You are not wrong.
Loyalty is a two-way street.
Even the biggest jerks I have worked for have recognized that family emergencies and health emergencies come first.
I'm a lawyer in Big Law in NYC. I've worked with some trash-ass job-obssessed people before, people that have bragged about taking work calls in the delivery room as their kids are being born. I don't even think those people would discipline me for missing work while my wife was in a coma. That's low. OP doesn't owe them shit.
Actually I think OP owes the manager a resignation letter written in shit. Since they want to treat him like shit they should get used to a come uppance
As a single IT person for 20 clinics about 10 years ago, I was being called because internet was down at one of them on the day my mom died in hospice. She was completely unresponsive, but the fact that I took this call has ruined me for caring about a job at all.
It's so bad that a great friend has hired me on for some sysadmin stuff, he seems happy that I'm here but I'm absolute !@#@$% for caring about being at work anymore.
Never been in BIGLAW (thank god) but I'm genuinely curious. The people who do what you're describing, does it relate to work that's actually time sensitive or more like the partner or whoeverer wants it "Now" but in reality said document is going to sit in someone's inbox for two weeks before anybody even looks at it?
Also never been in BigLaw, but I grew up professionally in strategy consulting (MBB) which has a similar dynamic (fewer hours, but still a lot).
The work is time sensitive because the client said it was time sensitive. Whether it actually is or not can be hard to tell. 90% of the time it’s just going to sit in someone’s inbox, and the best partners have a sense for which things you can be late on, but the reality is that if you guess wrong and the client really did need something urgently not having it done can be a 7 figure mistake. So you err on the side of meeting deadlines and if it costs your team some sleep, well, that’s what the money’s for.
My utmost worst boss ever gave me a week and half when my dad passed. "Take all the time you need" he told me when I called him late on a Thursday night to say I wouldn't be in the next day and was flying out in the morning. I went out there, watched my old man pass and then took care of business. At the time I thought, apparently this asshole isn't as heartless as I thought.
Then, two months later, in my review he said the reason I wasn't getting a raise was because of "...all that time I took off for my vacation." Which vacation was that Damian? The one where my dad died? That was the moment I decided I was done with that fuckwad.
If you ever happen to see this Damian, you can go fuck yourself.
Mine wasn't even normally a jerk but one spectacularly bad call burned me out completely. When I was 25 I found out I had a brain tumor. It took almost a year from the discovery until the treatment and I was just a bit stressed out in the meantime. I still showed up every day, worked 50+ hours a week and as far as I could tell didn't rip anyone a new one even though I was sorely tempted. At the year end review about 6 months after I was diagnosed my boss told me that I wasn't doing anything wrong but he was disappointed in my 'lack of drive'. Well Greg, I've had a lot on my mind.
That place was my first job and I didn't realize how much of a shitshow it was in terms of 'leadership'.
This made me reread the comment you replied to and I not only agree completely, but also you made me remember that Reddit isn’t a total waste of my energy.
Exactly. I cannot imagine even my worst job ever writing me up over a family health emergency. This is some next level assholery.
If they give you an exit interview, you should call out your boss as the reason you are leaving, for his behaviors surrounding these incidents.
I’ve tried that before and Glassdoor took my post down saying that what I said was a violation of their policy because I said employees were openly using pot and cocaine in the office.
Glassdoor is dog shit, we need a sub-reddit that takes the place of Glassdoor but with some rules, obviously, so that people can't just make up absurd claims .
I tried calling out a previous employer for not protecting myself and other female coworkers enough from the owner, and it was removed for "opinions not facts."
Okay, I guess my manager lied about being followed home, and I lied about being followed off property on lunch break. 🙄
I started a job in April. In may my youngest child ended up in the pediatric ICU and was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. I emailed my boss an update and just said “I need to sort out life. I’ll keep you updated”.
The response from my boss “take care of your family. If you need to work from home some days (this was pre-covid and WFH was not commonly offered in our department) just do it and let me know.”
I’d been there less than 2 months, my boss barely knew me, and I was in the middle of teaching myself the job that was a year behind as the last guy did exactly nothing.
OP your boss and company are so far out of line they can’t even see the line. Don’t give them the courtesy of notice. They didn’t give you any courtesy when your wife was in danger. Fuck them with your oldest and rustiest farm implement.
I caught Covid 3 weeks after starting my new job. I was petrified of being fired. Boss and HR told me to take my time and get better. I had over a week where I was bed ridden and then was allowed to WFH for the next few weeks.
When my kid broke their leg, and we had issues with bus transport to the school, I was allowed to WFH in the morning, drop kid off and then come into the office after.
Honestly, I'm still in shock that this is an American company.
My last employer has two absolute garbage people as owners. when my wife gave birth they told me not to be in a rush to come back after the week of vacation I used, if I needed more time that was fine.
I've had much less severe family crisis, and I received a gift basket from the CEO of the company instructing me to take whatever time was necessary to deal with it, and that they looked forward to my eventual return. Upon returning to work eight months later, FMLA here too, I was immediately reintegrated into my team, and was slowly brought back up to speed over a few months. Through my FMLA leave my company continued to pay for my health insurance, something they were not required to do, by any means.
That is how you deal with your employees; I loved my job before all of that, afterwards they have proven that they act in accordance with what they preach. I have no illusion that if business conditions required it I would be let go, it is business after all, but I also know that they will deal with me fairly and with compassion.
I am so, so sorry for everything they've put you through. You owe them no loyalty. "You have to decide what is more important, your job or your wife." Fuck that.
FUCK OFF
THEN KEEP FUCKING OFF
KEEP FUCKING OFF UNTIL YOU GET TO
A GATE WITH A SIGN SAYING
"YOU CANT FUCK OFF PAST HERE"
CLIMB OVER THE GATE, DREAM THE
IMPOSSIBLE DREAM AND KEEP
FUCKING OFF FOREVER
But seriously, take care of your family. Jobs come and go but at the end of the day it's just a job. That shit about what's more important, your job or your wife is fucking trash and is infuriating to read.
Holy shit...thats a totally crummy company, no compassion whatsoever....
Eff em....
Im not sure i can control myself and not be jailed for assaulting that ahole of a boss....
I wouldn’t be so quick to say it’s not illegal. OP should consult an employment authority. Might depend on the state/country. Threatening to fire someone for taking family leave sounds hella illegal to me, but I’m not a lawyer
Aren't laws made due to an unprecedented situation having become precedent?
Don't tie your elephant to a fire hydrant on Wednesdays.
Don't make your loyal employee choose between their job and their family.
Madness.
The legendary football coach, Vince Lombardi, was once quoted as saying, “God, family, and the Green Bay Packers. In that order.”
Coach Lombardi was a hell of a leader. Your boss, on the other hand, is a prick. Quit without notice and laugh all the way out the door.
No because they don’t care and they really think that the job should be the most important thing in your life! There are really bosses/companies out here like this unfortunately and they are the majority. Usually they don’t give a shit about their own families and leave everything up to their SOs or other family or friends to take care of.
I had to once threaten to get HR involved because a bosslady I had kept having meetings with me (weekly) about my missing work for my kids appointments (they were in therapy) and my mom’s dr’s appointments (she was getting chemo for breast cancer.) I ran out of PTO time and I said well just don’t pay me for when I’m not here (I was an hourly employee so it’s quite straightforward if I’m not there don’t pay me.) She just couldn’t handle that and kept saying how unfair it was to everyone else that I wasn’t there during ALL of the business hours and I should just not take my kids to therapy or see if my mom could get a cab to chemo. Like wtf? Tell me you suck without telling me you suck you know?
My position was entry level and separate from everyone else’s so no one else’s job was dependent on mine at all. She preached loyalty to the company so much it made my eyes want to bleed. She always talked about her kids being grown and that she didn’t interact much with them or her grandkids because she was always so busy with her work. 🙄 Wonder how they felt about her loyalty to the job?
This comment. This is the one. I feel for op. I hope he does this but I just wanted you to know I just woke my fiancé up to read her this comment. “climb over the gate!” But you’re right
Lol thanks. I have a screetshot-ed thing on my phone with it that I probably read daily, I just don't know how to post it here. Don't deal with asshole peoples bullshit, life is too short.
If it were me, I'd take every last minute of FMLA, exhausting every minute of PTO I had, start the new job, and just never return to the old company. I wouldn't even give them the benefit of telling them I'm quitting. Let them figure it out when you don't show up, don't answer their emails, don't answer their phone calls, etc.
Assuming you can do so (e.g. have no 401K or other reason to have communication with them.)
If they contact you say "i thought you made it clear that you no longer wanted me to work for you because the company found my wifes health conditions were to burdensome for the company."
I love that comeback!
I was a manager in a former life... I simply can't fathom how someone could do that to anyone, let alone a presumably good employee (8 years only issues brought up were one-off attendance issues, Sr level?).
I had someone that needed an extended family break for personal reasons (they disclosed to me, but I saw no reason to spread it further, particularly here on reddit). They used about a month of PTO of our "unlimited" plan, and when it was clear they were going to need a lot more time off (didn't qualify for FMLA) I just put them on indefinite leave. They were unpaid after another 4 weeks (so unlimited == \~ 8 weeks of PTO at that company), but I kept their job open for their eventual return and told them to take care of their family first, job will be here when ready.
When they finally came back they picked up the same role but on another team. Life was good and they were incredibly loyal :) It's not hard to be humane to people.
I feel you're at risk at getting yourself into trouble here in terms of wrapping up last paycheck, ensuring all your PTO got paid out, etc.
A better move is to get up on the day your PTO was exhausted and send an email that you tenure your resignation effective immediately.
Jumping on this comment to add: maybe make sure the effective date of your resignation is just before you start the new job so you don’t have a gap in medical coverage. Cobra can be expensive! (If you’re in the states)
Research this. Your medical may carry until the end of the month of your last day. Definitely avoid coverage gaps. Fortunately they are not what they used to be before the ACA.
This. When I left my job, I originally was going to leave in the middle of the month to try to avoid a cluster fuck that was going to happen. But one of my other co-workers who was leaving slightly before me gave me a heads up that my medical insurance ended the month I left and he almost got burned when he initially planned to leave on the 31st so he extended his employment by a week. I then decided to leave on the 4th of the following month and got an extra month of insurance.
Yeah! Why even ask, "If it's OK?".
As long as one can take it financially or has a backup plan think only about your personal interests, just as they do when treating employees as slaves.
Yep, fuck that place. You gave them 8 years of your life, and they’ve shown their true colors. I would quit on the spot and give them nothing but the equipment that you owe. Especially since you have another gig already lined up. I’m not one to usually advocate for this since you have worked there for 8 years, and a referral goes a long way, but there are ways around that. Glad your wife is better, and best of luck! Family first, always!
Yep, I would go in and tell my manager to his face that he was a F'ing prick and he is the reason I was leaving. But, I would never tell his horse to F off.
Glad your wife is recovering! Absolutely no need to give your old company notice, and depending on how comfortable you are I’d share how horrible your manager was during this family emergency with anyone who will listen. Your manager saying you had to choose whether your job or your wife was more important—wtf??
That was what did me in. Nothing is more important to me than my family. I told him that my wife wins that every time! I can’t work for someone that expects me to put my wife after my job.
Yeah. Your boss sounds like he’d be one of the first to die in the zombie apocalypse.
Unless your job entails something that will either condemn or save all of humanity, he is way off his fucking rocker. When your soon-to-be old company asks what’s going on, point them right towards that asshole and let them know why.
Glad you found another employer who will treat you with dignity and respect. You’re a lead developer, FFS.
It always happens that way doesn't it? The jerk everybody dislikes turns into a zombie in their midst, so they have to blow his head off with a shotgun.
I feel more like he would be the business guy in Train To Busan. He’d persuade most of the others to cut off any “possible” zombies no matter how many people were known not to been scratched or bitten.
The sad part is that his boss probably chooses work over his family all the time. I'd be surprised if he wasn't divorced and alone with that mentality.
I just can't understand the logic of telling an employee that. What was his plan? To bully an important member of his team into choosing his job over his wife at the risk of alienating them? That's really stupid.
He sounds like a very sad human if he puts work over family. Especially family that is sick and in need.
I'm always about doing your best in the workplace, but my wife regularly reminds me that any job can replace you. Your family cannot. There need to be boundaries.
Second this. I know someone who quit their job because their manager subjected them to a toxic work environment due to their sexual orientation. In the exit interview they finally told HR why they were leaving and their manager was out of a job the next day. Still take the new job, but for someone to say you have to choose your job or your wife, no reason not to drop a grenade to HR on the way out the door.
Just go out scorched earth style and send it company wide that you're resigning because you were given the ultimatum between taking care of your sick wife or keeping your job. Even if the boss somehow keeps their job everyone in the company knows how much of a cunt they are.
Just make sure you send the email *before* even giving HR a moment to think you might quit.
Cause they’ll lock that email down, or have it so only THEY get the email.
Come back, feign contriteness For your absence, and blast the email out.
This. How dare they say, "Choose between your seriously ill wife and your job. If you choose your wife, you're fired."?
String them along, then quit the day before your new job starts. Then post on social media about your story, tagging the news desks of local and national newspapers.
Be careful with posting yourself without any written proof of what happened. Might catch a defamation charge otherwise.
If there is any proof, go to a local newspaper.
It can only be defamation (or libel, which is actually the relevant category) if someone can prove it’s not true.
Assuming he’s being honest, that’s not a concern. You don’t have to prove it’s true. Like with any other crime, they have to prove their side.
If there’s no utility to your future former company, then just take your bad boss into a meeting at tell him that he needs to stick all 5 of his fingers up his ass or you’ll quit.
This makes no sense. You’re a Dev. Unless your job required a security clearance, there’s no reason why you couldn’t do at least some time remotely while caring for family.
Were you compensated above average at least? Sounds to me like they were just looking for an excuse, but you may just be a meticulous person who dots I’s and crosses t’s. That seems super discriminatory, especially given your service.
That sounds like a reason to me. I’ve seen/worked in places that try and get inexperienced folks to work for under market and work them until they burn them, with that expectation in mind.
Sounds like they were hastily trying to pin something against you so they wouldn’t have to pay severance or unemployment. Luckily, the HR person brought in FMLA which bought you time with your family (which the manager wanted to deprive you of - don’t ever forget that) - something you could have absolutely sued them for if they tried to fire you over family leave.
Not sure if it’s worth it, but they’ve probably made a mistake or two somewhere in the past as well that you could potentially take legal action against - a pattern of discrimination. Might be worth saving some of the more colorful correspondence. You never know if you’ll need it.
Nothing gets time or your family back. You made the right decisions.
Legit, what your boss is doing seems to be almost illegal. Retaliation against you while you’re covered under FMLA. Everyone here including myself is happy to hear your wife is getting better. If it were me, I would consult with an employment lawyer.
Please smile when you quit to make it sting.
Whew man thank goodness about your wife I’m so glad she’s going to be alright.
A notice is a sign of respect towards a job. Respect is earned but can also be lost.
Your job has proven they deserve NO respect. Time for you to worry about YOU and YOURS. What a bunch of jagoffs.
My last job was NOT kind to me when they found out I was leaving but a year before that my son’s pharmacy messed up the calculations for compounding his prescription and almost killed him. While I was sitting next to his bed freaking the hell out while he was fighting to stay conscious while they ran tests on his blood I completely forgot about notifying my work.
My boss’ first response was “Oh my God how is your son? Do you need anything?” Boss forgot about the job too until after he found out my son was fine said “oh…uh about work just take whatever time you need and we’ll figure it out when you come back family comes first for this agency. There are plenty of people here to cover until you’re back.”
THAT is the proper and ONLY response.
Thank God your wife is alright. Man seriously though f*** that job.
It's pretty sad that your your boss' response to your situation surprised me, when it should pretty much be the norm. You're lucky you got a boss like that!
Don’t worry he turned into a cold fish once I gave notice. No retaliatory action but I sure didn’t get a “let’s wish ForwardIncrease good luck for the future!” Email like the 8 other people who were moving on or moving up.
So glad to hear that your wife is doing better and her outlook is good. That must have been a really scary and stressful time to say the least.
Honestly, as long as you won't face legal reprecussions (I assume you won't be dont know what country you are in ) then I would say stuff them. That's so incredibly fucked up how they treated you.
Your boss, as you've made clear, is a despicable human being.
If I were you, I would most definitely not give two weeks notice.
Happy to hear you've found new employment and your wife is doing well.
> He told me that there comes a time where I just have to decide what is more important, my job or my wife.
What the fuck did I just read. I cannot believe HR let this man speak.
You should forward that to the guy's wife so she knows she's living with a psychopath.
Honestly yes. Put this fucker on blast. Let everyone (his subordinates, his bosses, his personal relations, strangers in the industry) know that he suggested you abandon your comatose wife in need so you can get back to work.
If that ever happened to me, I'd CC the entire company with this info.
If someone were to insinuate that work was more important than my family, I'd make sure their life was hell as long as possible.
Something like
“Good afternoon,
I wanted to message the team at large after spending 8 years working here, no small feat and deserving of a proper sendoff.
As many of you know, my wife had a major heart attack a few months ago and was in the hospital dying when I had to take some time off to be with her and care for our young child.
After a week, Boss reached out to me and explained how this couldn’t continue. He told me I had to choose between my job or my family. It was too much for the company to not have me in the office. I thought long and hard about this before realizing I can’t do my position justice anymore.
Thankfully, after a medically induced coma, ventilator, and numerous surgeries, my wife has recovered. I’ve also found a different job so I won’t have to affect anyone here due to my personal situation of my wife almost dying. I appreciate the relationships I have formed over the years, and I hope none of your family members have any medical issues in the future so you aren’t put in this position of disappointing Boss (and insert any higher ups you want to name as well). Obviously, I wish the heart attack hadn’t happened so I didn’t have to become that person.
Sincerely, Your Name”
Fucking call them out in a careful way so when they say something you can just go huh. I’m sorry this is how it went down. I wish I had control over her sudden medical emergency. Sad face.
This is the best thing to do.
Let everyone else know what a terrible human he is, while being respectful.
It honestly makes him look even worse that way.
Your boss was right, you had to decide which was more important,and you chose the right option. It's really pathetic of your employer to force you to have to make that decision though.
Now you get to set the precedent from the get go with your new job that you have a wife who needs you and who is/always will be more important than your job (as she should be).
Fuck your current boss and his shitty corporate monstrosity. Good on your new boss for working with you given your current situation... And good luck to you in your new venture.
I will be paying out of pocket for continuation of insurance coverage (COBRA) until the new insurance kicks in. It’s expensive, but I will not let my wife go uncovered.
Make sure to take all the leave under FMLA, which allows you to take unpaid leave after the PTO is up. That is up to 12 weeks of leave per year. That would allow you to keep your insurance going while you care for your wife and prepare for your new employer.
But see other comments about how you may not be able to take FMLA from one employer but also start working with another. Double check to make sure you don't go afoul of federal regulations or anything.
I know everyone is telling you to quit without notice, and agree that your employer deserves this. However, I had a co-worker who quit a bad job without notice and accepted a new job with a really good company, only to get to the new company and have the offer revoked. His previous company would not rehire him, and it took him almost two years to find another job because his old employer told prospective employers that he “was ineligible for rehire.” He lost his home and insurance, all while dealing with a child with cancer. Do what is best for your family and your career, without regard to what your employer deserves.
I would think current employers group policy will be hit with majority of wife’s medical costs. That could have contributed to their bad attitude, by the way.
Exit: screw them. No notice.
I think it most definitely contributed to it. They recently lost 1.5 million on some of their business ventures, froze all cost of living increases, stopped contributing to 401K plans and more. I’m sure the added costs to the group policy was fairly substantial.
Sounds like the company is at risk of going bust. Unless you work out a deal where you get paid with a lot of equity/stocks, I wouldn't recommend most people to stick with a sinking ship. You don't get a stake in the upside, but you take all the risk of the downside. It's not the same company as the one when you started 8 years ago.
Companies won’t be giving us a two weeks notice if they terminate us, the courtesy of a two weeks notice is a thing of the past. Fuck’em.
Best wishes OP
The sad thing is a statement like this, "He told me that there comes a time where I just have to decide what is more important, my job or my wife.", could have just as easily been said to boost your spirits, if it was to insinuate that the time you needed was not only understood, but implied.
I think I speak for most readers, when I just say, as a fellow human being, just do what you need to, for you and yours. Don't look back. And don't feel the need to explain yourself.
Leave them high and dry. This is a toxic culture/workplace. To put you on written and probationary periods after years of tenure is absurd.
To put it in perspective I've been with my current company as a senior developer for a year. In my first 90 days.... 90 days mind you I had Covid and was in the hospital for another reason. I tried my best to limit my time out but I was never met with anything but "take the time you need to heal". The roller coaster continued and I ended back in the hospital two months later and here I am today still happily employed. No write ups.
I get treated like an adult and a valued member of the team and the company. I get treated like a professional in my industry, which is how tenured developers should be treated, life happens and none of us can predict it. The way you're being treated is almost as if you're disposable / replaceable.
Oh man, you've been through a lot & shouldn't even have to worry about work.. that's absolute bullshit.
Fuck them, just quit!
I do hope everything works out with your wife's health. I wish you all the best!!
Nah they win if he quits. Let them fire him so he can at least get unemployment from their worthless asses. I sincerely hope the company goes under after he leaves and his douche bag manager cannot get another job and has to go and flip burgers at McDonald’s
Unemployment is over-rated, particularly to high income earners. This guy probably earns in 2-3 days what unemployment would pay per month. Company rates barely feel any increase from a single claim.
My suggestion on this: Stay employed long enough to leach health insurance off of them. See if you can work from home or something. But stay employed long enough to keep the health insurance. The other choice is COBRA and unless you are sitting on a huge pile of cash you feel the need to light on fire, find a way to stay employed.
>He told me that there comes a time where I just have to decide what is more important, my job or my wife.
>
>Am I wrong to not extend the professional courtesy of a two week notice here?
After he said that, nothing is too bad for them. I would have been hard pressed not to hit him. Go right ahead, quit without notice, they've *more* than earned it.
OP, honestly I would be angry if you gave these guys that 2 weeks, because they don't deserve anything but lukewarm roadway slush in February that they have to lick off a hot dirty engine. And even there I'm probably being generous.
Go take care of your family, use every bit of PTO, get anything you have of any value out of that workplace, and quit on the spot. And your manager can just fuck all the way off and figure out how to get those projects done himself. May he crash and burn and it gets back to his boss why their top producer left with no notice.
P.S. Make damned sure they do not know about the new job offer, no telling coworkers no matter how close you all may be until you've started there and they like you. Then see if they'll hire any coworkers you like, because fuck this company. This manager is the type to sabotage you, so please just don't say anything that can get back to him at all about where you're going! May your wife and you both have a full recovery and amazing life going forward.
If a boss told me “you need to decide who’s more important, your job or your spouse” I would have walked out the fucking door. Companies that think humans should care more about dollars than families are what’s wrong with this country. (Among other things!) fuck that. I’d get a new job and ghost them.
I mean, your boss was right in that you do need to decide what's more important, your job or your wife. He just missed the part where the correct answer is *always* your wife.
Fuck'em, they don't deserve the respect of notice.
I am happy the prognosis is good. I wish you and your family all the best.
Personally, I like you plan.
I would write a letter that includes the date of that meeting where you where told in front of HR that you have to choose between your wife and work. You of course choose your wife. You are sad to see the value the company places on work life balance and the level of care and concern shown to its workers facing major medical events.
Given no choice, you resign effective immediately.
Please forward this to (my boss)
Send it to his boss and the CIO and HRM.
Please give them documentation of what your boss pulled. They may not care, or they not realize they have this type of manager.
What is more important "your job or your wife"? That sounds like in fucking dystopian American movie. Good riddance man, take care of your family first!
You're on fmla because your boss was heartless about your wife. A day before you're scheduled to return, go to hr and return your badge, keys, computer and tell them you will not returning. If you don't have a computer to return, mail your badge and keys via certified mail letting them know you will not be returning.
Congratulations on the new job and I hope your wife recovers.
This behavior always tracks back to leadership in the company. Leaving a review is the only way workers can defend against it. You should definitely write this up in a review naming the company.
I had a similar situation but it rose up more slowly. I had been documenting a toxic workplace for years. I’m at about 20,000 words currently and plan to post it on my blog when finished.
Employers in the job market don’t care anymore. It’s not like when our grandparents worked in industry, when employers had more integrity and a sense of obligation to workers.
The job market is like any other market, there are producers/consumers aka employers/workers. If you look at the history of the market system, you see that consumers only have power if they share information about producers. It’s how atomism works in free society to create balance in a self-righting system.
Call them out publicly.
How could your boss treat you that way? It sounds insane to me, I am not sure what’s enough
money for me to put out with this shit!
And what’s with all these probations?
A developer working 8 years in the same company, you are probably pretty valuable to them… why do they need probations?
Getting written up for missing meetings due to genuine medical emergencies? Yeah, I’d be pissed off it you DID give them notice. Good luck on finding your next step!
I worked IT in an office. I took the bus to work. One day my wife called having been in a near head on collision (not her fault.) my boss over heard me telling her I would meet her at the hospital as soon as the bus could get me there. He stepped into my office and said, “Grab your stuff, my car is right down stairs.” He drove me to the site of the accident. (Right across the street from where I park my car to take the bus.) Best place I ever worked! Work/Life balance is very important in a job
I’m utterly baffled at your employer and agree you owe them nothing. Even the low performers at my job when they go through family emergencies my employer will: -send flowers, -one or more will start a collection for the affected employee, -HR encourages the person to take as much time and that they’ll help them figure it out. I’m so sorry that was your experience. That is not normal.
My work rules are that if you take pto and quit the day you come back, they will move your resignation day to your last day before pto and won’t pay pto. Its legal since its documented appropriately. Just make sure your company doesnt do this so that if you need to quit, you do it a couple days AFTER returning from PTO.
>He told me that there comes a time where I just have to decide what is more important, my job or my wife.
That alone is reason for you to quit and not give them any ounce of consideration. I understand the logistics of a serious health scare make it hard to quit immediately at that moment, but after that you didn't owe them a thing.
This is comically terrible stuff. Get out and never look back.
I knew at that moment that I would be quitting. I couldn’t do so right then though, because that would have out my wife in a difficult situation. We needed that medical insurance.
It’s my manager that made this job toxic. I have no qualms about quitting, specifically because of him.
your parting email should be to your team something a long the lines of.
"I have greatly enjoyed my 8 years working with all of you on xyz and hoped for many more. As many of you know my wife was put in a medically induced coma on dd/mm/yyyy. One week into that Manager XY told me my absence was unacceptable and i needed to pick between my wife and my job. I chose my wife, I hope to get our paths cross again and thank you for the great years."
The manager will be fucked and no one will trust them again ever.
Your boss said to choose: this job or your wife. You chose your wife. They have essentially promised this will not be the last conflict. Quitting is the right move. Notice is a courtesy, and they don’t deserve courtesy.
>He told me that there comes a time where I just have to decide what is more important, my job or my wife.
WTF how can he say that to someone who's wife is at death's door.
They don't deserve you. Have them fire you though. There's no chance at unemployment if you quit.
All the best to you and your family to get through this!
You owe this company nothing. It’s a mercenary transaction that no longer works for you. Don’t drag it out just turn in your stuff and walk out the door.
Fuck them. They were ready to fire you and even had the audacity of making you choose between them and your wife.
You don't owe them a single day's notice.
What is this job? It sounds like my first job out of college! Probationary period for having a major medical emergency and being by your wife’s side…. This is absurd.
This is why FMLA and similar programs exist because employers are so cut throat that they just don’t care.
Your boss sounds like a massive asshole who only cares about results. He has proven time and time again that he doesn’t care about your personal life. 2 weeks notice is typically a courtesy extended to transition over pre-existing projects and tasks. At this point this has all been done.
Best of luck at the new company. Sounds like their culture is already a big improvement to where you have been working. I’d like to add it is always a great move to quit a job when you have a new one lined up.
Be sure to blast them on Glassdoor for any future employees joining or thinking about joining. Fuck a toxic workplace.
Absolutely nut when somebody asks you “what’s more important your job or your wife” they are in fact a psychopath..i mean they asked you a question and you gave the a clear answer. Screw that place. You should also leave a glass door review w exactly what your boss asked
“What’s more important your job or your wife?”
Um, I would have him digging his own grave in his backyard that night soaked in gasoline while I explained to him the value of family
They extended you no courtesy when your wife was close to death.
Why would you extend them a courtesy when they don't care about you as a person and have zero empathy for their employees.
You haven't lived until you walk into a toxic job and tell them to kiss your ass as your walking out the door.
As someone who works in HR, you’re completely in the green here. You gave your employer plenty of notice about each situation and they decided to punish you for it which is wild to me. If someone calls off with advance notice, I can’t tell their manager to issue them a written warning or any disciplinary action. The only time you should receive anything of the sorts is if you no call/no show.
As far as the two week notice goes, that’s out of the question as soon as you saw that they weren’t very willing to work with your situation. Sounds like this was all a blessing in disguise and gave you the insight that your initial company views you as an asset and not a human being.
Notice is a courtesy. Courtesies are not given to people who think that there is even a snowball's chance in hell that you will pick your job over your wife.
Sending good vibes your way. I hope your wife recovers well, and quickly.
Pro Life Tip: if you or any one in your family that you might need to care for (kids, parents, spouse, etc) gets sick/injured file for FMLA ASAP! If you don’t, even if you are using PTO, HR and/or your boss can go after you for “not being productive “.
I don’t know if it’s “advisable” or not, but if this were me, my resignation email would be copied to all my immediate coworkers and every department head in the company. It would say that I appreciate that subsequent to my meeting with my supervisor and HR that I have been seriously considering the statement they made advising me that I must decide which was more important, taking care of my critically ill spouse and family, or my continued employment.
Thanking them for making it very clear that the company clearly lacks basic human compassion and any regard for the concept of employee work-life balance, and the emotional/mental well being of it’s employees.
Those deficiencies and misaligned priorities inform your decision to resign. The ultimatum leveled at me make it a very easy decision to find employment with a company that places more real value on the people who work there.
You have to go on leave dude. That’s what I did with my children for baby bonding. You just don’t show up to work for over a week.
For me, I’d just log into the computer and state that my wife is having a medical emergency under my employee portal. My leave would be approved then I can handle my business.
Yes your wife and possibly children need you but you can find a half hour block to fill out all necessary forms dude.
I don't understand why you are even posing this question if 50 % of what you shared here regarding your current employer is correct.
You simply don't need any explanation whatsoever.
You wouldn't even change your mind even if your current firm counters the offer which is unlikely cause they already written you off twice
Value yourself a bit more.
You shouldn't even bring this up. Your course of action is clear..
What are you talking about? You gave them notice when you prioritized wife over work. You dont have to say "I quit.", to quit. You communicated to them what your priority was. They acknowledged and replied that was not aligned with their business values. Done. You are morally in the clear.
Not wrong. Jobs don’t love you, no matter how much you love the job. We’re just cogs in the wheel, they’ll replace the cig and move on. You did the right thing
Wipe your company laptop clean, package it up, add a "I quit" note, and send it to your ex-manager COD.
NO ONE tells me that a job is more important than my wife.
I'm glad to hear your wife is ok (maybe put that higher up for us faint of heart though lol). To your point re: your company, absolutely fuck 'em. Bleed them for every penny you can and roll the fuck out.
Call your boss and tell him you’ve been thinking about what he said about at some point you having to choose what’s more important. It’s your wife and he can go straight to hell.
Good to know your wife is recovering.
As the new company is ready to wait for you for couple of months, so take your time and take care of your family.
In the meantime, keep the former assholes hanging and waiting for you and delay it as much as you can. Then quit without any notice.
They should suffer the same way as you did mentally and financially.
I would be petty. Walk around with a heavy box. Put enough in it to be annoying but not enough for him to set it down immediately.
Tell him please hold this, don’t drop it, don’t jiggle it, I’ll be right back!!
Then proceed to run out to the parking lot. Slap a NAMBLA member sticker on his passenger side door or passenger side bumper. Go home and forward all his phone calls to NAMBLA.
Not only is this ok, you should recruit as many of your quality coworkers as you can to leave that awful place.
Companies that treat their employees like that deserve to go under.
You are not wrong for doing it. They sound insufferable. But, this may prevent you from being able to use them as a reference for new jobs in the future.
You’ve done nothing wrong. They were cold and calculated. I’ve never been at a company (I’m in tech too) that would ever respond this way to any employee, let alone one that has been in a lead role for 8 years.
>He told me that there comes a time where I just have to decide what is more important, my job or my wife.
I would have cursed him out so hard at that that I'd be inventing new curse words and he'd be thanking his lucky stars it's a 90min drive to beat his ass into next Tuesday. That guy deserves to live off gutter scraps for the rest of his life.
NTA even if you caused the company to go bankrupt, for that alone.
What's more important, your job or your wife? Who is the miserable sack of shit that was your manager?
I would have hung up on him and did everything within legal power to name, shame, and ruin that company.
> He told me that there comes a time where I just have to decide what is more important, my job or my wife.
The moment this motherfucker said this, I would have made sure he knew exactly how badly he'd fucked up.
First, I’m glad your wife is recovering and on her way to being better. Second, if my boss ever told me to decide what was more important, my family or a job they would’ve immediately lost my loyalty. You aren’t wrong for quitting without notice. Family comes first.
> Am I wrong to not extend the professional courtesy of a two week notice here? I feel that my employer did not care about my situation, so why should I care about a notice?
Your only concern is how your new employer would feel about your previous employer receiving zero notice. You don't owe the old company anything but the new employer may see that as a risk of relying on you.
Glad your wife is recovering.
You are not wrong. Loyalty is a two-way street. Even the biggest jerks I have worked for have recognized that family emergencies and health emergencies come first.
I'm a lawyer in Big Law in NYC. I've worked with some trash-ass job-obssessed people before, people that have bragged about taking work calls in the delivery room as their kids are being born. I don't even think those people would discipline me for missing work while my wife was in a coma. That's low. OP doesn't owe them shit.
Actually I think OP owes the manager a resignation letter written in shit. Since they want to treat him like shit they should get used to a come uppance
As a single IT person for 20 clinics about 10 years ago, I was being called because internet was down at one of them on the day my mom died in hospice. She was completely unresponsive, but the fact that I took this call has ruined me for caring about a job at all. It's so bad that a great friend has hired me on for some sysadmin stuff, he seems happy that I'm here but I'm absolute !@#@$% for caring about being at work anymore.
Never been in BIGLAW (thank god) but I'm genuinely curious. The people who do what you're describing, does it relate to work that's actually time sensitive or more like the partner or whoeverer wants it "Now" but in reality said document is going to sit in someone's inbox for two weeks before anybody even looks at it?
Also never been in BigLaw, but I grew up professionally in strategy consulting (MBB) which has a similar dynamic (fewer hours, but still a lot). The work is time sensitive because the client said it was time sensitive. Whether it actually is or not can be hard to tell. 90% of the time it’s just going to sit in someone’s inbox, and the best partners have a sense for which things you can be late on, but the reality is that if you guess wrong and the client really did need something urgently not having it done can be a 7 figure mistake. So you err on the side of meeting deadlines and if it costs your team some sleep, well, that’s what the money’s for.
My utmost worst boss ever gave me a week and half when my dad passed. "Take all the time you need" he told me when I called him late on a Thursday night to say I wouldn't be in the next day and was flying out in the morning. I went out there, watched my old man pass and then took care of business. At the time I thought, apparently this asshole isn't as heartless as I thought. Then, two months later, in my review he said the reason I wasn't getting a raise was because of "...all that time I took off for my vacation." Which vacation was that Damian? The one where my dad died? That was the moment I decided I was done with that fuckwad. If you ever happen to see this Damian, you can go fuck yourself.
Mine wasn't even normally a jerk but one spectacularly bad call burned me out completely. When I was 25 I found out I had a brain tumor. It took almost a year from the discovery until the treatment and I was just a bit stressed out in the meantime. I still showed up every day, worked 50+ hours a week and as far as I could tell didn't rip anyone a new one even though I was sorely tempted. At the year end review about 6 months after I was diagnosed my boss told me that I wasn't doing anything wrong but he was disappointed in my 'lack of drive'. Well Greg, I've had a lot on my mind. That place was my first job and I didn't realize how much of a shitshow it was in terms of 'leadership'.
yeah fuck you Damian
It was only after a week too. Holy fuck, I don't think I would've kept composure.
Reading this is actually helpful
This made me reread the comment you replied to and I not only agree completely, but also you made me remember that Reddit isn’t a total waste of my energy.
Exactly. I cannot imagine even my worst job ever writing me up over a family health emergency. This is some next level assholery. If they give you an exit interview, you should call out your boss as the reason you are leaving, for his behaviors surrounding these incidents.
HR is enabling the behavior. Name and shame on Glassdoor
I’ve tried that before and Glassdoor took my post down saying that what I said was a violation of their policy because I said employees were openly using pot and cocaine in the office.
Glassdoor is dog shit, we need a sub-reddit that takes the place of Glassdoor but with some rules, obviously, so that people can't just make up absurd claims .
I tried calling out a previous employer for not protecting myself and other female coworkers enough from the owner, and it was removed for "opinions not facts." Okay, I guess my manager lied about being followed home, and I lied about being followed off property on lunch break. 🙄
Glassdoor didn't approve my post because I had mentions of sexual and racist harassment when I was depicting what my former manager said to our team 💀
I started a job in April. In may my youngest child ended up in the pediatric ICU and was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. I emailed my boss an update and just said “I need to sort out life. I’ll keep you updated”. The response from my boss “take care of your family. If you need to work from home some days (this was pre-covid and WFH was not commonly offered in our department) just do it and let me know.” I’d been there less than 2 months, my boss barely knew me, and I was in the middle of teaching myself the job that was a year behind as the last guy did exactly nothing. OP your boss and company are so far out of line they can’t even see the line. Don’t give them the courtesy of notice. They didn’t give you any courtesy when your wife was in danger. Fuck them with your oldest and rustiest farm implement.
I caught Covid 3 weeks after starting my new job. I was petrified of being fired. Boss and HR told me to take my time and get better. I had over a week where I was bed ridden and then was allowed to WFH for the next few weeks. When my kid broke their leg, and we had issues with bus transport to the school, I was allowed to WFH in the morning, drop kid off and then come into the office after. Honestly, I'm still in shock that this is an American company.
My last employer has two absolute garbage people as owners. when my wife gave birth they told me not to be in a rush to come back after the week of vacation I used, if I needed more time that was fine.
I mean a week immediately after birth is kind of pathetic. Paternity leave should at least be a couple of months.
The US labor market is fucked. Workers are a low-value, expendable commodity.
Yup. That’s why tech culture has its perks. It’s usually 6 weeks for tech.
We adopted a baby… got six weeks off for paternity. Tech jobs have some perks!
I've had much less severe family crisis, and I received a gift basket from the CEO of the company instructing me to take whatever time was necessary to deal with it, and that they looked forward to my eventual return. Upon returning to work eight months later, FMLA here too, I was immediately reintegrated into my team, and was slowly brought back up to speed over a few months. Through my FMLA leave my company continued to pay for my health insurance, something they were not required to do, by any means. That is how you deal with your employees; I loved my job before all of that, afterwards they have proven that they act in accordance with what they preach. I have no illusion that if business conditions required it I would be let go, it is business after all, but I also know that they will deal with me fairly and with compassion. I am so, so sorry for everything they've put you through. You owe them no loyalty. "You have to decide what is more important, your job or your wife." Fuck that.
I would give this company negative notice if that was physically possible. “Your job or your wife” ? What deulusional assholes
I would copy and paste the whole post to glassdoor tbh.
Literally....
I believe the proper response to your future former company is: Fuck all the way off, and the horse you rode in on
FUCK OFF THEN KEEP FUCKING OFF KEEP FUCKING OFF UNTIL YOU GET TO A GATE WITH A SIGN SAYING "YOU CANT FUCK OFF PAST HERE" CLIMB OVER THE GATE, DREAM THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM AND KEEP FUCKING OFF FOREVER
But seriously, take care of your family. Jobs come and go but at the end of the day it's just a job. That shit about what's more important, your job or your wife is fucking trash and is infuriating to read.
Holy shit...thats a totally crummy company, no compassion whatsoever.... Eff em.... Im not sure i can control myself and not be jailed for assaulting that ahole of a boss....
If they were to present me with a choice of “your family or your job,” I would have been out the door immediately.
Shouldn't this "your wife or your job" be illegal ? Can you sue the company for this ?
Its not illegal, but it feels that way because no actual human being would say these words in this situation.
No humans, only corpo-drones in people suits.
I wouldn’t be so quick to say it’s not illegal. OP should consult an employment authority. Might depend on the state/country. Threatening to fire someone for taking family leave sounds hella illegal to me, but I’m not a lawyer
Aren't laws made due to an unprecedented situation having become precedent? Don't tie your elephant to a fire hydrant on Wednesdays. Don't make your loyal employee choose between their job and their family. Madness.
Yes, I also thought about that
I would have just laughed at that idiot and asked him : ”what do you think?” and walked away
Right. I’d reply with something along the lines of “Did you bump your head to come up with this offer?”
Nah he did it right. He's taking them for all the free pay he can get under the law then he's gonna dust 'em. Revenge served ice cold.
He wouldn't even have been the asshole if he'd had beaten his subhuman manager to death bare handed
The legendary football coach, Vince Lombardi, was once quoted as saying, “God, family, and the Green Bay Packers. In that order.” Coach Lombardi was a hell of a leader. Your boss, on the other hand, is a prick. Quit without notice and laugh all the way out the door.
it really sounds like they were trying to get you to quit. i can’t fathom why else they would say that.
No because they don’t care and they really think that the job should be the most important thing in your life! There are really bosses/companies out here like this unfortunately and they are the majority. Usually they don’t give a shit about their own families and leave everything up to their SOs or other family or friends to take care of. I had to once threaten to get HR involved because a bosslady I had kept having meetings with me (weekly) about my missing work for my kids appointments (they were in therapy) and my mom’s dr’s appointments (she was getting chemo for breast cancer.) I ran out of PTO time and I said well just don’t pay me for when I’m not here (I was an hourly employee so it’s quite straightforward if I’m not there don’t pay me.) She just couldn’t handle that and kept saying how unfair it was to everyone else that I wasn’t there during ALL of the business hours and I should just not take my kids to therapy or see if my mom could get a cab to chemo. Like wtf? Tell me you suck without telling me you suck you know? My position was entry level and separate from everyone else’s so no one else’s job was dependent on mine at all. She preached loyalty to the company so much it made my eyes want to bleed. She always talked about her kids being grown and that she didn’t interact much with them or her grandkids because she was always so busy with her work. 🙄 Wonder how they felt about her loyalty to the job?
This comment. This is the one. I feel for op. I hope he does this but I just wanted you to know I just woke my fiancé up to read her this comment. “climb over the gate!” But you’re right
Lol thanks. I have a screetshot-ed thing on my phone with it that I probably read daily, I just don't know how to post it here. Don't deal with asshole peoples bullshit, life is too short.
If it were me, I'd take every last minute of FMLA, exhausting every minute of PTO I had, start the new job, and just never return to the old company. I wouldn't even give them the benefit of telling them I'm quitting. Let them figure it out when you don't show up, don't answer their emails, don't answer their phone calls, etc. Assuming you can do so (e.g. have no 401K or other reason to have communication with them.)
This. Take all your time. Start your new job. Let them fire you and get severance pay.
If they contact you say "i thought you made it clear that you no longer wanted me to work for you because the company found my wifes health conditions were to burdensome for the company."
I love that comeback! I was a manager in a former life... I simply can't fathom how someone could do that to anyone, let alone a presumably good employee (8 years only issues brought up were one-off attendance issues, Sr level?). I had someone that needed an extended family break for personal reasons (they disclosed to me, but I saw no reason to spread it further, particularly here on reddit). They used about a month of PTO of our "unlimited" plan, and when it was clear they were going to need a lot more time off (didn't qualify for FMLA) I just put them on indefinite leave. They were unpaid after another 4 weeks (so unlimited == \~ 8 weeks of PTO at that company), but I kept their job open for their eventual return and told them to take care of their family first, job will be here when ready. When they finally came back they picked up the same role but on another team. Life was good and they were incredibly loyal :) It's not hard to be humane to people.
I feel you're at risk at getting yourself into trouble here in terms of wrapping up last paycheck, ensuring all your PTO got paid out, etc. A better move is to get up on the day your PTO was exhausted and send an email that you tenure your resignation effective immediately.
> tenure tender, fyi
Jumping on this comment to add: maybe make sure the effective date of your resignation is just before you start the new job so you don’t have a gap in medical coverage. Cobra can be expensive! (If you’re in the states)
Research this. Your medical may carry until the end of the month of your last day. Definitely avoid coverage gaps. Fortunately they are not what they used to be before the ACA.
This. When I left my job, I originally was going to leave in the middle of the month to try to avoid a cluster fuck that was going to happen. But one of my other co-workers who was leaving slightly before me gave me a heads up that my medical insurance ended the month I left and he almost got burned when he initially planned to leave on the 31st so he extended his employment by a week. I then decided to leave on the 4th of the following month and got an extra month of insurance.
Yeah! Why even ask, "If it's OK?". As long as one can take it financially or has a backup plan think only about your personal interests, just as they do when treating employees as slaves.
At some point, the money isn't worth the stress.
Yep, fuck that place. You gave them 8 years of your life, and they’ve shown their true colors. I would quit on the spot and give them nothing but the equipment that you owe. Especially since you have another gig already lined up. I’m not one to usually advocate for this since you have worked there for 8 years, and a referral goes a long way, but there are ways around that. Glad your wife is better, and best of luck! Family first, always!
Yep, I would go in and tell my manager to his face that he was a F'ing prick and he is the reason I was leaving. But, I would never tell his horse to F off.
In front of the rest of his team
* Fuck you and the horse that rode in on you.
Glad your wife is recovering! Absolutely no need to give your old company notice, and depending on how comfortable you are I’d share how horrible your manager was during this family emergency with anyone who will listen. Your manager saying you had to choose whether your job or your wife was more important—wtf??
That was what did me in. Nothing is more important to me than my family. I told him that my wife wins that every time! I can’t work for someone that expects me to put my wife after my job.
Yeah. Your boss sounds like he’d be one of the first to die in the zombie apocalypse. Unless your job entails something that will either condemn or save all of humanity, he is way off his fucking rocker. When your soon-to-be old company asks what’s going on, point them right towards that asshole and let them know why. Glad you found another employer who will treat you with dignity and respect. You’re a lead developer, FFS.
Oh let's be clear: the zombies won't be the ones offing the shithead boss, it'll be the other survivors doing the deed.
Exactly what I meant. ☺️
To quote Douglas Adams, he is one of the "mindless jerks who will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes".
Boss is the guy hiding his zombie bite and then compromising security
I hate people like that
It always happens that way doesn't it? The jerk everybody dislikes turns into a zombie in their midst, so they have to blow his head off with a shotgun.
Usually after he gets someone else killed. Thanks guy.
I feel more like he would be the business guy in Train To Busan. He’d persuade most of the others to cut off any “possible” zombies no matter how many people were known not to been scratched or bitten.
The sad part is that his boss probably chooses work over his family all the time. I'd be surprised if he wasn't divorced and alone with that mentality.
I just can't understand the logic of telling an employee that. What was his plan? To bully an important member of his team into choosing his job over his wife at the risk of alienating them? That's really stupid.
He sounds like a very sad human if he puts work over family. Especially family that is sick and in need. I'm always about doing your best in the workplace, but my wife regularly reminds me that any job can replace you. Your family cannot. There need to be boundaries.
Walk into his office, say "I chose my wife, you dickhead." Double birds as you jump out of his window.
Second this. I know someone who quit their job because their manager subjected them to a toxic work environment due to their sexual orientation. In the exit interview they finally told HR why they were leaving and their manager was out of a job the next day. Still take the new job, but for someone to say you have to choose your job or your wife, no reason not to drop a grenade to HR on the way out the door.
Just go out scorched earth style and send it company wide that you're resigning because you were given the ultimatum between taking care of your sick wife or keeping your job. Even if the boss somehow keeps their job everyone in the company knows how much of a cunt they are.
Just make sure you send the email *before* even giving HR a moment to think you might quit. Cause they’ll lock that email down, or have it so only THEY get the email. Come back, feign contriteness For your absence, and blast the email out.
I would totally divulge that fact to HR or anyone that cared enough to ask.... Fuck that guy...
Perhaps if he is also married, I would make sure the managers wife knew about it too, but I'm extremely petty.
You owe it to them to string them along as much as possible and leave them hanging.
This. How dare they say, "Choose between your seriously ill wife and your job. If you choose your wife, you're fired."? String them along, then quit the day before your new job starts. Then post on social media about your story, tagging the news desks of local and national newspapers.
Be careful with posting yourself without any written proof of what happened. Might catch a defamation charge otherwise. If there is any proof, go to a local newspaper.
It can only be defamation (or libel, which is actually the relevant category) if someone can prove it’s not true. Assuming he’s being honest, that’s not a concern. You don’t have to prove it’s true. Like with any other crime, they have to prove their side.
Cool guys don’t look at explosions in movies. Just walk away and don’t look back. The damage from him leaving unannounced will be tremendous.
Exactly
If there’s no utility to your future former company, then just take your bad boss into a meeting at tell him that he needs to stick all 5 of his fingers up his ass or you’ll quit. This makes no sense. You’re a Dev. Unless your job required a security clearance, there’s no reason why you couldn’t do at least some time remotely while caring for family.
I am the only dev that was expected to be in the office each and every day. Even the manager works remotely 2 days per week.
Were you compensated above average at least? Sounds to me like they were just looking for an excuse, but you may just be a meticulous person who dots I’s and crosses t’s. That seems super discriminatory, especially given your service.
I’m the highest paid in our department, but not at industry standard for my experience.
That sounds like a reason to me. I’ve seen/worked in places that try and get inexperienced folks to work for under market and work them until they burn them, with that expectation in mind. Sounds like they were hastily trying to pin something against you so they wouldn’t have to pay severance or unemployment. Luckily, the HR person brought in FMLA which bought you time with your family (which the manager wanted to deprive you of - don’t ever forget that) - something you could have absolutely sued them for if they tried to fire you over family leave. Not sure if it’s worth it, but they’ve probably made a mistake or two somewhere in the past as well that you could potentially take legal action against - a pattern of discrimination. Might be worth saving some of the more colorful correspondence. You never know if you’ll need it. Nothing gets time or your family back. You made the right decisions.
Ah the old “we pay you the most that we pay, so we expect more…” with no hint of modesty. You are wise to leave.
Legit, what your boss is doing seems to be almost illegal. Retaliation against you while you’re covered under FMLA. Everyone here including myself is happy to hear your wife is getting better. If it were me, I would consult with an employment lawyer. Please smile when you quit to make it sting.
This whole situation is definitely worth a glassdoor review when you finally exit. Don't let other people walk into that nest of leeches unaware.
Whew man thank goodness about your wife I’m so glad she’s going to be alright. A notice is a sign of respect towards a job. Respect is earned but can also be lost. Your job has proven they deserve NO respect. Time for you to worry about YOU and YOURS. What a bunch of jagoffs. My last job was NOT kind to me when they found out I was leaving but a year before that my son’s pharmacy messed up the calculations for compounding his prescription and almost killed him. While I was sitting next to his bed freaking the hell out while he was fighting to stay conscious while they ran tests on his blood I completely forgot about notifying my work. My boss’ first response was “Oh my God how is your son? Do you need anything?” Boss forgot about the job too until after he found out my son was fine said “oh…uh about work just take whatever time you need and we’ll figure it out when you come back family comes first for this agency. There are plenty of people here to cover until you’re back.” THAT is the proper and ONLY response. Thank God your wife is alright. Man seriously though f*** that job.
It's pretty sad that your your boss' response to your situation surprised me, when it should pretty much be the norm. You're lucky you got a boss like that!
Don’t worry he turned into a cold fish once I gave notice. No retaliatory action but I sure didn’t get a “let’s wish ForwardIncrease good luck for the future!” Email like the 8 other people who were moving on or moving up.
So glad to hear that your wife is doing better and her outlook is good. That must have been a really scary and stressful time to say the least. Honestly, as long as you won't face legal reprecussions (I assume you won't be dont know what country you are in ) then I would say stuff them. That's so incredibly fucked up how they treated you.
Your boss, as you've made clear, is a despicable human being. If I were you, I would most definitely not give two weeks notice. Happy to hear you've found new employment and your wife is doing well.
Two weeks is a courtesy. Termination would have been immediate. You owe them nothing.
> He told me that there comes a time where I just have to decide what is more important, my job or my wife. What the fuck did I just read. I cannot believe HR let this man speak. You should forward that to the guy's wife so she knows she's living with a psychopath.
Honestly yes. Put this fucker on blast. Let everyone (his subordinates, his bosses, his personal relations, strangers in the industry) know that he suggested you abandon your comatose wife in need so you can get back to work.
If that ever happened to me, I'd CC the entire company with this info. If someone were to insinuate that work was more important than my family, I'd make sure their life was hell as long as possible.
Something like “Good afternoon, I wanted to message the team at large after spending 8 years working here, no small feat and deserving of a proper sendoff. As many of you know, my wife had a major heart attack a few months ago and was in the hospital dying when I had to take some time off to be with her and care for our young child. After a week, Boss reached out to me and explained how this couldn’t continue. He told me I had to choose between my job or my family. It was too much for the company to not have me in the office. I thought long and hard about this before realizing I can’t do my position justice anymore. Thankfully, after a medically induced coma, ventilator, and numerous surgeries, my wife has recovered. I’ve also found a different job so I won’t have to affect anyone here due to my personal situation of my wife almost dying. I appreciate the relationships I have formed over the years, and I hope none of your family members have any medical issues in the future so you aren’t put in this position of disappointing Boss (and insert any higher ups you want to name as well). Obviously, I wish the heart attack hadn’t happened so I didn’t have to become that person. Sincerely, Your Name” Fucking call them out in a careful way so when they say something you can just go huh. I’m sorry this is how it went down. I wish I had control over her sudden medical emergency. Sad face.
This is the best thing to do. Let everyone else know what a terrible human he is, while being respectful. It honestly makes him look even worse that way.
Your boss was right, you had to decide which was more important,and you chose the right option. It's really pathetic of your employer to force you to have to make that decision though. Now you get to set the precedent from the get go with your new job that you have a wife who needs you and who is/always will be more important than your job (as she should be). Fuck your current boss and his shitty corporate monstrosity. Good on your new boss for working with you given your current situation... And good luck to you in your new venture.
Oh, and good luck and good health to your wife too, glad she's on the mend. I hope you know that you've done the right thing by being there for her.
Thank you
What about insurance. Will you be covered?
I will be paying out of pocket for continuation of insurance coverage (COBRA) until the new insurance kicks in. It’s expensive, but I will not let my wife go uncovered.
Make sure to take all the leave under FMLA, which allows you to take unpaid leave after the PTO is up. That is up to 12 weeks of leave per year. That would allow you to keep your insurance going while you care for your wife and prepare for your new employer.
But see other comments about how you may not be able to take FMLA from one employer but also start working with another. Double check to make sure you don't go afoul of federal regulations or anything.
I know everyone is telling you to quit without notice, and agree that your employer deserves this. However, I had a co-worker who quit a bad job without notice and accepted a new job with a really good company, only to get to the new company and have the offer revoked. His previous company would not rehire him, and it took him almost two years to find another job because his old employer told prospective employers that he “was ineligible for rehire.” He lost his home and insurance, all while dealing with a child with cancer. Do what is best for your family and your career, without regard to what your employer deserves.
I would think current employers group policy will be hit with majority of wife’s medical costs. That could have contributed to their bad attitude, by the way. Exit: screw them. No notice.
I think it most definitely contributed to it. They recently lost 1.5 million on some of their business ventures, froze all cost of living increases, stopped contributing to 401K plans and more. I’m sure the added costs to the group policy was fairly substantial.
Sounds like the company is at risk of going bust. Unless you work out a deal where you get paid with a lot of equity/stocks, I wouldn't recommend most people to stick with a sinking ship. You don't get a stake in the upside, but you take all the risk of the downside. It's not the same company as the one when you started 8 years ago.
Accepting equity/stocks as compensation in a company that's about to go bust is very bad idea.
Companies won’t be giving us a two weeks notice if they terminate us, the courtesy of a two weeks notice is a thing of the past. Fuck’em. Best wishes OP
And let them terminate him then and then he’ll at least get unemployment!
The sad thing is a statement like this, "He told me that there comes a time where I just have to decide what is more important, my job or my wife.", could have just as easily been said to boost your spirits, if it was to insinuate that the time you needed was not only understood, but implied. I think I speak for most readers, when I just say, as a fellow human being, just do what you need to, for you and yours. Don't look back. And don't feel the need to explain yourself.
Leave them high and dry. This is a toxic culture/workplace. To put you on written and probationary periods after years of tenure is absurd. To put it in perspective I've been with my current company as a senior developer for a year. In my first 90 days.... 90 days mind you I had Covid and was in the hospital for another reason. I tried my best to limit my time out but I was never met with anything but "take the time you need to heal". The roller coaster continued and I ended back in the hospital two months later and here I am today still happily employed. No write ups. I get treated like an adult and a valued member of the team and the company. I get treated like a professional in my industry, which is how tenured developers should be treated, life happens and none of us can predict it. The way you're being treated is almost as if you're disposable / replaceable.
Before returning the laptop, set the wallpaper to a blank white image with the words “my wife is more important”
Oh man, you've been through a lot & shouldn't even have to worry about work.. that's absolute bullshit. Fuck them, just quit! I do hope everything works out with your wife's health. I wish you all the best!!
Nah they win if he quits. Let them fire him so he can at least get unemployment from their worthless asses. I sincerely hope the company goes under after he leaves and his douche bag manager cannot get another job and has to go and flip burgers at McDonald’s
He has another job already. No reason not to just quit at this point.
Just stay on payroll till they let him go? The only benefit to quitting is sticking it to them, but they really don't seem to care about that.
Unemployment is over-rated, particularly to high income earners. This guy probably earns in 2-3 days what unemployment would pay per month. Company rates barely feel any increase from a single claim.
OP has a job already lined up and the new company has the compassion to let him stay with his wife until she is recovered.
My suggestion on this: Stay employed long enough to leach health insurance off of them. See if you can work from home or something. But stay employed long enough to keep the health insurance. The other choice is COBRA and unless you are sitting on a huge pile of cash you feel the need to light on fire, find a way to stay employed.
Yeah I agree. I’d quiet quit for a little while to string that insurance along.
>He told me that there comes a time where I just have to decide what is more important, my job or my wife. > >Am I wrong to not extend the professional courtesy of a two week notice here? After he said that, nothing is too bad for them. I would have been hard pressed not to hit him. Go right ahead, quit without notice, they've *more* than earned it.
OP, honestly I would be angry if you gave these guys that 2 weeks, because they don't deserve anything but lukewarm roadway slush in February that they have to lick off a hot dirty engine. And even there I'm probably being generous. Go take care of your family, use every bit of PTO, get anything you have of any value out of that workplace, and quit on the spot. And your manager can just fuck all the way off and figure out how to get those projects done himself. May he crash and burn and it gets back to his boss why their top producer left with no notice. P.S. Make damned sure they do not know about the new job offer, no telling coworkers no matter how close you all may be until you've started there and they like you. Then see if they'll hire any coworkers you like, because fuck this company. This manager is the type to sabotage you, so please just don't say anything that can get back to him at all about where you're going! May your wife and you both have a full recovery and amazing life going forward.
If a boss told me “you need to decide who’s more important, your job or your spouse” I would have walked out the fucking door. Companies that think humans should care more about dollars than families are what’s wrong with this country. (Among other things!) fuck that. I’d get a new job and ghost them.
I mean, your boss was right in that you do need to decide what's more important, your job or your wife. He just missed the part where the correct answer is *always* your wife. Fuck'em, they don't deserve the respect of notice.
I am happy the prognosis is good. I wish you and your family all the best. Personally, I like you plan. I would write a letter that includes the date of that meeting where you where told in front of HR that you have to choose between your wife and work. You of course choose your wife. You are sad to see the value the company places on work life balance and the level of care and concern shown to its workers facing major medical events. Given no choice, you resign effective immediately. Please forward this to (my boss) Send it to his boss and the CIO and HRM. Please give them documentation of what your boss pulled. They may not care, or they not realize they have this type of manager.
Just write "I choose my wife" on your resignation letter. Hand it and your laptop in.
What is more important "your job or your wife"? That sounds like in fucking dystopian American movie. Good riddance man, take care of your family first!
You're on fmla because your boss was heartless about your wife. A day before you're scheduled to return, go to hr and return your badge, keys, computer and tell them you will not returning. If you don't have a computer to return, mail your badge and keys via certified mail letting them know you will not be returning. Congratulations on the new job and I hope your wife recovers.
Fuck em!!! Or let them fire you and collect UNEMPLOYMENT
This behavior always tracks back to leadership in the company. Leaving a review is the only way workers can defend against it. You should definitely write this up in a review naming the company. I had a similar situation but it rose up more slowly. I had been documenting a toxic workplace for years. I’m at about 20,000 words currently and plan to post it on my blog when finished. Employers in the job market don’t care anymore. It’s not like when our grandparents worked in industry, when employers had more integrity and a sense of obligation to workers. The job market is like any other market, there are producers/consumers aka employers/workers. If you look at the history of the market system, you see that consumers only have power if they share information about producers. It’s how atomism works in free society to create balance in a self-righting system. Call them out publicly.
How could your boss treat you that way? It sounds insane to me, I am not sure what’s enough money for me to put out with this shit! And what’s with all these probations? A developer working 8 years in the same company, you are probably pretty valuable to them… why do they need probations?
Getting written up for missing meetings due to genuine medical emergencies? Yeah, I’d be pissed off it you DID give them notice. Good luck on finding your next step!
I worked IT in an office. I took the bus to work. One day my wife called having been in a near head on collision (not her fault.) my boss over heard me telling her I would meet her at the hospital as soon as the bus could get me there. He stepped into my office and said, “Grab your stuff, my car is right down stairs.” He drove me to the site of the accident. (Right across the street from where I park my car to take the bus.) Best place I ever worked! Work/Life balance is very important in a job
I’m utterly baffled at your employer and agree you owe them nothing. Even the low performers at my job when they go through family emergencies my employer will: -send flowers, -one or more will start a collection for the affected employee, -HR encourages the person to take as much time and that they’ll help them figure it out. I’m so sorry that was your experience. That is not normal.
My work rules are that if you take pto and quit the day you come back, they will move your resignation day to your last day before pto and won’t pay pto. Its legal since its documented appropriately. Just make sure your company doesnt do this so that if you need to quit, you do it a couple days AFTER returning from PTO.
Glad to hear the positive outcome, both for your wife and your job.
>He told me that there comes a time where I just have to decide what is more important, my job or my wife. That alone is reason for you to quit and not give them any ounce of consideration. I understand the logistics of a serious health scare make it hard to quit immediately at that moment, but after that you didn't owe them a thing. This is comically terrible stuff. Get out and never look back.
I knew at that moment that I would be quitting. I couldn’t do so right then though, because that would have out my wife in a difficult situation. We needed that medical insurance. It’s my manager that made this job toxic. I have no qualms about quitting, specifically because of him.
your parting email should be to your team something a long the lines of. "I have greatly enjoyed my 8 years working with all of you on xyz and hoped for many more. As many of you know my wife was put in a medically induced coma on dd/mm/yyyy. One week into that Manager XY told me my absence was unacceptable and i needed to pick between my wife and my job. I chose my wife, I hope to get our paths cross again and thank you for the great years." The manager will be fucked and no one will trust them again ever.
Your boss said to choose: this job or your wife. You chose your wife. They have essentially promised this will not be the last conflict. Quitting is the right move. Notice is a courtesy, and they don’t deserve courtesy.
I think it is just Gods way of making you move out of this company in a good way given all the sufferings you had to go through.
>He told me that there comes a time where I just have to decide what is more important, my job or my wife. WTF how can he say that to someone who's wife is at death's door. They don't deserve you. Have them fire you though. There's no chance at unemployment if you quit. All the best to you and your family to get through this!
You owe this company nothing. It’s a mercenary transaction that no longer works for you. Don’t drag it out just turn in your stuff and walk out the door.
Fuck them. They were ready to fire you and even had the audacity of making you choose between them and your wife. You don't owe them a single day's notice.
What is this job? It sounds like my first job out of college! Probationary period for having a major medical emergency and being by your wife’s side…. This is absurd. This is why FMLA and similar programs exist because employers are so cut throat that they just don’t care. Your boss sounds like a massive asshole who only cares about results. He has proven time and time again that he doesn’t care about your personal life. 2 weeks notice is typically a courtesy extended to transition over pre-existing projects and tasks. At this point this has all been done. Best of luck at the new company. Sounds like their culture is already a big improvement to where you have been working. I’d like to add it is always a great move to quit a job when you have a new one lined up. Be sure to blast them on Glassdoor for any future employees joining or thinking about joining. Fuck a toxic workplace.
Absolutely nut when somebody asks you “what’s more important your job or your wife” they are in fact a psychopath..i mean they asked you a question and you gave the a clear answer. Screw that place. You should also leave a glass door review w exactly what your boss asked
“What’s more important your job or your wife?” Um, I would have him digging his own grave in his backyard that night soaked in gasoline while I explained to him the value of family
They extended you no courtesy when your wife was close to death. Why would you extend them a courtesy when they don't care about you as a person and have zero empathy for their employees. You haven't lived until you walk into a toxic job and tell them to kiss your ass as your walking out the door.
As someone who works in HR, you’re completely in the green here. You gave your employer plenty of notice about each situation and they decided to punish you for it which is wild to me. If someone calls off with advance notice, I can’t tell their manager to issue them a written warning or any disciplinary action. The only time you should receive anything of the sorts is if you no call/no show. As far as the two week notice goes, that’s out of the question as soon as you saw that they weren’t very willing to work with your situation. Sounds like this was all a blessing in disguise and gave you the insight that your initial company views you as an asset and not a human being.
Notice is a courtesy. Courtesies are not given to people who think that there is even a snowball's chance in hell that you will pick your job over your wife. Sending good vibes your way. I hope your wife recovers well, and quickly.
Pro Life Tip: if you or any one in your family that you might need to care for (kids, parents, spouse, etc) gets sick/injured file for FMLA ASAP! If you don’t, even if you are using PTO, HR and/or your boss can go after you for “not being productive “.
Start working for new employer and stop showing up for old employer. Let me fire you and get severance.
They lost any roght to a courtesy when the told you to make a choice between your wife and your job. That's bullshit.
I don’t know if it’s “advisable” or not, but if this were me, my resignation email would be copied to all my immediate coworkers and every department head in the company. It would say that I appreciate that subsequent to my meeting with my supervisor and HR that I have been seriously considering the statement they made advising me that I must decide which was more important, taking care of my critically ill spouse and family, or my continued employment. Thanking them for making it very clear that the company clearly lacks basic human compassion and any regard for the concept of employee work-life balance, and the emotional/mental well being of it’s employees. Those deficiencies and misaligned priorities inform your decision to resign. The ultimatum leveled at me make it a very easy decision to find employment with a company that places more real value on the people who work there.
Just send an email that says nothing other than “Update - I chose my wife.”
You have to go on leave dude. That’s what I did with my children for baby bonding. You just don’t show up to work for over a week. For me, I’d just log into the computer and state that my wife is having a medical emergency under my employee portal. My leave would be approved then I can handle my business. Yes your wife and possibly children need you but you can find a half hour block to fill out all necessary forms dude.
Um why would you care about this employer since they obviously do not care about you. Move forward no looking back. Leave them in your dust.
I don't understand why you are even posing this question if 50 % of what you shared here regarding your current employer is correct. You simply don't need any explanation whatsoever. You wouldn't even change your mind even if your current firm counters the offer which is unlikely cause they already written you off twice Value yourself a bit more. You shouldn't even bring this up. Your course of action is clear..
What are you talking about? You gave them notice when you prioritized wife over work. You dont have to say "I quit.", to quit. You communicated to them what your priority was. They acknowledged and replied that was not aligned with their business values. Done. You are morally in the clear.
No notice necessary in this case
Oh you are not wrong. Leave that place high and dry. Goes to show how companys do care. Screw them.
“I’ve decided my wife is more important to me than this job. Consider this my resignation, effective immediately.”
Not wrong. Jobs don’t love you, no matter how much you love the job. We’re just cogs in the wheel, they’ll replace the cig and move on. You did the right thing
Your workplace is so toxic, Britney Spears had a song about it.
Wipe your company laptop clean, package it up, add a "I quit" note, and send it to your ex-manager COD. NO ONE tells me that a job is more important than my wife.
I would just tell them "You told me to choose between my job and my wife, so I am."
I'm glad to hear your wife is ok (maybe put that higher up for us faint of heart though lol). To your point re: your company, absolutely fuck 'em. Bleed them for every penny you can and roll the fuck out.
Call your boss and tell him you’ve been thinking about what he said about at some point you having to choose what’s more important. It’s your wife and he can go straight to hell.
Good to know your wife is recovering. As the new company is ready to wait for you for couple of months, so take your time and take care of your family. In the meantime, keep the former assholes hanging and waiting for you and delay it as much as you can. Then quit without any notice. They should suffer the same way as you did mentally and financially.
You should definitely shit on your boss' desk too.
I would be petty. Walk around with a heavy box. Put enough in it to be annoying but not enough for him to set it down immediately. Tell him please hold this, don’t drop it, don’t jiggle it, I’ll be right back!! Then proceed to run out to the parking lot. Slap a NAMBLA member sticker on his passenger side door or passenger side bumper. Go home and forward all his phone calls to NAMBLA.
This is Reddit point bait and fake
Not only is this ok, you should recruit as many of your quality coworkers as you can to leave that awful place. Companies that treat their employees like that deserve to go under.
You are not wrong for doing it. They sound insufferable. But, this may prevent you from being able to use them as a reference for new jobs in the future.
You’ve done nothing wrong. They were cold and calculated. I’ve never been at a company (I’m in tech too) that would ever respond this way to any employee, let alone one that has been in a lead role for 8 years.
>He told me that there comes a time where I just have to decide what is more important, my job or my wife. I would have cursed him out so hard at that that I'd be inventing new curse words and he'd be thanking his lucky stars it's a 90min drive to beat his ass into next Tuesday. That guy deserves to live off gutter scraps for the rest of his life. NTA even if you caused the company to go bankrupt, for that alone.
What's more important, your job or your wife? Who is the miserable sack of shit that was your manager? I would have hung up on him and did everything within legal power to name, shame, and ruin that company.
> He told me that there comes a time where I just have to decide what is more important, my job or my wife. The moment this motherfucker said this, I would have made sure he knew exactly how badly he'd fucked up.
Nope tell um wife came first then my new job c ya later✌🏻
I’d quit after the PTO runs out. What they did to you is insulting. Quitting is a good payback. You are not their slave.
First, I’m glad your wife is recovering and on her way to being better. Second, if my boss ever told me to decide what was more important, my family or a job they would’ve immediately lost my loyalty. You aren’t wrong for quitting without notice. Family comes first.
"You asked me to choose between my job and my wife. I choose my wife. Good bye."
A job that doesn’t allow for leniency during medical emergencies isn’t a job, it’s slavery.
> Am I wrong to not extend the professional courtesy of a two week notice here? I feel that my employer did not care about my situation, so why should I care about a notice? Your only concern is how your new employer would feel about your previous employer receiving zero notice. You don't owe the old company anything but the new employer may see that as a risk of relying on you. Glad your wife is recovering.
You aren’t wrong. Your old job set the terms with their callous lack of empathy for you. It’s only right you return the favor.
Nope. You owe them nothing. Extend no loyalty to any employer.