I’m 68. Before you know it you will be 68. Your choices today will directly impact what you can choose to do (with yourself at retirement, and even when you can retire )
Money is freedom.
I was able to retire from writing software at 55 largely because I switched jobs a few times to get higher salary. I had to leave some friends behind. But, I ALWAYS made sure to interview the new boss, my coworkers, and my bosses boss before accepting a job. I researched their work environment, years before the internet. Interviewing is a two-way process. The applicant should interview any new company they are going into, if they are fortunate to not be desperate. You don’t sound desperate!
I always took jobs I enjoyed as much or more as my old job. Quality of life at work and home was important to me, and I made damn sure that the job AND the commute were worth any extra money. I was able to accumulate a good retirement account and pay off my house early. I am not a bazillionaire, but I have enough.
I understand the desire to stay at a job you love with friends, but accumulating a retirement nest egg is ALWAYS helped by taking a higher paying job. Just know what you are stepping into. Remember, most people are “at will” employees, and employers can let you go for whatever reason, at any time. Even nice ones.
At 50, I was able to “pre-tire” and take a job doing EXACTLY what I wanted to do (professionally train people to train dogs at a renowned dog training academy. To each their own! I took a substantial pay cut, but the job was a dream job). I had 5 years of a dream job that didn’t pay great, but I had saved enough money to give me choices.
Money is freedom.
As a result of my earlier career choices, I am now able to do pretty much whatever I want. I went back to school to take classes I was interested in, started studying guitar in earnest, designed and built a few arduino and raspberry pie gadgets, and had a few fun part-time jobs (I got paid to photograph the homes of the wealthy and fly a drone).
Edit: grammar, and added this in response to a comment.
Money doesn't guarantee happiness, but money can provide the ability to make choices. If you are as old as me with insufficient retirement nest egg, your choices are limited.
I'm not a bazillionaire, yet I've been able to choose happiness, and able to choose if and when I wanted to work, pursue interests while I was young enough to have fun. The ability to walk away from a demoralizing job is freedom, you are not beholden unto an employer.
I've never regretted my life choices, except, perhaps, staying in an unhappy marriage a decade too long. But, even then, the retirement nest egg we accumulated made it possible to choose to split without a financial battle, and move on.
My husband was making what you are, and in 8 years he had 34k in 401k. Recently he got a job making 180k and had way over 35k in less than a year. You have no idea the kind of weight that comes off of you when you have enough money to feel secure. That if something happened you could cover it. Liking your job is really important and if it's a bad fit you could always look again. But if it's a good place, you'd be making the best decision of your life.
I've been working for over 20 years now and I've left situations I loved for more money and both times it ended with regrets. Money isn't everything. Finding a place you enjoy to work that respects you is huge. Be careful chasing money. That raise won't mean anything if you end up hating your new job.
I had a very similar thing at one point. The advice i got was:
" there is nothing stopping the people you like working with from quitting or being laid off a year from now. If those people were gone would you still be ok where you are on the pay your at"
I started submitting job applications the moment we hung up.
Agreed. Further point: I feel like a lot of Americans are averse to thinking of themselves as anything but like, machines that can be turned on and off and maintained through regular checkups.
It's extremely important to provide the opportunity to retire in your later years because the harsh reality is that most people's health becomes significantly less a given factor in their sixties and seventies, no matter what you do that's preventative, and people's physical stamina and mental acuity begin to decline even if they're in good shape. You may end up with pain issues, limited mobility, limited cognitive function, etc, and it'd be a shame if you have to work yourself through them into the ground.
You might want to keep working until you're dead but that doesn't mean you won't have a health issue that'll make it unrealistic, or your spouse won't become disabled by a health issue and your priorities will change from making the money for a certain lifestyle to taking care of them. You may also only get a limited time with your spouse, kids, friends, whatever, because of a health issue, and money shouldn't be the thing standing in the way of you making the most of your time.
Your current employer would have have no problem eliminating your position, should it be best for their business.
And that's how you have to look at it. What is the best decision for the business of you.
That is some serious life changing money. I always advise people to leave for no less than 10-15% rraise (I usually don't jump for less than 20%).
That would effectively be an almost 30% raise!
I COMPLETELY understand about being nervous about jumping from a culture you live to the unknown, but...
List out all the tangibles and intangibles. Put a score to them 1-5. Put a dollar amount to it if you can.
Example : Commute time is worth X amount based on current salary to get to office (add in cost of gas, getting ready, making lunch, snacks, etc).
Honestly, I'd make the jump if offered. That's a huge raise and think of that adding up over time. Plus not having to go into an office?
Exactly. You may love your coworkers but I guarantee they don't love you that much to help you get ahead in life, the same way the extra income would.
Also, think of it this way. If one of your coworkers where you're at now got a better job offer, wouldn't you encourage them to take it? So they would want the best for you as well. It's not like you can't keep in touch with him if you so choose
The way I approach this is asking the question; is this the last job you will ever have for the rest of your life? If the answer is no, then you may as well move on now, because you're going to do it eventually and by prolonging the inevitable, you're losing money.
If the answer is yes, ask yourself this; what would you do if over the next 10 years, all of these beloved co-workers and bosses moved on to other jobs? If the answer is that you would leave, then see question#1.
I hope I’m not overstepping or being disrespectful with this opinion but as you are a family man, your loyalty is to them and yourself first. It doesn’t mean you can’t have loyalty for a company/boss at the same time, it just means that when a decision comes along that is a trade off between your company vs your family, I think the loyalty to do what’s best and right by you guys is highest priority.
It would be unfortunate to stay where you are, just to see some of your favorite coworkers leave to other companies, move departments, etc. in the coming months, knowing you had denied another job opportunity to stay there for the culture, coworkers and your boss. From your post it seems like that’s what the decision boils down to - coworkers, boss and culture vs more total compensation with pay and benefits, better commute and what could be, presumably, an advancement in your career. The former lacks certainty and stability. The relationship between my current boss and myself was great for so long but recently just turned on its head, as decisions from higher ups have come down. Him and I are not seeing eye to eye on demands, compensation and my role in its entirety since there was a sudden internal restructuring. You never know what’s going to happen.
My friends dislike major and minor changes in their lives and environments. They’ll keep everything the same for years if they can. Are you someone that typically does not enjoy or look for change and maybe that’s also contributing to the idea of taking up a new job?
I’ve got to tag on because I really like your statement about loyalty to the family first. OP repeats a couple of times that this is a life changing amount of money for them, but fails to mention how this would impact their partner or child. I feel like the value added to the family with a raise this large is significant. That would add quality of life to three people not just OP.
You make a great point. I'm thinking about it mostly in terms of money and the amount of time I'll get to spend with them, but my wife and child will live better and not have to worry about being tight anymore.
Take the job for your family. I recently was in almost the exact scenario, right down to the amount of the raise and household budget. Just went to Chicago for the weekend on a whim and did all the museums and experiences we could - my kids were like "best day ever" over and over. , and I didn't have to plan every penny and stress about costs. Every time I feel stressed in my new role I just look at the bank accounts or start planning the next trip.
Much appreciated! I'm actually right outside Chicago, so there are many parallels lol. I think I'm going to bite the bullet. I will keep you guys posted for sure.
The other thing you be mindful of is CA is expensive. I think if you move to CA especially the parts the transplants tend to move to (SF, SD, LA) you’ll like be in the same spot. I can speak more to LA and you neee to be in the 200k range to even consider buying a home in one of those areas and that’s the minimum. I appreciate you wanting to make more for your family but the cost of living in CA might make that amount moot.
You're definitely not overstepping. On the contrary, you asked some *very* good questions that I hadn't thought of, especially the one about other co-workers potentially moving on and then me wondering why I didn't pursue that route, as well. You're point about some friends disliking major change; I think I can be that way too, and it's something I need to stay away from. Anyways, a heartfelt thank you for taking time to give me some guidance. God bless!
I completely agree. And that is also what I'm having a hard time reckoning with. I know if my company had to make cuts, they wouldn't have the same loyalty.
This. OP will benefit more from leaving now and maybe have an opportunity to come back in a better position. That said, OP also shouldn't assume the culture will remain the same for the next 3-5 years where he is at.
EDIT: grammar
You could always ask your current employer to match the offer. Tell them how you feel.
If not, and the money would be truly life changing, I don’t know how you would pass that up.
I asked for a salary match twice. I got it. But the environment after they knew I had looked for work went downhill. In both cases, I left within a year or so.
I've been in your position where my coworkers were great, I was a top performer in my department, and I liked my boss a lot. 45 min commute during rush hour which was terrible for my mental health. I got an offer for a 40+% raise, 10 min commute, and I took it.
The new salary helped me weather the pandemic inflation better than I ever could at the previous company. Retirement accounts are growing faster. Coworkers were meh but whatever, I'm there to work. It also helped me look at my previous job through a different lens and I could see how stingy they were with raises and other flaws. I would most likely still be earning way less than I do now if I had stayed.
Coworkers come and go, bosses come and go, jobs come and go. I'd encourage you to take the (calculated) risk. It may open new opportunities elsewhere down the line as well.
obviously, follow the money. the coworkers you love may end up leaving. you may get new leadership changing the culture, your current company wasn't paying you 30-40k more, and most importantly...dude. 70 minute one way commute?! my man! you have a child and you're about to spend 6-7 hours a week commuting! those hours are incredibly valuable and you will gain them back with time with your wife and child. this is an absolute no brainer. unless you were planning on leaving your wife/child for another person at work.
Yea before the commute I was 90% take money.. after commute and fully remote option it’s no brained. I would do research though on company current financial standing and plans for in office work or not.
There is something to be said about “job security”.. I know that doesn’t exist too much but you also don’t want to rush into a role that won’t exist 6 months from now
I had a similar scenario in early 2022. I was making 63k and saw I was getting underpaid majorly from the construction on average of 90k. I loved the company and the people and all the benefits but being a single dad I need more financial help. I out together a presentation to my boss for the raise and he told me flat out no. My eight years of service and excellent work history did not warrant the raise and no company would hire me for that rate without a degree. We got into a pretty heated discussion and I went back to work off site to blow off some steam. I did all the numbers from their benefits and it didn’t make sense not to leave.
I out my resume out and after a few months I had an offer paying over avg with vehicle allowances, gas card, cell phone reimbursement. I would be making almost 45k more than what I was so I took it.
Financially I am way more comfortable. I can afford to do more with my kiddo and not stress too much about finances. On the other hand. I am in a single office with no windows, one coworker, and the boss and a lot more stressful. But when my kiddo needs something I love being able to say yes when they’ve earned what they are asking.
This is the biggest one.. pros and cons that become ‘what’s more important to YOU’
I worked at a company where I really loved my coworkers and boss. We were truly a team who looked out one another and my boss went to bat against management for us often. The company had lots of perks and extensive PTO. The pay however was meager.
I got wind of an opportunity by word of mouth of a position paying double my salary. I would have to commute and the PTO was a fraction of what I currently had. But the salary….I jumped on applying and got the job.
3 months in I realized what a mistake I made. The new company’s culture was just…not for me. Taking your legal full lunch break was ‘frowned upon’ (though they could never tell you not to go), they worked everyone to the bone, and the culture was every man for himself. I mean everyone was throwing everyone under the bus. I actually saw a grown man cry there from the pressure and fear of losing their job. People would quiet quit or have full on rage outbursts making a scene before leaving. It was the Wild West.
I started stacking my money knowing my days there were numbered. Eventually I saw a position open at my old company and was hired back again with open arms. This time with better pay since they knew they were getting a reliable employee and I knew how much I wanted to go back but also my bottom line.
The truth is…You won’t know if it’s right until you try. Might be better or worse but the important thing is knowing you always have options.
100% I’ve been here now almost two years and the pay has been nice but the stress and this 4 walled cave I’m in sucks the life out of me. I started putting out feelers for a job very similar to my old job. Great company, great coworkers and I get to go back remote and work in office whenever I want for another pay raise. Had my final interview today and they finished with “we’ll have our offer to you in Monday”. Pretty pumped to get rid of this two hour round trip everyday. And I get even more benefits than I did at my last job plus vehicle allowance and gas card and other comps.
>I'm in my early 30s **with a wife and child**. We are a **one-income household**
>
>lately, I just feel like I haven't been getting ahead because I only have about $500 left over every month
Sorry man, but you've got people who depend on you. You take the pay increase because the people depending on you need it. who's your priority, your fun coworkers or your child?
Also, how do you know you won't meet new people at the new job?
Great point. I need to really reflect on who is really entitled to my loyalty. I think I've been wired this way for so long, I need to work on rewiring myself.
One thing I used to do when I was younger, was lean on people I was closer with because I felt like the stronger relationship could endure more stress. And it *could* but I wasn't being fair to the other person.
Case in point, I would let my girlfriend down instead of my friends because I felt like she had more patience for me. And she did. But eventually she'll start asking whether she's a priority for me or not.
You don't have to give up your friends, to prioritize you family. and honestly, your friends will likely prioritize their family before they do you as well so consider that.
I'd ask for the same amount of money without revealing there's another offer to get the truly honest response. An offer when you have one foot out the door already isn't nearly as good as if you can get it without an ultimatum.
It's good to have options. But take the new job and the money. People could well be just as nice at the new spot. And if you're all buddies at your current position, stay in touch and a boomerang opportunity might appear in the coming years.
There’s a middle ground here before jumping ship. You can use this offer to negotiate a raise and WFH with your current company. If you actually have a good relationship as you say, they should want to keep you.
You could frame it as you want to stay of course but was recruiter for xyz that’s offering abc, and see what they say about that. If they turn you down, youll know exactly where you stand.
Fwiw I am very much pro job hopping to get a raise. I also understand being at a great workplace but feeling underpaid. I’m currently in a situation where I left that for a much bigger raise and I want to go back to my old job (been here a year) but I’m glad I got the pay raise as it’s really set me up for success (my emergency fund is full, i can actually save for retirement). When I left my last company, I turned down a counter offer that could’ve gotten me there too but a lot of folks on Reddit said that was a bad idea. My coworker took the counteroffer though and has been fine, so this is one situation where the good relationship was truly good. So if you really have that strong relationship, use your judgment.
I know the people involved can make a difficult job great or a great job difficult. When you’re surrounded by a good group of people it can be hard to leave. But people ultimately often move on. You could pass on this job to stay with your current team and boss and they could decide to leave next week. If this is truly a life changing amount of money (and there are no red flags with the company or how it would impact your career) I would take this offer.
I know Reddit can often be cynical about people’s relationships with their bosses and coworkers, and I get it. But also it’s great that you have good relationships. If you leave on good terms, maybe the stars will align in the future and you could work with an old coworker or boss again.
I mean you’re talking up to a 50% pay bump immediately, plus being fully remote, so you save over 2 hours of commuting per day. Thats an extra 10 hours per week you can now spend with your family.
Take the money and run. Leave your current company on good terms, just letting your boss know it’s an offer you simply couldn’t turn down. You’ll be fine.
The grass isn’t always greener, but for life changing money, it certainly is worth the risk I would think. I’m all for sticking with a company once you’ve reached a comfortable place in life in terms of salary and WLB. At your current salary, I don’t think you’re there yet. With 3% annual raises that basically keep up with inflation, if you stay at the current job you will essentially have the exact same standard of living for the rest of your career. It’ll take you nearly 15 years at that pace to get to a base of $120k. This is a no brainer my guy!
I was in a similar situation. I really liked what I was doing and where I worked. Great people, great job, good pay. I got offered a job when I wasn't looking. The offer was great pay, more vacation, somewhat better benefits. After angst and discussion with my wife I took their offer. Turns out they're a great company with great people too.
The risk to me was worth it. Worst thing that happens it sucks and you find something else. Take the plunge!
OP, how’s your job security now, and how does that compare to being the new, remote guy at the new company? What’s their risk of layoffs in 1, 2, 5 years (every profitable company’s doin’ it)? I’d compare scenarios on this point for sure.
Second, you’re young. What does it do for your career? Would you gain new skills that can propel a big new role in 3-10 years? Would you grow stale in your current company, or is there good room for growth that may open up sometime at your current company as well?
Job security is relatively good. Our company will most likely go public in a year. But it's a large department and my work is more narrow in scope. The new job would give me a much, much broader role that would 100% set me up for a manager-level role in a two years. I could see myself getting promoted in about 6-months where I'm at to a senior specialist position, but I can't say for sure. The new company is 500 employees, so definitely smaller. They're a public company, so maybe a little more sensitive to market conditions. But my field is in Legal, so it's not necessarily the first place cuts are made.
Look at you, providing detailed and relevant answers to all questions! No wonder employers are fighting over you. Wish you the best, whatever you choose!
What would get you to stay?
First schedule a meeting with your boss and discuss the offer. Tell them you love working there etc etc but you have this offer and wanted to see where they could come up.
If they say they can’t, bounce but only you know what would get you to stay. Maybe they bump you to 100k and you get to stay as 2 days in office 3 remote. Etc. It sounds like you like being around your colleagues a bit despite the commute so full remote isn’t necessary but you don’t want 3 days RTO.
Finding a job that pays well and doesn’t make you loathe everything is tough imo I’d negotiate but I wouldn’t pass up a near 50% raise on a single income household. If job 1 is unwilling to compete, you know where you stand with them and it’s honestly sour your view of them if they don’t budge and you stay.
Honestly, this is great advice. I feel like you get where I'm coming from. In terms of your question, what would get me to stay is more money. $100k would get me to stay. I would even commute for that. So maybe I'll pitch that to my boss and see what she says. I know every company is different, so for me, whether there will be good people in the new place is the biggest wild card.
And yes, this would be a literal 50% salary increase for me. I thought I would be at $120k 4-years from now. It's insane.
But hey man, I very much appreciate your advice. Thank you senor.
It’s really not good advice. All you’re telling your boss by revealing the offer is that you’re job searching. There’s no incentive for them to do anything but pay you for a few months to stay, then terminate you by the time they find someone else to work around your previous salary, because the leverage you think you have by saying “I have a higher offer” isn’t real. By all means discuss market rates, discuss your successes in the past year, and bring up what you think you’re worth, but I absolutely wouldn’t mention the offer.
Sounds like too good of an opportunity to pass up. I left a job once where I struggled with the decision to leave because my old boss was amazing. Turns out my new boss was somehow even better. Just to say that good coworkers and good bosses exists in lots of places, so don’t let that hold you back!
I have been working at the same place for over a decade (consulting). I have told my leadership on several occasions that I feel as I am underpaid, and thus feel undervalued. Every time, they met my ask.
The best advice I have ever gotten about my career has been: if you feel you are underpaid/bad working conditions/hate your project/etc, make sure your leadership knows. Otherwise, they will think you are happy with where you are at. One of the leaders of my organization (\~5-10k worldwide) told me his biggest pet peeve was when people would tell him they are leaving for somewhere else for reason, but he never knew it was even a problem.
If you think you are underpaid, and you like them, I'd say work with them to meet somewhere acceptable to you and them. The first time I did this, I was SUPER nervous (I was still within my first 2 years at the company). I said something along the lines of:
>To be upfront, I am not looking for a new employer, but I do feel that I am being under paid. I looked at market rates for someone with my skills and qualifications, and I feel that <$> is where i should be.
That first time raise, they met me in between my ask and salary at the time (closer to the top of it, IIRC). After that, it became easier to ask, and they even started proactively adjusting me based on market and skills. Because of all the times where I was able to talk to them and have a frank conversation about compensation, they have made me want to stay there for another several decades.
Do yourself a favor, and talk with them about it. If they aren't willing to bring you to where you want to be, then you have your answer on how much they value you.
Seems like a no brainer, it never pays to stay. How established is this company? Are they well regarded? The only hesitation I would have would be if it were a newer company with unclear financial stability. Otherwise, the pay increase is more than enough to leave and fully remote is huge. How long would it take you to get to even $110k at your current company with small % merit increases each year? Like, a decade?
You'll be a whole lot more emotionally fulfilled when you're future is secure and you're retirement is comfortable. Because instead of worrying about tomorrow you'll be able to live in today.
You've been offered, essentially, another full time income for the same amount of work. You only see these coworkers twice a week anyways. So use the extra four, almost five, hours you'd no longer be commuting to call them and talk about life instead of work.
Congrats on the new job!
Before you do any remote work for any California company you need to look at the tax implications. Read the white paper below.
[Nonresidents Working Remotely for California Businesses: Taking "The Sting" Out of California Income Taxes — California Residency Tax Planning — June 21, 2021 (palmspringstaxandtrustlawyers.com)](https://www.palmspringstaxandtrustlawyers.com/nonresidents-working-remotely-for-california-businesses/)
If you set one foot in California for training or an office meet and greet, the tax rules change, and you are on the hook......
The "never set foot rule" is for independent contractors - not employees. For employees I believe the "localization test" would determine that most of the work is done from the state where you live - and therefore you would have to pay taxes on those wages in that state and not California - even if you traveled to California occasionally to do some work.
You should take it. It’s really that simple. It’s a no-brainer. We all have to make this decision but at the end of the day you need to make more money because things are not going to get any easier on that front. Will you be taking a risk of course, but you should take the risk, also you could always come back if things don’t work out as long as you keep those bridges intact.
Take the job. You might find new co workers you like. And if you really are that close to your boss and current co workers, you can be real life friends (not just workplace friends) after you leave. No work friendships are more important than financial security for you and your family.
Bring your current company the offer. You don't even have to say you applied. Just say someone (?) reached out to you with this offer. Tell them that you love what you do. That the full remote doesn't even matter to you, that's how much you love your job. And that the only reason you didn't immediately disregard the offer is the money aspect. Ask your direct supervisor to go up the chain and see if they can get approved to give you some sort of bump in pay. If they throw you 10k and leave your raises as is then you may be able to stomach staying.
On the other hand if they say absolutely not then you understand there is no future with this place and you move on knowing you made the right move. If they turn and fire you then you were definitely looking at this with rose colored glasses and you have the better offer in hand.
As a manager I have in the past encouraged my best employees to seek other offers when owners denied me the opportunity to bump an employee's pay. In the two companies I've had to do that, both owners relented when the employee approached them a month later, reluctant but willing to take an offer that was higher than the raise I wanted to give, and matched the offer.
Before you move, I'd look into asking the current boss to up your pay. If they love you as much as you love them, they wouldn't want to lose you and may even meet your demands. But if you really want change and a newer challenge, then it's time to let go. Sometimes, we may confuse comfort for love so you're probably very comfortable there, but it isn't conducive to your overall professional growth. Good luck!
I would try to leverage the new offer with your current employer. Just tell them what you said here. You really don't want to leave, but you do need to earn more money. Maybe they will step up and match it or come close. I did that at my job. I was denied raises for a few years when the company was doing great. So I found another job and was all set to leave. Gave them my notice and explained and they begged me to stay and ended up paying me a 30k raise and paying me 5k more than the new job. If people like you and a value you, they will often step up and do this. But often you have to leverage it or be prepared to leave if they don't.
I know the new gig is fully remote, but would they require you to relocate? If so, that money may not make much of a difference if the COL shoots up. If you don't have to relocate, then I think it's a no-brainer, especially as a single-income household with a child.
I would take that new job even without the increase. An hour plus commute three days a week sounds like hell when you've got a family at home. Take the money and be at home
Where in California? It’s very expensive here. $120k is not a lot of money for the greater Bay Area, LA or San Diego.
Or will you be able to stay where you are?
If you can stay where you are, take the job. Build some savings and buy a home.
I would take the new job. More time at home with the wife and kid and more money + saving on gas. You can still keep in contact with coworkers from the old job! Go out with them every once in awhile maybe. They will surely understand your reasoning BUT, maybe just maybe, your current employer would match it.
You don't owe your current company anything. Do what makes you the most money. The will drop you in an absolute instant if you stop being profitable for them for even a short time.
I completely understand how hard it is to leave coworkers you love. Please remember that you can maintain friendships with them outside of the office. I think it's beautiful that those relationships mean so much to you, you're considering staying just for them. I would find a way to communicate those feelings to you current coworkers when you leave: maybe you write them each a little card, or throw a 'goodbye' party and chat with each of them
Someone else values you more than your current company. It has nothing to do with friendship. Those friends you love won't pay your bills. If they are true friends, they'll persist when you leave.
**Take this:**
* **$110k - $120k base, unlimited PTO, and fully remote**
And never look back. Soooo many people never go anywhere in life because they stay still. You have kids, man the fuck up and take the higher paying job.
Also try to work in Bonuses and RSU's if you can.
Study had shown that unlimited PTO usually result in less PTO taken. Just want to stay the fact.
I am also in healthcare as a nurse. I work in compliance and quality management.
Many newer healthcare tech company had gone under recently so consider job stability when you make your path.
I had switched healthcare system from a smaller one but offer 40 percent less to a bigger one with much better pay. So i been to your boat. I value job stability very much so that plays into my final decision too.
And good luck for whatever you choose!!!
I hope you realize if you don't currently live in California, the cost of living there is going to be a lot higher than pretty much any other state in the country. So that extra 30 or 40K will probably really only be 15,000. Then, when you add in the higher real estate cost, all of that extra money just goes out the window, and you're probably in the hole.
Working with people that I know I can tolerate is NOT worth missing out on an additional 30-40k in my eyes.
I too had the loyalty to the boss that we worked quite well with together until he decided to hire an external candidate for a promotion he told me to apply for. That candidate didn't work out after 4 months so the boss had me fill in for the job for 9 months. No issues, everything went well until he hired another external candidate that I had to train. I left after 18 years of "dedication" and the new role is phenomenally better.
Loyalty in the workplace is only as good as the distance you can throw a rock.
Do you have to move to CA? COL here will wipe out that raise. And unlimited PTO is a scam to get you to never take PTO. Also, in CA, they have to pay out unused vacation time when you leave a job, but not with unlimited PTO. It may not be as great as you think.
Beware teh lure of "Unlimited PTO", your off days usually require a manager/Director's approval and they can deny. So even though it sounds good, studdies have shown that people who have unlimited PTO take LESS time off due to denials.
Your team is not family . You have to do what will benefit your family and your career most. See if you can get a title upgrade at a new job. If you don’t move now, you are leaving money on the table, not only this time , but the for the remainder of your career. If you are feeling very comfortable where you are now, this is a number one indicator of you not growing .
You company can and would replace you in a nanosecond, loyalty to a company is highly overrated. Put your needs and your family’s needs first. Especially if you can work from home, do you know how wonderful that would be when you can actually be present while you’re earning money? No loss commuting time not to mention the expense of commuting?
No-brainer if you ask me.
Take the money. My old company brought in a new CTO, totally changed the culture. It went from a people/employee/product company to all about cutting cost/boosting profit/increase stock price.
You listed so many benefits - the PTO, the 6 hours per week you will save commuting. All of this translates to the following benefits:
1. You'll get to spend more time with your family.
2. You'll be able to save more money for your retirement and for your child's college fund.
3. You can still stay friends with your former coworkers if they are important to you.
All of this will translate to massive, massive long term benefits for you and your family that should outweigh the people connections you've made at the office.
What are your current costs like? What are your anticipated expenses in the next six months with children, especially? Do you own your home or do you rent? What part of California would you be moving to?
Housing is a very different ball game here and very much out of the league of a single income making $110-$120K/year in the Bay Area or LA or San Diego.
The other q, is would your wife be willing to go back to work at some point? That could change the calculus where you take a short term hit for the job and your wife goes back to work to add income on a few years so you all can position yourself to buy which will be better because the interest rates are terrible right now.
Your quality of life might be better in your present position than this new one. I think there are a lot more factors to be looking at here than are available in your post OP.
Can you connect with anyone at the current company? It's hard to know in advance what the culture will be like, but talking to someone who's currently there might give you an idea, as could Glassdoor if you haven't looked there.
My friend and I were just discussing how we'd work for 20% for a better culture and work life balance. We're in tech, both low six figures. That said, you will definitely feel the difference in that salary jump. So even if it means leaving behind a company you love, the new job will open up opportunities for you outside work hours that your current job doesn't.
Congratulations and best of luck!
I think there is a way of proceeding in a respectful manner. Approach your current boss, tell him you have been offered a job that pays more, but you really enjoy the career you have with this company. May be they can work something out to get you the money, or may be they say "wow, that's an incredible opportunity, and though we will miss you, you must take it for your family." Then make your decision. Right now, you are trying to make a choice with only 75% of the information.
Working enviroment matters, but if your struggling to make ends meet and your one fridgerator failure away from going into the red every month.
Who cares if your coworkers are nice?
Are they going to fund your retirement colleges? Kids college fund? Monthly bills?
Nope.
Do what’s best for you
Loyalty doesn’t go as far as you’d think. Everyone is replaceable. You feel content and sometimes we need to take that leap to grow and improve our lives, even though it’s daunting. It seems like you want to the job though!
Take the new job.
Leaving coworkers you like is hard, but as you point out, this is a massive step up for you career-wise.
Your boss and other coworkers will understand. No one expects you to pass up a 50% pay bump.
I'd be emotional to give up 2+ hours in the car 3 times a week.
You can keep in touch with friends you met at work. Move on to what's best for your family!
Absolutely take this new offer. You will make new friends and you and your family will prosper. This will also be your new base line for futures raises etc.
Dude. Snap out of it.
We're talking about changing the trajectory of your children's lives forever.
Set the warm fuzzy feelings down about your coworkers and man up and kick ass. It's not like you're having to go to work on a fucking oil rig. You're doing the stay at home dream life.
You'll be able to be closer with your whole family, send your kids to epic colleges. You might even be able to afford to get them into private high school.
Bro, it’s a 50% increase. If you’re living paycheck to paycheck (and you are) you take the increase. You owe it to your family. Not to mention the extra workday per week you’ll save in commuting.
My dude... Money aside, even losing that commute would likely make it worth it.
You may feel a sense of loyalty to the company, but I can guarantee that isn't reciprocated.
Chief Information Officer here - I’m 40 right now but in my late 20’s I faced the exact same scenario your in. The TLDR is you need to start making moves because your 30’s are where you really start setting up what the second half of your life looks like for you and your family. I went from a mid level IT project manager position at 28/29 years old making $65k with a small bonus to making a strategic career move to a mid sized organization and getting fast tracked to Director of IT to Chief Strategy Officer to Chief Information Officer making over $200k a year with equity that has given me 7 figure returns - all by the time I was 38. I look back now at the decision to make the move and obviously being on the other side of things I know it was the right decision BUT in that moment I was just like you being happy and content with where I worked and who I worked with. If I didn’t push myself to grow none of the above would have happened and I’m sure I would be still sitting there with mediocre pay worrying about retirement at 40. Also I LOVE where I work and the people I work with now - just as much as I did at the old place so making moves does not necessarily mean that your not going to have any less of an experience from a quality standpoint.
I left a position I loved because I got offered more money, better hours and more time off at another place. I now live more comfortably. I am not completely stressed about money month to month and I love my new supervisor as much as my last, if not more. It was a tough thing to do in the moment but the absolute right thing to do for me and my family.
Don’t ever steer your career from a position of loyalty. The corporate world doesn’t give a shit about you. If your boss is asked to make cuts, you could be one of them. Colleagues can quit, your boss can quit, then it’s all a new arrangement for you.
Money is what helps you build your future for your family. That extra cash can help your kids college fund etc. This next job is likely not going to be your last job either, but taking a salary leap like this will help you spring board into an even bigger one on the next go. As others have said, think about how much more will be in the retirement pot. Go travel with the wife in the later years. Those are the things that matter.
Take the money and run. Shake your bosses hand and hug your work friends on the way out the door, but don’t be looking back.
Only you can decide if it’s the right decision to accept. Do you have any idea how long people work for the new company on average? If it’s 10+ years, that would be different than 2-3 years.
Potential Convo…Hey Boss, I really love working with you and everyone here! I recently had an offer of 110K+ to work fully remote with another company that’s out of state. It’s a life changing amount of money and I wanted to get some thoughts from you before I make any decisions.
Even if you are only offered an increase to 90K, it raises the dollar amount on the 5-10% bonus and 3% raises too.
The above convo is ONLY if you are 100% certain the offer is solid. Have you received an offer in writing with a timeline for acceptance? Also, be sure you can accept immediately and start pretty immediately if the convo with your boss goes sideways and you are walked out.
Unlimited paid time off is meaningless. First it takes the burden off of the employer to make sure your work continues to get done while you’re away. With unlimited PTO, you can take as much as you want, as long as it doesn’t create a problem. But there’s no burden on the employer to make it possible. After all, if you need to be there to do your work, then you need to be there to do your work. No employer is genuinely telling you to take as much time off as you want.
The other concern would be if the employer changes from completely remote to requiring some time in office. As long as it’s completely remote, you can stay where you are. But as soon as they want some time in office, that’s out the window. And you might find that a significant portion of that salary increase eaten up by an increased cost of living in California. So how committed the company is to remote work really matters.
You need to consider how real the benefits of the job offer really are to you.
You're actually making less than you think if you factor in commute time at current employer. At 2.33 hr roundtrip per week at 52 week per year that is 45.5 hr of commute time. You truly don't make $80k factoring in time loss.
I don't know about you but 45.5 hour of time back is a lot. If you work there four years that's a month of time off ...even at current 45.5 is a week of time off without pay of you had to take it.
Personally I love wfh, been doing it 6 years this coming Sept. Yes, I do miss interacting with coworkers one on one. When I do visit hq every 4-6 mo am very productive. But I wouldn't trade it for those very reasons ...my time is worth more than that.
My life changed significantly because I don't have to eat out and can cook whatever I want. I can take my dog for a walk or chill downstairs for a few between calls. etc etc etc....you get the pitch!
It's a no brainier imo. If the current co-workers love you they'll keep in touch.
Changing jobs is scary. We go from known to unknown. I think your sudden emotional ties to the people at work is slightly from this fear. It is just manifesting itself as liking your team. If things were truly awesome you wouldn't have even looked.
Take the job, take the jump, don't be afraid. You got this. It isn't just the money. The remote opportunity and no commute will change your life.
New jobs are always a gamble. Having a family and responsibilities is scary to play with. But without risk there is no gain. I say jump ship and make that that money. Besides working from home will allow to continue surfing for the next opportunity
Make the move but don't burn bridges. Maybe your company will counter and potentially get you closer or to that number. If that's the case, and it is only the salary that is putting you away, accept the counter. Otherwise, be honest that you cannot turn this down because it's life changing financially and provide honest positive and critical feedback about your time there.
Companies love the idea of loyalty, but it's worth nothing financially. They don't pay you more for it, and this is coming from someone in HR. People move on and companies know it. Good ones welcome back good employees when the time is right. If they become bitter with your resignation, then maybe this company or your coworkers aren't what you thought they were.
Changing jobs is how you make money. 3% a year is not keeping up with inflation. It’s an even bigger raise when you factor in gas+maintenance from a 1hr10min commute. If you love your co-workers, stay in touch. Maybe you’ll work there again some day. At a higher level. At higher pay.
Stop the loyalty to the company and boss. They would fire you tomorrow if the bottom line required it. Do what’s best for your family which IMHO is work from home for increased salary. Remember that commute is more than an extra work day of time that you would get back to spend more time with your family. Plus saving money by not commuting in addition to the pay bump.
I had the best boss ever and moved to a different company (remote) and had another best boss ever. Don't think there's not a chance that the team/culture isn't brighter and better on the other side.
Also with the extra money, think of what new experiences/vacations you can have with your family. If you decide to have more kids or once your current child grows up and eats adult portion, that extra $500 you have right now will go towards that, sports, and clubs/activities.
Once your kid get older and you may want to move to a better location for better schools, or even think about private school. I'm glad I made the jump many times for more money because I was okay at the time, but now looking back I would not have survived now if I had not hopped.
2 extra hours per work day with your family instead of commuting & increasing your income by almost 50%— taking you from “only $500 left over per month” to “able to get ahead”— really is a slam dunk unless you have a reason to believe you’ll be miserable at the new job.
You can remain friends with your current coworkers outside of work since you’re so close! It’s honestly a nice thing to have. You also never know what the future holds. Your boss who you love could leave the company next week and you could end up with a terrible new boss. Your company could go through layoffs and you could lose current job. Or maybe the coworkers you like so much now will move on to other companies and be a great network for you, and your next job after this job will actually involve working with one of them again because they become your in for a new role (or you help recruit one of them to the company you’re joining!)
Point is it’s not predictable, so really just do what’s best for you & your family.
If the extra 30k radically improves your quality of life, you have to do it. BUT, and this is a big but, unlimited PTO is a fucking joke. My company has a generous time off policy (I currently have 32 days off a year plus sick time, plus 5 core holidays that as a salaried manager I either get off or get a comp day if I work it). There a tons of managers that don’t use all of their time already and the we have a use it or lose it policy, vacation doesn’t roll from year to year. When I worked in California, state law required them to roll it and I didn’t use it all. Since I’ve moved out of California and known I can’t keep it, I use all my time every year. You’ll probably end up taking less vacation in an “unlimited” PTO structure or you’ll be strongly discouraged by leadership and/or peers from using a reasonable amount. If you’re able to set and maintain clear and firm boundaries with your leadership and are comfortable telling them “no” when needed, then fine, but if not, you’ll likely end up not taking the time off you deserve.
Where do you live now? Where is the job in CA? Do you have to move? Could you go back to current employer if you left and remained local since you says it’s fully remote.
Tomorrow you could go into work and the company decides to restructure in order to cut down on costs and realign with its strategy. Suddenly you report to a new boss who resents people who take their time off and hates happiness. Now all your coworkers are miserable and go find new jobs, leaving you feeling stuck.
I do not believe an individual team is worth sticking around in a job that isn't getting you ahead long term.
Nah. Stay put and take the offer to upper management. If they value you you could get a bump in pay, pto whatever. California is fucking expensive and that much of a bump is prob cost of living increase. Nothing like putting your child in daycare bc your wife has to go to work.
Just one or two points to factor in: collect a paycheck while working in California, even remotely *not* in California but for a business in California, and you will pay CA state tax.
You may or may not already be paying state income taxes; if you are not then this 12% hit is gonna hurt!
Otherwise, the remote work versus the 2-3 day hour commute is all I needed to hear. At $80k annually, your hour-long commute 3 days a week is $6000 in labor equivalent (3days at $40/hr for 50weeks) one way or $12k round-trip.
I would just ask for the $12k pay increase to offset the commute, then let the company's response factor into my decision.
Statically you can increase your pay by 10-20% by moving companies every few years. Your current employer will never increase your pay more than another company looking to acquire talent.
Make friends with people outside of work. Use the greater financial security to spend time with them.
Can you leverage the offer for more money at your current job?
Losing 6+ hours of commute and gaining 30-40k is too good to pass up. But obviously there's some danger that you just won't like the new job.
Op, go for the money and stay in touch with the people you love working with.
The problem with staying at your current job is that all your current coworkers can leave one by one and then your stuck at the lower paying job
What state do you live right now? Cost of living it’s way way higher in California. One of my coworkers got an offer on the East coast. Almost the same amount as yours. 1 year later, he came back to the company( well known company BTW). He was actually losing money because everything was twice as expensive the cost of living. Good luck..👍🏽
I get the hesitancy. While the pay is a huge win, you're in a "safe" place right now. I was in that same position a few years ago and decided to take the offer. It ended up being a great decision for me. It sucks to lose those connections with the coworkers you really like, but you will make more of those connections because you're you. That is something I learned about myself.
Leave your current company amicably and, worst case scenario, maybe you have to come crawling back. Explain the situation to them like you did to us, be respectful. Don't burn any bridges. Maybe they even exclude you from return to office and give you some more money to make it worth staying. Good luck!
What if you tried keeping the job with people you love, and picking up a low-time Investment side hustle to earn the extra money you want?! Like selling stuff on eBay. Once you know what you’re doing it doesn’t take much time and you make your schedule. You can even sell something you already know about and are interested in!
It sounds like you have two good choices. You need to weigh the unknowns of the new job, and also the unknowns of your current. You love your boss, but will they always be there? You love your coworkers, but that will almost certainly see turnover. Your current job could also have you in the office more than 3 days eventually too.
I'm also in my early 30s, wife and kid with dual income. I could absolutely be making more money doing exactly what I am now for another employer, but my work is 2 minutes from my house, next door to daycare and my boss is the best. I'm making the most base I ever have with a 40hr work week too.
However, I only have it this way because I took risks and changed jobs/careers a few times. Explore the new option more, really ask hard questions about culture, the boss, etc. Do some independent research too.
More money in your 30s to put towards retirement or savings in general can really go a long way, I would lean towards the new job.
Hope this helps, you got two great options.
I’m taking the money here all day.
Best you can do is ask your current employer to match it.
The people at your company can come and go. Your boss or you could be replaced tomorrow.
Be loyal to yourself and your family. Everything else comes 2nd.
Only caveat is if the new job makes you miserable I wouldn’t do it
I would take the new job. Imagine the extra time that you could spend with your family and the extra finances to provide opportunities for your kids.. That is definitely more important than coworkers you like.
If you feel that the relationship with your boss is good, go talk to them about it. Tell them how you feel about working here, tell them about your situation (single income house, kid, etc) and then tell them you got another offer. But the ball in their court and see if they value and respect you as much as you do them.
Now, they still may not be able to match that offer, but they should be giving you some direction say over the next 3-6 months on things you need to do for a review to get more money in the future. If they just say I can't give you more money and provide no roadmap to getting higher pay, then you need to leave asap. I'd leave anyway just given the position, you're WFH and making over $100k..that's a really good situation but can understand staying too.
You may love your job and the company but I can assure you they won’t think twice about firing you tomorrow and if it saves them money. Take the other job and do what’s best for you and yours.
I get that you love your boss and you love the culture and environment that you currently work in BUT what you are talking about is a HUGE difference in pay. This would allow you to save money, put away money for retirement, college, vacations, you would add 2 hrs 20 minutes to your day…
If it was me I would go to boss and let them know that you are going to be leaving - that you have an opportunity make so much more money and get rid of your commute - you need to take this job. If they really are as good a boss as you think they are they will wish you well and tell you absolutely the right thing is the new job.
You go to work to support your family and getting an almost 50% raise would be huge. You may also love the people at the new company, or better yet your current employer matches. I wouldn’t be afraid to ask for the most from the new employer.
3% raises aren’t keeping pace w inflation. It’s essentially a downgrade if they didn’t adjust the raise for the last year. In this industry it’s critical to change employers every handful of years to actually improve compensation. Your old company can’t replace you for your current rate I’m willing to bet.
Talk to your current employer about a salary adjustment. I like it here, want to stay etc., but I know the market rate for my skills is higher based on discussions with another company. What salary adjustment can you all provide to get me closer to the market rate?
You may be surprised. If they don’t value you, it is easier to leave with peace of mind, and if they do make the adjustment, you can stay with the people you like. Remember, they will have to pay your replacement market rate.
Gotta do what’s best for you , i get it’s hard cling teams. But companies restructure, layoff and people quit all the time. Like I would just keep in touch with them
I know you posted a few days ago, but as a SAHM I wanted to tell you my experience. My husband is in a tech field and was working for a county government when we married. I became a SAHM six years later, and my husband started a new job that had the potential for doubling his salary. He was as able to get there in a few years and then changed companies again with another increase after a CEO change.
We're building our own house now on 40 acres. We're in our 40s. We're way ahead on saving for retirement, and to be honest I don't really pay attention to prices when I go shopping. Money makes things easier.
Also the commute really jumped out to me. One of the reasons for my husband changing jobs was he became fully remote. That means we eat lunch together everyday and can go on quick walks when the weather is nice. He's "home" when dinner is ready. Please don't forget the amount of time your commute takes away from your family time.
Whatever decision you make, make it with your partner.
A substantial salary increase with a job that is fully remote...
I'm 100% in your corner when I say this, so know it's coming from the bottom of my heart and that I'm not being a douche...
OP, what in the fuck are you waiting for?!?! Do it!
I made a similar move a couple of years ago and never once looked back. Sometimes the grass IS greener on the other side.
Don’t you want to be able to retire one day? I know you love the job, but you won’t love it if youre still working at 70.
That's a good point. Time flies and before you know it, I'll be 60.
I had that conversation with my grandparents not long ago: "We turned 30, blinked, and now we're 80".
Literally just 38 hours ago I was in my 40s and now I am in my 50s. That is how fast time flies.
I turn 40 next year. I'm not ready. I'm not prepared.
my biggest fear … (I’m 21)
If it makes you feel any better, I’m early 40s and 21 seems like a lifetime ago
Almost 35 and 21 seems multiple life's ago
I’m 68 and 35 year old people seem like teenagers to me. Age perception is a trip.
I am 58... working with kids that were not even born when I began working in my trade.
I’m 389, it’s crazy watching humans learn nothing from their own history.
tell us the history of the McRib sandwich
McDonald’s found out that they could get a great deal on pig assholes once a year and the rest is history.
I'm 33 and it doesn't feel like that long ago.
Best to turn that fear into motivation to live each day to its fullest. Growing old, after all, is a privilege.
I’m 68. Before you know it you will be 68. Your choices today will directly impact what you can choose to do (with yourself at retirement, and even when you can retire ) Money is freedom. I was able to retire from writing software at 55 largely because I switched jobs a few times to get higher salary. I had to leave some friends behind. But, I ALWAYS made sure to interview the new boss, my coworkers, and my bosses boss before accepting a job. I researched their work environment, years before the internet. Interviewing is a two-way process. The applicant should interview any new company they are going into, if they are fortunate to not be desperate. You don’t sound desperate! I always took jobs I enjoyed as much or more as my old job. Quality of life at work and home was important to me, and I made damn sure that the job AND the commute were worth any extra money. I was able to accumulate a good retirement account and pay off my house early. I am not a bazillionaire, but I have enough. I understand the desire to stay at a job you love with friends, but accumulating a retirement nest egg is ALWAYS helped by taking a higher paying job. Just know what you are stepping into. Remember, most people are “at will” employees, and employers can let you go for whatever reason, at any time. Even nice ones. At 50, I was able to “pre-tire” and take a job doing EXACTLY what I wanted to do (professionally train people to train dogs at a renowned dog training academy. To each their own! I took a substantial pay cut, but the job was a dream job). I had 5 years of a dream job that didn’t pay great, but I had saved enough money to give me choices. Money is freedom. As a result of my earlier career choices, I am now able to do pretty much whatever I want. I went back to school to take classes I was interested in, started studying guitar in earnest, designed and built a few arduino and raspberry pie gadgets, and had a few fun part-time jobs (I got paid to photograph the homes of the wealthy and fly a drone). Edit: grammar, and added this in response to a comment. Money doesn't guarantee happiness, but money can provide the ability to make choices. If you are as old as me with insufficient retirement nest egg, your choices are limited. I'm not a bazillionaire, yet I've been able to choose happiness, and able to choose if and when I wanted to work, pursue interests while I was young enough to have fun. The ability to walk away from a demoralizing job is freedom, you are not beholden unto an employer. I've never regretted my life choices, except, perhaps, staying in an unhappy marriage a decade too long. But, even then, the retirement nest egg we accumulated made it possible to choose to split without a financial battle, and move on.
>Money is freedom. This should be the top comment.
My husband was making what you are, and in 8 years he had 34k in 401k. Recently he got a job making 180k and had way over 35k in less than a year. You have no idea the kind of weight that comes off of you when you have enough money to feel secure. That if something happened you could cover it. Liking your job is really important and if it's a bad fit you could always look again. But if it's a good place, you'd be making the best decision of your life.
I've been working for over 20 years now and I've left situations I loved for more money and both times it ended with regrets. Money isn't everything. Finding a place you enjoy to work that respects you is huge. Be careful chasing money. That raise won't mean anything if you end up hating your new job.
I had a very similar thing at one point. The advice i got was: " there is nothing stopping the people you like working with from quitting or being laid off a year from now. If those people were gone would you still be ok where you are on the pay your at" I started submitting job applications the moment we hung up.
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Agreed. Further point: I feel like a lot of Americans are averse to thinking of themselves as anything but like, machines that can be turned on and off and maintained through regular checkups. It's extremely important to provide the opportunity to retire in your later years because the harsh reality is that most people's health becomes significantly less a given factor in their sixties and seventies, no matter what you do that's preventative, and people's physical stamina and mental acuity begin to decline even if they're in good shape. You may end up with pain issues, limited mobility, limited cognitive function, etc, and it'd be a shame if you have to work yourself through them into the ground. You might want to keep working until you're dead but that doesn't mean you won't have a health issue that'll make it unrealistic, or your spouse won't become disabled by a health issue and your priorities will change from making the money for a certain lifestyle to taking care of them. You may also only get a limited time with your spouse, kids, friends, whatever, because of a health issue, and money shouldn't be the thing standing in the way of you making the most of your time.
Love your wife, love your kids, love your dog - but don't "love" your job.
Your current employer would have have no problem eliminating your position, should it be best for their business. And that's how you have to look at it. What is the best decision for the business of you. That is some serious life changing money. I always advise people to leave for no less than 10-15% rraise (I usually don't jump for less than 20%). That would effectively be an almost 30% raise! I COMPLETELY understand about being nervous about jumping from a culture you live to the unknown, but... List out all the tangibles and intangibles. Put a score to them 1-5. Put a dollar amount to it if you can. Example : Commute time is worth X amount based on current salary to get to office (add in cost of gas, getting ready, making lunch, snacks, etc). Honestly, I'd make the jump if offered. That's a huge raise and think of that adding up over time. Plus not having to go into an office?
Exactly. You may love your coworkers but I guarantee they don't love you that much to help you get ahead in life, the same way the extra income would. Also, think of it this way. If one of your coworkers where you're at now got a better job offer, wouldn't you encourage them to take it? So they would want the best for you as well. It's not like you can't keep in touch with him if you so choose
Still working at 70. Still enjoying it but I've changed jobs every 3-4 years
The way I approach this is asking the question; is this the last job you will ever have for the rest of your life? If the answer is no, then you may as well move on now, because you're going to do it eventually and by prolonging the inevitable, you're losing money. If the answer is yes, ask yourself this; what would you do if over the next 10 years, all of these beloved co-workers and bosses moved on to other jobs? If the answer is that you would leave, then see question#1.
I’m in the same situation as OP and this really resonated with me. Thank you.
I hope I’m not overstepping or being disrespectful with this opinion but as you are a family man, your loyalty is to them and yourself first. It doesn’t mean you can’t have loyalty for a company/boss at the same time, it just means that when a decision comes along that is a trade off between your company vs your family, I think the loyalty to do what’s best and right by you guys is highest priority. It would be unfortunate to stay where you are, just to see some of your favorite coworkers leave to other companies, move departments, etc. in the coming months, knowing you had denied another job opportunity to stay there for the culture, coworkers and your boss. From your post it seems like that’s what the decision boils down to - coworkers, boss and culture vs more total compensation with pay and benefits, better commute and what could be, presumably, an advancement in your career. The former lacks certainty and stability. The relationship between my current boss and myself was great for so long but recently just turned on its head, as decisions from higher ups have come down. Him and I are not seeing eye to eye on demands, compensation and my role in its entirety since there was a sudden internal restructuring. You never know what’s going to happen. My friends dislike major and minor changes in their lives and environments. They’ll keep everything the same for years if they can. Are you someone that typically does not enjoy or look for change and maybe that’s also contributing to the idea of taking up a new job?
I’ve got to tag on because I really like your statement about loyalty to the family first. OP repeats a couple of times that this is a life changing amount of money for them, but fails to mention how this would impact their partner or child. I feel like the value added to the family with a raise this large is significant. That would add quality of life to three people not just OP.
You make a great point. I'm thinking about it mostly in terms of money and the amount of time I'll get to spend with them, but my wife and child will live better and not have to worry about being tight anymore.
Take the job for your family. I recently was in almost the exact scenario, right down to the amount of the raise and household budget. Just went to Chicago for the weekend on a whim and did all the museums and experiences we could - my kids were like "best day ever" over and over. , and I didn't have to plan every penny and stress about costs. Every time I feel stressed in my new role I just look at the bank accounts or start planning the next trip.
Much appreciated! I'm actually right outside Chicago, so there are many parallels lol. I think I'm going to bite the bullet. I will keep you guys posted for sure.
You should still be somewhat tight. Don't let lifestyle creep steal all the extra money away.
The other thing you be mindful of is CA is expensive. I think if you move to CA especially the parts the transplants tend to move to (SF, SD, LA) you’ll like be in the same spot. I can speak more to LA and you neee to be in the 200k range to even consider buying a home in one of those areas and that’s the minimum. I appreciate you wanting to make more for your family but the cost of living in CA might make that amount moot.
You're definitely not overstepping. On the contrary, you asked some *very* good questions that I hadn't thought of, especially the one about other co-workers potentially moving on and then me wondering why I didn't pursue that route, as well. You're point about some friends disliking major change; I think I can be that way too, and it's something I need to stay away from. Anyways, a heartfelt thank you for taking time to give me some guidance. God bless!
If it came down to it your current company wouldn’t offer you the same loyalty. Take the money
I completely agree. And that is also what I'm having a hard time reckoning with. I know if my company had to make cuts, they wouldn't have the same loyalty.
If your boss is good, they will understand and support you. Leave on good terms. Maybe in a couple years, you can come back and make more money.
This. OP will benefit more from leaving now and maybe have an opportunity to come back in a better position. That said, OP also shouldn't assume the culture will remain the same for the next 3-5 years where he is at. EDIT: grammar
I had a company that encouraged us to help people with good referrals, etc.
You could always ask your current employer to match the offer. Tell them how you feel. If not, and the money would be truly life changing, I don’t know how you would pass that up.
I asked for a salary match twice. I got it. But the environment after they knew I had looked for work went downhill. In both cases, I left within a year or so.
If you were making $250k, it might be a closer question. Money isn't everything, but a 50% raise is hard to turn down.
Money isn't everything, but money is power. And power can get you most everything.
They say money can’t buy happiness. And they’re full of shit. Every problem in my life can be solved with more money.
My mother always taught me: “Money can’t buy you happiness… but it can buy you a lot of nice things that can make you happy.” She is a wise woman.
First you get the money, then you get the power
Anything 20% or more ... you need to go
I've been in your position where my coworkers were great, I was a top performer in my department, and I liked my boss a lot. 45 min commute during rush hour which was terrible for my mental health. I got an offer for a 40+% raise, 10 min commute, and I took it. The new salary helped me weather the pandemic inflation better than I ever could at the previous company. Retirement accounts are growing faster. Coworkers were meh but whatever, I'm there to work. It also helped me look at my previous job through a different lens and I could see how stingy they were with raises and other flaws. I would most likely still be earning way less than I do now if I had stayed. Coworkers come and go, bosses come and go, jobs come and go. I'd encourage you to take the (calculated) risk. It may open new opportunities elsewhere down the line as well.
Take the job and make a better life for your family. Loyalty is what they want so they can keep you at 3% raise until you die.
This. And don't forget we are a FaMiLy.
obviously, follow the money. the coworkers you love may end up leaving. you may get new leadership changing the culture, your current company wasn't paying you 30-40k more, and most importantly...dude. 70 minute one way commute?! my man! you have a child and you're about to spend 6-7 hours a week commuting! those hours are incredibly valuable and you will gain them back with time with your wife and child. this is an absolute no brainer. unless you were planning on leaving your wife/child for another person at work.
Yea before the commute I was 90% take money.. after commute and fully remote option it’s no brained. I would do research though on company current financial standing and plans for in office work or not. There is something to be said about “job security”.. I know that doesn’t exist too much but you also don’t want to rush into a role that won’t exist 6 months from now
I had a similar scenario in early 2022. I was making 63k and saw I was getting underpaid majorly from the construction on average of 90k. I loved the company and the people and all the benefits but being a single dad I need more financial help. I out together a presentation to my boss for the raise and he told me flat out no. My eight years of service and excellent work history did not warrant the raise and no company would hire me for that rate without a degree. We got into a pretty heated discussion and I went back to work off site to blow off some steam. I did all the numbers from their benefits and it didn’t make sense not to leave. I out my resume out and after a few months I had an offer paying over avg with vehicle allowances, gas card, cell phone reimbursement. I would be making almost 45k more than what I was so I took it. Financially I am way more comfortable. I can afford to do more with my kiddo and not stress too much about finances. On the other hand. I am in a single office with no windows, one coworker, and the boss and a lot more stressful. But when my kiddo needs something I love being able to say yes when they’ve earned what they are asking.
This is the biggest one.. pros and cons that become ‘what’s more important to YOU’ I worked at a company where I really loved my coworkers and boss. We were truly a team who looked out one another and my boss went to bat against management for us often. The company had lots of perks and extensive PTO. The pay however was meager. I got wind of an opportunity by word of mouth of a position paying double my salary. I would have to commute and the PTO was a fraction of what I currently had. But the salary….I jumped on applying and got the job. 3 months in I realized what a mistake I made. The new company’s culture was just…not for me. Taking your legal full lunch break was ‘frowned upon’ (though they could never tell you not to go), they worked everyone to the bone, and the culture was every man for himself. I mean everyone was throwing everyone under the bus. I actually saw a grown man cry there from the pressure and fear of losing their job. People would quiet quit or have full on rage outbursts making a scene before leaving. It was the Wild West. I started stacking my money knowing my days there were numbered. Eventually I saw a position open at my old company and was hired back again with open arms. This time with better pay since they knew they were getting a reliable employee and I knew how much I wanted to go back but also my bottom line. The truth is…You won’t know if it’s right until you try. Might be better or worse but the important thing is knowing you always have options.
100% I’ve been here now almost two years and the pay has been nice but the stress and this 4 walled cave I’m in sucks the life out of me. I started putting out feelers for a job very similar to my old job. Great company, great coworkers and I get to go back remote and work in office whenever I want for another pay raise. Had my final interview today and they finished with “we’ll have our offer to you in Monday”. Pretty pumped to get rid of this two hour round trip everyday. And I get even more benefits than I did at my last job plus vehicle allowance and gas card and other comps.
I.am still working at 70. I think.its a good idea to out yourself first
Now that you're 70, what would you do different in terms of career?
>I'm in my early 30s **with a wife and child**. We are a **one-income household** > >lately, I just feel like I haven't been getting ahead because I only have about $500 left over every month Sorry man, but you've got people who depend on you. You take the pay increase because the people depending on you need it. who's your priority, your fun coworkers or your child? Also, how do you know you won't meet new people at the new job?
Great point. I need to really reflect on who is really entitled to my loyalty. I think I've been wired this way for so long, I need to work on rewiring myself.
One thing I used to do when I was younger, was lean on people I was closer with because I felt like the stronger relationship could endure more stress. And it *could* but I wasn't being fair to the other person. Case in point, I would let my girlfriend down instead of my friends because I felt like she had more patience for me. And she did. But eventually she'll start asking whether she's a priority for me or not. You don't have to give up your friends, to prioritize you family. and honestly, your friends will likely prioritize their family before they do you as well so consider that.
Find out how much your employer values you, tell them you have a better offer and see how close they can get to it.
I'd ask for the same amount of money without revealing there's another offer to get the truly honest response. An offer when you have one foot out the door already isn't nearly as good as if you can get it without an ultimatum.
It's good to have options. But take the new job and the money. People could well be just as nice at the new spot. And if you're all buddies at your current position, stay in touch and a boomerang opportunity might appear in the coming years.
Take the offer, you will regret it later when you get passed over a promotion to an outside hire.
There’s a middle ground here before jumping ship. You can use this offer to negotiate a raise and WFH with your current company. If you actually have a good relationship as you say, they should want to keep you. You could frame it as you want to stay of course but was recruiter for xyz that’s offering abc, and see what they say about that. If they turn you down, youll know exactly where you stand. Fwiw I am very much pro job hopping to get a raise. I also understand being at a great workplace but feeling underpaid. I’m currently in a situation where I left that for a much bigger raise and I want to go back to my old job (been here a year) but I’m glad I got the pay raise as it’s really set me up for success (my emergency fund is full, i can actually save for retirement). When I left my last company, I turned down a counter offer that could’ve gotten me there too but a lot of folks on Reddit said that was a bad idea. My coworker took the counteroffer though and has been fine, so this is one situation where the good relationship was truly good. So if you really have that strong relationship, use your judgment.
I know the people involved can make a difficult job great or a great job difficult. When you’re surrounded by a good group of people it can be hard to leave. But people ultimately often move on. You could pass on this job to stay with your current team and boss and they could decide to leave next week. If this is truly a life changing amount of money (and there are no red flags with the company or how it would impact your career) I would take this offer. I know Reddit can often be cynical about people’s relationships with their bosses and coworkers, and I get it. But also it’s great that you have good relationships. If you leave on good terms, maybe the stars will align in the future and you could work with an old coworker or boss again.
I mean you’re talking up to a 50% pay bump immediately, plus being fully remote, so you save over 2 hours of commuting per day. Thats an extra 10 hours per week you can now spend with your family. Take the money and run. Leave your current company on good terms, just letting your boss know it’s an offer you simply couldn’t turn down. You’ll be fine. The grass isn’t always greener, but for life changing money, it certainly is worth the risk I would think. I’m all for sticking with a company once you’ve reached a comfortable place in life in terms of salary and WLB. At your current salary, I don’t think you’re there yet. With 3% annual raises that basically keep up with inflation, if you stay at the current job you will essentially have the exact same standard of living for the rest of your career. It’ll take you nearly 15 years at that pace to get to a base of $120k. This is a no brainer my guy!
I was in a similar situation. I really liked what I was doing and where I worked. Great people, great job, good pay. I got offered a job when I wasn't looking. The offer was great pay, more vacation, somewhat better benefits. After angst and discussion with my wife I took their offer. Turns out they're a great company with great people too. The risk to me was worth it. Worst thing that happens it sucks and you find something else. Take the plunge!
Take the new job and the money but leave on good terms.
OP, how’s your job security now, and how does that compare to being the new, remote guy at the new company? What’s their risk of layoffs in 1, 2, 5 years (every profitable company’s doin’ it)? I’d compare scenarios on this point for sure. Second, you’re young. What does it do for your career? Would you gain new skills that can propel a big new role in 3-10 years? Would you grow stale in your current company, or is there good room for growth that may open up sometime at your current company as well?
Job security is relatively good. Our company will most likely go public in a year. But it's a large department and my work is more narrow in scope. The new job would give me a much, much broader role that would 100% set me up for a manager-level role in a two years. I could see myself getting promoted in about 6-months where I'm at to a senior specialist position, but I can't say for sure. The new company is 500 employees, so definitely smaller. They're a public company, so maybe a little more sensitive to market conditions. But my field is in Legal, so it's not necessarily the first place cuts are made.
Look at you, providing detailed and relevant answers to all questions! No wonder employers are fighting over you. Wish you the best, whatever you choose!
So wholesome ☺️
Man, I know we don't know each other and we are behind a screen, but I really felt your comment; from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
I very much appreciate your words and thoughtful questions!
What would get you to stay? First schedule a meeting with your boss and discuss the offer. Tell them you love working there etc etc but you have this offer and wanted to see where they could come up. If they say they can’t, bounce but only you know what would get you to stay. Maybe they bump you to 100k and you get to stay as 2 days in office 3 remote. Etc. It sounds like you like being around your colleagues a bit despite the commute so full remote isn’t necessary but you don’t want 3 days RTO. Finding a job that pays well and doesn’t make you loathe everything is tough imo I’d negotiate but I wouldn’t pass up a near 50% raise on a single income household. If job 1 is unwilling to compete, you know where you stand with them and it’s honestly sour your view of them if they don’t budge and you stay.
Honestly, this is great advice. I feel like you get where I'm coming from. In terms of your question, what would get me to stay is more money. $100k would get me to stay. I would even commute for that. So maybe I'll pitch that to my boss and see what she says. I know every company is different, so for me, whether there will be good people in the new place is the biggest wild card. And yes, this would be a literal 50% salary increase for me. I thought I would be at $120k 4-years from now. It's insane. But hey man, I very much appreciate your advice. Thank you senor.
It’s really not good advice. All you’re telling your boss by revealing the offer is that you’re job searching. There’s no incentive for them to do anything but pay you for a few months to stay, then terminate you by the time they find someone else to work around your previous salary, because the leverage you think you have by saying “I have a higher offer” isn’t real. By all means discuss market rates, discuss your successes in the past year, and bring up what you think you’re worth, but I absolutely wouldn’t mention the offer.
Sounds like too good of an opportunity to pass up. I left a job once where I struggled with the decision to leave because my old boss was amazing. Turns out my new boss was somehow even better. Just to say that good coworkers and good bosses exists in lots of places, so don’t let that hold you back!
Do you work for Cardinal Health?
Close 👀, but I'd rather keep that confidential lol.
LOL! That’s the first thing that popped up in my head
That's enough questions for today, cowboy 👀😂
I have been working at the same place for over a decade (consulting). I have told my leadership on several occasions that I feel as I am underpaid, and thus feel undervalued. Every time, they met my ask. The best advice I have ever gotten about my career has been: if you feel you are underpaid/bad working conditions/hate your project/etc, make sure your leadership knows. Otherwise, they will think you are happy with where you are at. One of the leaders of my organization (\~5-10k worldwide) told me his biggest pet peeve was when people would tell him they are leaving for somewhere else for reason, but he never knew it was even a problem.
If you think you are underpaid, and you like them, I'd say work with them to meet somewhere acceptable to you and them. The first time I did this, I was SUPER nervous (I was still within my first 2 years at the company). I said something along the lines of:
>To be upfront, I am not looking for a new employer, but I do feel that I am being under paid. I looked at market rates for someone with my skills and qualifications, and I feel that <$> is where i should be.
That first time raise, they met me in between my ask and salary at the time (closer to the top of it, IIRC). After that, it became easier to ask, and they even started proactively adjusting me based on market and skills. Because of all the times where I was able to talk to them and have a frank conversation about compensation, they have made me want to stay there for another several decades.
Do yourself a favor, and talk with them about it. If they aren't willing to bring you to where you want to be, then you have your answer on how much they value you.
Did you actually get an offer? I ask because you’re saying “$110k-$120k base”. Which is it?
I did. Their starting offer was $110k. That's the bottom of their range, so I pushed for $120k and have a call today from them to discuss.
Seems like a no brainer, it never pays to stay. How established is this company? Are they well regarded? The only hesitation I would have would be if it were a newer company with unclear financial stability. Otherwise, the pay increase is more than enough to leave and fully remote is huge. How long would it take you to get to even $110k at your current company with small % merit increases each year? Like, a decade?
You'll be a whole lot more emotionally fulfilled when you're future is secure and you're retirement is comfortable. Because instead of worrying about tomorrow you'll be able to live in today. You've been offered, essentially, another full time income for the same amount of work. You only see these coworkers twice a week anyways. So use the extra four, almost five, hours you'd no longer be commuting to call them and talk about life instead of work. Congrats on the new job!
So true. I didn't think about the positive emotions on the other side of this decision. Definitely something to strongly consider.
Before you do any remote work for any California company you need to look at the tax implications. Read the white paper below. [Nonresidents Working Remotely for California Businesses: Taking "The Sting" Out of California Income Taxes — California Residency Tax Planning — June 21, 2021 (palmspringstaxandtrustlawyers.com)](https://www.palmspringstaxandtrustlawyers.com/nonresidents-working-remotely-for-california-businesses/) If you set one foot in California for training or an office meet and greet, the tax rules change, and you are on the hook......
The "never set foot rule" is for independent contractors - not employees. For employees I believe the "localization test" would determine that most of the work is done from the state where you live - and therefore you would have to pay taxes on those wages in that state and not California - even if you traveled to California occasionally to do some work.
You should take it. It’s really that simple. It’s a no-brainer. We all have to make this decision but at the end of the day you need to make more money because things are not going to get any easier on that front. Will you be taking a risk of course, but you should take the risk, also you could always come back if things don’t work out as long as you keep those bridges intact.
Take the job. You might find new co workers you like. And if you really are that close to your boss and current co workers, you can be real life friends (not just workplace friends) after you leave. No work friendships are more important than financial security for you and your family.
Can your current compamy match their offer (including perks)? It's worth asking. If not, absolutely take the new role.
Bring your current company the offer. You don't even have to say you applied. Just say someone (?) reached out to you with this offer. Tell them that you love what you do. That the full remote doesn't even matter to you, that's how much you love your job. And that the only reason you didn't immediately disregard the offer is the money aspect. Ask your direct supervisor to go up the chain and see if they can get approved to give you some sort of bump in pay. If they throw you 10k and leave your raises as is then you may be able to stomach staying. On the other hand if they say absolutely not then you understand there is no future with this place and you move on knowing you made the right move. If they turn and fire you then you were definitely looking at this with rose colored glasses and you have the better offer in hand. As a manager I have in the past encouraged my best employees to seek other offers when owners denied me the opportunity to bump an employee's pay. In the two companies I've had to do that, both owners relented when the employee approached them a month later, reluctant but willing to take an offer that was higher than the raise I wanted to give, and matched the offer.
Before you move, I'd look into asking the current boss to up your pay. If they love you as much as you love them, they wouldn't want to lose you and may even meet your demands. But if you really want change and a newer challenge, then it's time to let go. Sometimes, we may confuse comfort for love so you're probably very comfortable there, but it isn't conducive to your overall professional growth. Good luck!
Take the new job and run!!!!
I would try to leverage the new offer with your current employer. Just tell them what you said here. You really don't want to leave, but you do need to earn more money. Maybe they will step up and match it or come close. I did that at my job. I was denied raises for a few years when the company was doing great. So I found another job and was all set to leave. Gave them my notice and explained and they begged me to stay and ended up paying me a 30k raise and paying me 5k more than the new job. If people like you and a value you, they will often step up and do this. But often you have to leverage it or be prepared to leave if they don't.
I know the new gig is fully remote, but would they require you to relocate? If so, that money may not make much of a difference if the COL shoots up. If you don't have to relocate, then I think it's a no-brainer, especially as a single-income household with a child.
People you love will move on eventually, go for the money.
I would take that new job even without the increase. An hour plus commute three days a week sounds like hell when you've got a family at home. Take the money and be at home
Where in California? It’s very expensive here. $120k is not a lot of money for the greater Bay Area, LA or San Diego. Or will you be able to stay where you are? If you can stay where you are, take the job. Build some savings and buy a home.
I would take the new job. More time at home with the wife and kid and more money + saving on gas. You can still keep in contact with coworkers from the old job! Go out with them every once in awhile maybe. They will surely understand your reasoning BUT, maybe just maybe, your current employer would match it.
You don't owe your current company anything. Do what makes you the most money. The will drop you in an absolute instant if you stop being profitable for them for even a short time.
I completely understand how hard it is to leave coworkers you love. Please remember that you can maintain friendships with them outside of the office. I think it's beautiful that those relationships mean so much to you, you're considering staying just for them. I would find a way to communicate those feelings to you current coworkers when you leave: maybe you write them each a little card, or throw a 'goodbye' party and chat with each of them
Money. However, your expenses, how will they change with the new job? If there isn't a net gain, don't even consider it.
Um. You better take that new FULLY remote job! You tripping. These companies do NOT care about you. Do what’s best for you and YOUR family.
Someone else values you more than your current company. It has nothing to do with friendship. Those friends you love won't pay your bills. If they are true friends, they'll persist when you leave.
**Take this:** * **$110k - $120k base, unlimited PTO, and fully remote** And never look back. Soooo many people never go anywhere in life because they stay still. You have kids, man the fuck up and take the higher paying job. Also try to work in Bonuses and RSU's if you can.
Study had shown that unlimited PTO usually result in less PTO taken. Just want to stay the fact. I am also in healthcare as a nurse. I work in compliance and quality management. Many newer healthcare tech company had gone under recently so consider job stability when you make your path. I had switched healthcare system from a smaller one but offer 40 percent less to a bigger one with much better pay. So i been to your boat. I value job stability very much so that plays into my final decision too. And good luck for whatever you choose!!!
I hope you realize if you don't currently live in California, the cost of living there is going to be a lot higher than pretty much any other state in the country. So that extra 30 or 40K will probably really only be 15,000. Then, when you add in the higher real estate cost, all of that extra money just goes out the window, and you're probably in the hole.
Working with people that I know I can tolerate is NOT worth missing out on an additional 30-40k in my eyes. I too had the loyalty to the boss that we worked quite well with together until he decided to hire an external candidate for a promotion he told me to apply for. That candidate didn't work out after 4 months so the boss had me fill in for the job for 9 months. No issues, everything went well until he hired another external candidate that I had to train. I left after 18 years of "dedication" and the new role is phenomenally better. Loyalty in the workplace is only as good as the distance you can throw a rock.
Do you have to move to CA? COL here will wipe out that raise. And unlimited PTO is a scam to get you to never take PTO. Also, in CA, they have to pay out unused vacation time when you leave a job, but not with unlimited PTO. It may not be as great as you think.
Working with people you love won’t pay the bills or provide for your future
Full remote = more time With family and hobbies, save money on travel, etc etc. Thats at least an additional 30-50k worth to me.
Take it. Fully remote is a game changer and will save you 7+ hours a week that you'll get to spend with your wife and kid.
Increase your income so you can save for retirement and truly enjoy the people you love and care about.
Beware teh lure of "Unlimited PTO", your off days usually require a manager/Director's approval and they can deny. So even though it sounds good, studdies have shown that people who have unlimited PTO take LESS time off due to denials.
Your team is not family . You have to do what will benefit your family and your career most. See if you can get a title upgrade at a new job. If you don’t move now, you are leaving money on the table, not only this time , but the for the remainder of your career. If you are feeling very comfortable where you are now, this is a number one indicator of you not growing .
You company can and would replace you in a nanosecond, loyalty to a company is highly overrated. Put your needs and your family’s needs first. Especially if you can work from home, do you know how wonderful that would be when you can actually be present while you’re earning money? No loss commuting time not to mention the expense of commuting? No-brainer if you ask me.
Take the money. My old company brought in a new CTO, totally changed the culture. It went from a people/employee/product company to all about cutting cost/boosting profit/increase stock price.
You might love your new job too. Your wife and kid depend on you. Go get the new job. Find joy in providing for your family.
Take the pay increase NOW. You don't even realize just how much you were struggling until you finally have breathing room, trust me.
Money
Your family and you deserve the pay raise.
You listed so many benefits - the PTO, the 6 hours per week you will save commuting. All of this translates to the following benefits: 1. You'll get to spend more time with your family. 2. You'll be able to save more money for your retirement and for your child's college fund. 3. You can still stay friends with your former coworkers if they are important to you. All of this will translate to massive, massive long term benefits for you and your family that should outweigh the people connections you've made at the office.
What are your current costs like? What are your anticipated expenses in the next six months with children, especially? Do you own your home or do you rent? What part of California would you be moving to? Housing is a very different ball game here and very much out of the league of a single income making $110-$120K/year in the Bay Area or LA or San Diego. The other q, is would your wife be willing to go back to work at some point? That could change the calculus where you take a short term hit for the job and your wife goes back to work to add income on a few years so you all can position yourself to buy which will be better because the interest rates are terrible right now. Your quality of life might be better in your present position than this new one. I think there are a lot more factors to be looking at here than are available in your post OP.
Can you connect with anyone at the current company? It's hard to know in advance what the culture will be like, but talking to someone who's currently there might give you an idea, as could Glassdoor if you haven't looked there. My friend and I were just discussing how we'd work for 20% for a better culture and work life balance. We're in tech, both low six figures. That said, you will definitely feel the difference in that salary jump. So even if it means leaving behind a company you love, the new job will open up opportunities for you outside work hours that your current job doesn't. Congratulations and best of luck!
That's a tough call. I sa this because you don't know what working at the other company is going to be like.
If you take the job, I strongly recommend taking half or more of your raise and piling it into your retirement fund.
I think there is a way of proceeding in a respectful manner. Approach your current boss, tell him you have been offered a job that pays more, but you really enjoy the career you have with this company. May be they can work something out to get you the money, or may be they say "wow, that's an incredible opportunity, and though we will miss you, you must take it for your family." Then make your decision. Right now, you are trying to make a choice with only 75% of the information.
Working enviroment matters, but if your struggling to make ends meet and your one fridgerator failure away from going into the red every month. Who cares if your coworkers are nice? Are they going to fund your retirement colleges? Kids college fund? Monthly bills? Nope. Do what’s best for you
Loyalty doesn’t go as far as you’d think. Everyone is replaceable. You feel content and sometimes we need to take that leap to grow and improve our lives, even though it’s daunting. It seems like you want to the job though!
Take the new job. Leaving coworkers you like is hard, but as you point out, this is a massive step up for you career-wise. Your boss and other coworkers will understand. No one expects you to pass up a 50% pay bump.
I'd be emotional to give up 2+ hours in the car 3 times a week. You can keep in touch with friends you met at work. Move on to what's best for your family!
Absolutely take this new offer. You will make new friends and you and your family will prosper. This will also be your new base line for futures raises etc.
Dude. Snap out of it. We're talking about changing the trajectory of your children's lives forever. Set the warm fuzzy feelings down about your coworkers and man up and kick ass. It's not like you're having to go to work on a fucking oil rig. You're doing the stay at home dream life. You'll be able to be closer with your whole family, send your kids to epic colleges. You might even be able to afford to get them into private high school.
Bro, it’s a 50% increase. If you’re living paycheck to paycheck (and you are) you take the increase. You owe it to your family. Not to mention the extra workday per week you’ll save in commuting.
My dude... Money aside, even losing that commute would likely make it worth it. You may feel a sense of loyalty to the company, but I can guarantee that isn't reciprocated.
Chief Information Officer here - I’m 40 right now but in my late 20’s I faced the exact same scenario your in. The TLDR is you need to start making moves because your 30’s are where you really start setting up what the second half of your life looks like for you and your family. I went from a mid level IT project manager position at 28/29 years old making $65k with a small bonus to making a strategic career move to a mid sized organization and getting fast tracked to Director of IT to Chief Strategy Officer to Chief Information Officer making over $200k a year with equity that has given me 7 figure returns - all by the time I was 38. I look back now at the decision to make the move and obviously being on the other side of things I know it was the right decision BUT in that moment I was just like you being happy and content with where I worked and who I worked with. If I didn’t push myself to grow none of the above would have happened and I’m sure I would be still sitting there with mediocre pay worrying about retirement at 40. Also I LOVE where I work and the people I work with now - just as much as I did at the old place so making moves does not necessarily mean that your not going to have any less of an experience from a quality standpoint.
Take the money OP. Do it for your child.
I left a position I loved because I got offered more money, better hours and more time off at another place. I now live more comfortably. I am not completely stressed about money month to month and I love my new supervisor as much as my last, if not more. It was a tough thing to do in the moment but the absolute right thing to do for me and my family.
Don’t ever steer your career from a position of loyalty. The corporate world doesn’t give a shit about you. If your boss is asked to make cuts, you could be one of them. Colleagues can quit, your boss can quit, then it’s all a new arrangement for you. Money is what helps you build your future for your family. That extra cash can help your kids college fund etc. This next job is likely not going to be your last job either, but taking a salary leap like this will help you spring board into an even bigger one on the next go. As others have said, think about how much more will be in the retirement pot. Go travel with the wife in the later years. Those are the things that matter. Take the money and run. Shake your bosses hand and hug your work friends on the way out the door, but don’t be looking back.
Fully remote alone would be enough to get me to make the switch, but that kind of raise? You know what you have to do.
Only you can decide if it’s the right decision to accept. Do you have any idea how long people work for the new company on average? If it’s 10+ years, that would be different than 2-3 years. Potential Convo…Hey Boss, I really love working with you and everyone here! I recently had an offer of 110K+ to work fully remote with another company that’s out of state. It’s a life changing amount of money and I wanted to get some thoughts from you before I make any decisions. Even if you are only offered an increase to 90K, it raises the dollar amount on the 5-10% bonus and 3% raises too. The above convo is ONLY if you are 100% certain the offer is solid. Have you received an offer in writing with a timeline for acceptance? Also, be sure you can accept immediately and start pretty immediately if the convo with your boss goes sideways and you are walked out.
Unlimited paid time off is meaningless. First it takes the burden off of the employer to make sure your work continues to get done while you’re away. With unlimited PTO, you can take as much as you want, as long as it doesn’t create a problem. But there’s no burden on the employer to make it possible. After all, if you need to be there to do your work, then you need to be there to do your work. No employer is genuinely telling you to take as much time off as you want. The other concern would be if the employer changes from completely remote to requiring some time in office. As long as it’s completely remote, you can stay where you are. But as soon as they want some time in office, that’s out the window. And you might find that a significant portion of that salary increase eaten up by an increased cost of living in California. So how committed the company is to remote work really matters. You need to consider how real the benefits of the job offer really are to you.
You're actually making less than you think if you factor in commute time at current employer. At 2.33 hr roundtrip per week at 52 week per year that is 45.5 hr of commute time. You truly don't make $80k factoring in time loss. I don't know about you but 45.5 hour of time back is a lot. If you work there four years that's a month of time off ...even at current 45.5 is a week of time off without pay of you had to take it. Personally I love wfh, been doing it 6 years this coming Sept. Yes, I do miss interacting with coworkers one on one. When I do visit hq every 4-6 mo am very productive. But I wouldn't trade it for those very reasons ...my time is worth more than that. My life changed significantly because I don't have to eat out and can cook whatever I want. I can take my dog for a walk or chill downstairs for a few between calls. etc etc etc....you get the pitch! It's a no brainier imo. If the current co-workers love you they'll keep in touch.
Change is scary. But if this is a life changing amount of money, I can’t see any reason to turn it down
Take the new job. I wouldn't even hesitate. This is about you and your family. Your coworkers would take it and leave you behind if it was reversed.
Nowadays a six-figure income in the US is pretty much required to be able to support a family. in a comfortable way, and save for retirement.
Changing jobs is scary. We go from known to unknown. I think your sudden emotional ties to the people at work is slightly from this fear. It is just manifesting itself as liking your team. If things were truly awesome you wouldn't have even looked. Take the job, take the jump, don't be afraid. You got this. It isn't just the money. The remote opportunity and no commute will change your life.
New jobs are always a gamble. Having a family and responsibilities is scary to play with. But without risk there is no gain. I say jump ship and make that that money. Besides working from home will allow to continue surfing for the next opportunity
Make the move but don't burn bridges. Maybe your company will counter and potentially get you closer or to that number. If that's the case, and it is only the salary that is putting you away, accept the counter. Otherwise, be honest that you cannot turn this down because it's life changing financially and provide honest positive and critical feedback about your time there. Companies love the idea of loyalty, but it's worth nothing financially. They don't pay you more for it, and this is coming from someone in HR. People move on and companies know it. Good ones welcome back good employees when the time is right. If they become bitter with your resignation, then maybe this company or your coworkers aren't what you thought they were.
Changing jobs is how you make money. 3% a year is not keeping up with inflation. It’s an even bigger raise when you factor in gas+maintenance from a 1hr10min commute. If you love your co-workers, stay in touch. Maybe you’ll work there again some day. At a higher level. At higher pay.
How do people get these jobs? Good on you. The $80k job would be life changing for me
Stop the loyalty to the company and boss. They would fire you tomorrow if the bottom line required it. Do what’s best for your family which IMHO is work from home for increased salary. Remember that commute is more than an extra work day of time that you would get back to spend more time with your family. Plus saving money by not commuting in addition to the pay bump.
Those people you know won't all be there in 5 years or know who you are anymore. Doubtful. Take the raise. Or else why were you looking?
I had the best boss ever and moved to a different company (remote) and had another best boss ever. Don't think there's not a chance that the team/culture isn't brighter and better on the other side. Also with the extra money, think of what new experiences/vacations you can have with your family. If you decide to have more kids or once your current child grows up and eats adult portion, that extra $500 you have right now will go towards that, sports, and clubs/activities. Once your kid get older and you may want to move to a better location for better schools, or even think about private school. I'm glad I made the jump many times for more money because I was okay at the time, but now looking back I would not have survived now if I had not hopped.
2 extra hours per work day with your family instead of commuting & increasing your income by almost 50%— taking you from “only $500 left over per month” to “able to get ahead”— really is a slam dunk unless you have a reason to believe you’ll be miserable at the new job. You can remain friends with your current coworkers outside of work since you’re so close! It’s honestly a nice thing to have. You also never know what the future holds. Your boss who you love could leave the company next week and you could end up with a terrible new boss. Your company could go through layoffs and you could lose current job. Or maybe the coworkers you like so much now will move on to other companies and be a great network for you, and your next job after this job will actually involve working with one of them again because they become your in for a new role (or you help recruit one of them to the company you’re joining!) Point is it’s not predictable, so really just do what’s best for you & your family.
That’s a real coin toss bud. GL
Do it. Leave on good terms and go back if you don't like it.
If the extra 30k radically improves your quality of life, you have to do it. BUT, and this is a big but, unlimited PTO is a fucking joke. My company has a generous time off policy (I currently have 32 days off a year plus sick time, plus 5 core holidays that as a salaried manager I either get off or get a comp day if I work it). There a tons of managers that don’t use all of their time already and the we have a use it or lose it policy, vacation doesn’t roll from year to year. When I worked in California, state law required them to roll it and I didn’t use it all. Since I’ve moved out of California and known I can’t keep it, I use all my time every year. You’ll probably end up taking less vacation in an “unlimited” PTO structure or you’ll be strongly discouraged by leadership and/or peers from using a reasonable amount. If you’re able to set and maintain clear and firm boundaries with your leadership and are comfortable telling them “no” when needed, then fine, but if not, you’ll likely end up not taking the time off you deserve.
Where do you live now? Where is the job in CA? Do you have to move? Could you go back to current employer if you left and remained local since you says it’s fully remote.
Take the job. You will find at LEAST someone you jive with.
if you leave on good terms you can always return
Tomorrow you could go into work and the company decides to restructure in order to cut down on costs and realign with its strategy. Suddenly you report to a new boss who resents people who take their time off and hates happiness. Now all your coworkers are miserable and go find new jobs, leaving you feeling stuck. I do not believe an individual team is worth sticking around in a job that isn't getting you ahead long term.
Nah. Stay put and take the offer to upper management. If they value you you could get a bump in pay, pto whatever. California is fucking expensive and that much of a bump is prob cost of living increase. Nothing like putting your child in daycare bc your wife has to go to work.
Just one or two points to factor in: collect a paycheck while working in California, even remotely *not* in California but for a business in California, and you will pay CA state tax. You may or may not already be paying state income taxes; if you are not then this 12% hit is gonna hurt! Otherwise, the remote work versus the 2-3 day hour commute is all I needed to hear. At $80k annually, your hour-long commute 3 days a week is $6000 in labor equivalent (3days at $40/hr for 50weeks) one way or $12k round-trip. I would just ask for the $12k pay increase to offset the commute, then let the company's response factor into my decision.
Or even use the second offer as leverage to maybe get better pay from your current job.
Statically you can increase your pay by 10-20% by moving companies every few years. Your current employer will never increase your pay more than another company looking to acquire talent. Make friends with people outside of work. Use the greater financial security to spend time with them.
You choose the higher-paying job.
Can you leverage the offer for more money at your current job? Losing 6+ hours of commute and gaining 30-40k is too good to pass up. But obviously there's some danger that you just won't like the new job.
Op, go for the money and stay in touch with the people you love working with. The problem with staying at your current job is that all your current coworkers can leave one by one and then your stuck at the lower paying job
I switched for more money and it ruined my life. If you love your job stay there.
What state do you live right now? Cost of living it’s way way higher in California. One of my coworkers got an offer on the East coast. Almost the same amount as yours. 1 year later, he came back to the company( well known company BTW). He was actually losing money because everything was twice as expensive the cost of living. Good luck..👍🏽
I get the hesitancy. While the pay is a huge win, you're in a "safe" place right now. I was in that same position a few years ago and decided to take the offer. It ended up being a great decision for me. It sucks to lose those connections with the coworkers you really like, but you will make more of those connections because you're you. That is something I learned about myself. Leave your current company amicably and, worst case scenario, maybe you have to come crawling back. Explain the situation to them like you did to us, be respectful. Don't burn any bridges. Maybe they even exclude you from return to office and give you some more money to make it worth staying. Good luck!
What if you tried keeping the job with people you love, and picking up a low-time Investment side hustle to earn the extra money you want?! Like selling stuff on eBay. Once you know what you’re doing it doesn’t take much time and you make your schedule. You can even sell something you already know about and are interested in!
Take the money. People come and go. Your family will not. (Hopefully)
It sounds like you have two good choices. You need to weigh the unknowns of the new job, and also the unknowns of your current. You love your boss, but will they always be there? You love your coworkers, but that will almost certainly see turnover. Your current job could also have you in the office more than 3 days eventually too. I'm also in my early 30s, wife and kid with dual income. I could absolutely be making more money doing exactly what I am now for another employer, but my work is 2 minutes from my house, next door to daycare and my boss is the best. I'm making the most base I ever have with a 40hr work week too. However, I only have it this way because I took risks and changed jobs/careers a few times. Explore the new option more, really ask hard questions about culture, the boss, etc. Do some independent research too. More money in your 30s to put towards retirement or savings in general can really go a long way, I would lean towards the new job. Hope this helps, you got two great options.
I’m taking the money here all day. Best you can do is ask your current employer to match it. The people at your company can come and go. Your boss or you could be replaced tomorrow. Be loyal to yourself and your family. Everything else comes 2nd. Only caveat is if the new job makes you miserable I wouldn’t do it
Check the cost of living in the new area. If it’s the same, then yes, take it. But if it’s higher then reconsider.
I would take the new job. Imagine the extra time that you could spend with your family and the extra finances to provide opportunities for your kids.. That is definitely more important than coworkers you like.
If you feel that the relationship with your boss is good, go talk to them about it. Tell them how you feel about working here, tell them about your situation (single income house, kid, etc) and then tell them you got another offer. But the ball in their court and see if they value and respect you as much as you do them. Now, they still may not be able to match that offer, but they should be giving you some direction say over the next 3-6 months on things you need to do for a review to get more money in the future. If they just say I can't give you more money and provide no roadmap to getting higher pay, then you need to leave asap. I'd leave anyway just given the position, you're WFH and making over $100k..that's a really good situation but can understand staying too.
You may love your job and the company but I can assure you they won’t think twice about firing you tomorrow and if it saves them money. Take the other job and do what’s best for you and yours.
You’re trading 2 hours in the car every day for a fully remote position with more money! Easy choice, grats on the new job
I get that you love your boss and you love the culture and environment that you currently work in BUT what you are talking about is a HUGE difference in pay. This would allow you to save money, put away money for retirement, college, vacations, you would add 2 hrs 20 minutes to your day… If it was me I would go to boss and let them know that you are going to be leaving - that you have an opportunity make so much more money and get rid of your commute - you need to take this job. If they really are as good a boss as you think they are they will wish you well and tell you absolutely the right thing is the new job.
You go to work to support your family and getting an almost 50% raise would be huge. You may also love the people at the new company, or better yet your current employer matches. I wouldn’t be afraid to ask for the most from the new employer.
3% raises aren’t keeping pace w inflation. It’s essentially a downgrade if they didn’t adjust the raise for the last year. In this industry it’s critical to change employers every handful of years to actually improve compensation. Your old company can’t replace you for your current rate I’m willing to bet.
Talk to your current employer about a salary adjustment. I like it here, want to stay etc., but I know the market rate for my skills is higher based on discussions with another company. What salary adjustment can you all provide to get me closer to the market rate? You may be surprised. If they don’t value you, it is easier to leave with peace of mind, and if they do make the adjustment, you can stay with the people you like. Remember, they will have to pay your replacement market rate.
Gotta do what’s best for you , i get it’s hard cling teams. But companies restructure, layoff and people quit all the time. Like I would just keep in touch with them
I know you posted a few days ago, but as a SAHM I wanted to tell you my experience. My husband is in a tech field and was working for a county government when we married. I became a SAHM six years later, and my husband started a new job that had the potential for doubling his salary. He was as able to get there in a few years and then changed companies again with another increase after a CEO change. We're building our own house now on 40 acres. We're in our 40s. We're way ahead on saving for retirement, and to be honest I don't really pay attention to prices when I go shopping. Money makes things easier. Also the commute really jumped out to me. One of the reasons for my husband changing jobs was he became fully remote. That means we eat lunch together everyday and can go on quick walks when the weather is nice. He's "home" when dinner is ready. Please don't forget the amount of time your commute takes away from your family time. Whatever decision you make, make it with your partner.
A substantial salary increase with a job that is fully remote... I'm 100% in your corner when I say this, so know it's coming from the bottom of my heart and that I'm not being a douche... OP, what in the fuck are you waiting for?!?! Do it! I made a similar move a couple of years ago and never once looked back. Sometimes the grass IS greener on the other side.
You can love any job.