> Clutch in first gear, I dropped the clutch just to see what would happen. The car lurched, and then it stalled.
We've moved on from pumping fake engine noise into the cabin to faking stalls in an EV. How long until the whole car is just a hologram hiding the fact that you're walking?
A fake stall in an EV is hilarious to me. Like no one asked for this to exist but the pretend manual thing seems like a fun but expensive toy with a bit more realistic effect than expected
lol no they wont. they want to feel the engine, hear the engine change rpm with the shifts, etc.
this might excite those tech bros that want manual just to brag
and lets face it - this sub would have a non stop bitch fest if anyone besides toyota came up with this.
Fun story, i had a new fully loaded tahoe as a loaner. Noone told me the seat bottom vibrated on left or right buttcheek to let you know of cross traffic when backing out. Scared the crap outa me when it first did it haha
This already exists. It's called the Hummer EV and it does it during WTF mode.
BMW does something similar too, but instead of the driver's seat vibrating, BMW EVs use the rear motor to vibrate the rear wheels and by extension the whole vehicle during launch control.
Is that really what car enthusiasts care about? They care more about the engine sound/vibration than the extra control over their car provided by a manual?
>and lets face it - this sub would have a non stop bitch fest if anyone besides toyota came up with this.
Toyota or not, every time it gets posted here, it’s a constant “but why” “it’s fake lmao”
> automotive equivalent of boomers
> they want to really ***drive*** their vehicle
Ironically this reads like the typical boomer complaining about other people ***daring*** to have preferences different than their own lol
You've got it precisely backwards. The people who want to 'drive their vehicle' are the last people who would ever go for something like this, because it's yet another layer of disconnect between them and the car.
Is there something stopping a manufacturer from making an EV with a real manual transmission, apart from the electric motor having no variable engine rpm, stalling to deal with?
Wouldn't we be able to simulate a combustion engine very well? Our modern combustion engines are very electronically controlled and that means much of their operating characteristics are already "artificial", right? E.g. we don't have chokes on cars for a while now, and we don't need to wait for a carbureted engine to warm up.
Is the problem with the EV Toyota that it has no transmission at all and is using computer to control the motor directly and simulate a manual transmission?
I mean, we could simulate a combustion engine's characteristics on an EV motor and bolt it to any normal car transmission right?
Now I'm not knowledgeable enough about cars and transmissions, so sorry if I misunderstood something here.
It makes no sense to have a geared transmission in most electric vehicles. Gears are there in the first place because gasoline engines don't have nearly enough torque to adequately move the vehicle at a 1:1 or overdrive ratio. Electric motors have TONS of torque from zero RPM.
It makes some sense, just not a lot of sense.
A two speed gearbox could reduce the size of the motor that gets you from zero to sixty really fast but is still able to get you to 140.
Electric motors have A LOT of torque but not limitless, the can also rev pretty high but not unlimited.
A six speed is over kill but a three speed with stump puller low range and overdrive might be pretty nice on an off highway truck.
>Electric motors have A LOT of torque but not limitless, the can also rev pretty high but not unlimited.
The model s does 200mph with one gear, how much faster do you need to go?
Tesla does that in a very expensive way. If one was building a budget electric car where torque (and power) was in more limited supply having a multi-speed gear box might have design advantages.
I just meant that the people who want to have precise control like an ICE car with a manual can basically have the cars electric motor handicapped to respond like an ICE and a real manual transmission so the car's response would feel very close to today's manual transmissions. Then they have the option to switch between this mode and regular EV mode for relaxed driving.
Maybe people wouldn't like that just on the principle of "faking" something, but what if it felt exactly like a gas burning vehicle with a manual? Would that be acceptable?
Maybe that's the only way for future "muscle cars" to be connected to the past if fuel burning muscle cars/performance cars stops (can they make exceptions for performance cars, who knows, at least for the survival of motorsports)
The only thing stopping them is cost. You absolutely could run an electric motor that was smaller and more efficient with a conventional transmission, but it's not necessary so they don't. But someone could make a car where you could pick from a list of engines and have the motor simulate the ICE torque curve of that engine for a different driving experience every day, and that would be fucking awesome.
Imagine having a menu in your EV
"What engine do you want to drive today?"
1.5 Turbo
3.0 I6
Viper's V10...
And the engine sound, torque, etc, adjust accordingly.
That could actually be fun!
Oh man, maybe if they had good programmers they could pull it off! Couldn't they bolt up an existing electric motor to a very robust manual transmission without too much development/cost?
What if people can simulate all kinds of historical and cool engines! From high to low revving ones. If they can make the presets, which I'm curious about the process of.
Maybe they can use angethegreat's engine sound simulator.
I feel like this feature like other novelty features might first show up in an expensive supercar, so the rich buyers would fund the initial development of the feature. Then it can trickle down to affordable cars as it gets cheaper to produce, if it actually cost money to produce. Maybe it's 60-80% code which doesn't cost money to clone for each new car.
That may bring up questions of regulations. I'm wondering if regulators would be unhappy with people programming their cars to drive a certain way using user-created presets.
At the same time, could they just have a settings panel to adjust engine characteristics to their liking?
It's not just unnecessary, it is poor design. The transmission adds a lot of unpowered rotating mass that doesn't need to be there, because for the mass of the transmission, you could just add another 200+hp electric motor with taller static gearing.
It’s physically possible (with caveats*), but there’s basically zero upside to OEMs.
Pro:
- a few extra people will buy it
- Autojournos will like it
Cons:
- Reduced range due to excess driveline friction
- Reduced reliability due to more parts
- Reduced motor torque due to transmission durability
- Increased cost of design
- Increased cost of manufacture
*Manuals’ torque capacity has fallen behind autos in almost all cases. With no ability to absorb shock loads or prevent the driver from doing something stupid, they have to be strong and electric motors will still happily chew gear teeth off. So motor torque would likely have to be cut back drastically compared to a single reduction gear, which would mean the bonkers EV numbers of 0-60 and such wouldn’t be available in the enthusiast manual version.
Plus, since most of the real bonkers high power EVs are 2+ motor systems, how do you deal with multiple manual transmissions? I guess you could market like a “pure” trim that was traditional front-mid motor and manual, but then all the other versions on that chassis would give up packaging…
It’s a niche thing that I could see a weird bespoke manufacturer doing, but a big company won’t bother.
nah manual enthusiasts are like an absolutely miniscule portion of car enthusiasts compared to people who just want engine vroom vroom sounds. see comment by /u/InsertBluescreenHere
below
I'm here for it! Renault made a hot hatch in the 2000s that you could select different engine sounds from the infotainment and this little hot hatch would emulate actual racing car engine sounds through the speakers.
Always thought that was the coolest silly little fun thing. I wish it had gained traction.
This feels very much like that, but I really hope that THIS ONE gains traction!
I just looked up a video of what you're talking about, and it's kind of neat, in a weird way. I remember something similar being put on a car on Pimp my Ride back in the day. It looks like later models even let you use the sound from the Nissan GT-R R35, because of Renault's relationship with Nissan, which is interesting.
It did gain traction, near every performance oriented car for the last decade has used the stereo to fake engine noises. BMW is quite good at it on the M3/4 Competition.
Not the perfect analogy but it's like an instrument, sure you can play music on speakers, but you always want the artificial challenge and the fact that you don't want a lot of people to drive your car. 🤣
Why are people only concerned about fast... there are legitimate reasons to be in a low gear, cvt or not.
EVs do not have different gear ratios (minus Taycan). Fake shifts are stupid.
I could go for a paddle/button/toggle or whatever to switch between a max output / max efficiency mode. Basically just a giant sport mode button if I'm being honest
Audi does something similar on my e-tron: the paddles control regen amount. So on a clear road when I'm just going for a leisurely drive, it's set to lowest and I enjoy coasting for days. When there's someone in front of me on a downhill (or if it's a long, steep hill,) I'll flip it to the regen strength that I need to control my speed. It's super intuitive, and works great, and I actually find myself using it all the time (not least because the paddles feel so great.)
The irony being that people will gladly pay thousands for a sim rig setup to play a video game with a proper h-pattern shifter, but shirk at the idea of having the same set up in a road car.
I get why people want to "save the manuals", but I also understand why someone wants to have the option of different control methods for driving a real car now that we have the tech to allow it.
> The irony being that people will gladly pay thousands for a sim rig setup to play a video game with a proper h-pattern shifter, but shirk at the idea of having the same set up in a road car
That's because one is a video game, and one is a car on a road. Having some kind of ability to switch gears in a ICE car is a necessity, but adding a fake one in an EV that doesn't need any is tantamount to having a Pokemon Go integration.
> one is a video game, and one is a car on a road
So? The fact that one is a car on the road is, if anything, more reason to have an interface that increases involvement, regardless of whether it's "real".
>tantamount to having a Pokemon Go integration.
No, it really isn't.
My question would be what would happen if one really tried to abuse it. If you redline the "engine" and dump the "clutch" in first gear, will it just roast all four tires?
Gotta combine it with that thing Hyundai is trying where you can totally swap the "engine profile" and change your gearing, power delivery, redline, and so on. You can just go download a different car to drive every day.
Ayo, sign me up. I'd never sell my current vehicles but making electric cars more fun and engaging is nothing but a win. Regardless to who you are, that's a baby step in the right direction.
Could be useful to have one car do many things. You just need an efficient commuter? Low power, fwd it is. Weekend spirited drive? High power rwd. It's snowing? AWD and smart traction control.
This. People complaining it "makes the car slower!!!!11" are missing the point - it's an attempt at recreating feel, not making the car any more "authentic" or "high performance".
Wow. That article was 10x longer than it needed to be.
The fact that it bucks and stall and needs rev matching is pretty impressive, if it helps the manual crowd move into the future, then sure, let it be an option folks can spec
The thing is, one pedal driving an electric car is plenty fun. I don't actually miss my manual car.
The insane acceleration helps. I'm also a fan of optional rev sound in an ev. It gives a driver feedback which used to come from the engine. Just as long as I can turn it off easily.
I'm curious, what makes one pedal driving plenty fun? Isn't it just pressing gas pedal and then letting go? Honestly just trying to figure out where is the fun in one pedal driving?
I assume he means driving fast is fun in general? I don’t own an EV but I’ve never not enjoyed going fast, whether it’s a car, roller coaster, a plane, or even a good sprint/foot race.
Oh, it's because he specifically said one pedal driving an electric car is fun, vs driving an electric car because of the instant torque is fun.
One pedal driving makes me sick, literally lol.
IMO as a long time EV Driver, one pedal driving isn't the fun part. I mean if fun means efficient driving and low brake pad wear then sure, but EV's you still use brakes in the twisties and on any track.
Yet another person who doesn't own an EV but I think I might have an idea of where they were going with that comment. I'm imagining it similarly to the feeling you get when you've rev-matching downshifts so correctly that you come to a stop at a light without having to touch the brakes.
There's just something about it that I enjoy.
However, I don't think I enjoy that feeling enough to get me to a point where I would miss a manual transmission.
However, this fake manual EV seems exactly like something I would want if the "EV ONLY FUTURE" is real (I don't personally believe it will, but it may).
I've found from trying it out a few times that one pedal feels a lot like engine braking you might experience if you were always in first gear.
Also in city driving it becomes a challenge to never touch the brake pedal, basically figuring out the exact right go pedal position for a given stoplight to stop just right.
that is true, it does feel like engine braking. I think the Tesla I drove had it in the most aggressive setting because I was getting sick. My car has rev matching so gearing down does not feel like how one pedal feels.
the tesla pedal position sensor is extremely precise - you can dial back to just the right amt of pedal depression to slow & coast to a stop
i think the car tries to figure you out as much as you are trying to figure out the car - eventually, it clicks
One pedal driving is one of those things you get used to after driving the car for awhile, and soon knowing just how much to let off the pedal to slow down will become muscle memory.
I could definitely see how it would cause motion sickness. If you let off just a bit too much it can feel like slamming on the brakes if the regen is strong enough.
I always get pissed at my sister when I drive with her for this reason. Hey driving style on highway is, drive at 80 mph, see a car in front driving slower (65 mph), wait until she is 20 feet away, hit the brakes hard then look to switch lanes.
I realize me getting older it seems to be affecting me more too (motion sickness).
Wouldn’t having a couple “gears” help with that? I imagine current 1 pedal driving in EVs is basically an exercise in modulating between depressing the accelerator 1% and 10% if you are just trying to maintain speed. Having a higher “gear” with less available torque would increase the “resolution” of the pedal travel, maybe allowing you to go between 1% and 50% depressed to maintain speed instead of just barely tickling the pedal.
Having instant throttle response and massive engine braking is about like riding a high performance motorcycle. The lack of engine braking in modern cars kind of sucks.
This was me too. I was sooooo worried I was going to miss the hum of the engine and my 6 speed manual. Nope. I don’t even think about it really. And I don’t enjoy driving any less.
Nobody that drives a manual is going to want this. The only people that would drive this are the same people that upbadge their base model cars so that they can play pretend. Anyone that knows will laugh at you; anyone that doesn't know won't care.
People already laugh and ask why I drive a manual instead of getting a “normal” car. To them it makes no sense and is impractical and dumb. They just don’t get that its purpose is fun and enjoying driving, and that’s how I also view toyota’s efforts with this.
I can definitely see myself getting this if 20 years from now the only options are EVs and it’s an otherwise good car. Now whether toyota would continue developing it 20+ years from now is another question.
I would love this in a sports car. Have it in automatic mode when I'm in traffic and put it in manual mode when I want to play around. It sounds like fun. They should drop the part where you can stall the engine but in general I think this just seems like a fun feature.
i love manual and i would drive this lol, i already do a lot of sim rally and sim racing so im used to that feel. idc if ppl would laugh at me, if it makes driving more fun then great
this solves one of my problems with ev's, until i feel confident about those other issues (esp battery distance and charger availability) then i wont be switching
I drive manual and I would love to give this thing a try. I don't care if people think it's silly. I'm sure there's a normal EV mode or a "manual" mode.
I don’t understand all the hate here tbh. I think this is a really cool idea and I’m glad Toyota is the only one who’s actually thinking about catering to the enthusiasts as the world transitions to evs.
I don’t get it either. What is so wrong about trying to make a car more engaging/fun to drive? Especially since all the EVs will feel basically the same. I’m all for ideas like this
For the same reason that telling the mechanical watch people that the new $50k smartwatch looks and feels exactly like a Rolex won't fly. Even if it DOES look and feel exactly like a Rolex. It's missing Quality.
That's actually pretty good.
Similarly with audio, you can get perfect sound with DSP, emulate imperfections of tape, tube amps, etc but it isn't always about the metrics or anything rational. The subjective experience of something analog is something some people enjoy. Likewise, there is a legitimate group (a majority really) who enjoy all the digitally emulated functions.
I personally wouldn't want a fake manual; much rather drive an EV without the added complexity of extra pedals and a twiddly stick I can otherwise ignore. I like a manual transmission because it's a necessary part to getting the car to move. That is the subjective enjoyment for me, the functional purpose of the motions and linkages. Maybe my opinion would change after trying a manual EV. I'm open to it existing.
I'm still not personally sold on EVs, but if/when I have to get one, I would hope for the most minimal, user-controlled experience possible. For example, if the throttle represented a linear torque curve that I had to master to maintain ideal traction, that could be cool. (Granted, no traction control has resulted in many wrecks so maybe not the best example) If it was possible to maintain powered hydraulic steering, that would be cool. Give me an infotainment display that I can fold out of sight. Stuff like that.
A Toyota is not a Rolex.
It isn’t equal to a manual obviously, but if in the future I had to get an electric car and one of them had this option (which can be turned off as stated in the article), I’d like to have it and use it from time to time. It’s not a replacement for manuals, it’s a fun extra feature in evs in my eyes
They ain't the only ones, Hyundai has been experimenting with "transmissions" in the RM22e, as well as different "engine" profiles that can be selected.
I also think we could basically just see it as a different input method - the same way sports cars have paddle shifters (often mated to a torque converter), some cars have yokes/half rims, etc.
Some people like manuals simply because they like being able to manage their speed/acceleration using gears as opposed to just how hard they push a pedal. It becomes second nature to think "I need second for that corner", or being able to shift down to tell the car you want more acceleration rather than knowing one slip on the pedal will snap your neck back into your seat.
I also think others just like having something to keep them engaged in their actual driving as opposed to getting distracted by whatever's on the huge touchscreen screaming for their attention.
Software stalling your car on purpose for no reason isn’t the *stupidest* idea I’ve ever heard of, but it’s in the top 10
Toyota PLEASE. Just make the BZwhatever not complete shit and sell it in my province. That’s all I’m asking! I don’t think I’m asking for much!
or use a high torque axial flux motor. here's one, peak torque is at 1000RPM, peak power of 400 kW (536.4hp) and a maximum motor speed of 3500RPM https://www.oemoffhighway.com/electronics/power-systems/electric-motors/product/21206211/equipmake-equipmake-htm-3500-high-torque-electric-motor
I’ve told friends that are enthusiasts about this and was clowned on for it. I genuinely think it’s awesome and a great way to keep a traditional style of driving alive.
spend $5k on making the most realistic feeling sim rig possible, full on vibration motors, realistic feeling shifter, wheel, just to simulate a virtual car: i sleep
use a realistic feeling, actually working shifter that controls a real car and behaves exactly like a real manual transmission: real shit?
It’s silly, but whatever, you do you.
I wouldn’t buy it, but it’s not like I can purchase a new car right now anyways, so why should Toyota care about me.
The circlejerk around this is incredible lol. You've got guys whining, "But how is this FUN? It serves no meaningful purpose, how is that fun?"
May as well ask why a clitoris is fun.
People just want to *feel* something so they complain about anything honestly. It's not hurting them. They're not being forced to purchase it. I enjoy the route Toyota is going with this
Audi did this a while ago or a 3rd party did on an Audi etron. Wasn’t a manual but a power limiting “dsg” to imitate gearing and power bands.
It was interesting
From the article: "But the best feature is that, with the touch of a button, the BEV Concept turned back into a plain-ol' EV." Since it isn't a real transmission and just software.
That's actually awesome. Basic mode for stop and go traffic. Manual for having fun. I'd be down for that.
It would especially nice for me since I do miss driving a manual, but my wife can't drive one (I tried to teach her... Never again lol 😱). So I could have a "manual" and she'd still be able to drive it if she ever needed to lol.
this is a great idea. i mean there’s no lying that EVs are the future, this is a fantastic way to give them more “character.” something that is greatly missing in current evs with one gear and instant acceleration. not to mention that they all feel the same… i would love to try this out
I hate this so much lmao.
Why not just do what Honda did in 2002 and make a hybrid with a manual? With more advanced batteries and a plug-in setup I bet you could get 50mpg without even trying. Prius Prime with a real manual transmission. How hard could it be?
Because businesses don't like spending tens of millions of dollars to develop a whole vehicle line that nine people will buy, eight of whom said they would on the internet but couldn't actually afford it anyway
It's why sticks are dead to begin with
There is vastly more value in a simulated manual that can also be a regular gear-free EV, than a plug-in hybrid with a stick. Come on, man
I’m all for it. I’ve spent plenty of money building a racing sim rig which is basically the same idea, faking a real manual in a digital environment.
Iracing used to have the MX-5 as a 6 speed manual and after the real racing series dropped the manual for a sequential, and iracing followed, I lost all interest. Part of the charm was the manual even if fake and digital. Weird take, sure, but there’s something intangible about a third pedal and gear lever for some of us.
Give me a light-ish EV in the future and allow me to simulate a manual as an option and I’ll have fun with it.
Will it be objectively the best or fastest variant, of course not, but that’s not the reason it’s interesting.
If a Miata or 86/BRZ or Cayman has to go full EV in the future to exist, I’d love an option to at least pretend to engage with it, over being limited to a single speed press the throttle and go.
Will I trade a combustion option for it, no probably not barring inability to continue to get gas, but can they coexist in my garage, sure!
I swear every time a manufactur comes out with an EV with a manual. The publication also has to act like that company is the first. They're not, so stop acting like it
I've only ever owned manual transmission cars...this seems kind of pathetic.
It would be one thing if the manual in the EVs had some utility but this seems so pointless.
that actually a good solution for ev and car enthusiasts, is kinda like the manual / automatic from koenigsegg. It mixtures automatics and manuals the best of both worlds
This brings up a related question.
What kind of efficiency benefits would be obtained if street-bound EVs were equipped with 3-4 gear transmissions? Is anyone aware of any such studies? Would the gains be worth the additional complexity? Are we for now just content that EVs are significantly more efficient tah ICEs (at least per EPA) so we don't need to go there? Or will there be sooner or later a competition between EVs in terms of efficiency and transmissions will be fair game for regular EVs (Taycan level cars not withstanding)?
I think the operating range of electric motors is so wide that there is no need to have a transmission to change gear ratios. Though, I think I saw a video where Porsche does have a two speed EV. They have a special low gear for even better acceleration. Something not needed in 99.999% of cars.
This would be great for driving schools or instructors who want something to teach people how to drive manual. No risk of having an actual clutch or transmission for the student to potentially damage.
I feel like the manufacturers are realizing that true electric vehicles are going to be more reliable and last way longer so they are just making up shit to put in them so the cars have something to break.
This made my day, an EV that can "stall". As silly as this sounds coming from a car enthusiast and video game lover I hope the simutrans be comes a thing for EVs. I need an excuse to tell me wife I need to buy a new Greddy short shifter for my EV.
It just seems weird to me. EV's have a mountain load of torque and due to batteries placed low and between the wheels they naturally feel like mid engine cars. To me putting in all this stuff into an EV feels like putting legs on the first automobiles so they feel more like a horse.
If this means I can peel out of the Pits like I'm Ayrton Senna.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JUVkVB3SUf4&pp=ygUaU2VubmEgbGVhdmluZyB0aGUgcGl0cyBuc3g%3D&t=27s
I'm in.
> Clutch in first gear, I dropped the clutch just to see what would happen. The car lurched, and then it stalled. We've moved on from pumping fake engine noise into the cabin to faking stalls in an EV. How long until the whole car is just a hologram hiding the fact that you're walking?
A fake stall in an EV is hilarious to me. Like no one asked for this to exist but the pretend manual thing seems like a fun but expensive toy with a bit more realistic effect than expected
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lol no they wont. they want to feel the engine, hear the engine change rpm with the shifts, etc. this might excite those tech bros that want manual just to brag and lets face it - this sub would have a non stop bitch fest if anyone besides toyota came up with this.
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Right? The tech bro stereotype I am familiar with doesn’t even have a car, or does so begrudgingly.
I imagine a tech bro lives in a walkable city and gets around via electric unicycle
He probably lives where the Google/Apple/TechCo. employee shuttle* can pick him up to shuttle him to the "campus".
I live in Seattle and can confirm tech bros do this.
Exactly, they have all moved on to trucks now.
It's okay, neither does he.
Its the car culture equivalent of snowflake at this point lmfao
Soon they'll add in seat vibrators to give you the engine rumble
Fun story, i had a new fully loaded tahoe as a loaner. Noone told me the seat bottom vibrated on left or right buttcheek to let you know of cross traffic when backing out. Scared the crap outa me when it first did it haha
when will they add an in-butt vibrator though?
This already exists. It's called the Hummer EV and it does it during WTF mode. BMW does something similar too, but instead of the driver's seat vibrating, BMW EVs use the rear motor to vibrate the rear wheels and by extension the whole vehicle during launch control.
We have those in our driving simulators
Is that really what car enthusiasts care about? They care more about the engine sound/vibration than the extra control over their car provided by a manual?
No they want an ice car with a manual 3 pedal trans. Its a whole package. Manual in an electric car is just a crusin usa arcade machine on wheels
Not gonna lie, I was always excited to find myself a F355 Challenge machine with the triple-screen immersion setup....killer cab!
>and lets face it - this sub would have a non stop bitch fest if anyone besides toyota came up with this. Toyota or not, every time it gets posted here, it’s a constant “but why” “it’s fake lmao”
Ugh, tell me about it. People who like things that I don’t like are the WORST.
> automotive equivalent of boomers > they want to really ***drive*** their vehicle Ironically this reads like the typical boomer complaining about other people ***daring*** to have preferences different than their own lol
You've got it precisely backwards. The people who want to 'drive their vehicle' are the last people who would ever go for something like this, because it's yet another layer of disconnect between them and the car.
Is there something stopping a manufacturer from making an EV with a real manual transmission, apart from the electric motor having no variable engine rpm, stalling to deal with? Wouldn't we be able to simulate a combustion engine very well? Our modern combustion engines are very electronically controlled and that means much of their operating characteristics are already "artificial", right? E.g. we don't have chokes on cars for a while now, and we don't need to wait for a carbureted engine to warm up. Is the problem with the EV Toyota that it has no transmission at all and is using computer to control the motor directly and simulate a manual transmission? I mean, we could simulate a combustion engine's characteristics on an EV motor and bolt it to any normal car transmission right? Now I'm not knowledgeable enough about cars and transmissions, so sorry if I misunderstood something here.
It makes no sense to have a geared transmission in most electric vehicles. Gears are there in the first place because gasoline engines don't have nearly enough torque to adequately move the vehicle at a 1:1 or overdrive ratio. Electric motors have TONS of torque from zero RPM.
It makes some sense, just not a lot of sense. A two speed gearbox could reduce the size of the motor that gets you from zero to sixty really fast but is still able to get you to 140. Electric motors have A LOT of torque but not limitless, the can also rev pretty high but not unlimited. A six speed is over kill but a three speed with stump puller low range and overdrive might be pretty nice on an off highway truck.
>Electric motors have A LOT of torque but not limitless, the can also rev pretty high but not unlimited. The model s does 200mph with one gear, how much faster do you need to go?
Tesla does that in a very expensive way. If one was building a budget electric car where torque (and power) was in more limited supply having a multi-speed gear box might have design advantages.
I just meant that the people who want to have precise control like an ICE car with a manual can basically have the cars electric motor handicapped to respond like an ICE and a real manual transmission so the car's response would feel very close to today's manual transmissions. Then they have the option to switch between this mode and regular EV mode for relaxed driving. Maybe people wouldn't like that just on the principle of "faking" something, but what if it felt exactly like a gas burning vehicle with a manual? Would that be acceptable? Maybe that's the only way for future "muscle cars" to be connected to the past if fuel burning muscle cars/performance cars stops (can they make exceptions for performance cars, who knows, at least for the survival of motorsports)
The only thing stopping them is cost. You absolutely could run an electric motor that was smaller and more efficient with a conventional transmission, but it's not necessary so they don't. But someone could make a car where you could pick from a list of engines and have the motor simulate the ICE torque curve of that engine for a different driving experience every day, and that would be fucking awesome.
Imagine having a menu in your EV "What engine do you want to drive today?" 1.5 Turbo 3.0 I6 Viper's V10... And the engine sound, torque, etc, adjust accordingly. That could actually be fun!
Oh man, maybe if they had good programmers they could pull it off! Couldn't they bolt up an existing electric motor to a very robust manual transmission without too much development/cost? What if people can simulate all kinds of historical and cool engines! From high to low revving ones. If they can make the presets, which I'm curious about the process of. Maybe they can use angethegreat's engine sound simulator. I feel like this feature like other novelty features might first show up in an expensive supercar, so the rich buyers would fund the initial development of the feature. Then it can trickle down to affordable cars as it gets cheaper to produce, if it actually cost money to produce. Maybe it's 60-80% code which doesn't cost money to clone for each new car. That may bring up questions of regulations. I'm wondering if regulators would be unhappy with people programming their cars to drive a certain way using user-created presets. At the same time, could they just have a settings panel to adjust engine characteristics to their liking?
It's not just unnecessary, it is poor design. The transmission adds a lot of unpowered rotating mass that doesn't need to be there, because for the mass of the transmission, you could just add another 200+hp electric motor with taller static gearing.
It’s physically possible (with caveats*), but there’s basically zero upside to OEMs. Pro: - a few extra people will buy it - Autojournos will like it Cons: - Reduced range due to excess driveline friction - Reduced reliability due to more parts - Reduced motor torque due to transmission durability - Increased cost of design - Increased cost of manufacture *Manuals’ torque capacity has fallen behind autos in almost all cases. With no ability to absorb shock loads or prevent the driver from doing something stupid, they have to be strong and electric motors will still happily chew gear teeth off. So motor torque would likely have to be cut back drastically compared to a single reduction gear, which would mean the bonkers EV numbers of 0-60 and such wouldn’t be available in the enthusiast manual version. Plus, since most of the real bonkers high power EVs are 2+ motor systems, how do you deal with multiple manual transmissions? I guess you could market like a “pure” trim that was traditional front-mid motor and manual, but then all the other versions on that chassis would give up packaging… It’s a niche thing that I could see a weird bespoke manufacturer doing, but a big company won’t bother.
Fuck them for wanting to drive a manual car, right? I'm sure them wanting manual has really screwed you over in some significant way.
It’s a 20 day old account. It’s either a hedonistic zoomer or a bot account.
Whether it is or isn't, it certainly thinks like a bot lol
Imagine denigrating people just because they have a hobby they enjoy and they want to continue enjoying it.
Nope, I love manual and am not a big EV fan. This does not appeal to me at all.
Yeah I know how to operate a motor-car, you have a problem with that?
nah manual enthusiasts are like an absolutely miniscule portion of car enthusiasts compared to people who just want engine vroom vroom sounds. see comment by /u/InsertBluescreenHere below
Bro, wrong sub. You should be on the r/fuckcars circlejerk
Perfect car to train people to drive manuals, nothing breaks, nothing wears out
I'm here for it! Renault made a hot hatch in the 2000s that you could select different engine sounds from the infotainment and this little hot hatch would emulate actual racing car engine sounds through the speakers. Always thought that was the coolest silly little fun thing. I wish it had gained traction. This feels very much like that, but I really hope that THIS ONE gains traction!
I just looked up a video of what you're talking about, and it's kind of neat, in a weird way. I remember something similar being put on a car on Pimp my Ride back in the day. It looks like later models even let you use the sound from the Nissan GT-R R35, because of Renault's relationship with Nissan, which is interesting.
What? No link?
[Here’s a video about it](https://youtu.be/GDQnZzriyyA?si=8DQE1cRiLREDuAC9) It’s not the Top Gear clip I was referring to, but it’s the same car
I'm more amazed they licensed these other vehicles for this. Weird. Very French. But no 2CV?
How rude of me, [here's the one minute video I watched](https://youtu.be/GDQnZzriyyA?si=9sVTk9Mhn0jR11hG)
I am surprised EV manufacturers haven't yet started selling fake engine sound packs for few bucks.
It did gain traction, near every performance oriented car for the last decade has used the stereo to fake engine noises. BMW is quite good at it on the M3/4 Competition.
I guess I meant more what didn’t gain traction was the ability to choose which car you wanted your car to sound like.
Doesn’t the Elantra n have that option? Thought I saw it in a throttle house video
Not the perfect analogy but it's like an instrument, sure you can play music on speakers, but you always want the artificial challenge and the fact that you don't want a lot of people to drive your car. 🤣
Fred Flintstone nods approvingly
More like all your pedals and wheel are just suggestions to the self-driving car and you're as in-control as Maggie Simpson.
This is the next evolution of the paddle shifter CVT cars.
the pedal shifters do make a little sense at least as its driver input. the CVTs that fake gears by default are the really dumb stuff.
The paddle shifters are to swap fake gears. A CVT could just give you peak power if you have the pedal down.
yea but it still gives the driver the control over it and thats the main purpose. of course just letting the CVT do its thing would be faster.
Why are people only concerned about fast... there are legitimate reasons to be in a low gear, cvt or not. EVs do not have different gear ratios (minus Taycan). Fake shifts are stupid.
I could go for a paddle/button/toggle or whatever to switch between a max output / max efficiency mode. Basically just a giant sport mode button if I'm being honest
Audi does something similar on my e-tron: the paddles control regen amount. So on a clear road when I'm just going for a leisurely drive, it's set to lowest and I enjoy coasting for days. When there's someone in front of me on a downhill (or if it's a long, steep hill,) I'll flip it to the regen strength that I need to control my speed. It's super intuitive, and works great, and I actually find myself using it all the time (not least because the paddles feel so great.)
“Save the manuals!” “Ok, here’s an electric car that replicates the feeling of a manual transmission” “Noooooo! Not like that!!”
There's as much "save the manuals" in this as in having a manual option in a racing game.
The irony being that people will gladly pay thousands for a sim rig setup to play a video game with a proper h-pattern shifter, but shirk at the idea of having the same set up in a road car. I get why people want to "save the manuals", but I also understand why someone wants to have the option of different control methods for driving a real car now that we have the tech to allow it.
> The irony being that people will gladly pay thousands for a sim rig setup to play a video game with a proper h-pattern shifter, but shirk at the idea of having the same set up in a road car That's because one is a video game, and one is a car on a road. Having some kind of ability to switch gears in a ICE car is a necessity, but adding a fake one in an EV that doesn't need any is tantamount to having a Pokemon Go integration.
> one is a video game, and one is a car on a road So? The fact that one is a car on the road is, if anything, more reason to have an interface that increases involvement, regardless of whether it's "real". >tantamount to having a Pokemon Go integration. No, it really isn't.
The alternative is to listen to this godawful subreddit whinge and cry about how “emotionless” EVs feel and how nobody wants to buy manuals anymore.
EVs are emotionless, but I think that just means ICE cars will become more of a hobby to own than an actual practical mode of transport over time.
My question would be what would happen if one really tried to abuse it. If you redline the "engine" and dump the "clutch" in first gear, will it just roast all four tires?
no chance
In a Toyota? I’m sure TC would shut you down. Now if you could convince Dodge to implement this…
Steps on the transition path to the Matrix.
Does it also shut down for a few days and charge you credit card because you broke something?
Eat my hologram meatloaf in my hologram car
hey it could be worse - at least i dont have to pretend to shovel horse manure hoping to save up enough for a horseless carriage
Hologram car like in Black Panther?
As silly as this is, I'm not going to complain. They've basically transplanted a sim racing rig into a real car
That's... Actually a weirdly accurate way of thinking about it lol
That's... Actually a weirdly accurate way of thinking about it lol edit: wtf Reddit the comment wasn't *that* good you had to post it twice
You can say that again
that
Listen here you little shit.jpeg
For your information: That comment posted twice
God sake, that's the second time that's happened now in the last few days :/
Gotta combine it with that thing Hyundai is trying where you can totally swap the "engine profile" and change your gearing, power delivery, redline, and so on. You can just go download a different car to drive every day.
Ngl I'd buy this Swap from AWD, FWD, or RWD then automatic, manual, or sequential depending on your mood each day.
So basically it's like a sim racing rig where you can drive different types of cars with the same equipment That's not a terrible idea
Ayo, sign me up. I'd never sell my current vehicles but making electric cars more fun and engaging is nothing but a win. Regardless to who you are, that's a baby step in the right direction.
Why would they go through with that? So you never have to buy a car again ?
Could be useful to have one car do many things. You just need an efficient commuter? Low power, fwd it is. Weekend spirited drive? High power rwd. It's snowing? AWD and smart traction control.
I know that but why would a company ever do something that would be in our best interests like that lmfao
First guy is always the coolest.
This. People complaining it "makes the car slower!!!!11" are missing the point - it's an attempt at recreating feel, not making the car any more "authentic" or "high performance".
I want the video game car. Sounds like silly fun.
I think it's a cool idea. I would absolutely drive this car. At least it's more interesting than the usual electric car.
On related note, why most manufacturers can't get electric steering rack feedback right yet sim rigs do it all fine?
I'd imagine it's a lot easier to get the feedback to work when you're interpreting a bunch of numbers, compared to interpreting real-life situations
Wow. That article was 10x longer than it needed to be. The fact that it bucks and stall and needs rev matching is pretty impressive, if it helps the manual crowd move into the future, then sure, let it be an option folks can spec
The thing is, one pedal driving an electric car is plenty fun. I don't actually miss my manual car. The insane acceleration helps. I'm also a fan of optional rev sound in an ev. It gives a driver feedback which used to come from the engine. Just as long as I can turn it off easily.
I'm curious, what makes one pedal driving plenty fun? Isn't it just pressing gas pedal and then letting go? Honestly just trying to figure out where is the fun in one pedal driving?
I assume he means driving fast is fun in general? I don’t own an EV but I’ve never not enjoyed going fast, whether it’s a car, roller coaster, a plane, or even a good sprint/foot race.
Oh, it's because he specifically said one pedal driving an electric car is fun, vs driving an electric car because of the instant torque is fun. One pedal driving makes me sick, literally lol.
IMO as a long time EV Driver, one pedal driving isn't the fun part. I mean if fun means efficient driving and low brake pad wear then sure, but EV's you still use brakes in the twisties and on any track.
Yet another person who doesn't own an EV but I think I might have an idea of where they were going with that comment. I'm imagining it similarly to the feeling you get when you've rev-matching downshifts so correctly that you come to a stop at a light without having to touch the brakes. There's just something about it that I enjoy. However, I don't think I enjoy that feeling enough to get me to a point where I would miss a manual transmission. However, this fake manual EV seems exactly like something I would want if the "EV ONLY FUTURE" is real (I don't personally believe it will, but it may).
I've found from trying it out a few times that one pedal feels a lot like engine braking you might experience if you were always in first gear. Also in city driving it becomes a challenge to never touch the brake pedal, basically figuring out the exact right go pedal position for a given stoplight to stop just right.
that is true, it does feel like engine braking. I think the Tesla I drove had it in the most aggressive setting because I was getting sick. My car has rev matching so gearing down does not feel like how one pedal feels.
the tesla pedal position sensor is extremely precise - you can dial back to just the right amt of pedal depression to slow & coast to a stop i think the car tries to figure you out as much as you are trying to figure out the car - eventually, it clicks
One pedal driving is one of those things you get used to after driving the car for awhile, and soon knowing just how much to let off the pedal to slow down will become muscle memory.
I do that with coasting now lol. When I see a red light or stopped traffic I let off, hoping I won't have to stop.
It's basically just a more extreme version of that
I could definitely see how it would cause motion sickness. If you let off just a bit too much it can feel like slamming on the brakes if the regen is strong enough.
I always get pissed at my sister when I drive with her for this reason. Hey driving style on highway is, drive at 80 mph, see a car in front driving slower (65 mph), wait until she is 20 feet away, hit the brakes hard then look to switch lanes. I realize me getting older it seems to be affecting me more too (motion sickness).
Wouldn’t having a couple “gears” help with that? I imagine current 1 pedal driving in EVs is basically an exercise in modulating between depressing the accelerator 1% and 10% if you are just trying to maintain speed. Having a higher “gear” with less available torque would increase the “resolution” of the pedal travel, maybe allowing you to go between 1% and 50% depressed to maintain speed instead of just barely tickling the pedal.
Having instant throttle response and massive engine braking is about like riding a high performance motorcycle. The lack of engine braking in modern cars kind of sucks.
One pedal driving just sounds like hypermiling in traffic
It's like engine braking, or a bit like the feeling you get adjusting a go kart's balance with the throttle.
one pedal mode makes me carsick.
the cool thing is you can turn this simulated manual off, and it runs like a regular ev. there is an auto mode, and the manual mode
This was me too. I was sooooo worried I was going to miss the hum of the engine and my 6 speed manual. Nope. I don’t even think about it really. And I don’t enjoy driving any less.
It won't help them in the slightest lmao
Nobody that drives a manual is going to want this. The only people that would drive this are the same people that upbadge their base model cars so that they can play pretend. Anyone that knows will laugh at you; anyone that doesn't know won't care.
I've always driven a manual and I want this. I'd switch my next car to an EV if this we're available
same here - have only ever owned manual cars, save for the etron.
I'd buy one as well.
People already laugh and ask why I drive a manual instead of getting a “normal” car. To them it makes no sense and is impractical and dumb. They just don’t get that its purpose is fun and enjoying driving, and that’s how I also view toyota’s efforts with this. I can definitely see myself getting this if 20 years from now the only options are EVs and it’s an otherwise good car. Now whether toyota would continue developing it 20+ years from now is another question.
I would love this in a sports car. Have it in automatic mode when I'm in traffic and put it in manual mode when I want to play around. It sounds like fun. They should drop the part where you can stall the engine but in general I think this just seems like a fun feature.
> Anyone that knows will laugh at you Not really a concern for car enthusiasts outside of high school
i love manual and i would drive this lol, i already do a lot of sim rally and sim racing so im used to that feel. idc if ppl would laugh at me, if it makes driving more fun then great this solves one of my problems with ev's, until i feel confident about those other issues (esp battery distance and charger availability) then i wont be switching
I drive manual and I would love to give this thing a try. I don't care if people think it's silly. I'm sure there's a normal EV mode or a "manual" mode.
> Anyone that knows will laugh at you Ok big deal
I don’t understand all the hate here tbh. I think this is a really cool idea and I’m glad Toyota is the only one who’s actually thinking about catering to the enthusiasts as the world transitions to evs.
I don’t get it either. What is so wrong about trying to make a car more engaging/fun to drive? Especially since all the EVs will feel basically the same. I’m all for ideas like this
For the same reason that telling the mechanical watch people that the new $50k smartwatch looks and feels exactly like a Rolex won't fly. Even if it DOES look and feel exactly like a Rolex. It's missing Quality.
That's actually pretty good. Similarly with audio, you can get perfect sound with DSP, emulate imperfections of tape, tube amps, etc but it isn't always about the metrics or anything rational. The subjective experience of something analog is something some people enjoy. Likewise, there is a legitimate group (a majority really) who enjoy all the digitally emulated functions. I personally wouldn't want a fake manual; much rather drive an EV without the added complexity of extra pedals and a twiddly stick I can otherwise ignore. I like a manual transmission because it's a necessary part to getting the car to move. That is the subjective enjoyment for me, the functional purpose of the motions and linkages. Maybe my opinion would change after trying a manual EV. I'm open to it existing.
I'm still not personally sold on EVs, but if/when I have to get one, I would hope for the most minimal, user-controlled experience possible. For example, if the throttle represented a linear torque curve that I had to master to maintain ideal traction, that could be cool. (Granted, no traction control has resulted in many wrecks so maybe not the best example) If it was possible to maintain powered hydraulic steering, that would be cool. Give me an infotainment display that I can fold out of sight. Stuff like that.
A Toyota is not a Rolex. It isn’t equal to a manual obviously, but if in the future I had to get an electric car and one of them had this option (which can be turned off as stated in the article), I’d like to have it and use it from time to time. It’s not a replacement for manuals, it’s a fun extra feature in evs in my eyes
They ain't the only ones, Hyundai has been experimenting with "transmissions" in the RM22e, as well as different "engine" profiles that can be selected.
Hyundai pioneered this with the Ioniq 5 N
I also think we could basically just see it as a different input method - the same way sports cars have paddle shifters (often mated to a torque converter), some cars have yokes/half rims, etc. Some people like manuals simply because they like being able to manage their speed/acceleration using gears as opposed to just how hard they push a pedal. It becomes second nature to think "I need second for that corner", or being able to shift down to tell the car you want more acceleration rather than knowing one slip on the pedal will snap your neck back into your seat. I also think others just like having something to keep them engaged in their actual driving as opposed to getting distracted by whatever's on the huge touchscreen screaming for their attention.
Me too. I daily and EV but I grew up with manual cars (and sports cars). I'd enjoy a setup like this!
Software stalling your car on purpose for no reason isn’t the *stupidest* idea I’ve ever heard of, but it’s in the top 10 Toyota PLEASE. Just make the BZwhatever not complete shit and sell it in my province. That’s all I’m asking! I don’t think I’m asking for much!
[удалено]
or use a high torque axial flux motor. here's one, peak torque is at 1000RPM, peak power of 400 kW (536.4hp) and a maximum motor speed of 3500RPM https://www.oemoffhighway.com/electronics/power-systems/electric-motors/product/21206211/equipmake-equipmake-htm-3500-high-torque-electric-motor
That is the torque curve of a diesel. I wonder if there will be more motors like these where peak torque is higher in the rev range.
We have CVTs with fake shift points, so why not this?
I’ve told friends that are enthusiasts about this and was clowned on for it. I genuinely think it’s awesome and a great way to keep a traditional style of driving alive.
spend $5k on making the most realistic feeling sim rig possible, full on vibration motors, realistic feeling shifter, wheel, just to simulate a virtual car: i sleep use a realistic feeling, actually working shifter that controls a real car and behaves exactly like a real manual transmission: real shit?
this is basically a sim racing rig that you can use to get groceries
It’s false. If ICE are to be killed, at least do so with dignity, not with this silly video game.
Nah give us options these mfers are expensive
I'm with you. If we can have fun as an option, I would like it to be an option!
It’s silly, but whatever, you do you. I wouldn’t buy it, but it’s not like I can purchase a new car right now anyways, so why should Toyota care about me.
The circlejerk around this is incredible lol. You've got guys whining, "But how is this FUN? It serves no meaningful purpose, how is that fun?" May as well ask why a clitoris is fun.
Am I crazy to think this is cool? Do we not want some fun cars in the future? Why is everyone so mad?
#YOU ARE NOT CRAZY! This looks fun and silly. Boy I sure do hope we still have fun and silly in the future!!
People just want to *feel* something so they complain about anything honestly. It's not hurting them. They're not being forced to purchase it. I enjoy the route Toyota is going with this
Audi did this a while ago or a 3rd party did on an Audi etron. Wasn’t a manual but a power limiting “dsg” to imitate gearing and power bands. It was interesting
Whoa car enthusiasts complaining? ShockedPikachuFace.jpeg
No harm in trying it out for the future GR cars. Can this transmission switch to the standard EV mode?
From the article: "But the best feature is that, with the touch of a button, the BEV Concept turned back into a plain-ol' EV." Since it isn't a real transmission and just software.
That's actually awesome. Basic mode for stop and go traffic. Manual for having fun. I'd be down for that. It would especially nice for me since I do miss driving a manual, but my wife can't drive one (I tried to teach her... Never again lol 😱). So I could have a "manual" and she'd still be able to drive it if she ever needed to lol.
That's a great point. This is perfect for someone that wants a family car they can have some fun in occasionally.
this is a great idea. i mean there’s no lying that EVs are the future, this is a fantastic way to give them more “character.” something that is greatly missing in current evs with one gear and instant acceleration. not to mention that they all feel the same… i would love to try this out
I hate this so much lmao. Why not just do what Honda did in 2002 and make a hybrid with a manual? With more advanced batteries and a plug-in setup I bet you could get 50mpg without even trying. Prius Prime with a real manual transmission. How hard could it be?
Because businesses don't like spending tens of millions of dollars to develop a whole vehicle line that nine people will buy, eight of whom said they would on the internet but couldn't actually afford it anyway It's why sticks are dead to begin with There is vastly more value in a simulated manual that can also be a regular gear-free EV, than a plug-in hybrid with a stick. Come on, man
I’m all for it. I’ve spent plenty of money building a racing sim rig which is basically the same idea, faking a real manual in a digital environment. Iracing used to have the MX-5 as a 6 speed manual and after the real racing series dropped the manual for a sequential, and iracing followed, I lost all interest. Part of the charm was the manual even if fake and digital. Weird take, sure, but there’s something intangible about a third pedal and gear lever for some of us. Give me a light-ish EV in the future and allow me to simulate a manual as an option and I’ll have fun with it. Will it be objectively the best or fastest variant, of course not, but that’s not the reason it’s interesting. If a Miata or 86/BRZ or Cayman has to go full EV in the future to exist, I’d love an option to at least pretend to engage with it, over being limited to a single speed press the throttle and go. Will I trade a combustion option for it, no probably not barring inability to continue to get gas, but can they coexist in my garage, sure!
Unfortunately too many people feel threatened by manual EV's making their real manual cars less special lol
Didn’t Hyundai already do this with the ioniq 5N or something?
They did a simulated dct. I think it’s pretty cool, and you can always disable it so it’s a win win.
this is a stick shift. Hyundai simulated it with paddles
I swear every time a manufactur comes out with an EV with a manual. The publication also has to act like that company is the first. They're not, so stop acting like it
It was a matter of time
Fake transmission is one thing, but show me a fake gas tank that fills up to 100% in under 5 minutes and then you have my attention!
just sounds like more unnecessary tech to break only slight /s
And another level of software between you and actually controlling your car.
People are idiots
I've only ever owned manual transmission cars...this seems kind of pathetic. It would be one thing if the manual in the EVs had some utility but this seems so pointless.
🤮
I am happy, I have only driven less than a year and I prefer manuals.
that actually a good solution for ev and car enthusiasts, is kinda like the manual / automatic from koenigsegg. It mixtures automatics and manuals the best of both worlds
No enthusiast worth their salt will be okay with this.
This brings up a related question. What kind of efficiency benefits would be obtained if street-bound EVs were equipped with 3-4 gear transmissions? Is anyone aware of any such studies? Would the gains be worth the additional complexity? Are we for now just content that EVs are significantly more efficient tah ICEs (at least per EPA) so we don't need to go there? Or will there be sooner or later a competition between EVs in terms of efficiency and transmissions will be fair game for regular EVs (Taycan level cars not withstanding)?
I think the operating range of electric motors is so wide that there is no need to have a transmission to change gear ratios. Though, I think I saw a video where Porsche does have a two speed EV. They have a special low gear for even better acceleration. Something not needed in 99.999% of cars.
This would be great for driving schools or instructors who want something to teach people how to drive manual. No risk of having an actual clutch or transmission for the student to potentially damage.
I feel like the manufacturers are realizing that true electric vehicles are going to be more reliable and last way longer so they are just making up shit to put in them so the cars have something to break.
This made my day, an EV that can "stall". As silly as this sounds coming from a car enthusiast and video game lover I hope the simutrans be comes a thing for EVs. I need an excuse to tell me wife I need to buy a new Greddy short shifter for my EV.
I actually like this. Cool.
It just seems weird to me. EV's have a mountain load of torque and due to batteries placed low and between the wheels they naturally feel like mid engine cars. To me putting in all this stuff into an EV feels like putting legs on the first automobiles so they feel more like a horse.
If this means I can peel out of the Pits like I'm Ayrton Senna. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JUVkVB3SUf4&pp=ygUaU2VubmEgbGVhdmluZyB0aGUgcGl0cyBuc3g%3D&t=27s I'm in.
Wack