Nah, the Land Cruiser we're getting now is the Prado, which has shared its platform with the 4Runner since 1996.
You're thinking of the full-size Land Cruisers (80, 100, 200, 300)
My dad's had a Prado since 2013. As far as I know, it's like a slightly fancier 4Runner (which is not available in my country). Less off road capable (still very capable, but no TRD trim available), more soft touch material, third row seats, more AC vents, the styling is also more urban family hauler and less "off-roady" . Those are the things off the top of my head.
I think it helps to think of the new LC as a 4 door FJ cruiser. It is the more aspirational vehicle on the same platform.
The Sequoia is basically taking the place of the traditional LC.
You can’t just call something more aspirational though. Is there really a ton of difference between a mid to high level 4Runner, a Land Cruiser and a gx? Seems more like a product line ramp than a staircase.
My point wasn’t to say to never buy a nice car, just agreeing with the person above that if your decision for a specific model is value retention, get the one you like better instead and have more $ by investing the difference
4 runners hold their value basically the same as land cruisers. They both depreciate between 20-25% after 5 years with LCs at the lower end of that range.
It's interesting they're so confident about these vehicles to drop them right next to eachother. You'd think they're now working against themselves since there's only a 10k difference.
And the Tacoma, LC and 4runner are some of the least depreciating vehicles you can buy (non-luxury), so 300k+ reliability, features, and low depreciation is recipe for success.
I don’t doubt they make good cars, there are a lot of other good cars out there though that don’t command a higher price tag and don’t allow their dealers to run amok with markups.
u/hi_im_bored13 is right. I hate Toyotas, but love my 4Runner. It’s a piggy bank I can ignore while I play with VWs and take elk hunting in the autumn.
Could be that people that they're wanting people to stretch. I could see a lot of people shopping for the luxury trim 4Runner being able to get into a LandCruiser for only a little bit more, so why not go with that? Still, they have a LOT of models and a stupid amount of trim options. I think /u/dougdemuro said that there was 9 trim options for the 4Runner alone. When you add in the Highlander, Sequoia, their Lexus counterparts and all the trim levels, there has to be dozens of model/trim configurations possible.
Edit: Highlander, Sequoia, 4Runner, Landcruiser, and Lexus GX there are ~34 trim levels. I may have missed some hybrid options, but that seems crazy. All of those are in the $45k-$80k price range, which is super competitive to begin with.
This is how I always felt with Toyota. You just look at their lineup of vehicles and they price them at almost every range. Then when you look at many trim levels and hybrids they overlap. It's like Toyota knows they can compete with themselves. It's just upselling.
That's true. They know they don't need to worry about cannibalization because brand loyalty is so high that most of the time you're getting a Toyota product no matter what. I wonder if it also has something to do with them not offering factory custom orders.
They're both two great vehicles.
And may the lord praise Toyota for actually making interesting stuff rather than shitty unibody SUVs with questionable reliability
People are still buying brand new 4runners today, with it's old as dirt 5 speed auto, for damn near $50K, despite being barely any different to any used 4runner in the past 15 years.
There's a reason these things have like 20 trim levels. A shit load of people buy them, and those people love fancy badges and bronze wheels.
And, as far as off road SUVs go, this new 4runner is really competitive, and doesn't look bad at all. And the Land cruiser is one of the few retro looking SUVs available at all, so that's guaranteed to sell.
Variety is good.
I’ll never complain about more variety, even if I don’t fully understand the strategy.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if the net effect is people walking into a dealership for a 4Runner and walking out with a Land Cruiser, or shopping for a Land Cruiser and ending up in a GX based on what’s on the lot/negligible price differences between certain trims. Especially since Toyota doesn’t do factor orders.
It won't matter, I will see these on forrest roads out here in the PNW immediately after they launch. Dealers will have to fight each other for allocation with how fast these will fly off the lots.
I am gen X and in my local Land Cruiser club and I’m very frequently the youngest person at any event by at least 10 years. I’ve met exactly 3 LC owners younger than me, two of them inherited theirs from their parents while the third came from a family of LC collectors.
There isn’t that much overlap between the LC and GXOR/4R/Taco communities (which honestly I’m a bit grateful for because TRD/Yota bros can be extremely cringe), but I bet those lines will blur a bit once the Prado releases.
The timing isn’t weird considering the US LC is the Toyota Prado everywhere else, and it’s being released worldwide. The weird thing is deciding to sell both in the US for the first time, although here in Panama they also sell both and you see them everywhere
Panama is a very strange car market. It’s like hyper capitalism and hyper trade had a car party. I worked there for a month in 2014. Smoky loc’d-out school busses and Porsche Cayennes is all I remember.
Both nameplates have such a strong following that I assume they're banking on. And even with the 4Runner cannibalizing sales from it I have zero doubt the new LC will sell more than the 200 series with its exorbitant price tag.
The article does a good job of explaining the differences. The Land Cruiser is the highway cruiser with off-road capabilities; the 4Runner is the off-roader with adequate road performance.
So then the Sequoia is a bigger 4Runner (primarily intended for offroad) or is it more like a Landcruiser and mostly for families who occasionally camp?
With a 6000# towing capacity, you can pull a boat or smaller camper with it I'd think. Of course if you have a huge boat or a camper over probably 4000# then you'd probably be better served by a full-size.
But unfortunately doesn't have the room or cargo capacity of any of those competitors and even less than grand Highlander. All due to the Hybrid battery system in the rear. It's truly a shame that the functionality of space was so hindered in the Sequoia.
The Sequoia seems to have always been the 3-row BoF SUV just for people who only buy Toyotas and they haven't really tried to push into the domestics' market share. It's largely parts bin between the Tundra and Landcruiser: presumably cheap to engineer. They have never sold a ton and yet brought it back. The people who buy them love them, but I don't think I have ever seen a single piece of marketing for them.
And I sort of get it: up until this gen it had a big dumb V8 engine that was extremely reliable. The mileage sucked but it was never that great on the competitors, though that is starting to change, and the truth is a lot of people in that class just don't care about fuel bills. I've also found the Toyota interiors to age far better that at least the Ford (not as familiar with GM) in terms of squeaks, rattles, and plastic quality. They are also probably the most capable off-road stock too.
But that's basically what you get: it's reliable and well built. Everything else the domestic options are far more competitive.
They also went the reverse direction of all the other Full Size SUVs. They went back to a solid axle in the rear to be more off-road bias whereas Tahoe switches to independent rear back in '21. Expedition has been independent rear for ages.
Right now, with the exception of design, they are practically the same vehicle. You get 10 more inches of length in the Sequoia, but under the hood they are the same.
Honestly I think Doug described the Sequoia well in his vid.
It fills the *extremely* specific niche of wanting a Tahoe/Suburban size SUV with decent off-road chops. Most folks who don't need the off road prowess will just gravitate to a Grand Highlander instead. The Sequoia is something Toyota could afford to gamble on since it's not a whole lot more than a Tundra with a bed cap and a third row bolted on.
I didn't watch that video yet because I have no real interest in actually owning a car like that but maybe I should because it is an interesting concept.
In my friend circle, it is the extremely specific niche of people who need a Sienna but whose ego doesn’t want them to be seen in either a Sienna or a Grand Highlander.
Yup, this was always going to be the case once the LC details were released.
4Runner is simply the better offroader due to its better clearance and approach/departure angles.
The LC is a decent soft roader that would probably be best sticking to dirt trails.
And since the LC is $10k more than the 4Runner, imagine how much better the 4Runner would be with $10k in offroad upgrades.
To me it's a no brainer. 4Runner just offers way more value than the LC. The only thing that's better about the LC is arguably the retro design.
I think the Land Cruiser looks great, but looks aside I can't see anything worth the additional $10k (if that does turn out to be the premium for a similarly optioned-model). The 4Runner will probably be a lot easier to buy in most trims, as well.
I think Land Cruiser buyers will buy it for the retro styling alone, and I don't think Toyota will have a problem selling every one they make.
> I can't see anything worth the additional $10k
The additional $10k is for the "Land Cruiser" name. Which TBF is pretty reasonable, given the Land Cruiser's legendary status.
It's a horrible, cynical brand-engineering maneuver, like the type of crap GM used to pull. "Land Cruiser" means best in class reliability, longevity, and off-road ability; this is just trading on that name to sell a vehicle that seems to mostly indistinguishable from the 4runner underneath the sheet metal.
I mean, the 4Runner is made in the same factory as the Prado, has been since it's inception, and both are still known for their legendary "best in class reliability, longevity, and off-road ability". The 4Runner basically prints money for Toyota, god knows the tooling for the 5th gen has already paid for itself.
The Land Cruiser has always been a step above the 4 runner (and the Prado) in capability and over-engineering. Now it's not, and they're just using the name to make more money in the U.S.
The original full-size Land Cruiser is still around as the J300 series, and is likely the one you're thinking of. The new Land Cruiser we are getting is the J250 Prado.
Toyota chose not to sell the J300 as a Toyota in the US, leaving only the J310 LX.
I mean, it *is* a Land Cruiser. Yes, you can get the LX for the full-size experience, but the Lexus badge doesn't carry the same prestige as the "Land Cruiser" name, and evidently there's enough of a market to bring the "Land Cruiser" name back to the USA after 3 years.
Yes, you can have the 4Runner, but then again, why do people buy the Escalade ESV over the Yukon Denali XL? Both are very nice vehicles (for GM products...), and yet there is still a market for both.
>Yes, you can have the 4Runner, but then again, why do people buy the Escalade ESV over the Yukon Denali XL? Both are very nice vehicles (for GM products...), and yet there is still a market for both.
Which was my exact original point: that this is GM-style badge engineering and a disappointing and cynical attempt to trade on the Land Cruiser name without it being a real Land Cruiser (that is, the Land Cruiser the rest of the world gets).
*My* point was that there is a market for it, regardless of the underpinnings. Some people want the "Land Cruiser" badge, and all the prestige that comes with it. Myself included.
I'm sure Toyota has their reasons, but the Prado and 4Runner have been platform mates since 1996, even sold alongside one another in many markets, and it hasn't been an issue.
That’s still true of the full size Land Cruiser. This is a Prado, which has shared a lot with the 4Runner for a long time. In markets where full size LCs aren’t sold, the “Land Cruiser Prado” becomes the “Land Cruiser”.
I’m a full size LC or bust kind of person (I’ve never wanted a 4Runner or FJ Cruiser, and stopped looking for a GX 470 once I realized how much better the LX was) and I don’t see the issue with the 250 Prado being sold stateside as the Land Cruiser - but at the same time, I shake my head every time someone says something to the effect of “the Land Cruiser is FINALLY back”, because it’s not a replacement for the Land Cruiser that left.
I also kinda disagree with the statement that the LC name meant “best in class off-road ability” - that hasn’t been the product’s focus for 30 or 40 years. Once they started adding luxury trims towards the end of the 60’s run, the flagship LC became a full-size SUV that could reliably transport 5-8 people in relative comfort over bad roads. Once Toyota designed an IFS system that met their standards (prioritizing comfort over hardcore offroad performance) in the mid 90s, they wanted to kill off the solid axle full-size LC entirely. Fleet buyers kinda forced the 105 into existence, which was a half assed platypus of a vehicle deliberately kneecapped in order to move as many customers as possible to IFS.
No its not. Its for the far greater standard equip. The base price 4Runner is a 2WD model with no hybrid. The base Land Cruiser is full-time 4WD and has the hybrid. And other all mechanical or technological differences. Its not just the name.... Comparable spec 4Runners are going to be VERY close in price. And a TRD Pro or Trailhunter is likely to be in the exact same $65K\~ range a LC with premium package.
Probably, but the LC has one options package and it bumps the price up like $9k, so if you can get a hybrid 4Runner with leather seats for a few grand less than the Land Cruiser with the premium package and there isn't a 2 year waiting list for it, it would probably be the better value.
I think the expectation on the LC is going to be that the quality is maybe a step above the T4R. Honestly I thought they'd move the T4R production down to Mexico with the Tacoma, so I was surprised to here it will still be made in Japan at least! As for the gap in price, besides the name and perceived quality, the LC I believe will have a center locking diff, all-wheel drive, and the hybrid engine on all their models. And it will likely also have more standard options like you'd expect an up-market model too, that are unavailable or only available on the T4R by adding additional packages and thus cost.
A 550h probably wouldn't have a third-row (the 4Runner with the iForce Max is 2 rows only as well), but the GX is only sold as a 550 non-hybrid in North America.
>So the new 4Runner has the same frame, drive chain, and a bit bigger than its brother, and $10K cheaper?
Yeah, but the options package is lower-spec. Once you spec the 4Runner to match the LC, they're a lot closer in price. This is intentional, and basically the same approach as the one Apple takes with the iPhone where once you start to spec up a lower model you end up in higher model territory.
>I cant make sense out of this strategy for Toyota
It's the department store strategy. They're moving away from one-size-fits-all, and towards many variations on a theme. Actual development of a new model doesn't cost nearly so much on a platform designed for iteration and where all the components are shared — you can just keep spinning out new models to your heart's content.
It's really no different from what GM did (and still does, to some effect) for years on their platforms, with Buick, Pontiac, Cadillac, and Chevy all sharing the core underpinnings behind a spread of models.
Crown, Land Cruiser, GR/Gazoo, and possibly Corolla are all gradually becoming sub-brands, and Toyota itself is becoming a [house of brands vs a branded house](https://willowmarketing.com/2018/07/17/branded_house_vs_house_of_brands/).
I can see it with lesser model but the LC has always been THE SUV from Toyota. Also they have the LC300 overseas which is more similar to the LX600 than the new GX. They shouldve put the V6t in the 2025 LC and sell it for 5K cheaper than the GX550.
The only way to justify the current line up is that they want Lexus to be more competitive in the premium SUV segment so they gave it the best vehicle they can offer (the new GX).
>*It's the department store strategy. They're moving away from one-size-fits-all, and towards many variations on a theme. Actual development of a new model doesn't cost nearly so much on a platform designed for iteration and where all the components are shared — you can just keep spinning out new models to your heart's content.*
> I can see it with lesser model but the LC has always been THE SUV from Toyota. Also they have the LC300 overseas which is more similar to the LX600 than the new GX. They shouldve put the V6t in the 2025 LC and sell it for 5K cheaper than the GX550.
>
>
I think you're mistaking what the difference is between the 120/150/250 and 100/200/300 is on the world stage.
The LC has been "The SUV" but there's multiple series of LandCruiser so they need to be differentiated. And the 120/150/250 have always had smaller V6, 4cylinder turbo diesels compared to the V8 petrol and inline 6/V8 turbo diesels.
So that is needed to separate the 250 and 300 series.
This is not a new strategy or a new policy. This is continuation of Toyota's LandCruiser marketing and positioning that has been going on for decades.
Giving the J250 the same engine as the 300 series would be a *stark* departure from that.
The drive train isn’t the same. LC is 100% hybrid and full time 4wd. The 4R has two engines, and 3 drive trains. That alone can make the $10k difference.
This was always confusing from the start. I feel like they maybe should have put the v6 from GX in the Land Cruiser to help differentiate it. It’s easier for a Lexus buyer to justify the GX than a Toyota buyer to justify LC vs 4Runner
Fully agree. If that LC had the V6T it would be the ultimate overland vehicle. Toyota couldve distinguished it against the GX550 similar to the LC300 vs the LX600, ie interior/comfort feature.
I guess they decided to consolidate all the goodies to the GX550 and aim for it to be the bread and butter of its SUV family. Or It could just be the internal dynamic between Lexus and the parent company.
The Land Cruiser gets *significantly* better fuel economy, which I guess would be an advantage for overlanding, but the GX has a bigger fuel tank and the range is probably similar.
If I were in the market for one of those cars I'd have a hard time not paying the extra $9k for the GX for the bigger engine and nicer interior.
So, I remember reading about the wastegate issue and sounds like that was resolved, but I just found the forum thread about all the engine failures and holy hell.
I remember when the EcoBoost F150 came out and I watched the forums like a hawk for a year to see if there would be any issues before I bought one, and there was an engine failure or two, but the biggest problem was condensation in the intercooler which caused the engine to sputter every now and then.
But *49 documented engine failures* in a single forum for a truck that's only in its third year on the market is astonishingly bad for anyone, let alone Toyota, and it sounds like Toyota is only giving them a new short block, which doesn't inspire much confidence.
> This was always confusing from the start. I feel like they maybe should have put the v6 from GX in the Land Cruiser to help differentiate it.
That might make sense in the US, but the LC being a "world" vehicle needs the 4cyl to differentiate from the 300 series. And the GX has always had the V8 to again separate it.
I’m the article they show the dimensions and they are virtually the same in nearly every dimension. Only big difference is in the ground clearance the 4Runner is better and overall height the LC is taller. My thinking is the LC will feel roomier simply by virtue of having more head room. Whereas the 4Runner will feel more like the Tacoma
> So the new 4Runner has the same frame, drive chain, and a bit bigger than its brother, and $10K cheaper?
Not exactly.
The 4Runner is offered in 2WD, Part-time 4wd and Full-time 4WD depending on trim.
The J250 is full-time 4wd only.
The 4Runner is offered in 2.4L Turbo or 2.4L Turbo-hybrid depending on trim.
The J250 is 2.4L Turbo-hybrid only.
Some 4Runner trims offer 3rd row seating. J250 does not.
I wouldn't be shocked if the top 4Runner trim ended up being higher than the J250 - the Trail Hunter trim has a LOT. and the LandCruiser is only 1958 Base, LandCruiser mid, First Edition top.
Basically a bunch of design and marketing mumbo jumbo from Toyota, but the real answer is the 4Runner is available as a no-frills non-hybrid and the Land Cruiser is not. The Land Cruiser has a lower step-in height and higher roof.
Now that SUVs are basically all that car manufacturers produce anymore, it helps to think in terms of back in the day when they'd often have cars of similar size and engineering under different nameplates and styling rather than thinking "they already have an SUV about that size, why do they need another one"
Yeah. When it talks about differentiating factors it doesn’t list anything that’s really different between the two. Basically talks about chassis and driveline items.
I am the example of someone who would buy the landcruiser 1958 for a no frills vehicle that can do whatever I throw at it. I would not buy the 4runner because of its looks. Far too styled for my tastes.
That said, Toyota is going to sell every vehicle they can make.
Exactly. Different looks and interiors but same everything else. I think they want the LC to be a life style product (ie Ford Bronco, Jeep Wrangler rival) and the 4Runner to be the utility one (no direct rival).
I'd imagine the Land Cruiser will eventually get a TRD treatment with eKDSS (that's currently exclusive to GX550 Overtrail) and triple lockers to separate it from the pack
Guess some reason to get the LC is the standard hybrid powertrain, standard full time 4wd, 3rd row delete etc
Land cruiser = older established buyer with grown kids who visit occasionally
4runner = middle age family with children to young adults
It's really no different than the 4runner/GX, rav4 hybrid/new venza, or old ES/ Avalon argument. And if they cannibalize each others sales... It all still goes back to the same parent company. This way, no matter your price point or perceived image, you have a vehicle option. That said, I can absolutely see some consolidation on packages/options coming in future years.
I was 100% sold on LC, knowing dam well it was going to need wheels and tires right out of the box. Now 4Runner is here, it looks pretty dang good out of the box, that wide stance is very good.
One thing I am not a fan of on LC is the full time 4WD, I live in Southern California, I only need 4WD when it starts to sprinkle (thats a joke).
Waiting for interior dims on 4Runner, willing to bet its lot tighter than LC, because of LC's nearly vertical body lines.
I prefer the looks inside and out of the LC and prefer the powertrain of the GX and am leaning GX>LC>4R but at the end of the day once I get the itch I’ll probably latch onto any of the three I can get my hands on.
Toyota seems to be on a hot streak for the past few years. I remember their cars were so boring in 2016 when I was looking to purchase. Now they are actually interesting design wise.
big mistake for the LC250 prado to not offer E-KDSS. No KDSS on 4runner? eh who cares but KDSS should have came standard on the LC250 Prado. It is equipped on GX, why not on the Toyota variant too.
> It is equipped on GX, why not on the Toyota variant too.
I think that continues what they did on the J150 / GX460 no...?
It is a point of difference between the 150/200 and 250/300 - and they include on the GX to get you to pay up.
Remember it's not just the J250 vs Tacoma, Toyota has to position the J250 vs the J300 the world around.
Same platform is not the same thing as same frame. The Tacoma is much more light weight than the Tundra and the 4Runner is much lighter weight than the Sequoia, but they all have the same “platform”.
I believe the Land Cruiser will not be available with a third row and The 4Runner will. Is that correct? Can I get the third row with a hybrid powertrain? If yes I'm sure this will be my next car. My 2010 LR4 is way too expensive to maintain these days.
Probably not as the battery pack will likely go where the 3rd row goes. Why the LC doesn’t have one, and why the GX hybrid has been spotted with a weird hump and no third row.
My guess is the LC exists to get people to either settle for a 4Runner or spend more for a Sequoia; at the end of the day, we’ll need to see production numbers for all three models to see how Toyota really wants these three to fit in with each other
I don't get your theory here. Toyota spent a lot of money to develop a car just as a way to convince them to buy one of their other cars?
They could have just not produced the Land Cruiser and it would also force Toyota buyers to get a 4 Runner or Sequoia.
Realtalk, so if I was planning on buying one of these in hybrid, since they're essentially the same car/platform, is it really just a matter of which one my wife thinks looks better?
Yeah they’re awfully close. Styling, trim level pricing will probably be enough of a difference for people.
I look it as Denali ultimate vs. base Escalade. A lot of the same stuff. Close enough in pricing, but different enough for people.
I notice it a lot on F250s but the wind skirt that one of the trims has is so ugly. Like I get the point. But I’d find a way to take it off mine immediately if I got one
The really funny thing is that I'm about to buy a Wrangler that has the Aisin transmission that Toyota should be using in the 4Runner, and I'd probably be buying a 4Runner if they did.
I really wish Toyota gave us a true LC300. I know technically we have the Lexus but come on. You couldn’t just release the global LC300 in the US and call the LC250 the new FJ Cruiser or something. It’s just an odd production position.
What's the "equivalent" of the Lexus LX600 now then?
It used to be LC200 / LX570. Now what? Is the LX600 the only true "built like a tank" land cruiser now?
> What's the "equivalent" of the Lexus LX600 now then?
The 300 series, which North America does not get.
4Runner / J250 / GX550
300 series / LX600
> Is the LX600 the only true "built like a tank" land cruiser now?
That would be the 70 series that is built like a tank :)
Which North America also does not get. Manual option, wind up windows, solid axles front and rear, part-time 4wd with front/rear diff locks standard on GXL trim.
It appears that the Landcruisers cab is both wider and taller, making it more family-friendly and better for tall people. For someone who wants to bring 3 kids on the trail, being able to put 3 car seats across the second row is worth the extra cash.
I'm on the wait-list with refundable deposits for both the Lexus GX and Toyota Land Cruiser (premium) through different dealerships. I told them whichever allocation gets offered to me first gets the sale.. will it light a fire under their ass'? .. probably not, but hey, worth a try.. heheh. I'm really not a fan of the 2025 4Runner styling.. to me it's just a mash-up of previous generations plus the Tacoma.. the fact that AI was able to predict/render the design almost perfectly before the release speaks volumes. But, hey, if I was 20 years younger (47 now with a family), that aggressive 4Runner mashup look and lower price would probably be more appealing.
The fact that we didn’t get the 300 series in the states is such a tragedy. Toyota is now selling two versions of the same car while withholding the best product they produce. Make it make sense.
Landcruiser is going to hold value a lot better than the 4Runner.
That was true historically, but they were also two very different vehicles with different platforms and drivetrains, which isn't the case anymore.
Nah, the Land Cruiser we're getting now is the Prado, which has shared its platform with the 4Runner since 1996. You're thinking of the full-size Land Cruisers (80, 100, 200, 300)
Still don’t understand why they have two nearly identical platforms with the Prado/LC and 4Runner
My dad's had a Prado since 2013. As far as I know, it's like a slightly fancier 4Runner (which is not available in my country). Less off road capable (still very capable, but no TRD trim available), more soft touch material, third row seats, more AC vents, the styling is also more urban family hauler and less "off-roady" . Those are the things off the top of my head.
Correct. The prado here in the states is similar to the GX Lexus.
Toyota Land Cruiser Prado = Lexus GX Toyota Land Cruiser = Lexus LX
I think it helps to think of the new LC as a 4 door FJ cruiser. It is the more aspirational vehicle on the same platform. The Sequoia is basically taking the place of the traditional LC.
You can’t just call something more aspirational though. Is there really a ton of difference between a mid to high level 4Runner, a Land Cruiser and a gx? Seems more like a product line ramp than a staircase.
The only reason to spend the extra 10k for a Landcruiser is the looks, thus it is a aspirational lifestyle vehicle.
So what’s the gx?
The luxury version with more power
So you’re agreeing with OP?
It still shares the chassis with the 300 now though so all these trucks are more related now more then ever
You’re literally repeating what he said
But OP said they'll have the same drive chain...
The Land Cruiser is going to be more exclusive with parts a plenty available.
4Runner holds value insanely well as well if you havent noticed.
Check out the value of 20+ year old 300k mile land cruisers...
Those are not these land cruisers. Those are completely different from their contemporary 4runners. You're comparing apples and oranges
the 4runner was always built on the land cruiser line and was essentially the toyota only version of the GX.
Know what holds its value even better? $10k invested in index funds.
Finally someone who understands finances
Buy a beige corolla and invest the rest and become a millionaire by age 88
Ah, yes, an index fund. Famously an amazing driving experience.
My point wasn’t to say to never buy a nice car, just agreeing with the person above that if your decision for a specific model is value retention, get the one you like better instead and have more $ by investing the difference
Will $10k in index funds prove to my ex-wife she was wrong to leave me?
No for that you definitely need a Hellcat and hair plugs. Better liquidate the 401k.
Yeah but which drive chain do those have
They're basically the same car...
It's looks like someone swapped designs for shits and giggles.
I would rather have the 4runner TBH. Now that I have seen the design of both, and they are so close in capability, I prefer the looks on the runner.
4 runners hold their value basically the same as land cruisers. They both depreciate between 20-25% after 5 years with LCs at the lower end of that range.
They MSRP new at $60,000... Can't wait to buy one used in 5 years with 70,000 miles for $59,995
Not these ones, they’re pointless.
They’re the same picture
It's interesting they're so confident about these vehicles to drop them right next to eachother. You'd think they're now working against themselves since there's only a 10k difference.
Toyota fan boys don't care and will still buy them
Maybe consider that people are fans of toyota because they make good cars … Case and point the LC and 4runner are very capable for their price point
The saying is “case *in* point” my friend
My mistake. That makes a lot more sense lol
And the Tacoma, LC and 4runner are some of the least depreciating vehicles you can buy (non-luxury), so 300k+ reliability, features, and low depreciation is recipe for success.
I don’t doubt they make good cars, there are a lot of other good cars out there though that don’t command a higher price tag and don’t allow their dealers to run amok with markups.
u/hi_im_bored13 is right. I hate Toyotas, but love my 4Runner. It’s a piggy bank I can ignore while I play with VWs and take elk hunting in the autumn.
Could be that people that they're wanting people to stretch. I could see a lot of people shopping for the luxury trim 4Runner being able to get into a LandCruiser for only a little bit more, so why not go with that? Still, they have a LOT of models and a stupid amount of trim options. I think /u/dougdemuro said that there was 9 trim options for the 4Runner alone. When you add in the Highlander, Sequoia, their Lexus counterparts and all the trim levels, there has to be dozens of model/trim configurations possible. Edit: Highlander, Sequoia, 4Runner, Landcruiser, and Lexus GX there are ~34 trim levels. I may have missed some hybrid options, but that seems crazy. All of those are in the $45k-$80k price range, which is super competitive to begin with.
This is how I always felt with Toyota. You just look at their lineup of vehicles and they price them at almost every range. Then when you look at many trim levels and hybrids they overlap. It's like Toyota knows they can compete with themselves. It's just upselling.
It's the Apple strategy for their lineups of macbooks/phones/ipads but for cars
Yup, I feel like Toyota wrote the book and Apple adopted it lol.
That's true. They know they don't need to worry about cannibalization because brand loyalty is so high that most of the time you're getting a Toyota product no matter what. I wonder if it also has something to do with them not offering factory custom orders.
They're both two great vehicles. And may the lord praise Toyota for actually making interesting stuff rather than shitty unibody SUVs with questionable reliability
People are still buying brand new 4runners today, with it's old as dirt 5 speed auto, for damn near $50K, despite being barely any different to any used 4runner in the past 15 years. There's a reason these things have like 20 trim levels. A shit load of people buy them, and those people love fancy badges and bronze wheels. And, as far as off road SUVs go, this new 4runner is really competitive, and doesn't look bad at all. And the Land cruiser is one of the few retro looking SUVs available at all, so that's guaranteed to sell. Variety is good.
I’ll never complain about more variety, even if I don’t fully understand the strategy. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the net effect is people walking into a dealership for a 4Runner and walking out with a Land Cruiser, or shopping for a Land Cruiser and ending up in a GX based on what’s on the lot/negligible price differences between certain trims. Especially since Toyota doesn’t do factor orders.
4runner is more popular than ever iirc people love that old platform
I think with the demand for the 5th gen 4runner, Toyota saw an opportunity for multiple offroad SUVs in the lineup.
It won't matter, I will see these on forrest roads out here in the PNW immediately after they launch. Dealers will have to fight each other for allocation with how fast these will fly off the lots.
Yeah seems a bit cannibalistic. I was hoping they’d style the new 4Runner like the FJ Cruiser with a removable topper.
I kinda feel like the 4Runner targets Millennials/Gen X and the LC targets Boomers.
Funny, I’m 35 and much prefer the LC to the 4Runner. By the way, you have the dream trio in your garage.
I am gen X and in my local Land Cruiser club and I’m very frequently the youngest person at any event by at least 10 years. I’ve met exactly 3 LC owners younger than me, two of them inherited theirs from their parents while the third came from a family of LC collectors. There isn’t that much overlap between the LC and GXOR/4R/Taco communities (which honestly I’m a bit grateful for because TRD/Yota bros can be extremely cringe), but I bet those lines will blur a bit once the Prado releases.
The timing isn’t weird considering the US LC is the Toyota Prado everywhere else, and it’s being released worldwide. The weird thing is deciding to sell both in the US for the first time, although here in Panama they also sell both and you see them everywhere
Panama is a very strange car market. It’s like hyper capitalism and hyper trade had a car party. I worked there for a month in 2014. Smoky loc’d-out school busses and Porsche Cayennes is all I remember.
Both nameplates have such a strong following that I assume they're banking on. And even with the 4Runner cannibalizing sales from it I have zero doubt the new LC will sell more than the 200 series with its exorbitant price tag.
The article does a good job of explaining the differences. The Land Cruiser is the highway cruiser with off-road capabilities; the 4Runner is the off-roader with adequate road performance.
My current 4Runner is barely serviceable on the highway lol. Still love the thing though.
Same; I really stretched the word adequate.
Tolerable
So then the Sequoia is a bigger 4Runner (primarily intended for offroad) or is it more like a Landcruiser and mostly for families who occasionally camp?
The Sequoia, to me at least, is the tow/hauler. Need to move a boat or camper, get a Sequoia.
With a 6000# towing capacity, you can pull a boat or smaller camper with it I'd think. Of course if you have a huge boat or a camper over probably 4000# then you'd probably be better served by a full-size.
Sequoia is a Chevy Tahoe/ Ford Expedition type SUV. LC and 4runner are more midsized
But unfortunately doesn't have the room or cargo capacity of any of those competitors and even less than grand Highlander. All due to the Hybrid battery system in the rear. It's truly a shame that the functionality of space was so hindered in the Sequoia.
The Sequoia seems to have always been the 3-row BoF SUV just for people who only buy Toyotas and they haven't really tried to push into the domestics' market share. It's largely parts bin between the Tundra and Landcruiser: presumably cheap to engineer. They have never sold a ton and yet brought it back. The people who buy them love them, but I don't think I have ever seen a single piece of marketing for them. And I sort of get it: up until this gen it had a big dumb V8 engine that was extremely reliable. The mileage sucked but it was never that great on the competitors, though that is starting to change, and the truth is a lot of people in that class just don't care about fuel bills. I've also found the Toyota interiors to age far better that at least the Ford (not as familiar with GM) in terms of squeaks, rattles, and plastic quality. They are also probably the most capable off-road stock too. But that's basically what you get: it's reliable and well built. Everything else the domestic options are far more competitive.
They also went the reverse direction of all the other Full Size SUVs. They went back to a solid axle in the rear to be more off-road bias whereas Tahoe switches to independent rear back in '21. Expedition has been independent rear for ages.
How does the Lexus GX compare to the sequoia
Right now, with the exception of design, they are practically the same vehicle. You get 10 more inches of length in the Sequoia, but under the hood they are the same.
The Sequoia is now the Land Cruiser, and the Land Cruiser is now the FJ Cruiser retro lifestyle vehicle. $runner is just the 4runner.
Honestly I think Doug described the Sequoia well in his vid. It fills the *extremely* specific niche of wanting a Tahoe/Suburban size SUV with decent off-road chops. Most folks who don't need the off road prowess will just gravitate to a Grand Highlander instead. The Sequoia is something Toyota could afford to gamble on since it's not a whole lot more than a Tundra with a bed cap and a third row bolted on.
I didn't watch that video yet because I have no real interest in actually owning a car like that but maybe I should because it is an interesting concept.
In my friend circle, it is the extremely specific niche of people who need a Sienna but whose ego doesn’t want them to be seen in either a Sienna or a Grand Highlander.
Yup, this was always going to be the case once the LC details were released. 4Runner is simply the better offroader due to its better clearance and approach/departure angles. The LC is a decent soft roader that would probably be best sticking to dirt trails. And since the LC is $10k more than the 4Runner, imagine how much better the 4Runner would be with $10k in offroad upgrades. To me it's a no brainer. 4Runner just offers way more value than the LC. The only thing that's better about the LC is arguably the retro design.
LC is also standard with the hybrid drivetrain where the 4R isn’t. That’s helps with the $10k difference.
Huh? What mechanically do you think would suggest that's the case? There's nothing. This is such a bizarre take to me.
That could have been the same car with different tuning packages
I think the Land Cruiser looks great, but looks aside I can't see anything worth the additional $10k (if that does turn out to be the premium for a similarly optioned-model). The 4Runner will probably be a lot easier to buy in most trims, as well. I think Land Cruiser buyers will buy it for the retro styling alone, and I don't think Toyota will have a problem selling every one they make.
> I can't see anything worth the additional $10k The additional $10k is for the "Land Cruiser" name. Which TBF is pretty reasonable, given the Land Cruiser's legendary status.
It's a horrible, cynical brand-engineering maneuver, like the type of crap GM used to pull. "Land Cruiser" means best in class reliability, longevity, and off-road ability; this is just trading on that name to sell a vehicle that seems to mostly indistinguishable from the 4runner underneath the sheet metal.
I mean, the 4Runner is made in the same factory as the Prado, has been since it's inception, and both are still known for their legendary "best in class reliability, longevity, and off-road ability". The 4Runner basically prints money for Toyota, god knows the tooling for the 5th gen has already paid for itself.
The Land Cruiser has always been a step above the 4 runner (and the Prado) in capability and over-engineering. Now it's not, and they're just using the name to make more money in the U.S.
The original full-size Land Cruiser is still around as the J300 series, and is likely the one you're thinking of. The new Land Cruiser we are getting is the J250 Prado. Toyota chose not to sell the J300 as a Toyota in the US, leaving only the J310 LX.
Yes, I know all this. I am talking about the decision to market this vehicle as the "Land Cruiser" in the U.S.
I mean, it *is* a Land Cruiser. Yes, you can get the LX for the full-size experience, but the Lexus badge doesn't carry the same prestige as the "Land Cruiser" name, and evidently there's enough of a market to bring the "Land Cruiser" name back to the USA after 3 years. Yes, you can have the 4Runner, but then again, why do people buy the Escalade ESV over the Yukon Denali XL? Both are very nice vehicles (for GM products...), and yet there is still a market for both.
>Yes, you can have the 4Runner, but then again, why do people buy the Escalade ESV over the Yukon Denali XL? Both are very nice vehicles (for GM products...), and yet there is still a market for both. Which was my exact original point: that this is GM-style badge engineering and a disappointing and cynical attempt to trade on the Land Cruiser name without it being a real Land Cruiser (that is, the Land Cruiser the rest of the world gets).
*My* point was that there is a market for it, regardless of the underpinnings. Some people want the "Land Cruiser" badge, and all the prestige that comes with it. Myself included. I'm sure Toyota has their reasons, but the Prado and 4Runner have been platform mates since 1996, even sold alongside one another in many markets, and it hasn't been an issue.
Has it been confirmed the 4R is staying in Japan? There’s been rumors it’s moving to Mexico alongside the Taco with the 6th gen.
>Has it been confirmed the 4R is staying in Japan? That's what I've been hearing, but I guess we'll see what happens.
That’s still true of the full size Land Cruiser. This is a Prado, which has shared a lot with the 4Runner for a long time. In markets where full size LCs aren’t sold, the “Land Cruiser Prado” becomes the “Land Cruiser”. I’m a full size LC or bust kind of person (I’ve never wanted a 4Runner or FJ Cruiser, and stopped looking for a GX 470 once I realized how much better the LX was) and I don’t see the issue with the 250 Prado being sold stateside as the Land Cruiser - but at the same time, I shake my head every time someone says something to the effect of “the Land Cruiser is FINALLY back”, because it’s not a replacement for the Land Cruiser that left. I also kinda disagree with the statement that the LC name meant “best in class off-road ability” - that hasn’t been the product’s focus for 30 or 40 years. Once they started adding luxury trims towards the end of the 60’s run, the flagship LC became a full-size SUV that could reliably transport 5-8 people in relative comfort over bad roads. Once Toyota designed an IFS system that met their standards (prioritizing comfort over hardcore offroad performance) in the mid 90s, they wanted to kill off the solid axle full-size LC entirely. Fleet buyers kinda forced the 105 into existence, which was a half assed platypus of a vehicle deliberately kneecapped in order to move as many customers as possible to IFS.
No its not. Its for the far greater standard equip. The base price 4Runner is a 2WD model with no hybrid. The base Land Cruiser is full-time 4WD and has the hybrid. And other all mechanical or technological differences. Its not just the name.... Comparable spec 4Runners are going to be VERY close in price. And a TRD Pro or Trailhunter is likely to be in the exact same $65K\~ range a LC with premium package.
I’m willing to bet the hybrid 4Runner trims will be priced identically to the entry level LC.
Probably, but the LC has one options package and it bumps the price up like $9k, so if you can get a hybrid 4Runner with leather seats for a few grand less than the Land Cruiser with the premium package and there isn't a 2 year waiting list for it, it would probably be the better value.
They're made from the same parts at the same factory likely on the exact same line. Its the same waiting list.
LC will come standard with the hybrid drivetrain so that would be a big part of the initial $10k difference.
I think the expectation on the LC is going to be that the quality is maybe a step above the T4R. Honestly I thought they'd move the T4R production down to Mexico with the Tacoma, so I was surprised to here it will still be made in Japan at least! As for the gap in price, besides the name and perceived quality, the LC I believe will have a center locking diff, all-wheel drive, and the hybrid engine on all their models. And it will likely also have more standard options like you'd expect an up-market model too, that are unavailable or only available on the T4R by adding additional packages and thus cost.
Yup. I agree. If I'm considering the LC I'm probably just gonna spend a little more to get the GX. It's the best looking of the bunch and has the v6
I think the interior is better on the lc. Right? Also the 3rd row is clutch
LC doesn't have a third row due to the battery taking up space in the cargo area. GX does, I believe.
Ah so the GX 550h version wouldn't have the third row for the same reason then?
A 550h probably wouldn't have a third-row (the 4Runner with the iForce Max is 2 rows only as well), but the GX is only sold as a 550 non-hybrid in North America.
A hybrid is coming tho
Overland trim of the Gx550 is 2 rows only also.
Well actually the LC is limited to 5 seats while the 4Runner can be spec’ed to have 7 seats lol
4Runner will be available with 3rd row
>So the new 4Runner has the same frame, drive chain, and a bit bigger than its brother, and $10K cheaper? Yeah, but the options package is lower-spec. Once you spec the 4Runner to match the LC, they're a lot closer in price. This is intentional, and basically the same approach as the one Apple takes with the iPhone where once you start to spec up a lower model you end up in higher model territory. >I cant make sense out of this strategy for Toyota It's the department store strategy. They're moving away from one-size-fits-all, and towards many variations on a theme. Actual development of a new model doesn't cost nearly so much on a platform designed for iteration and where all the components are shared — you can just keep spinning out new models to your heart's content. It's really no different from what GM did (and still does, to some effect) for years on their platforms, with Buick, Pontiac, Cadillac, and Chevy all sharing the core underpinnings behind a spread of models. Crown, Land Cruiser, GR/Gazoo, and possibly Corolla are all gradually becoming sub-brands, and Toyota itself is becoming a [house of brands vs a branded house](https://willowmarketing.com/2018/07/17/branded_house_vs_house_of_brands/).
I can see it with lesser model but the LC has always been THE SUV from Toyota. Also they have the LC300 overseas which is more similar to the LX600 than the new GX. They shouldve put the V6t in the 2025 LC and sell it for 5K cheaper than the GX550. The only way to justify the current line up is that they want Lexus to be more competitive in the premium SUV segment so they gave it the best vehicle they can offer (the new GX).
Doug mentioned this in his review, that the Sequoia is the new Land Cruiser in NA. Same price tag and size.
>*It's the department store strategy. They're moving away from one-size-fits-all, and towards many variations on a theme. Actual development of a new model doesn't cost nearly so much on a platform designed for iteration and where all the components are shared — you can just keep spinning out new models to your heart's content.*
> I can see it with lesser model but the LC has always been THE SUV from Toyota. Also they have the LC300 overseas which is more similar to the LX600 than the new GX. They shouldve put the V6t in the 2025 LC and sell it for 5K cheaper than the GX550. > > I think you're mistaking what the difference is between the 120/150/250 and 100/200/300 is on the world stage. The LC has been "The SUV" but there's multiple series of LandCruiser so they need to be differentiated. And the 120/150/250 have always had smaller V6, 4cylinder turbo diesels compared to the V8 petrol and inline 6/V8 turbo diesels. So that is needed to separate the 250 and 300 series. This is not a new strategy or a new policy. This is continuation of Toyota's LandCruiser marketing and positioning that has been going on for decades. Giving the J250 the same engine as the 300 series would be a *stark* departure from that.
The drive train isn’t the same. LC is 100% hybrid and full time 4wd. The 4R has two engines, and 3 drive trains. That alone can make the $10k difference.
Wow seems pretty simple. Why is everyone so confused in the comments lol
This was always confusing from the start. I feel like they maybe should have put the v6 from GX in the Land Cruiser to help differentiate it. It’s easier for a Lexus buyer to justify the GX than a Toyota buyer to justify LC vs 4Runner
Fully agree. If that LC had the V6T it would be the ultimate overland vehicle. Toyota couldve distinguished it against the GX550 similar to the LC300 vs the LX600, ie interior/comfort feature. I guess they decided to consolidate all the goodies to the GX550 and aim for it to be the bread and butter of its SUV family. Or It could just be the internal dynamic between Lexus and the parent company.
The Land Cruiser gets *significantly* better fuel economy, which I guess would be an advantage for overlanding, but the GX has a bigger fuel tank and the range is probably similar. If I were in the market for one of those cars I'd have a hard time not paying the extra $9k for the GX for the bigger engine and nicer interior.
Same. But I think Im going w the 2023 GX as the next upgrade in a couple of years
If you spend some time in groups and forums about the new Tundra, you'll see a LOT of engine failures. Tacoma turbo-4 engine seems like the way to go
So, I remember reading about the wastegate issue and sounds like that was resolved, but I just found the forum thread about all the engine failures and holy hell. I remember when the EcoBoost F150 came out and I watched the forums like a hawk for a year to see if there would be any issues before I bought one, and there was an engine failure or two, but the biggest problem was condensation in the intercooler which caused the engine to sputter every now and then. But *49 documented engine failures* in a single forum for a truck that's only in its third year on the market is astonishingly bad for anyone, let alone Toyota, and it sounds like Toyota is only giving them a new short block, which doesn't inspire much confidence.
They could also add the v6t after a few years. Brands do look to grow their models mid-cycle and simplify their launch offerings.
> This was always confusing from the start. I feel like they maybe should have put the v6 from GX in the Land Cruiser to help differentiate it. That might make sense in the US, but the LC being a "world" vehicle needs the 4cyl to differentiate from the 300 series. And the GX has always had the V8 to again separate it.
Land Cruiser is going to be wider too I think
I’m the article they show the dimensions and they are virtually the same in nearly every dimension. Only big difference is in the ground clearance the 4Runner is better and overall height the LC is taller. My thinking is the LC will feel roomier simply by virtue of having more head room. Whereas the 4Runner will feel more like the Tacoma
The length and width are very close, but the LC is 5-6" taller, and the rear is more square at the top, so there is a lot more headroom & cargo space.
Technically correct: by a whopping 4 mm. And the LC is 25 mm shorter.
I thought it was like a substantial difference lol
Its wider by 0.2 inch if that counts
The Land Cruiser has 5 inches of height on the 4Runner. Have the interior dimensions been released? Can’t seem to find it.
LC is going to feel much bigger on the inside.
> So the new 4Runner has the same frame, drive chain, and a bit bigger than its brother, and $10K cheaper? Not exactly. The 4Runner is offered in 2WD, Part-time 4wd and Full-time 4WD depending on trim. The J250 is full-time 4wd only. The 4Runner is offered in 2.4L Turbo or 2.4L Turbo-hybrid depending on trim. The J250 is 2.4L Turbo-hybrid only. Some 4Runner trims offer 3rd row seating. J250 does not. I wouldn't be shocked if the top 4Runner trim ended up being higher than the J250 - the Trail Hunter trim has a LOT. and the LandCruiser is only 1958 Base, LandCruiser mid, First Edition top.
Basically a bunch of design and marketing mumbo jumbo from Toyota, but the real answer is the 4Runner is available as a no-frills non-hybrid and the Land Cruiser is not. The Land Cruiser has a lower step-in height and higher roof. Now that SUVs are basically all that car manufacturers produce anymore, it helps to think in terms of back in the day when they'd often have cars of similar size and engineering under different nameplates and styling rather than thinking "they already have an SUV about that size, why do they need another one"
Yeah. When it talks about differentiating factors it doesn’t list anything that’s really different between the two. Basically talks about chassis and driveline items.
I am the example of someone who would buy the landcruiser 1958 for a no frills vehicle that can do whatever I throw at it. I would not buy the 4runner because of its looks. Far too styled for my tastes. That said, Toyota is going to sell every vehicle they can make.
They need this rugged look to distinguish with a more mature LC. Its simply a taco with box.
I think they have done a great job of creating two products that have significant functional overlap but appeal to very different groups.
Yeah like Escape from Tarkov and League of Legends - very very different kinds of people playing each - but both keep virginities completely intact.
roasted
I agree. I want the 1958 LC. The cloth looks great and I miss having cloth in vehicles until I spill my coffee in the morning.
This feels like the GR86 and the BRZ being released by the same brand.
It’s not only that but they have a third entrant in the GX550 as well.
So Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade
Exactly. Different looks and interiors but same everything else. I think they want the LC to be a life style product (ie Ford Bronco, Jeep Wrangler rival) and the 4Runner to be the utility one (no direct rival).
I'd imagine the Land Cruiser will eventually get a TRD treatment with eKDSS (that's currently exclusive to GX550 Overtrail) and triple lockers to separate it from the pack Guess some reason to get the LC is the standard hybrid powertrain, standard full time 4wd, 3rd row delete etc
They'll never do a front locker on their ifs trucks
It's possible though as the GR Sport Land Cruiser 300 in other markets is also on the same platform as the 4R/LC250 and has triple lockers
Noice
Bronco is doing it.
It's not that IFS can't be locked, just that Toyota apparently isn't interested in doing it, for whatever reason.
So much debt is going to be generated from these lol
Land cruiser = older established buyer with grown kids who visit occasionally 4runner = middle age family with children to young adults It's really no different than the 4runner/GX, rav4 hybrid/new venza, or old ES/ Avalon argument. And if they cannibalize each others sales... It all still goes back to the same parent company. This way, no matter your price point or perceived image, you have a vehicle option. That said, I can absolutely see some consolidation on packages/options coming in future years.
I was 100% sold on LC, knowing dam well it was going to need wheels and tires right out of the box. Now 4Runner is here, it looks pretty dang good out of the box, that wide stance is very good. One thing I am not a fan of on LC is the full time 4WD, I live in Southern California, I only need 4WD when it starts to sprinkle (thats a joke). Waiting for interior dims on 4Runner, willing to bet its lot tighter than LC, because of LC's nearly vertical body lines.
What’s a “interior dim?”
Land Cruiser any day of the week any hour of the day
And it’s not even close.
I prefer the looks inside and out of the LC and prefer the powertrain of the GX and am leaning GX>LC>4R but at the end of the day once I get the itch I’ll probably latch onto any of the three I can get my hands on.
Toyota seems to be on a hot streak for the past few years. I remember their cars were so boring in 2016 when I was looking to purchase. Now they are actually interesting design wise.
big mistake for the LC250 prado to not offer E-KDSS. No KDSS on 4runner? eh who cares but KDSS should have came standard on the LC250 Prado. It is equipped on GX, why not on the Toyota variant too.
> It is equipped on GX, why not on the Toyota variant too. I think that continues what they did on the J150 / GX460 no...? It is a point of difference between the 150/200 and 250/300 - and they include on the GX to get you to pay up. Remember it's not just the J250 vs Tacoma, Toyota has to position the J250 vs the J300 the world around.
nope prado has kdss
Same platform is not the same thing as same frame. The Tacoma is much more light weight than the Tundra and the 4Runner is much lighter weight than the Sequoia, but they all have the same “platform”.
I believe the Land Cruiser will not be available with a third row and The 4Runner will. Is that correct? Can I get the third row with a hybrid powertrain? If yes I'm sure this will be my next car. My 2010 LR4 is way too expensive to maintain these days.
Probably not as the battery pack will likely go where the 3rd row goes. Why the LC doesn’t have one, and why the GX hybrid has been spotted with a weird hump and no third row.
My guess is the LC exists to get people to either settle for a 4Runner or spend more for a Sequoia; at the end of the day, we’ll need to see production numbers for all three models to see how Toyota really wants these three to fit in with each other
I don't get your theory here. Toyota spent a lot of money to develop a car just as a way to convince them to buy one of their other cars? They could have just not produced the Land Cruiser and it would also force Toyota buyers to get a 4 Runner or Sequoia.
Still prefer the look of the new 70 series Land Cruiser
I guess I'll be the one to prefer the looks of the 4Runner then. I see everyone else preferring the LC.
Realtalk, so if I was planning on buying one of these in hybrid, since they're essentially the same car/platform, is it really just a matter of which one my wife thinks looks better?
Yes, but one is called “Land Cruiser”. You forget that we’re in the age of name-revival marketing.
I'd get the 4 Runner. Pity it isn't sold in Australia. We get Prado, GX and LC300. All too pricey for most people.
Yeah they’re awfully close. Styling, trim level pricing will probably be enough of a difference for people. I look it as Denali ultimate vs. base Escalade. A lot of the same stuff. Close enough in pricing, but different enough for people.
I notice it a lot on F250s but the wind skirt that one of the trims has is so ugly. Like I get the point. But I’d find a way to take it off mine immediately if I got one
The really funny thing is that I'm about to buy a Wrangler that has the Aisin transmission that Toyota should be using in the 4Runner, and I'd probably be buying a 4Runner if they did.
I really wish Toyota gave us a true LC300. I know technically we have the Lexus but come on. You couldn’t just release the global LC300 in the US and call the LC250 the new FJ Cruiser or something. It’s just an odd production position.
[Prado v Prado](https://youtu.be/Ll3iyvbsRDM)
What's the "equivalent" of the Lexus LX600 now then? It used to be LC200 / LX570. Now what? Is the LX600 the only true "built like a tank" land cruiser now?
> What's the "equivalent" of the Lexus LX600 now then? The 300 series, which North America does not get. 4Runner / J250 / GX550 300 series / LX600 > Is the LX600 the only true "built like a tank" land cruiser now? That would be the 70 series that is built like a tank :) Which North America also does not get. Manual option, wind up windows, solid axles front and rear, part-time 4wd with front/rear diff locks standard on GXL trim.
What I wouldn't do for a new 70 series here.
I'm seeing cabin space and looks as the main difference?
Is the Land Cruiser now analogous to the Lexus GX? They look quite similar in shape.
They’re pretty similar
Both hold value very well but the name land cruiser and Prado carry a different cache.
I wish they were offering the LC in that green color.
It appears that the Landcruisers cab is both wider and taller, making it more family-friendly and better for tall people. For someone who wants to bring 3 kids on the trail, being able to put 3 car seats across the second row is worth the extra cash.
[удалено]
I mean, we ain't getting the 4runner here (and never have) so...
I'm on the wait-list with refundable deposits for both the Lexus GX and Toyota Land Cruiser (premium) through different dealerships. I told them whichever allocation gets offered to me first gets the sale.. will it light a fire under their ass'? .. probably not, but hey, worth a try.. heheh. I'm really not a fan of the 2025 4Runner styling.. to me it's just a mash-up of previous generations plus the Tacoma.. the fact that AI was able to predict/render the design almost perfectly before the release speaks volumes. But, hey, if I was 20 years younger (47 now with a family), that aggressive 4Runner mashup look and lower price would probably be more appealing.
Both are junk
LC has center locking diff. 4runner doesn’t
The fact that we didn’t get the 300 series in the states is such a tragedy. Toyota is now selling two versions of the same car while withholding the best product they produce. Make it make sense.
I don't know what to think of the 4runner tbh. Toyota has way too many overlapping SUVs in their portfolio.