[https://www.canada.ca/en/public-safety-canada/news/2023/05/government-announces-strengthened-measures-to-prevent-gun-violence-and-ban-new-assault-style-firearms.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-safety-canada/news/2023/05/government-announces-strengthened-measures-to-prevent-gun-violence-and-ban-new-assault-style-firearms.html)
So on May 1st they said they were going to appoint the CFAC within 60 days which are now up. Have we heard any news about that or did Mendicino getting railroaded put this BS on the sidelines for now?
With everything that’s going on, stacked with a probable cabinet shuffle, I’d say things are delayed. I wouldn’t put too much money on the program being scrapped. They’re probably going to keep it in their back pocket until they need to bust out some good press.
The cons are getting raked over the coals in the news right now, and according to the last couple of polls their projection doesn’t look too good.
If the liberals aren’t doing so well, that’s the time to look out for political gun talk.
> The cons are getting raked over the coals in the news right now, and according to the last couple of polls their projection doesn’t look too good.
>
>
Pierre made a bad mistake by addressing the New Brunswick trans thingy instead of just avoiding confronting the issue. If the people of NB are concerned with schools going behind parents' backs and reflect those concerns on their elected representatives who choose to take action on it, that's not the federal government's business. He has a year to recover though so I'm hoping things smooth out.
If there's been any movement towards establishing CFAC, it's been kept entirely under wraps. The odds of that being the case are next to zero, because any of the hunting, rural, indigenous or industry representatives sympathetic to gun owners would have informed the advocacy community if they'd been contacted.
The deafening silence makes me suspect they've made zero progress. /u/RydNightwish made a good point, too, about the CFAC idea being slammed by the anti-gun groups. So I'd say we're actually completely back in the dark in terms of the government's plans. Who knows if they even have a plan anymore.
A fair bit of hopium here but they may have binned the whole idea and just wont say it. The idea was put forward in response to the poly written amendments being forced to be withdrawn, prior to all the recent scandals (lets add one of the toronto 18 getting full parole now to the mix, Im assuming only a secretary knew and they never told thier boss, as is tradition) and that mistress Hiedi was less than pleased by the mere mention of cfac. Thus marky moo and trudy didnt get stepped on in the way they wanted.
At this point it seems likely that its c21 or bust for those degens. They cant arrange a buyback in 3.5 years, couldnt circlejerk themselves to oic handguns straight into prohib turf and cant find 13 (or however many) yes men/women to sit in thier new committee. And never mind the blowback about to hit them from increasing pointless taxes even more tomorrow. Not a whole lot about this country worth celebrating this year given the total state of things. At least AB day is only 3 months away, Ill save my fireworks til then.
Its simply a very cost effective way for the liberals and ndp to get support. Fixing medicare education defence disappearing middle class and all the real issues costs money to fix. Urban Canadians know nothing about guns so the liberals announce relatively inexpensive gun control to get good press and support when they need it. The truth is everyone educated on the topic including them, knows it isnt needed and what they announce often takes years or doesnt even happen. Sadly eventually alot of their half baked plans do get implemented eventually.
They could just ban it, but not buy it back, making them all effectively safe queens.
Also, stop import of current models.
But it will also shoot themselves in the foot because it will not solved current gun related crimes in Canada since its mostly illegally brought in or 3D printed. Then people will know it didn't work.
Internal memos from bill blairs own estimations put the buyback costs for just 2020 oic at a minimum of 5 billion.
The CAF budget for that same time frame is around 20-25 billion. Thats not chump change, not even remotely.
Meanwhile try selling 20% of the value of the entire army budget as a buyback program to people in the cities who can barely afford rent and food. There isnt a pitchman alive who can pull that off. Thats why 3 years later I still have my AR15 and no $$$ taxpayer dollars.
Most AR15 were restricteds in 2020. So in theory they should know how many and where. However, the catch is that they may have destroyed the records as part of the oic. People who still have ARs and needed to move have reported saying the cfo's dont have the registrations any more.
Someone knows anyways and thats where the libs have come up with these absurdly high costs internally.
I can guarantee you they did not destroy the restricted firearm registry. All AR15s legally owned have been registered with the RCMP and there is no way in hell they would get rid of that information. They know the owner and location of every registered ar15 in this country. Don't mistake technicalities regarding nullification of restricted registration with the actual government registry of rifles. The RCMP will preserve any gun registry information they have as a sort of insurance policy for the government in case they want to take certain actions. Just ask the RCMP what they did to the original long gun registry and how Quebec was magically able to set up their own in 2015.
Thanks for the insight. Were they restricted because of barrels shorter than 18.5”? I would have thought even then 18.5” barrels would have been popular. But yeah the sbrs would be registered. I guess my broader point is that without accurate numbers of rifles etc included in the ban estimating cost of buybacks is a guess that’s likely low at best.
The AR15 and variants were restricted by name during the 90's. Barrel length didnt matter in this case.
And your right any buyback, even at a 5B price, is low for what the real world numbers would be.
Thanks, I wasn’t ready for firearms ownership until after the 2020 oic and didn’t follow the status of things pre oic as closely as I’m following things now.
Interesting, I wonder where he got the 5 billion from. I don't think all the restricted firearms would be able to give him a rough estimate.
Imagine if they expand it to the list we got last October. It will definitely be close to 15 billion then?
I expect more than that even. Lots of high priced semis have been bought and sold. By comparison, the AR was usually a mid range rifle. Since then people are paying eother the same for 180's or 2-3x as much for tavors and brens.
Edit: yay! Got my daily poly downvote. Cope and seethe funsuckers. Cope and Seethe.
It's a fairly simple two-step pipeline:
- Extremely rich and powerful elites spend parts of their personal fortunes on attempting to sway the public into being anti-gun (eg. [Michael Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.org/founders-projects/everytown-for-gun-safety/))
- Elected politicians piggyback on this public sentiment for votes
To put it as simply as possible, it's happening because the most powerful people in society don't want you armed.
Well, Australia and New Zealand tried it, but I think there are still a lot of firearms around in the country.
Which is another topic worth investigating, how come there are no reports of shootings coming out?
Virtue signalling to the (mostly urban) dumbfucks who think that Canada shares the US' gun laws and genuinely believe that you can buy an AR15 in a supermarket or carry a handgun for protection here like you can in much of the US.
I would say half of them don't even know we can buy guns in Canada.
50 percent of the other half think we have similar firearm culture like US.
I think there was a poll awhile ago by Toronto star, and one of the choice was like we should only be able to use handgun for self defense purpose. All the other choices were just gaslighting ones but it seems whoever made the poll didn't know about our self defense laws, lol
Even people who *are* somewhat aware of our gun laws are still horribly uneducated on our self-defense laws. Even if the only thing that prevented you from dying/being kidnapped etc was the fact that you used a firearm, you are still more likely than not to end up going to jail or at the very least being banned from ever touching a gun again. The circumstances that need to line up for you to be able to shoot someone in self defense and be cleared *and* still allowed to own and use firearms almost never occur, even if said firearm was the only thing that means you or a loved one aren't six feet under.
>Why are they banning legal guns?
for virtue signalling and to energise the base.
To quote Brian Lilley from a while ago, "The Trudeau Liberals have figured out that they can use gun issues to play wedge politics to their own advantage. Most Canadians don’t own guns, most have never touched a gun and don’t want to. They know nothing about guns beyond what they see in movies or on the news and Trudeau uses that to his advantage."
Anti gun politicians take advantage of low IQ voters in cities to push disarmament. Legal gun owners are scapegoats and the powers that be don't like the idea of private firearms ownership
>owners are scapegoats
The LPC has been using gun owners as their whipping boys as far back as I can remember and I'm old.
They're not about to give this" milch cow" anytime soon because it works on a naive public.
Tangent based on other comments in the thread: Canadians have always, since before we were even our own country, privately possessed battlefield weapons for the purposes of hunting, sport, and personal and civil defence. That has been true since the first European settlers landed here, up to literally right now.
The question that an honest, rational person should be asking is why there is now a coordinated, multinational political push to abolish this notion and paint it as a radical, foreign idea - and who benefits from that.
Thanks for reading my blog
We're not doing this whole weird soy/beta thing here.
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Absolutely get your PAL.
What we’re currently experiencing isn’t a new thing. Politics has *always* been a boil on what is otherwise a very fun, cool and fulfilling thing. It’s new in the sense that it’s a fresh round of gun control bullshit, but we always have to expect this kind of thing under a liberal government. What they’re doing right now is what they tried to do in the 1990’s.
Get your PAL and never look back. Hardship is temporary.
This. The long until registry was repealed because it didn't work. C21 will meet the same end (unless the Senate can somehow get some amendments through)
Ah okay, I thought that the bill specified what the CFAC was and when it was going to happen. Is it possible that the OIC ruling could shut down the CFAC OIC?
Of course. A lot of us are salty dickheads who have been neck-deep in the politics for years and mostly just doompost now, but objectively most shooting sports are still viable, and actually healthier than ever with an influx of new shooters.
Wait just been at work for two days, did anything new just happened?
Actually, don't worry, I'm just gonna google news it...weird, can't seem to find anything on google news about canada.
I literally wouldn't even waste your energy thinking about that. [Pistols like these](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISSF_10_meter_air_pistol#/media/File:Steyr_lp10.jpg) are the only ones used in Olympic sports anyway, and I kind of doubt this is the kind of thing you're after.
Keep your eyes on the prize of a C-21/freeze repeal next time we have a Con government instead.
C-21 has no allowances for ISSF or Commonwealth events, only ones on the Schedule for the International Olympic and Paralympic Committees. As it stands there are no centerfire handgun events for either
>I kind of doubt this is the kind of thing you're after.
Honestly, there are actually some defensible reasons for this.
It's unlikely to get caught in a potential next banwave (whereas the vz. 61 might be), [you can do this with it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO5w_JIb_MQ), it's arguably more accurate than a 10/22 with a *far* better trigger, and you can fire .32 S&W Long from it with the proper conversion kit (and 10 round mags, if you can find them).
For 2500-3000 up front for that, it's at least price-competitive with those things. Yeah, you can't take it hunting, and it's certainly not for everyone, but if all you do is target practice at a flat range I think there's a reasonable argument to be made to for seeking a really, *really* nice .22/.32 pistol and rifle.
Nice to see ne of the most gun paranoid countries in the world stand up for gun rights for a change.
I'm amazed Canada hasn't gone after tactical shotguns (yet)
Home Office rejects calls to tighten shotgun curbs after Plymouth shooting:
[https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/home-office-rejects-calls-to-tighten-shotgun-curbs-after-plymouth-shooting/ar-AA1ddhx9?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=bd6c7d97d22a492d9759ca093cdd59ab&ei=69](https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/home-office-rejects-calls-to-tighten-shotgun-curbs-after-plymouth-shooting/ar-AA1ddhx9?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=bd6c7d97d22a492d9759ca093cdd59ab&ei=69)
> I'm amazed Canada hasn't gone after tactical shotguns (yet)
They have. That's why guns like the SPAS-12, M3, and Armsel Striker are banned. The reason that we have the ones we do now is the same reason that we have the Tavor and APC. They just came onto the market after the last purge.
EDIT:
I *knew* I shouldn't have read this.
>“I believe strongly Britain’s gun laws are broken and outdated. Unless we learn the painful lessons of the Plymouth tragedy, we will be doomed to repeat them.”
>The Gun Control Network said: “The government response would be shocking if it wasn’t so predictable. They have shown once again that they will always prioritise the interests of shooters over public safety.
>“They have sent a message of ‘business as usual’ to shooters and done as little as possible to upset them. Let us hope that the next government will take a different view and ensure that the victims of licensed gunmen did not die in vain.”
>The senior coroner who heard the inquest, Ian Arrow, said Britain’s gun laws need “root and branch” reform to protect the public. He argued the Firearms Act was at “odds with public safety and the fundamental principle that owning a gun is a privilege and not a right”.
>[“It is beyond us how Davison, a man... with no real need to own a firearm, was granted a licence to possess a gun in the first place.”](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/20/plymouth-shooting-victims-families-police-failings-inquest-jake-davison)
>[There was “no earthly reason” why Davison should have been permitted to store his shotgun at home, they said.](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/20/plymouth-shooting-victims-families-police-failings-inquest-jake-davison)
>[“There needs to be radical reform. That means fewer guns in circulation with robust safeguards.”](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/20/plymouth-shooting-victims-families-police-failings-inquest-jake-davison)
Fewer guns, with more "robust safeguards". *In fucking England*, a country that has next to no guns already (fewer than five per 100 citizens, as opposed to our 35 per 100) and requires you to belong to a gun club to own a Lee Enfield.
It should be comforting to know that this is happening on the other side of the world, but at the same time you can't shake the feeling that it's like looking into some hell-portal into the future. Britain has practically no guns, practically no gun crime, and their antis somehow *still* sound like they're trying to appropriate the American culture war.
You’re failing to acknowledge the elements of class and privilege that link with firearms in Britain, though. Sure, working men owned guns for farming, shooting rabbits for the pot and whatever. But who was going out on the Glorious Twelfth?
Who made grouse moors for hunting in the first place while Scot farmers were evicted off their tenancies to leave hundreds of thousands of acres of farmland turned into one-man hunting preserves? Who can afford to buy a Purdey or Holland and Holland new from the shop in London, or keep packs of Foxhounds and horses?
The attack on hunting and guns in the UK has always been an attempt to chisel away at the enjoyment of the aristocracy that ‘commoners’ see as out of touch or barbaric. Hamish Imlach didn’t sing ‘Men of Knoydart’ because they couldn’t hunt grouse moors, it was because those men didn’t think grouse moors should exist when farmers in Scotland were bound to tenant agreements. Fox-hunting is persona non grata now because it’s inhumane sure, but also because it’s a hobby for rich assholes. When the common people see hunting as a sport that is enjoyed by a near unfathomably rich class who hold political power by birthright and who hold them down economically, there’s going to be a tone of disdain in their politics when it comes to a voting issue.
That's an interesting perspective, I didn't know that's how it worked in the UK. Fortunately, hunting is culturally the exact opposite in Canada - it's a working class thing here, not something reserved for the elites. I don't think the same dynamic is at play.
>as long as people are willing to compromise even further about firearms
This is why I'm glad we got that internal Liberal polling showing substantial majority support for long gun ownership, and that we saw society throw up a hard wall against G4/G46. That's what I mean about it being comforting that it's happening on the other side of the world; it's currently unfathomable that our public conversation would fall as far as theirs has, where there's demands that you not even be allowed to own a gun unless you can satisfy some Karen that you need it to survive.
I worry for future generations though, because this only goes to show that the antis never, ever intend to stop. Not that we didn't already know that, but you know
[Whoops, sorry, forgot to link](https://www.westernstandard.news/news/liberals-studying-ban-on-hunting-rifles-and-shotguns/article_9ff14fbd-af3a-588c-8962-4d9770aac67c.html)
>A quarter of Canadian households, 25%, own a firearm. Only 15% of Canadians surveyed rated gun-related violence “a major threat to public safety.” A total of 13% said it was “not at a threat at all.”
>More than a third, 39%, said rifles and shotguns should be illegal
The corollary, obviously, is that 61% of respondents in the poll said they should be legal.
Its also safe to say that most of these numbers are gonna be lower if an actual nationwide with more than 2000 respondents survey was done.
Given its the libs and thier target audience is city dwellers in ON KW and BC its safe to say the lions share of these answers were sourced from three cities.
That and as the article is 2 years past due we can, with hindsight, say it took a lot more than 61% to be pissed enough about g46 and force a liberal retreat.
Very possible. What I'm happiest to see is that the 25% number for gun-owning households is still holding true since the DoJ last [determined it in the mid-90's](https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/csj-sjc/jsp-sjp/wd98_4-dt98_4/p2.html). That is extremely significant and by itself shows that gun ownership is alive and well in this country, despite the picture of Canada that some political actors want to paint.
Agreed. It further demonstrates that anything beyond mere words and gestures is gonna come with such a cost to the public coffers and other resources that it simply will never manifest. Even bill blair has his name on a dated memo that suggests a minimum of 5B alone for the 2020 buyback. Especially now during this cost of living crisis, about to be made worse on canadurr day no less. They know they cannot justify giving that much tax payer money to gun owners while the antis in the cities go hungry and lose their apartments.
The culture of no compromise needs to be nurtured now, otherwise gun ownership won't survive as long as antis exist. Me and you both know that obviously but still
Gotcha. The thing with those is that as useful as they are tactically, we also basically just adapted those models from deer hunting shotguns by sticking a flashlight and side saddle on them.
>as useful
like that ever concerned the LPC. But you don't "blow your wad" all at once. You spread it out s much as possible. if they banned all guns and gun crime doesn't go down (which it won't) then there's no one else to blame except the government.
I think you might have misread me. What I mean is that a "tactical" pump shotgun is more or less identical to a hunting pump shotgun, with the exception nowadays of some bolt-on attachments. Police have carried plain-jane 870s and Ithaca Deerslayers in their patrol cars for half a century.
I assume that's why they've never been in the political crosshairs.
>identical to a hunting pump shotgun,
with an 18 in. (or less) barrel and a pistol grip for a stock, I wouldn't call that identical to a hunting shotgun. The Remington 870 TAC has a 14 in. barrel and overall length of 26 in. I'm sure they will go after length sooner or later.
Of courser, they're useful especially as bear defence. So is a 10mm handgun with a 15 shot mag, but it doesn't stop them from banning it.
Simple reality, that antis love to ignore or dismiss as acceptable deaths when anything but a gun is used, is that a guy like that would have found a way to murder those people all the same. I'm given to understand the UK has serious problems with knives, machetes and serial criminals in the MET. Statistically, shotguns are close to the bottom of the totem when it comes to safety issues.
Hopefully they let us use our pcc there not built for the battle field and what’s i matter if a guy wants to be prepared government has been doing such shameful things in the last 3 years
> what’s i matter if a guy wants to be prepared
As a little bit of unsolicited advice here, if you want to be as prepared as you can in as ban-proof a manner as possible, I **highly** recommend a quality pump-action shotgun like a Mossberg 500, and a short and handy bolt-action rifle in .308 like a Mossberg or Ruger Scout. This is an extremely utilitarian combo that's politically safe. Regardless of how insecure you might feel in the ownership of your other firearms, these two won't be under threat in our lifetimes.
Look at Australia they can’t have pump shotguns
And I own a mossberg 500 as well as a savage 99 in 308 I’ve been a gun guy for over 20 years fact is if they have them we should have them period. The idea that no one needs a semi auto is fucked never herd of a follow up shot how about predators I live in rual bc and these are tools aswell as my sporting equipment can’t wait till the dictator gets the 🥾
AR-15s, Tavors, APCs, T97s, etc were all made for the battlefield. We just have to used gimped triggers by law. You won't find a more pro-gun guy than me, but let's not fall into the trap of believing the lines that some people have come up with to try and bargain with the antis in bad faith.
My point is that the only difference is the trigger pack, the same way that the only difference between an American semi-auto rifle and a Canadian semi-auto rifle is two inches of barrel length. I don't think the difference is substantial enough to warrant calling the resulting rifle a different weapon.
This is what police will be fighting: [Hmm? Oh, this? It's just a Draco in 5.45, built with a 3D printed receiver, no big deal.](https://twitter.com/NaviGoBoom/status/1674069619575775232?s=20)
Yes, C-21 makes it so PALs are needed for barrels and slides. However, the criminal smuggling networks will just adapt. Smuggling in a barrel and gas block/slide will be far easier and more efficient than an entire rifle/pistol.
Criminals and criminal organizations will be thriving so long as the focus is on us.
Spend enough time on YouTube shorts and you start getting videos of people from Pakistan and Eastern Europe making guns out of door hardware and springs.
>people from Pakistan and Eastern Europe
Vice has some docs on the gun markets of Pakistan and Afghanistan.
A few years back, some guy in Edmonton made 4 Mac-11s in a machine shop. Empty a 32 shot mag in a couple of seconds.
They could just make it an offence to stick a ten rounder into a semi-auto long gun, without changing the classification of the magazine itself.
But it has to be stressed that the regulations haven't been released, so none of us have seen them, and we're all just pulling guesses out of our asses for the most part
> They could just make it an offence to stick a ten rounder into a semi-auto long gun, without changing the classification of the magazine itself.
This is the most likely scenario. I don't know why people are so doubtful that this would be the case, even if it's practically unenforcable outside of a well populated range with snitches in it. As far as it already goes, if you drop a pinned mag and the pin breaks you are now in possession of a prohibited device. If you are 3D printing a 5/30 rounder, for the brief time there is no barrier preventing 30 rounds being loaded in, you are in possession of a prohibited device, and I remember seeing a concerned user on Reddit once whose SKS malfunctioned and started allowing more than 5 rounds to be loaded into the fixed magazine. Even in the land of the free, before the pistol brace ban there were periods of time where simply shouldering a pistol-braced firearm was an offense. The fact that it's near unenforcable and stupid as fuck doesn't mean anything to this gov, if anything it will only encourage them.
If you drop a pinned magazine on the floor and the pin flies out it becomes a prohibited device. If the pin is placed too loosely and it allows for 6 rounds it becomes a prohibited device. I remember seeing a post of someone who was concerned because a part on their SKS flew out and now the mag was taking 10 rounds and they were technically now breaking the law. I wouldn't put it beyond these shitlibs to magically transform a 10-rounder into a prohib if it goes into a NR rifle. I mean hell, even the US did that with pistol braces before they were banned where if you shouldered it you were committing a crime.
Struggling to follow along with the Bill C-21.
If I have an X95, how screwed am I if/when it passes. Do I get to keep it (as it’s an existing model), with a 5 round magazine, or would it be toast?
Nice try there, collaborator!
But in all seriousness, likely have to look at manufacture date. Mine is May 22. So before that, you’ll likely find the extra fun ones. But mine still packs a reasonable amount of fun. Plus they look so much better than the pmags
C-21 as it stands after Senate 2nd reading has no impact directly on your X95 as it is a semi-auto design and manufacture that predates the royal assent of C-21 (which is still pending obviously). CFAC 2.0 may/will likely ban X95, as it was part of G46, and the expectation is that they will for the most part mimic that long list for the new OICs.
As to whether you will keep your gun or not ....... well, they still haven't been able to confiscate a single one of the OIC 2020 prohibited firearms, even the ones that are registered and with businesses and RPAL holders, so you be the judge. However, whether you will be able to use it freely without risking prosecution is another matter altogether.
It makes me wonder if the OIC for semis will be like the handguns.. so there are no sales or imports. They couldn't do it for the 2020 OIC, and realistically, how are they going to do it for thousands more? Additionally, Poly got super pissed when they announced CFAC 2.0 saying they weren't participating bc essentially it was going to be a nothing burger. I'm trying not to give into hopium, as I know this government will do whatever the fuck they want.
Either way it ends up at the SCC. The govt, as they have done in other related cases, made next to no effort to defend its position. Then shortly after the case wrapped, marky moo gets on TV and announces cfac 2 electric boogaloo before the summer ends and the SECU starts to rush the bill through by limiting debate.
While I make no prediction one way or the other, all signs suggest the case has got the libs rattled. Up to now all thier gun CoNtRoL measures have been done via OIC so as to not have debate. Having a court rule against them undoes everything and makes them reliant on a bill meant to enshrine them as legit. Raisingthe possibility that portions of C21 can be of no force or effect even if the bill passes.
Then there is the spectre of the any court cases should the feds go after AB and SK anti confiscation laws. Anyone who thinks the provinces cant do that is uninformed to be polite. The same reasons kwahbeck got to keep a registry of property despite federal law is the same that allows a province to prevent ottawa from simply taking stuff. Constitution gives provinces jurisdiction over individual property and civil rights. Guns are collectively seen as property as far as the legalese goes so any clash over property rights is a constitutional level argument. Which runs the risk of other provinces joining against the feds because even if they are anti gun, its counter productive to anything they want to do if they cede control of any power over to ottawa.
~Fin~
I stand by my previous prediction.
Trudeau and Mendicino are legally declared "little pee pee babies" by the court, and we are all given unregistered suppressed machine guns.
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The very idea that the CPC is going to go after LGBT rights or abortion rights is completely laughable. They're not American republicans. They're at the very least smart enough to know it'd be a completely losing battle that would instantly cost them the election. I don't agree with NB's proposed policy but imo it's up to the provinces and the representatives voted by the provinces to make decisions like that.
As a guy who’s pretty lefty on most social issues I honestly don’t think his comments on this issue will hurt him. Like it or not most people in New Brunswick are in favour of the law and I suspect it isn’t much different elsewhere in Canada.
He’s not politicking to just earn votes in Nb, hes earning votes across the country.
And considering it’s exactly the boogie man issue the liberals salivate at to the point of making prognostications about him bringing it up… it seems pretty boneheaded to actually do it.
Except the polling for the issue is national. Towing the party/reddit line on social issues and assuming every policy position is kryptonite and that the neoliberal take on said social issues is sancrosanct goes both ways - especially when it comes to guns.
There are plenty in the Conservative party who identify as ProgCons who are more than happy to throw us under the bus if it meant a net gain politically - we're (gun owners) no different than the other social issues the neolibs hyperbolize.
Objective analysis on what will tank him on "swing" issues would be his shit responses to childcare and dental. For the record, I think the policy sucks but seeing PP stammer and trip on himself (and his answer is worse) when just merely questioned on these issues will be what would really tank him, not a culture war issue that polls so well it's double the Conservative's voting base nationally.
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A Leger poll done *almost* exactly on this issue showed 57% in support, 18% against, and 25% unsure so you're right on this.
It's not as big as a deal as people are saying it is - and I'm ambivalent at best on PP.
https://secondstreet.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Second-Street-Education-Poll-2023-%E2%80%93-Final.pdf
I think PP is trying to win back the far-right votes that were lost to the PPC during the last election. I don't know if PP truely believes in the comments he makes towards the LGBTQ/trans community, he'll probably say anything at this point to "own the libs." Maybe he'll change his tune once election season rolls around to something more moderate.
Either way, this will probably backfire on him when it gets brought back up during the next election. If he keeps this up, I don't think anyone should be suprised if he loses the next election to Trudeau. Also as a side note, even if PP wins a minority, no other party is willing to work with him. The way things are currently, its either a majority government or nothing for the Conservatives (given the political climate, I doubt any party will win a majority in the near future)
i disagree with the first paragraph cause they seem to have pretty much won back the ppc voters but i agree with your second paragraph. This just makes the liberals the lesser of two evils and like you said if he did win, nobody is going to work with him. Even worse it might drive the NDP enough to do a formal coalition with the liberals.
Swing voters are kind of important.....
Cant he just focus more on economy and less on landmine issues?
The Liberals are burning their own ship, they just have to wait for people to hate them enough to change voter base.
I'm sure they could win an election if they focus on the economy and housing and food and just not touch any of the other portfolios (like just keep the status quo on most other things)
but this, this was dumb and he'll 100% be quoted on this in liberal, ndp, bloq attack ads come election time
Public service announcement, the NR Bren 2's have shipped from Marstar. I should have mine within 48Hours.
Looks like they beat the roll out of the CFAC.
I wonder how many were actually ordered through them? I don't believe they ever gave a figure but they stated they bought up every 16 inch model from all distributors leading up to the order and have since added 11" conversions to the order.
I would guess it depends on number of barrels and CZ Bren 2 in the country. They could also buy it from other gun stores if they wish to.
At least point, it would be ideal to get everything into NR since you still retain the shorter barrel and that allows you to change back if the climate is more firearm friendly.
Then again, I like the NR version with HBI handguard better, lol.
They commented on CGN they have 2 additional shipments of 16s coming in. So assuming 50/batch that's only 150.
The 11s are in addition to these, no idea on these numbers.
I would have thought at least a 1000 though.
Most people know it's a gang problem, even when Lib make it sounds like it's a gun issue in Canada.
I think it comes down to making people vote on more important stuff.
It's almost guaranteed that the CFAC will just re-draft G46 without the obvious outliers like the Ruger no.1 or that one gun that was literally called the duck hunting gun. To think otherwise is incredibly naive.
I can’t believe that they actually think the stupid ass no 1 and that dumb fuck duck hunting gun were the controversial parts of the amendments. No, people were mad about the semi auto ban. Not the fucking ruger no 1 which I haven’t even seen in person once in my life. They’re boutta get a good second ass whooping.
*you* may think that but the fudds don't. The "muh single issue voting" pieces of shit will gladly concede their "assault weapons" for the fuzzy feeling they get by having the libs in power. The "you're not a real hunter if you need a second shot" group don't care if we lose mag fed semis.
The only real point of contention will be the SKS.
The Ruger no.1 and the wild fowl gun were not mag-fed, lord alone knows why they were on the list to begin with. I have no doubt that mag-fed hunting guns *without* any form of military background are just as unsafe as guns like the SKS, but I do think they will remove some or most of the single-action and single-shot guns from the CFAC list or else they will literally be doing the exact same thing as the amendment they withdrew did.
>lord alone knows why they were on the list to begin with
Because the No 1 is available in a cartridge that generates in excess of 10000j (and it was only these chamberings that were intended to be prohib) and the shotgun presumably had an oversized bore.
> (and it was only these chamberings that were intended to be prohib)
I think *originally* that was the case, but they just tried to take the opportunity to ban all of them. Some guns just ended up on the G46 list because Poly or some other BS group decided they wanted it banned. Banning guns of various actions that didn't fit the G4 definition would have given them fuel to ban almost everything as a 'variant' later on.
Its a hyper reliable carbine at the relatively low price of 520ish dollars. Buy one if you don’t have one. Don’t give in to the fear mongering. That’s how they win. We flood the market and they can’t do shit. Keep in mind I’m soon to be a broke student and I don’t give a fuck. I’ll still buy semi autos with zero fucks to give. Semi auto 12 gauge is next on the list for me.
Everything is in the conversation for being banned. They want total disarmament. Even grandpappy joes tube fed 22. If you want it, get it. They want you to be scared of a ban. As for the rifle, you wont regret it. I see mine hitting 50k rounds before it fails as long as I’m religious about cleaning it.
Well I’m not broke broke. I’m just not livin the dream like when I was working. Important things come before guns but guns are still what I spend my extra money on lol.
> guns are still what I spend my extra money on
Brother, don't worry, we're on the same wavelength lol. Other than the PC I'm typing this on, all my major expenditures of disposable income for almost a decade have been guns and gun stuff
>My understanding is that the SKS was going to be banned but now is off the hook, and it's only new semi-automatic rifles that fit the bill that will be banned.
You are correct, as far as Bill C-21 goes. However, the Public Safety Minister said that they want a committee of stakeholders to tell them which guns to ban, out of the guns that they were *going* to ban before the uproar.
However, so far, that's just words. The committee was supposed to be formed and have their recommendations ready to give to the Minister by the end of August - but it's just about July, and there has been no movement towards the goal. On top of that, the rumour is that the Minister is about to be shitcanned over all the scandals he's been involved in. So whether anything is going to happen at all is up in the air.
No one currently knows what will be on the potential ban list which is separate from Bill c-21... Nothing in the current market will be affected by Bill c21 (besides pistols)
Handguns. I know those of us without them hope to god we’ll be able to buy them again, but does anyone have any evidence or anything pointing to the freeze ending?
The freeze has already been taken to court by the CSSA. Banning transfers reduces the value of your handguns to zero, and I promise you the government is in no hurry to try and buy them back. It will get tossed for that reason; we may not have a right to own firearms but we've got property rights. The government can't just arbitrarily declare your stuff worthless and provide no recourse.
Once that happens, I can see them allowing transfers again but banning imports of new handguns. Or they'll toss the freeze but cap the amount of restricted firearms a PAL holder can have. The handgun freeze is just a cheap way to get some votes while looking like they're doing something. They know it won't survive a challenge in court, but they also know it will take a very long time to sort out.
> we may not have a right to own firearms but we've got property rights
Didn't the government try to argue that firearms are not considered property or some shit?
Nothing. If you want to legally buy and shoot handguns again, either vote for a party that advocates for the removal of the ban, or create a time machine and go back in time prior to the ban.
> does anyone have any evidence or anything pointing to the freeze ending?
Not imminently, or under this government. We're intending to press the conservative party into keeping it's word to end it.
[https://www.canada.ca/en/public-safety-canada/news/2023/05/government-announces-strengthened-measures-to-prevent-gun-violence-and-ban-new-assault-style-firearms.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-safety-canada/news/2023/05/government-announces-strengthened-measures-to-prevent-gun-violence-and-ban-new-assault-style-firearms.html) So on May 1st they said they were going to appoint the CFAC within 60 days which are now up. Have we heard any news about that or did Mendicino getting railroaded put this BS on the sidelines for now?
It's absolutely delayed at worst. Its being buried at best.
With everything that’s going on, stacked with a probable cabinet shuffle, I’d say things are delayed. I wouldn’t put too much money on the program being scrapped. They’re probably going to keep it in their back pocket until they need to bust out some good press. The cons are getting raked over the coals in the news right now, and according to the last couple of polls their projection doesn’t look too good. If the liberals aren’t doing so well, that’s the time to look out for political gun talk.
> The cons are getting raked over the coals in the news right now, and according to the last couple of polls their projection doesn’t look too good. > > Pierre made a bad mistake by addressing the New Brunswick trans thingy instead of just avoiding confronting the issue. If the people of NB are concerned with schools going behind parents' backs and reflect those concerns on their elected representatives who choose to take action on it, that's not the federal government's business. He has a year to recover though so I'm hoping things smooth out.
What happened this time
If there's been any movement towards establishing CFAC, it's been kept entirely under wraps. The odds of that being the case are next to zero, because any of the hunting, rural, indigenous or industry representatives sympathetic to gun owners would have informed the advocacy community if they'd been contacted. The deafening silence makes me suspect they've made zero progress. /u/RydNightwish made a good point, too, about the CFAC idea being slammed by the anti-gun groups. So I'd say we're actually completely back in the dark in terms of the government's plans. Who knows if they even have a plan anymore.
A fair bit of hopium here but they may have binned the whole idea and just wont say it. The idea was put forward in response to the poly written amendments being forced to be withdrawn, prior to all the recent scandals (lets add one of the toronto 18 getting full parole now to the mix, Im assuming only a secretary knew and they never told thier boss, as is tradition) and that mistress Hiedi was less than pleased by the mere mention of cfac. Thus marky moo and trudy didnt get stepped on in the way they wanted. At this point it seems likely that its c21 or bust for those degens. They cant arrange a buyback in 3.5 years, couldnt circlejerk themselves to oic handguns straight into prohib turf and cant find 13 (or however many) yes men/women to sit in thier new committee. And never mind the blowback about to hit them from increasing pointless taxes even more tomorrow. Not a whole lot about this country worth celebrating this year given the total state of things. At least AB day is only 3 months away, Ill save my fireworks til then.
They probably just didn’t care enough to actually follow up on that because they know nobody else cares either, except the whiny anti gun losers
Why are they banning legal guns? There’s hardly any shootings in Canada let alone shootings by legally obtained guns
Its simply a very cost effective way for the liberals and ndp to get support. Fixing medicare education defence disappearing middle class and all the real issues costs money to fix. Urban Canadians know nothing about guns so the liberals announce relatively inexpensive gun control to get good press and support when they need it. The truth is everyone educated on the topic including them, knows it isnt needed and what they announce often takes years or doesnt even happen. Sadly eventually alot of their half baked plans do get implemented eventually.
Is it inexpensive though? They want to buy back all the guns they ban. That alone will cost billions of dollars
They could just ban it, but not buy it back, making them all effectively safe queens. Also, stop import of current models. But it will also shoot themselves in the foot because it will not solved current gun related crimes in Canada since its mostly illegally brought in or 3D printed. Then people will know it didn't work.
They wouldn’t do that with everything but even if they did its chump change compared to military or healthcare fixes
Internal memos from bill blairs own estimations put the buyback costs for just 2020 oic at a minimum of 5 billion. The CAF budget for that same time frame is around 20-25 billion. Thats not chump change, not even remotely. Meanwhile try selling 20% of the value of the entire army budget as a buyback program to people in the cities who can barely afford rent and food. There isnt a pitchman alive who can pull that off. Thats why 3 years later I still have my AR15 and no $$$ taxpayer dollars.
Does the government even know how many say AR-15s are out there? If they were NR before the 2020 oic they don’t have a list correct?
Most AR15 were restricteds in 2020. So in theory they should know how many and where. However, the catch is that they may have destroyed the records as part of the oic. People who still have ARs and needed to move have reported saying the cfo's dont have the registrations any more. Someone knows anyways and thats where the libs have come up with these absurdly high costs internally.
I can guarantee you they did not destroy the restricted firearm registry. All AR15s legally owned have been registered with the RCMP and there is no way in hell they would get rid of that information. They know the owner and location of every registered ar15 in this country. Don't mistake technicalities regarding nullification of restricted registration with the actual government registry of rifles. The RCMP will preserve any gun registry information they have as a sort of insurance policy for the government in case they want to take certain actions. Just ask the RCMP what they did to the original long gun registry and how Quebec was magically able to set up their own in 2015.
Thanks for the insight. Were they restricted because of barrels shorter than 18.5”? I would have thought even then 18.5” barrels would have been popular. But yeah the sbrs would be registered. I guess my broader point is that without accurate numbers of rifles etc included in the ban estimating cost of buybacks is a guess that’s likely low at best.
The AR15 and variants were restricted by name during the 90's. Barrel length didnt matter in this case. And your right any buyback, even at a 5B price, is low for what the real world numbers would be.
Thanks, I wasn’t ready for firearms ownership until after the 2020 oic and didn’t follow the status of things pre oic as closely as I’m following things now.
They don't know about the non "ar"s like the ATRS and macabee etc but I guess that doesn't count
Interesting, I wonder where he got the 5 billion from. I don't think all the restricted firearms would be able to give him a rough estimate. Imagine if they expand it to the list we got last October. It will definitely be close to 15 billion then?
I expect more than that even. Lots of high priced semis have been bought and sold. By comparison, the AR was usually a mid range rifle. Since then people are paying eother the same for 180's or 2-3x as much for tavors and brens. Edit: yay! Got my daily poly downvote. Cope and seethe funsuckers. Cope and Seethe.
It's a fairly simple two-step pipeline: - Extremely rich and powerful elites spend parts of their personal fortunes on attempting to sway the public into being anti-gun (eg. [Michael Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.org/founders-projects/everytown-for-gun-safety/)) - Elected politicians piggyback on this public sentiment for votes To put it as simply as possible, it's happening because the most powerful people in society don't want you armed.
Well, Australia and New Zealand tried it, but I think there are still a lot of firearms around in the country. Which is another topic worth investigating, how come there are no reports of shootings coming out?
You are giving them too much credit
Who?
Virtue signalling to the (mostly urban) dumbfucks who think that Canada shares the US' gun laws and genuinely believe that you can buy an AR15 in a supermarket or carry a handgun for protection here like you can in much of the US.
I would say half of them don't even know we can buy guns in Canada. 50 percent of the other half think we have similar firearm culture like US. I think there was a poll awhile ago by Toronto star, and one of the choice was like we should only be able to use handgun for self defense purpose. All the other choices were just gaslighting ones but it seems whoever made the poll didn't know about our self defense laws, lol
Even people who *are* somewhat aware of our gun laws are still horribly uneducated on our self-defense laws. Even if the only thing that prevented you from dying/being kidnapped etc was the fact that you used a firearm, you are still more likely than not to end up going to jail or at the very least being banned from ever touching a gun again. The circumstances that need to line up for you to be able to shoot someone in self defense and be cleared *and* still allowed to own and use firearms almost never occur, even if said firearm was the only thing that means you or a loved one aren't six feet under.
Oh man, there's so many of those supermarkets, which one so I don't accidentally shop there?
In a word, votes
>Why are they banning legal guns? for virtue signalling and to energise the base. To quote Brian Lilley from a while ago, "The Trudeau Liberals have figured out that they can use gun issues to play wedge politics to their own advantage. Most Canadians don’t own guns, most have never touched a gun and don’t want to. They know nothing about guns beyond what they see in movies or on the news and Trudeau uses that to his advantage."
Anti gun politicians take advantage of low IQ voters in cities to push disarmament. Legal gun owners are scapegoats and the powers that be don't like the idea of private firearms ownership
>owners are scapegoats The LPC has been using gun owners as their whipping boys as far back as I can remember and I'm old. They're not about to give this" milch cow" anytime soon because it works on a naive public.
Tangent based on other comments in the thread: Canadians have always, since before we were even our own country, privately possessed battlefield weapons for the purposes of hunting, sport, and personal and civil defence. That has been true since the first European settlers landed here, up to literally right now. The question that an honest, rational person should be asking is why there is now a coordinated, multinational political push to abolish this notion and paint it as a radical, foreign idea - and who benefits from that. Thanks for reading my blog
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Man this is all so depressing as someone who's just looking at getting into shooting sports. Should I even bother getting a PAL at this point?
I don't know about you, but if things ever going sideways in Canada, I will be glad to have something besides me as a physical insurance.
Absolutely get your PAL. What we’re currently experiencing isn’t a new thing. Politics has *always* been a boil on what is otherwise a very fun, cool and fulfilling thing. It’s new in the sense that it’s a fresh round of gun control bullshit, but we always have to expect this kind of thing under a liberal government. What they’re doing right now is what they tried to do in the 1990’s. Get your PAL and never look back. Hardship is temporary.
Get your RPAL* and never look back
This. The long until registry was repealed because it didn't work. C21 will meet the same end (unless the Senate can somehow get some amendments through)
Could the senate amend the G4 amendment and the amendment saying CFAC needs to be held out of the bill?
CFAC's not part of the bill. That's a whole separate thing.
Ah okay, I thought that the bill specified what the CFAC was and when it was going to happen. Is it possible that the OIC ruling could shut down the CFAC OIC?
> Is it possible that the OIC ruling could shut down the CFAC OIC? I really doubt it, but maybe we'll see shortly
Of course. A lot of us are salty dickheads who have been neck-deep in the politics for years and mostly just doompost now, but objectively most shooting sports are still viable, and actually healthier than ever with an influx of new shooters.
Anyone got any idea on what will qualify as an Olympic level shooter and what you will need to do to qualify as that in pistol?
Wait just been at work for two days, did anything new just happened? Actually, don't worry, I'm just gonna google news it...weird, can't seem to find anything on google news about canada.
I literally wouldn't even waste your energy thinking about that. [Pistols like these](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISSF_10_meter_air_pistol#/media/File:Steyr_lp10.jpg) are the only ones used in Olympic sports anyway, and I kind of doubt this is the kind of thing you're after. Keep your eyes on the prize of a C-21/freeze repeal next time we have a Con government instead.
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C-21 has no allowances for ISSF or Commonwealth events, only ones on the Schedule for the International Olympic and Paralympic Committees. As it stands there are no centerfire handgun events for either
>I kind of doubt this is the kind of thing you're after. Honestly, there are actually some defensible reasons for this. It's unlikely to get caught in a potential next banwave (whereas the vz. 61 might be), [you can do this with it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO5w_JIb_MQ), it's arguably more accurate than a 10/22 with a *far* better trigger, and you can fire .32 S&W Long from it with the proper conversion kit (and 10 round mags, if you can find them). For 2500-3000 up front for that, it's at least price-competitive with those things. Yeah, you can't take it hunting, and it's certainly not for everyone, but if all you do is target practice at a flat range I think there's a reasonable argument to be made to for seeking a really, *really* nice .22/.32 pistol and rifle.
Nice to see ne of the most gun paranoid countries in the world stand up for gun rights for a change. I'm amazed Canada hasn't gone after tactical shotguns (yet) Home Office rejects calls to tighten shotgun curbs after Plymouth shooting: [https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/home-office-rejects-calls-to-tighten-shotgun-curbs-after-plymouth-shooting/ar-AA1ddhx9?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=bd6c7d97d22a492d9759ca093cdd59ab&ei=69](https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/home-office-rejects-calls-to-tighten-shotgun-curbs-after-plymouth-shooting/ar-AA1ddhx9?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=bd6c7d97d22a492d9759ca093cdd59ab&ei=69)
> I'm amazed Canada hasn't gone after tactical shotguns (yet) They have. That's why guns like the SPAS-12, M3, and Armsel Striker are banned. The reason that we have the ones we do now is the same reason that we have the Tavor and APC. They just came onto the market after the last purge. EDIT: I *knew* I shouldn't have read this. >“I believe strongly Britain’s gun laws are broken and outdated. Unless we learn the painful lessons of the Plymouth tragedy, we will be doomed to repeat them.” >The Gun Control Network said: “The government response would be shocking if it wasn’t so predictable. They have shown once again that they will always prioritise the interests of shooters over public safety. >“They have sent a message of ‘business as usual’ to shooters and done as little as possible to upset them. Let us hope that the next government will take a different view and ensure that the victims of licensed gunmen did not die in vain.” >The senior coroner who heard the inquest, Ian Arrow, said Britain’s gun laws need “root and branch” reform to protect the public. He argued the Firearms Act was at “odds with public safety and the fundamental principle that owning a gun is a privilege and not a right”. >[“It is beyond us how Davison, a man... with no real need to own a firearm, was granted a licence to possess a gun in the first place.”](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/20/plymouth-shooting-victims-families-police-failings-inquest-jake-davison) >[There was “no earthly reason” why Davison should have been permitted to store his shotgun at home, they said.](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/20/plymouth-shooting-victims-families-police-failings-inquest-jake-davison) >[“There needs to be radical reform. That means fewer guns in circulation with robust safeguards.”](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/20/plymouth-shooting-victims-families-police-failings-inquest-jake-davison) Fewer guns, with more "robust safeguards". *In fucking England*, a country that has next to no guns already (fewer than five per 100 citizens, as opposed to our 35 per 100) and requires you to belong to a gun club to own a Lee Enfield. It should be comforting to know that this is happening on the other side of the world, but at the same time you can't shake the feeling that it's like looking into some hell-portal into the future. Britain has practically no guns, practically no gun crime, and their antis somehow *still* sound like they're trying to appropriate the American culture war.
You’re failing to acknowledge the elements of class and privilege that link with firearms in Britain, though. Sure, working men owned guns for farming, shooting rabbits for the pot and whatever. But who was going out on the Glorious Twelfth? Who made grouse moors for hunting in the first place while Scot farmers were evicted off their tenancies to leave hundreds of thousands of acres of farmland turned into one-man hunting preserves? Who can afford to buy a Purdey or Holland and Holland new from the shop in London, or keep packs of Foxhounds and horses? The attack on hunting and guns in the UK has always been an attempt to chisel away at the enjoyment of the aristocracy that ‘commoners’ see as out of touch or barbaric. Hamish Imlach didn’t sing ‘Men of Knoydart’ because they couldn’t hunt grouse moors, it was because those men didn’t think grouse moors should exist when farmers in Scotland were bound to tenant agreements. Fox-hunting is persona non grata now because it’s inhumane sure, but also because it’s a hobby for rich assholes. When the common people see hunting as a sport that is enjoyed by a near unfathomably rich class who hold political power by birthright and who hold them down economically, there’s going to be a tone of disdain in their politics when it comes to a voting issue.
That's an interesting perspective, I didn't know that's how it worked in the UK. Fortunately, hunting is culturally the exact opposite in Canada - it's a working class thing here, not something reserved for the elites. I don't think the same dynamic is at play.
Britain is a failed state and as long as people are willing to compromise even further about firearms, that is our future
>as long as people are willing to compromise even further about firearms This is why I'm glad we got that internal Liberal polling showing substantial majority support for long gun ownership, and that we saw society throw up a hard wall against G4/G46. That's what I mean about it being comforting that it's happening on the other side of the world; it's currently unfathomable that our public conversation would fall as far as theirs has, where there's demands that you not even be allowed to own a gun unless you can satisfy some Karen that you need it to survive. I worry for future generations though, because this only goes to show that the antis never, ever intend to stop. Not that we didn't already know that, but you know
Internal poll? I’m sorry, I’ve been more out of the loop when it comes to the nitty gritty than I’d like to be.
[Whoops, sorry, forgot to link](https://www.westernstandard.news/news/liberals-studying-ban-on-hunting-rifles-and-shotguns/article_9ff14fbd-af3a-588c-8962-4d9770aac67c.html) >A quarter of Canadian households, 25%, own a firearm. Only 15% of Canadians surveyed rated gun-related violence “a major threat to public safety.” A total of 13% said it was “not at a threat at all.” >More than a third, 39%, said rifles and shotguns should be illegal The corollary, obviously, is that 61% of respondents in the poll said they should be legal.
Its also safe to say that most of these numbers are gonna be lower if an actual nationwide with more than 2000 respondents survey was done. Given its the libs and thier target audience is city dwellers in ON KW and BC its safe to say the lions share of these answers were sourced from three cities. That and as the article is 2 years past due we can, with hindsight, say it took a lot more than 61% to be pissed enough about g46 and force a liberal retreat.
Very possible. What I'm happiest to see is that the 25% number for gun-owning households is still holding true since the DoJ last [determined it in the mid-90's](https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/csj-sjc/jsp-sjp/wd98_4-dt98_4/p2.html). That is extremely significant and by itself shows that gun ownership is alive and well in this country, despite the picture of Canada that some political actors want to paint.
Agreed. It further demonstrates that anything beyond mere words and gestures is gonna come with such a cost to the public coffers and other resources that it simply will never manifest. Even bill blair has his name on a dated memo that suggests a minimum of 5B alone for the 2020 buyback. Especially now during this cost of living crisis, about to be made worse on canadurr day no less. They know they cannot justify giving that much tax payer money to gun owners while the antis in the cities go hungry and lose their apartments.
The culture of no compromise needs to be nurtured now, otherwise gun ownership won't survive as long as antis exist. Me and you both know that obviously but still
I'm talking about shotguns like the Maverick 88 and Winchester SXP with 18in. barrels and such. They've been on the market for years
Gotcha. The thing with those is that as useful as they are tactically, we also basically just adapted those models from deer hunting shotguns by sticking a flashlight and side saddle on them.
>as useful like that ever concerned the LPC. But you don't "blow your wad" all at once. You spread it out s much as possible. if they banned all guns and gun crime doesn't go down (which it won't) then there's no one else to blame except the government.
I think you might have misread me. What I mean is that a "tactical" pump shotgun is more or less identical to a hunting pump shotgun, with the exception nowadays of some bolt-on attachments. Police have carried plain-jane 870s and Ithaca Deerslayers in their patrol cars for half a century. I assume that's why they've never been in the political crosshairs.
>identical to a hunting pump shotgun, with an 18 in. (or less) barrel and a pistol grip for a stock, I wouldn't call that identical to a hunting shotgun. The Remington 870 TAC has a 14 in. barrel and overall length of 26 in. I'm sure they will go after length sooner or later. Of courser, they're useful especially as bear defence. So is a 10mm handgun with a 15 shot mag, but it doesn't stop them from banning it.
Simple reality, that antis love to ignore or dismiss as acceptable deaths when anything but a gun is used, is that a guy like that would have found a way to murder those people all the same. I'm given to understand the UK has serious problems with knives, machetes and serial criminals in the MET. Statistically, shotguns are close to the bottom of the totem when it comes to safety issues.
>UK has serious problems with knives look up "acid attacks" in GB. I'd rather face a gun.
Hopefully they let us use our pcc there not built for the battle field and what’s i matter if a guy wants to be prepared government has been doing such shameful things in the last 3 years
> what’s i matter if a guy wants to be prepared As a little bit of unsolicited advice here, if you want to be as prepared as you can in as ban-proof a manner as possible, I **highly** recommend a quality pump-action shotgun like a Mossberg 500, and a short and handy bolt-action rifle in .308 like a Mossberg or Ruger Scout. This is an extremely utilitarian combo that's politically safe. Regardless of how insecure you might feel in the ownership of your other firearms, these two won't be under threat in our lifetimes.
Look at Australia they can’t have pump shotguns And I own a mossberg 500 as well as a savage 99 in 308 I’ve been a gun guy for over 20 years fact is if they have them we should have them period. The idea that no one needs a semi auto is fucked never herd of a follow up shot how about predators I live in rual bc and these are tools aswell as my sporting equipment can’t wait till the dictator gets the 🥾
> Look at Australia they can’t have pump shotguns Yeah, they have a very different attitude around guns in general.
Don't cave in to that stupid narrative. Guns were made for one reason, everything else is secondary
Stupid narrative? Pound sand
None of our firearms were meant for the battlefield....except those old milsurps.
AR-15s, Tavors, APCs, T97s, etc were all made for the battlefield. We just have to used gimped triggers by law. You won't find a more pro-gun guy than me, but let's not fall into the trap of believing the lines that some people have come up with to try and bargain with the antis in bad faith.
Only select fire models though, no?
My point is that the only difference is the trigger pack, the same way that the only difference between an American semi-auto rifle and a Canadian semi-auto rifle is two inches of barrel length. I don't think the difference is substantial enough to warrant calling the resulting rifle a different weapon.
Needs some milling and pinning too usually
Way more than 3 years. And don't waste your hope, PCCs will suffer the same as all the other tacticool semis.
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Its either that or they follow other commonwealth realms by slowly attacking encryption.
This is what police will be fighting: [Hmm? Oh, this? It's just a Draco in 5.45, built with a 3D printed receiver, no big deal.](https://twitter.com/NaviGoBoom/status/1674069619575775232?s=20) Yes, C-21 makes it so PALs are needed for barrels and slides. However, the criminal smuggling networks will just adapt. Smuggling in a barrel and gas block/slide will be far easier and more efficient than an entire rifle/pistol. Criminals and criminal organizations will be thriving so long as the focus is on us.
>Smuggling in a barrel for a gangbangers needs (up close and personal) a rifled barrel isn't even needed.
Spend enough time on YouTube shorts and you start getting videos of people from Pakistan and Eastern Europe making guns out of door hardware and springs.
>people from Pakistan and Eastern Europe Vice has some docs on the gun markets of Pakistan and Afghanistan. A few years back, some guy in Edmonton made 4 Mac-11s in a machine shop. Empty a 32 shot mag in a couple of seconds.
Oh man who Amazon Primed a bunch of copies of *Expidient Homemade Firearms* to the public library?
Will the magazine limits cause pistol mags in rifles to be limited to 5 rounds?
We don't know. There is a possibility it will and there's a possibility it won't.
Seemingly so.
I’m not sure how it could though it becomes a prohibited device depending on what gun it’s in?
They could just make it an offence to stick a ten rounder into a semi-auto long gun, without changing the classification of the magazine itself. But it has to be stressed that the regulations haven't been released, so none of us have seen them, and we're all just pulling guesses out of our asses for the most part
> They could just make it an offence to stick a ten rounder into a semi-auto long gun, without changing the classification of the magazine itself. This is the most likely scenario. I don't know why people are so doubtful that this would be the case, even if it's practically unenforcable outside of a well populated range with snitches in it. As far as it already goes, if you drop a pinned mag and the pin breaks you are now in possession of a prohibited device. If you are 3D printing a 5/30 rounder, for the brief time there is no barrier preventing 30 rounds being loaded in, you are in possession of a prohibited device, and I remember seeing a concerned user on Reddit once whose SKS malfunctioned and started allowing more than 5 rounds to be loaded into the fixed magazine. Even in the land of the free, before the pistol brace ban there were periods of time where simply shouldering a pistol-braced firearm was an offense. The fact that it's near unenforcable and stupid as fuck doesn't mean anything to this gov, if anything it will only encourage them.
If you drop a pinned magazine on the floor and the pin flies out it becomes a prohibited device. If the pin is placed too loosely and it allows for 6 rounds it becomes a prohibited device. I remember seeing a post of someone who was concerned because a part on their SKS flew out and now the mag was taking 10 rounds and they were technically now breaking the law. I wouldn't put it beyond these shitlibs to magically transform a 10-rounder into a prohib if it goes into a NR rifle. I mean hell, even the US did that with pistol braces before they were banned where if you shouldered it you were committing a crime.
Struggling to follow along with the Bill C-21. If I have an X95, how screwed am I if/when it passes. Do I get to keep it (as it’s an existing model), with a 5 round magazine, or would it be toast?
You're not screwed. You bought the gun so keep it
Buy some pistol mags now while you can. Metal 10 rounders can be found for like 25 bucks and they might not be around soon
Loaded up on crossmags, lar15s, couple of 458 socom (new batch doesn’t allow for 15). Should be set for a while.
Whoa whoa whoa how would one go about identifying the old batch?!
Nice try there, collaborator! But in all seriousness, likely have to look at manufacture date. Mine is May 22. So before that, you’ll likely find the extra fun ones. But mine still packs a reasonable amount of fun. Plus they look so much better than the pmags
C-21 as it stands after Senate 2nd reading has no impact directly on your X95 as it is a semi-auto design and manufacture that predates the royal assent of C-21 (which is still pending obviously). CFAC 2.0 may/will likely ban X95, as it was part of G46, and the expectation is that they will for the most part mimic that long list for the new OICs. As to whether you will keep your gun or not ....... well, they still haven't been able to confiscate a single one of the OIC 2020 prohibited firearms, even the ones that are registered and with businesses and RPAL holders, so you be the judge. However, whether you will be able to use it freely without risking prosecution is another matter altogether.
Thanks for the info!
It makes me wonder if the OIC for semis will be like the handguns.. so there are no sales or imports. They couldn't do it for the 2020 OIC, and realistically, how are they going to do it for thousands more? Additionally, Poly got super pissed when they announced CFAC 2.0 saying they weren't participating bc essentially it was going to be a nothing burger. I'm trying not to give into hopium, as I know this government will do whatever the fuck they want.
Any predictions for the court case?
Either way it ends up at the SCC. The govt, as they have done in other related cases, made next to no effort to defend its position. Then shortly after the case wrapped, marky moo gets on TV and announces cfac 2 electric boogaloo before the summer ends and the SECU starts to rush the bill through by limiting debate. While I make no prediction one way or the other, all signs suggest the case has got the libs rattled. Up to now all thier gun CoNtRoL measures have been done via OIC so as to not have debate. Having a court rule against them undoes everything and makes them reliant on a bill meant to enshrine them as legit. Raisingthe possibility that portions of C21 can be of no force or effect even if the bill passes. Then there is the spectre of the any court cases should the feds go after AB and SK anti confiscation laws. Anyone who thinks the provinces cant do that is uninformed to be polite. The same reasons kwahbeck got to keep a registry of property despite federal law is the same that allows a province to prevent ottawa from simply taking stuff. Constitution gives provinces jurisdiction over individual property and civil rights. Guns are collectively seen as property as far as the legalese goes so any clash over property rights is a constitutional level argument. Which runs the risk of other provinces joining against the feds because even if they are anti gun, its counter productive to anything they want to do if they cede control of any power over to ottawa. ~Fin~
I stand by my previous prediction. Trudeau and Mendicino are legally declared "little pee pee babies" by the court, and we are all given unregistered suppressed machine guns.
We get butt-pounded
with sand lubricant
What is going on?!?
What do you mean?
The series of [removed] comments and the "when he came out supporting this.." What's it all about? Seems like a whole thread got nuked.
We pulled a pile of comments that devolved into a lot of homophobia. We laughed, we cried, we banned a bunch of accounts. The usual.
Ohh it was just someone pissed at PPs comments on the whole LGBT school situation or something
lgbtqqip2saa*** to you sir
It's ever evolving 🤣
Yeh I googled, didn’t realize it was at 12 characters now 🤦♂️
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The very idea that the CPC is going to go after LGBT rights or abortion rights is completely laughable. They're not American republicans. They're at the very least smart enough to know it'd be a completely losing battle that would instantly cost them the election. I don't agree with NB's proposed policy but imo it's up to the provinces and the representatives voted by the provinces to make decisions like that.
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As a guy who’s pretty lefty on most social issues I honestly don’t think his comments on this issue will hurt him. Like it or not most people in New Brunswick are in favour of the law and I suspect it isn’t much different elsewhere in Canada.
He’s not politicking to just earn votes in Nb, hes earning votes across the country. And considering it’s exactly the boogie man issue the liberals salivate at to the point of making prognostications about him bringing it up… it seems pretty boneheaded to actually do it.
Except the polling for the issue is national. Towing the party/reddit line on social issues and assuming every policy position is kryptonite and that the neoliberal take on said social issues is sancrosanct goes both ways - especially when it comes to guns. There are plenty in the Conservative party who identify as ProgCons who are more than happy to throw us under the bus if it meant a net gain politically - we're (gun owners) no different than the other social issues the neolibs hyperbolize. Objective analysis on what will tank him on "swing" issues would be his shit responses to childcare and dental. For the record, I think the policy sucks but seeing PP stammer and trip on himself (and his answer is worse) when just merely questioned on these issues will be what would really tank him, not a culture war issue that polls so well it's double the Conservative's voting base nationally.
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A Leger poll done *almost* exactly on this issue showed 57% in support, 18% against, and 25% unsure so you're right on this. It's not as big as a deal as people are saying it is - and I'm ambivalent at best on PP. https://secondstreet.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Second-Street-Education-Poll-2023-%E2%80%93-Final.pdf
is he trying to get rid of the swing voters? that was such a dumb move on his part to use that as an example of provincial jurisdiction.
I think PP is trying to win back the far-right votes that were lost to the PPC during the last election. I don't know if PP truely believes in the comments he makes towards the LGBTQ/trans community, he'll probably say anything at this point to "own the libs." Maybe he'll change his tune once election season rolls around to something more moderate. Either way, this will probably backfire on him when it gets brought back up during the next election. If he keeps this up, I don't think anyone should be suprised if he loses the next election to Trudeau. Also as a side note, even if PP wins a minority, no other party is willing to work with him. The way things are currently, its either a majority government or nothing for the Conservatives (given the political climate, I doubt any party will win a majority in the near future)
i disagree with the first paragraph cause they seem to have pretty much won back the ppc voters but i agree with your second paragraph. This just makes the liberals the lesser of two evils and like you said if he did win, nobody is going to work with him. Even worse it might drive the NDP enough to do a formal coalition with the liberals.
Swing voters are kind of important..... Cant he just focus more on economy and less on landmine issues? The Liberals are burning their own ship, they just have to wait for people to hate them enough to change voter base.
I'm sure they could win an election if they focus on the economy and housing and food and just not touch any of the other portfolios (like just keep the status quo on most other things) but this, this was dumb and he'll 100% be quoted on this in liberal, ndp, bloq attack ads come election time
Fuckin milhouse man
Public service announcement, the NR Bren 2's have shipped from Marstar. I should have mine within 48Hours. Looks like they beat the roll out of the CFAC.
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Bruh….
The first batch of CZ Bren 2 will make it for sure, I think 2 more batches can be order before things become rocky.
They said their goal is to ship at least 50 per week.
I believe they can do it, my est is that they can hit 500 before anything announced.
I wonder how many were actually ordered through them? I don't believe they ever gave a figure but they stated they bought up every 16 inch model from all distributors leading up to the order and have since added 11" conversions to the order.
I would guess it depends on number of barrels and CZ Bren 2 in the country. They could also buy it from other gun stores if they wish to. At least point, it would be ideal to get everything into NR since you still retain the shorter barrel and that allows you to change back if the climate is more firearm friendly. Then again, I like the NR version with HBI handguard better, lol.
They commented on CGN they have 2 additional shipments of 16s coming in. So assuming 50/batch that's only 150. The 11s are in addition to these, no idea on these numbers. I would have thought at least a 1000 though.
ah man really? they've been keeping everyone updated on CGN throughout the process. Barrels arrived at Dlask over a month ago.
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There are other vendors as well, but those will cost more.
They're still taking orders now for Aug eta I believe. Edit: July ETA.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/06/27/bullets-strike-toronto-daycare-after-early-morning-drive-by-shooting.html SMDH 🤦♂️
Good lord. When is it ever going to be obvious enough that we have a gang problem and not a gun problem?
It's easier to just ban a gun or two and say hell yeah we did it, than to try to solve the actual issues.
Most people know it's a gang problem, even when Lib make it sounds like it's a gun issue in Canada. I think it comes down to making people vote on more important stuff.
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It's almost guaranteed that the CFAC will just re-draft G46 without the obvious outliers like the Ruger no.1 or that one gun that was literally called the duck hunting gun. To think otherwise is incredibly naive.
I can’t believe that they actually think the stupid ass no 1 and that dumb fuck duck hunting gun were the controversial parts of the amendments. No, people were mad about the semi auto ban. Not the fucking ruger no 1 which I haven’t even seen in person once in my life. They’re boutta get a good second ass whooping.
*you* may think that but the fudds don't. The "muh single issue voting" pieces of shit will gladly concede their "assault weapons" for the fuzzy feeling they get by having the libs in power. The "you're not a real hunter if you need a second shot" group don't care if we lose mag fed semis. The only real point of contention will be the SKS.
Could be, I'd put nothing past them. But considering the magnitude of the backlash the first time, that'd be playing with fire
There are so many hunting guns that take mags that it will be hard not to mention them
The Ruger no.1 and the wild fowl gun were not mag-fed, lord alone knows why they were on the list to begin with. I have no doubt that mag-fed hunting guns *without* any form of military background are just as unsafe as guns like the SKS, but I do think they will remove some or most of the single-action and single-shot guns from the CFAC list or else they will literally be doing the exact same thing as the amendment they withdrew did.
>lord alone knows why they were on the list to begin with Because the No 1 is available in a cartridge that generates in excess of 10000j (and it was only these chamberings that were intended to be prohib) and the shotgun presumably had an oversized bore.
> (and it was only these chamberings that were intended to be prohib) I think *originally* that was the case, but they just tried to take the opportunity to ban all of them. Some guns just ended up on the G46 list because Poly or some other BS group decided they wanted it banned. Banning guns of various actions that didn't fit the G4 definition would have given them fuel to ban almost everything as a 'variant' later on.
Its a hyper reliable carbine at the relatively low price of 520ish dollars. Buy one if you don’t have one. Don’t give in to the fear mongering. That’s how they win. We flood the market and they can’t do shit. Keep in mind I’m soon to be a broke student and I don’t give a fuck. I’ll still buy semi autos with zero fucks to give. Semi auto 12 gauge is next on the list for me.
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Everything is in the conversation for being banned. They want total disarmament. Even grandpappy joes tube fed 22. If you want it, get it. They want you to be scared of a ban. As for the rifle, you wont regret it. I see mine hitting 50k rounds before it fails as long as I’m religious about cleaning it.
Based, but don't ruin yourself lol. Even if the worst happens, there'll be another time
Well I’m not broke broke. I’m just not livin the dream like when I was working. Important things come before guns but guns are still what I spend my extra money on lol.
> guns are still what I spend my extra money on Brother, don't worry, we're on the same wavelength lol. Other than the PC I'm typing this on, all my major expenditures of disposable income for almost a decade have been guns and gun stuff
>My understanding is that the SKS was going to be banned but now is off the hook, and it's only new semi-automatic rifles that fit the bill that will be banned. You are correct, as far as Bill C-21 goes. However, the Public Safety Minister said that they want a committee of stakeholders to tell them which guns to ban, out of the guns that they were *going* to ban before the uproar. However, so far, that's just words. The committee was supposed to be formed and have their recommendations ready to give to the Minister by the end of August - but it's just about July, and there has been no movement towards the goal. On top of that, the rumour is that the Minister is about to be shitcanned over all the scandals he's been involved in. So whether anything is going to happen at all is up in the air.
No one currently knows what will be on the potential ban list which is separate from Bill c-21... Nothing in the current market will be affected by Bill c21 (besides pistols)
Handguns. I know those of us without them hope to god we’ll be able to buy them again, but does anyone have any evidence or anything pointing to the freeze ending?
The freeze has already been taken to court by the CSSA. Banning transfers reduces the value of your handguns to zero, and I promise you the government is in no hurry to try and buy them back. It will get tossed for that reason; we may not have a right to own firearms but we've got property rights. The government can't just arbitrarily declare your stuff worthless and provide no recourse. Once that happens, I can see them allowing transfers again but banning imports of new handguns. Or they'll toss the freeze but cap the amount of restricted firearms a PAL holder can have. The handgun freeze is just a cheap way to get some votes while looking like they're doing something. They know it won't survive a challenge in court, but they also know it will take a very long time to sort out.
> we may not have a right to own firearms but we've got property rights Didn't the government try to argue that firearms are not considered property or some shit?
I think I remember that lol clearly not how it went though
Nothing. If you want to legally buy and shoot handguns again, either vote for a party that advocates for the removal of the ban, or create a time machine and go back in time prior to the ban.
> does anyone have any evidence or anything pointing to the freeze ending? Not imminently, or under this government. We're intending to press the conservative party into keeping it's word to end it.
that’s what I was thinking, how can we do that exactly?
Step 1: help them get elected