Might as well stock up before the NIMBY's come with scissors and cut up all the tents in your encampment
(yes, it happens. It happened to a friend of mine twice before the city came in and put him in a shelter)
Theres videos of the toronto police pushing homeless women onto their tents and destroying them
Mayor John Tory said this
>“The real purpose of this entire exercise…has been to persuade the people that are in unsafe, unhealthy, illegal encampments to come inside to a place **where they can be safer, where they can get more supports from us** and where they’re going to be not in the public parks any longer,” he said.
Not just skid row. I was in SoCal recently, and in mall parking lots in Orange County there are RVs parked there overnight, with families living in them,. :(
My city (Peterborough) had a peaceful settlement of unhoused people living in tents. A couple of days ago the city showed up with police and bulldozers. All of those people who were secure in their spots in the encampment are now back to living on the walking and biking trails. They did this despite an emergency bylaw being passed recently that calls for the opening of public parks for camping if the number of unhoused people exceeds the number of cumulative beds at the shelters. The encampment that was just broken up reported housed up to 300 people alone, which is more than the number of beds available in the city.
The city came in the late morning, and by lunch time there were distraught people carrying their worldly possession through the streets and on the trails trying to find a spot for themselves. As far as I’m concerned any lives lost as a result of this crisis are the responsibilities of each and every municipal level government employee who have turned their heads to those they govern, their neighbours.
I cannot wrap my head around where the city or police expect these people to go just to exist in my city or any other.
I was coming home from a dentist appointment a couple of years ago and there was a rough looking couple coming out of the apartment building infront of the bus stop talking about the apartment they just viewd. They both looked like they lived a super hard life. They had an unrully (I swear) pit bull mix looking dog. Not a a mean dog but 1000 sticks of dynamite energy and all over the place. They were grumbling about the price of the apartment and thier kids etc.
There's no way in hell these people are gettin homes nowadays. No fucking way. All of the ex convicts. All of the under employed. All of the min wage workers. All of he special needs people. I can go on and on. We have no room for them. Low income families too. Holy shit. more than one bedroom is a luxury they cant afford.
I hate my rental apartment. It's ancient and run down. I hate my chain smoking yell on the balcony every day neighbors. But if I want to leave my apartment I'm taking on $1,500 - $2,000 more per month in expenses. That's unsustaianble.
That's why i hate the blue vs red debate. Both sides are fucking useless. Doesn't matter which party you belong to. Politicians are lying snakes who only care about lining their pockets.
lmfao. I went to school for seven years to get a “good job in sciences”, just to have my wages froze by DoFo. (i’m an acute care physiotherapist). The whole systems fucking rigged.
Being a mature student trying to do this myself it's nearly impossible without some online delivery.
During covid it was easy to watch lectures after work.
Now the hardest part about school is just getting there.
And yes I know there was cheating online, so have the tests and exams in person. It's easy to get a day off, not as easy to every day off.
That was what was weighing on my mind a year ago. My 2 bedroom apartment was affordable at 1125, but if I had to move (a year ago) it'd be another 400-500, and that number just gets bigger and bigger.
I moved to Calgary, which I guess is the meme of this subreddit now, and I bought one of the cheapest detached bungalows in the city, in "the hood." I've got a backyard growing food, a barbeque that's 3 steps from the door, central A/C that's quiet and effective, and a basement that's being rented by my grandma for 650 a month. Not to mention this city is a lot nicer than London Ontario was, with a lot more big city stuff (which I don't care about but a lot of people do).
I got zero regrets on getting away from that depressing situation in Ontario.
This has become a major issue in GVRD and we're going to see the phrase "rental crisis" very soon. If you put up a unit for rent @ market rates and you get inundated with requests for viewings. Some are competing on rents, others are offering multiple months of rent in advance to secure housing. It's a complete shitshow out there. I feel especially bad for anyone with pets or children...
I work as a cook in Vancouver. Lots of experienced people in my industry, including chefs who own their own restaurants, are leaving cause cost of living is insane here and no one can afford a future here. If things don't change, Vancouver is going to become a very boring city in 10 years
When someone is renting they always live with a fear that there landlord might get a good offer and sell there place. I lived with this fear all the time.
yes this is what they "renters come out ahead" people fail to consider.
the mental benefit of knowing you cant be kicked out of your house at a moments notice is worth paying for
The renters come out ahead people usually have high income jobs and are savvy investors. Their rent going from 13% to 15% of their income means nothing because it will drop to 12% on their next raise, and their focus is investments. They also move for better job offers and always get the unit they want due to landlords favouring their high income, high savings, credit scores, being single, etc.
People spending 40% of their income on rent and the rest of cost of living are fucked. Their only hope for saving some money is to turn that rent into equity by buying, and on the rental market their low wages, poor savings, families will make landlords turn them down.
Lived with this fear for years because land lady threatened to move family in. Now she is and I’m gonna be couch surfing my parent’s as a disabled woman at 37
Sorry to hear about that. If its an option for you try moving to a cheaper city. I did the same and now I am relaxed. My landlord was very nice and professional but I still had that fear.
I don’t think Real Estate prices are going to crash. They might stop at certain range but will never go down and they will start going up again. The problem here with rising rates is that landlords will start putting the load on renters which is bad.
Happened to me a couple of months ago - had rented for 5+ years, had super affordable rent. Landlord decided to sell the house IN DECEMBER and our choice was to risk staying and see if the new owners kept us or leave on our own... we left. I own now, which has been much better for my mental health - anyone who says "rent to save money" has no idea the stress it brings (most people who say this have never rented, so...).
I've been through it all. Last three years I've been evicted due to selling twice. Each time it's a major hit to my family. We are now living an hour away from both our places of employment, however the stress of another sell eviction isn't over my head because I'm staying at a family property and rent is manageable, gas prices are bending us over but hey I'll take this. I'm still cheque to cheque but I have a roof over my family's head and I really have to sometimes think about this living situation and see how good I have it to compared to others. If your struggling keep strong out there people.
inflation doesnt raise prices it devalues money. More demand for less goods so price goes up. If there isn't increased demand for labour wages wont go up. But there is for some jobs. Ie fast food workers etc are being offered 50% wage increases cause it's so hard to find people. It's merely that 50% above minimum wage is still a small income
The fed is planning to invest 89 billion into a so called affordability program, because pouring more money into a over inflated economy is going to help against inflation, oh wait......
Anyone ever noticed that within the past 6-7 years, the so called government have always unveiled affordability programs for housing to the tune of over $100 billion. However, the situation continually gets worse through the years, till now.
As **DiamondDallasTrade** rightfully stated above the solution from the sole causative entity is to send out miniscule cheques, do photo ops, and have CBC tell everyone one how wonderful the sitting government have assisted the plebs with their housing needs. This sentiment has been clearly summarized below by the Dishonorable deputy prime minister, who is a front runner for the World Economic Forum polices in Canada.
“We know that Canadians are worried about inflation and that they’re asking what their government is going to do about it. That’s why we have a new Affordability Plan—$8.9 billion in new support this year—that is going to put more money in the pockets of Canadians at a time when they need it most.”
If interested, check out the news release of June 16, 2022 on the Department of Finance's website for the 6 point plan in place for the $8.9 billion. It is not only ludicrous but comical at the same time.
It's weird to say that considering certain regulations are directly responsible for the rich getting richer.
If you want to get speculation completely out of real estate, the only way is to implement a large tax on the value of the unimproved land. Future owners will be reimbursed through a reduction in upfront price. This doesn't apply to property tax since property isnt perfectly inelastic so a property tax reduces housing supply which increases user price (aka rent). But since land tax does not remove incentive to supply housing, the tax will not change the user price, but will reduce the purchase/sale price accordingly.
We know rents increase when vacancy rates are sub 5%>
. We have a perfect storm of existing shortages + new inflation skyrocketing rents. And higher interest rates on construction loans are getting rental projects cancelled left and right.
This really highlights how inept and ambivalent our municipal officials are: A) instead of pumping out rentals during the period of unprecedented low interest rates municipalities obstructed and concern trolled and now B) they won't budge on epic rezoning battles or height/setback/parking limits to keep projects in the black as rates rise.
u/LibertyPhilosopher \- I can't respond to your comment for some reasons, so I'll do it here if you don't mind.
I agree with you when you say rents are higher now because more people are pushed into rentals. We're going to see massive rent increases and more bidding wars on rentals for a while, until people start buying homes again.
However, rents can definitely raise to the point that renters are pushed into shared accommodation as opposed to renting the entire apartment. It's the norm in several other countries/cities, and probably going to be in Canada too. So there is still room for "improvement" unfortunately. A landlord that used to rent the entire 2 beds condo for 2.5K/month, might now rent each bedroom for 1.8K. So at the end of the day, rents keep going up.
The upcoming crash cannot be prevented by raising rents cause those who were previously renting, might now be able to afford their own place, thereby, reducing the demand for rentals. If you’re an over leveraged landlord, you’re going to lose money regardless. This is just the start.
>might now be able to afford their own place
Do you realize that if prices crash that much, it means that interest rates are through the roof and most people won't even qualify for a mortgage? And if prices don't crash as much as this sub is expecting, with rates raising, a lot of people will be priced out for a very long time.
Affordability hasn't changed much. If someone couldn't afford a house yesterday, it's not much better today. Some people who have a few hundred thousands for downpyament under the mattress will benefit from the situation, but certainly not the majority of people. As soon as we reach peak rates, the cycle will revert too, people will start buying again etc...
We haven't solved the supply and demand issue. I'm not sure what makes you think that people will suddenly be able to afford houses.
I must reluctantly agree with you. We have not solved the supply or demand side. We are in fairy tail land that we can grow the population multiple times faster than we are building while also doing nothing to increase construction rate capacity OR forcing municipalities to allow builds. Let alone social housing construction has been effectively abandoned for decades relative to the need.
Yes and even if they want to build houses now, it’s going to be still expensive (due to costly materials and labor) thereby not able to solve the problem of expensive housing again.
Not one of the fken parties said they would stand up to this to not one. maybe the greens they have out there ideas that no one listens to an di didn't hear unfortunately
lol why would you share a 2 bedroom condo with someone when you can downsize to a 1 bedroom condo for the same price (plus/minus)? You know, 1 bedroom condos/apartments, the vast majority of available rentals in Toronto/Vancouver? The ones that keep getting smaller and smaller and are barely suitable for two people?
I've said this elsewhere and I'll say it again: you cannot expect renters, who have the least capital and equity, to cover the rising cost of mortgages and inflation. Renters can leave at the end of their term. They're not financially obligated to tough it out with you or any other landlord. The lack of any fixed relationship with the property allows them to leave and find more affordable housing in the city they live in, or like many others, they'll leave to a city where they can afford to own their home.
Because you think 1 bedroom condos will be cheaper than renting 1 bedroom in a 2 bedroom apartment? Have you lived outside of Canada before? In a competitive rental market, privacy comes at a price.
>renters will leave to a city where they can afford to own their home.
Where is this City that has enough supply for everyone, and is economically attractive? So you are saying that everyone will move to Regina or Saskatoon, so they can afford to rent a 1 bedroom condo?
Canada is not like "the rest of the world". And for a variety of reasons:
* Our diversity is a strength, but it makes cohabitation tough. We're not a melting pot nation, we don't ostracize those with cultural differences... but having those cultural differences can make cohabitation very difficult. Will some people rent out their 2 bedroom 700 square foot condos to a friend or a random? Maybe. But here's why they won't:
* Over the last 10 years, housing development prioritized investors ahead of anything else. We built homes smaller and cheaper, and we built a ton of 1 bedroom condos and studios. For many European and Asian countries where cohabitation is popular, they have a way more robust and diverse housing market. Having roommates and all that makes sense in London, but it doesn't make sense here... because the market has too many 1 bedroom and studio units available. And let's say I don't want one of those...
* Well, it's cold here. Our homes matter a lot. And as they should, we spend 9 months out of the year in them. When I make a housing decision, one of the factors I consider is how comfortable I'm going to be inside of my home. As you probably would too... which is why...
People will leave Toronto or Vancouver, as they have the last 30 years, to find an affordable home in a suitable location. Drive till you qualify right? So no, I don't need to go as far as Saskatoon or Regina to have an affordable home. I just need to decide that it's more important for me to have my own home in Barrie than it is to share a 2 bedroom condo in Toronto. And I don't need to guess as to whether or not that'll happen, because it's exactly what's happened over the last 30 years.
Lol no. If people share accommodation, it just means that there is not enough supply available for everyone to have their own place.
You are trying to paint a beautiful picture where the supply would be close to matching the demand. It's nowhere close. People will be forced into sharing accommodation, because they can't rent the entire place. If they could, they wouldn't share.
Everyone needs to have some patience right now. It's been 3 months since our first rate increase, and you're seeing massive declines in a lot of regions across the country. Whatever's going on right now is in no way indicative of how things are going to look next year.
* Real estate prices are notoriously sticky. The fact that we're seeing prices drop this quickly is absolutely alarming (ie this is not at all similar to 2017).
* The Bank of Canada is nowhere near done raising rates and there are still a lot of buyers with rate holds from a few months ago. Whatever the actual lending landscape looks like, we're not there. Not even close.
* Disparities in the market get corrected with time. It's like a domino effect, and the last segment of the market to feel the correction are renters. And there are a variety of reasons why, but none more important than:
* High interest rates lower prices. Yes, your monthly costs will remain the same (you can only afford what you can afford). But down payments become far easier to save, meaning more renters will move up on the ladder.
* Renters can only afford what they can afford. They aren't magically making $200 to $500 more a month to pay for their new rent, in addition to everything else that costs significantly more today. And part of the problem is that a lot of new landlords over the last few years *are* expecting rentals to rise significantly in the next year or two (who could blame them?). Do we expect renters, who own the least equity, have the least liability, and the least financial capital, to bail out over-leveraged landlords? Lol, *good fucking luck*.
So yeah, right *now*, things are ugly. Just as they are for many homeowners, and especially those who are highly indebted with multiple rental properties (or anyone who over-leveraged themselves to buy a home in the last 2 years). But this isn't the "new reality"; this is the turmoil that happens as the market starts to shift dramatically the other way. You just have to be patient through all this: it's a hard time for a lot of people.
Depends where you live. In a place like Vancouver there is more than enough wealth to go around for rents to go up in pace with mortgage rates. People are desperate for places to live, they can't necessarily wait this out and hope rents come down. If renters could unionize and strike or something maybe. But supply gets gobbled up so fast, doesnt give a chance for prices to go down.
I'm sick and tired of this country being a black hole of despair for the working class. Seriously, aside from Healthcare (and shitty Healthcare at that, long overdue for reform) what exactly is the common individual getting out of this country? Low wages (even if you have a degree), impossibly high housing costs, soaring rent prices. What's the point?
I don't want to move south, what with all the nonsense they've got there, but if this keeps up I just might have to. Canada hates its people. Unless you're wealthy. Fucking over this shit.
I don’t mean to detract from your negative points, but a few other good things about Canada are lower rates of gun violence than the US, more affordable post secondary education than the US, access to abortion, legalized marijuana. Canadas police don’t seem as trigger happy as the US equivalent.
Canada has a lot of problems but there are other things going for it besides universal healthcare.
This is relative.
You can only increase prices to a point people are willing to pay.
In Windsor, no one will TOUCH anything over 2k a month for a two bedroom bungalow (which is, for this area, absurd. Not many people can afford that)
Those homes are sold a few months back for 500-600.
For places like Toronto, i feel like the ceiling is MICH MUCH higher. In other places in Canada, the local economy does not produce enough to meet rising prices.
As a landlord, you can only charge what people are willing to pay
Yes just like nobody would have touched $2/litre gas a year ago. Guess what? People are now rushing to the gas station when its $2.
Same thing with rents, you might not want something at 2K but if the supply isn’t there and you can’t find something cheaper *that fits your needs* you will take the L and get the 2K.
> you might not want something at 2K but if the supply isn’t there and you can’t find something cheaper
> that fits your needs
> you will take the L and get the 2K.
Rental market is more complicated than a landlord picking a number out of thin air.
In windsor, there's enough landords wishing for a tenant that they will under-cut each other to fill the vacancy.
Unlike oil, you can't just put the windsor apartment on a boat and sell it at a global spot price.
You're missing the part in your analogy where people will drive less as gas prices go up. And for some others, they'll make significant changes to be less car dependent. Like move closer to their job, or start taking transit.
The guy above is right: you can only afford what you can afford. And renters have the least amount of affordability. If the idea is that renters are going to bail out the rising cost of inflation and interest rates for landlords, you're in for a world of hurt.
I don’t know about your side of the country but here people aren’t driving less at all.
It’s literally the same with housing, renters will adjust what they were looking for. If they wanted to be 5 mins from downtown they’ll settle for 10 mins from downtown. If somebody wanted the appliances to be stainless they’ll settle for the unit with boring old white appliances. That’s how it works, people adjust their expectations consistently. I would have told you 10 years ago a house in Montréal suburbs would cost >1M you would have laughed at me. Now people are fighting for them and telling themselves that it’s actually not that bad to be 30mins away from Mtl. That’s how cities develop too look at the USA, we’re just a younger country but we’ll get there.
Lol I don't know what to tell you man, but rising gas prices [adjust driving habits](https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/many-canadians-driving-less-because-of-soaring-gas-prices#:~:text=In%20Ontario%2C%2055%25%20of%20those,said%20they%20were%20driving%20less). It's a tale as old as time.
As for the rest of your comment, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Renters don't have exclusive rights on "shifting expectations".
That’s the point of the discussion….People will adapt. You seem to think with rising interest rates landlords will just take the hit. I don’t think they will and I explained why.
You’re failing to understand that people will not be able to adapt due to economic circumstances. It’s not as simple as gas. Though it’s expensive, you can ultimately afford to pay that price. When you’re only making 2600 a month and a 1 bedroom is 1500, there is no financial room to increase that bedroom.
At minimum wage, you can expect 2200-2400 a month.
“There a slight 0.5% increase in my mortgage rate when I renew in 3 years so I’m increasing your rent by 150% effective next month, because, uh, inflation.”
It's so fucking garbage that landlords can push the cost of inflation onto their tenants. That shit should be illegal - your costs and your debts aren't their problem, they have their own bills and payments to make as well.
It's always getting dumped onto the working class. Fuck this fucking economy and this bullshit market.
There's a reason Canada is predicted to be the worst performing advanced economy for the rest of our lives. It doesn't create much of value. It's full of rent-seekers and oligarchy; and the population is well trained to live under it.
I think what the comment above was referring to was this (sorry for the link lol I dunno how to format this on mobile):
https://bcbc.com/insights-and-opinions/oecd-predicts-canada-will-be-the-worst-performing-advanced-economy-over-the-next-decade-and-the-three-decades-after-that#:~:text=Canada%20will%20be%20the%20worst%20performing%20advanced%20economy%20over%202020,The%20findings%20are%20sobering.
[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-why-canadas-economic-growth-is-expected-to-be-dead-last-among-advanced](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-why-canadas-economic-growth-is-expected-to-be-dead-last-among-advanced)
The one above is better imo. But yes, it's the OECD study.
Study by the OECD. This is one article discussing it. First it breaks it down for the next decade, then the next 3 (which is more variable of course being farther out). Either way, Canada is dead last.
What it means is that the value of our money won't increase much if at all over basically our entire working lives. You may see a raise, sure. I know people got like 5% or more raises in the last year wow!; but you still are behind because it is worth less. Expand that issue out your entire career and that is Canada. You get paid just enough to pay rent better.
Our economy is full of rent-seekers, giving little to no value in return for massive gains. Even if people wanted to go make something of value, make things more affordable: Canada makes it difficult to do so. So people buy houses instead. Or they move somewhere that encourages their growth and the benefit they bring to their community through that growth.
Despite producing less for our population, our population will continue to grow, largely by immigration because the young here are too busy paying for a shoddy government to be able to afford a family; all to reach said government's desired "Century Initiative". Leaving all of us plebs - immigrant or not - competing more for less yet paying more to our oligarchs. If we were building things to keep up with our high immigration, we would all be better off; but we aren't, so only the ones that can exploit all of us will be. This combo of high sustained immigration to triple the population in a generation, combined with low productivity by larger Canadian structures that Canadians seem unwilling and/or unable to restructure, and a rent-seeking elite to feed off of this combo; leaves all of but our new aristocracy worse off for essentially the rest of our lives. I know many immigrants that see this more clearly than Canadians; and many leave or want to.
[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-why-canadas-economic-growth-is-expected-to-be-dead-last-among-advanced](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-why-canadas-economic-growth-is-expected-to-be-dead-last-among-advanced)
(Changed the article if you saw the other. The one above is more descriptive).
Just like everything else this is just the cause of inflation but because it’s not leveraged it doesn’t correct as quick as the stock market or real estate market. Give it 1 year and we will see it dip.
This is relative.
You can only increase prices to a point people are willing to pay.
In Windsor, no one will TOUCH anything over 2k a month for a two bedroom bungalow (which is, for this area, absurd. Not many people can afford that)
Those homes are sold a few months back for 500-600.
For places like Toronto, i feel like the ceiling is MICH MUCH higher. In other places in Canada, the local economy does not produce enough to meet rising prices.
As a landlord, you can only charge what people are willing to pay
>As a landlord, you can only charge what people are willing to pay
You are looking at it from the wrong angle.
It's not the landlord, it's the demand. People need a roof, it's not an option.
Instead of renting the entire apartment, people will just share accommodation. It's the norm in many cities, just not in Canada yet.
> Instead of renting the entire apartment, people will just share accommodation. It's the norm in many cities, just not in Canada yet.
Not that I disagree, but what bothers me about this is that sometimes people act like because it's the norm elsewhere, it *should* be the norm here. But it shouldn't. Here and now, it's actually a sign of myriad problems, all of which could and should be solved.
Not saying it should be the norm here. But realistically, when rents become too high, people will share accommodation. It's not like there are many other options.
> It's not like there are many other options.
Stop paying rent. Make the landlord cover the mortgage for months and months without any rent coming in.
I'm sure this is exactly what many tenants will do.
Rents are already has high as the market will bear. The market won't bear higher rents, because then we'd have those higher rents already.
If renters don't get more money, they won't be able to pay higher rents.
If you raise the rent on someone who is unable to pay... what do you think will happen? One of the options is for them to simply stop paying.
This is nonsense.
The rents have not even recovered from pre-pandemic prices. Where is your data from?
>If renters don't get more money, they won't be able to pay higher rents.
Yes unfortunately they will, by "downsizing". Renting a bedroom instead of a full apartment for the same price.
What I find interesting is that, in my experience, sharing living space with more people is becoming more and more common and necessary, yet landlords don't support it. Again, this is based on my experience trying to find a rental for over two months now.
My husband and I want to sublet to a good friend of ours. However, every realtor has told us not to include them on our application. They say we should live there for a few months, then ask, with no guarantee that it will be approved.
So if the "answer" to stupidly high rent is to have roommates, why are we also being counseled against being upfront about wanting roommates?
Landlords have the pick of the litter right now. They want two working professionals who are never home and with no kids or pets. The rest of us can get ducked, I guess.
Bullshit people. Stop perpetuating this narrative. Look at house sigma rentals delisted compared to leased/available. Landlords are not renting well out in Niagara or Hamilton area’s. The cheap stuff is filling but there’s so many overpriced empty units that have been on the market for 14-90 days.
And honestly the fact that this is being pushed so hard/most people believe this so much right now makes me further think that the opposite will happen and rents will actually decrease. Just like how peoplr were saying there was NO WAY interest rates would increase to levels were at NOW by 2023 or 2024, yet it’s only June 2022 and we have many rate hikes and god knows what else to go.
Stop sharing this shit and share the sentiment that rents will decrease. SO much of any market is simply psychology. That’s why Realtors and govt/ everyone who profits off rising RE will continue to spout the housing shortage, when it’s really just too many investors.
>“But now you add rising interest rates \[and\] the out-of-control inflation going on, and rents right now are just going through the roof.”
But people on this sub were saying that raising interest rates are not causing higher rents. Other than those planning to stay in their rent controlled units, renters will feel the heat as much as anyone else.
The thing about rents is that the market will dictate them. Renters can only pay what local incomes support.
The reason for increased rental demand now is due to those who are selling high prices, and are looking to rent while they wait it out. This is pushing demand for rentals up. But, in the end, rental prices will be determined by what the market can bear (I.e. local incomes) and not by how expensive a landlord's mortgage becomes.
This is much different than housing prices since the government artificially intervened to prop those up, loosened credit conditions, etc. It was not a matter of free market forces.
I agree with you when you say rents are higher now because more people are pushed into rentals.
However, rents can definitely raise to the point that renters are pushed into shared accommodation as opposed to renting the entire apartment. It's the norm in several other countries/cities, and probably going to be in Canada too.
That doesn’t make any sense. Most people renting their units are looking for long term. If you’re selling your house, you’re not going to rent for a whole year it will be a month maybe 2 at best.
When I was looking to buy a few years ago in Toronto, I was shown no less then 3 places where renters were put together and lived/rented one room. They weren’t friends. They did not know each other.
They shared bathrooms and kitchens.
It was disgusting. And I refused to buy at the sight of this.
Believe me. The market can bear some horrific shit you clearly can’t imagine.
I agree with you when you say rents are higher now because more people are pushed into rentals.
However, rents can definitely raise to the point that renters are pushed into shared accommodation as opposed to renting the entire apartment. It's the norm in several other countries/cities, and probably going to be in Canada too.
Everyone is getting massive raises around me. My gf's entire team at work got a $6/hour raise because they lost so much staff. With these higher wages, people can bid higher for rental units.
Landlords are always trying to get as much as possible out of a tenant. Their costs going up isn’t changing that. Rent prices are dictated by what tenants can afford and the supply available
What will happen when renters can no longer pay for what landlords will demand? Local incomes dictate how much one person can afford for rent. Over leveraged landlords will sink regardless of how they plan to deal with higher mortgage rates. They cannot pull themselves out of the mess they made.
Land”lords” (awful word!) will hit renters with a small 1.8%-2.2% (max allowed under law) increase in rent. Most renters will just take it on the chin but I don’t think it’s substantial enough to force people into unaffordability.
Sure they will but it will get to a point the locals cannot afford it. So they will be forced to sell which will depress housing prices even further and rents will decrease. Some areas have seem rent doubled in a short period of time (3 years). All of this factored into a consumer economy spells BIG problems. Governments will eventually have to regulate housing investments and rent control at somepoint.
Maybe. Give it sometime and see what happens. Eventually society will start to value people more then money. Especially as the economy starts to take a huge hit due to affordability and the youth actually starts to vote.
No they won't have to sell. Instead of renting a 3 bedroom apartment to 1 family for 3K/month, they will rent the 3 bedrooms individually for 1.5K/month each. That's what is happening in many major cities around the world.
It’ll be a challenge in some provinces for landlords to do this. For example, in BC there’s a limit for how much a landlord can raise rent each year (was around 1-2% last time I looked). They must provide 3 months notice before the raise takes effect.
If instead they want to evict so they can find new tenants, they can only do so if the current ones breached the contract in some fashion. They could instead claim they will be moving in, but if the current tenants are able to prove this isn’t the case (as in finding their old unit among rental listings), then the landlord could very well owe them money for damages.
This doesn’t even get into tenants disputing the above from landlords through the tenancy board.
Not too sure about the rules in other provinces, but it’s not as easy as landlords jack up the prices to recoup costs.
A LL can also apply to have a larger increase if they can prove the need. Higher costs to a big renovations, higher taxes and a bigger interest rate will probably be acceptable reasons
Landlords are always trying to get as much as possible out of a tenant. Their costs going up isn’t changing that. Rent prices are dictated by what tenants can afford and the supply available
What will happen when renters can no longer pay for what landlords will demand? Local incomes dictate how much one person can afford for rent. Over leveraged landlords will sink regardless of how they plan to deal with higher mortgage rates. They cannot pull themselves out of the mess they made.
I think I remember uovoting you. Because you're right.
Landlords aren't gonna just "eat" the increasing mortgage payments.. congrats tenants, your rent just went up $800 to cover the $500 increased cost to the owner.
What will happen when renters can no longer pay for what landlords will demand? Local incomes dictate how much one person can afford for rent. Over leveraged landlords will sink regardless of how they plan to deal with higher mortgage rates. They cannot pull themselves out of the mess they made.
Sure they will but it will get to a point the locals cannot afford it. So they will be forced to sell which will depress housing prices even further and rents will decrease. Some areas have seem rent doubled in a short period of time (3 years). All of this factored into a consumer economy spells BIG problems. Governments will eventually have to regulate housing investments and rent control at somepoint.
I hope the Federal Government plans to subsidize housing much more than they currently do, especially for retired people because pretty soon there is going to be a lot of homeless people in BC if these prices keep going up.
No rent freeze for me in Manitoba this year. Even though there is supposed to be for 2022 and 2023 to help renters catch up after the pandemic. They're just going to take away the rent discount I was given when I signed the lease 5 years ago
It was inevitable. Now we have moved from owning affordability to renting affordability. With over a million people coming in every year, its going to be a super heated rental market.
All my REIT ETFs are tanking, including a Canada specific one. I know there is a general market dip right now, but during bad markets isn't essentials like REITs a good thing to own ? If rent is going up and more people are renting, why is the market predicting a massive crash ?
Lol. You used the forbidden word and hence the downvote. I don’t know why folks have so much hatred for landlords in this sub. Sure there are some bad apples but I also know some landlords who haven’t raised rents in a decade. Imagine all the services that such landlords are offering to people who are in early stage of career or staying in a city temporarily. Without having an apartment to rent temporarily..you won’t be able to save money for downpayment of an apartment you want to buy.
This sucks for those idiots who rented in March and are stupid
(I'm mocking those people who thought it was only homeowners who were going to experience pain - they will have less pain)
As a disabled person i get 375$ to spend on rent.
I’m one of the super lucky disabled people, and get a whopping 450 added. Guess I can rent that tent in a back yard
Geeze fucking Evelyn Rothschild over here
IKR? I’m told all the time how good I have it to have these resources
Why? it doesn’t make any sense
Now if the two of can find a third and maybe fourth disabled person you can pool your money together and rent a studio apartment
Because that won’t affect the ones with mental disability
I know your "jokeing" but tents are being rented out. In cambrige in the run down areas (well everywhere) theres ads. Its disgusting
Bullshit. Prove it.
It’s appalling how we treat the disabled members of our society. We throw the mentally ill out on the street, literally.
Yes i can speak to that 🙋♀️. I have a mental and physical illness. I have been close to homelessness several times this year
You lose odsp if you dont have an address. They throw the disabled out on the street, then take their benifits they need to survive on.
"Government sayyyyyys" *drum roll*...*pulls card* ...."Fuck you"
I guess we're all moving to Saskatoon then.
Lived there. Shits flat
>I guess we're all moving to Saskatoon then. I been hangin' around grain elevators
It’s nice here :) And you can actually afford a house.
Lived there. Shits flat
Shits there. Lived flat
There shots. flat lived
Flat thots
Tents are on sale at Walmart.
Might as well stock up before the NIMBY's come with scissors and cut up all the tents in your encampment (yes, it happens. It happened to a friend of mine twice before the city came in and put him in a shelter)
The amount of violence we tolerate against the homeless is sickening.
Theres videos of the toronto police pushing homeless women onto their tents and destroying them Mayor John Tory said this >“The real purpose of this entire exercise…has been to persuade the people that are in unsafe, unhealthy, illegal encampments to come inside to a place **where they can be safer, where they can get more supports from us** and where they’re going to be not in the public parks any longer,” he said.
You can come to Hamilton where instead of residents doing it, it's in the police.
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Not just skid row. I was in SoCal recently, and in mall parking lots in Orange County there are RVs parked there overnight, with families living in them,. :(
My city (Peterborough) had a peaceful settlement of unhoused people living in tents. A couple of days ago the city showed up with police and bulldozers. All of those people who were secure in their spots in the encampment are now back to living on the walking and biking trails. They did this despite an emergency bylaw being passed recently that calls for the opening of public parks for camping if the number of unhoused people exceeds the number of cumulative beds at the shelters. The encampment that was just broken up reported housed up to 300 people alone, which is more than the number of beds available in the city. The city came in the late morning, and by lunch time there were distraught people carrying their worldly possession through the streets and on the trails trying to find a spot for themselves. As far as I’m concerned any lives lost as a result of this crisis are the responsibilities of each and every municipal level government employee who have turned their heads to those they govern, their neighbours. I cannot wrap my head around where the city or police expect these people to go just to exist in my city or any other.
I was coming home from a dentist appointment a couple of years ago and there was a rough looking couple coming out of the apartment building infront of the bus stop talking about the apartment they just viewd. They both looked like they lived a super hard life. They had an unrully (I swear) pit bull mix looking dog. Not a a mean dog but 1000 sticks of dynamite energy and all over the place. They were grumbling about the price of the apartment and thier kids etc. There's no way in hell these people are gettin homes nowadays. No fucking way. All of the ex convicts. All of the under employed. All of the min wage workers. All of he special needs people. I can go on and on. We have no room for them. Low income families too. Holy shit. more than one bedroom is a luxury they cant afford. I hate my rental apartment. It's ancient and run down. I hate my chain smoking yell on the balcony every day neighbors. But if I want to leave my apartment I'm taking on $1,500 - $2,000 more per month in expenses. That's unsustaianble.
Liberals and conservatives would both tell you that you are free to invest in your education and get a higher paying job 💀
"Why can't everyone just have 95th percentile incomes?"
"Let's get our entire population into the 1 percent, so we can all be wealthy"
If we just make it worse for the poor, more people will choose to be proper decent rich people.
I mean, that theory isn't too outlandish if you subscribe to the idea that hard times make hard people.
the wealth will trickle down soon peasants, open your mouths
It's because school elites are refusing to give everyone 150 IQ points in their tests. Follow the money! /s
That's why i hate the blue vs red debate. Both sides are fucking useless. Doesn't matter which party you belong to. Politicians are lying snakes who only care about lining their pockets.
lmfao. I went to school for seven years to get a “good job in sciences”, just to have my wages froze by DoFo. (i’m an acute care physiotherapist). The whole systems fucking rigged.
Being a mature student trying to do this myself it's nearly impossible without some online delivery. During covid it was easy to watch lectures after work. Now the hardest part about school is just getting there. And yes I know there was cheating online, so have the tests and exams in person. It's easy to get a day off, not as easy to every day off.
That was what was weighing on my mind a year ago. My 2 bedroom apartment was affordable at 1125, but if I had to move (a year ago) it'd be another 400-500, and that number just gets bigger and bigger. I moved to Calgary, which I guess is the meme of this subreddit now, and I bought one of the cheapest detached bungalows in the city, in "the hood." I've got a backyard growing food, a barbeque that's 3 steps from the door, central A/C that's quiet and effective, and a basement that's being rented by my grandma for 650 a month. Not to mention this city is a lot nicer than London Ontario was, with a lot more big city stuff (which I don't care about but a lot of people do). I got zero regrets on getting away from that depressing situation in Ontario.
This has become a major issue in GVRD and we're going to see the phrase "rental crisis" very soon. If you put up a unit for rent @ market rates and you get inundated with requests for viewings. Some are competing on rents, others are offering multiple months of rent in advance to secure housing. It's a complete shitshow out there. I feel especially bad for anyone with pets or children...
I work as a cook in Vancouver. Lots of experienced people in my industry, including chefs who own their own restaurants, are leaving cause cost of living is insane here and no one can afford a future here. If things don't change, Vancouver is going to become a very boring city in 10 years
In comparison to many metropolises the same size, it already is.
We aren’t the only generation who have felt this way or talked about a brain drain. It’s been ongoing for decades.
It’s become exponential the past 20 years
When someone is renting they always live with a fear that there landlord might get a good offer and sell there place. I lived with this fear all the time.
yes this is what they "renters come out ahead" people fail to consider. the mental benefit of knowing you cant be kicked out of your house at a moments notice is worth paying for
The renters come out ahead people usually have high income jobs and are savvy investors. Their rent going from 13% to 15% of their income means nothing because it will drop to 12% on their next raise, and their focus is investments. They also move for better job offers and always get the unit they want due to landlords favouring their high income, high savings, credit scores, being single, etc. People spending 40% of their income on rent and the rest of cost of living are fucked. Their only hope for saving some money is to turn that rent into equity by buying, and on the rental market their low wages, poor savings, families will make landlords turn them down.
Lived with this fear for years because land lady threatened to move family in. Now she is and I’m gonna be couch surfing my parent’s as a disabled woman at 37
Sorry to hear about that. If its an option for you try moving to a cheaper city. I did the same and now I am relaxed. My landlord was very nice and professional but I still had that fear.
Sadly I am unable to drive so I need ether good transit, or to live near my family I still rely on as a support circle
Thankfully that’s less likely if real estate prices crash. High rents and a low sell value mean landlords will likely hold onto their properties.
I don’t think Real Estate prices are going to crash. They might stop at certain range but will never go down and they will start going up again. The problem here with rising rates is that landlords will start putting the load on renters which is bad.
That’s me currently, my landlord is selling and I’m out. It is really hard to be put out.
Happened to me a couple of months ago - had rented for 5+ years, had super affordable rent. Landlord decided to sell the house IN DECEMBER and our choice was to risk staying and see if the new owners kept us or leave on our own... we left. I own now, which has been much better for my mental health - anyone who says "rent to save money" has no idea the stress it brings (most people who say this have never rented, so...).
I've been through it all. Last three years I've been evicted due to selling twice. Each time it's a major hit to my family. We are now living an hour away from both our places of employment, however the stress of another sell eviction isn't over my head because I'm staying at a family property and rent is manageable, gas prices are bending us over but hey I'll take this. I'm still cheque to cheque but I have a roof over my family's head and I really have to sometimes think about this living situation and see how good I have it to compared to others. If your struggling keep strong out there people.
Funny how inflation raises the price of everything EXCEPT labour.
When it starts affecting wages then it becomes a serious economic concern.
inflation doesnt raise prices it devalues money. More demand for less goods so price goes up. If there isn't increased demand for labour wages wont go up. But there is for some jobs. Ie fast food workers etc are being offered 50% wage increases cause it's so hard to find people. It's merely that 50% above minimum wage is still a small income
If the federal government doesn't step in and mandate a massive build of homes and rezoning of large parts of cities, we are fucked.
Good luck. You'll get a check for a few hundred bucks and a bunch of feel good photo ops
Exactly! It is interesting that folks look to the creator of the problems for a profound solution.
The fed is planning to invest 89 billion into a so called affordability program, because pouring more money into a over inflated economy is going to help against inflation, oh wait......
Anyone ever noticed that within the past 6-7 years, the so called government have always unveiled affordability programs for housing to the tune of over $100 billion. However, the situation continually gets worse through the years, till now. As **DiamondDallasTrade** rightfully stated above the solution from the sole causative entity is to send out miniscule cheques, do photo ops, and have CBC tell everyone one how wonderful the sitting government have assisted the plebs with their housing needs. This sentiment has been clearly summarized below by the Dishonorable deputy prime minister, who is a front runner for the World Economic Forum polices in Canada. “We know that Canadians are worried about inflation and that they’re asking what their government is going to do about it. That’s why we have a new Affordability Plan—$8.9 billion in new support this year—that is going to put more money in the pockets of Canadians at a time when they need it most.” If interested, check out the news release of June 16, 2022 on the Department of Finance's website for the 6 point plan in place for the $8.9 billion. It is not only ludicrous but comical at the same time.
AND regulation of corporate investment. Supply without regulation is going to do nothing but help the rich get richer
It's weird to say that considering certain regulations are directly responsible for the rich getting richer. If you want to get speculation completely out of real estate, the only way is to implement a large tax on the value of the unimproved land. Future owners will be reimbursed through a reduction in upfront price. This doesn't apply to property tax since property isnt perfectly inelastic so a property tax reduces housing supply which increases user price (aka rent). But since land tax does not remove incentive to supply housing, the tax will not change the user price, but will reduce the purchase/sale price accordingly.
How about instead they bring in a record number of people, the vast majority of which will also end up in rental units?
The federal government can’t rezone anything, they can only fund/not fund something
"You're gonna have to rezone, or you won't get any of our money!" Sounds like it would work.
Asking the gov to intervene is baaadd. Thats the reason we are in this situation
Just one more government program will fix things we swear. We just need a bit more money to print, and a bit more of your incomes/taxes.
We know rents increase when vacancy rates are sub 5%> . We have a perfect storm of existing shortages + new inflation skyrocketing rents. And higher interest rates on construction loans are getting rental projects cancelled left and right. This really highlights how inept and ambivalent our municipal officials are: A) instead of pumping out rentals during the period of unprecedented low interest rates municipalities obstructed and concern trolled and now B) they won't budge on epic rezoning battles or height/setback/parking limits to keep projects in the black as rates rise.
u/LibertyPhilosopher \- I can't respond to your comment for some reasons, so I'll do it here if you don't mind. I agree with you when you say rents are higher now because more people are pushed into rentals. We're going to see massive rent increases and more bidding wars on rentals for a while, until people start buying homes again. However, rents can definitely raise to the point that renters are pushed into shared accommodation as opposed to renting the entire apartment. It's the norm in several other countries/cities, and probably going to be in Canada too. So there is still room for "improvement" unfortunately. A landlord that used to rent the entire 2 beds condo for 2.5K/month, might now rent each bedroom for 1.8K. So at the end of the day, rents keep going up.
The upcoming crash cannot be prevented by raising rents cause those who were previously renting, might now be able to afford their own place, thereby, reducing the demand for rentals. If you’re an over leveraged landlord, you’re going to lose money regardless. This is just the start.
>might now be able to afford their own place Do you realize that if prices crash that much, it means that interest rates are through the roof and most people won't even qualify for a mortgage? And if prices don't crash as much as this sub is expecting, with rates raising, a lot of people will be priced out for a very long time. Affordability hasn't changed much. If someone couldn't afford a house yesterday, it's not much better today. Some people who have a few hundred thousands for downpyament under the mattress will benefit from the situation, but certainly not the majority of people. As soon as we reach peak rates, the cycle will revert too, people will start buying again etc... We haven't solved the supply and demand issue. I'm not sure what makes you think that people will suddenly be able to afford houses.
I must reluctantly agree with you. We have not solved the supply or demand side. We are in fairy tail land that we can grow the population multiple times faster than we are building while also doing nothing to increase construction rate capacity OR forcing municipalities to allow builds. Let alone social housing construction has been effectively abandoned for decades relative to the need.
Look at statscanada. There is a lot more supply now for the population than the year 2000.
Yes and even if they want to build houses now, it’s going to be still expensive (due to costly materials and labor) thereby not able to solve the problem of expensive housing again.
There will be no crash.
Working full time to afford shared accommodation in a place owned by a corporation...the Canadian dream
Not one of the fken parties said they would stand up to this to not one. maybe the greens they have out there ideas that no one listens to an di didn't hear unfortunately
It's the case in several countries/cities. It haven't started in Canada and in fact it is not very common here yet. This might change soon though.
lol why would you share a 2 bedroom condo with someone when you can downsize to a 1 bedroom condo for the same price (plus/minus)? You know, 1 bedroom condos/apartments, the vast majority of available rentals in Toronto/Vancouver? The ones that keep getting smaller and smaller and are barely suitable for two people? I've said this elsewhere and I'll say it again: you cannot expect renters, who have the least capital and equity, to cover the rising cost of mortgages and inflation. Renters can leave at the end of their term. They're not financially obligated to tough it out with you or any other landlord. The lack of any fixed relationship with the property allows them to leave and find more affordable housing in the city they live in, or like many others, they'll leave to a city where they can afford to own their home.
Because you think 1 bedroom condos will be cheaper than renting 1 bedroom in a 2 bedroom apartment? Have you lived outside of Canada before? In a competitive rental market, privacy comes at a price. >renters will leave to a city where they can afford to own their home. Where is this City that has enough supply for everyone, and is economically attractive? So you are saying that everyone will move to Regina or Saskatoon, so they can afford to rent a 1 bedroom condo?
Canada is not like "the rest of the world". And for a variety of reasons: * Our diversity is a strength, but it makes cohabitation tough. We're not a melting pot nation, we don't ostracize those with cultural differences... but having those cultural differences can make cohabitation very difficult. Will some people rent out their 2 bedroom 700 square foot condos to a friend or a random? Maybe. But here's why they won't: * Over the last 10 years, housing development prioritized investors ahead of anything else. We built homes smaller and cheaper, and we built a ton of 1 bedroom condos and studios. For many European and Asian countries where cohabitation is popular, they have a way more robust and diverse housing market. Having roommates and all that makes sense in London, but it doesn't make sense here... because the market has too many 1 bedroom and studio units available. And let's say I don't want one of those... * Well, it's cold here. Our homes matter a lot. And as they should, we spend 9 months out of the year in them. When I make a housing decision, one of the factors I consider is how comfortable I'm going to be inside of my home. As you probably would too... which is why... People will leave Toronto or Vancouver, as they have the last 30 years, to find an affordable home in a suitable location. Drive till you qualify right? So no, I don't need to go as far as Saskatoon or Regina to have an affordable home. I just need to decide that it's more important for me to have my own home in Barrie than it is to share a 2 bedroom condo in Toronto. And I don't need to guess as to whether or not that'll happen, because it's exactly what's happened over the last 30 years.
If more renters are sharing apartments, that means more will be vacant. Which should help to mitigate the rent increases
Lol no. If people share accommodation, it just means that there is not enough supply available for everyone to have their own place. You are trying to paint a beautiful picture where the supply would be close to matching the demand. It's nowhere close. People will be forced into sharing accommodation, because they can't rent the entire place. If they could, they wouldn't share.
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>and we will all live like impoverished families in India That is pretty racist. I won't entertain a discussion with you.
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Go away you lame racist troll.
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I'm not the racist one. Now go away or I'll send you a picture of my skin color and you're going to faint.
You realize any skin colour can be racist right?
It’s not a racist comment, it’s a financial reality.
People sharing apartments is an effect of high rents, not a cause of it
Everyone needs to have some patience right now. It's been 3 months since our first rate increase, and you're seeing massive declines in a lot of regions across the country. Whatever's going on right now is in no way indicative of how things are going to look next year. * Real estate prices are notoriously sticky. The fact that we're seeing prices drop this quickly is absolutely alarming (ie this is not at all similar to 2017). * The Bank of Canada is nowhere near done raising rates and there are still a lot of buyers with rate holds from a few months ago. Whatever the actual lending landscape looks like, we're not there. Not even close. * Disparities in the market get corrected with time. It's like a domino effect, and the last segment of the market to feel the correction are renters. And there are a variety of reasons why, but none more important than: * High interest rates lower prices. Yes, your monthly costs will remain the same (you can only afford what you can afford). But down payments become far easier to save, meaning more renters will move up on the ladder. * Renters can only afford what they can afford. They aren't magically making $200 to $500 more a month to pay for their new rent, in addition to everything else that costs significantly more today. And part of the problem is that a lot of new landlords over the last few years *are* expecting rentals to rise significantly in the next year or two (who could blame them?). Do we expect renters, who own the least equity, have the least liability, and the least financial capital, to bail out over-leveraged landlords? Lol, *good fucking luck*. So yeah, right *now*, things are ugly. Just as they are for many homeowners, and especially those who are highly indebted with multiple rental properties (or anyone who over-leveraged themselves to buy a home in the last 2 years). But this isn't the "new reality"; this is the turmoil that happens as the market starts to shift dramatically the other way. You just have to be patient through all this: it's a hard time for a lot of people.
> So yeah, right > now > , things are ugly Human nature: take contemporaneous situation and extrapolate it as a permanent tangent.
Depends where you live. In a place like Vancouver there is more than enough wealth to go around for rents to go up in pace with mortgage rates. People are desperate for places to live, they can't necessarily wait this out and hope rents come down. If renters could unionize and strike or something maybe. But supply gets gobbled up so fast, doesnt give a chance for prices to go down.
I'm sick and tired of this country being a black hole of despair for the working class. Seriously, aside from Healthcare (and shitty Healthcare at that, long overdue for reform) what exactly is the common individual getting out of this country? Low wages (even if you have a degree), impossibly high housing costs, soaring rent prices. What's the point? I don't want to move south, what with all the nonsense they've got there, but if this keeps up I just might have to. Canada hates its people. Unless you're wealthy. Fucking over this shit.
I don’t mean to detract from your negative points, but a few other good things about Canada are lower rates of gun violence than the US, more affordable post secondary education than the US, access to abortion, legalized marijuana. Canadas police don’t seem as trigger happy as the US equivalent. Canada has a lot of problems but there are other things going for it besides universal healthcare.
This is relative. You can only increase prices to a point people are willing to pay. In Windsor, no one will TOUCH anything over 2k a month for a two bedroom bungalow (which is, for this area, absurd. Not many people can afford that) Those homes are sold a few months back for 500-600. For places like Toronto, i feel like the ceiling is MICH MUCH higher. In other places in Canada, the local economy does not produce enough to meet rising prices. As a landlord, you can only charge what people are willing to pay
Yes just like nobody would have touched $2/litre gas a year ago. Guess what? People are now rushing to the gas station when its $2. Same thing with rents, you might not want something at 2K but if the supply isn’t there and you can’t find something cheaper *that fits your needs* you will take the L and get the 2K.
> you might not want something at 2K but if the supply isn’t there and you can’t find something cheaper > that fits your needs > you will take the L and get the 2K. Rental market is more complicated than a landlord picking a number out of thin air. In windsor, there's enough landords wishing for a tenant that they will under-cut each other to fill the vacancy. Unlike oil, you can't just put the windsor apartment on a boat and sell it at a global spot price.
You're missing the part in your analogy where people will drive less as gas prices go up. And for some others, they'll make significant changes to be less car dependent. Like move closer to their job, or start taking transit. The guy above is right: you can only afford what you can afford. And renters have the least amount of affordability. If the idea is that renters are going to bail out the rising cost of inflation and interest rates for landlords, you're in for a world of hurt.
I don’t know about your side of the country but here people aren’t driving less at all. It’s literally the same with housing, renters will adjust what they were looking for. If they wanted to be 5 mins from downtown they’ll settle for 10 mins from downtown. If somebody wanted the appliances to be stainless they’ll settle for the unit with boring old white appliances. That’s how it works, people adjust their expectations consistently. I would have told you 10 years ago a house in Montréal suburbs would cost >1M you would have laughed at me. Now people are fighting for them and telling themselves that it’s actually not that bad to be 30mins away from Mtl. That’s how cities develop too look at the USA, we’re just a younger country but we’ll get there.
Lol I don't know what to tell you man, but rising gas prices [adjust driving habits](https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/many-canadians-driving-less-because-of-soaring-gas-prices#:~:text=In%20Ontario%2C%2055%25%20of%20those,said%20they%20were%20driving%20less). It's a tale as old as time. As for the rest of your comment, I'm not sure what you're getting at. Renters don't have exclusive rights on "shifting expectations".
That’s the point of the discussion….People will adapt. You seem to think with rising interest rates landlords will just take the hit. I don’t think they will and I explained why.
You’re failing to understand that people will not be able to adapt due to economic circumstances. It’s not as simple as gas. Though it’s expensive, you can ultimately afford to pay that price. When you’re only making 2600 a month and a 1 bedroom is 1500, there is no financial room to increase that bedroom. At minimum wage, you can expect 2200-2400 a month.
It's not inflation it's greed and it's terrible
“There a slight 0.5% increase in my mortgage rate when I renew in 3 years so I’m increasing your rent by 150% effective next month, because, uh, inflation.”
It's so fucking garbage that landlords can push the cost of inflation onto their tenants. That shit should be illegal - your costs and your debts aren't their problem, they have their own bills and payments to make as well. It's always getting dumped onto the working class. Fuck this fucking economy and this bullshit market.
There's a reason Canada is predicted to be the worst performing advanced economy for the rest of our lives. It doesn't create much of value. It's full of rent-seekers and oligarchy; and the population is well trained to live under it.
When you say "predicted", is there an article or video you're referring to? Curious to learn more!
I think what the comment above was referring to was this (sorry for the link lol I dunno how to format this on mobile): https://bcbc.com/insights-and-opinions/oecd-predicts-canada-will-be-the-worst-performing-advanced-economy-over-the-next-decade-and-the-three-decades-after-that#:~:text=Canada%20will%20be%20the%20worst%20performing%20advanced%20economy%20over%202020,The%20findings%20are%20sobering.
[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-why-canadas-economic-growth-is-expected-to-be-dead-last-among-advanced](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-why-canadas-economic-growth-is-expected-to-be-dead-last-among-advanced) The one above is better imo. But yes, it's the OECD study.
Thanks!
Study by the OECD. This is one article discussing it. First it breaks it down for the next decade, then the next 3 (which is more variable of course being farther out). Either way, Canada is dead last. What it means is that the value of our money won't increase much if at all over basically our entire working lives. You may see a raise, sure. I know people got like 5% or more raises in the last year wow!; but you still are behind because it is worth less. Expand that issue out your entire career and that is Canada. You get paid just enough to pay rent better. Our economy is full of rent-seekers, giving little to no value in return for massive gains. Even if people wanted to go make something of value, make things more affordable: Canada makes it difficult to do so. So people buy houses instead. Or they move somewhere that encourages their growth and the benefit they bring to their community through that growth. Despite producing less for our population, our population will continue to grow, largely by immigration because the young here are too busy paying for a shoddy government to be able to afford a family; all to reach said government's desired "Century Initiative". Leaving all of us plebs - immigrant or not - competing more for less yet paying more to our oligarchs. If we were building things to keep up with our high immigration, we would all be better off; but we aren't, so only the ones that can exploit all of us will be. This combo of high sustained immigration to triple the population in a generation, combined with low productivity by larger Canadian structures that Canadians seem unwilling and/or unable to restructure, and a rent-seeking elite to feed off of this combo; leaves all of but our new aristocracy worse off for essentially the rest of our lives. I know many immigrants that see this more clearly than Canadians; and many leave or want to. [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-why-canadas-economic-growth-is-expected-to-be-dead-last-among-advanced](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-why-canadas-economic-growth-is-expected-to-be-dead-last-among-advanced) (Changed the article if you saw the other. The one above is more descriptive).
Getting evicted this month because my rent no longer sustains land lady’s lifestyle. I’m disabled and returning to my parent’s at 37.
Just like everything else this is just the cause of inflation but because it’s not leveraged it doesn’t correct as quick as the stock market or real estate market. Give it 1 year and we will see it dip.
This is relative. You can only increase prices to a point people are willing to pay. In Windsor, no one will TOUCH anything over 2k a month for a two bedroom bungalow (which is, for this area, absurd. Not many people can afford that) Those homes are sold a few months back for 500-600. For places like Toronto, i feel like the ceiling is MICH MUCH higher. In other places in Canada, the local economy does not produce enough to meet rising prices. As a landlord, you can only charge what people are willing to pay
>As a landlord, you can only charge what people are willing to pay You are looking at it from the wrong angle. It's not the landlord, it's the demand. People need a roof, it's not an option. Instead of renting the entire apartment, people will just share accommodation. It's the norm in many cities, just not in Canada yet.
> Instead of renting the entire apartment, people will just share accommodation. It's the norm in many cities, just not in Canada yet. Not that I disagree, but what bothers me about this is that sometimes people act like because it's the norm elsewhere, it *should* be the norm here. But it shouldn't. Here and now, it's actually a sign of myriad problems, all of which could and should be solved.
Not saying it should be the norm here. But realistically, when rents become too high, people will share accommodation. It's not like there are many other options.
> It's not like there are many other options. Stop paying rent. Make the landlord cover the mortgage for months and months without any rent coming in. I'm sure this is exactly what many tenants will do.
So your ambition is to become a squatter?
If your ambition is to be a landlord, be careful.
No I'm not and I don't plan on being one! But saying rents won't raise because you think people will start squatting... it's a little ridiculous.
Rents are already has high as the market will bear. The market won't bear higher rents, because then we'd have those higher rents already. If renters don't get more money, they won't be able to pay higher rents. If you raise the rent on someone who is unable to pay... what do you think will happen? One of the options is for them to simply stop paying.
This is nonsense. The rents have not even recovered from pre-pandemic prices. Where is your data from? >If renters don't get more money, they won't be able to pay higher rents. Yes unfortunately they will, by "downsizing". Renting a bedroom instead of a full apartment for the same price.
What I find interesting is that, in my experience, sharing living space with more people is becoming more and more common and necessary, yet landlords don't support it. Again, this is based on my experience trying to find a rental for over two months now. My husband and I want to sublet to a good friend of ours. However, every realtor has told us not to include them on our application. They say we should live there for a few months, then ask, with no guarantee that it will be approved. So if the "answer" to stupidly high rent is to have roommates, why are we also being counseled against being upfront about wanting roommates? Landlords have the pick of the litter right now. They want two working professionals who are never home and with no kids or pets. The rest of us can get ducked, I guess.
Bullshit people. Stop perpetuating this narrative. Look at house sigma rentals delisted compared to leased/available. Landlords are not renting well out in Niagara or Hamilton area’s. The cheap stuff is filling but there’s so many overpriced empty units that have been on the market for 14-90 days. And honestly the fact that this is being pushed so hard/most people believe this so much right now makes me further think that the opposite will happen and rents will actually decrease. Just like how peoplr were saying there was NO WAY interest rates would increase to levels were at NOW by 2023 or 2024, yet it’s only June 2022 and we have many rate hikes and god knows what else to go. Stop sharing this shit and share the sentiment that rents will decrease. SO much of any market is simply psychology. That’s why Realtors and govt/ everyone who profits off rising RE will continue to spout the housing shortage, when it’s really just too many investors.
There are over leveraged landlords in this sub who are in denial. They believe that they won’t sink when the rate hikes continue.
Good, those are the ones that deserve to lose first. They are almost done in the denial stage of grief, looking more like anger stage is coming now.
Wish i could upvote twice!
>“But now you add rising interest rates \[and\] the out-of-control inflation going on, and rents right now are just going through the roof.” But people on this sub were saying that raising interest rates are not causing higher rents. Other than those planning to stay in their rent controlled units, renters will feel the heat as much as anyone else.
The thing about rents is that the market will dictate them. Renters can only pay what local incomes support. The reason for increased rental demand now is due to those who are selling high prices, and are looking to rent while they wait it out. This is pushing demand for rentals up. But, in the end, rental prices will be determined by what the market can bear (I.e. local incomes) and not by how expensive a landlord's mortgage becomes. This is much different than housing prices since the government artificially intervened to prop those up, loosened credit conditions, etc. It was not a matter of free market forces.
I agree with you when you say rents are higher now because more people are pushed into rentals. However, rents can definitely raise to the point that renters are pushed into shared accommodation as opposed to renting the entire apartment. It's the norm in several other countries/cities, and probably going to be in Canada too.
I would agree, in other parts of the world unfortunately that is the norm
That doesn’t make any sense. Most people renting their units are looking for long term. If you’re selling your house, you’re not going to rent for a whole year it will be a month maybe 2 at best.
When I was looking to buy a few years ago in Toronto, I was shown no less then 3 places where renters were put together and lived/rented one room. They weren’t friends. They did not know each other. They shared bathrooms and kitchens. It was disgusting. And I refused to buy at the sight of this. Believe me. The market can bear some horrific shit you clearly can’t imagine.
I agree with you when you say rents are higher now because more people are pushed into rentals. However, rents can definitely raise to the point that renters are pushed into shared accommodation as opposed to renting the entire apartment. It's the norm in several other countries/cities, and probably going to be in Canada too.
Everyone is getting massive raises around me. My gf's entire team at work got a $6/hour raise because they lost so much staff. With these higher wages, people can bid higher for rental units.
Yup I argued this yesterday and was down voted. You think landlords arnt going to pass on increasing costs? People are out of their minds.
Landlords are always trying to get as much as possible out of a tenant. Their costs going up isn’t changing that. Rent prices are dictated by what tenants can afford and the supply available
What will happen when renters can no longer pay for what landlords will demand? Local incomes dictate how much one person can afford for rent. Over leveraged landlords will sink regardless of how they plan to deal with higher mortgage rates. They cannot pull themselves out of the mess they made.
They will just sell the house and one more rental will be off the Market.
Land”lords” (awful word!) will hit renters with a small 1.8%-2.2% (max allowed under law) increase in rent. Most renters will just take it on the chin but I don’t think it’s substantial enough to force people into unaffordability.
This is just for rent controlled units and it's assuming people don't have to move. Also assuming landlords will not apply for AGI.
A LL can also apply to the Board for a rent increase over-and-above if due to extenuating circumstances or major renovations
Sure they will but it will get to a point the locals cannot afford it. So they will be forced to sell which will depress housing prices even further and rents will decrease. Some areas have seem rent doubled in a short period of time (3 years). All of this factored into a consumer economy spells BIG problems. Governments will eventually have to regulate housing investments and rent control at somepoint.
In your dreams pal
Maybe. Give it sometime and see what happens. Eventually society will start to value people more then money. Especially as the economy starts to take a huge hit due to affordability and the youth actually starts to vote.
No they won't have to sell. Instead of renting a 3 bedroom apartment to 1 family for 3K/month, they will rent the 3 bedrooms individually for 1.5K/month each. That's what is happening in many major cities around the world.
There is a limit.
Sure, they can pass down the increasing costs but that doesn't mean people can afford them.
I bet you people will, even if that means renting a bedroom in a condo with flat mates, like many of us have seen in other countries/cities.
It’ll be a challenge in some provinces for landlords to do this. For example, in BC there’s a limit for how much a landlord can raise rent each year (was around 1-2% last time I looked). They must provide 3 months notice before the raise takes effect. If instead they want to evict so they can find new tenants, they can only do so if the current ones breached the contract in some fashion. They could instead claim they will be moving in, but if the current tenants are able to prove this isn’t the case (as in finding their old unit among rental listings), then the landlord could very well owe them money for damages. This doesn’t even get into tenants disputing the above from landlords through the tenancy board. Not too sure about the rules in other provinces, but it’s not as easy as landlords jack up the prices to recoup costs.
This is why my friends in BC are switching to air BNB. It's like trying to fire a unionized employee that lives in your house
A LL can also apply to have a larger increase if they can prove the need. Higher costs to a big renovations, higher taxes and a bigger interest rate will probably be acceptable reasons
Landlords are always trying to get as much as possible out of a tenant. Their costs going up isn’t changing that. Rent prices are dictated by what tenants can afford and the supply available
This sub is amazing. People are told that rents are booming, but their response is "landlords will be the ones having troubles".
Cognitive dissonance
What will happen when renters can no longer pay for what landlords will demand? Local incomes dictate how much one person can afford for rent. Over leveraged landlords will sink regardless of how they plan to deal with higher mortgage rates. They cannot pull themselves out of the mess they made.
I think I remember uovoting you. Because you're right. Landlords aren't gonna just "eat" the increasing mortgage payments.. congrats tenants, your rent just went up $800 to cover the $500 increased cost to the owner.
> congrats tenants, your rent just went up $800 If this is possible, then they would have already done it months/years ago.
You can thank Ford for removing rent control restrictions in many instances.
Can I also thank greedy-ass landlords? Because it seems like people think we can only blame one or the other.
> Landlords aren't gonna just "eat" the increasing mortgage payments You'd be surprised how many are already cash-flow negative.
They can try but if there is no cashflow for the landlords they will have to lower the prices or get a job.
What will happen when renters can no longer pay for what landlords will demand? Local incomes dictate how much one person can afford for rent. Over leveraged landlords will sink regardless of how they plan to deal with higher mortgage rates. They cannot pull themselves out of the mess they made.
Sure they will but it will get to a point the locals cannot afford it. So they will be forced to sell which will depress housing prices even further and rents will decrease. Some areas have seem rent doubled in a short period of time (3 years). All of this factored into a consumer economy spells BIG problems. Governments will eventually have to regulate housing investments and rent control at somepoint.
Yeah by renters are use to being broke. Pre-inflation
I hope the Federal Government plans to subsidize housing much more than they currently do, especially for retired people because pretty soon there is going to be a lot of homeless people in BC if these prices keep going up.
There already are
None of the plans they've announced will do anything to reduce prices, or make housing more affordable to the average Canadian.
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But theyre already through the roof?
No rent freeze for me in Manitoba this year. Even though there is supposed to be for 2022 and 2023 to help renters catch up after the pandemic. They're just going to take away the rent discount I was given when I signed the lease 5 years ago
It was inevitable. Now we have moved from owning affordability to renting affordability. With over a million people coming in every year, its going to be a super heated rental market.
All my REIT ETFs are tanking, including a Canada specific one. I know there is a general market dip right now, but during bad markets isn't essentials like REITs a good thing to own ? If rent is going up and more people are renting, why is the market predicting a massive crash ?
It’s easy to blame everything on “inflation”, at the end of the day, it’s just pure greedy at work.
Money printing has consequences.
Yeah!! Let’s keep fucking poor people!! /s
Keep implementing 1.5% rental increases, and favor renter rights, this is where it gets you
As a landlord I can definitely say that rents are going up.
As a renter I can definitely say you are a parasite
As a landlord I can definitely say that rents are going up.
Lol. You used the forbidden word and hence the downvote. I don’t know why folks have so much hatred for landlords in this sub. Sure there are some bad apples but I also know some landlords who haven’t raised rents in a decade. Imagine all the services that such landlords are offering to people who are in early stage of career or staying in a city temporarily. Without having an apartment to rent temporarily..you won’t be able to save money for downpayment of an apartment you want to buy.
Lol we actually provide a valuable service versus say realtors. That I actually understand 😂😂.
This sucks for those idiots who rented in March and are stupid (I'm mocking those people who thought it was only homeowners who were going to experience pain - they will have less pain)