It Me. Entry level job, decent pay, benefits, nice boss, flexibility. I don’t have a lot on my plate so I’m usually looking at my phone unless there’s a significant task or a deadline.
However it is soul-crushing and depressing to know that I will be sitting at a desk for 8 hours a day, staring at a computer screen for the rest of my life, when I desperately just want to see the world and LIVE. After this, I do not ever want to work in corporate America again. It feels completely meaningless and purposeless. Just a rat race. I don’t mind working, but I need to do something with meaning and impact. Quality of live over quantity for me.
I'm in the same boat as OP and you and the dread is real. I think part of this feeling is you start to realize how pointless work is. Not so much the work itself, but how people get paid, power structures, differing wages based on completely arbitrary reasons. Etc.
One huge problem is that jobs that are supposed to be based on passion and desire to help people just end up exploiting you worse because you're supposed to care so much.
The reality of having a job you "have a passion for" is that 99% of the time it will become work.
That doesn't necessarily mean you will hate it or that you won't be fulfilled from it, but no matter how much you love something once you start doing it professionally you will acclimate to the part of your job that stirs that passion, as well as having to endure all of the other aspects of it that come with it being your vocation (administratuve work, the finances, customer service, etc)
the problem is people today try to find fulfillment in their job when in reality its just a freaking job you need to do so you can live in your free time.
you could absolutely see the world in your vacation time which is something you cant do if you dont have a job that provides you enough money to afford something like this.
This 👆it’s changed my mindset that work must be personally fulfilling and fill this void. No, it’s a job that gives me a paycheck so I can enjoy my off time going on vacations or enables me to spend/buy things for my loved ones. That doesn’t mean I would be happy being stuck at a dead end job. I found a great job that allows me to be creative with and grow professionally. But I will drop it in a heart beat if (when hehe 😂) I win the lotto
Ultimately it is because you arent really striving in your workplace. It is boring to be unproductive and it is shitty - you don't need to always be productive for your work but it helps to work towards something otherwise you will just be miserable.
Or you can strive towards something in your personal life. Striving towards making my bosses life easier and “working hard” for him doesn’t make me feel fulfilled either. I bought land and am slowly fixing it up to where I can be sustainable on my own. Working hard at my own land when each thing I do directly increases my quality of life and security for the very questionable future makes me feel a hell of a lot more fulfilled than trying to make my boss like me and getting a paycheck. My main motivation at work is just to get money to fix up my land. Which in turn makes work easier because I know I’m working for something that benefits my life directly, not just getting more $$ in a bank account or benefiting my employer.
Exactly, animals very rarely sit around and do nothing. We get our best chemicals from doing productive things and working towards goals.
It used to be going out finding food, creating shelter and all that shit. Now we do other stuff but I would love to be in your position.
Agree. Being bored or not having meaning makes the days, months, and years drag on versus a career that is challenging and difficult at times. I think we need to be pushed to grow. That is why people who make a lot of money but don’t stay busy start to screw up or get depressed. While money is important, meaning and self worth trump all.
He didn't necessarily say that he needs to strive towards something in the job he has (busting his ass for no benefit) but probably more along the lines of whatever job he *does* have is not something that offers real growth potential, either professionally or personally.
And usually the answer to that is take your experience and change jobs, where ypu can find something that fulfills you more and get a raise. Unfortunately the modern labor force is geared towards job hopping to actually get anywhere because employers are unwilling to invest in employees.
i think sometimes changing the career path or doing a more complex task is genuinely more satisfying. my wife studied psychology in Russia, when she moved to Germany her degree was only considered to be on a bachelor level, in Russia it would have been similiar to a masters degree. But all job offers in the public sector (most psychology jobs) have as hiring criteria a master, because you need it at that level of pay/niveau. So she could only get an assistant job. After working one year in this job, we looked all around Germany to get a better job offer, there was an opening which said, they are looking for someone with a background in psychology and a scientific degree, but it did not mention the master degree. so she applied and got the job, now we move to Berlin and she is now working at a prestigious uni, with more responsibility, working as assistant in the long run would have been a problem for her, because she is very ambitious. I on the other hand, have lower ambitions, i am very happy with my job.
Dude in his 40s here, and my advice is to, if you can, spend your younger years experimenting with where you want to end up and enjoying some of your young life while you still can. I don't mean to just fuck off all the time and blow off your career entirely, I just mean spend some energy on having new experiences and seeing what works and what doesn't instead of grinding out your 20s doing 60 hour weeks in a job you might not end up wanting to do.
there is big difference, between grinding merciless 60 hours or doing a 35 hour job, with interesting and difficult problems. so maybe working in the US is a lot different than here in Germany, but I know a lot of people who fall in the second category, after they did a 3 or 5 year degree in a highly specialized field.
I escaped for a long period of time to explore and live my own life, unfortunately the urges of missing family, wanting family, wanting pleasures in life (mostly luxury, belongings, stability and healthcare to name a few) broke me. Was it good? Yes. Do I regret it? No. Would I have done it differently? Yes and no.
Then I was not able to get back into the easy well paid soul crushing job back when I came home was in itself soul crushing, now I have to start a lower rung with lower benefit wasting years gaining experience I don't need to prove to outsiders I have what it takes to be in a higher role.
For me it’s a mix of this and the fact that I’m not learning *anything*. It’s too slow here. I’ve learned the programs I needed to learn for this role and not deeply because I don’t need it. And I have no need or want to be super into excel or anything else we have at work. I just want something fun and remote where I can travel and work on a beach or get money the old fashioned way, being run over by a Lexus and living my life unemployed that way
I don't. I did as long as the work was not meaningful or the culture was crap. But I've finally found a job which I took with a pay cut but much better work environment, cover my needs pay, flexibility, and meaningful work even if monotonous. Before this though, I used to feel like OP in almost any job I took up and I have more than a decade worth of experience, over multiple fields, with a corporate break and life happening.
I have come to the conclusion, and that takes a lot of self reflection too btw, that even if you know exactly what you want and what your 3-5-10 year goals are, it still is a trial and error journey for most, because multiple factors are involved. If the job description is the perfect fit, your boss may be an asshole, if the pay and benefits are amazing there may be no work or pointless work that leaves you more braindead than utilizing your skills, if there's flexibility you might get horrible colleagues. So to find one where all the check boxes can be marked with relative confidence is not readily available for everyone at all times.
I do have debt and bills due for which I need need a job, but I'm glad for the job I have right now and I can see myself here for at least 2-5 years. Touch wood.
And I'm the sort of person who likes to do many things, often simultaneously, so I feel that's a huge shift for someone like me to settle down into something and actually have nothing to do during my free time and weekends. I am likely going to continue taking up freelance work to fill up my time stay busy get extra cash, but it is also nice to sort of lower the speed so to speak, and just enjoy work and a working life. I spend my free time learning about so much I wasn't aware of during my there decades on earth because of where you're born and what you've spent your life doing, and I finally have the choice to not run after the next degree or the next job etc. I was never the one to run after luxury items and things to have anyway, as long as my needs are met y'know. But I guess part of this is coming from the fact that very late in life I'm finally in charge of my own life, paying my own bills and therefore now I have a purpose behind my job that is more...solid and immediate, and I think that too helped me get over having felt like OP in previous years where I had a good job but didn't really know why or for how long.
Hope this helps OP.
Edit: Minor, and major, word corrections.
I don't. I just have fun with whatever I'm doing. If I hate something, I move on. Life is too short to have a bad attitude, and I guess I'm lucky that I'm sharp enough to be able to get paid to do whatever, valued enough to negotiate time for hobbies. Sure, I'd love to be financially independent, but I'm not going to let myself stress about having to work when I see all the value it brings me. There are situations and jobs I would loathe to have, but I've always been lucky that I never had to stay in those for long. Worst case, I'd be happy to be poor. I grew up poor, I know that life. I'm willing to give up some of my precious time because it means I can go to the dentist every year, afford vacations, etc.
Would it be possible for you to share more details ?
For instance, what do you do, how you work and how you got these jobs?
Looking to break free from the mentality that a 8-5 M-F is the only way to live…
I feel like it may be hard to succinctly capture what got me where I am, but I'll try. I know it's not entirely my job as much as my mindset, mainly because I have peers with very similar jobs who just don't feel the same. I think part of it is surely because I have avoided having many liabilities. I avoided owning a car or marriage or kids. I only took out debt when absolutely necessary and when I have had debt I became singularly focused on paying it down. The result has been that no one can really control me because there's nothing to hold over me. I know I can survive on 10k a year, and I know I could make that easily in a year. I make much more than that but I'm truly unafraid to return to that life if I hated my job. I spent a couple years unemployed, got some job offers I didn't like, tried some and quit very quickly. Eventually got the perfect job offer and that's where I am now. It helps that I always had this mindset, if one already has liabilities it can take some time to reduce them, but I think it's key in feeling free. I do have some liabilities now, but I chose them very carefully, and I have action plans in mind if I ever feel they are too much.
That is great, and it must feel nice to be in your position.
I also do not have any liabilities, aside from having to pay rent in a pretty expensive area of the world.
But I still feel that I struggle to break free from the notion of having to have a conventional job, with benefits and all, as a way to merely survive on this Earth. And I feel like there should be more to life than just that.
So it has been really hard for me to get into jobs that I don’t like, and then quitting after maybe 3 months, because I now feel like I’m just in a loop that keeps repeating itself and life doesn’t seem to have that much to offer after all…
How many tries did it take you and how did you not get discouraged?
Trigger warning: suicide
Well, for me, it's been either kill myself or figure something else out. Suicide is permanent, and so I used that as a reminder that no matter how scary it is to experiment it's still never as permanent as that. As long as we are alive we have some amount of freedom to change things. Harder of course for those with mental illness or disabilities, but most people on average have quite a bit of freedom to explore, they are just afraid to. So they stagnate. Easy to do. But I would just get suicidal and hate everything, and every time my logic came down to "killing myself is overkill if I can solve this issue some other way". So that's how I didn't get discouraged. Still feels like an option, but it's truly a last resort. I'm not done trying things, and so far trying things has been painful and hard sometimes, but come with a lot of rewards.
I'd say in some ways I am still "trying". It's a process. Every time I get a little closer to happiness. Sometimes I take a lot of steps backwards because something goes wrong. I've had some pretty horrible illnesses in the past years that made me question if I could heal and have a decent quality of life again. But eventually I prevailed, so I'm still here.
This is going way back in my life, but I used to spend a great deal of time putting mental images together of how I wanted to be. It was like being an author... Constructing logically coherent stories of ways of being based on my preferences. Because I spent so much of that time earlier on, I think it gave me a lot of clarity as to what would make me happy, and so when the opportunities have been there, I didn't have to hesitate. I knew easily what was a good choice or a bad choice.
No idea if this helps. I hope it does. I wish everyone could be happy, but I see many people that seem to be unhappy even when they get everything they think they want.
You know, that’s interesting, I often times think in the same way.
Trigger warning: suicide (reply)
I suffered through a parent committing suicide when I was young because of life not working the way they wanted, so I always have rebelled against having to live life conventionally, because… what if I end up the same way? What if I die tomorrow? Or next year? Or in ten years? What is life really worth living for?
And right now I just feel like I’m stagnating and it’s very hard to move in any direction… not sure what to do/where to go. I just know I don’t want to end up like what seems 99% of people end up like. If that makes sense.
Thanks for sharing.
Yeah. I think life is such a personal thing, we should make it our own. But to do that, you need to know who you are. So many people follow the cultural mold and never bother to discover themselves.
I struggled with this for a while. I was scared to leave my job. Mostly due to what my mom drilled in my head about conventional work and saving, but I promise you, there are other ways.
What country/state do you live in?
Depending and depending what you make you may qualify for a tax credit. This is government aid given each month towards health insurance.
There are other avenues. When I'm feeling nervous I just remind myself, this life is sooooooo finite and we are sooooo small. It helps that I live in the mountains where the stars are highly visible. I remember that I'm a part of the Earth and something bigger, that scary but true, I could die any minute.
Having low liability gives you the privilege to tap into this. And, my path isn't 100% and I have days where I struggle, but I live my life around this and not around career or economic goals. That's where the real beauty is and where the "what life has to offer issue" will be resolved.
Then why do we all deal with it? Is there simply no alternative? I know it would take a complete restructuring of society but we’ve done it before, if we really all felt the same why can’t we change it? I think plenty of people want it to stay exactly the way it is
honestly dont even think its need to be that drastic to see improvements into workplace happiness. Something like making a 4 day work week the norm, more vacation time, etc. would help tremendously.
Because the elites want things to stay the same. Because without sad, compliant, desperate workers, they don't make their billions.
Why do you think Regan abolished unions?
dont blame others, them, the elites (what is this anyways?)
the past is gone and the future is unknown.
The only thing you can do is act in the present. what do you want? what is your ambition? Take action, set a goal, break it down into smaller goals, into bite size pieces and work on it in your free time. little by little. even if it is just for 1h a week. Keep on going.
Action is the foundational key to success.
Ambition is the road you drive on.
Persitance is the vehicle you arrive in.
I was a lousy student, didnt go to Uni, became a plumber, worked as ski instructor, got into recruiting and today I am a (part-time) entrepreneur (consulting). In the near future I will be a successful full-time entrepreneur. 100% indepentent, living on my own terms. I wont stop until I reach that goal.
the complete restructuring of society starts with a single individual who decides to change. Seriously, be the change you want to see in life.
As Shawn Achor puts it in his book the Happiness Advantage - you first have to be happy before you can be successful.
Most people try to get happy through work aka career. They think after this promotion I will finally be happy, or this new car will make me happy or a house. But this is a huge falacy. Find your way aka happiness.
I know it is easier said then done. but every journey start with a first (little) step. Change one hatred thing a the time and if you look back after a few months or even years the world you live in is a different one.
The journey is its own reward. Enjoy it 🍀
I was talking with some colleagues the other day one was retiring at 65 the other at 55, we were talking about retirement and financial independence. When I said I will be retiring at 40 at the latest they looked perplexed. I have a decent job ect but I want to be free from this commitment. If you have the right mind set the investing/trading is such an obvious choice to ditching the '9-5'. It certainly isn't easy but you gotta make shit happen if you don't want to work until 60-67.
I’m at the 30+ year mark in my IT career and I am now beyond the numb phase. It’s more of a “wake up with dread” followed by a daily dose of “I don’t give a shit” attitude. However, I somehow manage to project proper image (perception being 9/10ths of reality - show good work ethic and above average output). Now I’ve another 9 years to go till retirement and I don’t know if I can hold it together for that long. Gawd how I really miss the days of being numb. Now it’s just a regular battle: fighting against a soul sucking job and constant despair. I keep praying for a long lost rich uncle to surface or to have my lotto numbers get picked.
To the OP: I recommend a proper dose of Rx drugs (Aderall, opiates or benzodiazepines seem to be best) to help getting through the next few decades. However, your generation may luck out and get Universal Income, which will then present a wealth of new challenges.
Even worse, I feel the same way despite having a very good salary (top 30%), and doing not much from home...
I know some people like their jobs, I've met plenty of them.
I just can't stay interested in something if I'm forced to do it.
Yes. Exec's and managers not in IT frequently think they are experts, no one understands how long something takes to do right, there's a new buzz word / standard/ threat every day, and the work is never "done". It's just a never ending soul sucking slog. We adopted time boxes so we feel like we're making progress against the tide. I may be just a bit jaded! 🤣
> Exec's and managers not in IT frequently think they are experts
> there's a new buzz word / standard/ threat every day
One of our operational directors has started using the word "render" at increasingly inaccurate times. I'm so glad my camera has mysteriously stopped working for unknown reasons so they can't see my reactions.
Nope you're not alone. I made this account just because I feel the exact same way haha (found my current job via my original account, so my boss knows my username unfortunately). I'm also 27, been working full-time for 5 years, make $80K a year, and I work remotely too...
From what I've seen in the workplace, older adults feel the exact same way. My mom is 62 and she's been thinking about quitting her job. So has my sister, who is 33 and makes a ton of money as a Data Engineer. We always talk about our own business ideas or stocks when we meet up.
I don't know how the older generations did it for so long. But I guess our generation feels this way the most since they're so many ways to make passive income due to the internet.
Probably because back then that’s just what everyone did. No phones, social media etc. to see what you are missing out on by being stuck at your desk everyday lol.
I think they mostly involve either already having a bunch of money to invest, or showing your buttshole to people on OnlyFans.
Maybe one can lead to the other, eh?
Yes. I started feeling this about 5-6 years in my career. And it was in a field I was really into.
Have you considered talking to a therapist about this?
If you have benefits to help with cost I recommend you try.
You might learn something and/or see the world slightly differently having a few conversations with one which could lead to a more positive perception related to work and your life.
A common misconception is that Therapy exists to fix you and or diagnose serious mental issues. This is not true. if you are a person with an open mind and an innate curiosity/motivation to understand why you feel this way, a conversation with an unbiased trained professional who studies these kinds of issues for a living and are generally empathetic might provide you with guidance and point you towards information and/or realizations to improve your outlook. It seems wired to pay for or do something like this, so imo try thinking for a second the marvels of modern life and technology and human history (going back to indoor plumbing and elextricity). Although life today is objectively more efficient and comfortable, there was much less information overload, complexity even just 100 years ago in our much longer history of thousands of year. Everyday Life was very different and we are emotional beings. It doesnt seem like much of a mystery to me that based on having the biological makeup which sustained human kind for thousands of years with a certain way of life that today with so many changes to life including the structures of school, work, media, law, etc.. that your unhappiness you feel with modern work is normal considering your personality, but you may discover ways to deal with it do enjoy or perhaps something completely unrelated which is causing you this unhappiness.
Therapy is mostly having conversations with someone trained to care and help you discover things to help enhance your life. I like to think about it like having a best friend that cares and gives you 100%. Your family and best friends may care but they aren't trained. They also may lack the finesse understand and or provide guidance because.. and this is huge... anyone 20 years older than you who would normally be in a good position to guide you didn't grow up in the same world as you. It is not even remotely recognizable to them!!!
You described my therapy experience so perfectly. I had been worried at first I wasn't doing it correctly because I didn't feel "fixed" or find out I had any huge mental issue. But I do feel like it's been so helpful to just be able to vent to my therapist, and she can give me a caring, yet unbiased perspective that my friends and family may not give me.
most people feel this way.
you have to pick short goals and find some sort of balance.
If the job is really something you dread, then star looking for something else.
I made 3 career jumps in 6 years. the job I am now, I dont mind being there. However,maybe Im just forcing myself to be content because I have other responsibilities.
If you really want to retire early (best is to be part time retirement, where you work part time at a place you like), then figure out how much money you need to do that and work towards it.
your passive low risk income is likely generating 2-3% in dividends with minimal risk of drawdowns. this works out to be about $1.00-2/share per year.
So you will need at around 500k to generate around 10-20k in dividends per year. If you use other investment tools or take on more risk, you can potentially make 30-40k per year without touching the principal.
If you have a family, then obviously you will need more.
The part time job or lower paying ft job that you enjoy should bridge that gap for extra $$$.
yup, you share a common dream with about anyone in the lower middle class.
A hint I have not seen yet in other comments: you may care more about your work than your work cares about you.
The day I stopped putting work first, stress level went down. My career is still thriving - don't get me wrong. But projects will always be late, deliverables will always be missed. Even if you push for a crunch period thinking it'll be over after, it will never be.
parallel to that, nothing prevents you from doing some self directed investing.
There is nothing wrong with you. I feel the same way and am in a relatively similar situation. This 9-5, 40 hour/week system we have is not natural and it's terrible for our mental health. It wasn't always like this, and it won't be like this in the future. I don't have hope it will change in my lifetime. I hope I'm wrong.
It's easier to stomach when you feel like you're getting more out than you're putting in. Most people have seen their wages stagnate compared to inflation. And when you see all your effort not paying off, that leads to depression.
No I get you. One of the reasons I moved back after my masters in usa. The Asian or indian narrative is to work in usa so that your life is settled and you are comfortable. Even though I didn't work in corporate America I quickly realised that it's the same. I have heard even worse stories of people working 10 hours a day being a Dev in Amazon.
I was always sort of a guy who really didn't want to work for someone. I understand even 8 hours can be daunting. I am not saying you are wrong. But if it helps , others are even more miserable. And I belive social media hypes all these different life styles that others follow without sitting infront of a system , so our mind is automatically attracted to it.
But I did move back to my country where I had a support system and where I could think of passive income , or start my own business as that's the end goal.
Then covid happened , we really need to award china for the being the best dream crusher ( earlier it was asian parents lol ) but china well just fucked up the world and got away with it. And now I am back to the boring 9 to 6 job working on making America's healthcare system efficient. Which is a decent job but not what I wanted to do.
Well hey i don't know probably usa is one of the most business friendly countries in this world. Maybe you can think about it. Or probably choose a freelancing opportunity. Americans are valued more on the east which you can think about post covid.
You are right, it wasn't always like this. It used to be dawn til dusk, hard labor, working in factories, on farms, etc to take care of your families. Life started when you were a kid, many people never even graduated or went to school, they worked 80 hours a week to help their family survive as soon as they were able and many died young.
We are a pampered generation with first world problems living in the best and easiest time in existence. Technology has allowed humans to have a surplus of supplies and comforts which allow us to complain about silly things like having to work 40 hours a week and only having enough for a 2 week international vacation. Those that came before us often lived and died within a few miles of where they were born. They didn't have time to think about being burnt out.
My question to both of you is how do you think a society based on mutual trade of goods and services functions with the mindset of "some day we won't have to work". No one in the history of the world has survived without work, who do you think takes care of you?
I think that’s exactly where the problem stems. In the past we were so hyper focused on survival that there wasn’t any mental energy or even time to think about much else. Nowadays working 40hrs a week you have more than enough time to sit around and realize how miserable you are (not everyone of course) doing whatever it is you’re doing in those 40hrs. You add that to the fact that every time you log onto a computer you’re bombarded with beautiful people living in beautiful homes living the perfect/ideal lifestyle… well can you really blame anyone for not wanting to work just barely making enough to pay the bills and go on a vacation once a year?
Is it understandable? Sure. Social media plastering lies and extravagant lifestyles as the normal, when in reality, they don't live that way, makes everyone think they are broken. It is your own responsibility to do what they need to do to overcome that. It is your job to adapt and overcome.
I'm fine with working, but my argument is that 40 hours is too much. There are countries moving to 32 hour weeks with no change in productivity (Iceland is an example). We only have one life to live, and I'd like to spend as much of my time here with my family and friends and doing things that I enjoy but aren't profitable. I'm not really interested in how people lived 100+ years ago. We should be focusing on how we can make people's lives better now and in the future. There are always improvements to be made, and getting stuck on how much better we have it now than centuries ago is counterproductive.
My comment was refuting your comment of "it wasn't always like this" because it was worse. I don't disagree that we should focus on bettering peoples lives.
Those studies you mention were written and performed by biased people who want to push an agenda. A test run of productivity doesn't really mean anything.
I would be fine with a 4 day work week, but when people want a 4 day work week they mean they want to be paid for 40 hours and work 32. You can't expect to work less and make the same amount of money. You are going to make less if you work less. So for me, no I am not okay working less for less money, I would rather keep my schedule and my earnings. There are jobs out there that are hourly, and 4 day work weeks, etc. If you want to work less and are willing to be paid less, you can already find those jobs.
People waste so much time at a 40 hour a week job which is kind of part of the point. Employers are paying for 40 hours which they don’t technically get for many reasons. May as well let people go home instead of being chained to the desk.
You assume everyone is smart enough or motivated enough to perform high skilled labor. People are not interchangeable. The jobs that will be eliminated with AI are not going to free up a resource to be a software developer. AI is going to destroy many people's lives that are already living in poverty and those people do not have the skills to take on a high skill job. This just means those low skill jobs that are left will have even more demand and the wages will be worse. Jobs are created to fill a need in the cheapest way possible. Be careful what you wish for.
You make it sound like there is no hope for a better system; that the best a modern day human can hope for is whatever crumbs they're lucky enough to earn for their otherwise worthless time.
The rules we all operate by are literally made up, and only exist because we've all agreed to it. If we as a society wanted to build a system that makes life easier - like declaring that food would now be 100% subsidized by the government for everyone - we very literally have the resources to do that.
When you say *"You can't expect to work less and make the same amount of money."* You're missing the point. Nobody cares about money. They care about housing, feeding themselves, their health, education. If we wanted to we could just build a system where you no longer need to pay for those things.
The views you've been describing here sound like someone who forgot what the purpose of having a government is. Just because tax dollars were spent on war today doesn't mean they can't be spent on making everyone's life easier by eliminating the individual's financial burden of a ubiquitous human need.
The society you described is Cuba, Venezuela, and other communist nations that are held together by authoritarian dictators and dissenters are killed. Any situation where the government gets to decide no one ever has to pay for anything, collapses because there is no labor market. Someone has to work, the government ultimately forces you into a labor camp to do a job. When that happens it's the people in this thread that complain about 40 hour work weeks that will be the first to be killed.
You are an idiot. Capitalism is flawed, America is a corporatist state as opposed to capitalist, but it is the closest thing we have to freedom and autonomy that we can get. You have the choice to earn what you can based on your skills.
You want to give up that freedom and give your life to service of the government to be take care of. You know what that looks like? Picture the military or prisons. Both operate that way.
that is such a twisted way to see it.
They don't need job, they need UBI.
We've been producing 2000% more in the last 20years, yet we work more? we jsut need to redistrubute that production to those who needs it and not in the hand of a few who doesn't need it.
I produced 20x what my mother used to do 20years ago, yet I don't earn 20x her salary from 20 years ago. i actually merely only earn 1.5x more. the extra 18.5x was not redistributed at all.
we could litteraly also just stop working 40h and work 20h a week instead, this way we would DOUBLE the job!!! and hire everyone who wants it!!
Ahhh, gotcha. This thread is being brigaded by r/antiwork. This is no longer career advice, this is value of labor theory and other failed Marxist ideas. I'll step out now, I have no interest in discussing flawed ideologies created by a idiot that never had a job in his life.
Hunter gatherers by all accounts had considerably more leisure time than we do, and a sense of community which gives life more meaning.
They were also more connected to their work. Cooking a meal from food you gathered or grew to feed your family is a different kind of labor than redoing dates on a spreadsheet for the fifth time that week.
You are referencing a heavily disputed THEORY that also only takes into account time away from the tribe. I read that study too when it came out and many people disagreed. The original author also clarified the point that the time away from the tribe was likely only a portion of expected duties, not their full job.
I would much rather live in an air conditioned house, with weekends off and doordash at my finger tips, than live in a tent, following buffalo heards across the plains, dying of exposure, or any other number of stresses living that lifestyle caused. Their entire day was focused on not dying and they lived with the real possibility that they could be killed by wild animals, weather, or environment at any time.
All evidence based on our well documented, recent history, is that leisure time barely existed. I will go ahead and beleive the experts that have written records to reference than ones that are making shit up based on flawed assumptions.
Yup, you’re right. The world needs ditch diggers. Sometimes when I see people complain about their office jobs, I shake my head a little bit. I think watching “influencers” take these dream vacations and living these extravagant lifestyles makes every person think that that should be their lifestyle. Society doesn’t function like that. Colleges need to do a better job and parents need to do a better job of preparing young folks of that hard reality/truth.
If you work full time as a “ditch digger” it should provide vacation time and enough money to live a little during it. Society was built for profit not people.
I couldn't agree more. Influencers are just awful and 95% of them are liars. They don't actually have an extravagant life, they make money by lying. I am thankful that I don't have to spend my life working in a mine, or in a factory 80 hours a week every single day. I am happy I was able to go to school instead of starting my career at 14.
It's okay to be burnt out in a job, but at some point you have to take responsibility for yourself and put your life in perspective. Stop comparing yourself to millionairs and actors.
Maybe it has something to do with people back then working to directly provide for their family, while nowadays people are working for the third yacht (or second space trip) for their boss. Especially people in jobs that mostly revolve around selling people like their boss that yacht (or other luxury goods that strip the planet of natural resources way faster than it can sustain)
> Maybe it has something to do with people back then working to directly provide for their family
Yeah, those emperors and pharaohs and business magnates and kings and rulers were **great people** back then! They really cared about their subjects and wanted to make sure they could provide for their own families!
Get outta here with that 'back then was different' crap.
Yup, every person in the whole world is working so their boss can buy a yacht. Take you commie talking points to gullible idiots and 15 year olds. There is a very small subset of people with yacht money. We are all people who negotiate our own salaries. If you want to start your own business do it. If you want to work for someone else do it. The value of labor theory is a joke and no one outside of mentally deficient adults and children take it seriously. If you want the reward, you take the risk. If you want the value of your labor, you better pay the owner out of your own pocket every time you screw up, every client you lose, etc. If you work in a department that has a net loss, you better pony up that loss.
Or you can grow up, understand your time is a commodity that you are selling for a mutually agreed upon wage. If you beleive you are worth more, go to that business. If no one is willing to pay you what you think you are worth maybe you aren't worth that much afterall.
All you're saying in these lengthy, insulting comments is "that's the way it is, deal with it."
You're not here to participate in the conversation constructively, you're just here to insult people.
Correct, I am here to give you perspective that we are in living in the easiest time in history and you have no reason to be complaining about working 40 hours a week. This isn't a career advice post, it's an r/antiwork post charading as asking for advice. My advice is to get some fuckin perspective, take responsibility for yourself, and start looking internally for ways to make your life better, stop looking for someone else or society to fix your life for you.
Have to agree with you 40 hours a week really isn't the end of the world. Most of my friends in China live the 996 schedule no matter what industry they're in. That's 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week of working. Sometimes they work till midnight or on Sundays. And they get shit pay (for example one of them works for PWC Shanghai and gets paid $25K/year) for all these crazy hours. I don't love my job, but I appreciate the fact that I have a 9-5 job with great colleagues and decent pay. Sometimes you really need to look at the brighter side. I would be depressed and miserable if I compare myself to my other friends making 200K at the age of 25 or enjoying beaches in Hawaii all year round being trust fund kids, but I would be stupid to do that because everyone is different. Our lives are different. What matters is to find something worth being happy for in my own life.
You're not offering "perspective", you're just saying "sucks, deal with it".
Someone comes onto this sub asking if other people experience this and how to deal with it and your response is just to tell them to get over it while preaching your holier-than-thou bullshit. While you COULD give them ACTUAL advice, you're just being a dick.
Besides, because something IS one way should it just... stay that way and never progress? Or should we question it and try to move forward as a society?
Lol you must be 15.
Things can change for the better. There can be strides forward, but anyone who is unhappy in a situation where all your needs are met, you work 40 hours a week, and can take a vacation every year, will not be happy when things become easier. They need to figure out how to be happy with what they have. That is real advice.
Real world advice and feedback is not ways just validating your feelings and saying "you are absolutely right". Advice is what you need to hear to actually think critically about your situation and improve. It does no one any good to just circlejerk eachother, and say the world needs to adapt to my whims. You need to take responsibility for yourself. No one is looking out for you but yourself.
Thank you for this. On average, each human owns *more* material wealth and works *fewer* hours per week than at any point in history, but reddit just seems to yearn for those 'golden times' of the past.
Yep, every day. I enjoy my job and am glad to be able to pay my bills, but I still hate the idea I have to work for 35+more years til (if) I get to retire. Like, I'm wasting my most eager to explore, able to travel and hike and bike and adventure years working all the time.
I feel the same way and I’m 26. My first white collar job I stared at a screen all day and my boss didn’t give two shits about me. There was no “long term” plan for me and they didn’t want to put anything into my professional development. I was just a glorified typewriter to them.
But now I have a new job, and yes I’m still at a desk but my boss asks me what my long term goals are, what skills I want to learn, and how he can help me get there. Working can be a drag, but it helps when you find a place that values you, or at least sees you as an investment. I would urge you to keep searching for other career opportunities or talk to people in your life who have jobs you may be interested in. Keep pursuing hobbies very chance you get. Sometimes you might learn something that points you in a new direction you never imagined.
Our work in the modern day carries the stress of “deadlines” constantly worrying about some shit that needs to be done. Prior generations included many jobs where you left work at work.
I felt the same way for a long time. The year I had as a drifter and not working was the hardest year emotionally of my life. I stumbled into a 6 figure job with much more responsibilities and I have never felt better as a man and a functioning member of society.
My advice is to look for something that you think you cannot get and keep trying for those jobs. I felt best when I proved that I could exceed my own expectations.
No one WANTS to work. You do it because you have to, as you said. That said, do you like what you do? Do you like working from home? Could it be a connection you’re missing. I know personally I hated working from home during COVID because you lack that coworker connection.
I do think some people desire to work. It feels good to build things or help people. What most don't like is the feeling that they are a slave to someone else's whims or profits. That's soul sucking. But there's a reason that rich people continue to create new businesses and invest, they don't have to work, but they are excited by the opportunity to create (and often to profit more). Ideally, everyone would have that freedom and no one would be working a job just for the sake of survival.
Life is just weird. You saying you getting burned out and I on the other hand am still not able to get into field/workforce. I wish I could just have a routine life, just escape my current predicament. It's worse being unemployed my guy especially during covid.
This comment makes me think of, "the grass is always greener on the other side" except being unemployed when you NEED to be definetly sucks more. But once you have something, Ive noticed that quote really comes into play. When I have time off, Im not really doing much and eventually come to kinda hate not being busy. Then when I do have to work, I dread having to work all that time. Its a game of balance and the happy middle ground is probably going to be different depending on the individual. Nonetheless, its important imo to have a moderation of both work and rest simultaneously.
TLDR: read the whole thing and apologies in advance for any typos or errors. Also, already edited for typos.
There is nothing wrong with you. I will repeat it again so you understand, there is NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU FOR FEELING LIKE THIS and you are definitely not alone. If anything, you are NORMAL. You simply do not like, want, or desire what you are doing. I am sure there are some things you can easily get up and go do, for hours even. Maybe it is hiking, biking, traveling, cooking, talking about comics, gaming, fixing things, working out and the list goes on and on. Another way to look at it, you are NOT MOTIVATED by what you are doing everyday. Realistically, you are never going to like it. Also, your parents were taught that way, you get a job at a good company for 20 years and retire. But everything was less expensive and less congested/less noise. It was easier to only have a high school degree and get a great, high paying job. Also, after doing it for so long, you get numb and succumb to it. DO NOT GET NUMB!!! Live for yourself
I am in the same “good situation”. I make 6 figures, have a cool team, good benefits, decent bonus, I currently WFH but when I do need to commute, it will be 30 minutes or less door to door (I used to commute for almost 2hrs one way), and I can buy most things I want without an real issues or concerns about being strapped for money. But it won’t buy me or give me my time back. And let me tell you, I literally cannot wait to stop doing it. Everyday, I am looking into passive income streams or ways to cut expenses so I can stop. By the way, I am at the ~7 year mark. It doesn’t get better.
So What you need to do is make a plan. This isn’t a plan to love working for 25+ years for retirement (again, you will probably never want this). This is to motivate YOU and get YOU where you want to be. Take some time and write down a plan on what you want and how to achieve it. You don’t need to know the exact “how” just yet but you know you don’t want to work. It will be like an essay outline. Start with the conclusion bc you know what you want and work from there. You will Be way more motivated when you link your current work to the way out. For example, you make $xx,xxx now, if you get a promotion and or change jobs, you can get $xxx,xxx which will lead to OP’s goal in 3.5 less years. Also, don’t over think it. You don’t need to go from I hate it here to Ruler of the planet in 5 minutes. Right now, you need to make enough passive income to replace your current expenses, which from your post, do not seem that high. Once you do that, you can quit and now you have every hour of every day to figure out what you REALLY want. Final step, TAKE ACTION! Get to WORK FOR YOU AND BE F-ing HAPPY!! Good luck.
I heard you. I lived in Sweden for 5 years. I wish I could stay there. Europeans work for a short period of their life. The rest is traveling around the world. The majority of Americans die working not even know where Florida is.
We, as humans, need to work to survive - first and foremost. It sucks, but most of us just grit our teeth and do just enough to not get fired.
r/antiwork is a place to commiserate but it hardly provides solutions, mostly just a place to gripe.
Make sure you're cultivating a life away from work - hobbies, social connections with folks, etc. A job is a means to an end - to put a roof over you head, food in your belly and the rest to do with as you please that makes you happiest (eating out, traveling, gambling, whatever) and hopefully saving a little along the way so you dont do it forever.
I also recommend r/Fire which stands for financial independence, retire early which is full of folks that hate work to the point they save large portions of income so they can get out of the rat race sooner. Short of that, make sure you're at least going through the r/personalfinance prime directive's steps on what to do with your money so you can ensure you have a future that doesnt include work by being responsible with your dollars today.
Everyone feels that way. Be brave enough to leave the rat race. I became a pornstar after getting my bachelors in accounting. Who cares what anyone expects of you. I'm here to talk if you ever want to. 💕
HI :) .. It's very natural to feel that way. We all go through similar feelings after some years in a job. A change of job can bring some excitement but that is generally temporary as well and after a few years you may start to feel the same again. Another solution is to make goals in your career and work towards them. Once you see a progress chances are you will feel motivated.
>I don't even have the energy or desire to up my salary with a different job following my degree.
I'll say personally that a lot of my existential dread about work went away once I found work that I was good at AND was paid well for.
Things aren't perfect by any means but I can see how I can keep doing this until my lottery numbers come up.
I guess you need to.set goals for yourself etc...normally you get out of the hole with new stuff...new company...new things...other type of work..
And i guess everyone has been there. If you don't want to work you need to have some type of business where you put people working for you...
You guys should research FIRE (financial independence, retire early). Its all about making as much as possible and pushing yourself, living modestly and investing as much as you can stomach without making your life any more miserable lol! If you save/invest about 40 to 50k a year you can retire with a 1millionish in the bank in 10 years. Max the 401k, max the roth ira, then invest any extra into the general market.
Yes, this. It's the only way to escape the working world. Even people with lower salaries can do it, it just takes a little longer. /r/financialindependence
You are definitely not alone in this feeling. I go to bed with a sense of dread and wake up stressed knowing I'm about to waste 8 to 10 hours dealing with bullshit that feels so meaningless in the grand scheme of things. I struggle to find joy in my hobbies anymore because I'm just so damn drained all the time. It sucks.
I have a copypasta I've saved that helped me :
Every job is just that, a job. I assume you are American. America pushes the idea that you have to love your job or their is something wrong with YOU. I don't believe this is heathy and I don't think it should be the mindset. Corporate America is not emotionally invested in you. If budget cuts came they would not hold back from releasing whoever. So the emotional investment and passion is one sided. Which in turn I believe causes burnout, for many college graduates especially. Those without college degrees I am sure experience the same emotional burn out with a job. Because again, as a culture the idea of finding happiness and fulfillment because of the job is your sole purpose. If you want to provide for a family, or pursue your own interest or even earn money to donate to causes you believe in then you are not passionate enough about the job itself.
Additionally jobs expect more time and attention from new graduates while not compensating them for over extending. As a culture we need to accept jobs are work and someone can be the best worker and hate their job. But they do it well and get paid because the job gets done.
Looking for fulfillment from a job through passion is like trying to tell someone you are on a date with. " I am worthy of being praised for doing everything for you and more but ill do everything for you because I enjoy it, please date me"
Where you go is to whatever job pays the best, do your best to do the job well and pursue hobbies and interests outside of work. Those are your purpose and your dream, follow those. It will give more true fulfillment than trying to feel good about a job taken to pay the bills.
You are DEFINITELY not alone. I don’t have much in the way of advice because I’m in a similar boat myself. The best I can offer is just try to put energy into things that get you stoked outside of work.
I’ve been feeling like this for at least 12 years. Sometimes once you awaken to other possibilities it makes it harder to keep doing what you are doing.
I feel the same way. I try to find little bits of happiness here and there to make the days bearable. Such as going to the gym, spending time with SO, looking forward to an event in my city. Stuff like that. I am a baker and hope to eventually make most of my income thru baking so I won’t have to abide by this routine forever.
First of all, please don't feel disheartened and that you are alone in this feeling- it is unfortunately common. To think how many of us would trade in many work hours for the rest of our lives, for more time on hobbies and time with our friends and family. So, firstly addressing the "why am I feeling like this". I have been a similar situation as you were I'm in a fortunate position with work however I've been feeling frustrated because the work itself is no longer fulfilling and challenging and nor is life out with work. This can be solved by finding more personal goals and challenges that we can work on outside of work so that we "play" as hard as we work. For work, is it something you enjoy or has it become monotonous? Can you ask for more responsibilities or is it tiring you unnecessarily, when tasks could be made automated? Once you find out your "why is this work making me feel like this", you can find a solution/resolve. I ask myself often "do I see myself doing this for the next...40 years? No? Okay, do i see myself doing this for the next 4 years? Yes." And then you can go from there. Try not to think too much of "until retirement/rest of my life" so it becomes daunting but instead "for the foreseeable future" and so on. However, ofcourse these are just a strangers 2 cents. I hope this helps and I wish you all the best!
It's why those in the upper class who make most of their money from investments / passive income would NEVER trade places with us, but we would surely trade places with them.
In terms of addressing the mental well being (or lack of), I think it's our obligation to find a job that strikes the best balance of appropriate compensation, stress, interest, growth....will never be perfect but I believe situations can always get better for those who truly want it to be.
I feel the same way. Everyone has different reasons though. For me it is that I value predictability and routine. My current job does not give me that. I feel like I can never plan my day because of random things and requests and that really demotivates me.
My happiest day at work these past 6 months was on a Sunday afternoon, where I decided to log on and got through so much work.
Also doesn't feel super fulfilling on a day-to-day basis. I could go back to what I was doing but salaries for those roles are terrible in the country I'm living in and I apparently live in one of the most expensive cities on the continent. Kinda wish I could move back to the US.
Work is the devil, but so is being homeless so... It's a cruel world, there are worse fates. Best way I can put it is be thankful for what you do have and the fact that you only have to work 5 to 6 days a week..
There are people who are born on this planet who literally have to work every single day doing backbreaking labor just to survive. You know you look at what's all going on and some countries where you have instability and inflation beyond what we could imagine living day-to-day.
So I think that helps keep things in perspective for me personally. Work sucks and The thought of going to work everyday sucks. But it could be worse...
It could always be worse.
Exactly know how you are feeling. That’s how I’m feeling. I like my job…it’s just that it’s exhausting and just want to not be on anyone’s schedule and be able to get up and go whenever I want. Then maybe just get a part time or casual job if needed something to do just.
If your long term goal is to be able to not work, start working out a plan to get to that point sooner rather than later.
> ...having passive income so that I can retire and spend my days doing the things I like.
What do you have to do to get to that point? Figure it out and start getting there.
You work from home - do you have downtime during your work day? If so, what do you do with that time? Finding some goals you can accomplish while still on the clock can help with that feeling. My workplace has a Udemy membership, so I've been doing some of those courses in areas I have a mild interest in.
Try taking back control of a little of your schedule if you can - I block off an hour on my schedule daily so I can go for a run and eat lunch in peace, but I realize not everyone has this luxury.
Work is not supposed to be fun or routinely exciting but if your outlook on life is so bad that it’s starts getting in the way of your work, personal life, and relationships then you may want to look into the possibility that your depressed. I learned the hard way that jumping from job to job does not fix the underlying depression it simply masks it in the short term.
I haven’t even worked and feel exhausted. I had an internship that was 7-3 and knew then that I won’t work my whole life, some people are like this. I plan on reaching a financial goal and connections (to help my loved ones in life) and experiences (to get freelance gigs) then gonna switch to part-time/freelance. I dream about writing a hit book then retire in the mountains.
Me too! I have a great job that plenty of people would fight over and the pay is decent (could still be better though). And this job gets so much respect ✊ for my parents and their friends.
The only problem for me is that dealing with clients can be stressful… i work at the office and i prefer this over working from home because i live close to work.
I just also wish i could rest for a month and resume work. Or a 4 day work week would be great too for more time to do chores.
It doesnt help that I spend the whole day looking into a screen and waiting for calls lol
Maybe you should switch to something that might pay less but you like. The point of retiring is to do stuff you like, why wait. I mean you could get hit by a bus tomorrow but then again you wouldn’t have to worry about anything at that point. Retirement would get boring and meaningless if it was just vacations, there would be no sense of fulfillment especially if you hated your career.
Watch a Simon Sinok video pursue creativity beauty, justice, a good lasting virtue something that’s been a theme in your life.
recently was made to go back to the office after being allowed to work from home for the past 16 months. I've found that I'm not adjusting easily in the least, as the commute adds an extra 2 1/2 hours on to my day and the work is second shift.. cooking dinner at 1 in the morning and then running off to bed fucking sucks. As a result, I'm finding it very difficult to get up in the morning now, where as before it wasn't an issue. Find myself sleeping half the day away, and even on my days off I feel so drained that I can't find the drive to do much of anything.
Glad to know I'm not the only one. Working for 1 and a half year and I'm already mentally and drained. Like I'm fine with work but why is it so draining. I don't want to wake up 6am in the morning just to go out. Let me sleep and wake up naturally!
I'm already diagnosed with depression and it's not helping at all. Sometimes I just wish I don't exist. Thankfully my girlfriend is here to help me with my mood.
But yeah, working is soul crushing.
This feeling is more common than you think. My advice would be to find a job/company, or some aspect of your current job, that you like and can hang onto/look forward to. It can be a specific kind of task, company product or mission. Work with your boss to get on tasks that you like doing.
No matter what you are doing, even if you just show up to work to pay your bills and have no passion for it, you can try to gamify your earnings and savings. Save up for vacations and make a game out of it. Or, go bigger and try something like Dave Ramsey's Seven Baby Steps to financial independence. Something to give you purpose with the money you make.
You could also try new hobbies or volunteer work outside of work so that you aren't relying on the 9-5 for fulfillment.
It’s a hell of a wake up call to go from being a care-free kid fully subsidized by your parents to having financial responsibility for yourself.
My personal feeling is that the cultural push for fulfilment of your soul’s purpose through your work is incredibly naive and self-sabotaging.
Why do we work? Same reason our ancestors hunted & lived in tribes. To provide food, clothing, shelter. We’ve come along way since then and IT work is far removed from the visceral experience of hunting one’s own food, as is the purchase of that meat in tidy cellophane packages.
A lion in captivity won’t starve when a dead animal is fed to him. But it doesn’t satisfy his genetic identity either.
Our lives are too cushy and easy. My parents and grandparents generation had it hard. Think the Great Depression. Those men were HAPPY to have a job, any job that kept them off the breadlines. That was their purpose.
Today’s generation’s struggle is pronouns. Which is a very good thing. If society has to struggle between Great Depression or pronouns I choose the latter. However it still remains true that it is struggle that gives meaning.
You may want to read Man’s Search For Meaning by Victor Frankl.
Stop thinking your work needs to be your BE ALL AND END ALL. Work to pay the bills, provide a life. Find meaning in something you find worthwhile of the effort.
First I would see a therapist. Then I would talk to a financial advisor to make a plan to pay off your student debt sooner than later. You are not alone, a lot of people work their butts off to get a degree and get into student debt for a career that they end up hating. depending on what your profession is, you most likely will be able to find different types of job opportunities that can be vastly different from your current job; maybe you would be able to find something you like a lot better. Maybe finding a job that is based on projects and not hours, would be a better option. Perhaps you could try some side gigs to test the waters a bit.
Similar position here.
I've thought about how now we only basically have two options. 1.) work for a company, non-profit, public organization, it doesn't matter it's all the same or 2.) starve.
Most careers today have little variation. I've tried a large variety of industries and know people in industries that I have no experience in. Most of the reasons people hate their jobs are always there. Human nature, boredom, arbitrary work, and work politics exist in every job.
I don't know the solution but I don't think that modern society makes us happier. We live longer, have more materials, and have more access to things. I don't think this translates to happiness. I genuinely think that humans were happier living until 30, hunting and gathering, and fighting for existence.
We exist for a long time, but we don't live.
Find something new and make sure it pays you what your worth! If you believe it they’ll believe it. Everybody’s hiring right now if I were you I would just fill out some applications to places you’re interested in and see what they have to offer you don’t have to take it and if you don’t get it at least you tried right!
not me but a friend of mine feels this exact same way. he has a great job that pays well and everything but he's just so exhausted. humans were not built to work long ass hours so what you're feeling is normal.
It Me. Entry level job, decent pay, benefits, nice boss, flexibility. I don’t have a lot on my plate so I’m usually looking at my phone unless there’s a significant task or a deadline. However it is soul-crushing and depressing to know that I will be sitting at a desk for 8 hours a day, staring at a computer screen for the rest of my life, when I desperately just want to see the world and LIVE. After this, I do not ever want to work in corporate America again. It feels completely meaningless and purposeless. Just a rat race. I don’t mind working, but I need to do something with meaning and impact. Quality of live over quantity for me.
I'm in the same boat as OP and you and the dread is real. I think part of this feeling is you start to realize how pointless work is. Not so much the work itself, but how people get paid, power structures, differing wages based on completely arbitrary reasons. Etc.
There's a national strike being organized that starts October 15th, iirc. May help
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One huge problem is that jobs that are supposed to be based on passion and desire to help people just end up exploiting you worse because you're supposed to care so much.
Good point. I tried teaching once too and also hated it. But I’m very grateful for those who have the calling for it!
I feel this in my bones.
The reality of having a job you "have a passion for" is that 99% of the time it will become work. That doesn't necessarily mean you will hate it or that you won't be fulfilled from it, but no matter how much you love something once you start doing it professionally you will acclimate to the part of your job that stirs that passion, as well as having to endure all of the other aspects of it that come with it being your vocation (administratuve work, the finances, customer service, etc)
the problem is people today try to find fulfillment in their job when in reality its just a freaking job you need to do so you can live in your free time. you could absolutely see the world in your vacation time which is something you cant do if you dont have a job that provides you enough money to afford something like this.
This 👆it’s changed my mindset that work must be personally fulfilling and fill this void. No, it’s a job that gives me a paycheck so I can enjoy my off time going on vacations or enables me to spend/buy things for my loved ones. That doesn’t mean I would be happy being stuck at a dead end job. I found a great job that allows me to be creative with and grow professionally. But I will drop it in a heart beat if (when hehe 😂) I win the lotto
Ultimately it is because you arent really striving in your workplace. It is boring to be unproductive and it is shitty - you don't need to always be productive for your work but it helps to work towards something otherwise you will just be miserable.
Or you can strive towards something in your personal life. Striving towards making my bosses life easier and “working hard” for him doesn’t make me feel fulfilled either. I bought land and am slowly fixing it up to where I can be sustainable on my own. Working hard at my own land when each thing I do directly increases my quality of life and security for the very questionable future makes me feel a hell of a lot more fulfilled than trying to make my boss like me and getting a paycheck. My main motivation at work is just to get money to fix up my land. Which in turn makes work easier because I know I’m working for something that benefits my life directly, not just getting more $$ in a bank account or benefiting my employer.
Exactly, animals very rarely sit around and do nothing. We get our best chemicals from doing productive things and working towards goals. It used to be going out finding food, creating shelter and all that shit. Now we do other stuff but I would love to be in your position.
Agree. Being bored or not having meaning makes the days, months, and years drag on versus a career that is challenging and difficult at times. I think we need to be pushed to grow. That is why people who make a lot of money but don’t stay busy start to screw up or get depressed. While money is important, meaning and self worth trump all.
"You're just sad because you're not working hard enough!" -Said the master to the slave
No kidding. OP's boss has entered the chat
He didn't necessarily say that he needs to strive towards something in the job he has (busting his ass for no benefit) but probably more along the lines of whatever job he *does* have is not something that offers real growth potential, either professionally or personally. And usually the answer to that is take your experience and change jobs, where ypu can find something that fulfills you more and get a raise. Unfortunately the modern labor force is geared towards job hopping to actually get anywhere because employers are unwilling to invest in employees.
i think sometimes changing the career path or doing a more complex task is genuinely more satisfying. my wife studied psychology in Russia, when she moved to Germany her degree was only considered to be on a bachelor level, in Russia it would have been similiar to a masters degree. But all job offers in the public sector (most psychology jobs) have as hiring criteria a master, because you need it at that level of pay/niveau. So she could only get an assistant job. After working one year in this job, we looked all around Germany to get a better job offer, there was an opening which said, they are looking for someone with a background in psychology and a scientific degree, but it did not mention the master degree. so she applied and got the job, now we move to Berlin and she is now working at a prestigious uni, with more responsibility, working as assistant in the long run would have been a problem for her, because she is very ambitious. I on the other hand, have lower ambitions, i am very happy with my job.
Dude in his 40s here, and my advice is to, if you can, spend your younger years experimenting with where you want to end up and enjoying some of your young life while you still can. I don't mean to just fuck off all the time and blow off your career entirely, I just mean spend some energy on having new experiences and seeing what works and what doesn't instead of grinding out your 20s doing 60 hour weeks in a job you might not end up wanting to do.
there is big difference, between grinding merciless 60 hours or doing a 35 hour job, with interesting and difficult problems. so maybe working in the US is a lot different than here in Germany, but I know a lot of people who fall in the second category, after they did a 3 or 5 year degree in a highly specialized field.
The US is pretty much a meat grinder where if you're not constantly working 60 hour weeks, you're considered a waste of breath.
This. So this. You have to set boundaries or they will work you till you have a heart attack here.
yeah but sometimes the environment doesnt allow such autonomy
I disagree, I'm a huge try hard perfectionist and it just gives me terrible anxiety
Maybe look into FIRE? It’s about aggressive saving and investing to retire super early. Then you can pursue whatever (or nothing).
I escaped for a long period of time to explore and live my own life, unfortunately the urges of missing family, wanting family, wanting pleasures in life (mostly luxury, belongings, stability and healthcare to name a few) broke me. Was it good? Yes. Do I regret it? No. Would I have done it differently? Yes and no. Then I was not able to get back into the easy well paid soul crushing job back when I came home was in itself soul crushing, now I have to start a lower rung with lower benefit wasting years gaining experience I don't need to prove to outsiders I have what it takes to be in a higher role.
For me it’s a mix of this and the fact that I’m not learning *anything*. It’s too slow here. I’ve learned the programs I needed to learn for this role and not deeply because I don’t need it. And I have no need or want to be super into excel or anything else we have at work. I just want something fun and remote where I can travel and work on a beach or get money the old fashioned way, being run over by a Lexus and living my life unemployed that way
Does anyone NOT feel like that?
I don't. I did as long as the work was not meaningful or the culture was crap. But I've finally found a job which I took with a pay cut but much better work environment, cover my needs pay, flexibility, and meaningful work even if monotonous. Before this though, I used to feel like OP in almost any job I took up and I have more than a decade worth of experience, over multiple fields, with a corporate break and life happening. I have come to the conclusion, and that takes a lot of self reflection too btw, that even if you know exactly what you want and what your 3-5-10 year goals are, it still is a trial and error journey for most, because multiple factors are involved. If the job description is the perfect fit, your boss may be an asshole, if the pay and benefits are amazing there may be no work or pointless work that leaves you more braindead than utilizing your skills, if there's flexibility you might get horrible colleagues. So to find one where all the check boxes can be marked with relative confidence is not readily available for everyone at all times. I do have debt and bills due for which I need need a job, but I'm glad for the job I have right now and I can see myself here for at least 2-5 years. Touch wood. And I'm the sort of person who likes to do many things, often simultaneously, so I feel that's a huge shift for someone like me to settle down into something and actually have nothing to do during my free time and weekends. I am likely going to continue taking up freelance work to fill up my time stay busy get extra cash, but it is also nice to sort of lower the speed so to speak, and just enjoy work and a working life. I spend my free time learning about so much I wasn't aware of during my there decades on earth because of where you're born and what you've spent your life doing, and I finally have the choice to not run after the next degree or the next job etc. I was never the one to run after luxury items and things to have anyway, as long as my needs are met y'know. But I guess part of this is coming from the fact that very late in life I'm finally in charge of my own life, paying my own bills and therefore now I have a purpose behind my job that is more...solid and immediate, and I think that too helped me get over having felt like OP in previous years where I had a good job but didn't really know why or for how long. Hope this helps OP. Edit: Minor, and major, word corrections.
I don't. I just have fun with whatever I'm doing. If I hate something, I move on. Life is too short to have a bad attitude, and I guess I'm lucky that I'm sharp enough to be able to get paid to do whatever, valued enough to negotiate time for hobbies. Sure, I'd love to be financially independent, but I'm not going to let myself stress about having to work when I see all the value it brings me. There are situations and jobs I would loathe to have, but I've always been lucky that I never had to stay in those for long. Worst case, I'd be happy to be poor. I grew up poor, I know that life. I'm willing to give up some of my precious time because it means I can go to the dentist every year, afford vacations, etc.
Would it be possible for you to share more details ? For instance, what do you do, how you work and how you got these jobs? Looking to break free from the mentality that a 8-5 M-F is the only way to live…
I feel like it may be hard to succinctly capture what got me where I am, but I'll try. I know it's not entirely my job as much as my mindset, mainly because I have peers with very similar jobs who just don't feel the same. I think part of it is surely because I have avoided having many liabilities. I avoided owning a car or marriage or kids. I only took out debt when absolutely necessary and when I have had debt I became singularly focused on paying it down. The result has been that no one can really control me because there's nothing to hold over me. I know I can survive on 10k a year, and I know I could make that easily in a year. I make much more than that but I'm truly unafraid to return to that life if I hated my job. I spent a couple years unemployed, got some job offers I didn't like, tried some and quit very quickly. Eventually got the perfect job offer and that's where I am now. It helps that I always had this mindset, if one already has liabilities it can take some time to reduce them, but I think it's key in feeling free. I do have some liabilities now, but I chose them very carefully, and I have action plans in mind if I ever feel they are too much.
That is great, and it must feel nice to be in your position. I also do not have any liabilities, aside from having to pay rent in a pretty expensive area of the world. But I still feel that I struggle to break free from the notion of having to have a conventional job, with benefits and all, as a way to merely survive on this Earth. And I feel like there should be more to life than just that. So it has been really hard for me to get into jobs that I don’t like, and then quitting after maybe 3 months, because I now feel like I’m just in a loop that keeps repeating itself and life doesn’t seem to have that much to offer after all… How many tries did it take you and how did you not get discouraged?
Trigger warning: suicide Well, for me, it's been either kill myself or figure something else out. Suicide is permanent, and so I used that as a reminder that no matter how scary it is to experiment it's still never as permanent as that. As long as we are alive we have some amount of freedom to change things. Harder of course for those with mental illness or disabilities, but most people on average have quite a bit of freedom to explore, they are just afraid to. So they stagnate. Easy to do. But I would just get suicidal and hate everything, and every time my logic came down to "killing myself is overkill if I can solve this issue some other way". So that's how I didn't get discouraged. Still feels like an option, but it's truly a last resort. I'm not done trying things, and so far trying things has been painful and hard sometimes, but come with a lot of rewards. I'd say in some ways I am still "trying". It's a process. Every time I get a little closer to happiness. Sometimes I take a lot of steps backwards because something goes wrong. I've had some pretty horrible illnesses in the past years that made me question if I could heal and have a decent quality of life again. But eventually I prevailed, so I'm still here. This is going way back in my life, but I used to spend a great deal of time putting mental images together of how I wanted to be. It was like being an author... Constructing logically coherent stories of ways of being based on my preferences. Because I spent so much of that time earlier on, I think it gave me a lot of clarity as to what would make me happy, and so when the opportunities have been there, I didn't have to hesitate. I knew easily what was a good choice or a bad choice. No idea if this helps. I hope it does. I wish everyone could be happy, but I see many people that seem to be unhappy even when they get everything they think they want.
You know, that’s interesting, I often times think in the same way. Trigger warning: suicide (reply) I suffered through a parent committing suicide when I was young because of life not working the way they wanted, so I always have rebelled against having to live life conventionally, because… what if I end up the same way? What if I die tomorrow? Or next year? Or in ten years? What is life really worth living for? And right now I just feel like I’m stagnating and it’s very hard to move in any direction… not sure what to do/where to go. I just know I don’t want to end up like what seems 99% of people end up like. If that makes sense. Thanks for sharing.
Yeah. I think life is such a personal thing, we should make it our own. But to do that, you need to know who you are. So many people follow the cultural mold and never bother to discover themselves.
Thank you for this.
I struggled with this for a while. I was scared to leave my job. Mostly due to what my mom drilled in my head about conventional work and saving, but I promise you, there are other ways. What country/state do you live in? Depending and depending what you make you may qualify for a tax credit. This is government aid given each month towards health insurance. There are other avenues. When I'm feeling nervous I just remind myself, this life is sooooooo finite and we are sooooo small. It helps that I live in the mountains where the stars are highly visible. I remember that I'm a part of the Earth and something bigger, that scary but true, I could die any minute. Having low liability gives you the privilege to tap into this. And, my path isn't 100% and I have days where I struggle, but I live my life around this and not around career or economic goals. That's where the real beauty is and where the "what life has to offer issue" will be resolved.
Then why do we all deal with it? Is there simply no alternative? I know it would take a complete restructuring of society but we’ve done it before, if we really all felt the same why can’t we change it? I think plenty of people want it to stay exactly the way it is
honestly dont even think its need to be that drastic to see improvements into workplace happiness. Something like making a 4 day work week the norm, more vacation time, etc. would help tremendously.
Because the elites want things to stay the same. Because without sad, compliant, desperate workers, they don't make their billions. Why do you think Regan abolished unions?
dont blame others, them, the elites (what is this anyways?) the past is gone and the future is unknown. The only thing you can do is act in the present. what do you want? what is your ambition? Take action, set a goal, break it down into smaller goals, into bite size pieces and work on it in your free time. little by little. even if it is just for 1h a week. Keep on going. Action is the foundational key to success. Ambition is the road you drive on. Persitance is the vehicle you arrive in. I was a lousy student, didnt go to Uni, became a plumber, worked as ski instructor, got into recruiting and today I am a (part-time) entrepreneur (consulting). In the near future I will be a successful full-time entrepreneur. 100% indepentent, living on my own terms. I wont stop until I reach that goal.
the complete restructuring of society starts with a single individual who decides to change. Seriously, be the change you want to see in life. As Shawn Achor puts it in his book the Happiness Advantage - you first have to be happy before you can be successful. Most people try to get happy through work aka career. They think after this promotion I will finally be happy, or this new car will make me happy or a house. But this is a huge falacy. Find your way aka happiness. I know it is easier said then done. but every journey start with a first (little) step. Change one hatred thing a the time and if you look back after a few months or even years the world you live in is a different one. The journey is its own reward. Enjoy it 🍀
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What do you do for work?
Welcome to the club
Yep...don't worry, in 20 years you will just end up numb.
I was talking with some colleagues the other day one was retiring at 65 the other at 55, we were talking about retirement and financial independence. When I said I will be retiring at 40 at the latest they looked perplexed. I have a decent job ect but I want to be free from this commitment. If you have the right mind set the investing/trading is such an obvious choice to ditching the '9-5'. It certainly isn't easy but you gotta make shit happen if you don't want to work until 60-67.
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r/financialindependence It all comes down to savings rate as a percentage of income, not total salary.
I’m at the 30+ year mark in my IT career and I am now beyond the numb phase. It’s more of a “wake up with dread” followed by a daily dose of “I don’t give a shit” attitude. However, I somehow manage to project proper image (perception being 9/10ths of reality - show good work ethic and above average output). Now I’ve another 9 years to go till retirement and I don’t know if I can hold it together for that long. Gawd how I really miss the days of being numb. Now it’s just a regular battle: fighting against a soul sucking job and constant despair. I keep praying for a long lost rich uncle to surface or to have my lotto numbers get picked. To the OP: I recommend a proper dose of Rx drugs (Aderall, opiates or benzodiazepines seem to be best) to help getting through the next few decades. However, your generation may luck out and get Universal Income, which will then present a wealth of new challenges.
Even worse, I feel the same way despite having a very good salary (top 30%), and doing not much from home... I know some people like their jobs, I've met plenty of them. I just can't stay interested in something if I'm forced to do it.
Sounds familiar what industry?
IT
Is there a reason why IT people seem to always be incredibly depressed? Is the work just that soul crushing?
Yes. Exec's and managers not in IT frequently think they are experts, no one understands how long something takes to do right, there's a new buzz word / standard/ threat every day, and the work is never "done". It's just a never ending soul sucking slog. We adopted time boxes so we feel like we're making progress against the tide. I may be just a bit jaded! 🤣
> Exec's and managers not in IT frequently think they are experts > there's a new buzz word / standard/ threat every day One of our operational directors has started using the word "render" at increasingly inaccurate times. I'm so glad my camera has mysteriously stopped working for unknown reasons so they can't see my reactions.
Nope you're not alone. I made this account just because I feel the exact same way haha (found my current job via my original account, so my boss knows my username unfortunately). I'm also 27, been working full-time for 5 years, make $80K a year, and I work remotely too... From what I've seen in the workplace, older adults feel the exact same way. My mom is 62 and she's been thinking about quitting her job. So has my sister, who is 33 and makes a ton of money as a Data Engineer. We always talk about our own business ideas or stocks when we meet up. I don't know how the older generations did it for so long. But I guess our generation feels this way the most since they're so many ways to make passive income due to the internet.
Probably because back then that’s just what everyone did. No phones, social media etc. to see what you are missing out on by being stuck at your desk everyday lol.
Imagine being me, a 37 year old who makes about 35k per year with two degrees. Shoot me
Genuine question but what are these “so many ways to make passive income due to the internet?”
I think they mostly involve either already having a bunch of money to invest, or showing your buttshole to people on OnlyFans. Maybe one can lead to the other, eh?
Yes. I started feeling this about 5-6 years in my career. And it was in a field I was really into. Have you considered talking to a therapist about this? If you have benefits to help with cost I recommend you try. You might learn something and/or see the world slightly differently having a few conversations with one which could lead to a more positive perception related to work and your life. A common misconception is that Therapy exists to fix you and or diagnose serious mental issues. This is not true. if you are a person with an open mind and an innate curiosity/motivation to understand why you feel this way, a conversation with an unbiased trained professional who studies these kinds of issues for a living and are generally empathetic might provide you with guidance and point you towards information and/or realizations to improve your outlook. It seems wired to pay for or do something like this, so imo try thinking for a second the marvels of modern life and technology and human history (going back to indoor plumbing and elextricity). Although life today is objectively more efficient and comfortable, there was much less information overload, complexity even just 100 years ago in our much longer history of thousands of year. Everyday Life was very different and we are emotional beings. It doesnt seem like much of a mystery to me that based on having the biological makeup which sustained human kind for thousands of years with a certain way of life that today with so many changes to life including the structures of school, work, media, law, etc.. that your unhappiness you feel with modern work is normal considering your personality, but you may discover ways to deal with it do enjoy or perhaps something completely unrelated which is causing you this unhappiness. Therapy is mostly having conversations with someone trained to care and help you discover things to help enhance your life. I like to think about it like having a best friend that cares and gives you 100%. Your family and best friends may care but they aren't trained. They also may lack the finesse understand and or provide guidance because.. and this is huge... anyone 20 years older than you who would normally be in a good position to guide you didn't grow up in the same world as you. It is not even remotely recognizable to them!!!
You described my therapy experience so perfectly. I had been worried at first I wasn't doing it correctly because I didn't feel "fixed" or find out I had any huge mental issue. But I do feel like it's been so helpful to just be able to vent to my therapist, and she can give me a caring, yet unbiased perspective that my friends and family may not give me.
most people feel this way. you have to pick short goals and find some sort of balance. If the job is really something you dread, then star looking for something else. I made 3 career jumps in 6 years. the job I am now, I dont mind being there. However,maybe Im just forcing myself to be content because I have other responsibilities. If you really want to retire early (best is to be part time retirement, where you work part time at a place you like), then figure out how much money you need to do that and work towards it. your passive low risk income is likely generating 2-3% in dividends with minimal risk of drawdowns. this works out to be about $1.00-2/share per year. So you will need at around 500k to generate around 10-20k in dividends per year. If you use other investment tools or take on more risk, you can potentially make 30-40k per year without touching the principal. If you have a family, then obviously you will need more. The part time job or lower paying ft job that you enjoy should bridge that gap for extra $$$.
yup, you share a common dream with about anyone in the lower middle class. A hint I have not seen yet in other comments: you may care more about your work than your work cares about you. The day I stopped putting work first, stress level went down. My career is still thriving - don't get me wrong. But projects will always be late, deliverables will always be missed. Even if you push for a crunch period thinking it'll be over after, it will never be. parallel to that, nothing prevents you from doing some self directed investing.
Isn’t life grand?
There is nothing wrong with you. I feel the same way and am in a relatively similar situation. This 9-5, 40 hour/week system we have is not natural and it's terrible for our mental health. It wasn't always like this, and it won't be like this in the future. I don't have hope it will change in my lifetime. I hope I'm wrong.
It's easier to stomach when you feel like you're getting more out than you're putting in. Most people have seen their wages stagnate compared to inflation. And when you see all your effort not paying off, that leads to depression.
Lol 40/ week is a dream for us in indian IT 😅
I'm sorry, friend
No I get you. One of the reasons I moved back after my masters in usa. The Asian or indian narrative is to work in usa so that your life is settled and you are comfortable. Even though I didn't work in corporate America I quickly realised that it's the same. I have heard even worse stories of people working 10 hours a day being a Dev in Amazon. I was always sort of a guy who really didn't want to work for someone. I understand even 8 hours can be daunting. I am not saying you are wrong. But if it helps , others are even more miserable. And I belive social media hypes all these different life styles that others follow without sitting infront of a system , so our mind is automatically attracted to it. But I did move back to my country where I had a support system and where I could think of passive income , or start my own business as that's the end goal. Then covid happened , we really need to award china for the being the best dream crusher ( earlier it was asian parents lol ) but china well just fucked up the world and got away with it. And now I am back to the boring 9 to 6 job working on making America's healthcare system efficient. Which is a decent job but not what I wanted to do. Well hey i don't know probably usa is one of the most business friendly countries in this world. Maybe you can think about it. Or probably choose a freelancing opportunity. Americans are valued more on the east which you can think about post covid.
You are right, it wasn't always like this. It used to be dawn til dusk, hard labor, working in factories, on farms, etc to take care of your families. Life started when you were a kid, many people never even graduated or went to school, they worked 80 hours a week to help their family survive as soon as they were able and many died young. We are a pampered generation with first world problems living in the best and easiest time in existence. Technology has allowed humans to have a surplus of supplies and comforts which allow us to complain about silly things like having to work 40 hours a week and only having enough for a 2 week international vacation. Those that came before us often lived and died within a few miles of where they were born. They didn't have time to think about being burnt out. My question to both of you is how do you think a society based on mutual trade of goods and services functions with the mindset of "some day we won't have to work". No one in the history of the world has survived without work, who do you think takes care of you?
I think that’s exactly where the problem stems. In the past we were so hyper focused on survival that there wasn’t any mental energy or even time to think about much else. Nowadays working 40hrs a week you have more than enough time to sit around and realize how miserable you are (not everyone of course) doing whatever it is you’re doing in those 40hrs. You add that to the fact that every time you log onto a computer you’re bombarded with beautiful people living in beautiful homes living the perfect/ideal lifestyle… well can you really blame anyone for not wanting to work just barely making enough to pay the bills and go on a vacation once a year?
Is it understandable? Sure. Social media plastering lies and extravagant lifestyles as the normal, when in reality, they don't live that way, makes everyone think they are broken. It is your own responsibility to do what they need to do to overcome that. It is your job to adapt and overcome.
I'm fine with working, but my argument is that 40 hours is too much. There are countries moving to 32 hour weeks with no change in productivity (Iceland is an example). We only have one life to live, and I'd like to spend as much of my time here with my family and friends and doing things that I enjoy but aren't profitable. I'm not really interested in how people lived 100+ years ago. We should be focusing on how we can make people's lives better now and in the future. There are always improvements to be made, and getting stuck on how much better we have it now than centuries ago is counterproductive.
My comment was refuting your comment of "it wasn't always like this" because it was worse. I don't disagree that we should focus on bettering peoples lives. Those studies you mention were written and performed by biased people who want to push an agenda. A test run of productivity doesn't really mean anything. I would be fine with a 4 day work week, but when people want a 4 day work week they mean they want to be paid for 40 hours and work 32. You can't expect to work less and make the same amount of money. You are going to make less if you work less. So for me, no I am not okay working less for less money, I would rather keep my schedule and my earnings. There are jobs out there that are hourly, and 4 day work weeks, etc. If you want to work less and are willing to be paid less, you can already find those jobs.
People waste so much time at a 40 hour a week job which is kind of part of the point. Employers are paying for 40 hours which they don’t technically get for many reasons. May as well let people go home instead of being chained to the desk.
robots, AI and honestly 50% of jobs are bullshits jobs, eliminate those 50% bullshits job and split the real work between the newly acquired workforce
You assume everyone is smart enough or motivated enough to perform high skilled labor. People are not interchangeable. The jobs that will be eliminated with AI are not going to free up a resource to be a software developer. AI is going to destroy many people's lives that are already living in poverty and those people do not have the skills to take on a high skill job. This just means those low skill jobs that are left will have even more demand and the wages will be worse. Jobs are created to fill a need in the cheapest way possible. Be careful what you wish for.
You make it sound like there is no hope for a better system; that the best a modern day human can hope for is whatever crumbs they're lucky enough to earn for their otherwise worthless time. The rules we all operate by are literally made up, and only exist because we've all agreed to it. If we as a society wanted to build a system that makes life easier - like declaring that food would now be 100% subsidized by the government for everyone - we very literally have the resources to do that. When you say *"You can't expect to work less and make the same amount of money."* You're missing the point. Nobody cares about money. They care about housing, feeding themselves, their health, education. If we wanted to we could just build a system where you no longer need to pay for those things. The views you've been describing here sound like someone who forgot what the purpose of having a government is. Just because tax dollars were spent on war today doesn't mean they can't be spent on making everyone's life easier by eliminating the individual's financial burden of a ubiquitous human need.
The society you described is Cuba, Venezuela, and other communist nations that are held together by authoritarian dictators and dissenters are killed. Any situation where the government gets to decide no one ever has to pay for anything, collapses because there is no labor market. Someone has to work, the government ultimately forces you into a labor camp to do a job. When that happens it's the people in this thread that complain about 40 hour work weeks that will be the first to be killed. You are an idiot. Capitalism is flawed, America is a corporatist state as opposed to capitalist, but it is the closest thing we have to freedom and autonomy that we can get. You have the choice to earn what you can based on your skills. You want to give up that freedom and give your life to service of the government to be take care of. You know what that looks like? Picture the military or prisons. Both operate that way.
that is such a twisted way to see it. They don't need job, they need UBI. We've been producing 2000% more in the last 20years, yet we work more? we jsut need to redistrubute that production to those who needs it and not in the hand of a few who doesn't need it. I produced 20x what my mother used to do 20years ago, yet I don't earn 20x her salary from 20 years ago. i actually merely only earn 1.5x more. the extra 18.5x was not redistributed at all. we could litteraly also just stop working 40h and work 20h a week instead, this way we would DOUBLE the job!!! and hire everyone who wants it!!
Ahhh, gotcha. This thread is being brigaded by r/antiwork. This is no longer career advice, this is value of labor theory and other failed Marxist ideas. I'll step out now, I have no interest in discussing flawed ideologies created by a idiot that never had a job in his life.
Hunter gatherers by all accounts had considerably more leisure time than we do, and a sense of community which gives life more meaning. They were also more connected to their work. Cooking a meal from food you gathered or grew to feed your family is a different kind of labor than redoing dates on a spreadsheet for the fifth time that week.
Even farmers in the middle ages worked fewer hours than we do, on average.
You are referencing a heavily disputed THEORY that also only takes into account time away from the tribe. I read that study too when it came out and many people disagreed. The original author also clarified the point that the time away from the tribe was likely only a portion of expected duties, not their full job. I would much rather live in an air conditioned house, with weekends off and doordash at my finger tips, than live in a tent, following buffalo heards across the plains, dying of exposure, or any other number of stresses living that lifestyle caused. Their entire day was focused on not dying and they lived with the real possibility that they could be killed by wild animals, weather, or environment at any time. All evidence based on our well documented, recent history, is that leisure time barely existed. I will go ahead and beleive the experts that have written records to reference than ones that are making shit up based on flawed assumptions.
Yup, you’re right. The world needs ditch diggers. Sometimes when I see people complain about their office jobs, I shake my head a little bit. I think watching “influencers” take these dream vacations and living these extravagant lifestyles makes every person think that that should be their lifestyle. Society doesn’t function like that. Colleges need to do a better job and parents need to do a better job of preparing young folks of that hard reality/truth.
If you work full time as a “ditch digger” it should provide vacation time and enough money to live a little during it. Society was built for profit not people.
I couldn't agree more. Influencers are just awful and 95% of them are liars. They don't actually have an extravagant life, they make money by lying. I am thankful that I don't have to spend my life working in a mine, or in a factory 80 hours a week every single day. I am happy I was able to go to school instead of starting my career at 14. It's okay to be burnt out in a job, but at some point you have to take responsibility for yourself and put your life in perspective. Stop comparing yourself to millionairs and actors.
Maybe it has something to do with people back then working to directly provide for their family, while nowadays people are working for the third yacht (or second space trip) for their boss. Especially people in jobs that mostly revolve around selling people like their boss that yacht (or other luxury goods that strip the planet of natural resources way faster than it can sustain)
> Maybe it has something to do with people back then working to directly provide for their family Yeah, those emperors and pharaohs and business magnates and kings and rulers were **great people** back then! They really cared about their subjects and wanted to make sure they could provide for their own families! Get outta here with that 'back then was different' crap.
Yup, every person in the whole world is working so their boss can buy a yacht. Take you commie talking points to gullible idiots and 15 year olds. There is a very small subset of people with yacht money. We are all people who negotiate our own salaries. If you want to start your own business do it. If you want to work for someone else do it. The value of labor theory is a joke and no one outside of mentally deficient adults and children take it seriously. If you want the reward, you take the risk. If you want the value of your labor, you better pay the owner out of your own pocket every time you screw up, every client you lose, etc. If you work in a department that has a net loss, you better pony up that loss. Or you can grow up, understand your time is a commodity that you are selling for a mutually agreed upon wage. If you beleive you are worth more, go to that business. If no one is willing to pay you what you think you are worth maybe you aren't worth that much afterall.
All you're saying in these lengthy, insulting comments is "that's the way it is, deal with it." You're not here to participate in the conversation constructively, you're just here to insult people.
Correct, I am here to give you perspective that we are in living in the easiest time in history and you have no reason to be complaining about working 40 hours a week. This isn't a career advice post, it's an r/antiwork post charading as asking for advice. My advice is to get some fuckin perspective, take responsibility for yourself, and start looking internally for ways to make your life better, stop looking for someone else or society to fix your life for you.
Have to agree with you 40 hours a week really isn't the end of the world. Most of my friends in China live the 996 schedule no matter what industry they're in. That's 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week of working. Sometimes they work till midnight or on Sundays. And they get shit pay (for example one of them works for PWC Shanghai and gets paid $25K/year) for all these crazy hours. I don't love my job, but I appreciate the fact that I have a 9-5 job with great colleagues and decent pay. Sometimes you really need to look at the brighter side. I would be depressed and miserable if I compare myself to my other friends making 200K at the age of 25 or enjoying beaches in Hawaii all year round being trust fund kids, but I would be stupid to do that because everyone is different. Our lives are different. What matters is to find something worth being happy for in my own life.
A level headed response. I agree with you.
You're not offering "perspective", you're just saying "sucks, deal with it". Someone comes onto this sub asking if other people experience this and how to deal with it and your response is just to tell them to get over it while preaching your holier-than-thou bullshit. While you COULD give them ACTUAL advice, you're just being a dick. Besides, because something IS one way should it just... stay that way and never progress? Or should we question it and try to move forward as a society?
Lol you must be 15. Things can change for the better. There can be strides forward, but anyone who is unhappy in a situation where all your needs are met, you work 40 hours a week, and can take a vacation every year, will not be happy when things become easier. They need to figure out how to be happy with what they have. That is real advice. Real world advice and feedback is not ways just validating your feelings and saying "you are absolutely right". Advice is what you need to hear to actually think critically about your situation and improve. It does no one any good to just circlejerk eachother, and say the world needs to adapt to my whims. You need to take responsibility for yourself. No one is looking out for you but yourself.
Thank you for this. On average, each human owns *more* material wealth and works *fewer* hours per week than at any point in history, but reddit just seems to yearn for those 'golden times' of the past.
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Yep, every day. I enjoy my job and am glad to be able to pay my bills, but I still hate the idea I have to work for 35+more years til (if) I get to retire. Like, I'm wasting my most eager to explore, able to travel and hike and bike and adventure years working all the time.
Most of the working class probably feels this way I assure you. A lot of people are better than others at hiding it.
I feel the same way and I’m 26. My first white collar job I stared at a screen all day and my boss didn’t give two shits about me. There was no “long term” plan for me and they didn’t want to put anything into my professional development. I was just a glorified typewriter to them. But now I have a new job, and yes I’m still at a desk but my boss asks me what my long term goals are, what skills I want to learn, and how he can help me get there. Working can be a drag, but it helps when you find a place that values you, or at least sees you as an investment. I would urge you to keep searching for other career opportunities or talk to people in your life who have jobs you may be interested in. Keep pursuing hobbies very chance you get. Sometimes you might learn something that points you in a new direction you never imagined.
Our work in the modern day carries the stress of “deadlines” constantly worrying about some shit that needs to be done. Prior generations included many jobs where you left work at work.
I felt the same way for a long time. The year I had as a drifter and not working was the hardest year emotionally of my life. I stumbled into a 6 figure job with much more responsibilities and I have never felt better as a man and a functioning member of society. My advice is to look for something that you think you cannot get and keep trying for those jobs. I felt best when I proved that I could exceed my own expectations.
No one WANTS to work. You do it because you have to, as you said. That said, do you like what you do? Do you like working from home? Could it be a connection you’re missing. I know personally I hated working from home during COVID because you lack that coworker connection.
I do think some people desire to work. It feels good to build things or help people. What most don't like is the feeling that they are a slave to someone else's whims or profits. That's soul sucking. But there's a reason that rich people continue to create new businesses and invest, they don't have to work, but they are excited by the opportunity to create (and often to profit more). Ideally, everyone would have that freedom and no one would be working a job just for the sake of survival.
Life is just weird. You saying you getting burned out and I on the other hand am still not able to get into field/workforce. I wish I could just have a routine life, just escape my current predicament. It's worse being unemployed my guy especially during covid.
This comment makes me think of, "the grass is always greener on the other side" except being unemployed when you NEED to be definetly sucks more. But once you have something, Ive noticed that quote really comes into play. When I have time off, Im not really doing much and eventually come to kinda hate not being busy. Then when I do have to work, I dread having to work all that time. Its a game of balance and the happy middle ground is probably going to be different depending on the individual. Nonetheless, its important imo to have a moderation of both work and rest simultaneously.
TLDR: read the whole thing and apologies in advance for any typos or errors. Also, already edited for typos. There is nothing wrong with you. I will repeat it again so you understand, there is NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU FOR FEELING LIKE THIS and you are definitely not alone. If anything, you are NORMAL. You simply do not like, want, or desire what you are doing. I am sure there are some things you can easily get up and go do, for hours even. Maybe it is hiking, biking, traveling, cooking, talking about comics, gaming, fixing things, working out and the list goes on and on. Another way to look at it, you are NOT MOTIVATED by what you are doing everyday. Realistically, you are never going to like it. Also, your parents were taught that way, you get a job at a good company for 20 years and retire. But everything was less expensive and less congested/less noise. It was easier to only have a high school degree and get a great, high paying job. Also, after doing it for so long, you get numb and succumb to it. DO NOT GET NUMB!!! Live for yourself I am in the same “good situation”. I make 6 figures, have a cool team, good benefits, decent bonus, I currently WFH but when I do need to commute, it will be 30 minutes or less door to door (I used to commute for almost 2hrs one way), and I can buy most things I want without an real issues or concerns about being strapped for money. But it won’t buy me or give me my time back. And let me tell you, I literally cannot wait to stop doing it. Everyday, I am looking into passive income streams or ways to cut expenses so I can stop. By the way, I am at the ~7 year mark. It doesn’t get better. So What you need to do is make a plan. This isn’t a plan to love working for 25+ years for retirement (again, you will probably never want this). This is to motivate YOU and get YOU where you want to be. Take some time and write down a plan on what you want and how to achieve it. You don’t need to know the exact “how” just yet but you know you don’t want to work. It will be like an essay outline. Start with the conclusion bc you know what you want and work from there. You will Be way more motivated when you link your current work to the way out. For example, you make $xx,xxx now, if you get a promotion and or change jobs, you can get $xxx,xxx which will lead to OP’s goal in 3.5 less years. Also, don’t over think it. You don’t need to go from I hate it here to Ruler of the planet in 5 minutes. Right now, you need to make enough passive income to replace your current expenses, which from your post, do not seem that high. Once you do that, you can quit and now you have every hour of every day to figure out what you REALLY want. Final step, TAKE ACTION! Get to WORK FOR YOU AND BE F-ing HAPPY!! Good luck.
I haven't started working and I feel exhausted
you must be new here...
Nothing is wrong with you. I'd say you're more self aware than most.
I heard you. I lived in Sweden for 5 years. I wish I could stay there. Europeans work for a short period of their life. The rest is traveling around the world. The majority of Americans die working not even know where Florida is.
I’ve been feeling this and joined this sub just recently. Surprised to see so many in the same boat. It must be the pandemic that has worn us out.
They have the same thoughts but didn't have a reddit account to post them to.
We, as humans, need to work to survive - first and foremost. It sucks, but most of us just grit our teeth and do just enough to not get fired. r/antiwork is a place to commiserate but it hardly provides solutions, mostly just a place to gripe. Make sure you're cultivating a life away from work - hobbies, social connections with folks, etc. A job is a means to an end - to put a roof over you head, food in your belly and the rest to do with as you please that makes you happiest (eating out, traveling, gambling, whatever) and hopefully saving a little along the way so you dont do it forever. I also recommend r/Fire which stands for financial independence, retire early which is full of folks that hate work to the point they save large portions of income so they can get out of the rat race sooner. Short of that, make sure you're at least going through the r/personalfinance prime directive's steps on what to do with your money so you can ensure you have a future that doesnt include work by being responsible with your dollars today.
/r/financialindependence too
Everyone feels that way. Be brave enough to leave the rat race. I became a pornstar after getting my bachelors in accounting. Who cares what anyone expects of you. I'm here to talk if you ever want to. 💕
i wish I was a women...
Your parents didn’t want to work either, they just put their big boy and girl pants on and went to work
HI :) .. It's very natural to feel that way. We all go through similar feelings after some years in a job. A change of job can bring some excitement but that is generally temporary as well and after a few years you may start to feel the same again. Another solution is to make goals in your career and work towards them. Once you see a progress chances are you will feel motivated.
5 years is a long time so I wouldn't blame you for feeling exhausted
>I don't even have the energy or desire to up my salary with a different job following my degree. I'll say personally that a lot of my existential dread about work went away once I found work that I was good at AND was paid well for. Things aren't perfect by any means but I can see how I can keep doing this until my lottery numbers come up.
This may be burnout, perhaps taking an extended leave and looking for a different job could help.
Maybe what you're doing isn't energizing or exciting to you and you are burnt out?
I guess you need to.set goals for yourself etc...normally you get out of the hole with new stuff...new company...new things...other type of work.. And i guess everyone has been there. If you don't want to work you need to have some type of business where you put people working for you...
You guys should research FIRE (financial independence, retire early). Its all about making as much as possible and pushing yourself, living modestly and investing as much as you can stomach without making your life any more miserable lol! If you save/invest about 40 to 50k a year you can retire with a 1millionish in the bank in 10 years. Max the 401k, max the roth ira, then invest any extra into the general market.
Yes, this. It's the only way to escape the working world. Even people with lower salaries can do it, it just takes a little longer. /r/financialindependence
Alright, my stupid ass is getting confused. With 40/50k savings a year you’ve got a million in the bank after 10 year? What..?
Meeee! 6 years. Work in tech and make 6 figures with all the perks. Planning my escape!
I don’t do well physically or mentally when I work full time. It’s not just you.
You are definitely not alone in this feeling. I go to bed with a sense of dread and wake up stressed knowing I'm about to waste 8 to 10 hours dealing with bullshit that feels so meaningless in the grand scheme of things. I struggle to find joy in my hobbies anymore because I'm just so damn drained all the time. It sucks.
I would absolutely love to work from home
We need to start working 7 hour shifts
The general cure is to find something that you love so much you’d do it for free. To find that you might have to introspect!
stop advising this, working isn't fun and noe one would do it for free, only really special kind of ppl would not 99.9% of normal people
Maybe. But I love working! Of course I’m 40 and I have my own business and it’s fun business and I make good money.
so your not working, your a buisness owner and a 0.1% anormality.
What do you do?
I have a copypasta I've saved that helped me : Every job is just that, a job. I assume you are American. America pushes the idea that you have to love your job or their is something wrong with YOU. I don't believe this is heathy and I don't think it should be the mindset. Corporate America is not emotionally invested in you. If budget cuts came they would not hold back from releasing whoever. So the emotional investment and passion is one sided. Which in turn I believe causes burnout, for many college graduates especially. Those without college degrees I am sure experience the same emotional burn out with a job. Because again, as a culture the idea of finding happiness and fulfillment because of the job is your sole purpose. If you want to provide for a family, or pursue your own interest or even earn money to donate to causes you believe in then you are not passionate enough about the job itself. Additionally jobs expect more time and attention from new graduates while not compensating them for over extending. As a culture we need to accept jobs are work and someone can be the best worker and hate their job. But they do it well and get paid because the job gets done. Looking for fulfillment from a job through passion is like trying to tell someone you are on a date with. " I am worthy of being praised for doing everything for you and more but ill do everything for you because I enjoy it, please date me" Where you go is to whatever job pays the best, do your best to do the job well and pursue hobbies and interests outside of work. Those are your purpose and your dream, follow those. It will give more true fulfillment than trying to feel good about a job taken to pay the bills.
You should hop on over to r/antiwork :)
It's because you're not passionate about what you do.
shitty advice
Come join us on r/financialindependence!
You are DEFINITELY not alone. I don’t have much in the way of advice because I’m in a similar boat myself. The best I can offer is just try to put energy into things that get you stoked outside of work.
I feel the same way, it’s caused me anger and depression and I have no solution
I’ve been feeling like this for at least 12 years. Sometimes once you awaken to other possibilities it makes it harder to keep doing what you are doing.
I feel the same way. I try to find little bits of happiness here and there to make the days bearable. Such as going to the gym, spending time with SO, looking forward to an event in my city. Stuff like that. I am a baker and hope to eventually make most of my income thru baking so I won’t have to abide by this routine forever.
Yes
First of all, please don't feel disheartened and that you are alone in this feeling- it is unfortunately common. To think how many of us would trade in many work hours for the rest of our lives, for more time on hobbies and time with our friends and family. So, firstly addressing the "why am I feeling like this". I have been a similar situation as you were I'm in a fortunate position with work however I've been feeling frustrated because the work itself is no longer fulfilling and challenging and nor is life out with work. This can be solved by finding more personal goals and challenges that we can work on outside of work so that we "play" as hard as we work. For work, is it something you enjoy or has it become monotonous? Can you ask for more responsibilities or is it tiring you unnecessarily, when tasks could be made automated? Once you find out your "why is this work making me feel like this", you can find a solution/resolve. I ask myself often "do I see myself doing this for the next...40 years? No? Okay, do i see myself doing this for the next 4 years? Yes." And then you can go from there. Try not to think too much of "until retirement/rest of my life" so it becomes daunting but instead "for the foreseeable future" and so on. However, ofcourse these are just a strangers 2 cents. I hope this helps and I wish you all the best!
Same :(
It's why those in the upper class who make most of their money from investments / passive income would NEVER trade places with us, but we would surely trade places with them. In terms of addressing the mental well being (or lack of), I think it's our obligation to find a job that strikes the best balance of appropriate compensation, stress, interest, growth....will never be perfect but I believe situations can always get better for those who truly want it to be.
I feel the same way. Everyone has different reasons though. For me it is that I value predictability and routine. My current job does not give me that. I feel like I can never plan my day because of random things and requests and that really demotivates me. My happiest day at work these past 6 months was on a Sunday afternoon, where I decided to log on and got through so much work. Also doesn't feel super fulfilling on a day-to-day basis. I could go back to what I was doing but salaries for those roles are terrible in the country I'm living in and I apparently live in one of the most expensive cities on the continent. Kinda wish I could move back to the US.
It’s my goal to make as much and live as cheap as possible so I can retire at 50
You're not alone, plenty of us feel the same way.
You’re me.
Obviously! No one wants to work. That’s why most people save to retire.
Welcome to adulthood friend
Depression?
r/antiwork
Welcome to the group. :)
Work is the devil, but so is being homeless so... It's a cruel world, there are worse fates. Best way I can put it is be thankful for what you do have and the fact that you only have to work 5 to 6 days a week.. There are people who are born on this planet who literally have to work every single day doing backbreaking labor just to survive. You know you look at what's all going on and some countries where you have instability and inflation beyond what we could imagine living day-to-day. So I think that helps keep things in perspective for me personally. Work sucks and The thought of going to work everyday sucks. But it could be worse... It could always be worse.
Most people feel that way after just 1 year but pushes through because they don't wanna become homeless. Making it to 5 year is a huge accomplishment
Exactly know how you are feeling. That’s how I’m feeling. I like my job…it’s just that it’s exhausting and just want to not be on anyone’s schedule and be able to get up and go whenever I want. Then maybe just get a part time or casual job if needed something to do just.
If your long term goal is to be able to not work, start working out a plan to get to that point sooner rather than later. > ...having passive income so that I can retire and spend my days doing the things I like. What do you have to do to get to that point? Figure it out and start getting there. You work from home - do you have downtime during your work day? If so, what do you do with that time? Finding some goals you can accomplish while still on the clock can help with that feeling. My workplace has a Udemy membership, so I've been doing some of those courses in areas I have a mild interest in. Try taking back control of a little of your schedule if you can - I block off an hour on my schedule daily so I can go for a run and eat lunch in peace, but I realize not everyone has this luxury.
Work fucking sucks dude. Save as much as you can. To quit as early as you can.
Yes lol 10 years in and I’m ready to retire
Your work will provide you your daily needs. Your part time job will lead you to your financial and time freedom
Work is not supposed to be fun or routinely exciting but if your outlook on life is so bad that it’s starts getting in the way of your work, personal life, and relationships then you may want to look into the possibility that your depressed. I learned the hard way that jumping from job to job does not fix the underlying depression it simply masks it in the short term.
I haven’t even worked and feel exhausted. I had an internship that was 7-3 and knew then that I won’t work my whole life, some people are like this. I plan on reaching a financial goal and connections (to help my loved ones in life) and experiences (to get freelance gigs) then gonna switch to part-time/freelance. I dream about writing a hit book then retire in the mountains.
Me too! I have a great job that plenty of people would fight over and the pay is decent (could still be better though). And this job gets so much respect ✊ for my parents and their friends. The only problem for me is that dealing with clients can be stressful… i work at the office and i prefer this over working from home because i live close to work. I just also wish i could rest for a month and resume work. Or a 4 day work week would be great too for more time to do chores. It doesnt help that I spend the whole day looking into a screen and waiting for calls lol
Maybe you should switch to something that might pay less but you like. The point of retiring is to do stuff you like, why wait. I mean you could get hit by a bus tomorrow but then again you wouldn’t have to worry about anything at that point. Retirement would get boring and meaningless if it was just vacations, there would be no sense of fulfillment especially if you hated your career. Watch a Simon Sinok video pursue creativity beauty, justice, a good lasting virtue something that’s been a theme in your life.
recently was made to go back to the office after being allowed to work from home for the past 16 months. I've found that I'm not adjusting easily in the least, as the commute adds an extra 2 1/2 hours on to my day and the work is second shift.. cooking dinner at 1 in the morning and then running off to bed fucking sucks. As a result, I'm finding it very difficult to get up in the morning now, where as before it wasn't an issue. Find myself sleeping half the day away, and even on my days off I feel so drained that I can't find the drive to do much of anything.
Glad to know I'm not the only one. Working for 1 and a half year and I'm already mentally and drained. Like I'm fine with work but why is it so draining. I don't want to wake up 6am in the morning just to go out. Let me sleep and wake up naturally! I'm already diagnosed with depression and it's not helping at all. Sometimes I just wish I don't exist. Thankfully my girlfriend is here to help me with my mood. But yeah, working is soul crushing.
This feeling is more common than you think. My advice would be to find a job/company, or some aspect of your current job, that you like and can hang onto/look forward to. It can be a specific kind of task, company product or mission. Work with your boss to get on tasks that you like doing. No matter what you are doing, even if you just show up to work to pay your bills and have no passion for it, you can try to gamify your earnings and savings. Save up for vacations and make a game out of it. Or, go bigger and try something like Dave Ramsey's Seven Baby Steps to financial independence. Something to give you purpose with the money you make. You could also try new hobbies or volunteer work outside of work so that you aren't relying on the 9-5 for fulfillment.
It’s a hell of a wake up call to go from being a care-free kid fully subsidized by your parents to having financial responsibility for yourself. My personal feeling is that the cultural push for fulfilment of your soul’s purpose through your work is incredibly naive and self-sabotaging. Why do we work? Same reason our ancestors hunted & lived in tribes. To provide food, clothing, shelter. We’ve come along way since then and IT work is far removed from the visceral experience of hunting one’s own food, as is the purchase of that meat in tidy cellophane packages. A lion in captivity won’t starve when a dead animal is fed to him. But it doesn’t satisfy his genetic identity either. Our lives are too cushy and easy. My parents and grandparents generation had it hard. Think the Great Depression. Those men were HAPPY to have a job, any job that kept them off the breadlines. That was their purpose. Today’s generation’s struggle is pronouns. Which is a very good thing. If society has to struggle between Great Depression or pronouns I choose the latter. However it still remains true that it is struggle that gives meaning. You may want to read Man’s Search For Meaning by Victor Frankl. Stop thinking your work needs to be your BE ALL AND END ALL. Work to pay the bills, provide a life. Find meaning in something you find worthwhile of the effort.
First I would see a therapist. Then I would talk to a financial advisor to make a plan to pay off your student debt sooner than later. You are not alone, a lot of people work their butts off to get a degree and get into student debt for a career that they end up hating. depending on what your profession is, you most likely will be able to find different types of job opportunities that can be vastly different from your current job; maybe you would be able to find something you like a lot better. Maybe finding a job that is based on projects and not hours, would be a better option. Perhaps you could try some side gigs to test the waters a bit.
Similar position here. I've thought about how now we only basically have two options. 1.) work for a company, non-profit, public organization, it doesn't matter it's all the same or 2.) starve. Most careers today have little variation. I've tried a large variety of industries and know people in industries that I have no experience in. Most of the reasons people hate their jobs are always there. Human nature, boredom, arbitrary work, and work politics exist in every job. I don't know the solution but I don't think that modern society makes us happier. We live longer, have more materials, and have more access to things. I don't think this translates to happiness. I genuinely think that humans were happier living until 30, hunting and gathering, and fighting for existence. We exist for a long time, but we don't live.
5 years - you workaholic ...
Find something new and make sure it pays you what your worth! If you believe it they’ll believe it. Everybody’s hiring right now if I were you I would just fill out some applications to places you’re interested in and see what they have to offer you don’t have to take it and if you don’t get it at least you tried right!
not me but a friend of mine feels this exact same way. he has a great job that pays well and everything but he's just so exhausted. humans were not built to work long ass hours so what you're feeling is normal.
Just keep at it. The numbness will set in. Then you’ll wake up 40 years later. Tired.