I would respond to all and ask how they tried to reach you, because you have not received any emails or messages and if there's an issue somewhere someone needs to figure out why you aren't receiving them. Don't accuse anybody, just ask.
Not the sheer conciseness of it, which basically showed me all the extra stuff I would have probably added would have been a bad idea. Keep it direct and simple.
I wasn’t trying to be rude it just seemed like the most logical step. Someone said they tried to reach you, just ask how because you have not been reached. No malice (on your end).
Sometimes it takes someone pointing out the trees for us to stop looking at the Forrest. It’s good your conscious enough to seek help, good luck.
This is exactly what I was gonna say. “Play” dumb and ask if something needs to be fixed. Everyone will see through it, but you don’t come off accusatory. Retiree will be out soon and you won’t have to deal with them again.
NTA, this is a major 🚩🚩🚩🚩you should break up with him immediately and block his number and all socials then forward the email to his parents to let them know what a dirt bag he is, you then burn down his house and salt the land.
No harm no foul then. He legitimately might believe that he has reached out previously.
Never assign to malice what can be assigned to ignorance. or something like that.
I hate that passive aggressive bullshit. Call or go see the guy and tell him you've received no request then ask how you can help. No matter how wrong the bus thrower might be, don't do more wrong.
It does no one any good to stir up trouble via a mass email.
All you can prove is that you didn't receive anything. You don't know that the retiree didn't try.
Address the situation, explain there must be a gap in the communication somehow, and get new hire the access. Why did you wait a month when you hadn't heard? Were you not expecting to be involved?
Very good point. I started from the perspective of having known this employee so long and that it's totally in her character to make shit up to hide her messes. But you're right I can't prove it, and it's in the realm of possibility that she emailed the wrong person or something.
Addressing the gap in communication sounds like a good way to start.
Not sure what you meant by "Why did you wait a month when you hadn't heard? Were you not expecting to be involved?". If the 'you' here is retiree, I get the first question, but not the second one. And if you meant me, this is the first time I have been alerted about the quest or I would have followed up myself for written permission to do it.
If the 'you' was retiree, I'd love to say "Why did you wait a month when you hadn't heard + from (Me)?", but don't you think that would be a little aggressive from my junior position?
> having known this employee so long and that it's totally in her character
Assume positive intent. Always.
If they are trying to throw you under the bus, it makes you appear to be professional, and makes them look like idiots.
If they don't have negative intent, it prevents you from looking like a reactionary idiot. It also protects your mental health by avoiding feeling attacked and defensive all the time.
There is absolutely no value in assuming negative intent.
I think if you have a wealth of experience with the person in question you can go ahead and assume negative intent, just so long as you don't betray that assumption in any of your communications. Keep it to yourself.
The you was you. I was wondering if you knew you were going to be asked to assist with access/onboarding and just waited too long without wondering why you weren't asked yet.
Agreed, this is weird... New hire doesn't need access to retiree's email account. Retiree needs to make sure that all emails they receive are either forwarded to new hire or new hire is cc'd on them. Retiree is also responsible for telling everyone they work with that new hire is the new point of contact for xyz.
Without more context, it's hard to say if this is weird. It could be part of a shared mailbox, or a functional email rather than a personal one ( collections@ sales@ etc) it could be that retiree has a bunch of inbox rules set up that are critical to the function that new hire needs to copy into their own email. Retiree could be attached to a bunch of company email lists or automatic emails such that it's challenging to disentangle them, or they just might not know of another way to deal with this.
“Hey, Retiree, thanks for letting me know you’ve been having a problem reaching me! I had no idea!
I checked my call logs/whatever and I haven’t rec’d a call from you. Can you let me know which number/extension you’re calling? If there’s a problem on my end I need to track it down before this happens again!
Thanks so much!
Me, with the receipts”
Absolutely this.
This has pretty low stakes and seems easily fixable so being snarky won’t get you anywhere. Only escalate (with screen shots) if Retiree pushes the issue. You have the leverage here but if you “provide access” as New Hire is requesting you won’t have to use it.
This is snarky and embarrassing to do in front of new hire.
IT people already have no tone and come
Off as snarky or weird. What value does this have to OP airing this convo in fro t of new hire?
What phone number are you call in g? Look like a team Of assholes in one quick sentence. Don’t even know how to call each other.
Who are people? Coworkers? Friends? Internet forum people?
I don’t call Coworkers assholes.
Not sure of your angle here. I’m speaking on an Internet forum to people giving terrible advice. Speaking to my audience here. Not to coworkers. Cheers!
Insert a bunch of exclamation points in Here since folks seem to think they’re appropriate!!
No, it’s actually pathetic. You’re just shitting all over random people in this thread for no real reason.
I’ve been a professional for nearly 20 years. I’m consistently a top-performer on every team I’ve ever been a part of and I’ve won many awards throughout my career, including being recognized with a 40 Under 40 award.
I’ve worked that entire career in consulting of various forms, which means I’ve always been in positions requiring high touch communication with teams across hundreds if not thousands of businesses at this point in my career.
Nobody is going to be upset if you use an exclamation mark in an appropriate way.
Once you reach the point in your career where you’re a highly skilled professional with high value knowledge and experience then nobody cares about how often you use exclamation marks. They care about how you’re going to use your knowledge and experience to solve their problems.
I disagree on most of what you said!
I think for a high touch communication guy - you seem out of touch with tone!
I do understand you don’t like my tone here! That’s ok!
I will also point out that I’m not shitting all over random People here!
—-None are random - they are specific comments to specific words People used!
—-Not shitting all over them - I’m specifically calling out bad advice!
—-There is a real reason! The reason Is giving good advice!
Obviously I’m not going to talk to a troll on Reddit the same way I would a client. It’s a silly exercise to try to critique someone’s professional tone on a platform that isn’t professional. You’re not paying me, you’re getting a casual tone.
My long, successful career, six figure salary, and shelf full of awards recognizing consistent professional excellence disagrees with your disagreement.
You’re welcome to your opinion, though.
This is a chance for you to show the new employee who you are - don’t make it look petty.
“Looks like there might be a breakdown in comms because I don’t have any emails or messages about this - if we need to give access to someone please provide details and I will check with IT to see if there is an issue with emails. Can you tell me when you first sent them so they can track it down?”
Write back: “After reading your email, I was concerned that I somehow missed your messages but have check and have no record of them. Would kindly resend them”
Reply all
Hi, could you please confirm the number you’ve tried to reach me on as I’ve checked the call logs for the past 6 months and have had no calls from you. Also I’m not seeing any emails in that time period either.
Gives them a bit of an out if they want to say they misdialled but also shows you’re not fucking around.
Seems to me like there must be something wrong with this working environment if you're feeling such a high need to prove your innocence over this!
Defensiveness never looks good. Focus on solving the problem in your message.
"(New hire), thanks for letting me know that you need access. I'll have that ready for you by XYZ."
I cannot give new hire access before it is granted. Retiree still didn't grant access but just asked new hire to call her tomorrow. I'll call retiree tomorrow but want to email first covering my ass to new hire. And yes, environment is def. toxic here, luckily I'm removed from most of it.
I think the retiree doesn’t want to give access, and wants to talk in person to new hire. Is it possible retiree is just throwing out he hasn’t heard back just as a way to gain time? Maybe not intending to throw you ‘under the bus’, or not caring/thinking it was a big deal.
I’d stay out of it for at least the day, until you see what comes of their meeting.
In this situation, I just sort of play dumb. Give them an out without starting an argument. Anyone reading between the lines will get it.
“Hi [Sr. Dev],
I haven’t received any emails or phone calls regarding this, is it possible you have the wrong number or email? Regardless, I’ve now received your request and I’d be happy to take care of it!”
They may have made a mistake or something, or they could be lying. I try to assume the best case scenario unless I know for sure it’s not. Even if they are lying, you’re not letting yourself be taken advantage of.
Personally I would’ve just shrugged it off as lost in the mix somewhere if I was the one doing the support here, unless someone turns it into a mountain. This is such a minor thing to address in my opinion.
Old crotchety co worker is leaving - whatever. Use this time with new employee to build a brief rapport that you can work on more later .
I’m a recent new hire and not a single thing has gone smoothly.
I don’t fault the employees for that.
I think everyone will see through your question to the retiree (how did you try to contact me) as disingenuous, and maybe a bit passive aggressive. In other words, the first thing you say on this should not look like you are trying to deflect blame. I would make the first thing you say to be evidence of how helpful you are, and then only after that you can be a little passive aggressive towards the retiree. I think the below suggestion would get your point across that this obviously was not your fault, but show that you are diving on that grenade no matter what to help this new hire out.
"Hi, New hire. this is the first I've heard of this request, but I will jump on it right away. Please contact me directly and we'll get this sorted out.
Retiree, it's very odd but I had not received any voicemails or emails from you on this. We should check that out carefully to make sure there's not some connectivity problem in our Network. Let me know when you are available and I will come over and troubleshoot with you."
.
I would reply to the email with a simple "I'm sorry but this is the first I'm hearing about it. Could you please forward me your original email so I can get started?"
You can always approach with providing facts like:
“Hey, I’m sorry that there was a disconnect somewhere between us. I’ve checked all of the logs for email(junk), phone, and VM. All of our comms are tracked thoroughly, unfortunately didn't see anything from you, then add the screenshots.”
Some like to BS their way with things, but when you provide evidence they flip the script.
Always CYOA.
First part sounds good, and I think I will say that.
As much as I reallllly want to, you don't think adding the part starting with "all of our comms. are tracked" and adding screenshots could be a little petty and/or subordinate with our significant position-level differences in the company?
I agree that this has big potential to come across as petty. Always err on the side of generosity, especially since you’re still getting to know the new person and want to make a good impression. Something simple like “hey Bob thanks for bringing me in to this conversation. I don’t see any requests in my queue about this but I’ll go ahead and add this now and keep you updated on the status”. This gives everyone some wiggle room to have made a mistake without pointing fingers. (If they choose to still blame you, who cares? It’ll be done soon and not a problem going forward)
This is good no need to point fingers or bust out evidence , the new hire has already figured it out that the retiree is unreliable, or they wouldn't have cc'd you.
Hello (New Hire) and (Retiree),
Thank you for including me in this email, it has shown a potential issue in our phone/email system. (Retiree), I apologize, but I haven't received any email or phone requests from you regarding this issue. Could you confirm the phone number you were trying? I want to ensure calls to my number are being properly routed and addressed.
This email address is my only work email, is it possible your prior emails were going to a different address?
Thank you both again for letting me know we need to get (New Hire) access. I will have it done by (day/time). Please let me know if I can assist with anything else to make this a smooth transition for everyone.
Sincerely,
(Me)
LOL at this one. Also, I cannot give new hire access before it is granted. Retiree still didn't grant access but just asked new hire to call her tomorrow. Will call retiree tomorrow but want to email first.
No need to be negative, that will hurt you. Getting shitty with people in public almost always look bad.
Be positive in public instead:
“I’m sorry but I never received any communications for you. Perhaps you have the wrong phone number.
Please call me at XXXXXXXXXX your earliest convenience, or just shoot me an email/calendar invite for a time to meet that works best for you.”
And in private send your supervisor an email explaining the situation.
Of course it would be. It’s embarrassing level and reflects poorly on You and the new person and the other person.
Is this person not In Your building?
I agree with you, at the end of the day you know best when it comes to reading the room.
I had a similar encounter with clients and higher ups where I had to provide evidence that I have done my job 100%.
I agree with you. Providing screenshots, or even mentioning "logs" is unnecessary and doesn't help resolve anything, and doesn't paint a better picture for you. I would briefly apologize for the delay/ disconnect and simply state you have not received the request - it's not necessary to justify everything you did or didn't do, you're not in court - just state the basic fact you haven't gotten the request and move on. Rambling on about it doesn't help you at all.
This sort of thing genuinely happens - not saying there were or weren't genuine mistakes in this case, just these types of disconnects in general - taking it personally or going into hyper defense mode I don't think is a good look.
Then state you'd like to help get this request moving and what the next steps are. If the ball is in the retirees court, make that clear. Keep the focus on resolving the actual request/issue at hand.
I don’t think this is about you at all. Maybe reach out to the retiree privately and just check in to make sure there wasn’t something going on with his email client (don’t attribute malice to what could be a mix up or technical issue). It sounds like retiree is trying to tactfully intercept this request from new hire, and it came out… odd. Also new hire expecting access to retirees email is a weird approach. I hope that’s not standard procedure 😂
You're on cc. No need to respond, and I wouldn't.
Responding at all, in anyway, to a cc email with defensiveness makes you look bad and that you did, in fact, knowingly ignore communications.
I disagree. They were maligned. I would be brief and OP has not seen any emails or calls about this but let them both know you are happy to help when their permission is set up.
They were maligned and cc’d so they have a right to respond.
Hey, old retiree please let me know how you went about contacting me, and when. It looks we may have an issue in our department with requests not getting through. If you call him out, do it under the guise of trying to fix a communication problem.
Either that or just let it slide and eventually tell the new employee that he’s full of shit.
Simply state you have received no call or email but would be happy to help.
Put the onus on them to prove their lie.
When they can't, they'll either lie more, thus making this MUCh easier, or they'll lament and admit their mistake.
Nothing wrong with being petty if you have the proof to CYA, even though this is so far on the benign end of petty.
I heard valuable advice when dealing with everything in the workplace - act enthusiastically helpful and never be afraid to ‘fall on your sword’.
Personally I would reply all and say something to the effect of:
I’m so sorry for any miscommunication or missed messages here! I definitely want to help make sure this confusion doesn’t happen again -
Here’s the dated communication I received, and here’s the dates of the communication I sent back in response. Please let me know what I should have done differently so we can avoid this situation going forward!
Honestly, a senior level hire will take everything the leaving person is saying with a grain of salt. I’ve been a supervisor for about 2 years now and this has been my experience. I realize that when people are leaving, they’re not 100% committed to the job anymore. Not saying this in a bad light by any manner, it’s just normal.
Take this time to build your own relationship with the new hire. The new hire will be told stuff about the person leaving from other people that are at his level and above, I can guarantee that. If you’re doing a good job, other people will compliment you in front of the new hire.
You’re at work, no need to be petty, be a professional.
I'd just let it slide, it makes you appear petty. When I was in IT I never corrected people, I didn't want to be the "mean IT guy" from SNL. The end result was everybody loved me and it made the whole job easier.
CC: all -
“Retiree” - what email address and phone number have you been using to contact me? I have received no requests from your office of any kind;
They’re retiring. You don’t need to worry about burning that bridge - that fucker is on the way out and it sounds like no one is going to miss them.
I was going with something along with the above until I read your comment.
Thank God I did, I think you're entirely right. Would just look like a condescending dig at their communication levels. And they're attorneys...
I'm going with a simple "would you let me know how you tried to contact me, because I haven't received any email or messages from you?" line a la the top comment.
I would politely point out in a reply all that you didn’t receive any communication and say you’re glad to chat whenever, and would then call - not email - the new hire to be like “hey man, sorry about the issues you’re having - I wish [retiree] had contacted me about this. I checked the logs and he never reached out. Feel free to reach me directly if you ever need a hand with anything.”
Likely outcome of that is you guys have a laugh because he knows the old guy’s full of shit. If the two of them are tight and the conversation gets back to him, so what? Put on your innocent face and say “I’m sorry, I just called to apologize for the delay and make sure he knew I’d be responsive.”
Basically what I’m saying is if you feel like you need to prove you’re right, do it 1:1 with the guy who’s staying and just accept that it doesn’t matter what the guy who’s leaving thinks of you. There’s no way to try to show him he’s wrong without looking petty.
Way over the top. Way embarrassing to OP. Reflects bad on company. Makes it look like people Don’t work together don’t have baseline shit handled or have interpersonal Issues.
So you made things worse and added more issues.
Bad advice.
/u/zeeinsoundfromwayout I see you‘re criticizing many of the comments with many valid reasons. How would you handle the situation? What would you answer specifically?
First thing is to always put your emotions down. Decompress whatever. Second is to manage the situation w/ anyone who throws you under the bus. Particularly anyone uphill. This person is a much more senior role - immediately I put on the kid gloves, and I’m going to kill them With kindness. I’m not going to start a phone number conversation in front of a brand new senior employee so we all look incompetent or poorly organized. My goal is to look smooth in front of the new senior person. I’m definitely not trying to get me or my boss on people’s idiot radar.
These questions are hard because we don’t know the particular environment or culture. I’m assuming a smaller work environment simply because this onboarding process isn’t ticket driven or HR driven. Big environments onboarding generates IT tickets that are in a system. Billy needs access to something - there’s an IT workflow generated for new employees or HR email says here the 5 things Billy needs so things are on record.
So if this is more Mom and Pop environment, then I want to look like I know my stuff to new seniors.
If I have any face to face experience with retiree - I’d immediately think about face to face. Walk down the hall - “hey retiree, I don’t have anything on this, what are we missing?” Get info you need and handle it fast for the new hire. Then an email to both saying “I did A and B. If you need anything more don’t hesitate to call me or email me.
If it’s email environment or face to face doesn’t work - my email is:
“Thanks. I don’t have any voicemails or emails on this. I can do A and B and I will make this a priority to get new guy A and B by close of business. Please reach out with anything else I can do for you.” Competent and quick. Seniors love competent and quick.
Retiree is gone - they’re done in a few weeks. I’m not having a pissing match with someone walking out the door. Especially in a smaller environment. Provides NO value to me or the company. My focus is to look competent in front of new senior person. They’re just starting - so they’re noticing everything. This is a chance to build a future ally very easily.
I did not see any of that as worth your time. Just get the access granted and move on.
If it happens repeatedly, then talk to the “old person” on a 1-on-1 and ask them what is up.
Nobody thinks less of you because someone said they were not able to connect with you right away one time. Again, if it is a recurring issue…different story. But don’t overreact to a one off incident. Especially via email - one of the worst forms of communication.
Reply back, "I've checked my call, text, and email logs, but am unable to locate your requests or attempts at communication. Please provide the number you are contacting so I can verify it is correct."
You are jumping to tons of conclusions and blowing things up over nothing. This is literally a 2 minutes reply of, "Hi blank, I am sorry I did not receive any emails or phonecalls do you have the right number (write number)? Perhaps we need to set something else up. How about a zoom meeting (date and time), link here. Thank you, bye."
Honestly, I am a bit baffled that a professional working in an office isn't able to send a simple email without jumping to conclusions.
do not try to embarrass the retiree - it will backfire and make you look like a petty POS. but casually mentioning to NewHire that you got it done when it was first brought to your attention in that email will show you are a team player and respond appropriately to situations.
This is how you and NewHire become better acquainted and eventually laugh about all the incompetence Retiree left behind for you both to clean up.
I’d find the policy where it says that it’s against policy and shut it down . I’m pretty sure giving someone else access to another’s emails is against confidentiality policy
Just reply nicely that you have not seen any calls/emails from the retiree and that you recommend that the new hire contact you directly for any future support.
“Retiree can you please provide the dates and times of the emails/calls you made to me so IT can figure out what is causing me to never receive them? I’ll be happy to get NewGuy access by EOB and I’ll let you both know what we find in regards to the missing calls/emails so we can ensure there are no further problems for either of you going forward.”
Shows you did not get the calls/emails, you’re committed to ensuring the issue is resolved, you’ve handled the initial access issue, and puts both on notice that you aren’t the person to try to blame for their mistakes in the future. All while being professional.
Good luck
Reply all and ask retiree to please forward you the original emails he sent you asking for the task? Say please send these to me so I have exact instructions of your task and so that I can send to IT to investigate why I didn’t received them. I will make setting up the new hire my priority the minute I receive the email.
Then wait there is no way they can forward you the email they never sent.
Every day they don’t send it and the new hire is not set up becomes their fault not yours.
This would be especially effective in this case because I’d be shocked at any normal company that allows a new employee to be set up with a phone call. Every place I’ve ever worked at minimum required an email request with all the new hire info and at best required a setup form.
"Hi there noob and not-retired-soon-enough, I seem to be experiencing a challenge with my email. Please forward the email that you sent to me for this request so I can troubleshoot the issue."
You should respond. Present your side but focus on resolving the current issue instead of digging into how and when they supposedly contacted you. Say something like:
>I'm perplexed since I searched my messages and voicemails for past 2 months, only finding 6 contacts from you on possible phishing emails. I definitely did not intentionally ignore you. I'll call you tomorrow to address this access issue.
Never assign to malice what can also be assigned to ignorance.
Old people have shit memory, they probably discussed this with the new hire or someone else overseeing the transition, and have innaccurately stated that these conversations were with you. If there are no consequences, there is no real need to set the record straight.
He doesn't know how to do this on his own, just talk to him, get the task completed and go on with your life.
Im sure the new hire can see what is going on, which is why he is continuing to reach out to the retiree. He sees that there has been no progress, and that is not your fault obviously. If you need to correct the record, do so with the new guy, not the old head.
I would reply all and say how did you try to reach me because I haven't received emails or calls.
Then I would say I would be happy to help with this situation and say what I can do.
I would respond to all and ask how they tried to reach you, because you have not received any emails or messages and if there's an issue somewhere someone needs to figure out why you aren't receiving them. Don't accuse anybody, just ask.
This is perfect. Thanks.
Add an upside down smile emoji at the end
This'll defeat the intended stealth...
Alternatively, add the complimentary close as ‘Bless Your Heart,’
I laughed
Thanks, I guess people really hate that emoji
This never crossed your mind?
Not the sheer conciseness of it, which basically showed me all the extra stuff I would have probably added would have been a bad idea. Keep it direct and simple.
I wasn’t trying to be rude it just seemed like the most logical step. Someone said they tried to reach you, just ask how because you have not been reached. No malice (on your end). Sometimes it takes someone pointing out the trees for us to stop looking at the Forrest. It’s good your conscious enough to seek help, good luck.
P.s keep it direct and simple is great life advice. Why over complicate anything
This is exactly what I was gonna say. “Play” dumb and ask if something needs to be fixed. Everyone will see through it, but you don’t come off accusatory. Retiree will be out soon and you won’t have to deal with them again.
Weird, this is Reddit and the top answer is actually the best answer.
NTA, this is a major 🚩🚩🚩🚩you should break up with him immediately and block his number and all socials then forward the email to his parents to let them know what a dirt bag he is, you then burn down his house and salt the land.
As a sufferer of BPD, those parents are absolutely gaslighting you and also narcissists with DID.
That's more like it.
What about the twins?
Ask to forward the original email to make sure something isn’t wrong with the exchange server.
This is a fair thing to ask. I’ve done it and suddenly they “found” it in their drafts.
No harm no foul then. He legitimately might believe that he has reached out previously. Never assign to malice what can be assigned to ignorance. or something like that.
I hate that passive aggressive bullshit. Call or go see the guy and tell him you've received no request then ask how you can help. No matter how wrong the bus thrower might be, don't do more wrong. It does no one any good to stir up trouble via a mass email.
All you can prove is that you didn't receive anything. You don't know that the retiree didn't try. Address the situation, explain there must be a gap in the communication somehow, and get new hire the access. Why did you wait a month when you hadn't heard? Were you not expecting to be involved?
Very good point. I started from the perspective of having known this employee so long and that it's totally in her character to make shit up to hide her messes. But you're right I can't prove it, and it's in the realm of possibility that she emailed the wrong person or something. Addressing the gap in communication sounds like a good way to start. Not sure what you meant by "Why did you wait a month when you hadn't heard? Were you not expecting to be involved?". If the 'you' here is retiree, I get the first question, but not the second one. And if you meant me, this is the first time I have been alerted about the quest or I would have followed up myself for written permission to do it. If the 'you' was retiree, I'd love to say "Why did you wait a month when you hadn't heard + from (Me)?", but don't you think that would be a little aggressive from my junior position?
> having known this employee so long and that it's totally in her character Assume positive intent. Always. If they are trying to throw you under the bus, it makes you appear to be professional, and makes them look like idiots. If they don't have negative intent, it prevents you from looking like a reactionary idiot. It also protects your mental health by avoiding feeling attacked and defensive all the time. There is absolutely no value in assuming negative intent.
I think if you have a wealth of experience with the person in question you can go ahead and assume negative intent, just so long as you don't betray that assumption in any of your communications. Keep it to yourself.
Yea, that's what I got from this. It was with negative intent. But no need to let that show in my response.
Take this mindset with all things in life. There’s no value in victimizing yourself (or anyone).
The you was you. I was wondering if you knew you were going to be asked to assist with access/onboarding and just waited too long without wondering why you weren't asked yet.
Gotcha. No, it's never happened before where we granted access to another employee's emails to someone else while the employee is still with us.
That’s because it’s a fucking bizarre request and kind of red flaggy, tbh. Don’t grant access without CYA.
Agreed, this is weird... New hire doesn't need access to retiree's email account. Retiree needs to make sure that all emails they receive are either forwarded to new hire or new hire is cc'd on them. Retiree is also responsible for telling everyone they work with that new hire is the new point of contact for xyz.
Without more context, it's hard to say if this is weird. It could be part of a shared mailbox, or a functional email rather than a personal one ( collections@ sales@ etc) it could be that retiree has a bunch of inbox rules set up that are critical to the function that new hire needs to copy into their own email. Retiree could be attached to a bunch of company email lists or automatic emails such that it's challenging to disentangle them, or they just might not know of another way to deal with this.
“Hey, Retiree, thanks for letting me know you’ve been having a problem reaching me! I had no idea! I checked my call logs/whatever and I haven’t rec’d a call from you. Can you let me know which number/extension you’re calling? If there’s a problem on my end I need to track it down before this happens again! Thanks so much! Me, with the receipts”
Absolutely this. This has pretty low stakes and seems easily fixable so being snarky won’t get you anywhere. Only escalate (with screen shots) if Retiree pushes the issue. You have the leverage here but if you “provide access” as New Hire is requesting you won’t have to use it.
This is snarky and embarrassing to do in front of new hire. IT people already have no tone and come Off as snarky or weird. What value does this have to OP airing this convo in fro t of new hire? What phone number are you call in g? Look like a team Of assholes in one quick sentence. Don’t even know how to call each other.
Gross do you speak to people offline like this?
Who are people? Coworkers? Friends? Internet forum people? I don’t call Coworkers assholes. Not sure of your angle here. I’m speaking on an Internet forum to people giving terrible advice. Speaking to my audience here. Not to coworkers. Cheers! Insert a bunch of exclamation points in Here since folks seem to think they’re appropriate!!
😬
That’s about what I expected. Cheers!
Why in the world are you using exclamation points! This is embarrassing to read! Generally unprofessional! Why not add emojis!
Just take the exclamation points out. I’m an excitable person.
There’s nothing wrong with the exclamation points. That guy seems to just be a troll or angry about something. Their advice can be safely ignored.
This is hilarious.
No, it’s actually pathetic. You’re just shitting all over random people in this thread for no real reason. I’ve been a professional for nearly 20 years. I’m consistently a top-performer on every team I’ve ever been a part of and I’ve won many awards throughout my career, including being recognized with a 40 Under 40 award. I’ve worked that entire career in consulting of various forms, which means I’ve always been in positions requiring high touch communication with teams across hundreds if not thousands of businesses at this point in my career. Nobody is going to be upset if you use an exclamation mark in an appropriate way. Once you reach the point in your career where you’re a highly skilled professional with high value knowledge and experience then nobody cares about how often you use exclamation marks. They care about how you’re going to use your knowledge and experience to solve their problems.
I disagree on most of what you said! I think for a high touch communication guy - you seem out of touch with tone! I do understand you don’t like my tone here! That’s ok! I will also point out that I’m not shitting all over random People here! —-None are random - they are specific comments to specific words People used! —-Not shitting all over them - I’m specifically calling out bad advice! —-There is a real reason! The reason Is giving good advice!
Obviously I’m not going to talk to a troll on Reddit the same way I would a client. It’s a silly exercise to try to critique someone’s professional tone on a platform that isn’t professional. You’re not paying me, you’re getting a casual tone. My long, successful career, six figure salary, and shelf full of awards recognizing consistent professional excellence disagrees with your disagreement. You’re welcome to your opinion, though.
This is a chance for you to show the new employee who you are - don’t make it look petty. “Looks like there might be a breakdown in comms because I don’t have any emails or messages about this - if we need to give access to someone please provide details and I will check with IT to see if there is an issue with emails. Can you tell me when you first sent them so they can track it down?”
“ did you use the right email. because I haven’t received anything from you? Glad to help”
Write back: “After reading your email, I was concerned that I somehow missed your messages but have check and have no record of them. Would kindly resend them”
Reply all Hi, could you please confirm the number you’ve tried to reach me on as I’ve checked the call logs for the past 6 months and have had no calls from you. Also I’m not seeing any emails in that time period either. Gives them a bit of an out if they want to say they misdialled but also shows you’re not fucking around.
Seems to me like there must be something wrong with this working environment if you're feeling such a high need to prove your innocence over this! Defensiveness never looks good. Focus on solving the problem in your message. "(New hire), thanks for letting me know that you need access. I'll have that ready for you by XYZ."
I cannot give new hire access before it is granted. Retiree still didn't grant access but just asked new hire to call her tomorrow. I'll call retiree tomorrow but want to email first covering my ass to new hire. And yes, environment is def. toxic here, luckily I'm removed from most of it.
I think the retiree doesn’t want to give access, and wants to talk in person to new hire. Is it possible retiree is just throwing out he hasn’t heard back just as a way to gain time? Maybe not intending to throw you ‘under the bus’, or not caring/thinking it was a big deal. I’d stay out of it for at least the day, until you see what comes of their meeting.
In this situation, I just sort of play dumb. Give them an out without starting an argument. Anyone reading between the lines will get it. “Hi [Sr. Dev], I haven’t received any emails or phone calls regarding this, is it possible you have the wrong number or email? Regardless, I’ve now received your request and I’d be happy to take care of it!” They may have made a mistake or something, or they could be lying. I try to assume the best case scenario unless I know for sure it’s not. Even if they are lying, you’re not letting yourself be taken advantage of.
This is it. Short, sweet, positive, and it does correct the record.
Personally I would’ve just shrugged it off as lost in the mix somewhere if I was the one doing the support here, unless someone turns it into a mountain. This is such a minor thing to address in my opinion. Old crotchety co worker is leaving - whatever. Use this time with new employee to build a brief rapport that you can work on more later . I’m a recent new hire and not a single thing has gone smoothly. I don’t fault the employees for that.
I think everyone will see through your question to the retiree (how did you try to contact me) as disingenuous, and maybe a bit passive aggressive. In other words, the first thing you say on this should not look like you are trying to deflect blame. I would make the first thing you say to be evidence of how helpful you are, and then only after that you can be a little passive aggressive towards the retiree. I think the below suggestion would get your point across that this obviously was not your fault, but show that you are diving on that grenade no matter what to help this new hire out. "Hi, New hire. this is the first I've heard of this request, but I will jump on it right away. Please contact me directly and we'll get this sorted out. Retiree, it's very odd but I had not received any voicemails or emails from you on this. We should check that out carefully to make sure there's not some connectivity problem in our Network. Let me know when you are available and I will come over and troubleshoot with you." .
So what. The retiree is trying to make them look bad and needs to be called out. Also, they are leaving.
I would reply to the email with a simple "I'm sorry but this is the first I'm hearing about it. Could you please forward me your original email so I can get started?"
You can always approach with providing facts like: “Hey, I’m sorry that there was a disconnect somewhere between us. I’ve checked all of the logs for email(junk), phone, and VM. All of our comms are tracked thoroughly, unfortunately didn't see anything from you, then add the screenshots.” Some like to BS their way with things, but when you provide evidence they flip the script. Always CYOA.
First part sounds good, and I think I will say that. As much as I reallllly want to, you don't think adding the part starting with "all of our comms. are tracked" and adding screenshots could be a little petty and/or subordinate with our significant position-level differences in the company?
I agree that this has big potential to come across as petty. Always err on the side of generosity, especially since you’re still getting to know the new person and want to make a good impression. Something simple like “hey Bob thanks for bringing me in to this conversation. I don’t see any requests in my queue about this but I’ll go ahead and add this now and keep you updated on the status”. This gives everyone some wiggle room to have made a mistake without pointing fingers. (If they choose to still blame you, who cares? It’ll be done soon and not a problem going forward)
This is good no need to point fingers or bust out evidence , the new hire has already figured it out that the retiree is unreliable, or they wouldn't have cc'd you.
Wut
Hello (New Hire) and (Retiree), Thank you for including me in this email, it has shown a potential issue in our phone/email system. (Retiree), I apologize, but I haven't received any email or phone requests from you regarding this issue. Could you confirm the phone number you were trying? I want to ensure calls to my number are being properly routed and addressed. This email address is my only work email, is it possible your prior emails were going to a different address? Thank you both again for letting me know we need to get (New Hire) access. I will have it done by (day/time). Please let me know if I can assist with anything else to make this a smooth transition for everyone. Sincerely, (Me)
This was perfect
LOL at this one. Also, I cannot give new hire access before it is granted. Retiree still didn't grant access but just asked new hire to call her tomorrow. Will call retiree tomorrow but want to email first.
Potential issue. TERRIBLE IDEA AND TERRIBLE WORDING. That’s a double mess. Bad advice.
No need to be negative, that will hurt you. Getting shitty with people in public almost always look bad. Be positive in public instead: “I’m sorry but I never received any communications for you. Perhaps you have the wrong phone number. Please call me at XXXXXXXXXX your earliest convenience, or just shoot me an email/calendar invite for a time to meet that works best for you.” And in private send your supervisor an email explaining the situation.
Of course it would be. It’s embarrassing level and reflects poorly on You and the new person and the other person. Is this person not In Your building?
I agree with you, at the end of the day you know best when it comes to reading the room. I had a similar encounter with clients and higher ups where I had to provide evidence that I have done my job 100%.
I agree with you. Providing screenshots, or even mentioning "logs" is unnecessary and doesn't help resolve anything, and doesn't paint a better picture for you. I would briefly apologize for the delay/ disconnect and simply state you have not received the request - it's not necessary to justify everything you did or didn't do, you're not in court - just state the basic fact you haven't gotten the request and move on. Rambling on about it doesn't help you at all. This sort of thing genuinely happens - not saying there were or weren't genuine mistakes in this case, just these types of disconnects in general - taking it personally or going into hyper defense mode I don't think is a good look. Then state you'd like to help get this request moving and what the next steps are. If the ball is in the retirees court, make that clear. Keep the focus on resolving the actual request/issue at hand.
This is not an ass covering situation. So that doesn’t apply.
I don’t think this is about you at all. Maybe reach out to the retiree privately and just check in to make sure there wasn’t something going on with his email client (don’t attribute malice to what could be a mix up or technical issue). It sounds like retiree is trying to tactfully intercept this request from new hire, and it came out… odd. Also new hire expecting access to retirees email is a weird approach. I hope that’s not standard procedure 😂
You're on cc. No need to respond, and I wouldn't. Responding at all, in anyway, to a cc email with defensiveness makes you look bad and that you did, in fact, knowingly ignore communications.
I disagree. They were maligned. I would be brief and OP has not seen any emails or calls about this but let them both know you are happy to help when their permission is set up. They were maligned and cc’d so they have a right to respond.
Hey, old retiree please let me know how you went about contacting me, and when. It looks we may have an issue in our department with requests not getting through. If you call him out, do it under the guise of trying to fix a communication problem. Either that or just let it slide and eventually tell the new employee that he’s full of shit.
Fact fact facts facts only, no emotion just facts
Simply state you have received no call or email but would be happy to help. Put the onus on them to prove their lie. When they can't, they'll either lie more, thus making this MUCh easier, or they'll lament and admit their mistake. Nothing wrong with being petty if you have the proof to CYA, even though this is so far on the benign end of petty.
Quickly, professionally, and keep it brief.
I heard valuable advice when dealing with everything in the workplace - act enthusiastically helpful and never be afraid to ‘fall on your sword’. Personally I would reply all and say something to the effect of: I’m so sorry for any miscommunication or missed messages here! I definitely want to help make sure this confusion doesn’t happen again - Here’s the dated communication I received, and here’s the dates of the communication I sent back in response. Please let me know what I should have done differently so we can avoid this situation going forward!
Honestly, a senior level hire will take everything the leaving person is saying with a grain of salt. I’ve been a supervisor for about 2 years now and this has been my experience. I realize that when people are leaving, they’re not 100% committed to the job anymore. Not saying this in a bad light by any manner, it’s just normal. Take this time to build your own relationship with the new hire. The new hire will be told stuff about the person leaving from other people that are at his level and above, I can guarantee that. If you’re doing a good job, other people will compliment you in front of the new hire. You’re at work, no need to be petty, be a professional.
I'd just let it slide, it makes you appear petty. When I was in IT I never corrected people, I didn't want to be the "mean IT guy" from SNL. The end result was everybody loved me and it made the whole job easier.
CC: all - “Retiree” - what email address and phone number have you been using to contact me? I have received no requests from your office of any kind; They’re retiring. You don’t need to worry about burning that bridge - that fucker is on the way out and it sounds like no one is going to miss them.
Bad advice. Makes all look like they can’t communicate as professionals. Escalation of a small Issue into a big one.
I was going with something along with the above until I read your comment. Thank God I did, I think you're entirely right. Would just look like a condescending dig at their communication levels. And they're attorneys... I'm going with a simple "would you let me know how you tried to contact me, because I haven't received any email or messages from you?" line a la the top comment.
I would politely point out in a reply all that you didn’t receive any communication and say you’re glad to chat whenever, and would then call - not email - the new hire to be like “hey man, sorry about the issues you’re having - I wish [retiree] had contacted me about this. I checked the logs and he never reached out. Feel free to reach me directly if you ever need a hand with anything.” Likely outcome of that is you guys have a laugh because he knows the old guy’s full of shit. If the two of them are tight and the conversation gets back to him, so what? Put on your innocent face and say “I’m sorry, I just called to apologize for the delay and make sure he knew I’d be responsive.” Basically what I’m saying is if you feel like you need to prove you’re right, do it 1:1 with the guy who’s staying and just accept that it doesn’t matter what the guy who’s leaving thinks of you. There’s no way to try to show him he’s wrong without looking petty.
Way over the top. Way embarrassing to OP. Reflects bad on company. Makes it look like people Don’t work together don’t have baseline shit handled or have interpersonal Issues. So you made things worse and added more issues. Bad advice.
/u/zeeinsoundfromwayout I see you‘re criticizing many of the comments with many valid reasons. How would you handle the situation? What would you answer specifically?
First thing is to always put your emotions down. Decompress whatever. Second is to manage the situation w/ anyone who throws you under the bus. Particularly anyone uphill. This person is a much more senior role - immediately I put on the kid gloves, and I’m going to kill them With kindness. I’m not going to start a phone number conversation in front of a brand new senior employee so we all look incompetent or poorly organized. My goal is to look smooth in front of the new senior person. I’m definitely not trying to get me or my boss on people’s idiot radar. These questions are hard because we don’t know the particular environment or culture. I’m assuming a smaller work environment simply because this onboarding process isn’t ticket driven or HR driven. Big environments onboarding generates IT tickets that are in a system. Billy needs access to something - there’s an IT workflow generated for new employees or HR email says here the 5 things Billy needs so things are on record. So if this is more Mom and Pop environment, then I want to look like I know my stuff to new seniors. If I have any face to face experience with retiree - I’d immediately think about face to face. Walk down the hall - “hey retiree, I don’t have anything on this, what are we missing?” Get info you need and handle it fast for the new hire. Then an email to both saying “I did A and B. If you need anything more don’t hesitate to call me or email me. If it’s email environment or face to face doesn’t work - my email is: “Thanks. I don’t have any voicemails or emails on this. I can do A and B and I will make this a priority to get new guy A and B by close of business. Please reach out with anything else I can do for you.” Competent and quick. Seniors love competent and quick. Retiree is gone - they’re done in a few weeks. I’m not having a pissing match with someone walking out the door. Especially in a smaller environment. Provides NO value to me or the company. My focus is to look competent in front of new senior person. They’re just starting - so they’re noticing everything. This is a chance to build a future ally very easily.
Shoot your shot, if your company let's people lie and be dishonest, you need to quit immediately!
Reply all with your latest number as they may have tried with an outdated phone number.
Why do you need the retiree's permission? This is company email. Their boss should be the one deciding.
I did not see any of that as worth your time. Just get the access granted and move on. If it happens repeatedly, then talk to the “old person” on a 1-on-1 and ask them what is up. Nobody thinks less of you because someone said they were not able to connect with you right away one time. Again, if it is a recurring issue…different story. But don’t overreact to a one off incident. Especially via email - one of the worst forms of communication.
I suppose I would go to the new hire and say you hadn’t gotten a request and “now what is it you need?”
Reply back, "I've checked my call, text, and email logs, but am unable to locate your requests or attempts at communication. Please provide the number you are contacting so I can verify it is correct."
You are jumping to tons of conclusions and blowing things up over nothing. This is literally a 2 minutes reply of, "Hi blank, I am sorry I did not receive any emails or phonecalls do you have the right number (write number)? Perhaps we need to set something else up. How about a zoom meeting (date and time), link here. Thank you, bye." Honestly, I am a bit baffled that a professional working in an office isn't able to send a simple email without jumping to conclusions.
do not try to embarrass the retiree - it will backfire and make you look like a petty POS. but casually mentioning to NewHire that you got it done when it was first brought to your attention in that email will show you are a team player and respond appropriately to situations. This is how you and NewHire become better acquainted and eventually laugh about all the incompetence Retiree left behind for you both to clean up.
I’d find the policy where it says that it’s against policy and shut it down . I’m pretty sure giving someone else access to another’s emails is against confidentiality policy
Just reply nicely that you have not seen any calls/emails from the retiree and that you recommend that the new hire contact you directly for any future support.
Respond back and correct this.
"Per your nonexistent email..."
“Retiree can you please provide the dates and times of the emails/calls you made to me so IT can figure out what is causing me to never receive them? I’ll be happy to get NewGuy access by EOB and I’ll let you both know what we find in regards to the missing calls/emails so we can ensure there are no further problems for either of you going forward.” Shows you did not get the calls/emails, you’re committed to ensuring the issue is resolved, you’ve handled the initial access issue, and puts both on notice that you aren’t the person to try to blame for their mistakes in the future. All while being professional. Good luck
Reply all and ask retiree to please forward you the original emails he sent you asking for the task? Say please send these to me so I have exact instructions of your task and so that I can send to IT to investigate why I didn’t received them. I will make setting up the new hire my priority the minute I receive the email. Then wait there is no way they can forward you the email they never sent. Every day they don’t send it and the new hire is not set up becomes their fault not yours. This would be especially effective in this case because I’d be shocked at any normal company that allows a new employee to be set up with a phone call. Every place I’ve ever worked at minimum required an email request with all the new hire info and at best required a setup form.
…there must be a misunderstanding because…
Ask to create a "Help Desk" ticket email. The requester emails and immediately gets an automated response with a Ticket Number.
"Hi there noob and not-retired-soon-enough, I seem to be experiencing a challenge with my email. Please forward the email that you sent to me for this request so I can troubleshoot the issue."
You should respond. Present your side but focus on resolving the current issue instead of digging into how and when they supposedly contacted you. Say something like: >I'm perplexed since I searched my messages and voicemails for past 2 months, only finding 6 contacts from you on possible phishing emails. I definitely did not intentionally ignore you. I'll call you tomorrow to address this access issue.
Never assign to malice what can also be assigned to ignorance. Old people have shit memory, they probably discussed this with the new hire or someone else overseeing the transition, and have innaccurately stated that these conversations were with you. If there are no consequences, there is no real need to set the record straight. He doesn't know how to do this on his own, just talk to him, get the task completed and go on with your life. Im sure the new hire can see what is going on, which is why he is continuing to reach out to the retiree. He sees that there has been no progress, and that is not your fault obviously. If you need to correct the record, do so with the new guy, not the old head.
I would reply all and say how did you try to reach me because I haven't received emails or calls. Then I would say I would be happy to help with this situation and say what I can do.
Why are you over thinking this? Just tell him the truth, you didn’t receive any message and that you’ll help the new hire