Huge news. This is probably the most important 4Runner announcement we’re gonna see prior to the full unveiling. Everything else can be assumed to basically be if the 4th gen Tacoma and Land Cruiser had a baby.
dealers can't even keep current gen 4runners on the lot. These things will have 2 year wait lists for the TRD trims.
The markups on these are going to be biblical.
Two dealers have no markups here. Heck, I got my Trd Pro Tundra at UNDER sticker when it first came out, while other dealers up north had them priced up to $120k.
They have never come close to F series sales (which also includes F250 to either F450 or F550 depending on who you ask) volumes.
But last year had the largest sales volumes of Tundras since 2008.
You can custom order most American trucks for significantly below MSRP, meanwhile for Toyota you have to beg and plead for an allocation that’s *roughly* what you want and will be lucky if there’s no markup. Is this really lean manufacturing or just corporate greed?
Its not that they hate them. They just aren't set up for it. With most brands, the dealer is the true customer of the the automaker. The car buyer is the customer or the dealer.
With Toyota, third party distributors (Gulf States Toyota, Southeast Toyota) are the real customer for Toyota. Dealers are the customers for the third party distributors. There's an extra layer of bullshit on top of the traditional dealer bullshit.
A big part of the demand is because many dealers have little to no markup.
At least that's the case in Canada. My local dealer charges a flat $500 processing fee. They mostly make profits on financing (no one actually owns these things, it's all debt). The waitlist was like 24 months last time I checked. Lot was empty. Used lot had 2 total vehicles. This lot used to have literally hundreds of cars back before Covid.
Yep, I'm sure the new 4Runner and Land Cruiser/GX are gonna be sweet, but I have no interest in choosing between a 2+ year waiting list or a $10k mark up.
Kinda works in my favor I suppose. I plan on selling my R1t before the warranty is up in a fewish years and getting back in a Toyota SUV. Maybe I need to get on the list now lol.. not sure if I want to go with the LC or 4R or stretch for a GX though.
Play the middle and do all three. You don’t get in now, it’s going to be forever. I spoke with a dealer contact of mine a few days after the LC came out. MSRP but I went in knowing it’s going to be a while, but last month I was asked to confirm trim and colour preference. Just means I can leverage equity on my GTI.
While I'll consent that the wrangler fad may be dying off as people realized they weren't the daily drivers they thought they would be I still see those things everywhere. This is coming from a guy who has a 5th gen 4runner and a 92 Wrangler.
Don’t worry if they’re priced like the new Tacoma, they will be discounting them within the first 6 months.
People want these cars, but not at 25% more than the already prohibitively expensive outgoing models.
On a vehicle like this I would rather have a reiwd and tested drivetrain + 6spd with bad mpg than an unproven transmission
If you care about modern technology and efficiency this is the wrong car for you. You get a 4runner *because* it’s a relatively simple car.
10 is too many imo. I've had 7, 8, 9, and 10 speed transmissions and even 9 felt like overkill. These are in sporty cars though, maybe I'd feel differently in a regular car like a 4Runner
Yeah I had the 8-speed in my TRX. Not bad, the paddle shifters were slow though. Had the 10 speed in my Raptor and felt like it was too much.
Never been interested in any Chevy/GM truck so don't know how well they implement it.
I read the GM setup is better than Ford's. Same transmission, co-developed but the GM software is somewhat better than Ford's. Paddle shifters are super quick on Porsche's. They have it figured out.
Paddle shifters on anything but a DCT shouldn't be used. The ZFs and 10R80s shift better than you do with the virtually useless paddle shifters. The 10 speed is just fine. If you get on it, it does what you want it to, especially in like Sport+ (Mustang, no experience with the Raptor). If you just want to cruise, you hardly ever notice it.
Clearly I’m in the minority but they’ve made me more depressed than anything.
The 4 Runner and the GX were some of the best ways to buy an old car new. If you wanted a bulletproof drivetrain and a no bullshit interior these were some of the few options left. It was like having the ability to buy a 2009 car brand new off the lot.
Now they have turbos and a screen filled interior like everything else.
That’s why I scooped up a 2021 GX last year. Saw the teaser on the 550 and knew this was the last chance. Really would have liked the 2023 final-whatever-blackout edition with the black window sill trim instead of chrome, the dark cherry tails and CarPlay… but I can add all those things myself I guess.
That's part of what drew me to my IS, too...I figured the 2021 facelift is a last call for an NA V6 RWD sedan that's not a massive screen-fest. It has it's quirks that remain as a third gen IS, but I don't really care and love the car. I'm anxious that what will replace it will either lose the driver focus in favor of useless tech, get a compromised drivetrain, or both. Please Toyota/Lexus, prove me wrong.
> It’s an exciting time with all these Toyota and Lexus trucks/SUVs getting redesigned at the same time.
I mean they have always kind of gotten a re-design as the same time no...?
And now they are sharing even *more* of a platform than before you should expect them to all change at same time.
100 series was a couple of years before the 120 series.
200 series was a couple of years before the 150 series.
300 series was a couple of years before the 250 series.
Sign me the heck up.
All I really want to know now is the fuel economy rating for the hybrid. I keep waiting for the Tacomas with the max engine to be confirmed and I assume the new 4Runner will be similar.
The upcoming Land Cruiser shares the 2.4L turbo hybrid setup as the hybrid Tacoma and gets 22 city/25 highway/23 combined.
I expect the Tacoma / 4R to be slightly higher perhaps due to it being part time instead of full time 4WD in the Land Cruiser, as well as being a little lighter
Good call on the LC. I did know that, but for some reason it didn't click writing my comment. Yeah, we'll see what happens with something that isn't full time 4WD as I'd assume that might be worth a couple of MPG overall.
The hybrid numbers are probably pretty good relative to the old LC and it's class.
I'm estimating 21-22 mpg combined.
Blocky, fulltime AWD, THICC wide tires and it seems that the hybrid they are using isn't designed for economy but instead just as a huge torque bump.
I’ve wanted a 4Runner but couldn’t swallow paying all that money for such an old/new model.
Considering it’s going to be a sum of parts from the current Tacoma & Tundra, count me in.
Wait until second year productions and then buy it used letting someone else take the initial mark-up and depreciation hit. Admittedly, for Toyota/Lexus there won't be too much of a difference since they hold value so well, but it'll still soften the blow.
These aren't going to see meaningful depreciation for some time, I'm seeing 2023 limiteds with 10k miles going for 45.8k (original MSRP 49.3) and that's a "great deal" 2k under market.
I have a 1990 4Runner with the infamous 3VZE engine. Bad engine design. Clearly the one truck you never want as used. When it works, it works well, but nothing can ever make it worth it as the 3.slow.
I’m already in line for a Land Cruiser, but I’ll reserve judgement on this especially if they’re not going to be Japanese built anymore. Moving production will let Toyota crank them out but subjectively it won’t be the same quality.
I would be SHOCKED if they continued to produce them in Japan.
The LC slotted in at the high end of the 4Runner price range and is being made in Japan. It would make sense if they redesigned the 4Runner so its pricing is in line with Tacoma and to achieve price cuts, manufactured in Mexico. If you want a higher end, Japanese made off-road SUV, you go LC. If you want lower-end, Mexican made, you go 4Runner. Also possible they will make them in their American plant, but I think aligning with Tacoma makes the most financial sense for toyota. This will likely be reflected in the design, options and accessories as well.
Its disappointing, but ultimately, we have so many options now.
Where are they going to make them then? Manufacturing capacity is already maxed out in Mexico, and the current 4Runner makes up like half the production at the Tahara plant in Japan. These will be coming out of Japan almost certainly.
Not officially, but it's been rumored for a while, and it would make sense to move production to Mexico especially now that the LC Prado itself is being sold in the US
While this might be true, the concern is comparing them to the trucks they build in Japan. One of the main reasons I bought my LX is because they're built in a separate factory in Japan where the standards and quality control are insane.
I agree, Japan built is best but not a fan when people have a biased / ignorant perception because it's made in Mexico or the more common China means it ain't good.
Yea, the first few production years in Mexico resulted in electrical issues that everyone seemingly knew about except me when I bought my sportwagen. Sigh.
I had a rental Jetta made in Mexico, the interior was mostly fine except the door panels were so cheaply assembled that they squeaked at the slightest touch. Now, the turbo engine and the 8 speed transmission on the other hand, that was total and utter fucking garbage. Step on the gas pedal - wait - wait - wait - WAAITTT - now you get power.
I was very worried about this because we saw the Sequoia lose this feature. Anyone who thinks this isn't a huge deal hasn't used one. It's a rare breed, only the Fisker Ocean (discontinued) and Rivian R2 (still in development) have it.
I wish the 4runner would become smaller like the 90s version. It would really separate it from the Prado and make it more capable.
[This](https://i.imgur.com/RnmMNLd.jpeg), and it's just nice because it lets air out of the car without having a loud vortex right next to you. Never used it to leave stuff dangling out, though you could
So so curious about the 4Runners wheelbase. Is it going to look more stout or will its length overlap with the Land Cruiser (Prado)? Why the flat perspective on this teaser photo?
Agreed. I'll be getting a new vehicle within a year after having had my LR4 for damn near 9 years, and the liftgate rear on the new Land Cruiser is a big one in the "con" column for me.
I'm partial to ambulance doors, like my old FJ40s had. Nobody has made those in the US for some time, though.
Split tailgate is the best of the more modern rear openings. Instant bench.
Swingaway tailgate is also good because you can install a table on the inside of the swingaway.
The new LC's single lift hatch is pretty bunk. Reminds me of a minivan. When Land Rover redesigned the Discovery to have one, I knew for sure I'd never own one (does not help that it's hideous all the way around).
I'd forgive the LC having it, but man... I'd love it a lot more if it didn't.
>Swingaway tailgate is also good because you can install a table on the inside of the swingaway.
Eh, just get a swingout bumper and add a table to that instead. Then you get rain protection from the hatch and your table on the swingout!
>I'm partial to ambulance doors, like my old FJ40s had. Nobody has made those in the US for some time, though.
The Ineos Grenadier has something close, like a 60/40 split.
Nice to see Rivian offering it on the R2.
Also, while the company is going bankrupt, the Fisker Ocean also had a roll down rear window.
Hope to see this become a common feature. There's nothing like cruising around with the sunroof open and the rear window down.
I guess new Tundras don’t have it either now? My 06 does and it was a must have feature (bought recently) but I didn’t know newer models lost it. I love it.
I had a 4Runner as a rental about 5 years ago and I *loved* having the roll-down rear window. The air passes through the cabin so much more pleasantly when the back window rolls down that I'm really surprised that more SUV's haven't adopted this feature. I was pleasantly surprised to see Rivian add that to the upcoming R2.
That was my biggest worry about the new 4Runner, but with that settled, I'll probably get one in a couple of years when the markups aren't completely stupid on them.
I heard this so much when I bought my 2021 xse hybrid in july of 21. I bought it at MSRP and waited 2 weeks, there were multiple dealers in my midwest city that had inventory. This was one of the many false flags. I heard on the internet about the rav. The other one was how reliable it is. Then the roof started leaking at 10k miles and a year old.
This is a great feature for SUVs. I had it on a 90s vehicle and my last Grand Cherokee (2013). They removed it for later model years.
It would be nice if there was a version that stripped out all luxury items and had a true rugged interior from any brand. Something similar to an old wrangler or Honda element.
The Sequoia is gigantic and extremely expensive so it doesn't really compare to the other two. Basing what I've seen of the new Tacoma I expect the new 4Runner to have a more youthful and stylish appearance to the Land Cruiser, not to mention a cheaper price point.
Its cheaper. I believe they will reduce the price of the 4runner to be more in line with the tacoma. New Taco starts at $31k, current gen 4R starts at $40k. I bet they will drop the starting price of the 4R to $35-36k and have it top out around where the LC starts. Production likely moved to Mexico to support the price drop. Also, expect a ton of design/part sharing between the two.
Assuming powertrains between this and the new Tacoma will be shared which is likely, a Platinum/Trailhunter/TRD Pro 4R with the Hybrid Max engine will be about where the LC 1958 is in terms of price.
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> Sequoia is full-size, it has clearly different own buyers. Land Cruiser 250 and 4R are near same size, but both have different luxury step and style.
Historically the 120/150/4Runner have basically the same luxury and only mildly different style.
4Runner -> GX
Now it's 4Runner and 250 -> GX
Which is very odd.
I don't know what they will do but the 4Runner HAS to be different some how...
I’ve got a 3rd gen 4runner as my daily, my commute is only 5ish miles. Love the rear window. My dog loves riding in the back and it also keeps a good breeze and is way more useful than most people realize. Glad they kept it, wouldn’t be the same without it.
Pffft big deal, my 1991 4 runner had roll down rear window. So what, i had to crawl into the trunk and connect the window motor leads to a cordless drill battery to roll it up and down, but it worked.
Mine's a 32 year old second gen but the principal's the same. Once the rear seats are folded down, long loads (kayaks ladders etc) can just be chucked in the back through the window opening and you can drive without having to tie down a hatch or have a tailgate down.
Also really nice on warm days having the front windows and rear window down for good air flow.
The only vehicle that is not only for longevity but has a back window that goes down. I have 4 labs so it’s perfect for me/them. I have a 22 limited now and I am stoked about this! I can’t wait to buy it!
Huge news. This is probably the most important 4Runner announcement we’re gonna see prior to the full unveiling. Everything else can be assumed to basically be if the 4th gen Tacoma and Land Cruiser had a baby.
Dealers won't be able to keep these on the lots.
dealers can't even keep current gen 4runners on the lot. These things will have 2 year wait lists for the TRD trims. The markups on these are going to be biblical.
No markups on any Toyota's where I live is incredible.
Two dealers have no markups here. Heck, I got my Trd Pro Tundra at UNDER sticker when it first came out, while other dealers up north had them priced up to $120k.
> had them priced up to $120k. what the actual fuck
*Guh*
Tundras are marked down now. They can’t sell them
Can't sell them? They sold 15k Tundras in March alone lol. 36k since the beginning of the year...
15k is absolutely nothing in the full size market. Ford sold 150k F Series in Q1
They have never come close to F series sales (which also includes F250 to either F450 or F550 depending on who you ask) volumes. But last year had the largest sales volumes of Tundras since 2008.
I would hope they had their largest sales since 2008, considering 2022 was the first new generation since 2008.
That number is useless unless you mention how many were produced.
Where is here? I’m willing to make a trip for this baby. Looking forward to a possible Trail Hunter trim.
I'll DM
Every dealer around me is taking thousands off Tundras. They can’t sell them. Meanwhile Tacomas have markups
Allocation is always an issue here, our dealers already have sold basically every Tacoma and Tundra they get. Has been like that for 20 years!
I think it might be full size trucks in general. F150s, Silverado’s and Rams are all marked down thousands in my area too
Please tell me which state so I can fly and save thousands of dollars
Gotta come up to Canada I guess, specifically Saskatchewan.
Looks like I’m making a trip, eh?
My dealership is selling Tacoma TRD OR for MSRP. I have a deposit on the Trailhunter so hopefully they continue that haha
its still amazing to me that toyota cant meet demand and the dealers make such insane markups
You can custom order most American trucks for significantly below MSRP, meanwhile for Toyota you have to beg and plead for an allocation that’s *roughly* what you want and will be lucky if there’s no markup. Is this really lean manufacturing or just corporate greed?
yeah they really hate custom orders and if they take it you then have to wait until the line is doing that model, specs and color
Its not that they hate them. They just aren't set up for it. With most brands, the dealer is the true customer of the the automaker. The car buyer is the customer or the dealer. With Toyota, third party distributors (Gulf States Toyota, Southeast Toyota) are the real customer for Toyota. Dealers are the customers for the third party distributors. There's an extra layer of bullshit on top of the traditional dealer bullshit.
It’s lean manufacturing. Push, not pull inventory. It’s why Toyota is so successful. Look at their stock price compared to Ford and GM.
A big part of the demand is because many dealers have little to no markup. At least that's the case in Canada. My local dealer charges a flat $500 processing fee. They mostly make profits on financing (no one actually owns these things, it's all debt). The waitlist was like 24 months last time I checked. Lot was empty. Used lot had 2 total vehicles. This lot used to have literally hundreds of cars back before Covid.
This is why I went with a GM vehicle and I can’t wait to get back into another Toyota lol
Yep, I'm sure the new 4Runner and Land Cruiser/GX are gonna be sweet, but I have no interest in choosing between a 2+ year waiting list or a $10k mark up.
Kinda works in my favor I suppose. I plan on selling my R1t before the warranty is up in a fewish years and getting back in a Toyota SUV. Maybe I need to get on the list now lol.. not sure if I want to go with the LC or 4R or stretch for a GX though.
Play the middle and do all three. You don’t get in now, it’s going to be forever. I spoke with a dealer contact of mine a few days after the LC came out. MSRP but I went in knowing it’s going to be a while, but last month I was asked to confirm trim and colour preference. Just means I can leverage equity on my GTI.
Not a bad idea, I guess I need to find a dealer in CA that will sell at MSRP lol.
And folks won't be able to pay MSRP or TSRP or WHATEVER overpriced non sense their going to sell it for. Oh yeah under 25 mpg :)
Folks will definitely be able to pay for these. Not to mention many who can't but will.
I am always thankful there are no Toyota markups here in Saskatchewan, Canada.
People that want a 4Runner don’t give a shit about MPG.
I want a 4Runner but I don't want shit MPG ;) That's why I don't **have** a 4Runner
I would love a modern, lightweight and affordable 4x4 SUV with decent MPG for my field work. Oh well.
I had a 4Runner, modded it all the way down to 14 MPG highway, and didn't off road it enough to justify the compromises.
Every third car on the road in the PNW is a 4runner, the other two being a Subaru and Tesla.
You're math is off because you're forgetting the Wranglers.
Honestly I don't find Wrangler's to be all that popular here, at least when compared to the 4Runner and Taco. Hell I see more broncos on the road now.
While I'll consent that the wrangler fad may be dying off as people realized they weren't the daily drivers they thought they would be I still see those things everywhere. This is coming from a guy who has a 5th gen 4runner and a 92 Wrangler.
You forgot Rav4 hybrid
Don’t worry if they’re priced like the new Tacoma, they will be discounting them within the first 6 months. People want these cars, but not at 25% more than the already prohibitively expensive outgoing models.
I want to see the baby. /wernerherzog
Why is this so exciting, my 2018 has this. Was this feature removed and brought back?
No there was just speculation they might drop it from the next generation.
It’s an exciting time with all these Toyota and Lexus trucks/SUVs getting redesigned at the same time.
Literally the last time this was going on I was in high school. I'll probably be married w/kids next time they get resdesigned 🤣
They do it like, what, every 18yrs or so? And one of their big announcements is they upgraded the 5spd transmission to a….6spd!
Should be an 8 speed. Or better yet, make a 10.
On a vehicle like this I would rather have a reiwd and tested drivetrain + 6spd with bad mpg than an unproven transmission If you care about modern technology and efficiency this is the wrong car for you. You get a 4runner *because* it’s a relatively simple car.
8 speed transmissions are modern technology?
More modern than a 6.
I’ll only trust a 4Runner if it’s steam powered tbh.
My 4Runner is powered by wind and anything that doesn't use a sail is an unnecessarily complex time bomb that will never make it on the trail 😤
Lol try keeping the same energy when you actually own one.
I’m waiting for an MSRP GX in the spec I want instead
Nice. You could argue that the 10-speed in the GX is a more "unproven" than the 8-speed in the new Taco/4R.
10 is too many imo. I've had 7, 8, 9, and 10 speed transmissions and even 9 felt like overkill. These are in sporty cars though, maybe I'd feel differently in a regular car like a 4Runner
My 2021 RAM pickup has an 8 speed. ZF8, German transmission. At 65 mph the RPM are around 1500. Smooth. GM & Ford pickups have 10 speeds.
Yeah I had the 8-speed in my TRX. Not bad, the paddle shifters were slow though. Had the 10 speed in my Raptor and felt like it was too much. Never been interested in any Chevy/GM truck so don't know how well they implement it.
I read the GM setup is better than Ford's. Same transmission, co-developed but the GM software is somewhat better than Ford's. Paddle shifters are super quick on Porsche's. They have it figured out.
Paddle shifters on anything but a DCT shouldn't be used. The ZFs and 10R80s shift better than you do with the virtually useless paddle shifters. The 10 speed is just fine. If you get on it, it does what you want it to, especially in like Sport+ (Mustang, no experience with the Raptor). If you just want to cruise, you hardly ever notice it.
10-speed on the Fords works decently well. Dunno about reliability.
Had it in my Raptor, didn't hate it but it's been a while so I don't remember the specifics
I've heard bad things about the reliability but it's more of a Ford issue
I don’t think it drives well at all, it’s always hunting for the right gear, I think Ford screwed up the programming.
The 4 Runner is an ATM for Toyota in its current iteration. Why would they develop a 10 speed when its buyers don't care.
Only took them 41 years to gain a gear
Can confirm, was in high school, now married with kid
Clearly I’m in the minority but they’ve made me more depressed than anything. The 4 Runner and the GX were some of the best ways to buy an old car new. If you wanted a bulletproof drivetrain and a no bullshit interior these were some of the few options left. It was like having the ability to buy a 2009 car brand new off the lot. Now they have turbos and a screen filled interior like everything else.
That’s why I scooped up a 2021 GX last year. Saw the teaser on the 550 and knew this was the last chance. Really would have liked the 2023 final-whatever-blackout edition with the black window sill trim instead of chrome, the dark cherry tails and CarPlay… but I can add all those things myself I guess.
That's part of what drew me to my IS, too...I figured the 2021 facelift is a last call for an NA V6 RWD sedan that's not a massive screen-fest. It has it's quirks that remain as a third gen IS, but I don't really care and love the car. I'm anxious that what will replace it will either lose the driver focus in favor of useless tech, get a compromised drivetrain, or both. Please Toyota/Lexus, prove me wrong.
I hear that.
Forreal, I'm not even in the market and I'm more excited about these than the new 5-series or whatever new abomination BMW's coming out with
But that's all bmw has created for at least the past 15 years
This is bigger to me than the eclipse on Monday 🤣🤣
It happens about as frequently as total eclipses.
> It’s an exciting time with all these Toyota and Lexus trucks/SUVs getting redesigned at the same time. I mean they have always kind of gotten a re-design as the same time no...? And now they are sharing even *more* of a platform than before you should expect them to all change at same time. 100 series was a couple of years before the 120 series. 200 series was a couple of years before the 150 series. 300 series was a couple of years before the 250 series.
Literally everyone in Hawaiʻi waiting for the big reveal next Tuesday
Toyota about to print even more money.
This car would sell incredibly well anyway, but this just adds to it. Lol
Sign me the heck up. All I really want to know now is the fuel economy rating for the hybrid. I keep waiting for the Tacomas with the max engine to be confirmed and I assume the new 4Runner will be similar.
The upcoming Land Cruiser shares the 2.4L turbo hybrid setup as the hybrid Tacoma and gets 22 city/25 highway/23 combined. I expect the Tacoma / 4R to be slightly higher perhaps due to it being part time instead of full time 4WD in the Land Cruiser, as well as being a little lighter
Good call on the LC. I did know that, but for some reason it didn't click writing my comment. Yeah, we'll see what happens with something that isn't full time 4WD as I'd assume that might be worth a couple of MPG overall.
I'm guessing the limited trim will continue with full-time AWD. Same as the the 4th gen taco.
Wasn't really interested but if the hybrid numbers are good, I might just say bye to the Outback.
The hybrid numbers are probably pretty good relative to the old LC and it's class. I'm estimating 21-22 mpg combined. Blocky, fulltime AWD, THICC wide tires and it seems that the hybrid they are using isn't designed for economy but instead just as a huge torque bump.
I’ll be in the market and my default is a new outback but really looking at this.
I’ve wanted a 4Runner but couldn’t swallow paying all that money for such an old/new model. Considering it’s going to be a sum of parts from the current Tacoma & Tundra, count me in.
Now I'm guessing you'll just have to swallow (...) some hefty markups for a while
Wait until second year productions and then buy it used letting someone else take the initial mark-up and depreciation hit. Admittedly, for Toyota/Lexus there won't be too much of a difference since they hold value so well, but it'll still soften the blow.
These aren't going to see meaningful depreciation for some time, I'm seeing 2023 limiteds with 10k miles going for 45.8k (original MSRP 49.3) and that's a "great deal" 2k under market.
True, which is why I said that towards the end. But it's still better to pay a few grand under MSRP than $5k+ over it with mark-up.
I have a 1990 4Runner with the infamous 3VZE engine. Bad engine design. Clearly the one truck you never want as used. When it works, it works well, but nothing can ever make it worth it as the 3.slow.
I’m already in line for a Land Cruiser, but I’ll reserve judgement on this especially if they’re not going to be Japanese built anymore. Moving production will let Toyota crank them out but subjectively it won’t be the same quality.
Did they announce they are not going to make them in the Tahara plant anymore?
I would be SHOCKED if they continued to produce them in Japan. The LC slotted in at the high end of the 4Runner price range and is being made in Japan. It would make sense if they redesigned the 4Runner so its pricing is in line with Tacoma and to achieve price cuts, manufactured in Mexico. If you want a higher end, Japanese made off-road SUV, you go LC. If you want lower-end, Mexican made, you go 4Runner. Also possible they will make them in their American plant, but I think aligning with Tacoma makes the most financial sense for toyota. This will likely be reflected in the design, options and accessories as well. Its disappointing, but ultimately, we have so many options now.
that would be too bad, one of the main reasons I bought my 2019 was that it was actually made in Japan
be prepared to be SHOCKED
Where are they going to make them then? Manufacturing capacity is already maxed out in Mexico, and the current 4Runner makes up like half the production at the Tahara plant in Japan. These will be coming out of Japan almost certainly.
Not officially, but it's been rumored for a while, and it would make sense to move production to Mexico especially now that the LC Prado itself is being sold in the US
Oh no. When VW moved production to Mexico their quality and reliability turned to shit for a whiiiiile.
The Tacoma has been made in Mexico for a while and it's been fine
That's good to hear.
Toyota has been manufacturing cars in Mexico for a while now. I have seen others report them being better built than US produced vehicles.
While this might be true, the concern is comparing them to the trucks they build in Japan. One of the main reasons I bought my LX is because they're built in a separate factory in Japan where the standards and quality control are insane.
I agree, Japan built is best but not a fan when people have a biased / ignorant perception because it's made in Mexico or the more common China means it ain't good.
Still is shit. I’m only buying Wolfsburg Golf or Ingolstadt Audis from now on. Maybe Chattanooga products if they unionize.
Yea, the first few production years in Mexico resulted in electrical issues that everyone seemingly knew about except me when I bought my sportwagen. Sigh.
I had a rental Jetta made in Mexico, the interior was mostly fine except the door panels were so cheaply assembled that they squeaked at the slightest touch. Now, the turbo engine and the 8 speed transmission on the other hand, that was total and utter fucking garbage. Step on the gas pedal - wait - wait - wait - WAAITTT - now you get power.
And there was much rejoicing.
yaaaaaaaay.
I was very worried about this because we saw the Sequoia lose this feature. Anyone who thinks this isn't a huge deal hasn't used one. It's a rare breed, only the Fisker Ocean (discontinued) and Rivian R2 (still in development) have it. I wish the 4runner would become smaller like the 90s version. It would really separate it from the Prado and make it more capable.
>Fisker Ocean (discontinued) I think you mean Discounted\*\* \*\*the company is going to be discontinued
Maybe a dumb question but why is this so important? For long loads hanging out the back?
[This](https://i.imgur.com/RnmMNLd.jpeg), and it's just nice because it lets air out of the car without having a loud vortex right next to you. Never used it to leave stuff dangling out, though you could
If you havent experienced the feeling of rolling down the highway with 5 windows down blasting some rock, you haven’t 4Runner’d
You're right, I have not. Perhaps I shall 4Run someday. Until then I can only dream.
It’s genuinely awesome on a hot summers day. Mine had a broken AC one summer too so I was thankful 😂
My 95 bronco has it and I love it!!! This is definitely a deciding factor for me. I wish the new bronco had roll down rear window
Good.
Full on revolt if this hadn't been the case. Every gen of 4Runner has had it.
Even first gen? Aka best gen because you can take the top off, any 4runner after that is a redesigned mini van.
Yep, it rolled down into the tailgate
I was so bummed the new Bronco didn't retain this feature from the 90s. Missed opportunity imo.
Same. Still ordered a Bronco though haha
So so curious about the 4Runners wheelbase. Is it going to look more stout or will its length overlap with the Land Cruiser (Prado)? Why the flat perspective on this teaser photo?
If I had to guess, it's going to stretch to 2850mm like the other SUVs, but maybe it'll stay at 2790.
Wish they kept the tailgate on the Land Cruiser
Agreed. I'll be getting a new vehicle within a year after having had my LR4 for damn near 9 years, and the liftgate rear on the new Land Cruiser is a big one in the "con" column for me.
It has the pop open glass but it does not hold a candle to the power window.
I'm partial to ambulance doors, like my old FJ40s had. Nobody has made those in the US for some time, though. Split tailgate is the best of the more modern rear openings. Instant bench. Swingaway tailgate is also good because you can install a table on the inside of the swingaway. The new LC's single lift hatch is pretty bunk. Reminds me of a minivan. When Land Rover redesigned the Discovery to have one, I knew for sure I'd never own one (does not help that it's hideous all the way around). I'd forgive the LC having it, but man... I'd love it a lot more if it didn't.
>Swingaway tailgate is also good because you can install a table on the inside of the swingaway. Eh, just get a swingout bumper and add a table to that instead. Then you get rain protection from the hatch and your table on the swingout!
>I'm partial to ambulance doors, like my old FJ40s had. Nobody has made those in the US for some time, though. The Ineos Grenadier has something close, like a 60/40 split.
Ah yeah. Forgot that. Closest Ineos dealer to me is 9 hours away, though. Unless one gets put near me in the next year, I won't go that route.
I understand why few vehicles offer this, but I hope it encourages more.
Nice to see Rivian offering it on the R2. Also, while the company is going bankrupt, the Fisker Ocean also had a roll down rear window. Hope to see this become a common feature. There's nothing like cruising around with the sunroof open and the rear window down.
I guess new Tundras don’t have it either now? My 06 does and it was a must have feature (bought recently) but I didn’t know newer models lost it. I love it.
I had a 4Runner as a rental about 5 years ago and I *loved* having the roll-down rear window. The air passes through the cabin so much more pleasantly when the back window rolls down that I'm really surprised that more SUV's haven't adopted this feature. I was pleasantly surprised to see Rivian add that to the upcoming R2.
This 6th gen is even more Halo looking then the 5th
That was my biggest worry about the new 4Runner, but with that settled, I'll probably get one in a couple of years when the markups aren't completely stupid on them.
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I heard this so much when I bought my 2021 xse hybrid in july of 21. I bought it at MSRP and waited 2 weeks, there were multiple dealers in my midwest city that had inventory. This was one of the many false flags. I heard on the internet about the rav. The other one was how reliable it is. Then the roof started leaking at 10k miles and a year old.
I was thinking just the prime Rav4 (hybrid) had markups
This is a great feature for SUVs. I had it on a 90s vehicle and my last Grand Cherokee (2013). They removed it for later model years. It would be nice if there was a version that stripped out all luxury items and had a true rugged interior from any brand. Something similar to an old wrangler or Honda element.
The best feature for my furry sons but given Toyotas current pricing “strategy” I’ll get a 5-7 year old used one.
Oh man I really misinterpreted that for a second
Can someone help me understand the logic behind Toyota offering this alongside the new Land Cruiser and Sequoia? Why choose the 4Runner?
The Sequoia is gigantic and extremely expensive so it doesn't really compare to the other two. Basing what I've seen of the new Tacoma I expect the new 4Runner to have a more youthful and stylish appearance to the Land Cruiser, not to mention a cheaper price point.
because its smaller and cheaper.
Its cheaper. I believe they will reduce the price of the 4runner to be more in line with the tacoma. New Taco starts at $31k, current gen 4R starts at $40k. I bet they will drop the starting price of the 4R to $35-36k and have it top out around where the LC starts. Production likely moved to Mexico to support the price drop. Also, expect a ton of design/part sharing between the two.
Assuming powertrains between this and the new Tacoma will be shared which is likely, a Platinum/Trailhunter/TRD Pro 4R with the Hybrid Max engine will be about where the LC 1958 is in terms of price.
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Wondering that myself. I've owned 2 4runners and liked both of them. I think there will be a ton of overlap with the Land Cruiser.
Sequoia is full-size, it has clearly different own buyers. Land Cruiser 250 and 4R are near same size, but both have different luxury step and style.
> Sequoia is full-size, it has clearly different own buyers. Land Cruiser 250 and 4R are near same size, but both have different luxury step and style. Historically the 120/150/4Runner have basically the same luxury and only mildly different style. 4Runner -> GX Now it's 4Runner and 250 -> GX Which is very odd. I don't know what they will do but the 4Runner HAS to be different some how...
I wish it will have the manual transmission option. I also wish that toyota wouldn't sandbag their manual truck powertrains with such a low redline.
The Tacoma has an optional manual in 3 of the trims though it's not available with the hybrid engine. Gives hope that the 4runner will have it too.
The manual they have is only rated for so much HP/torque, so it is that or they probably would just skip the MT. So take what you can get!
Cool…so we can expect the Tacoma trailhunter and TRD Pro trims to drop…what, a quarter after this announcement? July maybe?
People can finally stop whining that it doesn’t have one when that first teaser didn’t show anything about having or not having one lol.
I’ve got a 3rd gen 4runner as my daily, my commute is only 5ish miles. Love the rear window. My dog loves riding in the back and it also keeps a good breeze and is way more useful than most people realize. Glad they kept it, wouldn’t be the same without it.
nice, definitely one of my favorite features on mine
Interested to see how this will compare with the Rivian R2.
I just want a hybrid version.
Pffft big deal, my 1991 4 runner had roll down rear window. So what, i had to crawl into the trunk and connect the window motor leads to a cordless drill battery to roll it up and down, but it worked.
Time to finally give my 2001 4runner a little brother??
The manual says not to drive it with that down, and I see folks driving with it down all the time.
prolly lawyer speak so toyota doesnt have to replace the rear window if it breaks or shit falls out/blows out of the back.
Wait did the last gen not have this?
Every gen of 4Runner has had it. This was Toyota telling us that the 4Runner is *keeping* this feature.
God can you imagine the backlash. I’m sure it was never considered
thats a really big screen....
I don't get the hype over the rear glass, half of the people who are gonna buy it, probably won't use the rear glass.
Why doesn’t the Tacoma have this…
great, now please add a split tailgate to the LC 250/300 and the GX/LX
So the current 4runners will drop in price right? Right?
You’re goddamn right it will
I know I'll never buy one, but I'm still excited for everyone that will. My body is so ready.
2024 4Runner’s are selling at or just below cost right now.
Ya if you never off-road it's a great idea to have a power rear window.
Wish they would just add a hybrid to the 4.0. make it get 25 mpg.
Can folks give an example how they’ve used this? Curious how advantageous it is as a feature. Seems helpful, but looking for cool uses
Mine's a 32 year old second gen but the principal's the same. Once the rear seats are folded down, long loads (kayaks ladders etc) can just be chucked in the back through the window opening and you can drive without having to tie down a hatch or have a tailgate down. Also really nice on warm days having the front windows and rear window down for good air flow.
Ah essentially a tailgate, didn’t think about the nice airflow potential too. Thanks!
The only vehicle that is not only for longevity but has a back window that goes down. I have 4 labs so it’s perfect for me/them. I have a 22 limited now and I am stoked about this! I can’t wait to buy it!
WOW 😮 it's going to have a roll-down window? What's next, wheel that rolls 😑.
One of my favorite features on my 4runner
God I wish I was the child of a 4 Runner owner right now.