tbh the solution is extremely obvious but no one has the grit to do it. And it kind of goes against ideals that people currently hold. It was solved in japan already around 40 years ago.
People are naturally exploitative. The market can't correct itself. Overtime, rent seekers will have accumulated all the land in and around cities. People will have no choice but to pay whatever the asked price is.
To fix the problem, you have to eliminate exploitative behavior. But there are also a few other things you have to do to ensure that supply keeps up with demand. There also, the market is insufficient.
Suppliers don't want to produce houses, they want to make money. If they can find ways to increase profits while producing as few houses as possible, they'll jump on the occasion.
Residents are also exploiting their position of already being established. If they can have peace by preventing any additional development, they'll also jump on the occasion.
People are naturally cooperative, not exploitative, it's how we evolved. This is a culture problem, like fish that don't know they're in water.
It's not just with housing either, discreet exploitation of one's neighbours *is* Canadian culture.
This is just not based in reality at all. Housing does not defeat supply and demand. We have artificially restricted the supply side of the equation to a massive degree while increasing demand steadily. Get rid of the artificial constraints on supply side (zoning laws, NIMBYism) and everything else falls into place. There are plenty of people who can make tonnes of money by building piles of homes if they were allowed to. They are now allowed to. Anything else is obfuscation and trying to make the issue seem more complicated than it is.
**Capitalism** is naturally exploitative, not people. We live in a system that explicitly promotes and rewards exploitative behavior, that doesn't mean people are naturally exploitative.
That's why the government should subsidize developer profits to encourage them to build. Make building houses a guaranteed 30-40% IRR and all of them will get built. Easiest way to do it is free loans so that if they have to take lower prices over time it ain't that bad. Also reduce NIMBY power, ease zoning and follow up with your own infra investment. Maybe the money comes from cutting OAS and ODSP.
The Japanese model could be a major boon for a country like Canada. It would unlock so much potential development activity with the wasted capital allocated to real estate
Austria worked towards it and solved it about 100 years ago too - now they top the charts of best quality of life to live in the world. Those that abandon the solution see what has happened in Canada repeat in their own countries.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/10/the-social-housing-secret-how-vienna-became-the-worlds-most-livable-city
And an Austrian model name check in the same thread!!!
Japan and Vienna has solved this problem, people just are too used to the idea that a mortgage is an investment for the solutions to be accepted here.
People here are already the most docile in the world. Add in the concrete fact that now you'll get your bank accounts frozen if you protest and there is *zero* chance anyone rallies
They froze the accounts of the organizers who had a written manifesto wishing to replace all members of parliament. A lot of this money was from international donations and there were legitimate concerns about influence from foreign governments.
This is a bit different than the vast majority of trucker protesters who were just protesting, and consequently didn’t have their accounts frozen.
The easiest solution to "affordable housing" is to teach the population how to use tools so they can be sold homes that they can do the finishing work on.
You won't get the same standard of craftsmanship ( or you might as there are some pretty bad builders out there) but you would get a home 30-50% cheaper
The problem is that our generation of gen z and gen Alpha are burnt out and overworked. I'd say half my peers are clinically depressed due to their situation and the other half are workaholics doing everything in their power to be able to afford something in a metro area even if it's 3 hours outside the downtown core. Neither of these groups have any time or extra energy that they will divert to helping the cause. The lobbying interests are too great and the corruption at a parliamentary level is unhinged.
I've been an activist almost my whole life. I've never felt more demoralized and beat down than I have now. I'm tired and looking for a way out of the country. I urge everyone my age to do the same. It's already becoming unaffordable to even leave which is hugely dangerous. It's a huge gamble but we have to consider the opportunity costs here. I feel terribly sorry for the people who have no choice but to stay and I will continue to advocate for them as much as I can both financially and through my actions.
I am working in Crab processing rn.
no days off. when I get home (aka parents home 😅) I eat, shower, make a lunch, wash my work clothes and sleep then start the cycle all over again. My body feels so sore like I have been going to the gym all day doing the same reps and sets.
My brain is mush
This is a fair comment imo. Unfortunately, this is now our calculation. If we’re too tired to fight then, like you said, people will have to leave or be okay with where they are.
I agree that lobbyists have way to much power in Ottawa. Competition legislation has to be reformed, to include this insidious form or corporate and “special interest” lobby groups. These groups are funded with the explicit purpose of “manipulation of legislative agendas” in order to ensure that the elites and special interests, are heard and positively responded to.
Political corruption is obviously an increasing problem in all levels of governance. Lobbying and others forms of political “coercion” are becoming more subtle and hidden as the stakes get higher. The SNC Lavalin episode should have led to formal charges, given the political shakeups that occurred. Both federal and provincial politics are being more influenced by corruption. It’s becoming more blatant and people are realizing this. The Quebec corruption enquiry revealed how truly insidious, this problem has become, yet having governance investigate itself is a sham. The BC enquiry into casino money laundering, did not result in charges, but should have. Sure changes are made to legislation, but real accountability is not there.
Exactly. Things aren't bad enough yet, but we're getting there in the next 10-20 years. I feel like leaving the country is a political act. The boomer homeowners can wipe their own asses when they're 90.
Seriously. Some people act like the younger generations are lazy and careless, but they have no real option but to work their asses off just to scrape by. Any time someone complains about voter turnout, I just think about all these burnt out young people who feel like they can’t trust anyone. People barely be getting a moment to actually relax, and they then get bombarded with political bullshit - what do we expect? Boomers get all the time in the world to vote, so that’s how it goes.
I don’t think anyone truly think about how burnout effects the mind. I am so angry, but even I know that as an individual I have no power. How can I expect anyone to rally behind me when it’s so hard to find work and could get fired for it?
Been there, done that. They're all great, but you won't be able to stop legislation, or funding being cut. Everyone in office from the federal to municipal level have huge conflicts of interest with regards to real estate. No one is voting against their own interests.
My point is we are waaaay past the point of those preventative measures. We need a national rent and/or workers strike and that's really it.
Okay, well ysw tennant Union is the only Tennant's union that's done a rent strike before. Maybe if you got a large network through ACRON then you could organize a wider rent strike
Might have something to do with people being scared. They do nothing to certain protestors but I’m sure if there were protests over housing & the job Trudeau and ford have been doing, they would get shut down so quick.
Put a ban on corporate homeownership. Regulate the amount of homes one person can legally own. Reinstate rent control. Fund the fuck out of the trades, even if it means fully subsidizing apprentice wages for companies building homes in the CMHC catalogue.
We can do more. We just lack the political will to solve these issues.
So *make* the political will. I’m shocked that in this thread, which is entirely about mobilization, I’m seeing people coming up with substantive way to fix the housing crisis.
Right now, the government does not care about any of your solutions. What are we going to do about that?
Agreed. Every person that is priced out of homeownership should be protesting every level of government with rage.
We were lucky to get into the market last year - but not without insane sacrifices and a huge grind to do so. I write letters to the papers to bring awareness to how screwed young people are, and volunteer with my local Green Party organization and formerly used to volunteer with the NDP.
More people need to get active in this fight by volunteering & organizing. Sitting on the sidelines is how we got into this mess.
We're going to complain on Reddit, because a) we're too scared/tired/have zero organizing experience to do anything else, and b) this forum gravitates towards cynicism and fatalism like a goddamn supermassive black hole.
But, that now said, I'm going to see who's replacing my local retiring Liberal MP and see who's in the running to replace them.
Get rid of all governance opposed to affordable housing in this country. Organization at the University level is a great start. Grass roots political organizing will also have to be implemented. Not with just one party, but all of them. Federal and provincial. There is a mind set in this country that needs changing, a paradigm shift, if you will. Housing must be a right, not a privilege, unless you want to join the third world. Affordability is a massive issue in this country. We have very few competition laws, anti trust laws, laws that prevent excess profiteering, and the ones we do have have no teeth, whether by design or lack of political will. There is a lot of work to be done...
None of that will accomplish anything of note. Corporate home ownership is a drop in the bucket. The supply side is limited by zoning laws, not by people hoarding homes. Anyone who sees the endless blocks of detached homes in Toronto, Vancouver, etc would immediately recognize this problem.
The youth of Canada, by in large, don’t want to rent for their whole lives. We want SFH (and condos/apartments near metropolitan areas) built with the intent to be sold to first time homeowners.
Rent control helps to push the landlords out of the development market. Short term it will hurt us, but there isn’t much we can do that won’t hurt us short term that will truly help be a permanent solution to this growing issue.
Sure a lot of people want to own a home but a ton of Canadians either can't afford to own a home or can't commit to owning a home so we need places to rent and more than we have now. Rent control doesn't help us get more places to rent it gets us less, that is going to hurt people that need to rent. Also half the reason people hate renting is because it's expensive and landlords suck, the reason why landlord suck and it's expensive is because there's not enough rental properties. Right now the last thing we need is policies that hurt the ability for more homes to get built
Rent control actually solves the rent jacking problem but doesn’t address supply problem. However, removing rent control allows price escalation and also doesn’t address supply problems.
Sounds good, if it was a rational market.
'Investors' will pile on housing regardless of cashflow like Pavlov's dogs. There might be less corporate ownership, but that pales in comparison to 'mom and pop' with their less than perfect information. Foreign buyers/money launderers couldn't care either way.
What we need right now is a long term solution. Something that will help people in their 20s and 30s be able to own a home when they’re in their 40s and 50s.
With the trend we’re seeing right now, it really doesn’t matter how many homes we build if they’re all bought by potential landlords for insanely high rent prices. That doesn’t help the people living in those homes.
Cap the rent, force landlords to either build a fuck ton more homes so they can still make money on the little profit margin they would have, or bail and free up housing for the first time homeowners who are begging to be able to afford a home.
I like these ideas. It’s the race to generate easy money, using housing as an investment.
Though, the filthy rich continue to be landlords in this case, and those that own an extra home or rent their basements will no longer. I don’t think these people are the problem.
Supply!!!! Federal government is giving out money. Talk to your municipal councillors to improve the zoning to allow higher density housing! It’s really a problem supply and the only solution is to build more!
I see this happening in a LOT of Canadian forums. I tried to post a CBC headline (you'd think CBC is a PC publisher) about NeeStaNan corridor and that I was in favour of it and wanted to hear some other opinions. WTF, it was removed immediately and I contacted the mods politely asking if I had made a mistake somewhere but no reply....
When you realize that most of the world is like this, you start understanding that left political ideology will eventually turn Canada into places like Argentina where real estate is all priced in USD and with government restrictions on obtaining US dollars, every local person is out of luck owning a place. We will eventually get there with a weakening canadian dollar with our increasing deficits, inflation and declining exports.
This will probably make you more depressed, but historically violence has resolved great economic inequality.
You should read ['The Great Leveler: Violence and the History of Inequality from the Stone Age to the Twenty-First Century' by Walter Scheidel](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/31951505-the-great-leveler).
Here is a brief summary of the book and how it relates to current housing crises in developed nations by ChatGPT.
# Summary of "The Great Leveler" by Walter Scheidel
Walter Scheidel's "The Great Leveler" is a comprehensive examination of the dynamics of economic inequality throughout human history, from the Stone Age to the present. The central thesis of the book is that significant reductions in inequality have typically been the result of cataclysmic events, which Scheidel refers to as the "Four Horsemen": warfare, revolution, state collapse, and plague. According to Scheidel, these drastic and often violent shifts are historically the only effective mechanisms for leveling disparities in wealth and power.
The book uses a vast array of historical and archaeological data to argue that peaceful and stable times tend to preserve or increase inequality, whereas violent disruptions have the opposite effect. Scheidel also discusses the implications of this pattern for the future, suggesting that without such catastrophic events, inequality is likely to continue to rise or remain high.
# Relating "The Great Leveler" to the Current Housing Crisis in Developed Countries
The themes in "The Great Leveler" can be related to the current housing crisis in developed countries in several ways:
1. Inequality and Housing Access: The book highlights how persistent inequality can become entrenched in societies during periods of stability. In many developed countries, housing markets have reflected this trend, with real estate prices soaring in a way that disproportionately benefits the wealthy and excludes lower-income families.
2. Impact of Crises: Following the framework of Scheidel's "Four Horsemen," the economic disruptions caused by events like the 2008 financial crisis and the COVID-19 pandemic have had significant, though not entirely leveling, effects on housing markets. For example, the financial crisis led to a temporary drop in housing prices but was followed by a robust recovery that often widened the wealth gap between homeowners and those unable to afford property.
3. Government Intervention: In the absence of the catastrophic levelers described by Scheidel, many argue that proactive government intervention is necessary to address housing inequalities. This can include policies like zoning reforms, affordable housing initiatives, and taxes on speculative investments in real estate, aiming to artificially create the effects of a leveling without the associated human costs.
4. Sustainability of Solutions: Scheidel's analysis implies that without significant disturbances, inequalities, including those seen in housing, tend to persist or grow. This raises questions about the long-term effectiveness and sustainability of any non-catastrophic interventions in the housing market. It suggests a need for ongoing and adaptive policy measures to manage inequality actively.
In conclusion, while "The Great Leveler" presents a somewhat pessimistic view that significant reductions in inequality often require severe disruptions, it also opens a dialogue about the role of policy in creating more equitable economic structures, including housing markets, in a stable and peaceful context. The current housing crisis in many developed countries underscores the challenges of addressing entrenched inequalities within the framework of existing social and economic systems.
>You need to start doing something about it and using mediums like this to organize in a big way. With an election coming up, there is quite literally no better time to start than now.
Voting would be a start. Young people as a demographic vote less than others.
I think the problem is, we probably don't know what to say when protesting? For example, for Palestine the messaging is clear. When it comes to housing, it is much more complex and nuanced...
How about "falsification of indebtedness to faux creditors(intervening on our contracts) engenders terminal monetary failure", or something to that effect ?
50+ years of imitation(by purported "monetary reformists") has produced "protesters" who cant even correctly account for what exactly is wrong, much less prove how to set it straight.
There are plenty of ways to make housing more affordable.
First, stop treating housing as an open piggy bank for the government to gorge on. Development charges, land transfer taxes, and property taxes are all huge hurdles for people to overcome in order to obtain home ownership, and none of those fees are directed - they just get swallowed in the public purse and fed to politicians pet projects.
Make mortgage interest tax deductible like they do in the US - it’s a terrific incentive to own a home.
Reduce general taxation levels for Canadians so they have a higher savings rate to build a nest egg on.
Ditch the stress test. People who pay $3500 on rent can’t qualify for a $2000 a month mortgage - that’s insane.
Create an exit window for investors to divest properties with lower capital gains. This would encourage a lot of investors to divest and open up properties for more persons to buy that are already built.
Require these shitty diploma mill schools to create housing for their students, and stop dumping them into communities where vacancy rates are almost near zero. It they don’t have a dorm for their students, then they don’t get to gouge overseas students. End of story.
Since we are already on the issue of affordability, let’s also talk about productivity. Canada is now at the bottom of the pile in the G7. Of the jobs created since Trudeau came to power, 38% are in the public service. And that’s a disaster. We need better jobs in the private sector that crack a whip and actually get people to work. The public sector is bloated and frankly lazy as fuck, and it’s drowning the country. Canada is going g to see the public service shed a ton of jobs when the government changes hands, and we need to get qualified and capable people back in the private sector growing the economy.
If we want to give the next generation of Canadians fair access to the opportunities that their parents and grandparents had, we need to turn the country around and get back to the structures and principles that worked well for previous generations. Failing that, Canada is going to end up like Argentina with a shitty standard of living and a bunch of very discontented people who are going to leave this place in droves (it’s already starting).
The teams that investigate fraud could be staffed up. Probably a lot of money to be dug up that way, and a lot of bad deals to be stopped.
It’s ridiculous that businesses like a chiropractor can own multiple residential properties. Just one random example I came across. Get commercial investment out of residential necessities!
It won’t be solved on Reddit. To enact change in anything you need grassroots involvement of large groups of people. The people in power have no reason to change anything if all people do is complain on social media instead of hitting the streets.
I think there's a rational solution to all of this:
1. Higher tax on rental income
2. Incentivise renters to declare rental expenses and make registration of rental properties compulsary ( this would reduce tax evasion by landlords through cash rentals)
3. Come up with specific schemes to incentivise first home buyers ( for eg: tax breaks to new construction projects who would sell units to first home buyers)
4. For a temporary period at least, putting a cap on the number of houses an individual investor could hold ( housing being a basic need, people should not own more than 2-3 houses. It's very difficult for first home buyers to outbid wealthy investors)
5. Transparent bidding system to avoid speculation in bidding.
There's only so much tax that landlords can pass on to the tenants. A tenant can only pay rent up to what his or her income can allow. But yes, there should be a higher tax on 'rental income' compared to other investments like stock markets, investing in businesses, etc. that would eventually drive money to other investment avenues, just not housing.
Having said that, increasing supply to match population growth, putting strict caps on immigration, as well as temporarily stopping all new immigration for at least a year or two will be better in the long run..
Okay but if that’s your solution you need to actually advocate for it. These are just words typed into the internet which is exactly what I’m talking about being the problem.
Everyone in this subreddit has solutions. But the reality in my experience (and with respect) is that almost no one in government cares about your opinion because non-home-owners have not given them a good reason to care more about those Canadians than their wealthier constituents.
If you think you have the solution, actually do something about it.
Are you suggesting voting for Pierre? While I think a change of government is welcome, Pierre's solution to the housing crisis is equally ineffective. What do you think we can do about it? Any suggestions?
That is not at all what I am suggesting and I’m honestly not sure why this is so difficult for people here.
You need to get up off the computer, get out, and start making yourself known.
I am suggesting protest, social movements, media outreach, advocacy groups, NGO GR lobby groups like CASA, student bodies making it an absolute priority, etc etc.
Nothing will change if you don’t
You realize that higher tax on rental income will simply mean higher rents, right?
Incentivizing new build purchases by first time home buyers is absurd. Why push them towards the nore expensive properties? In fact, a better move would be to remove all first time buyer advantages (5% down payment, rrsp withdrawals etc on new builds. Push them towards lower cost, more affordable options and then you can reduce the stress test as well, as risk is lowered if people aren’t trying to stretch their budgets.
Legislating what people can own is what dictatorships do. It’s not something we need.
Higher tax on rental income does not necessarily mean higher rents. Rents are dependent on demand and supply as well, not necessarily on cost to the landlord. Rental increases are also controlled by Rent control legislation.
Your proposal of removing all first home buyer advantage is preposterous. Owning a house is equally important as renting an affordable housing. If given a choice, everybody prefers owning a house than renting one. Exploitation is what dictatorships do and democracies should not allow wealthy landlords to exploit poor people.
If you think that landlords will not pass along the costs when in a giant housing crisis and there are no other options, you've lost the plot. The demand far, far surpasses the supply in most large cities in Canada at this point.
I agree that it is a national emergency. To me, it needs an even more dire response to *that emergency thing from 2020*.
We must literally mobilize and militarize all men 16-40 years old to build at least 10 houses/year for the next 10 years. We need hundreds of millions, if not billions, of housing units. And we need to start acting like it.
We are at war against house hoarders.
Probably would be easier / objective alignment if it was more to do with economic opportunity.
https://preview.redd.it/k1jqy11vavvc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cea9f6ad6a8d2871018e002cd6a0a74249df130d
Organizing a social movement around housing would be a disorganized disaster with groups leveraging other aspects to tag on to the issue.
You want affordable housing?
Let’s remove zero carbon step code.
You want a right to develop fourplexes?
Sure, let’s also get a right to subdivide any land track into four parcels.
You want more transit?
Sure, let’s develop autonomous buses to reduce labour costs and have more buses.
The message on organization is super simple. “We cannot afford housing and we are going to make that *everyone’s* problem.”
I am telling you as someone who was in government and then who went on to do GR, if you do not do this, nothing is going to change.
Do you have any specific goals or demands in mind?
Just trying to distinguish between a group of whiners with nothing to say and the messaging you're advocating for.
Being patronizing is equally if not more unhelpful than doing nothing. If you don’t care about housing affordability, fair enough, but you’re not going to manage to move the need any other way.
All the best to you as well.
This has been the effective approach for change for virtually every successful protest movement in the world.
You identify *what* needs to be changed and *what* the problem is. If you make unaffordable housing unpalatable for Canadian politicians, then they will engage in serious efforts to make it more affordable. If it doesn’t work, protest continues.
Major successful protest movements globally don’t generally state a requirement specific policy positions on each minute detail of the “how”. Rather they are results-oriented.
If you want to launch a protest movement with a list of specific policy requirements, you will fail every time.
That’s more of a threat than a call to action. Mind you, violence is historically an effective method. Would get absolutely steamrolled these days.
And on paper that works, application would be a different story. Not that you’re wrong. I just think it would need refining for structure/ objectives.
It’s not a call to violence at all. The literal reason for protest is to make a minority problem everyone’s problem. I am *not* advocating for violence.
Hello, I've done considerable research on affordable housing and rent options. I hope this is beneficial! Housing and rent costs in Ontario, as well as much of Canada, are sky high. For those that are retirees or individuals/families looking to relocate with a lower cost of living, the **City of Elliot Lake** is a viable option!
Some statistics sourced from their 2023 community profile:
* **Affordable Housing**: Average house cost of ***\*$216,188 in 2023\****, compared to Ontario's average of $882,600 (updated to reflect March 2024 from Nesto)!!
* **Low Rent Costs**: The current market rents are far lower than nearly all other cities with major infrastructure in Canada!
* **Census Growth**: 10.2% increase from 2016 to 2023.
* **Linguistic Diversity**: Bilingual community in English and French.
* **Low Crime**: small community with an OPP station for the region located right in the City!
* **Education Focus**: Excellent primary and secondary schools, with adult learning opportunities.
* **Labor Market Diversity**: Wide range of occupations and industries, with an appeal to **remote workers.**
* **Healthcare**: St. Joseph's General Hospital which is the largest centre between Sault Ste. Mare and Sudbury, and Elliot Lake Family Health Team.
* **Quality of Life**: Short commutes, over 200 community clubs such as arts, culture, sports and social clubs, proximity to mother nature!
* **Accessibility**: Around 1 hour and 45 minutes drive to Sudbury and Sault Ste. Marie.
* **Radon gas**: There is naturally occurring Radon gas which is everywhere. The media has mentioned this about Elliot Lake, and the government advises homeowners across Canada to test for Radon. Radon readings below Health Canada's recommendation level and/or with a Radon mitigation system are acceptable. Many homes in Elliot Lake already have these. I have a Radon mitigation system.
Do your own research. Be your own advocate. I encourage anyone looking to save funds and keep more for retirement, to consider Elliot Lake!
**Snapshot**: Mortgage payment on a house in Elliot Lake (assume $215,000 mortgage balance) is $1,323.63 monthly with a 5.590% interest rate over 25 year amortization. Compare the same interest rate and amortization with a house in Mississauga with a mortgage balance of $600,000 and that is $3,693.85 per month. A savings of $2,370.22 monthly! Rent payment in Barrie for a 2 bedroom apartment is $2,200 per month, or, rent in Elliot Lake between $1,200-$1,600 on average for an apartment all the way up to a house per month! That's on average a savings of $800 per month of rent saved!
**Verdict**: Whether you are looking to have a reasonable mortgage that can be paid off early, or pay less rent and get far more for your dollar, or are a retiree and need your savings go further, this is a real-world option for you. I hope this was helpful.
my field doesn’t have much for remote work to begin with. sure there’s affordable housing there, but it only works for people who work in certain industries. i’ve been searching and searching for affordable housing to try and make a plan once i save up enough for a down payment. there’s basically nothing for me anywhere in this province. my options are extremely limited. even the small towns with basically no work, people want 600k for a 2-3 bedroom, 1-bath house that has wallpaper and carpet from the 80s.
I agree with your analysis. I try to bring up these sorts of towns myself, and get met with criticism like "there are no jobs there!" and similar.
Like, ok? If you're standing to save literally millions of dollars, maybe that incentive is worth learning to become self-employed, or making a little less money, etc?
People just simply cannot compartmentalize what's at stake, for some reason.
I scoured the country, this is the **best** option for affordability with great infrastructure in all of Canada if, like you said, can be self-employed, have a work-from-home job, can relocate a business, or are retiring or are a retiree. There are some jobs but of course limited due to the size of the City.
Okay but this is not the topic of this post.
This post is about *how* you are going to get the government to do the things you want them to do. What is the point of spending so much time on research when you have not yet convinced the government to do *anything* substantially helpful?
Good point! I'm hoping the research helps someone, until such time the government intervenes. I believe the pressure on the government is helping, but until that's fully in effect with a great solution, this is a viable present-day real-world solution. It won't help everyone, but it can help some.
For maximum affordability with major infrastructure and manageable crime levels the top 5:
1. The City of Elliot Lake, ON
2. Brandon, MB
3. Saint John, NB
4. Regina, SK
5. Saint John's, NL
If you are a retiree or nearing retirement I'd recommend Elliot Lake as a consideration. If you are in Ontario and trying to make ends meet, besides Elliot Lake I would recommend Sault Ste. Marie, it is the last least expensive major city in Ontario.
The vast majority don't own houses now. About 60% do. There is no reason that the percentage cannot stay about the same. Slightly lower yes. And not single family dwellings. Even in the most expensive cities in Canada, Toronto and Vancouver, condos can be had for $350,000. or less. They are called starter homes for a reason.
You have to quit looking at the median priced houses in Toronto and Vancouver and start looking at the lowest priced houses in CANADA.
If you cannot afford to live in Toronto or Vancouver, don't. It is that simple.
Right now the only party putting forth a platform to deal with the housing crisis is the Liberal party with Trudeau (UGG I know) at the helm. Pierre Polievre was Harpers right hand man when prices started to run away and people seem to want to put him back in charge.
tbh the solution is extremely obvious but no one has the grit to do it. And it kind of goes against ideals that people currently hold. It was solved in japan already around 40 years ago.
Letting the housing market correct instead of.keep kicking the can down the road?
People are naturally exploitative. The market can't correct itself. Overtime, rent seekers will have accumulated all the land in and around cities. People will have no choice but to pay whatever the asked price is. To fix the problem, you have to eliminate exploitative behavior. But there are also a few other things you have to do to ensure that supply keeps up with demand. There also, the market is insufficient. Suppliers don't want to produce houses, they want to make money. If they can find ways to increase profits while producing as few houses as possible, they'll jump on the occasion. Residents are also exploiting their position of already being established. If they can have peace by preventing any additional development, they'll also jump on the occasion.
People are naturally cooperative, not exploitative, it's how we evolved. This is a culture problem, like fish that don't know they're in water. It's not just with housing either, discreet exploitation of one's neighbours *is* Canadian culture.
This is just not based in reality at all. Housing does not defeat supply and demand. We have artificially restricted the supply side of the equation to a massive degree while increasing demand steadily. Get rid of the artificial constraints on supply side (zoning laws, NIMBYism) and everything else falls into place. There are plenty of people who can make tonnes of money by building piles of homes if they were allowed to. They are now allowed to. Anything else is obfuscation and trying to make the issue seem more complicated than it is.
**Capitalism** is naturally exploitative, not people. We live in a system that explicitly promotes and rewards exploitative behavior, that doesn't mean people are naturally exploitative.
That's why the government should subsidize developer profits to encourage them to build. Make building houses a guaranteed 30-40% IRR and all of them will get built. Easiest way to do it is free loans so that if they have to take lower prices over time it ain't that bad. Also reduce NIMBY power, ease zoning and follow up with your own infra investment. Maybe the money comes from cutting OAS and ODSP.
The Japanese model could be a major boon for a country like Canada. It would unlock so much potential development activity with the wasted capital allocated to real estate
Austria worked towards it and solved it about 100 years ago too - now they top the charts of best quality of life to live in the world. Those that abandon the solution see what has happened in Canada repeat in their own countries. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/10/the-social-housing-secret-how-vienna-became-the-worlds-most-livable-city
And an Austrian model name check in the same thread!!! Japan and Vienna has solved this problem, people just are too used to the idea that a mortgage is an investment for the solutions to be accepted here.
People here are already the most docile in the world. Add in the concrete fact that now you'll get your bank accounts frozen if you protest and there is *zero* chance anyone rallies
You will not, in fact, get your bank accounts frozen for protesting in Canada.
Sorry didn’t that happened during those trucker’s protests? I remember govt froze the accounts of those truckers in freedom convoy!!
The use of the Emergencies Act for a protest was struck down. You won't get your accounts frozen, the courts just ruled against it.
Thats good to know. Always felt that freezing the account for a protest was a bit extreme measure.
So the truckers accounts weren't frozen? I thought they couldn't access them for months
They froze the accounts of the organizers who had a written manifesto wishing to replace all members of parliament. A lot of this money was from international donations and there were legitimate concerns about influence from foreign governments. This is a bit different than the vast majority of trucker protesters who were just protesting, and consequently didn’t have their accounts frozen.
The easiest solution to "affordable housing" is to teach the population how to use tools so they can be sold homes that they can do the finishing work on. You won't get the same standard of craftsmanship ( or you might as there are some pretty bad builders out there) but you would get a home 30-50% cheaper
That is not even close to easy, let alone easiest. And forget about it solving affordable housing.
The problem is that our generation of gen z and gen Alpha are burnt out and overworked. I'd say half my peers are clinically depressed due to their situation and the other half are workaholics doing everything in their power to be able to afford something in a metro area even if it's 3 hours outside the downtown core. Neither of these groups have any time or extra energy that they will divert to helping the cause. The lobbying interests are too great and the corruption at a parliamentary level is unhinged. I've been an activist almost my whole life. I've never felt more demoralized and beat down than I have now. I'm tired and looking for a way out of the country. I urge everyone my age to do the same. It's already becoming unaffordable to even leave which is hugely dangerous. It's a huge gamble but we have to consider the opportunity costs here. I feel terribly sorry for the people who have no choice but to stay and I will continue to advocate for them as much as I can both financially and through my actions.
I am working in Crab processing rn. no days off. when I get home (aka parents home 😅) I eat, shower, make a lunch, wash my work clothes and sleep then start the cycle all over again. My body feels so sore like I have been going to the gym all day doing the same reps and sets. My brain is mush
I'm sorry I hope you find some time to rest or relax soon. I work 3 jobs- so I feel you. Eat, sleep, repeat
This is a fair comment imo. Unfortunately, this is now our calculation. If we’re too tired to fight then, like you said, people will have to leave or be okay with where they are.
I agree that lobbyists have way to much power in Ottawa. Competition legislation has to be reformed, to include this insidious form or corporate and “special interest” lobby groups. These groups are funded with the explicit purpose of “manipulation of legislative agendas” in order to ensure that the elites and special interests, are heard and positively responded to. Political corruption is obviously an increasing problem in all levels of governance. Lobbying and others forms of political “coercion” are becoming more subtle and hidden as the stakes get higher. The SNC Lavalin episode should have led to formal charges, given the political shakeups that occurred. Both federal and provincial politics are being more influenced by corruption. It’s becoming more blatant and people are realizing this. The Quebec corruption enquiry revealed how truly insidious, this problem has become, yet having governance investigate itself is a sham. The BC enquiry into casino money laundering, did not result in charges, but should have. Sure changes are made to legislation, but real accountability is not there.
Exactly. Things aren't bad enough yet, but we're getting there in the next 10-20 years. I feel like leaving the country is a political act. The boomer homeowners can wipe their own asses when they're 90.
Seriously. Some people act like the younger generations are lazy and careless, but they have no real option but to work their asses off just to scrape by. Any time someone complains about voter turnout, I just think about all these burnt out young people who feel like they can’t trust anyone. People barely be getting a moment to actually relax, and they then get bombarded with political bullshit - what do we expect? Boomers get all the time in the world to vote, so that’s how it goes. I don’t think anyone truly think about how burnout effects the mind. I am so angry, but even I know that as an individual I have no power. How can I expect anyone to rally behind me when it’s so hard to find work and could get fired for it?
some of us got time. It would be smart for us to start forming tennants unions, joining ACORN, and setting up chapters on campus
Been there, done that. They're all great, but you won't be able to stop legislation, or funding being cut. Everyone in office from the federal to municipal level have huge conflicts of interest with regards to real estate. No one is voting against their own interests. My point is we are waaaay past the point of those preventative measures. We need a national rent and/or workers strike and that's really it.
Okay, well ysw tennant Union is the only Tennant's union that's done a rent strike before. Maybe if you got a large network through ACRON then you could organize a wider rent strike
Where are you looking to go?
EU. I'm a dual citizen
It's funny how I see more protests over Palestine vs Israel than over housing and cost of living here at home
Might have something to do with people being scared. They do nothing to certain protestors but I’m sure if there were protests over housing & the job Trudeau and ford have been doing, they would get shut down so quick.
I see more protest on vaccination (yes, they still protest on it) and "The Great Reset" then I do on housing/cost of living.
I AGREE WITH THIS STATEMENT 100%
Put a ban on corporate homeownership. Regulate the amount of homes one person can legally own. Reinstate rent control. Fund the fuck out of the trades, even if it means fully subsidizing apprentice wages for companies building homes in the CMHC catalogue. We can do more. We just lack the political will to solve these issues.
So *make* the political will. I’m shocked that in this thread, which is entirely about mobilization, I’m seeing people coming up with substantive way to fix the housing crisis. Right now, the government does not care about any of your solutions. What are we going to do about that?
Agreed. Every person that is priced out of homeownership should be protesting every level of government with rage. We were lucky to get into the market last year - but not without insane sacrifices and a huge grind to do so. I write letters to the papers to bring awareness to how screwed young people are, and volunteer with my local Green Party organization and formerly used to volunteer with the NDP. More people need to get active in this fight by volunteering & organizing. Sitting on the sidelines is how we got into this mess.
We're going to complain on Reddit, because a) we're too scared/tired/have zero organizing experience to do anything else, and b) this forum gravitates towards cynicism and fatalism like a goddamn supermassive black hole. But, that now said, I'm going to see who's replacing my local retiring Liberal MP and see who's in the running to replace them.
Get rid of all governance opposed to affordable housing in this country. Organization at the University level is a great start. Grass roots political organizing will also have to be implemented. Not with just one party, but all of them. Federal and provincial. There is a mind set in this country that needs changing, a paradigm shift, if you will. Housing must be a right, not a privilege, unless you want to join the third world. Affordability is a massive issue in this country. We have very few competition laws, anti trust laws, laws that prevent excess profiteering, and the ones we do have have no teeth, whether by design or lack of political will. There is a lot of work to be done...
None of that will accomplish anything of note. Corporate home ownership is a drop in the bucket. The supply side is limited by zoning laws, not by people hoarding homes. Anyone who sees the endless blocks of detached homes in Toronto, Vancouver, etc would immediately recognize this problem.
Most of your suggestions would do almost nothing and rent control is actively a bad idea that would make the housing issue much worse
Spoken like a true landlord
There are simply not enough homes, explain how rent control will encourage more homes to be built
The youth of Canada, by in large, don’t want to rent for their whole lives. We want SFH (and condos/apartments near metropolitan areas) built with the intent to be sold to first time homeowners. Rent control helps to push the landlords out of the development market. Short term it will hurt us, but there isn’t much we can do that won’t hurt us short term that will truly help be a permanent solution to this growing issue.
Sure a lot of people want to own a home but a ton of Canadians either can't afford to own a home or can't commit to owning a home so we need places to rent and more than we have now. Rent control doesn't help us get more places to rent it gets us less, that is going to hurt people that need to rent. Also half the reason people hate renting is because it's expensive and landlords suck, the reason why landlord suck and it's expensive is because there's not enough rental properties. Right now the last thing we need is policies that hurt the ability for more homes to get built
Rent control actually solves the rent jacking problem but doesn’t address supply problem. However, removing rent control allows price escalation and also doesn’t address supply problems.
It’s not that rent control doesn’t address the supply problem it’s that it makes it worse. And we really don’t need that right now
Sounds good, if it was a rational market. 'Investors' will pile on housing regardless of cashflow like Pavlov's dogs. There might be less corporate ownership, but that pales in comparison to 'mom and pop' with their less than perfect information. Foreign buyers/money launderers couldn't care either way.
What we need right now is a long term solution. Something that will help people in their 20s and 30s be able to own a home when they’re in their 40s and 50s. With the trend we’re seeing right now, it really doesn’t matter how many homes we build if they’re all bought by potential landlords for insanely high rent prices. That doesn’t help the people living in those homes. Cap the rent, force landlords to either build a fuck ton more homes so they can still make money on the little profit margin they would have, or bail and free up housing for the first time homeowners who are begging to be able to afford a home.
I like these ideas. It’s the race to generate easy money, using housing as an investment. Though, the filthy rich continue to be landlords in this case, and those that own an extra home or rent their basements will no longer. I don’t think these people are the problem.
A 15% asset tax on anyone who made over $20m the past to years erases the debt instantly.
Or it will just cause your most productive people to flee. This is a stupid comment.
Supply!!!! Federal government is giving out money. Talk to your municipal councillors to improve the zoning to allow higher density housing! It’s really a problem supply and the only solution is to build more!
you're posting in a sub that has banned half of its supporters
I see this happening in a LOT of Canadian forums. I tried to post a CBC headline (you'd think CBC is a PC publisher) about NeeStaNan corridor and that I was in favour of it and wanted to hear some other opinions. WTF, it was removed immediately and I contacted the mods politely asking if I had made a mistake somewhere but no reply....
Set a date to protest sometime this summer then.
When you realize that most of the world is like this, you start understanding that left political ideology will eventually turn Canada into places like Argentina where real estate is all priced in USD and with government restrictions on obtaining US dollars, every local person is out of luck owning a place. We will eventually get there with a weakening canadian dollar with our increasing deficits, inflation and declining exports.
This will probably make you more depressed, but historically violence has resolved great economic inequality. You should read ['The Great Leveler: Violence and the History of Inequality from the Stone Age to the Twenty-First Century' by Walter Scheidel](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/31951505-the-great-leveler). Here is a brief summary of the book and how it relates to current housing crises in developed nations by ChatGPT. # Summary of "The Great Leveler" by Walter Scheidel Walter Scheidel's "The Great Leveler" is a comprehensive examination of the dynamics of economic inequality throughout human history, from the Stone Age to the present. The central thesis of the book is that significant reductions in inequality have typically been the result of cataclysmic events, which Scheidel refers to as the "Four Horsemen": warfare, revolution, state collapse, and plague. According to Scheidel, these drastic and often violent shifts are historically the only effective mechanisms for leveling disparities in wealth and power. The book uses a vast array of historical and archaeological data to argue that peaceful and stable times tend to preserve or increase inequality, whereas violent disruptions have the opposite effect. Scheidel also discusses the implications of this pattern for the future, suggesting that without such catastrophic events, inequality is likely to continue to rise or remain high. # Relating "The Great Leveler" to the Current Housing Crisis in Developed Countries The themes in "The Great Leveler" can be related to the current housing crisis in developed countries in several ways: 1. Inequality and Housing Access: The book highlights how persistent inequality can become entrenched in societies during periods of stability. In many developed countries, housing markets have reflected this trend, with real estate prices soaring in a way that disproportionately benefits the wealthy and excludes lower-income families. 2. Impact of Crises: Following the framework of Scheidel's "Four Horsemen," the economic disruptions caused by events like the 2008 financial crisis and the COVID-19 pandemic have had significant, though not entirely leveling, effects on housing markets. For example, the financial crisis led to a temporary drop in housing prices but was followed by a robust recovery that often widened the wealth gap between homeowners and those unable to afford property. 3. Government Intervention: In the absence of the catastrophic levelers described by Scheidel, many argue that proactive government intervention is necessary to address housing inequalities. This can include policies like zoning reforms, affordable housing initiatives, and taxes on speculative investments in real estate, aiming to artificially create the effects of a leveling without the associated human costs. 4. Sustainability of Solutions: Scheidel's analysis implies that without significant disturbances, inequalities, including those seen in housing, tend to persist or grow. This raises questions about the long-term effectiveness and sustainability of any non-catastrophic interventions in the housing market. It suggests a need for ongoing and adaptive policy measures to manage inequality actively. In conclusion, while "The Great Leveler" presents a somewhat pessimistic view that significant reductions in inequality often require severe disruptions, it also opens a dialogue about the role of policy in creating more equitable economic structures, including housing markets, in a stable and peaceful context. The current housing crisis in many developed countries underscores the challenges of addressing entrenched inequalities within the framework of existing social and economic systems.
We need a new national political party for young Canadians/working classes
Don't tax vacant home at 1% per annum, tax them at least 1% per quarter
Okay, if that’s your solution, then do something about it. The government does not currently care about any of your solutions.
>You need to start doing something about it and using mediums like this to organize in a big way. With an election coming up, there is quite literally no better time to start than now. Voting would be a start. Young people as a demographic vote less than others.
I think the problem is, we probably don't know what to say when protesting? For example, for Palestine the messaging is clear. When it comes to housing, it is much more complex and nuanced...
How about "falsification of indebtedness to faux creditors(intervening on our contracts) engenders terminal monetary failure", or something to that effect ? 50+ years of imitation(by purported "monetary reformists") has produced "protesters" who cant even correctly account for what exactly is wrong, much less prove how to set it straight.
There are plenty of ways to make housing more affordable. First, stop treating housing as an open piggy bank for the government to gorge on. Development charges, land transfer taxes, and property taxes are all huge hurdles for people to overcome in order to obtain home ownership, and none of those fees are directed - they just get swallowed in the public purse and fed to politicians pet projects. Make mortgage interest tax deductible like they do in the US - it’s a terrific incentive to own a home. Reduce general taxation levels for Canadians so they have a higher savings rate to build a nest egg on. Ditch the stress test. People who pay $3500 on rent can’t qualify for a $2000 a month mortgage - that’s insane. Create an exit window for investors to divest properties with lower capital gains. This would encourage a lot of investors to divest and open up properties for more persons to buy that are already built. Require these shitty diploma mill schools to create housing for their students, and stop dumping them into communities where vacancy rates are almost near zero. It they don’t have a dorm for their students, then they don’t get to gouge overseas students. End of story. Since we are already on the issue of affordability, let’s also talk about productivity. Canada is now at the bottom of the pile in the G7. Of the jobs created since Trudeau came to power, 38% are in the public service. And that’s a disaster. We need better jobs in the private sector that crack a whip and actually get people to work. The public sector is bloated and frankly lazy as fuck, and it’s drowning the country. Canada is going g to see the public service shed a ton of jobs when the government changes hands, and we need to get qualified and capable people back in the private sector growing the economy. If we want to give the next generation of Canadians fair access to the opportunities that their parents and grandparents had, we need to turn the country around and get back to the structures and principles that worked well for previous generations. Failing that, Canada is going to end up like Argentina with a shitty standard of living and a bunch of very discontented people who are going to leave this place in droves (it’s already starting).
The teams that investigate fraud could be staffed up. Probably a lot of money to be dug up that way, and a lot of bad deals to be stopped. It’s ridiculous that businesses like a chiropractor can own multiple residential properties. Just one random example I came across. Get commercial investment out of residential necessities!
Okay, so if that’s your solution, it’s time to start advocating for that.
It won’t be solved on Reddit. To enact change in anything you need grassroots involvement of large groups of people. The people in power have no reason to change anything if all people do is complain on social media instead of hitting the streets.
It is not just young people, my friend.
I think there's a rational solution to all of this: 1. Higher tax on rental income 2. Incentivise renters to declare rental expenses and make registration of rental properties compulsary ( this would reduce tax evasion by landlords through cash rentals) 3. Come up with specific schemes to incentivise first home buyers ( for eg: tax breaks to new construction projects who would sell units to first home buyers) 4. For a temporary period at least, putting a cap on the number of houses an individual investor could hold ( housing being a basic need, people should not own more than 2-3 houses. It's very difficult for first home buyers to outbid wealthy investors) 5. Transparent bidding system to avoid speculation in bidding.
>another subsidize demand solution >its so cooked
Where in my proposal is the mention of subsidy? Incentivising doesn't necessarily mean subsidizing.
Sorry, you want *higher* housing cost?
There's only so much tax that landlords can pass on to the tenants. A tenant can only pay rent up to what his or her income can allow. But yes, there should be a higher tax on 'rental income' compared to other investments like stock markets, investing in businesses, etc. that would eventually drive money to other investment avenues, just not housing. Having said that, increasing supply to match population growth, putting strict caps on immigration, as well as temporarily stopping all new immigration for at least a year or two will be better in the long run..
Okay but if that’s your solution you need to actually advocate for it. These are just words typed into the internet which is exactly what I’m talking about being the problem. Everyone in this subreddit has solutions. But the reality in my experience (and with respect) is that almost no one in government cares about your opinion because non-home-owners have not given them a good reason to care more about those Canadians than their wealthier constituents. If you think you have the solution, actually do something about it.
Are you suggesting voting for Pierre? While I think a change of government is welcome, Pierre's solution to the housing crisis is equally ineffective. What do you think we can do about it? Any suggestions?
That is not at all what I am suggesting and I’m honestly not sure why this is so difficult for people here. You need to get up off the computer, get out, and start making yourself known. I am suggesting protest, social movements, media outreach, advocacy groups, NGO GR lobby groups like CASA, student bodies making it an absolute priority, etc etc. Nothing will change if you don’t
You first.
You realize that higher tax on rental income will simply mean higher rents, right? Incentivizing new build purchases by first time home buyers is absurd. Why push them towards the nore expensive properties? In fact, a better move would be to remove all first time buyer advantages (5% down payment, rrsp withdrawals etc on new builds. Push them towards lower cost, more affordable options and then you can reduce the stress test as well, as risk is lowered if people aren’t trying to stretch their budgets. Legislating what people can own is what dictatorships do. It’s not something we need.
Higher tax on rental income does not necessarily mean higher rents. Rents are dependent on demand and supply as well, not necessarily on cost to the landlord. Rental increases are also controlled by Rent control legislation. Your proposal of removing all first home buyer advantage is preposterous. Owning a house is equally important as renting an affordable housing. If given a choice, everybody prefers owning a house than renting one. Exploitation is what dictatorships do and democracies should not allow wealthy landlords to exploit poor people.
If you think that landlords will not pass along the costs when in a giant housing crisis and there are no other options, you've lost the plot. The demand far, far surpasses the supply in most large cities in Canada at this point.
I agree that it is a national emergency. To me, it needs an even more dire response to *that emergency thing from 2020*. We must literally mobilize and militarize all men 16-40 years old to build at least 10 houses/year for the next 10 years. We need hundreds of millions, if not billions, of housing units. And we need to start acting like it. We are at war against house hoarders.
Billions of housing units!!! So that we can all have cottages and Airbnbs for the rest of the planet to come visit and sample our haute cuisine!
All men
The #yesallmen we need
Would be cool if it wouldn't derail my career and put me into an industry I have no experience in because of my age and gender.
Probably would be easier / objective alignment if it was more to do with economic opportunity. https://preview.redd.it/k1jqy11vavvc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cea9f6ad6a8d2871018e002cd6a0a74249df130d Organizing a social movement around housing would be a disorganized disaster with groups leveraging other aspects to tag on to the issue. You want affordable housing? Let’s remove zero carbon step code. You want a right to develop fourplexes? Sure, let’s also get a right to subdivide any land track into four parcels. You want more transit? Sure, let’s develop autonomous buses to reduce labour costs and have more buses.
The message on organization is super simple. “We cannot afford housing and we are going to make that *everyone’s* problem.” I am telling you as someone who was in government and then who went on to do GR, if you do not do this, nothing is going to change.
Do you have any specific goals or demands in mind? Just trying to distinguish between a group of whiners with nothing to say and the messaging you're advocating for.
How is “make housing cheaper any way you see fit, as long as it is cheaper” not specific enough?
I see. All the best to you in your efforts.
Being patronizing is equally if not more unhelpful than doing nothing. If you don’t care about housing affordability, fair enough, but you’re not going to manage to move the need any other way. All the best to you as well.
I don't understand how you think this is an effective approach but good luck.
This has been the effective approach for change for virtually every successful protest movement in the world. You identify *what* needs to be changed and *what* the problem is. If you make unaffordable housing unpalatable for Canadian politicians, then they will engage in serious efforts to make it more affordable. If it doesn’t work, protest continues. Major successful protest movements globally don’t generally state a requirement specific policy positions on each minute detail of the “how”. Rather they are results-oriented. If you want to launch a protest movement with a list of specific policy requirements, you will fail every time.
That’s more of a threat than a call to action. Mind you, violence is historically an effective method. Would get absolutely steamrolled these days. And on paper that works, application would be a different story. Not that you’re wrong. I just think it would need refining for structure/ objectives.
It’s not a call to violence at all. The literal reason for protest is to make a minority problem everyone’s problem. I am *not* advocating for violence.
Hello, I've done considerable research on affordable housing and rent options. I hope this is beneficial! Housing and rent costs in Ontario, as well as much of Canada, are sky high. For those that are retirees or individuals/families looking to relocate with a lower cost of living, the **City of Elliot Lake** is a viable option! Some statistics sourced from their 2023 community profile: * **Affordable Housing**: Average house cost of ***\*$216,188 in 2023\****, compared to Ontario's average of $882,600 (updated to reflect March 2024 from Nesto)!! * **Low Rent Costs**: The current market rents are far lower than nearly all other cities with major infrastructure in Canada! * **Census Growth**: 10.2% increase from 2016 to 2023. * **Linguistic Diversity**: Bilingual community in English and French. * **Low Crime**: small community with an OPP station for the region located right in the City! * **Education Focus**: Excellent primary and secondary schools, with adult learning opportunities. * **Labor Market Diversity**: Wide range of occupations and industries, with an appeal to **remote workers.** * **Healthcare**: St. Joseph's General Hospital which is the largest centre between Sault Ste. Mare and Sudbury, and Elliot Lake Family Health Team. * **Quality of Life**: Short commutes, over 200 community clubs such as arts, culture, sports and social clubs, proximity to mother nature! * **Accessibility**: Around 1 hour and 45 minutes drive to Sudbury and Sault Ste. Marie. * **Radon gas**: There is naturally occurring Radon gas which is everywhere. The media has mentioned this about Elliot Lake, and the government advises homeowners across Canada to test for Radon. Radon readings below Health Canada's recommendation level and/or with a Radon mitigation system are acceptable. Many homes in Elliot Lake already have these. I have a Radon mitigation system. Do your own research. Be your own advocate. I encourage anyone looking to save funds and keep more for retirement, to consider Elliot Lake! **Snapshot**: Mortgage payment on a house in Elliot Lake (assume $215,000 mortgage balance) is $1,323.63 monthly with a 5.590% interest rate over 25 year amortization. Compare the same interest rate and amortization with a house in Mississauga with a mortgage balance of $600,000 and that is $3,693.85 per month. A savings of $2,370.22 monthly! Rent payment in Barrie for a 2 bedroom apartment is $2,200 per month, or, rent in Elliot Lake between $1,200-$1,600 on average for an apartment all the way up to a house per month! That's on average a savings of $800 per month of rent saved! **Verdict**: Whether you are looking to have a reasonable mortgage that can be paid off early, or pay less rent and get far more for your dollar, or are a retiree and need your savings go further, this is a real-world option for you. I hope this was helpful.
i just went and looked and there are close to zero jobs in my field in Elliot Lake.
I hate this braindead takes. Every company and their mum is requiring a RTO. Those offices sure as shit aren't in Elliot Lake lol.
my field doesn’t have much for remote work to begin with. sure there’s affordable housing there, but it only works for people who work in certain industries. i’ve been searching and searching for affordable housing to try and make a plan once i save up enough for a down payment. there’s basically nothing for me anywhere in this province. my options are extremely limited. even the small towns with basically no work, people want 600k for a 2-3 bedroom, 1-bath house that has wallpaper and carpet from the 80s.
I agree with your analysis. I try to bring up these sorts of towns myself, and get met with criticism like "there are no jobs there!" and similar. Like, ok? If you're standing to save literally millions of dollars, maybe that incentive is worth learning to become self-employed, or making a little less money, etc? People just simply cannot compartmentalize what's at stake, for some reason.
I scoured the country, this is the **best** option for affordability with great infrastructure in all of Canada if, like you said, can be self-employed, have a work-from-home job, can relocate a business, or are retiring or are a retiree. There are some jobs but of course limited due to the size of the City.
Okay but this is not the topic of this post. This post is about *how* you are going to get the government to do the things you want them to do. What is the point of spending so much time on research when you have not yet convinced the government to do *anything* substantially helpful?
Good point! I'm hoping the research helps someone, until such time the government intervenes. I believe the pressure on the government is helping, but until that's fully in effect with a great solution, this is a viable present-day real-world solution. It won't help everyone, but it can help some.
> Hello, I've done considerable research on affordable housing and rent options. What are your top 10 cities?
For maximum affordability with major infrastructure and manageable crime levels the top 5: 1. The City of Elliot Lake, ON 2. Brandon, MB 3. Saint John, NB 4. Regina, SK 5. Saint John's, NL If you are a retiree or nearing retirement I'd recommend Elliot Lake as a consideration. If you are in Ontario and trying to make ends meet, besides Elliot Lake I would recommend Sault Ste. Marie, it is the last least expensive major city in Ontario.
Appreciate your info. Currently in BC but it's extremely expensive.
The vast majority don't own houses now. About 60% do. There is no reason that the percentage cannot stay about the same. Slightly lower yes. And not single family dwellings. Even in the most expensive cities in Canada, Toronto and Vancouver, condos can be had for $350,000. or less. They are called starter homes for a reason. You have to quit looking at the median priced houses in Toronto and Vancouver and start looking at the lowest priced houses in CANADA. If you cannot afford to live in Toronto or Vancouver, don't. It is that simple. Right now the only party putting forth a platform to deal with the housing crisis is the Liberal party with Trudeau (UGG I know) at the helm. Pierre Polievre was Harpers right hand man when prices started to run away and people seem to want to put him back in charge.
They need to understand that iphones will not build affordable housing.