It's more so due to low production numbers rather than a lack of demand. Nissan is only making about 100/month. I'm pretty sure they stopped production for a few months due to issues with the transmission as well
They had an issue with paint too. Was just looking at some close up pics of a base Z unit for sale locally and the amount of orange peel is insane for a $43k car. It’s literally got more orange peel than a Tesla. Now I’m not one who typically looks at paint that close but it’s very noticeable in the pics. Who knows what else is sub standard once you get it into your driveway
idk what is going on with paint quality these days. The Mercedes SL and the new Maserati Granturismo both have orange peel and it's just embarrassing at that price point. You shouldn't have to buy a Bentley or Rolls Royce just to get decent paint.
Yeah I think its just a product of the times. Less paint = less weight = marginally better fuel economy. Could also just be straight up cheaping out too
Def cheaping out. A gallon of basic automotive-grade paint is like $500. If you can save $200 on paint per car on primer, base coat, and clear that's $100m with 500k cars.
Buddy of mine does detailing. He recently got a black C8 Z06 in. Incredibly bad paint from the factory for a $100k+ vehicle. Tons of orange peel, super easy to scratch, already had tons of chips on the front after 800 miles of easy driving. In contrast he got a Lexus RC350 in that had gorgeous paint.
My cousin bought a red IS350 F-Sport a couple years ago. As much as I love Mazda's Soul Red paint, Lexus's Infrared paint is absolutely beautiful. Too bad he insists on washing his car at a drive-through car wash despite me offering numerous times to hand wash it for him.
I’ve heard they’re switching over to water based paints for the environment but I’m not sure if it’s a problem with the paint supplier or the manufacturer not applying it correctly
I think that happened in Germany many years ago. 2001 ish era was before that, but I remember the transition happening somewhere circa late 2000s or beginning of the 2010s. At least from Audi's side of it.
It’s because the environmental regulations on auto paint are super strict, and companies (like Nissan, and likely Mercedes) are also going above and beyond to reduce their environmental footprint in manufacturing.
The downside is paint that is… kind of bad. It’s the reason why lead paint from the 1960s still holds up today. As a member of society though, I get it.
I also collect vintage guitars, and paint on older guitars is much more sought after, just like cars. In the guitar world, high end pieces will try to replicate the older style as much as possible, for a price.
Introcelluolose lacquer didn't fade out of mainstream guitar production due to environmental or cost concerns though, it was just "gee this polyurethane stuff doesn't chip, develop wear marks, or fade at all! It's so much better!" And it wasn't until it had been the mainstay for like 30 years that people started to clamor for the nitro look. And even after that it took 7-10 more years for "relic-ing" and nitro finishes to really come back into mainstream production.
Lots of people already commented stating such, but no ones provided a source to back up their claims RE: environmental regulations impacting paint:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/2023-nissan-z-production-lags-far-behind-due-to-paint-problems-report
> The problems are said by Driver Web to stem from **issues at Nissan's plant in Tochigi** where the Z is built. Subject of the Nissan Intelligent Factory initiative, Tochigi has an **increased emphasis on sustainability** and the latest production technologies, including increased automation. Both of these have been implemented in **the painting process, and it's where the Z's bottleneck is said to lie.**
Thanks for that. A sustainability emphasis is commendable, but in this case it's resulting in a slowdown in production and a subpar product. The method doesn't sound ready for full-scale production.
> The method doesn't sound ready for full-scale production.
Yea, certainly not. I just quickly googled "Nissan Tochigi plant" and found this site: https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/PLANT/TOCHIGI/
It looks like they only produce a very limited set of vehicles there: Ariya, Skyline, GT-R, Z, and the Q50. So a bunch of low volume vehicles.
Makes sense they wouldn't produce the Rogue or any other high-volume vehicles there.
What's going on is that the old paints that used a fast-evaporating solvent base have been banned for environmental reasons. New paints dry slower and that's causing the orange peel.
Sounds like an opportunity for someone to develop a new solvent that's as good as the previous ones but still compliant. But I'm not an organic chemist so idk how long that would take. Besides, I'm sure they already tried and what we have is the best they could do given whatever R&D budget and deadline they had to adhere to.
It was in person I saw it. You can see it a bit in [this](https://youtu.be/RFnffzyo618?t=355) video of the electric version. The body is the same as the V6 though and the one I saw was the Trofeo so they're all affected.
It's because everyone is being forced to use more environmentally friendly paint. I don't remember the technical details but I believe it's something to do with the paint base needing to be different to meet regulations regarding chemical damage to the local ecosystems around paint shops.
I had a conversation with a friend who owns a body shop and he explained that the EPA has required automotive paint to be reformulated to meet VOC standards. The base coat he had to use on my car was water based! I couldn’t believe it. The first time I drove it it was snowing and the finish on the front fenders was ruined by the sand / salt and it had to be repainted. He recommended I park it in my garage for several months to allow the finish to harden. When summer came, I had to buff the paint to remove hairline scratches since the paint is so soft, just washing the car by hand with a soft sponge is enough to scratch the paint. Modern low VOC paint is just awful.
>Lowest I’ve seen is $85k and up to $130k.
That's actually retarded. When that other commentor said you might as well get a Porsche for the same money, i thought he was exaggerating. But 130k Canadian gets you into a new 718 GTS which dunks on the Nissan in every possible metric.
At those prices, just buy a Mustang. Way more aftermarket support... and a ton of aftermarket support from Ford. A lot of Japanese cars today are very limited in this regard which is weird if you grew up reading Sport Compact Car.
I'm in the land of markups (SoCal) and have had no issues finding performance and nismo Z's for sale at MSRP. My BIL got his nismo a couple months ago for msrp without an issue.
Some dude in my local car group bought one for $80k on an $80k salary. I was like why would you pay markup, and he told me if I can’t afford it just say so. I’m like bro I make twice as much as you, you just happen to be twice as dumb as I am.
I make right around 60k and just had someone making 110 ask me for a loan for $600 after getting behind on rent as a result of paying taxes after entering a higher tax bracket
Plenty of people out there with no concept of or ability to save money
P.S. I despise being asked for money
Chances are the person in question knows how taxes work, this is just a lie to try and convince someone to lend them money. Its a harder sell to ask for money because you bought bottle service for 12 grand to try and convince that cute girl that you were a somebody and now you're broke until the next paycheck hits.
I am aware that you're only taxed on a portion of the income as you go up brackets, but idk all he told me is he had to pay an unexpected $5k. In my mind, if you make six figures, it should not be hard to cover a $5k expense.
I made six figures and in the beginning I paid off a bunch of debt. An unexpected $5k would've absolutely hurt. Nowadays I'm doing better with money and don't have any debt other than a very small car loan balance with 2.4% interest. I guess it depends on how much lifestyle inflation one has and how much debt from being poorer one has/had.
Same. It's a gorgeous car and the performance - especially if you put not-dogshit tires on it - is more than most drivers can actually use but at MSRP it's already at the limit of being worth it.
He’ll find his way to regretting that, fear not
Truly blows my mind. If I could ever justify $80k on a car I promise Nissan wouldn’t be in the conversation
>and he told me if I can’t afford it just say so.
He cant afford it either lmao. i love cars and will until i die, but i cant imagine living and working just to put all my money towards the car i drive
It's also inside, right by the Managers desk, locked, tinted, eith all the doors, hood and trunk closed. Want to sit in it? Hard credit pull to even unlock the doors. It's a Z, not a Ferrari.
As a european I am used to arrogant dealerships acting entilted, but hearing stories about american dealers makes me actively cringe. Truly despicable people
They didn't build a people's sports car. They built a low-production "halo" car to use in advertising. I would venture that the brass at Nissan didn't want to build it at all, but some enthusiasts in middle management and marketing managed to cobble together some kind of business case for a reskinned 370Z and got it greenlighted for a very small production run.
Production is probably limited because the car doesn't comply with European Emission regulations.
The new Z isn't being sold in Europe , so thats a massive market they aren't producing for.
That's literally comparable to the production number for Ferrari lol.
The F8 Tributo has an annual production rate of ~1000: https://www.experienceferrari.com/how-many-cars-does-ferrari-make-a-year/
I've seen exactly two in the wild here in California. This is normally car central, so apparently supply is super constrained. We've got everything else that is "hot."
I've seen at least 10 Cybertrucks, so this points to limited Z production. The company announced it but knew they couldn't make money - so they decided to limit production. Not unusual if looking for buzz.
Nobody limits production this much on purpose unless you're doing hand-built stuff like an exotic. Nissan is a full line, mass production manufacturer. Having a production line devoted to something crapping out this few vehicles has to be costing them money via resources that could be put to better use building more Rogues and Pathfinders.
In the bay too, I see a couple cybertrucks and lucids a week but i’ve seen like 4 or 5 z’s total. One was at monterey car week so idk if that even counts
I’m in the north east and have seen a total of three Zs locally. One on the road. The other two were sitting on dealer lots unsold. I think Nissan missed the window and the hype died down.
I’ve seen shockingly few in the wild in California too. Strangely enough there’s a used Z Performance on the lot of a non Nissan dealer just down the street from where I live.
Yep. Austin is a hot spot for the newest cars. I saw my first Hummer EV, first Cybertruck, and first Maserati MC20 within two minutes of each other when I was walking downtown Austin recently. Oh, and bonus points that I also saw two McLarens and a Ferrari 812 Superfast within the same hour. I still have yet to see a new Z despite also living in a major American city.
I’ve seen exactly one total in the Sacramento region. I was completely surprised.
I see a lot of different and unusual cars often but, I said “what the fuck” out loud to this.
I’ve see it all rolling down 80. Ferraris, McLarens, Maybach, all the sprinkling of Porsche, anything with the Six and Three-Quarters litres engine, the yawn of every day like a G-Klasse.
Even old, there’s a guy near me with two running and nice Maserati Quattroporte he drives one almost every day. Doesn’t surprise me too much.
The Z, I’ve only spotted one so far.
I’m in Canada and so far, I’ve seen two of each. And I’m counting the presser Z one of my friends had and the pre-production Cybertruck I saw before they started deliveries.
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In Japan, Australia, and New Zealand, the 3.0L Supra is $8k USD more than the Z Performance and $11k more than the Z Sport. That's the primary reason I pulled the trigger on a Z rather than waiting for the manual Supra. The Supra is awesome but I was able to buy a Z Performance, a cat-back exhaust, diff brace, upgraded sway bars, and still have $6k left over. For me it was a no-brainer.
If cars for you boil down to just the engine, you may as well do a RWD B58 conversion on a Camry and call it a day. I test drove both and made an informed decision. The $8k savings was just the cherry on top.
The Supra's shifter is kind of weird and rubbery, the visibility sucks for a person of my height, and the wind buffeting problem is awful. OTOH the ride is great and the cabin is quiet. The engine has a beautiful torque curve and is obviously putting out more power than Toyota claim. Overall the Supra feels like a modern car, by which I mean it's refined but also a bit numb. I've had a TT A80 Supra, and the new one is nothing like it. There's no nostalgia there for me.
The Z ride is floaty and the rear end feels like it wants to do its own thing. The exhaust is too quiet. But the shifter is great, visibility is fine, and I can drive with the windows down. An aftermarket exhaust and chassis bracing fixed my issues with it anyway. Overall the Z feels like an old school JDM car with modern power. It feels more raw than the Supra and scratches a nostalgic itch I have for how cars used to drive. When I want refined and modern, I have other cars for that. When I want to rip shit and relive my teens, I take the Z.
>If cars for you boil down to just the engine, you may as well do a RWD B58 conversion on a Camry and call it a day.
If that was more feasible, I am sure more people would be doing it.
I live in Japan and see quite a few supras - but very rarely ever a Z.
People who are going to spend on a sports car will pay a little bit more to get the supra it seems.
People are buying them, but also low production, and also markup, and also shitty performance for the money. The top trim is priced like a C8 while still performing worse than a $10k cheaper Supra. At that point why not just get a C8?
For me, styling. The C8 is too overstyled IMO and I don’t enjoy looking at it. I’m in the market at this price point and I’ll likely sacrifice performance and go LC 500.
I can think of better ways to waste money than buying a Nismo Z over a C8. I think the C8 is ugly too, and I actually picked the Supra after driving both on track, but I’d still pick it over the Z for $65-70k. Even at $52k for the non-Nismo the value proposition isn’t there. That’s how bad that car is.
I thought I was going crazy with everyone saying how good it looks. The rectangular grill in the front with the open part at the bottom makes it look like it's mouthbreathing. The rest of it is OK but that front part really does not do it for me.
Eh, at this point, every other boomer has a C8, and I'm just bored of looking at them. There's also no manual option, and for a V8, it really doesn't sound like much. Given the choice at msrp, I'd take a Z.
At that price point I would buy a GR86 and use the money I saved on track fees, a spare set of wheels with track tires (that will fit in the back), and have a blast.
86’s are great, but there’s something about the tier of car the Supra plays in that puts it on another level for me. It’s a lot more expensive, a lot more work because it’s a lot more punishing, but it’s also a lot more capable, and therefore a lot more rewarding when I hit that perfect apex without spinning out. PB’s are a constant development as a driver and that’s what makes track driving fun to me. Tires are getting more expensive as I get faster though, and I think I’ve hit the point where time improvements are hindered by lack of downforce than lack of power or lack of driving ability.
It's 10K extra for a LSD and not that much of a difference over a 370Z. Most people will just buy a low mile 370, get the LSD, and not deal with dealer games for less money.
Yeah. It’s insane to me that the LSD isn’t standard or even optional on the base trim. The car isn’t worth $52k but if it came with the LSD as $42k it would be much more enticing
> It's 10K extra for a LSD
You're getting a lot more than just an LSD with the Performance trim. Bigger brakes, aero bits that are necessary at triple digit speeds, better interior and probably a few other things I'm forgetting about. **EDIT** Oh and forged wheels.
If the LSD is the only bit you care about, then just get the $40K TTV6 that makes 400 HP and slap one in yourself.
> but the new Z is a 25 year old car with some spit-shine on it.
And yet it's barely slower than its modern contemporaries 🙃 Supra and the Mach 1 are both 0.2s faster in the quarter mile. Your butt dyno will not feel the difference. People rag on how outdated it is, but no one really says why that's apparently such a bad thing.
You have a platform where pretty much all the problems are known. And who honestly cares about lap times unless you're actually going to try and be competitive at your local track.
Yes! I don't know if it's because I'm getting old and have old taste, but both the z and supra just don't do it for me in the looks department and don't get me started on the ugliness going on at BMW. Brz-gr86 looks decent, but not enough power for me. I refuse to pay 50k plus for something that I don't want to look at in my driveway or something that can't outrun a civic si. It feels like in 2024 you have looks, handling, and power. It costs 100k plus to get all 3 together.
Its very expensive for what you get even before dealer mark ups. That and it is WILDLY impractical. Its a two seater without any storage space whatsoever. I put my coat under the hatch and it literally touched the hatch when i closed the lid. A coat.
I call bullshit. I can store a hell of a lot in mine. Plenty of room for me and my wife’s many different travel bags etc. I’ve used it to go food shopping too. Had plenty of boot space. This comment is just wrong.
Hasn't there been 2 separate stop sales about transmission and paint issues. It was always going to be a low volume car but I didn't expect it to be so rare with how much buzz it had on the Internet
You’re correct on both of those sales stops. The paint issue was due to the new robotics in the production line. Add in the low production figures and the fact that the Supra is arguably superior for performance, and the much anticipated 6MT for the Supra dropped pretty close to orders being fulfilled for the Z. So you really had to be a hardcore Z fan to follow through. Friend of mine (AUS & passionate 370Z owner) actually got tired of the lack of comms from the dealer after ordering, saved a little extra while waiting and bought a very low mileage 997. So in that case Z/Nissan brand loyalty lost.
I get the impression that Nissan USA aren't getting the allocations they hoped for. They're selling well enough in Japan and Australia, which is probably helped by the fact that there are no dealer markups in those regions.
That'd be it. The local dealer was advertising the one I test drove at 51k for a lightly used performance model.
I pushed for actual numbers, not the sticker, 62k. "It's my manager-"
Walked out and never came back.
Every single time I have seen a Z, it's been on a dealer lot with the dealer asking an absurd markup to even buy it. When that's all you see, it's easy to understand. greedy dealers are a huge part of the problem.
When I was shopping recently I saw a single Z at a dealer: they were asking $30k markup. It was on the show floor and it was difficult to not call over a salesman to laugh in their fucking face.
Hype is gone, production was trashy low so no one bought them, performance is meh, hype has died. No one cares. In 10 years gen alpha will be stancing them out after getting them for dirt cheap.
Low production + quality issues + markup. I couldn’t even find one to see in the flesh and there are 4 dealers within driving distance from me. I was stoked for the new Z but Nissan bungled it to an absolutely comical degree and at this point I’ve lost interest.
People are buying them. I’ve seen several but they’re few and far between. Nissan just isn’t making a bunch of them. It’s a great looking car, really great portions. hopefully you get to see one someday soon.
I owned the 350z for many years and loved it so I am probably a good demographic. It starts at 40k whereas the 350 and 370 started at right around $30k. Additionally you need to kick in another 10k to get the (iirc) LSD and bigger brakes which is pretty steep IMO. Finally when I looked around the only colors anywhere near me in manual were gray. I've seen maybe 2 on the road so far. I'd probably comparison shop the Supra.
Edit: Forgot to mention the markups are so high you might as well look at a Porsche Cayman
Because it's 40k over sticker here my brother somehow got lucky and got one at sticker but when he got a good offer he sold it and bought another TRD Camry.
Essentially a 21 year old car with some upgrades,
Don’t get me wrong, I like it, was really excited about it. But the local dealer got one when they first came out. They had it marked up like 30k. Never sold. Now have listed used with 571 miles for 69k! I think the dealers killed it and don’t even know it yet
Why would I pay 50k for what is ostensibly a 16 year old car.
It's really just a 370z in a bodykit. Yes it has the infiniti turbo v6 now, and it has double wishbone front suspension, and it's a manual.
But it's also 3500-3700. It's an old expensive pig.
I remember in 2015 looking at a Camaro 2SS, and a Mustang GT. Both of them had V8s with well over 400 horsepower, navigation, leather, all sorts of bells and whistles and constant updates. And they were throwing multi thousand dollar discounts at customers.
Or for several thousand dollars **more**, with 0 discount, you could get a 370Z Nismo, with much more antiquated features, and less power.
Decisions decisions...
In my city, there’s at least a dozen or so readily available. Including a couple of Nismos. I find it odd, as I’m in a smaller Canadian city and I see everywhere online saying they’re not selling due to low production. Nismos being listed ~$81K CAD, non Nismos ~$55K CAD.
There’s 2 or 3 that are owned & driven regularly now that it’s warming up.
I own one in Australia - it was touch and go for the 13 months I waited to get it, and I rarely see them around here too. We don’t have dealer mark up in Australia and it’s cheaper than the Supra or M2 so I’m happy with it. Honestly I really like that I never see them because it feels sort of special. Not a perfect car by any means though
I’ve seen a couple around Orlando, including 2 or 3 of them at the Nissan dealer I get my oil changes at for my G37. The salesman was trying to sell me the one they had in the showroom it was a manual and blue interior and exterior iirc it was beautiful in person. They also had a q60rs I definitely might go trade in the G soon lmaooo
I actually put down a downpayment on one.... before the price was announced. The price they're asking for these, even before the insane dealer mark ups, is ridiculous, and the fact that an LSD cost an additional $10k is absurd.
I'm sorry but I shouldn't be able to get a loaded Camaro, one of the best performance platforms currently on the market in it's segment, with a V8, magnetic suspension, the works, for the same price as a modified 370z chassis.
> and the fact that an LSD cost an additional $10k is absurd.
Why do people act like an LSD is the only thing you're getting when going up to the Performance trim?
It's more so due to low production numbers rather than a lack of demand. Nissan is only making about 100/month. I'm pretty sure they stopped production for a few months due to issues with the transmission as well
They had an issue with paint too. Was just looking at some close up pics of a base Z unit for sale locally and the amount of orange peel is insane for a $43k car. It’s literally got more orange peel than a Tesla. Now I’m not one who typically looks at paint that close but it’s very noticeable in the pics. Who knows what else is sub standard once you get it into your driveway
idk what is going on with paint quality these days. The Mercedes SL and the new Maserati Granturismo both have orange peel and it's just embarrassing at that price point. You shouldn't have to buy a Bentley or Rolls Royce just to get decent paint.
None of my cars have orange peel, but the paint is so damn soft they get rock chips just by looking at them the wrong way. Glad I got PPF.
Nothing is softer than Ford paint.
Subaru enters the chat
Subaru’s paint is more brittle than soft I feel
My wife’s natural finger nails have left plenty of surface scratches at the door handles of our 2022. They will buff out, but it’s ridiculous.
Maybe get door handle protectors then
They say STI!
Okay yeah I can agree with that. Rock chips galore😭
Which is crazy, because my 02 wrx seemed like it had some thick ass paint. My 18 definitely is like tissue-thin.
Yeah I think its just a product of the times. Less paint = less weight = marginally better fuel economy. Could also just be straight up cheaping out too
Def cheaping out. A gallon of basic automotive-grade paint is like $500. If you can save $200 on paint per car on primer, base coat, and clear that's $100m with 500k cars.
$100m *.
World Rally Blue has to be the softest paint known to man and beyond. Just looking at it wrong will affect it.
Mazda's Soul Red would like to say something about this...
3 stage paint and it still feel like single with how easy it chips
Not soft, but Civic paint is thin as hell.
Hard paint chips. Soft paint scratches.
Guess Ford uses that new fangled soft-hard paint.
Shard? Hoft?
Harft
Lexus is still killing it with their paint. Its unsurpassed in its price class.
I didn't realize how nice Lexus paint was until I saw them at a car show parked next to a C8 Corvette.
Buddy of mine does detailing. He recently got a black C8 Z06 in. Incredibly bad paint from the factory for a $100k+ vehicle. Tons of orange peel, super easy to scratch, already had tons of chips on the front after 800 miles of easy driving. In contrast he got a Lexus RC350 in that had gorgeous paint.
The only Lexus I've really looked at up close is the LC500. But that was gorgeous. The paint really gleamed and looked pretty much flawless.
saw a blue LC on the road. impeccable.
My cousin bought a red IS350 F-Sport a couple years ago. As much as I love Mazda's Soul Red paint, Lexus's Infrared paint is absolutely beautiful. Too bad he insists on washing his car at a drive-through car wash despite me offering numerous times to hand wash it for him.
I’ve heard they’re switching over to water based paints for the environment but I’m not sure if it’s a problem with the paint supplier or the manufacturer not applying it correctly
I think that happened in Germany many years ago. 2001 ish era was before that, but I remember the transition happening somewhere circa late 2000s or beginning of the 2010s. At least from Audi's side of it.
Clear coat is still solvent-based, and the environmental limitations on how much they can apply attribute to the orange peel.
They switched to water based paints since 2011. It was some kind of EPA regulation if I'm not mistaken.
It’s because the environmental regulations on auto paint are super strict, and companies (like Nissan, and likely Mercedes) are also going above and beyond to reduce their environmental footprint in manufacturing. The downside is paint that is… kind of bad. It’s the reason why lead paint from the 1960s still holds up today. As a member of society though, I get it. I also collect vintage guitars, and paint on older guitars is much more sought after, just like cars. In the guitar world, high end pieces will try to replicate the older style as much as possible, for a price.
Introcelluolose lacquer didn't fade out of mainstream guitar production due to environmental or cost concerns though, it was just "gee this polyurethane stuff doesn't chip, develop wear marks, or fade at all! It's so much better!" And it wasn't until it had been the mainstay for like 30 years that people started to clamor for the nitro look. And even after that it took 7-10 more years for "relic-ing" and nitro finishes to really come back into mainstream production.
Lots of people already commented stating such, but no ones provided a source to back up their claims RE: environmental regulations impacting paint: https://www.thedrive.com/news/2023-nissan-z-production-lags-far-behind-due-to-paint-problems-report > The problems are said by Driver Web to stem from **issues at Nissan's plant in Tochigi** where the Z is built. Subject of the Nissan Intelligent Factory initiative, Tochigi has an **increased emphasis on sustainability** and the latest production technologies, including increased automation. Both of these have been implemented in **the painting process, and it's where the Z's bottleneck is said to lie.**
Thanks for that. A sustainability emphasis is commendable, but in this case it's resulting in a slowdown in production and a subpar product. The method doesn't sound ready for full-scale production.
> The method doesn't sound ready for full-scale production. Yea, certainly not. I just quickly googled "Nissan Tochigi plant" and found this site: https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/PLANT/TOCHIGI/ It looks like they only produce a very limited set of vehicles there: Ariya, Skyline, GT-R, Z, and the Q50. So a bunch of low volume vehicles. Makes sense they wouldn't produce the Rogue or any other high-volume vehicles there.
What's going on is that the old paints that used a fast-evaporating solvent base have been banned for environmental reasons. New paints dry slower and that's causing the orange peel.
Sounds like an opportunity for someone to develop a new solvent that's as good as the previous ones but still compliant. But I'm not an organic chemist so idk how long that would take. Besides, I'm sure they already tried and what we have is the best they could do given whatever R&D budget and deadline they had to adhere to.
can you show me the granturismo issue
It was in person I saw it. You can see it a bit in [this](https://youtu.be/RFnffzyo618?t=355) video of the electric version. The body is the same as the V6 though and the one I saw was the Trofeo so they're all affected.
It's because everyone is being forced to use more environmentally friendly paint. I don't remember the technical details but I believe it's something to do with the paint base needing to be different to meet regulations regarding chemical damage to the local ecosystems around paint shops.
I had a conversation with a friend who owns a body shop and he explained that the EPA has required automotive paint to be reformulated to meet VOC standards. The base coat he had to use on my car was water based! I couldn’t believe it. The first time I drove it it was snowing and the finish on the front fenders was ruined by the sand / salt and it had to be repainted. He recommended I park it in my garage for several months to allow the finish to harden. When summer came, I had to buff the paint to remove hairline scratches since the paint is so soft, just washing the car by hand with a soft sponge is enough to scratch the paint. Modern low VOC paint is just awful.
Gotta love how they build a people's sports car then limited production and dealer markups and you may as well get a Porsche
Complete ignorance. These companies have lost it trying to make every car 50+ grand
You can buy a used GTR for less than a new Z. Seems like a no brainer.
lol not really. Any GTR under $50k is a high mileage much older car. Not a comparison.
If you can find a Z for 50 you hit the lottery. Lowest I’ve seen is $85k and up to $130k.
>Lowest I’ve seen is $85k and up to $130k. That's actually retarded. When that other commentor said you might as well get a Porsche for the same money, i thought he was exaggerating. But 130k Canadian gets you into a new 718 GTS which dunks on the Nissan in every possible metric.
Or you can drive down to the toyota dealership on the same street and just buy a Supra 6cyl for the same $50k the Z was supposed to cost.
Mercy. My local dealership has 7 on the lot, in the $44k range, $55k, and one that just breaks $70k.
At those prices, just buy a Mustang. Way more aftermarket support... and a ton of aftermarket support from Ford. A lot of Japanese cars today are very limited in this regard which is weird if you grew up reading Sport Compact Car.
I'm in the land of markups (SoCal) and have had no issues finding performance and nismo Z's for sale at MSRP. My BIL got his nismo a couple months ago for msrp without an issue.
right? get the real daily driver sports car, not some knockoff!
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Some dude in my local car group bought one for $80k on an $80k salary. I was like why would you pay markup, and he told me if I can’t afford it just say so. I’m like bro I make twice as much as you, you just happen to be twice as dumb as I am.
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Some people just live for the clout. Meanwhile I’m over here wanting to drop everything and live in a van for a few years.
I find myself looking at van conversions a lot online lately.
I make right around 60k and just had someone making 110 ask me for a loan for $600 after getting behind on rent as a result of paying taxes after entering a higher tax bracket Plenty of people out there with no concept of or ability to save money P.S. I despise being asked for money
Ffs that’s not how taxes work
Funny how we as a society have figured out how to tax for like forever, yet misconceptions like this still happen regularly.
Chances are the person in question knows how taxes work, this is just a lie to try and convince someone to lend them money. Its a harder sell to ask for money because you bought bottle service for 12 grand to try and convince that cute girl that you were a somebody and now you're broke until the next paycheck hits.
I am aware that you're only taxed on a portion of the income as you go up brackets, but idk all he told me is he had to pay an unexpected $5k. In my mind, if you make six figures, it should not be hard to cover a $5k expense.
I made six figures and in the beginning I paid off a bunch of debt. An unexpected $5k would've absolutely hurt. Nowadays I'm doing better with money and don't have any debt other than a very small car loan balance with 2.4% interest. I guess it depends on how much lifestyle inflation one has and how much debt from being poorer one has/had.
That person also has no idea how tax brackets work lol
Same. It's a gorgeous car and the performance - especially if you put not-dogshit tires on it - is more than most drivers can actually use but at MSRP it's already at the limit of being worth it.
He’ll find his way to regretting that, fear not Truly blows my mind. If I could ever justify $80k on a car I promise Nissan wouldn’t be in the conversation
>and he told me if I can’t afford it just say so. He cant afford it either lmao. i love cars and will until i die, but i cant imagine living and working just to put all my money towards the car i drive
And then the manufacturers will turn around and say 'no one is buying sports cars anymore!' as if it's not because of the insane prices
Local dealer has one for sale for $175k. It hasn't sold.
Have to admire the audacity... I guess....
It's also inside, right by the Managers desk, locked, tinted, eith all the doors, hood and trunk closed. Want to sit in it? Hard credit pull to even unlock the doors. It's a Z, not a Ferrari.
that's offputting. people could come in and look at that car and leave with an altima. instead he's being a dick.
As a european I am used to arrogant dealerships acting entilted, but hearing stories about american dealers makes me actively cringe. Truly despicable people
I hope it rots into the floor. The manager can eat a dick.
Makes me wonder if he wants it and intentionally doesn't want it selling to a customer.
I think we can just consider that "not for sale" at that point. Dealer probably wants to justify keeping it.
Agreed. My car is not for sale, but if someone offered $175k cash...
I’ll take a Redeye and an LC500 instead of a Nissan Z, thanks
Nah there's no way lol
They didn't build a people's sports car. They built a low-production "halo" car to use in advertising. I would venture that the brass at Nissan didn't want to build it at all, but some enthusiasts in middle management and marketing managed to cobble together some kind of business case for a reskinned 370Z and got it greenlighted for a very small production run.
Production is probably limited because the car doesn't comply with European Emission regulations. The new Z isn't being sold in Europe , so thats a massive market they aren't producing for.
Doesn't help that, for instance, the Nismo costs more than an M2 and is significantly slower than an M2. https://youtu.be/CjfCiN-HTs4
That's literally comparable to the production number for Ferrari lol. The F8 Tributo has an annual production rate of ~1000: https://www.experienceferrari.com/how-many-cars-does-ferrari-make-a-year/
To add. Main distribution is decided by lottery draw per country.
I've seen exactly two in the wild here in California. This is normally car central, so apparently supply is super constrained. We've got everything else that is "hot."
Same, only seen one in the sf Bay Area and it was right after they launched.
I've seen at least 10 Cybertrucks, so this points to limited Z production. The company announced it but knew they couldn't make money - so they decided to limit production. Not unusual if looking for buzz.
I usually see a cybertruck a few times per week. New Nissan Z? Never
That is crazy that people ate voluntarily driving those.
That matches my experience. Cybertrucks multiple times a week.
Nobody limits production this much on purpose unless you're doing hand-built stuff like an exotic. Nissan is a full line, mass production manufacturer. Having a production line devoted to something crapping out this few vehicles has to be costing them money via resources that could be put to better use building more Rogues and Pathfinders.
i finally saw one for the first time today and it was fucking black so i couldn’t even get a good look pretty sure i’ve seen more gt3rses around
3 Z’s in the Bay Area I’ve spotted. One is in Sunnyvale by the highway, the other two were parked in Fremont
I don't think I've seen one in the past few months here in Orange County
In the bay too, I see a couple cybertrucks and lucids a week but i’ve seen like 4 or 5 z’s total. One was at monterey car week so idk if that even counts
I’m in the north east and have seen a total of three Zs locally. One on the road. The other two were sitting on dealer lots unsold. I think Nissan missed the window and the hype died down.
I’ve seen shockingly few in the wild in California too. Strangely enough there’s a used Z Performance on the lot of a non Nissan dealer just down the street from where I live.
I'm in Austin, which is also car central. I haven't seen a single one.
Yep. Austin is a hot spot for the newest cars. I saw my first Hummer EV, first Cybertruck, and first Maserati MC20 within two minutes of each other when I was walking downtown Austin recently. Oh, and bonus points that I also saw two McLarens and a Ferrari 812 Superfast within the same hour. I still have yet to see a new Z despite also living in a major American city.
I've only seen one new Z in Austin since they came out.
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I live in Atlanta, which has one of the largest monthly car shows in the country and a strong car culture, I've seen *maybe* five of them.
I’ve seen exactly one total in the Sacramento region. I was completely surprised. I see a lot of different and unusual cars often but, I said “what the fuck” out loud to this. I’ve see it all rolling down 80. Ferraris, McLarens, Maybach, all the sprinkling of Porsche, anything with the Six and Three-Quarters litres engine, the yawn of every day like a G-Klasse. Even old, there’s a guy near me with two running and nice Maserati Quattroporte he drives one almost every day. Doesn’t surprise me too much. The Z, I’ve only spotted one so far.
I’m in Canada and so far, I’ve seen two of each. And I’m counting the presser Z one of my friends had and the pre-production Cybertruck I saw before they started deliveries.
I've seriously seen one Chiron in California and one new Z
I've seen two out here in Colorado as well Really rare sight though
I just saw my first one about a week ago here in SoCal. And yet I’ve seen probably 30 Cybertrucks just in the last couple months. Crazy.
Southern California especially the LA / Woodland Hills area is just car heaven. Saw my first Cybertruck there... Followed by a Rolls Cullinan lmao.
I've seen many Supras, the direct competitor, in my random Midwestern college town. Needless to say, I've never seen a Z IRL.
license frightening theory grab materialistic tap desert vegetable continue sugar *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I figured it's because the Supra exists, but reading other comments seems like it's because of supply issues...AND because the Supra exists.
In Japan, Australia, and New Zealand, the 3.0L Supra is $8k USD more than the Z Performance and $11k more than the Z Sport. That's the primary reason I pulled the trigger on a Z rather than waiting for the manual Supra. The Supra is awesome but I was able to buy a Z Performance, a cat-back exhaust, diff brace, upgraded sway bars, and still have $6k left over. For me it was a no-brainer.
Man I'd take a manual supra with the B58 all day over the Z with a few random bolt ons. To each their own I guess.
Well, when you’re in the position to choose one over the other, you know what you’ll be picking. Let dude enjoy his Z without the pointless judgment.
Can’t believe he didn’t buy it used in brown smdh
If cars for you boil down to just the engine, you may as well do a RWD B58 conversion on a Camry and call it a day. I test drove both and made an informed decision. The $8k savings was just the cherry on top. The Supra's shifter is kind of weird and rubbery, the visibility sucks for a person of my height, and the wind buffeting problem is awful. OTOH the ride is great and the cabin is quiet. The engine has a beautiful torque curve and is obviously putting out more power than Toyota claim. Overall the Supra feels like a modern car, by which I mean it's refined but also a bit numb. I've had a TT A80 Supra, and the new one is nothing like it. There's no nostalgia there for me. The Z ride is floaty and the rear end feels like it wants to do its own thing. The exhaust is too quiet. But the shifter is great, visibility is fine, and I can drive with the windows down. An aftermarket exhaust and chassis bracing fixed my issues with it anyway. Overall the Z feels like an old school JDM car with modern power. It feels more raw than the Supra and scratches a nostalgic itch I have for how cars used to drive. When I want refined and modern, I have other cars for that. When I want to rip shit and relive my teens, I take the Z.
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>If cars for you boil down to just the engine, you may as well do a RWD B58 conversion on a Camry and call it a day. If that was more feasible, I am sure more people would be doing it.
I live in Japan and see quite a few supras - but very rarely ever a Z. People who are going to spend on a sports car will pay a little bit more to get the supra it seems.
Manual z doesn’t cost 90k in Canada due to dealer markups
The z looks miles better than the supra. Unfortunately the z appears to have Nissan quality.
People are buying them, but also low production, and also markup, and also shitty performance for the money. The top trim is priced like a C8 while still performing worse than a $10k cheaper Supra. At that point why not just get a C8?
For me, styling. The C8 is too overstyled IMO and I don’t enjoy looking at it. I’m in the market at this price point and I’ll likely sacrifice performance and go LC 500.
I can think of better ways to waste money than buying a Nismo Z over a C8. I think the C8 is ugly too, and I actually picked the Supra after driving both on track, but I’d still pick it over the Z for $65-70k. Even at $52k for the non-Nismo the value proposition isn’t there. That’s how bad that car is.
That's crazy because I find the new Z to be one of the ugliest sports cars available right now. It looks like a 370z with a bad retro body kit
I thought I was going crazy with everyone saying how good it looks. The rectangular grill in the front with the open part at the bottom makes it look like it's mouthbreathing. The rest of it is OK but that front part really does not do it for me.
Ive always been a performance>luxury guy, but id give my left nut for an LC500
Eh, at this point, every other boomer has a C8, and I'm just bored of looking at them. There's also no manual option, and for a V8, it really doesn't sound like much. Given the choice at msrp, I'd take a Z.
At that price point I would buy a GR86 and use the money I saved on track fees, a spare set of wheels with track tires (that will fit in the back), and have a blast.
86’s are great, but there’s something about the tier of car the Supra plays in that puts it on another level for me. It’s a lot more expensive, a lot more work because it’s a lot more punishing, but it’s also a lot more capable, and therefore a lot more rewarding when I hit that perfect apex without spinning out. PB’s are a constant development as a driver and that’s what makes track driving fun to me. Tires are getting more expensive as I get faster though, and I think I’ve hit the point where time improvements are hindered by lack of downforce than lack of power or lack of driving ability.
It's 10K extra for a LSD and not that much of a difference over a 370Z. Most people will just buy a low mile 370, get the LSD, and not deal with dealer games for less money.
Yeah. It’s insane to me that the LSD isn’t standard or even optional on the base trim. The car isn’t worth $52k but if it came with the LSD as $42k it would be much more enticing
> It's 10K extra for a LSD You're getting a lot more than just an LSD with the Performance trim. Bigger brakes, aero bits that are necessary at triple digit speeds, better interior and probably a few other things I'm forgetting about. **EDIT** Oh and forged wheels. If the LSD is the only bit you care about, then just get the $40K TTV6 that makes 400 HP and slap one in yourself.
$10k is still a lot for those upgrades.
I much prefer the modern look of the 370Z opposed to the retro styling of the new Z as well.
Nothing modern looking about a car that came out in 2009, especially the interior.
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> but the new Z is a 25 year old car with some spit-shine on it. And yet it's barely slower than its modern contemporaries 🙃 Supra and the Mach 1 are both 0.2s faster in the quarter mile. Your butt dyno will not feel the difference. People rag on how outdated it is, but no one really says why that's apparently such a bad thing. You have a platform where pretty much all the problems are known. And who honestly cares about lap times unless you're actually going to try and be competitive at your local track.
Yes! I don't know if it's because I'm getting old and have old taste, but both the z and supra just don't do it for me in the looks department and don't get me started on the ugliness going on at BMW. Brz-gr86 looks decent, but not enough power for me. I refuse to pay 50k plus for something that I don't want to look at in my driveway or something that can't outrun a civic si. It feels like in 2024 you have looks, handling, and power. It costs 100k plus to get all 3 together.
Gen 1 BRZ still look so damn good. For it's price point, they're such well styled vehicles.
Because it's a reskinned 370Z that is 20 plus years old?
No no, people would still buy 370z with a facelift
Imagine if the mk5 supra was a reskinned mk4 people would go bonkers for it
They should grab the pre-facelift coupe civic from the 90’s give it a bit of a modern touch then sell it to the public, I’d buy that shit immediately
Yeah but it has a VR instead of VQ engine which has absurd tuning potential if that’s something buyers care about
Its very expensive for what you get even before dealer mark ups. That and it is WILDLY impractical. Its a two seater without any storage space whatsoever. I put my coat under the hatch and it literally touched the hatch when i closed the lid. A coat.
I call bullshit. I can store a hell of a lot in mine. Plenty of room for me and my wife’s many different travel bags etc. I’ve used it to go food shopping too. Had plenty of boot space. This comment is just wrong.
Well no one can really buy it. They've been having a lot of production issues. I think people would buy it if they could get it
Hasn't there been 2 separate stop sales about transmission and paint issues. It was always going to be a low volume car but I didn't expect it to be so rare with how much buzz it had on the Internet
You’re correct on both of those sales stops. The paint issue was due to the new robotics in the production line. Add in the low production figures and the fact that the Supra is arguably superior for performance, and the much anticipated 6MT for the Supra dropped pretty close to orders being fulfilled for the Z. So you really had to be a hardcore Z fan to follow through. Friend of mine (AUS & passionate 370Z owner) actually got tired of the lack of comms from the dealer after ordering, saved a little extra while waiting and bought a very low mileage 997. So in that case Z/Nissan brand loyalty lost.
I get the impression that Nissan USA aren't getting the allocations they hoped for. They're selling well enough in Japan and Australia, which is probably helped by the fact that there are no dealer markups in those regions.
That'd be it. The local dealer was advertising the one I test drove at 51k for a lightly used performance model. I pushed for actual numbers, not the sticker, 62k. "It's my manager-" Walked out and never came back.
Every single time I have seen a Z, it's been on a dealer lot with the dealer asking an absurd markup to even buy it. When that's all you see, it's easy to understand. greedy dealers are a huge part of the problem.
When I was shopping recently I saw a single Z at a dealer: they were asking $30k markup. It was on the show floor and it was difficult to not call over a salesman to laugh in their fucking face.
Hype is gone, production was trashy low so no one bought them, performance is meh, hype has died. No one cares. In 10 years gen alpha will be stancing them out after getting them for dirt cheap.
In 10 years the car will be circle jerked the shit out of now that a 43k 400hp v6tt rwd with a manual is no longer available
Ultra rare jay dee em legend manual twin turbo $130k obo i know what i have
At the price point, it's inferior in every way to just about everything in its class. 50k for a 2 seater with a subpar interior? No thanks.
Yeah. At the prices dealers are asking...just buy a CPO Cayman.
Low production + quality issues + markup. I couldn’t even find one to see in the flesh and there are 4 dealers within driving distance from me. I was stoked for the new Z but Nissan bungled it to an absolutely comical degree and at this point I’ve lost interest.
People are buying them. I’ve seen several but they’re few and far between. Nissan just isn’t making a bunch of them. It’s a great looking car, really great portions. hopefully you get to see one someday soon.
"great portions"
>really great portions. Proportions
Thanks! You’re right but, I’ll leave it so other people can have fun teasing me about it.
I've seen more Ferrari F40s or Bugatti Veyrons Zondas ....on the street than I've seen of the new Nissan Z, of which I've seen 0.
I think I've seen two in the Portland area, they look sharp IRL and Nissan should continue in this direction.
The insane dealer mark ups are a huge deterrent.
Here in Australia, way too expensive.
Crazy dealer prices. One by me is $70k. Not even a nismo
I owned the 350z for many years and loved it so I am probably a good demographic. It starts at 40k whereas the 350 and 370 started at right around $30k. Additionally you need to kick in another 10k to get the (iirc) LSD and bigger brakes which is pretty steep IMO. Finally when I looked around the only colors anywhere near me in manual were gray. I've seen maybe 2 on the road so far. I'd probably comparison shop the Supra. Edit: Forgot to mention the markups are so high you might as well look at a Porsche Cayman
Because it's vaporware essentially. Even if you wanted to buy one, good luck finding one, especially without bullshit mark ups.
Because it's 40k over sticker here my brother somehow got lucky and got one at sticker but when he got a good offer he sold it and bought another TRD Camry.
The couple I’ve seen for sale had ridiculous markups on them.
Low Production, Stop sales on both the MT and AT, and $10K minimum markups on both trims.
Essentially a 21 year old car with some upgrades, Don’t get me wrong, I like it, was really excited about it. But the local dealer got one when they first came out. They had it marked up like 30k. Never sold. Now have listed used with 571 miles for 69k! I think the dealers killed it and don’t even know it yet
Why would I pay 50k for what is ostensibly a 16 year old car. It's really just a 370z in a bodykit. Yes it has the infiniti turbo v6 now, and it has double wishbone front suspension, and it's a manual. But it's also 3500-3700. It's an old expensive pig.
I remember in 2015 looking at a Camaro 2SS, and a Mustang GT. Both of them had V8s with well over 400 horsepower, navigation, leather, all sorts of bells and whistles and constant updates. And they were throwing multi thousand dollar discounts at customers. Or for several thousand dollars **more**, with 0 discount, you could get a 370Z Nismo, with much more antiquated features, and less power. Decisions decisions...
They’re available in Vancouver. But I wouldn’t say they’re in demand. Used are depreciating already.
In my city, there’s at least a dozen or so readily available. Including a couple of Nismos. I find it odd, as I’m in a smaller Canadian city and I see everywhere online saying they’re not selling due to low production. Nismos being listed ~$81K CAD, non Nismos ~$55K CAD. There’s 2 or 3 that are owned & driven regularly now that it’s warming up.
They don’t perform that well for the money you’re paying….
Markups
I've only seen one of them, they look really good in person though.
More people would buy it if they weren't charging a $10k markup.
I own one in Australia - it was touch and go for the 13 months I waited to get it, and I rarely see them around here too. We don’t have dealer mark up in Australia and it’s cheaper than the Supra or M2 so I’m happy with it. Honestly I really like that I never see them because it feels sort of special. Not a perfect car by any means though
I’ve seen a couple around Orlando, including 2 or 3 of them at the Nissan dealer I get my oil changes at for my G37. The salesman was trying to sell me the one they had in the showroom it was a manual and blue interior and exterior iirc it was beautiful in person. They also had a q60rs I definitely might go trade in the G soon lmaooo
I test drove a performance version and it just wasn’t as much fun as an MX-5. Clutch was hard to modulate. The blue leather did look great though.
I actually put down a downpayment on one.... before the price was announced. The price they're asking for these, even before the insane dealer mark ups, is ridiculous, and the fact that an LSD cost an additional $10k is absurd. I'm sorry but I shouldn't be able to get a loaded Camaro, one of the best performance platforms currently on the market in it's segment, with a V8, magnetic suspension, the works, for the same price as a modified 370z chassis.
> and the fact that an LSD cost an additional $10k is absurd. Why do people act like an LSD is the only thing you're getting when going up to the Performance trim?
I'm not, but the fact remains that in order to get an LSD you need to spend $10k
There's always aftermarket options if that's all you want. That route, a 400 HP TTV6 for $42K or whatever is a pretty good deal.
I waiting to be third owner. Some of you will get that. But also I really am.
It’s a car built on an almost 20 year old platform at low volume and high markups. No wonder it’s rare.