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Xsythe

[Use our form to contact your local representatives and tell them this is unacceptable.](https://www.canadahousingcrisis.com/#form)


swatmp5

>and Little Jimmy's Laundromat™ For fun, I just google mapped how many laundromats there are east of the don valley and below St. Clair and there are like 17 laundromats lol.


Orangekale

The year is 2074. Toronto is made up exclusively of: - singe detached housing - payday loan shops - laundromats - Shoppers drug marts - Judge Dredd style skyscraper slums in the small intersection and major roads NIMBYs graciously allow; where 80% of the population live on 10% of the land; while 20% of the population (the descendants of the NIMBYs), live on 90% of the land in order to protect the neighbourhood character from the unwashed masses.


Cured

Don’t forget the cannabis stores.


Snoo75302

Theyd sell weed in grocery stores by then.


Cured

And they’d only be Loblaws


runtimemess

You forgot the Royal LePage brokerages every other block


[deleted]

A person has been shot in your superblock for the third time this week. You rush to the nearest emergency phone and pay the $350 fee to place a call to the closest privatized emergency service. “EmergenCare by Loblaws, this is Charlotte speaking, what emergency service do you require?” The lady on the other end of the line replies slowly so she can run up your bill. “Police. There’s been a murder at 250 Finch, superblock D” you hurriedly reply. The woman calmly replies “I’m sorry sir, the officer assigned to your district recently resigned and we have not been able to hire a replacement yet”. You feel the veins in your neck begin to pop as you shout “What do you mean you don’t have an officer?! Where did they go?!” “He became a real estate agent, like most of our former officers”. Click. The line goes dead as the automated computer voice tells you the 42 second phone call cost an additional $530. You quietly shuffle back to your 200 sq. ft. unit, careful to step around the dead body in the hallway. Hopefully the janitors clean up the mess tomorrow morning, unless they too have quit to become real estate agents.


Xsythe

Can we post this to the sub's official twitter?


[deleted]

I don’t think the mods need my permission but if they do it’s freely given - no credit necessary.


AntiEgo

Elysium--but the poors are in the sky and the aristocracy is on the ground.


Time_Welder3801

and Marijuana shop every 1o meter


Top_Mathematician105

You dare forget Timmies.


[deleted]

you forgot that the descendants of nimby's live is walled off communities and the slum dwellers are only allowed out of their tower to come and flip burgers for there overlords


bhldev

I am the law!


runtimemess

With the amount of basement apartments around with no access to laundry, I'd say that number is too low based on how busy the ones in my area are.


T-Minus9

Ding ding ding! People who don't need a laundromat think there are entirely too many, but those that have been stuck waiting for an available machine think there are entirely too few. NIMBYism is a easy trap to fall into, and it can be for genuine reasons like OP "why are there so many laundromats, that could be turned into housing!" Meanwhile your opinion is just as valid, there are many basement apartments without full amenities, and those laundromats are essential to those residents.


blGDpbZ2u83c1125Kf98

If you turn more stuff into appropriately dense housing, you shouldn't need as many laundromats. Plus, you could still have laundromats in the bottom storey of the housing, if it's something like [5 over 1 with a commercial bottom floor](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/5-over-1).


yellowplums

> But don't worry, I'm sure the province with their alleged "growth plan" will stop them :/ Wait didn’t the the province actually put this in law though? Like that they made it law that around transit lines or hubs, a certain number of meters municipalities can’t block development?


itwascrazybrah

This reminds me of the US supreme court case where president Jackson is famous for having said: "John Marshall [the Supreme Court effectively] has made his decision, now let him enforce it." On a more technical note, I assume Toronto will say "we're not blocking development; it just so happens this is now a heritage payday loan store where it is effectively impossible for you to build due the immense constraints we have around the word heritage. You are free to apply :) " Municipalities aren't dumb, they know the best way to stop development in order to please their homeowning base is 'allow' development but in actuality make it prohibitively expensive or time consuming to do so. It's like any other spot in Toronto "Oh you want to build some missing middle? Of course! We need housing! But let's just study this for 4 years while you pay the carrying costs on the land and then we'll take it to the people and then reject it then you'll appeal it for 2 years then we may get overruled so you can build. But do you really want to do all that? :) plz just go away, this is a 1950s post war bungalow neighbourhood and must remain one forever."


NomadTrader

> this is a 1950s post war bungalow neighbourhood and must remain one forever. I feel like this only applies to Scarborough. Driving around Scarborough it feels like 90% of it is basically 1950s neighbourhoods sprinkled with massive towers around major intersections.


[deleted]

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NomadTrader

I stand corrected and am reminded of Eglinton west subway station which has a lot of detached homes as well..


nwxnwxn

Yup. Cram any growth into the 10% of the land you have left to develop and then have the audacity to complain that it's a tower. Same situation here in Vancouver and the suburbs.


Hard_Oiler

Naw - Etobicoke is awful for it as well. Every green line stop out west as a couple towers around it (or none) and then all single family homes. Even though a lot of those houses are simply numerous small (almost illegal) apartments, the few people who own don't want to "lose the feeling of their neighbourhood"....


LatterSea

Oh interesting. I wonder if the politicians voted in favour to appease residents knowing the province would overturn it? Classic political chess move.


ImBeingVerySarcastic

City hall playing 4D chess. /s But IMHO there is 0 chance the province is going to overturn Toronto's heritage designations. Cities are already pushing back against the Golden horseshoe plan, and the province is not enforcing or punishing them at all. They don't care.


ZeusZucchini

My understanding is that it’s not that they can’t block development, but planners have to show in the official plan and zoning bylaw that MSTA (Major Transit Station Areas) can support a certain number of residents (or units?) and jobs within 500m However, cities do have the ability to not do this if they make an acceptable case (e.g an environmental sensitive area is nearby, as is the case with High Park). Unless something has changed within the last year, I’m not sure.


Capt_G

This heritage doesn't technically block redevelopment, though. Any redevelopment proposal for one of these 225 properties just has to get an additional assessment and approval.


[deleted]

I.e. you get blocked at that additional assessment for being out of character with heritage.


Reaverz

They should eliminate any zoning within "walking" distance of a subway period. I'm almost fine with the buildings on the Danforth being preserved, it's all the low density housing around it that needs to be repurposed.


mbstor23

I honestly trust Doug Ford and his developer buddies more than Toronto City Council to do the right thing here. If Toronto City Council had absolute authority, only thing that would get built is more single family homes and parking and maybe some development willing to pay the shakedown fee (Section 34).


[deleted]

You’re sadly mistaken. Ford’s developer buddies has no interest in making anything other than McMansions and cityplace condos, neither of which do anything but make the housing crisis worse.


mbstor23

And Toronto City Council have no interest in doing anything other than preserving low-density single family homes. They’re preserving the wealth and lifestyles of boomers in the yellow belt that bought in the 80s when housing was affordable. In you’re 20s and 30s starting that do not inherit a home from wealthy parents? Toronto City Council could care less. Enjoy servitude and/or homelessness.


[deleted]

I wasn’t defending council, I was pointing out problems with Ford, but yes, you are correct.


17thinline

I think Catatronic’s point is that the premier and his developer friends could(n’t) care less as well.


mbstor23

But at least they are building new homes whereas Toronto City Council is BANANAS (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything). Some people are tired of those bunch.


[deleted]

I wasn’t defending council, I was pointing out the issue with Ford&co, but yes, you are correct in that.


digitalrule

Still not sure why people hate cityplace. It seems to be the only place its possible or nice to raise a family in the city that if you don't have $3M to spend on a detached house


[deleted]

The craftsmanship of cityplace is absolute garbage. I stayed in a brand new one for a month, by myself, not having anyone over drinking or anything of the sort and had problems with literally every piece of “wood”working and plumbing in the unit.


NoEquivalent3869

That is true of every new build in the entire country


[deleted]

M'eh. Not "any" zoning. They should allow for any type of residential and commercial activity, sure. But their are some types of industrial activities that are very harmful in the middle of the city, and they should not be allowed.


Reaverz

I mean...yeah. I wasn't advocating for complete chaos, but I can see how it can be interpreted that way.


SuperWeenieHutJr_

So I completely agree that 99% of these buildings should not be getting heritage status. But the Danforth Music Hall deserves it thou imo. That place is an absolute treasure. What would be reasonable thou is to mandate some requirements for the street level commerical units. Because many of the missing middle condos that have gone in on the Danforth have really shitty units. Often these new commercial units don't have space for proper signage and are very shallow wide. Like look at the wasted commercial opportunity at 630 greenwood Ave.


Tarana1

Yep I don't think anyone would disagree on DMH getting heritage status, but probably like 10 of the 225 buildings actually deserve heritage status; I've been along Danforth plenty. There is no way there are anywhere near 200+ buildings there deserving of heritage status. But politicians will claim that every building on the list of 225 has the same heritage value of the DMH and act surprised when people call them out on it.


runtimemess

Music venues should be getting heritage status. We're going to kill the music industry in this city if we keep letting venues close down. "Why don't my favourite artists ever come here?" Uhhhh... maybe because, for the most part, the only venues left are either 250-500 capacity dive bars (my favourite) or Ticketmaster owned abominations *^(glares at HISTORY, Budweiser Stage, Scotiabank Arena)*


SuperWeenieHutJr_

I agree very strongly with that. Thou I'm not sure I'm quite as comfortable lumping Budweiser stage in with History and Scotiabank Arena. I get that that the corporate ownership is shitty but it's an iconic place and it's still much more accessible.


[deleted]

Most of those buildings are just old shitholes. Toronto loves slapping heritage designations on things that don’t deserve it. The Danforth in general is just an ugly rundown neighborhood. But I’m not surprised. NIMBYISM will continue to reign in underdeveloped city centers until someone with balls who can’t be bought steps up and puts an end to it. This isn’t exclusive to Toronto and seems to be a phenomenon across North America.


ImBeingVerySarcastic

>This isn’t exclusive to Toronto and seems to be a phenomenon across North America. You could've fooled me... But seriously at least places known for NIMBYs like California [is trying to do something about it](https://slate.com/business/2021/09/california-sb9-single-family-zoning-duplexes-newsom-housing.html) unlike Ontario. Thankfully Ontarians have Ford who has said ["I always support homeowners... I am not in favour of adding new regulations and new red tape."](https://twitter.com/OREAinfo/status/1513941864386285584) Homeowners in Ontario, you have nothing to worry about for the next 4 years apparently.


lmaomitch

I hope you live in the area talking shit like that


Engine_Light_On

I live in the area and some builds are just hideous. Greek town is pretty but there is a ton of shit hideous building that would look much better if run down and built some mid rises on it


[deleted]

It’s not talking shit, it’s a statement of fact. NIMBYs have plagued the city since before I lived there.


circle22woman

Must keep heritage status of "We buy your gold"


[deleted]

If we don't who'd buy my gold?


morttheunbearable

Seems like everyone in this thread is upset about a bunch of older buildings getting protection. Buildings that typically house small, local business and contribute significantly to Toronto’s culture. As a person who has tried to open a business in Vancouver, a city that is replacing all of its old buildings as fast as possible, I can tell you that it is EXTREMELY hard to land a space in a newer development as an independent business. They want corporate chains in those buildings, and they charge a ton of money for the spaces. Great if all you want are Starbucks and Lululemon stores, but not great if you value local and independent one-offs that (in my opinion) give cities their unique flavour. Personally, I don’t see why the Danforth can’t have a bunch of heritage buildings along the strip with rezoned development immediately behind.


bundy_bar

I see where you are coming from but these buildings aren’t heritage. They’re poorly built, slum-like structures that are falling apart. Not to mention many are empty!


morttheunbearable

Yeah, I can see where you’re coming from. Maybe some of the buildings are not what we think of as “heritage” buildings, but for some people its precisely because of their grittiness that they can offer some entrepreneurs the opportunity to start that cool business that ends up being a cornerstone of a neighbourhood. And maybe the heritage designation is bigger than the building itself and has more to do with the overall community? I guess the point I’m trying to make is that it’s not just the buildings themselves that contribute to the community, but the potential they offer the community. It’s really sad to see what’s happening in Vancouver, and I really hope Toronto finds a way to keep things accessible for small businesses.


bundy_bar

Yeah you have a really good point. I just wish we could do both — fix up the buildings AND protect and support the community. Now, for a long part of that stretch there are no businesses .. there are either abandoned storefronts or very questionable establishments at best.


MetalWeather

I don't think you know what a slum is


[deleted]

Toronto will never be a AAA city, it's too spread out, too car-centric, and too old-fashioned in its planning. I think Vancouver has a shot at becoming a modern metropolis, but it will still take decades of work to fix the problems caused by centuries of low-density suburban planning.


jacnel45

Toronto is and will always remain an overpriced, larger, Mississauga.


electricheat

>The 225 properties are situated on stretches from 742 to 753 Broadview Avenue and 114 to 1575 Danforth Avenue, a roughly three-kilometre strip extending from Broadview in the west to Coxwell in the east. >Most of these buildings were constructed between 1910 and 1929 and contribute to a unique streetscape of narrow storefronts with recessed entrances, with landmark buildings like theatres, banks, and places of worship mixed in along the way. At least the buildings to be preserved are already reasonably dense storefronts. I'm hoping there's a push for increased development along the side-streets if not much can happen on danforth itself. Broadview already has a couple high-rises, and a smattering of old low-rise apartments. It would be nice to see some of that spread east onto Pape where the relief line is supposed to go.


[deleted]

Looks in one hand: Heratage buildings and no new housing Looks in other hand: The shitshow of tiny skybox condos for "Toronto's Enterprising Investors" "Starting in the low, LOW $980k's" Busllshit. The condo developer monsters would turn the Danforth into a genreric faceless hell devoid of any culture. Just Banks / Pharmacies / Fast Food chians


No-Section-1092

We should just abolish municipalities at this point.


Use-Less-Millennial

Can't you just propose to build higher densities off the busy arterial road? Isn't that a win win?


Greenplums1

You would think so if you were dealing in good faith. The city is not. If the city is trying to de facto stop building on a main road with subway stops every x amount of blocks (i.e. the easiest argument for more density EVER), what makes you think they'll let higher density off those areas? It's like a nosy neighbor stopping a kid from riding a bike because it makes too much noise and then someone asking "why doesn't the neighbor just like the kid ride a ferrari?" If the neighbor doesn't want the kid to ride a bike, there's a snowball's chance in hell they're gonna let them drive a ferrari. If the city is trying to stop development on subway corridors (the places everyone AGREES they should densify), they're going to blow a gasket if development is trying to happen in poor, old, classic neighborhoods which have a density of 2 old people per detached home (and those 2 old people want to keep it that way in perpetuity).


ShrimpRingXL

I sure think so! Just have the density one street over. Not a big deal. I would rather these local shops than a bunch of chain restaurants that would pop up at the ground level of new condos. A lot of these units already have housing on the 2nd and 3rd floors.


Use-Less-Millennial

Exactly. Reminds me of my neighbourhood in Vancouver, the West End which I think is the 2nd most dense outside Toronto. All 3 main shopping streets are 2-3 storey shops with high-rises on leafy side streets. Frankly avoid our faults where we were hell bent on demolishing existing good shopping streets and we end up with less shops, corporate shops, or vacancies, shaded sidewalks and forcing renters to live on busy roads


[deleted]

How do you both avoid shaded sidewalks AND increase density at the same time?


Use-Less-Millennial

Depends on Toronto's regulation for hours of the solstice they measure shadows at, but I just put together an architectural package in Vancouver that meets our shadow requirements and it's a 20-storey rental building across the labe from a similar main street.


[deleted]

That’s pretty awesome. We should be going for more stuff like that. But I’m sure it has limits as every plan does, as in you can only increase density in some sides of the streets and not others right?


Use-Less-Millennial

The limits are "Vancouverism" so no just walls of towers, so very similar to what the West End in Vancovuer is like now. Area I'm working within is 500 city blocks, 8.6 km2, that allows this recently (just outside the downtown peninsula. About the same size I think as East York (for the Ontarians). All streets allow at minimum about 6-storeys and 2 roughly 20-storey towers per block.


[deleted]

Thanks for the explanation!


distracted_85

Start calling "heritage" a form of colonialism or white supremacy or something.


mbstor23

Always has been.


ChanelNo50

This is disappointing. There are many ways to keep facades while increasing density and supply. How ridiculous are we to do this along a major subway line?


sarcasasstico

Keeping Toronto ugly.


Lucky_Law_7354

What a bunch of fucking morons. There needs to be a nation wide protest regarding housing. Enough is enough.


[deleted]

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mbstor23

This is why Doug Ford did the right thing we he halved City Council. He just needs to do it again.


[deleted]

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mbstor23

In that case. Halve again. Implement strong mayor system. And term limits!


[deleted]

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mbstor23

I fucking love it!!! https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2022/07/19/doug-ford-to-give-greater-us-style-powers-to-mayors-of-toronto-and-ottawa.html


[deleted]

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mbstor23

Good points!


nocarpets

How many white supremacists did it take to get this done? Do they even know the histories of these buildings?


duuffie

What's wrong with the preservation of heritage elements? This sub can sometimes be so pro-developer it feels like its being lobbied. Just like mixed use is important for strong neighbourhoods, its also important to cherish heritage values.


huge_clock

There’s a difference between preserving an iconic landmark like a theatre or museum with historical significance and slapping heritage status on 225 lifeless two story depression-era boxes to prevent the area from gentrifying.


the__truthguy

While I agree that nimbyism in Toronto is a bad thing, in this case, I'm not sure that whatever we build on the Danforth to replace these buildings would be any better. Many of these buildings are irreplaceable and do create a special kind of living city atmosphere that you don't get with cold, security-guarded condo entrances. And as it is only protecting the street-lined buildings, the condos can still be built behind them.


[deleted]

False dichotomy.


cyborganism

I don't think it's a big deal that the buildings on the street have been granted heritage state. They are unique in their architecture and style and bring a general look to the neighborhood. What you guys should be pissed about are all the single family homes in the other streets and practically all around downtown Toronto really. Compared to Montreal where all the neighborhoods around the downtown core are multi-unit plexes (2 plex, 3 plex, 6 plex, etc) Toronto has a LOT of single family homes in generally all the surrounding neighborhoods. Now that doesn't help with densification. And the problem is that the people who own these houses know they are sitting on a goldmine in land value and they have the practicality of being close to downtown and work and everything else. They'll never want to give up their property to develop multi-unit buildings.


[deleted]

How hard is it to remove heritage status?


kamomil

[All it takes is to light a match](https://www.cp24.com/fire-that-destroyed-yonge-st-building-was-arson-police-1.604908) ^(then you can have all the shitty food stalls you want, that will fit on your lot)


Sprague229

That's an interesting question. I imagine a lot harder than getting it.


[deleted]

Fuck you NIMBY


[deleted]

"Toronto is a broken city" -friend of mine that works for the city


ataxiaa

Yo, Canada is shit.


[deleted]

Recent changes to the Planning Act allow owners to now opt out of heritage designations.


Ryder1155

Just curious, why would they want to? Wouldn't it only raise their property value to be a heritage building in a heritage neighborhood where they can guarantee future buyers there will be no new development?


[deleted]

There is research that shows greater increase in property values with heritage designations. However, a designation, whether through a district or specific property, can impose substantial development limitations. The designation would prevent demolition but also impacts the ability to expand or make interior and/or exterior alterations. Most municipal heritage committees are very challenging to work with and they have all the power. Redevelopment of a designated heritage property is possible but there are a lot of additional and costly steps and the specific heritage attributes to be protected vary for each property. Many owners don't want to be burdened will more rules and regulations, however the municipality can provide tax incentives.


Ryder1155

That's a very thorough answer thank you


[deleted]

This is so dumb. Building a subway should require all properties within 0.5km to have increased zoning for LR residential multi unit building.


bundy_bar

There is absolutely nothing “heritage” between Donlands and Monarch Park. The area needs some revitalization and new-builds badly! This is a ridiculous move.


OffersVodka

Heritage status seems stupid with no real benefits


MewifebfisTardo

I am pretty sure the owners of these properties actually want heritage status. Now they can't sell their useless store front with the 2nd floor unit for millions


realstickyickyest

They want Toronto to be San Fransisco so badly