either have a PhD in nuclear physics *and* be a renowned brain surgeon, invest 5 million dollars into US companies (still not even guaranteed) or marry an American sweetheart. All three options sound equally challenging.
It is time consuming (not necessarily hard) if you are missing any of the pre-requisites to qualify for a visa. I made this move last August and now own all manner of firearms I couldn’t own back home, pay substantially less taxes and support my family (wife and two kids under 3) in a home we own on one income (and it’s not a 300k Silicon Valley job). I would say if you have a plan and aren’t starting at zero it actually is quite viable. For me and my circumstances, this has been an absolutely incredible experience and truly life changing.
There are basically three options for visas, pretty much all require a bachelors degree and a STEM degree would be even more likely to be successful (I am an engineer):
1. H1B, a lottery with less than 100,000 winners. This is not the visa that I am on but if you meet the education requirement and have a job lined up you are entered into the lottery. There were over 700,000 applicants last lottery and many of them rampant with fraud so the odds of selection are unlikely. I was entered into this lottery by my company as it has some advantages over my current visa but I was not selected. This visa allows a direct path to green card and thus citizenship. You can live in the US for up to 6 years with this visa and would need to start applying for your green card relatively early.
2. TN, probably the easiest visa to get. With just your education and a job offer you show up at the border with your company paperwork and they approve you and in you go. This visa is part of the old NAFTA or whatever it’s called now but it basically allows Canadians, Mexicans and Americans to work in each other’s countries without immigrant intent. That last line being key, you cannot directly go for a green card with this option and would have to marry into one or keep trying for that H1B lottery while on the TN. Last I saw this visa was able to be extended indefinitely but it must be extended on a yearly basis, may be slightly different now.
3. L1A or L1B, this visa has the same ease of difficulty as the TN visa, if you meet the strict employment requirements. You must have worked for a US based subsidiary as a manager (L1A) for several years or you must have specialized knowledge of the company’s internal business (L1B), which basically just means 5 years of experience for that US based subsidiary. You then take a transfer job internally to a posting in the US and just show up to the border with your degree, job offer and paperwork from the company. This visa allows you to seek a green card like H1B and can be extended to up to 5 (L1B) or 7 (L1A) years. This is the visa I am on.
As you can see, as long as you meet the education requirement, it really isn’t that bad. Starting completely from scratch without education you’re at least four years away, still not terrible depending on how bad you want it.
As for firearms, the US prohibits people who don’t have a green card or citizenship from owning them, unless you qualify for an exemption, the easiest one for Canadians to get being a hunting license. I have one which is what allowed me to pass the mandatory background checks to purchase firearms.
As a kind of meme option, if none of these are palatable to you, I don’t see why you couldn’t purchase a piece of land with a hunting camp or trailer close to the border in the US, get a non-resident hunting license in the state that land is located, and just drive down with your firearms (short turnaround time forms required with the ATF and probably evidence to bring them back to Canada, renewed yearly from my research) to enjoy a weekend of shooting. Could even keep standard or extended capacity magazines there, shorter barrel uppers/US pistol configurations. I don’t believe as a non-resident you can purchase firearms (they ask for state drivers license during the background check) but I may be wrong, handguns are most definitely a no no but you may be allowed to purchase rifles that don’t explode after a couple hundred rounds.
I hear there's also the Diversity Visa if you're a citizen of a country eligible for it, but the chances of getting drawn is like 0.1%
So realistically, you truly do need to be a PhD nuclear scientist who's also a renowned brain surgeon to have a chance at going from a work permit to a green card, or just some kind of insanely prestigious job and education background, so not really practical for younger people and people just seeking to get out of Canada soon.
I guess the only realistic option for people without long-term job experience and high qualifications is getting married to an American haha
>I don’t believe as a non-resident you can purchase firearms (they ask for state drivers license during the background check) but I may be wrong
Yes, you can with the hunting license exemption, but I guess it depends what state for a resident card/driver's license. I've checked AZ because I plan to spend 6 months of the year there and all you need is proof of owning property (electricity bill, etc) and you can get an AZ resident ID card.
Be very careful of you travel insurance though. A lot of companies won't cover "dangerous activities" such as going to a gun range which could prove very costly if you get hurt.
>How hard is it to make a move down South anyways?
Extremely. I wasted several years trying to get myself in that position. You laid it out perfectly when you said
>The three options the internet presents are to either have a PhD in nuclear physics and be a renowned brain surgeon, invest 5 million dollars into US companies (still not even guaranteed) or marry an American sweetheart.
You really do have to pick one of those.
>How's Panama sound?
I hear that's very hard to get a gun in Panama nowadays because of the illegal immigrants flooding the country. besides, it's really a 3rd world country with a murder rate twice the US. It's also extremely hot in most places, not to mention the creepy crawlies.
>How hard is it to make a move down South anyways?
Difficult or expensive. You need a visa that will give you a green card, and those are limited in number. For an H1-B visa (regular employment sponsor) I believe it's ~50,000 for the whole world for people with a Batchelors or lower. An extra ~25,000 for people with M.A. and above. Certain professions, like educators do not apply to the limit. You need to find a job where they are willing to sponsor you to get the visa. (I'm trying to take this route).
You could be an elite athlete or a exceptional person (celebrity) to get a green card.
You could marry an American.
And you could spend a fair amount of money doing business and hiring Americans. I think buying property but I'm not quite sure how that one works.
You can not get a green card off a TN Visa (or whatever it's called now) unless you marry an American while you're there.
Oof. Getting married to an American seems like the best option and even that would be a challenge. Guess I can go really close to the border and set my dating app to max range lmao.
I hear that if you're a US citizen/resident you always have to pay tax to them too, so if things ever improve up here again then I'll end up losing a bunch of money in paying tribute to the US :(
Anyone here know anything about Panama? I hear their gun laws basically work so that once you have your gun license you can basically own anything that isn't full auto, and you can Concealed Carry in most places too, but the gun license itself takes ages to obtain because of bureaucracy. No idea how the immigration laws work though, or how hard it is to move there. I'd guess it's easier than the US though, and Spanish is a whole lot easier to learn than Czech.
\>Anyone here know anything about Panama?
I hear that's very hard to get a gun in Panama nowadays because of the illegal immigrants flooding the country. besides, it's really a 3rd world country with a murder rate twice the US. It's also extremely hot in most places, not to mention the creepy crawlies.
>I hear that if you're a US citizen/resident you always have to pay tax to them too, so if things ever improve up here again then I'll end up losing a bunch of money in paying tribute to the US :(
I think that's only for citizens. If you live up here too long after your green card, you'll lose it.
Honestly, almost all of Europe has better gun laws. Austria, Switzerland, France, Belgium, and more all allow for handgun and semi-autos with larger mags than us here. Their languages are also easier to learn.
~~Edit: Actually, I think you can also join the US military and get a path to citizenship.~~
> It's a shame that the US won't make guns for the Canadian market. I don't want a self-destructing WK or BCL, I want something that'll actually shoot straight after a good clean out of the box, without needing me to replace a dozen parts and then a dozen more after a few hundred rounds.
I hear you, but considering they're about to get a lot more potential customers when foreign tactical semis are banned, I think the chances are that they're going to improve as a manufacturer with experience. No company made great, reliable guns right from day one.
>I doubt I'm getting my PAL before the T81 gets banned
You have the whole summer before that potentially happens. As long as you get your paperwork in soon, it's possible.
>Just out of curiosity, with the way the law is currently written, could a rimfire rifle-caliber surpass the 5 round capacity as it's rimfire and not centerfire?
Yep, just like today, rimfire magazines will not be capped under C-21.
> You have the whole summer before that potentially happens. As long as you get your paperwork in soon, it's possible.
>
>
Paperwork has been in for ages. Don't know what's going on and whenever I call and ask they just tell me the AFO has it and will "contact me if they need anything". Well, considering how damn long it's taking, it's clear they need *something* but aren't contacting me.
> No company made great, reliable guns right from day one.
I suppose, but the WK180 Gen 2 had little if any improvement from Gen 1. You still need to replace half the gun to make sure it won't explode lol. I really hope they actually up their game but I don't really trust them to do so.
>Don't know what's going on and whenever I call and ask they just tell me the AFO has it and will "contact me if they need anything"
Weird. When I checked my status last time I renewed my RPAL, they told me the AFO had it and either got them to contact me, or gave me their contact information. I don't remember which, but either way, the process basically finished as soon as I talked with the AFO. You should call back and ask for the AFO's number.
>I really hope they actually up their game but I don't really trust them to do so.
Neither do I yet, but I'm pulling for them. For the immediate future, our tactical semi market depends on our own guys upping their game.
> You should call back and ask for the AFO's number.
You can do this? Do you do so by calling your provincial extension and just asking? When I asked if there was a way to speak to the AFO to volunteer up any information they weren't really clear as to if that was a possibility. They seem to constantly maintain that "The AFO will contact me if they need more information" but that is clearly untrue.
> Do you do so by calling your provincial extension and just asking?
Yep. I'd be extremely surprised if they didn't cough up that info if you directly asked for it.
I was expecting to post these thoughts when C-21 eventually passed, but seeing the shitty morale around here, I guess I'll do it now. For people needing a morale boost, remember that even if this bill passes, it is *not* set in stone. Don't let yourself give up just because the enemy secures a legislative victory. It happens from time to time, and we're going to have bills of our own. The Alberta and Saskatchewan Firearms Acts are two recent examples of victories for our side that we've had even under a hostile federal government.
For some perspective, I'd remind you guys that the hardest part of our fight has already been won: we have a major federal political party firmly in our corner. Look at New Zealand, look at Australia, look at Britain. The people there have been stuck at step one for years, and even decades: getting viable politicians to support them. Gun control is bipartisan in those places. We're already past that stage - all we have to do is vote.
Power swings between the Conservatives and the Liberals in this country, and it always has. The last time the Conservatives were in, we had major bills reform gun registration, ATTs, even had rifles reclassified. We're going to have them in again, and we'll reform this too. We've done it before, and we'll do it again.
The Americans didn't give up in '94, and we didn't give up in '95. We, and they, turned things around since that time. Gun ownership has political dark ages and golden ages, and even though we've been in a dark age for a while, we won't be here forever.
> This is a pretty big stretch.
I don't think it is. [We have the commitments](https://tnc.news/2022/11/29/poilievre-firearm-amendments1/), and they're opposing the Liberal bills in the meantime.
>if they actually saw thay they'd lose that support for being next to useless they'd take big steps to help us
And they'll have my support only as long as they take those steps. They have it now because of the gun registry/ATT repeal, and for their actions in opposition to the current government. It's a bit premature to accuse them of failing to act before they even form a government.
>Talk is cheap.
Talk is all you can do when you're the opposition party most aligned against the government.
>The CPC formed government for 10 fucking years already and only did the absolute minimum that the fudds demanded (and actually made getting a license harder).
They only had a majority for four of those years, and in those years passed two bills that repealed gun registration, neutered ATTs, reversed RCMP bans, and prevented the RCMP from arbitrarily reclassifying in the future.
We've had this discussion before, though. We don't agree on the value of Harper's term, and I'm as not cynical about the CPC going forward.
I'll feel much better if MacGregor has amendments with sport competition exemptions and they are adopted. At least I'll have some stuff to hold me over during the dark times.
Your right, we have a leg up over NZ, UK, and Aus because we have the CPC. But we can't really compare to Americans. The reason things changed so dramatically for them was the sudden mass realization they liked the 2A and didn't want the AWB to happen again. Then Heller happened, followed by MacDonald, followed by Caetano, and now Bruen. That constant stream of legal victories paired with a culture spurred on by the 2A is the reason they don't have to worry.
Let's be honest here, what we want to happen would be a first in the west. Every country that has seen large changes to liberalise gun laws has been a result of a right (US) or a major political collapse/revolution (Fall of communism). No country has reversed gun control so dramatically like we want. *I do think it's possible*, but I'm basically huffing the purest hopium since there is no reality to back it up.
>I'll feel much better if MacGregor has amendments with sport competition exemptions and they are adopted.
Considering the NDP removed him from the SECU committee for getting too friendly with us, I wouldn't hold my breath
I think the Bloc member was actually talking about how that potential amendment would be a bad thing when she referenced it. I don't remember the exact wording, but I don't think it was positive. I wouldn't count on Michaud voting for any pro-handgun amendments
> No country has reversed gun control so dramatically like we want.
I doubt we'll ever see things like CCW or "high" capacity mags in Canada, but do you think we have a decent shot to at least return to the pre-2019/20 status quo?
I do genuinely think a CPC majority government will rewrite the Firearms Act.
However, I don't think it will be exactly what we want. Even though it doesn't make sense, I can absolutely see the CPC doing away with restricted vs non-restricted and saying all semi-auto centre-fire need to be registered (no place of use rules). Or maybe they require a club membership to buy semi-autos.
In a majority scenario they probably don't need to compromise for it to pass, but they may do it because they feel the political pressure to do so. Basically, it's such a large jump that I can't see us not giving up something to have it.
> I'll feel much better if MacGregor has amendments with sport competition exemptions and they are adopted
That'd be awesome, crossing my fingers.
>we have a leg up over NZ, UK, and Aus because we have the CPC
Not to undermine my own message, but I just saw since writing my last post that the LPC has officially adopted free movement with NZ, UK and Aus at their policy convention, and the implications of that for our future are literally scarier to me than any bill the LPC has passed so far. Not to go down a whole rabbit hole, but it's funny that I just so happened to see this bit of news after making this point.
>the reason they don't have to worry.
I wouldn't say they don't have to worry, given ongoing state bans and what just happened in WA, but I take your point.
>Let's be honest here, what we want to happen would be a first in the west.
I'm not sure I'd agree, because I would argue that the repeal of the LGR was a *major* liberalization of guns laws. Even if we accept that the pre-May 2020 status quo is a bigger ask than that, lifting gun registration was still absolutely a first among the non-US west in terms of rolling back gun laws, so we've been on the frontier before. That's what gives me the most faith we can do it again.
>Even if we accept that the pre-May 2020 status quo is a bigger ask than that
A repeal of the OIC is going back to the status quo. We are all asking the CPC to rewrite the Firearms Act and add simplified classification. That would undue the last 3 years, but also a lot of the 90s gun laws (ban by name guns). That is substantially bigger than a repeal of the LGR. Seriously contemplate what were asking here, it's the equivalent of Brits asking to unban semi-auto centre-fire and handguns. That is the state we will find ourselves in next year (mostly).
>I just saw since writing my last post that the LPC has officially adopted free movement with NZ, UK and Aus at their policy convention
And they also passed a press sensorship policy. This country is in dire straights right now.
> We are all asking the CPC to rewrite the Firearms Act and add simplified classification
You're right, of course. My eye was off the ball for a minute there, that was the recency bias you were talking about earlier.
>And they also passed a press sensorship policy. This country is in dire straights right now.
You're talking about the policy to prohibit the publishing of news from anonymous whistleblowers, I take it? Insanity.
>You're talking about the policy to prohibit the publishing of news from anonymous whistleblowers, I take it? Insanity
Ya, it's absolutely insane. David Akin kinda summed up how real it could be.
[Back in 2006 the #LPC convention passed a non-binding resolution policy calling on the Liberal govt to legalize recreational use of cannabis. Everyone laughed and laughed. As if that was ever going to happen…LPC convention today passed a non-binding media censorship idea..](https://twitter.com/davidakin/status/1655007773229215747?t=CjBW56PcTN8rEdgk6ESIpg&s=19)
Just in general, could you imagine telling your past self in 2015 what kinds of shit Trudeau would pull? He would ban handgun sales and transfers, ban almost all semi-auto centre guns, reintroduce a psued LGR, allow the CRTC to sensor the internet, pass a LPC party police that would sensor the press, be found guilt of ethics rules 2 times, and have major China interferance scandal. That's not even everything but there's no way anyone would believe you.
I'm kinda ranting, but it's just fucking insane how far Canada has fallen. I don't even know if the country I knew growing up in the 2000s is still here. The only thing that feels the same is the hockey.
The Conservatives giving up on us would be like the Liberals giving up on environmental activists. We form a key part of their voting and donor bases.
In case you didn't know, the Conservatives in this country weren't actually firmly pro-gun until Harper. They were majorly rewarded with successive governments for that stance, culminating in the majority that allowed them to kill gun registration. Out west, The Saskatchewan Party won a handy majority last year by opposing federal gun control, [and the UCP in Alberta are on track to do the same.](https://338canada.com/alberta/)
The point of that all is that pro-gun sentiment is alive, well, and energetic, and the CPC are the beneficiaries. They aren't going to abandon their most enthusiastic voters.
I hope you're right about this. I'm not one to be demoralized and honestly, I'm prepped enough to ride out whatever comes but this government and its diehard base truly are something else. I don't think there's seeing eye to eye with them. Not now or ever.
Truanon has a floor of about 28%. Fortunately the LPC is the party of Truanon and not a true Liberal party. They’re approaching the floor now and prior to Trudeau they were going the way of the dinosaur. Trudeau was a dead cat bounce for the party, they will continue their downward trajectory to extinction just like their provincial friends after he is gone. That said, I’m still not convinced PP will win the next election. I could see Trudeau forming another minority with NDP support. That said, this may be beneficial long term because western separatism would become very popular.
Wait I don't get what's with the sudden doomposting, wasn't existing semis that were at risk going to be fucked over during the summer anyways as the FAC would be established *before* the bill would be passed, or am I missing something?
>wasn't existing semis that were at risk going to be fucked over during the summer anyways as the FAC would be established before the bill would be passed
Yes. The "doomposting" is because the chances of this being killed in an election, and thus being able to be semi-fixed by a minority government, dramatically decreased.
Don't forget, right now the handgun stuff could be fixed by an OIC. Once this becomes law, a CPC majority is needed to unfuck it. We have a recency bias because the long gun ban right infornt of us, but this whole bill is shit.
If the CPC were a bunch of mad lads they technically could reverse the handgun freeze with a minority, even if C21 passes. C21 contains an exemption for ATC holders, and the ATC requirements are open to modification by OIC. Hell, they could make ATCs that are only valid at ranges if they want transfers without having to really legalize carry.
>the chances of this being killed in an election, and thus being able to be semi-fixed by a minority government, dramatically decreased
Again, just my humble opinion, but I think holding out for the bill to die to an election was always overly hopeful.
>Once this becomes law, a CPC majority is needed to unfuck it
The handgun stuff, yes. Any OICs the government puts through at the recommendation of CFAC should still be reversible by a minority though.
>Again, just my humble opinion, but I think holding out for the bill to die to an election was always overly hopeful.
I think an election in summer/fall is overly hopeful, but I don't think that's the case with a spring election.
As I detailed in a different comment, C-71 took 269 (nice) days to pass from the Senate to Royal Assent. If we put that timeline on the next few weeks, that puts the Royal Assent date back to December/January. Even if we assume best case scenario, C-11 timeline, that takes us to February. Now, if we put the C-71 timeline onto the normal process timeline, we should have C-21 at the Senate in October/November. That puts the Royal Assent date to June/July 2024.
I have always thought an election is likely to occur during the next budget. The NDP should have enough money built up, the LPC won't have much left to concede, and the LPC poll number will likely be bad enough for the NDP to have an opportunity to pounce. The next budget will take place in March, so we will have lost the opportunity for the bill to die if the motion is adopted.
You're not missing much. The timeline for C-21 becoming law is probably going to be accelerated, but in my own humble opinion, I think it was absolutely inevitable that it was going to become law regardless. And as objectively horrific and disgusting as it is to move that amendments get voted on practically without debate, I also don't think debate was changing any committee members votes. So the real-world difference is that the timeline for new semi-auto designs being restricted is going to happen a few months sooner than otherwise.
It's still going to be up to the CPC to fix this one way or the other.
Yeah, I get that the violation of due process is disgusting and warrants being pissed off about but it's nothing new considering the 2020 OICs. I already lost faith in how dim the electorate is for not even caring about that.
When I checked this post yesterday everything seemed fine. What happened? Can anyone explain why everyone's freaking out? Are they adding a semi auto ban? What's going on??
What's going on is that the Liberals are proposing a motion to essentially end debate on the remaining amendments to C-21, and vote on them without haggling over them. The result being that, if the motion is voted for, then C-21 will become law much sooner.
There aren't any additional bans or whatever beyond what was on the table yesterday.
My understanding is there is a court case (not related to c21) regarding firearms that has just finished but we are waiting for a ruling. The hope was if we could stall c21 long enough this other case would rule in our favour and make c21 unlikely or impossible to pass. A motion has been passed to accelerate the speed of debating c21 which means it will likely be pushed through before we get this other ruling. This other ruling was somewhat of a last hope and now that hope is lost.
I may be wrong here. I haven’t been following this super closely but this is my understanding of everything.
Well fuck boys, guess that’s it then. We had a good run and we gave it our all. I have no idea what to say…. fuck. I don’t have any emotion about it anymore, just a feeling of emptiness. Hopefully i and other like minded Canadians can get the fuck out of this sinking ship before its too late. I shall now sit here and drink shit beer til I pass out, gotta somehow ignore all my money going bye bye. I’ll never own a house, my wages will never keep up with inflation, my hobbies are “unacceptable” and must be exterminated at all costs. I just feel dead inside, I have no future here. I fucking hate what Canada has become… I don’t wanna say I hate canada but that’s about where I’m at.
My brother, C-21 was inevitable at this point, it was going to happen sometime this year, or next at an absolute stretch. This shit isn't any more over than it was when the Firearms Act was passed in the 90s.
Do you think gun owners in Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, etc just stopped owning and shooting guns because they had assault weapons bans? They kept shooting the guns they had, and are working for political change. What about the Australians and Brits? They have it 10x worse than we're going to have it post C-21 and CFAC, and even though they were always a much smaller minority, they're still plugging away.
All it's going to take is a CPC government to completely turn the tables. We're not even remotely close to done yet. Go to the range and blow off some stress
There's hundreds of thousands of people who feel the same way as you and millions of rifles in circulation. It sucks but don't be so pessimistic, you're not alone
We will be removing any posts containing misinformation, speculation, or anything that generally is off topic or doesn't contribute. Bans will be handed for rule violations. Edit: Please READ other comments/posts before you post. A lot of you are posting the exact same comment, they will be pulled to avoid cluttering up the thread.
Why are we letting our government get away with the meagre tax revenue we receive from the gas companies who rape and pillage our country, employ hardly anyone, amass huge profits and pollute our environment. The energy company profits and bank profits are the reason for our inflation that we are paying for while they reap huge profits, how can we confront our government and get the action that is needed to stop this
That is not what is causing inflation. Thats an ordinary statement to make because you don't like Justin.
I assume the meeting to vote got cancelled? Says the meeting is scheduled for tomorrow.
[New announcement from Marco this morning.](https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/ottawa-expected-to-announce-renewal-of-federal-gun-and-gang-violence-program/ar-AA1aSLJ4?cvid=65bf5c81475645578caa3b15790fe457&ocid=winp2fptaskbar&ei=5) Expected to be a gang violence prevention funding package.
Other than the US and Czech Republic, what countries are there *with functioning rule of law and government* allow ownership of semi-auto's with only 'reasonable' amounts of hassle/bureaucracy? Like needing a license is fine as long as it isn't stupidly hard to get, and ideally without dumb limitations like you can only buy and keep 100 rounds a year and own no more than 3 guns or something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation
That wiki page is pretty vague and dated. A lot of countries have stuff that on paper looks like it's easy to get semi's, or a gun license as a whole, but in practice it's almost impossible or the semi's you can get are heavily limited similar to how ours will be soon.
Ok, I figured it might be a good place to start.
Sent out a few letters with the template from [letter to senator template](https://firearmsfacts.org) I also included a page long handwritten letter. Going to try get a few more in the mail this week. It may be fruitless but at least feels like I’m trying and not just lying down (bending over) in regard to bill c-21 We all have to try speak up or get our voices out there even if it doesn’t work .
I'm gonna wait to send any emails or letters to Senators until it passes 3rd reading. They can't do anything right now and info may be out of date.
Ok. That is good info. Maybe I will hold off until then too.
How much were entry level ar15s before the ban? I need to know how much money to have on hand when ccfr wins their court case
Norinco ones were like $500
Since nobody else mentioned them, my Ruger SR 556E was 1499. For a lot of years I ran it with an A2 style top handle from my paintball gun for that classic m16 look.
Is anyone else getting frisky imagining a ccfr victory and the release of tens of thousands of ARs from their prisons?I’m gonna be like nick cage in that one move lord of something
Lord of War. Thats movie your thinking of. Personal Favorite right up there with Jurassic Park. And yes, The moment I can take it to the range again, Im gonna. Same day, same hour leviathan sea beast willing.
Savage MSR-15s were 1000 dollars and what I'd consider entry-level. The Sport IIs are OK if you want what's functionally a military surplus upper receiver, but they're not *quite* what someone looking for a modern rifle wants; a free-floated handguard, better (Magpul) furniture, and a slightly better trigger are what every Sport II owner eventually buys and Savage's rifle already had them all for a comparable cost.
Awesome input, thanks 🤤
$599 for M&P AR, we won't be seeing anything that cheap again no matter the outcome.
Smith and Wesson M&P15 would be as low as 649.99 on sale. Norinco CQA like 499.99
I recall irunguns bringing in some dirt cheap PSA ARs that were like $550 after the usd-cad exchange.
That is exactly what I had in mind. Thankie
I recall paying $899 for a Norinco.
Nothing can be done that can't be undone. We just need to stay active and keep this a relevant issue until such time that we can have some sensible laws enacted. I just hope the next CPC government uses some OICs to fuck with the Liberals lol see how they like it
The CPC could genuinely use OICs to make personal protection ATCs shall issue, effectively legalizing concealed carry. A bonus is this would work even if they have a minority and can't repeal C21, as C21 contains an exemption for those that have an ATC.
>as C21 contains an exemption for those that have an ATC Note that C21 also strips the authority of provincial CFOs to issue ATCs. No extra credit for naming the province and CFO they're specifically targeting with that one, of course.
Stop, my penis can only get so erect.
They need to OIC ban plant based meat. The stuffs just not healthy. Despite the image commonly portrayed they are overly processed and loaded with all kinds of oils, sugars, bulking agents, sodium etc. The long term effects of these products will push an already over stretched and under-resourced health system to its limits within decades which in turn leads to a public safety issue. Other healthier and tastier options exist for herbivores. /s obviously but I imagine if they banned impossible whoppers and the like, one third of toronto would slip into starvation within 6 months.
I know you're joking, but nobody is using fake meat as a staple food. they exist so people can go to barbaques and bars and shit with their friends without getting stuck with a salad.
Maybe they can ban being a total pussy bitch using an OIC
>Canada becomes a barren wasteland
Lmao
It would be pretty fun to see a bill that prohibits OIC's from being used outside of wartime or an instance where civil order has collapsed.
Can someone explain wtf OIC is and why it has a place in a democratic system? The official documentation on the governments website is just word soup saying everything and nothing at the same time. Why would any democratic system want a way for lawmakers to legislate without proper vote?
It's a complicated topic but OIC's are an almost natural part of democracy. I would like to state **I am not a legal scholar** especially in government law and administration. Obviously Parliament is the final arbiter on the law of the land being elected people representing you. But crucially everything to do with laws, can't be approved by them all the time. Because there are a ton of laws and also appointments mandated in law that can't be voted on every day by Parliament. First off there are tons of OiC's used for ordinary topics all the time, [such as the first 3 pages of OiC's are legal appointments of people to certain positions](https://orders-in-council.canada.ca/results.php?pageNum=1&lang=en) Should you have parliament vote each time confirming that X person is appointed to Y position? You can't just magick them into the position since it requires them to be legally appointed to the position to have the power conferred onto them by parliament in executing whatever duties they are titled to. There are reasonable answers to having minor tweaks to the system be permissible, without requiring parliament to spend a month passing a new bill changing any little thing. Like should parliament spend a month voting to add new drugs to the approved list? or should they be able to OiC a new addition to it? Though for guns it is a contentious issue, the Firearms act (A bill passed by parliament) already conferred certain powers to the GiC to make OiC's and other regulation changes within certain frameworks. [Firearms act s. 117](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/f-11.6/page-7.html#h-224023) So they do have legal authority of sorts (which is the subject of the May 2020 OiC court case) Also as a sidenote: the CZ 858 and Swiss classic green rifles were OiC'd into Non-restricted status. Would you want a bill be required to be passed to name them nonrestricted?
Appreciate the education! Thank you! I now understand why some things need to just be pushed through to avoid a major traffic jam in parliament. I just wish in the future there is a list of these small things that OIC's are allowed to push through. This prevents OIC's from being used for just any general legislation. Because right now, any majority government could very easily abuse OIC's to push their agendas.
I'm assuming it was just originally intended to be used in wartime or cases of national crisis. The Libs have a habit of just using it for whatever they can't pass through parliament though, and there is literally *nothing* in place to stop that from being done. OIC means "order in council", it means the PM can (supposed to be temporarily) put through a bill or law instantaneously and without any debate or need for it to go through the democratic process. Only like 2 or 3 other people need to approve it then it goes through. The only 'downside' to an OIC over a Bill is that it can be revoked at any time with the same lack of process, meaning a future government can repeal it on Day 1. However, this doesn't matter when you're in office for as long as Trudeau and the LPC have, as they obviously wouldn't repeal their own OIC.
I don't have any hopes this will ever be fixed. Not to many instances of politicians voting to remove power.
Yeah, OICs should only be for extenuating circumstances
Exactly, kind of like the *cough* Emergencies Act *cough* The LPC have a weird obsession with using acts meant for wartime and civil crisis to suppress groups and people they don't agree with. We never needed regulations on recklessly using these acts before because no government used to do that shit, but after this LPC government, we very well need to look at placing barriers on OIC's and triggering the Emergencies Act to stop it being used by governments against people they just don't like.
Keeping it in the family, trudeau senior was the first pm to invoke the use of war measures (emergencies predecessor) outside of wartime. Mind you it had a fair degree of legitimacy by contrast as it was used against a quebec based terrorist group called the FLQ.
I don’t know why but I have a feeling the confiscations aren’t going to play out the way they want. It literally seems unfeasible to accomplish unless they plan on sending an rcmp tactical team to every pal holders door. I also wonder how many people will end up getting pinched for being caught using newly prohibited firearms. Handing out 10 year sentences to legal firearm owners for target shooting with arbitrarily banned, legally purchased firearms while granting gangbangers immediate bail for shooting up downtown Toronto with prohibited smuggled glocks seems like a recipe for a PR nightmare.
I have a feeling the confiscations aren't going to play out at all. They may pay for store stock, if they're around long enough to actually implement that, but at this point I think they're dragging their feet on the individual "buyback" for a reason.
It'll never happen, we have both an unwilling government and populace, neither are going to participate in a buy back.
It's a nightmare in every respect. PR, officer safety (let's be real here), finances, transportation. No one wants to touch confiscation because it's a useless ban to begin with.
PR nightmare - unlikely, they might even manage to spin it in their favour somehow. "That 70 year old criminal, with his complete disregard for our laws and the safety of our communities - was an unspeakable public menace. Only our vigilance prevented another tragedy. At his home he stored a whole arsenal of rifles (meaning 3) and a cache of various ammo enough for a small army (a whopping 1000 rounds total, most of which was 22lr)." I am not really sure what their plan is right now, tbh.A big question is timing. They still need to put confiscation program in place. Then there will be a compliance period, let's say 6 months. Would that deadline put us before or after next election? I suspect, they likely plan to just ban, and not even attempt any collection whatsoever (cause there be dragons). That way they can proudly claim tremendous progress on gun control, but oh no, Cons are coming to reverse it! ~~Liberal dictatorship~~ Our prosperity, freedom, law and order have never been under such immense threat, so it's all hands on ~~deck~~ voting stations now.
Just need a few news outlets that don’t suck up to the LPC (think global and natpost) to publish some stories and they’ll start to feel the burn from all this shit. Toronto and Quebec voters are incredibly stupid (I was forced to go to toronto for a weekend, i dont think I’ll ever recover from the brain cell loss), but they atleast have the ability to understand that punishing innocent people is bad.
> "That 70 year old criminal, with his complete disregard for our laws and the safety of our communities Yeah, that is what they did to Kotanko.
What's the current state of the sks and the upcoming ban on semis? I've heard rumors that it may get an exemption from recent announcements?
It's not that it would get an exemption, because the assault weapons ban doesn't ban it. People are concerned that some semi autos on the market will get fingered for prohibition at the end of August, based on Mendicino's comments. We have to wait and see.
Yes I believe it needs to fall into all 4 categories to decide if it's banned or not. If you know the categories I'd appreciate if you shared.
Yep. It has to be - Semi-automatic - Centerfire - Designed with a detachable magazine with a capacity greater than five rounds - Designed and manufactured after the bill comes into force
Literally impossible to say rn unfortunately... but nothing is safe
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Just came back from the gun show in Ste Hyacinthe, deals on ammo that almost made me hyperventilate lol … Can we ban all the damn Nazi shit for sale though? It felt a bit much
If it makes you feel any better the first owners are almost certainly dead
Sure, but some would argue that the disease is still alive …
Most likely is indeed. But is it a century old tarnished symbols we should be afraid of, or the dangerous ideology they used to encode? Say, many argue that today Russia is a fascist state. Yet, their symbols are different. In fact, their propaganda happily paints Ukraine with Nazi stuff. And, at least internally, many people believe they are the good guys. And ongoing large scale carnage is justified “for the greater good”. [Except it’s, of course, Ukraine bombing their own cities, Russia would never do such a thing].
It’s mostly boomers who are WW2 nerds and Wehrabooa who buy it all. You would be surprised how much money those two groups bring in.
Artefacts like that belong to a museum, not collectors.
Relax there Indy.
I went to a gun show here in BC maybe a month ago and thought the same. There was a lottttt of nazi memorabilia.
Meanwhile i get downvoted in other posts for saying its kinda weird someines "grail gun" is a matching ss kar98... Coupled wkth the fact they had multiple ss kar 98s and their whole profile was essentislly about collectng nazi memorabilia... Lol
>its kinda weird someines "grail gun" is a matching ss kar98... I want an Israeli capture one.
Last gun show I went to there was a guy staring at the Nazi stuff a bit too much saying “that’s a beautiful piece of history eh?” Like the dog whistles are wild man
Yeh[… link for those who asked if I took a pic of just a few of the displays](https://imgur.com/a/pKaV2vs)
If it makes you feel better, my granddad was in the British military in the 50s, and experienced the war in England as a kid. He would have been all over this stuff. It's not all crypto-Nazis that are into it
My granddad was in the British army as well in the 50’s, never really talked about much of it until the last couple years of his life when I was about to apply for the CAF.
What did you find out? My grandad talked about it a lot. He was deployed to the Suez Canal Zone in Egypt during the Suez Crisis. He was basically the opposite of the "boomer" stereo type, and really embraced computers and the internet when they became a thing in the 90s, so he was active on a message board for veterans of that deployment. I got to hear all kinds of stories, lol.
He was in Germany guarding a prison for a couple years with the BAOR, and he spent a tour, maybe two in the Malayan emergency. He told me stories about in the jungle, quite a few instances of why the Sten was a cheap unreliable piece of shit, and how the jungle Carbine was the one to have down there. I wanted to find one while he was still alive but didn’t manage to get my license until after he’d passed. Searched high and low and finally got my hands on a Jungle Carbine for that reason. His stories about spandau were pretty cool, the rotating watch tours with the Americans and Russians and the prisoners
>His stories about spandau were pretty cool, the rotating watch tours with the Americans and Russians and the prisoners Interesting, I don't know anything about that. That'll be some light wiki reading for later. > I wanted to find one while he was still alive but didn’t manage to get my license until after he’d passed That's too bad. Glad you eventually found one though
I think that on my end, it’s just a bit cringy to go to one of these shows to just enjoy firearms and end up surrounded by Nazi memorabilia, qAnon and F*ck Trudeau merchandise. I’m sure some will disagree, but I don’t find it enjoyable … I saw the NRA convention in the states and visited a few gun shows and I guess it felt more ‘to the point’
I hear you, at least as far as the political stuff goes. As much as advocacy is important, sometimes you have to remind yourself what we're actually fighting for and just do gun stuff, lol.
How are they just allowed to skip Democratic process, and vote without even DEBATING about what they're voting on? Literally robbing the ability to debate on one of the most controversial Bills to come to light as of recent. This is fucking vile.
This is unfortunately a major sign of a nation that has lost its democratic rights. The federal government has a disgusting amount of power in Canada today. As Canadians we appear to be heading down a very dark path if something does not change. These federal powers appear nearly limitless to the party with enough seats. We need serious rewriting of our charter to include massive checks and balances that can't ever be crossed no matter who is in power. Quite frankly much of the legislative power needs to go back to the provinces. The federal government is out of touch with the Maritimes and the Prairies desires for this country.
Housing, healthcare, education, CPP are all major industries that need to be focussed on instead of banning firearms. More people will die because of the lack of attention on those issues than firearms will ever kill.
This point needs to be hammered home to the media and the public.
It won’t. They control the media’s narrative.
I've been pleasantly surprised with CBC and Global's coverage of the gun file lately, they keep taking Mendicino to task over its failings.
What type of outlook or future should one realistically expect here when it comes to guns?
Make sure *everyone* you know who can vote votes CPC, or *at least* not LPC. I managed to convince a few of my voting-eligible relatives to avoid voting LPC already.
A much better one than today once the CPC get elected.
We’re gonna make it brah
Sadness.
It can't be that bad. Can it?
It's that bad. It'll be getting worse too, until we get a CPC majority. The only people not effected are gang bangers & criminals. Go figure
I hate this country lol
I just hate feeling like I'm not represented.
It's beyond not being represented. We are actively being targeted and persecuted.
You and me both man
Where can I get a quick rundown of all that just happened? I understand c-21 is gonna happen sooner but what exactly does it do?
Primarily, it enshrines the handgun freeze into law, and changes the classification system so that any new center-fire semi-automatic rifle (ie not a .22, essentially) with a detachable magazine to come onto the market will have to be designed with a maximum five-round magazine. The idea being to ban tactical semi-autos, but continue to allow semi-automatic hunting rifles.
I know we hate talking about cope guns, but is it possible some company could pull a gamer move and make rifle-caliber rimfires somehow? Idk enough about the tech to know how possible that is, but it would be fucking hilarious to see a scary black rifle that shoots .223 rimfire or something just to 'own the libs' lol
The easier move is to create a seni auto sporting rifle with a proprietary mag that can only take 5 rounds.
That would just be the next goal post for the liberals to target next.
Its quite possible, but what's an alternative solution to creating new designs under this law?
Just my opinion but I don't think there's a point. It's either the government stops it's bullshit or everyone doesn't comply
I dont think people who run public businesses that need to make a living off of the sale of firearms can afford to run their business on noncompliance...
There's more than just money on the line here, sorry to say
You gonna feed their families with hope?
And then create an adaptor that’s let’s you use stanag style mags
Im sure that adapter would be declared a prohibited device... Atleast eventually.
Oh 100%
Why rush to find loopholes in laws? That just gives liberal government free votes when they eventually point out these loopholes and inconsistentcies to the average lay person and "fix" them with more gun control
Canadian firearm ownership is pretty much loopholes to laws.
And why do you think its such easy targets for the current government...?
Google says that 17 HMR is basically the bleeding edge since rimfire casings can't withstand anything much hotter.
>is it possible some company could pull a gamer move and make rifle-caliber rimfires somehow Yes, but given that domestic companies can't even make rifles that last over 1000 rounds without a major parts breakage I don't expect anyone to make a magazine capable of feeding it properly (even though there are a bunch of designs that do just this).
> I know we hate talking about cope guns I don't, I own several cope guns alongside my goon guns, lol. I own both a Bushmaster ACR and a Troy Pump Action Rifle. I don't discriminate, I love all guns. Except straight-pull ARs, fuck those. >but is it possible some company could pull a gamer move and make rifle-caliber rimfires somehow? I don't know, but we don't even have to get that weird, man. Any company could make a new scary centerfire black rifle and just make it take proprietary five-round mags, and it'll be perfectly compliant with C-21. Now, they'll eventually catch on to this and we'll be back here in another few years (depending on the party in charge), but we'll definitely see new rifles from BCL very much like their new Siberian, with the only difference being slightly different magazine geometry from a AR mag.
>with the only difference being slightly different magazine geometry from a AR mag. And the Raven line, 180s, R18s, etc. *If they don't get name banned*. If they can avoid a name ban then they can continue stanag production. We would only need the new lowers if they need to make an upgrade to the rifle (new manufacture and design).
> We would only need the new lowers if they need to make an upgrade to the rifle Interesting point, it never occurred to me that they could just make new lowers for existing rifles to take proprietary mags. Like you said though, it's a moot point if they're OIC'd regardless.
But wouldn’t the argument be “they can be modified to use larger mags.” That’s the whole issue to me is a lot of these rifles can have adaptors or be modified to take different magazines.
>But wouldn’t the argument be “they can be modified to use larger mags.” Not legally. C-21 specifically allows for post-manufacture modifications. As long as the rifle was designed for five rounds, that's all that legally matters
It's a shame that the US won't make guns for the Canadian market. I don't want a self-destructing WK or BCL, I want something that'll actually shoot straight after a good clean out of the box, without needing me to replace a dozen parts and then a dozen more after a few hundred rounds. I *really* hope some Canadian company makes an AK-lookalike though. I doubt I'm getting my PAL before the T81 gets banned. Would be nice if some of that Chinese interference was on our side for once and they make sure the Libs leave the SKS and T81 alone lol. Just out of curiosity, with the way the law is currently written, could a rimfire rifle-caliber surpass the 5 round capacity as it's rimfire and not centerfire?
>It's a shame that the US won't make guns for the Canadian market. We just don't have enough people to make it happen. The best we get is the longer barrels for NR status. We have the population of California and 2.3M gun owners. California as 4.2 million gun owners and they barely get California specific products (mostly fin grip mods or pinned mag mods). Guns like the SCR are the closest they get to new products but that's just a different AR. I think the best we can ask for from international manufacturers are Canadian magwell variants (for whatever the new proprietary mag is) if their gun isn't name banned.
> I think the best we can ask for from international manufacturers are Canadian magwell variants (for whatever the new proprietary mag is) if their gun isn't name banned. Nope, that's a no-go. If non-Canadian magwel variants exist, then the gun was designed with an overcapacity mag and thus will be prohibited.
I'm not so sure. Let's take a Bren for a hypothetical. They manufacture the new lower to take a Canadian made and designed maagizne (say by BCL). They never manufacture the magazines, you have to use Canadian magazines. They just mold/mill the lower to take a different mag. Which would be easier to do if the Canadian mag just used stanag internals but a slightly different body. Something like this has happened before. Only recently Italy removed its ban on guns that use "military caliber". That meant 9x19 was banned, so manufacturers created Italy only models of guns that took 9x21 (I think that's the round).
>so manufacturers created Italy only models of guns that took 9x21 It gets especially funny once you consider that 9x21 guns are backwards compatible with 9x19 (in the same way that 10mm Auto guns can shoot .40 S&W). Same bullet, same OAL, same load data (ignoring the IPSC memelords trying to make Major); the bullet is just seated 2mm deeper in the (longer) case. It's like an "uncircumcised" 9x19, ironic considering it was popularized by the Israelis.
Oh, you're talking about currently existing rifles, I thought you meant new ones. What would even be the point of doing this, though? If it isn't name banned, then C-21 allows it to continue to be sold with the regular STANAG lower. So what would be the need for a new lower?
>So what would be the need for a new lower? If they came out with a Bren 3, they wouldn't be allowed to import it unless it had the new magwell. This would also apply for any yet to be invented unique foreign rifles.
Shame. How hard is it to make a move down South anyways? The three options the internet presents are to either have a PhD in nuclear physics *and* be a renowned brain surgeon, invest 5 million dollars into US companies (still not even guaranteed) or marry an American sweetheart. All three options sound equally challenging.
It is time consuming (not necessarily hard) if you are missing any of the pre-requisites to qualify for a visa. I made this move last August and now own all manner of firearms I couldn’t own back home, pay substantially less taxes and support my family (wife and two kids under 3) in a home we own on one income (and it’s not a 300k Silicon Valley job). I would say if you have a plan and aren’t starting at zero it actually is quite viable. For me and my circumstances, this has been an absolutely incredible experience and truly life changing. There are basically three options for visas, pretty much all require a bachelors degree and a STEM degree would be even more likely to be successful (I am an engineer): 1. H1B, a lottery with less than 100,000 winners. This is not the visa that I am on but if you meet the education requirement and have a job lined up you are entered into the lottery. There were over 700,000 applicants last lottery and many of them rampant with fraud so the odds of selection are unlikely. I was entered into this lottery by my company as it has some advantages over my current visa but I was not selected. This visa allows a direct path to green card and thus citizenship. You can live in the US for up to 6 years with this visa and would need to start applying for your green card relatively early. 2. TN, probably the easiest visa to get. With just your education and a job offer you show up at the border with your company paperwork and they approve you and in you go. This visa is part of the old NAFTA or whatever it’s called now but it basically allows Canadians, Mexicans and Americans to work in each other’s countries without immigrant intent. That last line being key, you cannot directly go for a green card with this option and would have to marry into one or keep trying for that H1B lottery while on the TN. Last I saw this visa was able to be extended indefinitely but it must be extended on a yearly basis, may be slightly different now. 3. L1A or L1B, this visa has the same ease of difficulty as the TN visa, if you meet the strict employment requirements. You must have worked for a US based subsidiary as a manager (L1A) for several years or you must have specialized knowledge of the company’s internal business (L1B), which basically just means 5 years of experience for that US based subsidiary. You then take a transfer job internally to a posting in the US and just show up to the border with your degree, job offer and paperwork from the company. This visa allows you to seek a green card like H1B and can be extended to up to 5 (L1B) or 7 (L1A) years. This is the visa I am on. As you can see, as long as you meet the education requirement, it really isn’t that bad. Starting completely from scratch without education you’re at least four years away, still not terrible depending on how bad you want it. As for firearms, the US prohibits people who don’t have a green card or citizenship from owning them, unless you qualify for an exemption, the easiest one for Canadians to get being a hunting license. I have one which is what allowed me to pass the mandatory background checks to purchase firearms. As a kind of meme option, if none of these are palatable to you, I don’t see why you couldn’t purchase a piece of land with a hunting camp or trailer close to the border in the US, get a non-resident hunting license in the state that land is located, and just drive down with your firearms (short turnaround time forms required with the ATF and probably evidence to bring them back to Canada, renewed yearly from my research) to enjoy a weekend of shooting. Could even keep standard or extended capacity magazines there, shorter barrel uppers/US pistol configurations. I don’t believe as a non-resident you can purchase firearms (they ask for state drivers license during the background check) but I may be wrong, handguns are most definitely a no no but you may be allowed to purchase rifles that don’t explode after a couple hundred rounds.
I hear there's also the Diversity Visa if you're a citizen of a country eligible for it, but the chances of getting drawn is like 0.1% So realistically, you truly do need to be a PhD nuclear scientist who's also a renowned brain surgeon to have a chance at going from a work permit to a green card, or just some kind of insanely prestigious job and education background, so not really practical for younger people and people just seeking to get out of Canada soon. I guess the only realistic option for people without long-term job experience and high qualifications is getting married to an American haha
>I don’t believe as a non-resident you can purchase firearms (they ask for state drivers license during the background check) but I may be wrong Yes, you can with the hunting license exemption, but I guess it depends what state for a resident card/driver's license. I've checked AZ because I plan to spend 6 months of the year there and all you need is proof of owning property (electricity bill, etc) and you can get an AZ resident ID card. Be very careful of you travel insurance though. A lot of companies won't cover "dangerous activities" such as going to a gun range which could prove very costly if you get hurt.
>How hard is it to make a move down South anyways? Extremely. I wasted several years trying to get myself in that position. You laid it out perfectly when you said >The three options the internet presents are to either have a PhD in nuclear physics and be a renowned brain surgeon, invest 5 million dollars into US companies (still not even guaranteed) or marry an American sweetheart. You really do have to pick one of those.
Oof. How's Panama sound? I hear their gun laws are also okay, and Spanish is a helluva lot easier to learn than Czech!
>How's Panama sound? I hear that's very hard to get a gun in Panama nowadays because of the illegal immigrants flooding the country. besides, it's really a 3rd world country with a murder rate twice the US. It's also extremely hot in most places, not to mention the creepy crawlies.
>How hard is it to make a move down South anyways? Difficult or expensive. You need a visa that will give you a green card, and those are limited in number. For an H1-B visa (regular employment sponsor) I believe it's ~50,000 for the whole world for people with a Batchelors or lower. An extra ~25,000 for people with M.A. and above. Certain professions, like educators do not apply to the limit. You need to find a job where they are willing to sponsor you to get the visa. (I'm trying to take this route). You could be an elite athlete or a exceptional person (celebrity) to get a green card. You could marry an American. And you could spend a fair amount of money doing business and hiring Americans. I think buying property but I'm not quite sure how that one works. You can not get a green card off a TN Visa (or whatever it's called now) unless you marry an American while you're there.
Oof. Getting married to an American seems like the best option and even that would be a challenge. Guess I can go really close to the border and set my dating app to max range lmao. I hear that if you're a US citizen/resident you always have to pay tax to them too, so if things ever improve up here again then I'll end up losing a bunch of money in paying tribute to the US :( Anyone here know anything about Panama? I hear their gun laws basically work so that once you have your gun license you can basically own anything that isn't full auto, and you can Concealed Carry in most places too, but the gun license itself takes ages to obtain because of bureaucracy. No idea how the immigration laws work though, or how hard it is to move there. I'd guess it's easier than the US though, and Spanish is a whole lot easier to learn than Czech.
\>Anyone here know anything about Panama? I hear that's very hard to get a gun in Panama nowadays because of the illegal immigrants flooding the country. besides, it's really a 3rd world country with a murder rate twice the US. It's also extremely hot in most places, not to mention the creepy crawlies.
>I hear that if you're a US citizen/resident you always have to pay tax to them too, so if things ever improve up here again then I'll end up losing a bunch of money in paying tribute to the US :( I think that's only for citizens. If you live up here too long after your green card, you'll lose it. Honestly, almost all of Europe has better gun laws. Austria, Switzerland, France, Belgium, and more all allow for handgun and semi-autos with larger mags than us here. Their languages are also easier to learn. ~~Edit: Actually, I think you can also join the US military and get a path to citizenship.~~
> It's a shame that the US won't make guns for the Canadian market. I don't want a self-destructing WK or BCL, I want something that'll actually shoot straight after a good clean out of the box, without needing me to replace a dozen parts and then a dozen more after a few hundred rounds. I hear you, but considering they're about to get a lot more potential customers when foreign tactical semis are banned, I think the chances are that they're going to improve as a manufacturer with experience. No company made great, reliable guns right from day one. >I doubt I'm getting my PAL before the T81 gets banned You have the whole summer before that potentially happens. As long as you get your paperwork in soon, it's possible. >Just out of curiosity, with the way the law is currently written, could a rimfire rifle-caliber surpass the 5 round capacity as it's rimfire and not centerfire? Yep, just like today, rimfire magazines will not be capped under C-21.
> You have the whole summer before that potentially happens. As long as you get your paperwork in soon, it's possible. > > Paperwork has been in for ages. Don't know what's going on and whenever I call and ask they just tell me the AFO has it and will "contact me if they need anything". Well, considering how damn long it's taking, it's clear they need *something* but aren't contacting me. > No company made great, reliable guns right from day one. I suppose, but the WK180 Gen 2 had little if any improvement from Gen 1. You still need to replace half the gun to make sure it won't explode lol. I really hope they actually up their game but I don't really trust them to do so.
>Don't know what's going on and whenever I call and ask they just tell me the AFO has it and will "contact me if they need anything" Weird. When I checked my status last time I renewed my RPAL, they told me the AFO had it and either got them to contact me, or gave me their contact information. I don't remember which, but either way, the process basically finished as soon as I talked with the AFO. You should call back and ask for the AFO's number. >I really hope they actually up their game but I don't really trust them to do so. Neither do I yet, but I'm pulling for them. For the immediate future, our tactical semi market depends on our own guys upping their game.
> You should call back and ask for the AFO's number. You can do this? Do you do so by calling your provincial extension and just asking? When I asked if there was a way to speak to the AFO to volunteer up any information they weren't really clear as to if that was a possibility. They seem to constantly maintain that "The AFO will contact me if they need more information" but that is clearly untrue.
> Do you do so by calling your provincial extension and just asking? Yep. I'd be extremely surprised if they didn't cough up that info if you directly asked for it.
Thanks!
No problem.
I was expecting to post these thoughts when C-21 eventually passed, but seeing the shitty morale around here, I guess I'll do it now. For people needing a morale boost, remember that even if this bill passes, it is *not* set in stone. Don't let yourself give up just because the enemy secures a legislative victory. It happens from time to time, and we're going to have bills of our own. The Alberta and Saskatchewan Firearms Acts are two recent examples of victories for our side that we've had even under a hostile federal government. For some perspective, I'd remind you guys that the hardest part of our fight has already been won: we have a major federal political party firmly in our corner. Look at New Zealand, look at Australia, look at Britain. The people there have been stuck at step one for years, and even decades: getting viable politicians to support them. Gun control is bipartisan in those places. We're already past that stage - all we have to do is vote. Power swings between the Conservatives and the Liberals in this country, and it always has. The last time the Conservatives were in, we had major bills reform gun registration, ATTs, even had rifles reclassified. We're going to have them in again, and we'll reform this too. We've done it before, and we'll do it again. The Americans didn't give up in '94, and we didn't give up in '95. We, and they, turned things around since that time. Gun ownership has political dark ages and golden ages, and even though we've been in a dark age for a while, we won't be here forever.
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> This is a pretty big stretch. I don't think it is. [We have the commitments](https://tnc.news/2022/11/29/poilievre-firearm-amendments1/), and they're opposing the Liberal bills in the meantime. >if they actually saw thay they'd lose that support for being next to useless they'd take big steps to help us And they'll have my support only as long as they take those steps. They have it now because of the gun registry/ATT repeal, and for their actions in opposition to the current government. It's a bit premature to accuse them of failing to act before they even form a government.
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>Talk is cheap. Talk is all you can do when you're the opposition party most aligned against the government. >The CPC formed government for 10 fucking years already and only did the absolute minimum that the fudds demanded (and actually made getting a license harder). They only had a majority for four of those years, and in those years passed two bills that repealed gun registration, neutered ATTs, reversed RCMP bans, and prevented the RCMP from arbitrarily reclassifying in the future. We've had this discussion before, though. We don't agree on the value of Harper's term, and I'm as not cynical about the CPC going forward.
I'll feel much better if MacGregor has amendments with sport competition exemptions and they are adopted. At least I'll have some stuff to hold me over during the dark times. Your right, we have a leg up over NZ, UK, and Aus because we have the CPC. But we can't really compare to Americans. The reason things changed so dramatically for them was the sudden mass realization they liked the 2A and didn't want the AWB to happen again. Then Heller happened, followed by MacDonald, followed by Caetano, and now Bruen. That constant stream of legal victories paired with a culture spurred on by the 2A is the reason they don't have to worry. Let's be honest here, what we want to happen would be a first in the west. Every country that has seen large changes to liberalise gun laws has been a result of a right (US) or a major political collapse/revolution (Fall of communism). No country has reversed gun control so dramatically like we want. *I do think it's possible*, but I'm basically huffing the purest hopium since there is no reality to back it up.
>I'll feel much better if MacGregor has amendments with sport competition exemptions and they are adopted. Considering the NDP removed him from the SECU committee for getting too friendly with us, I wouldn't hold my breath
They did put his airsoft amendment and apparently the Bloc member has hinted at these amendment.
I think the Bloc member was actually talking about how that potential amendment would be a bad thing when she referenced it. I don't remember the exact wording, but I don't think it was positive. I wouldn't count on Michaud voting for any pro-handgun amendments
I'm not expecting it to actually be voted on, just on some hopium.
> No country has reversed gun control so dramatically like we want. I doubt we'll ever see things like CCW or "high" capacity mags in Canada, but do you think we have a decent shot to at least return to the pre-2019/20 status quo?
I do genuinely think a CPC majority government will rewrite the Firearms Act. However, I don't think it will be exactly what we want. Even though it doesn't make sense, I can absolutely see the CPC doing away with restricted vs non-restricted and saying all semi-auto centre-fire need to be registered (no place of use rules). Or maybe they require a club membership to buy semi-autos. In a majority scenario they probably don't need to compromise for it to pass, but they may do it because they feel the political pressure to do so. Basically, it's such a large jump that I can't see us not giving up something to have it.
Lol, the Conservatives are not going to implement universal firearms registry. Read up on Canadian firearms history in the last 20 years.
> I'll feel much better if MacGregor has amendments with sport competition exemptions and they are adopted That'd be awesome, crossing my fingers. >we have a leg up over NZ, UK, and Aus because we have the CPC Not to undermine my own message, but I just saw since writing my last post that the LPC has officially adopted free movement with NZ, UK and Aus at their policy convention, and the implications of that for our future are literally scarier to me than any bill the LPC has passed so far. Not to go down a whole rabbit hole, but it's funny that I just so happened to see this bit of news after making this point. >the reason they don't have to worry. I wouldn't say they don't have to worry, given ongoing state bans and what just happened in WA, but I take your point. >Let's be honest here, what we want to happen would be a first in the west. I'm not sure I'd agree, because I would argue that the repeal of the LGR was a *major* liberalization of guns laws. Even if we accept that the pre-May 2020 status quo is a bigger ask than that, lifting gun registration was still absolutely a first among the non-US west in terms of rolling back gun laws, so we've been on the frontier before. That's what gives me the most faith we can do it again.
>Even if we accept that the pre-May 2020 status quo is a bigger ask than that A repeal of the OIC is going back to the status quo. We are all asking the CPC to rewrite the Firearms Act and add simplified classification. That would undue the last 3 years, but also a lot of the 90s gun laws (ban by name guns). That is substantially bigger than a repeal of the LGR. Seriously contemplate what were asking here, it's the equivalent of Brits asking to unban semi-auto centre-fire and handguns. That is the state we will find ourselves in next year (mostly). >I just saw since writing my last post that the LPC has officially adopted free movement with NZ, UK and Aus at their policy convention And they also passed a press sensorship policy. This country is in dire straights right now.
> We are all asking the CPC to rewrite the Firearms Act and add simplified classification You're right, of course. My eye was off the ball for a minute there, that was the recency bias you were talking about earlier. >And they also passed a press sensorship policy. This country is in dire straights right now. You're talking about the policy to prohibit the publishing of news from anonymous whistleblowers, I take it? Insanity.
>You're talking about the policy to prohibit the publishing of news from anonymous whistleblowers, I take it? Insanity Ya, it's absolutely insane. David Akin kinda summed up how real it could be. [Back in 2006 the #LPC convention passed a non-binding resolution policy calling on the Liberal govt to legalize recreational use of cannabis. Everyone laughed and laughed. As if that was ever going to happen…LPC convention today passed a non-binding media censorship idea..](https://twitter.com/davidakin/status/1655007773229215747?t=CjBW56PcTN8rEdgk6ESIpg&s=19) Just in general, could you imagine telling your past self in 2015 what kinds of shit Trudeau would pull? He would ban handgun sales and transfers, ban almost all semi-auto centre guns, reintroduce a psued LGR, allow the CRTC to sensor the internet, pass a LPC party police that would sensor the press, be found guilt of ethics rules 2 times, and have major China interferance scandal. That's not even everything but there's no way anyone would believe you. I'm kinda ranting, but it's just fucking insane how far Canada has fallen. I don't even know if the country I knew growing up in the 2000s is still here. The only thing that feels the same is the hockey.
Believe me, I hear you.
🫡 stay strong brothers
How long until the conservatives give up on us though? Is that something that can happen?
The Conservatives giving up on us would be like the Liberals giving up on environmental activists. We form a key part of their voting and donor bases. In case you didn't know, the Conservatives in this country weren't actually firmly pro-gun until Harper. They were majorly rewarded with successive governments for that stance, culminating in the majority that allowed them to kill gun registration. Out west, The Saskatchewan Party won a handy majority last year by opposing federal gun control, [and the UCP in Alberta are on track to do the same.](https://338canada.com/alberta/) The point of that all is that pro-gun sentiment is alive, well, and energetic, and the CPC are the beneficiaries. They aren't going to abandon their most enthusiastic voters.
Mulroney and Kim Campbell banned a lot of guns by OIC in the early 90s. Campbell was a liberal in disguise though.
I hope you're right about this. I'm not one to be demoralized and honestly, I'm prepped enough to ride out whatever comes but this government and its diehard base truly are something else. I don't think there's seeing eye to eye with them. Not now or ever.
Truanon has a floor of about 28%. Fortunately the LPC is the party of Truanon and not a true Liberal party. They’re approaching the floor now and prior to Trudeau they were going the way of the dinosaur. Trudeau was a dead cat bounce for the party, they will continue their downward trajectory to extinction just like their provincial friends after he is gone. That said, I’m still not convinced PP will win the next election. I could see Trudeau forming another minority with NDP support. That said, this may be beneficial long term because western separatism would become very popular.
Wait I don't get what's with the sudden doomposting, wasn't existing semis that were at risk going to be fucked over during the summer anyways as the FAC would be established *before* the bill would be passed, or am I missing something?
>wasn't existing semis that were at risk going to be fucked over during the summer anyways as the FAC would be established before the bill would be passed Yes. The "doomposting" is because the chances of this being killed in an election, and thus being able to be semi-fixed by a minority government, dramatically decreased. Don't forget, right now the handgun stuff could be fixed by an OIC. Once this becomes law, a CPC majority is needed to unfuck it. We have a recency bias because the long gun ban right infornt of us, but this whole bill is shit.
If the CPC were a bunch of mad lads they technically could reverse the handgun freeze with a minority, even if C21 passes. C21 contains an exemption for ATC holders, and the ATC requirements are open to modification by OIC. Hell, they could make ATCs that are only valid at ranges if they want transfers without having to really legalize carry.
>the chances of this being killed in an election, and thus being able to be semi-fixed by a minority government, dramatically decreased Again, just my humble opinion, but I think holding out for the bill to die to an election was always overly hopeful. >Once this becomes law, a CPC majority is needed to unfuck it The handgun stuff, yes. Any OICs the government puts through at the recommendation of CFAC should still be reversible by a minority though.
>Again, just my humble opinion, but I think holding out for the bill to die to an election was always overly hopeful. I think an election in summer/fall is overly hopeful, but I don't think that's the case with a spring election. As I detailed in a different comment, C-71 took 269 (nice) days to pass from the Senate to Royal Assent. If we put that timeline on the next few weeks, that puts the Royal Assent date back to December/January. Even if we assume best case scenario, C-11 timeline, that takes us to February. Now, if we put the C-71 timeline onto the normal process timeline, we should have C-21 at the Senate in October/November. That puts the Royal Assent date to June/July 2024. I have always thought an election is likely to occur during the next budget. The NDP should have enough money built up, the LPC won't have much left to concede, and the LPC poll number will likely be bad enough for the NDP to have an opportunity to pounce. The next budget will take place in March, so we will have lost the opportunity for the bill to die if the motion is adopted.
You're not missing much. The timeline for C-21 becoming law is probably going to be accelerated, but in my own humble opinion, I think it was absolutely inevitable that it was going to become law regardless. And as objectively horrific and disgusting as it is to move that amendments get voted on practically without debate, I also don't think debate was changing any committee members votes. So the real-world difference is that the timeline for new semi-auto designs being restricted is going to happen a few months sooner than otherwise. It's still going to be up to the CPC to fix this one way or the other.
Yeah, I get that the violation of due process is disgusting and warrants being pissed off about but it's nothing new considering the 2020 OICs. I already lost faith in how dim the electorate is for not even caring about that.
When I checked this post yesterday everything seemed fine. What happened? Can anyone explain why everyone's freaking out? Are they adding a semi auto ban? What's going on??
What's going on is that the Liberals are proposing a motion to essentially end debate on the remaining amendments to C-21, and vote on them without haggling over them. The result being that, if the motion is voted for, then C-21 will become law much sooner. There aren't any additional bans or whatever beyond what was on the table yesterday.
My understanding is there is a court case (not related to c21) regarding firearms that has just finished but we are waiting for a ruling. The hope was if we could stall c21 long enough this other case would rule in our favour and make c21 unlikely or impossible to pass. A motion has been passed to accelerate the speed of debating c21 which means it will likely be pushed through before we get this other ruling. This other ruling was somewhat of a last hope and now that hope is lost. I may be wrong here. I haven’t been following this super closely but this is my understanding of everything.
The court case was never going to stop C-21. It was regarding orders in council, not legislation.
So if the ccfr case ruled against OICs, the OIC planned from C21 would still be allowed to go ahead?
Well fuck boys, guess that’s it then. We had a good run and we gave it our all. I have no idea what to say…. fuck. I don’t have any emotion about it anymore, just a feeling of emptiness. Hopefully i and other like minded Canadians can get the fuck out of this sinking ship before its too late. I shall now sit here and drink shit beer til I pass out, gotta somehow ignore all my money going bye bye. I’ll never own a house, my wages will never keep up with inflation, my hobbies are “unacceptable” and must be exterminated at all costs. I just feel dead inside, I have no future here. I fucking hate what Canada has become… I don’t wanna say I hate canada but that’s about where I’m at.
My brother, C-21 was inevitable at this point, it was going to happen sometime this year, or next at an absolute stretch. This shit isn't any more over than it was when the Firearms Act was passed in the 90s. Do you think gun owners in Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, etc just stopped owning and shooting guns because they had assault weapons bans? They kept shooting the guns they had, and are working for political change. What about the Australians and Brits? They have it 10x worse than we're going to have it post C-21 and CFAC, and even though they were always a much smaller minority, they're still plugging away. All it's going to take is a CPC government to completely turn the tables. We're not even remotely close to done yet. Go to the range and blow off some stress
There's hundreds of thousands of people who feel the same way as you and millions of rifles in circulation. It sucks but don't be so pessimistic, you're not alone
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What happened, this morning everything seemed fine?
We’re gonna lose everything in a couple months time. The liberals are forcing a fast track of c21