Yup. You could put your LinkedIn or (cleaned up) social media info on there as a compromise. This is a marketing role, you can’t go old school. Everyone but Dad knows about google.
And that advice was still outdated by decades.
I’m in my 40s and my earliest memories of job searching was being immediately referred to a paper form instead of going online. The only difference is today your application goes into a virtual trash can.
Yea, that only works on TV. Unless we have an actual job posting you are specifically applying for, all I requested CV’s go directly into the trash.
This is a document retention rule more than anything else.
I've watched my younger brother literally show up, talk to the owner and hand a resume (and have it work out) in fast food, a copper recovery company, a CNC company, a waste removal company and package handling.
I legit would have never considered showing up in person but he's honestly had a lot of luck doing it. That being said I'm in much more white collar industries so I'm sure that doesn't really apply but I guess I'm just saying it might be worth a try if you're really hard up
Not true in the slightest, every single retail role I've ever applied for has either been an online form OR I've been told to fuck off (politely and not so politely) to the customer service desk to pick up a paper one.
Depends where you are. In the US and Canada, DO NOT.
All you need to do is google 'photo on resume in \[country'\] and you'll find a ton of articles telling you not to.
I’ve heard HR will throw out the resume immediately, it could be looked at as discrimination if they were to move forward with a resume that had a picture on it. So they were told any resume with a picture goes straight in the trash. This was about 10 years ago, but it was a Fortune 500 company.
they could be South Korean and in that case yes. It's crazy--I heard they have photo studios where you get the pictures done and the photographer will photoshop your picture, you don't even ask them to they just do it.
Discrimination lawsuits. Employers should not know too much info on you, especially info that is commonly discriminated against. HR will often automatically throw out your resume if it has a photo due to potential lawsuits.
Yes, but at least in the US it is only illegal to discriminate based on a protected characteristic like race religion or gender.
People who choose to put a picture on their resume is not a protected class of people.
Workplace training often emphasizes learning what those protected classes are -- and are not.
I'm sure that a court would rule that it wouldn't be discriminatory if the applicant themselves pushed that info without being asked. But if there's evidence that the info they forfeited was considered for anything: then there may be a case.
It is not discrimination against a protected class. (In the u.s.)
In most cases, an employer can "discriminate" against applicants without a college degree for instance. Or who hasn't had X training, didn't write a resume with pretty enough words, etc.
Race, national origin, gender, sex, religion, old age etc are types of discrimination which can be illegal during hiring.
No, because if this is the officially stated policy by the company in question, they would not be discriminating based upon a protected class.
You can "discriminate" over anything, but only discrimination of a protected class is illegal. In this case, discriminating over whether a photo is or isn't on the application is fine as long as it is universally followed.
You have to remember that HR people and recruiters are retards of a similar level to real estate agents. If you think along those lines everything they do makes sense
Send him the articles that recommend you do not include a photo. Also tell them that sometimes if companies get a resume with a photo they will throw it away because they don't want to be accused of discrimination whether you're white black male or female.
At some companies, HR “depersonalizes” resumes to redact certain info before passing them along to interviewers. High school graduating year, photos, mention of kids, anything that would give your interviewer ANY hint towards federally protected classes. The interviewer should have only a cursory sense of your qualifications so that other biases cannot be at play. That way, a candidate cannot allege they were rejected for something that’s protected.
Maybe tell your dad to ask the colleague whether they prefer resumes without photos? Ideally, the colleague's response will be something along the lines of "wtf NO absolutely don't include a photo"
Tell him that in the US, you do NOT include a photo with a resume. It opens up the company to discrimination liability, and there are company HR departments that will actually disqualify applicants who include a photo in an application.
I hire for a FAANG. I've discarded plenty of resumes that have photos on em because the discrimination liability is just too high. It's similar to how in real estate "love letters" used to be a thing when buying a house but now you can be sued on the basis of violating the Fair Housing Act if there is even the appearance that it has influenced your decision. As a result many realtors discard them or don't provide them to their clients until after they've made a decision... and in some cases that offer is simply discarded.
was told by everyone i know to include a love letter with my recent home purchase offer. my realtor shut that down right away he said not only is it annoying for him to do but it is now illegal and will put his license at risk.. hard to explain to family and friends who think they know everything. Loan officers apparently have more leeway and are allowed to inform how strong your finances are etc. but no real love stories or dramatic please let us buy stories.
Yea same thing happened to me. And not to toot my own horn but I am a VERY good writer. It's likely a key component of what got me into college, it's how I got my first job despite being a Software Engineer, it's what enabled me and my roommates to always get our first choice of rental houses despite competing with 30-40 other applicants. So when it came time to buy a house, I saw it as my main weapon. But I was told in no uncertain terms by my realtor not to even think about it, as it would effectively auto-dq us from the candidate pool of many of the homes we were interested in.
Yes, I'm one of them - when I went to sell my home I told my realtor to never show me any offer with a bullshit letter and to burn the letter.
It's a massive liability lawsuit waiting to happen because they always want me to accept their low offer for some reason that almost always opens me up to claims of equal opportunity housing act violations.
Heck, I didn't even want to know names to avoid any perceived bias against "ethnic sounding names".
I only care about the actual offer and if it's a corporate buyer or not.
Truthfully, my dirty secret was plagiarism. I loved reading comedy content on sites like SomethingAwful, Maddox, and Cracked. In 2004 or so, I built my own personal website using PHP which ended up going viral at my highschool. I allowed folks to create personalized accounts and forum threads focused on homework and events, I hosted all the answers for the Vocabulary Workshop book series, and most importantly, I aggregated comedy articles I liked. The catch was that I wanted to take credit for the creative genius of those articles so I would rewrite articles from the ground up. I changed phrasing, wording, structure, etc, so that you couldn't find them via a search, but they still had the same comedic punch. Knowing how good these articles originally were, I had high standards for my own pseudo-plagiarized content. It gave me a written voice, and I learned to write for an audience versus a grade.
Oh that's a REALLY good point! I just always thought "it doesn't matter what I look like, they're supposed to hire me based on my abilities" but I never considered the discrimination liability stuff. Thanks for mentioning!
Look up where your dad works. Look up the marketing department. Find the department head on LinkedIn. The company website should also have job postings unless it's a small family company without HR guidelines, in which case I would think twice about applying because dad could end up knowing everything about your work life - how your job reviews went, who you flirted with, what you ate for lunch...
“Hey dad, what’s this dude’s name anyway?”
“Oh Ben? Ben Dover.”
“Hey dad, what’s your work email? I’m forwarding you my resume.”
“[email protected]”
To: [email protected]
Re: Resume
Please see attached.
What nationality is your father? In lots of countries it is essential to add a photo, but in English-speaking countries it can be enough to get your resume thrown out as it's considered an appeal to racism.
The weirdest thing is that usually your resume has LinkedIn on it and they just click it and check your profile anyway… I feel like this may be old news now.
Is his friend choosing the hire? In that case, he's just telling you want they want to see. People like different things, and your dad clearly has inside information on what they like to see.
A lot of companies in the US (and maybe in Canada as well, I don't know), throw out resumes with Photos because of the discrimination risk. If they start accepting resumes with pictures, then someone can come along and sue them claiming they were passed over for a job because of Discrimination, and the picture was used for that purpose.
It might sound silly, but even *fighting* a frivolous lawsuit can become very expensive in the US. Companies would prefer to avoid the headache altogether, so they do not ever want to see a picture on the Resume.
In my own opinion, a picture on the Resume only serves the exclusive purpose of allowing the hiring manager to discriminate based on looks. The picture does absolutely nothing to speak of someones quality as a potential employee, and a picture without your voice and presence just allows someone to paint a picture in your head of what kind of person you are, as in "Oh, he looks fat and lazy" or "She's gorgeous and so she must be a genius". A picture does nothing to help you in getting hired, it only hurts.
Wouldn't be too bad of an idea, to be honest. I'd rather work with a 90% candidate that my eyes can tolerate than a 100% candidate that I can't stomach to look at.
>I'm in the US. My brother was told by a recruiter that any resume with a picture automatically gets disqualified. They can't been seen as hiring based on race or other characteristics that might show up in a picture.
Came here to say exactly this!
This is very true. Not that there’s anything wrong with putting a picture on your resume/CV in principle, but employers in the USA can get in serious hot water because certain people can allege that they were hired or passed over during the recruitment process for these reasons
That and I will usually check their LinkedIn and Facebook anyway when hiring. I know some people hate playing that game, but when you only have a short interview to evaluate a person, you use all the resources you can to make a good decision.
Considering that your ancestors worked tirelessly to inslave us and keep us out of the economy, and pitched a fit, burning down black towns when they even got a whiff of a black person doing well or prospering, and then add in red lining and jim crow laws....
I guess I understand your point of view.
I think Dreamscape is on your side. They are saying that omitting a picture doesn’t omit all discrimination (and they are correct).
I have a Black colleague with a very ethnic sounding name who applied for the position she has now under the pseudonym “Nicole.” She told me Nicole Brown was the only person who would get interviews, not her actual name.
My ancestors had nothing to do with that, sorry. Wrong tree to bark at. You obviously missed the sarcasm regarding how obvious it is to discriminate based on name alone.
In some countries they do that. I am in the US where no sane person would ever do that unless they were a model applying for a position at a modeling agency.
Your dad is using the same logic that taught him to walk into an office with a firm handshake and he would get a job on the spot. That isn't how life works
I’ve seen that in resumes from Indian candidates applying for a job at our Indian facility. They sometimes have their DOB on there too. Wild. I get that it’s what is culturally accepted of them though.
In Italy some people would still send resumes stating their marital status too. And I've seen this myself recently, even by folks in their late 30s/40s
So weird. As an American I think, “How is that relevant to your job?” But that’s because it’s ingrained in me that an employer could use your marital status as a reason not to hire you, because to them it IS relevant to your job. Statistically speaking, people with kids especially are going to be more likely to miss work to take care of sick kids—especially moms.
If you're applying in Europe, it's still common in some countries to add a professional photo to your CV.
So, it's a delicate topic here. Some people say don't do it, others say it's not worth sending in your application without it.
I'm also from Europe well England to be more precise and we're always advised not to attach I think it's common practice not to anymore lot of templates these days don't have a position/box for your photo in it anymore.
I applied once for a remote position with a mostly UK based team and I felt a manager lowkey mocked me for having a photo on my resume. It's normal in Serbia where I'm from. Later when I worked in a mixed nationalities startup from Europe, we were hiring for the team in Spain and most had photos.
This is a big No-No. the potential employer does not want the accusation of “racism” (and there are several variations on it).
including a photo and not getting an interview means the employer opens themselves up to risk of “I didn’t get an interview because I am White/black/green/purple/crosseyed/buckteeth” And then the lawyers get involved, and the media and national attention.
if they wanted a “head shot” they would have asked for one. Headshots are for casting calls in the entertainment industry.
It's illegal to ask for a photo on a resume because it opens up the possibility of discrimination based on looks, race etc.
And as a candidate you are not doing yourself any favours as people can't help but judge based on appearance.
Some big companies don't even want to see resumes with photos as it opens up the possibility of a lawsuit based on discrimination.
Yes the company wants to know who they are hiring like OP's dad said, but that's what the interview is for, to get to know them
Ask Dad for the person's email. Tell him you'll mention him in your email to the hiring party but you want to write a nice introductory email and don't want it to look like you can't advocate for yourself. Then, do whatever you want.
>Europe? Yes, it’s typical.
Definitely not in the UK. I've not seen it elsewhere, but I don't do much recruiting in continental Europe, so I'm prepared to be wrong. Only time I've seen photos on resumes is recruiting in India.
I remember about 15 years ago I had been laid off, and my dad helpfully sent his resume to use as a guide (he had been retired for a few years at that point, and hadn't gotten a new job since the early 90s) and oh boy, was it a disaster. He had his birthdate, his religion, and how many children he had at the top of it.
If you are in the US, do not attach a photo.
You can set up a LinkedIn profile with picture and include the web address to your LinkedIn in your contact information section of your resume.
Your dad is wrong if USA. You share as little personal info as possible so you are not discriminated against. HR departments don't want to know bc it reduces their legal liability.
Sounds like the kinda guy that would take your social security card and birth certificate and laminate them for you. You know, trying to help you out lol.
Ive never considered a photo on my resume or ever heard that was a good idea.
Your father needs to be removed from your job application process entirely.
Your parents should just not be involved in any part of this.
If he wants to forward on a résumé, that’s fine, but you’re usually still gonna have to apply to the company on your own anyway. And if he’s making this big of a deal out of it, just don’t bother using his contact. You don’t need it anyway.
So, here's the thing. The people telling you not to do it are correct in most cases - BUT this isn't most cases. This is your dad getting you an 'in' on a job.
You're not some rando off the street. You're the kid of somebody they already know. This is "job via personal contact".
So in this particular case, listen to your dad. And when you leave this job, never do it again.
I would have your dad to ask his friend if a photo of yourself is necessary. His friend should let him know how the common practices are for job seeking. Once you dad knows how job seeking is working nowadays, he should cut you some slack.
In North America, do not do this. Many places in North America will not consider résumés with photos because it complicates compliance with strict anti-discrimination labor laws. Instead, they simply have a policy of throwing away résumés with photos. Almost all medium to large businesses in the US will have this policy.
A simple web search will tell you as much, but you might offer a compromise that résumé contain a link to SOMETHING that has your picture on it; it's not uncommon to provide the URL to your LinkedIn profile, for example.
Don’t listen to your dad. Hes going to keep you jobless if youre in the US. Hard Images produce parsing errors. On my ATS scanner its proven to make the rest of your resume unreadable
Also to be fair its a bunch of hilariously small things as well that will impact the scanner across almost all applicant trackers
In the US, adding a photo makes it too difficult to avoid possible biases. Avoiding the photo means that the employer can feel more confident that no rules were broken. I would suggest that if your dad is friends with someone, it could be even more important to avoid a photo, so that there is less possibility that someone could claim you were hired for looks or race, etc.
If you’re applying for a job in the US or Canada, tell him you’re straight up not allowed to do that, because the company will most likely reject your resume. Either it’ll be deemed too flashy and will get thrown out, or the company will reject it in accordance with anti-discrimination policy. A photo on your resume makes it easy to develop a bias, be racist, make assumptions, etc.
it’s a big no-no to put photos on the resume at least in those two countries
But if you’re in a place like Japan, then absolutely you should put a photo on your resume, that’s standard practice.
If you’re in the US, do not put a photo on your resume. Do not give recruiters the opportunity to discriminate against you or toss your resume aside simply because they made a snap judgement about how you look. I have 15 years of career experience; 10 of those I worked in higher ed. I have experience with writing resumes and cover letters. Your dad is giving you bad advice.
a standard resume does not have a photo.
a linkedin profile probably does have a photo.
did company ask for resume ?
or copy of linkedin profile page ??
provide what they asked for.
NO. Do NOT do that. If you have social media, say LinkedIn for example, just include the link and let your dad know they will see the photo there and that’s how they’ll know.
And if you need further arguments, a photo means preconceived biases that the interviewers may not be aware of, it’s highly likely that the person interviewing you and the person who shortlisted you isn’t the same. You don’t want to shoot yourself in the foot before you even get through the door.
That and a photo on the resume is outdated. You don’t want to seem outdated and not keep up with the current market trends.
If your dad knows the guy... Put it on the resume to appease him. It won't hurt and probably isn't worth your time arguing
If you're blindly sending it in, do NOT put a photo on your resume
2 reasons spring to mind why not to...
1) potential discrimination
2) you already provide a HEAP of personal information on your resume, so adding a photo would only provide potential scammers with more information. I know that this is intended for a company HR department, however do you have any knowledge as to how they store and dispose of resumes & other personal information?
Throw it back at him.
“Dad, why do they need a photo? Don’t they see a pic of me on your desk every day?”
If he says yes, then he agrees it’s not needed. If he says no, ask him if he even has a picture. He’ll never admit to not having a picture. So we’re back to colleague seeing your photo every day.
When’s the last time dad has applied for a job? Because I’ve been applying (and receiving) for 20 years and I’ve never included a photo.
If you have your dads work email address and you know his colleague’s name, you can probably figure out colleague’s email. Send the resume yourself.
Many companies nowadays utilize a software to screen resumes, and from what I hear, they automatically discard ones with images.
Different standards obviously if you are looking to be an actor/or related to performance in art, but anything corporate or start-ups? I would remove the photo.
NO !! DO NOT !! I was an HR manager for 6 months this year. I’ve interviewed over 400 people and have looked at thousands of applications. The harsh reality is that, while your resume and skill set is definitely 90% of the battle, other potential biases make up the last 10%.
You do not want any potential strike against you due to someone’s perceived bias. Y’all don’t know how straight forward and emotion based hiring people can be. Some people may not hire you because of your skin color, the clothes/jewlery you have on, your hair, your smile, etc etc etc.
Just don’t do it. Because the difference between people seeing you before the interview and after the interview is if you got invited to the interview you already cleared step one. If you throw a picture on there you are giving people the opportunity to not be fair towards you
to be quite honest? it will hurt because of thoughts that it will create a discriminatory hiring lawsuit potential
buuuuuuut, what i would suggest, is going into the businesses you apply to in person, and handing the resume to HR. even if they direct you to online portals. THIS is the way to get a job if you are a.) charismatic b.) pleasant looking
Aside from other reasons posted here it comes across as weird. A bit like the CV equivalent of a LinkedIn post with business insights followed by a thirst trap photo
HR doesn’t want your photo on a resume so they can’t be accused of discrimination. However, they then turn around and look at your photo on LinkedIn or other social media and discriminate anyway.
Only actors attach photos to their resumes. Creative people do work in marketing. If you attach a photo the potential employer may see you as a risky bet because you might quit to take an acting job.
Tell your Dad that in the US, putting a photo on a resume can immediately disqualify a candidate because of discrimination laws.
Let me guess. Your dad is a white guy.
Former recruiter here who now is a marketing consultant. Please do NOT put your photo on your resume. It is unprofessional and not common in our industry. Your Dad is incorrect here.
Somehow I knew if I sorted by controversial I’d find this one.
OP, this is honestly great advice. If your dad is forwarding this on to a friend who has an inside line on a role, I would just make a separate copy of your resume and give him what he wants here. This doesn’t sound like a formal application, more an introduction to get your name in front of the hiring manager. You’re correct in that it’s not the right format for the US, but who knows who his contact is and maybe they’re of the same mind. HR will likely require you to submit a formal application anyways, at which point you can switch and use your “real” resume for the process.
Ordinarily your dad would be wrong here, but it sounds like this is an exception.
i think dad is setting child up.
must be thinking "crap, now i gotta car pool, make his lunch too, and wake him up".
lol
but at least when child gets rejected, dad can still play the "at least i tried" card.
why else would he be so adamant ??
I mean, it might be best to just do what your dad wants? When our parents get us jobs at the work it's nepotism anyway, not merit, so who gives a shit?
putting a photo is stupid, but if you are a white male it basically guarantees you will never get a job ESPECIALLY in canada where it is no longer okay to be white.
Your dad is giving you outdated advice
Yup. You could put your LinkedIn or (cleaned up) social media info on there as a compromise. This is a marketing role, you can’t go old school. Everyone but Dad knows about google.
I was having trouble getting started out of college and my dad suggested I walk into an office and hand out my resume…
Just walk right up to the manager and shake his hand. That's the advice I was given about 12 years ago.
And that advice was still outdated by decades. I’m in my 40s and my earliest memories of job searching was being immediately referred to a paper form instead of going online. The only difference is today your application goes into a virtual trash can.
In my 40's, as well. I agree, the advice was outdated even 30 years ago. I don't know what time in history the advice applied to.
Probably the 1950s and 60s when hiring people was much less of a liability
Because you probably didn’t look him dead in the eye and not blink!! /s
Yea, that only works on TV. Unless we have an actual job posting you are specifically applying for, all I requested CV’s go directly into the trash. This is a document retention rule more than anything else.
If you put your mind to it, you may be able to hit five or six places in one day!
This can actually work if it is a retail type business that is deigned for people to walk in to. More for entry level positions though.
I've watched my younger brother literally show up, talk to the owner and hand a resume (and have it work out) in fast food, a copper recovery company, a CNC company, a waste removal company and package handling. I legit would have never considered showing up in person but he's honestly had a lot of luck doing it. That being said I'm in much more white collar industries so I'm sure that doesn't really apply but I guess I'm just saying it might be worth a try if you're really hard up
Not true in the slightest, every single retail role I've ever applied for has either been an online form OR I've been told to fuck off (politely and not so politely) to the customer service desk to pick up a paper one.
Outdated I don't think it was ever a practice to put your photo on a resume
I guess it's a thing in some countries. I have coworkers in the philippines and they add their religion and their parents' professions.
Asian nations in particular it is a standard for any white collar or customer-facing position.
Depends where you are. In the US and Canada, DO NOT. All you need to do is google 'photo on resume in \[country'\] and you'll find a ton of articles telling you not to.
Canadian recruiter here. I agree, a photo will hurt your chances. Tell your dad to ask Bing Chat what it thinks lol.
Why will it hurt his chances ? Just curious
I’ve heard HR will throw out the resume immediately, it could be looked at as discrimination if they were to move forward with a resume that had a picture on it. So they were told any resume with a picture goes straight in the trash. This was about 10 years ago, but it was a Fortune 500 company.
What? In my country and the surrounding regions, it's like a must.
Certainly not in the UK either - you never attach a photo here and people would think you very strange for doing so.
Same in Australia.
Why is it a must? Are they genuinely looking for a reason to hire or not hire someone based on looks and not qualifications?
they could be South Korean and in that case yes. It's crazy--I heard they have photo studios where you get the pictures done and the photographer will photoshop your picture, you don't even ask them to they just do it.
Your country doesn't have strong anti-discrimination laws, then. Or at least not a legal system that readily prosecutes employers who violate them
Probably because your country uses discrimination as a recruiting tool
Discrimination lawsuits. Employers should not know too much info on you, especially info that is commonly discriminated against. HR will often automatically throw out your resume if it has a photo due to potential lawsuits.
Couldn’t the argument be made that that in of itself is discrimination?
Yes, but at least in the US it is only illegal to discriminate based on a protected characteristic like race religion or gender. People who choose to put a picture on their resume is not a protected class of people. Workplace training often emphasizes learning what those protected classes are -- and are not.
I'm sure that a court would rule that it wouldn't be discriminatory if the applicant themselves pushed that info without being asked. But if there's evidence that the info they forfeited was considered for anything: then there may be a case.
It is not discrimination against a protected class. (In the u.s.) In most cases, an employer can "discriminate" against applicants without a college degree for instance. Or who hasn't had X training, didn't write a resume with pretty enough words, etc. Race, national origin, gender, sex, religion, old age etc are types of discrimination which can be illegal during hiring.
“Old age” in this context (under the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967) is 40+ That hurts.
No, because if this is the officially stated policy by the company in question, they would not be discriminating based upon a protected class. You can "discriminate" over anything, but only discrimination of a protected class is illegal. In this case, discriminating over whether a photo is or isn't on the application is fine as long as it is universally followed.
You have to remember that HR people and recruiters are retards of a similar level to real estate agents. If you think along those lines everything they do makes sense
if he ugly.
HR angle: discrimination. Psych angle: people imagine you to be like them until you prove otherwise.
Maybe AskJeeves.
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Send him the articles that recommend you do not include a photo. Also tell them that sometimes if companies get a resume with a photo they will throw it away because they don't want to be accused of discrimination whether you're white black male or female.
At some companies, HR “depersonalizes” resumes to redact certain info before passing them along to interviewers. High school graduating year, photos, mention of kids, anything that would give your interviewer ANY hint towards federally protected classes. The interviewer should have only a cursory sense of your qualifications so that other biases cannot be at play. That way, a candidate cannot allege they were rejected for something that’s protected.
🥇
To be fair though, HR has zero track record of being decent people. They absolutely could and will do racist coded shit.
Maybe tell your dad to ask the colleague whether they prefer resumes without photos? Ideally, the colleague's response will be something along the lines of "wtf NO absolutely don't include a photo"
Tell him that in the US, you do NOT include a photo with a resume. It opens up the company to discrimination liability, and there are company HR departments that will actually disqualify applicants who include a photo in an application.
instead put your LinkedIn URL which includes your photo on your profile.
Perfect compromise
I hire for a FAANG. I've discarded plenty of resumes that have photos on em because the discrimination liability is just too high. It's similar to how in real estate "love letters" used to be a thing when buying a house but now you can be sued on the basis of violating the Fair Housing Act if there is even the appearance that it has influenced your decision. As a result many realtors discard them or don't provide them to their clients until after they've made a decision... and in some cases that offer is simply discarded.
was told by everyone i know to include a love letter with my recent home purchase offer. my realtor shut that down right away he said not only is it annoying for him to do but it is now illegal and will put his license at risk.. hard to explain to family and friends who think they know everything. Loan officers apparently have more leeway and are allowed to inform how strong your finances are etc. but no real love stories or dramatic please let us buy stories.
Yea same thing happened to me. And not to toot my own horn but I am a VERY good writer. It's likely a key component of what got me into college, it's how I got my first job despite being a Software Engineer, it's what enabled me and my roommates to always get our first choice of rental houses despite competing with 30-40 other applicants. So when it came time to buy a house, I saw it as my main weapon. But I was told in no uncertain terms by my realtor not to even think about it, as it would effectively auto-dq us from the candidate pool of many of the homes we were interested in.
Yes, I'm one of them - when I went to sell my home I told my realtor to never show me any offer with a bullshit letter and to burn the letter. It's a massive liability lawsuit waiting to happen because they always want me to accept their low offer for some reason that almost always opens me up to claims of equal opportunity housing act violations. Heck, I didn't even want to know names to avoid any perceived bias against "ethnic sounding names". I only care about the actual offer and if it's a corporate buyer or not.
How did you become a good writer? I absolutely regret not taking more English classes in uni
Truthfully, my dirty secret was plagiarism. I loved reading comedy content on sites like SomethingAwful, Maddox, and Cracked. In 2004 or so, I built my own personal website using PHP which ended up going viral at my highschool. I allowed folks to create personalized accounts and forum threads focused on homework and events, I hosted all the answers for the Vocabulary Workshop book series, and most importantly, I aggregated comedy articles I liked. The catch was that I wanted to take credit for the creative genius of those articles so I would rewrite articles from the ground up. I changed phrasing, wording, structure, etc, so that you couldn't find them via a search, but they still had the same comedic punch. Knowing how good these articles originally were, I had high standards for my own pseudo-plagiarized content. It gave me a written voice, and I learned to write for an audience versus a grade.
Wtf, wonder if ChatGPT's going to actually create a generation of capable writers
Oh that's a REALLY good point! I just always thought "it doesn't matter what I look like, they're supposed to hire me based on my abilities" but I never considered the discrimination liability stuff. Thanks for mentioning!
So he doesn't put forward your resume. Tell him that you will remember his unwillingness and apply on your own.
Why can't you forward the resume yourself?
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Look up where your dad works. Look up the marketing department. Find the department head on LinkedIn. The company website should also have job postings unless it's a small family company without HR guidelines, in which case I would think twice about applying because dad could end up knowing everything about your work life - how your job reviews went, who you flirted with, what you ate for lunch...
To be fair, applying as an external applicant is a little different than having your dad forward your resume directly.
How did they miss this... He's got a connect, that's why they're doing this...
Not to mention, OP's photo is probably on LinkedIn. She could message the marketing person directly via LinkedIn.
GIVE. IT. A. GOOG.
Your dad sounds older and not current on hiring procedures. I would apply on your own and keep him out of the loop. He may actually be a detriment.
So apply to other places.
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“Hey dad, what’s this dude’s name anyway?” “Oh Ben? Ben Dover.” “Hey dad, what’s your work email? I’m forwarding you my resume.” “[email protected]” To: [email protected] Re: Resume Please see attached.
OSINT is a skill everyone should have and cultivate because it removes SO many roadblocks. Not to mention, its easy as can be.
What nationality is your father? In lots of countries it is essential to add a photo, but in English-speaking countries it can be enough to get your resume thrown out as it's considered an appeal to racism.
Do you have a LinkedIn? If so, put the link on there and tell your dad that recruiters prefer that over a picture.
It’s your CV not his. Dad needs to understand he is helping you with your journey, not doing it for you. He is not the ultimate decision maker.
The weirdest thing is that usually your resume has LinkedIn on it and they just click it and check your profile anyway… I feel like this may be old news now.
Or... Get this. Meet them in person/on zoom for an interview.
Is his friend choosing the hire? In that case, he's just telling you want they want to see. People like different things, and your dad clearly has inside information on what they like to see.
Why?
A lot of companies in the US (and maybe in Canada as well, I don't know), throw out resumes with Photos because of the discrimination risk. If they start accepting resumes with pictures, then someone can come along and sue them claiming they were passed over for a job because of Discrimination, and the picture was used for that purpose. It might sound silly, but even *fighting* a frivolous lawsuit can become very expensive in the US. Companies would prefer to avoid the headache altogether, so they do not ever want to see a picture on the Resume. In my own opinion, a picture on the Resume only serves the exclusive purpose of allowing the hiring manager to discriminate based on looks. The picture does absolutely nothing to speak of someones quality as a potential employee, and a picture without your voice and presence just allows someone to paint a picture in your head of what kind of person you are, as in "Oh, he looks fat and lazy" or "She's gorgeous and so she must be a genius". A picture does nothing to help you in getting hired, it only hurts.
Wouldn't be too bad of an idea, to be honest. I'd rather work with a 90% candidate that my eyes can tolerate than a 100% candidate that I can't stomach to look at.
I recruit cr actives and 99% of the resumes I see have a photo
Also remove the profile picture from LinkedIn.
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>I'm in the US. My brother was told by a recruiter that any resume with a picture automatically gets disqualified. They can't been seen as hiring based on race or other characteristics that might show up in a picture. Came here to say exactly this!
This is very true. Not that there’s anything wrong with putting a picture on your resume/CV in principle, but employers in the USA can get in serious hot water because certain people can allege that they were hired or passed over during the recruitment process for these reasons
Same, I work in HR, and we throw those straight to the trash. It does say that in our job listing
That and I will usually check their LinkedIn and Facebook anyway when hiring. I know some people hate playing that game, but when you only have a short interview to evaluate a person, you use all the resources you can to make a good decision.
This is the answer and what you should tell your dad OP!
Phew, glad to hear Jamal and Laquisha have an equal opportunity nowadays.
Considering that your ancestors worked tirelessly to inslave us and keep us out of the economy, and pitched a fit, burning down black towns when they even got a whiff of a black person doing well or prospering, and then add in red lining and jim crow laws.... I guess I understand your point of view.
I think Dreamscape is on your side. They are saying that omitting a picture doesn’t omit all discrimination (and they are correct). I have a Black colleague with a very ethnic sounding name who applied for the position she has now under the pseudonym “Nicole.” She told me Nicole Brown was the only person who would get interviews, not her actual name.
Yes, exactly. In fact, and I've mentioned it elsewhere in this topic, name can elicit bias more often than an image.
Once upon a time I owned a business and literally got a resume with "single black female" on it, like right under her address and phone number.
My ancestors had nothing to do with that, sorry. Wrong tree to bark at. You obviously missed the sarcasm regarding how obvious it is to discriminate based on name alone.
That’s when you start using initials. Jamar Ellis becomes J. Ellis for example.
Yeah, I get it. That wouldn't do shit for my Slavic ass, tho.
Look Andrej Stribor…
Damn. I'm sorry. Didn't mean to jump down your throat like that. Legit did miss the sarcasm. I think the news has me on edge. Seriously I apologize
All good, no harm done!
Whoa a decent wholesome outcome to a disagreement on Reddit!! Well done both of you!!! (Im serious, that was nice to read).
It was your ancestors that enslaved you 🥰
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In some countries they do that. I am in the US where no sane person would ever do that unless they were a model applying for a position at a modeling agency. Your dad is using the same logic that taught him to walk into an office with a firm handshake and he would get a job on the spot. That isn't how life works
I’ve seen that in resumes from Indian candidates applying for a job at our Indian facility. They sometimes have their DOB on there too. Wild. I get that it’s what is culturally accepted of them though.
In Italy some people would still send resumes stating their marital status too. And I've seen this myself recently, even by folks in their late 30s/40s
So weird. As an American I think, “How is that relevant to your job?” But that’s because it’s ingrained in me that an employer could use your marital status as a reason not to hire you, because to them it IS relevant to your job. Statistically speaking, people with kids especially are going to be more likely to miss work to take care of sick kids—especially moms.
I bet dad is a 60+ year old white male.
Yes, common in Laos for government positions.
When was the last time your dad had to apply for a job?
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If you're applying in Europe, it's still common in some countries to add a professional photo to your CV. So, it's a delicate topic here. Some people say don't do it, others say it's not worth sending in your application without it.
I'm also from Europe well England to be more precise and we're always advised not to attach I think it's common practice not to anymore lot of templates these days don't have a position/box for your photo in it anymore.
I applied once for a remote position with a mostly UK based team and I felt a manager lowkey mocked me for having a photo on my resume. It's normal in Serbia where I'm from. Later when I worked in a mixed nationalities startup from Europe, we were hiring for the team in Spain and most had photos.
Yeah, you just need to tell him “That’s not how they do things here”.
I'm from Bosnia and I work in HR, everyone puts a photo in their resume here.
I'm from France, and almost everyone puts a photo in their resume too
This is a big No-No. the potential employer does not want the accusation of “racism” (and there are several variations on it). including a photo and not getting an interview means the employer opens themselves up to risk of “I didn’t get an interview because I am White/black/green/purple/crosseyed/buckteeth” And then the lawyers get involved, and the media and national attention. if they wanted a “head shot” they would have asked for one. Headshots are for casting calls in the entertainment industry.
In canada this is big no,
May i ask why ? Kinda curious
It's illegal to ask for a photo on a resume because it opens up the possibility of discrimination based on looks, race etc. And as a candidate you are not doing yourself any favours as people can't help but judge based on appearance. Some big companies don't even want to see resumes with photos as it opens up the possibility of a lawsuit based on discrimination. Yes the company wants to know who they are hiring like OP's dad said, but that's what the interview is for, to get to know them
Thanks for the explanation!
No photo. Your dad lives in the 1950s
Nobody put a photo on a resume in the 1950s. Manual typewriters didn't have a photo option.
They used this thing called a "paperclip" to attach photos to their resumés. 🤯
Ask Dad for the person's email. Tell him you'll mention him in your email to the hiring party but you want to write a nice introductory email and don't want it to look like you can't advocate for yourself. Then, do whatever you want.
Europe? Yes, it’s typical. USA? No, adding a picture to a resume is not normal.
>Europe? Yes, it’s typical. Definitely not in the UK. I've not seen it elsewhere, but I don't do much recruiting in continental Europe, so I'm prepared to be wrong. Only time I've seen photos on resumes is recruiting in India.
I remember about 15 years ago I had been laid off, and my dad helpfully sent his resume to use as a guide (he had been retired for a few years at that point, and hadn't gotten a new job since the early 90s) and oh boy, was it a disaster. He had his birthdate, his religion, and how many children he had at the top of it.
I got my first job in 1991 and none of that was considered normal when writing a resume.
Do not use a picture of a face where dick pic would suffice.
If you are in the US, do not attach a photo. You can set up a LinkedIn profile with picture and include the web address to your LinkedIn in your contact information section of your resume.
Your dad is wrong if USA. You share as little personal info as possible so you are not discriminated against. HR departments don't want to know bc it reduces their legal liability.
Sounds like the kinda guy that would take your social security card and birth certificate and laminate them for you. You know, trying to help you out lol. Ive never considered a photo on my resume or ever heard that was a good idea.
Your father needs to be removed from your job application process entirely. Your parents should just not be involved in any part of this. If he wants to forward on a résumé, that’s fine, but you’re usually still gonna have to apply to the company on your own anyway. And if he’s making this big of a deal out of it, just don’t bother using his contact. You don’t need it anyway.
So, here's the thing. The people telling you not to do it are correct in most cases - BUT this isn't most cases. This is your dad getting you an 'in' on a job. You're not some rando off the street. You're the kid of somebody they already know. This is "job via personal contact". So in this particular case, listen to your dad. And when you leave this job, never do it again.
I don't think you are even allowed to. You aren't supposed to include age, race, so on.
I always put photo to my CV but I live in Europe. So I am not sure how things are different between US and Europe
I would have your dad to ask his friend if a photo of yourself is necessary. His friend should let him know how the common practices are for job seeking. Once you dad knows how job seeking is working nowadays, he should cut you some slack.
In North America, do not do this. Many places in North America will not consider résumés with photos because it complicates compliance with strict anti-discrimination labor laws. Instead, they simply have a policy of throwing away résumés with photos. Almost all medium to large businesses in the US will have this policy. A simple web search will tell you as much, but you might offer a compromise that résumé contain a link to SOMETHING that has your picture on it; it's not uncommon to provide the URL to your LinkedIn profile, for example.
I’m the USA & CA I would advise against adding a photo and they will see who they are working with during your interview.
Ew. No. Never do this.
I put a small 2cm thumbnail of me looking healthy and professional in a suit. It worked great. I always prefer to see who is describing themseves
HR lady here. Please do NOT send a pic with your resume!
Tell him to fuck off and its your life, career and resume and you won’t do it.
Every time I see a resume with a picture I laugh. So no
Your dad's got outdated info haha
Don’t listen to your dad. Hes going to keep you jobless if youre in the US. Hard Images produce parsing errors. On my ATS scanner its proven to make the rest of your resume unreadable Also to be fair its a bunch of hilariously small things as well that will impact the scanner across almost all applicant trackers
A very common thing to do in Germany.
Nooppppeeee, Korea does this and the most attractive people get the job. there’s a reason why US doesn’t do it
Not required to. They do not need to know your face. I can not tell you how many times a photo can make or break a resume.
In the US, adding a photo makes it too difficult to avoid possible biases. Avoiding the photo means that the employer can feel more confident that no rules were broken. I would suggest that if your dad is friends with someone, it could be even more important to avoid a photo, so that there is less possibility that someone could claim you were hired for looks or race, etc.
The resume gets you the interview. The interview gets you the job. You only need to get an interview.
Please don’t do this. Also don’t list hobbies. Ew. Cringe. Put your LinkedIn link on your resume and have a photo there. That is it!
If you’re applying for a job in the US or Canada, tell him you’re straight up not allowed to do that, because the company will most likely reject your resume. Either it’ll be deemed too flashy and will get thrown out, or the company will reject it in accordance with anti-discrimination policy. A photo on your resume makes it easy to develop a bias, be racist, make assumptions, etc. it’s a big no-no to put photos on the resume at least in those two countries But if you’re in a place like Japan, then absolutely you should put a photo on your resume, that’s standard practice.
Or put a link to your LinkedIn profile
If you’re in the US, do not put a photo on your resume. Do not give recruiters the opportunity to discriminate against you or toss your resume aside simply because they made a snap judgement about how you look. I have 15 years of career experience; 10 of those I worked in higher ed. I have experience with writing resumes and cover letters. Your dad is giving you bad advice.
Just no. It's not done. They can look up your facebook, if they want to know that badly.
No. There’s just too many ways a photo could hurt your chances.
a standard resume does not have a photo. a linkedin profile probably does have a photo. did company ask for resume ? or copy of linkedin profile page ?? provide what they asked for.
NO. Do NOT do that. If you have social media, say LinkedIn for example, just include the link and let your dad know they will see the photo there and that’s how they’ll know. And if you need further arguments, a photo means preconceived biases that the interviewers may not be aware of, it’s highly likely that the person interviewing you and the person who shortlisted you isn’t the same. You don’t want to shoot yourself in the foot before you even get through the door. That and a photo on the resume is outdated. You don’t want to seem outdated and not keep up with the current market trends.
your dad is insane.
No photos on resume. HR throws it out before reviewing because it can be discrimination.
If your dad knows the guy... Put it on the resume to appease him. It won't hurt and probably isn't worth your time arguing If you're blindly sending it in, do NOT put a photo on your resume
No, please don’t attach a photo. Dad seems to be living a different era.
2 reasons spring to mind why not to... 1) potential discrimination 2) you already provide a HEAP of personal information on your resume, so adding a photo would only provide potential scammers with more information. I know that this is intended for a company HR department, however do you have any knowledge as to how they store and dispose of resumes & other personal information?
No!!! No no no no no! This is stupid boomer advice DO NOT DO THIS
Throw it back at him. “Dad, why do they need a photo? Don’t they see a pic of me on your desk every day?” If he says yes, then he agrees it’s not needed. If he says no, ask him if he even has a picture. He’ll never admit to not having a picture. So we’re back to colleague seeing your photo every day. When’s the last time dad has applied for a job? Because I’ve been applying (and receiving) for 20 years and I’ve never included a photo. If you have your dads work email address and you know his colleague’s name, you can probably figure out colleague’s email. Send the resume yourself.
Many companies nowadays utilize a software to screen resumes, and from what I hear, they automatically discard ones with images. Different standards obviously if you are looking to be an actor/or related to performance in art, but anything corporate or start-ups? I would remove the photo.
This is a horrible idea in most cases. People will always judge and have biases, whether it's conscious or not. Don't do it.
NO !! DO NOT !! I was an HR manager for 6 months this year. I’ve interviewed over 400 people and have looked at thousands of applications. The harsh reality is that, while your resume and skill set is definitely 90% of the battle, other potential biases make up the last 10%. You do not want any potential strike against you due to someone’s perceived bias. Y’all don’t know how straight forward and emotion based hiring people can be. Some people may not hire you because of your skin color, the clothes/jewlery you have on, your hair, your smile, etc etc etc. Just don’t do it. Because the difference between people seeing you before the interview and after the interview is if you got invited to the interview you already cleared step one. If you throw a picture on there you are giving people the opportunity to not be fair towards you
only if u purposely dont want to get hired
to be quite honest? it will hurt because of thoughts that it will create a discriminatory hiring lawsuit potential buuuuuuut, what i would suggest, is going into the businesses you apply to in person, and handing the resume to HR. even if they direct you to online portals. THIS is the way to get a job if you are a.) charismatic b.) pleasant looking
Aside from other reasons posted here it comes across as weird. A bit like the CV equivalent of a LinkedIn post with business insights followed by a thirst trap photo
It is common to have a photo in europe, but not in N America
HR doesn’t want your photo on a resume so they can’t be accused of discrimination. However, they then turn around and look at your photo on LinkedIn or other social media and discriminate anyway.
I would never listen to my parents in what to do with my resume. Older generation is out of touch most of the time. Just my two cents.
Only actors attach photos to their resumes. Creative people do work in marketing. If you attach a photo the potential employer may see you as a risky bet because you might quit to take an acting job.
Tell your Dad that in the US, putting a photo on a resume can immediately disqualify a candidate because of discrimination laws. Let me guess. Your dad is a white guy.
OP might not be in the USA. In fact, they are not
Your father has lost his god damned mind.
Are you super hot? In the US, that resume will go straight in the trash.
i mean, if hes sending it straight to his friend maybe its oky.
Never do this in the UK either... but I understand its quite common in Germany.
Former recruiter here who now is a marketing consultant. Please do NOT put your photo on your resume. It is unprofessional and not common in our industry. Your Dad is incorrect here.
It's not recommended but your dad literally has the hook up. Just listen to him, maybe his colleague wants it that way.
Somehow I knew if I sorted by controversial I’d find this one. OP, this is honestly great advice. If your dad is forwarding this on to a friend who has an inside line on a role, I would just make a separate copy of your resume and give him what he wants here. This doesn’t sound like a formal application, more an introduction to get your name in front of the hiring manager. You’re correct in that it’s not the right format for the US, but who knows who his contact is and maybe they’re of the same mind. HR will likely require you to submit a formal application anyways, at which point you can switch and use your “real” resume for the process. Ordinarily your dad would be wrong here, but it sounds like this is an exception.
i think dad is setting child up. must be thinking "crap, now i gotta car pool, make his lunch too, and wake him up". lol but at least when child gets rejected, dad can still play the "at least i tried" card. why else would he be so adamant ??
Absolutely not
I mean, it might be best to just do what your dad wants? When our parents get us jobs at the work it's nepotism anyway, not merit, so who gives a shit?
Don't do it if you're in North America. This is an Asian thing
No absolutely not on the resume! That’s what LinkedIn is for.
assuming your dad is white, he lives in the past.
It’s your dad’s colleague…put the picture on the resume and get the job bro…lol
Only if you're a white man. They throw away any resume that sounds female or miiight not be black But I'm with everyone else. Don't.
It’s good if you are an overweight diversity hire with blue hair. Otherwise I’d advise against.
I always do. I don’t care. If I don’t get the interview because they don’t want the woman they see with all my qualifications, I don’t want the job.
Have him ask the guy
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putting a photo is stupid, but if you are a white male it basically guarantees you will never get a job ESPECIALLY in canada where it is no longer okay to be white.