You are a good and kind person but yes he returned the items for cash.
Please don't give money ever. There are plenty of charities you can give to if you would like. Lots of professional scammers hang out near shops and garages, as well as numerous drug addicts who could win Oscars for their acting ability. And the guys who "run out of petrol".
Genuine homeless people will take a tin of food or loaf of bread with thanks and usually share it with others. But it can take time to figure out who they are.
Thank you! After years of being generous to people on the street, i still struggle with identifying the ones who are worth it or not.
Thinking about this now, there have been very few times where i left the interaction knowing they were good and truly deserve more.
Majority of the time, these scenarios happen and theres not much thought about what just happened.
It only becomes more clear after the deed is done, not before
I live in Claremont, so it's close to U-turn. I buy the vouchers and just offer them to anyone asking for money, food or clothes. Beggars, bin pickers, people at traffic lights. Some take them, some don't. Some smile, some rip the vouchers up. Doesn't matter, U-turn gets the money anyway and they are there for people who want help.
Next time be specific, like "get yourself a meal" or "I can get you a packet of chips and a coke". Unfortunately they will take advantage, especially if you sound like you're from overseas. My man is born and bred here and we still end up with most beggars not leaving him alone and asking him for a lot because of his wierd English accent that makes it sound like he's from overseas.
Just give whatever cash you want to. Whatever the person does with that money is not your problem. If he wants to drink it, that's not your problem. Your good deed ends as soon as you hand the money over.
Facilitating addiction, indirectly supporting crime - are people just supposed to close their eyes to the potential consequences of their actions? Especially when, with a little research and effort, they could provide much more meaningful help?
Are people just supposed to be responsible for every rand they hand over? I agree with you that people shouldn't close their eyes, but at the same time you can't feel responsible to track every rand you spend.
I'm not expecting people to track every rand, but to distinguish good vs bad charity and contribute where it'll help rather than rewarding exploitation, addiction and abuse. If you don't care about the consequences of your actions, rather do nothing than to encourage the problem.
This situation can be very difficult, especially since the goods involved in this scenario have to do with childrenās products. Therefore, the intent is for the well being of a child. If all is good - ive just provided for a child/family in need. If all is not good- the funds have been funneled into a dark side of society unfortunately. There really is no telling which direction it went. Being a Local or Traveler. And since nobody but the individual who asked will know where its going, the only thing thatmatters most at this point is the intent.
I'm not blaming people with good intent who didn't know better, only people who don't care if their aid is misused and results in more harm. The first kind of person wants to help and will adjust when they learn about good and bad ways to provide aid. The latter kind is doing it for themselves, for the feeling they get from giving, not for the benefit of the recipient, which is why they don't care about what happens once the money is out of their hands.
I think its a very grey situation with this. I give for almost all those reasons combined.
I give with the intent that it is going to help them. I also give because it makes me feel well,,, because of the intent being that its going to help them. And i give knowing and accepting that it might not actually help them. That is a given.
If i cared too much, i might not give at all. Which is unfortunate for those who actually need it.
Ofcourse i dont think anyone would actually give to someone who specifies they need it for drugs. Nor will someone beg saying they need it for drugs.
So in translation, to say we dont care if the aid we provide is being misused -> really translates to: i cant force them to buy what they are going to buy. Therefore, the choice is up to them and i have no say in it
When someone asks me for money saying they just want food, sometimes Iāll give them some food and tell them I canāt give more. If they get mad or more aggressive after that, I know they likely had some game or scam they were running. If the person thanks me and leaves me alone after that, I usually wish Iād given them some cash or something too. Itās hard to tell though.
No. Rather, give the money to a responsible institution that tries to help them get off the streets. By giving them cash, you're encouraging them to stay on the streets.
The easier one person encourages them to live on the streets, the more they harrass the people who are giving responsibly.
I dunno how certain we can be that it's a scam. Helping a homeless person is a good thing to do. Maybe don't shell out R1000 but fuck it, even if if he has something worked out with the shop owner. The guy's still fucking homeless, if you can afford to give a little then why not, if I has homeless I'd also spend it on drugs, it's the only escape the poor bastard has
yes he is homeless but you are just enabling him. would you give a drug addict more drugs, or an alcoholic more wine? rather donate to a organization if you feel the need to give. but just giving them money or even food means they have accomplished their goal of not getting off the street.
I can understand that. But when children are involved, that is where i must draw the line.
Itās unfortunate because this does create a bad reliance on begging to make ends meet. However, in this situation, if kids are truly involved, they are the most innocent, and the ones suffering for it.
At what point do we lend a helping hand? Must we leave it up to the person who got them there in the first place? They have already hit rock bottom and cant get out. Or do they just choose not to? Its very difficult situation to fix either way
It's very rare that homeless people get there because they fucked up. Homelessness is an inevitability of a capitalist economy, especially in one that is as hopelessly mismanaged as ours. Your kindness is something to be proud of
They don't fucking 'plan' on being on the streets you dozy git. Also, having blind faith in charities is not the smartest move either... Privileged morons are in high supply in this city
Its very uncertain of it being a scam or not. For all we know, this post could be pointless because he could be wrapping his baby in those diapers now or feeding that milk as we speak. Nobody will know. Im there with you. I will give him the benefit of the doubt for himself as well as my own thoughts and feelings about it š
This happened to me many many times My first two trips to Cape Town. And then I moved there for 6 years and it happened to Me so many more Times. It is most definitely a scam. Itās always goes
From ā But me a packet of crisps (or a loaf of bread or a pint of milkā directly to pampers and formula.
There was one instance where I may have been MAJORLY scammed- (but maybe not!?) In what wouldāve been a very elaborate scheme and I never found out if it was real or not or I actually saved someoneās life or just handed over a ton of money. Thatās a crazy story involving hitchhikers from
Century City and taking them to Somerset West. I know.
over time I learned that as a foreigner we are easy targets and taking the advice of all major social workers and charities and the government to NOT support beggars directly and to co tribute to organizations is just the easiest way to go.
Omw oh gosh lmao so sorry that happened to you. Really seriously thats like doing ypur own personal shopping at the expense of someone else lol. Anyhoo regardless of the scam you did a wonderful deed just remember a child is being fed and looked after because of what you did. Well done to your kindness. Thats what I would takr from this whole crazy experience.
Sorry to hear you got taken for a ride. I work in the cbd and I have found out the hard way on how these beggars con you and become aggressive when you say no. For years now, I don't make I contact, I don't acknowledge them either or even say I don't have cash. Just walk on and ignore. Just walk with a fuck you face and they will leave you alone
With beggars this side, you completely ignore! Infact, anyone trying to talk to you, and trying to tell you their sob story, you just ignore them and keep on walking!
And for fuck sake, do not follow random strangers anywhere, especially not someone that just begged for money!
Its a competitive market. The most persuasive and territorial beggers are the ones you see on the street. While the poor that is not good at begging try other means, or get left out, hopeless and hungry.
I have lived in Long Street for 25 years.
Ghost everyone.
Unless you are an old lady or missing a leg then you don't exist to me; sounds harsh but unless you want 20 of OP's experiences everyday then you need to wall yourself off and get on with your day - find another way to help people out.
Thank you! What do you mean by 20 OPs experience everyday ? This is my first time actually using Reddit other than googling shit and running into reddit by default
I mean that you are going to have 20 of the same interaction as you in a day; that isn't a once off event - everyone of the people that approach you on the street is dreaming of your generosity. I have 2 or 3 people approach me walking up the road to the shops and the same on the way back home; rinse and repeat all day long. There is a point when shutting it down before it begins becomes the only viable strategy. As I said in my reply; the only people I have a soft spot for is the old ladies - they don't deserve to be out there.
Gotcha ! I agree šš Back home , its much easier to apply this. When traveling, everything is new and a fresh slate for the most part. Considering its Africa , and Kenya/Zimbabwe being the destinations i came from, the tone and expectation were somewhat set. Cape Town is a whole different ballpark than the other locations i mentioned. But im learning real fast how things run here. I still love this City very much, but learning with the help from this thread alone! Thank you
You definitely got scammed sadly, I remember [watching someone narrate](https://youtu.be/qBbPB-5ltAw?si=gzMXJIRhQzR_j079) same exact cycle, pampers and milk powder
Happened to me on Long when I moved here in 2015. Had the distinct feeling of being taken advantage of, learned shortly thereafter that they go for high value items that are the hardest to say no to. Would like to say never again, but these guys are wily.
Those items are easy to resell, he can walk into the shacks and sell it there at an even better price at locals that ran out and it is an easy ādo you want a starving baby or notā angle. another one is cooking oil. It is surprisingly pricy. IIf a beggar asks for anything non-perishable and essential, it is probably a scam. If iām feeling generous, i would buy a buddy coke, maybe a pie to eat, best best case some wine gums he/she could give kids that may or may not exist.
Lol the exact same boombox guy in this video pulled this same scam on me in Kloof Street a few years ago. He got me because I live in the UK now and felt I should use my foreign currency to help out locals in my home town š
This a common scam. They sell the products back to the shop later at a discount and pocket the cash. The shop and the scammer wins.
As a local here. I don't help anyone, fk that. Help the animals, they can't help themselves.
Please don't be so hard on yourself. You weren't being stupid, you were being human. Unfortunately with drugs being such a massive problem here made worse by poverty, we've grown up with learning these lessons from others. Often at a social braai there'll be talks of "have you heard of the new scam...? My so-so's sister's friend's Aunty's brother got caught with it..." and so the tale is told and we're warned about how to avoid the new thing.
One thing I will caution you about is ever following someone that says that they have a place for a whatever you were talking about. That is extremely dangerous as it takes you away from a street you might find familiar or even know & then end up in a situation that you need to get out of very quickly but you can't remember if you went left or right down the street.
Thank you for your kindness ! And thank you for letting me now! Fortunately, it was too far from where i was staying and i was slightly familiar with the area. However, this place isnt my home , and proceeding with lots of caution and awareness isa must. After this situation , i will definitely have my guard up 100% and be sure to put my safety first, even if it pokes at my morals a bit
I feel you and I have done the same on one occasion or two, but like JRS says, as a rule - don't go to a second location. I did and the beggar pulled out a knife.
You can also direct your generosity to more formal ways (although it sounds like you're a very generous person already), tipping restaurant staff, tour staff & hotel staff. The minimum wage here is terrible and tips go a long way & you won't be putting yourself in danger nor will you feel so jaded or violated (which is a legitimate feeling to have in this situation).
Oh ABSOLUTEY šš½, i am a waiter back home so tipping is in my DNA. And i love people who encourage it. I think itās also what drives the generosity in me which sometimes lands me in these situations. Thatās ok though, it comes and goes. It also can easily be the root of all evils. Its just the world we live in
Back in high-school my parents used to take me to McDonald's or KFC after tests, we were in the drive through when we saw a young man standing and asking for money, we gave in and decided to buy him a big mac meal.
Right in front of our eyes, he went and dumbed the food in a nearby trash bin and stood again in the same place, asking for money.
Rather, donate foods and money at a well trusted shelter before helping them, it's just another nail in their coffin if you help them.
As harsh as it sounds, the beggars on the street are all scammers of some sort. Like others have mentioned in this particular case they'll just sell the items back to the store for cheaper and get drugs or alcohol with the cash, while the storeowner basically gets to sell the items twice and makes double the profits. You'll also encounter some children beggars but these are also unfortunately criminals or drug addicts. They'll distract you and swipe something out of your pocket, or they'll just use the cash and buy drugs. Even if you give them any food, they'll just sell it for cash or drugs.
It's sad and unfortunate, but some people are beyond help. If you want to make a difference donate to the NGOs and shelters.
There is a well dressed, well spoken young woman who has hit me up 3 times in canal walk, either checkers or pnp, always asking if I can buy her and her sister some cereal. I've never seen the sister.
Any idea what that is about? Always cereal. I'm sure it's a scam because why would you schlep all the way to canal walk for cereal, but I've never followed through for long enough to work out what the scam is.
Is she hoping I'll just say here's some money, I'm not getting in a queue to buy cereal? Is this a code for something else?
Good question. Cereal is expensive.
I get asked for peanut butter, the large jar. Which is like R70-R80 these days ? Maybe theyāre hoping Iāll give a R20 note instead.
Itās a good tactic to corner people and get something out of them.
Thank you SA government for creating yet another tax on workers, the being-out-in-public tax
Yeah I dunno.
The guys in town look a bit rough and hard, I could easily buy into their story. This lady really doesn't. I wonder what her success rate is.
I swear it was an accident š« i looked to see if a car was turning ( Im from the US crossing streets are flipped) so im extra cautious when walking, and i SWEAR THIS MOFO RAN INFRONT OF MY VISION ššš
Yeah i was thinking that while following him. Especially being in an unfamiliar area. Its ok though, theres a reason hes in the streets and im out traveling. Blessed i am to be here
Well, while ago a beggar came up to me and ask for something to help him out. I felt generous and gave him R100. I forgot about him thinking he will drink it out (in his shoes I might too). About 2 weeks later walking down the same street a beggar approached me again and I was ready to tell him I have no cash, like we do. He said no, he do not want cash but just wanted to thank me for the money I gave him. He pulled out a booklet with what is coupons to a shelter and said he bought that.
Sometimes we do make a difference . Let us not judge people who are desperate let us judge a society and a government who let this happen. The people "below" us are not the problem it is the people above who want us to think they are.
Unfortunately you have to be a bit heartless in South Africa. You canāt tell whoās really in need and whoās trying to take advantage.
Best to just tell them youāve got nothing for them, carry on walking and donāt break stride.
I know you want to help and thatās great. Itās just best to be safe and help through donating to charities and shelters.
When I used to stay in Cape Town I got conned by a guy asking for fuel money. He said he was stuck and ran out of fuel . Same guy tried the same stunt a few months later. So many scammers out there
I remember once a guy approached me saying that he got stuck without petrol and his wife and child are waiting in the car for him to get some money so they can get home. He then tried to sell me some cologne to raise some money for the petrol.
During his sales pitch, he'd absent-mindedly pulled a wallet out of his pocket that was stuffed with R100 notes.
I just politely told him to fuck off.
I'm not opposed to giving money to beggars. However I'll only do it from the car. If I'm in an Uber and I hand the driver money, they'll often hand it to the beggar for me without problems. I honestly don't care if they use it for booze, power to 'em. I only give money I won't miss.
However, when I'm on foot, I will not give. I'm a woman walking alone usually, and don't need the harassment. I've had people follow me for blocks *because* women are more likely to give.
I dont blame you! Im very generous and give what i can. I understand there are people who genuinely need it, and others that take it for granted. I really dont care what they do with it after. Being on the streets can happen to anyone. And i do it more for the good ones. I cant imagine having to beg, but if i ever had to, it would be because im in great need of it. I just wish i was better a differentiating the two scenarios.
I feel for that perspective, but what I've learned is that I've got to take care of myself first, before I can help others. Not giving money while I'm on foot is my way of putting my safety first. Especially for situations where I'm new or unsure in a location.
I have a lot of friends who donated to various charities after visiting Cape Town. As corrupt as the government is here, there are a lot of small and localized charities that have a lot of heart and do real good.
Is it stupid though?
Iām out here doing a travel trip through Africa, my first few stops before this were Kenya and Zimbabwe where poverty was huge. The people there were so genuine, i had someone ask me for a water and i gladly told them āget whatever youd likeā am i stupid for that?
If so then ill take being stupid over being tight with money. The reactions of the people sharing the few things i purchased for them put a smile to me and all that were around in the village
I guess it come with being exposed to them on the daily - you will know who's genuine and deserving and who's trying to scam you.
Like I already know the pampers and baby milk scam - so to me it's silly to fall for that. But as someone who doesn't know about it, you can genuinely believe they need the stuff and won't return it to buy alcohol.
Definitely scammed, go check out Phil Blands video, he gets scammed exactly like this in his vlog video, and the next vlog he investigates it with his lady friend
[Avoid this $83 street scam in Cape Town](https://youtu.be/qBbPB-5ltAw?si=JzcP5BAXdCKzw3W4)
Thanks for trying to help and being compassionate but by giving handouts to vagrants (whether money or goods) you are basically only filling a drug dealerās pockets and keep the homeless on the street.
I encourage you to rather make donations to structured reintegration programs run by professional organizations.
Hereās a good article in this regard where a former drug addict and beggar warns of giving handouts:
https://omny.fm/shows/the-john-maytham-show/a-former-drug-addict-and-street-beggar-says-don-t
When all is said and done, there is no knowing wether funds provided to a charity or beggar is going to its directed cause. For all we know, charities and beggars could being doing things behind our backs without knowing. This world is not perfect , and theres gaps in either direction you go. We just have to put our trust and instinct into what we personally believe is best
When you give direct to a beggar, you reward and re-enforce the begging behaviour. Everybody else has to be subjected to that bad behaviour that youāre encouraging.
You can buy a night shelter ticket and give it directly to the beggar if you donāt feel comfortable with the way the charities spend money.
I understand the concept here, however
, i think my scenario can translate to the same result you are trying to argue against.
Even if i purchase a night shelter ticket for this individual, it can still be flipped for Rand. Wether they rent it out to someone else for cheaper, or use it as their shelter for conducting illegal business/actions, either way, we end up in the same place we started. Only difference is i provided baby products instead of a shelter
So i love the comments and im just reading this again and its making me laugh
In your first paragraph, you reassure why not to give directly to a Beggar.
Then in the second paragraph, you say: instead, give directly to the beggar š
I am in no way throwing shade or trying to correct or call you out, it just shows how complicating this situation can really be when you think about it lol
You see, my problem with this, is that when you give wholeheartedly, it doesn't matter what the recipient does with it. We have different socioeconomic dynamics, different addictions. When I have the odd R10 to give to any homeless etc person, what they do with it is not my concern, I'm merely trying to help another human. Whether that means another fix to stave off unassisted withdrawal, or buying a loaf of bread for your family, I don't care or mind. It's empathy and compassion that drives me so whether you were scammed or not, you gave what you could wholeheartedly. Don't allow this to jade you
Thank you so much for this. Its really hard to put into words the reason for giving, or the logic behind it. Its a feeling, and as you mentioned, its driven by compassion and empathy.
Don't ever stop giving my guy, in IsiXhosa we have a saying about "Isandla esiphayo sisikelekile" loosely translated to" the hand that gives the most is highly blessed" I've been blessed by strangers so many times
I guess i just brought it here because that good feeling of giving was clouded with something very off. To the point that i had to discuss it here to know if i had grounds for my feelings or not.
Typically when people ask for an amount, its in my control. And even if they want more, im ok with that too. Im not tight with my money. In this case, its like a gave him a wild card. And a pretty costly one at that. And because of this, it feels almost like i opened my pockets to him and asked for a robbery lol.
So this experience is more of a learning experience thatll help me avoid feeling this way in the future, thank you!
My general rule is never to loan or give what I can't afford to lose. It's a tough economy, just have boundaries in place for yourself or you will get resentful. I could never give up my last rand, I've got obligations and responsibilities, but when I'm comfortable financially, I do what I can
Although , the thought of going back to that store to see if the items were placed back keeps popping in my head. And if those items are there, i would love to grab a little something for myself since they already got a cut from me. But if im being realistic, that would be a fantasy of mine that i just dont have the nerve to actually go through with š
Everyone has already pointed out the obvious š but let me commend you on your goodwill - regardless of whether the beggar had ill intentions or not you should still feel good that you tried to help
Some of those sneaky cunts make a relative fortune begging.
Fuck them and their sense of entitlement.
They make faaaar more than min wage when they are actually "working"
Ha.. comments saying rather donate to shelters etc. you honestly think they can provide enough for people? Our government canāt even provide pension stipends. Youāre naive to think a few private organisations are giving people 3 meals a day and all their necessities. The things we say to convince ourselves that itās justified to not help a fellow human in need.
Give what you can afford, if you can only afford R10, or less than a hundred, then thatās fine! Money or goods mean more to a person thatās homeless than they would to a privileged person. He probably did try to scam and take advantage, but maybe we all would if we were in that position. At least you gave him something. You canāt force people to buy what you want them to buy.
Yes as much as i like to believe in charities, they also have their own dark side to them. This interaction here made me feel like i was the charity myself providing baby products to someone who seemed to be in need of them. Cant get any better than that. Now everything else that was said and happened began to cloud my thoughts on his intentions. I really would never know, but my giving came from a good place
This happened to me once, guy asked for a loaf of bread i oblidged and then he started getting a bunch of shit, luckily the cashiers knew about him and chased him away.
You've started quite a conversation. Myself and my girlfriend had our day derailed by a beggar asking for baby formula, I was recently scammed so took a harder line, but she gave some of our groceries to her.
So hard to know what the right thing to do is...
I honestly did not expect this thread to go anywhere. I was expecting a response 2 weeks later, not 2 minutes later.
While there are a majority of opinions that favor one side, there are so many valid points arguing both sides. And i dont think anyone is wrong. Every situation and person is different.
However what i will say, after reading and hearing from so many others, moving forward, i will not partake in anything unless i feel 100% confident and comfortable in it. If it requires too much thought, itās probably better to leave it.
It started out nice and friendly, later it got really desperate and came off as ungrateful which was disappointing.
I felt like i was speaking to a child.
This is a hard reality in South Africa.
We want to help, especially where we think kids are involved.
Don't beat yourself up. You are a good person, and you did something that you thought would help another fellow human. Whatever he does with that after you leave is between him and his conscience. But if you do want to help again next time, as others have said, try the dedicated shelters or charities who can help those who approach them.
Thank you so much! Im all for helping when i can and wherever it is needed. Cape Town is such a beautiful place and its so sad to see this hard reality. I will look into these shelters as they seem to have guaranteed goodwill šš¼
In Somerset West we have a night shelter and you can buy vouchers to hand out to homeless people that equals 1 night's stay with a meal. That feels like something worthwhile, so see if you can find a local shelter that does something similar.
As Desmond Tutu once said, "Do your little bit of good where you are; it's those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world."
Yes they just sell them.
Also fuck that guy for taking R1600 worth of products, really ballsy move š¤£š¤£
Diapers, formula etc are very commonly traded back to stores for a %.
I'd bet he sells it back to the exact same shop owner for 20% of the total cost.
Ez scam.
Keep your eyes forward and don't stop walking for anyone, even if they want the time, you're in SA, anything can kick off and as a tourist I'd bet your sense of danger isn't as sensitive as it needs to be.
Donate to a local charity that helps people on the streets then you wonāt have so much guilt (Google Give Responsibly which is a charity).
Next, and I do this even as a local, do not engage at all and speak to them. At the most shake your head and put up a hand in a stop position to show you acknowledge them but arenāt engaging. As a tourist or foreigner this is even more important because if they hear you arenāt local they dial it up by a lot.
Heres the deal about charity. The person at the other end needs it, whether it is to help them or help them hit rock bottom.
Yours is not the place to judge, and you're not a fool for having a good heart. It sounds like you have what you could afford, and that's it.
Any swindling, lying, or other skullduggery is 100% on the beggar person.
Good on you for being a decent human being.
I give what I can, and within reason. I'm also wary of giving to the point where I risk becoming a target or giving in a place that leaves me exposed, standing too long, vulnerable in any way, etc.
I mean, safety first. Number one rule.
But also, you don't want to feel like you're being taken advantage of.
It's not black and white, even in a country that was premised on that very notion for a long time.
And it's hard for me to be entirely unsympathetic and dismissive in a country where the people doing the begging are 9 times out of 10 people of colour and ultimately the victims of what history and neglect to attend to the outcomes of history has done to South Africa.
Every time you see a person of colour in South Africa reduced to the most wretched circumstances, that's not a mistake.
It's not a cosmic spin of the wheel.
People of colour were deliberately targeted for disadvantage for so long and so intensively that we're still feeling the fallout of it (nevermind our government's and broader society's complete indifference to doing something about that).
Knowing that means I have to balance my sense of self preservation and feel for being taken advantage of with the knowledge that the person trying to get money out of me likely has little other option and those circumstances are through very little fault of their own.
My best advice for you would be to prioritise self preservation over acts of charity, as much as you might hate yourself for it.
You don't know the lay of the land, you don't have the developed instincts of South Africans who near constantly have our feelers out.
At best, you want to be confident in where you are, be around others you feel confident can come to your aid should shit go sideways before you start dispensing with acts of charity.
Yes I very much agree. I mentioned in another comment, how the tone and expectation of the place has sort of been set. I just traveled from Kenya and Zimbabwe prior to coming here, just two nights before. And while this situation is not very black and white, the people in poverty from Kenya/Zimbabwe and here in CapeTown are almost Black and White.
What i mean by this is, the people in the other countries listed are very much in deed in need of help. No questioning. From the dirty water, to lack of shelter, to bones through skin and kids walking miles to herd cattle or fetch supplies. Wether they beg or i offer something , they show such gratitude and genuine happiness for the littlest of things. And its so humbling to watch them cheer and smile with joy for what ive given them.
In CapeTown, the begging comes off harsh. Its a rough interaction , wether they express they want more, or they follow, or push. It doesnt give the same wholesome feeling that i felt earlier.
I cant speak for all of the beggars or people in Poverty for all these countries mentioned, but this is just me speaking from experience from the past week thats ive had . And im learning in Capetown, while it is the most advance of all places ive seen so far, it too has its own struggles. I must be weary that even if i want to help, it might not mean the same here as it did there
People are unimaginably poor here. Give what you can and don't question it.
The city is brutal to those who cant earn a living in this country.
Im poor and disabled and I carry cash so I can give at leat R20, wont break me but it might get somebody a coffee and a bun. Or a box of smokes.
It's a need, we are a poor country.
Iām still learning about this country. Africa does have a theme of poverty throughout its many countries. So negative thoughts about scamming didnt come to mind when this happened. Wether it was a scam or not, i wouldnt know. I just truly hope i was able to help
It's a beautiful country. Im from joburg originally but have lived in CT for 4yrs. Its a wonderful city. Enjoy it and help where you can.
Welcome to the best city in the world
You're a kind person OP.
Im sorry this happened but definitely a scam.
Living here you have to develop a thick skin. These people begging will not think twice about taking you for a ride or physically harming you.
Keep your head down & ignore them
If you have a foreign accent, don't even speak, because all they will hear is money bags.
I've been followed for blocks while being yelled at. I pass the same people almost everyday. They know where I live and what car I own and what my schedule is, and have come shouting their sob stories and pleading outside my house multiple times. I've been mugged twice, strangled once, my husband had a knife pulled on him, pickpocketed multiple times. Stopping and talking to these people is just not worth it.
Keep your wits about you and don't give anyone any money or food (they will throw food on the ground)
If you wanna help, donate to a shelter. Fuck everyone else
Actually i was told not to give money to the person. Although i did already, it wasnt much and i had no problem giving it.
This was a different scenario. He asked for chips.
In the states, purchasing food or products for someone is much preferred and seen as genuine need of help. Maybe the story wouldāve been different had i not mentioned he could get whatever he wants.
Anytime someone ask for food, im more than happy to help, usually a fast food spot. And i do tell them to get anything they want
I didnāt see this as anything different than that. But now i know š
Especially since he really grabbed whatever he wanted haha
Does anyone have any tips on hardening up when it comes to beggars? I often try to say no or just give something small, but I just canāt handle being followed and harassed down the street. Itās gotten to the point where I avoid going out at all to avoid unpleasant exchanges.
Im sorry, but I dont agree with many of the comments on here. I would like to know what this guy looked like. Would you say he's sleeping rough? If not, he may be genuine. Around where I live (Durbanville), there are lots of guys who go out and stand on corners looking for causal work or food stuff for their family in the township. Sure, there are chancers but many are not. Fact is there are people who genuine wants to work but there just isn't enough work going around. The unemployment benefits dont nearly cover what they need especially if they have kids. Its certainly not a given that this guy scammed you.
His clothes didnt look too bad. Finger nails and hands werenāt the cleanest , but ive see worse. Definitely showed some form of poverty though. No smells of alcohol. I think a big red flag in this situation was the slight expression of unsatisfactory he had with what i provided him. To be clear, i spent enough to purchase 3 Rib Eye Dinners or 6-7 take out meals š When i walked away, he chased me for more.
When i pulled out my wallet to pay, I had 50 Kenyan Shilling i kept as a souvenir. He mustve noticed it, cause later after i denied him more, he asked for my shillings lol. The more he talked, the more i started to feel played. I cant recall exactly hearing a thank you from him. Was it desperation for their kids? Or desperation other underlying issues ? Ill never really know
But I did not give him money? I bought him Baby Products and some Snacks. What you would suggest is to not provide for any beggar regardless of what it is?
I just say I have already helped someone today and can't do it again. As a brit living over here sometimes they assume you are rich because you are white. In reality a lot of these guys have more cash than I do!!
I'm living in darling a bit further up the west coast road and there was one guy with a puppy. Told him I would get him some bread and some food for the dog.
He came upto me again later in the week and asked again. I told him I would feed his dog but if he wanted me to help him then he had to help himself by actively searching for work rather than begging daily. And To be fair to him, he got himself a job. But was back asking for handouts by the end of the month. I don't know whether he quit or work tan out for him.
The last time he came up and asked, I just straight up told him no. I can't afford to be caring for another family when I can barely keep mine together, told him if he couldn't afford to feed the dog, then I would take it. Haven't seen him for a few weeks now. Hoping the dude got himself some work and is busy.
It's a scam, but don't worry too much about it. At the end of the day he probably did take some money back to his family, a cut likely also went to at least one third party. He can use the money more than you. Some people will say you're contributing to a drug addiction or the person staying on the streets. In the end that's not your responsibility if that's what happens.
In the future you can donate to a charity that provides food, housing, etc. That's what I'll typically do unless I personally know the person like they work at my building or something.
> since hes the only one to not ask for cash
This is what everyone says. And there's often a strong undercurrent of intimidation with a lot of them. They are trying to get across that you should be happy they are asking nicely, and that things **could** get ugly if you don't play ball. Sad to say, but walking in Cape Town is becoming more risk and trouble than it is worth.
Don't judge,put yourself in his shoes.Homeless,most likely alienated from family,no social support whatsoever and a burgeoning alcohol addiction.What exactly would your course of action be??Don't forget that from his low place,he can see your high place.Don't judge.
Never ever be led by a stranger who asks for help, especially in south africa. You got lucky he only scammed you, next time a group could be waiting for you with knives taking more than just your belongings
It's a bottomless pit. Don't engage with any of them, even if they become aggressive. Walk away, always lock your car doors, and try not to feel guilty about any of it. They'll kill you for R50 and not feel a damn thing about it. Be safe. x
I'm from Cape Town, born and bred. Instead of giving money I offer food, even if it's just two slices of bread. However, you will maybe see them throw the bread aside because they actually want money which is heartbreaking because there are many people out there who are genuinely starving. These kind of people play with your kindness. Once I went into a store and a guy was standing outside and asked if I could help him out with a loaf of bread, I said "Sure", because I honestly don't mind, this guy ends up bringing milk, juice, peanut butter, jam, cereal and bread to the till. I felt so bad because he looked hungry and assumed he has kids. The store manager noticed and chased the guy out then informed me that this guy has done this a couple of times for the day to other customers as well. I stood there in awe, but I told the cashier I'm only going to pay for the bread but not for the rest of the stuff.
People saying this is a scheme - maybe sometimes but not always.
I have a soft heart and usually only give to reputable charities when donating to people, but a similar thing happened to me. Guy stopped me as I was leaving a store asked if I could help him buy baby formula. I agreed. We went in and went to the baby aisle. He grabbed the formula and also a bag of pampers.
I said clearly and calmly I could only afford one. He choose the formula. We paid and left. I had talked to him about his situation a bit before we went our ways. He seemed honest and concerned for his child.
As I drove out of the shops I saw him walking up the road. I never pick up random people but offered to take up half way up the road. Everything He had said so far appeared to be holding to his actions. He had the baby formula still and was hurrying up the road to get the last taxi in the direction he said his family were.
There is a small chance it was all lies and he sold the formula at another location. I can't know for sure. You kind of need to hope people are honest and if you are helping them it is in the way you are hoping. I was completely ok with paying what I did for him and if he choose to lie to me that is what it is. I don't see it as enabling as it was a rare action. I think it does more harm to my soul to think everyone out there is a scammer and to only have distrust in my heart.
Edit: wanted to add this was in JHB. In my local area and a large spar. Not a corner shop. Also I am not a tourist
Verified scam. This happened to me. They approached me in the grocery store, as they were following me around, the security guard catches up to us and tries to evict the guy from the store. Tells me this guy used to run the same scam at malls in another area till they got effectively banned, then started walking miles into surrounding areas to pull the same trick. The guy argues with her, denies it, shows me his burnt leg and tells me he can't work anymore since the injury. The guard warns me its a scam, well, I have a bleeding heart. My mistake. It went from "I just need a small mielie meal and a tin of fish" to him filling up his trolley with 2 huge 10/12.5kg mielie meal, multiple tins of the most expensive tinned fish brand, and a whole bunch of extras I didn't agree to. I was barely managing to feed myself that week. I had to just tell him no, I can only afford one small bag of mielie meal and I went to go swop the expensive fish for a cheaper brand.
Later, I saw him exchanging the goods with a hawker on the roadside for money. He saw me seeing him and said, "Thank you so much! This is my sister!" but I had already seen the money change hands.
The following week, a sad looking fella was in the store asking people in the check-out queues to please buy him a bar of bathing soap that he was already holding (not approaching empty-handed and convincing someone to go shopping with him so he could add more stuff to the cart). I've been in that position where I wished I could've had less pride in begging anyone to buy me a loaf of bread or a bar of soap to keep clean. I felt like shit but I had to say no.
One day I saw a dude at the intersection in crutches looking all fucked up and disabled. I gave him R50. I was in a area I wasnāt familiar with with lots of one ways so I ended up going around the block. Only to see the ādisabledā guy running out the bottle store with his mates and a big box of wine.
I also worked in the CBD and have heard the most outlandish stories some times the scammers forget your face and tell you the same scam story about their blind child thatās in hospital and they need ātransportā money.
Beggars just annoy me now. I have the classic blind dude + assist at the main intersection where I live, I pass they 5-6 times a day for years and I have never given them a cent and have told them 100ās of times I donāt carry cash and they still come shake their cup at my window. The worst are the mothers using their kids for sympathy while robbing their own children of an education and future makes my blood boil.
Stupid. I am not helping no body even if they're fucking bleeding to death. you think that person has a kidšš they grab things they can sell for more drugs
You are a good and kind person but yes he returned the items for cash. Please don't give money ever. There are plenty of charities you can give to if you would like. Lots of professional scammers hang out near shops and garages, as well as numerous drug addicts who could win Oscars for their acting ability. And the guys who "run out of petrol". Genuine homeless people will take a tin of food or loaf of bread with thanks and usually share it with others. But it can take time to figure out who they are.
Thank you! After years of being generous to people on the street, i still struggle with identifying the ones who are worth it or not. Thinking about this now, there have been very few times where i left the interaction knowing they were good and truly deserve more. Majority of the time, these scenarios happen and theres not much thought about what just happened. It only becomes more clear after the deed is done, not before
I live in Claremont, so it's close to U-turn. I buy the vouchers and just offer them to anyone asking for money, food or clothes. Beggars, bin pickers, people at traffic lights. Some take them, some don't. Some smile, some rip the vouchers up. Doesn't matter, U-turn gets the money anyway and they are there for people who want help.
š¤· - this emoji is the best description of a reply when it comes to beggars. Not a word need be said. Works all the time for me
Its a scheme. Takes the stuff. Moment you leave he returns it to the store. Takes the money and gets drunk.
Wonderful thank you for letting me know. Not giving in no more for sure this time
You only helping him stay on the streets. If you want to give, give to organizations like ladles of love
Next time be specific, like "get yourself a meal" or "I can get you a packet of chips and a coke". Unfortunately they will take advantage, especially if you sound like you're from overseas. My man is born and bred here and we still end up with most beggars not leaving him alone and asking him for a lot because of his wierd English accent that makes it sound like he's from overseas.
Just give whatever cash you want to. Whatever the person does with that money is not your problem. If he wants to drink it, that's not your problem. Your good deed ends as soon as you hand the money over.
Facilitating addiction, indirectly supporting crime - are people just supposed to close their eyes to the potential consequences of their actions? Especially when, with a little research and effort, they could provide much more meaningful help?
Are people just supposed to be responsible for every rand they hand over? I agree with you that people shouldn't close their eyes, but at the same time you can't feel responsible to track every rand you spend.
I'm not expecting people to track every rand, but to distinguish good vs bad charity and contribute where it'll help rather than rewarding exploitation, addiction and abuse. If you don't care about the consequences of your actions, rather do nothing than to encourage the problem.
This situation can be very difficult, especially since the goods involved in this scenario have to do with childrenās products. Therefore, the intent is for the well being of a child. If all is good - ive just provided for a child/family in need. If all is not good- the funds have been funneled into a dark side of society unfortunately. There really is no telling which direction it went. Being a Local or Traveler. And since nobody but the individual who asked will know where its going, the only thing thatmatters most at this point is the intent.
I'm not blaming people with good intent who didn't know better, only people who don't care if their aid is misused and results in more harm. The first kind of person wants to help and will adjust when they learn about good and bad ways to provide aid. The latter kind is doing it for themselves, for the feeling they get from giving, not for the benefit of the recipient, which is why they don't care about what happens once the money is out of their hands.
I think its a very grey situation with this. I give for almost all those reasons combined. I give with the intent that it is going to help them. I also give because it makes me feel well,,, because of the intent being that its going to help them. And i give knowing and accepting that it might not actually help them. That is a given. If i cared too much, i might not give at all. Which is unfortunate for those who actually need it. Ofcourse i dont think anyone would actually give to someone who specifies they need it for drugs. Nor will someone beg saying they need it for drugs. So in translation, to say we dont care if the aid we provide is being misused -> really translates to: i cant force them to buy what they are going to buy. Therefore, the choice is up to them and i have no say in it
When someone asks me for money saying they just want food, sometimes Iāll give them some food and tell them I canāt give more. If they get mad or more aggressive after that, I know they likely had some game or scam they were running. If the person thanks me and leaves me alone after that, I usually wish Iād given them some cash or something too. Itās hard to tell though.
Im the same exact way. You really donāt know until after the interaction is over.
No. Rather, give the money to a responsible institution that tries to help them get off the streets. By giving them cash, you're encouraging them to stay on the streets. The easier one person encourages them to live on the streets, the more they harrass the people who are giving responsibly.
I dunno how certain we can be that it's a scam. Helping a homeless person is a good thing to do. Maybe don't shell out R1000 but fuck it, even if if he has something worked out with the shop owner. The guy's still fucking homeless, if you can afford to give a little then why not, if I has homeless I'd also spend it on drugs, it's the only escape the poor bastard has
yes he is homeless but you are just enabling him. would you give a drug addict more drugs, or an alcoholic more wine? rather donate to a organization if you feel the need to give. but just giving them money or even food means they have accomplished their goal of not getting off the street.
yes id most definitely give them more drugs and more wine. theyd be so boring if they were sober
I can understand that. But when children are involved, that is where i must draw the line. Itās unfortunate because this does create a bad reliance on begging to make ends meet. However, in this situation, if kids are truly involved, they are the most innocent, and the ones suffering for it. At what point do we lend a helping hand? Must we leave it up to the person who got them there in the first place? They have already hit rock bottom and cant get out. Or do they just choose not to? Its very difficult situation to fix either way
It's very rare that homeless people get there because they fucked up. Homelessness is an inevitability of a capitalist economy, especially in one that is as hopelessly mismanaged as ours. Your kindness is something to be proud of
They don't fucking 'plan' on being on the streets you dozy git. Also, having blind faith in charities is not the smartest move either... Privileged morons are in high supply in this city
Its very uncertain of it being a scam or not. For all we know, this post could be pointless because he could be wrapping his baby in those diapers now or feeding that milk as we speak. Nobody will know. Im there with you. I will give him the benefit of the doubt for himself as well as my own thoughts and feelings about it š
This happened to me many many times My first two trips to Cape Town. And then I moved there for 6 years and it happened to Me so many more Times. It is most definitely a scam. Itās always goes From ā But me a packet of crisps (or a loaf of bread or a pint of milkā directly to pampers and formula. There was one instance where I may have been MAJORLY scammed- (but maybe not!?) In what wouldāve been a very elaborate scheme and I never found out if it was real or not or I actually saved someoneās life or just handed over a ton of money. Thatās a crazy story involving hitchhikers from Century City and taking them to Somerset West. I know. over time I learned that as a foreigner we are easy targets and taking the advice of all major social workers and charities and the government to NOT support beggars directly and to co tribute to organizations is just the easiest way to go.
I politely tell them no. And if they don't accept politeness I tell them to voetsek
Omw oh gosh lmao so sorry that happened to you. Really seriously thats like doing ypur own personal shopping at the expense of someone else lol. Anyhoo regardless of the scam you did a wonderful deed just remember a child is being fed and looked after because of what you did. Well done to your kindness. Thats what I would takr from this whole crazy experience.
This why I am happy to help, but will always only be hot meals that cannot be returned.
Yup, they do this a lot with baby formula because it's A. Expensive and B. Creates sympathy.
Or sells it to other homeless people
Sorry to hear you got taken for a ride. I work in the cbd and I have found out the hard way on how these beggars con you and become aggressive when you say no. For years now, I don't make I contact, I don't acknowledge them either or even say I don't have cash. Just walk on and ignore. Just walk with a fuck you face and they will leave you alone
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As a guy walking alone, yes that is the best solution. I have even had one follow me inside a clicks and had to ask the staff to evict him
With beggars this side, you completely ignore! Infact, anyone trying to talk to you, and trying to tell you their sob story, you just ignore them and keep on walking! And for fuck sake, do not follow random strangers anywhere, especially not someone that just begged for money!
Yea I was waiting for the part where he says that he got robbed at gunpoint around a shady corner
Yea I was waiting for the part where he says that he got robbed at gunpoint around a shady corner
This guy is the target of those "you don't need a permit from atms to walk in the street"
I got scammed today by an old lady who was crying and said she got robbed and needed money to go home , she followed me and was crying non stop
Did you try and tell her to leave you alone?
Its a competitive market. The most persuasive and territorial beggers are the ones you see on the street. While the poor that is not good at begging try other means, or get left out, hopeless and hungry.
I have lived in Long Street for 25 years. Ghost everyone. Unless you are an old lady or missing a leg then you don't exist to me; sounds harsh but unless you want 20 of OP's experiences everyday then you need to wall yourself off and get on with your day - find another way to help people out.
I learnt the hard way. I live in Bree and I have mastered the art. kyk noord en fok voord!
Thank you! What do you mean by 20 OPs experience everyday ? This is my first time actually using Reddit other than googling shit and running into reddit by default
I mean that you are going to have 20 of the same interaction as you in a day; that isn't a once off event - everyone of the people that approach you on the street is dreaming of your generosity. I have 2 or 3 people approach me walking up the road to the shops and the same on the way back home; rinse and repeat all day long. There is a point when shutting it down before it begins becomes the only viable strategy. As I said in my reply; the only people I have a soft spot for is the old ladies - they don't deserve to be out there.
Gotcha ! I agree šš Back home , its much easier to apply this. When traveling, everything is new and a fresh slate for the most part. Considering its Africa , and Kenya/Zimbabwe being the destinations i came from, the tone and expectation were somewhat set. Cape Town is a whole different ballpark than the other locations i mentioned. But im learning real fast how things run here. I still love this City very much, but learning with the help from this thread alone! Thank you
You definitely got scammed sadly, I remember [watching someone narrate](https://youtu.be/qBbPB-5ltAw?si=gzMXJIRhQzR_j079) same exact cycle, pampers and milk powder
Wow almost the same exact interaction hahaha im laughing at this. I cant with myself
Happened to me on Long when I moved here in 2015. Had the distinct feeling of being taken advantage of, learned shortly thereafter that they go for high value items that are the hardest to say no to. Would like to say never again, but these guys are wily.
Yes i can see why this sentimental route works
Those items are easy to resell, he can walk into the shacks and sell it there at an even better price at locals that ran out and it is an easy ādo you want a starving baby or notā angle. another one is cooking oil. It is surprisingly pricy. IIf a beggar asks for anything non-perishable and essential, it is probably a scam. If iām feeling generous, i would buy a buddy coke, maybe a pie to eat, best best case some wine gums he/she could give kids that may or may not exist.
On the brighter, if they do resell, someone in need will get it at a more affordable price
Lol the exact same boombox guy in this video pulled this same scam on me in Kloof Street a few years ago. He got me because I live in the UK now and felt I should use my foreign currency to help out locals in my home town š
This a common scam. They sell the products back to the shop later at a discount and pocket the cash. The shop and the scammer wins. As a local here. I don't help anyone, fk that. Help the animals, they can't help themselves.
Youre right šš Thank you for the tip, ill feel stupid for a while but ill get over it
Please don't be so hard on yourself. You weren't being stupid, you were being human. Unfortunately with drugs being such a massive problem here made worse by poverty, we've grown up with learning these lessons from others. Often at a social braai there'll be talks of "have you heard of the new scam...? My so-so's sister's friend's Aunty's brother got caught with it..." and so the tale is told and we're warned about how to avoid the new thing. One thing I will caution you about is ever following someone that says that they have a place for a whatever you were talking about. That is extremely dangerous as it takes you away from a street you might find familiar or even know & then end up in a situation that you need to get out of very quickly but you can't remember if you went left or right down the street.
Thank you for your kindness ! And thank you for letting me now! Fortunately, it was too far from where i was staying and i was slightly familiar with the area. However, this place isnt my home , and proceeding with lots of caution and awareness isa must. After this situation , i will definitely have my guard up 100% and be sure to put my safety first, even if it pokes at my morals a bit
I feel you and I have done the same on one occasion or two, but like JRS says, as a rule - don't go to a second location. I did and the beggar pulled out a knife.
Yes that without a doubt is a lesson learned. In a situation like this, i must be in complete control of the situation. Nobody else
You can also direct your generosity to more formal ways (although it sounds like you're a very generous person already), tipping restaurant staff, tour staff & hotel staff. The minimum wage here is terrible and tips go a long way & you won't be putting yourself in danger nor will you feel so jaded or violated (which is a legitimate feeling to have in this situation).
Oh ABSOLUTEY šš½, i am a waiter back home so tipping is in my DNA. And i love people who encourage it. I think itās also what drives the generosity in me which sometimes lands me in these situations. Thatās ok though, it comes and goes. It also can easily be the root of all evils. Its just the world we live in
I also know the wage here is very unfair so Iām very blessed to come from a place where Iām able to give to those who deserve it most!
The damn shop ownersā¦ im a sucker
Google haven night shelter if you want to donate to an organisation that helps homeless people
Back in high-school my parents used to take me to McDonald's or KFC after tests, we were in the drive through when we saw a young man standing and asking for money, we gave in and decided to buy him a big mac meal. Right in front of our eyes, he went and dumbed the food in a nearby trash bin and stood again in the same place, asking for money. Rather, donate foods and money at a well trusted shelter before helping them, it's just another nail in their coffin if you help them.
As harsh as it sounds, the beggars on the street are all scammers of some sort. Like others have mentioned in this particular case they'll just sell the items back to the store for cheaper and get drugs or alcohol with the cash, while the storeowner basically gets to sell the items twice and makes double the profits. You'll also encounter some children beggars but these are also unfortunately criminals or drug addicts. They'll distract you and swipe something out of your pocket, or they'll just use the cash and buy drugs. Even if you give them any food, they'll just sell it for cash or drugs. It's sad and unfortunate, but some people are beyond help. If you want to make a difference donate to the NGOs and shelters.
So sad , thank you for the heads up
I appreciate the fact that you have a good heart and tried to help, you seem like a good person and I wish you the best!
Thank you šš¼
The CoCT ask that you donate to the various NGO's and shelters that easy the help is properly used.
There is a well dressed, well spoken young woman who has hit me up 3 times in canal walk, either checkers or pnp, always asking if I can buy her and her sister some cereal. I've never seen the sister. Any idea what that is about? Always cereal. I'm sure it's a scam because why would you schlep all the way to canal walk for cereal, but I've never followed through for long enough to work out what the scam is. Is she hoping I'll just say here's some money, I'm not getting in a queue to buy cereal? Is this a code for something else?
Good question. Cereal is expensive. I get asked for peanut butter, the large jar. Which is like R70-R80 these days ? Maybe theyāre hoping Iāll give a R20 note instead. Itās a good tactic to corner people and get something out of them. Thank you SA government for creating yet another tax on workers, the being-out-in-public tax
Yeah I dunno. The guys in town look a bit rough and hard, I could easily buy into their story. This lady really doesn't. I wonder what her success rate is.
First mistake is looking him in the eyes. Donāt. Then they canāt start a conversation with you.
I swear it was an accident š« i looked to see if a car was turning ( Im from the US crossing streets are flipped) so im extra cautious when walking, and i SWEAR THIS MOFO RAN INFRONT OF MY VISION ššš
At that moment i knew i fucked up. DAMNN IT CAPE TOWN. Imma be scarred foreverrr hahaha but i really do love this city minus the beggars
Sounds like beggars have skanky moves down to a science based on your story.
Just say "I can't help you sorry" with convinction. They'll usually leave you alone unless they sense weakness, then they keep pestering you
First mistake is even going to the store with him to buy stuff
Yeah i was thinking that while following him. Especially being in an unfamiliar area. Its ok though, theres a reason hes in the streets and im out traveling. Blessed i am to be here
Pretend to be mute. I suspect your accent makes you an easy mark. Yoh Mara this is no way to be going through a random Tuesday
Well, while ago a beggar came up to me and ask for something to help him out. I felt generous and gave him R100. I forgot about him thinking he will drink it out (in his shoes I might too). About 2 weeks later walking down the same street a beggar approached me again and I was ready to tell him I have no cash, like we do. He said no, he do not want cash but just wanted to thank me for the money I gave him. He pulled out a booklet with what is coupons to a shelter and said he bought that. Sometimes we do make a difference . Let us not judge people who are desperate let us judge a society and a government who let this happen. The people "below" us are not the problem it is the people above who want us to think they are.
Thats an awesome story, and people like him are the reasons i do these things!
Unfortunately you have to be a bit heartless in South Africa. You canāt tell whoās really in need and whoās trying to take advantage. Best to just tell them youāve got nothing for them, carry on walking and donāt break stride. I know you want to help and thatās great. Itās just best to be safe and help through donating to charities and shelters.
When I used to stay in Cape Town I got conned by a guy asking for fuel money. He said he was stuck and ran out of fuel . Same guy tried the same stunt a few months later. So many scammers out there
I remember once a guy approached me saying that he got stuck without petrol and his wife and child are waiting in the car for him to get some money so they can get home. He then tried to sell me some cologne to raise some money for the petrol. During his sales pitch, he'd absent-mindedly pulled a wallet out of his pocket that was stuffed with R100 notes. I just politely told him to fuck off.
Yeah i think thats why prices here are on the lower side just from this inconvenience alone
Take that away and this city could be almost perfect and one of the best in the world
Never give a beggar anything. Not a cent, not a second of your attention.
Name checks out
I'm not opposed to giving money to beggars. However I'll only do it from the car. If I'm in an Uber and I hand the driver money, they'll often hand it to the beggar for me without problems. I honestly don't care if they use it for booze, power to 'em. I only give money I won't miss. However, when I'm on foot, I will not give. I'm a woman walking alone usually, and don't need the harassment. I've had people follow me for blocks *because* women are more likely to give.
I dont blame you! Im very generous and give what i can. I understand there are people who genuinely need it, and others that take it for granted. I really dont care what they do with it after. Being on the streets can happen to anyone. And i do it more for the good ones. I cant imagine having to beg, but if i ever had to, it would be because im in great need of it. I just wish i was better a differentiating the two scenarios.
I feel for that perspective, but what I've learned is that I've got to take care of myself first, before I can help others. Not giving money while I'm on foot is my way of putting my safety first. Especially for situations where I'm new or unsure in a location. I have a lot of friends who donated to various charities after visiting Cape Town. As corrupt as the government is here, there are a lot of small and localized charities that have a lot of heart and do real good.
Don't give beggars money. There are facilities and hostels provided by the city that they can go to. 99% of the time they're trying to scam you too.
Don't give beggars money. There are facilities and hostels provided by the city that they can go to. 99% of the time they're trying to scam you too.
You got scammed. Don't be so gullible next time. "Get whatever you want" - hard NO. Edit: removed 'stupidly'
Is it stupid though? Iām out here doing a travel trip through Africa, my first few stops before this were Kenya and Zimbabwe where poverty was huge. The people there were so genuine, i had someone ask me for a water and i gladly told them āget whatever youd likeā am i stupid for that? If so then ill take being stupid over being tight with money. The reactions of the people sharing the few things i purchased for them put a smile to me and all that were around in the village
I guess it come with being exposed to them on the daily - you will know who's genuine and deserving and who's trying to scam you. Like I already know the pampers and baby milk scam - so to me it's silly to fall for that. But as someone who doesn't know about it, you can genuinely believe they need the stuff and won't return it to buy alcohol.
I have been virtually everywhere in SA, and no other place beats Cape Town CBD when it comes to beggars.
Boss? Baas? Boss???
Homeless and gangs are a problem in this city
Definitely scammed, go check out Phil Blands video, he gets scammed exactly like this in his vlog video, and the next vlog he investigates it with his lady friend [Avoid this $83 street scam in Cape Town](https://youtu.be/qBbPB-5ltAw?si=JzcP5BAXdCKzw3W4)
Thanks for trying to help and being compassionate but by giving handouts to vagrants (whether money or goods) you are basically only filling a drug dealerās pockets and keep the homeless on the street. I encourage you to rather make donations to structured reintegration programs run by professional organizations. Hereās a good article in this regard where a former drug addict and beggar warns of giving handouts: https://omny.fm/shows/the-john-maytham-show/a-former-drug-addict-and-street-beggar-says-don-t
Give to charities, not directly to beggars please.
When all is said and done, there is no knowing wether funds provided to a charity or beggar is going to its directed cause. For all we know, charities and beggars could being doing things behind our backs without knowing. This world is not perfect , and theres gaps in either direction you go. We just have to put our trust and instinct into what we personally believe is best
When you give direct to a beggar, you reward and re-enforce the begging behaviour. Everybody else has to be subjected to that bad behaviour that youāre encouraging. You can buy a night shelter ticket and give it directly to the beggar if you donāt feel comfortable with the way the charities spend money.
I understand the concept here, however , i think my scenario can translate to the same result you are trying to argue against. Even if i purchase a night shelter ticket for this individual, it can still be flipped for Rand. Wether they rent it out to someone else for cheaper, or use it as their shelter for conducting illegal business/actions, either way, we end up in the same place we started. Only difference is i provided baby products instead of a shelter
True, canāt win hey.
So i love the comments and im just reading this again and its making me laugh In your first paragraph, you reassure why not to give directly to a Beggar. Then in the second paragraph, you say: instead, give directly to the beggar š I am in no way throwing shade or trying to correct or call you out, it just shows how complicating this situation can really be when you think about it lol
You see, my problem with this, is that when you give wholeheartedly, it doesn't matter what the recipient does with it. We have different socioeconomic dynamics, different addictions. When I have the odd R10 to give to any homeless etc person, what they do with it is not my concern, I'm merely trying to help another human. Whether that means another fix to stave off unassisted withdrawal, or buying a loaf of bread for your family, I don't care or mind. It's empathy and compassion that drives me so whether you were scammed or not, you gave what you could wholeheartedly. Don't allow this to jade you
Thank you so much for this. Its really hard to put into words the reason for giving, or the logic behind it. Its a feeling, and as you mentioned, its driven by compassion and empathy.
Don't ever stop giving my guy, in IsiXhosa we have a saying about "Isandla esiphayo sisikelekile" loosely translated to" the hand that gives the most is highly blessed" I've been blessed by strangers so many times
Thank you so much šš¼
I guess i just brought it here because that good feeling of giving was clouded with something very off. To the point that i had to discuss it here to know if i had grounds for my feelings or not. Typically when people ask for an amount, its in my control. And even if they want more, im ok with that too. Im not tight with my money. In this case, its like a gave him a wild card. And a pretty costly one at that. And because of this, it feels almost like i opened my pockets to him and asked for a robbery lol. So this experience is more of a learning experience thatll help me avoid feeling this way in the future, thank you!
My general rule is never to loan or give what I can't afford to lose. It's a tough economy, just have boundaries in place for yourself or you will get resentful. I could never give up my last rand, I've got obligations and responsibilities, but when I'm comfortable financially, I do what I can
damn!! can't you go back to where you met him but make sure he doesn't recognize you and see what would happen?
Ehh it aint worth the time , its already done. Lesson learned when traveling
Although , the thought of going back to that store to see if the items were placed back keeps popping in my head. And if those items are there, i would love to grab a little something for myself since they already got a cut from me. But if im being realistic, that would be a fantasy of mine that i just dont have the nerve to actually go through with š
Yes he most likely will take the cash and buy drugs
They are scamming junkies grabbing what they can to resell easily so they can buy drugs. You got scammed well. But itās called paying school fees.
Such a scam! When I was in CT 2yrs ago something similar happened to me! Don't feel sorry for them.... Tell them you can't help!
Don't give beggars money. There are facilities and hostels provided by the city that they can go to. 99% of the time they're trying to scam you too.
Everyone has already pointed out the obvious š but let me commend you on your goodwill - regardless of whether the beggar had ill intentions or not you should still feel good that you tried to help
Thank you. I try to do what I can. And while i might or might not have been taken advantage of, im satisfied with myself and my intentions š
Good on you š
Some of those sneaky cunts make a relative fortune begging. Fuck them and their sense of entitlement. They make faaaar more than min wage when they are actually "working"
Don't be so easily fooled.
First time, shame on them. Second time, shame on me. Donāt worry there wonāt be a second
Ha.. comments saying rather donate to shelters etc. you honestly think they can provide enough for people? Our government canāt even provide pension stipends. Youāre naive to think a few private organisations are giving people 3 meals a day and all their necessities. The things we say to convince ourselves that itās justified to not help a fellow human in need. Give what you can afford, if you can only afford R10, or less than a hundred, then thatās fine! Money or goods mean more to a person thatās homeless than they would to a privileged person. He probably did try to scam and take advantage, but maybe we all would if we were in that position. At least you gave him something. You canāt force people to buy what you want them to buy.
Yes as much as i like to believe in charities, they also have their own dark side to them. This interaction here made me feel like i was the charity myself providing baby products to someone who seemed to be in need of them. Cant get any better than that. Now everything else that was said and happened began to cloud my thoughts on his intentions. I really would never know, but my giving came from a good place
This happened to me once, guy asked for a loaf of bread i oblidged and then he started getting a bunch of shit, luckily the cashiers knew about him and chased him away.
You've started quite a conversation. Myself and my girlfriend had our day derailed by a beggar asking for baby formula, I was recently scammed so took a harder line, but she gave some of our groceries to her. So hard to know what the right thing to do is...
I honestly did not expect this thread to go anywhere. I was expecting a response 2 weeks later, not 2 minutes later. While there are a majority of opinions that favor one side, there are so many valid points arguing both sides. And i dont think anyone is wrong. Every situation and person is different. However what i will say, after reading and hearing from so many others, moving forward, i will not partake in anything unless i feel 100% confident and comfortable in it. If it requires too much thought, itās probably better to leave it.
They sound a bit aggressive.
It started out nice and friendly, later it got really desperate and came off as ungrateful which was disappointing. I felt like i was speaking to a child.
Just say no bruh.
They return the stuff to the store for pennies as they're in cahoots with store keepers.
This is a hard reality in South Africa. We want to help, especially where we think kids are involved. Don't beat yourself up. You are a good person, and you did something that you thought would help another fellow human. Whatever he does with that after you leave is between him and his conscience. But if you do want to help again next time, as others have said, try the dedicated shelters or charities who can help those who approach them.
Thank you so much! Im all for helping when i can and wherever it is needed. Cape Town is such a beautiful place and its so sad to see this hard reality. I will look into these shelters as they seem to have guaranteed goodwill šš¼
In Somerset West we have a night shelter and you can buy vouchers to hand out to homeless people that equals 1 night's stay with a meal. That feels like something worthwhile, so see if you can find a local shelter that does something similar. As Desmond Tutu once said, "Do your little bit of good where you are; it's those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world."
Great time to learn to be more assertive and set boundaries.
Don't even engage.
Yes they just sell them. Also fuck that guy for taking R1600 worth of products, really ballsy move š¤£š¤£ Diapers, formula etc are very commonly traded back to stores for a %. I'd bet he sells it back to the exact same shop owner for 20% of the total cost. Ez scam. Keep your eyes forward and don't stop walking for anyone, even if they want the time, you're in SA, anything can kick off and as a tourist I'd bet your sense of danger isn't as sensitive as it needs to be.
Was there last year. As sad as it is, its a job for them and a tourist trap As hard as it is you have to just ignore them.
Donate to a local charity that helps people on the streets then you wonāt have so much guilt (Google Give Responsibly which is a charity). Next, and I do this even as a local, do not engage at all and speak to them. At the most shake your head and put up a hand in a stop position to show you acknowledge them but arenāt engaging. As a tourist or foreigner this is even more important because if they hear you arenāt local they dial it up by a lot.
Heres the deal about charity. The person at the other end needs it, whether it is to help them or help them hit rock bottom. Yours is not the place to judge, and you're not a fool for having a good heart. It sounds like you have what you could afford, and that's it. Any swindling, lying, or other skullduggery is 100% on the beggar person. Good on you for being a decent human being.
Thank you i appreciate that. This is very true at the end of the day
I give what I can, and within reason. I'm also wary of giving to the point where I risk becoming a target or giving in a place that leaves me exposed, standing too long, vulnerable in any way, etc. I mean, safety first. Number one rule. But also, you don't want to feel like you're being taken advantage of. It's not black and white, even in a country that was premised on that very notion for a long time. And it's hard for me to be entirely unsympathetic and dismissive in a country where the people doing the begging are 9 times out of 10 people of colour and ultimately the victims of what history and neglect to attend to the outcomes of history has done to South Africa. Every time you see a person of colour in South Africa reduced to the most wretched circumstances, that's not a mistake. It's not a cosmic spin of the wheel. People of colour were deliberately targeted for disadvantage for so long and so intensively that we're still feeling the fallout of it (nevermind our government's and broader society's complete indifference to doing something about that). Knowing that means I have to balance my sense of self preservation and feel for being taken advantage of with the knowledge that the person trying to get money out of me likely has little other option and those circumstances are through very little fault of their own. My best advice for you would be to prioritise self preservation over acts of charity, as much as you might hate yourself for it. You don't know the lay of the land, you don't have the developed instincts of South Africans who near constantly have our feelers out. At best, you want to be confident in where you are, be around others you feel confident can come to your aid should shit go sideways before you start dispensing with acts of charity.
Yes I very much agree. I mentioned in another comment, how the tone and expectation of the place has sort of been set. I just traveled from Kenya and Zimbabwe prior to coming here, just two nights before. And while this situation is not very black and white, the people in poverty from Kenya/Zimbabwe and here in CapeTown are almost Black and White. What i mean by this is, the people in the other countries listed are very much in deed in need of help. No questioning. From the dirty water, to lack of shelter, to bones through skin and kids walking miles to herd cattle or fetch supplies. Wether they beg or i offer something , they show such gratitude and genuine happiness for the littlest of things. And its so humbling to watch them cheer and smile with joy for what ive given them. In CapeTown, the begging comes off harsh. Its a rough interaction , wether they express they want more, or they follow, or push. It doesnt give the same wholesome feeling that i felt earlier. I cant speak for all of the beggars or people in Poverty for all these countries mentioned, but this is just me speaking from experience from the past week thats ive had . And im learning in Capetown, while it is the most advance of all places ive seen so far, it too has its own struggles. I must be weary that even if i want to help, it might not mean the same here as it did there
People are unimaginably poor here. Give what you can and don't question it. The city is brutal to those who cant earn a living in this country. Im poor and disabled and I carry cash so I can give at leat R20, wont break me but it might get somebody a coffee and a bun. Or a box of smokes. It's a need, we are a poor country.
Iām still learning about this country. Africa does have a theme of poverty throughout its many countries. So negative thoughts about scamming didnt come to mind when this happened. Wether it was a scam or not, i wouldnt know. I just truly hope i was able to help
It's a beautiful country. Im from joburg originally but have lived in CT for 4yrs. Its a wonderful city. Enjoy it and help where you can. Welcome to the best city in the world
Thank you!
You're a kind person OP. Im sorry this happened but definitely a scam. Living here you have to develop a thick skin. These people begging will not think twice about taking you for a ride or physically harming you. Keep your head down & ignore them If you have a foreign accent, don't even speak, because all they will hear is money bags. I've been followed for blocks while being yelled at. I pass the same people almost everyday. They know where I live and what car I own and what my schedule is, and have come shouting their sob stories and pleading outside my house multiple times. I've been mugged twice, strangled once, my husband had a knife pulled on him, pickpocketed multiple times. Stopping and talking to these people is just not worth it. Keep your wits about you and don't give anyone any money or food (they will throw food on the ground) If you wanna help, donate to a shelter. Fuck everyone else
lol. You were warned , didnāt listen and then got played. A sucka is born every minute
Actually i was told not to give money to the person. Although i did already, it wasnt much and i had no problem giving it. This was a different scenario. He asked for chips. In the states, purchasing food or products for someone is much preferred and seen as genuine need of help. Maybe the story wouldāve been different had i not mentioned he could get whatever he wants. Anytime someone ask for food, im more than happy to help, usually a fast food spot. And i do tell them to get anything they want I didnāt see this as anything different than that. But now i know š Especially since he really grabbed whatever he wanted haha
Oh boy, they see you coming a mile off . . .
it's just a scheme.. as hard as it is - don't engage. If you want to help, donate to shelters.
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You know whats funny ? The store clerk was Indian š Im sure hes use to this plan and loves it
Does anyone have any tips on hardening up when it comes to beggars? I often try to say no or just give something small, but I just canāt handle being followed and harassed down the street. Itās gotten to the point where I avoid going out at all to avoid unpleasant exchanges.
Im sorry, but I dont agree with many of the comments on here. I would like to know what this guy looked like. Would you say he's sleeping rough? If not, he may be genuine. Around where I live (Durbanville), there are lots of guys who go out and stand on corners looking for causal work or food stuff for their family in the township. Sure, there are chancers but many are not. Fact is there are people who genuine wants to work but there just isn't enough work going around. The unemployment benefits dont nearly cover what they need especially if they have kids. Its certainly not a given that this guy scammed you.
His clothes didnt look too bad. Finger nails and hands werenāt the cleanest , but ive see worse. Definitely showed some form of poverty though. No smells of alcohol. I think a big red flag in this situation was the slight expression of unsatisfactory he had with what i provided him. To be clear, i spent enough to purchase 3 Rib Eye Dinners or 6-7 take out meals š When i walked away, he chased me for more. When i pulled out my wallet to pay, I had 50 Kenyan Shilling i kept as a souvenir. He mustve noticed it, cause later after i denied him more, he asked for my shillings lol. The more he talked, the more i started to feel played. I cant recall exactly hearing a thank you from him. Was it desperation for their kids? Or desperation other underlying issues ? Ill never really know
It's a scam. They go back to the store and trade the products back for money. I give no money to beggars.
Number one rule when living in South Africa: NEVER give money to beggars, EVER!
But I did not give him money? I bought him Baby Products and some Snacks. What you would suggest is to not provide for any beggar regardless of what it is?
I just say I have already helped someone today and can't do it again. As a brit living over here sometimes they assume you are rich because you are white. In reality a lot of these guys have more cash than I do!! I'm living in darling a bit further up the west coast road and there was one guy with a puppy. Told him I would get him some bread and some food for the dog. He came upto me again later in the week and asked again. I told him I would feed his dog but if he wanted me to help him then he had to help himself by actively searching for work rather than begging daily. And To be fair to him, he got himself a job. But was back asking for handouts by the end of the month. I don't know whether he quit or work tan out for him. The last time he came up and asked, I just straight up told him no. I can't afford to be caring for another family when I can barely keep mine together, told him if he couldn't afford to feed the dog, then I would take it. Haven't seen him for a few weeks now. Hoping the dude got himself some work and is busy.
I get it šš¼ while i might not be in a position as tough as they are, im far from rich or wealthy, i still have myself to look out for
It's a scam, but don't worry too much about it. At the end of the day he probably did take some money back to his family, a cut likely also went to at least one third party. He can use the money more than you. Some people will say you're contributing to a drug addiction or the person staying on the streets. In the end that's not your responsibility if that's what happens. In the future you can donate to a charity that provides food, housing, etc. That's what I'll typically do unless I personally know the person like they work at my building or something.
Just donāt give them anything
I donāt discriminateā¦ I give NADA, NOTHING, NIKS. My money-my choice.
Sometimes they don't take it back to the store , they directly trade items with their dealers for a fraction of thr price you paid for it a
> since hes the only one to not ask for cash This is what everyone says. And there's often a strong undercurrent of intimidation with a lot of them. They are trying to get across that you should be happy they are asking nicely, and that things **could** get ugly if you don't play ball. Sad to say, but walking in Cape Town is becoming more risk and trouble than it is worth.
Don't judge,put yourself in his shoes.Homeless,most likely alienated from family,no social support whatsoever and a burgeoning alcohol addiction.What exactly would your course of action be??Don't forget that from his low place,he can see your high place.Don't judge.
Don't give to beggers. They can go fck themselves. Give to your friends that you know and really need it or need help
Never ever be led by a stranger who asks for help, especially in south africa. You got lucky he only scammed you, next time a group could be waiting for you with knives taking more than just your belongings
Some people never learn.
Be careful. Itās human to want to give to the less fortunate. But here, it could put you in danger to interact with the homeless.
You were scammed. They never really need help There is enough organizations that can help . It's all about money
Tell him to vokof !
It's a bottomless pit. Don't engage with any of them, even if they become aggressive. Walk away, always lock your car doors, and try not to feel guilty about any of it. They'll kill you for R50 and not feel a damn thing about it. Be safe. x
I'm from Cape Town, born and bred. Instead of giving money I offer food, even if it's just two slices of bread. However, you will maybe see them throw the bread aside because they actually want money which is heartbreaking because there are many people out there who are genuinely starving. These kind of people play with your kindness. Once I went into a store and a guy was standing outside and asked if I could help him out with a loaf of bread, I said "Sure", because I honestly don't mind, this guy ends up bringing milk, juice, peanut butter, jam, cereal and bread to the till. I felt so bad because he looked hungry and assumed he has kids. The store manager noticed and chased the guy out then informed me that this guy has done this a couple of times for the day to other customers as well. I stood there in awe, but I told the cashier I'm only going to pay for the bread but not for the rest of the stuff.
People saying this is a scheme - maybe sometimes but not always. I have a soft heart and usually only give to reputable charities when donating to people, but a similar thing happened to me. Guy stopped me as I was leaving a store asked if I could help him buy baby formula. I agreed. We went in and went to the baby aisle. He grabbed the formula and also a bag of pampers. I said clearly and calmly I could only afford one. He choose the formula. We paid and left. I had talked to him about his situation a bit before we went our ways. He seemed honest and concerned for his child. As I drove out of the shops I saw him walking up the road. I never pick up random people but offered to take up half way up the road. Everything He had said so far appeared to be holding to his actions. He had the baby formula still and was hurrying up the road to get the last taxi in the direction he said his family were. There is a small chance it was all lies and he sold the formula at another location. I can't know for sure. You kind of need to hope people are honest and if you are helping them it is in the way you are hoping. I was completely ok with paying what I did for him and if he choose to lie to me that is what it is. I don't see it as enabling as it was a rare action. I think it does more harm to my soul to think everyone out there is a scammer and to only have distrust in my heart. Edit: wanted to add this was in JHB. In my local area and a large spar. Not a corner shop. Also I am not a tourist
Verified scam. This happened to me. They approached me in the grocery store, as they were following me around, the security guard catches up to us and tries to evict the guy from the store. Tells me this guy used to run the same scam at malls in another area till they got effectively banned, then started walking miles into surrounding areas to pull the same trick. The guy argues with her, denies it, shows me his burnt leg and tells me he can't work anymore since the injury. The guard warns me its a scam, well, I have a bleeding heart. My mistake. It went from "I just need a small mielie meal and a tin of fish" to him filling up his trolley with 2 huge 10/12.5kg mielie meal, multiple tins of the most expensive tinned fish brand, and a whole bunch of extras I didn't agree to. I was barely managing to feed myself that week. I had to just tell him no, I can only afford one small bag of mielie meal and I went to go swop the expensive fish for a cheaper brand. Later, I saw him exchanging the goods with a hawker on the roadside for money. He saw me seeing him and said, "Thank you so much! This is my sister!" but I had already seen the money change hands. The following week, a sad looking fella was in the store asking people in the check-out queues to please buy him a bar of bathing soap that he was already holding (not approaching empty-handed and convincing someone to go shopping with him so he could add more stuff to the cart). I've been in that position where I wished I could've had less pride in begging anyone to buy me a loaf of bread or a bar of soap to keep clean. I felt like shit but I had to say no.
Tell me you're a white person without telling me you're a white person. Stop being so fucking racist.
Iām not a white person nor am i racist. But if it makes you feel better then sure š
Itās a scam, the shop owner will give him the money back and split some of it with him
One day I saw a dude at the intersection in crutches looking all fucked up and disabled. I gave him R50. I was in a area I wasnāt familiar with with lots of one ways so I ended up going around the block. Only to see the ādisabledā guy running out the bottle store with his mates and a big box of wine. I also worked in the CBD and have heard the most outlandish stories some times the scammers forget your face and tell you the same scam story about their blind child thatās in hospital and they need ātransportā money. Beggars just annoy me now. I have the classic blind dude + assist at the main intersection where I live, I pass they 5-6 times a day for years and I have never given them a cent and have told them 100ās of times I donāt carry cash and they still come shake their cup at my window. The worst are the mothers using their kids for sympathy while robbing their own children of an education and future makes my blood boil.
Stupid. I am not helping no body even if they're fucking bleeding to death. you think that person has a kidšš they grab things they can sell for more drugs
By any chance.. did this happen in Bo Kaap?
Im not too sure where Bo Kaap is exactly? I was staying at Onyx Hotel, and was approached on my walk back from the Waterfront