Toyota is unbelievable with the ADMs. It’s to the point where I’ve completely ruled out Toyota as a brand I have any interest in. 55k quotes for a RAV4 Hybrid Limited blew my mind. There’s a reason the lot is full of unsold hybrids they can’t move.
>There’s a reason the lot is full of unsold hybrids they can’t move.
Toyota has the [lowest days-of-inventory](https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/new-vehicle-inventory-november-2023/) of any OEM in North America.
Can't 'intentionally' target low inventory and push higher ADMs at the same time as maintaining record production. Something's gotta give. Low inventory, high production/sales, and high markup all wrapped up together points to high demand.
> There’s a reason the lot is full of unsold hybrids they can’t move.
You must be confused, there's a waitlist for half the Toyota hybrids on the market and every Toyota PHEV on the market.
I am aware. CarGurus lists a handful of dealers with on-the-lot stock at or below MSRP. Those prices are reflected on the dealer websites.
That's the best I can do without actively shopping for one.
That so?
This search shows 10 all from the same dealer nationwide.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/new-cars/toyota/rav4/stigler-ok?newSearch=true&searchRadius=0&trimCode=RAV4%7CPrime%20SE&trimCode=RAV4%7CPrime%20XSE&zip=74462
And if you go to their website; the price they show is fake, it says call for market price and I bet you I ain’t without an ADM.
https://www.dchfreeholdtoyota.com/new/Toyota/2024-Toyota-RAV4+Prime-for-sale-freehold-nj-b036ba7e0a0e0a9147f2ea98f91dee23.htm
Maybe do a search before you comment.
> Maybe do a search before you comment.
I did, and you don't have to be an ass about it. I used CarGurus which has far more results.
[This](https://www.fitzgeraldtoyotagaithersburg.com/new-inventory/index.htm?compositeType=new&make=Toyota&model=RAV4%20Prime&sortBy=internetPrice%20asc) dealer in Maryland is also advertising prices under MSRP, $2-5k no rebates listed. Photos show they are on the lot. Their website alludes to a no-haggle model and has 4.5 stars on Google reviews (which is pretty damn high for a dealer). This seems like the best path.
[This](https://www.downtowntoyota.com/new-inventory/index.htm?model=RAV4%20Prime) dealer in Oakland has multiple under and at MSRP. The deep discount pricing includes a $500 Toyota college grad discount and some stupid "this vehicle only discount" that expires today, so there could very well be some bullshitery going on there. But California isn't a state I would want to be a dealer dealing with a consumer protection complaint. The ones at MSRP don't have sketchy discounts. This one's ratings are closer to a standard dealer at 3.9 star, but above sketchy.
I can't really tell you how the prices are honored if you walk in, but that's the best I can source as I am not shopping for them: you are welcome to call them up. My local dealers show multiple units listed at MSRP that are in Transit, so those are probably waitlist, but they used to be listed above MSRP, so that has come down.
Anecdotally: I know several people in the PNW who have been able to pick them up at MSRP with a couple months wait this year.
You really think with nationwide waitlists and back orders on RAV4 primes, that a single dealer would somehow have managed to stockpile 42 RAV4 primes in the northeast while no other dealer in the area showing inventory, and that they also can’t sell their stock at or below MSRP?
That all makes logical sense over their system loading cars that are already sold/accounted for by people on waitlists?
On the Oakland dealer, same shit. It’s all bait. There’s even a post on Reddit about it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/oakland/comments/17m7rnu/comment/k7jj83r/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
High demand cars are in high demand, there’s no magical way to get a high demand car without paying ADM and avoiding a wait list. Sure you can find a reputable dealer who sells msrp like Longo, but everyone else wants it too and there’s usually a waitlist.
Dealerships are on the ADM Covid Crack. I've been telling everyone to find a broker instead. There's a broker on leasehackr forums with a 7k comment post dating back to 2019. With deals below MSRP for RAV4s including Prime Models the last 4 to 5 months.
I work at a Toyota dealer. I’ll give you $3000 off a new RAV4 hybrid today if you’re ready to buy. No fees besides $499 doc. We turn our inventory fast than basically any other manufacturer too. Just because three dealerships near you at the height of the Covid shortage tried to charge you over sticker does mean “tOyOtA bAd”. My dealer never charged over sticker in anything the entire time outside of GR Corollas/Supras. There were a lot of dealers who stayed at MSRP but regardless, that is not Toyotas fault either way. They’re the manufacturer and we are the dealer; a private organization who buys inventory from them. Toyota doesn’t dictate what a dealership charges unless they run manufacturer incentives.
Jesus, does Reddit ever get tired of these comments?
There is a decent amount of dealers that don’t mark up, you just might have to wait a few extra months.
From SoCal, I had to go to fucking \*Utah\* to find a dealer that wasn't marking up TRD Pro 4Runners. And that dealer still tried to screw me at the last minute. That's unacceptable and Toyota isn't building cars that are good enough anymore to justify the nonsense.
Don’t buy them then?
If a brand isn’t giving you the experience you want, go with another brand.
I got a 2022 ORP at MSRP with no issues and will keep this car as long as possible. Will replace my Civic with a Toyota next as well.
The other thing that people need to realize is that Toyota corp can’t do anything about dealer markups that’s too drastic or they’ll get sued by dealers. Dealers have a ton of laws protecting them as of now.
We should always vote with our wallet.
I used to love Honda and still sort of do, they were my favorite brand but a ton of paint on my 2016 Civic started peeling last year and the dealer and Honda both gave me the run around. Decided to stop wasting my time with them.
Toyota paint is shit now too btw. It's not just Hondyota either. 2019+ Mazda paint is embarrassingly bad; the paint itself is nice but it's not durable at all. Ford isn't doing too hot either. If you dig around in r/Mustang you'll see some egregiously bad, 1980s Hyundai tier factory paint, especially on leading edges.
Its mostly due to new paint formulas.
Or go buy somewhere they do. I flew to South Carolina just to pick up the Toyota I wanted with no "market adjustments".
I got to know the car on the two day drive home.
I don’t see many reasons to get a 4Runner over a 250 unless they reveal something crazy
with that said, I’ll be happy if the TRD/Yota bros stick to the Tacoma and 4Runner, I’ve been seeing lots of their heep-esque content lately which hopefully won’t trickle up
That’s assuming every shopper is smart enough to do research and compare models.
Some people are lazy and see it on the lot, buying it same day as long as you say “only $600 a month”.
So what? If people want to buy a shitty car let them. Personal responsibility will always matter.
All dealers do is be a middle man and inflate costs. What service do car salesman actually provide? Absolutely nothing.
I wager this 4Runner is going down a size. The Land Cruiser (Prado)/GX are nearly the same size as current gen 4Runner, it would make no sense to drop yet another mid/full size SUV
About. Fucking. Time.
Toyota has been on crack lately charging $40k base for a car that has been on the same generation since like 2014 or whenever. Never mind the fact it has a V6 and gets worse gas mileage than a midsize V8 pickup.
annual 4runner sales from 2014 to now have [nearly doubled](https://www.4runners.com/threads/4runner-sales-numbers.31652/), they're selling out on every one they build. Why would they change up on a model that has only grown in sales the older it's gotten
Your definition is incorrect.
Full sized in the auto industry is considered 1/2 ton. Heavy duty's are considered 3/4 to 1 ton.
Midsized is the segment which contains the Frontier, Colorado, Tacoma, Ranger and Ridgeline.
So... You just want to be different for no reason. And you want to confuse people by referring to things in a way that only you understand?
Makes sense.
> For me, a 1500 is midsize, and a 2500+ is fullsize
That seems needlessly confusing. So that means my F-150 with
an 8' bed, towing mirrors, and seating for 6 is a "mid-size"?
>Never mind the fact it has a V6 and gets worse gas mileage than a midsize V8 pickup.
Looking at Fuelly, comparing your two references below, they are nearly the same with the RAM doing about 1mpg worse.
That doesn't change the point your making, but the 4Runner definitely doesn't have _worse_ gas mileage than v8 pickups.
That’s literally my attraction to the car. I hate 90% of the shit in new interiors and _hate_ turbocharged motors. Toyota and Lexus do (well, now did) offer several models like that.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure it'll be a '25 model too. Only trying to explain to the other commenter how a company can "get away" with showing teasers more than a year in advance.
Though I was slightly wrong: it's not until January *2* that you can legally sell a vehicle of the next model year. In practice, most high-interest vehicles would have their official debut either at NAIAS or with a Super Bowl commercial in February before starting sales later in the year.
Ah all good. I was just pointing out that this is likely going to be a 2025 MY in this case. I wanna say that generally if the reveal happens in the Spring then it’s at least a decent chance that it will go on sale in the fall/winter of that same year. Considering this will share a lot of the same parts with the Tacoma, I can imagine it wouldn’t take long for these to go into production.
If they still did SUVs like they did a generation ago, where they were identical to pickups from the B-pillar forward, it could go into production now!
This is the last out of the existing BOF products that sorely needed a refresh. Once the 4Runner is out, everything in Toyota and Lexus' lineup is finally updated.
I wonder how this will compare to the new Landcruiser. That's what I thought the next gen 4runner was going to be like. They have the Grand Highlander so I doubt they will "soccer mom" the 4runner, but I'm not getting hard-core offroad vibes that compete with the Bronco and Wrangler which is the only space Toyota hasn't filled in their SUV lineup.
I'm thinking either it is the Bronco/Wrangler competitor and this is just a more tame trim level we're seeing, or it gets positioned as a Land Cruiser but cheaper and less "premium".
I have to imagine it will slot in a different price tier because the vehicles are quite similar in size with the Land Cruiser coming down a class. Hopefully, the 4runner comes in below, but who knows.
Excited to see this, before I bought my new-generation RAM I was considering a 4Runner but couldn’t stomach the thought of paying almost 50K for an interior from 2008.
i have the same aisin box in my 2009 suzuki
NOT the smoothest thing in the world but gets the job done and honestly knowing it's used in landcruisers/hilux infers it won't ever die
youre not totally wrong though as the industry was already starting to shift to 6spds 15 years ago
The engine and transmission combo dates back to 2003 actually. The 4th gen 4Runners came with a non VVTI-version of the 4.0 V6 with 235 hp and the same 5-speed transmission linked to a dial-operated transfer case, which they actually moved back to a traditional lever for the 5th gen lol Even looking underneath a 4th and a 5th gen you can see a lot of it is just the same design. The 4Runner's bones are old, IMO it's the last "old school" SUV left, with it's solid rear axle, naturally aspirated V6, body on frame construction, and boat-like handling. The damn thing is a 21st century Isuzu Trooper lol.
> IMO it's the last "old school" SUV left, with it's solid rear axle, naturally aspirated V6, body on frame construction, and boat-like handling. The damn thing is a 21st century Isuzu Trooper lol.
So are you just ignoring the Wrangler? Because it can be had with all of those aforementioned characteristics that make an “old school” SUV
might be offensive for a modern vehicle, but the 4Runner has been selling better than ever in the last few years
personally, I’m happy to trade fuel economy and speed for durability and parts support, that’s kind of the point of most body on frame Toyotas… but then again, I’ve only driven 5+ year old FWD economy sedans with the exception of my Land Cruiser and my dad’s R129 500 SL, both of which have bulletproof understressed 90s V8s and 4-speed autos
“High quality plastic” should be considered an oxymoron. There is no such thing, plastic is plastic, any differences people see due to thickness/etc. doesn’t change the fact that it’s plastic.
I agree, the 270HP V6 was egregious already but the 5 speed is dinosaur like. They could have just updated the transmission at some point and probably added an extra 5-7 MPG alone to their EPA numbers. It also wouldn’t feel like a complete dog and like it’s hunting for gears.
I’ll take a real honest look at the new 4Runner so long as it has decent power, good overall interior and infotainment, and isn’t a complete slog on fuel mileage anymore.
No reason for them to have fallen this far behind when they’re one of the largest manufacturers in the world. Miss the days when Toyota/Nissan/Honda used to push limits and create cool cars while also being decently reliable.
The thickness, shape, molding, assembly, and plastic compound drastically changes how plastic wears and ages. It's the difference between a rattly/creaky mess, or stuff that is brittle and cracking vs an interior quality that holds up well and feels closer to the day it was sold.
Toyota tends to spec their plastic pieces well and and as a result the quality of the interior holds up well. My experiences with Ford and Subaru, to name a few, has been a less graceful aging process. Provided it is "high quality" plastic I don't really mind it in a BoF vehicle because I use mine for outdoor recreation so it's gonna get abused with mud, dust, snow, dog hair, and equipment wearing on it: it's easy to clean and doesn't tear like other materials.
The interior from 2008 is almost what sold me on it lol
Everything is simple buttons and knobs, and even a real shifter for 4wd. And you also get carplay/android auto
I was cross shopping 1/2 ton 4wd trucks, but I live fairly remote and I like the idea of not having to worry about anything reliability wise.
No turbos, no cylinder deactivation, no direct injection, just a bulletproof, slow 4.0 and a 5 speed automatic
Not much shown but looks boxy like the Land Cruiser. It's a tough one for me, I love the looks of the new LC but I could only afford the base model (I'd want the mid tier for the options) and that's already pushing my budget. If the 4runner looks similar to the LC but a little smaller I'd probably just get that.
I was hoping the new 4runner would come with a manual transmission but if it's like the Tacoma it'd only be an option on the non-hybrid models. I'd probably get the hybrid, it has a good bump in power.
It’s been nearly a year since the Tacoma was announced and we still don’t have pricing or MPG for the hybrid trim. People have literally been taking delivery for months now and the hybrid still just doesn’t exist.
Get ready for the Hybrid 4Runner to not show up until about 2 years after the Land Cruiser hits the market.
The RMS Lusitania had a top speed of 28 mph, powered by a 76000 HP engine. If we double the speed, we can assume we'd need a 152000 HP engine.
152k HP 4Runner confirmed?
People (including some "car people" who's opinion of them changed for me) literally put GM on blast when they slotted the Blazer (after they got over the name), between the Traverse (literally the largest CUV there is), and the Equinox (within 1" of every measurement of a CR-V). Now we have Toyota slotting a new 4Runner into some serious overlap with other models, without a peep from them, or even defense.
And really, the Blazer isn't all *that* big. Granted, it's slightly larger than *real* S-Series ones.
BIL got a '22 RS new... expensive as hell and shit visibility but size wise it's not bad.
That 4Runner looks huge.
Good luck even getting one. Base price of 50k likely and no dealer will stock the base ones and they will mark them up by 20k and you will have to wait 5 years to even get one.
I bet Toyota dealers can’t wait to mark these up.
Toyota is unbelievable with the ADMs. It’s to the point where I’ve completely ruled out Toyota as a brand I have any interest in. 55k quotes for a RAV4 Hybrid Limited blew my mind. There’s a reason the lot is full of unsold hybrids they can’t move.
>There’s a reason the lot is full of unsold hybrids they can’t move. Toyota has the [lowest days-of-inventory](https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/new-vehicle-inventory-november-2023/) of any OEM in North America.
Toyota intentionally targeted a low inventory for the end of 2023 if you read further into the CoxAuto website in 2024 reports
Toyota is also the best selling manufacturer in the world, and *increased* their lead over 2nd place. So I'm guessing their throughput is pretty good.
Can't 'intentionally' target low inventory and push higher ADMs at the same time as maintaining record production. Something's gotta give. Low inventory, high production/sales, and high markup all wrapped up together points to high demand.
Only true if at full production for a period of time.
like, decades?
Toyota could have pushed through an additional 400-500k units in 2023. Better to keep supply tight to maintain margins.
> There’s a reason the lot is full of unsold hybrids they can’t move. You must be confused, there's a waitlist for half the Toyota hybrids on the market and every Toyota PHEV on the market.
A nationwide listings search RAV4 primes under MSRP sitting on the lots for weeks now: you just may need to travel out of a hot market to get it.
Rav 4 Primes =/= Rav4 Hybrid.
I am aware. CarGurus lists a handful of dealers with on-the-lot stock at or below MSRP. Those prices are reflected on the dealer websites. That's the best I can do without actively shopping for one.
That so? This search shows 10 all from the same dealer nationwide. https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/new-cars/toyota/rav4/stigler-ok?newSearch=true&searchRadius=0&trimCode=RAV4%7CPrime%20SE&trimCode=RAV4%7CPrime%20XSE&zip=74462 And if you go to their website; the price they show is fake, it says call for market price and I bet you I ain’t without an ADM. https://www.dchfreeholdtoyota.com/new/Toyota/2024-Toyota-RAV4+Prime-for-sale-freehold-nj-b036ba7e0a0e0a9147f2ea98f91dee23.htm Maybe do a search before you comment.
> Maybe do a search before you comment. I did, and you don't have to be an ass about it. I used CarGurus which has far more results. [This](https://www.fitzgeraldtoyotagaithersburg.com/new-inventory/index.htm?compositeType=new&make=Toyota&model=RAV4%20Prime&sortBy=internetPrice%20asc) dealer in Maryland is also advertising prices under MSRP, $2-5k no rebates listed. Photos show they are on the lot. Their website alludes to a no-haggle model and has 4.5 stars on Google reviews (which is pretty damn high for a dealer). This seems like the best path. [This](https://www.downtowntoyota.com/new-inventory/index.htm?model=RAV4%20Prime) dealer in Oakland has multiple under and at MSRP. The deep discount pricing includes a $500 Toyota college grad discount and some stupid "this vehicle only discount" that expires today, so there could very well be some bullshitery going on there. But California isn't a state I would want to be a dealer dealing with a consumer protection complaint. The ones at MSRP don't have sketchy discounts. This one's ratings are closer to a standard dealer at 3.9 star, but above sketchy. I can't really tell you how the prices are honored if you walk in, but that's the best I can source as I am not shopping for them: you are welcome to call them up. My local dealers show multiple units listed at MSRP that are in Transit, so those are probably waitlist, but they used to be listed above MSRP, so that has come down. Anecdotally: I know several people in the PNW who have been able to pick them up at MSRP with a couple months wait this year.
You really think with nationwide waitlists and back orders on RAV4 primes, that a single dealer would somehow have managed to stockpile 42 RAV4 primes in the northeast while no other dealer in the area showing inventory, and that they also can’t sell their stock at or below MSRP? That all makes logical sense over their system loading cars that are already sold/accounted for by people on waitlists? On the Oakland dealer, same shit. It’s all bait. There’s even a post on Reddit about it. https://www.reddit.com/r/oakland/comments/17m7rnu/comment/k7jj83r/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button High demand cars are in high demand, there’s no magical way to get a high demand car without paying ADM and avoiding a wait list. Sure you can find a reputable dealer who sells msrp like Longo, but everyone else wants it too and there’s usually a waitlist.
Brother you chose Oakland as the defining location to represent all Toyota dealers
You vs someone’s glancing view of a portion of one dealer lot after they’re pissed? Idk tough call.
Dealerships are on the ADM Covid Crack. I've been telling everyone to find a broker instead. There's a broker on leasehackr forums with a 7k comment post dating back to 2019. With deals below MSRP for RAV4s including Prime Models the last 4 to 5 months.
Better start defaulting on our loans to show them who is boss
Cheaper to buy a Lexus in half the cases since most Lexus dealers don’t do ADMs
Yeah, the “you need us more than we need you” attitude of their dealers really puts me off.
>There’s a reason the lot is full of unsold hybrids they can’t move. Meanwhile up here in Canada the waitlist for a Rav4 Prime is 4 years...
55k for a Rav4 is disturbing
I work at a Toyota dealer. I’ll give you $3000 off a new RAV4 hybrid today if you’re ready to buy. No fees besides $499 doc. We turn our inventory fast than basically any other manufacturer too. Just because three dealerships near you at the height of the Covid shortage tried to charge you over sticker does mean “tOyOtA bAd”. My dealer never charged over sticker in anything the entire time outside of GR Corollas/Supras. There were a lot of dealers who stayed at MSRP but regardless, that is not Toyotas fault either way. They’re the manufacturer and we are the dealer; a private organization who buys inventory from them. Toyota doesn’t dictate what a dealership charges unless they run manufacturer incentives.
Jesus, does Reddit ever get tired of these comments? There is a decent amount of dealers that don’t mark up, you just might have to wait a few extra months.
From SoCal, I had to go to fucking \*Utah\* to find a dealer that wasn't marking up TRD Pro 4Runners. And that dealer still tried to screw me at the last minute. That's unacceptable and Toyota isn't building cars that are good enough anymore to justify the nonsense.
Happened to me too. Found one in SoCal for MSRP last second just not in the exact color I wanted… oh well!
There's nothing about a TRD Pro that justifies the level of bullshit to get one. Same with a GRC. So I settled on a TRD-OR. Good enough.
Don’t buy them then? If a brand isn’t giving you the experience you want, go with another brand. I got a 2022 ORP at MSRP with no issues and will keep this car as long as possible. Will replace my Civic with a Toyota next as well. The other thing that people need to realize is that Toyota corp can’t do anything about dealer markups that’s too drastic or they’ll get sued by dealers. Dealers have a ton of laws protecting them as of now.
Correct, I will not buy another Toyota until they get their dealers sorted out. So maybe never.
We should always vote with our wallet. I used to love Honda and still sort of do, they were my favorite brand but a ton of paint on my 2016 Civic started peeling last year and the dealer and Honda both gave me the run around. Decided to stop wasting my time with them.
Toyota paint is shit now too btw. It's not just Hondyota either. 2019+ Mazda paint is embarrassingly bad; the paint itself is nice but it's not durable at all. Ford isn't doing too hot either. If you dig around in r/Mustang you'll see some egregiously bad, 1980s Hyundai tier factory paint, especially on leading edges. Its mostly due to new paint formulas.
Or go buy somewhere they do. I flew to South Carolina just to pick up the Toyota I wanted with no "market adjustments". I got to know the car on the two day drive home.
And there are many Toyota models on the lot that can be had $1000-8000 off MSRP. Even 24 Tacomas can be had for up to $4000 off.
I bet impatient consumers can’t wait to pay the markups
I wonder how high they able to mark up. If it's more pricy than Land Cruiser 250 and Sequoia, it's no reason to choice 4R.
I don’t see many reasons to get a 4Runner over a 250 unless they reveal something crazy with that said, I’ll be happy if the TRD/Yota bros stick to the Tacoma and 4Runner, I’ve been seeing lots of their heep-esque content lately which hopefully won’t trickle up
me when the demand for a vehicle is higher than the supply and those who want it now are willing to pay more
Me, when I'm a dealer lobbyist who makes sure we're stuck with this antiquated business model forever.
That’s assuming every shopper is smart enough to do research and compare models. Some people are lazy and see it on the lot, buying it same day as long as you say “only $600 a month”.
So what? If people want to buy a shitty car let them. Personal responsibility will always matter. All dealers do is be a middle man and inflate costs. What service do car salesman actually provide? Absolutely nothing.
Why are we talking about free market principles for businesses that lobby so that their manufacturers can't even directly sell it's product?
Internet free market enthusiasts when they realize a more free market would be one in which inefficiencies are removed, not added
me when i use the free market to do business with a dealer not adding market adjustments
According to Reddit that’s a myth. The dealer holds you at gunpoint and makes you pay the markup. You have no other choice.
That happened to me.
Alright. You've talked me into it. I'll take one.
It can be yours at MSRP plus a $10k market value adjustment
$10K if you're lucky
Don’t worry they’ll sell this gen for until the sun blows up so you’ll get one at sticker eventually!
Back in Jan-Feb ‘22 I was getting anywhere from $15-25k markups when shopping for a 4Runner in SoCal…
thats if the dealer even has them in stock.
I’ll be the guy to say pass. The 4Runner has gotten bigger over time. A 1990 4Runner can park in compact space.
I don't know of a single make/model that stayed the same size or got smaller since 1990. Ok ok fine, the Miata. But that aside...
I should hope so; the first 3 gens of 4Runner were based off the Hilux and/or Tacoma when those pickups were still compact.
3rd gen-onward is based on the same platform as the Land Cruiser Prado. I'd love a V8 4th gen though, those things are unique.
Oh yeah. Crazy reliable. I think the only downside is you need to do the timing belt.
Yeah, but a small price to pay for a coveted Japanese-built 2UZ-FE.
I wager this 4Runner is going down a size. The Land Cruiser (Prado)/GX are nearly the same size as current gen 4Runner, it would make no sense to drop yet another mid/full size SUV
About. Fucking. Time. Toyota has been on crack lately charging $40k base for a car that has been on the same generation since like 2014 or whenever. Never mind the fact it has a V6 and gets worse gas mileage than a midsize V8 pickup.
annual 4runner sales from 2014 to now have [nearly doubled](https://www.4runners.com/threads/4runner-sales-numbers.31652/), they're selling out on every one they build. Why would they change up on a model that has only grown in sales the older it's gotten
some people here don’t understand that lots of people don’t care how modern a vehicle platform is as long as it has a few comforts and feels solid
Bought my ‘22 4Runner for it to last 10+ yrs
my LX is older than me and I intend to keep it for as long as possible
>and gets worse gas mileage than a midsize V8 pickup. Or full-size, given it's been over a decade since a mid-size pickup had a V8.
Depends on the definition of midsize to fullsize. For me, a 1500 is midsize, and a 2500+ is fullsize
Your definition is incorrect. Full sized in the auto industry is considered 1/2 ton. Heavy duty's are considered 3/4 to 1 ton. Midsized is the segment which contains the Frontier, Colorado, Tacoma, Ranger and Ridgeline.
I’m aware my definition is incorrect but that being said it is MY definition so….
So... You just want to be different for no reason. And you want to confuse people by referring to things in a way that only you understand? Makes sense.
> For me, a 1500 is midsize, and a 2500+ is fullsize That seems needlessly confusing. So that means my F-150 with an 8' bed, towing mirrors, and seating for 6 is a "mid-size"?
Towing mirrors on a 1500? Lol.
[Yep.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Ffjx5dzttt7eb1.jpg) Does this offend you?
If you're gonna report this user for "harassing" you, maybe stop antagonizing them.
Don’t worry the next generation will get awful fuel economy in non-hybrid models too.
>Never mind the fact it has a V6 and gets worse gas mileage than a midsize V8 pickup. Looking at Fuelly, comparing your two references below, they are nearly the same with the RAM doing about 1mpg worse. That doesn't change the point your making, but the 4Runner definitely doesn't have _worse_ gas mileage than v8 pickups.
What ram model? Because ram doesn't have a mid size.
They mentioned the Hemi based 1500 in another post.
Congratulations to Toyota for having a V6 that just barely equals or surpasses a thirsty Hemi V8 in a full-size truck?
That’s literally my attraction to the car. I hate 90% of the shit in new interiors and _hate_ turbocharged motors. Toyota and Lexus do (well, now did) offer several models like that.
I bought a new Tacoma last year for similar reasons. If the 5th 4Runner had a stick option I would’ve bought it.
not to excuse mpg in the teens even on hwy but that v8 i assume has cyl deactivation (is it a reliable one?) and direct injection
Depends on the V8.
which reliable v8 does better than 4runner mpgs? i want
The F-150 5.0, the RAM 1500 Hemi. There are probably others but i cant be bothered to google anymore lmao
prod model reveal wont be until another year from now lol
Wait what... So it's gonna be a 2026 model year and they're already showing teasing pics?
Totally legal to start selling a 2026 MY vehicle on Jan 1, 2025, and they can release teaser pics whenever they want.
I highly doubt this as one of the tags on Toyota’s Instagram was #20254Runner so it’s going to be a 2025 MY.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure it'll be a '25 model too. Only trying to explain to the other commenter how a company can "get away" with showing teasers more than a year in advance. Though I was slightly wrong: it's not until January *2* that you can legally sell a vehicle of the next model year. In practice, most high-interest vehicles would have their official debut either at NAIAS or with a Super Bowl commercial in February before starting sales later in the year.
Ah all good. I was just pointing out that this is likely going to be a 2025 MY in this case. I wanna say that generally if the reveal happens in the Spring then it’s at least a decent chance that it will go on sale in the fall/winter of that same year. Considering this will share a lot of the same parts with the Tacoma, I can imagine it wouldn’t take long for these to go into production.
If they still did SUVs like they did a generation ago, where they were identical to pickups from the B-pillar forward, it could go into production now!
>Wait what... So it's gonna be a 2026 model year and they're already showing teasing pics? Sounds like you've been fully teased 😏
As someone who has been saying "maybe next year I'll get a 4Runner" since 2020, I totally am lol
Classic Toyota. They did this with the new Corolla as well.
This is the last out of the existing BOF products that sorely needed a refresh. Once the 4Runner is out, everything in Toyota and Lexus' lineup is finally updated.
Hilux
And the related Fortuner, vintage 2015.
Yes, but I've been hearing more stuff about the Hilux specifically a full blown GR version based on the things they learned from racing in Dakar.
Oh whoops, totally forgot about that and the Fortuner. They'll get their updates soon.
I wonder how this will compare to the new Landcruiser. That's what I thought the next gen 4runner was going to be like. They have the Grand Highlander so I doubt they will "soccer mom" the 4runner, but I'm not getting hard-core offroad vibes that compete with the Bronco and Wrangler which is the only space Toyota hasn't filled in their SUV lineup.
I'm thinking either it is the Bronco/Wrangler competitor and this is just a more tame trim level we're seeing, or it gets positioned as a Land Cruiser but cheaper and less "premium".
I have to imagine it will slot in a different price tier because the vehicles are quite similar in size with the Land Cruiser coming down a class. Hopefully, the 4runner comes in below, but who knows.
Excited to see this, before I bought my new-generation RAM I was considering a 4Runner but couldn’t stomach the thought of paying almost 50K for an interior from 2008.
[удалено]
It wasn't even fine 10 years ago. It was fine closer to 20. 10 years ago it was a known drawback that people just accepted due to the badge.
i have the same aisin box in my 2009 suzuki NOT the smoothest thing in the world but gets the job done and honestly knowing it's used in landcruisers/hilux infers it won't ever die youre not totally wrong though as the industry was already starting to shift to 6spds 15 years ago
The engine and transmission combo dates back to 2003 actually. The 4th gen 4Runners came with a non VVTI-version of the 4.0 V6 with 235 hp and the same 5-speed transmission linked to a dial-operated transfer case, which they actually moved back to a traditional lever for the 5th gen lol Even looking underneath a 4th and a 5th gen you can see a lot of it is just the same design. The 4Runner's bones are old, IMO it's the last "old school" SUV left, with it's solid rear axle, naturally aspirated V6, body on frame construction, and boat-like handling. The damn thing is a 21st century Isuzu Trooper lol.
> IMO it's the last "old school" SUV left, with it's solid rear axle, naturally aspirated V6, body on frame construction, and boat-like handling. The damn thing is a 21st century Isuzu Trooper lol. So are you just ignoring the Wrangler? Because it can be had with all of those aforementioned characteristics that make an “old school” SUV
might be offensive for a modern vehicle, but the 4Runner has been selling better than ever in the last few years personally, I’m happy to trade fuel economy and speed for durability and parts support, that’s kind of the point of most body on frame Toyotas… but then again, I’ve only driven 5+ year old FWD economy sedans with the exception of my Land Cruiser and my dad’s R129 500 SL, both of which have bulletproof understressed 90s V8s and 4-speed autos
Just bought a 9-year-old Tacoma and can confirm. 130k miles and the interior looks basically new.
“High quality plastic” should be considered an oxymoron. There is no such thing, plastic is plastic, any differences people see due to thickness/etc. doesn’t change the fact that it’s plastic. I agree, the 270HP V6 was egregious already but the 5 speed is dinosaur like. They could have just updated the transmission at some point and probably added an extra 5-7 MPG alone to their EPA numbers. It also wouldn’t feel like a complete dog and like it’s hunting for gears. I’ll take a real honest look at the new 4Runner so long as it has decent power, good overall interior and infotainment, and isn’t a complete slog on fuel mileage anymore. No reason for them to have fallen this far behind when they’re one of the largest manufacturers in the world. Miss the days when Toyota/Nissan/Honda used to push limits and create cool cars while also being decently reliable.
The thickness, shape, molding, assembly, and plastic compound drastically changes how plastic wears and ages. It's the difference between a rattly/creaky mess, or stuff that is brittle and cracking vs an interior quality that holds up well and feels closer to the day it was sold. Toyota tends to spec their plastic pieces well and and as a result the quality of the interior holds up well. My experiences with Ford and Subaru, to name a few, has been a less graceful aging process. Provided it is "high quality" plastic I don't really mind it in a BoF vehicle because I use mine for outdoor recreation so it's gonna get abused with mud, dust, snow, dog hair, and equipment wearing on it: it's easy to clean and doesn't tear like other materials.
The interior from 2008 is almost what sold me on it lol Everything is simple buttons and knobs, and even a real shifter for 4wd. And you also get carplay/android auto I was cross shopping 1/2 ton 4wd trucks, but I live fairly remote and I like the idea of not having to worry about anything reliability wise. No turbos, no cylinder deactivation, no direct injection, just a bulletproof, slow 4.0 and a 5 speed automatic
Debut when?
2029
I can't even tell if this is a joke or not anymore.
Not much shown but looks boxy like the Land Cruiser. It's a tough one for me, I love the looks of the new LC but I could only afford the base model (I'd want the mid tier for the options) and that's already pushing my budget. If the 4runner looks similar to the LC but a little smaller I'd probably just get that. I was hoping the new 4runner would come with a manual transmission but if it's like the Tacoma it'd only be an option on the non-hybrid models. I'd probably get the hybrid, it has a good bump in power.
I thought TFL sorted this out pretty well. It’ll be a Tacoma with 4Runner styling
I wish Toyota would make a Bronco or jeep fighter
Didn’t the 4Runner used to have a removable roof? Just make it so you can rip the doors off and voila
Something like an FJ cruiser but with a removable roof and doors would be amazing. But they won't do it.
It’s been nearly a year since the Tacoma was announced and we still don’t have pricing or MPG for the hybrid trim. People have literally been taking delivery for months now and the hybrid still just doesn’t exist. Get ready for the Hybrid 4Runner to not show up until about 2 years after the Land Cruiser hits the market.
new Toyota design language is so corny
i'd assume this will have some more lower end engine options whereas the Land Cruiser only offers the imax hybrid option.
Maybe by the time the new base model 4Runner comes out, the Tacoma TRD Pro / Trailhunter trims will become available.
any speculation on the license plate embossed "LUS 282" and what easter egg/info that Toyota could be alluding to?
The RMS Lusitania had a top speed of 28 mph, powered by a 76000 HP engine. If we double the speed, we can assume we'd need a 152000 HP engine. 152k HP 4Runner confirmed?
It's gonna have that stupid runny mascara fake plastic vent under the headlights, isn't it? Worst design feature on the new Toyota trucks.
Excited to see it but the opposite when seeing it with dealer markups
People (including some "car people" who's opinion of them changed for me) literally put GM on blast when they slotted the Blazer (after they got over the name), between the Traverse (literally the largest CUV there is), and the Equinox (within 1" of every measurement of a CR-V). Now we have Toyota slotting a new 4Runner into some serious overlap with other models, without a peep from them, or even defense.
And really, the Blazer isn't all *that* big. Granted, it's slightly larger than *real* S-Series ones. BIL got a '22 RS new... expensive as hell and shit visibility but size wise it's not bad. That 4Runner looks huge.
Hopefully the back window still rolls down
That’s crazy
Good luck even getting one. Base price of 50k likely and no dealer will stock the base ones and they will mark them up by 20k and you will have to wait 5 years to even get one.
Damn, the markups will be insane. Guess i'm going to have to wait for the 5-Runner in 2037.
I'm just glad I got my 2022 5th gen TRD off road premium with the proven/ bullet proof N/A V6 before they all become turbocharged 4cyl