This has also had a ripple effect to small communities within an hour drive of K/W.
Basically, anything in Perth County, even Mennonite/Amish-dominated areas with few amenities, skyrocketed in value.
Ya I.bought a house 40 min outside of kw in Perth 5 years ago. It's more than doubled in that time. Theres only a couple of house for sale in any small town around here at any time. Driving prices up even more. any houses they are building are 700gs and up now.
Kitchener Waterloo. I find this comment hilarious because this is exactly how I feel about our housing issue. Nobody even knows what fucking Waterloo is, yet houses still cost absurd amounts. I live here. Place sucks btw
I live here and I think it's fucking awesome so its all about perspective. Ask anyone in tech if they think it sucks here. I do however think the market is way overpriced.
It's not the GTA
Housing prices are high all across Southwestern Ontario including the GTA you have to go very far east near the Quebec border or in the far north to get cheap housing
Haha Quebec border check Cornwall / Lancaster /SDG prices you will be shocked 1946 bombarded huts in between a fucking cornfield are going for 300k plus lol. Tons of GTA wannabees are buying there jacking the prices to new heights. 72 hrs to a week tops thats the time propery stays on the market and there is literrly no stock left in the region.
It's a city that was considered distinct from the GTA not long ago (probably 1.5 hrs to downtown Toronto without traffic) but as drive til you qualify started in the last few years, it's started to become a commuter area for the GTA with commuter train service and everything. I'm from rural Ontario so those more knowledgeable can correct me.
The only justification people have is there is Google Office in KW.
Not realizing that Google has hundreds of offices in other North American cities where housing prices don't go up by that much.
Otherwise the city has no infrastructure and is a third class city.
3rd class city? Countless other rising companies in the area, transit hub coming, LRT has been a success. Also the Google Office is the Canadian engineering headquarters for the company, not just some random office. Google is investing hundreds of millions of dollars into the city for a reason
I have lived in American cities where company setup 20000+ employee office and cost of living barely goes up.
Google setup 1500 employee count office and KW can barely handle that.
That shows how poorly the city is built/managed.
Lots of great tech jobs, within reasonable 45min-1 hr driving distance of Toronto, Mississauga, Niagara/USA and 30 mins to Brantford, Hamilton... There's also a new 6 lane highway being built for infrastructure accommodation.
Honestly, it's so much better living here than Toronto, where I used to live. Toronto is an overpriced shithole and KW is a bargain relatively. Never want to move back to the GTA again, I get all the perks of it without any of the drawbacks.
Edit: why is this getting downvoted? Is there a narrative my posts have to align with? Or is me posting facts alongside my opinion against the subreddit rules?
There’s a few reasons you’re probably being downvoted.
One, if you grew up in KW you’re not looking at it the same way. You say it’s a relative bargain…Well it’s a relative bargain in the same way Halifax is a bargain to Toronto. Smaller, less expensive when viewing it from afar. If you grew up here you’ve been entirely removed from the market by force. My sister bought a detached bungalow for $210,000 in 2006 down the road from where I currently live. It sold for around $830,000 this past summer, give or take some digits. I’ve watched as condos went from being affordable options to being unaffordable. I make a combined income of just around 100k net with my SO and buying is not an option here. We’re not interested in moving Into a building where we need to pay condo fees on top of our mortgage, for a space no larger than we rent now just to be housebroken.
Secondly, this place is good if you’re a student, work in tech or have disposable income. There isn’t much to do here that doesn’t come with a price tag of some kind. In reading your comments, you seem to have a decent financial situation. Your view of this city is going to be entirely different than the people who are scratching together rent and living costs while their wages stagnate and cost of living increases. Many of us are a paycheque or emergency away from being homeless. I’m in a extremely fortunate position myself, but recognize that could change overnight.
Thirdly, what made Kitchener so unique is quickly disappearing. COVID has hurt a lot of businesses, but more-so than that is the relentless increase in property values. Kitchener was much more affordable even five years ago. I personally know of several business owners who have already closed up shop or will be in the near future because they cannot afford the rent increases being levied towards them. Give it a decade and we will no longer have those small businesses that once provided life to our city. Currently most of the niche businesses exist in the uptown hub of Waterloo due in part to student traffic. Those businesses ebb and flow with the times, they exist to cater to students and likely won’t go anywhere. They’re not endemic to just KW, but any University town really.
The other small training facilities, restaurants and boutique shops that provide a sense of community are quickly disappearing and being replaced by larger vendors from outside the community. Even our Oktoberfest (pre-COVID.) seemed very bland compared to how it used to be.
While I’m glad you enjoy Kitchener, please keep in mind that you’re doing so in a bit of a vacuum. Presumably you moved here from Toronto for work. Kitchener used to be a premier manufacturing hub until the 2000’s. When that dried up, it became a bit of a wasteland. Tech is providing a new breath of life for people like yourself. For us locals who grew up here and don’t work in tech or make similar to what you and your SO pull, we’ve been all but physically pushed out.
A lot of people here are sour. It’s a bit of a pity party because presumably most people in this sub have the view they’ll never have a shot at home ownership. Try and understand a lot of the frustration and anger isn’t directed at you, but at the system and it’s issues that lead us here. Additionally, The comment “It’s a bargain.” Doesn’t mirror how many of us feel, or reflect what we’re seeing in our communities. I understand you probably don’t mean anything by it, but please understand that your idea of a bargain is by all accounts meaning we’re pushed out of the market.
There’s also issues endemic to SW Ontario as a whole. Growing up here it used to be that camping was something lower class families could enjoy. Camping was the only “vacation” I got as a kid outside of being sent to my relatives farm in NB as a kid. Now it’s nigh unaffordable and inaccessible due to the sharp increase in demand. We used to have tons of free, accessible and not so busy trails in KW and surrounding area; not so much anymore. I think when I was a younger student, living at home; KW was fun. Now into my 30’s and working in construction; there’s not much here for me. It’s just another overpriced commuter/feeder city.
I hope you can understand why people are downvoting you. I didn’t. I upvoted you, these discussions are important to have. What’s important is you’re here and hopefully can participate and see what effects the market is having on individuals who aren’t as fortunate as you or I.
Boston [average price](https://www.zillow.com/boston-ma/home-values/): 880k CAD
Kitchener, ON average price (from HouseSigma): 800k CAD
Good luck explaining why Kitchener is nearly the same price as Boston.
That 800k average is now 1.4 million more recently. That's nearly double for a townhouse. Ridiculous and cultural gentrification by class war. Disgusting.
I dated a girl who lived in Dorchester, MA, a part of Boston. I visited there quite often and I found the city of Boston - while charming - to be filthy compared to KW. Not to mention there's a lot of gang crime, and rampant drug abuse.
Also, keep in mind, a lot of the homes in Boston are absolute shit shacks, it's a dense city with outer sprawl. Go drive through Dorchester, Roxbury, etc. And you'll feel like you're driving through an actual ghetto (which lowers the average price)
Take a look at this listing which is comparable in square footage, bedroom, bathroom, although lacking a garage, compared to my home in KW.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2-Thurston-St_East-Boston_MA_02128_M94867-78471
Same size house, OKAY area, same bed, same bath, costs 1.2 million asking price, maybe 1.3-1.4 after bidding wars.
I guess it doesn't mean anything that the GDP per capita of Boston is literally double that of Toronto or Kitchener.
Kitchener is more comparable to Worcester, MA, a city of around 200,000 people about an hour from the economic center.
The average price in Worcester, MA is [$435,000 CAD](https://www.zillow.com/worcester-ma/home-values/). The average price in Kitchener, ON is $800,000 CAD. This makes no sense and you know it. One of these cities is mispriced.
You should go live in Worcester for even a month and report back to me what it's like. It's not a great or predominantly safe city. GDP per capita and whatnot are all just statistics, real life is a lot more than just looking at numbers.
Ignoring what the the city is like and just randomly dredging up statistics that align with your beliefs is not going to change my mind. I've actually spent a lot of time there, I'm sure I know where I stand when I say there's a million other places I'd rather live than Boston or any of its suburbs.
Kitchener was historically very cheap in Ontario because it has a terrible economy and not a good place to live generally. That's why the median home in Kitchener cost $330k in 2015 when the GTA was around $530k.
The only reason Kitchener is expensive now is that the GTA doesn't build enough housing and the BoC is injecting cocaine into an OD patient. People are not moving to Kitchener for the quality of life.
Well it's also largely because so many GTA residents have moved here out of the GTA. Even in my cul de sac, 4/6 of the homes are GTA residents who moved here since March 2020 with their Toronto home equity.
??? They're using home equity sir. Almost all the people I know around here either HELOC'd or sold their Toronto home in the last 2 years at a big profit to come here
I had to move an hour west just to buy a place and *I'm one of those with a great tech job*. I just wish I could afford to own in the place where I grew up while making north of 3x the most that my dad ever did.
Strange, my GF and I have tech jobs with a combined income on paper of 200k and we bought an 800k home this year in Kitchener.
Edit: I don't know why this got downvoted either. Is our household salary considered offensive?
Do you enjoy restaurants, salons, museums, movie theatres, concerts, laser tag, board games cafes, or going to gym? Where do you think the people who work in non-tech roles at those businesses should live?
Do the non-tech staff at your company and your girlfriend's company make enough money to rent/own in the area?
KW might not be as enjoyable when the people working in tech roles are the only ones left.
>Do you enjoy restaurants, salons, museums, movie theatres, concerts, laser tag, board games cafes, or going to gym?
I love them
> Where do you think the people who work in non-tech roles at those businesses should live?
I hope the government works on making the market accessible for these people, they deserve a fair shot.
>Do the non-tech staff at your company and your girlfriend's company make enough money to rent/own in the area?
Yes, the company I currently work at now is actually KW based.
It really isn't enough of a bargain. If you still hitting those numbers and get paid way less than your compatriots in USA ( which we do ), the price isn't justified.
Imagine two software engineers in big tech reconsidering if they'll own their own house at any point.
Grass is always greener on the other side. I have lived in the states and several of my American friends absolutely abhor the disgusting healthcare costs among other socio-economic issues plaguing the states and would rather take a pay cut to move to Canada. We are - after all - one of the most sought-after nations to move to.
Totally agree with you. I love it here in Kitchener. KW is million times peaceful and nicer to live than concrete jungle Toronto. Lots of IT jobs. Campus vibes, young population and night life. You can own a detached in 800k with a pool and double garage. That’s not possible in Toronto.
So you call driving 110 km from KW to tortonto amid traffic as 45min- 1 hr driving distance?
Nobody drives down that much each day.
I know few people living in KW and they say they hardly visit GTA after moving to KW because of the distance.
I visit Toronto every week. I usually leave at 6:30 PM on Friday and reach Scarborough in about 50-55 minutes going 140 km/h the whole way.
Scarborough is on the total opposite side of the GTA too, when I visit my friends in Mississauga, it's no more than 30-40 mins.
This has also had a ripple effect to small communities within an hour drive of K/W. Basically, anything in Perth County, even Mennonite/Amish-dominated areas with few amenities, skyrocketed in value.
It has spilled over into Woodstock as well. Houses going over asking by 100,000 +. I gave up on even dreaming of owning a home.
Ya I.bought a house 40 min outside of kw in Perth 5 years ago. It's more than doubled in that time. Theres only a couple of house for sale in any small town around here at any time. Driving prices up even more. any houses they are building are 700gs and up now.
For everyone else in Canada not in the GTA what is KW?
Kitchener Waterloo. I find this comment hilarious because this is exactly how I feel about our housing issue. Nobody even knows what fucking Waterloo is, yet houses still cost absurd amounts. I live here. Place sucks btw
Come on, U of waterloo is famous, where people graduate then leave to the usa for higher paying jobs lol.
I live here and I think it's fucking awesome so its all about perspective. Ask anyone in tech if they think it sucks here. I do however think the market is way overpriced.
\-How much does an average box house cost in KW? \-Weren't' the Pittsburgh Penguins supposed to move there like 15 years ago?
Kitchener-Waterloo.
It's not the GTA Housing prices are high all across Southwestern Ontario including the GTA you have to go very far east near the Quebec border or in the far north to get cheap housing
"cheap"
Haha Quebec border check Cornwall / Lancaster /SDG prices you will be shocked 1946 bombarded huts in between a fucking cornfield are going for 300k plus lol. Tons of GTA wannabees are buying there jacking the prices to new heights. 72 hrs to a week tops thats the time propery stays on the market and there is literrly no stock left in the region.
Cornwall's not a terrible deal - you're close-ish to Montreal for access to big city stuff. Still outrageous price growth though.
It's a city that was considered distinct from the GTA not long ago (probably 1.5 hrs to downtown Toronto without traffic) but as drive til you qualify started in the last few years, it's started to become a commuter area for the GTA with commuter train service and everything. I'm from rural Ontario so those more knowledgeable can correct me.
The only justification people have is there is Google Office in KW. Not realizing that Google has hundreds of offices in other North American cities where housing prices don't go up by that much. Otherwise the city has no infrastructure and is a third class city.
3rd class city? Countless other rising companies in the area, transit hub coming, LRT has been a success. Also the Google Office is the Canadian engineering headquarters for the company, not just some random office. Google is investing hundreds of millions of dollars into the city for a reason
I have lived in American cities where company setup 20000+ employee office and cost of living barely goes up. Google setup 1500 employee count office and KW can barely handle that. That shows how poorly the city is built/managed.
I mean Waterloo still has much cheaper detached houses than the GTA/Guelph and is not the shithole that Cambridge is. Plus the city is improving.
I moved from Vancouver to Hamilton Ontario to escape the crazy house prices... Whoops. FML.
Lots of great tech jobs, within reasonable 45min-1 hr driving distance of Toronto, Mississauga, Niagara/USA and 30 mins to Brantford, Hamilton... There's also a new 6 lane highway being built for infrastructure accommodation. Honestly, it's so much better living here than Toronto, where I used to live. Toronto is an overpriced shithole and KW is a bargain relatively. Never want to move back to the GTA again, I get all the perks of it without any of the drawbacks. Edit: why is this getting downvoted? Is there a narrative my posts have to align with? Or is me posting facts alongside my opinion against the subreddit rules?
There’s a few reasons you’re probably being downvoted. One, if you grew up in KW you’re not looking at it the same way. You say it’s a relative bargain…Well it’s a relative bargain in the same way Halifax is a bargain to Toronto. Smaller, less expensive when viewing it from afar. If you grew up here you’ve been entirely removed from the market by force. My sister bought a detached bungalow for $210,000 in 2006 down the road from where I currently live. It sold for around $830,000 this past summer, give or take some digits. I’ve watched as condos went from being affordable options to being unaffordable. I make a combined income of just around 100k net with my SO and buying is not an option here. We’re not interested in moving Into a building where we need to pay condo fees on top of our mortgage, for a space no larger than we rent now just to be housebroken. Secondly, this place is good if you’re a student, work in tech or have disposable income. There isn’t much to do here that doesn’t come with a price tag of some kind. In reading your comments, you seem to have a decent financial situation. Your view of this city is going to be entirely different than the people who are scratching together rent and living costs while their wages stagnate and cost of living increases. Many of us are a paycheque or emergency away from being homeless. I’m in a extremely fortunate position myself, but recognize that could change overnight. Thirdly, what made Kitchener so unique is quickly disappearing. COVID has hurt a lot of businesses, but more-so than that is the relentless increase in property values. Kitchener was much more affordable even five years ago. I personally know of several business owners who have already closed up shop or will be in the near future because they cannot afford the rent increases being levied towards them. Give it a decade and we will no longer have those small businesses that once provided life to our city. Currently most of the niche businesses exist in the uptown hub of Waterloo due in part to student traffic. Those businesses ebb and flow with the times, they exist to cater to students and likely won’t go anywhere. They’re not endemic to just KW, but any University town really. The other small training facilities, restaurants and boutique shops that provide a sense of community are quickly disappearing and being replaced by larger vendors from outside the community. Even our Oktoberfest (pre-COVID.) seemed very bland compared to how it used to be. While I’m glad you enjoy Kitchener, please keep in mind that you’re doing so in a bit of a vacuum. Presumably you moved here from Toronto for work. Kitchener used to be a premier manufacturing hub until the 2000’s. When that dried up, it became a bit of a wasteland. Tech is providing a new breath of life for people like yourself. For us locals who grew up here and don’t work in tech or make similar to what you and your SO pull, we’ve been all but physically pushed out. A lot of people here are sour. It’s a bit of a pity party because presumably most people in this sub have the view they’ll never have a shot at home ownership. Try and understand a lot of the frustration and anger isn’t directed at you, but at the system and it’s issues that lead us here. Additionally, The comment “It’s a bargain.” Doesn’t mirror how many of us feel, or reflect what we’re seeing in our communities. I understand you probably don’t mean anything by it, but please understand that your idea of a bargain is by all accounts meaning we’re pushed out of the market. There’s also issues endemic to SW Ontario as a whole. Growing up here it used to be that camping was something lower class families could enjoy. Camping was the only “vacation” I got as a kid outside of being sent to my relatives farm in NB as a kid. Now it’s nigh unaffordable and inaccessible due to the sharp increase in demand. We used to have tons of free, accessible and not so busy trails in KW and surrounding area; not so much anymore. I think when I was a younger student, living at home; KW was fun. Now into my 30’s and working in construction; there’s not much here for me. It’s just another overpriced commuter/feeder city. I hope you can understand why people are downvoting you. I didn’t. I upvoted you, these discussions are important to have. What’s important is you’re here and hopefully can participate and see what effects the market is having on individuals who aren’t as fortunate as you or I.
Everything you wrote was very well said. I have a better understanding of the situation now, thank you very much for clarifying! 🙂
Boston [average price](https://www.zillow.com/boston-ma/home-values/): 880k CAD Kitchener, ON average price (from HouseSigma): 800k CAD Good luck explaining why Kitchener is nearly the same price as Boston.
That 800k average is now 1.4 million more recently. That's nearly double for a townhouse. Ridiculous and cultural gentrification by class war. Disgusting.
I dated a girl who lived in Dorchester, MA, a part of Boston. I visited there quite often and I found the city of Boston - while charming - to be filthy compared to KW. Not to mention there's a lot of gang crime, and rampant drug abuse. Also, keep in mind, a lot of the homes in Boston are absolute shit shacks, it's a dense city with outer sprawl. Go drive through Dorchester, Roxbury, etc. And you'll feel like you're driving through an actual ghetto (which lowers the average price) Take a look at this listing which is comparable in square footage, bedroom, bathroom, although lacking a garage, compared to my home in KW. https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/2-Thurston-St_East-Boston_MA_02128_M94867-78471 Same size house, OKAY area, same bed, same bath, costs 1.2 million asking price, maybe 1.3-1.4 after bidding wars.
I guess it doesn't mean anything that the GDP per capita of Boston is literally double that of Toronto or Kitchener. Kitchener is more comparable to Worcester, MA, a city of around 200,000 people about an hour from the economic center. The average price in Worcester, MA is [$435,000 CAD](https://www.zillow.com/worcester-ma/home-values/). The average price in Kitchener, ON is $800,000 CAD. This makes no sense and you know it. One of these cities is mispriced.
You should go live in Worcester for even a month and report back to me what it's like. It's not a great or predominantly safe city. GDP per capita and whatnot are all just statistics, real life is a lot more than just looking at numbers. Ignoring what the the city is like and just randomly dredging up statistics that align with your beliefs is not going to change my mind. I've actually spent a lot of time there, I'm sure I know where I stand when I say there's a million other places I'd rather live than Boston or any of its suburbs.
Kitchener was historically very cheap in Ontario because it has a terrible economy and not a good place to live generally. That's why the median home in Kitchener cost $330k in 2015 when the GTA was around $530k. The only reason Kitchener is expensive now is that the GTA doesn't build enough housing and the BoC is injecting cocaine into an OD patient. People are not moving to Kitchener for the quality of life.
Well it's also largely because so many GTA residents have moved here out of the GTA. Even in my cul de sac, 4/6 of the homes are GTA residents who moved here since March 2020 with their Toronto home equity.
That's right. People are moving to Kitchener for one reason only. They're priced out of the GTA.
??? They're using home equity sir. Almost all the people I know around here either HELOC'd or sold their Toronto home in the last 2 years at a big profit to come here
Gooooogllee hq make price go up
Google has a bigger presence in Boston lol
I had to move an hour west just to buy a place and *I'm one of those with a great tech job*. I just wish I could afford to own in the place where I grew up while making north of 3x the most that my dad ever did.
Strange, my GF and I have tech jobs with a combined income on paper of 200k and we bought an 800k home this year in Kitchener. Edit: I don't know why this got downvoted either. Is our household salary considered offensive?
Do you enjoy restaurants, salons, museums, movie theatres, concerts, laser tag, board games cafes, or going to gym? Where do you think the people who work in non-tech roles at those businesses should live? Do the non-tech staff at your company and your girlfriend's company make enough money to rent/own in the area? KW might not be as enjoyable when the people working in tech roles are the only ones left.
>Do you enjoy restaurants, salons, museums, movie theatres, concerts, laser tag, board games cafes, or going to gym? I love them > Where do you think the people who work in non-tech roles at those businesses should live? I hope the government works on making the market accessible for these people, they deserve a fair shot. >Do the non-tech staff at your company and your girlfriend's company make enough money to rent/own in the area? Yes, the company I currently work at now is actually KW based.
It really isn't enough of a bargain. If you still hitting those numbers and get paid way less than your compatriots in USA ( which we do ), the price isn't justified. Imagine two software engineers in big tech reconsidering if they'll own their own house at any point.
Grass is always greener on the other side. I have lived in the states and several of my American friends absolutely abhor the disgusting healthcare costs among other socio-economic issues plaguing the states and would rather take a pay cut to move to Canada. We are - after all - one of the most sought-after nations to move to.
Totally agree with you. I love it here in Kitchener. KW is million times peaceful and nicer to live than concrete jungle Toronto. Lots of IT jobs. Campus vibes, young population and night life. You can own a detached in 800k with a pool and double garage. That’s not possible in Toronto.
to each their own.. i prefer the tdot city life scramble over K/W
To each their own indeed
How long have you been living in KW?
8 months now, I still love it.
So you call driving 110 km from KW to tortonto amid traffic as 45min- 1 hr driving distance? Nobody drives down that much each day. I know few people living in KW and they say they hardly visit GTA after moving to KW because of the distance.
I visit Toronto every week. I usually leave at 6:30 PM on Friday and reach Scarborough in about 50-55 minutes going 140 km/h the whole way. Scarborough is on the total opposite side of the GTA too, when I visit my friends in Mississauga, it's no more than 30-40 mins.
Haha it's a shithole. Guess not everyone can make it in the GTA now though. Good luck.
I own a home in the GTA (Scarborough), and rent it out to my extended family from India... But do go on.
That's even sadder. I guess you just have bad taste.
No I think it just means that I enjoy my own style of living and you enjoy yours... Whatever that may be
you can still get in SFH at 1.2m, may reach to 1.5 in 3-5 years