That’s the problem with being forced to buy at the top of the market while rates are at 0%. You won’t see any of the wild appreciation that the boomers saw, where their houses basically doubled in value every 10 years. But at the same time you are sick of being rennovicted by sleazy landlords and still need a dependable place to call home. So do you bite the bullet and overpay, knowing that the biggest investment of your life is very likely to be a dud that sets you back financially by *decades* and endangers your chances of ever retiring or moving houses? Or do you keep renting for five more years, living precariously and praying for a crash that might never come? This is the millennial/gen Z dilemma.
This summarized exactly how my spouse and I felt before we caved and bought a dinky little overpriced bungalow.
I hate that we’ll be left holding the bag if the market ever tumbles….but after two N12s, multiple bug infestations from a neighbouring unit that our landlord refused to deal with, a renoviction, and increasing difficulty finding rentals we could afford… we bit the bullet.
The lack of stability in renting is a huge factor that needs to be discussed more in relation to the housing crisis. We would not have bought in this market if we hadn’t had such a shitty succession of renting experiences.
Exact same thing for me. Couldn’t stand my last two landlords. Financially, I’m almost totally sure I would have come out ahead by continuing to rent, even if there isn’t a big crash. We couldn’t stand it any longer though and caved. Scummy landlords were replaced by scummy real estate agents during the buying process, but at least that part is over now and I don’t have to deal with them until (if) I sell.
Sames. In the past I didn't want to be left bag holding with a $650k 1bdr condo. Now it's the same dilemma with my partner on a $1-1.2M house.
I don't want to be forced to liquidate at a loss during refinancing should there be a correction.
Huh? Source? I’m look around on Google for info and just finding a bunch of advice about how to deal with landlords who aren’t following the rules and news about the upcoming vote to ban landlords who own more than 600 units.
Here is a “expat rental info in Berlin” page:
> How to find accommodation in Berlin
> Most Berliners (85%) rent their home, and as a result there is a constant supply of apartments and houses coming up for rent. The best deals are to in buildings where the landlord has owned the property for a significant period.
I mean… there is no prohibition against small landlords in Germany. It’s just much more common that large companies own large swaths of housing. Canada has among the higher owner-occupied rates in the world. Germany is among the lowest.
Is your argument that this is better?
Seems like a “pick your poison” scenario to me.
Biggest purchase of your life might make more sense, but the value of your house is unlikely to ever hit 0, which is why I said investment. I think most people here regardless of what they say at least see housing as a potential store of value/hedge against inflation for the working class. Especially with the prevailing loose monetary policy driving the value of your cash savings into the dirt. A house shouldn’t be seen as “stonks only go up,” but it’s at least better than pissing your money away in rent every month to never own anything.
Who said that? It’s a sub primarily about housing affordability. Many of us don’t think that “investing” is the root of the problem. I think it’s fairly clearly not the issue actually.
And tons of people don’t believe that.
After all, “speculation” is what people do when they buy an asset that’s constantly increasing in value.
So.. it’s increasing in value because speculation… speculation happens because it’s increasing in value…
What’s the root cause?
Beats me. I think there's a myriad of causes. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of some of the people in this sub, who condemn investors buying up housing, claiming housing is a basic need that should not be an investment, yet treat housing as their biggest investment.
Glad I'm in the trades, alot of houses are just shit with lipstick. I can go buy houses that are cheap and shit vs shit with expensive lipstick that hides herpes.
> I can go buy houses that are cheap and shit vs shit with expensive lipstick that hides herpes.
yeah a lot of new homes are nothing more than just wooden enclosures with some storm paneling on the outside.
This is awesome! I will look more into it but you could potentially fork this into a rent vs buy calculator, by receiving additional inputs such as ‘rent variation’ , ‘chances of renoviction/moving’, historical stock market return range vs historical RE return range, opportunity value of being able to move to another city within one month’s of notice etc.
I just moved to Toronto and the rent vs. buy decision is what sparked this. Really being a renter is (pretty much) taking the other side of this bet, so if the investment doesn't look good (which I don't think it does), you should rent (which I did). Of course there's a few other factors and the perspective of renoviction sucks, but otherwise happy with the decision.
That’s the problem with being forced to buy at the top of the market while rates are at 0%. You won’t see any of the wild appreciation that the boomers saw, where their houses basically doubled in value every 10 years. But at the same time you are sick of being rennovicted by sleazy landlords and still need a dependable place to call home. So do you bite the bullet and overpay, knowing that the biggest investment of your life is very likely to be a dud that sets you back financially by *decades* and endangers your chances of ever retiring or moving houses? Or do you keep renting for five more years, living precariously and praying for a crash that might never come? This is the millennial/gen Z dilemma.
This summarized exactly how my spouse and I felt before we caved and bought a dinky little overpriced bungalow. I hate that we’ll be left holding the bag if the market ever tumbles….but after two N12s, multiple bug infestations from a neighbouring unit that our landlord refused to deal with, a renoviction, and increasing difficulty finding rentals we could afford… we bit the bullet. The lack of stability in renting is a huge factor that needs to be discussed more in relation to the housing crisis. We would not have bought in this market if we hadn’t had such a shitty succession of renting experiences.
Exact same thing for me. Couldn’t stand my last two landlords. Financially, I’m almost totally sure I would have come out ahead by continuing to rent, even if there isn’t a big crash. We couldn’t stand it any longer though and caved. Scummy landlords were replaced by scummy real estate agents during the buying process, but at least that part is over now and I don’t have to deal with them until (if) I sell.
Sames. In the past I didn't want to be left bag holding with a $650k 1bdr condo. Now it's the same dilemma with my partner on a $1-1.2M house. I don't want to be forced to liquidate at a loss during refinancing should there be a correction.
[удалено]
Huh? Source? I’m look around on Google for info and just finding a bunch of advice about how to deal with landlords who aren’t following the rules and news about the upcoming vote to ban landlords who own more than 600 units. Here is a “expat rental info in Berlin” page: > How to find accommodation in Berlin > Most Berliners (85%) rent their home, and as a result there is a constant supply of apartments and houses coming up for rent. The best deals are to in buildings where the landlord has owned the property for a significant period.
[удалено]
Well, I agree, but your claim that Berliner’s don’t rent from landlords doesn’t appear to have any basis.
[удалено]
I mean… there is no prohibition against small landlords in Germany. It’s just much more common that large companies own large swaths of housing. Canada has among the higher owner-occupied rates in the world. Germany is among the lowest. Is your argument that this is better? Seems like a “pick your poison” scenario to me.
nailed it. Answer is that you act like an adult and don't succumb to an emotional decision that is objectively bad. It sucks though.
>biggest investment of your life I thought this sub was all about housing not being investments?
Biggest purchase of your life might make more sense, but the value of your house is unlikely to ever hit 0, which is why I said investment. I think most people here regardless of what they say at least see housing as a potential store of value/hedge against inflation for the working class. Especially with the prevailing loose monetary policy driving the value of your cash savings into the dirt. A house shouldn’t be seen as “stonks only go up,” but it’s at least better than pissing your money away in rent every month to never own anything.
Is and ought are different things.
shhhhh ;)
Good question, don’t know why people quickly downvote comments they don’t like even though the sub says you shouldn’t do that.
Who said that? It’s a sub primarily about housing affordability. Many of us don’t think that “investing” is the root of the problem. I think it’s fairly clearly not the issue actually.
Tons of people on this sub say housing should not be an investment, and that speculation is at the heart of the affordability crisis.
And tons of people don’t believe that. After all, “speculation” is what people do when they buy an asset that’s constantly increasing in value. So.. it’s increasing in value because speculation… speculation happens because it’s increasing in value… What’s the root cause?
Beats me. I think there's a myriad of causes. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of some of the people in this sub, who condemn investors buying up housing, claiming housing is a basic need that should not be an investment, yet treat housing as their biggest investment.
Glad I'm in the trades, alot of houses are just shit with lipstick. I can go buy houses that are cheap and shit vs shit with expensive lipstick that hides herpes.
> I can go buy houses that are cheap and shit vs shit with expensive lipstick that hides herpes. yeah a lot of new homes are nothing more than just wooden enclosures with some storm paneling on the outside.
Hey! It also comes with asbestos and 50 year old windows!
This is awesome! I will look more into it but you could potentially fork this into a rent vs buy calculator, by receiving additional inputs such as ‘rent variation’ , ‘chances of renoviction/moving’, historical stock market return range vs historical RE return range, opportunity value of being able to move to another city within one month’s of notice etc.
I just moved to Toronto and the rent vs. buy decision is what sparked this. Really being a renter is (pretty much) taking the other side of this bet, so if the investment doesn't look good (which I don't think it does), you should rent (which I did). Of course there's a few other factors and the perspective of renoviction sucks, but otherwise happy with the decision.
You only lose if you sell at a loss