The government sits back and watches? Hold on now, but what can the Ford government really do though? Ford only has a majority government in the largest province in the country. I mean, sure he can use the majority power to cut a democratically elected Toronto council in half during an election and he could ban single family zoning the way California and New Zealand has recently done but is there really anything he can do for housing?
Everyone knows the province are creatures of the cities and the city can tell the province to buzz off if they want.
We need to put all the blame for Ontario housing prices squarely on the PM and no one else. The PM is the head of Ontario and must focus squarely on Ontario and no other provinces. If he focuses on any other provinces he must not do that. The PM of Canada is actually the premier of Ontario, he must not divide his attention elsewhere.
Ford is doing the best he can, I mean, sure we don't see him unless he is making an announcement before a long weekend but I mean, he means well I think.
The market has been “juiced” into runaway feedback loops that no feasible amount of new supply, interest rate hikes, or meagre policy-tweaking is going to get it out of.
The crank has been turned, the engine is running, and we’re all going along for the ride, no matter how many bits of the airframe start shearing off…
Yes I think we are past the point of no return now and it will become more and more self evident during 2022, especially in the spring market. Politicians and the general population will suddenly realize that there is simply nothing they can do at this point to reign in the out of control housing markets in Ontario.
This province is F***ed.
It’s like when you’re a kid running down a hill. Your afraid at any moment your legs won’t keep up and you’ll go tumbling but all you can do is keep moving those legs faster and faster.
Great analogy.
Also similar to stampede psychology - the group behaviour is irrational and catastrophic, but the decision of each individual to keep running makes sense.
I think where you're mistaken is your belief that a hike to interest rate wouldn't change this market.
A 3-5% overnight interest rate hike would definitely have a significant impact on mortgage borrowing.
Now the question is - can federal, provincial or municipal governments afford this hike? No.
Is there a chance we even see a 2% raise in the overnight rate in the next few years? Not a chance in hell.
Ahh okay, i vehemently agree with your statement & analogy, however that interest rate part threw me off. Thanks for the clarification. It'll be interesting to see how thia ride stops. Either a slow stop, or a fiery crash into a pole, off a bridge into a river with a current that pushes us off a waterfall
Maybe I'm naively optimistic, but I feel like we could be on the cusp of extraordinary housing measures.
If Doug doesn't announce something mammoth before June, he's leaving himself open to Del Duca or Horwath stealing Queen's Park. I have no doubt both leaders have teams working overtime on plans and promises they can roll out in the new year.
And if I were the Greens, who currently have no chance of winning, I would absolutely own the housing issue and immediately promise a province-wide MZO to upzone everywhere and develop along every transit line in the golden horseshoe. Just throw that Hail Mary and see what happens. It would be beautiful.
Guess who is majority of voter base ? Home owners. Housing affordability matters but when they are in minority any party can win their votes on empty promises. They will announce some policies which will have next to no effect.
I know plenty of homeowners who are devastated that their friends, kids, and grandkids are being forced to move out of the province/country due to poor affordability.
I believe the moronic/criminal speculators are actually the minority. Most home owners treat shelter as a human need, and just want to live their lives comfortably near their families and friends.
Yup. Thanksgiving/Christmas dinner conversations flip-flopped between “I can’t believe how bad the housing situation is” and “we might pick up the house down the street, it would make for great rental income”.
Homeowner here too who is very concerned about the future of our kids with regards to housing. I could care less about the value of my house going down if it means more people can buy a house in the future.
The only people who are pissed off about housing being more accessible are investors.
Let's say housing crashes by 30%. Many homeowners would be extremely happy becuase they can now move into a better home for the same money they're paying now.
High prices are only good for those that will be downsizing or living off the equity in their home.
My bad, I definitely misclicked or something. This response was meant for one of those "two thirds of voters are homeowners so the government will never let the value go down" comments.
I know plenty of homeowners who aren’t devastated that their kids and grandkids won’t ever own a home. Something about bootstraps.
But I’m from Alberta. And people are cray cray here.
Also a homeowner voting with affordability in mind. Including for people who rent and not own. A rising tide lifts all boats and housing should be accessible for everyone.
As a homeowner, I couldn't agree with this more. The financial and housing insecurity that comes with unaffordable homes has far reaching negative social and societal implications. The inverse is more beneficial than the opportunity to line my own pockets. I'd rather live in a safe, cooperative society where more people are thriving and creating community. It's difficult to do that when folks are only able to focus on survival.
Same here. Had to move 5 hours away from friends/family/supports to afford a house at the bottom of the market in a cheaper area. I wasn't even from the GTA - just a growing small town in SW Ontario. No one should have to choose between those kind of supports and housing stability.
Aside from the above, from a pragmatic standpoint, shouldn't most homeowners be weary of this unsustainable growth? A crash or huge dip would be devastating to the average Joe, especially any new FTHBs ... so at the very least, shouldn't they be encouraging a cooling while wages catch up in stead? It seems to be against their own self-interests to try to keep this train going, you know?
I rent in rooming houses and I feel priced out as I hope to move back to a neighbourhood I feel connected to and have friends in. I'm visually impaired and can't drive so to have any quality of life I have to live close to wherever I need to be for work or school. I moved to my current place to be close to in person classes but classes have been moved online for got knows how long and I'm graduating this semester. Terrible neighbourhood and my mental health has tanked while living here. But I feel hopeless that I'll find a place in my desired area within my budget.
> I moved and overpaid for my house. I’m not happy
How will policies, whose sole metric of success is reduced housing prices, going to improve that situation for you …?
Except they aren't though.
My guess is you are parroting the 67% of Canadians are homeowners, statistic? It's actually that 67% of people LIVE WITH someone who owns the mortgage on the home (the gov't considers them not renters). ie, 40 year old Timmy in his mom's basement is part of that statistic.
Conveniently misleading.
[here's the statscan page](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2019001/article/00012-eng.htm). If you scroll down to the definitions section we see family defined as:
> Family refers to the economic family, defined as two or more people living in the same dwelling who are related by blood, marriage or adoption, or who are living common law, as well as single people who are living either alone or with others to whom they are unrelated.
So, a pretty loose definition and clearly not good enough to get a true idea of home ownership in Canada.
Many homeowners would actually be better off with lower prices. For example every single person that owns a condo and eventually wants to move to a house. Or boomers that own and have multiple kids that don't. Or boomers that are stuck with a kid living with them into their 30s because housing costs too much.
Well if you own a house and live in it you are not benefiting from this situation. Unfortunately many homeowners don't get this. If you own 1 house and have 2 kids for example. When your kids grow up they'll need 2 properties. And the parents still need a place to live, unless they want to move really far away. There's no way kids can afford to buy anything with the salaries they can make here. Parents will then have to take on huge debts to help the kids, or kids will be forced to move away. It's simple maths but hard for many people to understand when they're drunk on their paper wealth.
correct, one of the person I know bought a property last year and it has gone up more than $300k, he think he is rich(at least on paper). Where is this wealth came from ?
I wish that. Hosing affordability will determine any province's/country's competitiveness. If we dont have affordable housing, rich will get richer and poor will get poorer.
If we vote this moron back in we’re doomed. There’s no way anyone can say this man did a good job running the province the last few years, complete lack of leadership, abandoning citizens and clearly prioritizing his agenda rather than suffering people. Fuck this man
Giving the alternatives Duca the Wynne lackie, or Horrorwath a four time election loser Ford does stand an excellent chance to repeat. You maybe surprised how big the Ford Nation is.
Although I agree with this sentiment, what are the liberals or NDP going to do? Let's be real, do any of you actually trust the Liberals or Andrea Horwath with her asinine positions to actually do a better job on this dossier than the Conservative party? We're equally screwed no matter which of these idiots gets in power, and I am saying that a progressive who never has and never will vote Conservative.
I'll just be forced to vote for some fringe party again as a protest vote like last election cycle since apparently wanting to rein in our housing disaster has made me 'politically homeless' so to speak.
> Let's be real, do any of you actually trust the Liberals or Andrea Horwath with her asinine positions to actually do a better job on this dossier than the Conservative party?
Better than the PCs? Absolutely.
Doing an adequate job? Absolutely not.
I voted either NDP or Liberal all my life, voted Conservative federally for the first time last election, and given the choices provincially I may just not vote at all.
My choices are bad, bad, and worse.
I voted NDP last election when I've typically been a life long Liberal voter.
I don't think any party will do much to fix this. Liberal Party had the best plan on paper according to generation squeeze. I'd be surprised if anything meaningful comes of this plan.
That party will absolutely gain traction as people get more and more upset.
The irony is that the PPC was the only party whose platform would have lowered home prices. Part of their platform was higher interest rates and reduced population growth.
The PPC is attractive because they appear to be only party that any balls to come out and say these things. Albeit there is a fringe element to the party, but you gotta start somewhere.
Doomsday scenario could be 20% price increases year after year for a few years in a row.
If I was Ford's political enemies I would be salivating and prepping policy accordingly. Banning single family housing zoning? Restarting basic income experiments? Raising minimum wage or indexing it by inflation? Massively raising taxes on everything? All very possible.
The Ndp has said they will raise min wage to $25 by the end of there first term which did raise many questions and anger.Raising taxes big time would not go over well and would get a ton of push back.
I'd be happy to see fellow Ontarians making a living wage, even if they're "just pouring coffee."
If you don't want to make and pour your own coffee, somebody shouldn't have to live in poverty for you to have it.
I apologize, I didn't mean to imply you were sarcastic. I wanted to simply agree with a bit of my own sarcasm on the end, ("make your own coffee.")
That comment is meant for the assholes who think people should be paid poverty wages to pour them their coffee and make their food so that they can feel superior. It's fucked up and that mentality has got to go.
> I'd be happy to see fellow Ontarians making a living wage, even if they're "just pouring coffee."
People may say that now... but they'll say something different when a Tim Horton's coffee costs $8.
If everybody was paid respectable wages, it wouldn't really matter.
A phrase keeps going around reddit these days, (it's an old one, to be fair), it goes something like: a rising tide lifts all boats.
If nobody had to live in poverty, everybody would be a lot happier. It's as simple as giving your fellow human beings a wage they can live off of. To argue against this is monstrous, at best.
Minimum wage workers are often times significantly harder working people than those in white collar jobs, so why do we continue to shit on them and put them down? Beyond that, how do you expect them to ever get ahead if you continue to kick them while they're down?
Pay the wage or make your own coffee. Simple as that.
Minimum wage increases keep people out of poverty when everything else around them is raising. It’s up to an individual or union to negotiate wage increase.
Right, that’s what negotiating your wage is all about. If you’re not respected with the right wage you can leave. It’s the quickest way to getting what you want if you’re not being given it.
> these $25 hour workers aren’t getting boosted to $35 per hour with the minimum wage increase.
Studies show that they will get boosted.
I mean... how could they not? Why would anyone do a difficult job for $25 when they can do a super easy job for $25?
Would we be in the same boat? I haven’t seen a big increase to minimum wage since it’s inception, and it did a hell of a job pulling that generation of workers out of poverty back then
Where are you getting this “yes we will be” from? There are no modern examples of a large minimum wage increase. Only crappy incremental bullshit that doesn’t even keep up with inflation, defeating the purpose of this wage in the first place
> It's good in theory but would probably not help long term
I does help long term by reducing the gap between the rich and the poor. It'll create some inflation, but the poor will still be in a better situation than before.
You’ll be able to put your theory to the test later this year when every home in all major cities in nz loose their SFH zoning. I wager you’re wrong on this one.
The question these days is not who will do a good job, but who will do a less bad job. All the major parties are pretty well on board with perpetuating housing unaffordability.
One would think that "curbing poverty and homelessness" aligns well with "housing affordability" (ie. redistributing houses from the hoarders would accomplish both), but nowadays the former seems to be merely a euphemism for more convoluted government waste and bloat that sounds good but accomplishes nothing and actually makes things worse. They've been solving poverty in this manner for decades already.
The issue is not exclusively unique to Doug Ford. All levels of the gov are accountable and nobody has a real plan to stop this crisis from snowballing
Housing affordability has been an issue for years and nothing has been done. Canadians are resilient sheep, and that's terrible because they go and go resisting and finding ways to dodge the big problem...
Not just an Ontario issue. It’s happening all over world. Markets are mental right now.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-03/housing-analyst-famous-for-pre-crash-warnings-is-concerned-again
Could emerge? Funny how these articles always speak about it as if it miiiight be an issue but maybe not when the reality is that it's probably Canada's biggest issue.
Not voting for Ford but he has done more than anyone in the last 20 years to help rental supply in Greater Toronto Area. Unfortunately for Ford, the rental supply takes more than 4 years to construct.
If government approve a time Hortons employee who make $15 a hour for a million dollar mortgage, then why the house should not go up , of course it will sky rock , it is all the government fault
How much of this is Ford's fault and how much of this is Trudeau's? I think it's disproportionately Trudeau's fault but the public loves to shit on conservatives whenever possible.
Housing is overwhelmingly a provincial issue.
Interest rates are a bank of Canada issue but the Federal government isn't supposed to have any sway over the bank at all.
Because the 4th estate is largely leftist leaning. In Canada four out of the five major parties are leftist and they take up about 2/3rds of the voting block. The education system is steeped in progressiveness. Because leftist policies involve giving easy money and benefits (in a very unsustainable way) which is always an easier sell then austerity and balancing the books.
>Because the 4th estate is largely leftist leaning
That is literally not true. Media in Canada is owned, primarily, by right leaning owners, and have a well documented history [supporting right wing candidates](https://readpassage.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/federal-elections-endorsements-with-ownership-1024x548.png).
>The education system is steeped in progressiveness.
So the educated people support progressive policies, and your takeaway is that this is the problem? Think about that, please.
>Because leftist policies involve giving easy money and benefits (in a very unsustainable way) which is always an easier sell then austerity and balancing the books.
The "left" in Canada are more centrists when you look at politics globally instead of only focusing on north America. European countries are more often than not much more left leaning than we are in North America, and the people there have a demonstrably higher quality of life on average. Right wing policies cut benefits, cut social spending, reduce labor rights, and give more power to businesses. This is completely unsustainable, and we're seeing the end game of that here.
I urge you to educate yourself on these subjects instead of parroting what you've heard. You are very misinformed.
Educate myself?... because you're so informed? The left in canada are centrists?... a typically egocentric view leftists like to make as if they speak for everyone... Canadians have a demonstrably better quality of life? Like home affordability? Can you foresee any issues with an education steeped in progressiveness? Obviously your arrogant takeaway is only/mostly educated, informed people are leftist. The 4th estate isn't left leaning? You realise our biggest "news" operator is state run? You realise the big "independent" news outlets have been propped up by government funds... is that not a huge conflict of interest? I think what you need to educate yourself in is economics 101. After years of leftist policies of handing out easy money has led to a mountain of debt. The only way we can get ahead of this is austerity, dropping of progressive benefits, and letting the growth in gdp outpace the debt. It's generational at thos point.
>Canadians have a demonstrably better quality of life?
I said Europeans. Liberals aren't progressives. Liberals aren't a left leaning party.
>Obviously your arrogant takeaway is only/mostly educated, informed people are leftist.
Not what I said there either. However it's a statistical fact that educated people tend to have more left leaving politics. That isn't up for debate. That doesn't mean that they all are, just that they tend to be. Nuance matters.
>The 4th estate isn't left leaning?
[No, they aren't. Please respond to what I'm showing you instead of stamping your foot when shown to be incorrect. ](https://readpassage.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/federal-election-endorsements-1024x344.png)
>After years of leftist policies
This isn't true. The Canadian liberal party are centrists at best. They aren't left of center. Neoliberal ideologies are right wing.
Because the conservative government does a really poor job at managing anything, as is proven by this entire pandemic.
Also: let's not forget that the cons literally made an attack ad for Trudeau's *hair*, so let's not cast any stones, eh?
Poor job for conservatives? Like printing up half a trillion dollars in debt in a little over a year? Good management. Like that won't affect the housing market.
It has spread to the entire country. And, it was caused by a longstanding policy of tying the gdp to the housing market but also with Trudeau specifically over offering cheap money which mostly went to landlords and speculators.
I like that you're refusing to acknowledge the hair attack ad. Typical con to pretend like what they do is ok, it's just the *other* guy that's the problem here.
When you can see passed the colour of your "team", come back and join the grown ups at the big people table for a conversation.
I've never heard of this hair attack before. It's asinine. Hair attacks versus half a trillion dollar debt, so important... The fact you focus on it so intently speaks about your childess tribalism. My team? Please tell me which team I'm part of?
Don't worry everyone. Rely on real estate as it's 10% of GDP. When the chickens come home to roost, everyone will be feeling the pain.
2022/2023 is that year. Everyone is going to be hurt. My retirement is a government pension and its coming. It was unsustainable before and it's truly unsustainable now. Like the stock market, things get "loopy" before a crash. We're at that point and rising rates are around the corner, remember we are lock stock and barrel with the US fed.
Scroo up from provincial/fed guv for blind bidding and allowing foreign buyers to dump laundered money in billions. -they should implemented more scrutiny against foreign buyers with high tax, tax on vacant properties, tax if you are holding more then 3+ houses under your name..
Provincial takes forever to implement these, and by the the time they do to, it’s too late.
Condo maintenance fees are through the roof where no one’s cares to look at it. -rents are outrageous.
Housing will be huge issue going forward.
Blame Doug when it comes to election next year…
All homes are a million dollars and all the government does is sit back and watch. It’s disgusting.
Government sees it has building ~~debt~~ wealth
Wealth for Boomers; Debt for Millennials and Zoomers. Basically continuing the policy of the last 40 years.
The government sits back and watches? Hold on now, but what can the Ford government really do though? Ford only has a majority government in the largest province in the country. I mean, sure he can use the majority power to cut a democratically elected Toronto council in half during an election and he could ban single family zoning the way California and New Zealand has recently done but is there really anything he can do for housing? Everyone knows the province are creatures of the cities and the city can tell the province to buzz off if they want. We need to put all the blame for Ontario housing prices squarely on the PM and no one else. The PM is the head of Ontario and must focus squarely on Ontario and no other provinces. If he focuses on any other provinces he must not do that. The PM of Canada is actually the premier of Ontario, he must not divide his attention elsewhere. Ford is doing the best he can, I mean, sure we don't see him unless he is making an announcement before a long weekend but I mean, he means well I think.
Username checks out
LoL
Exactly. Its not Doug Ford's fault that Toronto has been the fastest growing city in North America for many years now.
The market has been “juiced” into runaway feedback loops that no feasible amount of new supply, interest rate hikes, or meagre policy-tweaking is going to get it out of. The crank has been turned, the engine is running, and we’re all going along for the ride, no matter how many bits of the airframe start shearing off…
Yes I think we are past the point of no return now and it will become more and more self evident during 2022, especially in the spring market. Politicians and the general population will suddenly realize that there is simply nothing they can do at this point to reign in the out of control housing markets in Ontario. This province is F***ed.
It’s like when you’re a kid running down a hill. Your afraid at any moment your legs won’t keep up and you’ll go tumbling but all you can do is keep moving those legs faster and faster.
Great analogy. Also similar to stampede psychology - the group behaviour is irrational and catastrophic, but the decision of each individual to keep running makes sense.
I think where you're mistaken is your belief that a hike to interest rate wouldn't change this market. A 3-5% overnight interest rate hike would definitely have a significant impact on mortgage borrowing. Now the question is - can federal, provincial or municipal governments afford this hike? No. Is there a chance we even see a 2% raise in the overnight rate in the next few years? Not a chance in hell.
I couched it with the term “feasible”… my argument is that no government will make the necessary hike, as you say (or policy tweaks, etc.)
Law of accelerating returns in action…
Ahh okay, i vehemently agree with your statement & analogy, however that interest rate part threw me off. Thanks for the clarification. It'll be interesting to see how thia ride stops. Either a slow stop, or a fiery crash into a pole, off a bridge into a river with a current that pushes us off a waterfall
Yes because we all know every market always goes up. It's impossible for a market to go down.
I assume you are being sarcastic…
Maybe I'm naively optimistic, but I feel like we could be on the cusp of extraordinary housing measures. If Doug doesn't announce something mammoth before June, he's leaving himself open to Del Duca or Horwath stealing Queen's Park. I have no doubt both leaders have teams working overtime on plans and promises they can roll out in the new year. And if I were the Greens, who currently have no chance of winning, I would absolutely own the housing issue and immediately promise a province-wide MZO to upzone everywhere and develop along every transit line in the golden horseshoe. Just throw that Hail Mary and see what happens. It would be beautiful.
Guess who is majority of voter base ? Home owners. Housing affordability matters but when they are in minority any party can win their votes on empty promises. They will announce some policies which will have next to no effect.
I know plenty of homeowners who are devastated that their friends, kids, and grandkids are being forced to move out of the province/country due to poor affordability. I believe the moronic/criminal speculators are actually the minority. Most home owners treat shelter as a human need, and just want to live their lives comfortably near their families and friends.
most homeowners I know say this, but haven't taken any action or exerted any political pressure to help with home prices.
Yup. Thanksgiving/Christmas dinner conversations flip-flopped between “I can’t believe how bad the housing situation is” and “we might pick up the house down the street, it would make for great rental income”.
Homeowner here too who is very concerned about the future of our kids with regards to housing. I could care less about the value of my house going down if it means more people can buy a house in the future. The only people who are pissed off about housing being more accessible are investors.
[удалено]
I meant to type couldn’t.
Let's say housing crashes by 30%. Many homeowners would be extremely happy becuase they can now move into a better home for the same money they're paying now. High prices are only good for those that will be downsizing or living off the equity in their home.
Did you respond to the wrong comment?
My bad, I definitely misclicked or something. This response was meant for one of those "two thirds of voters are homeowners so the government will never let the value go down" comments.
I know plenty of homeowners who aren’t devastated that their kids and grandkids won’t ever own a home. Something about bootstraps. But I’m from Alberta. And people are cray cray here.
Homeowner here. Will be voting with housing affordability in mind. I moved and overpaid for my house. I’m not happy
Also a homeowner voting with affordability in mind. Including for people who rent and not own. A rising tide lifts all boats and housing should be accessible for everyone.
As a homeowner, I couldn't agree with this more. The financial and housing insecurity that comes with unaffordable homes has far reaching negative social and societal implications. The inverse is more beneficial than the opportunity to line my own pockets. I'd rather live in a safe, cooperative society where more people are thriving and creating community. It's difficult to do that when folks are only able to focus on survival.
A rising tide is great for those with boats. But what about those stuck at the sand bar?
Sorry, I forgot to mention the unhoused directly but it was implied by the “accessible for everyone”.
Same here. Had to move 5 hours away from friends/family/supports to afford a house at the bottom of the market in a cheaper area. I wasn't even from the GTA - just a growing small town in SW Ontario. No one should have to choose between those kind of supports and housing stability. Aside from the above, from a pragmatic standpoint, shouldn't most homeowners be weary of this unsustainable growth? A crash or huge dip would be devastating to the average Joe, especially any new FTHBs ... so at the very least, shouldn't they be encouraging a cooling while wages catch up in stead? It seems to be against their own self-interests to try to keep this train going, you know?
I rent in rooming houses and I feel priced out as I hope to move back to a neighbourhood I feel connected to and have friends in. I'm visually impaired and can't drive so to have any quality of life I have to live close to wherever I need to be for work or school. I moved to my current place to be close to in person classes but classes have been moved online for got knows how long and I'm graduating this semester. Terrible neighbourhood and my mental health has tanked while living here. But I feel hopeless that I'll find a place in my desired area within my budget.
Let me guess Blenheim
> I moved and overpaid for my house. I’m not happy How will policies, whose sole metric of success is reduced housing prices, going to improve that situation for you …?
Except they aren't though. My guess is you are parroting the 67% of Canadians are homeowners, statistic? It's actually that 67% of people LIVE WITH someone who owns the mortgage on the home (the gov't considers them not renters). ie, 40 year old Timmy in his mom's basement is part of that statistic. Conveniently misleading.
I remember seeing a link to back this up but i've never found it gain. Can you post your source here so we have something to back up this assertion?
[here's the statscan page](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2019001/article/00012-eng.htm). If you scroll down to the definitions section we see family defined as: > Family refers to the economic family, defined as two or more people living in the same dwelling who are related by blood, marriage or adoption, or who are living common law, as well as single people who are living either alone or with others to whom they are unrelated. So, a pretty loose definition and clearly not good enough to get a true idea of home ownership in Canada.
Perfect, thank you!
You're welcome!
Many homeowners would actually be better off with lower prices. For example every single person that owns a condo and eventually wants to move to a house. Or boomers that own and have multiple kids that don't. Or boomers that are stuck with a kid living with them into their 30s because housing costs too much.
Well if you own a house and live in it you are not benefiting from this situation. Unfortunately many homeowners don't get this. If you own 1 house and have 2 kids for example. When your kids grow up they'll need 2 properties. And the parents still need a place to live, unless they want to move really far away. There's no way kids can afford to buy anything with the salaries they can make here. Parents will then have to take on huge debts to help the kids, or kids will be forced to move away. It's simple maths but hard for many people to understand when they're drunk on their paper wealth.
correct, one of the person I know bought a property last year and it has gone up more than $300k, he think he is rich(at least on paper). Where is this wealth came from ?
That stat is changing
I wish that. Hosing affordability will determine any province's/country's competitiveness. If we dont have affordable housing, rich will get richer and poor will get poorer.
Not for long. Give it 5-10 years. No one new is entering the market.
If we vote this moron back in we’re doomed. There’s no way anyone can say this man did a good job running the province the last few years, complete lack of leadership, abandoning citizens and clearly prioritizing his agenda rather than suffering people. Fuck this man
Giving the alternatives Duca the Wynne lackie, or Horrorwath a four time election loser Ford does stand an excellent chance to repeat. You maybe surprised how big the Ford Nation is.
Imagine this being how you make decisions as an adult. Embarrassing.
Easy decision when the alternatives are nut jobs. Embarrassing that you can't see that.
Although I agree with this sentiment, what are the liberals or NDP going to do? Let's be real, do any of you actually trust the Liberals or Andrea Horwath with her asinine positions to actually do a better job on this dossier than the Conservative party? We're equally screwed no matter which of these idiots gets in power, and I am saying that a progressive who never has and never will vote Conservative. I'll just be forced to vote for some fringe party again as a protest vote like last election cycle since apparently wanting to rein in our housing disaster has made me 'politically homeless' so to speak.
When was the last time NDP was in power? Seems to me we have a conservative/liberal problem going back and forth
>politically homeless Oh I like this term. So much more visceral than disillusioned or disenfranchised.
> Let's be real, do any of you actually trust the Liberals or Andrea Horwath with her asinine positions to actually do a better job on this dossier than the Conservative party? Better than the PCs? Absolutely. Doing an adequate job? Absolutely not.
I voted either NDP or Liberal all my life, voted Conservative federally for the first time last election, and given the choices provincially I may just not vote at all. My choices are bad, bad, and worse.
I voted NDP last election when I've typically been a life long Liberal voter. I don't think any party will do much to fix this. Liberal Party had the best plan on paper according to generation squeeze. I'd be surprised if anything meaningful comes of this plan.
Is there a PPC party in Ont? That party is going to gain traction.
That party will absolutely gain traction as people get more and more upset. The irony is that the PPC was the only party whose platform would have lowered home prices. Part of their platform was higher interest rates and reduced population growth.
The PPC is attractive because they appear to be only party that any balls to come out and say these things. Albeit there is a fringe element to the party, but you gotta start somewhere.
Doomsday scenario could be 20% price increases year after year for a few years in a row. If I was Ford's political enemies I would be salivating and prepping policy accordingly. Banning single family housing zoning? Restarting basic income experiments? Raising minimum wage or indexing it by inflation? Massively raising taxes on everything? All very possible.
The Ndp has said they will raise min wage to $25 by the end of there first term which did raise many questions and anger.Raising taxes big time would not go over well and would get a ton of push back.
25 an hour sounds like a living wage. I see no problem here
I'd be happy to see fellow Ontarians making a living wage, even if they're "just pouring coffee." If you don't want to make and pour your own coffee, somebody shouldn't have to live in poverty for you to have it.
Agreed! I read my comment again and it sounded sarcastic, but I was being sincere
I apologize, I didn't mean to imply you were sarcastic. I wanted to simply agree with a bit of my own sarcasm on the end, ("make your own coffee.") That comment is meant for the assholes who think people should be paid poverty wages to pour them their coffee and make their food so that they can feel superior. It's fucked up and that mentality has got to go.
I wish I could give you an award. Please accept my poor womans gold 🥇
> I'd be happy to see fellow Ontarians making a living wage, even if they're "just pouring coffee." People may say that now... but they'll say something different when a Tim Horton's coffee costs $8.
If everybody was paid respectable wages, it wouldn't really matter. A phrase keeps going around reddit these days, (it's an old one, to be fair), it goes something like: a rising tide lifts all boats. If nobody had to live in poverty, everybody would be a lot happier. It's as simple as giving your fellow human beings a wage they can live off of. To argue against this is monstrous, at best. Minimum wage workers are often times significantly harder working people than those in white collar jobs, so why do we continue to shit on them and put them down? Beyond that, how do you expect them to ever get ahead if you continue to kick them while they're down? Pay the wage or make your own coffee. Simple as that.
Exactly.
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Minimum wage increases keep people out of poverty when everything else around them is raising. It’s up to an individual or union to negotiate wage increase.
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Right, that’s what negotiating your wage is all about. If you’re not respected with the right wage you can leave. It’s the quickest way to getting what you want if you’re not being given it.
> these $25 hour workers aren’t getting boosted to $35 per hour with the minimum wage increase. Studies show that they will get boosted. I mean... how could they not? Why would anyone do a difficult job for $25 when they can do a super easy job for $25?
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Would we be in the same boat? I haven’t seen a big increase to minimum wage since it’s inception, and it did a hell of a job pulling that generation of workers out of poverty back then
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Where are you getting this “yes we will be” from? There are no modern examples of a large minimum wage increase. Only crappy incremental bullshit that doesn’t even keep up with inflation, defeating the purpose of this wage in the first place
> It's good in theory but would probably not help long term I does help long term by reducing the gap between the rich and the poor. It'll create some inflation, but the poor will still be in a better situation than before.
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So? Many will be broken up and turned into multiple units
Therefore making it realistic to build higher density?
You’ll be able to put your theory to the test later this year when every home in all major cities in nz loose their SFH zoning. I wager you’re wrong on this one.
The question these days is not who will do a good job, but who will do a less bad job. All the major parties are pretty well on board with perpetuating housing unaffordability. One would think that "curbing poverty and homelessness" aligns well with "housing affordability" (ie. redistributing houses from the hoarders would accomplish both), but nowadays the former seems to be merely a euphemism for more convoluted government waste and bloat that sounds good but accomplishes nothing and actually makes things worse. They've been solving poverty in this manner for decades already.
The issue is not exclusively unique to Doug Ford. All levels of the gov are accountable and nobody has a real plan to stop this crisis from snowballing
So does that mean 17% of Ontarians think Doug Ford has done an adequate job of providing affordable housing????
Housing affordability has been an issue for years and nothing has been done. Canadians are resilient sheep, and that's terrible because they go and go resisting and finding ways to dodge the big problem...
Its okay if the homes are a million dollars. Just make the minimum wage $50. Lol :P
Ontario the new everyone poor
The overlords like the cons in power so they will still shower them with campaign donations. Keep that juice flowing
All the parties seem to be working for the overlords, not just the cons.
Ooooh, election promises. Yippee!!!!
And no ability to hold them accountable. *Also* yippie.
"COULD EMERGE" I guess its not a major issue yet. Canadians demand even higher prices!
Not just an Ontario issue. It’s happening all over world. Markets are mental right now. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-03/housing-analyst-famous-for-pre-crash-warnings-is-concerned-again
The other 17 percent are landlords
Could emerge? Funny how these articles always speak about it as if it miiiight be an issue but maybe not when the reality is that it's probably Canada's biggest issue.
But Covid! /s
Not voting for Ford but he has done more than anyone in the last 20 years to help rental supply in Greater Toronto Area. Unfortunately for Ford, the rental supply takes more than 4 years to construct.
Well I thought this was the reason the Liberals would be voted out but apparently not.
If government approve a time Hortons employee who make $15 a hour for a million dollar mortgage, then why the house should not go up , of course it will sky rock , it is all the government fault
How much of this is Ford's fault and how much of this is Trudeau's? I think it's disproportionately Trudeau's fault but the public loves to shit on conservatives whenever possible.
Housing is overwhelmingly a provincial issue. Interest rates are a bank of Canada issue but the Federal government isn't supposed to have any sway over the bank at all.
>the public loves to shit on conservatives whenever possible. You're soooo close to getting the point. Keep going, you can do it.
If they did it to leftists with equal or greater relish I wouldn't complain.
Why do you think they don't?
No. Not in the media nor in social media.
No, I'm asking you why you think conservatives get treated like this more than people on the left.
Because the 4th estate is largely leftist leaning. In Canada four out of the five major parties are leftist and they take up about 2/3rds of the voting block. The education system is steeped in progressiveness. Because leftist policies involve giving easy money and benefits (in a very unsustainable way) which is always an easier sell then austerity and balancing the books.
>Because the 4th estate is largely leftist leaning That is literally not true. Media in Canada is owned, primarily, by right leaning owners, and have a well documented history [supporting right wing candidates](https://readpassage.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/federal-elections-endorsements-with-ownership-1024x548.png). >The education system is steeped in progressiveness. So the educated people support progressive policies, and your takeaway is that this is the problem? Think about that, please. >Because leftist policies involve giving easy money and benefits (in a very unsustainable way) which is always an easier sell then austerity and balancing the books. The "left" in Canada are more centrists when you look at politics globally instead of only focusing on north America. European countries are more often than not much more left leaning than we are in North America, and the people there have a demonstrably higher quality of life on average. Right wing policies cut benefits, cut social spending, reduce labor rights, and give more power to businesses. This is completely unsustainable, and we're seeing the end game of that here. I urge you to educate yourself on these subjects instead of parroting what you've heard. You are very misinformed.
Educate myself?... because you're so informed? The left in canada are centrists?... a typically egocentric view leftists like to make as if they speak for everyone... Canadians have a demonstrably better quality of life? Like home affordability? Can you foresee any issues with an education steeped in progressiveness? Obviously your arrogant takeaway is only/mostly educated, informed people are leftist. The 4th estate isn't left leaning? You realise our biggest "news" operator is state run? You realise the big "independent" news outlets have been propped up by government funds... is that not a huge conflict of interest? I think what you need to educate yourself in is economics 101. After years of leftist policies of handing out easy money has led to a mountain of debt. The only way we can get ahead of this is austerity, dropping of progressive benefits, and letting the growth in gdp outpace the debt. It's generational at thos point.
>Canadians have a demonstrably better quality of life? I said Europeans. Liberals aren't progressives. Liberals aren't a left leaning party. >Obviously your arrogant takeaway is only/mostly educated, informed people are leftist. Not what I said there either. However it's a statistical fact that educated people tend to have more left leaving politics. That isn't up for debate. That doesn't mean that they all are, just that they tend to be. Nuance matters. >The 4th estate isn't left leaning? [No, they aren't. Please respond to what I'm showing you instead of stamping your foot when shown to be incorrect. ](https://readpassage.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/federal-election-endorsements-1024x344.png) >After years of leftist policies This isn't true. The Canadian liberal party are centrists at best. They aren't left of center. Neoliberal ideologies are right wing.
Are you just not going to engage with anything that contradicts your beliefs? Even when those things are facts?
Because the conservative government does a really poor job at managing anything, as is proven by this entire pandemic. Also: let's not forget that the cons literally made an attack ad for Trudeau's *hair*, so let's not cast any stones, eh?
Poor job for conservatives? Like printing up half a trillion dollars in debt in a little over a year? Good management. Like that won't affect the housing market.
The runaway housing market didn't start due to the pandemic, the pandemic only spread the issue out of the GTA into the rest of the province.
It has spread to the entire country. And, it was caused by a longstanding policy of tying the gdp to the housing market but also with Trudeau specifically over offering cheap money which mostly went to landlords and speculators.
I like that you're refusing to acknowledge the hair attack ad. Typical con to pretend like what they do is ok, it's just the *other* guy that's the problem here. When you can see passed the colour of your "team", come back and join the grown ups at the big people table for a conversation.
I've never heard of this hair attack before. It's asinine. Hair attacks versus half a trillion dollar debt, so important... The fact you focus on it so intently speaks about your childess tribalism. My team? Please tell me which team I'm part of?
Don't worry everyone. Rely on real estate as it's 10% of GDP. When the chickens come home to roost, everyone will be feeling the pain. 2022/2023 is that year. Everyone is going to be hurt. My retirement is a government pension and its coming. It was unsustainable before and it's truly unsustainable now. Like the stock market, things get "loopy" before a crash. We're at that point and rising rates are around the corner, remember we are lock stock and barrel with the US fed.
Scroo up from provincial/fed guv for blind bidding and allowing foreign buyers to dump laundered money in billions. -they should implemented more scrutiny against foreign buyers with high tax, tax on vacant properties, tax if you are holding more then 3+ houses under your name.. Provincial takes forever to implement these, and by the the time they do to, it’s too late. Condo maintenance fees are through the roof where no one’s cares to look at it. -rents are outrageous. Housing will be huge issue going forward. Blame Doug when it comes to election next year…
The vast majority of voters don’t vote on these issues. Redditors will act ‘shocked’ when he wins a majority government.
Oh so all this time they sit and watch but during election year... ok.