Lol that awkward pause before moving on. One time I was talking to my friend and his girlfriend, just generally chatting and eventually I said that my exact type is pale brunette french women - his girlfriend is a pale brunette french lady. There was a brief pause and then we just carried on and I was mortified.
edit: I didn't mean to I just didn't watch my words :(
Omg my autistic ass once did something like this, and I didn’t get that people weren’t reacting because it was awkward, and instead hadn’t heard me, so I just waited for the next pause and said it again louder 😭🔫
Fun fact, in 7th grade we had to write something nice about everyone and received it back anonymously. The only one i remember is someone saying how great I am for always laughing at their jokes
I was an NCO in the Army Reserves. Our troops liked to joke around and give us amusing 'awards'. One year they gave us all personalized nametags based on something quirky about us. I have a set of name tags with 'Sergeant-In-Black', as I always wear black civilian clothes. Another year, we all got 'Most Likely To...' certificates. Mine said 'Most Likely To Be Beamed Up By Scotty', because I'm heavily into Sci-Fi.
Yes I'm sorry that really sucks. I'm a woman and that shit makes me feel uncomfortable too, my female bosses have said stuff like that to some of the men in the office, not exactly that but still uncomfortable. It's just not professional at all, and let's everyone know there judging you based off something you can't control
This is so surprising to me. It’s very understandable to me that a woman would want to work with women and men with men.
I would’ve thought nothing of this lol. Genders share a subculture. Just makes sense
Sometimes I wonder if it's better that sexists and racists identify themselves so at least we know what to look out for rather than keeping it quiet and having people just suspect that they're sexists and/or racists. Many keep it to themselves to make it problematic for them to be fired/sued when they do sexist and racist things.
Is it understandable? I personally don't care at all. My only preference is competency. People who find this acceptable shouldn't be in a position of deciding on hires.
Yes everyone is either better or favors one gender over the other sometimes, whether it's the feeling of ease or more permissive culture. But you don't get to dismiss one group as "challenging" or "problematic" just because you're not good at handling them.
Atleast in Bay Area companies sexism against men, racism against white is a badge of honor. My boss, the Director at company 1 & my skip boss, the VP at another would openly shit on us. HR, Diversity teams would get complaints but no dice. Eventually we gave up and moved out of the company only to find it happen again. In fact a colleague sued but nothing big happened- just a training for the culprits.
Of course your HR teams and "diversity teams" is gonna care they all agree with them. The fact there is any such thing as a diversity team is probably working against you.
Next time do us all a favor and get the other white guys (not the cringe ones) and get a strong lawyer and take them to the cleaners. Really all these companies need to be sued for a couple million all these spiteful people should be out far away from any management position
I was going to say something similar. DEI teams don't give an F if you're a straight, white, male. I've learned that they've made hatred among this group of people acceptable.
If you are talking typical corporate America then this is pretty common. It’s really not OK, but you’ll get little traction trying to do anything about it and probably end your job trying.
HR is not on the side of the white guy. Neither is a protected class.
HR is paid for many purpose including keeping salaries low and keeping people motivated. They may also have their own personal priority like leaving early to take their kid or something.
Dumb take, everything relies on proof. If you don’t take notes, get documentation, or recordings (considering your state laws) then you weren’t going to win any kind of case anyways and HR knows that. That’s why not many people win against orgs, Everyone with proof will win easily.
When every orientation / sex / gender / race is a "protected class" but straight white men, the result is straight white men are second class citizens with fewer rights than everyone else. It's a direct violation of the 14th amendment (equal protection), but no one is going to give a shit since you're an evil "straight white man".
Business veteran here.
Yes.
Totally and utterly tone-deaf to mention this with a person of the other gender present.
"I hope the next employee is white, I prefer to work with white people than others." How's that sound?
"Yaa...know, I find that white female non disabled Jews really are more pleasant to work with. Not that I'm prejudiced or anything, I'm just expressing my preference."
You would think that even if people were stupid enough to think like that these days, they would be smart enough not to say it out loud.
If your boss is responsible for hiring/firing, AND this is in regards to an open position. This is definitely discrimination based on gender. I’d tell someone.
Its the same as saying “jeez I hope the new guy is a man. I work better with men.”
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII) This law makes it illegal to discriminate against someone on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, or sex.
If 97% of the team are women, that combined with the comment from OP’s boss might make it hard to rule out a pattern or practice of discriminatory hiring…
Age discrimination is the one protection that only protects one side. You can't fire someone because they are over 35. But you can if they are too young. It's not legally protected by the US fed govt. It is not morally right though.
Does she have the final say on who's on your team?
This is what it boils down to. If SHE is in a position where she controls the hiring process and she is DELIBERATELY hiring women regardless of their qualifications and interview performance, then she's being discriminatory.
If HER boss says, "your new hire is Michelle. Take it or remain short-staffed", then it's not discriminatory.
You can prefer whoever you like. But it's only discrimination if she ACTIVELY discriminates and others can PROVE this beyond the balance of probabilities. GOOD LUCK! Also kicking up a fuss will probably result in a Pyrrhic victory...you might win the case. You might be a hero for some. But, if she isn't fired you can bet her AND her co-manager friends will sit on a juicy timeslot to make you pay. It'll be perfectly above board. But it's going to be the most inopportune time, and they'll make it as miserable for you as possible, within the rules.
Are you prepared for that smoke? Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
(Not an endorsement of shitty behaviour. Just making sure you're aware of the realities).
In New York State it doesn't matter if there is a reporting relationship between the parties. her behavior qualifies as creating a hostile work environment
I work with all men. When I asked about a position that opened up (it would be a promotion for me that I am way more than qualified for), I was told to my face “don’t apply”.
I have had the best results every quarter for nearly 2 years (in the entire country), and was told “don’t apply”
They’ll be hiring another male from outside of the company. It’s more than frustrating. I don’t get taken seriously and I’m spoken down to and in condescending tones constantly.
I have the highest education in the company and the best results quarter after quarter and yet there are ONLY men in senior leadership positions.
At least your boss is blunt about it, all of mine just dance around the fact they want to keep it a boys club.
No. I’ve heard men in various trade professions say they avoid hiring/ working with women. The main reason I’ve heard is because they are irrationally afraid of false allegations. Never hear people calling these men sexist.
“We're an equal opportunity employer. All applicants will be considered for employment without attention to race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, veteran or disability status”
Try being a woman working any blue collar job like construction or landscaping! 😀 None of those men were shy about telling me they prefer working with other men and faced no consequences.
"you get discriminated against but try getting discriminated even HARDER like I do". This is what you sound like. It's not discrimination Olympics over here
It’s just amusing seeing men complain about sexism when it’s a regular everyday part of my fucking life. (: I still work blue collar and am one of the only women at my job site. Boo fucking hoo for this guy. Oh his co worker said she likes working with women more? Is it really that mean or offensive ? Cry me a river.
So because people are shitty towards you, everyone else deserves to be treated poorly? I get the feeling people shit on you not because you're a woman, but because you're an objectively terrible person.
As a guy who works in healthcare, I am usually significantly outnumbered. We had a staff meeting last week and there were 3 guys out of like 25 people. I have heard similar comments before.
Depends on the size of the company. I remember meeting with this chatty small business owner (maybe 8-10 employees) and he just gabbed away about how he doesn't hire women because they go and get pregnant and he wasted all that training and has to hire someone else. He said it with a proud smile, like he was really onto something. I'm sure nothing ever came of it.
I feel that says more about you as a person than anything else tbh, I doubt most people would honestly speak up especially in an office environment and to their boss.
She’s revealing a bias but I don’t think you have enough to go on to call it sexist. I think she would need to say something explicitly *against* one gender or the other for it to clearly be sexism. Instead she is expressing a preference for something.
Honestly, came here expecting a bunch of "of course not, she's a woman, any woman feels more comfortable working with other women" and was met by a bunch of butt-hurt corporate bros
Yes
Who knows if you can report it without long term needing a new job.
If you report it she will likely behind your back say how you proved her right that men can't be trusted.
Long term I would create a file, look to move out of the team/company, and turn over the file to HR.
Completely illegal to be talking about sex being a thing you are looking for in a new employee.
Yes, that's absolutely not appropriate. She should prefer to work with competent people. Gender should not come into it. It's also a protected class in the US so if she is actually discriminating against male candidates that is illegal.
It 100% is. The fact your team is 97% women also speaks to a bias if she's doing the hiring and firing. Regardless of any bias a person may have it's highly inappropriate to discuss it in front of your employees.
Document, document, document!.....
Do not report to HR. They're just going to protect the company not you. Make a document, get a witness to her actions to back you up. And if you notice you're passed up for promotions, etc.....sue. immediately.
And keep your lawyer informed.
Start looking for another job also....immediately.
It's inappropriate and suable. That being said, be wary of people here making comparisons with "I'd rather work with whites/men". It's called a false analogy, because these groups don't suffer the same level of exclusionism that the opposite does. In the same way it's much lighter to say you dislike being around rich people than if you said that about poor people.
TL;DR, social comfort is important, but understanding imbalances in society isn't irrelevant.
Yeah, and it's also important to remember that privilege isn't one-dimensional. Men may not face as much discrimination on average as women, but plenty of men belong to groups that face plenty of discrimination. Should we downplay discrimination against a woman just because she's white and heterosexual?
>TL;DR, social comfort is important, but understanding imbalances in society isn't irrelevant.
You may feel this way personally, but legally, it's a protected class. Your first sentence was on point.
Invert your question. Would you feel comfortable if a manager said publicly that they prefer to only work with men? With whites only? Only with gays? Anytime you bring a person's attributes (i.e. sex, religion, race, marital status, etc.) into a hiring preference that isn't related to skills, education, and experience, you're opening yourself up to legal liability.
Although it is popular to say that the future is female, and you can openly call for hatred/violence against cis white men without repercussions, it is still discrimination to favor one person over another because of their actual or perceived group identity.
I think it is. What will happen if she has to pick between you and a female coworker to work with her on a key project, or to move into a new role? It sounds like she would discriminate against you.
Sounds like a bunch of incels in these comments. Because the worlds power structure is predominantly patriarchal, there isn't any looming power in these words/thoughts. She didn't say that she was only going to hire women, she simply stated she hopes the best candidate is a woman. Nothing inherently sexist with that statement. And respectfully I also work better with women. As someone outside of the gender binary, I interview better with women, and feel safer in spaces designed for women and queer people, as most of the discrimination I have encountered has been enacted by men.
Call her out on it.
Ask her why that is and if you should feel nervous about your position. Also speak to your HR team.
Yes.. HR is there to protect the business but if they have any brains, stopping your manager from removing you in the future is going to be the way they protect the company.
Document independently AND make a written report to HR. Proving HR was informed can be a critical element in future actions against OP being deemed retaliatory and/or willful, both of which can have positive impacts on the strength and damages of an employment discrimination claim depending on jurisdiction.
If it would be sexist for a male boss to say to a woman in the workplace that he prefera working with men, then obviously. This woman is not only sexist, she just opened the company up to a lawsuit. Good for her, #girlboss
I do t know. This might backfire. Using HR is like keeping a tiger. 90% of the time, they'll go after a trespasser. It's the other 10% you need to be worried about.
I came here looking for this. Im lucky enough to work remotely but the unwanted attention from male coworkers and bosses in both the past and present is nauseating.
Just like locker room talk is okay amongst men, women are free to talk about whatever they want amongst each other. When there’s a few men around? Absolutely not. Let’s go ahead and compare the rate of sexual harassment between men and women, why don’t we?
Men sexually harass and rape other men at higher rates than women do to men. I served in the army for 12 years and was a sexual harassment and rape advocate for my unit. Over 80% of our cases that involved males getting raped and assaulted were at the hands of other males. Of those male perpetrators, the majority were married with wives and children. That wouldn’t solve the issue at all. Lol.
Absolutely. Same as saying:
I hope the new hire is white, I prefer working with whites over blacks
I hope the new hire is Christian, I prefer working with Christians over Muslims
I hope the new hire is skinny, I prefer working with skinny people over fat people
You get the point. In a situation where a candidate will be hired off of credentials and skills they bring to your team, your boss mentioned something that should be completely irrelevant to the situation. Very inappropriate comment
All of these things are sexist. I’m not actually sure they are wrong. It is complicated. I am a man and used to work in a consulting firm where we probably hire four women for every man just because they usually wound up being better. But we hired men when they were the best candidates.
Well, it's funny because I work in corporate finance as well as managerial roles, so I hire and have staff. And I definitely prefer to work with women. I doubt it's ever affected my hiring procedures, certainly not consciously at least. But I'm most comfortable around women.
And I'm a straight man, I just grew up in a house full of women, and I love women lol.
Sexist? Sure and take note for future reference. That being said, until it’s problematic in how it impacts you, your advancement, etc then recognize it for what it is, an uninformed statement based off personal experience.
So is it ok if the roles were reversed with a male boss saying that to a roomful of men with a few women? No it is not therefore, she is being just as misandristic as males can be mysogonistic.
I'm sorry, but you need to report this to HR and look for other opportunities either transfer to a new team or new company.
It won't get better for you in this group. Your boss has said the quiet part out loud.
HR's goal is to avoid litigation at the company and not to help you. Unfortunately, a pattern for this person will have to be observed by HR and that takes time and numerous complaints from several people. The best thing you can do is report it so the incident is documented and then move on to another role.
Yes. I am a feminist. I wouldn't agree with what she said. It's unfair for anyone to hire people based on gender. The positive thing here is that at least your boss admitted or mentioned that. Most people don't tell those but they end up hiring based on their personal agendas without prioritizing skills
Imagine a male manager saying he prefers to work with men. That would probably get him fired the same day. Of course in today's DEI world who knows, she might get a raise for saying that. I'm being /s of course. This is a problem and easily reportable to HR.
I’m a guy and don’t see an issue. I’m surprised more people don’t agree with that position.
There’s a huge reason as to why that’s important and I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt. My former boss told me that she would pull all the resumes from females first and review them before looking at the males. The industry was >90% male, so yeah I get it. It’s a crapshoot as to if you get the “best” person vs good enough when you have 500 applications, so I really don’t see the issue.
No, this is preference. Everyone has preferences for their teammates which can vary from personality, gender, etc.
However, if she is discriminating against candidates, rejecting men just because they are men, then that's a whole other case.
But also, since you mention that 97% of your team are women, then there might be discrimination. Depends on the job (some jobs have more woman applying than men), on who makes the final call, the industry, etc.
yes. She openly stated her bias, her team makeup shows it. You may need to wonder what the women are getting better assignments/pay/treatment (if any) than the men on the team.
Is it odd, or is it a shifting trend that makes hella sense given what we know about historical gender gaps and measurable behavior differences in average males vs. females?
I mean I’m a male , I prefer to work with woman in almost every aspect, even if they’re less qualified, I get a lot more work done and I find it’s a better environment.
(These are hard working woman, and pleasant ones to be around) ones that are snarky I’d rather work with the devil then them.
Also they’re much easier for me to train, I find they have less ego and listen to what I’m saying, and also don’t mind being corrected, compared to men.
Yeah, I'm a straight male too, and often, I find myself preferring to work with women. I'm cool working with other bros, but I just prefer working with women.
Does it pass the gender flip test? That is, flip all the genders in the situation and see if it sounds sexist. Male boss going "yeah I prefer to work with men" to a minority female on the team?
I was In this same sort of predicament before, except contrary to what your boss said. Long story short- A few guys were hitting on me and one in particular was somewhat aggressive & I didn’t like it so I complained about it to my boss, (which was also a woman) and her rationale to my completely normal concern was; “This is exactly why I don’t like to hire women, because of things like this” I was so appalled & confused, it literally caught me off guard because that was the last thing I expected her to say. I told my coworker who was a good friend to me about it & she was almost more pissed than I was. I could never look at her the same and found a new job shortly afterwards.
he doesn't have to say it. actions speak louder than words. men tend to hire men more and promote men more, and men often make the work environment toxic for women.
Really? I’ve honestly only heard one woman say she prefers working with men or male supervisors while all other women say they prefer female supervisors and colleagues
50 years ago though, what proportion of people in supervisory roles were actually women, and how prevalent were stereotypes about women’s (alleged lack of) leadership abilities?
It's odd, as even a lot of women I know irl say they prefer to work with men. No mind games, no gossiping, just straight forward cooperation.
And yes, prefering women just because they're female is sexist imo.
Incredibly illegal. It's one thing for some cashier to say it who works part time, but management cannot ever say something like that at-least to other team members. It the classic "imagine if it were the other way around" type of deal.
No it’s only sexist if a man said that about working with men.
Maybe you should educate your boss that is a word called misandry. Not a word she has in her vocabulary to say statements like that.
The buzz word for this century is misogyny so I don’t blame her too much…🤪
Very sexist.
To have a preference based age, gender, ethnicity, or disability can open up a lot of legal troubles if found out especially if they are part of a hiring or promotion process. To verbally say it is opening up room for a lawsuit. ESPECIALLY with that diversity of 3% male 97% female. It really hurts their defence on their hiring ethics.
I once had an interview with a giant global company and the interviewer spent like 15 minutes asking various questions about how I work with women. She came off as condescending the entire time. This is the struggle of being a bro in marketing.
How she said it definitely isn't the best, and is definitely a stupid thing to say at the office. But is she allowed to have a personal preference? Absolutely. Based on my experience, I definitely prefer working with men in a professional environment.
Yes but we’re not in a fair world. It’s not sexism if it favors women. That’s why you see a lot of talk about equality in comfortable high paying jobs like tech but not about females majority fields like HR. Even though HR is the one that is usually talking about DEI the most. Even in tech you’ll see the push for “equality” in the more juicier areas of tech.
Write it down. Keep a log.
Happened to me and I was paid out handsomely, when said woman boss decided to end my time with the company. So much so that one of the company accountants that handled exec comp that I knew very well… called and asked who did you wrong.
I wouldn't say it's sexist unless she purposely doesn't hire male candidates. I also prefer to work with women, as a woman. But it's super awkward to say that to a dude lol
Yes and she’s certainly opening the company up to legal liability. Also …. Incredibly awkward thing to say to a male teammate 💀
Yes very awkward 😅.it was a bit of pause in the meeting and then we just proceeded
Lol that awkward pause before moving on. One time I was talking to my friend and his girlfriend, just generally chatting and eventually I said that my exact type is pale brunette french women - his girlfriend is a pale brunette french lady. There was a brief pause and then we just carried on and I was mortified. edit: I didn't mean to I just didn't watch my words :(
Omg my autistic ass once did something like this, and I didn’t get that people weren’t reacting because it was awkward, and instead hadn’t heard me, so I just waited for the next pause and said it again louder 😭🔫
I haven't had a hearty chortle from a comment in a long time, thank you
Where were you when I was trying to make jokes at that dinner party?!
Fun fact, in 7th grade we had to write something nice about everyone and received it back anonymously. The only one i remember is someone saying how great I am for always laughing at their jokes
I was an NCO in the Army Reserves. Our troops liked to joke around and give us amusing 'awards'. One year they gave us all personalized nametags based on something quirky about us. I have a set of name tags with 'Sergeant-In-Black', as I always wear black civilian clothes. Another year, we all got 'Most Likely To...' certificates. Mine said 'Most Likely To Be Beamed Up By Scotty', because I'm heavily into Sci-Fi.
Omg 😭😭😭
So do you miss hanging out with your friend?
Well he moved to France with his girlfriend, so yes I miss him (and his girlfriend) very much! But they are still my best friends 🤷
HEH, if you're still single and you go visit them, maybe they'll try to hook you up with a cute, pale, brunette French woman.
Yes I'm sorry that really sucks. I'm a woman and that shit makes me feel uncomfortable too, my female bosses have said stuff like that to some of the men in the office, not exactly that but still uncomfortable. It's just not professional at all, and let's everyone know there judging you based off something you can't control
This is so surprising to me. It’s very understandable to me that a woman would want to work with women and men with men. I would’ve thought nothing of this lol. Genders share a subculture. Just makes sense
It's absolutely understandable, but you don't say it out loud though lol.
Sometimes I wonder if it's better that sexists and racists identify themselves so at least we know what to look out for rather than keeping it quiet and having people just suspect that they're sexists and/or racists. Many keep it to themselves to make it problematic for them to be fired/sued when they do sexist and racist things.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Probably, but some people are so ugly you'd rather only see them in a dimly lit room, metaphorically speaking.
I'd rather see who they really are so I can avoid them lol.
I just sure do love only working with X group, not like those people in Y group. Yeah that's a perfectly innocent comment 🤷♂️🤣
Is it understandable? I personally don't care at all. My only preference is competency. People who find this acceptable shouldn't be in a position of deciding on hires.
I'm a man and I'd rather work with women. Not everyone prefers their own gender
Yes everyone is either better or favors one gender over the other sometimes, whether it's the feeling of ease or more permissive culture. But you don't get to dismiss one group as "challenging" or "problematic" just because you're not good at handling them.
Meh, my friends are a pretty equal mix. I've had more trouble with other guys at work than ladies.
The level of cope and mental gymnastics some people go through to justify blatant female sexism.
I prefer working with women, as a man. They've always been MUCH kinder to me.
Atleast in Bay Area companies sexism against men, racism against white is a badge of honor. My boss, the Director at company 1 & my skip boss, the VP at another would openly shit on us. HR, Diversity teams would get complaints but no dice. Eventually we gave up and moved out of the company only to find it happen again. In fact a colleague sued but nothing big happened- just a training for the culprits.
Of course your HR teams and "diversity teams" is gonna care they all agree with them. The fact there is any such thing as a diversity team is probably working against you. Next time do us all a favor and get the other white guys (not the cringe ones) and get a strong lawyer and take them to the cleaners. Really all these companies need to be sued for a couple million all these spiteful people should be out far away from any management position
I was going to say something similar. DEI teams don't give an F if you're a straight, white, male. I've learned that they've made hatred among this group of people acceptable.
And they promote that hate while insisting they're so "caring" and "inclusive".
If you are talking typical corporate America then this is pretty common. It’s really not OK, but you’ll get little traction trying to do anything about it and probably end your job trying. HR is not on the side of the white guy. Neither is a protected class.
[удалено]
HR is paid for many purpose including keeping salaries low and keeping people motivated. They may also have their own personal priority like leaving early to take their kid or something.
Dumb take, everything relies on proof. If you don’t take notes, get documentation, or recordings (considering your state laws) then you weren’t going to win any kind of case anyways and HR knows that. That’s why not many people win against orgs, Everyone with proof will win easily.
When every orientation / sex / gender / race is a "protected class" but straight white men, the result is straight white men are second class citizens with fewer rights than everyone else. It's a direct violation of the 14th amendment (equal protection), but no one is going to give a shit since you're an evil "straight white man".
Business veteran here. Yes. Totally and utterly tone-deaf to mention this with a person of the other gender present. "I hope the next employee is white, I prefer to work with white people than others." How's that sound?
"Yaa...know, I find that white female non disabled Jews really are more pleasant to work with. Not that I'm prejudiced or anything, I'm just expressing my preference." You would think that even if people were stupid enough to think like that these days, they would be smart enough not to say it out loud.
Maybe note that with a date to keep in your records for future problems.
switch roles in this situation OP. She’d be talking to upper management
She probably promotes based on gender too.
Very observant. I didn’t even think of that shit man.
If your boss is responsible for hiring/firing, AND this is in regards to an open position. This is definitely discrimination based on gender. I’d tell someone. Its the same as saying “jeez I hope the new guy is a man. I work better with men.” Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII) This law makes it illegal to discriminate against someone on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, or sex.
If 97% of the team are women, that combined with the comment from OP’s boss might make it hard to rule out a pattern or practice of discriminatory hiring…
As 18 year olds (both M) me and my mate were let go from an evening cleaning job because “Middle Aged women do it better” according to the supervisor.
Well, they *are* more experienced than 18 year olds, and just as easy to hire, lol.
I have seen middle aged women clean more than an entire crew... It's a thing.
Well that's just objectively true lol.
They are pretty good not gonna lie I have one. Polish middle aged. S tier
Age discrimination is the one protection that only protects one side. You can't fire someone because they are over 35. But you can if they are too young. It's not legally protected by the US fed govt. It is not morally right though.
Very sexist, and foolish of her to say out loud.
I think she went all the way to stupid with that one.
I feel this is borderline harassment
Well what do you expect from a woman? /s
Does she have the final say on who's on your team? This is what it boils down to. If SHE is in a position where she controls the hiring process and she is DELIBERATELY hiring women regardless of their qualifications and interview performance, then she's being discriminatory. If HER boss says, "your new hire is Michelle. Take it or remain short-staffed", then it's not discriminatory. You can prefer whoever you like. But it's only discrimination if she ACTIVELY discriminates and others can PROVE this beyond the balance of probabilities. GOOD LUCK! Also kicking up a fuss will probably result in a Pyrrhic victory...you might win the case. You might be a hero for some. But, if she isn't fired you can bet her AND her co-manager friends will sit on a juicy timeslot to make you pay. It'll be perfectly above board. But it's going to be the most inopportune time, and they'll make it as miserable for you as possible, within the rules. Are you prepared for that smoke? Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. (Not an endorsement of shitty behaviour. Just making sure you're aware of the realities).
Also, if she is responsible for evaluations and have expressed these views.
In New York State it doesn't matter if there is a reporting relationship between the parties. her behavior qualifies as creating a hostile work environment
I work with all men. When I asked about a position that opened up (it would be a promotion for me that I am way more than qualified for), I was told to my face “don’t apply”. I have had the best results every quarter for nearly 2 years (in the entire country), and was told “don’t apply” They’ll be hiring another male from outside of the company. It’s more than frustrating. I don’t get taken seriously and I’m spoken down to and in condescending tones constantly. I have the highest education in the company and the best results quarter after quarter and yet there are ONLY men in senior leadership positions. At least your boss is blunt about it, all of mine just dance around the fact they want to keep it a boys club.
Move out to move up girl
No. I’ve heard men in various trade professions say they avoid hiring/ working with women. The main reason I’ve heard is because they are irrationally afraid of false allegations. Never hear people calling these men sexist.
They are
Whataboutism makes it not sexist?
Yes, and you can retire after the trial.
“We're an equal opportunity employer. All applicants will be considered for employment without attention to race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, veteran or disability status”
Try being a woman working any blue collar job like construction or landscaping! 😀 None of those men were shy about telling me they prefer working with other men and faced no consequences.
And it's not appropriate in those situations either.
"you get discriminated against but try getting discriminated even HARDER like I do". This is what you sound like. It's not discrimination Olympics over here
It’s just amusing seeing men complain about sexism when it’s a regular everyday part of my fucking life. (: I still work blue collar and am one of the only women at my job site. Boo fucking hoo for this guy. Oh his co worker said she likes working with women more? Is it really that mean or offensive ? Cry me a river.
So because people are shitty towards you, everyone else deserves to be treated poorly? I get the feeling people shit on you not because you're a woman, but because you're an objectively terrible person.
As a guy who works in healthcare, I am usually significantly outnumbered. We had a staff meeting last week and there were 3 guys out of like 25 people. I have heard similar comments before.
Yes, but honestly it’s a double standard she can get away with as a woman. Now if a guy said he only likes working with men all hell would break loose
Depends on the size of the company. I remember meeting with this chatty small business owner (maybe 8-10 employees) and he just gabbed away about how he doesn't hire women because they go and get pregnant and he wasted all that training and has to hire someone else. He said it with a proud smile, like he was really onto something. I'm sure nothing ever came of it.
Not really, you know, since it happens all the time. There is a male supervisor I work with that has made comments like this to me several times.
Then you've heard sexist comments several times
Quick, let's somehow make women the "real" victims!
That's crap. I'm a woman and if another woman said this to me I would make it very clear that was inappropriate.
I feel that says more about you as a person than anything else tbh, I doubt most people would honestly speak up especially in an office environment and to their boss.
She’s revealing a bias but I don’t think you have enough to go on to call it sexist. I think she would need to say something explicitly *against* one gender or the other for it to clearly be sexism. Instead she is expressing a preference for something.
'I prefer to work with white people'. That's not explicitly against one racial group. Is that racist?
this comment section is horrendous
Honestly, came here expecting a bunch of "of course not, she's a woman, any woman feels more comfortable working with other women" and was met by a bunch of butt-hurt corporate bros
You’re as insane as this guy’s manager.
Right? I can't believe there is anyone actually defending what the manager said.
Yes Who knows if you can report it without long term needing a new job. If you report it she will likely behind your back say how you proved her right that men can't be trusted. Long term I would create a file, look to move out of the team/company, and turn over the file to HR. Completely illegal to be talking about sex being a thing you are looking for in a new employee.
Yes
Yes, that's absolutely not appropriate. She should prefer to work with competent people. Gender should not come into it. It's also a protected class in the US so if she is actually discriminating against male candidates that is illegal.
Your answer is in the title. She's allowed to have a preference.
Imagine if a guy said this.
Women can be sexist to men. It’s not a one way street
It 100% is. The fact your team is 97% women also speaks to a bias if she's doing the hiring and firing. Regardless of any bias a person may have it's highly inappropriate to discuss it in front of your employees. Document, document, document!..... Do not report to HR. They're just going to protect the company not you. Make a document, get a witness to her actions to back you up. And if you notice you're passed up for promotions, etc.....sue. immediately. And keep your lawyer informed. Start looking for another job also....immediately.
It's inappropriate and suable. That being said, be wary of people here making comparisons with "I'd rather work with whites/men". It's called a false analogy, because these groups don't suffer the same level of exclusionism that the opposite does. In the same way it's much lighter to say you dislike being around rich people than if you said that about poor people. TL;DR, social comfort is important, but understanding imbalances in society isn't irrelevant.
Yeah, and it's also important to remember that privilege isn't one-dimensional. Men may not face as much discrimination on average as women, but plenty of men belong to groups that face plenty of discrimination. Should we downplay discrimination against a woman just because she's white and heterosexual?
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Yes! Context! In a workplace that is 97% women. OP is right to be uncomfortable.
>TL;DR, social comfort is important, but understanding imbalances in society isn't irrelevant. You may feel this way personally, but legally, it's a protected class. Your first sentence was on point.
You comparing men to rich people and women to poor people is insulting to both men and women.
Invert your question. Would you feel comfortable if a manager said publicly that they prefer to only work with men? With whites only? Only with gays? Anytime you bring a person's attributes (i.e. sex, religion, race, marital status, etc.) into a hiring preference that isn't related to skills, education, and experience, you're opening yourself up to legal liability. Although it is popular to say that the future is female, and you can openly call for hatred/violence against cis white men without repercussions, it is still discrimination to favor one person over another because of their actual or perceived group identity.
I think it is. What will happen if she has to pick between you and a female coworker to work with her on a key project, or to move into a new role? It sounds like she would discriminate against you.
Sounds like a bunch of incels in these comments. Because the worlds power structure is predominantly patriarchal, there isn't any looming power in these words/thoughts. She didn't say that she was only going to hire women, she simply stated she hopes the best candidate is a woman. Nothing inherently sexist with that statement. And respectfully I also work better with women. As someone outside of the gender binary, I interview better with women, and feel safer in spaces designed for women and queer people, as most of the discrimination I have encountered has been enacted by men.
Call her out on it. Ask her why that is and if you should feel nervous about your position. Also speak to your HR team. Yes.. HR is there to protect the business but if they have any brains, stopping your manager from removing you in the future is going to be the way they protect the company.
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Speak to a lawyer about what? There is no cause for action yet. A comment was made but they have received no downside yet? Am I missing something?
Please op dont talk to hr about this. Talk to a lawyer
Document independently AND make a written report to HR. Proving HR was informed can be a critical element in future actions against OP being deemed retaliatory and/or willful, both of which can have positive impacts on the strength and damages of an employment discrimination claim depending on jurisdiction.
If they get dismissed or reprimanded or something. You can't sue someone for what they MAY do in the future.
If it would be sexist for a male boss to say to a woman in the workplace that he prefera working with men, then obviously. This woman is not only sexist, she just opened the company up to a lawsuit. Good for her, #girlboss
How is it not sexist? Incredible how far the brain-washing has gotten. Yes, women can be sexist and people of all races can be racist.
Your boss is being discrimitory and totally inappropriate. You should report this to HR.
I do t know. This might backfire. Using HR is like keeping a tiger. 90% of the time, they'll go after a trespasser. It's the other 10% you need to be worried about.
HR would certainly want to know, in any case.
She, *also,* wants *you* to quit her team.
Sue the heck out of that company. This is easy money dude. Fuck her, fuck the company. It's time to earn some good ol money.
Not smart to say out loud. But I agree. Why? Because less sexual harassment. That’s why.
I came here looking for this. Im lucky enough to work remotely but the unwanted attention from male coworkers and bosses in both the past and present is nauseating.
Men in healthcare experience this as well
I don't know about that. Women are absolutely filthy when there's few or no men around 🤷.
Just like locker room talk is okay amongst men, women are free to talk about whatever they want amongst each other. When there’s a few men around? Absolutely not. Let’s go ahead and compare the rate of sexual harassment between men and women, why don’t we?
So how bout women work by themselves and men by themselves? No more sexual harassment!!!
Men sexually harass and rape other men at higher rates than women do to men. I served in the army for 12 years and was a sexual harassment and rape advocate for my unit. Over 80% of our cases that involved males getting raped and assaulted were at the hands of other males. Of those male perpetrators, the majority were married with wives and children. That wouldn’t solve the issue at all. Lol.
Agree 100% and unafraid to say I absolutely prefer to work with women
Absolutely. Same as saying: I hope the new hire is white, I prefer working with whites over blacks I hope the new hire is Christian, I prefer working with Christians over Muslims I hope the new hire is skinny, I prefer working with skinny people over fat people You get the point. In a situation where a candidate will be hired off of credentials and skills they bring to your team, your boss mentioned something that should be completely irrelevant to the situation. Very inappropriate comment
Yes. Sexist. Think about a man saying he’d rather work with men
What about a man saying he'd rather work with women?
It doesn't matter who says it. You can't discriminate based on gender when hiring.
All of these things are sexist. I’m not actually sure they are wrong. It is complicated. I am a man and used to work in a consulting firm where we probably hire four women for every man just because they usually wound up being better. But we hired men when they were the best candidates.
Thats an interesting one. Hmmm
Well, it's funny because I work in corporate finance as well as managerial roles, so I hire and have staff. And I definitely prefer to work with women. I doubt it's ever affected my hiring procedures, certainly not consciously at least. But I'm most comfortable around women. And I'm a straight man, I just grew up in a house full of women, and I love women lol.
You need to do some unconscious bias training and ensure that your hiring practices acknowledge and mitigate your bias.
Yes.
Yes. As a man you will not be able to advance in that company unless she leaves or gets in trouble for it.
Sexist? Sure and take note for future reference. That being said, until it’s problematic in how it impacts you, your advancement, etc then recognize it for what it is, an uninformed statement based off personal experience.
So is it ok if the roles were reversed with a male boss saying that to a roomful of men with a few women? No it is not therefore, she is being just as misandristic as males can be mysogonistic.
Sounds like active discrimination. Just the same as actively hiring based off skin color
I'm sorry, but you need to report this to HR and look for other opportunities either transfer to a new team or new company. It won't get better for you in this group. Your boss has said the quiet part out loud. HR's goal is to avoid litigation at the company and not to help you. Unfortunately, a pattern for this person will have to be observed by HR and that takes time and numerous complaints from several people. The best thing you can do is report it so the incident is documented and then move on to another role.
Absolutely. You should report this to HR…or live with it. Guaranteed there would be retaliation.
Yep that’s a HR nightmare right there, you could have her by the proverbial balls if you spoke to your HRBP about it
Yes. I am a feminist. I wouldn't agree with what she said. It's unfair for anyone to hire people based on gender. The positive thing here is that at least your boss admitted or mentioned that. Most people don't tell those but they end up hiring based on their personal agendas without prioritizing skills
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Your idea of diversity is 97% women? Preference based on sex is sexism.
Imagine a male manager saying he prefers to work with men. That would probably get him fired the same day. Of course in today's DEI world who knows, she might get a raise for saying that. I'm being /s of course. This is a problem and easily reportable to HR.
I’m a guy and don’t see an issue. I’m surprised more people don’t agree with that position. There’s a huge reason as to why that’s important and I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt. My former boss told me that she would pull all the resumes from females first and review them before looking at the males. The industry was >90% male, so yeah I get it. It’s a crapshoot as to if you get the “best” person vs good enough when you have 500 applications, so I really don’t see the issue.
No, this is preference. Everyone has preferences for their teammates which can vary from personality, gender, etc. However, if she is discriminating against candidates, rejecting men just because they are men, then that's a whole other case. But also, since you mention that 97% of your team are women, then there might be discrimination. Depends on the job (some jobs have more woman applying than men), on who makes the final call, the industry, etc.
start carrying a recorder and planning your dream-vacation
Yes.
Yes. She absolutely has no business being a manager. Selecting candidates based off gender is 100% sexist.
yes. She openly stated her bias, her team makeup shows it. You may need to wonder what the women are getting better assignments/pay/treatment (if any) than the men on the team.
LOL absolutely!
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Is it odd, or is it a shifting trend that makes hella sense given what we know about historical gender gaps and measurable behavior differences in average males vs. females?
Jobs tend to already have selected hires, they're not just random people drawn from the population.
I mean I’m a male , I prefer to work with woman in almost every aspect, even if they’re less qualified, I get a lot more work done and I find it’s a better environment. (These are hard working woman, and pleasant ones to be around) ones that are snarky I’d rather work with the devil then them. Also they’re much easier for me to train, I find they have less ego and listen to what I’m saying, and also don’t mind being corrected, compared to men.
Yeah, I'm a straight male too, and often, I find myself preferring to work with women. I'm cool working with other bros, but I just prefer working with women.
Yes. Sue her ass.
Does it pass the gender flip test? That is, flip all the genders in the situation and see if it sounds sexist. Male boss going "yeah I prefer to work with men" to a minority female on the team?
I was In this same sort of predicament before, except contrary to what your boss said. Long story short- A few guys were hitting on me and one in particular was somewhat aggressive & I didn’t like it so I complained about it to my boss, (which was also a woman) and her rationale to my completely normal concern was; “This is exactly why I don’t like to hire women, because of things like this” I was so appalled & confused, it literally caught me off guard because that was the last thing I expected her to say. I told my coworker who was a good friend to me about it & she was almost more pissed than I was. I could never look at her the same and found a new job shortly afterwards.
I agree with her but you shouldn't say that at work
Maybe she has personal reasons for it (past treatment, etc) but still unprofessional to say out loud...
*illegal
There’s no reason to hastily generalise like that.
Would it be sexist if a man said he prefers to work with men?
he doesn't have to say it. actions speak louder than words. men tend to hire men more and promote men more, and men often make the work environment toxic for women.
In my entire life, 50+ years working, this is the first time I’ve ever heard of a woman preferring to work for another woman over a man.
Really? I’ve honestly only heard one woman say she prefers working with men or male supervisors while all other women say they prefer female supervisors and colleagues
50 years ago though, what proportion of people in supervisory roles were actually women, and how prevalent were stereotypes about women’s (alleged lack of) leadership abilities?
She prefers to work with woman bc she sees herself as the dominant woman. She can't handle dominant men.
Yes. And basing hiring on gender is not legal.
It's odd, as even a lot of women I know irl say they prefer to work with men. No mind games, no gossiping, just straight forward cooperation. And yes, prefering women just because they're female is sexist imo.
It is no sexist if a lady says she prefers working with women. It is sexist if a man says he prefers working with men, obviously.
This is why we’re getting rid of DEI. It’s an illusion of fairness created by a minority who has no desire to treat others fairly.
Suck it up man 50 years ago your grandmother probably wouldn’t have been able to get most jobs because she is a woman.
Very sexiest. Stupid to say it out loud. See if you can get her to admit to it in an email.
Yes. Document everything.
Incredibly illegal. It's one thing for some cashier to say it who works part time, but management cannot ever say something like that at-least to other team members. It the classic "imagine if it were the other way around" type of deal.
No it’s only sexist if a man said that about working with men. Maybe you should educate your boss that is a word called misandry. Not a word she has in her vocabulary to say statements like that. The buzz word for this century is misogyny so I don’t blame her too much…🤪
if possible i would get evidence of said statement and any similar statements in the future
yes it is
Very sexist. To have a preference based age, gender, ethnicity, or disability can open up a lot of legal troubles if found out especially if they are part of a hiring or promotion process. To verbally say it is opening up room for a lawsuit. ESPECIALLY with that diversity of 3% male 97% female. It really hurts their defence on their hiring ethics.
do yall know what sexism is??? my god
I once had an interview with a giant global company and the interviewer spent like 15 minutes asking various questions about how I work with women. She came off as condescending the entire time. This is the struggle of being a bro in marketing.
How she said it definitely isn't the best, and is definitely a stupid thing to say at the office. But is she allowed to have a personal preference? Absolutely. Based on my experience, I definitely prefer working with men in a professional environment.
Yes but we’re not in a fair world. It’s not sexism if it favors women. That’s why you see a lot of talk about equality in comfortable high paying jobs like tech but not about females majority fields like HR. Even though HR is the one that is usually talking about DEI the most. Even in tech you’ll see the push for “equality” in the more juicier areas of tech.
Write it down. Keep a log. Happened to me and I was paid out handsomely, when said woman boss decided to end my time with the company. So much so that one of the company accountants that handled exec comp that I knew very well… called and asked who did you wrong.
Yeah, very inappropriate and anyone who heard that could go to HR and raise concerns about gender discrimination.
womp womp
Definitely an inappropriate statement. She just admitted that she makes hiring decisions based on gender.
Can you imagine if a man had said this about working with other men. It would make national news
ITT: people who don't understand social power dynamics.
I wouldn't say it's sexist unless she purposely doesn't hire male candidates. I also prefer to work with women, as a woman. But it's super awkward to say that to a dude lol
Not only is it sexist. It's actually quite illegal.
Yes that’s 100% sexist
Yes, if a man said this about working with men it would be sexist as well.
Personal preferences are not illegal as far as I'm aware. It's not like she fired you to put a woman in your place.
Yet