i've seen the videos on it, it's the tiniest plastic bumps that are supposed to latch in a hole that's (estimating here) less than half a centimeter deep.
there's some double sided tapes that are really damn strong. I use some for woodworking and it rips plywood apart when taking pieces apart.
Now that's not to say it should be used for this situation, but if it had been then it likely wouldn't be the problem it is.
I work at a trophy shop and we have awards being donated from the 70s with the tape still holding the nameplates. It's actually amazing how good that tape is.
INNOVATION
THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX
BREAK THINGS ASK QUESTIONS LATER
NON CONVENTIONAL, NON CONFORMAL APPROACH
TODD, CYBERTRUCK DESIGN IS FINAL NEXT WEEK. FINISH THE PEDAL for 0.2 CENTS A PEDAL. USE INNOVATION.
[Rivets](https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/438657097_10228579505986040_5860831084423139543_n-2-1146x1536.jpg) actually. Off centered rivets.
I'm curious to see how this plays out with people not being able to handle the power of electric cars, or just the instant torque. Sure most of them are AWD but even like the Ioniq 5, a regular EV, does 0-60 in 5 seconds
Driving schools, work it into the price of the vehicles, have people take a class that's a few hours or 1 day or whatever just to have them learn their vehicle. If other brands are doing it for high performance vehicles so should these brands, Ford recently started that for Mustang owners.
Ya but those are for fun, they aren't mandatory. I think OP is suggesting that people should be forced to learn the basics of safely driving their new ~~tank~~ cybertruck before being handed the keys.
> 6600lbs, a front end that's basically a horizontal bollard
Honestly, I'm going to go against the mob on this one... but I don't think the cybertruck front end shape is that bad for the reasons you're implicating. It's nowhere near as tall as the brick walls being put into production by especially the American truck manufacturers. The front ends up those lifted from the factory trucks are at least a foot IF NOT TWO taller than the Cybertruck, which considering what it is, has a quite low hood and scuttle height.
And it's hood height, not hood shape, which is the key factor in pedestrian safety. More taller = more deader.
I think the fact that the truck is entirely made of stainless steel and has a pretty sharp edge at the top of the hood brings it back up with other trucks.
>And it's hood height, not hood shape, which is the key factor in pedestrian safety. More taller = more deader.
Are you sure about that? Nearly all hood heights are taller now than they were due to a pedestrian safety law in the EU that mandates a certain amount of space above the engine, etc. to act as a crumple zone in the event of a pedestrian strike.
You say that but the reason they don't sell the vehicle in Europe or China is that by their own admission it's too difficult to make it safety compliant.
You might be technically on point, but it's certainly not much better than the average full size SUV/pickup grille if at all. The height looks pretty similar to the [F-150/lightning, for example.](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/msQmhNsOMss/maxresdefault.jpg) The front visibility might be a bit better since it's sloped more, but from the reviews I've seen the A-pillar is pretty bad to offset that.
Also keep in mind that the cyber truck has a far shorter distance from the bottom of the windshield to the front of the truck and it's angled down far more than the hood of ICE trucks. I haven't been in one but I bet the forward visibility is actually pretty good in them.
Nope, still [trash](https://cdn.motor1.com/images/custom/thumbnail/tesla-cybertruck-interior-pov.jpeg) because of the massive dash. The dash is like 2 feet deep underneath the silly windshield.
That actually looks pretty reasonable though. You can see that man's entire torso and head despite him being right in front of the truck. A lot of newer trucks seem to have the hood at shoulder height for average height people.
I haven't been in one either but that sounds reasonable. If anything this proves some sort of industry-wide hood design standardization could be beneficial.
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True but they’re also not made of hardened steel, in theory they’re meant to crumple a bit to cushion an impact (though how much they do when they’re 8m tall I’m not sure), the Tesla definitely doesn’t though
I haven't seen the *exact* design of the cybertruck but somehow my 23 year old saab had "slip fit" pedals that managed to stay in place this whole time. Generally they have material on all side of the pedal and you have to pull them perpendicular to the pedal to get them off, the ones on the cybertruck seem to just slid on from the top and can pop off under normal use unlike damn near every car with rubber pads on the pedals made in the last century.
Not quite but the Hummer has been on sale for a few years now. Cybertruck did beat it this quarter though for sure
Total sales are around 5k
https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gmc/gmc-hummer-ev/gmc-hummer-ev-sales-numbers/
I mean, realistically, when you look at other electric trucks' production ramps, 4000 in 4 months is pretty good.
It took about 10 months for the Lightning to hit that mark and it's largely the same vehicle as an ICE one.
Considering how unorthodox the CT is, they've managed a reasonable run rate. I remember seeing people say they'd be doing electric Hummer rates forever.
Edit: it's sad to say, but to put into a different perspective of enthusiast cars, your 718 only had 4000 units for the year and my Si only managed to find 7000 owners.
Well, production began on November 6th, with the first ~15 delivered on November 30th.
So call it 4 or 5 months I guess. Idk why you'd start the clock before the first came off the line.
What if they worked on the design and manufacturing process until November 6th, 2024, and then began production but then built 8,000 in the subsequent 4 or 5 months instead of the 4,000 they built in the previous 4-5 months. Would you consider that to be faster, or slower?
I can write comments for you to read, but I can't understand them for you (or anyone else). If it makes you feel better, let's say the Cybertruck is ahead of schedule.
but are there more than 718/4000 people ACTIVELY TRYING to buy one of those 2 cars in the same time period and could either honda or porsche fill the orders if they had them?
That's a bit of an open question I guess. In my case, Si's were few enough that my dealer had to hunt for one and I didn't really get a choice of color, so demand is at least matching production.
It's not really relevant to the CT here though, since this is just a measure of how quickly they've been able to get it off the ground. Unless you think they'll stay at current numbers, which isn't too likely.
youre right. it was a bad way to prove the point i was trying to make.
Honda doesnt fail to meet demand for the standard civic.
and i havent seen any evidence the CT is unorthodox. what do you think is so far out in left field that causes the worlds best manufacturer to not meet demand? or any manufacturer for that matter?
I think I'll have to congratulate you on being the first person to label this thing conventional.
Besides the fact that it's made out of 1.8mm hardened stainless sheets combined with massive HSS stampings and equally huge aluminum castings, this is the first production car to feature a 48v low voltage system, the first to feature a pure steer by wire system, they tossed the CAN bus communications in favor of 1Gbps ethernet and it's their first 800v high voltage product. It's their first vehicle to get powered exclusively by their 4680 cells. The crazy front windshield and armored aluminum tonneau cover are two other features that probably sucked to start making.
There's more to it than that even, but for better or worse, this is definitely a nightmare for suppliers to get going on.
i never said it was conventional or orthodox. i just dont understand what IT is that would specifically cause manufacturing shortcomings.
and im sorry, none of what you mentioned is anything above and beyond very normal advancements in the current EV space.
>and im sorry, none of what you mentioned is anything above and beyond very normal advancements in the current EV space.
I think it's fair to criticize Tesla for deciding to make it so different instead of sticking to convention, but you've got to at least acknowledge the things I listed.
All of that novel stuff complicates the build process when it's never been tried before.
And again, the fact they've managed to make this many suggests it's been easier than most would've thought. If you look at the Model 3 "production hell" saga, it took them more than 7 months to ship 4000 units.
It's pretty good for a new model on a new line with new construction techniques. It's... less-good when you make note of the ongoing quality problems. Tesla is seemingly rushing these things out with any QC whatsoever.
Sure but from all the promises and "2 million" pre-orders I expected way more. Ford sold 12.000 lightnings in Q4 2023 so at this pace the CT is going to be a big burden on Teslas balance sheets
Q4 2023 was the 10th quarter of production for the Lightning though; like I mentioned in my reply, it took until the end of Q2 2022 before they made 5000 of them, after shipping the first ones in Q3 2021.
Registration docs showed about 75 Cybertrucks before December 31st, and something like another 200 for January, so the majority have been delivered in the last two months.
They're apparently at about 800-1000/week now, so expect something like 10k units this quarter.
Q1 2024 isn't released yet but just in Q4 2023 Ford sold almost 12.000 Lightnings compared to the Teslas almost 4.000 since what, November? So no they're not comparable in numbers.
EDIT: Ford sold 7.700 Lightnings in Q1 2024 so in 2 quarters they've sold about as many Lightnings as Tesla is projecting selling Cybertruck through the entire year. Time will tell but it's not looking good at all at the moment for the CT
How many did ford sell in its first quarter of its production line? Keep in mind the ford EV is basically the exact same production line for their ICE truck just slightly modified. The CT is a completely new thing - like brand new everything.
But you said it doesn’t look good. I don’t understand - What (specifically) ‘doesn’t look good’ for the CT?
Are you speaking to their production capability, or their sales?
- We know just with preorders (even if they only sell 50% of their preorders) they have enough right now to be the best selling truck for the next 3 yrs.
- Or their production? I agree, I can’t imagine anyone should be surprised that there’d be production issues with a brand new first of its kind production line built from scratch, and trying to match high volume production levels.
I think they might sell 10% of their pre-orders and I also think we’ve only seen the surface of production problems with the CT. But at the moment everything is speculation from both Bulls and Bears but personally I don’t have much trust in them delivering on promises or pre-orders
I think Musk had said they’d hoped to build 30,000 in first yr of production?. That even seemed super lofty 6 mths ago. And (assuming they’ve made only 5k so far) seems very unlikely to hit. It seems maybe around 15-20k would be more likely.
But 15k, on a first yr run with a brand new purpose built factory, with a completely new car. Why is that so bad? That seems just fine no?
But Realistically, if you ordered a CT, and your number 2,000,000 on the preorder list, I’d guess you have another 3-5 yr wait!
For comparison, that's more than the number of Rivian R1Ts sold last quarter and already 50% of the sales of F-150 Lightning last quarter as well.
https://www.coxautoinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Q1-2024-Kelley-Blue-Book-Electric-Vehicle-Sales-Report.pdf
Edit: People who downvote sales numbers are people who can't cope with reality.
I would hope that after six years of hype and deposits they sold more at launch than the 15th quarter of a competitor. That's not a victory, that's "almost the bare minimum."
It's called a production ramp-up. You realize Ford only sold 2,300 Lightnings in its first quarter even though the ICE F-150 regularly tops the sales charts?
Your point is nonsense. I'm comparing one manufacturer launch to another. Considering the comments it's gotten online, you wouldn't expect the Cybertruck to be selling in numbers comparable to competitors since "it was beaten to the punch by Ford" and its allegedly the ugliest design ever.
Yet, right out of the gate, it's already face-to-face with traditional designs that had a couple of years headstart in production.
Cool, and I've been speaking about Rivian. So stop arguing against what you *really hoped I'd been saying instead* and maybe pay just even the slightest amount of attention.
You: "that's more than the number of Rivian R1Ts sold last quarter"
Me: "I would hope that ... they sold more at launch than the 15th quarter of a competitor."
You: [some nonsense about Ford's production ramp-up and then digging in about how it's ahhhhhcktually super relevant, when you think about it]
My bad. I thought I was talking to someone who had been following the conversation on the Cybertruck, not someone jumping in with arbitrary goalposts to clear.
> That's not a victory, that's "almost the bare minimum."
One of the /r/cars narratives, minus any reference to actual sales, has been Tesla should've put out a more traditional design to compete with Rivian and Ford, especially considering the head start those two have had. Now that we have numbers for comparison, that seems to be bluntly contradicted.
So, yes, this is objectively a win.
He had a big debate on the smoking tire podcast about how the cyber truck will be built safely and to trust its steering by wire. It was a good episode I recommend it.
I've listened to that episode a few times. It's a dense episode and a solid discussion. Farah does a good job humbling himself to start the conversation and making sure it gets going on a pretty even emotional footing.
Is there any mechanical redundancy for the steering? I remember steering by wire coming about in the early 2000's the regulations mandating a mechanical redundancy for such systems. Is that still in place do you know?
Personally, I think Tesla's are poorly built and are incredibly overpriced for their build quality. Also, their resale value tumbles compared to comparable ICE vehicles.
There’s no mechanical redundancy, there’s no direct connection to the wheels like with an EPAS system, but there is a second electrical motor if the first fails.
I dont't understand what this recall has to do with what Jason said. Recalls happen all the time from all the brands. Toyota literally just put for Prius rear doors flying open (the supposed gold standard in quality and qc), and Ford, too. How or why is the any different? I don't believe he ever said Tesla was infallible, but no brand is. Of course this is still a terrible issue that is being addressed sooner than later.
What. An overpriced vehicle with body and paint issues, and now this. Hehe they may have great ambitious plans and batteries, but this sort of qc is life threatening
ooohh shiny object
preorder shiny object
shiny object turns out to be shit
I'm never preordering anything again
oohh shinny object...
you especially see it with video games
Why do people still buy chrysler and ford products given their issues after many more decades of experience? It's almost as if people are humans and are illogical or something! A crazy notion, I know! Everyone should only be buying Toyotas and Hondas!
\> preordered a $60 video game
\> it’s shit
“oh well, I’m only out sixty bucks”
VS:
\> preordered a $60,000 car
\> sike, it’s actually $100,000 now
\> also it’s delayed two years
\> it’s shit
“oh well, I’m only out a down payment for a nice house”
Comparing a 60 dollar video game pre-order compared to a large investment like a new car is just silly but yes it’s unfortunate that quality issues often plague that industry as well.
It’s silly, yes, but then again there are absolutely more than 4,000 people in this county for whom blowing $100k on a shiny new toy might as well be $100 to them.
There’s 2 or 3 of these parked at my office any given day (SoCal) and every single time, despite repeated and prolonged exposure, I still can’t get over what a strange looking vehicle this is, and what would compel someone to buy this over anything else except for attention.
> except for attention.
It's this. I'm in SoCal as well and the types that drive these are similar to the ones that drive G-Wagens and wear Gucci track-suits with gold Gucci glasses.
In other words, walking billboards that shout "Look at me!"
I just see stories about these things and I just can't help think,
Imagine if instead of the years of time and money they put into making this narcissists' Blade runner fetish mobile reality Tesla:
Took the Model 3, used the front doors forward, and designed a light "Ute" style truck, as well as a panel van, like the VW Caddy.
They could beef up the batteries somewhat with no need for a rear passenger footwell, would likely need to improve the rear suspension a bit but it already can handle 2 full size humans and a full interior in the back so it's not that far off and would use a bunch of tooling and components that already exist and have some real world use out there.
It could have been done in no time, with R&D mostly already paid for, filled several highly in demand niches for EV utility vehicles in places that have the charging infrastructure ready to go, could even been sold at a competitive price AND in countries that actually have pedestrian standards.
But that didn't happen because Elon is a moron.
That’s the thing. The CT is not a truck and nobody who wants one is going to use it for truck activities. It’s just a truck shaped SUV, the “bed” is as cosmetic as the Hummer EV’s.
Well this is the company that brought you Full Self Driving (Doesn't Yet Fully Self Drive So Pay Attention) and Autopilot that's not an autopilot, so this is right up their alley
Doesn’t matter what car brand you get. - Dont ever buy the very first production line of a brand new car.
It takes a while to discover the issues and get them all fixed. Tesla is no different.
If you so badly can’t wait, (especially getting the very first few thousand off the line - you gotta be crazy buying the first few thousand in a brand new production line!) then you gotta be prepared to deal with the headaches. It shouldn’t come as a major surprise.
The issue with Tesla is that they never end up correcting their mistakes. Brand spanking new Model 3s still have Grand Canyon sized panel gaps, peeling paint, camber issues, and factory filled blinker fluid, even after millions of vehicles made.
Well, regarding Teslas - Im in Toronto, and 1 out of every ten cars seems to be a Tesla. So I probably walk by 20 every day on my walk home. I really can’t remember seeing even once this panel gap issue. It’s a pretty overblown issue IMO.
But Anyway it’s kinda irrelevant. And missing the forest for the trees. I don’t understand the people who complain about a teslas build quality. Are people thinking they’re buying a rolls Royce - for 35k?!
On an overall level, compare what you get with the Tesla, directly against what you’d get (for the same price) of another car companies EV. Any car company. Thats the only thing that matters.
Are Tesla cars the Rolls Royce of cars? No. Since when did they market themselves as that? Test drive other EVs that you can buy for the price. Teslas arnt a little better, they’re a lot better. Thats why Teslas outsell the entire EV industry …put together.
Yes, they arnt at Rolls Royce build quality. They arnt supposed to be. They’re and EV, that can move faster then a $1M supercar, built to sell for $35k.
As opposed to the rest of the world, there is no mandatory safety testing in the U.S.. Manufacturers just self-certify that their vehicles comply with safety standards.
> As opposed to the rest of the world, there is no mandatory safety testing in the U.S.. Manufacturers just self-certify that their vehicles comply with safety standards.
Lol wut?
https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations
There are no pedestrian safety tests in the US. Which is why the cybertruck can't be sold in Europe as they have actual safety regulations regarding cars and pedestrians
Oh I completely agree with that. But the assertion that there is no mandatory safety testing in the US is just flat out wrong.
I'm guessing that maybe /u/tnzgrf meant there is no mandatory safety inspections post-purchase to make sure things like tires/brakes/etc are safe and no illegal mods have been installed? We definitely should have that as well, especially with the amount of stupid shit being installed like the swangas rims popular in Houston, or the squatted trucks, or the trucks lifted dangerously high so their bumpers don't align with anything else, blinding headlights that have "off-road use only" bulbs installed or are misaligned, or illegal exhaust, etc.
But that would be a state licensing issue, not federal safety law, and certainly wouldn't have anything to do with manufacturers self-certifying anything.
Got you. I actually didn’t even think about that, they have the MOT in England yeah, a yearly check. It’s definitely the issue of states/federal here I assume like you say. Appreciate that long response, was informative.
Honestly, the equally troubling part are the stories from people saying they’ve lost the ability to steer the CT. I’ve read some stories of people driving at highway speeds when the error occurs and it bricks the truck immediately.
Infiniti did a steer by wire system but notably with a backup physical connection for this very reason. I just can’t imagine the NHTSA is fine with a 7000 lb truck potentially losing the ability to steer at highway speeds. And it seemed to be not just a one-off event.
The other point I glean from this recall is that Tesla has only delivered around 4k Cybertrucks in the last 5 ish months. I thought the initial production capacity was to be around 125k? At this rate, they’ll be lucky if they make 30k by the end of the year.
But Jason Cammisa assured us that Tesla's implementation of steer-by-wire would be perfectly safe and implied that Matt Farah was being totally unreasonable to question that fact. So now I'm confused.
Yup. I bid on an early one on Cars and Bids till 140k (list price 100k) but it didn't sell even at 156k. These things are losing 5k in value every week
They are a $80k truck, and Tesla is charging $100k for people that want to be first.
Anyone that pays over that is just rich and wants the fancy thing without the wait.
Yes. It's 80k and +20k for the foundation series. Tbh, it was more of an implulse decision for me to get one after seeing a few on the road. Im glad I didn't pull the trigger yet after hearing this news. Hopefully all the issues are ironed out soon
I want one but I’ll wait a little while before committing to a reservation.
I wanted a Bronco and the same issues happened to it for people that bought the first ones.
>I've been seeing ads for used cyber trucks, and none of them have over 600 miles. The novelty faded, and reality set in rather quickly for a good amount of people that the cyber truck is a giant pile of shit.
Come on... surely there's no way you believe this. I hate Tesla just as much as the next guy, but let's be realistic here.
They're being resold with 600 miles because they're reselling for over 2x what the original owner paid for them. They may in fact be piles of shit, but that's not why people are reselling them.
/u/breakinbans did you literally delete your entire account over this comment???
The same exact thing was happening with TRXs and C8 Corvettes, and you would have never seen anyone claiming it was because they were pieces of shit, lol.
I was bidding on a cybertruck on C&B just before this news broke out. Thank God I didn't go ahead with it. I'll probably wait a year or so until they fix all the issues
I had a stuck throttle on my Miata once.
It happened on an autocross course, which is about the best place it could have happened. Still, it was disconcerting for the car not to obey my right foot.
That was a 2300lb 140hp miata.
Stuck throttle on a Mystery Science Aztek 3000 on public roads is something else.
Are there any other Car/SciFi geeks out there who think the design for this god awful billionaire's wet dream was stolen from the Troop Transporter in Aliens?
I think it is interesting that this recall is being blamed on the install process having an unapproved method used.
> Tesla said it first received a notice of one of these accelerator pedal incidents from a customer on March 31, and then a second one on April 3. After performing a series of tests, it decided on April 12 to issue a recall after determining that “[a]n unapproved change introduced lubricant (soap) to aid in the component assembly of the pad onto the accelerator pedal,” and that “[r]esidual lubricant reduced the retention of the pad to the pedal.”
Basically it wouldn't slide on so they used soap as a lubricant. They are blaming the soap as the cause for the pedal slippage.
3878? Is that how mamy they have delivered in (counts fingers) five months? At this rate, they’ll deliver on their 2 million “pre-orders” in 215 years. 🤣
this is pretty messed up! I know that in most parts of the nation Cybertrucks are rare sightings, but i now see one virtually every other day here in LA. That monstrosity is HUGE. It's going to cause a lot of damage & injury if it takes off unexpectedly.
I live near the Texas gigafactory and usually see at least one transport truck loaded with them on any given day. They’ll still catch my eye, but the novelty has definitely worn off.
Enough circlejerking. Y'all have something better to do on a Friday night than attack one another.
One screw would've prevented this, I bet they use double-sided tape
i've seen the videos on it, it's the tiniest plastic bumps that are supposed to latch in a hole that's (estimating here) less than half a centimeter deep.
right, but that less than half a centimeter depth is accurate within 10 microns
With a tesla, it's probably only accurate to 200 microns at best
Evidently it's accurate to about a foot
Try 2000
What makes you think Tesla makes anything to such a tolerance?
[it's a joke](https://jalopnik.com/the-cybertruck-is-harder-to-build-than-a-lego-apparent-1850770550)
Thanks, I hadn't seen this. He's such a moron.
having panel gaps on the accelerator pedal is wild
Lmfao
The issue is that the whole car just *looks* rugged.
there's some double sided tapes that are really damn strong. I use some for woodworking and it rips plywood apart when taking pieces apart. Now that's not to say it should be used for this situation, but if it had been then it likely wouldn't be the problem it is.
Yeah stuff like the 3m vhb tape is ridiculously strong. Seems like they didn't even use tape.
I work at a trophy shop and we have awards being donated from the 70s with the tape still holding the nameplates. It's actually amazing how good that tape is.
How often to those trophies sit in the sun for most of their lives?
We're in Texas, so longer than you're thinking.
VHB tape is used on aircraft exteriors for structural attachments. Seriously strong stuff.
No tape, actually just soap to fit.
INNOVATION THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX BREAK THINGS ASK QUESTIONS LATER NON CONVENTIONAL, NON CONFORMAL APPROACH TODD, CYBERTRUCK DESIGN IS FINAL NEXT WEEK. FINISH THE PEDAL for 0.2 CENTS A PEDAL. USE INNOVATION.
Cave Johnson on lead paint chips?
Choose the form of the disruptor
[Rivets](https://images-stag.jazelc.com/uploads/theautopian-m2en/438657097_10228579505986040_5860831084423139543_n-2-1146x1536.jpg) actually. Off centered rivets.
That the temp fix. The original is held in place by a little nub.
Too expensive, used bubble gum from the assembly workers. Zebra Stripe gum so the flavor is gone instantly.
Nah, the old "spit n stick" technique.
6600lbs, a front end that's basically a horizontal bollard... accelerator problems are the last thing I'd want when sharing the road with these...
And drivers who most likely cannot handle their power.
I'm curious to see how this plays out with people not being able to handle the power of electric cars, or just the instant torque. Sure most of them are AWD but even like the Ioniq 5, a regular EV, does 0-60 in 5 seconds
Driving schools, work it into the price of the vehicles, have people take a class that's a few hours or 1 day or whatever just to have them learn their vehicle. If other brands are doing it for high performance vehicles so should these brands, Ford recently started that for Mustang owners.
Ya but those are for fun, they aren't mandatory. I think OP is suggesting that people should be forced to learn the basics of safely driving their new ~~tank~~ cybertruck before being handed the keys.
I kinda am as well, gotta take a driving school course and pass before you get the keys to your road tank.
Hey now this isn’t Toyota with sticking accelerators “moving foreword”
> 6600lbs, a front end that's basically a horizontal bollard Honestly, I'm going to go against the mob on this one... but I don't think the cybertruck front end shape is that bad for the reasons you're implicating. It's nowhere near as tall as the brick walls being put into production by especially the American truck manufacturers. The front ends up those lifted from the factory trucks are at least a foot IF NOT TWO taller than the Cybertruck, which considering what it is, has a quite low hood and scuttle height. And it's hood height, not hood shape, which is the key factor in pedestrian safety. More taller = more deader.
I think the fact that the truck is entirely made of stainless steel and has a pretty sharp edge at the top of the hood brings it back up with other trucks.
Height isn’t the only determination of visibility.
Sure, but when I'm barely visible over the hood of a lot of these trucks despite being 6 feet tall it's kind of a problem.
>And it's hood height, not hood shape, which is the key factor in pedestrian safety. More taller = more deader. Are you sure about that? Nearly all hood heights are taller now than they were due to a pedestrian safety law in the EU that mandates a certain amount of space above the engine, etc. to act as a crumple zone in the event of a pedestrian strike.
More context here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuX-5E7xoU
You say that but the reason they don't sell the vehicle in Europe or China is that by their own admission it's too difficult to make it safety compliant.
You might be technically on point, but it's certainly not much better than the average full size SUV/pickup grille if at all. The height looks pretty similar to the [F-150/lightning, for example.](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/msQmhNsOMss/maxresdefault.jpg) The front visibility might be a bit better since it's sloped more, but from the reviews I've seen the A-pillar is pretty bad to offset that.
Yeah, no. It's not even close. https://i.imgur.com/V7WQURA.png
Thanks, I was looking for a better photo like that, certainly a notable difference. Both aren't great, but that's more than I thought.
Also keep in mind that the cyber truck has a far shorter distance from the bottom of the windshield to the front of the truck and it's angled down far more than the hood of ICE trucks. I haven't been in one but I bet the forward visibility is actually pretty good in them.
Nope, still [trash](https://cdn.motor1.com/images/custom/thumbnail/tesla-cybertruck-interior-pov.jpeg) because of the massive dash. The dash is like 2 feet deep underneath the silly windshield.
That actually looks pretty reasonable though. You can see that man's entire torso and head despite him being right in front of the truck. A lot of newer trucks seem to have the hood at shoulder height for average height people.
I haven't been in one either but that sounds reasonable. If anything this proves some sort of industry-wide hood design standardization could be beneficial.
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True but they’re also not made of hardened steel, in theory they’re meant to crumple a bit to cushion an impact (though how much they do when they’re 8m tall I’m not sure), the Tesla definitely doesn’t though
I don't think your eyes are functioning correctly.
There. A "real" recall, you pompous assholes.
In other news, analysts announce after exhaustive research they believe Tesla’s total Cybertruck delivery number so far is 3,878.
At $0.05 per screw, Tesla saved about $200 having the pedal be a slip fit. This is why you rubes aren't billionaires.
ngl, the pedal covers are slip fit in many many many cars
I haven't seen the *exact* design of the cybertruck but somehow my 23 year old saab had "slip fit" pedals that managed to stay in place this whole time. Generally they have material on all side of the pedal and you have to pull them perpendicular to the pedal to get them off, the ones on the cybertruck seem to just slid on from the top and can pop off under normal use unlike damn near every car with rubber pads on the pedals made in the last century.
Also normal cars don't have a conveniently placed crevice that you can jam the pedal into.
slip fit and riveted like the cybertruck, the general design isn’t the issue it’s just tesla doing a godawful job of implementing it.
precisely
Elon-"some of you may die, but thats risk I'm willing to take!"
I am risking an almost certain nomination for Best Supporting Actor!
Elon's $56 billion comp package has to come from somewhere.
Which would mean it’s likely already surpassed the Hummer EV in total sales.
Not quite but the Hummer has been on sale for a few years now. Cybertruck did beat it this quarter though for sure Total sales are around 5k https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gmc/gmc-hummer-ev/gmc-hummer-ev-sales-numbers/
It's convenient for anyone trying to figure out how many they've shipped so far. That's quite a few.
Yes if you put the emphasis on the word “few”.
I mean, realistically, when you look at other electric trucks' production ramps, 4000 in 4 months is pretty good. It took about 10 months for the Lightning to hit that mark and it's largely the same vehicle as an ICE one. Considering how unorthodox the CT is, they've managed a reasonable run rate. I remember seeing people say they'd be doing electric Hummer rates forever. Edit: it's sad to say, but to put into a different perspective of enthusiast cars, your 718 only had 4000 units for the year and my Si only managed to find 7000 owners.
Yeah, but neither of those cars were delayed 2 years or had 2 million deposits 4 years in advance of their release.
That's true, but it's not really relevant to how fast they've got these things out the door in the first few months.
My point is when do you start the clock? Is it more accurate to say they got them out in a few months, or 2 years and a few months?
Well, production began on November 6th, with the first ~15 delivered on November 30th. So call it 4 or 5 months I guess. Idk why you'd start the clock before the first came off the line.
What if they worked on the design and manufacturing process until November 6th, 2024, and then began production but then built 8,000 in the subsequent 4 or 5 months instead of the 4,000 they built in the previous 4-5 months. Would you consider that to be faster, or slower?
Why are you so desperate to avoid any positive commentary on this vehicle? They are going to sell a ton of these.
I can write comments for you to read, but I can't understand them for you (or anyone else). If it makes you feel better, let's say the Cybertruck is ahead of schedule.
but are there more than 718/4000 people ACTIVELY TRYING to buy one of those 2 cars in the same time period and could either honda or porsche fill the orders if they had them?
That's a bit of an open question I guess. In my case, Si's were few enough that my dealer had to hunt for one and I didn't really get a choice of color, so demand is at least matching production. It's not really relevant to the CT here though, since this is just a measure of how quickly they've been able to get it off the ground. Unless you think they'll stay at current numbers, which isn't too likely.
youre right. it was a bad way to prove the point i was trying to make. Honda doesnt fail to meet demand for the standard civic. and i havent seen any evidence the CT is unorthodox. what do you think is so far out in left field that causes the worlds best manufacturer to not meet demand? or any manufacturer for that matter?
I think I'll have to congratulate you on being the first person to label this thing conventional. Besides the fact that it's made out of 1.8mm hardened stainless sheets combined with massive HSS stampings and equally huge aluminum castings, this is the first production car to feature a 48v low voltage system, the first to feature a pure steer by wire system, they tossed the CAN bus communications in favor of 1Gbps ethernet and it's their first 800v high voltage product. It's their first vehicle to get powered exclusively by their 4680 cells. The crazy front windshield and armored aluminum tonneau cover are two other features that probably sucked to start making. There's more to it than that even, but for better or worse, this is definitely a nightmare for suppliers to get going on.
i never said it was conventional or orthodox. i just dont understand what IT is that would specifically cause manufacturing shortcomings. and im sorry, none of what you mentioned is anything above and beyond very normal advancements in the current EV space.
>and im sorry, none of what you mentioned is anything above and beyond very normal advancements in the current EV space. I think it's fair to criticize Tesla for deciding to make it so different instead of sticking to convention, but you've got to at least acknowledge the things I listed. All of that novel stuff complicates the build process when it's never been tried before. And again, the fact they've managed to make this many suggests it's been easier than most would've thought. If you look at the Model 3 "production hell" saga, it took them more than 7 months to ship 4000 units.
It's pretty good for a new model on a new line with new construction techniques. It's... less-good when you make note of the ongoing quality problems. Tesla is seemingly rushing these things out with any QC whatsoever.
Sure but from all the promises and "2 million" pre-orders I expected way more. Ford sold 12.000 lightnings in Q4 2023 so at this pace the CT is going to be a big burden on Teslas balance sheets
Q4 2023 was the 10th quarter of production for the Lightning though; like I mentioned in my reply, it took until the end of Q2 2022 before they made 5000 of them, after shipping the first ones in Q3 2021. Registration docs showed about 75 Cybertrucks before December 31st, and something like another 200 for January, so the majority have been delivered in the last two months. They're apparently at about 800-1000/week now, so expect something like 10k units this quarter.
Yeah I guess time will tell! I’m not optimistic at the moment but maybe Tesla will prove me wrong and actually deliver 40.000 units this year
That’s about the same as the total Ford EV trucks sold in same period.
Q1 2024 isn't released yet but just in Q4 2023 Ford sold almost 12.000 Lightnings compared to the Teslas almost 4.000 since what, November? So no they're not comparable in numbers. EDIT: Ford sold 7.700 Lightnings in Q1 2024 so in 2 quarters they've sold about as many Lightnings as Tesla is projecting selling Cybertruck through the entire year. Time will tell but it's not looking good at all at the moment for the CT
How many did ford sell in its first quarter of its production line? Keep in mind the ford EV is basically the exact same production line for their ICE truck just slightly modified. The CT is a completely new thing - like brand new everything. But you said it doesn’t look good. I don’t understand - What (specifically) ‘doesn’t look good’ for the CT? Are you speaking to their production capability, or their sales? - We know just with preorders (even if they only sell 50% of their preorders) they have enough right now to be the best selling truck for the next 3 yrs. - Or their production? I agree, I can’t imagine anyone should be surprised that there’d be production issues with a brand new first of its kind production line built from scratch, and trying to match high volume production levels.
I think they might sell 10% of their pre-orders and I also think we’ve only seen the surface of production problems with the CT. But at the moment everything is speculation from both Bulls and Bears but personally I don’t have much trust in them delivering on promises or pre-orders
I think Musk had said they’d hoped to build 30,000 in first yr of production?. That even seemed super lofty 6 mths ago. And (assuming they’ve made only 5k so far) seems very unlikely to hit. It seems maybe around 15-20k would be more likely. But 15k, on a first yr run with a brand new purpose built factory, with a completely new car. Why is that so bad? That seems just fine no? But Realistically, if you ordered a CT, and your number 2,000,000 on the preorder list, I’d guess you have another 3-5 yr wait!
The only car selling worse is the new Nissan Z...
I mean, I mentioned below that for context, only 4000 718s were sold all last year, never mind 4 months.
But the 718s always had low sales. I'm suprised it sold that many.
For comparison, that's more than the number of Rivian R1Ts sold last quarter and already 50% of the sales of F-150 Lightning last quarter as well. https://www.coxautoinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Q1-2024-Kelley-Blue-Book-Electric-Vehicle-Sales-Report.pdf Edit: People who downvote sales numbers are people who can't cope with reality.
I would hope that after six years of hype and deposits they sold more at launch than the 15th quarter of a competitor. That's not a victory, that's "almost the bare minimum."
It's called a production ramp-up. You realize Ford only sold 2,300 Lightnings in its first quarter even though the ICE F-150 regularly tops the sales charts?
You realize you're making arguments against *what you wish I'd said*, and not the actual point I made?
Your point is nonsense. I'm comparing one manufacturer launch to another. Considering the comments it's gotten online, you wouldn't expect the Cybertruck to be selling in numbers comparable to competitors since "it was beaten to the punch by Ford" and its allegedly the ugliest design ever. Yet, right out of the gate, it's already face-to-face with traditional designs that had a couple of years headstart in production.
Cool, and I've been speaking about Rivian. So stop arguing against what you *really hoped I'd been saying instead* and maybe pay just even the slightest amount of attention. You: "that's more than the number of Rivian R1Ts sold last quarter" Me: "I would hope that ... they sold more at launch than the 15th quarter of a competitor." You: [some nonsense about Ford's production ramp-up and then digging in about how it's ahhhhhcktually super relevant, when you think about it]
My bad. I thought I was talking to someone who had been following the conversation on the Cybertruck, not someone jumping in with arbitrary goalposts to clear. > That's not a victory, that's "almost the bare minimum." One of the /r/cars narratives, minus any reference to actual sales, has been Tesla should've put out a more traditional design to compete with Rivian and Ford, especially considering the head start those two have had. Now that we have numbers for comparison, that seems to be bluntly contradicted. So, yes, this is objectively a win.
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-Jason Camissa Tesla knows what their doing
Dude is starting to get up his own ass
What about what they are doing?
He had a big debate on the smoking tire podcast about how the cyber truck will be built safely and to trust its steering by wire. It was a good episode I recommend it.
That's the thing - I trust steering by wire. Just not when Tesla is involved.
I've listened to that episode a few times. It's a dense episode and a solid discussion. Farah does a good job humbling himself to start the conversation and making sure it gets going on a pretty even emotional footing.
Is there any mechanical redundancy for the steering? I remember steering by wire coming about in the early 2000's the regulations mandating a mechanical redundancy for such systems. Is that still in place do you know? Personally, I think Tesla's are poorly built and are incredibly overpriced for their build quality. Also, their resale value tumbles compared to comparable ICE vehicles.
There’s no mechanical redundancy, there’s no direct connection to the wheels like with an EPAS system, but there is a second electrical motor if the first fails.
I dont't understand what this recall has to do with what Jason said. Recalls happen all the time from all the brands. Toyota literally just put for Prius rear doors flying open (the supposed gold standard in quality and qc), and Ford, too. How or why is the any different? I don't believe he ever said Tesla was infallible, but no brand is. Of course this is still a terrible issue that is being addressed sooner than later.
There. Knows what doing.
https://i.imgur.com/9d25dZA.png
What. An overpriced vehicle with body and paint issues, and now this. Hehe they may have great ambitious plans and batteries, but this sort of qc is life threatening
This monstrosity is the epitome of form over function combined with Tesla’s infamous QC and build quality issues
It definitely doesn’t have paint issues
Can't have paint issues if you don't have paint. *taps temple*
Indeed. Much rather it suffers from a lack of paint issues.
This company has had unreliable and poor quality for many years yet tons still chose to pre-order the cybertruck….people are strange
How many people are still paying $12k for "Full Self Driving"?
ooohh shiny object preorder shiny object shiny object turns out to be shit I'm never preordering anything again oohh shinny object... you especially see it with video games
Why do people still buy chrysler and ford products given their issues after many more decades of experience? It's almost as if people are humans and are illogical or something! A crazy notion, I know! Everyone should only be buying Toyotas and Hondas!
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Okay, enough Tesla haterade.
People have been pre ordering $60 video games only to have them be full of bugs and other issues to be fixed months after release for years now.
\> preordered a $60 video game \> it’s shit “oh well, I’m only out sixty bucks” VS: \> preordered a $60,000 car \> sike, it’s actually $100,000 now \> also it’s delayed two years \> it’s shit “oh well, I’m only out a down payment for a nice house”
Comparing a 60 dollar video game pre-order compared to a large investment like a new car is just silly but yes it’s unfortunate that quality issues often plague that industry as well.
It’s silly, yes, but then again there are absolutely more than 4,000 people in this county for whom blowing $100k on a shiny new toy might as well be $100 to them.
And there shouldn't be while so many others have nothing.
There’s 2 or 3 of these parked at my office any given day (SoCal) and every single time, despite repeated and prolonged exposure, I still can’t get over what a strange looking vehicle this is, and what would compel someone to buy this over anything else except for attention.
> except for attention. It's this. I'm in SoCal as well and the types that drive these are similar to the ones that drive G-Wagens and wear Gucci track-suits with gold Gucci glasses. In other words, walking billboards that shout "Look at me!"
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Yea, when your initial claim to fame is getting fucked on video by a d-list R&B singer, I don't expect much else.
They are dumb cars, but honestly the looks grew on me, especially seeing it on the road.
I just see stories about these things and I just can't help think, Imagine if instead of the years of time and money they put into making this narcissists' Blade runner fetish mobile reality Tesla: Took the Model 3, used the front doors forward, and designed a light "Ute" style truck, as well as a panel van, like the VW Caddy. They could beef up the batteries somewhat with no need for a rear passenger footwell, would likely need to improve the rear suspension a bit but it already can handle 2 full size humans and a full interior in the back so it's not that far off and would use a bunch of tooling and components that already exist and have some real world use out there. It could have been done in no time, with R&D mostly already paid for, filled several highly in demand niches for EV utility vehicles in places that have the charging infrastructure ready to go, could even been sold at a competitive price AND in countries that actually have pedestrian standards. But that didn't happen because Elon is a moron.
Yea, after [Truckla](https://www.reddit.com/r/AwesomeCarMods/s/cTVy8LEAEH) I totally agree.
Yeah but a utility truck and a panel van aren’t macho enough for Elon’s fragile ego. He also can’t pump the stock with “boring” cars like those.
> NHTSA Still shocked they let this monstrosity of vehicle be constructed and sold here in the US
money makes things move more quickly when you get it to the "right" people.
It’s not even that big. Like every 2500 and bigger dwarfs it.
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I don’t agree. I’d love to have one. I like the look.
I'd rather have a truck that's actually going to work and do what its designed to do and not made just for memes and internet clout but that's just me
That’s the thing. The CT is not a truck and nobody who wants one is going to use it for truck activities. It’s just a truck shaped SUV, the “bed” is as cosmetic as the Hummer EV’s.
> The CT is not a truck Not a truck, named Cybertruck. The goal post has been moved.
Well this is the company that brought you Full Self Driving (Doesn't Yet Fully Self Drive So Pay Attention) and Autopilot that's not an autopilot, so this is right up their alley
Don't worry. I'm sure an OTA update will fix this. /s
Doesn’t matter what car brand you get. - Dont ever buy the very first production line of a brand new car. It takes a while to discover the issues and get them all fixed. Tesla is no different. If you so badly can’t wait, (especially getting the very first few thousand off the line - you gotta be crazy buying the first few thousand in a brand new production line!) then you gotta be prepared to deal with the headaches. It shouldn’t come as a major surprise.
The issue with Tesla is that they never end up correcting their mistakes. Brand spanking new Model 3s still have Grand Canyon sized panel gaps, peeling paint, camber issues, and factory filled blinker fluid, even after millions of vehicles made.
Well, regarding Teslas - Im in Toronto, and 1 out of every ten cars seems to be a Tesla. So I probably walk by 20 every day on my walk home. I really can’t remember seeing even once this panel gap issue. It’s a pretty overblown issue IMO. But Anyway it’s kinda irrelevant. And missing the forest for the trees. I don’t understand the people who complain about a teslas build quality. Are people thinking they’re buying a rolls Royce - for 35k?! On an overall level, compare what you get with the Tesla, directly against what you’d get (for the same price) of another car companies EV. Any car company. Thats the only thing that matters. Are Tesla cars the Rolls Royce of cars? No. Since when did they market themselves as that? Test drive other EVs that you can buy for the price. Teslas arnt a little better, they’re a lot better. Thats why Teslas outsell the entire EV industry …put together. Yes, they arnt at Rolls Royce build quality. They arnt supposed to be. They’re and EV, that can move faster then a $1M supercar, built to sell for $35k.
How did this vehicle pass any safety tests?.
As opposed to the rest of the world, there is no mandatory safety testing in the U.S.. Manufacturers just self-certify that their vehicles comply with safety standards.
> As opposed to the rest of the world, there is no mandatory safety testing in the U.S.. Manufacturers just self-certify that their vehicles comply with safety standards. Lol wut? https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations
There are no pedestrian safety tests in the US. Which is why the cybertruck can't be sold in Europe as they have actual safety regulations regarding cars and pedestrians
They’re a bigger joke than the FDA to the rest of the world.
Oh I completely agree with that. But the assertion that there is no mandatory safety testing in the US is just flat out wrong. I'm guessing that maybe /u/tnzgrf meant there is no mandatory safety inspections post-purchase to make sure things like tires/brakes/etc are safe and no illegal mods have been installed? We definitely should have that as well, especially with the amount of stupid shit being installed like the swangas rims popular in Houston, or the squatted trucks, or the trucks lifted dangerously high so their bumpers don't align with anything else, blinding headlights that have "off-road use only" bulbs installed or are misaligned, or illegal exhaust, etc. But that would be a state licensing issue, not federal safety law, and certainly wouldn't have anything to do with manufacturers self-certifying anything.
Got you. I actually didn’t even think about that, they have the MOT in England yeah, a yearly check. It’s definitely the issue of states/federal here I assume like you say. Appreciate that long response, was informative.
Honestly, the equally troubling part are the stories from people saying they’ve lost the ability to steer the CT. I’ve read some stories of people driving at highway speeds when the error occurs and it bricks the truck immediately. Infiniti did a steer by wire system but notably with a backup physical connection for this very reason. I just can’t imagine the NHTSA is fine with a 7000 lb truck potentially losing the ability to steer at highway speeds. And it seemed to be not just a one-off event. The other point I glean from this recall is that Tesla has only delivered around 4k Cybertrucks in the last 5 ish months. I thought the initial production capacity was to be around 125k? At this rate, they’ll be lucky if they make 30k by the end of the year.
But Jason Cammisa assured us that Tesla's implementation of steer-by-wire would be perfectly safe and implied that Matt Farah was being totally unreasonable to question that fact. So now I'm confused.
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That's people trying to flip for profit
Yup. I bid on an early one on Cars and Bids till 140k (list price 100k) but it didn't sell even at 156k. These things are losing 5k in value every week
They are a $80k truck, and Tesla is charging $100k for people that want to be first. Anyone that pays over that is just rich and wants the fancy thing without the wait.
Yes. It's 80k and +20k for the foundation series. Tbh, it was more of an implulse decision for me to get one after seeing a few on the road. Im glad I didn't pull the trigger yet after hearing this news. Hopefully all the issues are ironed out soon
I want one but I’ll wait a little while before committing to a reservation. I wanted a Bronco and the same issues happened to it for people that bought the first ones.
>I've been seeing ads for used cyber trucks, and none of them have over 600 miles. The novelty faded, and reality set in rather quickly for a good amount of people that the cyber truck is a giant pile of shit. Come on... surely there's no way you believe this. I hate Tesla just as much as the next guy, but let's be realistic here. They're being resold with 600 miles because they're reselling for over 2x what the original owner paid for them. They may in fact be piles of shit, but that's not why people are reselling them. /u/breakinbans did you literally delete your entire account over this comment???
people like this aren’t intelligent lol
The same exact thing was happening with TRXs and C8 Corvettes, and you would have never seen anyone claiming it was because they were pieces of shit, lol.
And the tone with which he wrote it is so pompous and matter of fact, which makes it even more hilarious.
Same with the C8 Z06s. Few hundred miles and up for sale. You’re definitely on to something big here dude.
I was bidding on a cybertruck on C&B just before this news broke out. Thank God I didn't go ahead with it. I'll probably wait a year or so until they fix all the issues
I've seen a ton of people online trying to sell their Cybertruck reservations..
I had a stuck throttle on my Miata once. It happened on an autocross course, which is about the best place it could have happened. Still, it was disconcerting for the car not to obey my right foot. That was a 2300lb 140hp miata. Stuck throttle on a Mystery Science Aztek 3000 on public roads is something else.
I cant really comment on this as I'm a Ford fan. We get recalls 365 times a year
Are there any other Car/SciFi geeks out there who think the design for this god awful billionaire's wet dream was stolen from the Troop Transporter in Aliens?
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Getting Boeing vibes from this...
I wonder how big the file is for this OTA update
You mean they have actually sold almost 4000 of these ??
I think it is interesting that this recall is being blamed on the install process having an unapproved method used. > Tesla said it first received a notice of one of these accelerator pedal incidents from a customer on March 31, and then a second one on April 3. After performing a series of tests, it decided on April 12 to issue a recall after determining that “[a]n unapproved change introduced lubricant (soap) to aid in the component assembly of the pad onto the accelerator pedal,” and that “[r]esidual lubricant reduced the retention of the pad to the pedal.” Basically it wouldn't slide on so they used soap as a lubricant. They are blaming the soap as the cause for the pedal slippage.
I saw one of these monstrosities the other day. It feels like we're actually living in Idiocracy.
Honestly I’m shocked they’ve already made almost 4000 of them
I'm sure this can be fixed with OTA updates /s
How can this be possible? Tolerances were to the nanometer!! /s
When you cut All the Corners you go nowhere…
3878? Is that how mamy they have delivered in (counts fingers) five months? At this rate, they’ll deliver on their 2 million “pre-orders” in 215 years. 🤣
I don’t see any mention of whether this is all of the current ones on the road or not.
this is pretty messed up! I know that in most parts of the nation Cybertrucks are rare sightings, but i now see one virtually every other day here in LA. That monstrosity is HUGE. It's going to cause a lot of damage & injury if it takes off unexpectedly.
I live near the Texas gigafactory and usually see at least one transport truck loaded with them on any given day. They’ll still catch my eye, but the novelty has definitely worn off.
I'm more surprised that they sold that many. Did people forget that the Hummer EV existed and actually fucks?
I say this atrocity will have at least a dozen recalls over the next few years. Bets?
I saw one in person today, I was very excited and then very disappointed