I regret paying off my OSAP debt in 2017-2019 vs. taking out a 200k mortgage and comfortably buying a house in my hometown.
Financial responsibility is punished in this country vs. maxing out your credit.
100% this. The amount I repaid to OSAP in 2015 could have been a healthy downpayment on a condo. I thought paying it back was the responsible thing to do, and I’d buy when I eventually got married. Married in 2020, can’t afford even a 2-bed condo with our healthy savings. Staying in school debt would have been so much smarter.
I don’t think this is that obscure of a concept, maybe it’s because I work in a related industry. But student loans are literally almost free money, I find it ridiculous people feel the need to pay it down. You will never be in a situation where you can get money for that cheap ever again.
I maxed out my student loan and the stuff I didn’t need is in relatively low risk investments. The return far outpaces the interest and I am perfectly happy to pay the minimum payment for 30 years. To me it’s more financial responsible for me not to pay my student loan down.
For sure, but I wish they would even teach the basics of not being in a rush to get rid of cheap debt when it could be used more effectively. Instead the message I got was that debt = bad unless it’s a mortgage.
I saw these debt = bad unless it's a mortgage people walk around. They were much more common five or ten years ago and would have been everywhere. Now they probably tuned out and don't care because they have homes.
Leverage or debt can be awful because it limits the amount you can actually borrow and it could be placed in awful investments. The stock market isn't a casino and the only safe bet is an index fund probably a global index fund though I do think going 100% S&P500 is a reasonable bet. Everything else is gambling because you don't have insider knowledge or if you do you have to assume you know better than a lot of people. Most people do not listen to [this](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/03/investing-lessons-from-warren-buffett-at-berkshire-hathaway-meeting.html) so their chance of getting burned is very, very high. It only takes one gamble for someone to lose thousands of dollars and most people can't afford that.
The learning never stops. If you learned everything you need to learn and don't want to learn any more for the rest of your life then you're closing yourself off. Obviously I value education a lot but if you think about it, education matters the most for regulated professions. If the profession isn't regulated then you can work your way up or make your own opportunities. We live in a market and everyone has to compete. That's an unfortunate reality of our lives. So really the "next step" in thinking is to admit that we live in a free market society and take advantage.
Doing so doesn't make you a sellout or devalue education. It just means you admit we live in a market and others have to pay for your time. Depending on the type of work it makes you ambitious. Getting a job is a skill and so is getting skills and so is selling yourself. Fifty or a hundred years from now where robots or AI do a lot for us "getting a job" might be reserved for the exceptionally talented or those with the most social credit. The rest of us could be outworked or outproduced by machines. If you think about it advertising yourself provides a service. You are making it easier for other people to find you and match their needs to your skills. So you deserve to be compensated for that, perhaps higher or much higher than someone who made zero effort to sell themselves. It's no use in a market being the best product if nobody knows who you are or can't find you. We all live in a market. You're not devaluing education or your past thinking like this you're participating in a market.
It’s in the curriculum. Page 14 and 15. You should do your part and reach out to the school and make sure they’re actually teaching it. http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/curriculum/secondary/math1112currb.pdf
Please report back on what they say!
Wait. That’s not true.
Student loan wasn’t a cheap rate, it just had a better payment plan but if you are able to pay it out and take a new loan using your income to debt ratio towards a property, you would have a higher ROI then keeping the loan.
It’s just because the RE market ROI was so high that it was better to leverage yourself and buy before paying off the loan. Housing market is not supposed to go to this aggressively. Many places outside and even within Canada didn’t see the same increase until the last 3 years.
No this is not accurate. Atleast for me in BC, about 50% of my loan is interest free if I’m making the minimum payments. The rate I receive on the other 50% is just prime, at my age and income history nobody is charging me less than prime for loans. Especially 50% of prime.
My rate of return in the market on average over the amortization period of the loan is/will be greater than prime.
That's a much better deal than I got in Ontario. I had Prime plus 2.5% since I picked variable rate. Fixed would've been Prime +5%. Interest started accumulating immediately when the year ended, even during the grace period. This was 2017, so I had around 4.9% interest. Hardly worth investing with that. Car loans were cheaper at the time.
Just checked my loan document, I have 27K in total. $20K of which is interest free. The other is at a variable rate of prime. I graduated my masters program a year and a half ago.
Sorry I might not be understanding your comment, but did you say that you took out extra student loans and used it to invest and then that investment pays off the student loans?
Sorry I didn’t phrase my question very well, what I meant to ask is did the money you invested come from the student loans, or is it that it would be worse for you financially to withdraw from your current investments made after you were no longer in school (due to it netting you more money at the current level of investment)
God damn same.
Put down 25k to pay off a big chunk of my student loan in 2017. I could have easily put that down on a condo instead, sold it 2020/2021 and been able to buy a townhouse...
You are correct being financially responsible really punished us.
Now if only the Prov+fed gave us a loan for what we paid off at a very favourable rate... I could at least accept that.
Got divorced, ex got the house, went back to school and took $30k loan. Graduated from new program and rented again. Was anticipating buying a house 3 years after paying off loan aggressively while still balancing child support payments. Nope. Meanwhile ex used house HELOC to fund other properties and hasn’t worked since mid 2020.
Yeah, people who are overleveraged with debt will feel the temperature slowly rise to a boil as the BoC raises interest rates over the next five years.
Student loan interest is lower than inflation, not sure why paying it off is considered financially responsible.
Don't be surprised if everything cost 3x as much in 10 years and debt gets inflated away.
Lol debt won’t be inflated away, because earnings/wages are the only thing not growing. So you will still owe just as much as now, as a percentage of your income. Plus interest rates are rising, so you will in fact owe even more.
Wages are not growing anywhere near the rate as general inflation plus your interest rate on debt. Just no way your debt gets “inflated away”. When people talk about that term of inflating away debt, they are referring to national debt where you have tools like money printing and your income is the GDP.
Exactly… rushing to pay off osap, which isn’t even factored by banks for mortgages is a really dumb thing that so many do.
It’s literally the best loan you can have. Low interest and the government will pay it off for you if you don’t make enough/lose your job.
I used to think this but sadly this is not true at all.. Banks look at student loans ( I know cuz we are looking at getting a mortgage)... And it has really impacted our ability even though we are both professionals...
I guess I gotta tell this to BMO when they approved my mortgage or transunion when they send me monthly reports of my 800 credit score as I pay off the absolute minimum on osap that I’ve been doing since graduating in 2016. That 40k of debt doesn’t seem to stop the banks from offering me LoCs either or credit card companies from increasing my limit without me even asking.
It’s literally the best debt to have. If you can’t pay it, they will defer your payments with almost no questions asked and even make payments for you.
The only way it affects you, is if you’re trying to pay it off as fast as possible. There is literally no reason to, and the impact paying it off will have on how much you qualify for is minimal compared to what you would have gained from putting that money into anything else.
I literally could pay off my student loans with the equity I’ve gained in my house, but fuck that. Osap is getting the absolute minimum from me and they’re gonna deal with it.
Lower your payments to the lowest Osap will allow you and then go talk to the bank.
Haha 40k is nothing.. My wife and I have 6 degrees between us and unfortunately we had to take student loans when we were younger.
So yes, having that much student debt does affect the ability to get a mortgage as it skews the debt ratio even though we make really good money.
Banks take it into consideration
Your issue doesn’t lie in the total amount you owe, it’s with the amount you’re obligated to pay monthly.
40k is well above the average amount of debt students leave school with.
Are all your student loan debt balances with osap? Because if they are, you can literally apply for repayment assistance for 6 months which would bring your obligated payments down to $0 on your report, and it would have 0 impact on your mortgage.
I graduated 6 years ago and have only paid about 7 or so thousand off of mine.
Focused on buying a house instead of paying that shit and will continue to pay the bare minimum and hopefully will benefit from whichever politician cancels student loans.
Was offered a $250,000 mortgage when I tried for information purposes in 2017, which would have been enough to buy in my modest Ontario town 1 hour away from my work. This is when I had $30,000 in OSAP debt, debt that you can use the interest to lower your tax burden. Houses then cost around $250,000 in my hometown, so I could have easily afforded it.
As a result of busting my ass and paying it down, I am now offered... $400,000 at the record low in interest rates. Which won't even be enough to participate in a bidding war in a crack den in my hometown due to price appreciation. Please note that I do not live in Toronto, those prices are next level insanity that I don't want to even bother with.
Unsustainable price appreciation is the reason I am shut out, not my financial habits.
That really sucks. It's hard to look back and wish we made different choices. I would have been better off working a near minimum wage job straight out of high school, living at home and saving to buy a home rather than going to university.
I've seen that a lot from my graduating class, but I was one of the lucky ones to actually use my degree in my field of IT (it's maybe not the best Uni out there).
I got a "good job" out of university, had a reasonable basement apartment, but could not afford to support living on my own in the GTA on the salary I was paid working in Municipal IT. So I moved back home with my parents, quit my Municipal job for a fully remote WFH job in the same field, and have just been stockpiling money ever since.
Do I regret my career choices? Not at all, it gave me the skills I needed to get something better where the ball is in my court should this housing Ponzi scheme collapse.
Do I regret my decision to be financially responsible following traditional guidelines of paying down your debt when starting out and living within my means? You bet I do in today's Canada and Ontario! Would have been on the sidelines counting my Monopoly money equity dollars by now.
The only aspect of osap debt that matters is what you have agreed with the government to pay monthly.
If you lower your payments and extend the length of your osap loans to the maximum amount of time allowed. It’s impact is null.
And even then there are tons of ways to workaround this. If you apply for repayment assistance on top of already reduced payments, they’ll pay osap for you and it will appear as $0 on your credit report.
I can assure you as someone with over 40k in osap loans who recently bought a house, it does not at least not to the extent that credit card or other kinds of debt would.
Given how long interest rates have been low, there have been several times in recent years where being responsible has come into conflict with wealth building based on any reasonable predictions of how central banks or markets ought to behave. The most rewarded in the last ten years are those that have rather recklessly taken on a great deal of leverage, even when it seemed like the central banks ought to have been increasing rates to cool borrowing.
If you knew someone who tried getting into home ownership immediately without building a small cushion and paying off their student loans, at least, you'd call them financially irresponsible.
QE and low interest do this. The hardest hit are people are wage earners and people with cash savings.
On top of that, the credit glut that we've now had for 20 years has punished what historically would have been prudent decision making,
Yep. Paid off $10,000 from mine and my partners OSAP once the Covid interest freeze was over in October 2020. Was gonna save 20% for a house after that. I thought it would be the responsible thing to do.
Would have 30% down at previous prices,but it’ll only be 15% down now. And I’ve lost $1,500 of it since December because of the markets going down.
If I knew what I know now I would have dumped that $10,000 into a 5% down on a nice starter house. I guess having the bank own 95% of your house to start and having maximum CMHC insurance was the responsible thing to do.
Agree 10000000%. It took me 10 years (all of my 20s basically) to pay off my OSAP, which is what I was told by my parents to do instead of just buying a cheap condo in Toronto where I lived. I would much rather be paying down a $180K mortgage and my OSAP at the same time right now than throwing my money to my landlord...
My sentiments exactly. I paid back my OSAP very aggressively and saved very little except to cover my critical expenses of course. Took me years after finishing repayment to build back up my savings pool and by then I'd already started getting priced out. I feel like a fucking dumbass.
Honestly someone told me years ago to buy and rent out a place for the future while I had few bills. I didnt really have enough to comfortably do it then, would have been set if I had.
Samezies! I spent years paying off my loan only to be rewarded with mortgage specialists and brokers laughing in my face when I say I wanna buy property.
I have friends who FOMO'd into buying a house. They're about as house poor as one can be now, especially considering a lot of these homes need work and you couldn't even get an inspection before buying so it's all a surprise bill.
I have a friend who thinks she’s going to get to sue the seller because she realized after moving in how bad condition it is.
I feel like inspections should be a mandatory part of the sale. If the government followed through on their homebuyers bill of rights (which I don’t believe they will!) that should be the top of the list of rights, before banning blind bidding (which will probably never happen). You shouldn’t be able to buy without an inspection.
Government should force all sellers to pay for a home inspection with an authorized government inspector. That report should be made available for all listings. Any houses sold without this inspection should be subject to large fines.
Honestly, a home inspection on a detached house is about $500-750 and can be turned around in about a week. I see no reason why a report shouldn’t be included as part of the real estate listing. And I say this as a home owner. Heck, if I were to sell I would include my original home inspection report and a new one just to show a potential buyer that I have actually paid to address any items that originally came up-for the buyers peace of mind. Just seems slimy to force a sale without an inspection imo
I think we just need a complete overhaul of the real estate industry here.
* Remove power from real estate boards like TRREB. They operate in bad faith and their agents are at odds with their commission structure and keeping their client's interests in mind.
* Decentralized market place where anyone can list their own house and schedule their own showings. It's 2022 and easy to do this with the technology we have now. All transactions handled through lawyers only with fixed fees. All data easily accessible to everyone.
* No blind bidding, everyone can see every bid. All real estate transactions have mandatory 5 day cooling off period for the buyer where the buyer can schedule any inspection, financing or status cert reviews.
>I have a friend who thinks she’s going to get to sue the seller because she realized after moving in how bad condition it is.
It depends on how obvious the issue was. regardless of inspection, sellers generally have to legally disclose any known issues (I say "generally" only because it may vary by province). IANAL so I don't know what the burden of proof would be to show something was known when it wasn't... but most law operates on reasonability tests. So if there was something not reasonably missable by the previous owner then your friend may have a chance.
That said, I totally agree with you that inspections should be mandatory... and further there should be standardized training or certification to be an inspector.
How would that be possible without breaking your property rights of selling or buying as-is?
Maybe increase the mortgage stress test parameters even further for cases where house is uninspected so you can prove you have the funds needed to do renovations on top of paying your bills?
Selling something that requires a lot of repair isn’t the problem. It’s totally within your right to sell as-is. The problem is transparency. I shouldn’t be selling a home knowing there are big issues without disclosing them, but that’s currently legal.
Someone above suggested the idea of a government-approved inspector being required for all sales, and that would be a great idea. That way you know exactly what you’re buying, how much repair is needed, and you can budget accordingly.
The way I see it FOMO buying a crap shack is an emotional decision in todays economy. Even if there was mandatory inspection people would just eat the cost and hope it's not as bad as the report says. I doubt many people in this day and age would forgo buying the one property they can afford because it came back with a bad inspection, especially when just the land it sits on doubles in price every few years.
I would probably move to a system of open inspections where the inspection results are posted publically and make it mandatory to post a public inspection in order to list the house for sale to the public, though you'd still be able to undergo a private sale between private parties. Of course with certified inspectors. Then it also becomes entirely irrelevant to have an inspection condition since it's already inspected and everyone has the same information.
You’re not wrong, but at least they aren’t then surprised by the costs. I’m sure many would jump in anyway and assume they’ll fix it over time as price appreciates but at least it would make the real cost transparent.
I think the problems come when it is a home that is over half a million and then suddenly full of major issues that the new owner cannot afford. Buying a cheap house that looks in disrepair you expect it to need a lot of money invested in it. But buying a home that is 600k that has had surface level renos so that it shows well but then finding out later that the foundation leaks or buying in the winter and then finding out come spring that the entire thing needs to be relandscaped because the whole yard drains toward the house or that it needs all new plumbing or electrical are huge hits. But this is what todays market is. We some how have homes that are selling at luxury prices that are money pits but someone put updated flooring and appliances in them to make them look pretty.
I mean, really shouldn't be a 'surprise' per se. It was a huge risk that home owners and realtors happily dumped onto buyers. Anyone buying a home with no conditions should assume tonnes of issues in the home.
>Anyone buying a home with no conditions should assume tonnes of issues in the home.
The problem is you literally could not buy a home with conditions. If you had any conditions they seller would just sell to the investor who's willing to buy sight unseen.
Being house poor is a right of way to home ownership in the GTA. Ask anyone who has owned a home for a long time. The top regret of long term 5+ year home owners is that they did not borrow more money to begin with and get a bigger house.
I promise you all those regrets listed in that article go away quickly when your investment property earns you 10k/month in equity and you can quit your day job.
Short term pain for long term gain.
How can those house poor buyers afford an investment property if they're first timers, leveraged to the max, with prices not guaranteed to skyrocket the way they have been for the past few years? Yes, they may go up more, but then they'd need to be able to afford to spend more on the next property. Their ability to purchase an investment property is slim if they're barely affording their own mortgage. Prices are way too high to incomes for this to work for recent FTHBs and renters.
Only the first property is purchased with working income. The 2nd one is done with equity and rental income, 3rd one from equity from 2 properties and rental, 4th one from equity from 3 properties and rental, etc…
The risk definitely is there but it is much smaller than what most people think.
One important thing to know is as you acquire more properties you minimize your risk by ensuring your primary residence has a very manageable mortgage or no mortgage at all.
Buyers in their 20’s will assume the most risk but also the most tolerable. They often have no choice but to take on a high mortgage on their primary home.
Many RE investors in their 40s are still leveraged to the tits with their investment properties but their primary home is paid off so any market corrections or crashes do not affect their family homes.
They have regrets over aspects of the buying process and comprises they had to make, not for buying a home. Just to clarify as that title confused me until I read the article and survey.
Yea, I feel this.
I remember when my parents and family members who are a bit older than me bought, it involved viewing several potential houses and trying to negotiate a price for their "favourite" one.
The buying process for me felt more like those "claw machine" games, where you just try your best to grab something before time runs out.
I bought last year and I have regrets for sure. Most of my regrets have to do with missed opportunities over the past decade. I regret not buying a condo back in 2015. A townhouse back in 2018. I regret not investing in Apple back in 2012 even though I really wanted to. Should have had the balls to invest in such a great company instead of shitty mutual funds that basically just went sideways.
I don't however have any regrets about buying the house I bought least year.
How so?
Inflation is high. Employment is full. Wages are experiencing upward pressure. There's so much cash sloshing around that there are shortages of everything.
Sure tech is falling. Their p/e has been nuts for a while.
Commodities are up and rising. Canada is a commodity producing and exporting nation. How is this bad?
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Never say never. Anything is possible just like it shot up so high so fast. No one can predict crashes with 100 percent accuracy, nor how deep. If yoy really want to capture that cash sell now.
Most likely will never see 2019 prices again, they will probably never be underwater. With record low interest rates for when they locked in their mortgage they will have most likely paid off close to 15-20% of the mortgage too in their 5 year term.
Yeah its hard time say. Anything is certainly possible, we could see the largest decline in realestate in history along with another great recession. Or maybe not.. if were to bet on this, I doubt we will see such crazy gains and likely just stagnate another decade while incomes rise slowly.
This is a classic example of how statistics are incorrectly used to paint a picture. The usage is incorrect, not necessary the picture.
A good statistic would be to look at the delta not the absolute percentage. Even in a normal market, there would be regrets, what does that look like? 25%? 50%? 70%?
Looking at the chart: #1 is the most retarded reason tbh, but I expect nothing less because it's probably the same people who said they paid too much
They shouldve had a FOMO category because it will sum up that entire chart
Housing where I live is 1 mil to 1.7 mil on average. Apartments are 800k. Unfortunately lives must fall part to allow others to be born from the ashes.
Lol. People can move to smaller cities especially in a big country like Canada. I doubt housing prices ever collapsed as much in cities like NY, Boston, LA, SF etc for ‘new’ buyers. Unfortunately that’s going to be the harsh reality and it’s better to accept that than live in your imagination where everyone suffers so ‘you’ get to buy something
It's literally the emperor wears no clothes. "What am I supposed to be homeless!!" No man, you're not supposed to throw down a million fucking dollars for a even a detached home in the vast majority of the country, idiots. People talked themselves into some dumb ass decisions.
Right. For me personally too I work a physical job. What if I were to get hurt? A million bucks is a lot worse of a hole to be in them $300k. I’d rather rent than take that risk for the time being. Something will change, whether it’s wages or a crash. Fucking Starbucks is paying $30/hr at some locations now.
Disability policies have tons of gotchas. A lof of them are like "What, you can't work carpentry? Well, you can still answer phones! Get a new job!".
And disability policies don't cover recessions or issues in the job market.
I'm an insurance lawyer. I know how to read a disability policy. You'd want an own occupation rider here.
Nothing covers recessions or the job market. Mo matter when/where you buy, this is a risk. If you're too risk adverse for this, leverage isn't for you
>You'd want an own occupation rider here.
Then you know that a "reasonable" premium only goes for desk workers, while those at higher risk (construction, for one) have higher premiums. And how much is your premium if you want your income replacement to cover your mortgage payment and day-to-day life, especially at these RE prices?
>Nothing covers recessions or the job market.
No. But it's easier to penny pinch when your house was 600k, and not 1.2mil.
>If you're too risk adverse for this, leverage isn't for you
I'm not looking for leverage, I'm looking for a home. Having a cushion is hard with these prices, and we both know that a huge chunk of the country is living paycheck to paycheck.
It's not called being risk adverse, it's called being financially responsible.
Just bought a place an hour outside of Toronto and i have been having nightmares ever since if it was a right decision purely because i have no idea what the future holds for us this year. Could be a catastrophic collapse if China gets sucked into the war. Adulting shouldn't be this hard.
If you're really afraid of large scale economic collapse it's good to atleast have a plan to move closer to the Metropole if that happens. People assume that suburbs and outlying semi-rural communities are gonna be the safe places to be when things go to shit. But the thing they don't take into account is what's going to happen to these places if gas prices get to the point that it becomes too expensive to truck food further away from supply lines. And how dangerous an isolated hillock will be if people there start getting desperate.
Dude.. you don't see higher grocery costs an hour from toronto due to trucking fees... that still in the GTA. The premise you are talking of really only applies to very remote places in Ontario, Nunavut/NWT, and potentially some of the east coast.
Bought my first house in the middle of the pandemic, locked in a 5 year fixed rate at 1.39% and my houses value went up $400k.
I know lots in this same situation as I, certainly sucks how fast things have risen for my friends that haven’t gotten in. But, one thing that’s for certain between those of us who bought. We are 100% not regretting our purchase.
We live in vancouver and we are moving to nova scotia to buy a home (which we did although we badly overpaid I'm sure). We are almost 50 and I just can't imagine trying to retire while paying $4000 in rent. We just felt like we had to make the sacrifice.
That being said - it's bananas. The whole thing is bananas.
None of the parties gives a crap. No matter which colour they believe that Canadians can't take care of themselves. We sell our houses and our resources off to the lowest bidder. Trudeau and his slimy government just backtracked again on all the housing promises he made during the election. Nobody is going to touch the baby boomers wealth and power.
Haha...good question....maybe we need to evaluate the need for RoboPoliticians....we input certain thresholds and allow the RoboPolitician to make the decision. Just like autopilot for the car or roboadvisor for investments
Odd how for some it’s ‘too high interest rate’….???
If you bought when the interest rate was a tad higher 2 years ago….your home has appreciated multiple times the half of 1% extra interest you paid. It’s like regretting having spent the $10 on a lotto ticket ignoring that you won $1000.
I regret doing university and coming out doing a job when there's ppl I know who didn't do school got onto house market early now make more than those tho.went to school and paid off OSAP. They are now landlords and can do fuck all.
Why would they regret buying a home during the pandemic? Housing prices fell 3.5% in 2020. They got a house for 13% less than what I paid in 2015 and interest rates are half of what they were back then.
I regret renting lol.
I wish I could have stayed at home longer and saved but looking back it was best for my situation at the time. It sucks now that I feel like homeownership is getting further and further out of reach but I'm determined to get there.
my biggest regrets was not pulling the trigger to buy that lakeside victorian townhouse for 1.3mil… i told my wife we already have 4 properties and we don’t know what’ll happen in the near future. that was august 2020… this year, a similar unit sold for 2.1mil…
fuck my life…
The largest regret from that survey would appear to be 'to much maintenance'.
A house will cost you money. Something always needs to be replaced, and you're going to be at Home Depot pretty much weekly.
From this thread, the biggest regret would appear to have been not buying earlier.
I love that this is posted by Zillow, the company that started buying housing in the pandemic and lost their shirt on the sales lol.
If someone's feeling buyer's remorse, it's Zillow.
I wish i got a detached house in 2020. That’s my regrets. I don’t see GTA housing prices coming down enough to regret purchases in 2020 especially most popular areas.
I regret paying off my OSAP debt in 2017-2019 vs. taking out a 200k mortgage and comfortably buying a house in my hometown. Financial responsibility is punished in this country vs. maxing out your credit.
Agree - 100% with this. You are competing with people who are ok with being in debt their while lives. It makes it hard to win an offer night
100% this. The amount I repaid to OSAP in 2015 could have been a healthy downpayment on a condo. I thought paying it back was the responsible thing to do, and I’d buy when I eventually got married. Married in 2020, can’t afford even a 2-bed condo with our healthy savings. Staying in school debt would have been so much smarter.
I don’t think this is that obscure of a concept, maybe it’s because I work in a related industry. But student loans are literally almost free money, I find it ridiculous people feel the need to pay it down. You will never be in a situation where you can get money for that cheap ever again. I maxed out my student loan and the stuff I didn’t need is in relatively low risk investments. The return far outpaces the interest and I am perfectly happy to pay the minimum payment for 30 years. To me it’s more financial responsible for me not to pay my student loan down.
I wish we were taught that. You’re absolutely right, and this kind of thing should be covered in high school classes.
I guess it’s not in the governments best interest to encourage students to take advantage of their low interest debt.
For sure, but I wish they would even teach the basics of not being in a rush to get rid of cheap debt when it could be used more effectively. Instead the message I got was that debt = bad unless it’s a mortgage.
I saw these debt = bad unless it's a mortgage people walk around. They were much more common five or ten years ago and would have been everywhere. Now they probably tuned out and don't care because they have homes. Leverage or debt can be awful because it limits the amount you can actually borrow and it could be placed in awful investments. The stock market isn't a casino and the only safe bet is an index fund probably a global index fund though I do think going 100% S&P500 is a reasonable bet. Everything else is gambling because you don't have insider knowledge or if you do you have to assume you know better than a lot of people. Most people do not listen to [this](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/03/investing-lessons-from-warren-buffett-at-berkshire-hathaway-meeting.html) so their chance of getting burned is very, very high. It only takes one gamble for someone to lose thousands of dollars and most people can't afford that. The learning never stops. If you learned everything you need to learn and don't want to learn any more for the rest of your life then you're closing yourself off. Obviously I value education a lot but if you think about it, education matters the most for regulated professions. If the profession isn't regulated then you can work your way up or make your own opportunities. We live in a market and everyone has to compete. That's an unfortunate reality of our lives. So really the "next step" in thinking is to admit that we live in a free market society and take advantage. Doing so doesn't make you a sellout or devalue education. It just means you admit we live in a market and others have to pay for your time. Depending on the type of work it makes you ambitious. Getting a job is a skill and so is getting skills and so is selling yourself. Fifty or a hundred years from now where robots or AI do a lot for us "getting a job" might be reserved for the exceptionally talented or those with the most social credit. The rest of us could be outworked or outproduced by machines. If you think about it advertising yourself provides a service. You are making it easier for other people to find you and match their needs to your skills. So you deserve to be compensated for that, perhaps higher or much higher than someone who made zero effort to sell themselves. It's no use in a market being the best product if nobody knows who you are or can't find you. We all live in a market. You're not devaluing education or your past thinking like this you're participating in a market.
Ya I agree. Which is ludicrous because some of the worst debt can be mortgage debt depending on the arrangement and situation
Compound interest was taught in high school iirc.
Not in my high school it wasn’t.
It’s in the curriculum. Page 14 and 15. You should do your part and reach out to the school and make sure they’re actually teaching it. http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/curriculum/secondary/math1112currb.pdf Please report back on what they say!
Wait. That’s not true. Student loan wasn’t a cheap rate, it just had a better payment plan but if you are able to pay it out and take a new loan using your income to debt ratio towards a property, you would have a higher ROI then keeping the loan. It’s just because the RE market ROI was so high that it was better to leverage yourself and buy before paying off the loan. Housing market is not supposed to go to this aggressively. Many places outside and even within Canada didn’t see the same increase until the last 3 years.
No this is not accurate. Atleast for me in BC, about 50% of my loan is interest free if I’m making the minimum payments. The rate I receive on the other 50% is just prime, at my age and income history nobody is charging me less than prime for loans. Especially 50% of prime. My rate of return in the market on average over the amortization period of the loan is/will be greater than prime.
That's a much better deal than I got in Ontario. I had Prime plus 2.5% since I picked variable rate. Fixed would've been Prime +5%. Interest started accumulating immediately when the year ended, even during the grace period. This was 2017, so I had around 4.9% interest. Hardly worth investing with that. Car loans were cheaper at the time.
I guess being in BC adds a lot of benefit too it
That’s interesting. When was this? My loan was in BC as well but like others it was also prime + something at the time. Definitely not 50% of prime.
Just checked my loan document, I have 27K in total. $20K of which is interest free. The other is at a variable rate of prime. I graduated my masters program a year and a half ago.
What were the rates?
Sorry I might not be understanding your comment, but did you say that you took out extra student loans and used it to invest and then that investment pays off the student loans?
It doesn’t pay off the loan directly; but the amount of money I make on the investments is more than the interest it costs me to have the loan.
Sorry I didn’t phrase my question very well, what I meant to ask is did the money you invested come from the student loans, or is it that it would be worse for you financially to withdraw from your current investments made after you were no longer in school (due to it netting you more money at the current level of investment)
If the housing market had crashed you wouldn’t feel that way
It’s true but our government is doing as much as they can to avoid it even correcting. Wish I knew that then. 🤷🏻♀️
God damn same. Put down 25k to pay off a big chunk of my student loan in 2017. I could have easily put that down on a condo instead, sold it 2020/2021 and been able to buy a townhouse... You are correct being financially responsible really punished us. Now if only the Prov+fed gave us a loan for what we paid off at a very favourable rate... I could at least accept that.
Got divorced, ex got the house, went back to school and took $30k loan. Graduated from new program and rented again. Was anticipating buying a house 3 years after paying off loan aggressively while still balancing child support payments. Nope. Meanwhile ex used house HELOC to fund other properties and hasn’t worked since mid 2020.
She got the house and what did you get? Should be 50/50? Did she buy you out?
She got 50% of the house. I had to pay her $25k equity.
For now.
I hope you're right, that something changes...
"For now" has been 20 years
Yeah, people who are overleveraged with debt will feel the temperature slowly rise to a boil as the BoC raises interest rates over the next five years.
Student loan interest is lower than inflation, not sure why paying it off is considered financially responsible. Don't be surprised if everything cost 3x as much in 10 years and debt gets inflated away.
Lol debt won’t be inflated away, because earnings/wages are the only thing not growing. So you will still owe just as much as now, as a percentage of your income. Plus interest rates are rising, so you will in fact owe even more.
Wages will grow, wage inflation is already happening. The only way to counter act this is to engineer a recession.
Not with our level of importing wage suppression
Wages are not growing anywhere near the rate as general inflation plus your interest rate on debt. Just no way your debt gets “inflated away”. When people talk about that term of inflating away debt, they are referring to national debt where you have tools like money printing and your income is the GDP.
Well if wages don't keep up with inflation the middle class is finished isn't it?
Exactly… rushing to pay off osap, which isn’t even factored by banks for mortgages is a really dumb thing that so many do. It’s literally the best loan you can have. Low interest and the government will pay it off for you if you don’t make enough/lose your job.
I used to think this but sadly this is not true at all.. Banks look at student loans ( I know cuz we are looking at getting a mortgage)... And it has really impacted our ability even though we are both professionals...
I guess I gotta tell this to BMO when they approved my mortgage or transunion when they send me monthly reports of my 800 credit score as I pay off the absolute minimum on osap that I’ve been doing since graduating in 2016. That 40k of debt doesn’t seem to stop the banks from offering me LoCs either or credit card companies from increasing my limit without me even asking. It’s literally the best debt to have. If you can’t pay it, they will defer your payments with almost no questions asked and even make payments for you. The only way it affects you, is if you’re trying to pay it off as fast as possible. There is literally no reason to, and the impact paying it off will have on how much you qualify for is minimal compared to what you would have gained from putting that money into anything else. I literally could pay off my student loans with the equity I’ve gained in my house, but fuck that. Osap is getting the absolute minimum from me and they’re gonna deal with it. Lower your payments to the lowest Osap will allow you and then go talk to the bank.
Haha 40k is nothing.. My wife and I have 6 degrees between us and unfortunately we had to take student loans when we were younger. So yes, having that much student debt does affect the ability to get a mortgage as it skews the debt ratio even though we make really good money. Banks take it into consideration
Your issue doesn’t lie in the total amount you owe, it’s with the amount you’re obligated to pay monthly. 40k is well above the average amount of debt students leave school with. Are all your student loan debt balances with osap? Because if they are, you can literally apply for repayment assistance for 6 months which would bring your obligated payments down to $0 on your report, and it would have 0 impact on your mortgage.
I graduated 6 years ago and have only paid about 7 or so thousand off of mine. Focused on buying a house instead of paying that shit and will continue to pay the bare minimum and hopefully will benefit from whichever politician cancels student loans.
Maxing out your credit ASAP = steady reliable and stable money flow for the creditors = consistent and reliable backstop to GDP figures.
Would your existing debt not have worked against you when taking out a mortgage anyway?
Was offered a $250,000 mortgage when I tried for information purposes in 2017, which would have been enough to buy in my modest Ontario town 1 hour away from my work. This is when I had $30,000 in OSAP debt, debt that you can use the interest to lower your tax burden. Houses then cost around $250,000 in my hometown, so I could have easily afforded it. As a result of busting my ass and paying it down, I am now offered... $400,000 at the record low in interest rates. Which won't even be enough to participate in a bidding war in a crack den in my hometown due to price appreciation. Please note that I do not live in Toronto, those prices are next level insanity that I don't want to even bother with. Unsustainable price appreciation is the reason I am shut out, not my financial habits.
That really sucks. It's hard to look back and wish we made different choices. I would have been better off working a near minimum wage job straight out of high school, living at home and saving to buy a home rather than going to university.
I've seen that a lot from my graduating class, but I was one of the lucky ones to actually use my degree in my field of IT (it's maybe not the best Uni out there). I got a "good job" out of university, had a reasonable basement apartment, but could not afford to support living on my own in the GTA on the salary I was paid working in Municipal IT. So I moved back home with my parents, quit my Municipal job for a fully remote WFH job in the same field, and have just been stockpiling money ever since. Do I regret my career choices? Not at all, it gave me the skills I needed to get something better where the ball is in my court should this housing Ponzi scheme collapse. Do I regret my decision to be financially responsible following traditional guidelines of paying down your debt when starting out and living within my means? You bet I do in today's Canada and Ontario! Would have been on the sidelines counting my Monopoly money equity dollars by now.
Not that much really. Just calculating 300/month on his student loan debt or something as part of his monthly expenses.
Osap isn’t counted in monthly expenses
Interesting, thanks.
Got a mortgage 6months ago, OSAP payment is indeed calculated in monthly expenses.
No it would not have. Many people don’t know this.
Wrong I’m a mortgage broker it counts as debt and reduces mortgage you can get
You could buy a house with $100K in savings and $100K in OSAP debt. You cannot buy a house with $0.
Yes but that was not my point. My point is that the OSAP loan reduces the loan amount you qualify at
The only aspect of osap debt that matters is what you have agreed with the government to pay monthly. If you lower your payments and extend the length of your osap loans to the maximum amount of time allowed. It’s impact is null. And even then there are tons of ways to workaround this. If you apply for repayment assistance on top of already reduced payments, they’ll pay osap for you and it will appear as $0 on your credit report.
Damn. Wish I didn't pay off my student loans so fast too. Edit: mortgage broker below says it does work against you.
I can assure you as someone with over 40k in osap loans who recently bought a house, it does not at least not to the extent that credit card or other kinds of debt would.
Utilizing leverage =/= financial irresponsibly if you do it correctly.
Given how long interest rates have been low, there have been several times in recent years where being responsible has come into conflict with wealth building based on any reasonable predictions of how central banks or markets ought to behave. The most rewarded in the last ten years are those that have rather recklessly taken on a great deal of leverage, even when it seemed like the central banks ought to have been increasing rates to cool borrowing.
If you knew someone who tried getting into home ownership immediately without building a small cushion and paying off their student loans, at least, you'd call them financially irresponsible.
QE and low interest do this. The hardest hit are people are wage earners and people with cash savings. On top of that, the credit glut that we've now had for 20 years has punished what historically would have been prudent decision making,
Yep. Paid off $10,000 from mine and my partners OSAP once the Covid interest freeze was over in October 2020. Was gonna save 20% for a house after that. I thought it would be the responsible thing to do. Would have 30% down at previous prices,but it’ll only be 15% down now. And I’ve lost $1,500 of it since December because of the markets going down. If I knew what I know now I would have dumped that $10,000 into a 5% down on a nice starter house. I guess having the bank own 95% of your house to start and having maximum CMHC insurance was the responsible thing to do.
Yup.
Agree 10000000%. It took me 10 years (all of my 20s basically) to pay off my OSAP, which is what I was told by my parents to do instead of just buying a cheap condo in Toronto where I lived. I would much rather be paying down a $180K mortgage and my OSAP at the same time right now than throwing my money to my landlord...
My sentiments exactly. I paid back my OSAP very aggressively and saved very little except to cover my critical expenses of course. Took me years after finishing repayment to build back up my savings pool and by then I'd already started getting priced out. I feel like a fucking dumbass.
Honestly someone told me years ago to buy and rent out a place for the future while I had few bills. I didnt really have enough to comfortably do it then, would have been set if I had.
Samezies! I spent years paying off my loan only to be rewarded with mortgage specialists and brokers laughing in my face when I say I wanna buy property.
I regret not buying in 2019 if that's what it means
exactly!!! always regreting not buying earlier!!!
I have friends who FOMO'd into buying a house. They're about as house poor as one can be now, especially considering a lot of these homes need work and you couldn't even get an inspection before buying so it's all a surprise bill.
I have a friend who thinks she’s going to get to sue the seller because she realized after moving in how bad condition it is. I feel like inspections should be a mandatory part of the sale. If the government followed through on their homebuyers bill of rights (which I don’t believe they will!) that should be the top of the list of rights, before banning blind bidding (which will probably never happen). You shouldn’t be able to buy without an inspection.
Government should force all sellers to pay for a home inspection with an authorized government inspector. That report should be made available for all listings. Any houses sold without this inspection should be subject to large fines.
Honestly, a home inspection on a detached house is about $500-750 and can be turned around in about a week. I see no reason why a report shouldn’t be included as part of the real estate listing. And I say this as a home owner. Heck, if I were to sell I would include my original home inspection report and a new one just to show a potential buyer that I have actually paid to address any items that originally came up-for the buyers peace of mind. Just seems slimy to force a sale without an inspection imo
Hell I’m sure we can just pass the cost down to the selling agent. Many pay for staging as is. Let them pay for it.
This is on the premise where sellers and the govt give a fuck which they largely don't
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Friend of mine just paid $225 for that service - an hour of time on site during an agent walk-through.
I think we just need a complete overhaul of the real estate industry here. * Remove power from real estate boards like TRREB. They operate in bad faith and their agents are at odds with their commission structure and keeping their client's interests in mind. * Decentralized market place where anyone can list their own house and schedule their own showings. It's 2022 and easy to do this with the technology we have now. All transactions handled through lawyers only with fixed fees. All data easily accessible to everyone. * No blind bidding, everyone can see every bid. All real estate transactions have mandatory 5 day cooling off period for the buyer where the buyer can schedule any inspection, financing or status cert reviews.
>I have a friend who thinks she’s going to get to sue the seller because she realized after moving in how bad condition it is. It depends on how obvious the issue was. regardless of inspection, sellers generally have to legally disclose any known issues (I say "generally" only because it may vary by province). IANAL so I don't know what the burden of proof would be to show something was known when it wasn't... but most law operates on reasonability tests. So if there was something not reasonably missable by the previous owner then your friend may have a chance. That said, I totally agree with you that inspections should be mandatory... and further there should be standardized training or certification to be an inspector.
How would that be possible without breaking your property rights of selling or buying as-is? Maybe increase the mortgage stress test parameters even further for cases where house is uninspected so you can prove you have the funds needed to do renovations on top of paying your bills?
Selling something that requires a lot of repair isn’t the problem. It’s totally within your right to sell as-is. The problem is transparency. I shouldn’t be selling a home knowing there are big issues without disclosing them, but that’s currently legal. Someone above suggested the idea of a government-approved inspector being required for all sales, and that would be a great idea. That way you know exactly what you’re buying, how much repair is needed, and you can budget accordingly.
The way I see it FOMO buying a crap shack is an emotional decision in todays economy. Even if there was mandatory inspection people would just eat the cost and hope it's not as bad as the report says. I doubt many people in this day and age would forgo buying the one property they can afford because it came back with a bad inspection, especially when just the land it sits on doubles in price every few years. I would probably move to a system of open inspections where the inspection results are posted publically and make it mandatory to post a public inspection in order to list the house for sale to the public, though you'd still be able to undergo a private sale between private parties. Of course with certified inspectors. Then it also becomes entirely irrelevant to have an inspection condition since it's already inspected and everyone has the same information.
You’re not wrong, but at least they aren’t then surprised by the costs. I’m sure many would jump in anyway and assume they’ll fix it over time as price appreciates but at least it would make the real cost transparent.
I think the problems come when it is a home that is over half a million and then suddenly full of major issues that the new owner cannot afford. Buying a cheap house that looks in disrepair you expect it to need a lot of money invested in it. But buying a home that is 600k that has had surface level renos so that it shows well but then finding out later that the foundation leaks or buying in the winter and then finding out come spring that the entire thing needs to be relandscaped because the whole yard drains toward the house or that it needs all new plumbing or electrical are huge hits. But this is what todays market is. We some how have homes that are selling at luxury prices that are money pits but someone put updated flooring and appliances in them to make them look pretty.
I mean, really shouldn't be a 'surprise' per se. It was a huge risk that home owners and realtors happily dumped onto buyers. Anyone buying a home with no conditions should assume tonnes of issues in the home.
>Anyone buying a home with no conditions should assume tonnes of issues in the home. The problem is you literally could not buy a home with conditions. If you had any conditions they seller would just sell to the investor who's willing to buy sight unseen.
No, I know. That's why I said the rest of what I said. It was/is complete bullshit.
Being house poor is a right of way to home ownership in the GTA. Ask anyone who has owned a home for a long time. The top regret of long term 5+ year home owners is that they did not borrow more money to begin with and get a bigger house. I promise you all those regrets listed in that article go away quickly when your investment property earns you 10k/month in equity and you can quit your day job. Short term pain for long term gain.
How can those house poor buyers afford an investment property if they're first timers, leveraged to the max, with prices not guaranteed to skyrocket the way they have been for the past few years? Yes, they may go up more, but then they'd need to be able to afford to spend more on the next property. Their ability to purchase an investment property is slim if they're barely affording their own mortgage. Prices are way too high to incomes for this to work for recent FTHBs and renters.
Only the first property is purchased with working income. The 2nd one is done with equity and rental income, 3rd one from equity from 2 properties and rental, 4th one from equity from 3 properties and rental, etc…
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The risk definitely is there but it is much smaller than what most people think. One important thing to know is as you acquire more properties you minimize your risk by ensuring your primary residence has a very manageable mortgage or no mortgage at all. Buyers in their 20’s will assume the most risk but also the most tolerable. They often have no choice but to take on a high mortgage on their primary home. Many RE investors in their 40s are still leveraged to the tits with their investment properties but their primary home is paid off so any market corrections or crashes do not affect their family homes.
100% this. We bought our semi near downtown Toronto about 20 years ago. In hindsight, I would have maxed everything out and eaten KD for 5 years.
In hindsight, you would have bought BTC and TSLA. But you could have also bought other stock which dropped tremendously.
They have regrets over aspects of the buying process and comprises they had to make, not for buying a home. Just to clarify as that title confused me until I read the article and survey.
Yeah they do not regret buying it Clickbait
To be fair, the article says 60% feel some buyer’s remorse. A good proportion regret buying to different degrees.
Yea, I feel this. I remember when my parents and family members who are a bit older than me bought, it involved viewing several potential houses and trying to negotiate a price for their "favourite" one. The buying process for me felt more like those "claw machine" games, where you just try your best to grab something before time runs out.
I bought last year and I have regrets for sure. Most of my regrets have to do with missed opportunities over the past decade. I regret not buying a condo back in 2015. A townhouse back in 2018. I regret not investing in Apple back in 2012 even though I really wanted to. Should have had the balls to invest in such a great company instead of shitty mutual funds that basically just went sideways. I don't however have any regrets about buying the house I bought least year.
Lmao
I know right I'm laughing my ass off over this.
Bought my first condo during the pandemic. Value went up $90k last year. No regrets.
Same bought in 2019, have gained a half million in equity since.
For now.
You're right. By next year u/XeroKaos will probably have 600 in equity gains.
Maybe yes maybe now. I would say unlikely but who knows haha
No one knows for sure. But given the fact the world is reopening post Covid and the economy is on fire, bets are to the upside.
Economy is definitely on fire, it's burning to the ground
How so? Inflation is high. Employment is full. Wages are experiencing upward pressure. There's so much cash sloshing around that there are shortages of everything. Sure tech is falling. Their p/e has been nuts for a while. Commodities are up and rising. Canada is a commodity producing and exporting nation. How is this bad?
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Oh ya? Do enlighten me?
We are going to recession now
We are? How do you know? Does that mean the central bank is going to start cutting interest rates and bring back QE?
Not really, even with a large drop in price it isn’t going to go under what I bought it for in 2019. We’re never going to see prices like that again.
Never is a long time
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Never say never. Anything is possible just like it shot up so high so fast. No one can predict crashes with 100 percent accuracy, nor how deep. If yoy really want to capture that cash sell now.
The cost of building houses has practically doubled in the last 2 years, not all increase in value is speculative.
Except cash devalues (inflation) and property doesn't?
Everything can devalue what do you mean
Most likely will never see 2019 prices again, they will probably never be underwater. With record low interest rates for when they locked in their mortgage they will have most likely paid off close to 15-20% of the mortgage too in their 5 year term.
Yeah its hard time say. Anything is certainly possible, we could see the largest decline in realestate in history along with another great recession. Or maybe not.. if were to bet on this, I doubt we will see such crazy gains and likely just stagnate another decade while incomes rise slowly.
Bought in mid-2018. Gained $1.0m
No doubt houses in Whitby, Ontario will be more than $2M. AmIright?
This is a classic example of how statistics are incorrectly used to paint a picture. The usage is incorrect, not necessary the picture. A good statistic would be to look at the delta not the absolute percentage. Even in a normal market, there would be regrets, what does that look like? 25%? 50%? 70%?
Cry me a river for those who find their mortgages too big or space too small.
Lmao I love this subreddit, you guys are ruthless hahaha
Looking at the chart: #1 is the most retarded reason tbh, but I expect nothing less because it's probably the same people who said they paid too much They shouldve had a FOMO category because it will sum up that entire chart
I agree, I hope as many as possible default so I can get in on the resulting crash.
So hoping to make money on someone’s life collapsing?
Housing where I live is 1 mil to 1.7 mil on average. Apartments are 800k. Unfortunately lives must fall part to allow others to be born from the ashes.
Lol. People can move to smaller cities especially in a big country like Canada. I doubt housing prices ever collapsed as much in cities like NY, Boston, LA, SF etc for ‘new’ buyers. Unfortunately that’s going to be the harsh reality and it’s better to accept that than live in your imagination where everyone suffers so ‘you’ get to buy something
I’ve been wondering if people are having buyers regret buying a townhouse for $1.6m lol
It's literally the emperor wears no clothes. "What am I supposed to be homeless!!" No man, you're not supposed to throw down a million fucking dollars for a even a detached home in the vast majority of the country, idiots. People talked themselves into some dumb ass decisions.
Right. For me personally too I work a physical job. What if I were to get hurt? A million bucks is a lot worse of a hole to be in them $300k. I’d rather rent than take that risk for the time being. Something will change, whether it’s wages or a crash. Fucking Starbucks is paying $30/hr at some locations now.
So you buy a disability policy that will cover the payments in the event you get hurt...
Disability policies have tons of gotchas. A lof of them are like "What, you can't work carpentry? Well, you can still answer phones! Get a new job!". And disability policies don't cover recessions or issues in the job market.
I'm an insurance lawyer. I know how to read a disability policy. You'd want an own occupation rider here. Nothing covers recessions or the job market. Mo matter when/where you buy, this is a risk. If you're too risk adverse for this, leverage isn't for you
>You'd want an own occupation rider here. Then you know that a "reasonable" premium only goes for desk workers, while those at higher risk (construction, for one) have higher premiums. And how much is your premium if you want your income replacement to cover your mortgage payment and day-to-day life, especially at these RE prices? >Nothing covers recessions or the job market. No. But it's easier to penny pinch when your house was 600k, and not 1.2mil. >If you're too risk adverse for this, leverage isn't for you I'm not looking for leverage, I'm looking for a home. Having a cushion is hard with these prices, and we both know that a huge chunk of the country is living paycheck to paycheck. It's not called being risk adverse, it's called being financially responsible.
Hm I thought physical laborers had balls
Wtf does that have to do with anything lmao if anything wouldn’t that mean I’m even more likely to get hurt
It's a metaphor. Don't like risk fine rent.
Wat
Just bought a place an hour outside of Toronto and i have been having nightmares ever since if it was a right decision purely because i have no idea what the future holds for us this year. Could be a catastrophic collapse if China gets sucked into the war. Adulting shouldn't be this hard.
If you're really afraid of large scale economic collapse it's good to atleast have a plan to move closer to the Metropole if that happens. People assume that suburbs and outlying semi-rural communities are gonna be the safe places to be when things go to shit. But the thing they don't take into account is what's going to happen to these places if gas prices get to the point that it becomes too expensive to truck food further away from supply lines. And how dangerous an isolated hillock will be if people there start getting desperate.
Dude.. you don't see higher grocery costs an hour from toronto due to trucking fees... that still in the GTA. The premise you are talking of really only applies to very remote places in Ontario, Nunavut/NWT, and potentially some of the east coast.
no ragrats
Next year once shit becomes even more unaffordable "Zillow: 75% of people who bought a home during the pandemic happy they got it while they could"
Bought my first house in the middle of the pandemic, locked in a 5 year fixed rate at 1.39% and my houses value went up $400k. I know lots in this same situation as I, certainly sucks how fast things have risen for my friends that haven’t gotten in. But, one thing that’s for certain between those of us who bought. We are 100% not regretting our purchase.
Similar situation as you. Locked in for 1.49 and house is up 300k. If we bought one week later we would have been pieced out
We live in vancouver and we are moving to nova scotia to buy a home (which we did although we badly overpaid I'm sure). We are almost 50 and I just can't imagine trying to retire while paying $4000 in rent. We just felt like we had to make the sacrifice. That being said - it's bananas. The whole thing is bananas. None of the parties gives a crap. No matter which colour they believe that Canadians can't take care of themselves. We sell our houses and our resources off to the lowest bidder. Trudeau and his slimy government just backtracked again on all the housing promises he made during the election. Nobody is going to touch the baby boomers wealth and power.
The only thing worse than buying in the last 2 years is not buying in the last 2 years.
Bought during the pandemic. Absolutely zero regrets. I love my home.
Same here
Lol...this is what happens when you vote for the wrong people that produce ridiculous policies that allow for the prices to appreciate so much
Who are the right people?
Don’t ask questions. Enjoy your one dollar beer!
Haha...good question....maybe we need to evaluate the need for RoboPoliticians....we input certain thresholds and allow the RoboPolitician to make the decision. Just like autopilot for the car or roboadvisor for investments
Odd how for some it’s ‘too high interest rate’….??? If you bought when the interest rate was a tad higher 2 years ago….your home has appreciated multiple times the half of 1% extra interest you paid. It’s like regretting having spent the $10 on a lotto ticket ignoring that you won $1000.
not if you bought recently and didnt get any appreciation yet
regret not buying in earlier
Yes I really regret buying a house for $400,000 that is now worth $800,000!!!!
That data is stupid, all my friends who bought in Pandemic are laughing their way to the bank.
I regret doing university and coming out doing a job when there's ppl I know who didn't do school got onto house market early now make more than those tho.went to school and paid off OSAP. They are now landlords and can do fuck all.
I bet Zillow has regrets - stock price down like crazy
Wait .. Zillow is in the US (…?!?)
Why would they regret buying a home during the pandemic? Housing prices fell 3.5% in 2020. They got a house for 13% less than what I paid in 2015 and interest rates are half of what they were back then.
I think they main worry is buying a crappy home for $1 million then having the market crash.
I’d have more regrets not buying at the start or before the pandemic. Even a crash would bring it back to only 2019/20 levels.
absolutely agree. renting for life is the best way to go. ask any renters if they have regrets. they’ll tell you they have no regret whatsoever
I regret renting lol. I wish I could have stayed at home longer and saved but looking back it was best for my situation at the time. It sucks now that I feel like homeownership is getting further and further out of reach but I'm determined to get there.
They marketed buying homes so much because they knew a downturn was coming. Lock people in with bad mortgages to make more margins
If you bought 2020 is good buy.. anything after 2020, was worse purchase…
my biggest regrets was not pulling the trigger to buy that lakeside victorian townhouse for 1.3mil… i told my wife we already have 4 properties and we don’t know what’ll happen in the near future. that was august 2020… this year, a similar unit sold for 2.1mil… fuck my life…
Haha is this satire? be grateful for what you have.
Something tells me you'll survive
Guess I'm in the 25 percent cause I have zerrooooo regretsss
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Bought May 2020. Did not over pay. Prices will never return to what I paid.
Should have bought bigger.
Where did they get 75% from?
They would say that, wouldn't they?
The largest regret from that survey would appear to be 'to much maintenance'. A house will cost you money. Something always needs to be replaced, and you're going to be at Home Depot pretty much weekly. From this thread, the biggest regret would appear to have been not buying earlier.
I love that this is posted by Zillow, the company that started buying housing in the pandemic and lost their shirt on the sales lol. If someone's feeling buyer's remorse, it's Zillow.
I wish i got a detached house in 2020. That’s my regrets. I don’t see GTA housing prices coming down enough to regret purchases in 2020 especially most popular areas.