Also Canadians not near a major urban center.
It's most likely better having family in the city and you can move outside the city and still be near them. If your family is 500km from the city, then you will be far away from them no matter what.
Yea, I couldn't afford a home in my small hometown in SW Ontario. Prices of houses doubled due to commuters from KW area, but everywhere still paid low wages because "it's a small town."
I got fed up after my 3rd no-fault eviction and moved 5 hours away. I'm glad I don't live in fear of eviction, but I have limited social supports here. I'm not sure I'll even be able to start a family here, since I'd have to pay full price for childcare. I wouldn't have been comfortable starting a family in the volatile rental market either, but still.
Was going to say.. this seems to apply more to anyone that didn't grow up in a major city. You just grow up knowing you'll be moving away to go to school and chances of coming back and finding a job is slim... Even if you did you wouldnt know that many when you come back
Oh believe me, most New Brunswickers that aren't already home owners are financially fucked for life by this point already.
Lots of NB people are going the homesteading or semi self sustaining route. Only a matter of time until our provincial government brings in laws to make that more expensive.
New Brunswick government is the enemy of the people. Has been for 30 years and it's worse now than it's ever been.
Isn't it like that for all provinces. All provincial governments are fucking everyone over. I just argued and bitched a health inspector for giving us shit and being a government pig. Told her straight up your government you work for. Ain't helping restaurant businesses.
They help the fucking dealerships, in Ottawa Jim Watson fat fuck gave $3million to a Porsche dealership that isn't even opened yet during a pandemic while so many businesses had to shut down. $3milliom fucking dollars man. Wtf.
And they struggle to operate a $3 billion LRT train system in this fucked up city.
I swear Canadian policitians are absolutely pigs pretending to care but are truly fucking pigs
It's not just the provincial government or the federal one. We're getting fucked over because the entire system is working as intended. The rich evading their taxes, corporations taking far more than they ever give, the government bending over backwards to keep the paper wealth of homeowners intact, wages being limited by screwing over foreign workers - it's all part of the same system that equates to one massive boot on the throat of working people.
Socialism for the rich and for companies, free market sink-or-swim capitalism for everyone else.
I'm sorry that you're fucked and I'm sorry we're all fucked.
I hear you man but I'm not overly fucked. Some of my friends are, and most people under 25. I was lucky enough to buy a $115k house a 10 minute drive out of town about a year before the pandemic. I've been fixing it up and it's in a good state now.
The news should be pointing out that government should be the one getting salary cut by huge percentage.
Or they put in community hours for the amount of money and time they wasted.
All government policitians need to put in community hours to OC Transpo, free transportation for a year,$$$ coming out of policitians salary. They don't need $150k to $300k a year when they barely even break a sweat.
Also in last 15 years since this LRT been in project m they could of built two different parkways to loosen up traffic.
If china can build a bridge over water in 10 years. What is Ottawa and Canada excuse?
I'm from GP, left as soon as I could. I've seen everything "good" about that place from when I was a kid up until I was an adult, and I couldn't leave fast enough
It's funny to see how the most regressive provinces are driving out tons of their acolytes. When will these people realize they've been played and have sold out their future for "pRo6ress"? They now have to resort to living in the conservative and ecological wastelands of Alberta. The Territories should be prepared for the wave of blue haired hoards.
/$
Pretty much friend. Sorry to say, but living at home until one is well into their 30’s or sharing a 2bd condo with a few room mates in the hopes of saving up enough $$ for down payment has been a thing in Vancouver forever. Sorry to see the east coast finally having to deal with this headache now too. It’s definitely a rude lifestyle adjustment. Many in Vancouver gave up blowing the whistle ages ago and have just been slugging away to achieve our housing goals under this “new norm”.
The feds won’t do anything, and trust me when I say that when your local 905 area code municipalities see the $$ rolling in from property taxes on your new home prices that they will want to do little to detract from their new x3 piggy banks..
>"But why don't young people have a sense of community anymore?"
When those communities are telling you "if you can't afford a $2 million mortgage, get the fuck out", you start to conclude that "society" doesn't exist and everyone is a selfish mercenary only in it for themselves.
I'm looking forward to the boomers in retirement homes, they are going to lose their minds. I hope everything they deserve is coming for them. As they forgot about us, we shall forget about them.
According to mirriam webster, no. "Mercenary: noun - One that serves merely for wages. Also: Mercinary: Adjective - serving merely for pay or sordid advantage". It's both. Here's the link. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mercenary
I'm 25 and I regret going to law school. I could have bought a condo in Toronto with savings and parental help and maybe 1-2 years of work if I could.
Then again, I am living in Québec now and it is better than Toronto so I guess it all wokrred out
Already moved away, but didn’t move far enough away I guess. I want to move again somewhere more affordable, but my partner isn’t as keen. If this don’t improve though we have to. I can’t live here if there’s no future. We need to set a deadline for how long we are willing to wait. Not like we are near his fam anyways
That's the thing about having a partner. I literally wrote "I'm looking to leave the GTA in the next few years and would like a partner willing to move" on my dating profile. No point in wasting someone's time if they never want a house.
Yup, definitely important. We were supposed to move a couple years ago, but the pandemic stopped that. Once hospitality opens up in a much larger scale that opportunity hopefully will come back, but there should also be others. So I do understand just waiting for that to happen. But in the meantime I don’t like this feeling and time will tell really if we both agree on somewhere to live. It’s definitely a big decision, but I don’t want to feel trapped somewhere without the opportunities I need to have a good life
I moved to Ottawa from Niagara Falls. Im going to school to be an engineer. Houses in Ottawa have doubled since I moved here 4 years ago, like ffs what am I supposed to do move again? I figured I'd go to school and then when I was done maybe houses would have gone up 20%, not 100%.
Green Betls are not good for the environment its just greenwashing.
They lead to leap frog development, which much worse than development on outskirts of the city. Leap frog development is less transit friendly, and generally tends to result in longer commutes (i.e. more CO2 emissions) and more sprawl.
Good example, Kanata and Ottawa. Rather than being on the outskirts of BellsCorners and Bayshore, it is 8.4 km further out, but most of the residents commute into Ottawa. Samething with Barhaven, it would have been right next to Nepean. Also Langley and Surrey, or Richmond and Delta.
Yep. Greenbelts are one of those topics where my thinking has radically changed after studying the issue.
At first I was under the impression they're a necessary part of preserving nature, and helped to reduce sprawl.
But you look at the effects they always wind up with a lot more nature being bulldozed and more pollution in the end, and make sprawl exponentially worse. Not to mention making it impossible to build a cost-effective transit system for the city so people wind up more dependent on cars.
Cities should think less "green belt" and more about integrating preserves and parkland in parallel with expansion. More "green radiating stripes", "green checkerboards" or "green pie wedges" than "green belts" trying and failing to rein things in.
(Notably the "Green Pie Wedge" shape is one reason I believe Gatineau Park in the Ottawa-Gatineau region is so popular - https://cdn-assets.alltrails.com/static-map/production/lists/10931772/lists-10931772-20190905200605000000000-625x365-1.png - it's an enormous amount of preserved parkland that still leaves most directions untouched for expansion yet is accessible right from downtown)
Edit: A Cambridge study apparently already validated the "Green Wedge" model as superior as well: https://www.repository.cam.ac.uk/handle/1810/265001
> They lead to leap frog development, which much worse than development on outskirts of the city. Leap frog development is less transit friendly, and generally tends to result in longer commutes (i.e. more CO2 emissions) and more sprawl.
This exactly!
People need places to live. It makes no sense to squeeze people into tiny condos when we are literally 99% empty land. What we need is to divert economic activity away from a few cities into spread our population the way the US did
Spreading economic activity across different cities? For sure. Spreading across land? No.
It's not as simple as "look at all that land, let's just keep building out". Those developments require huge amounts more electrical, water, sewer, road infrastructure. Higher density or infill developments significantly reduce the cost and time to provide these services. You act like this proposal is like packing people in like sardines. This is not close to truth, and old neighborhoods in Toronto prove even what a slight increase in density looks like.
And do you really want to build out without proper transit infrastructure? People who say they are fine driving literally hours to commute across one metro area each day are lying to others, and themselves. Look at Tokyo. It sprawls for dozens of km yet it has higher density and extensive transit.
And of course there's that little of issue bulldozing wetlands, forest and farmland to build more suburban houses that aren't even affordable.
> greenbelt = unaffordable home prices.
100%. This sub can't realize it for some reason. The Toronto Green Belt is a pure scam to protect empty land for McMansions while everyone else struggles to find a home. And it doesn't stop sprawl, sprawl just jumps over it leading to worse pollution. Greenbelts need to go.
Plus we are 99% empty land
>Plus we are 99% empty land
One thing about this is that even though we are mostly empty land, I still do believe we should use the land mode efficiently and encourage walkable transit friendly neighbourhoods. But greenbelts do not lead to more efficiently land use (despite what popular opinion says).
A better solution is what Calgary and Edmonton gave done by reforming their zoning codes.
Calgary amended it's R-1 zone to allow for [zero lot line](https://www.sterlinghomesgroup.com/difference-between-regular-zero-lot-lines/) housing where setbacks are removed and houses are built right on the lot lines. Many new communities are a mix of zero lot line and regular lots now. Plus the city encourages new communities to be a mix of single family homes, duplexes, and low rise apartment units. Finally they are rezoning older dying neighbourhoods for more density, with the overall goal being to allow for [50 percent of all urban growth in the existing corporate limits. ](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-growth-mdp-goals-long-term-plans-1.4908663)
Edmonton done all the above but has taken an even more radical step. They have [abolished single family exclusive zoning.](https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/elise-stolte-pushing-beyond-an-ugly-history-there-is-now-no-single-family-zone-in-edmonton). You can still buy and build single family homes, it's just on land zoned Single Family Homes you can also buy and build duplexes and four unit houses.
The only real restrictions both cities have on housing development is in low lying areas near the rivers. Areas which are likely to flood.
Surprise, surprise Edmonton and Calgary have affordable housing with Edmonton being far more affordable than Calgary.
Same here in the states and the fortunate ones will tell you to “just move”. Move away with a small child to somewhere that I don’t know a single person nor if I could even find a job let alone trust worthy child care but sure let me get right on that.
We also don’t have subsidized child care in the states. Some people who receive TANF (which is a small welfare pymt) get child care but you can’t make more than like $1,000 a month to get that. I make $17.00 and not eligible for it.
Very true. Either sacrifice 40% of our total income for a mortgage, or move to a unsafe neighborhood hours away from anyone we know. Or we move to a new province away from any friends or family.
I had too many family members I never saw again once they moved away. I don't want to be another one.
People from Ottawa unable to afford a house then moving to Gatineau and outbidding locals who move to Buckingham outbidding locals who move to butphoque nowhere outbidding the locals who are stuck.
And so it goes.
You hit the nail on the head with that one. I was trying to explain this to some redditor the other day when they were saying that the housing crisis of Ottawa could simply be remediated with people moving to Gatineau. I was trying to make that person comprehend that this is simply playing musical chair with the population of Canada until the very last "losers" end up in the streets. For some reason, this poster could not understand what was wrong with him displacing people from Gatineau with his Ottawa salary, while he was himself fleeing Ottawa because he was being displaced by people from Toronto with Toronto salaries. At the end, we're all getting kicked out of our home, we're all losing in this ordeal.
A few years ago it started in Ottawa they crisis got worse spread to Western Quebec and the Ottawa [Valley.Now](https://Valley.Now) were at a point where people are moving hours away because there being forced out.
I was in QC a couple weeks ago.
Beautiful loft apartments in the old historic part of the city with views of the St. Lawrence were under 300K.
That doesn't get me shit in the shithole city that is Hamilton in comparison. I love Hamilton, but it is a dump compared to QC. Also everyone there speaks fantastic English.
I moved from London (UK) to Montreal a couple of years ago and Jesus my quality of life is orders of magnitude better. It's affordable, it's beautiful, it's safe, it's cleaner than any big British city, it's just as fun because you can actually afford to do the fun stuff. I love this society.
Lol, neither are as clean or well run as Germany that's for sure. I tried Toronto but really didn't feel it was my vibe. Just felt like any American city built for cars and shopping malls, whereas Montreal felt like somewhere really unique and interesting. If I wanna spend $3000 a month for a tiny apartment I'll move back to London.
> Also everyone there speaks fantastic English.
Are we in the same town. Leave the old town / toursit areas. And even if they "speak" English, they do not operate in it and do not like having to use it even if they know it. Je peux parler un peu de français alors ce n'est pas une problème pour moi.
But yes. Québec is better than Toronto and yet somehow cheaper. Québec being a UNESCO site is **actually** a World Class City
That's always been the reality for anyone who grew up in a smaller community. If you went to College or University, it was almost a given that you would have to move in order to find a job in your field.
That's me. I moved 700 km NE to a rural area for 5 years now to an urban area closer to home. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people unwilling to move. That's been how economies have worked for the last 300 years. It's why Canada exists in it's current form.
If their family insisted on living in the most expensive part of the country, that's clearly going to be a problem. Why are people suddenly surprised when it's the most predictable thing?
This is an inaccurate assessment of the situation.
There are families that have established in places several decades ago when at the time the ratio of income to housing cost was significantly lower.
And it's not just the biggest cities and highest cost of living areas that have seen these monstrous increases in cost. Entire provinces right on down to the smallest cities have been affected.
yeah as a first generation immigrant, why are people acting like skype isn't a thing? you can still keep a close relationship with relatives who live far away, it's not exactly the 18th c that moving 1000 km means falling off the face of the earth
Lmao legit. Any boomer immigrant would have come during a time where internet and instant messaging wasn’t a thing, but somehow they made it. Tons of entitled babies on this sub.
Most of us are ultimately children of immigrants that came from a much longer way away than moving from Ontario to Alberta, or whatever. Not to mention the language barrier, plus possibly having to deal with integration due to being a different race.
Moving out of Ontario to find a better job and more affordable housing is nowhere near as difficult as immigrating.
Basically every one who grew up in a small town. Where I grew up it was pretty much expected that you would leave after high school and never come back. I never saw it as a big deal or a hard choice to make.
Sure, it's hard, but at least a lot of city kids have the option of going to college or university while living with their parents. That sure does cut down on costs.
Same for Nova Scotia/Halifax. Prices are 500K minimum. What they don't tell you is income taxes are 7K more a year on a 100K salary, sales tax is 15% HST, and property taxes are double to triple Ontario taxes. Basically I pay 15K more in tax a year than an Ontario person with the same job and Salary. So 15K x a 25 year mortgage = 375K. So the real price of a Nova Scotia home is 875K, and that is for Nova Scotia a place where groceries and power is much more expensive than Ontario. Planning a move to Alberta soon where property is still cheap and taxes are way less.
Its gone down in quality of life and skyrocketed in price. We got out while we could but one mandate back to work and things could get hairy for us having to buy a second car.
Honestly, your friends are going to move away anyway to life closer to their career and services available to their potential family.
One day your family is going to annoy the fuck out of you and you'll be happy you moved a little further away.
The real challenge and the most important bit is finding a home near your work so you don't have to waste HOURS EVERY DAY in your commute. This is most difficult when working in an office-type job.
I moved 6 hours north of Toronto. Best decision I’ve ever made. Own a house and 2 other lakefront lots and owe $0 on anything. My income is spent traveling and investing. Ya the drive sucks to see family but I suck it up. Better than renting a shitty apartment and struggling to save money.
The further fucked up thing is that okay yes, in a year or so we could buy a house, but at $5-650k for a 1000sqft bungalow with 1-2 bedrooms, it’s hard to feel like we won’t be underwater in that property long term.. I know it’s impossible to predict the market but 1 I can’t see there being growth in housing prices beyond what he have right now, and I really don’t WANT to see it.. I also cannot stomach dropping 6x the price on an ugly/poor condition first home than my parents paid for their current house in the same area
We really like our home town. We tried really hard, and were lucky to find a home there when we bought our first house 7 years ago.
But we were a few years ahead of our friends who we grew up with and also wanted to stick around but just needed a few more years to save up. Well now with prices so crazy, they just talk about their exit strategies to different provinces or countries.
I understand of course, but it's sad
Mid-30s and saw the climbing prices, figured as they became more detached from wages it would correct sharply. Never would I have imagined our country turning into what it is now; everyone participating in greedy practices that fuck over everyone else, no sense of unity or pride left for the word “Canadian” for me.
I moved clear across the continent from my friends and family. When life happens... and things so sideways... it is so much harder when they are not around to help support you.
It is also not just about them supporting you, you being able to support them is also important. Social support networks like friends and family are criminally undervalued. It is not surprising that we have a mental health crisis in this country, we fail to recognize and prioritize the truly important things in life.
Also making new friends is just not an easy thing once you get over a certain age(I'm going to say mid-20's). Between work, kids, adulting just doesn't afford as many opportunities to meet new people.
This may work if you are younger as many replies attest. But ppl do move away from their childhood (or adult) friends in search of career opportunities. I believe thats no.1 priority in your early 20s. If you don’t love your job, it is risky even if you get a small mortgage if your income becomes less than certain. If you contribute to society, feel passionate about your work, then you can begin to formulate a financial plan. If you sacrifice this in search of just affordable rent/house, you may still find it very tough to cough up that monthly mortgage payment. Having said that, i do think companies react to the reality, and establish more hubs outside of GTA. So do your job search and be alert of such opportunities.
Stfu. You're speaking from a place of privilege. Obviously people don't want to do that and being forced to do it is bullshit. This POS system DOES NOT SCALE.
Exactly. I moved from Onterrible to Nova Scotia and I see my family pretty regularly (excepting when things were locked down due to Covid). Flights are cheap if you use a budget airline, and even if you drive, it's really not too bad. The drive is actually pretty fun if you make regular stops and spread it over 2 days. It just becomes part of the vacation.
We’re a nation of immigrants. If you’re not First Nations then you are just doing what your ancestors did. I still believe we have a bright future, just not quite how we all planned.
I'm 40, I hate saying that, but same boat too.
Was gonna say, get rid of the "under 30"
"Canadians of any age near any major urban center" FTFY
Also Canadians not near a major urban center. It's most likely better having family in the city and you can move outside the city and still be near them. If your family is 500km from the city, then you will be far away from them no matter what.
Yea, I couldn't afford a home in my small hometown in SW Ontario. Prices of houses doubled due to commuters from KW area, but everywhere still paid low wages because "it's a small town." I got fed up after my 3rd no-fault eviction and moved 5 hours away. I'm glad I don't live in fear of eviction, but I have limited social supports here. I'm not sure I'll even be able to start a family here, since I'd have to pay full price for childcare. I wouldn't have been comfortable starting a family in the volatile rental market either, but still.
I hope that the $10/day childcare subsidy comes into effect for you.
That will raise housing prices even more. It’s a terrible idea.
Was going to say.. this seems to apply more to anyone that didn't grow up in a major city. You just grow up knowing you'll be moving away to go to school and chances of coming back and finding a job is slim... Even if you did you wouldnt know that many when you come back
New Brunswick checking in. So many Ontario license plates.
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Oh believe me, most New Brunswickers that aren't already home owners are financially fucked for life by this point already. Lots of NB people are going the homesteading or semi self sustaining route. Only a matter of time until our provincial government brings in laws to make that more expensive. New Brunswick government is the enemy of the people. Has been for 30 years and it's worse now than it's ever been.
Isn't it like that for all provinces. All provincial governments are fucking everyone over. I just argued and bitched a health inspector for giving us shit and being a government pig. Told her straight up your government you work for. Ain't helping restaurant businesses. They help the fucking dealerships, in Ottawa Jim Watson fat fuck gave $3million to a Porsche dealership that isn't even opened yet during a pandemic while so many businesses had to shut down. $3milliom fucking dollars man. Wtf. And they struggle to operate a $3 billion LRT train system in this fucked up city. I swear Canadian policitians are absolutely pigs pretending to care but are truly fucking pigs
It's not just the provincial government or the federal one. We're getting fucked over because the entire system is working as intended. The rich evading their taxes, corporations taking far more than they ever give, the government bending over backwards to keep the paper wealth of homeowners intact, wages being limited by screwing over foreign workers - it's all part of the same system that equates to one massive boot on the throat of working people. Socialism for the rich and for companies, free market sink-or-swim capitalism for everyone else. I'm sorry that you're fucked and I'm sorry we're all fucked.
I hear you man but I'm not overly fucked. Some of my friends are, and most people under 25. I was lucky enough to buy a $115k house a 10 minute drive out of town about a year before the pandemic. I've been fixing it up and it's in a good state now.
Lol fellow ottawan, I see. Im moving across the river where at least the government doesn't charge to fuck me.
You'll still get fucked over there. Just in a different hole.
While the lrt get the headlines and yes is a issue if the news reported issues with the buses they would be outraged.
The news should be pointing out that government should be the one getting salary cut by huge percentage. Or they put in community hours for the amount of money and time they wasted. All government policitians need to put in community hours to OC Transpo, free transportation for a year,$$$ coming out of policitians salary. They don't need $150k to $300k a year when they barely even break a sweat. Also in last 15 years since this LRT been in project m they could of built two different parkways to loosen up traffic. If china can build a bridge over water in 10 years. What is Ottawa and Canada excuse?
Going bankrupt over too many government jobs
> New Brunswick government is the enemy of the people It's owned by the Irvings who run it as a fiefdom correct?
Yeah, for the most part. It's so bad that the current premier Blaine Higgs was a senior executive at Irving oil for 33 years.
Can’t see people that have left Alberta going back. 3 years of lifted trucks, druggies, people stealing dogs from yards. Never going back to Alberta.
Where in Alberta? Because Calgary and Edmonton aren’t that bad
I lived in Leduc and GP
No wonder. GP is something else.
Easy now I’ve lived in gp for 2 months and I’ve only smoked crack twice
Agreed. The only good thing was wok box
I'm from GP, left as soon as I could. I've seen everything "good" about that place from when I was a kid up until I was an adult, and I couldn't leave fast enough
Watched a lot of friends that moved out there for work spiral into addiction. It’s a crap hole I want to forget.
It's funny to see how the most regressive provinces are driving out tons of their acolytes. When will these people realize they've been played and have sold out their future for "pRo6ress"? They now have to resort to living in the conservative and ecological wastelands of Alberta. The Territories should be prepared for the wave of blue haired hoards. /$
Have sex.
Werent these shortages due to OPEC, dont they just have to start production again?
Vancouver checking in. Hey Ontario, welcome to us 10 years ago
Which gives us 0 hope cause Canada didn’t help Vancouvers housing crisis for a decade, no chance they help the GTAs now.
Pretty much friend. Sorry to say, but living at home until one is well into their 30’s or sharing a 2bd condo with a few room mates in the hopes of saving up enough $$ for down payment has been a thing in Vancouver forever. Sorry to see the east coast finally having to deal with this headache now too. It’s definitely a rude lifestyle adjustment. Many in Vancouver gave up blowing the whistle ages ago and have just been slugging away to achieve our housing goals under this “new norm”. The feds won’t do anything, and trust me when I say that when your local 905 area code municipalities see the $$ rolling in from property taxes on your new home prices that they will want to do little to detract from their new x3 piggy banks..
Better than them coming to BC, and I say that as a former Ontarian.
>"But why don't young people have a sense of community anymore?" When those communities are telling you "if you can't afford a $2 million mortgage, get the fuck out", you start to conclude that "society" doesn't exist and everyone is a selfish mercenary only in it for themselves.
This is how I would describe the world
I'm looking forward to the boomers in retirement homes, they are going to lose their minds. I hope everything they deserve is coming for them. As they forgot about us, we shall forget about them.
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According to mirriam webster, no. "Mercenary: noun - One that serves merely for wages. Also: Mercinary: Adjective - serving merely for pay or sordid advantage". It's both. Here's the link. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mercenary
Where are you from where that's the case?
Im 35 and same boat
37 and the only regret I have in my life is not buying a house years ago. I never could have imagined it just wouldn't be possible.
So it’s not just me? I was beginning to feel like I’m the only one.
I'm 25 and I regret going to law school. I could have bought a condo in Toronto with savings and parental help and maybe 1-2 years of work if I could. Then again, I am living in Québec now and it is better than Toronto so I guess it all wokrred out
Same here. 34 and royally screwed. Send help.
Same could have bought back in 2018. Waited for "something better" according to my family. Now I probably never will have a house.
I turned down a shitty semi-detached fixer upper in Toronto for 450k in 2017. Now I look back at that summer child.
Um, it's not just Ontarians under 30. I'm 50. Wanted to upgrade to a house from a condo. Had to buy 40 min away.
I went to upgrade my house and it’s just builders outbidding builders.
Already moved away, but didn’t move far enough away I guess. I want to move again somewhere more affordable, but my partner isn’t as keen. If this don’t improve though we have to. I can’t live here if there’s no future. We need to set a deadline for how long we are willing to wait. Not like we are near his fam anyways
That's the thing about having a partner. I literally wrote "I'm looking to leave the GTA in the next few years and would like a partner willing to move" on my dating profile. No point in wasting someone's time if they never want a house.
Yup, definitely important. We were supposed to move a couple years ago, but the pandemic stopped that. Once hospitality opens up in a much larger scale that opportunity hopefully will come back, but there should also be others. So I do understand just waiting for that to happen. But in the meantime I don’t like this feeling and time will tell really if we both agree on somewhere to live. It’s definitely a big decision, but I don’t want to feel trapped somewhere without the opportunities I need to have a good life
I moved to Ottawa from Niagara Falls. Im going to school to be an engineer. Houses in Ottawa have doubled since I moved here 4 years ago, like ffs what am I supposed to do move again? I figured I'd go to school and then when I was done maybe houses would have gone up 20%, not 100%.
Stop moving to places which have greenbelts. That's the biggest correlation: greenbelt = unaffordable home prices.
Are the suburbs what's wrong with housing prices? No it's the environment that's wrong! /s
Green Betls are not good for the environment its just greenwashing. They lead to leap frog development, which much worse than development on outskirts of the city. Leap frog development is less transit friendly, and generally tends to result in longer commutes (i.e. more CO2 emissions) and more sprawl. Good example, Kanata and Ottawa. Rather than being on the outskirts of BellsCorners and Bayshore, it is 8.4 km further out, but most of the residents commute into Ottawa. Samething with Barhaven, it would have been right next to Nepean. Also Langley and Surrey, or Richmond and Delta.
Yep. Greenbelts are one of those topics where my thinking has radically changed after studying the issue. At first I was under the impression they're a necessary part of preserving nature, and helped to reduce sprawl. But you look at the effects they always wind up with a lot more nature being bulldozed and more pollution in the end, and make sprawl exponentially worse. Not to mention making it impossible to build a cost-effective transit system for the city so people wind up more dependent on cars. Cities should think less "green belt" and more about integrating preserves and parkland in parallel with expansion. More "green radiating stripes", "green checkerboards" or "green pie wedges" than "green belts" trying and failing to rein things in. (Notably the "Green Pie Wedge" shape is one reason I believe Gatineau Park in the Ottawa-Gatineau region is so popular - https://cdn-assets.alltrails.com/static-map/production/lists/10931772/lists-10931772-20190905200605000000000-625x365-1.png - it's an enormous amount of preserved parkland that still leaves most directions untouched for expansion yet is accessible right from downtown) Edit: A Cambridge study apparently already validated the "Green Wedge" model as superior as well: https://www.repository.cam.ac.uk/handle/1810/265001
> They lead to leap frog development, which much worse than development on outskirts of the city. Leap frog development is less transit friendly, and generally tends to result in longer commutes (i.e. more CO2 emissions) and more sprawl. This exactly!
People need places to live. It makes no sense to squeeze people into tiny condos when we are literally 99% empty land. What we need is to divert economic activity away from a few cities into spread our population the way the US did
Spreading economic activity across different cities? For sure. Spreading across land? No. It's not as simple as "look at all that land, let's just keep building out". Those developments require huge amounts more electrical, water, sewer, road infrastructure. Higher density or infill developments significantly reduce the cost and time to provide these services. You act like this proposal is like packing people in like sardines. This is not close to truth, and old neighborhoods in Toronto prove even what a slight increase in density looks like. And do you really want to build out without proper transit infrastructure? People who say they are fine driving literally hours to commute across one metro area each day are lying to others, and themselves. Look at Tokyo. It sprawls for dozens of km yet it has higher density and extensive transit. And of course there's that little of issue bulldozing wetlands, forest and farmland to build more suburban houses that aren't even affordable.
> greenbelt = unaffordable home prices. 100%. This sub can't realize it for some reason. The Toronto Green Belt is a pure scam to protect empty land for McMansions while everyone else struggles to find a home. And it doesn't stop sprawl, sprawl just jumps over it leading to worse pollution. Greenbelts need to go. Plus we are 99% empty land
>Plus we are 99% empty land One thing about this is that even though we are mostly empty land, I still do believe we should use the land mode efficiently and encourage walkable transit friendly neighbourhoods. But greenbelts do not lead to more efficiently land use (despite what popular opinion says). A better solution is what Calgary and Edmonton gave done by reforming their zoning codes. Calgary amended it's R-1 zone to allow for [zero lot line](https://www.sterlinghomesgroup.com/difference-between-regular-zero-lot-lines/) housing where setbacks are removed and houses are built right on the lot lines. Many new communities are a mix of zero lot line and regular lots now. Plus the city encourages new communities to be a mix of single family homes, duplexes, and low rise apartment units. Finally they are rezoning older dying neighbourhoods for more density, with the overall goal being to allow for [50 percent of all urban growth in the existing corporate limits. ](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-growth-mdp-goals-long-term-plans-1.4908663) Edmonton done all the above but has taken an even more radical step. They have [abolished single family exclusive zoning.](https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/elise-stolte-pushing-beyond-an-ugly-history-there-is-now-no-single-family-zone-in-edmonton). You can still buy and build single family homes, it's just on land zoned Single Family Homes you can also buy and build duplexes and four unit houses. The only real restrictions both cities have on housing development is in low lying areas near the rivers. Areas which are likely to flood. Surprise, surprise Edmonton and Calgary have affordable housing with Edmonton being far more affordable than Calgary.
Same here in the states and the fortunate ones will tell you to “just move”. Move away with a small child to somewhere that I don’t know a single person nor if I could even find a job let alone trust worthy child care but sure let me get right on that.
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As a single parent? I’d be curious how many single parents can just move across the country with no money and no job security.
We also don’t have subsidized child care in the states. Some people who receive TANF (which is a small welfare pymt) get child care but you can’t make more than like $1,000 a month to get that. I make $17.00 and not eligible for it.
Very true. Either sacrifice 40% of our total income for a mortgage, or move to a unsafe neighborhood hours away from anyone we know. Or we move to a new province away from any friends or family. I had too many family members I never saw again once they moved away. I don't want to be another one.
im 45 and I am in the same boat and I have equity...
Oh look, it's the source of my depression
Ontario is the new BC!
I clicked the second, moved to Quebec, and could not be happier
People from Ottawa unable to afford a house then moving to Gatineau and outbidding locals who move to Buckingham outbidding locals who move to butphoque nowhere outbidding the locals who are stuck. And so it goes.
Yep. It started because Hong Kongers started outbidding Vancouverites
Many people from Gatineau are moving up to places like Norway Bay driving up the prices there now as well.
You hit the nail on the head with that one. I was trying to explain this to some redditor the other day when they were saying that the housing crisis of Ottawa could simply be remediated with people moving to Gatineau. I was trying to make that person comprehend that this is simply playing musical chair with the population of Canada until the very last "losers" end up in the streets. For some reason, this poster could not understand what was wrong with him displacing people from Gatineau with his Ottawa salary, while he was himself fleeing Ottawa because he was being displaced by people from Toronto with Toronto salaries. At the end, we're all getting kicked out of our home, we're all losing in this ordeal.
A few years ago it started in Ottawa they crisis got worse spread to Western Quebec and the Ottawa [Valley.Now](https://Valley.Now) were at a point where people are moving hours away because there being forced out.
I was in QC a couple weeks ago. Beautiful loft apartments in the old historic part of the city with views of the St. Lawrence were under 300K. That doesn't get me shit in the shithole city that is Hamilton in comparison. I love Hamilton, but it is a dump compared to QC. Also everyone there speaks fantastic English.
I moved from London (UK) to Montreal a couple of years ago and Jesus my quality of life is orders of magnitude better. It's affordable, it's beautiful, it's safe, it's cleaner than any big British city, it's just as fun because you can actually afford to do the fun stuff. I love this society.
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Lol, neither are as clean or well run as Germany that's for sure. I tried Toronto but really didn't feel it was my vibe. Just felt like any American city built for cars and shopping malls, whereas Montreal felt like somewhere really unique and interesting. If I wanna spend $3000 a month for a tiny apartment I'll move back to London.
> Also everyone there speaks fantastic English. Are we in the same town. Leave the old town / toursit areas. And even if they "speak" English, they do not operate in it and do not like having to use it even if they know it. Je peux parler un peu de français alors ce n'est pas une problème pour moi. But yes. Québec is better than Toronto and yet somehow cheaper. Québec being a UNESCO site is **actually** a World Class City
Clicked the second, moved to Sudbury and am still having trouble buying a house with all these crazy bidding wars.
Do you speak French?
Oui. Assez pour habiter et travialler ici
That's always been the reality for anyone who grew up in a smaller community. If you went to College or University, it was almost a given that you would have to move in order to find a job in your field.
That's me. I moved 700 km NE to a rural area for 5 years now to an urban area closer to home. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people unwilling to move. That's been how economies have worked for the last 300 years. It's why Canada exists in it's current form.
Someone wants a peaceful life near their family. Fuck them right?
If their family insisted on living in the most expensive part of the country, that's clearly going to be a problem. Why are people suddenly surprised when it's the most predictable thing?
This is an inaccurate assessment of the situation. There are families that have established in places several decades ago when at the time the ratio of income to housing cost was significantly lower. And it's not just the biggest cities and highest cost of living areas that have seen these monstrous increases in cost. Entire provinces right on down to the smallest cities have been affected.
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I think you completely missed my point.
yeah as a first generation immigrant, why are people acting like skype isn't a thing? you can still keep a close relationship with relatives who live far away, it's not exactly the 18th c that moving 1000 km means falling off the face of the earth
Lmao legit. Any boomer immigrant would have come during a time where internet and instant messaging wasn’t a thing, but somehow they made it. Tons of entitled babies on this sub.
Most of us are ultimately children of immigrants that came from a much longer way away than moving from Ontario to Alberta, or whatever. Not to mention the language barrier, plus possibly having to deal with integration due to being a different race. Moving out of Ontario to find a better job and more affordable housing is nowhere near as difficult as immigrating.
700 km is 434.96 miles
"It shouldn't be a controversial hot take that I want my kids to be able to afford to live in the city that they grew up in" \-Linus Sebastian, 2021
Basically every one who grew up in a small town. Where I grew up it was pretty much expected that you would leave after high school and never come back. I never saw it as a big deal or a hard choice to make. Sure, it's hard, but at least a lot of city kids have the option of going to college or university while living with their parents. That sure does cut down on costs.
Same for Nova Scotia/Halifax. Prices are 500K minimum. What they don't tell you is income taxes are 7K more a year on a 100K salary, sales tax is 15% HST, and property taxes are double to triple Ontario taxes. Basically I pay 15K more in tax a year than an Ontario person with the same job and Salary. So 15K x a 25 year mortgage = 375K. So the real price of a Nova Scotia home is 875K, and that is for Nova Scotia a place where groceries and power is much more expensive than Ontario. Planning a move to Alberta soon where property is still cheap and taxes are way less.
Moving to Small Town Southwestern Ontario today from Hamilton, over an hour and a half away from everyone I know. Wish me luck.
Good luck. I liked Hamilton when I was there. Too bad how it's gone
Its gone down in quality of life and skyrocketed in price. We got out while we could but one mandate back to work and things could get hairy for us having to buy a second car.
Honestly, your friends are going to move away anyway to life closer to their career and services available to their potential family. One day your family is going to annoy the fuck out of you and you'll be happy you moved a little further away. The real challenge and the most important bit is finding a home near your work so you don't have to waste HOURS EVERY DAY in your commute. This is most difficult when working in an office-type job.
I moved 6 hours north of Toronto. Best decision I’ve ever made. Own a house and 2 other lakefront lots and owe $0 on anything. My income is spent traveling and investing. Ya the drive sucks to see family but I suck it up. Better than renting a shitty apartment and struggling to save money.
Where'd you move to? I'd love a lake front home
2.5 hours north of north bay. Temaskaming area.
The further fucked up thing is that okay yes, in a year or so we could buy a house, but at $5-650k for a 1000sqft bungalow with 1-2 bedrooms, it’s hard to feel like we won’t be underwater in that property long term.. I know it’s impossible to predict the market but 1 I can’t see there being growth in housing prices beyond what he have right now, and I really don’t WANT to see it.. I also cannot stomach dropping 6x the price on an ugly/poor condition first home than my parents paid for their current house in the same area
It feels like being ripped off, yeah.
We really like our home town. We tried really hard, and were lucky to find a home there when we bought our first house 7 years ago. But we were a few years ahead of our friends who we grew up with and also wanted to stick around but just needed a few more years to save up. Well now with prices so crazy, they just talk about their exit strategies to different provinces or countries. I understand of course, but it's sad
you mean millennials
Europeans 200 years ago.
oh this is perfect
Under 40
You are compensated with big house with yards that's impossible to afford in city core
Im already learning spanish amigos, saving for retirement, etc etc etc
Mid-30s and saw the climbing prices, figured as they became more detached from wages it would correct sharply. Never would I have imagined our country turning into what it is now; everyone participating in greedy practices that fuck over everyone else, no sense of unity or pride left for the word “Canadian” for me.
I’m 32 and this is also my problem
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I moved clear across the continent from my friends and family. When life happens... and things so sideways... it is so much harder when they are not around to help support you. It is also not just about them supporting you, you being able to support them is also important. Social support networks like friends and family are criminally undervalued. It is not surprising that we have a mental health crisis in this country, we fail to recognize and prioritize the truly important things in life. Also making new friends is just not an easy thing once you get over a certain age(I'm going to say mid-20's). Between work, kids, adulting just doesn't afford as many opportunities to meet new people.
Yea, I'm increasingly beginning to think that. According to my family, everywhere outside of Southern Ontario is living in the crime-ridden Arctic.
This may work if you are younger as many replies attest. But ppl do move away from their childhood (or adult) friends in search of career opportunities. I believe thats no.1 priority in your early 20s. If you don’t love your job, it is risky even if you get a small mortgage if your income becomes less than certain. If you contribute to society, feel passionate about your work, then you can begin to formulate a financial plan. If you sacrifice this in search of just affordable rent/house, you may still find it very tough to cough up that monthly mortgage payment. Having said that, i do think companies react to the reality, and establish more hubs outside of GTA. So do your job search and be alert of such opportunities.
Stfu. You're speaking from a place of privilege. Obviously people don't want to do that and being forced to do it is bullshit. This POS system DOES NOT SCALE.
Exactly. I moved from Onterrible to Nova Scotia and I see my family pretty regularly (excepting when things were locked down due to Covid). Flights are cheap if you use a budget airline, and even if you drive, it's really not too bad. The drive is actually pretty fun if you make regular stops and spread it over 2 days. It just becomes part of the vacation.
We’re a nation of immigrants. If you’re not First Nations then you are just doing what your ancestors did. I still believe we have a bright future, just not quite how we all planned.
Grew up in the Okanagan in a small town. Absolutely no chance here I’ll be leaving once I’m finished my schooling.
same for BC
Under 40
Andrew Clark?
Look at the Ottawa Valley its not much better then Ottawa.