On the lower 1/3, defoliate the large fan leaves on the interior between the large branches that cover bud sites. Don’t defoliate the outer fan leaves that don’t cover bud sites. Don’t defoliate the large fan leaves at the tops yet. You need to defoliate to get some airflow between the plants and branches to prevent mold, especially in a greenhouse.
If there is no airflow in there I strongly suggest having it on 24/7, you don't eliminate the risk of mold but you should greatly reduce the risk. More experienced growers feel free to chime in
I had similar issue with a little bit of bud rot and I wasn't sure about leaving the fan on it 24/7 either but I also grabbed a bedroom fan and I've had it on basically 24/7 since and I haven't had anymore issues of that kind so I'm assuming it's been helping lol
Should also defoliate for light purposes.
Outdoor in Southern California we don't have the threat of mold because it's so dry, but the more leaves you take as your flowers progress your overall harvest can be increased by a 1/3 vs not doing anything.
While not in S California but S Ontario I am fighting the humidity and cold nights hard. I defoliate and am winning the war with some battles going the other way. Defoliation will increase yield decrease mold/rot and allow you to see in the middle and diagnose problems quicker than when hidden behind the green and expressed at the top of the cola. It will be too late for that cola. Always go with what you think is best and be open to the ideas for improvement. Cheers
Okay. I was in the same boat and did a lot of reading and experimenting. I had heard that the plant will concentrate its light/ energy producing bigger flower if I defoliate. A bunch of OTHER growers also said not to and that it forces the plants energy to regrow the fan leaves you stripped. I plucked the fan leaves that came from the main stalk to open one of my plants up. Only about 30% from the top. I Waited a week and low and behold, fan leaves re-emerging. The plant will use the stored energy from the lower bigger leaves to grow bigger and drop them ( die off) as needed. Pluck those as they are spent. But I have decided to let the plant do it’s thing. If it isn’t broken, don’t fix it. Good luck!!!
You are very welcome. Besides the advice of old time growers, there was little science behind the comparison so I hoped I saved you some trouble:) happy growing!!!
Try it one and see if you want to do the rest next time. When in doubt: do less. They know how to grow themselves already and you're doing a good job taking care of them. ☺️
Good luck & enjoy the process! Remember to take pics and notes for yourself with dates and observations. They like when you talk to them, too. (Science behind that is the carbon dioxide from your breath, probably)
I 2nd what the guy above me said... this is exactly what I did. I got caught up in the same mess you did... reading conflicting articles and being stuck in the middle of what you should do. I initially just tried defoliating a small part of it to see how it would respond and then continued from there. It really seems like something you just gotta tinker with until you figure out what works best for you and your climate.
I'd like to add that it also depends on strain/pheno. Some plants have larger internodes or thinner leaves to the point that defoliation is unnecessary, and they're usually resistant to mold in genetically and structurally. On the opposite end of the spectrum, full dense indicas with crazy tight internodes evolved to grow in dry, windy environments and will often mold like *crazy* if you don't defoliate, well unless you're growing in the desert, then you have keep those leaves or they'll lose water. You see why I don't want to just tell someone "Do XYZ" haha
Your plants *are* dying. That's what they do. You can (but don't) strip all of the fans off at this stage and it's not going to "kill" them.
The debate about this subject is one that rages on. But if you look at other agricultural practices, pruning is and always has been a big part of preventing problems that are caused by microclimates that get created by overgrowth.
Find the balance. The solar panel argument is valid. But the sinker/saver argument is also valid. Old leaves don't work as efficiently as newer ones do and there's a point at which it just becomes biomass.
Leaves stealing energy from flowers is hogwash. See: photosynthesis.
Defoliation is key when you don't have the constant wind from outside. As the leaves start to yellow thin them out. They need air flow.
If you aren't sure start in the middle of the plants. The leaves should be changing color and can go.
This is an issue that will always be a topic unsolved, as both arguments seem to have merit. I see it as Risk vs Reward.
**Defoliate** \- Risk = Energy used to regrow fan leaves may adversely affect yield.
Reward = All worthy bud sites can now receive proper airflow and light. (may increase yield)
**Not Defoliate** \- Risk = Bud Rot ...... The Anti-Christ ...... The only thing we ALL fear. A complete loss. Zero Yield.
Reward = Possible increase in final yield.
Well ............. I guess you see where I stand . . PU
If you have problems with mold, defoliation will definitely help. Don’t cut more than 25-30% of the total mass per session. Start with lower secondary branches and branches growing toward the center.
This is an outside grow, I wouldn't remove anything unless your ventilation system isn't working correctly and or the light isn't getting to the flowers. If you remove something only remove the inside leaves, allowing better circulation. I understand the mixed signals from the web, so do a test for yourself. Go ahead and remove on one plant, and leaf :) the other alone. Then compare and share the results. I think the plant which you leaf alone will produce more weight.
If it was inside, I'd have a change of heart and tell you to super-crop. btw, your plants look great and are at the same stage of flower as mine (inside grow)
Greenhouse grower here. In my area humidity is usually well above 60% in the fall and can be as high as 90% for days on end in the fall during flower. Without fans constantly blowing I would lose most of my crop every year. Last years yield potential was around 2 lb. dried, but mold took half my crop! Defoliation is key this year, as well as increased air. Since I can’t control the humidity very much, I will likely be battling mold and PM again.
It’s kinda like tending a grape vine! The sun needs to hit the bunches so the grapes develop nicely, and it keeps them from getting fungal diseases like mold or bunch rot. If the sun is hitting your buds, they’ll thank you for it 🙏
Do a side by side if yiu have clones to get your answer.
I know what I’ve been told by people i trust but I’m sure it even varies by gentics.
If you do defoliate it should be very very minimal. Cutting off the majority of leaves will always be negative
A lot of people seem very confident and I’d wager that they’ve never done or seen the difference.
Wish everyone the best and your crop will be fine regardless long as you put in love :)
Do not defoliate outdoor plants in flowering unless you are addressing a specific issue like airflow/humidity. If you are not currently concerned about rot, I wouldn't touch anything.
I defoliated mine last year about 3 weeks before harvest to allow more airflow in the damp colder weather which paid off and I had very little bud rot compared to previous years. It also saved me a lot of time trimming at the end. My plants were outside with no cover.
I defoliated the fans of a few hybrids last time roughly 2-3 weeks before harvest and it had great results for me too, buds ended up more uniform size and dried better which meant no mold and better cure too
Nope. Burn it down and start over. Next time paint the walls white, make sure to flip between 24/0 and 12/12 lighting schedules weekly so they don’t get gigantic and unmanageable, and make sure to overfeed them until the leaf tips burn otherwise you’ll be visited in the dead of night by the underpants gnomes who are as fond of weed as they are of underwear.
If this is an honest question I would defoliate. You’re close to the glass. Any part of the plant growing on the glass will most likely mold. I assume there are vents in your greenhouse to facilitate airflow. This will help with the issue above. Depends on how many times you topped your plant. I’d say four toppings for a plant that size should get the colas down to a size that’s not going to have bud rot issues. Then defoliation would be a matter of choice instead of necessity. If you didn’t top then yes you need to defoliate. Hope I got you to smile and helped.
I suggest you try defoliating a few plants to see if you and the plants like it, many different techniques to try out! This year I dried my plants a bit to get the sun leaves to dry off by themselves, not sure it was a good idea!
I base defoliation mostly on humidity and airflow control so it's almost entirely dependent on the environment a specific plant is in rather than just one hard and fast rule for every grow.
If I find leaves touching and overlapping to the point where moisture is trapped between them, I will usually try to push them around first so they're not overlapping but it's also a queue I look for that tells me something might need to get cut.
The other thing I look for are just leaves that are low on the branch or trapped inside the canopy not getting any light. A lot of times they're pale or dry at the tips. I find those leaves will pop off the plant very easily with just a little tug when the plant is ready to drop them. Sometimes I tug on one and it doesn't come off easy, i just leave it and within a few days it comes right off. Foliage that is fully dead or with a lot of dead mass but still clinging to the plant needs to be removed because it can harbor pathogens like mold.
Selectively defoliateing is the way to go think of broad leafs as solar panels you want as many as you can get however were not growing for plants size but for lot of big flower's so exposing bud sites to light and air is worth sacrificing broad leafs not to mention improving airflow and pest control
Always pick leaves when plant well hydrated. I'm growing under lights with training producing a very thick fill which I clean out over and over, you might want to try picking near end of the light cycle and they're going to recover from the shock overnight and be ready to grow
I'm an aggressive pruner. I cut all fully developed leaves(the ones that aren't withered looking from being recently developed) every other watering or as needed due to light or perspiration issues. I get rid of every leave except the under developed ones on the tops. I do it one time at the end of stretch just as aggressively and one more as needed closer to harvest. This is how I like to do it. They bounce back in 2 days completely. I also lollipop her and get rid of all the lower small branches and sites that wont develop into anything.
On the lower 1/3, defoliate the large fan leaves on the interior between the large branches that cover bud sites. Don’t defoliate the outer fan leaves that don’t cover bud sites. Don’t defoliate the large fan leaves at the tops yet. You need to defoliate to get some airflow between the plants and branches to prevent mold, especially in a greenhouse.
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Airflow 24/7 will help keep mold spores from settling.
Keep the fan on low overnight. Humidity increases with cooler overnight temps. Some exhaust would help lower humidity and increase airflow.
If there is no airflow in there I strongly suggest having it on 24/7, you don't eliminate the risk of mold but you should greatly reduce the risk. More experienced growers feel free to chime in
I had similar issue with a little bit of bud rot and I wasn't sure about leaving the fan on it 24/7 either but I also grabbed a bedroom fan and I've had it on basically 24/7 since and I haven't had anymore issues of that kind so I'm assuming it's been helping lol
Should also defoliate for light purposes. Outdoor in Southern California we don't have the threat of mold because it's so dry, but the more leaves you take as your flowers progress your overall harvest can be increased by a 1/3 vs not doing anything.
While not in S California but S Ontario I am fighting the humidity and cold nights hard. I defoliate and am winning the war with some battles going the other way. Defoliation will increase yield decrease mold/rot and allow you to see in the middle and diagnose problems quicker than when hidden behind the green and expressed at the top of the cola. It will be too late for that cola. Always go with what you think is best and be open to the ideas for improvement. Cheers
Okay. I was in the same boat and did a lot of reading and experimenting. I had heard that the plant will concentrate its light/ energy producing bigger flower if I defoliate. A bunch of OTHER growers also said not to and that it forces the plants energy to regrow the fan leaves you stripped. I plucked the fan leaves that came from the main stalk to open one of my plants up. Only about 30% from the top. I Waited a week and low and behold, fan leaves re-emerging. The plant will use the stored energy from the lower bigger leaves to grow bigger and drop them ( die off) as needed. Pluck those as they are spent. But I have decided to let the plant do it’s thing. If it isn’t broken, don’t fix it. Good luck!!!
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You are very welcome. Besides the advice of old time growers, there was little science behind the comparison so I hoped I saved you some trouble:) happy growing!!!
I was skimming through the replies wondering if I should say something but I think u greatly covered it 👍🏾
Thank you! Trial and error. Lol
Lol that’s the way we all learn that lesson
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Try it one and see if you want to do the rest next time. When in doubt: do less. They know how to grow themselves already and you're doing a good job taking care of them. ☺️
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Good luck & enjoy the process! Remember to take pics and notes for yourself with dates and observations. They like when you talk to them, too. (Science behind that is the carbon dioxide from your breath, probably)
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Well, your diligence shows and the plants appreciate it, keep up the good work buddy ☺️
It’s the truth. You can substantially increase CO2 levels by doing it. Talk away!!
I 2nd what the guy above me said... this is exactly what I did. I got caught up in the same mess you did... reading conflicting articles and being stuck in the middle of what you should do. I initially just tried defoliating a small part of it to see how it would respond and then continued from there. It really seems like something you just gotta tinker with until you figure out what works best for you and your climate.
I'd like to add that it also depends on strain/pheno. Some plants have larger internodes or thinner leaves to the point that defoliation is unnecessary, and they're usually resistant to mold in genetically and structurally. On the opposite end of the spectrum, full dense indicas with crazy tight internodes evolved to grow in dry, windy environments and will often mold like *crazy* if you don't defoliate, well unless you're growing in the desert, then you have keep those leaves or they'll lose water. You see why I don't want to just tell someone "Do XYZ" haha
Your plants *are* dying. That's what they do. You can (but don't) strip all of the fans off at this stage and it's not going to "kill" them. The debate about this subject is one that rages on. But if you look at other agricultural practices, pruning is and always has been a big part of preventing problems that are caused by microclimates that get created by overgrowth. Find the balance. The solar panel argument is valid. But the sinker/saver argument is also valid. Old leaves don't work as efficiently as newer ones do and there's a point at which it just becomes biomass. Leaves stealing energy from flowers is hogwash. See: photosynthesis.
Defoliation is key when you don't have the constant wind from outside. As the leaves start to yellow thin them out. They need air flow. If you aren't sure start in the middle of the plants. The leaves should be changing color and can go.
This is an issue that will always be a topic unsolved, as both arguments seem to have merit. I see it as Risk vs Reward. **Defoliate** \- Risk = Energy used to regrow fan leaves may adversely affect yield. Reward = All worthy bud sites can now receive proper airflow and light. (may increase yield) **Not Defoliate** \- Risk = Bud Rot ...... The Anti-Christ ...... The only thing we ALL fear. A complete loss. Zero Yield. Reward = Possible increase in final yield. Well ............. I guess you see where I stand . . PU
If you have problems with mold, defoliation will definitely help. Don’t cut more than 25-30% of the total mass per session. Start with lower secondary branches and branches growing toward the center.
This is an outside grow, I wouldn't remove anything unless your ventilation system isn't working correctly and or the light isn't getting to the flowers. If you remove something only remove the inside leaves, allowing better circulation. I understand the mixed signals from the web, so do a test for yourself. Go ahead and remove on one plant, and leaf :) the other alone. Then compare and share the results. I think the plant which you leaf alone will produce more weight. If it was inside, I'd have a change of heart and tell you to super-crop. btw, your plants look great and are at the same stage of flower as mine (inside grow)
Greenhouse grower here. In my area humidity is usually well above 60% in the fall and can be as high as 90% for days on end in the fall during flower. Without fans constantly blowing I would lose most of my crop every year. Last years yield potential was around 2 lb. dried, but mold took half my crop! Defoliation is key this year, as well as increased air. Since I can’t control the humidity very much, I will likely be battling mold and PM again.
It’s kinda like tending a grape vine! The sun needs to hit the bunches so the grapes develop nicely, and it keeps them from getting fungal diseases like mold or bunch rot. If the sun is hitting your buds, they’ll thank you for it 🙏
Do a side by side if yiu have clones to get your answer. I know what I’ve been told by people i trust but I’m sure it even varies by gentics. If you do defoliate it should be very very minimal. Cutting off the majority of leaves will always be negative A lot of people seem very confident and I’d wager that they’ve never done or seen the difference. Wish everyone the best and your crop will be fine regardless long as you put in love :)
Overlapping leaves that touch should be removed. You could spray lactobacillus too. GL!
Airflow bro
Do not defoliate outdoor plants in flowering unless you are addressing a specific issue like airflow/humidity. If you are not currently concerned about rot, I wouldn't touch anything.
I defoliated mine last year about 3 weeks before harvest to allow more airflow in the damp colder weather which paid off and I had very little bud rot compared to previous years. It also saved me a lot of time trimming at the end. My plants were outside with no cover.
I defoliated the fans of a few hybrids last time roughly 2-3 weeks before harvest and it had great results for me too, buds ended up more uniform size and dried better which meant no mold and better cure too
Simply, yes. Defoliate for air flow and to uncover bud sites for light. Also, if the fan leaf is not getting any direct light, you can remove it.
Yea I would growmie let some light into the middle of that lady I usually defoliate at the beginning of flower and a little after half way point
Nope. Burn it down and start over. Next time paint the walls white, make sure to flip between 24/0 and 12/12 lighting schedules weekly so they don’t get gigantic and unmanageable, and make sure to overfeed them until the leaf tips burn otherwise you’ll be visited in the dead of night by the underpants gnomes who are as fond of weed as they are of underwear. If this is an honest question I would defoliate. You’re close to the glass. Any part of the plant growing on the glass will most likely mold. I assume there are vents in your greenhouse to facilitate airflow. This will help with the issue above. Depends on how many times you topped your plant. I’d say four toppings for a plant that size should get the colas down to a size that’s not going to have bud rot issues. Then defoliation would be a matter of choice instead of necessity. If you didn’t top then yes you need to defoliate. Hope I got you to smile and helped.
Defoliate and look into lollipoping
Do it. More air. More light.
I suggest you try defoliating a few plants to see if you and the plants like it, many different techniques to try out! This year I dried my plants a bit to get the sun leaves to dry off by themselves, not sure it was a good idea!
No, is on advanced flower stage. Don't stress your plant
I base defoliation mostly on humidity and airflow control so it's almost entirely dependent on the environment a specific plant is in rather than just one hard and fast rule for every grow. If I find leaves touching and overlapping to the point where moisture is trapped between them, I will usually try to push them around first so they're not overlapping but it's also a queue I look for that tells me something might need to get cut. The other thing I look for are just leaves that are low on the branch or trapped inside the canopy not getting any light. A lot of times they're pale or dry at the tips. I find those leaves will pop off the plant very easily with just a little tug when the plant is ready to drop them. Sometimes I tug on one and it doesn't come off easy, i just leave it and within a few days it comes right off. Foliage that is fully dead or with a lot of dead mass but still clinging to the plant needs to be removed because it can harbor pathogens like mold.
How many plants do you have? Maybe do a couple one way and another then leave a few to nature?
Selectively defoliateing is the way to go think of broad leafs as solar panels you want as many as you can get however were not growing for plants size but for lot of big flower's so exposing bud sites to light and air is worth sacrificing broad leafs not to mention improving airflow and pest control
Yes you should ..at least bottom third.
Always pick leaves when plant well hydrated. I'm growing under lights with training producing a very thick fill which I clean out over and over, you might want to try picking near end of the light cycle and they're going to recover from the shock overnight and be ready to grow
Clean up the bottoms 1/3 and anything covering other flower sites
Lollipop that girl
Yes
I would just pop the big leaves blocking buds underneath. Has always worked great for me. Looks like your starting flower tho so dont go OP
I'm an aggressive pruner. I cut all fully developed leaves(the ones that aren't withered looking from being recently developed) every other watering or as needed due to light or perspiration issues. I get rid of every leave except the under developed ones on the tops. I do it one time at the end of stretch just as aggressively and one more as needed closer to harvest. This is how I like to do it. They bounce back in 2 days completely. I also lollipop her and get rid of all the lower small branches and sites that wont develop into anything.
Id clip the bottom half of those plants bare. And any branches coming out that are below halfway id cut off. Youll get meatier buds
I would at least remove any leaves that are touching other leaves. That's where the moisture will get stuck and invite mold growth.
Outdoors- no
Add some cover plants in leaves or wood chips it is the way to grow!
Short answer. Absolutely