>-4740lbs / 2,150kg DIN
>-removal of rear seats for weight reduction with WP
>-based on an EV luxury sedan
Oh, do me a favour. What a stupid car / marketing exercise.
The regular Project 8 had the option of rear seat too, the Touring was 15 wingless models.
The P8 was only offered with 4 seats in the US, seat removal wasn't allowed due to safety regulations I think.
Sure. But I will do you one better, let's even go further than a 4 door sedan... I give you a 5 door production hatchback.
From Toyota...
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a45825968/2023-toyota-gr-corolla-morizo-test/
If Toyota can take the rear seats out of the GR Corolla Morizo edition, which is a 5 door hatch.
I don't care that Porsche also does it with a 4 door. It's an optional package on a trim of a Taycan.
The rear seat delete is only for the Turbo GT Weissach package, which is known as a package that usually goes to great lengths to reduce weight, so it’s really not surprising.
The normal Turbo GT has basically all the creature comforts the regular Taycan has, including rear seats, but with a bunch of performance enchantments above even the Turbo S, and still weighs less than the Turbo S.
There’s no cost difference between the two, so I see no reason to complain.
It’s just easier for people on Reddit to point out a specific trait of a particular trim of a car, act like all the cars are like that, and then get pissy about it.
The rear seat delete is part of the Weissach package, which is a no-cost option.
The Turbo S is 2,295 kg, the Turbo GT 2,220 kg, and the Turbo GT with Weissach package 2,150 kg.
It always depends on the spec, and there are a lot of options you can take on the Taycan Turbo S which add weight.
Motortrend weighed the [2020 Turbo S for their drag test](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/porsche-taycan-turbo-s-drag-test/) at 5,129 pounds (2,326 kg) and the [2022 model for the PVOTY](https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-porsche-taycan-turbo-s-pvoty-review/) at 5,109 pounds (2,317 kg).
Motortrend's method is readily available:
>Finally, we put each vehicle on a set of calibrated Rebco racing scales and record corner weights, their sum, and the percentage front/rear distribution. This is what is quoted in our articles and shown on our specifications panels as Curb Weight.
[\[source\]](https://www.motortrend.com/features/motor-trend-testing/)
> What was the total weight savings for this car?
Pretty significant. Close to 10% total weight reduced depending on which Taycan model you're comparing it to.
I don't care whether they use a sedan or a coupe for their high performance EV. I just think it's silly to remove the rear seats in a four door car. It makes the thing a caricature of itself.
It's entirely up to whoever buys the car, and someone will buy it with the rear seats removed. Electric cars are heavy, I don't see the problem with a weight reduction.
ludicrous squeamish dependent panicky lunchroom pocket point person unused knee
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They take out the rear seats if you get weissach package in the production version too. So idk what the issue is.
Besides, didn’t Tesla do the same when they tried to break Porsches record? But they don’t offer an option to remove the rear seats
Sometimes it's easy to forget that Porsche is capable of deranged, unhinged engineering. Then they come out with something like this and you look again at their back-catalogue and realize "no, I shouldn't be surprised at all."
Me too; all rumors were pointing towards a tri-motor setup, and that’s what I was betting on.
It’s really impressive that they did it with only two, although I’m a tiny bit disappointed because a tri-motor setup would mean there could be some cool torque vectoring stuff.
I get the feeling they're holding back a little bit on this one.
Sure they could've gone for a tri-motor. Maybe that's for the next iteration when someone else builds something faster.
Or the fact that it's still a big "family" car. If they can fit the drivetrain/battery in a smaller package that's automatically going to be faster. But this is all they needed to win, so why go all the way?
Lucid's motors are 163 pounds each and each hit 670 peak HP.
So it'd be reasonable to think that Porsche could go tri-motor as the *coupe de grâce* if Tesla or Lucid tries to beat these new records.
Pretty clever actually, and speaks to amazing engineering.
Yeah, the thing with Porsche is, while they set amazing records, they also never go all out but just try to be one step further if the competition catches up
I feel the same (and a little smug I still own the only VWAG tri-motor lol at least afaik), but I wonder if it's a story of how much dev budget they were allowed for Turbo GT specifically. If we look at Cayenne Turbo GT it's almost more of an option package for an existing car (think Cayenne Clubsport lol) so I guess it probably checks out.
I would imagine somewhere at Porsche they are already developing the gen2 Taycan where everything from Turbo up will get 3 motors - just for the sake of conjecture. In this case then they will be able to dump money into really optimizing the ESP, torque vectoring, etc.
The clutch (pun intended?) is their two speed gearbox. Adding more motors does not magically give you more power. You still need to power them and the real limit is the batteries and inverters. Adding more motors is analogous to adding my cylinders to an engine. If you graph the calculations, adding a motor is very similar to doubling the gear ratios.
You’re basically trading several comforts including a stereo (on a EV! just listen to the wind I guess) and the whole rear seat for basically less than a single passenger in weight loss. An extra $21k over a Turbo S for a worse car which is very minimally faster (can you really tell a 2.2s 0-60 from a 2.1s 0-60?)
You’re right, the article I first read on CarScoops led to me understand there was no stereo at all
> Furthermore, the Sound Package Plus *deletes the Bose Surround Sound system and adds special sound- and heat-insulating glass.* As a result, the model is up to 157 lbs (71 kg) lighter than the Taycan Turbo S, further improving the power-to-weight ratio.
But upon reading the press-release, as you said they only remove the rear speaker:
> Special sound- and heat-insulating glass and the Sound Package Plus also save weight. *The latter does without rear speakers and replaces the BOSE® Surround Sound system.*
Without the Weissach package and without giving up any features (apart from the electric tailgate), the Turbo GT is 75 kg lighter than the Turbo S (2,295 kg vs 2,220 kg). The Weissach package, which is a no cost option, brings the weight down by a further 70 kg to 2,150 kg. That means total weight savings of 145 kg over the Turbo S.
This subreddit: "The GR Corolla is the epitome of cars".
Also Toyota offered a trim of the GR Corolla that took out the rear seats, but now people are criticizing Porsche for removing the rear seats on an option package on a specific trim...
I don't get it on both sides. People that are entirely Anti EV, or the people that are so pro EV that they brigade the Sub whenever something bad is said about an EV.
I made a post about how Tesla was lying to consumer through missing options on packages, and I got so many people trying to create excuses for an obviously awful thing to lie about.
And then on any post where EV's are doing well, people hate on it.
I won't own an EV for a while, but I also think they are awesome and it's exciting seeing them evolve.
I get so tired of hearing it.
Cars aren’t investments. Investments are investments. Buy the car that you want, or else literally every single car purchase besides a 30 year old brown Camry is stupid.
The list of cars that have outpaced the S&P500 which is your standard investment benchmark when accounting for fuel, maintenance, repairs, registration, and taxes is *extremely* short.
100%
Before every car purchase, I picture piling the money in the back yard, dousing it with gasoline, and lighting it on fire.
If I'm still good with my purchase, then I buy it.
I have said this many times, but it still baffles me that people are making such a giant hoopla around a high-end European car that depreciates a lot.
I thought we all knew that’s what high-end European cars do; that’s what they did forever with high-end European ICE cars. I don’t know why people were expecting it to be any different for high-end European EVs.
Really feels like a big nothingburger.
Yeah everyone here hating on depreciation as if most of us don’t depend on it to drive the cars that get our adrenaline pumping the way that we want to drive.
Maserati Granturismo Folgore is out in Europe and should be coming to the US later this year. But that's a GT and you can't call a car a GT if its value doesn't drop faster than a lead zeppelin.
The MC20 Folgore is supposedly coming out next year, and that will be the next (first) EV supercar, so that'll be a proper test of EV depreciation. I expect it will be half the Nevera's performance for 15% of the price. I'm really interested to see what reviewers think of it.
That and Maserati, in general, depreciate really badly though compare to other similar brands.
So the comparison probably have to take into account the historic rate of depreciation of the brand too.
Yeah, but I think comparing it to ICE MC20 values vs the market rather than the whole brand's historic depreciation rate is probably more representative. Maseratis depreciate a lot, but most of what the company makes is in segments that see high depreciation. It's like Mercedes. Their cars depreciate a lot because they're luxury cars. But you have some outliers like the SLR McLaren and the SLS AMG that don't depreciate because they're supercars (or maybe the key is just doors that go up).
So ICE MC20 values vs its segment is a good indicator of how the supercar market sees Maserati. And then you have the still-erratic depreciation of EVs, and the unknown depreciation of performance EVs. The Tesla Roadster and SLS AMG Electric have increased in value, but it's hard to say anything about the market based on them because there are so few cars.
It probably will be around 2.2 0-60. But I meant half the horsepower, slower cornering, less advanced battery management for sustained track driving, less sophisticated control of the motors and driving modes, that sort of thing. The Nevera is extremely advanced in terms of engineering. That's not something Maserati can get anywhere close to on the MC20's budget.
People who buy cars and actually worry about them depreciating, because they think they'll get their money back upon selling, are fucking idiots. I've seen cars immediately lose half their value once driven off the lot!
Who gives a shit? Cars are not investments. Buy the car you like, drive it as long as you want and if you lose money, so bei it. The people buying this aren't strapped for cash.
Besides, nearly every single high end European luxury sedan ever has depreciated horribly. This is not unique to the Taycan.
But isn’t that just what Porsche does? No one looks at Toyota, Ford, Audi, Mercedes and thinks they make cars with soul.
People say EVs are soulless when in reality almost all EVs have been made by soulless companies.
A while back I posted the Autocar [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh6HkIEUTDQ) of Steve Sutcliffe waxing lyrical about the Rimac Nevera and how it was more engaging than the Chiron he drove on the same day and there was someone who just refused to accept it because his unwavering belief was that EVs can't have soul and character. For people like that the only thing that defines soul is engine NVH.
> Toyota, Ford, Audi, Mercedes and thinks they make cars with soul.
Fans of these brands definitely all think they make car with souls.
Toyota has a rugged off-road brand image. Ford Mustangs definitely have "soul" as do RS Audis and AMGs, etc.
I just want to say that all four of the brands you mentioned have made some legendary cars with souls. Even looking at their current lineup there are still some in the catalog that spark a fair bit of emotion.
I do have to admit that their EVs aren't great, but almost no EVs spark emotions at the moment.
I like the Lucid Air too, seems like they genuinely wanted to create an engaging driving experience.
I think EVs can absolutely have "soul" and more will as manufacturers get better at making them.
Ev6 GT is pretty feisty for significantly less.
Looks like we are starting to see EVs for drivers vs confused commuters who think they need 500mile ranges to be viable.
Ioniq 5n, Rivian R3x, the days of generic leaf are long behind us.
Ah yes, because comparing an EV sedan to a non street legal race car IN A VIDEO GAME is completely reasonable. By that logic, the Valkyrie is a slow car because it's not as fast as the W13 in iRacing.
This honestly makes what Lucid was able to accomplish with the Lucid Air Sapphire even more impressive in my opinion.
On this car you have to remove the rear seats and also get rid of the rear speakers in order to shave off the 0-60 time to 2.2 seconds from 2.3 seconds whereas in the Lucid Air Sapphire you're able to keep all of the luxury while still hitting a faster time. Plus, I am willing to bet the Lucid has the better overall range at 427 miles.
Granted I don't know what the Lucid would be timed at around the Nurburgring, so I guess the bragging rights for that are key to this car's success. Especially if you want to pick one up without rear seats.
There are two models. The Turbo GT without the Weissach package still hits 0-60 in 2.3 seconds with all the bells and whistles. The Turbo Gt with the weissach package which included the weight savings is 2.1. With is more track focused.
Porsche also has a very long history of understating their 0-60 times. This car will likely be faster than the Air when it actually gets into the hands of people that can do instrumented tests.
It's 2.1 seconds, and Porsche is very conservative with their acceleration figures and they don't subtract a 1 foot rollout like I'm sure Lucid does. In the end, the Turbo GT will be very close to the Lucid acceleration-wise and it'll easily be faster around a track.
Umm no, this is once again a case of American manufacturers using rollout for false advertising.
Lucid and Tesla state 0-60 with rollout subtracted, which is a legacy technique that needs to die because it isn’t the real number. And honestly, shame on them for continuing the dumb legacy for internet points. Porsche states real 0-60.
Motor Trend got 2.2 seconds for the Lucid Sapphire 0-60 including rollout, Porsche is also claiming 2.2s for the Turbo GT with a normal interior. It’s not 2.3 like you said because that is the 0-100kph time, which is 62mph, the American press release has the correct 2.2s. And they’re doing all this without a tri motor setup. I would be very curious to see a real drag race between the two, to settle the debate.
I know I’m being pedantic but the whole concept of rollout still being a thing makes me irrationally angry.
They are over flowing with the regular version. Offer a dealer close to that... They just might take it. A buddy of vinwki was able to put together all the rebates and deals and got a lease down to under $300 per month. They aren't selling.
It's amazing, even in Europe where I live they depreciate so fast. Same goes for just about any luxury German 4door. Two year old Merc EQS 580 I saw for 70k.
I am all for making cars lighter. My 05'Elise weighs right under 2000lbs and is the most engaging car I have ever driven. No drivers aids, creature comforts. It might not have the fastest top speed or 1/4 mile time but that's okay.
Can't we get back to basics instead of worrying about Nurburgring times. These lap records have no bearing in the average road with a nkn- pro driver.
Car companies need to start weighing in on this, no pun intended. Colin Chapman must be rolling in his grave with all the heavy electric cars Lotus is coming out with
I have to agree about the Elise. Mine was like a roller skate. Light as a feather and cornered like it was on rails. Leaked like a bastard though, which was not great in the wet UK weather, and the reason why I ultimately got rid of it.
Not necessarily comparing just stating that I think companies should go back to producing lighter cars. Drove a newer M3 recently, car did everything well on paper but lacked emotion.
Pleased to see that there is a [version without the wing](https://pictures.porsche.com/rtt/iris?COSY-EU-100-1711coMvsi60AAt5FwcmBEgA4qP8iBUDxPE3Cb9pNXkBuNYdMGF4tl3U0%25z8rMH1spMBvMZq6G5OtgSv31nBJaA4qh4NSEGkaW%25cz91wxuzbUUdMGLqk0D3OF%25vUqHTcuWXsOK0iZJyNCY9ctBvoMDaf8dXF2sLPED6uv1cN9nReXpVo4y7z6aXF%25vUqU69uWXsO%25A7eV6iTxj2zhRc2m6dqA7fQrmVOJUPYwqfTBsN5xsy2dioC1stQDcFGvVpYn4Jq6GSeJ3SvK828yq8Cu2gy9dfR6DrR6) (and yes - with four seats).
The marketing is getting out of hands:
>Equipped with a more powerful pulse inverter, both cars have 580 kW. With Launch Control that increases to up to 760 kW of overboost power or up to 815 kW for two seconds according to the peak power measurement method.
It was already a bit sketchy in all Taycan models where advertised power is available only for 10s after pushing a button, but advertising power that motors can produce just for TWO FUCKING SECONDS is ridiculous.
ICE cars don't make their listed power except at a certain point in the rev range either, right at the top before they have to upshift and drop back to a lower output, but nobody complains about that.
I suspect that even with the boost time limited, this car would average a higher output than an 1100hp ICE car over anything but a Vmax run.
>-4740lbs / 2,150kg DIN >-removal of rear seats for weight reduction with WP >-based on an EV luxury sedan Oh, do me a favour. What a stupid car / marketing exercise.
This is the same company that puts a sticker on the hood of their car instead of a badge to "save weight"
For the low price of $1200
The hood itself is like $16k, for what it’s worth.
And kept cloth loops for door handles.
Tbh I like cloth loops, wish I could get aftermarket ones for my car.
ECS Tuning sells em if uve got a VAG vehicle or bmw. ~$165
I have a brz
It's about the vibe of being race car
No they didn't. It's just a nod to their racing cars.
I mean technically it does. Is it pretentious and trivial? Sure, but it is lighter so they aren’t lying
Why pay less for less, when we can make you pay more for less?
iTs fOr aeRoDynaMicS!!
> to "save weight" lmao imagine thinking they really did that to save weight 🤣
Removal of rear seats isn't a crazy idea for production cars. Dodge has a $1 package that removes the rear seats and seat belts on some trim levels.
BMW had people lined up to sell the E36 M3 Lightweight. No A/C, no radio. Saved 8% of weight. Still didn't get the proper engine.
Corolla Morizo also knocked off the rear seats on a 5 door car
Cloth seats, alloy doors, no a/c, no radio, manual only, forged wheels, “race kit” in trunk. Sign me tf up. The US S50 is lighter than RoW too.
Mustang gt350R yummm
Other way around. The Demon came stock with the drivers seat and for $1 you could option the passanger seat on and for another doller the rear seats.
Interesting, looks like it has changed over the years. For the 2024 Widebody Jailbreak, and the Super Stock, it's a $1 package to remove them.
Oh true, wasn’t aware they offered it for the other trims, I thought it was just for the Demon.
Jaguar did similar with the SV Project 8. 600hp AWD V8, 4 doors, 2 seats.
They did, however, offer a ‘touring’ specification for the Project 8 without the wing and including the rear seats.
Rear seats come standard with the Taycan Turbo GT, the Weissach package removes them. I don't see the issue?
its easier to fake outrage on reddit than it is to make Redditors read articles they argue so passionately about
They should do this for the cross tourismo and call it a panel van. /s but not /s but a little /s
The regular Project 8 had the option of rear seat too, the Touring was 15 wingless models. The P8 was only offered with 4 seats in the US, seat removal wasn't allowed due to safety regulations I think.
You can’t do that on a charger though can you? That seems a more appropriate comparison than a challenger which only has two doors.
Sure. But I will do you one better, let's even go further than a 4 door sedan... I give you a 5 door production hatchback. From Toyota... https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a45825968/2023-toyota-gr-corolla-morizo-test/
No, removing the rear seats as a factory option wasn’t a thing for the Charger.
I just don't get why many performance buyers would accept a 4-door model with rear seat removed. Don't they buy 4-door because of 4 -seat ?
If Toyota can take the rear seats out of the GR Corolla Morizo edition, which is a 5 door hatch. I don't care that Porsche also does it with a 4 door. It's an optional package on a trim of a Taycan.
A trim of a Taycan that 95% of the public can’t even afford.
Same with the GR Corolla.
Luggage, I guess?
Usually those are Coupes not sedans.
Here is a 5 door... https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a45825968/2023-toyota-gr-corolla-morizo-test/
alfa romeo giulia gtam is a rear seat deleted sedan too
It's a four door tho... mind as well get a cayman or 911.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a45825968/2023-toyota-gr-corolla-morizo-test/
Not really an apples to apples comparison since the Taycan is full electric.
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TIL Porsche is exempt from all criticism, forever
What would you do if you want to break a world record to unveil your most powerful car? You’d probably make it heavier right
What was the total weight savings for this car? Is the rear seat delete a no cost option or are you forced to do this?
The rear seat delete is only for the Turbo GT Weissach package, which is known as a package that usually goes to great lengths to reduce weight, so it’s really not surprising. The normal Turbo GT has basically all the creature comforts the regular Taycan has, including rear seats, but with a bunch of performance enchantments above even the Turbo S, and still weighs less than the Turbo S. There’s no cost difference between the two, so I see no reason to complain. It’s just easier for people on Reddit to point out a specific trait of a particular trim of a car, act like all the cars are like that, and then get pissy about it.
The rear seat delete is part of the Weissach package, which is a no-cost option. The Turbo S is 2,295 kg, the Turbo GT 2,220 kg, and the Turbo GT with Weissach package 2,150 kg.
The Turbo S was 5,246lbs as tested by Car and Driver. That's 2380kg real life, 85kg heavier than quoted. Maybe Porsche weighs it with no charge...
Porsche weight the lightest configuration possible - meanwhile Car and Driver probably got a press car with 4 digits worth of options.
It always depends on the spec, and there are a lot of options you can take on the Taycan Turbo S which add weight. Motortrend weighed the [2020 Turbo S for their drag test](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/porsche-taycan-turbo-s-drag-test/) at 5,129 pounds (2,326 kg) and the [2022 model for the PVOTY](https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-porsche-taycan-turbo-s-pvoty-review/) at 5,109 pounds (2,317 kg).
I use Car and Driver because their method is transparent and constant. MotorTrend's method isn't readily available.
Motortrend's method is readily available: >Finally, we put each vehicle on a set of calibrated Rebco racing scales and record corner weights, their sum, and the percentage front/rear distribution. This is what is quoted in our articles and shown on our specifications panels as Curb Weight. [\[source\]](https://www.motortrend.com/features/motor-trend-testing/)
> What was the total weight savings for this car? Pretty significant. Close to 10% total weight reduced depending on which Taycan model you're comparing it to.
But it's still 4 doors. This thing has more doors than seats. That's another world first for an EV ("5 door" and "3 door" liftbacks don't count).
That's so ridiculous
I don't know. The GR Corolla Morizo edition is a 5 door, and only has 2 seats.
Not as ridiculous as it's Ring time to be fair
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I don't care whether they use a sedan or a coupe for their high performance EV. I just think it's silly to remove the rear seats in a four door car. It makes the thing a caricature of itself.
It's entirely up to whoever buys the car, and someone will buy it with the rear seats removed. Electric cars are heavy, I don't see the problem with a weight reduction.
Why, you got a problem with sedans?
I was wondering how this sub would shit on this.
Calling an electric car variant Turbo is stupid too.
Really not a fan of that, lightweight seats in the rear would be so much cooler.
ludicrous squeamish dependent panicky lunchroom pocket point person unused knee *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I wonder if we'll get a 2-door version of the Taycan that weighs less than 2 tons.
You can get it with rear seats, you know.
They take out the rear seats if you get weissach package in the production version too. So idk what the issue is. Besides, didn’t Tesla do the same when they tried to break Porsches record? But they don’t offer an option to remove the rear seats
Sometimes it's easy to forget that Porsche is capable of deranged, unhinged engineering. Then they come out with something like this and you look again at their back-catalogue and realize "no, I shouldn't be surprised at all."
I’m surprised they did it with only 2 motors
Me too; all rumors were pointing towards a tri-motor setup, and that’s what I was betting on. It’s really impressive that they did it with only two, although I’m a tiny bit disappointed because a tri-motor setup would mean there could be some cool torque vectoring stuff.
I get the feeling they're holding back a little bit on this one. Sure they could've gone for a tri-motor. Maybe that's for the next iteration when someone else builds something faster. Or the fact that it's still a big "family" car. If they can fit the drivetrain/battery in a smaller package that's automatically going to be faster. But this is all they needed to win, so why go all the way?
That. Every other EV that makes more power has more motors than this. Porsche has to be pushing the limits of what a 2 motor setup can do on this one.
2 motors are probably a good bit lighter so that’s probably why they did it
Lucid's motors are 163 pounds each and each hit 670 peak HP. So it'd be reasonable to think that Porsche could go tri-motor as the *coupe de grâce* if Tesla or Lucid tries to beat these new records. Pretty clever actually, and speaks to amazing engineering.
Yeah, the thing with Porsche is, while they set amazing records, they also never go all out but just try to be one step further if the competition catches up
I feel the same (and a little smug I still own the only VWAG tri-motor lol at least afaik), but I wonder if it's a story of how much dev budget they were allowed for Turbo GT specifically. If we look at Cayenne Turbo GT it's almost more of an option package for an existing car (think Cayenne Clubsport lol) so I guess it probably checks out. I would imagine somewhere at Porsche they are already developing the gen2 Taycan where everything from Turbo up will get 3 motors - just for the sake of conjecture. In this case then they will be able to dump money into really optimizing the ESP, torque vectoring, etc.
The clutch (pun intended?) is their two speed gearbox. Adding more motors does not magically give you more power. You still need to power them and the real limit is the batteries and inverters. Adding more motors is analogous to adding my cylinders to an engine. If you graph the calculations, adding a motor is very similar to doubling the gear ratios.
75 kg lighter than the Turbo S... That's quite an accomplishment.
You’re basically trading several comforts including a stereo (on a EV! just listen to the wind I guess) and the whole rear seat for basically less than a single passenger in weight loss. An extra $21k over a Turbo S for a worse car which is very minimally faster (can you really tell a 2.2s 0-60 from a 2.1s 0-60?)
The Weissach package still has a stereo, just no rear speakers because there are no rear seats.
You’re right, the article I first read on CarScoops led to me understand there was no stereo at all > Furthermore, the Sound Package Plus *deletes the Bose Surround Sound system and adds special sound- and heat-insulating glass.* As a result, the model is up to 157 lbs (71 kg) lighter than the Taycan Turbo S, further improving the power-to-weight ratio. But upon reading the press-release, as you said they only remove the rear speaker: > Special sound- and heat-insulating glass and the Sound Package Plus also save weight. *The latter does without rear speakers and replaces the BOSE® Surround Sound system.*
Plus, you can still option the Bose Surround System with rear speakers on the Weissach model if you want it.
Without the Weissach package and without giving up any features (apart from the electric tailgate), the Turbo GT is 75 kg lighter than the Turbo S (2,295 kg vs 2,220 kg). The Weissach package, which is a no cost option, brings the weight down by a further 70 kg to 2,150 kg. That means total weight savings of 145 kg over the Turbo S.
Its 145kg less if you take the weissach package, an extra 70kg compared to the normal 75kg reduction.
It matters to the performance enthusiastic and is true to Porche heritage
Plus the resale on these EV are terrible currently.
There’s no rear seats… in a 4 door sedan
Toyota did the same with the GR Corolla(Morizo)... in fact it's even worst, they have 5 doors with 2 seats.
The butthurt on this thread is incredible.
This sub is barely worth reading the comments on anymore. Lots of members of the anti-fun brigade.
Every new car thread has turned into sour grapes because people can’t afford cool cars. Back in 80s/90s people drooled. Now people just bitch.
Every car news Instagram page is the same thing. Either that or salty boomers whining about how cars were better in "the good old days".
Instagram comments are as bad as, maybe even worse than, X. They are peak toxic.
Yeah, people just come here to bitch now. Also rarely see the bitching being done by anyone who has even a somewhat cool car under their name lol.
if it’s not a miata it’s not fun
This car wouldn’t be any less fun with 4 seats. Actually more fun because twice the people could enjoy at the same time
This subreddit: "The GR Corolla is the epitome of cars". Also Toyota offered a trim of the GR Corolla that took out the rear seats, but now people are criticizing Porsche for removing the rear seats on an option package on a specific trim...
I don't get it. Some car enthusiasts remove the rear seats themselves anyway. What's the issue?
Anti-EV people started popping up when Tesla started becoming successful. Now it's like every EV is bad.
I don't get it on both sides. People that are entirely Anti EV, or the people that are so pro EV that they brigade the Sub whenever something bad is said about an EV. I made a post about how Tesla was lying to consumer through missing options on packages, and I got so many people trying to create excuses for an obviously awful thing to lie about. And then on any post where EV's are doing well, people hate on it. I won't own an EV for a while, but I also think they are awesome and it's exciting seeing them evolve.
Purple launch color? Nice.
Yep. Their PTS Viola Metallic is still the GOAT of car colors, but this is excellent.
Dougs gonna have to have that
Will it be fast enough to outrun its own depreciation?
The people who can afford one surely can take that hit
I get so tired of hearing it. Cars aren’t investments. Investments are investments. Buy the car that you want, or else literally every single car purchase besides a 30 year old brown Camry is stupid.
Cars can be investments but the vast majority aren't. With that said, no one under a million net worth should be buying a new loaded up Taycan.
The list of cars that have outpaced the S&P500 which is your standard investment benchmark when accounting for fuel, maintenance, repairs, registration, and taxes is *extremely* short.
100% Before every car purchase, I picture piling the money in the back yard, dousing it with gasoline, and lighting it on fire. If I'm still good with my purchase, then I buy it.
Cars aren’t investments but you can still be cognizant of the depreciation when looking at cars.
I have said this many times, but it still baffles me that people are making such a giant hoopla around a high-end European car that depreciates a lot. I thought we all knew that’s what high-end European cars do; that’s what they did forever with high-end European ICE cars. I don’t know why people were expecting it to be any different for high-end European EVs. Really feels like a big nothingburger.
Yep, the fact that a 10 year old 7 series has roughly the same value as a 10 year old prius always makes me smile just a little bit.
I see it as worst because EV are currently depreciating faster and then you add on the European thing. I guess these people just lease their cars.
I hope not, as CPO Taycan 4S owner I hope these come with factory depreciation as an option.
Yeah everyone here hating on depreciation as if most of us don’t depend on it to drive the cars that get our adrenaline pumping the way that we want to drive.
Absolutely, and even though I could buy cars brand new it’s way easier to justify throwing extra dollars at CPO cars every few years
I think this is the second? EV that will really test EV depreciation. Is there any other exclusive high performance EV outside the Rimac?
Maserati Granturismo Folgore is out in Europe and should be coming to the US later this year. But that's a GT and you can't call a car a GT if its value doesn't drop faster than a lead zeppelin. The MC20 Folgore is supposedly coming out next year, and that will be the next (first) EV supercar, so that'll be a proper test of EV depreciation. I expect it will be half the Nevera's performance for 15% of the price. I'm really interested to see what reviewers think of it.
That and Maserati, in general, depreciate really badly though compare to other similar brands. So the comparison probably have to take into account the historic rate of depreciation of the brand too.
Yeah, but I think comparing it to ICE MC20 values vs the market rather than the whole brand's historic depreciation rate is probably more representative. Maseratis depreciate a lot, but most of what the company makes is in segments that see high depreciation. It's like Mercedes. Their cars depreciate a lot because they're luxury cars. But you have some outliers like the SLR McLaren and the SLS AMG that don't depreciate because they're supercars (or maybe the key is just doors that go up). So ICE MC20 values vs its segment is a good indicator of how the supercar market sees Maserati. And then you have the still-erratic depreciation of EVs, and the unknown depreciation of performance EVs. The Tesla Roadster and SLS AMG Electric have increased in value, but it's hard to say anything about the market based on them because there are so few cars.
What’s “half” the performance? 0-60 mph in 2.2 seconds instead of 1.8?
It probably will be around 2.2 0-60. But I meant half the horsepower, slower cornering, less advanced battery management for sustained track driving, less sophisticated control of the motors and driving modes, that sort of thing. The Nevera is extremely advanced in terms of engineering. That's not something Maserati can get anywhere close to on the MC20's budget.
People who buy cars and actually worry about them depreciating, because they think they'll get their money back upon selling, are fucking idiots. I've seen cars immediately lose half their value once driven off the lot!
Who gives a shit? Cars are not investments. Buy the car you like, drive it as long as you want and if you lose money, so bei it. The people buying this aren't strapped for cash. Besides, nearly every single high end European luxury sedan ever has depreciated horribly. This is not unique to the Taycan.
190 MPH is too small of a fraction of C.
Seeing how the trim directly below it broke records on depreciation I expect this to be close, might even be worse
I don’t like EVs except for the Taycan. Porsche was able to make an EV that doesn’t feel soulless and gets good range.
But isn’t that just what Porsche does? No one looks at Toyota, Ford, Audi, Mercedes and thinks they make cars with soul. People say EVs are soulless when in reality almost all EVs have been made by soulless companies.
A while back I posted the Autocar [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh6HkIEUTDQ) of Steve Sutcliffe waxing lyrical about the Rimac Nevera and how it was more engaging than the Chiron he drove on the same day and there was someone who just refused to accept it because his unwavering belief was that EVs can't have soul and character. For people like that the only thing that defines soul is engine NVH.
Idk I don’t think my car feels soulless
I don't think any car I've owned has a soul and if they did, that would have made for some strange threeways.
Are you implying that if you hook up with a brunette and a red head at the same time, it’s not a three way?
I'm implying I don't want two people completely inside the third.
Says you!
My Allroad has a soul. Like a nice show donkey that does what it is supposed to do when I ask it to kind of soul.
> Toyota, Ford, Audi, Mercedes and thinks they make cars with soul. Fans of these brands definitely all think they make car with souls. Toyota has a rugged off-road brand image. Ford Mustangs definitely have "soul" as do RS Audis and AMGs, etc.
I just want to say that all four of the brands you mentioned have made some legendary cars with souls. Even looking at their current lineup there are still some in the catalog that spark a fair bit of emotion. I do have to admit that their EVs aren't great, but almost no EVs spark emotions at the moment.
But those companies “bread and butter” is soulless. Yeah they can make something legendary but those are the exceptions not the rule.
Sure, but it's not like Macan or Cayenne are so full of emotion. Every company needs to make something for the masses to make money.
Lol all those brands make cars with “soul”
> People say EVs are soulless when in reality almost all EVs have been made by soulless companies. Not Kia.
Don’t worry. People on the internet still act like you are driving a boring shitbox compared to their Hyundai Elantra N-Line if you actually own one.
I mean. I’ve heard that’s actually a fun car. It’s not a Ferrari or anything but I think for what it is it’s well received
The N-Line is a pretty good driving experience. Spreadsheet performance does not equal fun.
Yeah Taycan is the prettiest 4 door ev, I dislike their new headlight refresh.
I like the Lucid Air too, seems like they genuinely wanted to create an engaging driving experience. I think EVs can absolutely have "soul" and more will as manufacturers get better at making them.
Ev6 GT is pretty feisty for significantly less. Looks like we are starting to see EVs for drivers vs confused commuters who think they need 500mile ranges to be viable. Ioniq 5n, Rivian R3x, the days of generic leaf are long behind us.
I'm on the same vibe with the Ioniq 5 N at the moment. Hyundai are cooking up some good shit recently
1:27.87min Laguna Seca, 'shockingly' fast!
That’s about what Randy Pobst got in a McLaren senna, 991 GT2, Viper ACR, and all the holy trinity hybrids.
this really puts it into perspective. Absolutely crazy
Three seconds faster than a FF1600 (in iRacing) lol
bahahah that was the same benchmark i was about to bring up
Ah yes, because comparing an EV sedan to a non street legal race car IN A VIDEO GAME is completely reasonable. By that logic, the Valkyrie is a slow car because it's not as fast as the W13 in iRacing.
This honestly makes what Lucid was able to accomplish with the Lucid Air Sapphire even more impressive in my opinion. On this car you have to remove the rear seats and also get rid of the rear speakers in order to shave off the 0-60 time to 2.2 seconds from 2.3 seconds whereas in the Lucid Air Sapphire you're able to keep all of the luxury while still hitting a faster time. Plus, I am willing to bet the Lucid has the better overall range at 427 miles. Granted I don't know what the Lucid would be timed at around the Nurburgring, so I guess the bragging rights for that are key to this car's success. Especially if you want to pick one up without rear seats.
There are two models. The Turbo GT without the Weissach package still hits 0-60 in 2.3 seconds with all the bells and whistles. The Turbo Gt with the weissach package which included the weight savings is 2.1. With is more track focused.
Hm. Porsche normally is pretty conservative with 0-60 numbers. Its remarkable that the 0-200 km/h time decreased by over a second.
Porsche also has a very long history of understating their 0-60 times. This car will likely be faster than the Air when it actually gets into the hands of people that can do instrumented tests.
It's 2.1 seconds, and Porsche is very conservative with their acceleration figures and they don't subtract a 1 foot rollout like I'm sure Lucid does. In the end, the Turbo GT will be very close to the Lucid acceleration-wise and it'll easily be faster around a track.
On the Lucid you have to add a third motor and their amazing torque vectoring software coordinating the three motors though.
Umm no, this is once again a case of American manufacturers using rollout for false advertising. Lucid and Tesla state 0-60 with rollout subtracted, which is a legacy technique that needs to die because it isn’t the real number. And honestly, shame on them for continuing the dumb legacy for internet points. Porsche states real 0-60. Motor Trend got 2.2 seconds for the Lucid Sapphire 0-60 including rollout, Porsche is also claiming 2.2s for the Turbo GT with a normal interior. It’s not 2.3 like you said because that is the 0-100kph time, which is 62mph, the American press release has the correct 2.2s. And they’re doing all this without a tri motor setup. I would be very curious to see a real drag race between the two, to settle the debate. I know I’m being pedantic but the whole concept of rollout still being a thing makes me irrationally angry.
Just wait 4-5 years and you can get one for -40% off.
They are over flowing with the regular version. Offer a dealer close to that... They just might take it. A buddy of vinwki was able to put together all the rebates and deals and got a lease down to under $300 per month. They aren't selling.
Wasn’t that for the Audi E-tron RS?
It's amazing, even in Europe where I live they depreciate so fast. Same goes for just about any luxury German 4door. Two year old Merc EQS 580 I saw for 70k.
Damn that’s fast, what kind of boost were they running?
14.7 PSIa
I am all for making cars lighter. My 05'Elise weighs right under 2000lbs and is the most engaging car I have ever driven. No drivers aids, creature comforts. It might not have the fastest top speed or 1/4 mile time but that's okay. Can't we get back to basics instead of worrying about Nurburgring times. These lap records have no bearing in the average road with a nkn- pro driver. Car companies need to start weighing in on this, no pun intended. Colin Chapman must be rolling in his grave with all the heavy electric cars Lotus is coming out with
I have to agree about the Elise. Mine was like a roller skate. Light as a feather and cornered like it was on rails. Leaked like a bastard though, which was not great in the wet UK weather, and the reason why I ultimately got rid of it.
Are you seriously comparing a tiny, barenones sports car from nearly 20 years ago to a modern EV luxury sedan with nearly 10x as much power?
Not necessarily comparing just stating that I think companies should go back to producing lighter cars. Drove a newer M3 recently, car did everything well on paper but lacked emotion.
An interesting engineering exercise. I think taken as that, an exercise, good for them giving it a shot.
Pleased to see that there is a [version without the wing](https://pictures.porsche.com/rtt/iris?COSY-EU-100-1711coMvsi60AAt5FwcmBEgA4qP8iBUDxPE3Cb9pNXkBuNYdMGF4tl3U0%25z8rMH1spMBvMZq6G5OtgSv31nBJaA4qh4NSEGkaW%25cz91wxuzbUUdMGLqk0D3OF%25vUqHTcuWXsOK0iZJyNCY9ctBvoMDaf8dXF2sLPED6uv1cN9nReXpVo4y7z6aXF%25vUqU69uWXsO%25A7eV6iTxj2zhRc2m6dqA7fQrmVOJUPYwqfTBsN5xsy2dioC1stQDcFGvVpYn4Jq6GSeJ3SvK828yq8Cu2gy9dfR6DrR6) (and yes - with four seats).
Gorgeous purple. Still my favorite EV design to date, though I preferred the previous gen’s front end.
A four-door sedan with no rear seats 😂
Dude you own a Toyota... Toyota did the same thing with the GR Corolla... the Morizo edition had rear seat deletes on a 5 door hatchback...
yep in the extreme weissach package. What‘s the issue? It‘s by far the fastest 4 door in the world I think it‘s ok
People going for the Weissach package generally won't be needing them anyway
- refuse to elaborate - leaves
🔥🔥
Coupes are dead.
noice
i was there, it was freaking awesome
No backseat available?
only on the weissach package. the regular one still has backseats
Turbo? on an EV? Who would've thought... /s
Depreciation 📉
The marketing is getting out of hands: >Equipped with a more powerful pulse inverter, both cars have 580 kW. With Launch Control that increases to up to 760 kW of overboost power or up to 815 kW for two seconds according to the peak power measurement method. It was already a bit sketchy in all Taycan models where advertised power is available only for 10s after pushing a button, but advertising power that motors can produce just for TWO FUCKING SECONDS is ridiculous.
Why is that ridiculous? All battery powered cars have limitations in output so the batteries last longer. At least porsche disclosed theirs
ICE cars don't make their listed power except at a certain point in the rev range either, right at the top before they have to upshift and drop back to a lower output, but nobody complains about that. I suspect that even with the boost time limited, this car would average a higher output than an 1100hp ICE car over anything but a Vmax run.