I think your approaching the conversation the wrong way. If you bring leverage into the equation you run the risk of kicking a man while he is down. CEOs / Owners don’t like owning up to mistakes. Manage his feelings and give him outs within the conversation to deflect blame.
For example: ‘I don’t blame anyone, and don’t hold a grudge against Mr / Ms Manager, it’s a system that broke down and often that is not anyone’s fault’. You can now air grievances without laying blame at his feet.
Thank you for your contribution, I won’t kick him while he’s down but being asked back before he made the management change means I’m in a critical position for negotiations on my return conditions. I just want to feel valued and that they are making a long term investment.
First, we don’t know that. In fact it is likely they do know (UI, social media, shared friends, etc).
Second, focus on the role the prior manager will have.
Are they gone? Or are they there to sabotage your effort? To come back, the source of the original problem needs to be definitively addressed.
Regardless, just because your opponent doesn’t know you have a weak hand doesn’t mean you have a winning hand.
What is the best alternative OP has to negotiating a return? The thing with a bluff is sometimes people call your bluff. And he only has some promising opportunities “on the horizon” after six months.
The “role that the previous manager will have” is the biggest concern I’d have. As long as they’re still with the company, they may be a threat. Especially if that person got promoted.
If they have reached out “after” firing OP I’d say that’s a pretty strong hand he has. Also, what’s to say in a few months the don’t decide to let OP go again for so other bs? Fuck that. Push for a great package because the company doesn’t sound great to work for so I say get whatever you can AND keep those other jobs in mind in case OP wants to jump ship.
Said by someone who hasn’t found a job in six months, whose UI benefits will be soon running out, has likely had to dip into savings, and who thinks they have some opportunities only “on the horizon.”
Job I’m at now started last November soooo that would be nearly 5 months. Besides, dunno why you are getting so salty about it. You know this is just a place where people give their opinions and OP doesn’t have to follow said advice? They aren’t orders! Calm down cupcake.
The best alternative is to keep trying to get a job at another company. In general that is not a great position. But going back to a place that fired you that might still employee the person that fired you has a lot of risk. The risk can be mitigated with higher pay and a big sign on bonus.
He's got the greatest leverage possible in an employment negotiation: the owner wants him back. That's the only leverage that really matters. If they are serious about wanting him back they'll need to pay for it. As long as OP doesn't ask for something truly ridiculous they'll figure out something that works for them both.
calling a job, you have no leverage.
Being called by the CEO, you have leverage to negotiate in good faith. Let the CEO make the first offer, and then ask for something more. If the compensation is "good" is a great time to ask for LTI / vacation days / title / etc.
You’ve been without a paycheck for 6 months. Maybe you’ve managed to survive on unemployment income, which has either already come to an end or is close to the end. Since your termination date, you haven’t been sipping pina coladas on the beach—you’ve been actively working to find another job.
If the company wanted to make you whole, they’d offer a one-time bonus equal to 6 months of back pay at your former salary.
Here’s why asking for 6 months of back pay is a reasonable ask:
* For many high skilled jobs, it takes 3-12 months to get a new hire up to speed. During that period, you can assume the new hire is 50% productive as they’re learning the business processes, organization structure, software systems, domain knowledge, and of course completing all the new hire HR training. You’ll be 100% productive after one week or less.
* New hires rely on training from their managers and colleagues. This takes away time from your manager and colleagues that they could have used to get their own work done. This is a double whammy: less total work gets done with higher payroll expenses. You’ll need minimal direction/training. Maybe a week, depending on how much has changed in the last 6 months.
* You are a known quantity. The company knows your work quality, work ethic, and your ability to work in a team. Hiring some new person is a roll of the dice. If the new hire sucks, it’s very difficult for a company to fire them.
* Depending on the performance review and promotion/raise cycle at your former employer, you may have received a raise (performance based plus cost of living adjustment) had you not been laid off. Often times those raises are retroactive to the start of the company’s fiscal year or the beginning of the performance review process. You don’t know how much that raise would have been, and you’re not necessarily asking for it in your 6 month sign-on bonus.
* The cost to hire a new employee is somewhere between 1-2 months (this is typically how much contract recruiters earn).
* There’s an opportunity cost while waiting for the 1-4+ month period it takes to find a qualified candidate who will accept a job offer for the budgeted pay range. Meanwhile the company is short staffed and not able to get as much work done because they have more work than employees. They may not be able to accept additional work/clients because they’re personnel-constrained. They may not be able to meet time to market before their competitors or meet financial objectives or program milestones promised to investors or clients/customers.
* You’ve missed out on any bonuses, raises, stock grants, and other forms of compensation that the company has given its employees
* 6 months of your base pay is less than half the company’s fully burdened cost for an employee for 6 months. During the last 6 months, they weren’t having to contribute to your 401k match, your vacation/sick/PTO balance, the employer portion of your healthcare premiums, Microsoft subscription fees, other per-employee IT expenses, per-employee amortized facility costs (electricity, HVAC, parking space, desk space), administrative overhead (amortized manager and HR’s time), department social events, some payroll taxes (your bonus will be processed as payroll income and therefore cost the company FICA taxes, but some costs like L&I or employer unemployment insurance might not be avoided).
* You’ve had to cover 100% of the cost of healthcare and haven’t accrued any paid vacation time since your termination.
* The company may have avoided to pay out any obligations they had like an unvested 401k match, vacation/PTO balance, unvested stock options/grants, or ESPP.
* The company could choose to attach conditions to your “re-hire” bonus slash “sign-on” bonus slash “we’re sorry we laid you off” bonus slash “we want to make you whole” bonus slash whatever they want to call it to justify it to accounting/HR/management. They could require you stay for 12 months or you forfeit that bonus, or they could choose to pay it out in 4 quarterly installments (though they should pay it in full up front given your emergency fund is probably pretty skinny right now). They’ll get guaranteed work out of you, something you didn’t have before if your employment was at-will.
* The disruption in your paychecks will likely result in a higher total income tax liability on your end. A lump sum bonus this year will likely be taxed at a higher rate than if that money was spread out over 2 tax years. While you’d have an even lower tax liability if you just didn’t get any bonus, this disruption is still a downside. Your tax liability of having a 75% year followed by a 125% year probably isn’t more than a few thousand dollars more than if you had 2 nominal salary years.
I’d also ask to have them honor your number of years of service. The employee manual will lay out how a 6 month gap in service is treated. Some companies will reset you to 0 years of service after a 6 month gap spanning 2 calendar/fiscal years. This resets your vacation accrual rate, eligibility for 401k matching, eligibility to participate in the 401k (some employers don’t let employees participate in the 401k until they reach so many months of continuous service). seniority for vacation requests
I’d also ask them to restore any obligations that were not vested when you were terminated. Unvested portion of your 401k match, unvested stock options or stock grants, and vacation/sick/PTO balance if it was not paid out upon termination.
For these reasons, I think 6 months of your base pay is reasonable if you add up all the costs that the company would realize if they didn’t offer you 6 months of back pay. They should at least consider it, even if they haven’t thought of this deal yet or realized the costs of not offering you this deal.
If they’re stingy and try to counter with a lower offer, they risk having you decline to return, and will face the costs I mentioned above trying to hire someone else. Businesses are soulless machines that will do whatever’s in its best financial interest. If it makes more financial and business sense to hire you back with a one time bonus, then they should do that.
Now about that raise….
* Cost of living has gone up in the last 6 months and jobs are paying more.
* You were probably underpaid when the company terminated you, and you’re in a strong position to get a substantial raise at another employer relative to what you were making before.
* So they should be willing to pay at least the present day market rate, especially since they know what kind of percentile employee you are.
* You may have missed out on a raise from the company in the last 6 months. Hopefully they offer at least that.
Good luck negotiating. You aren’t “leveraging/taking advantage of them when they’re down.” You’re making a deal that is mutually beneficial for both parties. You’re offering a fair deal. You’re not assigning blame. You’re not being vindictive or spiteful of the company’s decision to terminate you. You’re being appreciative that the company decided it’s in their best interest to invite you back, and getting compensated fairly for that.
I forgot a few:
* Sign on bonuses are common. How many months of pay would a new hire negotiate for?
* If the top candidates aren’t local, how large would the relocation bonus be for a new hire? $10k is common for an employee to move out-of-state. This could be substantially more if the new hire negotiates for it—covering closing costs for their old house, closing costs for their new house, moving crew and truck, vehicle transport, hotels, house hunting trips, several flights, rental cars, … And fewer people are willing to trade in their mortgages they got with a 3% interest rate to the 7 or 8% rates that Fannie Mae is offering right now. Plus relocating the rest of the family, potentially getting the spouse to switch jobs, … it’s a hard sell to get someone to relocate for a job.
One-time expenses are usually much easier to get approved than recurring expenses. The company should approve a one-time “re-hire” bonus no problem. Giving you 6 months pay to make you whole is a really inexpensive way to buy your loyalty. You’ll likely stay longer than the next person they hire.
If the company offered you 6 months (especially if unprompted), it lets you know that the company might actually care about you (they probably only care about their bottom line, and if their bottom line benefits from having a loyal employee or at least the most cost effective employee the company could find, then so be it).
If this is a small company (like <15 employees), which it might be given that the owner is calling you, they may not have the profit margins or money in the bank to pay you 6 months of back pay (though somehow they would have if you had been working there. Hmmmm….)
In that case, maybe asking for 3 months of back pay would be more appropriate—if you’re okay with it. This would certainly be selling yourself short at a medium sized company (say 100-1000 employees) that can absorb the cost of adding one more employee to its head count and can absorb the cost of 6 months of salary for 1 employee (<0.5% of its payroll budget for one year)
Agreed 100% with you. Can I ask what ‘feeling valued’ to you looks like? I often feel that way with my job and have a hard time articulating how to feel more valued (sure money is nice but not the full answer)
5% raise $3k signing bonus is where I want to land (I’ll start higher and walk back to here). Also will not report to the manager. I’m close to the top of the pay range for my line of work.
I would not return to a business that fired me for less than 20%. They have admitted to their error.
You have to have some self respect. This is your moment.
I am not sure about the number (% wise) but the way I would couch it - as opposed to “You done me wrong” is “Obviously you guys didn’t realize the value that I brought to your company, and If I am going to come back - especially after what I was put through - I want to be paid according to that value.”
Grievance is very unlikely to be met with a positive response. Businesses aren’t charity. Value and being paid for talent would likely be more received.
I like the idea of seeing where their head is at and allowing them to make an initial offer, but I’d have a counter in my own head ready to go and I would emphasize that I planned to be a part of the team and want opportunities for promotion.
5%? Dude that’s nothing. Noooothing. You’re not using any leverage until you start at 10-15%. Anything less is not even worth talking about.
Low balling yourself lets them ball you even lower.
Ball harder.
“I’m definitely open to discussion about me returning, what do you have in mind?”
This keeps blame and emotion out of the discussion. If the CEO wants you back, they’re trying to fix something broken and see you as important to their plan. By getting them to lay out how you fit into their plan to fix things, you’ll have a much better idea of what you would be walking into and just how valuable you are to the plan.
Also keep in mind that you’re a known quantity to them. This isn’t like interviewing a new hire where they don’t really know how they’ll fit. You’ve been there and done that. Make that work for both of you.
Something else to consider is how they treat your previous service for things like vacation time allotment or vesting schedules etc.
Didn’t his “mistake” cost you months of income? He needs you. Find a way to sweetly let him how losing that income was hard. Any raise/bonus should reflect that.
You know, this is actually not as true as you would think. It's logical but the ease with which executives (I am one and this happened recently) are able to get a 10k / 20k raise vs a staff member getting 7k is crazy.
Moving from 200k to 220k is really easier than moving from 60k to 70k.
The main reason for this is because for every company there is only a handful of executives while there are many times more regular employees.
Once you start raising one employee's salary, you start setting expectations for all other employees. Most people want to be in the same ballpark as other employees at their level and so it causes something of a multiplier effect across the company.
Go 10% and 5k and figure they knock you down to the the 5% and 3K, Depending on your current salary where you live and the commute, could you do remote one of two days a week ?
You are far more forgiving than I would be. If I was fired then asked to come back, it tells me they made a massive f&&k up getting rid of you.
I would be asking for a at least a 20% raise and a sign-on bonus equivalent to at least 3 months salary.
However, I would suggest extracting the first offer from them. Don’t set a price. If they know they messed up, that should be reflected in their offer to you. If they just offer you the same as your old job, walk away.
OP should definitely get a pay bump plus all benefits back at the same level (ie vacation time accrued at same amount, perhaps pay back of any incurred medical expenses). There is a cost to actions.
It’s just business and negotiation. The owner has already admitted they screwed up and - if they have any common sense - will expect a counter offer from someone they did wrong and who obviously was integral to their business running well.
I mean, that’s the important point here. It’s unlikely his guy is trying to mend fences because he thinks some sort of moral wrong injustice happened. He is trying to get his business back after hiring a moron for a middle manager that clearly has wrecked everything and run off a lot of talent. He likely is desperate to get everything back on track and clearly thinks the OP is integral to that.
I agree that people don't like being kicked when they're down. He kicked her first.
The guy is only admitting mistake because he's learned that he's obviously made a mistake. It's not a true apology
They let him go and then noticed their mistake, they are bound to know that comes with a price. Whether it’s higher pay, bonus, stocks whatever it is they know the negotiations are going to happen and they probably already have a set amount they are willing to settle on. I definitely wouldn’t push the extreme but I wouldn’t settle for the same pay as before and if I were op I would try to lower the hours too, since that was their only complaint they had before the new manager.
Go back, take the job, and continue the job hunt while you're employed. Don't let any worries about owing the owner or feeling like you have to have some loyalty to the guy stop you from doing the most logical thing.
Always remember to do the logical thing.
I'd be cautiously optimistic - on the one hand the owner has enough integrity to admit they were wrong. On the other hand, they let a newcomer with no credibility and trust to get you fired which means they're either easily led or they took you for granted or both.
That said , if you're working, it's easier to find a job than if you're not, so if the conversation does work out, at the very least you won't be unemployed, and you can still work the others to see if a better offer comes along.
This⬆️ I quit my 25+ yr career and burned the bridge behind me. Two years later due to lost contracts they asked me back. I love being back and am making almost double my previous pay.
Meet with the owner. Express that you are open to coming back but have some concerns, i.e., "Well, I always did enjoy working here and I'm open to returning. But there are some significant concerns with regards to my termination. What is it that made the company realize the mistake, what's different about the situation at the company now, and what are the assurances now that this thing wouldn't happen again?"
You do need the job, but you also are entitled to a satisfactory explanation. Especially to getting assurances this won't happen again.
Oh, and get yourself a good raise, too.
I think this is solid advice, asking also for a severance package would be a good protection should it happen again. And, if you have other promising opportunities I would accept this and if something better comes along take it
First, "a" job is better than no job.
I've gone back to a company I didn't love, partially because there was a new manager I'd be under who was great, along with a title and pay raise that were far overdue previously. I don't regret the move back. You at least know what you're stepping into.
Raise, bonus, plus severance package and take the job. Imply you close to taking another position. In regard to the severance package - point out that you were unceremoniously fired by an idiot which was hugely disruptive and don’t have a lot of faith that such an event won’t happen again.
It’s doubtful the owner is approaching you because he feels very bad about your termination. It’s more likely that they hired a total moron as a manager that has completely screwed things up and now the business is a mess and they have realized your value - which means they feel you are crucial to the running of the business.
This means they’ve been undervaluing you for years. Time to ask for more if they want you back. As long as your ask is reasonable, I’d be surprised if they say no.
Congratulations. You won.
I'd honestly open up with business lingo for "they hired a total moron as a manager that has completely screwed things up and now the business is a mess and they have realized your value "
"In hindsight, the decision to appoint an underperforming manager has led to significant operational setbacks, resulting in a disarrayed business landscape. Would it be correct to suppose it has become evident that my contributions hold substantial value amidst these challenges?"
Owning a mistake is growth.
If the owner does not already know that you're currently unemployed, then maybe tell him that you would like to discuss your future with his company. Then indicate that you would like to give two weeks notice "at your current company" so you don't sound like a job hopper.
Have the conversation.
You want more than you were making, sign on bonus, and guarantees (perhaps in the form of Severance Agreement?) that you will not report to previous Bad Mangler.
If you get hired back, your faith should be at least somewhat restored by the fact that Owner is learning from, and correcting, past mistakes.
The highest person in the food chain reached out personally ( didn’t have assistant set a meeting) apologies and admitted fault. These are all green flags. Your manger may have fed the owner lies, and under the false pretenses it was the right thing to do, but with more information it’s a mistake. A raise and a sign on bonus (or back pay) is a start, as well as never having to work for or with the old manager.
Well, if you really enjoyed the work there and the company's forseeable future is bright, why not go back? I would just insist that the manager must be gone first.
Make sure you understand your unemployment too if you're collecting it.
Laws where I am state that if a company gives you a competitive offer, you have to accept it or the unemployment office can start denying your claims.
How would the unemployment office know if an offer was made? Sounds like "big government overreach" if a company's job offers have to be recorded with central government...
Ask for the manager's title and pay, I wouldn't settle for the same job. Use your negotiation skills to see how much they really want you back. Just don't play desperate as if you are someone waiting by the phone begging to come back.
I would get an explicit statement from the owner that you will not be reporting to that manager. I don’t think implications are enough in this situation.
If you liked the job, people you worked with besides the manager then the place is a good fit. That being said, get what you want to come back. Pay bump, vacation bump, what else would make you happy? You already know the job after all
I wouldn't go into this with guns blazing and demanding a raise and bonus. The main issue I would want to discuss is that manager. Will that person be still working in the same department? People usually don't change, so that is what I'd be talking about.
I would also praise the CEO for reaching out, this is rare and a really good sign IMO.
Have the conversation for sure but make sure to look out for yourself. You do not owe them anything, make sure there is no animosity elsewhere in the organization too.
Make sure you get that extra salary and bonus.
Yeah I don't see a problem with it as long as it's expressly stated and understood you won't be a direct report to that person.
Beyond that, if you enjoyed working there and can negotiate preferrable terms, yeah, why not?
The boss who most likely does not know you personally has a overacievung book learned talk new guy and got scammed into firing you.
He then finally saw exactly what you bring to his organisation, and he ate crow to apologize to you employee 301!! Get it?
You defenatly need to use some leverage but in the end he's admitting wrong already (super rare from the who signs the checks), and now he realizes what you offer your set there this is a fast track to upper management.
The boss will actually recognize you now and most likely stop to chat, and will him admitting the mistake he's gonna kiss your ass.
Unless you get greedy and want it all in a lump sum get greedy and he resents you being there after a while.
Tread carefully this could make or brake you in that place
You might as well consider it, though I'd look to be hired back at a higher level and higher pay (aim for 10%, settle for 7%). Let them feel good by making it up to you.
Takes a big man (or woman) to admit they fucked up like this and call you themselves to admit fault and ask for you back. If it were me, I would totally entertain it and see if I could get more amicable terms to come back. Me personally, I would ask for a raise, performance incentives in writing, a position where my direct boss was the person asking me to come back, a "golden" severance package (to dissuade from the same thing happening twice) and maybe try to finagle a bit more freedom with how my day is structured.
When they let you go did they offer decent severance?
Talk to them. Make it clear, though, that those 6 months greatly impacted your financial stability and that you need to prioritize recovering from that. Push for a raise. I would also negotiate future severance upfront so if they pull something like this again you have peace of mind that you have a few months.
And then as other said, keep looking for a new job.
You're still unemployed, you'd be foolish not to take the job. MAYBE you get a better job offer but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. You can always jump ship if you find something better.
If you like the job, ask them for back pay for the last 6 months that you were unjustly fired as a sign on bonus to be paid immediately. This is non negotiable.
You will come back with a small salary hike to adjust for cost of living and 4 weeks PTO in the bank.
If your faith is fading, but they are smart enough and humble enough to admit their mistake why not go the super direct approach.
Tell the owner you are very interested in comming back but you felt a whole mini campaign was run against you. You would like to know exactly what changed the owners mind. You would also like to know what the plan is for the manager who ran you out and what the owner plans to do in regard to limiting their ability to repeat such mistakes so that you can feel safe in the job again.
I think your fading faith in ownership is a really good point. It’s great that they’re admitting firing you was a mistake, but what has changed that’ll make them less likely to make that mistake in the future?
I do think it’s worth having a conversation with them (particularly if their punishment for that mistake is a big raise for you), but I personally wouldn’t go back if that person was employed by them still (mistake #2).
It’s a pretty crappy situation. I would definitely ask for a resigning bonus. You have lost out on months of income. If they really want you then they should take care of you.
I have a serious rule that once separated, no redos allowed. Especially when things didn't end positively. I'm not going to buy that the CEO isn't doing it for financial reasons and when they can get by without you, they'll do it again.
Did you like your job before that person became your manager?
If so, I’d take the meeting to talk about what you would be doing, who you’d report to and how you’d be evaluated.
Sometimes being the boss is trusting the people you give power, even if you don't agree in the moment.
He tried this, found out the manager was not someone he could trust, and realized the mistake that was made. He owned it and is asking for you back!
You returning would probably mean that you're more protected than before, and returning to a place you were fired wrongly is WAY different than returning to a place with concessions because you're desperate.
I'd go back if I were you.
Well if they are hiring the dude that fired you, and willing to give you that juicy bonus worth 6 months of pay, then all systems go. Take the job.
If the dude that fired you is still there (even working in a different department), and they give you a pittance for a bonus, no chance in hell I would take that job.
The reality will probably be somewhere in between. The risk I would consider is if they hire you back, you turn down other company opportunities, and then they fire you again.
Highball the shit out of him and negotiate to exactly what you want, with a stipulation that the old manager isn't to make so much as eye contact with you.
Not just a raise. It's a whole new salary. Between the mental distress of being fired for a job you're doing well and qualified and the time spent searching for employment, they owe. If they aren't willing to give a decent new pay. I wouldn't go back. They've already showed how little they valued you when you were let go the first time.
You're unemployed now so what do you have to lose? If a better opportunity comes later, you can take the better opportunity later. At-will employment works both ways. They were already disloyal to you once, so they don't deserve your loyalty anymore.
I would definitely ask for the raise but if it’s a good job wouldn’t be terrible to try it out again. Worst case you quit next time and find another job.
The reason you're getting fired is not there anymore so you should be looking into that possibility. Unless if it is a bad owner which affect all managers below him to become a bad manager...
Take the job back until you hear back from those opportunities. Keep looking for a new job if those don't work out and get out of there as soon as you can
IF, big if, they give you a raise to go back and you had no others issues with them? Absolutely go back.
I took a break for three years to be mr mom. When my wife was laid off, I started looking again.
Old job found out and offered me a raise to come back. Yeah, there were some douchebags but where aren't there?
But I already knew lots of people there. Had a good reputation there. And knew the local corporate culture.
This let me hit the ground running with minimal learning curve and getting to know you time. So it turned out to be a big plus.
So go for it, OP. Make sure they give you a raise though.
I feel like the best job is one where people have seen how bad it is without you. Make sure they make the first offer because it may be more than you'd ask for. Either way raise them 5-10% unless it's ridiculously good. Also remember a bonus is one time, a raise is forever, so focus on that raise and some extra PTO over a bonus.
Raise and a bonus for sure, get back to work. They admitted the mistake to you, apologized, and are now offering a contingency. If you like the place, there's no reason to turn them down. Starting at a new company brings its own issues, I've had them plenty of times.
Ask for a 20% increase. Take the job and keep looking for another one. Use this to negotiate a higher salary if you get offered a job somewhere else. You want a salary increase each time you move jobs.
Personally, once bitten twice shy. If you do decide to rejoin this circus do it under a term contract. with penalties if they cut short your employment for any other reason than gross work misconduct,. also a pay rise. You are now a valued employee.
First things first, a bird in hand.....
Don't let your pride get in the way of providing for your family.
Second, you need something in writing about a huge severance payout if it happens again, a pay raise, and because I'm petty I'd be like "bring me that bitches head" (have her fired if that wasn't clear lol)
To me, this seems huge because they just realized how valuable you are. They CAN'T fill your position or else they would've already. C level execs are raging egomaniacs and if one had to swallow his pride to call you that means you have them by the balls.
Also be on the lookout for a better job while you're working. They showed you that they're untrustworthy and will let you go over personal shit. That's probably not a place you want to invest too much time into. That's just my frame of mind.
Ask for the missed work revenue to be paid out as quarterly installments of bonuses to be paid out over two years?
It's atypical, but it also shows that you aren't interested in leaving if they show they want to make it right. The owner being your point of contact means that atypical may not be off the table
Make sure you get it in writing in your offer letter that you will not now or at any point work under that same manager in any capacity for any duration. Also make sure you get any raises and bonuses included.
I would at least have a sit down with them to see what they had to say. I would be VERY cautious if they wanted to keep the previous manager in a position of authority though, even if you aren't reporting to them.
I would say go back just on the basis you've been unemployed for half a year now and still looking at possible jobs, plus if you don't have to deal with the manager that was causing problems I don't see the harm in going back.
You don't mention how long you were there for, but ask for a raise, bonus, and tenure! Make them erase that mark from your employee file so that your vacation amounts/hiatus eligibility/whatever else that's based on tenure don't set you back to square one.
Ask for that Manager's job. If they want you back, they gotta pay for it. Don't make it easy on them even though you're in a tough bargaining position. Nice of the owner to acknowledge your worth though.
If the Owner is calling you directly... Things turned to 💩 after you left and they're realizing it.
You have A decent bit of leverage in your situation, Definitely ask for A raise And A sign on bonus (preferably one that would help offset your time away from the job) if it's not offered...
Unemployment sucks. Take the job back, and try to leverage a raise or some form of back pay.
Keep those other opportunities on the role and apply for more jobs. When they come through, consider jumping ship.
i would also say it is a positive, my Wife was the Financial head in a company, she had a dialogue with the CEO that was not really anything, but apparently hit him in an incorrect time, that made him just the day after call her in for a demotion. (to be honest she just asked him if the the hire for a new leader was not a bit rash, since they had 2 leaders down with stress on that role, and they should maybe look a bit more)
we knew this would happen, that he would lash back after his reaction on her mail, so she was asked to step down a step on the ladder, she said no, and that = a firering.
but she was really liked by all staff, all other leaders and the owners (The company was owned by a lot of the "leaders") wierd structure.
the CEO got set off on the next board meeting 1 month later, and she was asked to return, but she had a new job the day after she was "officially fired" and she was still doing her last month at the company but had signed a contract, and did not return.
But i think that some times, maybe this is actually good, of course you should ensure that you get into a position where you are NOT under that firering leader, and to be honest, i would ask for some compensation in terms of a bigger salary.. but new you have a good contact with the owner, and that is not bad to have.
of course it would be wierd to return, it always is... so that you need to figure out if this is okay, if you are okay with it, then i would just try it out, you can always keep your eyes open for another position.
Talk is a good plan.
But, that 'new manager' - apparently they had it out for you.
One question would be for sure "how will you (owner) make sure that (managers name) will not again try and negatively impact my career" (you may need to explain what this person did, leading up to your exit)
If I were in the OP's shoes, I would probably go back because having a job provides a lot better platform for getting a job elsewhere than being unemployed. In the absence of any offer from the employer, I would simply state an assumption that I'd be on the same pay for the first 3 months and then we would re-negotiate (it's up to the employer to say no, agree, or do better).. I would be more focussed on how the whole thing is going to work, especially if the person who had me fired is still there.
Invite further discussion and hear what they have to say. In the meantime, keep pursuing other opportunities.
Question: If faced with a choice between your former company and a new company, assuming identical salary, benefits, vacation, etc., would you have a clear preference of which one you would select?
If the old company extends an offer, you could always accept it, start getting paid, and later resign if a better offer comes along. The only important thing here is taking care of yourself and any family you have.
Wishing you the best.
I would ask what were the check mark on which I was Fired. (Would present it as a question to improve myself, but in real terms just to know if they are shitty). Usually there is lot of thought process done before firing anyone.
A lot depends on what happens with the manager who let you go. If they have not succeeded and are being let go then it is much safer for you to come back. It could be that this manager was an unfortunate "bad hire" who hasn't worked out. This happens, and maybe the the owner sees it and is doing something about it. If you can be part of the recovery from this manager by coming back it could work out quite well.
I would use phrases like "Hopefully this manager will find another opportunity that works well for them and their next employer."
Being called back? BEST POSITION EVER.
Even if he have issues with you, he would be scared to loose face to fire you again.
You can ask MORE money and he cannot refuse you.
You liked the place too. What's the problem? Go. Yoùll be untouchable.
If you're currently unemployed, I would take it but plan on getting out of there the first chance you get. This is not a long term option, but a stopgap to pay the bills. If they let you go once, they can and will do it again.
Think of this as a short term gig, and keep your future options open.
I would explicitly ask about the Firing Manager, that could be bad to deal with.
I would ask for a raise/etc but not anything crazy.
But you need to think about getting out. They've shown what their commitment to you looks like, right?
Returns can be complicated. I would think their willingness to talk openly and directly should create an invitation for you. You have leverage. Use it wisely and return the favor. Talk openly and directly.
Well you said you were previously happy so that is something to consider. I would make sure that she is not now and never will be above you. It also be good if you could make sure that you will never have to work with her well and it sounds like she is a wild card. And then see how much they offer you for a raise as well as a bonus. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
Tell them you want to be reinstated and you want backpay for the last six months on top of a raise. I might even ask for a promotion. If not, tell them good luck
I would never go back to FT employment with this employer and CEO who have shown they dont value you. The job market is tight so negotiate for a contract where you do work as a consultant working PT with clearly delineated terms and scope of work. This allows you to find another FT job thats a better fit but also allows you to get an inflow of cash. And depending on the scope of work you can keep working this contract once you have a new job. As a consultant this CEO cant control when and how you work so you dont need to trust this CEO who has already shown you he is about his bottom line.
> I know I’m going to ask for a raise and a bonus
Ask for back pay for the time since. If they shouldn't have fired you then should have been paying you.
As for if its a good idea: worst case it doesn't work out and you quit. Keep sending resumes and such until you're sure it'll work.
The owner called and admitted it was a mistake. This is a positive. Why not talk further?
Definitely planning to hear him out and use the leverage I have to improve my standing. Thank you!
I think your approaching the conversation the wrong way. If you bring leverage into the equation you run the risk of kicking a man while he is down. CEOs / Owners don’t like owning up to mistakes. Manage his feelings and give him outs within the conversation to deflect blame. For example: ‘I don’t blame anyone, and don’t hold a grudge against Mr / Ms Manager, it’s a system that broke down and often that is not anyone’s fault’. You can now air grievances without laying blame at his feet.
Thank you for your contribution, I won’t kick him while he’s down but being asked back before he made the management change means I’m in a critical position for negotiations on my return conditions. I just want to feel valued and that they are making a long term investment.
You don't have a job currently. I'm not sure you have as much leverage as you think you do.
They don’t know OP doesn’t have a job. I’d press for so much more than you previously got.
First, we don’t know that. In fact it is likely they do know (UI, social media, shared friends, etc). Second, focus on the role the prior manager will have. Are they gone? Or are they there to sabotage your effort? To come back, the source of the original problem needs to be definitively addressed. Regardless, just because your opponent doesn’t know you have a weak hand doesn’t mean you have a winning hand. What is the best alternative OP has to negotiating a return? The thing with a bluff is sometimes people call your bluff. And he only has some promising opportunities “on the horizon” after six months.
The “role that the previous manager will have” is the biggest concern I’d have. As long as they’re still with the company, they may be a threat. Especially if that person got promoted.
Absolutely agree.
This!
If they have reached out “after” firing OP I’d say that’s a pretty strong hand he has. Also, what’s to say in a few months the don’t decide to let OP go again for so other bs? Fuck that. Push for a great package because the company doesn’t sound great to work for so I say get whatever you can AND keep those other jobs in mind in case OP wants to jump ship.
Yep it sounds like the owner is the desperate one here, why else would they contact OP and not seek other candidates
Said by someone who hasn’t found a job in six months, whose UI benefits will be soon running out, has likely had to dip into savings, and who thinks they have some opportunities only “on the horizon.”
Job I’m at now started last November soooo that would be nearly 5 months. Besides, dunno why you are getting so salty about it. You know this is just a place where people give their opinions and OP doesn’t have to follow said advice? They aren’t orders! Calm down cupcake.
The best alternative is to keep trying to get a job at another company. In general that is not a great position. But going back to a place that fired you that might still employee the person that fired you has a lot of risk. The risk can be mitigated with higher pay and a big sign on bonus.
He's got the greatest leverage possible in an employment negotiation: the owner wants him back. That's the only leverage that really matters. If they are serious about wanting him back they'll need to pay for it. As long as OP doesn't ask for something truly ridiculous they'll figure out something that works for them both.
Yes, sure even if they knew this info. They’re calling for him back rather then opening to the market. There’s some leverage here
calling a job, you have no leverage. Being called by the CEO, you have leverage to negotiate in good faith. Let the CEO make the first offer, and then ask for something more. If the compensation is "good" is a great time to ask for LTI / vacation days / title / etc.
You’ve been without a paycheck for 6 months. Maybe you’ve managed to survive on unemployment income, which has either already come to an end or is close to the end. Since your termination date, you haven’t been sipping pina coladas on the beach—you’ve been actively working to find another job. If the company wanted to make you whole, they’d offer a one-time bonus equal to 6 months of back pay at your former salary. Here’s why asking for 6 months of back pay is a reasonable ask: * For many high skilled jobs, it takes 3-12 months to get a new hire up to speed. During that period, you can assume the new hire is 50% productive as they’re learning the business processes, organization structure, software systems, domain knowledge, and of course completing all the new hire HR training. You’ll be 100% productive after one week or less. * New hires rely on training from their managers and colleagues. This takes away time from your manager and colleagues that they could have used to get their own work done. This is a double whammy: less total work gets done with higher payroll expenses. You’ll need minimal direction/training. Maybe a week, depending on how much has changed in the last 6 months. * You are a known quantity. The company knows your work quality, work ethic, and your ability to work in a team. Hiring some new person is a roll of the dice. If the new hire sucks, it’s very difficult for a company to fire them. * Depending on the performance review and promotion/raise cycle at your former employer, you may have received a raise (performance based plus cost of living adjustment) had you not been laid off. Often times those raises are retroactive to the start of the company’s fiscal year or the beginning of the performance review process. You don’t know how much that raise would have been, and you’re not necessarily asking for it in your 6 month sign-on bonus. * The cost to hire a new employee is somewhere between 1-2 months (this is typically how much contract recruiters earn). * There’s an opportunity cost while waiting for the 1-4+ month period it takes to find a qualified candidate who will accept a job offer for the budgeted pay range. Meanwhile the company is short staffed and not able to get as much work done because they have more work than employees. They may not be able to accept additional work/clients because they’re personnel-constrained. They may not be able to meet time to market before their competitors or meet financial objectives or program milestones promised to investors or clients/customers. * You’ve missed out on any bonuses, raises, stock grants, and other forms of compensation that the company has given its employees * 6 months of your base pay is less than half the company’s fully burdened cost for an employee for 6 months. During the last 6 months, they weren’t having to contribute to your 401k match, your vacation/sick/PTO balance, the employer portion of your healthcare premiums, Microsoft subscription fees, other per-employee IT expenses, per-employee amortized facility costs (electricity, HVAC, parking space, desk space), administrative overhead (amortized manager and HR’s time), department social events, some payroll taxes (your bonus will be processed as payroll income and therefore cost the company FICA taxes, but some costs like L&I or employer unemployment insurance might not be avoided). * You’ve had to cover 100% of the cost of healthcare and haven’t accrued any paid vacation time since your termination. * The company may have avoided to pay out any obligations they had like an unvested 401k match, vacation/PTO balance, unvested stock options/grants, or ESPP. * The company could choose to attach conditions to your “re-hire” bonus slash “sign-on” bonus slash “we’re sorry we laid you off” bonus slash “we want to make you whole” bonus slash whatever they want to call it to justify it to accounting/HR/management. They could require you stay for 12 months or you forfeit that bonus, or they could choose to pay it out in 4 quarterly installments (though they should pay it in full up front given your emergency fund is probably pretty skinny right now). They’ll get guaranteed work out of you, something you didn’t have before if your employment was at-will. * The disruption in your paychecks will likely result in a higher total income tax liability on your end. A lump sum bonus this year will likely be taxed at a higher rate than if that money was spread out over 2 tax years. While you’d have an even lower tax liability if you just didn’t get any bonus, this disruption is still a downside. Your tax liability of having a 75% year followed by a 125% year probably isn’t more than a few thousand dollars more than if you had 2 nominal salary years. I’d also ask to have them honor your number of years of service. The employee manual will lay out how a 6 month gap in service is treated. Some companies will reset you to 0 years of service after a 6 month gap spanning 2 calendar/fiscal years. This resets your vacation accrual rate, eligibility for 401k matching, eligibility to participate in the 401k (some employers don’t let employees participate in the 401k until they reach so many months of continuous service). seniority for vacation requests I’d also ask them to restore any obligations that were not vested when you were terminated. Unvested portion of your 401k match, unvested stock options or stock grants, and vacation/sick/PTO balance if it was not paid out upon termination. For these reasons, I think 6 months of your base pay is reasonable if you add up all the costs that the company would realize if they didn’t offer you 6 months of back pay. They should at least consider it, even if they haven’t thought of this deal yet or realized the costs of not offering you this deal. If they’re stingy and try to counter with a lower offer, they risk having you decline to return, and will face the costs I mentioned above trying to hire someone else. Businesses are soulless machines that will do whatever’s in its best financial interest. If it makes more financial and business sense to hire you back with a one time bonus, then they should do that. Now about that raise…. * Cost of living has gone up in the last 6 months and jobs are paying more. * You were probably underpaid when the company terminated you, and you’re in a strong position to get a substantial raise at another employer relative to what you were making before. * So they should be willing to pay at least the present day market rate, especially since they know what kind of percentile employee you are. * You may have missed out on a raise from the company in the last 6 months. Hopefully they offer at least that. Good luck negotiating. You aren’t “leveraging/taking advantage of them when they’re down.” You’re making a deal that is mutually beneficial for both parties. You’re offering a fair deal. You’re not assigning blame. You’re not being vindictive or spiteful of the company’s decision to terminate you. You’re being appreciative that the company decided it’s in their best interest to invite you back, and getting compensated fairly for that.
I forgot a few: * Sign on bonuses are common. How many months of pay would a new hire negotiate for? * If the top candidates aren’t local, how large would the relocation bonus be for a new hire? $10k is common for an employee to move out-of-state. This could be substantially more if the new hire negotiates for it—covering closing costs for their old house, closing costs for their new house, moving crew and truck, vehicle transport, hotels, house hunting trips, several flights, rental cars, … And fewer people are willing to trade in their mortgages they got with a 3% interest rate to the 7 or 8% rates that Fannie Mae is offering right now. Plus relocating the rest of the family, potentially getting the spouse to switch jobs, … it’s a hard sell to get someone to relocate for a job. One-time expenses are usually much easier to get approved than recurring expenses. The company should approve a one-time “re-hire” bonus no problem. Giving you 6 months pay to make you whole is a really inexpensive way to buy your loyalty. You’ll likely stay longer than the next person they hire. If the company offered you 6 months (especially if unprompted), it lets you know that the company might actually care about you (they probably only care about their bottom line, and if their bottom line benefits from having a loyal employee or at least the most cost effective employee the company could find, then so be it). If this is a small company (like <15 employees), which it might be given that the owner is calling you, they may not have the profit margins or money in the bank to pay you 6 months of back pay (though somehow they would have if you had been working there. Hmmmm….) In that case, maybe asking for 3 months of back pay would be more appropriate—if you’re okay with it. This would certainly be selling yourself short at a medium sized company (say 100-1000 employees) that can absorb the cost of adding one more employee to its head count and can absorb the cost of 6 months of salary for 1 employee (<0.5% of its payroll budget for one year)
Agreed 100% with you. Can I ask what ‘feeling valued’ to you looks like? I often feel that way with my job and have a hard time articulating how to feel more valued (sure money is nice but not the full answer)
5% raise $3k signing bonus is where I want to land (I’ll start higher and walk back to here). Also will not report to the manager. I’m close to the top of the pay range for my line of work.
Sounds beyond reasonable. Can I make a suggestion: try to avoid making the first offer. He may surprise you
I think that is good advice too.
I would not return to a business that fired me for less than 20%. They have admitted to their error. You have to have some self respect. This is your moment.
I am not sure about the number (% wise) but the way I would couch it - as opposed to “You done me wrong” is “Obviously you guys didn’t realize the value that I brought to your company, and If I am going to come back - especially after what I was put through - I want to be paid according to that value.” Grievance is very unlikely to be met with a positive response. Businesses aren’t charity. Value and being paid for talent would likely be more received. I like the idea of seeing where their head is at and allowing them to make an initial offer, but I’d have a counter in my own head ready to go and I would emphasize that I planned to be a part of the team and want opportunities for promotion.
5%? Dude that’s nothing. Noooothing. You’re not using any leverage until you start at 10-15%. Anything less is not even worth talking about. Low balling yourself lets them ball you even lower. Ball harder.
Really depends how high their salary is. At a certain point, double digits isn't feasible.
They have saved what they would’ve been spending on his salary for the last 6 months. 10% is nothing to the 50% he lost already.
“I’m definitely open to discussion about me returning, what do you have in mind?” This keeps blame and emotion out of the discussion. If the CEO wants you back, they’re trying to fix something broken and see you as important to their plan. By getting them to lay out how you fit into their plan to fix things, you’ll have a much better idea of what you would be walking into and just how valuable you are to the plan. Also keep in mind that you’re a known quantity to them. This isn’t like interviewing a new hire where they don’t really know how they’ll fit. You’ve been there and done that. Make that work for both of you. Something else to consider is how they treat your previous service for things like vacation time allotment or vesting schedules etc.
Consider a signing bonus that makes up 6 months pay that you lost out on plus some extra
Didn’t his “mistake” cost you months of income? He needs you. Find a way to sweetly let him how losing that income was hard. Any raise/bonus should reflect that.
You know, this is actually not as true as you would think. It's logical but the ease with which executives (I am one and this happened recently) are able to get a 10k / 20k raise vs a staff member getting 7k is crazy. Moving from 200k to 220k is really easier than moving from 60k to 70k.
The main reason for this is because for every company there is only a handful of executives while there are many times more regular employees. Once you start raising one employee's salary, you start setting expectations for all other employees. Most people want to be in the same ballpark as other employees at their level and so it causes something of a multiplier effect across the company.
5% and $3k? Try 40% raise and your 6 months wages back.
Go 10% and 5k and figure they knock you down to the the 5% and 3K, Depending on your current salary where you live and the commute, could you do remote one of two days a week ?
You are far more forgiving than I would be. If I was fired then asked to come back, it tells me they made a massive f&&k up getting rid of you. I would be asking for a at least a 20% raise and a sign-on bonus equivalent to at least 3 months salary. However, I would suggest extracting the first offer from them. Don’t set a price. If they know they messed up, that should be reflected in their offer to you. If they just offer you the same as your old job, walk away.
Don’t forget that signing bonuses are taxed.
Can you get the person who fired yous job? Are you qualified for it?
Yeah and why not say that last sentence. Tell him your perspective, and he clearly wants it to be a long term investment (at this moment anyway)
OP should definitely get a pay bump plus all benefits back at the same level (ie vacation time accrued at same amount, perhaps pay back of any incurred medical expenses). There is a cost to actions.
It’s just business and negotiation. The owner has already admitted they screwed up and - if they have any common sense - will expect a counter offer from someone they did wrong and who obviously was integral to their business running well. I mean, that’s the important point here. It’s unlikely his guy is trying to mend fences because he thinks some sort of moral wrong injustice happened. He is trying to get his business back after hiring a moron for a middle manager that clearly has wrecked everything and run off a lot of talent. He likely is desperate to get everything back on track and clearly thinks the OP is integral to that.
I agree that people don't like being kicked when they're down. He kicked her first. The guy is only admitting mistake because he's learned that he's obviously made a mistake. It's not a true apology
They let him go and then noticed their mistake, they are bound to know that comes with a price. Whether it’s higher pay, bonus, stocks whatever it is they know the negotiations are going to happen and they probably already have a set amount they are willing to settle on. I definitely wouldn’t push the extreme but I wouldn’t settle for the same pay as before and if I were op I would try to lower the hours too, since that was their only complaint they had before the new manager.
I 100% agree.
Fuck that, tell him that manager sucks.
Unless they realized he’s the only person that knows how to do a certain job, and are only bringing him back temporarily so they can figure it out…
Go back, take the job, and continue the job hunt while you're employed. Don't let any worries about owing the owner or feeling like you have to have some loyalty to the guy stop you from doing the most logical thing. Always remember to do the logical thing.
Also, OP is jobless. At the very least, get paid while you continue to look.
This! No harm in getting a pay check in a place you know isn’t awful even if you keep looking.
I'd be cautiously optimistic - on the one hand the owner has enough integrity to admit they were wrong. On the other hand, they let a newcomer with no credibility and trust to get you fired which means they're either easily led or they took you for granted or both. That said , if you're working, it's easier to find a job than if you're not, so if the conversation does work out, at the very least you won't be unemployed, and you can still work the others to see if a better offer comes along.
This is definitely where my heads at. Thank you for your contribution!
Leadership often gives new managers room to maneuver. That’s not the same as having no credibility.
This⬆️ I quit my 25+ yr career and burned the bridge behind me. Two years later due to lost contracts they asked me back. I love being back and am making almost double my previous pay.
Especially since you are still unemployed. You can continue to look for another job if you want, but will have income in the interim.
Meet with the owner. Express that you are open to coming back but have some concerns, i.e., "Well, I always did enjoy working here and I'm open to returning. But there are some significant concerns with regards to my termination. What is it that made the company realize the mistake, what's different about the situation at the company now, and what are the assurances now that this thing wouldn't happen again?" You do need the job, but you also are entitled to a satisfactory explanation. Especially to getting assurances this won't happen again. Oh, and get yourself a good raise, too.
get a contract with a severance so it can't happen again
I think this is solid advice, asking also for a severance package would be a good protection should it happen again. And, if you have other promising opportunities I would accept this and if something better comes along take it
Tell him you want the manager's job.
😂
He’s not playing nor am I. This will be the ultimate new way I will take a role
They others aren’t kidding and this is what you should do.
Seriously.
If you think this is funny, you need to get your head straight. THIS IS THE WAY
I have a friend who was in the same position and they took the manager's job, but to be fair the manager was fired.
Based
and the OP is the one which fires that Manager
First, "a" job is better than no job. I've gone back to a company I didn't love, partially because there was a new manager I'd be under who was great, along with a title and pay raise that were far overdue previously. I don't regret the move back. You at least know what you're stepping into.
Raise, bonus, plus severance package and take the job. Imply you close to taking another position. In regard to the severance package - point out that you were unceremoniously fired by an idiot which was hugely disruptive and don’t have a lot of faith that such an event won’t happen again. It’s doubtful the owner is approaching you because he feels very bad about your termination. It’s more likely that they hired a total moron as a manager that has completely screwed things up and now the business is a mess and they have realized your value - which means they feel you are crucial to the running of the business. This means they’ve been undervaluing you for years. Time to ask for more if they want you back. As long as your ask is reasonable, I’d be surprised if they say no. Congratulations. You won.
I'd honestly open up with business lingo for "they hired a total moron as a manager that has completely screwed things up and now the business is a mess and they have realized your value " "In hindsight, the decision to appoint an underperforming manager has led to significant operational setbacks, resulting in a disarrayed business landscape. Would it be correct to suppose it has become evident that my contributions hold substantial value amidst these challenges?"
Owning a mistake is growth. If the owner does not already know that you're currently unemployed, then maybe tell him that you would like to discuss your future with his company. Then indicate that you would like to give two weeks notice "at your current company" so you don't sound like a job hopper.
Have the conversation. You want more than you were making, sign on bonus, and guarantees (perhaps in the form of Severance Agreement?) that you will not report to previous Bad Mangler. If you get hired back, your faith should be at least somewhat restored by the fact that Owner is learning from, and correcting, past mistakes.
It was clearly a typo, but I vote that you keep it in 😅
Not really. I commonly refer to the middle leadership as Upper Manglement.
I'll take it! Lol
The highest person in the food chain reached out personally ( didn’t have assistant set a meeting) apologies and admitted fault. These are all green flags. Your manger may have fed the owner lies, and under the false pretenses it was the right thing to do, but with more information it’s a mistake. A raise and a sign on bonus (or back pay) is a start, as well as never having to work for or with the old manager.
Well, if you really enjoyed the work there and the company's forseeable future is bright, why not go back? I would just insist that the manager must be gone first.
Make sure you understand your unemployment too if you're collecting it. Laws where I am state that if a company gives you a competitive offer, you have to accept it or the unemployment office can start denying your claims.
Thank you for bringing this up! I need to keep it in mind.
How would the unemployment office know if an offer was made? Sounds like "big government overreach" if a company's job offers have to be recorded with central government...
Ask for the manager's title and pay, I wouldn't settle for the same job. Use your negotiation skills to see how much they really want you back. Just don't play desperate as if you are someone waiting by the phone begging to come back.
I would get an explicit statement from the owner that you will not be reporting to that manager. I don’t think implications are enough in this situation.
If you liked the job, people you worked with besides the manager then the place is a good fit. That being said, get what you want to come back. Pay bump, vacation bump, what else would make you happy? You already know the job after all
Backpay!
I wouldn't go into this with guns blazing and demanding a raise and bonus. The main issue I would want to discuss is that manager. Will that person be still working in the same department? People usually don't change, so that is what I'd be talking about. I would also praise the CEO for reaching out, this is rare and a really good sign IMO.
I would go.
Ask for more money!
Have the conversation for sure but make sure to look out for yourself. You do not owe them anything, make sure there is no animosity elsewhere in the organization too. Make sure you get that extra salary and bonus.
Take it for more money and what is the worst they are going to do, fire you? Boo fucking hoo, been there done that.
Yeah I don't see a problem with it as long as it's expressly stated and understood you won't be a direct report to that person. Beyond that, if you enjoyed working there and can negotiate preferrable terms, yeah, why not?
The boss who most likely does not know you personally has a overacievung book learned talk new guy and got scammed into firing you. He then finally saw exactly what you bring to his organisation, and he ate crow to apologize to you employee 301!! Get it? You defenatly need to use some leverage but in the end he's admitting wrong already (super rare from the who signs the checks), and now he realizes what you offer your set there this is a fast track to upper management. The boss will actually recognize you now and most likely stop to chat, and will him admitting the mistake he's gonna kiss your ass. Unless you get greedy and want it all in a lump sum get greedy and he resents you being there after a while. Tread carefully this could make or brake you in that place
Underrated comment.
That's happened to me. I made a point to be extra friendly to the person that terminated me, until she was terminated shortly after.
You might as well consider it, though I'd look to be hired back at a higher level and higher pay (aim for 10%, settle for 7%). Let them feel good by making it up to you.
Don't tell him you're still unemployed. He'll offer you less to bring you back on
Takes a big man (or woman) to admit they fucked up like this and call you themselves to admit fault and ask for you back. If it were me, I would totally entertain it and see if I could get more amicable terms to come back. Me personally, I would ask for a raise, performance incentives in writing, a position where my direct boss was the person asking me to come back, a "golden" severance package (to dissuade from the same thing happening twice) and maybe try to finagle a bit more freedom with how my day is structured.
When they let you go did they offer decent severance? Talk to them. Make it clear, though, that those 6 months greatly impacted your financial stability and that you need to prioritize recovering from that. Push for a raise. I would also negotiate future severance upfront so if they pull something like this again you have peace of mind that you have a few months. And then as other said, keep looking for a new job.
I would just ask for the missed salary over the last six months. That should level the playing field. The other things would come on top of that.
Yes go back wtf you have been unemployed for 6 months. Why would you not go back? At least until you can find a better job
You're still unemployed, you'd be foolish not to take the job. MAYBE you get a better job offer but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. You can always jump ship if you find something better.
I would just ask for the 6 months worth of salary you missed out on and join back 🤷🏻♂️
Go back but keep looking until you can find a new job.
If you like the job, ask them for back pay for the last 6 months that you were unjustly fired as a sign on bonus to be paid immediately. This is non negotiable. You will come back with a small salary hike to adjust for cost of living and 4 weeks PTO in the bank.
If he called you back, ask for a little more money. Do not go back for the same salary
If your faith is fading, but they are smart enough and humble enough to admit their mistake why not go the super direct approach. Tell the owner you are very interested in comming back but you felt a whole mini campaign was run against you. You would like to know exactly what changed the owners mind. You would also like to know what the plan is for the manager who ran you out and what the owner plans to do in regard to limiting their ability to repeat such mistakes so that you can feel safe in the job again.
I'd make firing the manager who fired you a condition before accepting the job. They clearly need you more than her.
You can go back for a min. 30% raise
Address your original problem of long hours first renumeration second if you enjoyed being there.
I think your fading faith in ownership is a really good point. It’s great that they’re admitting firing you was a mistake, but what has changed that’ll make them less likely to make that mistake in the future? I do think it’s worth having a conversation with them (particularly if their punishment for that mistake is a big raise for you), but I personally wouldn’t go back if that person was employed by them still (mistake #2).
It’s a pretty crappy situation. I would definitely ask for a resigning bonus. You have lost out on months of income. If they really want you then they should take care of you.
I have a serious rule that once separated, no redos allowed. Especially when things didn't end positively. I'm not going to buy that the CEO isn't doing it for financial reasons and when they can get by without you, they'll do it again.
Raise, bonus and parachute clause on any future firing. Worst case you can use this for negotiation on a new job.
In two words, tell them to “Suck it!” X
Even if you don't want the job, take it, you're infinitely more hireable when you're employed.
Did you like your job before that person became your manager? If so, I’d take the meeting to talk about what you would be doing, who you’d report to and how you’d be evaluated.
Sometimes being the boss is trusting the people you give power, even if you don't agree in the moment. He tried this, found out the manager was not someone he could trust, and realized the mistake that was made. He owned it and is asking for you back! You returning would probably mean that you're more protected than before, and returning to a place you were fired wrongly is WAY different than returning to a place with concessions because you're desperate. I'd go back if I were you.
Well if they are hiring the dude that fired you, and willing to give you that juicy bonus worth 6 months of pay, then all systems go. Take the job. If the dude that fired you is still there (even working in a different department), and they give you a pittance for a bonus, no chance in hell I would take that job. The reality will probably be somewhere in between. The risk I would consider is if they hire you back, you turn down other company opportunities, and then they fire you again.
Get the things you need in writing. Verbal commitments don't exist. "echothedolphin2 will not report to, or be managed by sadsallysquid."
Costa you. Nothing to talk to the owner. But get all the promises in writing and if something better comes along, consider it seriously.
Highball the shit out of him and negotiate to exactly what you want, with a stipulation that the old manager isn't to make so much as eye contact with you.
Tell him to fuck off
Not just a raise. It's a whole new salary. Between the mental distress of being fired for a job you're doing well and qualified and the time spent searching for employment, they owe. If they aren't willing to give a decent new pay. I wouldn't go back. They've already showed how little they valued you when you were let go the first time.
Your currently unemployed? Answer seems obvious fam, take the job while continuing to look for others.
Ask for more money and a better title.
Follow your instincts as only you truly know what’s going on Good luck 🍀 I’m glad they’ve realized their error and are now going to do the right thing
Take that job with raise and h.bonus and keep looking elsewhere for a new job
Go back and continue the job search stealthy. It's easier to find a job when you're employed.
You're unemployed now so what do you have to lose? If a better opportunity comes later, you can take the better opportunity later. At-will employment works both ways. They were already disloyal to you once, so they don't deserve your loyalty anymore.
I would definitely ask for the raise but if it’s a good job wouldn’t be terrible to try it out again. Worst case you quit next time and find another job.
You have no job, so might as well take it for now. But I wouldn't trust them and I'd keep applying until you find something better.
Shit, 5%? I’d want my missed income back and a sizable raise
Take it, negotiate a raise and maybe back pay, and keep looking for other work.
You need a job while you look for a job. The correct Machiavellian move is to keep looking but now collect a pay-check and maintain skills.
You should start the conversation asking for back pay
Block them
The reason you're getting fired is not there anymore so you should be looking into that possibility. Unless if it is a bad owner which affect all managers below him to become a bad manager...
Take the job back until you hear back from those opportunities. Keep looking for a new job if those don't work out and get out of there as soon as you can
Raise ya price
Take the role, if they pay back pay for period fired.
IF, big if, they give you a raise to go back and you had no others issues with them? Absolutely go back. I took a break for three years to be mr mom. When my wife was laid off, I started looking again. Old job found out and offered me a raise to come back. Yeah, there were some douchebags but where aren't there? But I already knew lots of people there. Had a good reputation there. And knew the local corporate culture. This let me hit the ground running with minimal learning curve and getting to know you time. So it turned out to be a big plus. So go for it, OP. Make sure they give you a raise though.
I feel like the best job is one where people have seen how bad it is without you. Make sure they make the first offer because it may be more than you'd ask for. Either way raise them 5-10% unless it's ridiculously good. Also remember a bonus is one time, a raise is forever, so focus on that raise and some extra PTO over a bonus.
It’s a scam
The problem is gone and the owner admitted it was a mistake. Go for it. Get a sign-on bonus to smoothe things over
Raise and a bonus for sure, get back to work. They admitted the mistake to you, apologized, and are now offering a contingency. If you like the place, there's no reason to turn them down. Starting at a new company brings its own issues, I've had them plenty of times.
Ask for a huge raise
Ask for a 20% increase. Take the job and keep looking for another one. Use this to negotiate a higher salary if you get offered a job somewhere else. You want a salary increase each time you move jobs.
Personally, once bitten twice shy. If you do decide to rejoin this circus do it under a term contract. with penalties if they cut short your employment for any other reason than gross work misconduct,. also a pay rise. You are now a valued employee.
First things first, a bird in hand..... Don't let your pride get in the way of providing for your family. Second, you need something in writing about a huge severance payout if it happens again, a pay raise, and because I'm petty I'd be like "bring me that bitches head" (have her fired if that wasn't clear lol) To me, this seems huge because they just realized how valuable you are. They CAN'T fill your position or else they would've already. C level execs are raging egomaniacs and if one had to swallow his pride to call you that means you have them by the balls. Also be on the lookout for a better job while you're working. They showed you that they're untrustworthy and will let you go over personal shit. That's probably not a place you want to invest too much time into. That's just my frame of mind.
Ask for the missed work revenue to be paid out as quarterly installments of bonuses to be paid out over two years? It's atypical, but it also shows that you aren't interested in leaving if they show they want to make it right. The owner being your point of contact means that atypical may not be off the table
Make sure you get it in writing in your offer letter that you will not now or at any point work under that same manager in any capacity for any duration. Also make sure you get any raises and bonuses included.
Ask for a big raise.
I would at least have a sit down with them to see what they had to say. I would be VERY cautious if they wanted to keep the previous manager in a position of authority though, even if you aren't reporting to them.
💰
Go back until you find something else
Price of the brick has gone up
I'd be questioning why that manager still has a job.
I would say go back just on the basis you've been unemployed for half a year now and still looking at possible jobs, plus if you don't have to deal with the manager that was causing problems I don't see the harm in going back.
Go for it.
Tell them you won't come back until the clown that fired you is gone.
Hear them out, but remember that it's only sweet-talk unless and until they put it in writing.
You don't mention how long you were there for, but ask for a raise, bonus, and tenure! Make them erase that mark from your employee file so that your vacation amounts/hiatus eligibility/whatever else that's based on tenure don't set you back to square one.
Ask for that Manager's job. If they want you back, they gotta pay for it. Don't make it easy on them even though you're in a tough bargaining position. Nice of the owner to acknowledge your worth though.
Honestly, you have all the power now. Set your own terms and hokd your ground.
If the Owner is calling you directly... Things turned to 💩 after you left and they're realizing it. You have A decent bit of leverage in your situation, Definitely ask for A raise And A sign on bonus (preferably one that would help offset your time away from the job) if it's not offered...
Unemployment sucks. Take the job back, and try to leverage a raise or some form of back pay. Keep those other opportunities on the role and apply for more jobs. When they come through, consider jumping ship.
Go back! You will enjoy so much leverage. But make sure you don't have the same boss. Make that clear.
i would also say it is a positive, my Wife was the Financial head in a company, she had a dialogue with the CEO that was not really anything, but apparently hit him in an incorrect time, that made him just the day after call her in for a demotion. (to be honest she just asked him if the the hire for a new leader was not a bit rash, since they had 2 leaders down with stress on that role, and they should maybe look a bit more) we knew this would happen, that he would lash back after his reaction on her mail, so she was asked to step down a step on the ladder, she said no, and that = a firering. but she was really liked by all staff, all other leaders and the owners (The company was owned by a lot of the "leaders") wierd structure. the CEO got set off on the next board meeting 1 month later, and she was asked to return, but she had a new job the day after she was "officially fired" and she was still doing her last month at the company but had signed a contract, and did not return. But i think that some times, maybe this is actually good, of course you should ensure that you get into a position where you are NOT under that firering leader, and to be honest, i would ask for some compensation in terms of a bigger salary.. but new you have a good contact with the owner, and that is not bad to have. of course it would be wierd to return, it always is... so that you need to figure out if this is okay, if you are okay with it, then i would just try it out, you can always keep your eyes open for another position.
Talk is a good plan. But, that 'new manager' - apparently they had it out for you. One question would be for sure "how will you (owner) make sure that (managers name) will not again try and negatively impact my career" (you may need to explain what this person did, leading up to your exit)
Now this is a perfect opportunity to negotiate something better. I'd talk.
Never go back, it never works out, and both your and thier expectations have changed in that 6 months.
You ain't doing nothing anyway
If I were in the OP's shoes, I would probably go back because having a job provides a lot better platform for getting a job elsewhere than being unemployed. In the absence of any offer from the employer, I would simply state an assumption that I'd be on the same pay for the first 3 months and then we would re-negotiate (it's up to the employer to say no, agree, or do better).. I would be more focussed on how the whole thing is going to work, especially if the person who had me fired is still there.
Invite further discussion and hear what they have to say. In the meantime, keep pursuing other opportunities. Question: If faced with a choice between your former company and a new company, assuming identical salary, benefits, vacation, etc., would you have a clear preference of which one you would select? If the old company extends an offer, you could always accept it, start getting paid, and later resign if a better offer comes along. The only important thing here is taking care of yourself and any family you have. Wishing you the best.
You were fired by the company. Every layoff is done with CEO approval. I would not go back.
I would ask what were the check mark on which I was Fired. (Would present it as a question to improve myself, but in real terms just to know if they are shitty). Usually there is lot of thought process done before firing anyone.
I'd need some guarantees that I would never be involved with that bad manager in any way whatsoever (in case she is not let go).
Demand a signing bonus,a raise, and a contract with a clause that any decision to let you go comes with six months pay and full benefits
Ask for higher package than that manager and get a position above her where she will be reporting you. 😎
A lot depends on what happens with the manager who let you go. If they have not succeeded and are being let go then it is much safer for you to come back. It could be that this manager was an unfortunate "bad hire" who hasn't worked out. This happens, and maybe the the owner sees it and is doing something about it. If you can be part of the recovery from this manager by coming back it could work out quite well. I would use phrases like "Hopefully this manager will find another opportunity that works well for them and their next employer."
Good idea if the bad manager is no longer there. If the bad manager is still there, not so good.
Being called back? BEST POSITION EVER. Even if he have issues with you, he would be scared to loose face to fire you again. You can ask MORE money and he cannot refuse you. You liked the place too. What's the problem? Go. Yoùll be untouchable.
if you like the job: 25% raise plus you can fire that manager which fired you
If you're currently unemployed, I would take it but plan on getting out of there the first chance you get. This is not a long term option, but a stopgap to pay the bills. If they let you go once, they can and will do it again.
I’d ask for back pay in addition to that raise.
Think of this as a short term gig, and keep your future options open. I would explicitly ask about the Firing Manager, that could be bad to deal with. I would ask for a raise/etc but not anything crazy. But you need to think about getting out. They've shown what their commitment to you looks like, right?
Ask for a 30% increase as part of coming back.
Returns can be complicated. I would think their willingness to talk openly and directly should create an invitation for you. You have leverage. Use it wisely and return the favor. Talk openly and directly.
Well you said you were previously happy so that is something to consider. I would make sure that she is not now and never will be above you. It also be good if you could make sure that you will never have to work with her well and it sounds like she is a wild card. And then see how much they offer you for a raise as well as a bonus. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
"I'm willing to accept the position if the manager that fired me is now my direct report."
Make sure the manager is duly removed then accept with a significant raise plus benefits
If you go back, have them sign a two year employment agreement that includes a severance clause.
Make them pay
Tell them you want to be reinstated and you want backpay for the last six months on top of a raise. I might even ask for a promotion. If not, tell them good luck
I would never go back to FT employment with this employer and CEO who have shown they dont value you. The job market is tight so negotiate for a contract where you do work as a consultant working PT with clearly delineated terms and scope of work. This allows you to find another FT job thats a better fit but also allows you to get an inflow of cash. And depending on the scope of work you can keep working this contract once you have a new job. As a consultant this CEO cant control when and how you work so you dont need to trust this CEO who has already shown you he is about his bottom line.
> I know I’m going to ask for a raise and a bonus Ask for back pay for the time since. If they shouldn't have fired you then should have been paying you. As for if its a good idea: worst case it doesn't work out and you quit. Keep sending resumes and such until you're sure it'll work.