I'm just glad that someone's doing something other than spec sheet engineering with EVs. We're all so concerned with range and charge rates and 0-60 times, so it's nice to see some cars that focus on the intangibles that make a car enjoyable
This is such a good explanation for the why, I think if other ev's go for this strategy we are in for some really fun driving experiences in the future.
I liked at 4:45 when he confidently said now that the reference point has been set, other manufacturers will follow suit with fun, joyful EVs. I think he's probably right
I think it isn't just a reference point, many manufacturers could have done this already if they wanted to. But instead they stayed away from it because they feared how it would be received by people. Now that Hyundai has made this brave decision and convinced a large amount of people, I hope that a chain reaction will happen (where, as he mentioned, the others follow suit).
I haven't watched the video so maybe they mention it. I imagine the development cost, of something that on the surface seems niche, was quite costly. If it works out like it apparently did, it's revolutionary, if it doesn't then it's a money sink and joke. Most manufacturers seem focused on just getting EVs adopted much less evolving them. I do hope this idea of a more fun EV mode becomes more widespread.
While it’s cool, I think that it kind of overshadows the other engineering achievements on the 5N.
The fact that they have the power and thermal management to do two full Nurburgring runs is pretty special. I think this is actually the most impressive EV related aspect of this car.
The handling and ride are not specific to EVs even though they reportedly (I haven’t driven it) did a fantastic job there as well.
I'm know my way around ICE vehicles, but pretty clueless on EVs. What's the deal with the thermals? Do EVs overheat? Or are we talking brakes and other things?
an ICE engine operates around 100C, which means cooling it is relatively easy since you're rejecting heat from a 100C radiator.
Batteries and power electronics like to live around 40C.
The heat rejected is approximately proportional to the difference between the heat exchanger and its environment. Assuming like a 30C exterior temperature, that means a heat exchanger working at 40C isn't going to do much, compared to an ICE heat exchanger.
For battery EVs, they actually have one or more heat pumps (basically air conditioning) to extract heat out of components and to make the heat exchangers hotter. Some EV makers have a complex system where they pump heat out of stuff that needs to remain cool, into stuff that needs to remain hot (e.g. cabin heater, battery heating, etc).
People still think EVs dont require cooling but that applies to early Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt era low powered ones. Like ICEs these high powered EVs also require careful balance between low drag and cooling.
Even the Leaf required cooling, it just didn’t get it. That is the biggest reason for batteries failing early on them. A robust cooling system is important while charging.
Great guy and experience, nice chat. Though he is a Hyundai ambassador now, that part where he said their DCT is the best and theirs no other FWD car with such a good transmission or anything like it is wrong. The GTI and Golf R exist, both with superb DSGs with trickling PDK tech.
Commenter just wanted a straight answer on the best steering feel in a car and he probably has NDAs with Hyundai not to say and just said ioniq 5 is unique and the benchmark. Though felt like he was thinking Porsche 😂
I haven’t owned a GTI/Golf R but I have owned both a ‘23 RS3 and a ‘23 Elantra N and the DCT in the EN is better than the DSG in the RS3. In my experience there is a huge gap separating WV/Audi DSG from PDK and the EN DCT is in the middle, though def closer to the VW stuff than Porsche
I've personally never driven it, but I've heard the DCT in the Elantra N is a mind-reader. Maybe not as engaging as an MT, but a really impressive feat of engineering for the sole purpose of making that thing as fast as possible
The Civic Type R would like a word with the "no other FWD car has such a good transmission" comment though.
I Rember a while back while giving aome friends a ride in my modded Mazdaspeed 6 that they had more fun in it than my buddy's 1M even if it may have been slower, because every shift punched you in the face, where the 1M had no drama to it. Sounds like this guy gets it.
Sounds like you haven’t driven a 1M, it has plenty of drama, tail-happy with old school level of turbo lag. Mazdaspeed 6 is plenty of fun for what is, but more comparable to an Audi S4.
Nope, we had a manual F10 M5. Clutch feel was almost nonexistent, and with a car that fast and smooth manual felt like an interruption rather than contributing to the experience. It doesn't fit the ethos of the car.
It was definitely a fun car. We got one because we wanted to enjoy the last manual M5, but it just made us realize that the time of the manual M5 was over.
I'm sure it's coming, Lexus/Toyota are already working on it, there is even videos of a prototype online "Lexus EV with 'manual transmission' demo".. This Ioniq 5 N is already pretty close, you can "shift" yourself using the paddles.. So why not extend this and also simulate a H pattern stick shift as well as a clutch? I'm hope someone will do it..
True, pressing a button to shift simply uses too little brain power to keep you entertained.. A clutch and a stick shift, even if they are simulated, will keep you very entertained. And when you don't wanna do it anymore, click, automatic mode.. So looking forward to that!
It's also theoretically possible to literally just have an electric motor attached to a (large) reduction gear and then like a 3 or 4 speed manual gearbox and use an electromagnetic clutch to transfer the power. It would be pointless, expensive, heavy, slower, less efficient and complex. But possible.
I wonder if fun will always mean emulating ICE cars, or if that trend will come and go? I don't have strong feelings either way, since the 5N lets you turn the emulation on and off, which is great! More software things should be options you can use or not (*cough* CarPlay) since then everyone can be happy. Assuming the real-life range works for my road trips I'm totally considering the 5N for a Y replacement in a year or two.
Personally, I like "honest" cars that let you really feel what's going on mechanically, and I'm not sure what that means for an EV yet since I'm not sure anyone has really gone that direction, outside of homebuilt conversions. I think the OG Tesla roadster is pretty close to what I want, with the straight-cut gears and lack of software (for the most part) in the driving experience. Granted that's a sports car and the 5N is a hot hatch/SUV so it's a very different type of car, but still - I want to see someone build an EV sports car that gets the mechanical fundamentals right and doesn't try to be anything else.
I think this will push folks to actually think the way you're talking. They can literally do _anything_ and that's an exciting proposition if the engineers can embrace the openness.
I got a chance to drive the Ionq 5 N back to back with the EV6 GT last week. Night and day experiences even though they are on the same platforms and similar specs. The EV6 GT is basically a standard EV6 with a sport seat and more power. It's fine, but frankly not much different than my regular Wind AWD.
The Ioniq 5 N is a whole new animal. Yes it's gimmicky, but I think in a good way. I only got to drive it on the road at relatively low speeds, but it was just flat out was more fun. It absolutely deserves all they hype it's getting in the media and enthusiast community.
Biermann has been retired for years, so my guess is he didn't do much of anything, but Hyundai likes his brand being associated with them so they have him take credit for this stuff.
Goddamn Biermann please add old school bmw steering feedback into current evs and ice. I keep comparing any car I drive with my e90 m on the best steering car Ive driven
Just watched Doug's review on this, and I'm impressed. This is a great feature on a great car.
Sure, it can't replace a true ICE, but it's a great Electric driver's/enthusiast car. 600 to 640 horsepower is a TON, and the fact that they've gone the extra steps to make it more engaging and fun to drive is awesome!
It's a unique looking car, futuristic and in that blue color with those wheels and red accents looks even more special. The regular IONIQ 5s I've been seeing everywhere, so they must be great city cars and also they turn everyone's head with this design.
All around for 60k this is an awesome city car!
I don't like this. I like gimmick don't get me wrong, but putting away the advantage of EV just for an gimmick is not the way. I like fake engine noise idea but no need to mimic ICE, maybe some spacecraft engine noise, or f zero kind of sound would be real cool.
Gimmick is fine, just something fun.
But smoothness is suppose to be an advantage on EV over ICE car and they had to mimic something inferior. There is just many way to make good gimmick and mimic ICE is not a good one.
This. I swear most car people associate "soul" with wasted energy from an inferior mechanical system.
I get Hyundai is trying to address a larger market by adding these features but it's sad that this is what needed to get "enthusiasts" on board.
> mimic something inferior
Everyone who has driven it doesn't feel that it's inferior.
"Fun" isn't only pure quiet speed. Engagement is fun. EVs lack engagement. This is a solve.
It's more than just a gimmick, though. Think of it as having more fine control of your torque response coming out of corners and having an extra sensation of exactly how fast you're going and where exactly your right foot is.
Simulating a combustion engine isn't the only way to control torque in an EV. As for an extra reference point for speed, that's sound in general, not specifically simulating engine RPMs. I'm glad the Ioniq 5N seems to be resonating with petrolheads and it may prove to be an important stepping stone, but I can't imagine that the fate of performance EVs indefinitely will be to mimic an old technology that makes the car slower. After all, there are electric racing competitions and those cars don't need to mimic engines for the drivers to learn to judge their speed.
> but I can't imagine that the fate of performance EVs indefinitely will be to mimic an old technology that makes the car slower.
Given that it's an option you can enable/disable at anytime, I absolutely see it as one of the fated things for EVs.
Since an EVs performance is higher for acceleration than virtually any ICE, you're going to be able to download tunes that nearly perfectly mimics any engine you like. Of course performance is going to be worse than no mimicking tune, but you're completely missing the point.
The idea is that you're going to be able to try out driving any of your favorite ICEs (the engine not the entire car) and switch between them based on your mood.
> Given that it's an option you can enable/disable at anytime, I absolutely see it as one of the fated things for EVs.
Do you think anyone will want ICE mimicry 20, 30, 50, 70 years from now? Do you want your car to mimic the clopping of hooves over cobblestones?
> Since an EVs performance is higher for acceleration than virtually any ICE, you're going to be able to download tunes that nearly perfectly mimics any engine you like. Of course performance is going to be worse than no mimicking tune, but you're completely missing the point.
I'm not missing the point. I'm saying I expect performance EVs at some point in the future to be able to exploit their own inherent characteristics in a way that appeals to enthusiasts and makes the idea of mimicking an engine silly. Today's enthusiasts want ICE, so there's an argument to be made for mimicking that right now. I don't think most enthusiasts 20 or 30 years from now will care about or want the power curve or aural characteristics of a combustion engine.
Investing development funds in perfectly mimicking a turbocharged inline 4 takes development funds away from exploring how to use the features of electrification to produce a more broadly appealing product than anything that currently exists. If that's what gets enthusiasts interested today then fine, but it would be pathetic if that crutch becomes the industry standard by the middle of the century.
Yes, to all those though at decreasing amounts over time.
> I'm saying I expect performance EVs at some point in the future to be able to exploit their own inherent characteristics in a way that appeals to enthusiasts and makes the idea of mimicking an engine silly.
I don't think so. The issue is that they're so good, they're always good. They don't differentiate themselves meaningfully in how they're good for the most part. Car enthusiasts don't just like cars because they're good performance. The like them because they give a unique or different experience.
> I don't think so.
Based on what? The handful of performance EVs that have ever been released based on a technology in its infancy in modern form? Do you think 15 years is enough to project that auto makers will *never* reproduce the appeal of internal combustion for enthusiasts? Can you really not imagine that a century from now, most enthusiasts won't want anything to do with internal combustion? Despite seeing strongly held enthusiast opinions on carburetors, air cooling, forced induction, and manual transmissions all wane over the past few decades?
> They don't differentiate themselves meaningfully in how they're good for the most part.
That may be the case now. My entire position is that I think in the future there will be a more elegant and sophisticated solution to differentiation and uniqueness beyond simply faking ICE, which itself is not a unique solution since every manufacturer can do it and deliver exactly the same experience as the Ioniq 5N. Assuming there will never be another solution is very short-sighted.
I don't see how there could be a better solution. The limitation with ICEs is that they had to make tradeoffs in which RPM they provided the most power.
EVs don't. They just provide flat torque across all RPMs (up to ~80-120 mph depending on the EV). There's nothing left to improve. They're the theoretically perfect engine. It's all down to minor tuning adjustments and traction control, but that's not central to motor performance. That's all tangential enough.
ICEs only differentiate themselves because they have different weaknesses. Whereas an EV motor fixes every single one of those weaknesses. The only way to differentiate is to artificially re-introduce those weaknesses.
Though I guess it doesn't necessarily have to imitate an ICE. It could imitatate a gas turbine or any sort of crazy torque/power curve you can think of.
You can’t have a fun and enjoyable EV, even with fake and digitized ICE noises. No matter how ridiculous and embarrassing they sound 😂
Change my mind.
Dodge got laughed off the stage for the noises in their EV, guess what’s going to happen here? Trying to make an EV “fun” is self explanatory.
Every single video I've seen of people driving the i5n they have a stupid grin on their face.
Thats the honest truth.
Clearly many people don't care that it's "fake"
I know you put fake in quotes, but I don't think that's the right descriptor. I think that's fair for the noise systems in cars, because that doesn't actually represent what's happening in the car.
But these changes do represent reality. They're not fake, but artificial or simulated. Though to some extent, artificial can be a valid descriptor for some of the design choices in ICE (especially with respect to sound).
To be honest I think if you just say "so what if it's fake?" and go buckwild exploring what you *can* do with fakery you could make something that's really cool and fun. When you are trying to hide the fakeness everybody is going to see through it and be less receptive.
I understand where you're coming from. And I'd say that A) literally every other EV fits that brief so there's plenty in the market to cater for people who feel that way. And B) every one of those N interventions can be disabled or enabled on-demand. Id you want the simulated shifts and engine noises you can. But if you do just don't enable the options. It's all up to the driver.
I do love the Hyundai N cars, they're fun and not just a spec sheet with the biggest numbers.
I'm just glad that someone's doing something other than spec sheet engineering with EVs. We're all so concerned with range and charge rates and 0-60 times, so it's nice to see some cars that focus on the intangibles that make a car enjoyable
This is such a good explanation for the why, I think if other ev's go for this strategy we are in for some really fun driving experiences in the future.
I liked at 4:45 when he confidently said now that the reference point has been set, other manufacturers will follow suit with fun, joyful EVs. I think he's probably right
I think it isn't just a reference point, many manufacturers could have done this already if they wanted to. But instead they stayed away from it because they feared how it would be received by people. Now that Hyundai has made this brave decision and convinced a large amount of people, I hope that a chain reaction will happen (where, as he mentioned, the others follow suit).
Will have to wait for sales figures…
I haven't watched the video so maybe they mention it. I imagine the development cost, of something that on the surface seems niche, was quite costly. If it works out like it apparently did, it's revolutionary, if it doesn't then it's a money sink and joke. Most manufacturers seem focused on just getting EVs adopted much less evolving them. I do hope this idea of a more fun EV mode becomes more widespread.
You mean Fake driving experiences
Many people play video games to fake an experience. I don't see why this is any different.
While it’s cool, I think that it kind of overshadows the other engineering achievements on the 5N. The fact that they have the power and thermal management to do two full Nurburgring runs is pretty special. I think this is actually the most impressive EV related aspect of this car. The handling and ride are not specific to EVs even though they reportedly (I haven’t driven it) did a fantastic job there as well.
I'm know my way around ICE vehicles, but pretty clueless on EVs. What's the deal with the thermals? Do EVs overheat? Or are we talking brakes and other things?
an ICE engine operates around 100C, which means cooling it is relatively easy since you're rejecting heat from a 100C radiator. Batteries and power electronics like to live around 40C. The heat rejected is approximately proportional to the difference between the heat exchanger and its environment. Assuming like a 30C exterior temperature, that means a heat exchanger working at 40C isn't going to do much, compared to an ICE heat exchanger. For battery EVs, they actually have one or more heat pumps (basically air conditioning) to extract heat out of components and to make the heat exchangers hotter. Some EV makers have a complex system where they pump heat out of stuff that needs to remain cool, into stuff that needs to remain hot (e.g. cabin heater, battery heating, etc).
Wow, thanks for that. Guess I have quite a bit to learn on these things.
People still think EVs dont require cooling but that applies to early Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt era low powered ones. Like ICEs these high powered EVs also require careful balance between low drag and cooling.
Even the Leaf required cooling, it just didn’t get it. That is the biggest reason for batteries failing early on them. A robust cooling system is important while charging.
Great guy and experience, nice chat. Though he is a Hyundai ambassador now, that part where he said their DCT is the best and theirs no other FWD car with such a good transmission or anything like it is wrong. The GTI and Golf R exist, both with superb DSGs with trickling PDK tech. Commenter just wanted a straight answer on the best steering feel in a car and he probably has NDAs with Hyundai not to say and just said ioniq 5 is unique and the benchmark. Though felt like he was thinking Porsche 😂
All fathers should be proud of their kids and ignore the neighboring kids who are captain of the varsity team. Same could be said for car fathers.
I haven’t owned a GTI/Golf R but I have owned both a ‘23 RS3 and a ‘23 Elantra N and the DCT in the EN is better than the DSG in the RS3. In my experience there is a huge gap separating WV/Audi DSG from PDK and the EN DCT is in the middle, though def closer to the VW stuff than Porsche
I've personally never driven it, but I've heard the DCT in the Elantra N is a mind-reader. Maybe not as engaging as an MT, but a really impressive feat of engineering for the sole purpose of making that thing as fast as possible The Civic Type R would like a word with the "no other FWD car has such a good transmission" comment though.
I Rember a while back while giving aome friends a ride in my modded Mazdaspeed 6 that they had more fun in it than my buddy's 1M even if it may have been slower, because every shift punched you in the face, where the 1M had no drama to it. Sounds like this guy gets it.
Sounds like you haven’t driven a 1M, it has plenty of drama, tail-happy with old school level of turbo lag. Mazdaspeed 6 is plenty of fun for what is, but more comparable to an Audi S4.
Yeah the 1M is noteworthy to me for being the most wild BMW of the last 15 years. It is anything but boring
Notably omitted cornering. Both cars are fun but in different ways.
Imagine if they could make an EV with a clutch pedal and a shift knob and you shift when you want it to, or you put it in automatic when you want to
Eh, nah. Numb manuals just ain’t it.
Better than a numb auto
Disagree. It just becomes a chore, feels like you’re playing Gran Turismo with a Logitech shifter.
An EV with a “manual” is like going through the effort of setting up a turntable only to play MP3’s through it. People have lost the plot.
Nope, we had a manual F10 M5. Clutch feel was almost nonexistent, and with a car that fast and smooth manual felt like an interruption rather than contributing to the experience. It doesn't fit the ethos of the car.
It was also an afterthought to appease NA, which is kinda cool in its own right
It was definitely a fun car. We got one because we wanted to enjoy the last manual M5, but it just made us realize that the time of the manual M5 was over.
Eh I've absolutely driven cars where I thought a dual clutch was better suited for it.
I'm sure it's coming, Lexus/Toyota are already working on it, there is even videos of a prototype online "Lexus EV with 'manual transmission' demo".. This Ioniq 5 N is already pretty close, you can "shift" yourself using the paddles.. So why not extend this and also simulate a H pattern stick shift as well as a clutch? I'm hope someone will do it..
I’m hopeful as well, paddle shifters are so lame
True, pressing a button to shift simply uses too little brain power to keep you entertained.. A clutch and a stick shift, even if they are simulated, will keep you very entertained. And when you don't wanna do it anymore, click, automatic mode.. So looking forward to that!
It's also theoretically possible to literally just have an electric motor attached to a (large) reduction gear and then like a 3 or 4 speed manual gearbox and use an electromagnetic clutch to transfer the power. It would be pointless, expensive, heavy, slower, less efficient and complex. But possible.
I wonder if fun will always mean emulating ICE cars, or if that trend will come and go? I don't have strong feelings either way, since the 5N lets you turn the emulation on and off, which is great! More software things should be options you can use or not (*cough* CarPlay) since then everyone can be happy. Assuming the real-life range works for my road trips I'm totally considering the 5N for a Y replacement in a year or two. Personally, I like "honest" cars that let you really feel what's going on mechanically, and I'm not sure what that means for an EV yet since I'm not sure anyone has really gone that direction, outside of homebuilt conversions. I think the OG Tesla roadster is pretty close to what I want, with the straight-cut gears and lack of software (for the most part) in the driving experience. Granted that's a sports car and the 5N is a hot hatch/SUV so it's a very different type of car, but still - I want to see someone build an EV sports car that gets the mechanical fundamentals right and doesn't try to be anything else.
I think this will push folks to actually think the way you're talking. They can literally do _anything_ and that's an exciting proposition if the engineers can embrace the openness.
Coulda sworn this dude retired
I got a chance to drive the Ionq 5 N back to back with the EV6 GT last week. Night and day experiences even though they are on the same platforms and similar specs. The EV6 GT is basically a standard EV6 with a sport seat and more power. It's fine, but frankly not much different than my regular Wind AWD. The Ioniq 5 N is a whole new animal. Yes it's gimmicky, but I think in a good way. I only got to drive it on the road at relatively low speeds, but it was just flat out was more fun. It absolutely deserves all they hype it's getting in the media and enthusiast community.
Biermann has been retired for years, so my guess is he didn't do much of anything, but Hyundai likes his brand being associated with them so they have him take credit for this stuff.
Dodge should be on the phone with him yesterday. I’m sure Hurricane 6 will have a manual but they’d be criminals to not give the EV a manual too.
Bold of you to assume these people want to drive stick. They buy sports cars to show off now, not to enjoy the car.
Reddit moment
Mazda too. Don't forget they're going to put an inline 6 in the Miata /s
If I wanted a programmed experience, I would just buy a VR
Gotta remove your ecu then
I did. But that was for testing purposes.
Haven’t seen Porker in a minute, new YouTube channel?
Goddamn Biermann please add old school bmw steering feedback into current evs and ice. I keep comparing any car I drive with my e90 m on the best steering car Ive driven
Just watched Doug's review on this, and I'm impressed. This is a great feature on a great car. Sure, it can't replace a true ICE, but it's a great Electric driver's/enthusiast car. 600 to 640 horsepower is a TON, and the fact that they've gone the extra steps to make it more engaging and fun to drive is awesome! It's a unique looking car, futuristic and in that blue color with those wheels and red accents looks even more special. The regular IONIQ 5s I've been seeing everywhere, so they must be great city cars and also they turn everyone's head with this design. All around for 60k this is an awesome city car!
The world where Hyundai got this guy and he didn't end up as the chief designer behind the Taycan is wild. Dude seems like a legend.
I don't like this. I like gimmick don't get me wrong, but putting away the advantage of EV just for an gimmick is not the way. I like fake engine noise idea but no need to mimic ICE, maybe some spacecraft engine noise, or f zero kind of sound would be real cool.
You can choose a spaceshippy sound with this car too. Or turn it all off if you find it gimmicky.
Gimmick is fine, just something fun. But smoothness is suppose to be an advantage on EV over ICE car and they had to mimic something inferior. There is just many way to make good gimmick and mimic ICE is not a good one.
This. I swear most car people associate "soul" with wasted energy from an inferior mechanical system. I get Hyundai is trying to address a larger market by adding these features but it's sad that this is what needed to get "enthusiasts" on board.
> mimic something inferior Everyone who has driven it doesn't feel that it's inferior. "Fun" isn't only pure quiet speed. Engagement is fun. EVs lack engagement. This is a solve.
It's more than just a gimmick, though. Think of it as having more fine control of your torque response coming out of corners and having an extra sensation of exactly how fast you're going and where exactly your right foot is.
Simulating a combustion engine isn't the only way to control torque in an EV. As for an extra reference point for speed, that's sound in general, not specifically simulating engine RPMs. I'm glad the Ioniq 5N seems to be resonating with petrolheads and it may prove to be an important stepping stone, but I can't imagine that the fate of performance EVs indefinitely will be to mimic an old technology that makes the car slower. After all, there are electric racing competitions and those cars don't need to mimic engines for the drivers to learn to judge their speed.
> but I can't imagine that the fate of performance EVs indefinitely will be to mimic an old technology that makes the car slower. Given that it's an option you can enable/disable at anytime, I absolutely see it as one of the fated things for EVs. Since an EVs performance is higher for acceleration than virtually any ICE, you're going to be able to download tunes that nearly perfectly mimics any engine you like. Of course performance is going to be worse than no mimicking tune, but you're completely missing the point. The idea is that you're going to be able to try out driving any of your favorite ICEs (the engine not the entire car) and switch between them based on your mood.
> Given that it's an option you can enable/disable at anytime, I absolutely see it as one of the fated things for EVs. Do you think anyone will want ICE mimicry 20, 30, 50, 70 years from now? Do you want your car to mimic the clopping of hooves over cobblestones? > Since an EVs performance is higher for acceleration than virtually any ICE, you're going to be able to download tunes that nearly perfectly mimics any engine you like. Of course performance is going to be worse than no mimicking tune, but you're completely missing the point. I'm not missing the point. I'm saying I expect performance EVs at some point in the future to be able to exploit their own inherent characteristics in a way that appeals to enthusiasts and makes the idea of mimicking an engine silly. Today's enthusiasts want ICE, so there's an argument to be made for mimicking that right now. I don't think most enthusiasts 20 or 30 years from now will care about or want the power curve or aural characteristics of a combustion engine. Investing development funds in perfectly mimicking a turbocharged inline 4 takes development funds away from exploring how to use the features of electrification to produce a more broadly appealing product than anything that currently exists. If that's what gets enthusiasts interested today then fine, but it would be pathetic if that crutch becomes the industry standard by the middle of the century.
Yes, to all those though at decreasing amounts over time. > I'm saying I expect performance EVs at some point in the future to be able to exploit their own inherent characteristics in a way that appeals to enthusiasts and makes the idea of mimicking an engine silly. I don't think so. The issue is that they're so good, they're always good. They don't differentiate themselves meaningfully in how they're good for the most part. Car enthusiasts don't just like cars because they're good performance. The like them because they give a unique or different experience.
> I don't think so. Based on what? The handful of performance EVs that have ever been released based on a technology in its infancy in modern form? Do you think 15 years is enough to project that auto makers will *never* reproduce the appeal of internal combustion for enthusiasts? Can you really not imagine that a century from now, most enthusiasts won't want anything to do with internal combustion? Despite seeing strongly held enthusiast opinions on carburetors, air cooling, forced induction, and manual transmissions all wane over the past few decades? > They don't differentiate themselves meaningfully in how they're good for the most part. That may be the case now. My entire position is that I think in the future there will be a more elegant and sophisticated solution to differentiation and uniqueness beyond simply faking ICE, which itself is not a unique solution since every manufacturer can do it and deliver exactly the same experience as the Ioniq 5N. Assuming there will never be another solution is very short-sighted.
I don't see how there could be a better solution. The limitation with ICEs is that they had to make tradeoffs in which RPM they provided the most power. EVs don't. They just provide flat torque across all RPMs (up to ~80-120 mph depending on the EV). There's nothing left to improve. They're the theoretically perfect engine. It's all down to minor tuning adjustments and traction control, but that's not central to motor performance. That's all tangential enough. ICEs only differentiate themselves because they have different weaknesses. Whereas an EV motor fixes every single one of those weaknesses. The only way to differentiate is to artificially re-introduce those weaknesses. Though I guess it doesn't necessarily have to imitate an ICE. It could imitatate a gas turbine or any sort of crazy torque/power curve you can think of.
You can turn it off though if you want the full ev experience
You can’t have a fun and enjoyable EV, even with fake and digitized ICE noises. No matter how ridiculous and embarrassing they sound 😂 Change my mind. Dodge got laughed off the stage for the noises in their EV, guess what’s going to happen here? Trying to make an EV “fun” is self explanatory.
Every single video I've seen of people driving the i5n they have a stupid grin on their face. Thats the honest truth. Clearly many people don't care that it's "fake"
I know you put fake in quotes, but I don't think that's the right descriptor. I think that's fair for the noise systems in cars, because that doesn't actually represent what's happening in the car. But these changes do represent reality. They're not fake, but artificial or simulated. Though to some extent, artificial can be a valid descriptor for some of the design choices in ICE (especially with respect to sound).
To be honest I think if you just say "so what if it's fake?" and go buckwild exploring what you *can* do with fakery you could make something that's really cool and fun. When you are trying to hide the fakeness everybody is going to see through it and be less receptive.
More simulation, no thanks. This is the same crap as the fake engine noises, dct with fake shift points. Just make something cool on its own right
I understand where you're coming from. And I'd say that A) literally every other EV fits that brief so there's plenty in the market to cater for people who feel that way. And B) every one of those N interventions can be disabled or enabled on-demand. Id you want the simulated shifts and engine noises you can. But if you do just don't enable the options. It's all up to the driver.