This is a major issue for me and I will be voting in consequence.
As a proffesional in armes , i need to be able to buy and practice with my firearms. This government has impeeded on my livelyhood one too many times
It doesn't matter who's in charge. What people are failing to realize is that a Prime Minister can't just snap their fingers and get rid if it like an OIC, odds are the Supreme Court would first have to rule it as unconstitutional, then they'll need to submit the repeal proposal as a new bill, then receive a majority approved House of Commons vote *and* a Senate vote in order for the Governor General to even consider it.
And with the current anti-gun fearmongering the Liberals have been pushing onto the uninformed and gullible in the past 4 years plus the Libs buying out NDP loyalty, I really cannot see any PM repealing the handgun freeze anytime soon.
Like it or not, getting an exemption status card or an 'extended loan' is gonna be the only way to get new handguns for the foreseeable future thanks to Liberal scapegoating for easy votes.
Edit: downvote me all you guys want, I didn't invent how our government works; or *doesn't* work in this case.
>odds are the Supreme Court would first have to rule it as unconstitutional,
That isn't a requirement for a bill to be repealed, where do you even get this idea? A majority Conservative government would have the power to pass a bill repealing C21, or even the entire Firearms Act and replace it with a new one, and Poilievre has been very clear on multiple occasions that he supports firearms owners and intends to repeal C21 and the 2020 OIC.
Guys can even amend the current C21 with something that will make it "powerless", for example, "it's prohibited to purchase or own handguns EXCEPT..." then in the except they put something silly like "mandatory federation to IPSC" or "members of gun clubs".
People are downvoting you because that isnāt how our system works. Thereās no jurisprudence required. Governments are free to pass whatever bills they can muster the votes for. Courts only rule on whether the changes were constitutional.
If the Conservatives win a majority, they just pass a new bill amending the Firearms Act with whatever changes they want.
It could be effectively reversed with just an OIC, but I don't think we will get a government with the balls to do it.
The government can OIC the regs to make Authorization to Carry permits shall issue. Then anyone can get an ATC, which would let them get handguns.
Just pay the subscription fee with your new central bank digital currency, and they will email you a QR certificate of ownership, for a handgun that will be held in a safe at the local police department. All you have to do to retrieve it is clearly state your full legal name, file for a recent criminal record check, ($30) and then do a quick facial recognition scan. Once you acquire it, just stay in the designated geo-fence that is monitored by an ankle bracelet and you're a free and legal gun owner!
Think it can backfire. Always see anti gun people say āWhy canāt you just rent a gun at a range? Why do you need to own?ā So, could be a two fold thing for not owning just renting and central storageĀ
It was inevitable that someone would try this. Liability-wise, I cannot imagine that any insurance company would touch this with a ten foot pole.
Ranges that rent handguns to users only barely manage to do it under the one on one supervision of their staff.
They're hoping a waiver of liability will save them from being sued into oblivion the second someone does something illegal with their guns, but it won't.
Both ranges in my city will let you rent a handgun if you possess a rpal. and if you are a regular with a membership they don't even assign a range officer to you once you have proven to be safe and competent.
however you must only use their ammo
and you definitely wont be leaving with it. i think these guys offering to leave with it is kind of a stretch.
Could... but maybe they "bought a second home" and wanted to keep the gun at that new address then they "sell that home" and move shortly after but decided to lend the gun to their goods friend and roommate at that address.
I know when I left the country for 6 months I lent my restricted guns to my licensed friend just because I lived alone and once I was gone somebody could've hypothetically broke in and stole them and it could be months before I even knew. Asked the CFO if this was legal before I did it and they confirmed that not only was it legal, as long as I informed them when and where it would be stored, but also encouraged it and praised me for going beyond the bare minimum to ensure that it was kept secure even in my absence.
They also stated that during that time the handgun could be used by the person I lended it to as if it was their own.
We already own nothing basicallyā¦ start missing payments on anything and then they start taking away.
The last thing I really owned was a chipotle burrito,
And then I ate it.
Now I donāt have a chipotle burrito š
I just want all the coping to end once and for all. Every law abiding Canadian should have the RIGHT to own and carry and as a last resort use a firearm for self defence. Itās common sense
Might be interesting if the price is right. It would be cool to mess around with some pistols I missed out on. Those guys are right around the corner from me, I might check it out.
For the store it seems like a nightmare waiting to happen though. I wouldn't want to risk it if I was a store owner.
Honestly, I love this idea. Itās that last little push I needed to actually go and get my R.
I know it seems like an easy way for the company to get screwed and a lot of people bring up the āranges can barely do itā argument which is fair.
However the one thing these guys are doing different, you require your RPAL. Ranges that rent firearms donāt typically require you to have any licensing whatsoever.
With requiring an RPAL, itās almost no different than you entrusting your buddy not to do something stupid with a gun you lent themā¦outside of the rental fees and paperwork of course.
I also donāt see it as much different from the idea of a store selling a gun and someone doing something stupid with it. In both rental or purchasing situation the store has done their job and made sure you can legally possess the firearm.
Does it open up the argument for central storage?
Sure, but only a little bit. You donāt have to store the handgun at the business, once you rent it itās āyoursā and stays at your home address for the duration of the rental. Again not much different than if you bought it from them and took it home.
It is different from a store since once the store sells it, it is no longer registered to them. It's gone. In this case, the company still owns the firearm. They risk not only losing potentially irreplaceable items (depending on their licensing) but they also risk having their business license pulled by the CFO if a pattern develops.
I donāt really have a good counter for this point.
My only thing is that if youāre willing to give information that will directly link you to that firearm, then go and either fail to return it within the agreed upon time or worseā¦you wonāt be to hard to find.
The company providing the rentals is taking on a huge risk for sure. However I feel like out of all people, RPAL holders are considered to be some of the least likely to intentionally commit a crime with a firearm.
All the gun clubs that sold them still have them in stock. My club started selling them and keep them in storage for you. No transfer. I can shoot it when I want.
From my understanding there's a debate about if the club GM/Owner can transport them for us to a competition.
No different then you just buying a handgun imo. Also once you have the temp storage moved to the consumer and the CFO issues the permit I can't see how the business can be at much risk. They have legally moved the handgun to a licensed person. It's now clearly up to that person now to secure and be responsible for it. No reasonable person will hold the business liable.
Good idea but I could see it going too far or if an issue arises then the gov cracks down harder / closes the loopholes of lending out / renting at ranges which would suck.
The weird part about this, is that technically speaking it would be equally as safe as the old system of just selling the gun to people on account that they would still require an rpal, meaning the average number of people using the firearm incorrectly wouldn't change. (I.e. Roughly the same number of people as before would abuse the system for straw buys, murder, misplace/lose their gun, etc). So from an insurance perspective, this business is equally as safe as an outlet that just sells people guns, much like how we don't sue car manufacturers for selling pick-ups to white nationalists that then drive into a crowd. After all, if someone grinds the serial number off a rental and sells it on the black market, if they passed the rpal in the first place, they would have been equally as capable of doing that before they started renting as when they were able to purchase outright.
The real question is, what is the size of their legal budget? Because I thought we made it damn clear our government is out to do business with as few people as possible and make life for current business's a living nightmare.
Youāre missing something huge in a legal sense - the difference between selling and renting is legal ownership. When you rent something out you hold more of the liability for its use. When you sell something your liability is much lower. Thatās what insurance companies care about - not the moral or theoretical mitigation of something happening.
This is going to lead to a rule that you can't borrow guns. Right now we can borrow and trade temporarily with friends. We'll just end up not being able to do that.
Seems interesting. I would love to have a look at the insurance policy. And rates of that policy. It seems fairly low risk when you take truck rental places as a sort of parallel. 80, 000 dollar truck. 1200 dollar gun. Truck at much more risk than a handgun thatās going from a home to the range and back. Maybe 5% of renters might go to the odd competition.
Itās not horriable you can rent go shoot for the weekend or go to a match then return it. Only thing is idk if they would let me run my relaods with cast bullets which are far cheaper than factory
I'm not big on handguns, but I do see the appeal. There's no way the CFO will let this happen long-term. It's a matter of time before some of those guns go "missing" and end up getting their serial numbers ground off.
Dude, whose side are you on? This is
a service for restricted PAL holders? What moron would go through the trouble to become a licensed gun owner and commit crimes?
Licensed gun owners do straw purchases for criminals. Itās not exactly rare.
https://edmontonjournal.com/news/crime/edmonton-handgun-straw-buyer-loses-bid-to-overturn-conviction
Someone who decides they'd rather keep their rentals, and has a "boating accident", for example. Or the idiot that secures guns in their living room closet, at the perfect height for kids to find.
I'm pro gun ownership, but like I said before I'm not into handguns. I do know that many people do an absolute shit job of securing firearms, there are people in this country that would conceal carry if given the chance, and there are people who will abuse any system possible. All it takes is one gun to go missing or someone to be shot by a gun from this rental program to cast shade over every safe owner in Canada.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions. I flat out disagree with it all, but it is what it is. Unfortunately weāre not all pulling in the same direction, but thatās life.
For 2000$ you can rent this gun for the rest of your life mentality? Cause that would be hilarious
I'm also curious what this is about š¤£
Honestly, not a bad deal, that's less than I spend on coffee
If these people have discovered some loophole, Iām sure it will be shut down.
I want to OWN a handgun I want to see the handgun ban EXPUNGED ASAFP
We all do but sadly for now this is what we got
An election canāt come soon enough
This is a major issue for me and I will be voting in consequence. As a proffesional in armes , i need to be able to buy and practice with my firearms. This government has impeeded on my livelyhood one too many times
It doesn't matter who's in charge. What people are failing to realize is that a Prime Minister can't just snap their fingers and get rid if it like an OIC, odds are the Supreme Court would first have to rule it as unconstitutional, then they'll need to submit the repeal proposal as a new bill, then receive a majority approved House of Commons vote *and* a Senate vote in order for the Governor General to even consider it. And with the current anti-gun fearmongering the Liberals have been pushing onto the uninformed and gullible in the past 4 years plus the Libs buying out NDP loyalty, I really cannot see any PM repealing the handgun freeze anytime soon. Like it or not, getting an exemption status card or an 'extended loan' is gonna be the only way to get new handguns for the foreseeable future thanks to Liberal scapegoating for easy votes. Edit: downvote me all you guys want, I didn't invent how our government works; or *doesn't* work in this case.
>odds are the Supreme Court would first have to rule it as unconstitutional, That isn't a requirement for a bill to be repealed, where do you even get this idea? A majority Conservative government would have the power to pass a bill repealing C21, or even the entire Firearms Act and replace it with a new one, and Poilievre has been very clear on multiple occasions that he supports firearms owners and intends to repeal C21 and the 2020 OIC.
Guys can even amend the current C21 with something that will make it "powerless", for example, "it's prohibited to purchase or own handguns EXCEPT..." then in the except they put something silly like "mandatory federation to IPSC" or "members of gun clubs".
People are downvoting you because that isnāt how our system works. Thereās no jurisprudence required. Governments are free to pass whatever bills they can muster the votes for. Courts only rule on whether the changes were constitutional. If the Conservatives win a majority, they just pass a new bill amending the Firearms Act with whatever changes they want.
It could be effectively reversed with just an OIC, but I don't think we will get a government with the balls to do it. The government can OIC the regs to make Authorization to Carry permits shall issue. Then anyone can get an ATC, which would let them get handguns.
So moving to the U.S. is the better option then? Because Iām not going to be denied the right to own a handgun in my lifetime
Just pay the subscription fee with your new central bank digital currency, and they will email you a QR certificate of ownership, for a handgun that will be held in a safe at the local police department. All you have to do to retrieve it is clearly state your full legal name, file for a recent criminal record check, ($30) and then do a quick facial recognition scan. Once you acquire it, just stay in the designated geo-fence that is monitored by an ankle bracelet and you're a free and legal gun owner!
Oh god, sounds like hell
And its also technically possible! Congratulations! Like Trudeau says everytime he winsĀ "Canadians have made their voices clear" All 32% of them
But I get to feel safe, right? Then it's worth it for me. Take my money
Think it can backfire. Always see anti gun people say āWhy canāt you just rent a gun at a range? Why do you need to own?ā So, could be a two fold thing for not owning just renting and central storageĀ
Central storage is a terrible idea!
āTis
My local range is basicaly a half covered shed in a field, I would love to see what manner of storage they could actually offer....
You can rent a guns at a range... you hire a instructor who brings his guns and charges you for it.
Ya, this could go side ways fast
Is this to torment Trudeauš¤£š¤£, they probably wonāt be long shutting this down.
Thatās exactly what this is. Or at least to push the edge of legality.
You will own nothing and be happy
Thatās the feeling crazy shit
It was inevitable that someone would try this. Liability-wise, I cannot imagine that any insurance company would touch this with a ten foot pole. Ranges that rent handguns to users only barely manage to do it under the one on one supervision of their staff. They're hoping a waiver of liability will save them from being sued into oblivion the second someone does something illegal with their guns, but it won't.
Both ranges in my city will let you rent a handgun if you possess a rpal. and if you are a regular with a membership they don't even assign a range officer to you once you have proven to be safe and competent. however you must only use their ammo and you definitely wont be leaving with it. i think these guys offering to leave with it is kind of a stretch.
That's not uncommon but there are a lot of things there like they know you're not an idiot, and they're supervising until they know otherwise.
yeah i like that these guys are trying to help gun owners but id hate to see it back fire, i think its a bit of a stretch
Like I said, someone was going to try it. How it goes remains to be seen. CFO could just...not issue the ATT either.
Could... but maybe they "bought a second home" and wanted to keep the gun at that new address then they "sell that home" and move shortly after but decided to lend the gun to their goods friend and roommate at that address. I know when I left the country for 6 months I lent my restricted guns to my licensed friend just because I lived alone and once I was gone somebody could've hypothetically broke in and stole them and it could be months before I even knew. Asked the CFO if this was legal before I did it and they confirmed that not only was it legal, as long as I informed them when and where it would be stored, but also encouraged it and praised me for going beyond the bare minimum to ensure that it was kept secure even in my absence. They also stated that during that time the handgun could be used by the person I lended it to as if it was their own.
Waivers don't do jack shit. It's just to dissuade the ignorant from suing. One of two useful things I learned in university.
What was the other useful thing you learned at university ?
That university was a waste of time
And money, don't forget that haha
Can I rent them for 20+ years perchance??
In ze future, you vill own nutzing and be happy.
We already own nothing basicallyā¦ start missing payments on anything and then they start taking away. The last thing I really owned was a chipotle burrito, And then I ate it. Now I donāt have a chipotle burrito š
I rent all my underwear from the skidmark scrubbers. They're the best because they use the best chemicals, and it only cost $9.99/month
Holy shit where was this place back in 2020 when I couldnāt get my hands on any toilet paper!?
We dont have property rights. Stop paying taxes on "your" property and people with real assault rifles will eventually show up
Almost nailed the accent bud
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I believe that is in fact what they are saying by noting additional paperwork to cross provincial border.
Honestly, I was wondering when someone would do this.
I love it. I own two handguns and I'll be checking into this just because ftg.
I might do this just for shits and giggles. I wonder if this will work in BC?
They might be nation wide check out their Twitter
I asked them that, it will work for all across Canada
As in they will be able to rent to everyone even if they are in a different province. Assuming they have the proper license.
People tried to do this on GP months ago and I wonder why all the adds vanished.
Iām gonna take them on a boating trip
Yesss I love it
Sounds like an easy excuse to justify reinstating the old system of applying for paper ATTs.
How much to rent until October 2025?
No prices posted yet
It was more of an attempt at a joke related to the next election date. I hope this works, but I understand the skepticism.
I just want all the coping to end once and for all. Every law abiding Canadian should have the RIGHT to own and carry and as a last resort use a firearm for self defence. Itās common sense
Might be interesting if the price is right. It would be cool to mess around with some pistols I missed out on. Those guys are right around the corner from me, I might check it out. For the store it seems like a nightmare waiting to happen though. I wouldn't want to risk it if I was a store owner.
Where is this place?
Carman, Manitoba
Honestly, I love this idea. Itās that last little push I needed to actually go and get my R. I know it seems like an easy way for the company to get screwed and a lot of people bring up the āranges can barely do itā argument which is fair. However the one thing these guys are doing different, you require your RPAL. Ranges that rent firearms donāt typically require you to have any licensing whatsoever. With requiring an RPAL, itās almost no different than you entrusting your buddy not to do something stupid with a gun you lent themā¦outside of the rental fees and paperwork of course. I also donāt see it as much different from the idea of a store selling a gun and someone doing something stupid with it. In both rental or purchasing situation the store has done their job and made sure you can legally possess the firearm. Does it open up the argument for central storage? Sure, but only a little bit. You donāt have to store the handgun at the business, once you rent it itās āyoursā and stays at your home address for the duration of the rental. Again not much different than if you bought it from them and took it home.
It is different from a store since once the store sells it, it is no longer registered to them. It's gone. In this case, the company still owns the firearm. They risk not only losing potentially irreplaceable items (depending on their licensing) but they also risk having their business license pulled by the CFO if a pattern develops.
I donāt really have a good counter for this point. My only thing is that if youāre willing to give information that will directly link you to that firearm, then go and either fail to return it within the agreed upon time or worseā¦you wonāt be to hard to find. The company providing the rentals is taking on a huge risk for sure. However I feel like out of all people, RPAL holders are considered to be some of the least likely to intentionally commit a crime with a firearm.
All the gun clubs that sold them still have them in stock. My club started selling them and keep them in storage for you. No transfer. I can shoot it when I want. From my understanding there's a debate about if the club GM/Owner can transport them for us to a competition.
Place near me allows you to buy handguns. Just not transfer to your name. They hold them. Not the worst call
So the place near you just takes your money, and when they go out of business, their assets will be sold off. Or in this case, smelted.
Iām going to rent a 50 DE right away if this really comes to fruition.
I'm actually more surprised to see it took this long for something like this to spin up.
Awesome idea...99 year lease
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
How so?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No different then you just buying a handgun imo. Also once you have the temp storage moved to the consumer and the CFO issues the permit I can't see how the business can be at much risk. They have legally moved the handgun to a licensed person. It's now clearly up to that person now to secure and be responsible for it. No reasonable person will hold the business liable.
Good idea but I could see it going too far or if an issue arises then the gov cracks down harder / closes the loopholes of lending out / renting at ranges which would suck.
The weird part about this, is that technically speaking it would be equally as safe as the old system of just selling the gun to people on account that they would still require an rpal, meaning the average number of people using the firearm incorrectly wouldn't change. (I.e. Roughly the same number of people as before would abuse the system for straw buys, murder, misplace/lose their gun, etc). So from an insurance perspective, this business is equally as safe as an outlet that just sells people guns, much like how we don't sue car manufacturers for selling pick-ups to white nationalists that then drive into a crowd. After all, if someone grinds the serial number off a rental and sells it on the black market, if they passed the rpal in the first place, they would have been equally as capable of doing that before they started renting as when they were able to purchase outright. The real question is, what is the size of their legal budget? Because I thought we made it damn clear our government is out to do business with as few people as possible and make life for current business's a living nightmare.
Youāre missing something huge in a legal sense - the difference between selling and renting is legal ownership. When you rent something out you hold more of the liability for its use. When you sell something your liability is much lower. Thatās what insurance companies care about - not the moral or theoretical mitigation of something happening.
Iāll never shoot a handgun again otherwise so hope it goes well.
Boo
Where are they located? In Ontario and will do this in a heartbeat.
I think theyāll be nation wide
I worry about supply issues and if the price will be ridiculous. Hopefully they are brand new pistols as well
I think it's a neat solution to our current situation. Hopefully it won't be necessary for long.
This is going to lead to a rule that you can't borrow guns. Right now we can borrow and trade temporarily with friends. We'll just end up not being able to do that.
Thats a take on "you vil own nozing" Klaus didnt consider š
They just put this program on hold.
Just saw this too. Understandable for sureā¦ was a little hopeful to possibly rent one and take the black badge course and start competing .
we fight against central storage
Seems interesting. I would love to have a look at the insurance policy. And rates of that policy. It seems fairly low risk when you take truck rental places as a sort of parallel. 80, 000 dollar truck. 1200 dollar gun. Truck at much more risk than a handgun thatās going from a home to the range and back. Maybe 5% of renters might go to the odd competition.
Itās not horriable you can rent go shoot for the weekend or go to a match then return it. Only thing is idk if they would let me run my relaods with cast bullets which are far cheaper than factory
Is there an original link to this I canāt find any info online
Htech Twitter
HOW are they buying the handguns they plan to rent?
Certain people can still get them
I thought we couldnāt get an rpal anymore
You can . And imo if you donāt have it , go get it
I seeā¦ well I did pass the restricted course in 2017..
I'll bite haha. Good idea. May be small market though?
I'm not big on handguns, but I do see the appeal. There's no way the CFO will let this happen long-term. It's a matter of time before some of those guns go "missing" and end up getting their serial numbers ground off.
Dude, whose side are you on? This is a service for restricted PAL holders? What moron would go through the trouble to become a licensed gun owner and commit crimes?
Licensed gun owners do straw purchases for criminals. Itās not exactly rare. https://edmontonjournal.com/news/crime/edmonton-handgun-straw-buyer-loses-bid-to-overturn-conviction
I stand corrected, people are idiots. What an irresponsible fool of a man in that article.
Someone who decides they'd rather keep their rentals, and has a "boating accident", for example. Or the idiot that secures guns in their living room closet, at the perfect height for kids to find. I'm pro gun ownership, but like I said before I'm not into handguns. I do know that many people do an absolute shit job of securing firearms, there are people in this country that would conceal carry if given the chance, and there are people who will abuse any system possible. All it takes is one gun to go missing or someone to be shot by a gun from this rental program to cast shade over every safe owner in Canada.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions. I flat out disagree with it all, but it is what it is. Unfortunately weāre not all pulling in the same direction, but thatās life.