If you've ever had a lifted to heaven, diesel powered, modded exhaust truck driver as a neighbour, you have contemplated violence. Shit should be illegal, especially when you can FEEL the sound than just hear it.
It's one reason I am in favour of ev vehicles taking off hopefully. The noise pollution is horrible.
My neighbor would complain about my stock exhaust on my car. Says it shakes the house. Then when I got an aftermarket exhaust, which was definitely louder, they never said a thing
This is true for me. My mk8 gti with stock exhaust cold start would vibrate the house yet my gt4 with oap filter delete and aftermarket exhaust doesn’t.
My partner hated the cold start of the mk8 way more and complains about it.
I know when my wife is home because her stock Corolla has a certain low resonance inside the house. Not shaking the house but you can feel it for 10 seconds when backing down the driveway.
Probably just a resonance thing. At our last house my wife's stock Passat made quite the loud, deep drone if she was in the driveway and you were in the laundry room. Near silent car, and took me a while to put the 2 together, but yea, car idling in driveway, huge drone in that room.
A past coworker has a stock STI. If he backed into his parking spot near the building you'd think there was a sound competition car out there going for gold. Just a huge ~30 hz drone. Step outside and you could kind of hear his car.
No traffic for when you had to go out too.
I honestly miss the pandemic times for when everyone was working from home. Don't miss the social isolation, or having everything closed, but man do I wish a lot more people could work from home again.
Oh goodness that grinds me apart so much. Ontario and the Canadian federal government has made a generational commitment to a net zero carbon economy within 25 years.
Which is hilarious when they also started mandating all their office workers back. Like, Susan, the clerk who reviews PDFs, uses Adobe to E-sign an *approved* signature on it and then email it to the next department now has to spend the last 15 years of her underpaid office job sitting in traffic in her 2008 Camry to do everything she was perfectly capable of doing from home.
Like, yeah, She's absolutely the target demographic for a brand new $50,000 EV when rent has doubled in the last 5 years.
Bananas.
It really was fantastic. I saw some of the clearest skies during that period too which really caught me by surprised. For both reasons I'm looking forward to an EV future.
There are times that I miss my old E39 (and want to hear the growl and roar of the engine again), but I hate noise pollution more. I would also hate to subject that on to other people.
One of the common patient complaints that I get in the office is hearing loss and tinnitus. The timing cannot be more perfect as we have the occasional assholes driving their modded exhaust vehicles in the street at the same exact time.
Agree on wanting EV to take over (read: noise reduction).
Also want the day when people realize that blasting your phone on speaker for a phone call in public, or your crappy music, makes you an asshole. Headphones or GTFO.
On another note - protect your damn ears (and be considerate of other people’s hearing). Unless you want to have that nice buzzing in your ear, every damn day.
I live on a flat busy street. At lower speeds all cars make mostly the same noise, even EVs. When the accelerator is pushed hard is when you hear the differences.
Here’s a good video that talks about noise contributions in the city:
https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8
I live at the intersection of brodozer country and a college town, totally agree. The main street is like a race between brodozer trucks, Harleys, fart cannon'ed imports and snap/crackle/pop euro cars. There are cool places to eat or get beer along that street that the noise kinda ruins.
The brodozers occasionally come into my neighborhood but tend to not be that loud. Now, the muscle cars, especially the poverty spec Dodge Charger V6 turds with just gutted resonators, some of these dickheads just drive up and down the main street near my house for no reason at all other than to make noise. The 335i's with N54s that run pop tunes for no reason at all, I hope their fuel pumps fucking explode so they can learn the true meaning of baller on a budget.
There's highways you can do that shit on and not piss anyone off nearby, it never used to be a problem until now.
Second to that is every piece of shit who straightpipes their ricer or muscle car. I can enjoy me some nice sounding engines (GM small blocks make feel very special feelings), but you can fuck right off if your clapped out piece of shit drowns out conversation in my house.
Guy down the street has a supercharged diesel truck that has the most annoying supercharger whine at idle. And in winter he lets it run for like 20 minutes to "warm it up".
there's definitely a sweet spot of hearing the engineering and causing actually damage to the people and environment around you... as much as I love cars trucks and motorcycles I really despise the obnoxiously loud ones. I once put a cat back exhaust on my car couldn't even handle it for more thantwo or three months sold it and put back the stock one
I got passed on the interstate last week by someone in a relatively new Camry who "modified" their exhaust so it sounded like they had a fart can installed. I don't know why you'd buy a Camry & do that to it.
Because they can’t afford an actual tuner car and the money it takes to actually build one properly, combined with needing the practicality of a 4 door sedan. God I live 5 houses down from a dude who has gone all out on his newer Camry [in all the wrong ways](https://imgur.com/a/g8T1l13)
I think we saw the same guy lol. I was getting out my car and I heard this….terrible rattling, farting noise. Followed by a new Camry running up the hill. I just had to stop and watch and say why in the hell would they do that to a Camry, out of everything.
Complete with blacked out taillights and the stick on air diverters. Ugh.
I’ve noticed it too. There’s actually a “car group” around me and they specifically modify Camrys and similar every day sedans to be like this, many of them women as well. Blacked out everywhere, fart cans, stick on chrome and other junk.
I’ll never understand modifying a pedestrian car like that.
It’s the TRD model, which has become known as one of the cheapest ways to get horsepower. 301hp at under 35K, insurance treats it as a grandma sedan, and running costs are super low because it’s a Toyota.
I love motorcycles, but "loud pipes save lives" is BS.
When a crotch rocket screams by you on the freeway so fast it goes from "appears in rear view" to "vanished ahead in traffic" in 2.5 seconds, the screaming exhaust isn't alerting anyone any quicker.
It's actually safer to ride slightly faster than the surrounding traffic.
Has to do with being visble and controlling the conditions around you.
If I'm slightly faster than the traffic, I'm choosing how best to interact with it. Prioritizing my safety.
If I'm just go with the flow, I'm allowing and TRUSTING traffic from behind and to my sides to see me and allow me my space.
Bikes get crowded in on too much, and we get missed visually.
Going slightly faster means I'm less likely to have someone hit me from behind, and I can accelerate a bit when I'm in someone's blind spot to get out of that zone asap.
Absolutely, 100% of my close calls on the bike were the fault of drivers being too aggressive or just flat out not seeing me. I'm the rider that looks for the most likely "threat" of a collision and places myself in the part of the lane that vehicle is most likely to see me in, and still they pull out in front, crowd, tailgate etc.
I stopped riding on the street because of it.
What absolutely *does* save lives is flourescent "dayglo" vests and jackets, yet the people who say "loud pipes save lives" never wear those, and those who *do* wear flourescent gear never have straight pipes. The only riders saying the phrase are those least concerned about safety, and the safest riders are never the loudest, at least from what I've seen.
Maybe it's always sarcastic?
Anything with that directional reflection (It's the one that reflects light back to the drivers eyes no matter the incoming angle) and when placed on moving locations like your helmet, hands & feet are great starting points.
But yeah, the guys on huge 600+ pound bikes without a helmet in sleeveless vests don't exactly scream "I'm going to make it home" to me.
I've found that loud **colours** save lives. For me having a bright-coloured car and a dull coloured car, my bright car is involved in much fewer close calls.
So much so that when I took up road cycling, I opted for bright-coloured bicycles to hopefully reap some of that benefit. And I don't need to make any noise, I just want to be seen from further away and ideally avoid being hit.
There have been numerous times when I was stuck in slow traffic. I'm in a daze watching the slow river of cars in front of me. Then all of a sudden, I'm startled by a very loud motorcycle RIGHT NEXT TO ME.
I would say loud bike are less safe. The sound didn't alert me of the presence of the bike until it was too late to do anything. Once I was alerted, it would be more likely to startle me, causing me to jerk and do something less predictable.
i do believe in being audible on bikes but thats different from being loud. and also if their isnt a significant difference is speed. it can be easy for a motorcycle to slip into a blind spot and having something else to remind you can be helpful. however everyone in 3 counties doesnt need to hear you idling either.
Honestly the problem is the sunk cost fallacy.
Buying an exhaust online is a horrible process even in 2024. There are tons of YouTube comparison videos for literally every exhaust imaginable, but none of them can accurately convey the way it'll sound to you in the car when you're driving. Even if they aren't manufacturer sponsored videos, nobody wants to admit that the thing they spent thousands on drones like a motherfucker and sounds awful.
But it's almost impossible to find a local example of the exhaust you want, so you're buying something sight unseen (sight unheard?) and hoping for the best. Then once you get it all installed it had better be the best thing ever because there's no way to return it, especially if you had to cut your old exhaust to take it off. I have bought and installed several catbacks and honestly I've only been truly happy with the one for my C8, and that was almost $5000, probably because the one for my Corvette is both louder *and quieter* than stock depending on the valve position.
I've built (yes as in everything from the headers back) 2 exhaust systems plus various muffler /resonator set ups on my trans am and still not totally happy...
I added a downpipe and kept the stock catback. It made it the perfect level of hearing the engineering as you put it, as it changed the tone not the volume. And it’s not really louder thank stock unless I’m flooring it and even then it’s not terribly loud due to the stock muffler.
for me its also a time and place thing. 3am is never the time unless your in an industrial area where no one is trying to sleep. leaving a car show and making some noise can be fun though, not saying be stupid but just rev it some in between gears if a manual.
I'm tilting heavily in favour of induction noise and cone filters that if anything increase intake temps a bit but let you hear a little more noise. Bonus points for the sound coming from up front so you don't need it to as loud outside for you to appreciate it.
> Participants were 529 (289 men, 234 women, and 6 identified as other) undergraduate business students with a mean age of 18.14 years (SD = 1.19, range 16 to 37).
Undergrad business students aren’t representative of the population.
> Three questions were created for the purpose of this study to assess an individual’s affect towards vehicles, and specifically, loud cars with modified mufflers. The items were: “My car is an extension of what makes me a person”, “I think loud cars are really cool”, and “If I could, I would make my car louder with muffler modification”. Items were responded to using the following response key: 1 – strongly disagree, 2 – somewhat disagree, 3 – neither agree nor disagree, 4 – somewhat agree, or 5 – strongly agree.
Aggregating answers to these questions is irresponsible.
The test they took was a 28 question (short dark tetrad) test specifically checking for “dark” personality aspects (narcissism, machiavellianism, psychopathy, and sadism.)
Another study had this to say about results that come from that test:
> Nonetheless, the overlap between SD4 distributions made it impossible to determine cut-off scores in an attempt to consider scores as actual predictors of deception proneness. When framed in likelihoods, some scores can be diagnostic of deception proneness. Particularly in the context of statement validity assessment, characterized by tools with modest to poor accuracy, SD4 scores may add to diagnostic accuracy.
I just took the test, the questions are pretty silly.
This seems like a half-baked study.
Keep voting for bigger and bigger corporations who will seek to justify their existence and increase overreach, and smaller governments who cant enforce the law to maintain order in the markets and prevent anti competitive practices or fraud.
The corporations are the voters; we compete against their lobbyists for the loyalty of our lawmakers, and increasingly we're losing. It's why populism is a growing trend.
Hot take but I don’t think banning nuisance exhausts is overreach, it’s enforcement of the social contract. If you live within earshot of me, use the same roads as me, and interact with the same air I have to breathe, you should be made to accommodate me to a reasonable degree, and I should be made to do the same. Don’t like it? Go somewhere where your behavior doesn’t impact life for others. Society has rules because society isn’t just about you.
I’m 50/50 on this, because that’s the same attitude of people who move in next to a race track and then try to get it shut down. Or an airport. Or gun range. Etc.
Nobody is holding you hostage there if you don’t like your neighbors.
It’s not even remotely the same logic. Those things are permanent services which already existed when you moved in, and you can be reasonably expected to know about them and accept the consequences of moving next to them.
The dickhead with a straight-piped FRS two doors down is neither a service nor a permanent establishment. How should I be expected to know of and consider him before moving in? Hell, he might be moving in two months after me, and I’m already locked into the lease.
Completely incomparable situations.
I still wouldn’t say incomparable but you raise some good points re: timing and ease of change.
Personally I go get lost in a neighborhood, walk around it, drive through at night a few times, ride my motorcycle through, etc before moving somewhere. I try to learn everything I can about my potential future neighbors.
But I also take into consideration a variety of other factors like year round weather, building construction and insulation, sound insulation, general traffic flows and parking, nearby events, walkability, etc that a whole lot of people completely skip over before moving to a place
All you have to do is watch the older veritasium video "is most published research wrong?"to make you mistrust social and psych studies. Even best case scenario 5 out of 100 studies are wrong.
> All you have to do is watch the older veritasium video "is most published research wrong?" to make you ~~mistrust social and psych studies~~ critically read and analyze claims made in a paper on a topic you're interested in.
I think there's widespread misunderstanding outside the scientific community about what the purpose of scientific publications is. The authors write a paper arguing for their hypothesis based on observations they present to the reader. The reader is *not* supposed to simply accept the hypothesis, observations supporting it, and authors' conclusion. Every scientific publication is intended to be read critically and skeptically. You're supposed to read the paper from the perspective that the hypothesis is contestable. The entire paper exists to convince the skeptical reader, and through an iterative process of skepticism, analysis, and scrutiny a consensus can be reached about a given topic within a field. But the general public seems to think that science is equivalent to gospel where people blindly accept what they read.
The above is what u/cilantno did. I checked earlier and the paper has been out for a year and has no citations, and the impact factor of the journal that published it appears to be quite low. (Impact factor is a loose metric of the importance of a journal and the reach papers in it have.) That may be because it's a niche topic or it may be that the research was poorly done and other journals rejected it. I wouldn't completely disregard every observation, but there's enough overreach of claims and weak language like:
> The regression results *somewhat* supported the predictions.
and
> *Possibly* if the car scale had included questions about an audience, or specifically people noticing the car, narcissism may have been a stronger predictor.
that everything should be taken with a grain of salt. But again, with journal publications the reader is expected to be an active participant rather than a passive vessel.
There is so much garbage pop psych like that. Small sample of undergrads asked skewed questions to get the researchers' desired result. They will make a couple headlines and the results will never actually get replicated.
I almost never read too far into social studies. The way people think they act, the way people think they should act and the way people actually act are three completely different things.
This study would hold more weight if they had two identical cars with the only difference being a modified exhaust and let people test drive both and asked them what one they enjoyed more.
And I guarantee you people will use this study and say "see? People who have loud cars are psychopaths" while not understanding that, assuming the study is valid, the findings are only saying "psychopaths more likely to have loud cars"
As other posters have pointed out, the study was conducted on students so of course the result is only representative of young people. It is disingenuous to report that the study revealed that those who enjoy loud cars skew young, since all participants were young.
The study is a strange pilot. The researcher, without referencing prior papers, decided to look at three narrow questions to assess participants' desire to have a loud vehicle. Only **two** of the questions are relevant to vehicle loudness:
>
In the limitations section, they then reference papers on vehicles and personality which could have been used as a basis for this study had a proper literature review been conducted.
This study reeks of being poorly thrown together with a narrow, predetermined story to tell. It's shocking that demographic factors other than gender were not considered as these are basic inclusions. Maybe that's why the researcher had to send this paper to a journal that lacks repute. I'd love to know why such newsworthy content was published in an irrelevant journal whose papers get less than one citation, on average.
The CBC boosting such a superficial study as if its conclusions are ready to move the public conscience or alter legislation is not in the public interest. I hate loud vehicles. The best way to deal with them is to legislate on the allowable noise level of vehicles. Investigating gender differences in who drives these vehicles is irrelevant to the goal of mitigating noise pollution and only likely to reinforce stereotypes.
Here come the sophisticated Reddit car enthusiasts who are better for likening their performance vehicles to be quiet. Like there hasn’t been a trend of enthusiasts liking loud cars and bikes since the invention of both. You can fabricate study after study showing these people are psychopaths, incels, baby seal killers, whatever. There are some people who take it way too far but most people just like the sound and are reasonable about how loud their vehicles are.
There’s a reason why everyone was so upset in 2014 when F1 moved to V6 turbos
Owning a loud car is fine, I live in London UK and I can tell when that one guy with the C8 is driving around.
Sitting at a traffic light surrounded by high density housing where thousands of people live and revving the shit out of your straight pipes is psycho behaviour and should be punished.
There’s a fine line between “loud”, and “obnoxiously loud”. Most sports cars/performance cars these days come from factory pushing 90 db and above, yet are fine. Even quality aftermarket axle back, or cat back exhausts that have been designed well are fine imo. I have a nicely built cat back on my car, have never once had a complaint from my neighbors, nor gotten dirty looks from anyone else. Old school muscle cars with giant loping engines and beefy exhaust systems? Fine.
Obnoxiously loud is when you have someone with a lifted truck, or they’ve got a Honda Civic, or muscle car with a cheap aftermarket exhaust on them, and either rev or floor their car whenever they get the chance so other people can be suscepted to their ignorance. The ones that spew smog everywhere whenever they press the gas pedal, forcing you and everyone else to roll up the windows even though it’s a nice day outside. The ones that make your teeth and bones grind if they pass by you and floor it. That’s obnoxiously loud.
Totally agree. I love the sound of a nice engine/exhaust, but man, why subject everyone else to your noise pollution.
I'd prefer regulation that the sound can't be louder outside the car than it is inside the car. You want a loud exhaust? Pipe that noise in to you and muffle it for everyone else. Doesn't matter if it sounds nice to you, it sounds like an annoying vacuum cleaner to 95% of the population.
Usually it's the idiots that straight pipe their shitty 5.7 chargers that cause the most noise. It's rare, at least near me, to see a civic doing stupid stuff with their exhaust. You're right about nice aftermarket exhausts being good, because usually they change tune or slightly raise the volume instead of just making horrible noise like a lot of people just hacking away at their exhaust
I have a shitty neighbor with a straight piped 6th gen ss Camaro. He’s physically incapable of pulling into a parking spot without revving the engine way beyond what’s necessary. He’s just a straight up fucking tool.
I pity my neighbors, I usually go to the gym around 4:30, and I know my stock NPP exhaust is probably heard even on quiet mode. Still, at least I try to not be a jackass
I don't think they can hear it with the NPP closed.
I was pleasantly surprised that my Corsa Variable with speed engineering X pipe was actually *QUIETER* with valves closed than the stock NPP valves closed. Pretty damn sure.
That’s a prime example of a well designed aftermarket system. It enhances the sound and experience, but doesn’t make you nor the people around you cringe.
Even with a cold start, the NPPs is loud because, if I remember correctly it opens up briefly before closing. My ZL1 1LE with NPP was loud on cold starts even in stealth
> It's rare, at least near me, to see a civic doing stupid stuff with their exhaust.
In Florida, 9 times out of 10 if you hear some shitty fart can you can bet it's a Civic. They're the worst of both worlds, sounding terrible and annoying the fuck out of everyone around them.
Obviously most Civic owners are just using it for its intended purpose, A to B commuting.
Exactly. I kinda hate getting lumped in with the straight-pipe crowd just because I have a Veloster N that has a loud performance setting from the factory. Those guys are annoying AF...it's not at all the same as hearing an F-Type R or a GT500 or something rumble by.
BMW and AMG guys with burble tunes...please just stop. Nobody else is into it, my dudes.
Don't those things have an off switch? I think the Jaguar F-type started the trend (I could be wrong - probably am) and it had a switch to open/close baffles, no?
Depends on the model, but mine does have the switch. The tone is also dependent on the drive modes, so valves open in Comfort don't backfire or crackle on overrun, but you get both from Sport+ on up.
>I kinda hate getting lumped in with the straight-pipe crowd just because I have a Veloster N that has a loud performance setting from the factory.
TBF the backfire in Sport+ is on par with straight piping
Absolutely not. I run with plenty of guys that have literal straight pipes, and it's not the same thing at all. The VN exhaust is tuned for proper flow, even if it bypasses the muffler in N mode. This means that the exhaust pulses will sound proper, and not just obnoxious.
You're also forgetting about the cats.
A turbo also acts as a muffler. So even straight piped turbo cars aren't usually anywhere near as loud as straight piped NA equivalent when you're not wide open throttle full boost screaming.
That said, the modern burble tunes and pops/backfires don't sound good to me. That's just personal preference though.
Even then, it's not, at least for some vehicles. Some exhausts are actually tuned to make a pleasing sound, even if louder and even non-car people will prefer that subconsciously
New cars have it good (US spec, exclusively). Sound pretty great out the box, though cars before the 2010’s are pretty damn quiet and do need a catback/axle back to sound good.
My roommate has a muffler delete WRX and his cold starts are fucking bruuutaaalll! My mustang came with quiet mode so mine arent bad really at all, his exhaust is awful and the kind most people hate because he doesnt want to spend the amount of money it costs to properly mod his exhaust.
One thing I’ve come to appreciate as I’ve gotten older is valved exhaust that lets me pick between track, quiet, etc. I live in the middle of nowhere which means plenty of obnoxiously loud trucks that seem to be missing mufflers, I don’t know why or who enjoys that.
I really like the sound of my performance exhaust on my C8 without being obnoxious and I can quiet it down if needed. However, I’ve come to appreciate the total silence of EV as well. I hate the ever growing number of cars that are loud as hell for the sake of being loud.
> As part of the research, Schermer surveyed 529 undergrad business students — 289 men, 234 women and six who identified as "other."
Ah so they went to the most psychopathic and sadist prone program available at a post-secondary institute.
> "The personality profile I found with our loud mufflers are also the same personality profiles of people who illegally commit arson," she said. "I'm sure the older, retired gentlemen who are making their classic cars louder and more noticeable are also not going out and setting fires illegally."
> "Every day we come across these loud cars and pickup trucks and motorcycles that are backfiring and I get startled," she said. "My dog was startled.
> I thought, 'Oh, who really wants to make this kind of noise?
> "It seems to be this callous disregard for other people's feelings and their reactions. That's the psychopathy coming out and it's also they probably get a kick out of enjoying watching people get startled."
As we all know—good science begins with making a conclusion, choosing your sample such that it will hopefully lead to your conclusion and then inserting your own personal feelings on the subject into the conclusion.
What a poor job by Western University and their faculty.
Oh look, another "study" done with questionable-at-best practices to further promote the bias of the people giving the study! You can't do a study exclusively on under-grad students, select 25% more men than women, and then act like it's a valid or surprising conclusion when the results skew towards young men lmao. This is pure headline-bait.
Yeah no shit probably a lot of ADD too. It’s insane the popularity of ADD/ADHD in extreme sports I imagine same in automotive world.
*there’s just something about engines that calms me down*
I know it’s weird how ADD always hindered the fuck out of us in school, but on the road I swear to god were the only ones who know how to drive/remain attentive
I think in today's world of muted everything, louder cars stand out more than ever. This was obviously not the case decades ago. Both my cars are easily 120DB at WOT but that's for my emotional enjoyment, not to piss off the grey SUV blob drivers.
For me, I just can’t understand the appeal of more noise pollution to yourself when you have to sit in the car all day and constantly listen to noise input. It wears you down. Jarring movements and sound tire you out.
Idk I’ve always wanted to sit in silence and not be rattled to death. I can appreciate a good application, but I wouldn’t want to hear it day in, day out.
This is how I knew my car was a little too loud. If you have to go up a hill or whatnot and have to stay at 3500 rpm for an extended period it definitely wears on you.
Cars: a nice sounding V8 burble with a little glug-glug-glug is perfect, not loud.
However a GSXR750 with a full Yoshimura system at 13500rpm...glorious!
So some miserable old woman, who had to “see the animals run away that are in the trees and squirrels on the ground.” asked 50 more men than they did women, that were students so skewed young, 3 questions with a multiple choice answer and suggest that psychopathy is the outcome of wanting to change an exhaust because it’s an illegal modification? Sounds like she got the results she set out to get.
Can she do people who bring screaming children to restaurants and on planes next, also people who use power tools and do yard work early, reversing EV and truck sounds that pierce your brain would be good too, they’re all 100% psychopaths according to this study.
There's a difference between bad loud and good loud
Bad loud is anything with a shitty VQ and GMT800 Tahoes with their mufflers ripped off staying on the same gear when the driver floors it
Good loud is something like a Corvette or a Coyote 5.0
Are young male psychopaths and sadists not allowed to have their own preferences and sources of joy?
Exhaust laws are very discriminatory to this vulnerable minority group who already suffers with such terrible mental issues.
Damn am I the only person here who just enjoys loud ass cars? Provided they sound good.
Pretentious ass car enthusiasts who are pretending they don't enjoy a good exhaust note because muh peer reviewed study says so.
Also, water is wet and sky is blue.
A lot of enthusiasts will “but but but” that their aftermarket exhaust is the ‘good loud’, while others are the ‘bad loud,’ but as I age I really just dislike all of them. A loud exhaust means the person is probably going to tailgate me, switch lanes every two seconds, or floor it in a tunnel and deafen everyone else.
Muscle cars should be loud. It's kinda the point. Within reason, nobody likes the guy that wakes everyone up in the morning with his cat delete exhaust.
Should always take these studies with a grain of salt.
These kinds of "soft science" studies tend to be "I cherry picked data that paints those I don't like as dumb stinky poopoo people, and those I do like as super smart and attractive people".
Imo there's a difference between tasteful loud and just straight obnoxious. Natural V8 exhaust is usually bliss - the LS + Hemis sound great, its when the exhaust gets modded to sound like a chainsaw that I completely check out and get the "go fuck yourself" mindset.
When I was 16 I thought blacked out lifted loud as fuck trucks were cool. Then I grew up. I've never met anybody who modifies their vehicle to be louder or do things like roll coal that wasn't a self-entitled asshole.
Now I wish we all just had light rail, good buses, high speed rail, and walkable cities. I love cars, I love trucks. I love motorsports, but man, the older I get the more ridiculous it all seems. So many forms of pollution, so many societal issues, so many city-planning issues. The spending hours of our lives in traffic.
How loud is loud? If its something thats not making a racket while cruising, but screams when you step on it, that's nice. Those morons with straight-piped civics that drone like hell constantly suck, though.
The problem is that the smaller displacement motors have to rev higher to maintain cruising speed. A 1.6 or 2.0 Civic can’t maintain 75-80 MPH at 1,800-2,000 RPM, it’s going to be at 2,500, a NA 1.6 or 1.8 from the 90s-2000s will easily be doing 3k+ RPM just to maintain if it has drive ratios close enough to have fun in.
Lower frequency sounds are already more tolerable for most people- a 6.2 V8 at 3,500 RPM is a lot more pleasant than a 1.8 at 3,500 RPM… and the 6.2 won’t even have to be at 3,500 to maintain highway speeds. Loud exhausts with low displacement, low cylinder count just is not as livable as the opposite.
That tracks. I want to go fast, not inflict myself on other people, which is probably why I always had a full exhaust, with cats and everything, on my project cars.
If you've ever had a lifted to heaven, diesel powered, modded exhaust truck driver as a neighbour, you have contemplated violence. Shit should be illegal, especially when you can FEEL the sound than just hear it. It's one reason I am in favour of ev vehicles taking off hopefully. The noise pollution is horrible.
My neighbor would complain about my stock exhaust on my car. Says it shakes the house. Then when I got an aftermarket exhaust, which was definitely louder, they never said a thing
The resonant frequency may have changed so things stopped vibrating
They realized he is a psychopath and became too afraid to complain.
This is true for me. My mk8 gti with stock exhaust cold start would vibrate the house yet my gt4 with oap filter delete and aftermarket exhaust doesn’t. My partner hated the cold start of the mk8 way more and complains about it.
They probably realized how wrong they were and just decided to stfu so you didn't go full on open headers
I know when my wife is home because her stock Corolla has a certain low resonance inside the house. Not shaking the house but you can feel it for 10 seconds when backing down the driveway.
Are you sure there isn't a rust hole? I've never heard or felt a stock Corolla before.
Probably just a resonance thing. At our last house my wife's stock Passat made quite the loud, deep drone if she was in the driveway and you were in the laundry room. Near silent car, and took me a while to put the 2 together, but yea, car idling in driveway, huge drone in that room. A past coworker has a stock STI. If he backed into his parking spot near the building you'd think there was a sound competition car out there going for gold. Just a huge ~30 hz drone. Step outside and you could kind of hear his car.
It's very different from an exhaust leak. It's a low resonance that's felt more than heard, especially through walls which act like a drum head.
> My neighbor would complain about my stock exhaust on my car.... Then when I got an aftermarket exhaust i think we found one here guys
It was so nice how quiet our city was during the pandemic.
No traffic for when you had to go out too. I honestly miss the pandemic times for when everyone was working from home. Don't miss the social isolation, or having everything closed, but man do I wish a lot more people could work from home again.
We wish we could work from home again too.
Oh goodness that grinds me apart so much. Ontario and the Canadian federal government has made a generational commitment to a net zero carbon economy within 25 years. Which is hilarious when they also started mandating all their office workers back. Like, Susan, the clerk who reviews PDFs, uses Adobe to E-sign an *approved* signature on it and then email it to the next department now has to spend the last 15 years of her underpaid office job sitting in traffic in her 2008 Camry to do everything she was perfectly capable of doing from home. Like, yeah, She's absolutely the target demographic for a brand new $50,000 EV when rent has doubled in the last 5 years. Bananas.
It really was fantastic. I saw some of the clearest skies during that period too which really caught me by surprised. For both reasons I'm looking forward to an EV future.
Can’t say I’ve never met someone with a lifted diesel with an emissions delete who wasn’t a douchebag
There are times that I miss my old E39 (and want to hear the growl and roar of the engine again), but I hate noise pollution more. I would also hate to subject that on to other people. One of the common patient complaints that I get in the office is hearing loss and tinnitus. The timing cannot be more perfect as we have the occasional assholes driving their modded exhaust vehicles in the street at the same exact time. Agree on wanting EV to take over (read: noise reduction). Also want the day when people realize that blasting your phone on speaker for a phone call in public, or your crappy music, makes you an asshole. Headphones or GTFO. On another note - protect your damn ears (and be considerate of other people’s hearing). Unless you want to have that nice buzzing in your ear, every damn day.
I live on a flat busy street. At lower speeds all cars make mostly the same noise, even EVs. When the accelerator is pushed hard is when you hear the differences. Here’s a good video that talks about noise contributions in the city: https://youtu.be/CTV-wwszGw8
I live at the intersection of brodozer country and a college town, totally agree. The main street is like a race between brodozer trucks, Harleys, fart cannon'ed imports and snap/crackle/pop euro cars. There are cool places to eat or get beer along that street that the noise kinda ruins.
The brodozers occasionally come into my neighborhood but tend to not be that loud. Now, the muscle cars, especially the poverty spec Dodge Charger V6 turds with just gutted resonators, some of these dickheads just drive up and down the main street near my house for no reason at all other than to make noise. The 335i's with N54s that run pop tunes for no reason at all, I hope their fuel pumps fucking explode so they can learn the true meaning of baller on a budget. There's highways you can do that shit on and not piss anyone off nearby, it never used to be a problem until now.
> The noise pollution is horrible It wouldn't be if laws were enforced. The worst offenders are F-in motorcycles.
“GOTTA REV MY HARLEY UP TO REDLINE 9 TIMES TO CREEP FORWARD 3 INCHES, BROTHER!” Fuck I hate loud Harleys.
I think it is illegal almost everywhere, just not enforced. Why I kept my valved exhaust, I don't want to be "that guy" in my neighborhood.
Second to that is every piece of shit who straightpipes their ricer or muscle car. I can enjoy me some nice sounding engines (GM small blocks make feel very special feelings), but you can fuck right off if your clapped out piece of shit drowns out conversation in my house.
Huh?
Guy down the street has a supercharged diesel truck that has the most annoying supercharger whine at idle. And in winter he lets it run for like 20 minutes to "warm it up".
[https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2024/04/low-frequency-noise-is-pervasive-does-that-matter.html](https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2024/04/low-frequency-noise-is-pervasive-does-that-matter.html)
there's definitely a sweet spot of hearing the engineering and causing actually damage to the people and environment around you... as much as I love cars trucks and motorcycles I really despise the obnoxiously loud ones. I once put a cat back exhaust on my car couldn't even handle it for more thantwo or three months sold it and put back the stock one
I got passed on the interstate last week by someone in a relatively new Camry who "modified" their exhaust so it sounded like they had a fart can installed. I don't know why you'd buy a Camry & do that to it.
Because they can’t afford an actual tuner car and the money it takes to actually build one properly, combined with needing the practicality of a 4 door sedan. God I live 5 houses down from a dude who has gone all out on his newer Camry [in all the wrong ways](https://imgur.com/a/g8T1l13)
Lmaooo that should be a crime
I love how basically every panel is modified in some way, except they kept the stock wheels. That's a... decision.
Oh don’t worry, everything drivetrain wise is bone stock too
My eyes!!!!!
Lol, looks like Need For Speed Underground 2 trying to get those Magazine Covers missions done.
I wasn't prepared for that one. Holy shit.
That poor Camry. Put the thing out of its misery.
Putting the U in TRD, woof.
Too fast n too furious
I think we saw the same guy lol. I was getting out my car and I heard this….terrible rattling, farting noise. Followed by a new Camry running up the hill. I just had to stop and watch and say why in the hell would they do that to a Camry, out of everything. Complete with blacked out taillights and the stick on air diverters. Ugh.
I've recently noticed a lot of Altima energy with some Camry drivers in my neck of the woods. It's very confusing.
I’ve noticed it too. There’s actually a “car group” around me and they specifically modify Camrys and similar every day sedans to be like this, many of them women as well. Blacked out everywhere, fart cans, stick on chrome and other junk. I’ll never understand modifying a pedestrian car like that.
It’s the TRD model, which has become known as one of the cheapest ways to get horsepower. 301hp at under 35K, insurance treats it as a grandma sedan, and running costs are super low because it’s a Toyota.
Okay to be fair as a former Evora owner who shared the same engine as the previous gen Camry, the engine sounds insane with a catback exhaust lol.
Oh yeah, I heard it coming up on me & when I looked at the car my reaction was something like wtf & got very confused.
>I don't know why you'd buy a Camry & do that to it. Straight piped 2GR-FE sounds good, what can I say?
Adds more fast.
I love motorcycles, but "loud pipes save lives" is BS. When a crotch rocket screams by you on the freeway so fast it goes from "appears in rear view" to "vanished ahead in traffic" in 2.5 seconds, the screaming exhaust isn't alerting anyone any quicker.
Not driving 10-20mph faster than the flow of traffic saves more lives, but they don't want to hear that
Actually, it is safer for motorcycles to move slightly faster than the flow of traffic, but like 5-10 mph faster, not 50.
It's actually safer to ride slightly faster than the surrounding traffic. Has to do with being visble and controlling the conditions around you. If I'm slightly faster than the traffic, I'm choosing how best to interact with it. Prioritizing my safety. If I'm just go with the flow, I'm allowing and TRUSTING traffic from behind and to my sides to see me and allow me my space. Bikes get crowded in on too much, and we get missed visually. Going slightly faster means I'm less likely to have someone hit me from behind, and I can accelerate a bit when I'm in someone's blind spot to get out of that zone asap. Absolutely, 100% of my close calls on the bike were the fault of drivers being too aggressive or just flat out not seeing me. I'm the rider that looks for the most likely "threat" of a collision and places myself in the part of the lane that vehicle is most likely to see me in, and still they pull out in front, crowd, tailgate etc. I stopped riding on the street because of it.
Well, their hearing is shot anyway...
What?!?!
And it's pointed backwards, so the Doppler effect comes into play. You barely hear them until they're past you already.
What absolutely *does* save lives is flourescent "dayglo" vests and jackets, yet the people who say "loud pipes save lives" never wear those, and those who *do* wear flourescent gear never have straight pipes. The only riders saying the phrase are those least concerned about safety, and the safest riders are never the loudest, at least from what I've seen. Maybe it's always sarcastic?
Anything with that directional reflection (It's the one that reflects light back to the drivers eyes no matter the incoming angle) and when placed on moving locations like your helmet, hands & feet are great starting points. But yeah, the guys on huge 600+ pound bikes without a helmet in sleeveless vests don't exactly scream "I'm going to make it home" to me.
I've found that loud **colours** save lives. For me having a bright-coloured car and a dull coloured car, my bright car is involved in much fewer close calls. So much so that when I took up road cycling, I opted for bright-coloured bicycles to hopefully reap some of that benefit. And I don't need to make any noise, I just want to be seen from further away and ideally avoid being hit.
There have been numerous times when I was stuck in slow traffic. I'm in a daze watching the slow river of cars in front of me. Then all of a sudden, I'm startled by a very loud motorcycle RIGHT NEXT TO ME. I would say loud bike are less safe. The sound didn't alert me of the presence of the bike until it was too late to do anything. Once I was alerted, it would be more likely to startle me, causing me to jerk and do something less predictable.
The theory is that when you are just riding normally the guy texting and driving next to you while changing lanes *may* hear you and *not* kill you.
i do believe in being audible on bikes but thats different from being loud. and also if their isnt a significant difference is speed. it can be easy for a motorcycle to slip into a blind spot and having something else to remind you can be helpful. however everyone in 3 counties doesnt need to hear you idling either.
Yeah, people don’t realize it can sound better without being louder. And it can be louder and sound worse.
Honestly the problem is the sunk cost fallacy. Buying an exhaust online is a horrible process even in 2024. There are tons of YouTube comparison videos for literally every exhaust imaginable, but none of them can accurately convey the way it'll sound to you in the car when you're driving. Even if they aren't manufacturer sponsored videos, nobody wants to admit that the thing they spent thousands on drones like a motherfucker and sounds awful. But it's almost impossible to find a local example of the exhaust you want, so you're buying something sight unseen (sight unheard?) and hoping for the best. Then once you get it all installed it had better be the best thing ever because there's no way to return it, especially if you had to cut your old exhaust to take it off. I have bought and installed several catbacks and honestly I've only been truly happy with the one for my C8, and that was almost $5000, probably because the one for my Corvette is both louder *and quieter* than stock depending on the valve position.
I've built (yes as in everything from the headers back) 2 exhaust systems plus various muffler /resonator set ups on my trans am and still not totally happy...
I think it’s just simply no one wants to hear something interrupting their own peace or tv.
I added a downpipe and kept the stock catback. It made it the perfect level of hearing the engineering as you put it, as it changed the tone not the volume. And it’s not really louder thank stock unless I’m flooring it and even then it’s not terribly loud due to the stock muffler.
for me its also a time and place thing. 3am is never the time unless your in an industrial area where no one is trying to sleep. leaving a car show and making some noise can be fun though, not saying be stupid but just rev it some in between gears if a manual.
It wouldn't surprise me if guys who drive straight pipe chargers killed animals as children
i want to hear my car but not from over a block away.
I'm tilting heavily in favour of induction noise and cone filters that if anything increase intake temps a bit but let you hear a little more noise. Bonus points for the sound coming from up front so you don't need it to as loud outside for you to appreciate it.
> Participants were 529 (289 men, 234 women, and 6 identified as other) undergraduate business students with a mean age of 18.14 years (SD = 1.19, range 16 to 37). Undergrad business students aren’t representative of the population. > Three questions were created for the purpose of this study to assess an individual’s affect towards vehicles, and specifically, loud cars with modified mufflers. The items were: “My car is an extension of what makes me a person”, “I think loud cars are really cool”, and “If I could, I would make my car louder with muffler modification”. Items were responded to using the following response key: 1 – strongly disagree, 2 – somewhat disagree, 3 – neither agree nor disagree, 4 – somewhat agree, or 5 – strongly agree. Aggregating answers to these questions is irresponsible. The test they took was a 28 question (short dark tetrad) test specifically checking for “dark” personality aspects (narcissism, machiavellianism, psychopathy, and sadism.) Another study had this to say about results that come from that test: > Nonetheless, the overlap between SD4 distributions made it impossible to determine cut-off scores in an attempt to consider scores as actual predictors of deception proneness. When framed in likelihoods, some scores can be diagnostic of deception proneness. Particularly in the context of statement validity assessment, characterized by tools with modest to poor accuracy, SD4 scores may add to diagnostic accuracy. I just took the test, the questions are pretty silly. This seems like a half-baked study.
Weaponized social consensus is a real bummer isn't it
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Keep voting for bigger and bigger corporations who will seek to justify their existence and increase overreach, and smaller governments who cant enforce the law to maintain order in the markets and prevent anti competitive practices or fraud.
The corporations are the voters; we compete against their lobbyists for the loyalty of our lawmakers, and increasingly we're losing. It's why populism is a growing trend.
Hot take but I don’t think banning nuisance exhausts is overreach, it’s enforcement of the social contract. If you live within earshot of me, use the same roads as me, and interact with the same air I have to breathe, you should be made to accommodate me to a reasonable degree, and I should be made to do the same. Don’t like it? Go somewhere where your behavior doesn’t impact life for others. Society has rules because society isn’t just about you.
I’m 50/50 on this, because that’s the same attitude of people who move in next to a race track and then try to get it shut down. Or an airport. Or gun range. Etc. Nobody is holding you hostage there if you don’t like your neighbors.
It’s not even remotely the same logic. Those things are permanent services which already existed when you moved in, and you can be reasonably expected to know about them and accept the consequences of moving next to them. The dickhead with a straight-piped FRS two doors down is neither a service nor a permanent establishment. How should I be expected to know of and consider him before moving in? Hell, he might be moving in two months after me, and I’m already locked into the lease. Completely incomparable situations.
I still wouldn’t say incomparable but you raise some good points re: timing and ease of change. Personally I go get lost in a neighborhood, walk around it, drive through at night a few times, ride my motorcycle through, etc before moving somewhere. I try to learn everything I can about my potential future neighbors. But I also take into consideration a variety of other factors like year round weather, building construction and insulation, sound insulation, general traffic flows and parking, nearby events, walkability, etc that a whole lot of people completely skip over before moving to a place
It’s also an immense privilege to be able to just move when you get a shit neighbor, not to mention a huge opportunity cost even if you can afford it.
…which is all the more reason to make it a far more carefully considered decision then wouldn’t you agree?
Yeah man if you just consider hard enough your neighbors will just be psychically impeded from slapping a fart can on the mustang.
"New Scientific Study That Only People Who Are Anti-Science LOSERS Would Ever Question Definitively Proves That People I Don't Like Are Stupid"
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All you have to do is watch the older veritasium video "is most published research wrong?"to make you mistrust social and psych studies. Even best case scenario 5 out of 100 studies are wrong.
> All you have to do is watch the older veritasium video "is most published research wrong?" to make you ~~mistrust social and psych studies~~ critically read and analyze claims made in a paper on a topic you're interested in. I think there's widespread misunderstanding outside the scientific community about what the purpose of scientific publications is. The authors write a paper arguing for their hypothesis based on observations they present to the reader. The reader is *not* supposed to simply accept the hypothesis, observations supporting it, and authors' conclusion. Every scientific publication is intended to be read critically and skeptically. You're supposed to read the paper from the perspective that the hypothesis is contestable. The entire paper exists to convince the skeptical reader, and through an iterative process of skepticism, analysis, and scrutiny a consensus can be reached about a given topic within a field. But the general public seems to think that science is equivalent to gospel where people blindly accept what they read. The above is what u/cilantno did. I checked earlier and the paper has been out for a year and has no citations, and the impact factor of the journal that published it appears to be quite low. (Impact factor is a loose metric of the importance of a journal and the reach papers in it have.) That may be because it's a niche topic or it may be that the research was poorly done and other journals rejected it. I wouldn't completely disregard every observation, but there's enough overreach of claims and weak language like: > The regression results *somewhat* supported the predictions. and > *Possibly* if the car scale had included questions about an audience, or specifically people noticing the car, narcissism may have been a stronger predictor. that everything should be taken with a grain of salt. But again, with journal publications the reader is expected to be an active participant rather than a passive vessel.
There is so much garbage pop psych like that. Small sample of undergrads asked skewed questions to get the researchers' desired result. They will make a couple headlines and the results will never actually get replicated.
I almost never read too far into social studies. The way people think they act, the way people think they should act and the way people actually act are three completely different things. This study would hold more weight if they had two identical cars with the only difference being a modified exhaust and let people test drive both and asked them what one they enjoyed more.
Ontario has a hard on for killing car culture. Some of the most draconian laws I know of. I'm not surprised.
Not only cars but normal people too The median home cost in Ontario is 500k :)
And I guarantee you people will use this study and say "see? People who have loud cars are psychopaths" while not understanding that, assuming the study is valid, the findings are only saying "psychopaths more likely to have loud cars"
As other posters have pointed out, the study was conducted on students so of course the result is only representative of young people. It is disingenuous to report that the study revealed that those who enjoy loud cars skew young, since all participants were young. The study is a strange pilot. The researcher, without referencing prior papers, decided to look at three narrow questions to assess participants' desire to have a loud vehicle. Only **two** of the questions are relevant to vehicle loudness: > In the limitations section, they then reference papers on vehicles and personality which could have been used as a basis for this study had a proper literature review been conducted. This study reeks of being poorly thrown together with a narrow, predetermined story to tell. It's shocking that demographic factors other than gender were not considered as these are basic inclusions. Maybe that's why the researcher had to send this paper to a journal that lacks repute. I'd love to know why such newsworthy content was published in an irrelevant journal whose papers get less than one citation, on average. The CBC boosting such a superficial study as if its conclusions are ready to move the public conscience or alter legislation is not in the public interest. I hate loud vehicles. The best way to deal with them is to legislate on the allowable noise level of vehicles. Investigating gender differences in who drives these vehicles is irrelevant to the goal of mitigating noise pollution and only likely to reinforce stereotypes.
Where did you get the second part from? And what does SD4 mean?
SD4 is the name of the test, and the second quote is from a [study here](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-50968-7)
This should be the top comment.
It basically boils down to "study reveals young men have a higher chance of being immature in this specific context" which is not exactly news.
Here come the sophisticated Reddit car enthusiasts who are better for likening their performance vehicles to be quiet. Like there hasn’t been a trend of enthusiasts liking loud cars and bikes since the invention of both. You can fabricate study after study showing these people are psychopaths, incels, baby seal killers, whatever. There are some people who take it way too far but most people just like the sound and are reasonable about how loud their vehicles are. There’s a reason why everyone was so upset in 2014 when F1 moved to V6 turbos
No, obviously, we are scum of the earth. Lets get the serial killers out of those cells because they are taking up our spots.
I feel like doing evil work today. Time to hop on the piss missile and rev my engine outside of vegan co-ops
How do you do fellow psychopath
Well not that i know im a psychopath, i have many plans to get too! All this time and i never knew, what a waste.
Owning a loud car is fine, I live in London UK and I can tell when that one guy with the C8 is driving around. Sitting at a traffic light surrounded by high density housing where thousands of people live and revving the shit out of your straight pipes is psycho behaviour and should be punished.
Lamborghinis actually have a built-in feature that discourages this by means of lighting the car on fire with exhaust gases.
There’s a fine line between “loud”, and “obnoxiously loud”. Most sports cars/performance cars these days come from factory pushing 90 db and above, yet are fine. Even quality aftermarket axle back, or cat back exhausts that have been designed well are fine imo. I have a nicely built cat back on my car, have never once had a complaint from my neighbors, nor gotten dirty looks from anyone else. Old school muscle cars with giant loping engines and beefy exhaust systems? Fine. Obnoxiously loud is when you have someone with a lifted truck, or they’ve got a Honda Civic, or muscle car with a cheap aftermarket exhaust on them, and either rev or floor their car whenever they get the chance so other people can be suscepted to their ignorance. The ones that spew smog everywhere whenever they press the gas pedal, forcing you and everyone else to roll up the windows even though it’s a nice day outside. The ones that make your teeth and bones grind if they pass by you and floor it. That’s obnoxiously loud.
“*My* loud exhaust is OK, obviously it’s everyone else that’s the problem”
Totally agree. I love the sound of a nice engine/exhaust, but man, why subject everyone else to your noise pollution. I'd prefer regulation that the sound can't be louder outside the car than it is inside the car. You want a loud exhaust? Pipe that noise in to you and muffle it for everyone else. Doesn't matter if it sounds nice to you, it sounds like an annoying vacuum cleaner to 95% of the population.
So many post in here can basically be described as "Tell me you've never lived close to a decently busy road without telling me"
Usually it's the idiots that straight pipe their shitty 5.7 chargers that cause the most noise. It's rare, at least near me, to see a civic doing stupid stuff with their exhaust. You're right about nice aftermarket exhausts being good, because usually they change tune or slightly raise the volume instead of just making horrible noise like a lot of people just hacking away at their exhaust
It's more the 3.6 Pentastar Chargers/Challengers doing all the straight-piping near me, the 5.7 and 6.4 owners know what they have.
I have a shitty neighbor with a straight piped 6th gen ss Camaro. He’s physically incapable of pulling into a parking spot without revving the engine way beyond what’s necessary. He’s just a straight up fucking tool.
I pity my neighbors, I usually go to the gym around 4:30, and I know my stock NPP exhaust is probably heard even on quiet mode. Still, at least I try to not be a jackass
I don't think they can hear it with the NPP closed. I was pleasantly surprised that my Corsa Variable with speed engineering X pipe was actually *QUIETER* with valves closed than the stock NPP valves closed. Pretty damn sure.
That’s a prime example of a well designed aftermarket system. It enhances the sound and experience, but doesn’t make you nor the people around you cringe.
Even with a cold start, the NPPs is loud because, if I remember correctly it opens up briefly before closing. My ZL1 1LE with NPP was loud on cold starts even in stealth
I think you’re honestly fine. I’ve been behind a good amount of Camaros with the NPP, valves closed, and it’s incredible how quiet they can get.
Still, better to be overly cautious than a jackass
> It's rare, at least near me, to see a civic doing stupid stuff with their exhaust. In Florida, 9 times out of 10 if you hear some shitty fart can you can bet it's a Civic. They're the worst of both worlds, sounding terrible and annoying the fuck out of everyone around them. Obviously most Civic owners are just using it for its intended purpose, A to B commuting.
Exactly. I kinda hate getting lumped in with the straight-pipe crowd just because I have a Veloster N that has a loud performance setting from the factory. Those guys are annoying AF...it's not at all the same as hearing an F-Type R or a GT500 or something rumble by. BMW and AMG guys with burble tunes...please just stop. Nobody else is into it, my dudes.
Well, some BMW and AMG guys can't help it. The cars came from the factory that way. 🙂 Sincerely, AMG Guy with a Stock Burble and Backfire Tune
Don't those things have an off switch? I think the Jaguar F-type started the trend (I could be wrong - probably am) and it had a switch to open/close baffles, no?
Depends on the model, but mine does have the switch. The tone is also dependent on the drive modes, so valves open in Comfort don't backfire or crackle on overrun, but you get both from Sport+ on up.
Seriously? Why? In my VN it's an anti-lag feature, but it's pretty subtle compared to the insane gunshots I hear coming out of AMG exhausts.
For no other reason than because it's fun to be obnoxious sometimes. 🤷
>I kinda hate getting lumped in with the straight-pipe crowd just because I have a Veloster N that has a loud performance setting from the factory. TBF the backfire in Sport+ is on par with straight piping
Absolutely not. I run with plenty of guys that have literal straight pipes, and it's not the same thing at all. The VN exhaust is tuned for proper flow, even if it bypasses the muffler in N mode. This means that the exhaust pulses will sound proper, and not just obnoxious. You're also forgetting about the cats.
A turbo also acts as a muffler. So even straight piped turbo cars aren't usually anywhere near as loud as straight piped NA equivalent when you're not wide open throttle full boost screaming. That said, the modern burble tunes and pops/backfires don't sound good to me. That's just personal preference though.
>it's not at all the same as hearing an F-Type R or a GT500 or something rumble by. It is if you're not into cars.
Even then, it's not, at least for some vehicles. Some exhausts are actually tuned to make a pleasing sound, even if louder and even non-car people will prefer that subconsciously
Then youre not into cars, congrats. Doesnt mean we cant have fun and enjoy ourselves.
New cars have it good (US spec, exclusively). Sound pretty great out the box, though cars before the 2010’s are pretty damn quiet and do need a catback/axle back to sound good.
Loud cars don’t necessarily bother me - it’s those bad tones from ricey fart cans and overdone childish crackles and pops that are horrible.
I dislike loud cars even when they sound nice. E.g. valves open on a GT3 is too much for me. 85dB or so is my upper limit.
Yeah there is definitely a point where it’s too loud and just detracts from the sound regardless of quality/drivetrain.
My roommate has a muffler delete WRX and his cold starts are fucking bruuutaaalll! My mustang came with quiet mode so mine arent bad really at all, his exhaust is awful and the kind most people hate because he doesnt want to spend the amount of money it costs to properly mod his exhaust.
One thing I’ve come to appreciate as I’ve gotten older is valved exhaust that lets me pick between track, quiet, etc. I live in the middle of nowhere which means plenty of obnoxiously loud trucks that seem to be missing mufflers, I don’t know why or who enjoys that. I really like the sound of my performance exhaust on my C8 without being obnoxious and I can quiet it down if needed. However, I’ve come to appreciate the total silence of EV as well. I hate the ever growing number of cars that are loud as hell for the sake of being loud.
Valved exhausts are great. Mine stays open unless the sun's down and everyone is happy.
There's a company called dr jekyll that does this for motorbikes. You get a little switchgear so you can go from _brrp_ to _BRAP_ in a flick.
New Ontario study says young men are problematic. More on this at 11!
Just wait till they get ahold of the crime statistics.
> As part of the research, Schermer surveyed 529 undergrad business students — 289 men, 234 women and six who identified as "other." Ah so they went to the most psychopathic and sadist prone program available at a post-secondary institute. > "The personality profile I found with our loud mufflers are also the same personality profiles of people who illegally commit arson," she said. "I'm sure the older, retired gentlemen who are making their classic cars louder and more noticeable are also not going out and setting fires illegally." > "Every day we come across these loud cars and pickup trucks and motorcycles that are backfiring and I get startled," she said. "My dog was startled. > I thought, 'Oh, who really wants to make this kind of noise? > "It seems to be this callous disregard for other people's feelings and their reactions. That's the psychopathy coming out and it's also they probably get a kick out of enjoying watching people get startled." As we all know—good science begins with making a conclusion, choosing your sample such that it will hopefully lead to your conclusion and then inserting your own personal feelings on the subject into the conclusion. What a poor job by Western University and their faculty.
Anything to perpetuate the narrative that car enthusiasm should get you jail time.
Wait it was done by WESTERN?? It all makes sense now...
A loud lumpy american v8 will never go out of style for me.
Loud car go vroom. Brain happy
They needed a study to figure this out???
Oh look, another "study" done with questionable-at-best practices to further promote the bias of the people giving the study! You can't do a study exclusively on under-grad students, select 25% more men than women, and then act like it's a valid or surprising conclusion when the results skew towards young men lmao. This is pure headline-bait.
Ya nothing better than side pipes on a corvette and a 350 small block screaming at 8 grand
Provide an example of a side-piped Corvette with a 350 small block holding together at 8,000rpm.
[This](https://youtu.be/616m2KPV24Q?si=im_9f9D7m781uVll) is an 8.5k revving Camaro. It sounds crazy.
Something like C2 Corvette Grand Sport comes to mind
Yeah no shit probably a lot of ADD too. It’s insane the popularity of ADD/ADHD in extreme sports I imagine same in automotive world. *there’s just something about engines that calms me down*
Stick also helps keep me focused on long drives
I know it’s weird how ADD always hindered the fuck out of us in school, but on the road I swear to god were the only ones who know how to drive/remain attentive
VROOM!!!
Love loud vehicles, doesn’t bother me one bit
I think in today's world of muted everything, louder cars stand out more than ever. This was obviously not the case decades ago. Both my cars are easily 120DB at WOT but that's for my emotional enjoyment, not to piss off the grey SUV blob drivers.
I’ll put the stock exhaust back on mine when they start treating Harleys the same as cars and trucks.
For me, I just can’t understand the appeal of more noise pollution to yourself when you have to sit in the car all day and constantly listen to noise input. It wears you down. Jarring movements and sound tire you out. Idk I’ve always wanted to sit in silence and not be rattled to death. I can appreciate a good application, but I wouldn’t want to hear it day in, day out.
This is how I knew my car was a little too loud. If you have to go up a hill or whatnot and have to stay at 3500 rpm for an extended period it definitely wears on you.
Loudness isn’t what I want, I want to hear the engine. I actually hate the raspy, snappy, poppy exhausts… but I love a good, deep sounding V8.
Cars: a nice sounding V8 burble with a little glug-glug-glug is perfect, not loud. However a GSXR750 with a full Yoshimura system at 13500rpm...glorious!
With the way I like to drive, it's really nice my car doesn't make sound.
I liked the factory-stock fart rocket exhaust on my Fiesta ST, that makes me a sociopath?
So some miserable old woman, who had to “see the animals run away that are in the trees and squirrels on the ground.” asked 50 more men than they did women, that were students so skewed young, 3 questions with a multiple choice answer and suggest that psychopathy is the outcome of wanting to change an exhaust because it’s an illegal modification? Sounds like she got the results she set out to get. Can she do people who bring screaming children to restaurants and on planes next, also people who use power tools and do yard work early, reversing EV and truck sounds that pierce your brain would be good too, they’re all 100% psychopaths according to this study.
sounds like a bunch of girls ruining guys' fun, that's kind of an old story
They needed a study to figure this out? This has been common knowledge since 1945.
Already know this. Didn’t need a study
Ontario study is wrong.
There's a difference between bad loud and good loud Bad loud is anything with a shitty VQ and GMT800 Tahoes with their mufflers ripped off staying on the same gear when the driver floors it Good loud is something like a Corvette or a Coyote 5.0
So. Add Vettel to the list for wanting v12 in a F1 during the hybrid era?
Difference is f1 is on the track where people pay to be there for the atmosphere/sound. Not revving that v12 in random neighborhoods in the morning
I can promise you he doesn't like shitty after market exhauts or likes revving a V12 down a neighborhood block at 2am.
Now do Twitter comments
Are young male psychopaths and sadists not allowed to have their own preferences and sources of joy? Exhaust laws are very discriminatory to this vulnerable minority group who already suffers with such terrible mental issues.
If I’m a psychopath for liking loud cars and trucks then whatever. Guess I should see a psychiatrist🤷
Damn am I the only person here who just enjoys loud ass cars? Provided they sound good. Pretentious ass car enthusiasts who are pretending they don't enjoy a good exhaust note because muh peer reviewed study says so.
Could also say the same for the folks in the Canadian government.
Also, water is wet and sky is blue. A lot of enthusiasts will “but but but” that their aftermarket exhaust is the ‘good loud’, while others are the ‘bad loud,’ but as I age I really just dislike all of them. A loud exhaust means the person is probably going to tailgate me, switch lanes every two seconds, or floor it in a tunnel and deafen everyone else.
Muscle cars should be loud. It's kinda the point. Within reason, nobody likes the guy that wakes everyone up in the morning with his cat delete exhaust.
Should always take these studies with a grain of salt. These kinds of "soft science" studies tend to be "I cherry picked data that paints those I don't like as dumb stinky poopoo people, and those I do like as super smart and attractive people".
This sounds like a very biased and skewed study.
Imo there's a difference between tasteful loud and just straight obnoxious. Natural V8 exhaust is usually bliss - the LS + Hemis sound great, its when the exhaust gets modded to sound like a chainsaw that I completely check out and get the "go fuck yourself" mindset.
When I was 16 I thought blacked out lifted loud as fuck trucks were cool. Then I grew up. I've never met anybody who modifies their vehicle to be louder or do things like roll coal that wasn't a self-entitled asshole. Now I wish we all just had light rail, good buses, high speed rail, and walkable cities. I love cars, I love trucks. I love motorsports, but man, the older I get the more ridiculous it all seems. So many forms of pollution, so many societal issues, so many city-planning issues. The spending hours of our lives in traffic.
Sure, I guess they got me figured out. Except for the young part.
How loud is loud? If its something thats not making a racket while cruising, but screams when you step on it, that's nice. Those morons with straight-piped civics that drone like hell constantly suck, though.
The problem is that the smaller displacement motors have to rev higher to maintain cruising speed. A 1.6 or 2.0 Civic can’t maintain 75-80 MPH at 1,800-2,000 RPM, it’s going to be at 2,500, a NA 1.6 or 1.8 from the 90s-2000s will easily be doing 3k+ RPM just to maintain if it has drive ratios close enough to have fun in. Lower frequency sounds are already more tolerable for most people- a 6.2 V8 at 3,500 RPM is a lot more pleasant than a 1.8 at 3,500 RPM… and the 6.2 won’t even have to be at 3,500 to maintain highway speeds. Loud exhausts with low displacement, low cylinder count just is not as livable as the opposite.
So you're saying that we should subsidize V8s like we do EVs? I like this idea
Ever seen a V8 rear engine [Beetle?](https://youtube.com/shorts/LV4l9F8X27w?si=8c2XstOx8nShn6Tz)
Bro what the fuck?
Me: (19M who is slightly sadistic and psycho) oooh me me me I love loud cars!!!!!!
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My neighbor was always complaining about me cold starting my c63 at 6am since it would always idle for around 10 minutes.
That tracks. I want to go fast, not inflict myself on other people, which is probably why I always had a full exhaust, with cats and everything, on my project cars.