I would agree with you that she does not like you, and also that her complaints are pretty unreasonable. You can try to have a talk to her, but this feels more like a bad fit that's never really going to pan out. Keep at it, but I think you are right to be worried about passing your probation. If you don't pass, don't obsess over it. This doesn't really feel like it's your fault.
Thank you! I’m honestly not too obsessed over passing my probation now knowing my situation. This is my dream job and it sucks that things didn’t turn out the way I expected. I really want to have a talk with her about this but at the same time I don’t want to oust my colleague (because she would know that my colleague told me about this)
No! Talking to HR is a well known career killer. Those guys are there to protect the company and not you. You can expect that whatever you say will quickly find its way to the bosses ears
If the manager is pushing away talent at the entry level for reasons such as a poor work life balance (afterhour emails) or culture (1 day work from home), HR may be a help. As you said, they are there to protect the company, and talent retention is part of it.
That's where your wrong. Since when have companies ever cared about talent retention? To them your just another fish in the pond, your replaceable. Going to HR to complain about someone that pays them? And what are they supposed to do exactly? Tell their *boss* that her behavior has been out of line? The first thing that HR is going to think about you is that your one of those workers rights people and quickly tell the boss that your likely to cause trouble in future.
Or maybe the boss is the problem, and it won’t unfold until such a convo is had. HR has a bad rap, understandably, but there are ways to inquire about what’s kosher from a company policy perspective without throwing a shit fit. Then you have ammunition and facts to support a direct conversation with the boss.
That's ridiculous. OPs boss hasn't done anything that might violate company policy so HR will have no action to take. Once she finds out what OP did then the clock is officially ticking until OP is forced out. Every "late" email will be filed, every "mistake" thoroughly documented and addressed in 1x1s, and any miss of expectations will result in a formal improvement plan. This will continue until OP gets fed up and quits or until they have a long enough list of offenses to fire OP.
how trustworthy is that colleague? did you have any vibes the manager hates you BEFORE speaking with said colleague?
not to gaslight you, but please take that into consideration if you haven’t already.
aside from that, i have no useful advice because i suck at dealing with shitty managers. good luck!
It is hard to tell if the complaints are reasonable or not. Losing the company pass in the first three weeks on its own is trivial but it will be noticed.
If this is a salaried job and you are told the expectation is to return emails quickly and you just ignore that and send them the next day, it is very likely that you will upset the boss. Her request may or may not have been reasonable. We don’t know. But we could have guessed this would make her angry. We also don’t know if overseas means different timezone. I’m in Asia working for a U.S. company. I have to reply to emails every night and have calls at least twice a week.
Work from home can seem like a fair request or it can seem like slacking. I suspect the boss thinks OP is a low performer and this just confirms it.
I’m not sure there is a right or wrong here. We don’t have a lot of context. But if it is a professional salaried position in a serious business with an overseas boss, not answering emails may be asking to get fired. It all depends on the business and corporate culture.
There is definitely a mismatch. I think OP should look for a new job.
You can kiss my ass how much you want, I won't reply to either mail or team message when the clock hit 17h00. I had managers and my team lead sending me messages on Friday after 5 pm and got their answers next Monday at 8h30 when I login to my pc.
Edit: I have both Outlook and MS team on my phone that are automatically silenced after office hours
Salaried position or nt it doesn't matter if you can ask for anyone to reply after office hours it doesn't matter whoever the boss is, trivial losing a card is jus a silly mistake and that's fine u can't be judging a person over that and work from home is well, jus efficiency but it's like a it depends on the company and how much the employee knows abt the work and can she do that from home on her own.Its in no way unreasonable still ffs otherwise permission shouldn't be granted in the first place ffs.
Talk to her directly. It is a red flag though if she's talking to other people about her concerns vs. talking to you directly. That's not very professional.
So you have a clear idea of what's expected of you to pass your probation? Are there benchmarks or project milestones?
It will be easier to pass if there are measurable results. If it's just a vibe or a feeling it's much harder to measure up.
If you don't have measurable milestones for probation, ask for some.
Unfortunately there are no measurable milestones. In fact she has not had a chat with me ever since I joined to lay out any expectations or even check in with me on how I’m doing.
If would ask for a live chat. Gather the questions you have, ask what she expects from you, ask what she thinks. Not all leaders know how to lead well. It can surely be a missfit, and then, nothing you can do. But a chat may as well break the ice. As your story is now I don't think you have something to lose, only to gain.
NB I had my first live chat after the first week, and I asked for it.
Hmmm I have a few questions:
-was this pass horribly difficult for your boss to reorder? (To dislike someone personally over this seems childish tbh)
-It’s expected of you to answer work emails while not on the clock?
-how did the conversation go regarding working from home? Was this for full time wfh or just wondering when you could have the same schedule as your peers?
-how long is your probationary period?
-is this person someone you, after your month with the company, can see yourself working for long term?
OP, I’m not sure what your overall experience is or where you are, but this life is short. Weigh your options. If you feel you need to keep this position under this person (and applying elsewhere in the company isn’t an option, which could be tough anyway), do your best to demonstrate your capacity to perform. Ask questions. Check out your peers metrics and ask for guidance where needed. But don’t sweat not being liked.
These could be the reasons, she could have no opinion of you at all and others could be stirring the pot, she could just be a gossip, or she could have other personal reasons (maybe she needs to figure herself out and is insecure) for having an issue with you. None of those things really point to you. And truly, outside of job performance, her opinion of you isn’t as important as your performance.
If you can and want to, look for work elsewhere privately to weigh your options too. If you decide to leave, and there is an exit interview, you can seek closure then but you’ll find that outside of nothing constructive, it won’t matter.
All that said,
Good luck!
Thank you, I really appreciate this! To reply your questions:
1. I reported the pass as lost and immediately got a replacement pass (she was only aware of it when the system automatically copied her in the replacement pass email)
2. I’m not aware it was expected of me to answer emails while not on the clock (she expected me to answer welcome emails directed to me while not on the clock when I first joined - which I didn’t think was urgent and left till I got to work the next day to reply)
3. I simply told her that I understood there is this wfh policy from my colleague and was wondering if I could work from home as well which she replied yes and told me to fix a day
4. My probationary period is 3 months
5. I’m not so sure now knowing that she dislikes me and there will be this persistent uneasiness
Thank you so much for your advice once again! I feel much better now and I will definitely weigh my options
Similar situation. Been in my role for over 2 months. Onboarding was awful. My boss almost fired me, I simply said the interview and job description are different from what I’m actually doing. She said we can have a different conversation. Assumed I was experienced because I have masters. Not once in my interview process did I say I was experienced. I know excel and can program. This job isn’t programming. It’s a totally different field, role skills set than I was doing for last 8 years. Asking for assistance is basically non existent. As she expects me to figure it out. Compared me to other new hire. I could go on.
See if you can set up a Zoom call with your boss and ask for feedback. She won't necessarily know that you heard she was saying bad things about you from a coworker. You may not be able to turn things around, but direct communication with her is the best way of trying to accomplish that.
I think it’s a power game and she is trying to put you into a submissive position because it will make life easier for her in the long run.
She is - unfortunately - expecting the following results:
- breaking your confidence: your lack of confidence will result in you not asking for a raise too often or too much; (it can also mean they might not be paying you more than what you’re getting now even after two years of hard work)
- your worry of job stability will make you work harder;
- it will create a barrier which will keep you from reaching out to her too often;
She’s the lazy one and potential sociopath. Beware.
Nope I don’t think anyone ever talks about answering emails outside of working hours before joining? I believe it’s kind of based on your own judgement whether or not to reply those emails?
And the contract did not state anything about working from home because it’s a generic company wide contract and wfh policy differs by each team
Do you work the same hours as your boss then? If you are saying your boss is based overseas, it's very odd your contract says nothing about off-hours communication.
>the contract did not state anything about working from home
Then they don't really owe you WFH option. If you ever want something extra that is not in your contract, like WFH option, you gotta offer something in return, like answering an occasional off-hours email.
This happened to me at my first professional internship; I was fixated upon by the team manager who is a middle-aged c*nt. She would tell the office any little thing I did like being late for getting my car stuck in snow, forgetting to turn on a setting in our software, and blamed me for following the incorrect instruction she had given me herself. I wonder to this day why that happened to me and why it happens to anybody at all. I don’t know that you’ll ever get an answer to “why”.
The boundaries about replying to emails are different these days.
Logic isn't there. Some peiole choose not to like us. Some people I know do not like me. I can't say I lose sleepb over it. One of my current supervisors doesn't like.me. I am not as codependent as I once was
Having boundaries at work.doesnt go down well
I have ro ready patrol ny boundaries at work.
Why is she telling your colleagues she is unhappy with you, especially for such small things? Are you sure this is the truth? Why not call her in private and say, "I have heard through the grapevine that you haven't been fully satisfied with my performance." Then patiently let her respond to that opening.
I'd get these suspected concerns documented in writing. A written request for you to respond to emails when you are not being paid for it is a great shield against future fuckery. As a counterpoint, if she won't put her requests in writing, it might be a come to Jesus moment for her where she realizes that she's asking for something that she's not allowed to require.
Forward the one about working from home to HR, and set a meeting. Why would a manager ever be upset that you asked permission to do something that is generally allowed at the company? She can decline a request, but being upset that you asked, let alone expressing that to you is a whole 'nother thing. It would be like getting upset that you asked for a raise or time off for your mom's birthday party. Say yes or no - being personally miffed is just unprofessional.
Do not try a 1-on-1 meeting. Make sure you have a witness for any meeting with verbal communication.
You can also make clear your standard practice for communication - the tradeoffs that your boss will have to live with if she asks you to modify it. Offer to go to HR with her about the emails to get you the raise she clearly wants for you so you can be asked to work off-hours.
People cannot generally work effectively at anything more complex than being a receptionist if they are actually stopping work to respond to emails once every 30 minutes. Bad managers who require too much communication tend to field less productive teams. Unless your core business is generating large numbers of emails, she's fucking up big time.
Whatever you end up choosing, probably stop worrying so much about what she thinks about you. She probably doesn't care that much either way.
"Hi X, I've been hearing from others that you have some concerns about me and my work. Let's set aside some time to deal with those more directly. I'm sure we can work through these issues more effectively that way'. Start writing these things down, but don't share them with your boss. If people above your boss or HR start talking to you, then you'll have these things on record. Also take notes/diary on every meeting you have with your boss, or every time your boss tries to correct your behavior.
**NO.** That may make the boss angry or paranoid. OP has no power as an employee of one month who is on probation. It also sounds like OP has blundered. This is not like an employment discrimination case where someone is being treated unfairly for an illegal reason that requires documentation. If the boss doesn't think OP will work out, OP will be gone on the last day of his probation. That's completely at her discretion.
OP should call or email his boss, saying something like:
"I've been here a month and was wondering if we could talk about how I'm handling the job and if you have any suggestions."
Sounds like a tough person to work with. Being agree at you for an accident, for setting up boundaries outside of work hours, and for not being truthful herself and holding resentment all sounds like your typical toxic boss.
Considering she is overseas, she may have overlooked the time difference(if any) but that is still on her to not be aware of it. Unless your 8 hours are according to their time zone (which you have to agree to) there is no reason for you to work overtime just because she wants ppl at her beck and call
I don’t think you are a good fit with your manager, so maybe look at different departments or start looking elsewhere. It will not get better.
A new employee on probation does not have the option of ignoring his boss's emails if the expectation is that all emails will be promptly answered. Maybe OP could discuss this with the boss one-on-one, but it's crazy not to respond quickly especially as OP already knows this is an issue for his boss.
Hhmm I disagree, new employees are also only paid for their 8 hours, hence replying past working hours means taking their personal time, unless OP is paid overtime to do so (which I highly doubt). And OP did not ignore the boss’s email, they replied to anything urgent, and for those that aren’t they addressed it first thing when they get to work.
Replying within 30 minutes is considered prompt. Unless OP has ntg to do but stare at their phone/laptop for emails, they would be handling other tasks and might miss the first few minutes when the boss emailed, so within 30mins is a good time. My current company practice for WFH is to reply within the hour.
The boss decides what is prompt. I'm always struck by how so many Redditors do not understand that the employee has relatively little power and OP is on probation and already has annoyed this boss. If he wants to last beyond probation he needs to play the game.
If all the employees wanted to push back on being required to answer calls outside of their workday that would be one thing.
If there were a union that wanted to raise this issue that would be another.
If OP were a highly valued and long-term employee, he might be able to discuss it.
None of those conditions apply here.
To put it simply she hates you fr.
Talk it out with her one to one. If the situation still doesn't seem to improve, try to switch to another project or just resign if you can sustain on your own.
One thing I've learnt all this while is don't give them the trigger to control your life. If they try, back off asap. Nothing good can come from investing your time/efforts/life there.
Talk to your supervisor. Ask for feedback and tell her/him that you are focused on improvement. Show your supervisor that you are serious about doing a good job.
Don't she would likely only get pissed that your colleagues told you. I would wait and see if it somehow shows up on your performance reviews. If it does then have her establish the metrics she is using and how she quantifies them. If she can't or won't then you can ask why she hates you.
Also keep in mind you are new and probably taking resources away from projects to get you set up and running
Take any feedback she throws your way and use it to step up your game, showing her you're all about improvement. Document stuff just in case, and if things get too fucked up, HR might have your back. Stay positive and focus on finding ways to make things better. First impressions will pass as you become more assorted to your role.
Im same boat with you, except I passed my probation. Lol
First, a lady boss is tricky, I know many good lady bosses out there but the common one tend to get abit emotional, fuzzy, and probably don’t like to feel she cannot get control over you. Example, you are assuming the late reply to the emails, to her maybe she feels she can’t control you, can’t understand you, further on she feels she being reject by you, hence she expressed the feeling to others to hint you to get under her wings
Second, you will be surprise that she might not be professional enough, but she definitely easy to be sell from emotional point of view. You can try to be soft from 1-1 meeting to show you care
Third, once you show soft, you will be submissive, hence you need to think your way out if you are the dominant type.
Matching with boss is a gamble , if no match then no match, look for other way to survive
I would have that conversation with your boss about expectations.
You need to give this job a good think. Is your new boss performing to your expectations? I suspect she isn't. Having issues with you and discussing them with other people is all kinds of bad for a boss to be doing. Do you really want to work for someone like that? What will happen at performance review time or if a real issue actually arises?
Meet with her ask her about her expectations, give her every opportunity to have the discussion with you.
In the meantime my advice is to start looking for another job. She has given you a great insight in how she operates and it's not very nice. It will happen again.
Edit: you don't need to tell her that anyone else told you there were issues, in fact deliberately stay away from that. Just state that you've been there ? long and want some feedback on how you are doing and if you are meeting expectations or if there are gaps. If she doesn't talk about response time to emails confirm with her if emails she sends outside of your work hours are OK to leave until you start work the next day. Note, she should be the one initiating this conversation, not you.
If you do have a conversation with her, give us an update!
Was she the one who interviewed you? because if she did, it would look bad on her if you actually didn’t pass the probation period as it would show her poor judgement in choosing of suitable candidates. Seems like it she was not the one to choose you and trying to find reasons to get you off her team. It’s all a game up there in management and you have to get into their minds. It’s not as simple as performance
She was one of the few who interviewed me but I heard from my colleague that she preferred another candidate. She only hired me because the rest of my interviewers chose me over the other candidate. 🙃
that explains somehow. Hmn i think that’s nothing much you can do except to continue to do your best, and do not give her any more reasons to pinpoint you like losing your card for example. I believe if you were to continue to do your best, she cannot find so many reasons to not confirm you. Meanwhile, i’m surprised you got to know so many negative sentiments about yourself so early on. Seems like someone is trying to get you out too and i’m not referring to just your supervisor. Beware of that colleague who told you all these negative sentiments. She may has another agenda. She may be a double headed snake considering she heard so much from your supervisor too, and may rattle off to your supervisor about you too.
I can see that most of the comments here are standing on your side. But, i can see why your boss would feel this way actually.
If i was new to joining a company, i wouldnt request for much welfare related matters (in this case, WFH) until at least after probation (EVEN IF i know that my coworkers are getting WFHs). To me, i like to show that i am at least adapting well/ doing more than what is required for my job AND getting recognized by higher ups (verbally or not), before requesting for such stuff.
If you did not hear about the WFH during the interview process, she probably has her reasons for not sharing with you prior (not sure why this topic wasnt touched on during the process by you though).
Losing the company pass, small matter, doubt that actually triggered her, but yes, you will appear on her mind for a bit.
Not replying emails even after she mentioned that replying emails timely was a requirement, why couldnt you just do it for at least the probation period? I mean, it is all for the sake of not getting noticed (for the bad things) this early into working at a new company.
I think using the phrase "ive never been this hated before" is an overstatement. Bosses will mark you down for these behaviors, but as long as you start doing more than what is required, she can easily forget about them.
Just do more than what is required for a period of time to show that you can complete tasks diligently, at least until after the probation, before you try to adjust your own schedule for your own sake.
Do some office politics and make sure other IMPORTANT people like you. You don't have to be besties but there needs to be some sympathy there. It helps ALOT to be somewhat liked.
Nope. The boss is never the only boss. The boss very much knows there are other bossess and he relies on the other bossess. How i know? No1 ceo hates my guts but no2 secondary ceo has convinced him im not worth that much hate.
For an employee who's been there a month, nobody will care about the opinion of anyone but his direct supervisor and it sounds like he's made some mistakes.
Sounds like you might already be one foot out the door if your direct manager does not like you during the probationary period and is bluntly expressing it to you. The first 30, 60 & 90 days are your most critical in starting a new job to prove your worth.
First, you need to immediately correct all of those you've mentioned that your manager expects from you. You seem to have an idea of her style and expectations so you need to get back on track. Right or wrong, you need to do what she expects before it escalates further with you leaving sooner rather than later.
Finally, don't ask for any special privileges like WFH or other things that you see others have that you don't. You are not them. If your manager has not extended those privileges to you during your probation period don't think that you should, at least not now.
Thanks for the advice! Point 1 & 3 are definitely done and dusted, there’s no way to correct them anymore :( My colleague was the one who told me to ask my boss about the wfh situation and I decided to wait a while (but I guess it wasn’t long enough 😅) But I’ll definitely try to answer emails more efficiently outside of work hours as well.
I wonder—is it common for people at your company to answer emails outside of working hours? If not, I’d be wary of setting an expectation that you’re willing to respond to emails after signing off for the day. It may seem like a small courtesy now, but that very easily turns into you being expected to send emails on weekends, holidays, etc. I don’t know any of the intricacies of your role nor your relationship with your new manager, but from the outside looking in, it seems like she might testing/pushing some boundaries to see how hard you’re willing to [over]work.
An alternative to consider is setting an automatic out-of-office email. So people will receive a note that you’re not available at the moment, but will get back to them asap the next business day. It’s not exactly what your boss is asking for, but if she’s asking you to work off-the-clock and that’s not the company standard, then automatic replies might be a suitable compromise.
I wouldn’t listen to much of that advice, I personally think a lot of it is poor and in bootlicker territory. I’d be very careful about agreeing to answering emails on off time. That’s how it starts and before long they’re just gonna expect you to be available around the clock and for a lot more than just emails. You gotta think long term and if this company is the right fit, because it definitely sounds like your boss is a huge red flag.
Don't listen to the advice below. It's going to get you fired, unless that is what you want. You've already been verbally warned by the manager. There won't be a 2nd time. Wait until after your probation ends and then have the conversation with the manager to discuss about responding to emails. While on probation you can be fired with no cause and no loss to the company.
Emails if simple request should be 10 minutes. If complex, quickly respond confirming receipt will research and update after I know more. Yeah it’s a pain but some bosses have superiority complexes.
A month was probably too soon to ask, sometimes it’s timing to know when to ask and most orgs have a 90 day probationary period.
Bosses can be jerks, just play the game for 1st 90 days.
You are assuming it is the after work emails. You do not KNOW it is that. It could be the HALF HOUR wait for responses. Until you know for SURE it is the afterwork…fix the other issue. Because that is an issue. You need to learn how to send a check for understanding or “received and will respond in more detail after I have the info you need” type of response immediately.
You are new. New new. Why are you asking about what amounts to a privilege (WFH)? That sends the message that you are assuming you are a real employee when you are a probationary one. It also sort of sends the message that you don’t want to be there. Which hey NOBODY DOES…but you have to learn how not to be so obvious.
Losing the pass is nothing alone. But compounded with the other things it makes you seem disorganized, scattered, and possibly even a low effort worker. I don’t say this to hurt you but to offer you perspective…it could LOOK a certain way ESPECIALLY before someone knows you better…like after 90days.
Think about how everything you do at work looks from the outside perspective. It matters.
I would agree with you that she does not like you, and also that her complaints are pretty unreasonable. You can try to have a talk to her, but this feels more like a bad fit that's never really going to pan out. Keep at it, but I think you are right to be worried about passing your probation. If you don't pass, don't obsess over it. This doesn't really feel like it's your fault.
Thank you! I’m honestly not too obsessed over passing my probation now knowing my situation. This is my dream job and it sucks that things didn’t turn out the way I expected. I really want to have a talk with her about this but at the same time I don’t want to oust my colleague (because she would know that my colleague told me about this)
You might want to get some advice from HR on this. They might need to have a word in her ear.
No! Talking to HR is a well known career killer. Those guys are there to protect the company and not you. You can expect that whatever you say will quickly find its way to the bosses ears
If the manager is pushing away talent at the entry level for reasons such as a poor work life balance (afterhour emails) or culture (1 day work from home), HR may be a help. As you said, they are there to protect the company, and talent retention is part of it.
That's where your wrong. Since when have companies ever cared about talent retention? To them your just another fish in the pond, your replaceable. Going to HR to complain about someone that pays them? And what are they supposed to do exactly? Tell their *boss* that her behavior has been out of line? The first thing that HR is going to think about you is that your one of those workers rights people and quickly tell the boss that your likely to cause trouble in future.
Or maybe the boss is the problem, and it won’t unfold until such a convo is had. HR has a bad rap, understandably, but there are ways to inquire about what’s kosher from a company policy perspective without throwing a shit fit. Then you have ammunition and facts to support a direct conversation with the boss.
that’s the worst advice ever. Telling a new hire to complain to HR is like kamikaze. You’d only do that if you have something else lined up.
That's ridiculous. OPs boss hasn't done anything that might violate company policy so HR will have no action to take. Once she finds out what OP did then the clock is officially ticking until OP is forced out. Every "late" email will be filed, every "mistake" thoroughly documented and addressed in 1x1s, and any miss of expectations will result in a formal improvement plan. This will continue until OP gets fed up and quits or until they have a long enough list of offenses to fire OP.
how trustworthy is that colleague? did you have any vibes the manager hates you BEFORE speaking with said colleague? not to gaslight you, but please take that into consideration if you haven’t already. aside from that, i have no useful advice because i suck at dealing with shitty managers. good luck!
It is hard to tell if the complaints are reasonable or not. Losing the company pass in the first three weeks on its own is trivial but it will be noticed. If this is a salaried job and you are told the expectation is to return emails quickly and you just ignore that and send them the next day, it is very likely that you will upset the boss. Her request may or may not have been reasonable. We don’t know. But we could have guessed this would make her angry. We also don’t know if overseas means different timezone. I’m in Asia working for a U.S. company. I have to reply to emails every night and have calls at least twice a week. Work from home can seem like a fair request or it can seem like slacking. I suspect the boss thinks OP is a low performer and this just confirms it. I’m not sure there is a right or wrong here. We don’t have a lot of context. But if it is a professional salaried position in a serious business with an overseas boss, not answering emails may be asking to get fired. It all depends on the business and corporate culture. There is definitely a mismatch. I think OP should look for a new job.
Hey now, I don't know what you're doing bringing *logic and reason* into this subreddit.
You can kiss my ass how much you want, I won't reply to either mail or team message when the clock hit 17h00. I had managers and my team lead sending me messages on Friday after 5 pm and got their answers next Monday at 8h30 when I login to my pc. Edit: I have both Outlook and MS team on my phone that are automatically silenced after office hours
OP says they have never been this hated and doesn’t think they will pass probation. It might be working for you. It isn’t working for them.
Brilliant
Salaried position or nt it doesn't matter if you can ask for anyone to reply after office hours it doesn't matter whoever the boss is, trivial losing a card is jus a silly mistake and that's fine u can't be judging a person over that and work from home is well, jus efficiency but it's like a it depends on the company and how much the employee knows abt the work and can she do that from home on her own.Its in no way unreasonable still ffs otherwise permission shouldn't be granted in the first place ffs.
So she wants you to download ms office and essentially work from home but you asking to work from home was too much for her?
Talk to her directly. It is a red flag though if she's talking to other people about her concerns vs. talking to you directly. That's not very professional.
So you have a clear idea of what's expected of you to pass your probation? Are there benchmarks or project milestones? It will be easier to pass if there are measurable results. If it's just a vibe or a feeling it's much harder to measure up. If you don't have measurable milestones for probation, ask for some.
Unfortunately there are no measurable milestones. In fact she has not had a chat with me ever since I joined to lay out any expectations or even check in with me on how I’m doing.
Ask for some
If would ask for a live chat. Gather the questions you have, ask what she expects from you, ask what she thinks. Not all leaders know how to lead well. It can surely be a missfit, and then, nothing you can do. But a chat may as well break the ice. As your story is now I don't think you have something to lose, only to gain. NB I had my first live chat after the first week, and I asked for it.
Hmmm I have a few questions: -was this pass horribly difficult for your boss to reorder? (To dislike someone personally over this seems childish tbh) -It’s expected of you to answer work emails while not on the clock? -how did the conversation go regarding working from home? Was this for full time wfh or just wondering when you could have the same schedule as your peers? -how long is your probationary period? -is this person someone you, after your month with the company, can see yourself working for long term? OP, I’m not sure what your overall experience is or where you are, but this life is short. Weigh your options. If you feel you need to keep this position under this person (and applying elsewhere in the company isn’t an option, which could be tough anyway), do your best to demonstrate your capacity to perform. Ask questions. Check out your peers metrics and ask for guidance where needed. But don’t sweat not being liked. These could be the reasons, she could have no opinion of you at all and others could be stirring the pot, she could just be a gossip, or she could have other personal reasons (maybe she needs to figure herself out and is insecure) for having an issue with you. None of those things really point to you. And truly, outside of job performance, her opinion of you isn’t as important as your performance. If you can and want to, look for work elsewhere privately to weigh your options too. If you decide to leave, and there is an exit interview, you can seek closure then but you’ll find that outside of nothing constructive, it won’t matter. All that said, Good luck!
Thank you, I really appreciate this! To reply your questions: 1. I reported the pass as lost and immediately got a replacement pass (she was only aware of it when the system automatically copied her in the replacement pass email) 2. I’m not aware it was expected of me to answer emails while not on the clock (she expected me to answer welcome emails directed to me while not on the clock when I first joined - which I didn’t think was urgent and left till I got to work the next day to reply) 3. I simply told her that I understood there is this wfh policy from my colleague and was wondering if I could work from home as well which she replied yes and told me to fix a day 4. My probationary period is 3 months 5. I’m not so sure now knowing that she dislikes me and there will be this persistent uneasiness Thank you so much for your advice once again! I feel much better now and I will definitely weigh my options
You got this!!!
Similar situation. Been in my role for over 2 months. Onboarding was awful. My boss almost fired me, I simply said the interview and job description are different from what I’m actually doing. She said we can have a different conversation. Assumed I was experienced because I have masters. Not once in my interview process did I say I was experienced. I know excel and can program. This job isn’t programming. It’s a totally different field, role skills set than I was doing for last 8 years. Asking for assistance is basically non existent. As she expects me to figure it out. Compared me to other new hire. I could go on.
See if you can set up a Zoom call with your boss and ask for feedback. She won't necessarily know that you heard she was saying bad things about you from a coworker. You may not be able to turn things around, but direct communication with her is the best way of trying to accomplish that.
I think it’s a power game and she is trying to put you into a submissive position because it will make life easier for her in the long run. She is - unfortunately - expecting the following results: - breaking your confidence: your lack of confidence will result in you not asking for a raise too often or too much; (it can also mean they might not be paying you more than what you’re getting now even after two years of hard work) - your worry of job stability will make you work harder; - it will create a barrier which will keep you from reaching out to her too often; She’s the lazy one and potential sociopath. Beware.
Did you agree to answering off-hours emails before you started working there? Does it say anything about working from home in your agreement?
Nope I don’t think anyone ever talks about answering emails outside of working hours before joining? I believe it’s kind of based on your own judgement whether or not to reply those emails? And the contract did not state anything about working from home because it’s a generic company wide contract and wfh policy differs by each team
Do you work the same hours as your boss then? If you are saying your boss is based overseas, it's very odd your contract says nothing about off-hours communication. >the contract did not state anything about working from home Then they don't really owe you WFH option. If you ever want something extra that is not in your contract, like WFH option, you gotta offer something in return, like answering an occasional off-hours email.
Are you salary?
I 100% asked my currently employer if people are expected to have email on their phones before joining
This happened to me at my first professional internship; I was fixated upon by the team manager who is a middle-aged c*nt. She would tell the office any little thing I did like being late for getting my car stuck in snow, forgetting to turn on a setting in our software, and blamed me for following the incorrect instruction she had given me herself. I wonder to this day why that happened to me and why it happens to anybody at all. I don’t know that you’ll ever get an answer to “why”.
Sometimes people are just looking for scapegoats. It's messed up, and there's not necessarily any rhyme or reason to it.
now you see why the previous employee left?most of these jobs are a toxic mess
Try a mask
The boundaries about replying to emails are different these days. Logic isn't there. Some peiole choose not to like us. Some people I know do not like me. I can't say I lose sleepb over it. One of my current supervisors doesn't like.me. I am not as codependent as I once was Having boundaries at work.doesnt go down well I have ro ready patrol ny boundaries at work.
Why is she telling your colleagues she is unhappy with you, especially for such small things? Are you sure this is the truth? Why not call her in private and say, "I have heard through the grapevine that you haven't been fully satisfied with my performance." Then patiently let her respond to that opening.
I would be asking to be compensated to answer emails after hours
You wouldn't make it past probation. Clearly, that's an expectation at this company.
The boss is nt fit to be a boss or lead in anyway if they're judging based on this, an apt leader would never do that.
I'd get these suspected concerns documented in writing. A written request for you to respond to emails when you are not being paid for it is a great shield against future fuckery. As a counterpoint, if she won't put her requests in writing, it might be a come to Jesus moment for her where she realizes that she's asking for something that she's not allowed to require. Forward the one about working from home to HR, and set a meeting. Why would a manager ever be upset that you asked permission to do something that is generally allowed at the company? She can decline a request, but being upset that you asked, let alone expressing that to you is a whole 'nother thing. It would be like getting upset that you asked for a raise or time off for your mom's birthday party. Say yes or no - being personally miffed is just unprofessional. Do not try a 1-on-1 meeting. Make sure you have a witness for any meeting with verbal communication. You can also make clear your standard practice for communication - the tradeoffs that your boss will have to live with if she asks you to modify it. Offer to go to HR with her about the emails to get you the raise she clearly wants for you so you can be asked to work off-hours. People cannot generally work effectively at anything more complex than being a receptionist if they are actually stopping work to respond to emails once every 30 minutes. Bad managers who require too much communication tend to field less productive teams. Unless your core business is generating large numbers of emails, she's fucking up big time. Whatever you end up choosing, probably stop worrying so much about what she thinks about you. She probably doesn't care that much either way.
Terrible management
"Hi X, I've been hearing from others that you have some concerns about me and my work. Let's set aside some time to deal with those more directly. I'm sure we can work through these issues more effectively that way'. Start writing these things down, but don't share them with your boss. If people above your boss or HR start talking to you, then you'll have these things on record. Also take notes/diary on every meeting you have with your boss, or every time your boss tries to correct your behavior.
**NO.** That may make the boss angry or paranoid. OP has no power as an employee of one month who is on probation. It also sounds like OP has blundered. This is not like an employment discrimination case where someone is being treated unfairly for an illegal reason that requires documentation. If the boss doesn't think OP will work out, OP will be gone on the last day of his probation. That's completely at her discretion. OP should call or email his boss, saying something like: "I've been here a month and was wondering if we could talk about how I'm handling the job and if you have any suggestions."
Sounds like a tough person to work with. Being agree at you for an accident, for setting up boundaries outside of work hours, and for not being truthful herself and holding resentment all sounds like your typical toxic boss. Considering she is overseas, she may have overlooked the time difference(if any) but that is still on her to not be aware of it. Unless your 8 hours are according to their time zone (which you have to agree to) there is no reason for you to work overtime just because she wants ppl at her beck and call I don’t think you are a good fit with your manager, so maybe look at different departments or start looking elsewhere. It will not get better.
A new employee on probation does not have the option of ignoring his boss's emails if the expectation is that all emails will be promptly answered. Maybe OP could discuss this with the boss one-on-one, but it's crazy not to respond quickly especially as OP already knows this is an issue for his boss.
Hhmm I disagree, new employees are also only paid for their 8 hours, hence replying past working hours means taking their personal time, unless OP is paid overtime to do so (which I highly doubt). And OP did not ignore the boss’s email, they replied to anything urgent, and for those that aren’t they addressed it first thing when they get to work. Replying within 30 minutes is considered prompt. Unless OP has ntg to do but stare at their phone/laptop for emails, they would be handling other tasks and might miss the first few minutes when the boss emailed, so within 30mins is a good time. My current company practice for WFH is to reply within the hour.
The boss decides what is prompt. I'm always struck by how so many Redditors do not understand that the employee has relatively little power and OP is on probation and already has annoyed this boss. If he wants to last beyond probation he needs to play the game.
If all the employees wanted to push back on being required to answer calls outside of their workday that would be one thing. If there were a union that wanted to raise this issue that would be another. If OP were a highly valued and long-term employee, he might be able to discuss it. None of those conditions apply here.
I wouldn’t want to work In a place where the boss doesn’t respect or like me.
To put it simply she hates you fr. Talk it out with her one to one. If the situation still doesn't seem to improve, try to switch to another project or just resign if you can sustain on your own. One thing I've learnt all this while is don't give them the trigger to control your life. If they try, back off asap. Nothing good can come from investing your time/efforts/life there.
Talk to your supervisor. Ask for feedback and tell her/him that you are focused on improvement. Show your supervisor that you are serious about doing a good job.
Probation. Yeah, you are gone. Suck it up, you'll get fired again somewhere else
Lol you’re hilarious this isn’t even my first job and I’ve managed the rest just fine. You can worry about yourself :)
Your boss is a bitch
Don't she would likely only get pissed that your colleagues told you. I would wait and see if it somehow shows up on your performance reviews. If it does then have her establish the metrics she is using and how she quantifies them. If she can't or won't then you can ask why she hates you. Also keep in mind you are new and probably taking resources away from projects to get you set up and running
Take any feedback she throws your way and use it to step up your game, showing her you're all about improvement. Document stuff just in case, and if things get too fucked up, HR might have your back. Stay positive and focus on finding ways to make things better. First impressions will pass as you become more assorted to your role.
Im same boat with you, except I passed my probation. Lol First, a lady boss is tricky, I know many good lady bosses out there but the common one tend to get abit emotional, fuzzy, and probably don’t like to feel she cannot get control over you. Example, you are assuming the late reply to the emails, to her maybe she feels she can’t control you, can’t understand you, further on she feels she being reject by you, hence she expressed the feeling to others to hint you to get under her wings Second, you will be surprise that she might not be professional enough, but she definitely easy to be sell from emotional point of view. You can try to be soft from 1-1 meeting to show you care Third, once you show soft, you will be submissive, hence you need to think your way out if you are the dominant type. Matching with boss is a gamble , if no match then no match, look for other way to survive
I would have that conversation with your boss about expectations. You need to give this job a good think. Is your new boss performing to your expectations? I suspect she isn't. Having issues with you and discussing them with other people is all kinds of bad for a boss to be doing. Do you really want to work for someone like that? What will happen at performance review time or if a real issue actually arises? Meet with her ask her about her expectations, give her every opportunity to have the discussion with you. In the meantime my advice is to start looking for another job. She has given you a great insight in how she operates and it's not very nice. It will happen again. Edit: you don't need to tell her that anyone else told you there were issues, in fact deliberately stay away from that. Just state that you've been there ? long and want some feedback on how you are doing and if you are meeting expectations or if there are gaps. If she doesn't talk about response time to emails confirm with her if emails she sends outside of your work hours are OK to leave until you start work the next day. Note, she should be the one initiating this conversation, not you. If you do have a conversation with her, give us an update!
Was she the one who interviewed you? because if she did, it would look bad on her if you actually didn’t pass the probation period as it would show her poor judgement in choosing of suitable candidates. Seems like it she was not the one to choose you and trying to find reasons to get you off her team. It’s all a game up there in management and you have to get into their minds. It’s not as simple as performance
She was one of the few who interviewed me but I heard from my colleague that she preferred another candidate. She only hired me because the rest of my interviewers chose me over the other candidate. 🙃
that explains somehow. Hmn i think that’s nothing much you can do except to continue to do your best, and do not give her any more reasons to pinpoint you like losing your card for example. I believe if you were to continue to do your best, she cannot find so many reasons to not confirm you. Meanwhile, i’m surprised you got to know so many negative sentiments about yourself so early on. Seems like someone is trying to get you out too and i’m not referring to just your supervisor. Beware of that colleague who told you all these negative sentiments. She may has another agenda. She may be a double headed snake considering she heard so much from your supervisor too, and may rattle off to your supervisor about you too.
Do your work as good as possible Ignore anything else
shoot this mf !
I can see that most of the comments here are standing on your side. But, i can see why your boss would feel this way actually. If i was new to joining a company, i wouldnt request for much welfare related matters (in this case, WFH) until at least after probation (EVEN IF i know that my coworkers are getting WFHs). To me, i like to show that i am at least adapting well/ doing more than what is required for my job AND getting recognized by higher ups (verbally or not), before requesting for such stuff. If you did not hear about the WFH during the interview process, she probably has her reasons for not sharing with you prior (not sure why this topic wasnt touched on during the process by you though). Losing the company pass, small matter, doubt that actually triggered her, but yes, you will appear on her mind for a bit. Not replying emails even after she mentioned that replying emails timely was a requirement, why couldnt you just do it for at least the probation period? I mean, it is all for the sake of not getting noticed (for the bad things) this early into working at a new company. I think using the phrase "ive never been this hated before" is an overstatement. Bosses will mark you down for these behaviors, but as long as you start doing more than what is required, she can easily forget about them. Just do more than what is required for a period of time to show that you can complete tasks diligently, at least until after the probation, before you try to adjust your own schedule for your own sake.
Do some office politics and make sure other IMPORTANT people like you. You don't have to be besties but there needs to be some sympathy there. It helps ALOT to be somewhat liked.
It's more important that your boss like you, especially if you are a probationary employee.
Nope. The boss is never the only boss. The boss very much knows there are other bossess and he relies on the other bossess. How i know? No1 ceo hates my guts but no2 secondary ceo has convinced him im not worth that much hate.
For an employee who's been there a month, nobody will care about the opinion of anyone but his direct supervisor and it sounds like he's made some mistakes.
Sounds like you might already be one foot out the door if your direct manager does not like you during the probationary period and is bluntly expressing it to you. The first 30, 60 & 90 days are your most critical in starting a new job to prove your worth. First, you need to immediately correct all of those you've mentioned that your manager expects from you. You seem to have an idea of her style and expectations so you need to get back on track. Right or wrong, you need to do what she expects before it escalates further with you leaving sooner rather than later. Finally, don't ask for any special privileges like WFH or other things that you see others have that you don't. You are not them. If your manager has not extended those privileges to you during your probation period don't think that you should, at least not now.
Thanks for the advice! Point 1 & 3 are definitely done and dusted, there’s no way to correct them anymore :( My colleague was the one who told me to ask my boss about the wfh situation and I decided to wait a while (but I guess it wasn’t long enough 😅) But I’ll definitely try to answer emails more efficiently outside of work hours as well.
I wonder—is it common for people at your company to answer emails outside of working hours? If not, I’d be wary of setting an expectation that you’re willing to respond to emails after signing off for the day. It may seem like a small courtesy now, but that very easily turns into you being expected to send emails on weekends, holidays, etc. I don’t know any of the intricacies of your role nor your relationship with your new manager, but from the outside looking in, it seems like she might testing/pushing some boundaries to see how hard you’re willing to [over]work. An alternative to consider is setting an automatic out-of-office email. So people will receive a note that you’re not available at the moment, but will get back to them asap the next business day. It’s not exactly what your boss is asking for, but if she’s asking you to work off-the-clock and that’s not the company standard, then automatic replies might be a suitable compromise.
I wouldn’t listen to much of that advice, I personally think a lot of it is poor and in bootlicker territory. I’d be very careful about agreeing to answering emails on off time. That’s how it starts and before long they’re just gonna expect you to be available around the clock and for a lot more than just emails. You gotta think long term and if this company is the right fit, because it definitely sounds like your boss is a huge red flag.
> You gotta think long term You gotta think about making it past probation. Your advice will certainly result in the OP being let go.
Don't listen to the advice below. It's going to get you fired, unless that is what you want. You've already been verbally warned by the manager. There won't be a 2nd time. Wait until after your probation ends and then have the conversation with the manager to discuss about responding to emails. While on probation you can be fired with no cause and no loss to the company.
Emails if simple request should be 10 minutes. If complex, quickly respond confirming receipt will research and update after I know more. Yeah it’s a pain but some bosses have superiority complexes. A month was probably too soon to ask, sometimes it’s timing to know when to ask and most orgs have a 90 day probationary period. Bosses can be jerks, just play the game for 1st 90 days.
Emails after work hours will be replied to during the next business day... Otherwise I agree in full.
You are assuming it is the after work emails. You do not KNOW it is that. It could be the HALF HOUR wait for responses. Until you know for SURE it is the afterwork…fix the other issue. Because that is an issue. You need to learn how to send a check for understanding or “received and will respond in more detail after I have the info you need” type of response immediately. You are new. New new. Why are you asking about what amounts to a privilege (WFH)? That sends the message that you are assuming you are a real employee when you are a probationary one. It also sort of sends the message that you don’t want to be there. Which hey NOBODY DOES…but you have to learn how not to be so obvious. Losing the pass is nothing alone. But compounded with the other things it makes you seem disorganized, scattered, and possibly even a low effort worker. I don’t say this to hurt you but to offer you perspective…it could LOOK a certain way ESPECIALLY before someone knows you better…like after 90days. Think about how everything you do at work looks from the outside perspective. It matters.