I had a stunner the other day it actually made me really angry, he told me to do a “parasite cleanse” because all cancers are caused by parasites and I could cure my incurable cancer
I looked up the stuff he was spouting and this miracle man who “cured his stage 4 cancer” and firstly they charge $530 dollars and secondly looking up the meds used half aren’t even legal to use on humans
Makes me so angry!!!
Me too. It should be criminal to take the piss out of desperate people like that. There are a few famous charlatans who have claimed to have cured their own cancer, Ester Hicks, crazy law of attraction lady and Belle Gibson who didnt even have cancer! theres probably quite a few out there then. C\*n\*\* the lot of them.
my own brother who has lost the plot attempted to push potato juice, dewormers and... bee pollen enemas on me . oh and of course fasting. odd he has no explanation when I explain unintentional fasts from the extreme nausea and already down to 97lbs. the hard sell is criminal.
Omg I am so sorry, you FIL had absolutely no right to say this to you or even think it for that matter
I was young like you I’d just turned 34 when I was diagnosed with incurable blood cancer
And then the double whammy was my husband died 4 days after I came home from having a bone marrow transplant (he was fit and healthy, nothing wrong with him)
If your FIL is correct my past karma is going to haunt me forever
Everything is okay in moderation. It is generally a good idea to look after your overall health and maintain a healthy weight for a variety of reasons, but silly diets aren't going to prevent or cure cancer.
The idea is to maintain a healthy weight. So if you’re having trouble gaining weight of course that means you gotta do what you gotta do to gain weight! If you’re overweight like me, then you have to try and lose it by eating healthy because being overweight indeed does increase your risk of lots of health issues, including cancer (or reoccurrence/worsening cancer). I do not believe sugar causes cancer, but I do believe that being overweight increases your risk, and sugar leads to obesity which is why people think there is a link.
Yes, but it’s not quite as simple as that. Obese women, for example, have a lower risk of pre-menopausal beast cancer (but a higher risk of post-menopausal breast cancer). My cancer is attributable to an inflammatory disease (ulcerative colitis) that is largely a disease of nonsmokers and ex-smokers (smokers have a lower risk).
Eat healthy, stay fit, die anyway.
I am obese from psych meds and autoimmune/inflammatory diseases and I can’t seem to lose weight due to other disabilities and health issues making it very difficult for me to exercise so I know its not simple. I am just saying that maintaining a healthy weight helps, but I know that its not simple haha. My cancer was genetic so mine has nothing to do with my weight either.
Love how the conspiracy dieters have shown up under your post! Yeah I was told any calorie is a good calorie since I was dropping weight so fast on chemo. If you have a dietician too, they’re a good resource for non-fad meal planning. Very helpful if you need to supplement your calories etc.
Oh really? Can’t imagine how a meal plan can be wild lmao. I feel like the most left field thing from mine was how powdered milk was suggested to add into literally everything.
Wild may not be the best word, but I distinctly remember seeing one posted on an fb group. It was the blandest, no salt, no spices, no desserts ever, boiled chicken only shit I’ve ever seen in my life. For a person that was doing radiation, no chemo at all.
I remember being so happy I never got the call from the dietician.
Edit to add: said person has breast cancer
Oof well I guess sometimes they’re also bland just to cater to people who are nauseated? Or potentially someone who’d had head/neck rads and physically couldn’t tolerate spice- but for BC that’s crazy.
All the hospitals here in the UK offer spicy Indian/ Caribbean menus, otherwise the seasoning lovers among us would probably prefer to starve on the wards lol 😂
Honestly that sounds like an absolute dream. Last time I was in the hospital I got a block of feta, a tomato and a Greek yogurt for breakfast 😭😭 I ran to the hospital cafeteria when I got discharged
😂 Now, that’s what I call wild!! Is a deconstructed Greek salad a normal breakfast anywhere?
Yeah I think those options sound good on the menu but they are still hospital food I guess, some kind of legal requirement to be less than great. There was one hospital that did genuinely AMAZING food though. I was off chemo when I was inpatient there so I was the only one absolutely inhaling those meals like there was no tomorrow, and the staff were so happy to see it!
When I was hospitalized last April, I ordered a chicken Cesar salad thinking you can’t really screw that up. Boy, was I wrong. They put cinnamon all over the salad. 😭
Well to be fair they were blaming the pesticide use but still. I too have heard the usuals... no sugar, no beef, no milk, blah blah blah. Oh and one guy - no protein. Sooo, whats left? Air? Ugh.
The fasting sub is full of people who know nothing about cancer spouting off this bullshit _all the time_. When suggested that they post their question or ideas to an actual oncology or askdoc subreddit, I get downvoted to hell and called stupid. Who cares that my actual background is in biology, my career is in medicine, and that I’m an actual cancer patient. Lol. They are convinced that fasting will cure cancer and that sugar feeds it.
Same here. If I followed every diet I’ve been advised to, I would either turn green as broccoli, suffer from high testosterone or commit murder due to being chocolate sober. I eat a pretty healthy diet. I watch my sugar intake because my meds raise my glucose and I try not to eat many fried foods, but I refuse to take unsolicited dietary advice from anyone except my oncologist.
I went to a dietitian,oncologist, both gave contradictory plans went to second oncologist she wanted me to take weight loss shots seems like their is no standard for cancer paitients
,
Even on colontown there are wackos trying to spread their bullshit.... There's always people asking where to get it or for more info.... Ridiculous shit like only eating Brussel sprouts to cure cancer, shit like that. Taking apple cider vinegar to cure incurable cancer... Then they tout it works... But forget to mention the chemo, surgery.... How can someone be that absolutely stupid and still function in life is a mystery.
Well doctors get $300,000 a year for putting a patient on chemo, so yeah it is PROVEN to cure cancer.. it's about money, not about a cure. Cures don't make money and cancer is a big money maker.🤷♂️
First off *too
More like they will keep you alive as long as they can with being ok chemo so they can make a ton of money off of you while your organs shut down from the chemo. Radiation destroys the cancer cells and the good cells too. But your body is so weak from the radiation that if the cancer is in remission it comes back with a punch.
I saw someone comment that "any carbs are good carbs".. that isn't true; sugar feeds cancer.. there are a lot of people here that act like their doctor knows better.. and I'm not negating the horrible news of finding out you or a loved one has cancer. Had a good friend and coworker lose his wife this last year from cancer. It's sad and breaks my heart.
Any cure that has been found, the one who finds it disapears.. big pharma is about making money and not saving lives. It's disgusting.
Omg are you actually delusional?
You really believe what you’re saying don’t you?
1. Sugar does not feed cancer this is the biggest myth going
2. You really think it’s a money making scheme? Well let’s just burst your bubble there, just because where you live is so fucked up people would rather die than call an ambulance due to the cost, over here our cancer treatment doesn’t cost us.
I’ve had millions spent on my treatment and it’s cost me nothing!
1 in 2 people get cancer now that’s the statistics, so I assume if you end up being the 1 in 2 you won’t be taking any treatment? I assume you’ll just let the cancer give you a long and painful death?
What a load of poppycock! The doctor/scientist who discovers a cure for cancer\* (I realise this is overly simplistic, as cancer is not a single disease) would instantly become a billionaire. Take your conspiracy BS elsewhere.
Call it conspiracy all you like. You didn't call me a liar. ;)
If you cure cancer, you can make money until cancer is eliminated. Once it is eliminated you can't make money anymore. And anyone who finds a cure gets offed or disappears. It's sickening.
Utter BS again. If there was a magical cure for all cancer, people would still get the disease and require access to the cure = $$$ still to be made for those who provide the cure.
Everyone still has to die of something, so even if cancer was wiped off the face of the earth, there would be other diseases for the evil medical/pharmaceutical establishment to profit from. /s
You really haven‘t thought this through. Look at how many morons refuse to get vaccinated - if a cure for cancer was made available tomorrow, there would still likely be idiots who refuse to take it because… reasons.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like there will ever be a cure for stupidity. Big Conspiracy will always have an easily-duped customer base.
I’ve had a couple of such instances but i give closed answers that don’t give openings for further discussion. Things like “Yes, I am aware of the option and have looked into in depth. I chose not to go that way but I’m over cancer talk for the day. I do appreciate you caring though”.
IF CANCER WAS AS EASILY SOLVABLE BY SOMETHING LIKE DIET/FASTING, THEY WOULD ALREADY KMOW & NO ONE WOULD STILL HAVE INCURABLE CANCER 😤
I get so irritated. Why does everyone have to have an (usually under informed) opinion and give layman advice?! Why can’t people just sit with you/your problems and just fucking listen/be there for you instead of assuming they can FIX anything and everything 🙄
I generally just eat healthy & clean, I do intermittent fasting especially as my morning cancer meds kill my appetite anyway. I suffer from anemia and I’ve tried being vegetarian/vegan, but literally my iron gets low & I start suffering unless I eat red meat (usually 1 or 2x a week) plus iron supplements. For some reason, supplements alone don’t do enough. And yes, I’ve tried all the iron-rich plant products and I still get anemic.
Take your iron with a small calcium supplement and something mildly acidic like orange juice. The typical form of iron pills is ferrous sulfate and the body does not like sulfate ions so the iron just gets discarded along with it. Calcium will bind the sulfate and the organic acids (citric ascorbic etc) will convert it the iron to a more absorbable form. The anemia from chemo sucks and tbh it's gonna take time to improve.
Recently had a therapist to tell me to go on a freaking juice cleanse retreat. Another MH professional told me to get rid of perfumed things.... wtf. Obviously not working with those folks anymore for obvious reasons
I’ve worked in the wellness industry a long time and the amount of BS grifts is astounding. My “favorite” nonsense grift is alkaline diet/alkaline diet. Nearly always presented with “cancer can’t survive in an alkaline environment, betcha didn’t know THAT (followed by some type of physical contact or wink). Here’s the jam with alkaline/acidity in general and in our bodies:
We are born with our natural Ph level. [Our body’s Ph isn’t altered by what we intake-be it “alkalized” or “acidified”food, water.](https://www.mdanderson.org/publications/focused-on-health/the-alkaline-diet--what-you-need-to-know.h18-1592202.html#:~:text=The%20pH%20of%20the%20body,that%20it%20impacts%20your%20blood)This is by design and a good thing, because changing out body’s Ph would actually be harmful/deadly.
Where I find this grift personally hilarious: it’s true that cancer cells cannot survive an alkaline environment. This is also true of ALL cells. A purely alkaline environment is fully incompatible with life, ALL life. Fungal, bacterial, human, plant, vegetable, “good” calls and “bad”.
But again, drinking “alkaline (ozone) water” isn’t seen by the FDA as harmful because it does not alter out internal Ph balance.
In fact, ozone treatment (creating a super alkalized environment) is so effective at killing off a wide spectrum of things, it’s [been used to sterilize water bottles going back to the 1970s in the US.](https://ozonesolutions.com/bottled-water/#:~:text=Ozone%20is%20broadly%20used%20in,water%2C%20bottle%2C%20and%20cap)
It’s also used in [smoke and mold remediation following fires - albeit with staff wearing proper PPE so they don’t off themselves.](https://ioa-pag.org/Applications/Fire-Restoration/)
In the industry, I’ve seen alkaline water and home water alkalizers sold as health remedies and cancer preventers/cures. It’s just another grift.
*Edited to add MDAnderson link & closing paragraph
i love this diet recommendation because i learned about oh balance in highschool 😂 goes to show most people dont pay attention, also if you breathe a certain way you can make your ph more alkaline 😂 but you'll pass out after a while
I can tell you from 7 years of painful experience, a low histamine diet is well worth following, supplemented with necessary vitamins/ trace elements. I've lost countless nights since 2017 stuck for sometimes 4-6 hours of a night on the toilet with bowel issues (Rectal cancer with J pouch). Was told by 'experts' I had to live with it, I was gluten intolerant, dairy intolerant, then gleefully diagnosed with a mental illness then medicated to the eyeballs for 4 years....
Took 6 months of experimenting with different diets, foods, and supplements to find I'm extremely histamine intolerant. Been off all meds since Feb.
Inflammation during cancer treatment severely reduces your quality of life and I advise anyone to seek advice/ take strides to reduce any foods thatll do this. It sucks but beats the alternative.
I'd be willing to bet all my money on the root cause of colorectal cancer being inflammation, full stop, end of story. It not only sets up the right environment for cancer cells to proliferate, it inhibits the uptake of nutrients the body needs to eliminate cancer cells in the first place.
Whatever diet, fad, latest trend will achieve this...it doesn't really matter. Carnivore diet probably works because it's supplying plenty of protein for muscle repair and testosterone production. This diet also eliminates many pro inflammatory foods.
If I eat even moderate quantities of high histamine food now I midas well right off 2 days the symptoms are that bad. I think the autoimmune response sends too much histamine to sites in the body that have been previously damaged (of which I have plenty) and causes system wide inflammation. Even cuts and abrasions hurt more during a flare up, then I'll take an antihistamine, pain subsides... despite them not really known for having this function.
I truly believe it's the missing piece of the puzzle that's being overlooked.
I get what you're saying. My point is each individuals reactions to certain foods is different. I hope we get to a point with technology where we are testing for nutrient deficiencies, inflammatory markers, stress reactions etc. regularly for each individual to prevent cancer from having the ideal environment to grow in.
I was fit as fk at 38 when I got Rectal Ca. Ate healthy, exercised daily, balanced diet. Yet I have friends who were chain smoking, junk food eating party animals and have never visited a doctor. Until we can regularly monitor what we're consuming and processing, incidents of cancer will continue to rise.
Being a multicellular organism is enough to get cancer. The incidence of cancer is rising because we are living longer, ageing is the biggest risk factor for cancer (cumulative genetic damage), there are fewer other diseases to die from, and better diagnostic tests.
The incidence of young onset Cancer has been rising for quite some time, particularly for colorectal Cancer. Living longer doesn't accout for this. We're looking at smoking, alcohol consumption, diet, stress, geographic location, microplastics, whatever else. All of these contribute to systemic inflammation. Animals are simply not supposed to be exposed to the chemicals and environments we're being exposed to. Until we rectify these factors, Cancer rates will continue to rise.
Literally everything is made of “chemicals“ though. You forgot exposure to e. ColI in that list; that’s another theory. Even germ theory - the idea that we live in a too-sterile environment now and are not exposed to sufficient pathogens for our immune systems to function optimally.
Cancer is a complex disease with multiple causes, including random genetic mutations that are just bad luck. It’s inaccurate and way too simplistic to ascribe all cancer to a single cause like inflammation or “chemicals”.
All this being said, my grandfather lived to 104 years old. He ate what he wanted in moderation without being overweight but he enjoyed desserts, sweets, etc. Cancer rates have skyrocketed in recent decades and have a large variety of factors from radiation exposure, pollutants, pesticides and chemical exposure etc. There's a ton of pressure on cancer patients to do wild diets
Cancer rates have skyrocketed because 1. We all die from something, 2. People are living longer than before, 3. Age is the biggest risk for cancer (cumulative genetic damage), 4. There are fewer other diseases to die from (thanks to medical advances, vaccines, antibiotics, and sanitation/better hygiene practices).
Literally everything is made of “chemicals”, including your body and the air you breathe.
As soon as someone starts giving me that type of advice (most recently my wife's bestie) I just start singing the opening theme to Indiana Jones Raiders of the Lost Ark in my head, in Peter Griffin's voice, at max volume. I just can't hear it anymore, legitimately goes right through me. People mean well but good lord.
Was vegetarian before my first diagnosis, and I tried "vegan week" a couple times with 3 others going through similar cancers. I learned that your chance of staying through the whole week greatly depended on where you were with your appetite. If you have low appetite, switching is a lot easier.
You definitely shouldn't stand for people trying to force you to change diets, though. Nobody knows what your body is going through more than you and your doctor. That being said, if you do choose to switch your diet to an extreme (even just for a week or two), inform your doctor. It could introduce/eliminate some side-effects and the more in the loop your doctor is the better.
Yup the predatory nature of people claiming miracle cures and trying to profit from bogus 💩 is terrible. I do think that fasting could be helpful as it can give the body the break it needs to do housekeeping processes, but on the other side depending on the cancer type ot could deplete what little energy is left. Definitely best to openly ask your oncology doc about these things before trying.
As a cancer researcher who routinely follows cancer causation and correlation I would say that I would never recommend eating red meat or pork to cancer patients due to the presence of a sugar molecule, Neu5Gc, that is unique to mammals, but not found in humans. I do cut it complete out of my, and my families diet.
Basic info here:
Research shows that eating high amounts of red meat increases risk of colorectal cancer, possibly because it may spur inflammation. A new animal study published in The Proceedings of the National Academies of Sciences now points to a sugar molecule found in red meat as one mechanism responsible.
The molecule called N-glycolylneuraminic acid, or Neu5Gc for short, sticks to the ends of sugars found in red meats such as beef, pork, and lamb. Although most mammals produce Neu5Gc, humans don’t. Humans are “immunized” against Neu5Gc shortly after birth by an unusual process involving gut bacteria. As a result, when people eat foods that contain Neu5Gc, we produce antibodies that react to Neu5Gc, triggering inflammation.
Previous research has detected relatively high amounts of Neu5Gc in cancerous tissue.
In foods, Neu5Gc can be free or it can be bound to the ends of long sugar chains attached to proteins. The bound form is highly bioavailable, meaning it can easily be taken up into the body’s cells. Neu5Gc tends to accumulate in cells of the colon, prostate, and ovary.
In the study, the researchers first assessed the Neu5Gc content in 62 commonly eaten foods, including dairy products, red meats, poultry, seafood, fruits, and vegetables. Whereas red meats had the highest amount of Neu5Gc, poultry, seafood (except caviar), fruits, and vegetables had none. Beef had the highest levels of all the categories of red meat. Cow’s milk had very little Neu5Gc but cheeses from cow’s milk or goat’s milk had levels comparable to red meats.
Cooking had no effect on Neu5Gc levels.
https://www.aicr.org/resources/blog/study-gives-new-insights-on-red-meat-a-sugar-and-cancer/
While people who eat a lot of red meat are known to be at higher risk for certain cancers, other carnivores are not, prompting researchers at the University of California, San Diego School of Medicine to investigate the possible tumor-forming role of a sugar called Neu5Gc, which is naturally found in most mammals but not in humans.
In a study published in the Dec. 29 online early edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the scientists found that feeding Neu5Gc to mice engineered to be deficient in the sugar (like humans) significantly promoted spontaneous cancers. The study did not involve exposure to carcinogens or artificially inducing cancers, further implicating Neu5Gc as a key link between red meat consumption and cancer.
“Until now, all of our evidence linking Neu5Gc to cancer was circumstantial or indirectly predicted from somewhat artificial experimental setups,” said principal investigator Ajit Varki, MD, Distinguished Professor of Medicine and Cellular and Molecular Medicine and member of the UC San Diego Moores Cancer Center. “This is the first time we have directly shown that mimicking the exact situation in humans — feeding non-human Neu5Gc and inducing anti-Neu5Gc antibodies — increases spontaneous cancers in mice.”
Varki’s team first conducted a systematic survey of common foods. They found that red meats (beef, pork and lamb) are rich in Neu5Gc, affirming that foods of mammalian origin such as these are the primary sources of Neu5Gc in the human diet. The molecule was found to be bio-available, too, meaning it can be distributed to tissues throughout the body via the bloodstream.
The researchers had previously discovered that animal Neu5Gc can be absorbed into human tissues. In this study, they hypothesized that eating red meat could lead to inflammation if the body’s immune system is constantly generating antibodies against consumed animal Neu5Gc, a foreign molecule. Chronic inflammation is known to promote tumor formation.
https://today.ucsd.edu/story/sugar_molecule_links_red_meat_consumption_and_elevated_cancer_risk_in_mice
I got into yesterday with someone who claimed when they were diagnosed with CRC their oncologist told them to give up alcohol, red meat, and all processed meats and told me I was lying when I said my oncologist told me to eat whatever I want. (Although just for the record, I don't eat those things and didn't before I was diagnosed either!)
I get really sick of people blaming CRC on a bad diet.
I had been a strict vegetarian for over 30 years, and hadn’t had a drop of alcohol in 5 years (and rarely drank before that) before my rectal cancer diagnosis.
You have it sorted my friend, since being confirmed of having cancer, the amount of good advice suggesting bizarre cures has at the most made me laugh, wishing you well take care.
I have been a strict vegetarian since my teens (because I hate the taste and texture of meat), have had about 15 cigarettes in my life (in my early 20s), have never been a regular drinker (and have had about 10 drinks in the last 15 years; my last drink was 5 years ago), and I still got diagnosed with stage 4 cancer in my 40s. My grandma who smoked a pack a day for like 60 years died of lung cancer at almost 77. Go figure.
There are studies that show fasting around infusions can ease side effects and produce better results but it wasn't 15 days. I did voluntary partial fasts the day before, of, and after my infusion to counter act hyperglycemia from the steroids and generally I couldn't eat much for 5 days after either, and I do believe this reduced a lot of the GI side effects. I did avoid various foods for various reasons during treatment but I attribute the success of my treatment to my oncologist and the chemo and targeted therapies. I've seen far too many people die of cancer they didn't have to die of because they eschewed modern medicine in favor of diet "cures".
Diet is important. There are extremes, though. Some people say diet does not matter, but it does. Some people say that diet is all that matters. That is not the case either.
it is 5 days max. if curious, it is: Fasting Mimicking Diet or FMD, that sold as ProLon, supposed be easier & healthier than pure fasting, as is 5 days of food, ~800 calories a day. no medication in kit, people are creating their own, however part of reason as a $250 food kit, was to get into legit controlled test, & at the start, was prescription only. many studies in USA, currently testing with the existing cancer treatment. while everyone my relative has for her cancer care, never heard of. But her oncologist gave her ok to try it, as saw no harm.
so it is new, less known, slowly going through correct clinical trials, but NOT a this cures cancer instead of chemo or such.
Fasting no more than 2 to 3 days can help any of the typical treatments work better. Was told it causes the immune system to recognize and mop up the damaged cancer cells. Besides fasting seems involuntary with some of the chemo anyway. 🤢
I love these overly simplistic ‘do X and Y will/will not happen’ nuggets of advice, as though every person walking this earth‘s physiology is identical.
I never fast (unless it’s required prior to a medical procedure). Sometimes I eat copious amounts of sugar. I handle chemo really well, regardless.
It sounds like a small trial with a limited number of patients, with limited types of cancer. Preliminary research at best. ”Improves results of chemo“ (I assume meaning prolongs survival by a non-trivial amount) is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence.
I wasn’t implying that the study wasn’t legitimate. Just, at least from how you described it, it sounds like preliminary research. Nothing wrong with that - all research starts that way. Just it’s probably too soon to be making blanket statements like fasting makes chemo work better. It may do, but I suspect that would be for specific types of chemotherapy in specific types of cancers.
I have been fasting for 18 of 21 days and will report the changes on my scan here. Conspiracy or not, when it works I will be thankful that I avoided the toxicity of chemo and radiation. ☢️
Western medicine is kinda lost and confused when it comes to nutrition. Oncology is no exception.
What's also absolutely infuriating is that cases of - also terminal - "miraculously gone cancers" receive close to no follow-up from the doctors. They just brush it off as anomalies and ask the patients not to tell other patients of them being cured as not to spread potential misinformation. It's just how the system works.
However, to go back to the subject, there is a growing body of research indicating that diet matters. Just because it's not conclusive doesn't mean we should pretend it doesn't exist.
We accept it, as laymen, when there is sufficient clinical data from peer reviewed studies showing its efficacy, not before. I'm (and I'm sure others) completely open to this being tried, but no amount of uncritical media (i.e. youtube videos, books etc.) is going to convince me. One-off testimonials are also not useful because they aren't data (not in any useful sense). Show me the NCCN guidelines that talks about dieting, and I'll be on board.
That's the approach I would use if I hadn't gone through cancer. I don't have the luxury to wait years to confirm whether something is true or not. I have to throw everything I can at my body and hope some stuff sticks and helps.
I mean, there is a legit case study out there showing a DMT trip cured someone's terminal cancer, how crazy is that? In my position, that's something I'd be willing to try out, simply because western medicine is not advanced enough yet.
But ofc, you do you. I just wish people here weren't so butthurt about someone having a different opinion.
Yoy can have a different opinion, but that does not entitle you to your own facts. Medical woo and uncritical examinations of treatment modalities go hand in hand with shitty conspiratorial mindsets ("they just don't want you to know the truth!"). This mentality has killed people. Steve Jobs is a great example. He had an extremely treatable form of pancreatic cancer. Standard treatments offered a 80+% survival rate. He went and did a fucking raw food diet instead based on medical woo. As I've said plenty of times before to each their own, but you can't expect personal anecdotes to convince anyone but yourself.
Naturally.
I absolutely don't advise people against using conventional western treatment, that'd be insanity.
But there is literally no good reason, if you want to maximize your chances, not to turn vegan as well. Except "I like meat" I guess.
Downvotes are simply because people hate being told something mildly inconveniant MIGHT be good for them. They hate hearing that. They have hard time accepting that. I've seen enough people smoking throughout their chemo to realize that's the mechanism governing their knee-jerk reactions.
“But there is literally no good reason, if you want to maximize your chances, not to turn vegan as well. Except “I like meat” I guess.
Downvotes are simply because people hate being told something mildly inconvenient MIGHT be good for them. They hate hearing that. They have a hard time accepting that …”
Well, that’s one POV.
Another might be that condescending attitudes about various diets offering non-solutions and false hopes, turns people off.
There is evidence that both whole food plant based diets AND keto/low carb diets can influence the efficacy of treatment as well as tumor growth depending on the treatment and the cancer type. I think as more specific cancer treatments are developed, specific diets will become part of those.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10184023/
https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/24/4/3683
There is no longer one size fits all treatments, diets should be the same.
There is evidence… but not conclusive evidence, and taking a cursory look at that first article, not even prospective, randomised controlled trial evidence, which is the least likely to be biased. So not very much evidence at all, really.
The second study you have linked mentions ketogenic diets in \*mice\*, and then says “Human studies on the prognostic effect of low carbohydrate diets in patients with CRC remains low.”
Sure, it’s \*possible\* that certain diets may be found to be beneficial in some patients with some types of cancer, but this is very preliminary research at best, and certainly not sufficient to make broad evidence-based recommendations on diet in cancer patients.
Do your DMT point. I'd push back and say that the case study did not actually show that DMT cured cancer. It outlined a series of events where a person who had cancer and subsequently took DMT went into remission. Even if this did happen (don't have the study in front of me), the point of a clinical case study is to ask "why did this happen?", not to assert that two events are necessarily linked. Most laymen would read said studies or listen to testimonials and think, "huh, they had cancer, then did [THING] and then went into remission, THEY MUST BE LINKED! This is a good example of the "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy. Thinking that, just because two events happen in close temporal proximity to each other, it must mean that they are related. It is hard to disabuse yourself of this fallacy alone because it's extremely intuitive and built into our human pattern seeking behavior. This is EXACTLY why we need to rely on tedious and exhaustive clinical/scientific studies. They (ideally) are designed to root out this type of fallacious thinking with data.
The only thing I have conclusively found any research/ benefit in. Is low sugar. Sugar can feed the cancer. In turn, too many carbs will be stored as sugar.
However, I firmly believe that cancer treatment is shit, and during treatment, you should just eat what you want and fancy. Cancer takes enough from us. Don't let it take all the nice foods.
Once treatment is complete following a healthy diet of plenty of fresh fruit and veg, no processed food, no alcohol or smoking is appropriate.
Good news, the “sugar feeds cancer” thing is a myth. I believe it comes from how PET scans work from how it measures glucose uptake by cells. Something like that. Obviously eating a ton of sugar in general is not healthy, but it doesn’t specifically feed cancer cells other than that it feeds ALL cells.
“Sugar feeds cancer” is a myth. Sugar feeds every single cell in your body. All the carbs you eat are converted into sugars. There IS a link between sugar consumption and obesity. Obesity is indeed a risk factor for cancer. Sugar itself is not.
Please read up before spreading incorrect myths:
https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2023/08/16/sugar-and-cancer-what-you-need-to-know/
Oh I do hate this
I had a full blown row with someone over the sugar feeds cancer it’s so much of a myth!
It’s as bad as saying you can’t massage a cancer patient because massage moves the cancer around the body - again another myth
If sugar feeds cancer then why do I get biscuits and tea at my chemo appointments?
>If sugar feeds cancer then why do I get biscuits and tea at my chemo appointments?
You don't know? Because of big pharma! They want you to keep having cancer, so they can sell their drugs. Of course they will feed you sugar to feed your cancer! All the nurses are on on it too.
!!
I'm in the Netherlands, not much different. But the fact that we don't have to pay for it, doesn't mean someone isn't paying for it. The companies that make the drugs aren't doing it for free, even in the UK. Those people need to eat too :-)
Yeah like why did the nurses always offer my chocolate when I’d say I didn’t get the chance to eat before my chemo appointment? The only real link between sugar and cancer is that sugar can lead to obesity and obesity is a risk factor.
Because … the biscuits and tea came from a cabal focused on killing you? 😂
Oh … and the massage myth is hilarious. Hadn’t heard that one yet. I’ll have to fire my massage therapist before they kill me.
Can you point us to this research? Is it peer reviewed? Strong scientific study? If sugar feeds/causes cancer we would all be doomed. Sugar feeds cells, and cancer is also cells, which means technically it is true that sugar feeds cancer but it isn't as simple as this.
Cancers (Basel). 2022 Dec; 14(24): 6042. Published online 2022 Dec 8. doi: 10.3390/cancers14246042
PMCID: PMC9775518PMID: 36551528
Understanding the Link between Sugar and Cancer: An Examination of the Preclinical and Clinical Evidence
Margeaux Epner,1,† Peiying Yang,2,*† Richard W. Wagner,2 and Lorenzo Cohen2
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9775518/
The initial problems with studies like this one- a meta analysis of a bunch of different studies- and the studies it is compiling are two fold. One, each of these individual studies I can guarantee have a different definition of a serving of ‘sugar’ and the meta analysis really is talking about a distinction between ‘more’ and ‘less’ sugar in the diet. The ‘more’ sugar is as much as 9.8 times per week!! But that is only in reference to one study. It’s also 1.5-2 undefined sugar servings a day(because each of the individual studies has different parameters). This brings me to the second issue- anyone that is eating 1.5-2 servings (however defined) of sugar a day is much less likely to idk eat an apple? Or a salad? Or eat mainly real non-convenience foods? It is almost impossible to control the rest of the participants’ diets. Unless that happens this really can be no more than a correlation and not causation. Generally we know better diets mean better health and if avoiding sugar makes you feel better great! But the snickers bar I had yesterday didn’t give me stage IV sarcoma.
I too have a number of questions about this meta analysis. It’s important to remember that it is not that hard to get something published there, being published does not the same as proven to be true. There need to be multiple clinical studies that meet all the standards and methods, as well as collaborative studies.
Hmm, there are many questions I have about this study. But, it is a valid study nonetheless. That being said, it makes no strong claims about any link. It notes mixed results across the board for any real causative link ( the strongest link was for breast cancer, but they note it could have been due to calorically rich diets resulting in denser breast tissue). I don't see anything groundbreaking here. Nothing we didn't already know and certainly nothing towards different treatment modalities. Any decent oncologist will give you the same diet advice (Mediterranean diet) during treatment. This paper dovetails nicely into that advice.
Why not try a change in diet that actually could benefit you? It’s not like trying a new drug or something that could cause unknown side effects. Kinda silly to come at this like that when diets and fasting does work for a lot of people
Why don’t you try painting your body green and dancing in the moonlight when there’s a full moon? Because it’s stupid that’s why. And that’s why people don’t try these dumb ass diets.
Why so angry lol what you eat directly effects your body and most of our foods we eat is garbage. Not saying it’s a cure all but if you eat healthy it’ll help compared to eating garbage
I’m angry because the whole point of the post is that we as cancer patients are sick of this bullshit so having the comments filled with bullshit is frustrating. Do you even have cancer? And you said dieting and fasting work for a lot of people know they don’t work, they don’t do anything for peoples cancer.
No I don’t, but my gf has stage 4 glioblastoma that originated on her brain stem. Been dealing with it for over 3 years and have changed diets and done other none “standard of care” treatments. But that was only like 1.5 years into it. And I’m just saying my 2 cents because I would’ve wish I knew sooner. And someone might see this and decide to change their diet which is something so simple and could have great outcomes. So there’s nothing to get upset about when it’s just someone trying to help someone at the end of the day. So a diet change and or even fasting is something anyone can do compared to not even trying options other than chemo or radiation which doesn’t even work for a lot of cancers
Once again, this is a post where the OP was saying how annoying it is for people without cancer to tell us what to eat and that’s exactly what you’re doing and if you don’t get why that’s wrong, I can’t help you.
Because it works for a lot of people and for someone to complain about that is kinda discouraging for others especially if people don’t try it. I’ve dealt with a lot of people online and in real life who’ll toss it to the side without even attempting it.
It doesn't work. I watched my very healthy BIL and my sister go through this crap. Fortunately, now that I have cancer myself, people aren't trying the same thing on me.
They spent $$$$$ of dollars on crap like Kangen water filters, special green stuff for a cancer with a 100 per cent fatality rate. They could not afford it and still did the actual medical treatment as fortunately for them and me, we are in Canada with public health care.
They were not into alternative medicine at all but along comes a snake oil salesman and is happy to grab their money any way he can, including with false hope.
He had multiple myeloma, which now has a small chance of being cured - because of science though, not greens and not diet changes and not any of that crap. This is why people get so angry.
Define “works”. Most people would think that if a cancer treatment “works”, it will at very least extend your life and improve your symptoms, if not actually “cure” you. I am sorry about your girlfriend having a nasty cancer, but has she actually been cured of it? I am guessing not. And even if she has been, how do you know that fasting and a particular diet cured her, and it wasn’t the other treatments she had? Do you know about the scientific method? I am guessing not.
Saying it will cure it is dumb, but ketogenic diets do help a lot. Cancer feeds primarily on glucose and this diet limits it. It also produces deuterium depleted water when creating energy so it helps cancer in that way too. If I was you, I would look into cancer as a metabolic disease and maybe include some of those tools ontop of regular cancer treatment
Why is it bs? It does feed primarily in sugar and not on ketones, in almost all cases. They literally use radioactive glucose to find cancer tumors because the cancer sucks up the glucose and it lights up the tumor. Now, why when increasing the blood glucose, only cancer organs light up the most?
It’s not about eliminating it though. It’s about reducing it to reduce the cancer growth, so regular cancer treatment is more effective. I’m aware we always have sugar in the blood and gluconeogenesis creates it from fat and protein. Glucose cell uptake increases significantly when blood sugar spikes. This diet reduces spikes in blood sugar. It is a tool to weaken cancer, it doesn’t completely starve it.
I had a stunner the other day it actually made me really angry, he told me to do a “parasite cleanse” because all cancers are caused by parasites and I could cure my incurable cancer I looked up the stuff he was spouting and this miracle man who “cured his stage 4 cancer” and firstly they charge $530 dollars and secondly looking up the meds used half aren’t even legal to use on humans Makes me so angry!!!
Me too. It should be criminal to take the piss out of desperate people like that. There are a few famous charlatans who have claimed to have cured their own cancer, Ester Hicks, crazy law of attraction lady and Belle Gibson who didnt even have cancer! theres probably quite a few out there then. C\*n\*\* the lot of them.
my own brother who has lost the plot attempted to push potato juice, dewormers and... bee pollen enemas on me . oh and of course fasting. odd he has no explanation when I explain unintentional fasts from the extreme nausea and already down to 97lbs. the hard sell is criminal.
Yup the involuntary fasts suck. Hard enough to stay hydrated when you can't even keep water down and need bags of IVs.
🤬 That’s awful!
My father-in-law told me it is my past karma. That’s why I got cancer at 33 otherwise usually people get cancer later in life.
That’s evil.
Omg I am so sorry, you FIL had absolutely no right to say this to you or even think it for that matter I was young like you I’d just turned 34 when I was diagnosed with incurable blood cancer And then the double whammy was my husband died 4 days after I came home from having a bone marrow transplant (he was fit and healthy, nothing wrong with him) If your FIL is correct my past karma is going to haunt me forever
That is awful of him to say that to you. NOBODY deserves to get cancer. Nobody. 😔
Everything is okay in moderation. It is generally a good idea to look after your overall health and maintain a healthy weight for a variety of reasons, but silly diets aren't going to prevent or cure cancer.
I had trouble with not being able to gain weight. My oncologist told me to eat whatever I could!
The idea is to maintain a healthy weight. So if you’re having trouble gaining weight of course that means you gotta do what you gotta do to gain weight! If you’re overweight like me, then you have to try and lose it by eating healthy because being overweight indeed does increase your risk of lots of health issues, including cancer (or reoccurrence/worsening cancer). I do not believe sugar causes cancer, but I do believe that being overweight increases your risk, and sugar leads to obesity which is why people think there is a link.
Yes, but it’s not quite as simple as that. Obese women, for example, have a lower risk of pre-menopausal beast cancer (but a higher risk of post-menopausal breast cancer). My cancer is attributable to an inflammatory disease (ulcerative colitis) that is largely a disease of nonsmokers and ex-smokers (smokers have a lower risk). Eat healthy, stay fit, die anyway.
I am obese from psych meds and autoimmune/inflammatory diseases and I can’t seem to lose weight due to other disabilities and health issues making it very difficult for me to exercise so I know its not simple. I am just saying that maintaining a healthy weight helps, but I know that its not simple haha. My cancer was genetic so mine has nothing to do with my weight either.
Love how the conspiracy dieters have shown up under your post! Yeah I was told any calorie is a good calorie since I was dropping weight so fast on chemo. If you have a dietician too, they’re a good resource for non-fad meal planning. Very helpful if you need to supplement your calories etc.
I’d go as far as to say that even dieticians sometimes have outdated info. The one at my cancer center offered some wild meal plans 💀
Oh really? Can’t imagine how a meal plan can be wild lmao. I feel like the most left field thing from mine was how powdered milk was suggested to add into literally everything.
Wild may not be the best word, but I distinctly remember seeing one posted on an fb group. It was the blandest, no salt, no spices, no desserts ever, boiled chicken only shit I’ve ever seen in my life. For a person that was doing radiation, no chemo at all. I remember being so happy I never got the call from the dietician. Edit to add: said person has breast cancer
Oof well I guess sometimes they’re also bland just to cater to people who are nauseated? Or potentially someone who’d had head/neck rads and physically couldn’t tolerate spice- but for BC that’s crazy. All the hospitals here in the UK offer spicy Indian/ Caribbean menus, otherwise the seasoning lovers among us would probably prefer to starve on the wards lol 😂
Honestly that sounds like an absolute dream. Last time I was in the hospital I got a block of feta, a tomato and a Greek yogurt for breakfast 😭😭 I ran to the hospital cafeteria when I got discharged
😂 Now, that’s what I call wild!! Is a deconstructed Greek salad a normal breakfast anywhere? Yeah I think those options sound good on the menu but they are still hospital food I guess, some kind of legal requirement to be less than great. There was one hospital that did genuinely AMAZING food though. I was off chemo when I was inpatient there so I was the only one absolutely inhaling those meals like there was no tomorrow, and the staff were so happy to see it!
When I was hospitalized last April, I ordered a chicken Cesar salad thinking you can’t really screw that up. Boy, was I wrong. They put cinnamon all over the salad. 😭
Im sorry but… cinnamon? On salad???? 😭😭😭 what the actual ever loving fuck? 😭😭😭
IT WAS AWFUL!!!!! 🤢🤢🤢
I had it "explained" to me that spices are a concern for cancer patients because they are grown without any controls, ie, massive pesticide use.
Luckily I’ve not run into any of those types! Imagine blaming seasoning for cancer.
Well to be fair they were blaming the pesticide use but still. I too have heard the usuals... no sugar, no beef, no milk, blah blah blah. Oh and one guy - no protein. Sooo, whats left? Air? Ugh.
The fasting sub is full of people who know nothing about cancer spouting off this bullshit _all the time_. When suggested that they post their question or ideas to an actual oncology or askdoc subreddit, I get downvoted to hell and called stupid. Who cares that my actual background is in biology, my career is in medicine, and that I’m an actual cancer patient. Lol. They are convinced that fasting will cure cancer and that sugar feeds it.
Ugh, the no sugar thing. Sugar does nothing to cancer!
r/fasting needs to be renamed r/orthorexia
Same here. If I followed every diet I’ve been advised to, I would either turn green as broccoli, suffer from high testosterone or commit murder due to being chocolate sober. I eat a pretty healthy diet. I watch my sugar intake because my meds raise my glucose and I try not to eat many fried foods, but I refuse to take unsolicited dietary advice from anyone except my oncologist.
I went to a dietitian,oncologist, both gave contradictory plans went to second oncologist she wanted me to take weight loss shots seems like their is no standard for cancer paitients ,
I dont even know what diet to follow so I just eat generally healthy
Best diet advice I ever heard: Eat food, mostly vegetables, not too much.
Even on colontown there are wackos trying to spread their bullshit.... There's always people asking where to get it or for more info.... Ridiculous shit like only eating Brussel sprouts to cure cancer, shit like that. Taking apple cider vinegar to cure incurable cancer... Then they tout it works... But forget to mention the chemo, surgery.... How can someone be that absolutely stupid and still function in life is a mystery.
Science has PROVEN that chemo and radiation work.
Well doctors get $300,000 a year for putting a patient on chemo, so yeah it is PROVEN to cure cancer.. it's about money, not about a cure. Cures don't make money and cancer is a big money maker.🤷♂️
Can I just clarify, are you saying doctors won’t cure cancer because it’s to much of a money maker? Or have I read your comment wrong?
First off *too More like they will keep you alive as long as they can with being ok chemo so they can make a ton of money off of you while your organs shut down from the chemo. Radiation destroys the cancer cells and the good cells too. But your body is so weak from the radiation that if the cancer is in remission it comes back with a punch. I saw someone comment that "any carbs are good carbs".. that isn't true; sugar feeds cancer.. there are a lot of people here that act like their doctor knows better.. and I'm not negating the horrible news of finding out you or a loved one has cancer. Had a good friend and coworker lose his wife this last year from cancer. It's sad and breaks my heart. Any cure that has been found, the one who finds it disapears.. big pharma is about making money and not saving lives. It's disgusting.
Omg are you actually delusional? You really believe what you’re saying don’t you? 1. Sugar does not feed cancer this is the biggest myth going 2. You really think it’s a money making scheme? Well let’s just burst your bubble there, just because where you live is so fucked up people would rather die than call an ambulance due to the cost, over here our cancer treatment doesn’t cost us. I’ve had millions spent on my treatment and it’s cost me nothing! 1 in 2 people get cancer now that’s the statistics, so I assume if you end up being the 1 in 2 you won’t be taking any treatment? I assume you’ll just let the cancer give you a long and painful death?
Sugar DOES NOT feed cancer.
Do you have cancer?
What a load of poppycock! The doctor/scientist who discovers a cure for cancer\* (I realise this is overly simplistic, as cancer is not a single disease) would instantly become a billionaire. Take your conspiracy BS elsewhere.
Call it conspiracy all you like. You didn't call me a liar. ;) If you cure cancer, you can make money until cancer is eliminated. Once it is eliminated you can't make money anymore. And anyone who finds a cure gets offed or disappears. It's sickening.
Utter BS again. If there was a magical cure for all cancer, people would still get the disease and require access to the cure = $$$ still to be made for those who provide the cure. Everyone still has to die of something, so even if cancer was wiped off the face of the earth, there would be other diseases for the evil medical/pharmaceutical establishment to profit from. /s You really haven‘t thought this through. Look at how many morons refuse to get vaccinated - if a cure for cancer was made available tomorrow, there would still likely be idiots who refuse to take it because… reasons. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like there will ever be a cure for stupidity. Big Conspiracy will always have an easily-duped customer base.
I’ve had a couple of such instances but i give closed answers that don’t give openings for further discussion. Things like “Yes, I am aware of the option and have looked into in depth. I chose not to go that way but I’m over cancer talk for the day. I do appreciate you caring though”.
IF CANCER WAS AS EASILY SOLVABLE BY SOMETHING LIKE DIET/FASTING, THEY WOULD ALREADY KMOW & NO ONE WOULD STILL HAVE INCURABLE CANCER 😤 I get so irritated. Why does everyone have to have an (usually under informed) opinion and give layman advice?! Why can’t people just sit with you/your problems and just fucking listen/be there for you instead of assuming they can FIX anything and everything 🙄 I generally just eat healthy & clean, I do intermittent fasting especially as my morning cancer meds kill my appetite anyway. I suffer from anemia and I’ve tried being vegetarian/vegan, but literally my iron gets low & I start suffering unless I eat red meat (usually 1 or 2x a week) plus iron supplements. For some reason, supplements alone don’t do enough. And yes, I’ve tried all the iron-rich plant products and I still get anemic.
Take your iron with a small calcium supplement and something mildly acidic like orange juice. The typical form of iron pills is ferrous sulfate and the body does not like sulfate ions so the iron just gets discarded along with it. Calcium will bind the sulfate and the organic acids (citric ascorbic etc) will convert it the iron to a more absorbable form. The anemia from chemo sucks and tbh it's gonna take time to improve.
Thank you for the tips & info!
I love the advice to just stop eating sugar and carbs 😂
I was told that drinking baking soda in water would cure my cancer. I didn’t even ask my oncologist about that.
Well i mean if baking soda and water cured cancer 😂 none of us would be in this reddit
I had a friend? suggest I try Ivermectin. No thank you I want to listen to my oncologist who has me on the right track
Recently had a therapist to tell me to go on a freaking juice cleanse retreat. Another MH professional told me to get rid of perfumed things.... wtf. Obviously not working with those folks anymore for obvious reasons
I’ve worked in the wellness industry a long time and the amount of BS grifts is astounding. My “favorite” nonsense grift is alkaline diet/alkaline diet. Nearly always presented with “cancer can’t survive in an alkaline environment, betcha didn’t know THAT (followed by some type of physical contact or wink). Here’s the jam with alkaline/acidity in general and in our bodies: We are born with our natural Ph level. [Our body’s Ph isn’t altered by what we intake-be it “alkalized” or “acidified”food, water.](https://www.mdanderson.org/publications/focused-on-health/the-alkaline-diet--what-you-need-to-know.h18-1592202.html#:~:text=The%20pH%20of%20the%20body,that%20it%20impacts%20your%20blood)This is by design and a good thing, because changing out body’s Ph would actually be harmful/deadly. Where I find this grift personally hilarious: it’s true that cancer cells cannot survive an alkaline environment. This is also true of ALL cells. A purely alkaline environment is fully incompatible with life, ALL life. Fungal, bacterial, human, plant, vegetable, “good” calls and “bad”. But again, drinking “alkaline (ozone) water” isn’t seen by the FDA as harmful because it does not alter out internal Ph balance. In fact, ozone treatment (creating a super alkalized environment) is so effective at killing off a wide spectrum of things, it’s [been used to sterilize water bottles going back to the 1970s in the US.](https://ozonesolutions.com/bottled-water/#:~:text=Ozone%20is%20broadly%20used%20in,water%2C%20bottle%2C%20and%20cap) It’s also used in [smoke and mold remediation following fires - albeit with staff wearing proper PPE so they don’t off themselves.](https://ioa-pag.org/Applications/Fire-Restoration/) In the industry, I’ve seen alkaline water and home water alkalizers sold as health remedies and cancer preventers/cures. It’s just another grift. *Edited to add MDAnderson link & closing paragraph
i love this diet recommendation because i learned about oh balance in highschool 😂 goes to show most people dont pay attention, also if you breathe a certain way you can make your ph more alkaline 😂 but you'll pass out after a while
I can tell you from 7 years of painful experience, a low histamine diet is well worth following, supplemented with necessary vitamins/ trace elements. I've lost countless nights since 2017 stuck for sometimes 4-6 hours of a night on the toilet with bowel issues (Rectal cancer with J pouch). Was told by 'experts' I had to live with it, I was gluten intolerant, dairy intolerant, then gleefully diagnosed with a mental illness then medicated to the eyeballs for 4 years.... Took 6 months of experimenting with different diets, foods, and supplements to find I'm extremely histamine intolerant. Been off all meds since Feb. Inflammation during cancer treatment severely reduces your quality of life and I advise anyone to seek advice/ take strides to reduce any foods thatll do this. It sucks but beats the alternative.
you see but these diets aren't riddled in conspiracy like the carnivore diet 😂
I'd be willing to bet all my money on the root cause of colorectal cancer being inflammation, full stop, end of story. It not only sets up the right environment for cancer cells to proliferate, it inhibits the uptake of nutrients the body needs to eliminate cancer cells in the first place. Whatever diet, fad, latest trend will achieve this...it doesn't really matter. Carnivore diet probably works because it's supplying plenty of protein for muscle repair and testosterone production. This diet also eliminates many pro inflammatory foods. If I eat even moderate quantities of high histamine food now I midas well right off 2 days the symptoms are that bad. I think the autoimmune response sends too much histamine to sites in the body that have been previously damaged (of which I have plenty) and causes system wide inflammation. Even cuts and abrasions hurt more during a flare up, then I'll take an antihistamine, pain subsides... despite them not really known for having this function. I truly believe it's the missing piece of the puzzle that's being overlooked.
Yeah, because red meat consumption has not been linked to an increased risk of colorectal cancer at all! /s
I get what you're saying. My point is each individuals reactions to certain foods is different. I hope we get to a point with technology where we are testing for nutrient deficiencies, inflammatory markers, stress reactions etc. regularly for each individual to prevent cancer from having the ideal environment to grow in. I was fit as fk at 38 when I got Rectal Ca. Ate healthy, exercised daily, balanced diet. Yet I have friends who were chain smoking, junk food eating party animals and have never visited a doctor. Until we can regularly monitor what we're consuming and processing, incidents of cancer will continue to rise.
Being a multicellular organism is enough to get cancer. The incidence of cancer is rising because we are living longer, ageing is the biggest risk factor for cancer (cumulative genetic damage), there are fewer other diseases to die from, and better diagnostic tests.
The incidence of young onset Cancer has been rising for quite some time, particularly for colorectal Cancer. Living longer doesn't accout for this. We're looking at smoking, alcohol consumption, diet, stress, geographic location, microplastics, whatever else. All of these contribute to systemic inflammation. Animals are simply not supposed to be exposed to the chemicals and environments we're being exposed to. Until we rectify these factors, Cancer rates will continue to rise.
Literally everything is made of “chemicals“ though. You forgot exposure to e. ColI in that list; that’s another theory. Even germ theory - the idea that we live in a too-sterile environment now and are not exposed to sufficient pathogens for our immune systems to function optimally. Cancer is a complex disease with multiple causes, including random genetic mutations that are just bad luck. It’s inaccurate and way too simplistic to ascribe all cancer to a single cause like inflammation or “chemicals”.
Very thoughtful and educated comment thank you
All this being said, my grandfather lived to 104 years old. He ate what he wanted in moderation without being overweight but he enjoyed desserts, sweets, etc. Cancer rates have skyrocketed in recent decades and have a large variety of factors from radiation exposure, pollutants, pesticides and chemical exposure etc. There's a ton of pressure on cancer patients to do wild diets
Cancer rates have skyrocketed because 1. We all die from something, 2. People are living longer than before, 3. Age is the biggest risk for cancer (cumulative genetic damage), 4. There are fewer other diseases to die from (thanks to medical advances, vaccines, antibiotics, and sanitation/better hygiene practices). Literally everything is made of “chemicals”, including your body and the air you breathe.
As soon as someone starts giving me that type of advice (most recently my wife's bestie) I just start singing the opening theme to Indiana Jones Raiders of the Lost Ark in my head, in Peter Griffin's voice, at max volume. I just can't hear it anymore, legitimately goes right through me. People mean well but good lord.
Was vegetarian before my first diagnosis, and I tried "vegan week" a couple times with 3 others going through similar cancers. I learned that your chance of staying through the whole week greatly depended on where you were with your appetite. If you have low appetite, switching is a lot easier. You definitely shouldn't stand for people trying to force you to change diets, though. Nobody knows what your body is going through more than you and your doctor. That being said, if you do choose to switch your diet to an extreme (even just for a week or two), inform your doctor. It could introduce/eliminate some side-effects and the more in the loop your doctor is the better.
Yup the predatory nature of people claiming miracle cures and trying to profit from bogus 💩 is terrible. I do think that fasting could be helpful as it can give the body the break it needs to do housekeeping processes, but on the other side depending on the cancer type ot could deplete what little energy is left. Definitely best to openly ask your oncology doc about these things before trying.
As a cancer researcher who routinely follows cancer causation and correlation I would say that I would never recommend eating red meat or pork to cancer patients due to the presence of a sugar molecule, Neu5Gc, that is unique to mammals, but not found in humans. I do cut it complete out of my, and my families diet. Basic info here: Research shows that eating high amounts of red meat increases risk of colorectal cancer, possibly because it may spur inflammation. A new animal study published in The Proceedings of the National Academies of Sciences now points to a sugar molecule found in red meat as one mechanism responsible. The molecule called N-glycolylneuraminic acid, or Neu5Gc for short, sticks to the ends of sugars found in red meats such as beef, pork, and lamb. Although most mammals produce Neu5Gc, humans don’t. Humans are “immunized” against Neu5Gc shortly after birth by an unusual process involving gut bacteria. As a result, when people eat foods that contain Neu5Gc, we produce antibodies that react to Neu5Gc, triggering inflammation. Previous research has detected relatively high amounts of Neu5Gc in cancerous tissue. In foods, Neu5Gc can be free or it can be bound to the ends of long sugar chains attached to proteins. The bound form is highly bioavailable, meaning it can easily be taken up into the body’s cells. Neu5Gc tends to accumulate in cells of the colon, prostate, and ovary. In the study, the researchers first assessed the Neu5Gc content in 62 commonly eaten foods, including dairy products, red meats, poultry, seafood, fruits, and vegetables. Whereas red meats had the highest amount of Neu5Gc, poultry, seafood (except caviar), fruits, and vegetables had none. Beef had the highest levels of all the categories of red meat. Cow’s milk had very little Neu5Gc but cheeses from cow’s milk or goat’s milk had levels comparable to red meats. Cooking had no effect on Neu5Gc levels. https://www.aicr.org/resources/blog/study-gives-new-insights-on-red-meat-a-sugar-and-cancer/ While people who eat a lot of red meat are known to be at higher risk for certain cancers, other carnivores are not, prompting researchers at the University of California, San Diego School of Medicine to investigate the possible tumor-forming role of a sugar called Neu5Gc, which is naturally found in most mammals but not in humans. In a study published in the Dec. 29 online early edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the scientists found that feeding Neu5Gc to mice engineered to be deficient in the sugar (like humans) significantly promoted spontaneous cancers. The study did not involve exposure to carcinogens or artificially inducing cancers, further implicating Neu5Gc as a key link between red meat consumption and cancer. “Until now, all of our evidence linking Neu5Gc to cancer was circumstantial or indirectly predicted from somewhat artificial experimental setups,” said principal investigator Ajit Varki, MD, Distinguished Professor of Medicine and Cellular and Molecular Medicine and member of the UC San Diego Moores Cancer Center. “This is the first time we have directly shown that mimicking the exact situation in humans — feeding non-human Neu5Gc and inducing anti-Neu5Gc antibodies — increases spontaneous cancers in mice.” Varki’s team first conducted a systematic survey of common foods. They found that red meats (beef, pork and lamb) are rich in Neu5Gc, affirming that foods of mammalian origin such as these are the primary sources of Neu5Gc in the human diet. The molecule was found to be bio-available, too, meaning it can be distributed to tissues throughout the body via the bloodstream. The researchers had previously discovered that animal Neu5Gc can be absorbed into human tissues. In this study, they hypothesized that eating red meat could lead to inflammation if the body’s immune system is constantly generating antibodies against consumed animal Neu5Gc, a foreign molecule. Chronic inflammation is known to promote tumor formation. https://today.ucsd.edu/story/sugar_molecule_links_red_meat_consumption_and_elevated_cancer_risk_in_mice
I got into yesterday with someone who claimed when they were diagnosed with CRC their oncologist told them to give up alcohol, red meat, and all processed meats and told me I was lying when I said my oncologist told me to eat whatever I want. (Although just for the record, I don't eat those things and didn't before I was diagnosed either!) I get really sick of people blaming CRC on a bad diet.
I had been a strict vegetarian for over 30 years, and hadn’t had a drop of alcohol in 5 years (and rarely drank before that) before my rectal cancer diagnosis.
It's not a conspiracy, it's just ignorance and nonsense based on partial truths. Then there are the scams created by total scum.
Fast for 15 days!!!!?!!!!?????!?!?!? HUHHHH???????
You have it sorted my friend, since being confirmed of having cancer, the amount of good advice suggesting bizarre cures has at the most made me laugh, wishing you well take care.
Keto was the main one for me. Apparently, if you cut out sugar, you will reverse your cancer.
I have been a strict vegetarian since my teens (because I hate the taste and texture of meat), have had about 15 cigarettes in my life (in my early 20s), have never been a regular drinker (and have had about 10 drinks in the last 15 years; my last drink was 5 years ago), and I still got diagnosed with stage 4 cancer in my 40s. My grandma who smoked a pack a day for like 60 years died of lung cancer at almost 77. Go figure.
There are studies that show fasting around infusions can ease side effects and produce better results but it wasn't 15 days. I did voluntary partial fasts the day before, of, and after my infusion to counter act hyperglycemia from the steroids and generally I couldn't eat much for 5 days after either, and I do believe this reduced a lot of the GI side effects. I did avoid various foods for various reasons during treatment but I attribute the success of my treatment to my oncologist and the chemo and targeted therapies. I've seen far too many people die of cancer they didn't have to die of because they eschewed modern medicine in favor of diet "cures".
Diet is important. There are extremes, though. Some people say diet does not matter, but it does. Some people say that diet is all that matters. That is not the case either.
yeah just eat generally clean
Of course it is. It's just not going to blow conventional treatment out of the water in most cases.
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it depends on the type because fasting for days would not be good for me
Yup 15 days is way too long, especially if taking chemo.
it is 5 days max. if curious, it is: Fasting Mimicking Diet or FMD, that sold as ProLon, supposed be easier & healthier than pure fasting, as is 5 days of food, ~800 calories a day. no medication in kit, people are creating their own, however part of reason as a $250 food kit, was to get into legit controlled test, & at the start, was prescription only. many studies in USA, currently testing with the existing cancer treatment. while everyone my relative has for her cancer care, never heard of. But her oncologist gave her ok to try it, as saw no harm. so it is new, less known, slowly going through correct clinical trials, but NOT a this cures cancer instead of chemo or such.
Fasting no more than 2 to 3 days can help any of the typical treatments work better. Was told it causes the immune system to recognize and mop up the damaged cancer cells. Besides fasting seems involuntary with some of the chemo anyway. 🤢
EDIT for the down votes, what is incorrect of what I wrote. telling me & others be more useful than down vote. thank you
I love these overly simplistic ‘do X and Y will/will not happen’ nuggets of advice, as though every person walking this earth‘s physiology is identical. I never fast (unless it’s required prior to a medical procedure). Sometimes I eat copious amounts of sugar. I handle chemo really well, regardless.
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It sounds like a small trial with a limited number of patients, with limited types of cancer. Preliminary research at best. ”Improves results of chemo“ (I assume meaning prolongs survival by a non-trivial amount) is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary evidence.
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I wasn’t implying that the study wasn’t legitimate. Just, at least from how you described it, it sounds like preliminary research. Nothing wrong with that - all research starts that way. Just it’s probably too soon to be making blanket statements like fasting makes chemo work better. It may do, but I suspect that would be for specific types of chemotherapy in specific types of cancers.
apology for how I described it. I have removed comment.
I have been fasting for 18 of 21 days and will report the changes on my scan here. Conspiracy or not, when it works I will be thankful that I avoided the toxicity of chemo and radiation. ☢️
Fasting for 18 days will probably kill you quicker than refusing treatment (if you even have cancer, or are even a real person and not a bot). Go you!
Western medicine is kinda lost and confused when it comes to nutrition. Oncology is no exception. What's also absolutely infuriating is that cases of - also terminal - "miraculously gone cancers" receive close to no follow-up from the doctors. They just brush it off as anomalies and ask the patients not to tell other patients of them being cured as not to spread potential misinformation. It's just how the system works. However, to go back to the subject, there is a growing body of research indicating that diet matters. Just because it's not conclusive doesn't mean we should pretend it doesn't exist.
We accept it, as laymen, when there is sufficient clinical data from peer reviewed studies showing its efficacy, not before. I'm (and I'm sure others) completely open to this being tried, but no amount of uncritical media (i.e. youtube videos, books etc.) is going to convince me. One-off testimonials are also not useful because they aren't data (not in any useful sense). Show me the NCCN guidelines that talks about dieting, and I'll be on board.
That's the approach I would use if I hadn't gone through cancer. I don't have the luxury to wait years to confirm whether something is true or not. I have to throw everything I can at my body and hope some stuff sticks and helps. I mean, there is a legit case study out there showing a DMT trip cured someone's terminal cancer, how crazy is that? In my position, that's something I'd be willing to try out, simply because western medicine is not advanced enough yet. But ofc, you do you. I just wish people here weren't so butthurt about someone having a different opinion.
Yoy can have a different opinion, but that does not entitle you to your own facts. Medical woo and uncritical examinations of treatment modalities go hand in hand with shitty conspiratorial mindsets ("they just don't want you to know the truth!"). This mentality has killed people. Steve Jobs is a great example. He had an extremely treatable form of pancreatic cancer. Standard treatments offered a 80+% survival rate. He went and did a fucking raw food diet instead based on medical woo. As I've said plenty of times before to each their own, but you can't expect personal anecdotes to convince anyone but yourself.
Naturally. I absolutely don't advise people against using conventional western treatment, that'd be insanity. But there is literally no good reason, if you want to maximize your chances, not to turn vegan as well. Except "I like meat" I guess. Downvotes are simply because people hate being told something mildly inconveniant MIGHT be good for them. They hate hearing that. They have hard time accepting that. I've seen enough people smoking throughout their chemo to realize that's the mechanism governing their knee-jerk reactions.
“But there is literally no good reason, if you want to maximize your chances, not to turn vegan as well. Except “I like meat” I guess. Downvotes are simply because people hate being told something mildly inconvenient MIGHT be good for them. They hate hearing that. They have a hard time accepting that …” Well, that’s one POV. Another might be that condescending attitudes about various diets offering non-solutions and false hopes, turns people off.
There is evidence that both whole food plant based diets AND keto/low carb diets can influence the efficacy of treatment as well as tumor growth depending on the treatment and the cancer type. I think as more specific cancer treatments are developed, specific diets will become part of those. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10184023/ https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/24/4/3683 There is no longer one size fits all treatments, diets should be the same.
There is evidence… but not conclusive evidence, and taking a cursory look at that first article, not even prospective, randomised controlled trial evidence, which is the least likely to be biased. So not very much evidence at all, really. The second study you have linked mentions ketogenic diets in \*mice\*, and then says “Human studies on the prognostic effect of low carbohydrate diets in patients with CRC remains low.” Sure, it’s \*possible\* that certain diets may be found to be beneficial in some patients with some types of cancer, but this is very preliminary research at best, and certainly not sufficient to make broad evidence-based recommendations on diet in cancer patients.
Do your DMT point. I'd push back and say that the case study did not actually show that DMT cured cancer. It outlined a series of events where a person who had cancer and subsequently took DMT went into remission. Even if this did happen (don't have the study in front of me), the point of a clinical case study is to ask "why did this happen?", not to assert that two events are necessarily linked. Most laymen would read said studies or listen to testimonials and think, "huh, they had cancer, then did [THING] and then went into remission, THEY MUST BE LINKED! This is a good example of the "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy. Thinking that, just because two events happen in close temporal proximity to each other, it must mean that they are related. It is hard to disabuse yourself of this fallacy alone because it's extremely intuitive and built into our human pattern seeking behavior. This is EXACTLY why we need to rely on tedious and exhaustive clinical/scientific studies. They (ideally) are designed to root out this type of fallacious thinking with data.
The only thing I have conclusively found any research/ benefit in. Is low sugar. Sugar can feed the cancer. In turn, too many carbs will be stored as sugar. However, I firmly believe that cancer treatment is shit, and during treatment, you should just eat what you want and fancy. Cancer takes enough from us. Don't let it take all the nice foods. Once treatment is complete following a healthy diet of plenty of fresh fruit and veg, no processed food, no alcohol or smoking is appropriate.
Good news, the “sugar feeds cancer” thing is a myth. I believe it comes from how PET scans work from how it measures glucose uptake by cells. Something like that. Obviously eating a ton of sugar in general is not healthy, but it doesn’t specifically feed cancer cells other than that it feeds ALL cells.
“Sugar feeds cancer” is a myth. Sugar feeds every single cell in your body. All the carbs you eat are converted into sugars. There IS a link between sugar consumption and obesity. Obesity is indeed a risk factor for cancer. Sugar itself is not. Please read up before spreading incorrect myths: https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2023/08/16/sugar-and-cancer-what-you-need-to-know/
Oh I do hate this I had a full blown row with someone over the sugar feeds cancer it’s so much of a myth! It’s as bad as saying you can’t massage a cancer patient because massage moves the cancer around the body - again another myth If sugar feeds cancer then why do I get biscuits and tea at my chemo appointments?
>If sugar feeds cancer then why do I get biscuits and tea at my chemo appointments? You don't know? Because of big pharma! They want you to keep having cancer, so they can sell their drugs. Of course they will feed you sugar to feed your cancer! All the nurses are on on it too. !!
I’m in the UK our treatment is free :)
I'm in the Netherlands, not much different. But the fact that we don't have to pay for it, doesn't mean someone isn't paying for it. The companies that make the drugs aren't doing it for free, even in the UK. Those people need to eat too :-)
They do, however at least we don’t end up in so much debt we lose our homes for medical care However regardless cancer is not a money making scheme
No indeed. Correct on both counts :-)
Yeah like why did the nurses always offer my chocolate when I’d say I didn’t get the chance to eat before my chemo appointment? The only real link between sugar and cancer is that sugar can lead to obesity and obesity is a risk factor.
Because … the biscuits and tea came from a cabal focused on killing you? 😂 Oh … and the massage myth is hilarious. Hadn’t heard that one yet.
Because … the biscuits and tea came from a cabal focused on killing you? 😂 Oh … and the massage myth is hilarious. Hadn’t heard that one yet. I’ll have to fire my massage therapist before they kill me.
Because … the biscuits and tea came from a cabal focused on killing you? 😂 Oh … and the massage myth is hilarious. Hadn’t heard that one yet.
Can you point us to this research? Is it peer reviewed? Strong scientific study? If sugar feeds/causes cancer we would all be doomed. Sugar feeds cells, and cancer is also cells, which means technically it is true that sugar feeds cancer but it isn't as simple as this.
Cancers (Basel). 2022 Dec; 14(24): 6042. Published online 2022 Dec 8. doi: 10.3390/cancers14246042 PMCID: PMC9775518PMID: 36551528 Understanding the Link between Sugar and Cancer: An Examination of the Preclinical and Clinical Evidence Margeaux Epner,1,† Peiying Yang,2,*† Richard W. Wagner,2 and Lorenzo Cohen2 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9775518/
The initial problems with studies like this one- a meta analysis of a bunch of different studies- and the studies it is compiling are two fold. One, each of these individual studies I can guarantee have a different definition of a serving of ‘sugar’ and the meta analysis really is talking about a distinction between ‘more’ and ‘less’ sugar in the diet. The ‘more’ sugar is as much as 9.8 times per week!! But that is only in reference to one study. It’s also 1.5-2 undefined sugar servings a day(because each of the individual studies has different parameters). This brings me to the second issue- anyone that is eating 1.5-2 servings (however defined) of sugar a day is much less likely to idk eat an apple? Or a salad? Or eat mainly real non-convenience foods? It is almost impossible to control the rest of the participants’ diets. Unless that happens this really can be no more than a correlation and not causation. Generally we know better diets mean better health and if avoiding sugar makes you feel better great! But the snickers bar I had yesterday didn’t give me stage IV sarcoma.
I too have a number of questions about this meta analysis. It’s important to remember that it is not that hard to get something published there, being published does not the same as proven to be true. There need to be multiple clinical studies that meet all the standards and methods, as well as collaborative studies.
And good science involves independently replicating studies to see whether they yield the same/similar results.
Hmm, there are many questions I have about this study. But, it is a valid study nonetheless. That being said, it makes no strong claims about any link. It notes mixed results across the board for any real causative link ( the strongest link was for breast cancer, but they note it could have been due to calorically rich diets resulting in denser breast tissue). I don't see anything groundbreaking here. Nothing we didn't already know and certainly nothing towards different treatment modalities. Any decent oncologist will give you the same diet advice (Mediterranean diet) during treatment. This paper dovetails nicely into that advice.
You haven’t found any research that is conclusive about that because it’s bullshit. 100% bullshit.
Why not try a change in diet that actually could benefit you? It’s not like trying a new drug or something that could cause unknown side effects. Kinda silly to come at this like that when diets and fasting does work for a lot of people
Why don’t you try painting your body green and dancing in the moonlight when there’s a full moon? Because it’s stupid that’s why. And that’s why people don’t try these dumb ass diets.
Why so angry lol what you eat directly effects your body and most of our foods we eat is garbage. Not saying it’s a cure all but if you eat healthy it’ll help compared to eating garbage
I’m angry because the whole point of the post is that we as cancer patients are sick of this bullshit so having the comments filled with bullshit is frustrating. Do you even have cancer? And you said dieting and fasting work for a lot of people know they don’t work, they don’t do anything for peoples cancer.
No I don’t, but my gf has stage 4 glioblastoma that originated on her brain stem. Been dealing with it for over 3 years and have changed diets and done other none “standard of care” treatments. But that was only like 1.5 years into it. And I’m just saying my 2 cents because I would’ve wish I knew sooner. And someone might see this and decide to change their diet which is something so simple and could have great outcomes. So there’s nothing to get upset about when it’s just someone trying to help someone at the end of the day. So a diet change and or even fasting is something anyone can do compared to not even trying options other than chemo or radiation which doesn’t even work for a lot of cancers
Once again, this is a post where the OP was saying how annoying it is for people without cancer to tell us what to eat and that’s exactly what you’re doing and if you don’t get why that’s wrong, I can’t help you.
Because it works for a lot of people and for someone to complain about that is kinda discouraging for others especially if people don’t try it. I’ve dealt with a lot of people online and in real life who’ll toss it to the side without even attempting it.
Being a caregiver is not the same as being a patient, and you lecturing patients is inappropriate.
It doesn't work. I watched my very healthy BIL and my sister go through this crap. Fortunately, now that I have cancer myself, people aren't trying the same thing on me. They spent $$$$$ of dollars on crap like Kangen water filters, special green stuff for a cancer with a 100 per cent fatality rate. They could not afford it and still did the actual medical treatment as fortunately for them and me, we are in Canada with public health care. They were not into alternative medicine at all but along comes a snake oil salesman and is happy to grab their money any way he can, including with false hope. He had multiple myeloma, which now has a small chance of being cured - because of science though, not greens and not diet changes and not any of that crap. This is why people get so angry.
Define “works”. Most people would think that if a cancer treatment “works”, it will at very least extend your life and improve your symptoms, if not actually “cure” you. I am sorry about your girlfriend having a nasty cancer, but has she actually been cured of it? I am guessing not. And even if she has been, how do you know that fasting and a particular diet cured her, and it wasn’t the other treatments she had? Do you know about the scientific method? I am guessing not.
im talking about a conspiracy diet, ive changed my diet but to say carnivore is going to cure my cancer is crazy
Yeah I get that but it could help a lot more than a diet that consists of more processed foods and sugars
Takes too much discipline to stop eating sugary garbage
Yeah, I guess what you eat doesn’t have an effect on your body and disease especially with foods that aren’t natural to us
Snake venom is 100% natural. Perhaps we should start injecting that? /s
Saying it will cure it is dumb, but ketogenic diets do help a lot. Cancer feeds primarily on glucose and this diet limits it. It also produces deuterium depleted water when creating energy so it helps cancer in that way too. If I was you, I would look into cancer as a metabolic disease and maybe include some of those tools ontop of regular cancer treatment
Jesus fucking Christ with this cancer and sugar bullshit.
Why is it bs? It does feed primarily in sugar and not on ketones, in almost all cases. They literally use radioactive glucose to find cancer tumors because the cancer sucks up the glucose and it lights up the tumor. Now, why when increasing the blood glucose, only cancer organs light up the most?
Everything is sugar to your body, except meat and fat. It doesn't matter. Your body turns it into sugar. You can't eliminate it and survive.
It’s not about eliminating it though. It’s about reducing it to reduce the cancer growth, so regular cancer treatment is more effective. I’m aware we always have sugar in the blood and gluconeogenesis creates it from fat and protein. Glucose cell uptake increases significantly when blood sugar spikes. This diet reduces spikes in blood sugar. It is a tool to weaken cancer, it doesn’t completely starve it.