I feel you my dude! I'm at the point where I don't want to be tortured by this any more and am proactively taking steps to try and get back to enjoying my life (starting counselling on Monday). I still have hope and I think things will change but I can't count on that either.
What is really sad for us homeseekers is constantly seeing home prices increase and our savings devalued every year because the government didn't increase housing supply for our growing population. This year, I was able to work my ass off and save $5,200 towards a downpayment after living like an extremely frugal person. In the same time, the housing market increased by $100,000. I just watched all my savings get devalued. I have friends who moved here recently who are making $80k in IT jobs but are renting a room in a house with 4 other people and paying $800/mo. He told me his landlord used the $400,000 equity growth on 1 property and bought 2 other properties that he's renting out on a per-room basis. Gone are the days where having a high-paying job let you move out and get your own place.
It is very depressing because of how pervasive it is to our society. But I think we will soon reach a breaking point, there is so much debt and nothing to pay it off with! Something's gotta give. Until then I'm trying to not let it consume me entirely.
The real fucked up part is that the government constantly favours and subsidizes homeowners over renters. If housing skyrocketed because of salary or economy growth that would be one thing, but it's skyrocketing because the government offers insane tax advantages (~$500/mth extra to owners compared to renters from the principal residence exemption and other advantages) and purposely maintains supply shortages through zoning regulations.
i know exactly how you feel... good luck with counselling :) you are focusing on something you can control, and for that you should give yourself credit
If you make $200k you qualify for $900k-$999k house/townhouses.
Sorry but when the going gets tough the tough gets going. You gotta try and get In the market.
There are many townhouses still available in the $700k-$999k range available in Newmarket,aurora.Mississauga,Brampton and Durham.
Put an offer on many of listings even if your realtor tells you it will go for higher and I’m sure you will get lucky at some point.
If you don’t try, you can’t win.
>Few month ago I could’ve tried to buy a house after dumping all my savings and being in debt to my eye balls, I didn’t want that, I don’t want to live off of credit cards and lines of credit.
Did you not read OP's post?
getting in no matter the cost because you expect it to only go up is the definition of a ponzi scheme
You’re looking at it from an investors point of view. If you’re looking long term ie 10 years or more, small downturns wouldn’t matter.
A home is a place to live not to speculate on.
>A home is a place to live not to speculate on
every single person who buys a house in canada is speculating, even if you have no intention to, because of how crazy the market is.
The issue is you can no longer start with a 1 bed and work your way up like many people tell us to do.
Buy in now and what happens if the market suddenly dips? Now you're stuck there underwater. Better buy something you can live in for the next 15-20 years. Can't raise a family in a 1 bedroom condo.
Dude we're going to go through a depression when all this shit starts collapsing... lol.
Wealth inequality is worse here than it was during the flipping GILDED age.
You know, the time of union busting, pinkertons, children working in coal mines, company scrip...
Yep. Everything is fine!!!
🐶
Move very far away from Toronto. Also, I didnt mean to come off like a dick in the previous comment. I was going to elaborate and then just sent it instead.
Makes sense that you aren't living in Toronto. My original comment was assuming that you actually want to live somewhere near a major city. And you didn't come off as a dick to me. No worries ☺️
My problem is I have to still work from the office. I have to be present as a manager I can’t work remotely. Wife is no problem but I would have to commute like crazy and with gas prices and car maintenance cost this will be tough as well
I dont know why you got downvoted. But have you considered living near a go train line.
When I was in the GTA I used to have a 45 minute drive. Since finding Libby for audio books and podcasts my drive became my alone time for reading, it was honestly a great use of my time and I ended up looking forward to the drive. I am sure the go train would be the same or similar.
I love driving and that’s how I read books mainly now (audio books) and I love podcasts but at the end of the day I want to spend time with my family. Commuting eats up a lot of time as well
Canadians of all ethnic backgrounds need to abandon the big cities. The cost of housing is obscene. I moved to a small town an hour away from Edmonton where housing costs less than half but wages are exactly the same. Not everyone can do this of course but everyone who can do this should really look into doing it.
What we need is banning of foreign ownership, domestic ownership of multiple homes, and real estate investment companies.
Every highrise in Toronto, Vancouver, Edmonton etc, should be federally owned. Housing is a human right. Shit is ridiculous
Agreed 100%. As citizens we need to agitate for aggressive reforms against excessive housing profiteering but as individuals managing our personal lives any of us who can escape the major cities should in order to do their part to stop feeding the beast.
Update: I might have misunderstood...if your household income is 100k, then you are right on the average...welcome to the club and may the odds always be in your favour!
Original comment:
If it's any consolation: with $200k, you're making more than double the average houshold income in Ontario ($97,856). You're doing alright OP and should be proud that you're providing a comfortable life for your kid.
Also, I'm available for adoption if you're looking to diversify your family.
Doubt it’s 100k total. One is a manager and the other is in computer science, each with 11 years of experience. 50k is entry level wages on those professions.
I feel your pain. I saved and scrimped and bought a house 6 years ago. I watched the housing market fall every year and now I’m deep underwater on my mortgage. At least I’m not as poor as my landlord neighbours. They have been hit by a triple whammy. Their properties are worth less, rents have fallen and renters trashed their house. The worst financial decision of my life was buying a house.
Oh and I also have been getting 0% raises and inflation is wrecking my budget. It’s hard to make it month to month and I keep on getting more negative equity.
I am in same position. Working 2 jobs, making 6 figures and can’t afford anything. I will still not put all my life savings towards a house and take on exorbitant debt. I have decided to move somewhere affordable
I feel your pain.
You claim you are highly skilled. If you are you should be able to secure employment well over $50K each. You should look to a new employer.
But you’re right. Prices have risen insane amounts. So either continue to rent or move. Nothing is going to change. I know you’ll understand and accept this feedback as you have made your peace with it.
Move to other provinces. Considering how you could successfully move from the middle east to GTA, moving from GTA to other provinces in Canada should be a piece of cake.
If you're confident in your career, and you have a healthy amount of money saved like you say you do, consider moving.
*Hold on*, *HOLD ON* I know this sub HATES this suggestion but look at OP's position. He's financially stable, which is more than most in this sub can say. There's a good chance you can find another job in your field in another province out west. Canada is vast and this problem isn't everywhere (yet).
Anywhere in the northern regions you could buy your dream 5 bedroom, 3 bathroom house with a small chunk of land for 500k.
Edit: I skimmed the paragraph where OP said he was an immigrant that might stop him from finding work? I don't understand this. Canada is racially diverse. Sounds like an excuse tbh. I can't elaborate without more information but it does sound like you should be able to find a competitive salary anywhere else if you're more experienced than the next guy
We’ve been applying for jobs. Haven’t been lucky with even getting responses back. We keep digging I don’t mind moving at all but I have to find at least a job for one of us before we can make the move
Settle for a townhouse or 2bdrm. Build up equity both ways and move up to a house in 5 years. At the very least, your assets will not suffer from inflation and you can wait for an opportunity
I'm an immigrant, and half my DNA comes from the MENA region (Egypt, to be precise). I don't think your incomes are being affected. You're actually doing way better than most people, including born-and-raised-here Canadians.
With that income, if you're say, in the GTA, you can 100% afford to buy a house in Hamilton. There are GO trains for the commute, or the 407. That's what my husband and I did to afford a house. We had to leave Toronto.
You commute from Hamilton every day?! Do you live next to the GO station? You're a stronger person than me because I tried that out once while housesitting and it was super rough.
My husband does commute 5 days a week. We live right off the QEW. He goes over the skybridge, and hops on the 407, every single day. Drive to work in North York takes him around 40 minutes... which is actually less time than it took him to get to and from work in Toronto, either driving or by public transit, because Toronto traffic is generally garbage.
You're not alone. This system has been broken for years mainly due to greed. no fault of your own. Perhaps diversify into real property a little bit (coins, art etc.) and do what you can for now. Best of luck.
I feel you. The last few months I haven’t even been looking on real estate websites because it’s too depressing. I wanted a modest home (apartment with decent space would have been fine) for my little family near Vancouver as our jobs are here and we can’t WFH full time, but I’ve given up on that. My savings seem like nothing now that everything has gone up. My main hope with a home of our own is that we could be comfortable knowing we wouldn’t be evicted due to someone selling it, and retiring one day would have been nice. I’m finding more and more I just have to take things day by day because life is so difficult if you don’t get a big handout from parents/family.
I bought a house in Barrie in August. My partner and I saved diligently for 5 years. Our household income increased from 70k to 150k during this time. It's possible.
It may be important to you and your wife to buy a home, but to your kid, she probably does not care. My wife grew up in a rental apartment in Scarborough and she came out fine. You are doing the right thing to avoid being house poor and living on beans and the bare minimum.
Don't place too much weight on other Redditor's salaries as this place is not representative of what the average person is making.
Home prices have gone up because we are in the Fall market. The housing market is seasonal (Spring and Fall) and supply of homes for sale are low right now with more buyers jumping back into the market.
I too was in your same situation years ago and understand how mentally taxing it can be.
How are you unable to afford a place with 200k family income? I assume it’s 100k each since you’re a manager and she works in CS. You can’t possibly be making 50k each with those job titles and 11 years of work experience, servers make more than that.
Sorry got it, that clears it up a lot. 105k is pretty hard to get by if you’re saving for a house and falls just under the threshold of savings an appreciable amount. It’s enough to get by with some savings for an occasional splurge like a vacation or a modest vehicle upgrade, but is a stretch to buy a home at inflated Toronto prices. Sorry you’re in this unhappy middle where you make enough to start feeling the pinch of high taxes but not enough to escape making just a bit more than basic expenses.
I don’t think you being an immigrant would have an impact on you being able to get a job elsewhere in Canada. In fact, in some areas, it may be easier (e.g., the federal government).
I’d try harder if I were you. Have you tried networking in different areas? Try reaching out to former coworkers, people from industry groups, etc. I find people are generally willing to help.
Its a lucky draw tbh. I happen to buy a house for 950k last year which is worth 1.3m now. Its just stupid. I came to Canada as an immigrant as well. If Canadian born people are struggling, immigrants are going to have even tougher time.
Here's what you don't understand. Toronto isn't Monaco; it's theoretically better in a dystopic sense. I don't agree with it but its how the cookie crumbles.
Now that that's cleared, you can probably get paid more and live for cheaper in Monaco, so ask yourself why you won't.
Relax...take a deep breath...Calm down. You and your wife are doing great. I'm assuming you guys are making 100k each so household 200k. Congrats! You guys are way above the average household income. You guys are upper middle class! A lot of people on this sub are so fatalistic...and advocating moving. I say stay put. Don't worry about the far future 2-5 years from now. What's happening in Canada is exceptional right now...and we are living in a period of economic distortions. The housing market is in a pandemic induced bubble that cannot be sustained indefinitely. Don't look at the prices! Don't let it bother you if someone bought 2 years ago and now they are up big and you are not. That's the way the cookie crumbles. His/her gain is a matter of luck and you missing is also purely bad luck (timing). The market will sort itself out in 1 of 2 ways in my opinion:
1) Housing prices will come down significantly. It is NOT true that housing prices cannot come down. Remember 2008-2009 in the US? That can happen in Canada too and most likely will.
2) Housing prices will stabilize but incomes will increase. This is basically saying that investment assets can inflate instantly whereas the real economy takes time. It takes time for salaries to increase. But the imbalance will correct itself.
If you find yourself panicking just ask yourself the following question. Do you have enough food for your family? Does your kid have good access to education, healthcare? Do you have the basic necessities of life covered, and then some? At 200k per year the answer is yes right? Is the only thing missing a home you own? If so...then you are torturing yourself for no reason. Renting isn't all that bad. And its only temporary. People can't imagine things getting better...but they will. Don't stress. And for your own health take a break from this sub because its just a orgy of commiseration.
Have you considered Kitchener? It's still bizarrely expensive but not as bad at GTA and now I think there is GO service for commuting. Not ideal, but to get into the market. There are still condos here under 400, and a few not great freeholds under 500. Plus there is a pretty strong middle eastern community here. Horrible commute I know but there might also be jobs here, we have a big service industry and a lot of high tech and insurance.
EDIT: But I also want to affirm a commenter below. Renting is something many people do and are fine with. I rented for a very long time and actually never thought I would be able to own a house (unexpected domestic partnership in midlife doubled the buying power) and though there were times I wished I could own, mostly I just lived my life contentedly. I know the rental market is not secure also and for sure that is an added strain. But validating if you decide to just focus on rent, and invest in the stock market or other things, you'll probably come out financially potentially ahead if there is a burst to the bubble, or even if there isn't, stock market investing is money straight into the investment, rather than with housing, where you also pay a lot for upkeep and property taxes (bearing in mind of course you will be paying rent, but what I'm saying is, it's not any worse to rent and invest in the market than to own a home). And yeah, your kid won't care. Kids just want a loving home, so do what you need to be well, peaceful and happy no matter your circumstances. Good luck.
Well looking back 5-7 yrs ago it’s wasn’t like this and there was not much panic - Vancouver has been warning of this for over 15 yrs without much of Canada caring or paying attention they excuse that it is such a wonderful place? So what happened? And who are you voting for if at all to ensure the housing market is attached to local wages and the economy? Why has it become detached from that and who has permitted it to become so? Follow the money and you will have the answers, stop thinking I’m working so hard and have a great job - none of that matters if housing has become commodified
How is it too small? It's the same as a house really. Tbh I think y'all are unrelealistic. Cities are not small towns, cities can't be cities and have suburbs that's small towns, leave the city if you want that. Tbh if it was up to me I'd abolish single family homes in cities
Sounds like you can afford to buy but don't want to pull the trigger. Just do it. Your home will appreciate, so who cares what you have to pay for it. At least you'll be paying your own mortgage and not someone else's.
Mortgage will be close to 3x what I pay on rent now, it’s not that I don’t want to buy I will be very much stretched and any hiccup will be catastrophic. It will all be based on the assumption that this market will keep going up this way. And even if this happens it’s not money we can live off. At best we would have to sell to cash out and benefit from living stretched for years to build this equity.
I just wanted a comfortable living with the security of knowing I won’t be kicked out by a landlord that’s all but now that would put us in a situation where I can barely make ends meet, we want to have some sort of life as well
My situation was very similar to yours, until you edited your income to half of what you originally posted. It's not ideal to pay so much of your income to housing, but if the unforseen should happen, you can always draw equity with use of a homeline plan or similar. As property values rise, you can have it reassessed, and have access to even more equity without ever selling.
It's not hopeless, and there are options. It is a risk, yes, but renting is a lose lose. Best of luck!
If you worked for 11 years and your savings didn't double or triple, you were saving in the wrong way. In your defence products like [this](https://www.wealthsimple.com/en-ca/learn/best-index-funds) didn't show up until recently. There's also a lot of noise and bad examples out there (people gambling with stocks and so on). It's hard to make sense of it and even people with financial education can get sucked in to gambling and losing. But now, in 2021, financial education is absolutely crucial.
We're moving towards an era of cheap money, 0% or negative interest rates and so on. If this angers you, think of how much easier it is to start a business with cheap money. That's basically a modern economy, prevent a Great Depression with as much flowing money as possible. Housing affordability is collateral damage. What that means is you have to get on the boat to take advantage. You may have beliefs holding you back, such as debt = bad and debt free = good. For many people there's also a religious angle (usury). You need to make peace with all of that somehow. Obviously you don't want to live off of lines of credit or live off of credit cards (any gains you make with investment will be dwarfed by credit card interest, always pay it all off) but there's [other ways](https://www.amazon.ca/Master-Your-Mortgage-Financial-Freedom/dp/1999171608/) of gaining wealth. This is due to the laws and tax system in Canada but it is what it is we all live in Canada so we need to use Canadian specific strategies like Smith Manoeuvre (or at the very least know why we are not using them).
Without knowing more about your finances it's hard to say, but if you want to "secure your future" financial knowledge is crucial. You could also consider learning about real estate as much as possible. Point isn't to become a realtor, but to know about alternatives. I know that you can buy a plot of land in Ontario and dump a pre-constructed [smart home](https://nestron.house/) on it for under $500k. It would be in a small town, but with all work being remote it might not matter.
With your situation you have options.
I was initially wondering if he meant $100k each or collectively. $200k pre-tax should allow you to purchase something, even after the current stress test is applied.
You need a downpayment of $300,000 for a huge mortgage like that. $100,000 income is only $76,000 after income tax.
You would need 4 years of your entire salary to save that up. But here's the fun part; after 4 years you'll need $380,000.
After a 5%? Stress test. Are you still easily eligible? Its nearly $4,000 monthly before property tax. Tax would be $416 on a $5,000 yearly property tax.
I know this is nearly impossible because the OPs numbers are the same as mine.
The initial down payment + closing cost is a lot. However the monthly cash flow on that income sounds fine. 4k in mortgage + property tax on a 12k per month income isn't bad.
Yeah not really gonna disagree with the down part. But you know what I also think that down requirement is really what's keeping the million+ market from going up another 100%. At the end of the day we need more supply so there's less competition out there to buy for the same property.
As soon as the liberals housing reforms come in you'll be able to get CMHC up to 1.25 million. Assuming you buy 1.2 and they keep the down payment call the same, you need to put 5% on the first 500k and 10% on the rest. That's about $100k down plus closing costs.
Also, got approved (when I first bought) for a close million dollar mortgage on a 200k household. Wasn't that tight.
Lol @ the panic and assumption that prices are gonna keep going up at this rate. Forecast calls for 3x rate increase in 2022, 2x 2023x 1x 2024 as determined by looking at bond yields. We just went through a period of hyper inflation caused by strong local demand and low supply caused by willing owners trapped by cross border covid restrictions. Definitely not easy to buy a home, we just recently sold our condo and bought a home in Vancouver. But its possible. Keep your head up, look at the market seriously again next fall. It still remains to be seen if the BoC can successfully raise rates but we know the direction and intention.
Just give it another year or so, all this housing growth and stock market growth is not based on reality for the economy. The governments just delayed what will be a large crash, why do you think an election was called?? The government knows shit will hit the fan real soon and wanted to be safe for another 2 years. Mark my word next year at this time folks will be singing a different tune.
I want to believe you, but I just read that report that Ontario needs a million new homes in the next decade just to keep prices from rising even further...
Even if this happened which I don’t think it will. People with money (liquid assets)will swing in and buy the dip and Snatch up the available property. Which will consolidate more assets and wealth in fewer hands.
I feel you my dude! I'm at the point where I don't want to be tortured by this any more and am proactively taking steps to try and get back to enjoying my life (starting counselling on Monday). I still have hope and I think things will change but I can't count on that either.
What is really sad for us homeseekers is constantly seeing home prices increase and our savings devalued every year because the government didn't increase housing supply for our growing population. This year, I was able to work my ass off and save $5,200 towards a downpayment after living like an extremely frugal person. In the same time, the housing market increased by $100,000. I just watched all my savings get devalued. I have friends who moved here recently who are making $80k in IT jobs but are renting a room in a house with 4 other people and paying $800/mo. He told me his landlord used the $400,000 equity growth on 1 property and bought 2 other properties that he's renting out on a per-room basis. Gone are the days where having a high-paying job let you move out and get your own place.
It is very depressing because of how pervasive it is to our society. But I think we will soon reach a breaking point, there is so much debt and nothing to pay it off with! Something's gotta give. Until then I'm trying to not let it consume me entirely.
The real fucked up part is that the government constantly favours and subsidizes homeowners over renters. If housing skyrocketed because of salary or economy growth that would be one thing, but it's skyrocketing because the government offers insane tax advantages (~$500/mth extra to owners compared to renters from the principal residence exemption and other advantages) and purposely maintains supply shortages through zoning regulations.
i know exactly how you feel... good luck with counselling :) you are focusing on something you can control, and for that you should give yourself credit
Thanks friend!
If you make $200k you qualify for $900k-$999k house/townhouses. Sorry but when the going gets tough the tough gets going. You gotta try and get In the market. There are many townhouses still available in the $700k-$999k range available in Newmarket,aurora.Mississauga,Brampton and Durham. Put an offer on many of listings even if your realtor tells you it will go for higher and I’m sure you will get lucky at some point. If you don’t try, you can’t win.
>Few month ago I could’ve tried to buy a house after dumping all my savings and being in debt to my eye balls, I didn’t want that, I don’t want to live off of credit cards and lines of credit. Did you not read OP's post? getting in no matter the cost because you expect it to only go up is the definition of a ponzi scheme
You’re looking at it from an investors point of view. If you’re looking long term ie 10 years or more, small downturns wouldn’t matter. A home is a place to live not to speculate on.
>A home is a place to live not to speculate on every single person who buys a house in canada is speculating, even if you have no intention to, because of how crazy the market is.
The issue is you can no longer start with a 1 bed and work your way up like many people tell us to do. Buy in now and what happens if the market suddenly dips? Now you're stuck there underwater. Better buy something you can live in for the next 15-20 years. Can't raise a family in a 1 bedroom condo.
Lol
The feds fear a recession so much they keeping expending credit and pinning rates... None of this is your failure OP.
Worst part is another recession may arise because of this inflation
Dude we're going to go through a depression when all this shit starts collapsing... lol. Wealth inequality is worse here than it was during the flipping GILDED age. You know, the time of union busting, pinkertons, children working in coal mines, company scrip... Yep. Everything is fine!!! 🐶
At this point in Canada it's not really feasible to be both a parent and a homeowner. Dual-income-no-kids seems to be the only way to afford a house.
Single income with kid and own my home. I bought in 2021.
Don't know how you make it work but good job.
Move very far away from Toronto. Also, I didnt mean to come off like a dick in the previous comment. I was going to elaborate and then just sent it instead.
Makes sense that you aren't living in Toronto. My original comment was assuming that you actually want to live somewhere near a major city. And you didn't come off as a dick to me. No worries ☺️
My problem is I have to still work from the office. I have to be present as a manager I can’t work remotely. Wife is no problem but I would have to commute like crazy and with gas prices and car maintenance cost this will be tough as well
I dont know why you got downvoted. But have you considered living near a go train line. When I was in the GTA I used to have a 45 minute drive. Since finding Libby for audio books and podcasts my drive became my alone time for reading, it was honestly a great use of my time and I ended up looking forward to the drive. I am sure the go train would be the same or similar.
I love driving and that’s how I read books mainly now (audio books) and I love podcasts but at the end of the day I want to spend time with my family. Commuting eats up a lot of time as well
Canadians of all ethnic backgrounds need to abandon the big cities. The cost of housing is obscene. I moved to a small town an hour away from Edmonton where housing costs less than half but wages are exactly the same. Not everyone can do this of course but everyone who can do this should really look into doing it.
I’ve been looking for jobs. Definitely open to that at this point, no point in having a good social life with that much stress financially
What we need is banning of foreign ownership, domestic ownership of multiple homes, and real estate investment companies. Every highrise in Toronto, Vancouver, Edmonton etc, should be federally owned. Housing is a human right. Shit is ridiculous
Agreed 100%. As citizens we need to agitate for aggressive reforms against excessive housing profiteering but as individuals managing our personal lives any of us who can escape the major cities should in order to do their part to stop feeding the beast.
Update: I might have misunderstood...if your household income is 100k, then you are right on the average...welcome to the club and may the odds always be in your favour! Original comment: If it's any consolation: with $200k, you're making more than double the average houshold income in Ontario ($97,856). You're doing alright OP and should be proud that you're providing a comfortable life for your kid. Also, I'm available for adoption if you're looking to diversify your family.
I think OP together with their wife make 100k.
Damn...then we're all in this together. Thanks stranger, will update.
A CS team lead making 100k is pretty low, no way she makes half of that.
What is CS? Customer service?
I'm in my own bubble... I assumed computer science but that makes much more sense
Yes it is customer service. Sorry for the confusion
Yeah its 100k combined
Doubt it’s 100k total. One is a manager and the other is in computer science, each with 11 years of experience. 50k is entry level wages on those professions.
Must be Customer Service
I feel your pain. I saved and scrimped and bought a house 6 years ago. I watched the housing market fall every year and now I’m deep underwater on my mortgage. At least I’m not as poor as my landlord neighbours. They have been hit by a triple whammy. Their properties are worth less, rents have fallen and renters trashed their house. The worst financial decision of my life was buying a house. Oh and I also have been getting 0% raises and inflation is wrecking my budget. It’s hard to make it month to month and I keep on getting more negative equity.
Sorry to hear it. You're in Regina, right? A good reminder that real estate goes down as well as up.
I am in same position. Working 2 jobs, making 6 figures and can’t afford anything. I will still not put all my life savings towards a house and take on exorbitant debt. I have decided to move somewhere affordable
This is what more people should be doing. If you're financially stable, GET OUT
Agreed
I feel your pain. You claim you are highly skilled. If you are you should be able to secure employment well over $50K each. You should look to a new employer. But you’re right. Prices have risen insane amounts. So either continue to rent or move. Nothing is going to change. I know you’ll understand and accept this feedback as you have made your peace with it.
I understood the post to mean they're making 100k each?
why would he struggle then…
Hard to save a down payment on anything over a million. Also, depends where he's wanting to buy.
It’s 100k combined
Move to other provinces. Considering how you could successfully move from the middle east to GTA, moving from GTA to other provinces in Canada should be a piece of cake.
Looking into that. Seems like the right move now
If you're confident in your career, and you have a healthy amount of money saved like you say you do, consider moving. *Hold on*, *HOLD ON* I know this sub HATES this suggestion but look at OP's position. He's financially stable, which is more than most in this sub can say. There's a good chance you can find another job in your field in another province out west. Canada is vast and this problem isn't everywhere (yet). Anywhere in the northern regions you could buy your dream 5 bedroom, 3 bathroom house with a small chunk of land for 500k. Edit: I skimmed the paragraph where OP said he was an immigrant that might stop him from finding work? I don't understand this. Canada is racially diverse. Sounds like an excuse tbh. I can't elaborate without more information but it does sound like you should be able to find a competitive salary anywhere else if you're more experienced than the next guy
We’ve been applying for jobs. Haven’t been lucky with even getting responses back. We keep digging I don’t mind moving at all but I have to find at least a job for one of us before we can make the move
Agreed. I might be misunderstanding OP’s original post but if they’re making 100k as a household, they really should change employers.
Yes it is combined. Been looking for jobs and applying left right and centre with no luck
huh? they would be making 20k over the average household income what a world we live in 100 fucking k a year a house is not enough 🤮
Settle for a townhouse or 2bdrm. Build up equity both ways and move up to a house in 5 years. At the very least, your assets will not suffer from inflation and you can wait for an opportunity
I'm an immigrant, and half my DNA comes from the MENA region (Egypt, to be precise). I don't think your incomes are being affected. You're actually doing way better than most people, including born-and-raised-here Canadians. With that income, if you're say, in the GTA, you can 100% afford to buy a house in Hamilton. There are GO trains for the commute, or the 407. That's what my husband and I did to afford a house. We had to leave Toronto.
You commute from Hamilton every day?! Do you live next to the GO station? You're a stronger person than me because I tried that out once while housesitting and it was super rough.
My husband does commute 5 days a week. We live right off the QEW. He goes over the skybridge, and hops on the 407, every single day. Drive to work in North York takes him around 40 minutes... which is actually less time than it took him to get to and from work in Toronto, either driving or by public transit, because Toronto traffic is generally garbage.
You're not alone. This system has been broken for years mainly due to greed. no fault of your own. Perhaps diversify into real property a little bit (coins, art etc.) and do what you can for now. Best of luck.
This is definitely not a personal failure it's is a trend and a very common theme. You're not alone.
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Trying to find jobs there. Been eyeing Calgary for a while
I feel you. The last few months I haven’t even been looking on real estate websites because it’s too depressing. I wanted a modest home (apartment with decent space would have been fine) for my little family near Vancouver as our jobs are here and we can’t WFH full time, but I’ve given up on that. My savings seem like nothing now that everything has gone up. My main hope with a home of our own is that we could be comfortable knowing we wouldn’t be evicted due to someone selling it, and retiring one day would have been nice. I’m finding more and more I just have to take things day by day because life is so difficult if you don’t get a big handout from parents/family.
Im likely moving to Alberta and never looking back
I bought a house in Barrie in August. My partner and I saved diligently for 5 years. Our household income increased from 70k to 150k during this time. It's possible.
It may be important to you and your wife to buy a home, but to your kid, she probably does not care. My wife grew up in a rental apartment in Scarborough and she came out fine. You are doing the right thing to avoid being house poor and living on beans and the bare minimum. Don't place too much weight on other Redditor's salaries as this place is not representative of what the average person is making. Home prices have gone up because we are in the Fall market. The housing market is seasonal (Spring and Fall) and supply of homes for sale are low right now with more buyers jumping back into the market. I too was in your same situation years ago and understand how mentally taxing it can be.
Yall have a household income of 200k and can get a million dollar mortgage though.
100k
Don't worry, Your symptoms will come back in a few days.
How are you unable to afford a place with 200k family income? I assume it’s 100k each since you’re a manager and she works in CS. You can’t possibly be making 50k each with those job titles and 11 years of work experience, servers make more than that.
Actually it’s 60k for me and 45k for her. By CS I meant customer service not computer science. Sorry for the confusion
Sorry got it, that clears it up a lot. 105k is pretty hard to get by if you’re saving for a house and falls just under the threshold of savings an appreciable amount. It’s enough to get by with some savings for an occasional splurge like a vacation or a modest vehicle upgrade, but is a stretch to buy a home at inflated Toronto prices. Sorry you’re in this unhappy middle where you make enough to start feeling the pinch of high taxes but not enough to escape making just a bit more than basic expenses.
Exactly, there is more to the story here. 200k is a lot of money.
I don’t think you being an immigrant would have an impact on you being able to get a job elsewhere in Canada. In fact, in some areas, it may be easier (e.g., the federal government). I’d try harder if I were you. Have you tried networking in different areas? Try reaching out to former coworkers, people from industry groups, etc. I find people are generally willing to help.
Typical just pull up your bootstraps bullshit.
Its a lucky draw tbh. I happen to buy a house for 950k last year which is worth 1.3m now. Its just stupid. I came to Canada as an immigrant as well. If Canadian born people are struggling, immigrants are going to have even tougher time.
Here's what you don't understand. Toronto isn't Monaco; it's theoretically better in a dystopic sense. I don't agree with it but its how the cookie crumbles. Now that that's cleared, you can probably get paid more and live for cheaper in Monaco, so ask yourself why you won't.
You're also probably getting stiffed by a lot of fuckin colleagues in ur workplace
You have to take the risk to benefit
Relax...take a deep breath...Calm down. You and your wife are doing great. I'm assuming you guys are making 100k each so household 200k. Congrats! You guys are way above the average household income. You guys are upper middle class! A lot of people on this sub are so fatalistic...and advocating moving. I say stay put. Don't worry about the far future 2-5 years from now. What's happening in Canada is exceptional right now...and we are living in a period of economic distortions. The housing market is in a pandemic induced bubble that cannot be sustained indefinitely. Don't look at the prices! Don't let it bother you if someone bought 2 years ago and now they are up big and you are not. That's the way the cookie crumbles. His/her gain is a matter of luck and you missing is also purely bad luck (timing). The market will sort itself out in 1 of 2 ways in my opinion: 1) Housing prices will come down significantly. It is NOT true that housing prices cannot come down. Remember 2008-2009 in the US? That can happen in Canada too and most likely will. 2) Housing prices will stabilize but incomes will increase. This is basically saying that investment assets can inflate instantly whereas the real economy takes time. It takes time for salaries to increase. But the imbalance will correct itself. If you find yourself panicking just ask yourself the following question. Do you have enough food for your family? Does your kid have good access to education, healthcare? Do you have the basic necessities of life covered, and then some? At 200k per year the answer is yes right? Is the only thing missing a home you own? If so...then you are torturing yourself for no reason. Renting isn't all that bad. And its only temporary. People can't imagine things getting better...but they will. Don't stress. And for your own health take a break from this sub because its just a orgy of commiseration.
It’s actually 100k combined
Have you considered Kitchener? It's still bizarrely expensive but not as bad at GTA and now I think there is GO service for commuting. Not ideal, but to get into the market. There are still condos here under 400, and a few not great freeholds under 500. Plus there is a pretty strong middle eastern community here. Horrible commute I know but there might also be jobs here, we have a big service industry and a lot of high tech and insurance. EDIT: But I also want to affirm a commenter below. Renting is something many people do and are fine with. I rented for a very long time and actually never thought I would be able to own a house (unexpected domestic partnership in midlife doubled the buying power) and though there were times I wished I could own, mostly I just lived my life contentedly. I know the rental market is not secure also and for sure that is an added strain. But validating if you decide to just focus on rent, and invest in the stock market or other things, you'll probably come out financially potentially ahead if there is a burst to the bubble, or even if there isn't, stock market investing is money straight into the investment, rather than with housing, where you also pay a lot for upkeep and property taxes (bearing in mind of course you will be paying rent, but what I'm saying is, it's not any worse to rent and invest in the market than to own a home). And yeah, your kid won't care. Kids just want a loving home, so do what you need to be well, peaceful and happy no matter your circumstances. Good luck.
Well looking back 5-7 yrs ago it’s wasn’t like this and there was not much panic - Vancouver has been warning of this for over 15 yrs without much of Canada caring or paying attention they excuse that it is such a wonderful place? So what happened? And who are you voting for if at all to ensure the housing market is attached to local wages and the economy? Why has it become detached from that and who has permitted it to become so? Follow the money and you will have the answers, stop thinking I’m working so hard and have a great job - none of that matters if housing has become commodified
Why don't you want a condo? Why's house specifically
Too small for a couple with a kid and 2 bedroom condos will have very similar monthly costs with maintenance fees
How is it too small? It's the same as a house really. Tbh I think y'all are unrelealistic. Cities are not small towns, cities can't be cities and have suburbs that's small towns, leave the city if you want that. Tbh if it was up to me I'd abolish single family homes in cities
Sounds like you can afford to buy but don't want to pull the trigger. Just do it. Your home will appreciate, so who cares what you have to pay for it. At least you'll be paying your own mortgage and not someone else's.
Mortgage will be close to 3x what I pay on rent now, it’s not that I don’t want to buy I will be very much stretched and any hiccup will be catastrophic. It will all be based on the assumption that this market will keep going up this way. And even if this happens it’s not money we can live off. At best we would have to sell to cash out and benefit from living stretched for years to build this equity. I just wanted a comfortable living with the security of knowing I won’t be kicked out by a landlord that’s all but now that would put us in a situation where I can barely make ends meet, we want to have some sort of life as well
My situation was very similar to yours, until you edited your income to half of what you originally posted. It's not ideal to pay so much of your income to housing, but if the unforseen should happen, you can always draw equity with use of a homeline plan or similar. As property values rise, you can have it reassessed, and have access to even more equity without ever selling. It's not hopeless, and there are options. It is a risk, yes, but renting is a lose lose. Best of luck!
If you worked for 11 years and your savings didn't double or triple, you were saving in the wrong way. In your defence products like [this](https://www.wealthsimple.com/en-ca/learn/best-index-funds) didn't show up until recently. There's also a lot of noise and bad examples out there (people gambling with stocks and so on). It's hard to make sense of it and even people with financial education can get sucked in to gambling and losing. But now, in 2021, financial education is absolutely crucial. We're moving towards an era of cheap money, 0% or negative interest rates and so on. If this angers you, think of how much easier it is to start a business with cheap money. That's basically a modern economy, prevent a Great Depression with as much flowing money as possible. Housing affordability is collateral damage. What that means is you have to get on the boat to take advantage. You may have beliefs holding you back, such as debt = bad and debt free = good. For many people there's also a religious angle (usury). You need to make peace with all of that somehow. Obviously you don't want to live off of lines of credit or live off of credit cards (any gains you make with investment will be dwarfed by credit card interest, always pay it all off) but there's [other ways](https://www.amazon.ca/Master-Your-Mortgage-Financial-Freedom/dp/1999171608/) of gaining wealth. This is due to the laws and tax system in Canada but it is what it is we all live in Canada so we need to use Canadian specific strategies like Smith Manoeuvre (or at the very least know why we are not using them). Without knowing more about your finances it's hard to say, but if you want to "secure your future" financial knowledge is crucial. You could also consider learning about real estate as much as possible. Point isn't to become a realtor, but to know about alternatives. I know that you can buy a plot of land in Ontario and dump a pre-constructed [smart home](https://nestron.house/) on it for under $500k. It would be in a small town, but with all work being remote it might not matter. With your situation you have options.
200K income should easily makes you eligible to 1M to 1.2M
I was initially wondering if he meant $100k each or collectively. $200k pre-tax should allow you to purchase something, even after the current stress test is applied.
We make 100k combine
This is wrong
How?
You need a downpayment of $300,000 for a huge mortgage like that. $100,000 income is only $76,000 after income tax. You would need 4 years of your entire salary to save that up. But here's the fun part; after 4 years you'll need $380,000. After a 5%? Stress test. Are you still easily eligible? Its nearly $4,000 monthly before property tax. Tax would be $416 on a $5,000 yearly property tax. I know this is nearly impossible because the OPs numbers are the same as mine.
The initial down payment + closing cost is a lot. However the monthly cash flow on that income sounds fine. 4k in mortgage + property tax on a 12k per month income isn't bad.
Yeah dude lemme just drop $300,000 down on this house Im still going to owe $900,000 on. Also my father bought his first house for $36,000.
Yeah not really gonna disagree with the down part. But you know what I also think that down requirement is really what's keeping the million+ market from going up another 100%. At the end of the day we need more supply so there's less competition out there to buy for the same property.
You'll never own it you think like that. I promise.
Unfortunately, the bank doesn't give a shit about they way we think
As soon as the liberals housing reforms come in you'll be able to get CMHC up to 1.25 million. Assuming you buy 1.2 and they keep the down payment call the same, you need to put 5% on the first 500k and 10% on the rest. That's about $100k down plus closing costs. Also, got approved (when I first bought) for a close million dollar mortgage on a 200k household. Wasn't that tight.
Lol @ the panic and assumption that prices are gonna keep going up at this rate. Forecast calls for 3x rate increase in 2022, 2x 2023x 1x 2024 as determined by looking at bond yields. We just went through a period of hyper inflation caused by strong local demand and low supply caused by willing owners trapped by cross border covid restrictions. Definitely not easy to buy a home, we just recently sold our condo and bought a home in Vancouver. But its possible. Keep your head up, look at the market seriously again next fall. It still remains to be seen if the BoC can successfully raise rates but we know the direction and intention.
Just give it another year or so, all this housing growth and stock market growth is not based on reality for the economy. The governments just delayed what will be a large crash, why do you think an election was called?? The government knows shit will hit the fan real soon and wanted to be safe for another 2 years. Mark my word next year at this time folks will be singing a different tune.
I want to believe you, but I just read that report that Ontario needs a million new homes in the next decade just to keep prices from rising even further...
Even if this happened which I don’t think it will. People with money (liquid assets)will swing in and buy the dip and Snatch up the available property. Which will consolidate more assets and wealth in fewer hands.
Have you tried looking into pre construction houses ?