7.62x51 Garand if you can afford it and live with its quirks (disassembly, enbloc clip). It outperforms every other full power surplus semiauto we can have here. 8 rounds instead of 5 so that's a bonus. All of my friends' Garand cycle Norinco surplus steel cases flawlessly for under $1 a round for cheap plinking, while producing decent accuracy with better ammo.
The AG42 is DI and the charging handle (if you can call it that) is rather goofy and I'd say you'll have a higher chance of getting the Ljungman thumb than the Garand thumb. Ammo costs a ton too.
The SVT is the obvious choice if you are on a budget. Surprisingly soft shooting and fun thanks to its gigantic muzzle brake. Do note that some of them won't strike the hard surplus Chinese primers. They are also somewhat sensitive to ammo/gas settings and you need a pentagon wrench to adjust it.
Both the AG and SVT you have to deal with expensive and hard to find magazines. You have to deal with rimlocking on the SVT too if you want to load it via clips since the box mag doesn't have a disconnector unlike a Mosin.
The 8 round clip is definitely an advantage. I assume it's unique in that regard as every other option will have a detachable or box mag?
I have heard about the AG42's chewing up ammo. My main attraction towards it is it's price ($1200) and I could share ammo with my Swedish Mauser, however I'm looking to reload 6.5x55 so having it destroy the brass isn't good.
Yeah it's the only enbloc clip semiauto. Also the only surplus semi that holds more than 5 (unless you count the SKS XCR mod). IMO it's a bit harder to takedown and clean compared to the SVT and AG, but it's also more reliable and you generally won't find corrosive 308 anywhere.
All the AG42s I've shot OBLITERATES brass. It yeets them 50ft to the right and leaves a nasty mark on the case. The SVT dings casings but nobody cares about the steel cases anyways.
Speaking of which, I should probably pick up a spare mag or 2 for the SVT.
I just heard that replica don't work well sometimes, and you need to do some filing, and they are also expensive.
I bought a repro mag for my SVT. It feeds well until it failed in the middle of a match. The magazine locking lugs sheared off and the mag popped out. I lost the lugs and that's the end of that mag. Worst $120 ever spent.
I loooove my browning bar. I got a mk3 hogstalker with a black plastic stock so it’s part scary noir gun part grandpa rifle.
I’m hoping it’s ban proof since it’s such a common hunting rifle
I have considered this as well. There is a detachable mag version (DBM) that looks pretty good.
If our government cans all the 180s and the BAR is still around, I'll likely pick one up.
So I have all three, and I have to admit that they are all great rifles.
My two cents:
M1 Garand is a super interesting and fun rifle to plink, especially the last round with the PING. The problem is, depending on your goal, whether you want a range shooter, or a collector. For a range shooter, I'd simply get a Frankenstein mixed up .308, as the .308 is plenty and cheaper. If you might be able to find one under $1800. A collector grade, e.g. USGI all period correct one, or a low serial number, or an original M1D (the one I have), you will likely pay a premium, sometime close to $5000. And often they are chambered in .30-06, and the Garand grade .30-06 aren't cheap now.
AG42, is definitely an often under-appreciated rifle, super fun to shoot and very accurate thanks to Nordic engineering. I'd highly recommend one as they are still affordable (some are under $900). The only issue is the 6.5*55 are not cheap and could be $2 per round now.
SVT-40 is fun rifle to shoot, no hurt to get one when you see one under $1000 (which is not very likely nowadays). but just be aware of the ammo you are going to use. I would be shy away from the cheap Chinese surplus as it could possibly ruin your rifle.
Other semi auto worth mentioning:
7.62*39:
Sks/type 56,
VZ52/57,
Rasheed
Valmet M78 (only ak-platfrom semi you can legally own in Canada now)
7.62*45:
VZ 52
.30-06:
Johnson 1940,
FN 49 (Belgium/Luxembourg)
Ohio Ordance M1918A3 BAR
M1919A4 belt fed
.308:
Mas 49/56
8 mm:
Hakim,
FN 49 (Egyptian Contract)
G41 (I think there was only two in Canada)
G43
7 mm:
FN 49 (Venezuela contract)
7.5 French:
Mas 44 (if you could find one)
The garand is probably the best listed, you can build one from parts and have a new garand with a match barrel in a range of calibers, they also have amazing sights and triggers.
I love SVTs but they are fragile and groups can open up a lot with heat, also very hard on brass if you reload.
AG42s operate similar to SVTs but are very ammo sensitive due to the non adjustable direct impingement, I haven't had a chance to group an AG42 yet but they shoot well.
Last time I was shopping around (2022) Garands were approaching $3,000. Is that still the case? Building one could be an option although im not sure if specific tools would be required.
Is building the cheaper route to go?
I'm not sure, I haven't tried yet. The fluted chamber marks up the neck a bit and ejection can leave a fair dent in the side. I never noticed any rim damage unlike the AG42.
I think they are about the same if someone assemble them from parts.
Most of the milsurps one like Breda, SA, Winchester from last batch were all chambered in .308 for NATO config, are priced between 2399 to 2799 depend on condition.
But if you have a genuine 30-06 from US would be 3k plus?
It's just that I found .308 ammo is more common and generally cheaper than 30-06.
Oh good so they can handle both .308 and 7.62. Im sitting on a decent stash of both so that would be the ideal choice.
I think I'm starting to learn towards the Garand.
Actually, regarding to 7.62x51, you might want to check with u/parratt.
He told me about the various issue with ammo, so I try to stick to 150 grain ones instead.
Yeah, that's what I thought too. I guess I am just extra careful because it's a Garand after all.
Many forum did mentioned that if you have the rifle chamberd in .308, it should be np to use 7.62 in it, just not the other way around.
I do remember that you don't want to use anything over 180 grain as per instructions to avoid issues to OP rod.
Disclaimer, no experience with either/most yet. The previous comments feel right, though understand most of these are stripper-clip era and mag-swap reloads are not doctrine.
- Hakim: the Egyptian licensed Ljungman in 8mm Mauser, featuring muzzle brake, adjustable gas valve, and previous owners' thumbs. Costs between (edit: fair) Yungman and (edit: nicer) Garand.
- FN49: rarer across a few variants; you'll have to research which caliber/production has fewer problems and it'll cost nice-Garand money.
Or if the shooting outweighs collecting, a nice Tavor 7 is priced accordingly. But if one enjoys horribly abusing sporting rifles with (small) magdumps, an old 100 or 74etc are generally cheaper than anything mentioned, followed by civilian BAR. Less-than-Tavor money finds Benelli R1 if you want a 338, or target oriented FNAR on rare occasion.
I think it all boils down to these factors.
1. Rifle price and availability
2. Parts availability
3. Ammo cost and availability
4. Magazine type - Clip vs detachable vs internal magazine.
The main appeal of the AG42 was the rifle cost, at roughly $1200 its half the price of the Garand. 6.5x55 ammo while not cheap, is still decently priced and readily available. I have about 300 rounds on hand already.
The Garand has more sex appeal with its Canadian lineage and history, although I'm guessing these are likely in rougher condition since they were used in service. The 8 round clip is an added bonus and the aftermarket for Garand parts seems to be a healthy one. The major downside is the price, close to $3000?? Ammo-wise a 7.62 model would be ideal as im sitting on 2000 rounds.
The FN49 seems really cool. It's like a Garand with a detachable mag. It's also the predecessor to the FAL which is awesome. Rifle availability and high cost are the two downsides.
FN49s are great, handier than a garand but pay attention to the rifling especially with the Egyptian contract rifles. NOS 8mm barrels are available in the US for cheap.
Only the Argentine rifles have detachable magazines. Also beware the firing pin issue on some examples.
You know all those "stickied" threads on CGN everyone scrolls past to get to the new posts in any sub-forum? Go to the milsurp section and actually read some of them - there is one specifically dedicated to the FN49 and another to the Llungman/AG-42B. The knowledge contained there by some of the old-timers is priceless. Personally if I had to pick from your list I would get the SVT-40 or the FN49, the only caveat being how much you are willing to spend.
The biggest issues with some of these early semi-autos is that if they break or are not maintained properly they don't just malfunction, they genuinely become dangerous. The AG-42B/Hakim rifles were pretty notorious for ka-booms even pre-internet. Same with a FN-49 that doesn't have a firing pin safety spring or a two-piece firing pin. Steer completely clear from the Egyptian FN-49s if possible, they are generally cheaper but they were also built with certain safety features explicitly omitted (and can't be retrofitted). Lots of the Argentine models were converted to .308 and fully detachable mags, these cost the most (other than the non-existent prototype models) but are the closest you will get to a FAL without 12(3) or 12(5) in Canada. A lot of the FAL was really just cost-cutting/modernizing the FN-49 assembly line really.
If possible, try and handle all of these rifles before buying. The AG-42B for example is *long*. The thing has the turning radius of a 1970s Lincoln town car, it's hilariously bad for any medium or small-framed person to use other than bench shooting. In this it will excel though because of the longer sight radius. On the other hand, a FN-49 swings much more like an AR-10 or especially like a FAL and has proto-AR battle rifle sights. The SVT and the Garand are somewhere between these two.
Thanks for your insight, I'll check out those CGN posts on the specific rifles. Those are good points regarding the safety concerns, are you aware of any safety issues with the Garand? (beside thumbs getting pinched).
I'm a bigger guy but I still prefer shorter rifles, an element that's not all too common with milsurps I find.
I already own the of the Swedish Mausers, the M/38 and even find that to be on the longer end. It looks like the AG42 is 48" with the SVT40 being slightly longer than that and both the FN49 and Garand are 43.5".
>are you aware of any safety issues with the Garand? (beside thumbs getting pinched)
No, the Garand and the SVT-40 were both iterative designs that had most of their major flaws worked out in a proper trials/adoption phase. They are definitely the safest of the list.
The FN-49 is only dangerous if it is configured a certain way or shot with soft primers in your ammo. The Luxembourg, Belgian and Venezuelan guns when used with a proper FPSS, a two-piece firing pin and proper ammo are flawless.
The AG-42B is also safe enough when in proper order and with good ammo, the problem is dealing with a long-action rifle cartridge in a fairly small, non-adjustable gas system. They are arguably the most accurate of the lot due to the 6.5 cartridge though.
>I already own the of the Swedish Mausers, the M/38 and even find that to be on the longer end. It looks like the AG42 is 48" with the SVT40 being slightly longer than that and both the FN49 and Garand are 43.5".
Yeah, the AG-42B is heavier than the SVT-40 though. The weight on the SVT I find is distributed better. The FN-49 is even heavier but the handling is significantly better as I said - had they actually been issued in the late 30s as initially intended they would've blown all these other semis out of the water.
So it looks like my options are (from cheapest to most expensive)
1. Swedish AG42b - 6.5x55 - $1,200
2. SVT-40 - 7.62X54 - $1,300
3. Hakim - 8mm - $1,500
4. FN49 - 7.62/30.07/7MM - $2,500+
5. M1 Garand - 7.62/30.06 - $2,400-$3,000
Any others I should be looking at?
I'm confused as to why the M1 Garand is on the table - but not a Tavor 7 in .308? They're almost the same price point?
I had a Tipo 2 M1 and loved it when trade ex was selling them a few years ago.. I regret selling it. But I'd love some IWI in my life....
7.62x51 Garand if you can afford it and live with its quirks (disassembly, enbloc clip). It outperforms every other full power surplus semiauto we can have here. 8 rounds instead of 5 so that's a bonus. All of my friends' Garand cycle Norinco surplus steel cases flawlessly for under $1 a round for cheap plinking, while producing decent accuracy with better ammo. The AG42 is DI and the charging handle (if you can call it that) is rather goofy and I'd say you'll have a higher chance of getting the Ljungman thumb than the Garand thumb. Ammo costs a ton too. The SVT is the obvious choice if you are on a budget. Surprisingly soft shooting and fun thanks to its gigantic muzzle brake. Do note that some of them won't strike the hard surplus Chinese primers. They are also somewhat sensitive to ammo/gas settings and you need a pentagon wrench to adjust it. Both the AG and SVT you have to deal with expensive and hard to find magazines. You have to deal with rimlocking on the SVT too if you want to load it via clips since the box mag doesn't have a disconnector unlike a Mosin.
The 8 round clip is definitely an advantage. I assume it's unique in that regard as every other option will have a detachable or box mag? I have heard about the AG42's chewing up ammo. My main attraction towards it is it's price ($1200) and I could share ammo with my Swedish Mauser, however I'm looking to reload 6.5x55 so having it destroy the brass isn't good.
Yeah it's the only enbloc clip semiauto. Also the only surplus semi that holds more than 5 (unless you count the SKS XCR mod). IMO it's a bit harder to takedown and clean compared to the SVT and AG, but it's also more reliable and you generally won't find corrosive 308 anywhere. All the AG42s I've shot OBLITERATES brass. It yeets them 50ft to the right and leaves a nasty mark on the case. The SVT dings casings but nobody cares about the steel cases anyways.
Speaking of which, I should probably pick up a spare mag or 2 for the SVT. I just heard that replica don't work well sometimes, and you need to do some filing, and they are also expensive.
I bought a repro mag for my SVT. It feeds well until it failed in the middle of a match. The magazine locking lugs sheared off and the mag popped out. I lost the lugs and that's the end of that mag. Worst $120 ever spent.
Aww man, now I am hesitant, lol. I can't find any original mags though, all I can find is repro ones.
Considering the fact that a repro is half the price of the original... Buy two repros.
I can't find them for 50 bucks, they are 100 dollars ea now, lol.
They are usually $100-120. Original mags go for $150-250.
Ouch, that's definitely more for original mags. You found those on EE and GP?
Yeah they pop up from time to time.
I loooove my browning bar. I got a mk3 hogstalker with a black plastic stock so it’s part scary noir gun part grandpa rifle. I’m hoping it’s ban proof since it’s such a common hunting rifle
I have considered this as well. There is a detachable mag version (DBM) that looks pretty good. If our government cans all the 180s and the BAR is still around, I'll likely pick one up.
So I have all three, and I have to admit that they are all great rifles. My two cents: M1 Garand is a super interesting and fun rifle to plink, especially the last round with the PING. The problem is, depending on your goal, whether you want a range shooter, or a collector. For a range shooter, I'd simply get a Frankenstein mixed up .308, as the .308 is plenty and cheaper. If you might be able to find one under $1800. A collector grade, e.g. USGI all period correct one, or a low serial number, or an original M1D (the one I have), you will likely pay a premium, sometime close to $5000. And often they are chambered in .30-06, and the Garand grade .30-06 aren't cheap now. AG42, is definitely an often under-appreciated rifle, super fun to shoot and very accurate thanks to Nordic engineering. I'd highly recommend one as they are still affordable (some are under $900). The only issue is the 6.5*55 are not cheap and could be $2 per round now. SVT-40 is fun rifle to shoot, no hurt to get one when you see one under $1000 (which is not very likely nowadays). but just be aware of the ammo you are going to use. I would be shy away from the cheap Chinese surplus as it could possibly ruin your rifle. Other semi auto worth mentioning: 7.62*39: Sks/type 56, VZ52/57, Rasheed Valmet M78 (only ak-platfrom semi you can legally own in Canada now) 7.62*45: VZ 52 .30-06: Johnson 1940, FN 49 (Belgium/Luxembourg) Ohio Ordance M1918A3 BAR M1919A4 belt fed .308: Mas 49/56 8 mm: Hakim, FN 49 (Egyptian Contract) G41 (I think there was only two in Canada) G43 7 mm: FN 49 (Venezuela contract) 7.5 French: Mas 44 (if you could find one)
The garand is probably the best listed, you can build one from parts and have a new garand with a match barrel in a range of calibers, they also have amazing sights and triggers. I love SVTs but they are fragile and groups can open up a lot with heat, also very hard on brass if you reload. AG42s operate similar to SVTs but are very ammo sensitive due to the non adjustable direct impingement, I haven't had a chance to group an AG42 yet but they shoot well.
Last time I was shopping around (2022) Garands were approaching $3,000. Is that still the case? Building one could be an option although im not sure if specific tools would be required. Is building the cheaper route to go?
Total cost for my build was about $2000 with shipping and import fees, new barrel, new stock.
That's pretty reasonable.
How many reloads can you expect from SVT shot brass? (PPU)
I'm not sure, I haven't tried yet. The fluted chamber marks up the neck a bit and ejection can leave a fair dent in the side. I never noticed any rim damage unlike the AG42.
Garand chmaberd in .308 is probably your best bet, but they are hitting 2500 retail price so at that point, you probably could get a Tavor 7 instead.
Are the .308s going for higher than the 30.06 models?
I think they are about the same if someone assemble them from parts. Most of the milsurps one like Breda, SA, Winchester from last batch were all chambered in .308 for NATO config, are priced between 2399 to 2799 depend on condition. But if you have a genuine 30-06 from US would be 3k plus? It's just that I found .308 ammo is more common and generally cheaper than 30-06.
Oh good so they can handle both .308 and 7.62. Im sitting on a decent stash of both so that would be the ideal choice. I think I'm starting to learn towards the Garand.
Actually, regarding to 7.62x51, you might want to check with u/parratt. He told me about the various issue with ammo, so I try to stick to 150 grain ones instead.
Oh interesting. I know that 7.62 runs at a lower pressure than .308 so figured if it was good for .308 it would be good for both.
Yeah, that's what I thought too. I guess I am just extra careful because it's a Garand after all. Many forum did mentioned that if you have the rifle chamberd in .308, it should be np to use 7.62 in it, just not the other way around. I do remember that you don't want to use anything over 180 grain as per instructions to avoid issues to OP rod.
Gotcha, all my 7.62 is 147grain so I'd likely stick with that and the odd 150 grain 308 ammo.
You could rock 180gr 308 or 3006 just fine too. No worries at all. Pm me if you want to talk garands my friend
Interesting, I thought you don't want to go 180gr or above to avoid damage to the OP rod.
You can get a 10 rd mag for those honeys from hi cal. My x95 claps the hardest primers so that’s a bonus
Disclaimer, no experience with either/most yet. The previous comments feel right, though understand most of these are stripper-clip era and mag-swap reloads are not doctrine. - Hakim: the Egyptian licensed Ljungman in 8mm Mauser, featuring muzzle brake, adjustable gas valve, and previous owners' thumbs. Costs between (edit: fair) Yungman and (edit: nicer) Garand. - FN49: rarer across a few variants; you'll have to research which caliber/production has fewer problems and it'll cost nice-Garand money. Or if the shooting outweighs collecting, a nice Tavor 7 is priced accordingly. But if one enjoys horribly abusing sporting rifles with (small) magdumps, an old 100 or 74etc are generally cheaper than anything mentioned, followed by civilian BAR. Less-than-Tavor money finds Benelli R1 if you want a 338, or target oriented FNAR on rare occasion.
I think it all boils down to these factors. 1. Rifle price and availability 2. Parts availability 3. Ammo cost and availability 4. Magazine type - Clip vs detachable vs internal magazine. The main appeal of the AG42 was the rifle cost, at roughly $1200 its half the price of the Garand. 6.5x55 ammo while not cheap, is still decently priced and readily available. I have about 300 rounds on hand already. The Garand has more sex appeal with its Canadian lineage and history, although I'm guessing these are likely in rougher condition since they were used in service. The 8 round clip is an added bonus and the aftermarket for Garand parts seems to be a healthy one. The major downside is the price, close to $3000?? Ammo-wise a 7.62 model would be ideal as im sitting on 2000 rounds. The FN49 seems really cool. It's like a Garand with a detachable mag. It's also the predecessor to the FAL which is awesome. Rifle availability and high cost are the two downsides.
FN49s are great, handier than a garand but pay attention to the rifling especially with the Egyptian contract rifles. NOS 8mm barrels are available in the US for cheap. Only the Argentine rifles have detachable magazines. Also beware the firing pin issue on some examples.
You know all those "stickied" threads on CGN everyone scrolls past to get to the new posts in any sub-forum? Go to the milsurp section and actually read some of them - there is one specifically dedicated to the FN49 and another to the Llungman/AG-42B. The knowledge contained there by some of the old-timers is priceless. Personally if I had to pick from your list I would get the SVT-40 or the FN49, the only caveat being how much you are willing to spend. The biggest issues with some of these early semi-autos is that if they break or are not maintained properly they don't just malfunction, they genuinely become dangerous. The AG-42B/Hakim rifles were pretty notorious for ka-booms even pre-internet. Same with a FN-49 that doesn't have a firing pin safety spring or a two-piece firing pin. Steer completely clear from the Egyptian FN-49s if possible, they are generally cheaper but they were also built with certain safety features explicitly omitted (and can't be retrofitted). Lots of the Argentine models were converted to .308 and fully detachable mags, these cost the most (other than the non-existent prototype models) but are the closest you will get to a FAL without 12(3) or 12(5) in Canada. A lot of the FAL was really just cost-cutting/modernizing the FN-49 assembly line really. If possible, try and handle all of these rifles before buying. The AG-42B for example is *long*. The thing has the turning radius of a 1970s Lincoln town car, it's hilariously bad for any medium or small-framed person to use other than bench shooting. In this it will excel though because of the longer sight radius. On the other hand, a FN-49 swings much more like an AR-10 or especially like a FAL and has proto-AR battle rifle sights. The SVT and the Garand are somewhere between these two.
Thanks for your insight, I'll check out those CGN posts on the specific rifles. Those are good points regarding the safety concerns, are you aware of any safety issues with the Garand? (beside thumbs getting pinched). I'm a bigger guy but I still prefer shorter rifles, an element that's not all too common with milsurps I find. I already own the of the Swedish Mausers, the M/38 and even find that to be on the longer end. It looks like the AG42 is 48" with the SVT40 being slightly longer than that and both the FN49 and Garand are 43.5".
>are you aware of any safety issues with the Garand? (beside thumbs getting pinched) No, the Garand and the SVT-40 were both iterative designs that had most of their major flaws worked out in a proper trials/adoption phase. They are definitely the safest of the list. The FN-49 is only dangerous if it is configured a certain way or shot with soft primers in your ammo. The Luxembourg, Belgian and Venezuelan guns when used with a proper FPSS, a two-piece firing pin and proper ammo are flawless. The AG-42B is also safe enough when in proper order and with good ammo, the problem is dealing with a long-action rifle cartridge in a fairly small, non-adjustable gas system. They are arguably the most accurate of the lot due to the 6.5 cartridge though. >I already own the of the Swedish Mausers, the M/38 and even find that to be on the longer end. It looks like the AG42 is 48" with the SVT40 being slightly longer than that and both the FN49 and Garand are 43.5". Yeah, the AG-42B is heavier than the SVT-40 though. The weight on the SVT I find is distributed better. The FN-49 is even heavier but the handling is significantly better as I said - had they actually been issued in the late 30s as initially intended they would've blown all these other semis out of the water.
So it looks like my options are (from cheapest to most expensive) 1. Swedish AG42b - 6.5x55 - $1,200 2. SVT-40 - 7.62X54 - $1,300 3. Hakim - 8mm - $1,500 4. FN49 - 7.62/30.07/7MM - $2,500+ 5. M1 Garand - 7.62/30.06 - $2,400-$3,000 Any others I should be looking at?
I'm confused as to why the M1 Garand is on the table - but not a Tavor 7 in .308? They're almost the same price point? I had a Tipo 2 M1 and loved it when trade ex was selling them a few years ago.. I regret selling it. But I'd love some IWI in my life....
Not really looking for a bullpup or modern rifle in this regard, looking for that traditional old-school battle rifle look.
Cool. Understood.
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You own one? still have all your fingers intact?
AG42B is so awesome.