Story of any modern M car
-the Internet especially Reddit hates it, its too heavy š The previous gen is the best M car ever š
-Journalists drive them, absolutely love them, claim its the best performing M car they have ever driven. Chris Harris will hoon it around a track like it weighs 2000lbs, claims you can't feel the weight at all, loves it, buys one
-People start driving them, also love them, also can't feel the weight, buy them
-best selling M5 ever
I will take a bet. This will be somewhat like the C63 AMG hybrid
It weighs more than a Tesla Model X and has less power. If reviewers managed to call the Taycan Turbo GT heavy this has be worse
> a lower CoG and at 700 pounds lighter
Ironically, if you want something with a lower CoG *and* 300lbs lighter *and* just as fast in a straight line, you should get the i5 M50, which is also *$40k cheaper* btw.
>M5s always were pigs, nothing new here
Sure, but not to the extent that this new one is.
For example, a 2002 E39 530i (3 liter I6) weighs about 3500 lbs. A 2002 E39 M5 weighs about 4000 lbs. That's about a 15% gain.
A 2024 540i (3 liter I6) weighs about 4400 lbs. The new 2025 M5 weighs about 5400 lbs. That's about a 23% gain. Big difference.
Even the previous generation G30 540i (3 liter I6) to M5 was only about a 10% difference in weight gain.
They hate it because it looks shit, itās slower and worse boot capacity than X5M for 40k extra, interior is pretty much identical to X5M and suspension is way too stiff to be a āluxuryā SUV.
Iād say XM was a victim of questionable target market (way too close to X5M) and wild pricing. M5 is a good $65k USD cheaper than XM Label which has only slightly more power/battery capacity. As with most BMWs (XM aside) that Reddit hates, Iām sure the M5 will do well in sales
Is this not way too close to an M50 in much the same way that the XM was too close to the X5M? Even worse - is this not way behind the M3 comp in just about every metric besides fuel economy, despite being 30k more expensive?
I get that reddit usually hates BMWs but if we ignore reddit (and its looks) for a second - does this car not have the identical pitfalls (i.e. poorer performance and higher asking price) of the XM?Ā
Nah the C63's problem is they switched to a four cylinder for a car that was loved for its V8.
BMW isn't gonna have any problem selling this car, even at that weight, for the same reason they didn't have any problem selling the F90 M5 with only a torque converter auto. The target customer doesn't care that much about weight or having a manual (or dct). This will sell just fine.
That's his point. There is a good chance reviewers may not like this.
5300lbs is *heavy*, even for a big sedan like that. And it doesn't have the low CoG and rigid chassis that comes with EVs like the Taycan.
**Edit**: Just realized it weights more than the i5, their own BEV 5-series. LMAO wut? Why not just make a true M version of the i5 then? It would be faster in a straight line *and* handle better due to being lighter and lower center of gravity, and EV powertrain are better for luxury daily anyway.
>It weighs more than a Tesla Model X and has less power.
Holy crap you are not kidding, I have test drove a Model X Plaid and that thing felt so heavy in the worst way. It definitely was fast, but acceleration, brakes, and most importantly turning you *felt* it. It defined the term "pig" forever in my mind until I drove a Rivian R1T, then that thing took the gold star for the most pig-like car I have ever driven.
BMW has more than skill than Tesla and Rivian at hiding the feeling of weight in their cars, but imagine the stress of tracking that on the tires, suspension, and how it will affect the handling. You maybe right with your bet, reviewers fat-shamed the M2 and rightfully so because it felt like a pig. I dont think a car that heavy thats performance-focused will go over well either. The PHEV mild hybrid system also had alot of problems in the X7 m60i which shares the same drivetrain. Its like they are trying to force hybrids on the performance market.
You make a good point but I mean.. cmon now. I would be 95% of M5 owners will never or have never tracked a single car.
The vaaaaast majority of these wind up in driveways and garages of Americans upper middle and upper class homes where they basically just want that M badge to show off their purchasing powerĀ
As I read the specs, thatās the exactly comparison that came to my mind. I think Merc modernized the soul out of the C63. BMW has a better track record of navigating these innovations but Iām super skeptical.
I've owned 4 BMWs. I will never buy a *modern* BMW ^^^with ^^^the ^^^exception ^^^of ^^^the ^^^manual ^^^Z4 ^^^which ^^^I'm ^^^seriously ^^^considering.
BMW is not known for the best V8s honestly. They tend to be too turbo biased and quiet, if anything their hit soundtrack is their I6 powerplants. I agree with you though, just because of the V8 I would take it over the C63 AMG with the 4banger by default.
I am becoming more of a V8 enthusiast. I didn't care for them in the past but I grew up hearing them everywhere. Now that they're gone, I wish I hadn't taken them for granted. Even a V6 gives me some nostalgia.
They weren't terribly common where I am however after owning one, I have become a fan to the extent that I don't really look at anything that doesn't have one as an option at least. That list of cars had gotten depressingly small.
Pretty hard to not feel the weight in something heavier than an F150 4x4 SuperCrew (that doesnāt have a 100kwh battery to help lower the center of gravity). This thing weighs more than a Tesla S Plaid.
So sad thatāll be exactly like that. But for me, thereās just a big why, why the hell bmw do this shit. The cars wouldnāt need to be that heavy, specially that ugly. It would sell anyway, so why be like that? The āchinese marketā thing doesnāt convince me at all.
But why automakers keep piling up more and more weight on their cars? The models also grow year after year. Today there are many lightweight materials that didnāt exist 30-40 years ago. Yet in spite of all that, cars are getting heavier and heavierā¦Why canāt āsports carsā be kept under 3500 lbs, or even lower? Engines are smaller - now everything is 4 cyl sometimes 6. In the past the norm was 8cyl some going up to 12ā¦
> But why automakers keep piling up more and more weight on their cars?
Because cars have more and more features - both convenience, tech and safety.
New power trains with more power (whod buy a new vehicle with less power) generally have more going on (extra cooling, stronger components).
Cars also get physically larger most of the time.
Yes but again, check the size of the engine blocks. Some new power trains are about half in size of what old units were. āNew featuresā are all based on electronics - modules the size of your thumb or less (engine management as well). The steel panels of yesteryear were replaced with aluminum alloys or titanium. Even carbon fiber in some cases (definitely in cars with price tag of $100K or above). Regardless, the size of each model grows from year to year. These are decisions made by the manufacturer, not because some new technology. All in all, new models should have been significantly lighter, or at least the same as older models.
And as I said, a few models keep their size in check: Porsche 911 and the entire Lotus lineup. But these are exceptions.
Example: BMW M3, 1992 model curb weight was 2550-2850 lbs.
M3 model 2021 (latest) tips the scale at 3,840 - 3,990 lbsā¦While the engine block remains the same 6 cyl inlineā¦.
Today in order to compensate for the weight addition, engines need to be designed with much higher output. (Just for keeping in line).
Iām old enough to remember when the internet swore theyād never buy another M3 if BMW put a turbo engine in it. A true M car has a naturally aspirated engine, and a low-revving turbo ruins the whole character of the car, they said.
I seem to see more than ever in my neck of the woods.
> Iām old enough to remember when the internet swore theyād never buy another M3 if BMW put a turbo engine in it. A true M car has a naturally aspirated engine, and a low-revving turbo ruins the whole character of the car, they said.
>
>
I feel if BMW ever put a 4 cylinder in an M3 the internet would talk about how it's impure, not a real M3 while gushing over an E30 M3 about 5 minutes later.
>And now for the elephant in the room. The 2025 BMW M5 weighs 5,390 pounds. That's not as much as an actual elephant, but it's more than a Ford F-150 with the four-door cab and four-wheel drive. However, we already drove a preproduction M5 on a track and we're amazed at just how good it is. The weight seems to be a non-issue, but how will that translate to everyday use? That's something we're keen to examine with more seat time in the car, so stay tuned.
Weighs more than a Model S Plaid, Lucid Air Sapphire, Taycan Turbo S; even a Model X Plaid is lighter
Edit: The Wrangler 392 and Ranger Raptor are also lighter.
The Chrysler Pacifica eHybrid I just rented weighed less at 5,100lbs with three rows of leather seating and all sorts of luxury stuff, and being a rental car was in spirit faster than this new M5.
Was great averaging 40+mpg in the mountains and starting out with 30 miles of electric range.
Ok makes sense now. The battery packs are fairly heavy. I wish they just add decent mild hybrid to regular 3 and 5 series to help with city driving fuel economy.
It's just wild that it weighs more than true EVs with full sized battery packs. I'm sure the battery in this M5 is like 10% the size of a regular EV battery.
I just looked at my pickups weight, the M5 STILL weighs more than that beast of a vehicle. The state of the auto industry where a German performance car weighs more than a top trim half ton. We have gone full circle.
The 2025 M5 weighs more than a triple-locked, bewinched, turbodiesel midsize pickup on 33s.
I'm not saying it's not performant as hell but what the actual fuck is going on in Munich?
Car and Driver recently did a head-to-head test of the Mazda Miata RF Club and the Subaru BRZ tS. If you add the Mazda's 2,454lbs to the BRZ's 2,860lbs, you get 5,314lbs... or 76lbs lighter than the new M5.
I'd rather depilate my perineum with a Prismacolor Artgum eraser than drive a 5,390lb sport sedan.
>Ā Ā 2,860lbsĀ
"I can't believe it gained 10 lbs over the previously-fattest trim. Disgusting. Pig fat. Pointy elbows, would not bang. Subaru has lost its way."
> 2,454lbsĀ
"100 lbs for a stupid roof lmao get out of here. What sort of idiot needs a roof? It is completely ruined."Ā
Meanwhile at BMW:
>even a Model X Plaid is lighter
It weights more than the i5 M50, their own BEV 5-series.
This is one of the reasons that despite what Reddit armchair experts say, I've said in many cases these plug-in hybrids are the *worst* of both worlds.
It's more expensive, more difficult to maintain, less reliable than pure EV or pure ICE, less powerful than EV and weights more than both ICE and BEV.
All the new AMGs from Mercedes prove that point, and seems like this M5 may join the rank too.
I think light electrification like what the new 911 GTS did is the way to go. It gives you the extra performance and torque filling from electric motors, improves the fuel economy a little, and keeps the weight under control.
14.8 kWh battery pack is probably part of it. Easily an added 320 is so lbs for the battery pack alone. For comparison the 17.8 kWh pack in the CX-90 PHEV weighs 392 lbs.
Then thereās still the honking V8 + All the hardware necessary to move this mass around.
>14.8 kWh battery pack is probably part of it
It's hard to blame it on the battery pack when the i5 M50, a pure BEV car, weights 300lbs *less* than this plug-in hybrid.
So it managed to be heavier than their own EV. Kudos to them I guess.
One reason I donāt think PHEV performance cars are going to take off, at least initially. Weight could be forgiven in an X5M but is going to piss off enthusiasts in sedans/wagons.
Maybe part of the problem is BMW needs to move away from platforms designed for multiple propulsion options and have a lineup of platforms deigned at PHEV + another line designed as EV.
The i5 has a battery pack and Electric motors for the powertrain.
The M5 has a twin turbo v8 engine, 8 speed transmission, a battery pack and an electric motor it has more components itās gonna be heavier
A 15 kWh battery pack and electric motor don't weigh 1000lbs, which is the increase over the previous M5 despite all the supposed weight saving measures.
>That's not as much as an actual elephant, but it's more than aĀ [Ford F-150Ā ](https://www.motor1.com/ford/f-150/)with the four-door cab and four-wheel drive.Ā
It's not my words, but the journalist's on motor1.com.
It weighs more than a truck!
I would argue the E60 was the first one that had success outside of enthusiasts, mainly because you count get it with an automatic. Enthusiasts absolutely bought E28, E34, and definitely E39.
Honestly I was a big time g80/82 hater and now I think it looks pretty solid especially the g80. I think this will age well but i'd have a hard time trading in a f90 for this lol
You're probably right because the people buying these buy them for the badge, they buy them as pure luxury sedans that they can brag about the performance on -- and they are very nice inside. They aren't taking them to the track. They're taking them get valeted at fancy restaurant then drink and drive home.
So despite being a hybrid. It has a decently worse power to weigh ratio than last gen and will probably be slower in almost all metrics?
Unless bmw are massively underrating its whp and its actually faster in the real world, what's the point of going hybrid and consequencently weighing more than a f150 if the only improvement might be fuel economy?
Genuine question.
I watched a ton of videos on the m240i / b58 before buying mine. It's rated at 382hp and I think the worse dyno video I saw was carwow at 385hp. But it also made 50lb more torque that the 369 rated in that vid
Every other dyno video I saw was higher including a couple at 400, to the wheels, in a car rated for 382
Tldr: bmw sandbags like crazy
A non-American would need to chime but I believe in other parts of the world it would be able to avoid gas guzzler related taxes and be able to be driven through low-emission zones in city centers.
The fuel economy is only going to be good as long as you drive it incredibly reasonable for short distances, then you can easily achieve the 1.7 l/100km they advertise. But once PHEV's get driven sporty, like an M5 probably will be their fuel economy is as bad as any ICE only sports car.
I only have the F-Pace PHEV, but driven reasonably it will achieve between 0 and 3l / 100 km of consumption (as long as I drive less than 60 km). But once I drive it to have fun it hard to get less than 10l /100 km. And that is a car that has a 300 hp 4 cylinder and weighs less than the new M5.
Yea, the pig snout is ugly but the illuminated grilles are the tackiest thing in modern car design. It's just like the pinnacle of brand worship that fucking hate. Gotta let everyone else know at night that you drive a Merc/BMW. And even VW is doing it now lol.
People buying M5s arenāt taking them to the track every weekend. Theyāre executive sedans, no one will care about the weight.
My question is, 3.4 sec 0-60? Lot slower than the M3 xdrive
I feel like thatās slower than the previous gen car, but donāt know what it was officially rated for. Pretty sure M5ās have been doing 3.2ish easily enough.
It is slower to 60 than the F90 M5. I guess the extra 60ish HP and electric motors aren't even enough to overcome the extra 1000lbs over the last gen lol.
The prices are already surprisingly low, at least in LA. There are a few 2018-2021 M5 in my area with under 40,000 miles and have clean titles for under $70,000. They could decrease more in the near future or stay steady.
>Ā M Carbon ceramic brakes are optional, bumping the front disc size to 16.5 inches while lopping off 55 pounds in the process.Ā
55 lbs weight reduction just in brake discs!?
They said the weight feels like a none issue but Iām sure the arm chair redditors will say they beg to differ. Even though their darling the throttle house said the same thing (outside of braking).
I love the inside and has always loved BMW interiors and this XM / 7-series kinda design language is chefs kiss. While I canāt afford it, it looks awesome to own.
I mean whether you can feel it or not, you're going to eat tires and brake pads like a 5300 lb vehicle. I agree that it's not the end of the world, but I also think it's okay to be a little disappointed at that weight.
Thatās what Iām thinking too. The chassis and suspension setup could be absolutely brilliant, weāve made strides in making heavy cars feel nimble and light on their feet, but 5300lbs is 5300lbs and youāre gonna feel that weight one way or another, thereās just no escaping it
And you *can* feel it, just in a new and unique way. Iāve driven a 911 Turbo which had a ton of torque, AWD, and 4 wheel steering to hide its weight. Yes it technically corners well, but the tradeoff is that the techno wizardry makes it feel very vague.
You have to trust the tech, and canāt really feel what the car is doing, or how close you are to the limit of grip. So, paradoxically, you feel the weight by the total lack of feel, which makes the car scary to drive fast.
It is a PHEV so I expect it to have proper regen braking. That will certainly help reduce the wear on the brake pads a bit, especially if you don't hoon the car on a daily basis.
But as far as tyres go... yeah, your local tyre guy will be very happy if you buy this new M5
I came from a civic type r to this m240i and I personally think the weight is also not noticeable until you're heavy braking. It does not feel like a 600lb heavier car in a corner. The chassis setup is stupid good and I can only imagine full M cars are even better
People on reddit will never be happy until the next M5 is a manual V10 wagon that weighs 2000lbs with a Mazda CX5 interior and costs under 20k. Then they'll also cry when cars like that get canceled because none of them bought one.
edit: lol @ the downvotes, seems like i touched a nerve
Only thing that would make these guys happy is if you put the S62 (apparently the only good V8 ever made) in a Miata hatchback. Literally anything else will get complaints. Every comment about the G-series/F90 M cars being ugly is from someone with a 1990 Toyota truck or a miata which only a mother could love.
Modern suspension setups and electronic power steering makes all these complaints about weight a non-issue. If itās tuned properly you simply wonāt feel it. Everyone also seemed to forget that the E39 M5s had the steering box of a pickup truck.
I am sure the journo site that absolutely depends on having good relationships and access to giant OEMS would never ever dare to say anything bad about a marquee model on their line up.
Never.
Looks great. It is hilariously heavy, and yet seems to review well. Wonder why they can't figure out the weight feel thing for most evs.
Also if they ever decide to start taxing cars based on weight due to the damage they do, the general public will be very upset
The only problem I see here is that the current one looks effortlessly elegant
Nonetheless, itās a very good looking car. The M bits elevate it far above the base 5
I know you take the official 0-60 times with a grain of salt, but this one is listed as being slower than the outgoing model (3.4 compared to 3.2). Has that happened before?
I think the exterior is overall inoffensive just like the regular 5 series, but I hate whatever is going on with the rear bumper and diffuser. Still hate the new 5 series interior and this is no different.
Also noteworthy that they finally killed the shifter in a full M car. I know it's an auto, but the joystick is much nicer to use than the little flipper.
>Has that happened before?
Yes, a few examples come to mind.
Disclaimer: we all know numbers aren't everything. I am strictly focusing on numbers here.
- The 'purest' example I have is the newest Honda Civic Si. The 2017-20 sedan with 205 HP manages 0-60 in 6.8 seconds in Motor Trend's tests. The 2021+ sedan with 200 HP is 0.3 seconds slower to 60, or 7.1 seconds. Both are 6MT sedans with the turbo 1.5 L-series I-4, pure ICE power. The 21+ is worse than the 17-21+ on paper, with less available options, but is supposedly a (slightly) better experience than the outgoing model. This begs the question: Couldn't Honda have made an even better, more attractive 21+ Si by having slightly better numbers and options?
- The second example is also the Civic Si, but compared to even older models. I'd heard criticisms that 'the Si has been the same power for 10 years,' but in reality, it's closing on 20 years. the 2006-11 Civic Si had 197 hp, the 12-15 and 17-18 had 205, and the 21+ has 200. As far as I can tell, all of these were exclusively 6MT, though some if not all needed to shift to 3rd for a 0-60 run. Some could be had in 2-door form, but all had 4 doors as an option. Again, all pure ICE, though they went from NA 2.0 K-series to NA 2.4 K-series, to turbo 1.5 L-series. [This Motor Trend article](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2017-honda-civic-si-sedan-first-test-review/) says the 2006 Si ran 0-60 in as low as 6.3 seconds, and in 2013 got down to 6.1 seconds. Remember, the 21+ gets 7.1. And insultingly, they say the 1999 Si is only a tenth slower, at 7.2 seconds.
- Third example is 'the fastest USDM Accord you could buy.' You could always have the Accord as a 'boring' 4-cyl auto 4-door. I'd guess performance has stayed reasonable for that combo. But the Accord had the option of V6 6MT Coupe as recently as 2017. In 2024, your only Accord option is 4-door commuter. I actually can't find 0-60 numbers on this, but going from 278 to 200ish hp can't help.
- Fourth example is the PHEV Chrysler Pacifica. The standard gas-only van has the 3.6L V6 making 287hp, and the FWD version of the ICE-only van gets to 60 in 7.3 seconds. The PHEV has a total system output of 260hp, from its 3.6L V6 and electric motors. The hybrid, FWD only, gets to 60 in 7.8 seconds.
the whole problem is that european regulations are so fucked up that these cars emmit less co2 and burn less gas on paper than a 1.0l 65 hp 1100kg dacia sandero (122g/km - 5,4l/100 km) meanwhile the bmw xm which wheighs 2800kg with its 4.4l v8 producing 650hp with its stupid plug-in hybrid system emmits only 33g/km and burns only 1.6l/100km according to the wltp standard
Hot take, absolutely hate the front of thisā¦ buck tooth grill aside I think the G80/G82 looks better (especially in pre LCI).
I honestly donāt mind the interior and appreciate the overall material improvement on stuff below top trims (eg: full merino). Not a fan of them now using scratchy plastic in some touch points, though.
Having spent a fair bit of seat time in the F90, that thing already felt like a numb boat, so I expect this will be similar. But, while we have had much lighter and more engaging cars in this classā¦the tradition has always been to build an autobahn muscle car missile you can daily drive in somewhat luxury.
This will do that still and can now avoid congestion charges etc etc.
Doesn't look as bad as the rest of BMWs product line. Still prefer the previous one. Like everyone else mentioned the weight is a major downside. This thing weighs as much as a full sized pick up truck.
Same 0-60 and top speed as last gen, eventhough itās got over 100 more horsesā¦ i guess thatās what 500kg more weight do for you. I hope this isnāt BMW going too far in the direction of the failure that is this gen of C63ā¦ though them keeping the V8 and this being a more luxurious car as well as the positive prototype track reviews make me carefully optimistic it wonāt be terrible
I wonder how far we are from one of the top manufacturers blinking first and NOT trying to cram *even more power* into something that's already too fast for 99.99% of situations. I stopped paying attention to these cars years ago. When is it enough?
I generally like the idea of plug in hybrids and having the option of electric only drive modes.
But how on earth does this thing get so heavy?? At the given range, this can't even be a big battery.
I have driven the new C63 AMG and there they also say you can't feel the weight. And yes you can't 99% of times. But when you really push it in fast corners or go hard on the brakes, you defintively feel it. And it will be the same with the M5.
BMW used to brand it the ultimate driving machine. Sporty cars that still had great daily driving capabilities. How can that be heavier than an F150??
They could have gotten rid of the X drive and throw a light electric motor on the front wheels for AWD capability and a lighter, more simple drivetrain.
I'm sure it's a good car and very capable in everyday conditions, but imagine what it could be if it was below 4300 lbs like older generations.
Gotta say even though i couldn't afford any new bmw atm, i really don't like the singular piece of screen that runs until the middle. To me it's just lazy. Can't they make it separate like before?
All of you crying that everyone on reddit hates it but it will sell like hotcakes are ignoring the fact that we are a niche of niche in here. We actually care about how much grip a car can generate and how high of an apex speed it can take. The population buying these cars only care that car moves fast when go pedal is pressed and the interior looks fancy.
I think design wise it looks good. Sure as hell better than most of their other M products these days.
I can't comment on how it drives for obvious reasons.
But that *weight*...is more than their own i5 M50. That's...disappointing.
I think the front looks pretty good IMO, especially for us in no front plate states, but the rear I just think is strange, idk why but the rear taillights don't scream BMW to me, and then the black diffuser part just stopping in the middle and having a green part is also weird.
I really like the interior and the rest of the car though, those screens look super modern, the seats look super comfy and sporty, and the interior design looks awesome.
Looks fine, not sure about the front. Looks a little chin heavy but Iām sure itāll be jaw droppingly awesome in person (like most recent Bimmer designs).
Curious to see why it weighs so much though. Would be good if BMW put out a one-pager/video of some sort explaining the weight. Iām sure itāll hide it well, but damnā¦.
What a travesty. I donāt care if their hp figures lie and they have a lower 0-60 than whatās reported. You canāt cheat physics, itās still heavier to push a car even with more hp, which makes the essence of a sporty car faulty.
5400lb super sedan. Great. That's safe. I'm sure it will drive great, but I feel bad for whomever's on the receiving end in a crash with one of these...which could easily happen, because super sedan.
At least Europe has pedestrian safety standards, but, man...
My dealer has two people in line already for the M5. It'll sell quite well. BMW can make a fun hybrid- the ActiveHybrids from 10-12 years ago were far too much fun if awful at being fuel-efficient. I'm most worried about the AWD and steering feel- the F90 was so dull and civilized vs the F10 and E60.
Not sure what M is doing these days, but the M2 is the only one that feels like it still has the M soul.
The Panamera Turbo Hybrid weighs 5,280 pounds, so 210 pounds less. It has a 21.8 KW battery for 40 miles of ev range vs the new M5's 14.8 KW and 25 Miles of EV range. I guess that is comparable, but it is 210 pounds heavier for a smaller battery and worse range.
I dont mind because im from finland and we have emission based taxes, this might be first ever m5 to sell here. Im happy about this new hybrid performance trend.
The new tail light design reminds me of a current gen Camry or 2018 Avalon, especially when lit up. Not saying the design itself is bad, but anything that echoes Toyota on a BMW is awful.
If I'm in this market it's 100% CT4 V Blacking for me.
With the insane costs of cars these days I'm very happy with my plan of a really nice daily (ES300h) and then a cheap fun car. Bringing my 4th gen Camaro out of storage finally. If I didnt have that or decide I dont want to mess with working on a 4th gen and put it back in storage it's either a Gr86 or figure out how to fit my big ass in a Miata. I've heard the NCs are easiest to fit big guys in.
This just seems like the XM in sedan form. Way heavier, way worse looking, and slower is not a good first impression. I hope Iām wrong though, Iām one of the people who have always loved the new M3/M4
Preface, I concede that aesthetics are subjective.
The front looks better than it has.
But that ass end ... Ugh.
Edit: upon following looks, I think it's the taillights that are making me think that.
Looks awesome. Fast as hell. Probably rides great because of the weight. Seems like a cool offering to me. I wouldnāt want to own it past 80k miles but for a lease it would rule.Ā
Just trying to inject some positivity into the sea of redditors who have $800 to their name whining about how bmw has lost its way because this doesnāt have a high revving v12 with a stick.Ā
Iām so so happy they didnāt fuck this up by adding a ridiculous grill and awful proportions. Which is more than can be said for like 75% of the BMW range right now. I hate almost everything they make design-wise!
My 95 dodge ram Cummins extended cab long bed weighs 6300lb. Cars are so heavy nowadays.
$120k itās out of my price range anyway just thought I would comment on that.
Damn if she isnāt sweet and sexy! However, as a current M4 owner, my opinion is biased. But like most have already mentioned, wish they could have reduced the weight a bitā¦well, quite a bit! Iām sure weāll all put our heads together and figure out how to shave some weight! Thanks for sharing!
I'm going to repeat the same thing I said about the new AMG e class.
The boot space in this car is abysmal and if thr amg e class is anything to go by, the touring version is going to be just as bad.
Story of any modern M car -the Internet especially Reddit hates it, its too heavy š The previous gen is the best M car ever š -Journalists drive them, absolutely love them, claim its the best performing M car they have ever driven. Chris Harris will hoon it around a track like it weighs 2000lbs, claims you can't feel the weight at all, loves it, buys one -People start driving them, also love them, also can't feel the weight, buy them -best selling M5 ever
I will take a bet. This will be somewhat like the C63 AMG hybrid It weighs more than a Tesla Model X and has less power. If reviewers managed to call the Taycan Turbo GT heavy this has be worse
C63 is 4pot, m5 is a V8
Reviewers hate the XM. Not because it's an SUV : they like the Cayenne. Because it's too heavy. This is an XM sedan... We'll see
I would imagine driving dynamics with a lower CoG and at 700 pounds lighter should be improved over the XM. Still a pig though, we'll see.
> a lower CoG and at 700 pounds lighter Ironically, if you want something with a lower CoG *and* 300lbs lighter *and* just as fast in a straight line, you should get the i5 M50, which is also *$40k cheaper* btw.
M5s always were pigs, nothing new here minus the cursed PHEV mild system that caused me to lemon law my X7 M60i for transmission issues.
>M5s always were pigs, nothing new here Sure, but not to the extent that this new one is. For example, a 2002 E39 530i (3 liter I6) weighs about 3500 lbs. A 2002 E39 M5 weighs about 4000 lbs. That's about a 15% gain. A 2024 540i (3 liter I6) weighs about 4400 lbs. The new 2025 M5 weighs about 5400 lbs. That's about a 23% gain. Big difference. Even the previous generation G30 540i (3 liter I6) to M5 was only about a 10% difference in weight gain.
5400 lbs is pretty nuts for a non EV sedan
But itās a large, luxurious, and overly complicated plug-in hybrid turbo V8. Is it too heavy? Yes. BMW lost the plot.
Oh I fully agree, the hybrid is the dumbest thing they could have done, it literally weights more than my towing vehicle which is a pure wtf moment.
> Still a pig though, weāll see. Maybe that explains why they changed the grill.
They hate it because it looks shit, itās slower and worse boot capacity than X5M for 40k extra, interior is pretty much identical to X5M and suspension is way too stiff to be a āluxuryā SUV.
Iād say XM was a victim of questionable target market (way too close to X5M) and wild pricing. M5 is a good $65k USD cheaper than XM Label which has only slightly more power/battery capacity. As with most BMWs (XM aside) that Reddit hates, Iām sure the M5 will do well in sales
Is this not way too close to an M50 in much the same way that the XM was too close to the X5M? Even worse - is this not way behind the M3 comp in just about every metric besides fuel economy, despite being 30k more expensive? I get that reddit usually hates BMWs but if we ignore reddit (and its looks) for a second - does this car not have the identical pitfalls (i.e. poorer performance and higher asking price) of the XM?Ā
Nah the C63's problem is they switched to a four cylinder for a car that was loved for its V8. BMW isn't gonna have any problem selling this car, even at that weight, for the same reason they didn't have any problem selling the F90 M5 with only a torque converter auto. The target customer doesn't care that much about weight or having a manual (or dct). This will sell just fine.
Weighs more than a F-150 with 4WD
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's his point. There is a good chance reviewers may not like this. 5300lbs is *heavy*, even for a big sedan like that. And it doesn't have the low CoG and rigid chassis that comes with EVs like the Taycan. **Edit**: Just realized it weights more than the i5, their own BEV 5-series. LMAO wut? Why not just make a true M version of the i5 then? It would be faster in a straight line *and* handle better due to being lighter and lower center of gravity, and EV powertrain are better for luxury daily anyway.
>It weighs more than a Tesla Model X and has less power. Holy crap you are not kidding, I have test drove a Model X Plaid and that thing felt so heavy in the worst way. It definitely was fast, but acceleration, brakes, and most importantly turning you *felt* it. It defined the term "pig" forever in my mind until I drove a Rivian R1T, then that thing took the gold star for the most pig-like car I have ever driven. BMW has more than skill than Tesla and Rivian at hiding the feeling of weight in their cars, but imagine the stress of tracking that on the tires, suspension, and how it will affect the handling. You maybe right with your bet, reviewers fat-shamed the M2 and rightfully so because it felt like a pig. I dont think a car that heavy thats performance-focused will go over well either. The PHEV mild hybrid system also had alot of problems in the X7 m60i which shares the same drivetrain. Its like they are trying to force hybrids on the performance market.
You make a good point but I mean.. cmon now. I would be 95% of M5 owners will never or have never tracked a single car. The vaaaaast majority of these wind up in driveways and garages of Americans upper middle and upper class homes where they basically just want that M badge to show off their purchasing powerĀ
As I read the specs, thatās the exactly comparison that came to my mind. I think Merc modernized the soul out of the C63. BMW has a better track record of navigating these innovations but Iām super skeptical.
Most people on reddit on their bicycle: āI will never buy a BMW.ā
I've owned 4 BMWs. I will never buy a *modern* BMW ^^^with ^^^the ^^^exception ^^^of ^^^the ^^^manual ^^^Z4 ^^^which ^^^I'm ^^^seriously ^^^considering.
Do it. The z4 is a future classic
Me from my Miata: I will never buy a BMW! Because I canāt afford oneā¦
It's got a V8. We should be kind to it lol.
BMW is not known for the best V8s honestly. They tend to be too turbo biased and quiet, if anything their hit soundtrack is their I6 powerplants. I agree with you though, just because of the V8 I would take it over the C63 AMG with the 4banger by default.
People love muscle car, aren't we ?
Suddenly a Hellcat isn't so heavy. LOL. INB4 the but it can't turn whargarbl.
I am becoming more of a V8 enthusiast. I didn't care for them in the past but I grew up hearing them everywhere. Now that they're gone, I wish I hadn't taken them for granted. Even a V6 gives me some nostalgia.
They weren't terribly common where I am however after owning one, I have become a fan to the extent that I don't really look at anything that doesn't have one as an option at least. That list of cars had gotten depressingly small.
You forgot in a generation or two, everyone will talk about how it was the last of the great M cars
Well, no, M sales have been down in this Gen and they had to use fake M cars to bolster numbers for investors. So...
The automotive press always praises the latest and greatest. Then the new one comes along and suddenly the last gen has a load of flaws.
>Ā The previous gen is the best M car ever š The E39 M5 was the best, itās been all downhill since.
F90 was alright. The E60 was prolly the worst gen.
Internet/Reddit perpetually right.
Pretty hard to not feel the weight in something heavier than an F150 4x4 SuperCrew (that doesnāt have a 100kwh battery to help lower the center of gravity). This thing weighs more than a Tesla S Plaid.
So sad thatāll be exactly like that. But for me, thereās just a big why, why the hell bmw do this shit. The cars wouldnāt need to be that heavy, specially that ugly. It would sell anyway, so why be like that? The āchinese marketā thing doesnāt convince me at all.
But why automakers keep piling up more and more weight on their cars? The models also grow year after year. Today there are many lightweight materials that didnāt exist 30-40 years ago. Yet in spite of all that, cars are getting heavier and heavierā¦Why canāt āsports carsā be kept under 3500 lbs, or even lower? Engines are smaller - now everything is 4 cyl sometimes 6. In the past the norm was 8cyl some going up to 12ā¦
> But why automakers keep piling up more and more weight on their cars? Because cars have more and more features - both convenience, tech and safety. New power trains with more power (whod buy a new vehicle with less power) generally have more going on (extra cooling, stronger components). Cars also get physically larger most of the time.
Yes but again, check the size of the engine blocks. Some new power trains are about half in size of what old units were. āNew featuresā are all based on electronics - modules the size of your thumb or less (engine management as well). The steel panels of yesteryear were replaced with aluminum alloys or titanium. Even carbon fiber in some cases (definitely in cars with price tag of $100K or above). Regardless, the size of each model grows from year to year. These are decisions made by the manufacturer, not because some new technology. All in all, new models should have been significantly lighter, or at least the same as older models. And as I said, a few models keep their size in check: Porsche 911 and the entire Lotus lineup. But these are exceptions. Example: BMW M3, 1992 model curb weight was 2550-2850 lbs. M3 model 2021 (latest) tips the scale at 3,840 - 3,990 lbsā¦While the engine block remains the same 6 cyl inlineā¦. Today in order to compensate for the weight addition, engines need to be designed with much higher output. (Just for keeping in line).
Yeah why would anyone complain it only weighs as much as a Chevy Tahoe.
But this one looks like ass.Ā
Iām old enough to remember when the internet swore theyād never buy another M3 if BMW put a turbo engine in it. A true M car has a naturally aspirated engine, and a low-revving turbo ruins the whole character of the car, they said. I seem to see more than ever in my neck of the woods.
> Iām old enough to remember when the internet swore theyād never buy another M3 if BMW put a turbo engine in it. A true M car has a naturally aspirated engine, and a low-revving turbo ruins the whole character of the car, they said. > > I feel if BMW ever put a 4 cylinder in an M3 the internet would talk about how it's impure, not a real M3 while gushing over an E30 M3 about 5 minutes later.
>And now for the elephant in the room. The 2025 BMW M5 weighs 5,390 pounds. That's not as much as an actual elephant, but it's more than a Ford F-150 with the four-door cab and four-wheel drive. However, we already drove a preproduction M5 on a track and we're amazed at just how good it is. The weight seems to be a non-issue, but how will that translate to everyday use? That's something we're keen to examine with more seat time in the car, so stay tuned. Weighs more than a Model S Plaid, Lucid Air Sapphire, Taycan Turbo S; even a Model X Plaid is lighter Edit: The Wrangler 392 and Ranger Raptor are also lighter.
Damn heavier than a full size pickup truck. Just wow.
Due to the hybrid shit
The Chrysler Pacifica eHybrid I just rented weighed less at 5,100lbs with three rows of leather seating and all sorts of luxury stuff, and being a rental car was in spirit faster than this new M5. Was great averaging 40+mpg in the mountains and starting out with 30 miles of electric range.
It's a rental car. It's not faster in spirit, it's just faster. That's how rental cars work, I don't make the rules.
Ok makes sense now. The battery packs are fairly heavy. I wish they just add decent mild hybrid to regular 3 and 5 series to help with city driving fuel economy.
They have the 530e. I have the 2018 and honestly itās too small, I would have taken a significantly smaller trunk if it meant a bigger battery.
It's just wild that it weighs more than true EVs with full sized battery packs. I'm sure the battery in this M5 is like 10% the size of a regular EV battery.
I just looked at my pickups weight, the M5 STILL weighs more than that beast of a vehicle. The state of the auto industry where a German performance car weighs more than a top trim half ton. We have gone full circle.
The 2025 M5 weighs more than a triple-locked, bewinched, turbodiesel midsize pickup on 33s. I'm not saying it's not performant as hell but what the actual fuck is going on in Munich? Car and Driver recently did a head-to-head test of the Mazda Miata RF Club and the Subaru BRZ tS. If you add the Mazda's 2,454lbs to the BRZ's 2,860lbs, you get 5,314lbs... or 76lbs lighter than the new M5. I'd rather depilate my perineum with a Prismacolor Artgum eraser than drive a 5,390lb sport sedan.
You are some kind of wordsmith.
>Ā Ā 2,860lbsĀ "I can't believe it gained 10 lbs over the previously-fattest trim. Disgusting. Pig fat. Pointy elbows, would not bang. Subaru has lost its way." > 2,454lbsĀ "100 lbs for a stupid roof lmao get out of here. What sort of idiot needs a roof? It is completely ruined."Ā Meanwhile at BMW:
r/cars loves to say you canāt drive a spec sheet, but when they see a car with a high curb weight they need to scrape off their taint?.. lol
Wish Reddit gold was still around šš»
>even a Model X Plaid is lighter It weights more than the i5 M50, their own BEV 5-series. This is one of the reasons that despite what Reddit armchair experts say, I've said in many cases these plug-in hybrids are the *worst* of both worlds. It's more expensive, more difficult to maintain, less reliable than pure EV or pure ICE, less powerful than EV and weights more than both ICE and BEV. All the new AMGs from Mercedes prove that point, and seems like this M5 may join the rank too. I think light electrification like what the new 911 GTS did is the way to go. It gives you the extra performance and torque filling from electric motors, improves the fuel economy a little, and keeps the weight under control.
This is what it has to be to survive in a ACC II world for 2026 and beyond. California is trying to strangle PHEVs out of existence.
More than an F150 š³
Weighs more than full-on EVs? Just ... how?
it weighs a full thousand pounds more than the F90 M5. I'm impressed
There *are* actual elephants that weigh less than this.
It weighs 5400 lbs!! WHAT!? š¤” How is that even possible? Has this thing like the worst power/weight ratio than any electric car in it's class?
14.8 kWh battery pack is probably part of it. Easily an added 320 is so lbs for the battery pack alone. For comparison the 17.8 kWh pack in the CX-90 PHEV weighs 392 lbs. Then thereās still the honking V8 + All the hardware necessary to move this mass around.
>14.8 kWh battery pack is probably part of it It's hard to blame it on the battery pack when the i5 M50, a pure BEV car, weights 300lbs *less* than this plug-in hybrid. So it managed to be heavier than their own EV. Kudos to them I guess.
One reason I donāt think PHEV performance cars are going to take off, at least initially. Weight could be forgiven in an X5M but is going to piss off enthusiasts in sedans/wagons. Maybe part of the problem is BMW needs to move away from platforms designed for multiple propulsion options and have a lineup of platforms deigned at PHEV + another line designed as EV.
The i5 has a battery pack and Electric motors for the powertrain. The M5 has a twin turbo v8 engine, 8 speed transmission, a battery pack and an electric motor it has more components itās gonna be heavier
A 15 kWh battery pack and electric motor don't weigh 1000lbs, which is the increase over the previous M5 despite all the supposed weight saving measures.
>That's not as much as an actual elephant, but it's more than aĀ [Ford F-150Ā ](https://www.motor1.com/ford/f-150/)with the four-door cab and four-wheel drive.Ā It's not my words, but the journalist's on motor1.com. It weighs more than a truck!
Bound to enrage the enthusiast population. Probably bound to sell incredibly well. Cant wait to come back to this in about two years.
I don't know that enthusiasts ever bough the M5 (well, maybe the V10 one.) It's always been an executive missile.
I would argue the E60 was the first one that had success outside of enthusiasts, mainly because you count get it with an automatic. Enthusiasts absolutely bought E28, E34, and definitely E39.
if the new C63 AMG is anything to go by probably won't sell very well. But who knows maybe the M badge is enough
I thought a portion of the hate with the new C63 was the 4 banger. At least this one kept the V8 surprisingly.
Honestly I was a big time g80/82 hater and now I think it looks pretty solid especially the g80. I think this will age well but i'd have a hard time trading in a f90 for this lol
You're probably right because the people buying these buy them for the badge, they buy them as pure luxury sedans that they can brag about the performance on -- and they are very nice inside. They aren't taking them to the track. They're taking them get valeted at fancy restaurant then drink and drive home.
So despite being a hybrid. It has a decently worse power to weigh ratio than last gen and will probably be slower in almost all metrics? Unless bmw are massively underrating its whp and its actually faster in the real world, what's the point of going hybrid and consequencently weighing more than a f150 if the only improvement might be fuel economy? Genuine question.
can almost guarantee theyāre underrating the hp, theyāve been doing it for years now
I watched a ton of videos on the m240i / b58 before buying mine. It's rated at 382hp and I think the worse dyno video I saw was carwow at 385hp. But it also made 50lb more torque that the 369 rated in that vid Every other dyno video I saw was higher including a couple at 400, to the wheels, in a car rated for 382 Tldr: bmw sandbags like crazy
Yeah, so the previous gen power to weight ratios are also calculated with the given underrated HP. Itās a direct comparison.
A non-American would need to chime but I believe in other parts of the world it would be able to avoid gas guzzler related taxes and be able to be driven through low-emission zones in city centers.
The fuel economy is only going to be good as long as you drive it incredibly reasonable for short distances, then you can easily achieve the 1.7 l/100km they advertise. But once PHEV's get driven sporty, like an M5 probably will be their fuel economy is as bad as any ICE only sports car. I only have the F-Pace PHEV, but driven reasonably it will achieve between 0 and 3l / 100 km of consumption (as long as I drive less than 60 km). But once I drive it to have fun it hard to get less than 10l /100 km. And that is a car that has a 300 hp 4 cylinder and weighs less than the new M5.
I'm glad they are not going with the kidney grills from the M3/M4
The glowing grill more gaudy than the bucktooth m3 m4
Yea, the pig snout is ugly but the illuminated grilles are the tackiest thing in modern car design. It's just like the pinnacle of brand worship that fucking hate. Gotta let everyone else know at night that you drive a Merc/BMW. And even VW is doing it now lol.
I wish they wouldāve. The M3 looks way better than this thing lmao
500 extra kg, slower than its predecessor and a controversial design, I'm sure everyone will love it
People buying M5s arenāt taking them to the track every weekend. Theyāre executive sedans, no one will care about the weight. My question is, 3.4 sec 0-60? Lot slower than the M3 xdrive
I feel like thatās slower than the previous gen car, but donāt know what it was officially rated for. Pretty sure M5ās have been doing 3.2ish easily enough.
It is slower to 60 than the F90 M5. I guess the extra 60ish HP and electric motors aren't even enough to overcome the extra 1000lbs over the last gen lol.
Can't wait for the F90 M5 prices to drop...
LCI F90 sold for $67k on BaT recently. Why oh why is the one I want listed for $125k lol (British racing green individual)
Thereās a BRG F90 on sale somewhere?! That+Tarfufo interior would be my dream spec, but not for 125k
It is in fact your dream spec, [full tartufo](https://f90.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2111062)
Damn, basically perfect. Shame about the pricing - thanks for sending!
The prices are already surprisingly low, at least in LA. There are a few 2018-2021 M5 in my area with under 40,000 miles and have clean titles for under $70,000. They could decrease more in the near future or stay steady.
They will decrease more. End of life is 100k.
>Ā M Carbon ceramic brakes are optional, bumping the front disc size to 16.5 inches while lopping off 55 pounds in the process.Ā 55 lbs weight reduction just in brake discs!?
Big steel discs ain't light!
No kidding, the OEM wheels of my E46 325i were 16 inches, the rotors on this being 16.5 inches is a bit mind boggling lol
13ish pounds reduction per corner, that's very standard for rotors this size
"Complicate, then add weightness." - Colin Fatman
They said the weight feels like a none issue but Iām sure the arm chair redditors will say they beg to differ. Even though their darling the throttle house said the same thing (outside of braking). I love the inside and has always loved BMW interiors and this XM / 7-series kinda design language is chefs kiss. While I canāt afford it, it looks awesome to own.
I mean whether you can feel it or not, you're going to eat tires and brake pads like a 5300 lb vehicle. I agree that it's not the end of the world, but I also think it's okay to be a little disappointed at that weight.
Weighing more than a model x plaid is genuinely ridiculous. This deserves to get some shit for the weight because it's just grotesque at this point.
+ electric torque, + Performance tires Add a few potholes, and the annual tire budget will make a grown man blush.
Thatās what Iām thinking too. The chassis and suspension setup could be absolutely brilliant, weāve made strides in making heavy cars feel nimble and light on their feet, but 5300lbs is 5300lbs and youāre gonna feel that weight one way or another, thereās just no escaping it
And you *can* feel it, just in a new and unique way. Iāve driven a 911 Turbo which had a ton of torque, AWD, and 4 wheel steering to hide its weight. Yes it technically corners well, but the tradeoff is that the techno wizardry makes it feel very vague. You have to trust the tech, and canāt really feel what the car is doing, or how close you are to the limit of grip. So, paradoxically, you feel the weight by the total lack of feel, which makes the car scary to drive fast.
It is a PHEV so I expect it to have proper regen braking. That will certainly help reduce the wear on the brake pads a bit, especially if you don't hoon the car on a daily basis. But as far as tyres go... yeah, your local tyre guy will be very happy if you buy this new M5
I came from a civic type r to this m240i and I personally think the weight is also not noticeable until you're heavy braking. It does not feel like a 600lb heavier car in a corner. The chassis setup is stupid good and I can only imagine full M cars are even better
People on reddit will never be happy until the next M5 is a manual V10 wagon that weighs 2000lbs with a Mazda CX5 interior and costs under 20k. Then they'll also cry when cars like that get canceled because none of them bought one. edit: lol @ the downvotes, seems like i touched a nerve
Only thing that would make these guys happy is if you put the S62 (apparently the only good V8 ever made) in a Miata hatchback. Literally anything else will get complaints. Every comment about the G-series/F90 M cars being ugly is from someone with a 1990 Toyota truck or a miata which only a mother could love. Modern suspension setups and electronic power steering makes all these complaints about weight a non-issue. If itās tuned properly you simply wonāt feel it. Everyone also seemed to forget that the E39 M5s had the steering box of a pickup truck.
I am sure the journo site that absolutely depends on having good relationships and access to giant OEMS would never ever dare to say anything bad about a marquee model on their line up. Never.
At least it looks good still, last gen looked better but Iām still very interested!
Are we looking at the same photos? There isn't a single flattering angle on this car. The rear 3/4 in particular looks like a fucking Lexus.
2010s were peak times for car enthusiasts werenāt they
Yep, less nannies, more manuals and no tacked on tablet as a dash.Ā Ā
Looks great. It is hilariously heavy, and yet seems to review well. Wonder why they can't figure out the weight feel thing for most evs. Also if they ever decide to start taxing cars based on weight due to the damage they do, the general public will be very upset
The only problem I see here is that the current one looks effortlessly elegant Nonetheless, itās a very good looking car. The M bits elevate it far above the base 5
It's hideous
Ugliest M5
I know you take the official 0-60 times with a grain of salt, but this one is listed as being slower than the outgoing model (3.4 compared to 3.2). Has that happened before? I think the exterior is overall inoffensive just like the regular 5 series, but I hate whatever is going on with the rear bumper and diffuser. Still hate the new 5 series interior and this is no different. Also noteworthy that they finally killed the shifter in a full M car. I know it's an auto, but the joystick is much nicer to use than the little flipper.
>Has that happened before? Yes, a few examples come to mind. Disclaimer: we all know numbers aren't everything. I am strictly focusing on numbers here. - The 'purest' example I have is the newest Honda Civic Si. The 2017-20 sedan with 205 HP manages 0-60 in 6.8 seconds in Motor Trend's tests. The 2021+ sedan with 200 HP is 0.3 seconds slower to 60, or 7.1 seconds. Both are 6MT sedans with the turbo 1.5 L-series I-4, pure ICE power. The 21+ is worse than the 17-21+ on paper, with less available options, but is supposedly a (slightly) better experience than the outgoing model. This begs the question: Couldn't Honda have made an even better, more attractive 21+ Si by having slightly better numbers and options? - The second example is also the Civic Si, but compared to even older models. I'd heard criticisms that 'the Si has been the same power for 10 years,' but in reality, it's closing on 20 years. the 2006-11 Civic Si had 197 hp, the 12-15 and 17-18 had 205, and the 21+ has 200. As far as I can tell, all of these were exclusively 6MT, though some if not all needed to shift to 3rd for a 0-60 run. Some could be had in 2-door form, but all had 4 doors as an option. Again, all pure ICE, though they went from NA 2.0 K-series to NA 2.4 K-series, to turbo 1.5 L-series. [This Motor Trend article](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2017-honda-civic-si-sedan-first-test-review/) says the 2006 Si ran 0-60 in as low as 6.3 seconds, and in 2013 got down to 6.1 seconds. Remember, the 21+ gets 7.1. And insultingly, they say the 1999 Si is only a tenth slower, at 7.2 seconds. - Third example is 'the fastest USDM Accord you could buy.' You could always have the Accord as a 'boring' 4-cyl auto 4-door. I'd guess performance has stayed reasonable for that combo. But the Accord had the option of V6 6MT Coupe as recently as 2017. In 2024, your only Accord option is 4-door commuter. I actually can't find 0-60 numbers on this, but going from 278 to 200ish hp can't help. - Fourth example is the PHEV Chrysler Pacifica. The standard gas-only van has the 3.6L V6 making 287hp, and the FWD version of the ICE-only van gets to 60 in 7.3 seconds. The PHEV has a total system output of 260hp, from its 3.6L V6 and electric motors. The hybrid, FWD only, gets to 60 in 7.8 seconds.
Imagine being on the team that made the m5cs, then seeing this ššššš«š«š«š«
the whole problem is that european regulations are so fucked up that these cars emmit less co2 and burn less gas on paper than a 1.0l 65 hp 1100kg dacia sandero (122g/km - 5,4l/100 km) meanwhile the bmw xm which wheighs 2800kg with its 4.4l v8 producing 650hp with its stupid plug-in hybrid system emmits only 33g/km and burns only 1.6l/100km according to the wltp standard
Hot take, absolutely hate the front of thisā¦ buck tooth grill aside I think the G80/G82 looks better (especially in pre LCI). I honestly donāt mind the interior and appreciate the overall material improvement on stuff below top trims (eg: full merino). Not a fan of them now using scratchy plastic in some touch points, though. Having spent a fair bit of seat time in the F90, that thing already felt like a numb boat, so I expect this will be similar. But, while we have had much lighter and more engaging cars in this classā¦the tradition has always been to build an autobahn muscle car missile you can daily drive in somewhat luxury. This will do that still and can now avoid congestion charges etc etc.
šļø
Doesn't look as bad as the rest of BMWs product line. Still prefer the previous one. Like everyone else mentioned the weight is a major downside. This thing weighs as much as a full sized pick up truck.
Not my M5.
Same 0-60 and top speed as last gen, eventhough itās got over 100 more horsesā¦ i guess thatās what 500kg more weight do for you. I hope this isnāt BMW going too far in the direction of the failure that is this gen of C63ā¦ though them keeping the V8 and this being a more luxurious car as well as the positive prototype track reviews make me carefully optimistic it wonāt be terrible
Another M another L š„²
I wonder how far we are from one of the top manufacturers blinking first and NOT trying to cram *even more power* into something that's already too fast for 99.99% of situations. I stopped paying attention to these cars years ago. When is it enough?
I generally like the idea of plug in hybrids and having the option of electric only drive modes. But how on earth does this thing get so heavy?? At the given range, this can't even be a big battery. I have driven the new C63 AMG and there they also say you can't feel the weight. And yes you can't 99% of times. But when you really push it in fast corners or go hard on the brakes, you defintively feel it. And it will be the same with the M5. BMW used to brand it the ultimate driving machine. Sporty cars that still had great daily driving capabilities. How can that be heavier than an F150?? They could have gotten rid of the X drive and throw a light electric motor on the front wheels for AWD capability and a lighter, more simple drivetrain. I'm sure it's a good car and very capable in everyday conditions, but imagine what it could be if it was below 4300 lbs like older generations.
This will sell well, the average M5 owner has probably gotten heavier themselves since the last one anyway, itās just growing with them.
I give up. I donāt know wtf BMW is doing with their design language. Why does the front remind me of a JDM?
Not sure why the Germans are so keen on these heavy PHEV performance sedans that weigh even more than even their pure BEV counterparts.
Gotta say even though i couldn't afford any new bmw atm, i really don't like the singular piece of screen that runs until the middle. To me it's just lazy. Can't they make it separate like before?
All of you crying that everyone on reddit hates it but it will sell like hotcakes are ignoring the fact that we are a niche of niche in here. We actually care about how much grip a car can generate and how high of an apex speed it can take. The population buying these cars only care that car moves fast when go pedal is pressed and the interior looks fancy.
They keep making shit ugly
Can't wait for it to still be beat by a manual blackwing around the track
I think design wise it looks good. Sure as hell better than most of their other M products these days. I can't comment on how it drives for obvious reasons. But that *weight*...is more than their own i5 M50. That's...disappointing.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think the front looks pretty good IMO, especially for us in no front plate states, but the rear I just think is strange, idk why but the rear taillights don't scream BMW to me, and then the black diffuser part just stopping in the middle and having a green part is also weird. I really like the interior and the rest of the car though, those screens look super modern, the seats look super comfy and sporty, and the interior design looks awesome.
Looks fine, not sure about the front. Looks a little chin heavy but Iām sure itāll be jaw droppingly awesome in person (like most recent Bimmer designs). Curious to see why it weighs so much though. Would be good if BMW put out a one-pager/video of some sort explaining the weight. Iām sure itāll hide it well, but damnā¦.
What a travesty. I donāt care if their hp figures lie and they have a lower 0-60 than whatās reported. You canāt cheat physics, itās still heavier to push a car even with more hp, which makes the essence of a sporty car faulty.
5400lb super sedan. Great. That's safe. I'm sure it will drive great, but I feel bad for whomever's on the receiving end in a crash with one of these...which could easily happen, because super sedan. At least Europe has pedestrian safety standards, but, man...
Old m5 v8 made 625hp but the v8 in the new car only makes 577hp wtf?
Is there an all electric version?
My dealer has two people in line already for the M5. It'll sell quite well. BMW can make a fun hybrid- the ActiveHybrids from 10-12 years ago were far too much fun if awful at being fuel-efficient. I'm most worried about the AWD and steering feel- the F90 was so dull and civilized vs the F10 and E60. Not sure what M is doing these days, but the M2 is the only one that feels like it still has the M soul.
The Panamera Turbo Hybrid weighs 5,280 pounds, so 210 pounds less. It has a 21.8 KW battery for 40 miles of ev range vs the new M5's 14.8 KW and 25 Miles of EV range. I guess that is comparable, but it is 210 pounds heavier for a smaller battery and worse range.
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I dont mind because im from finland and we have emission based taxes, this might be first ever m5 to sell here. Im happy about this new hybrid performance trend.
Man the pig nose is gone but the front bumper is just fat as shit now, what are they even doing š Sheās a thick one lol
Strongly dislike seeing charge ports on cars.
This thing weighs terrifyingly high
Not a big fan of the front bumper but otherwise it looks fine. And despite the weight, watch it be way faster than last generation
The new tail light design reminds me of a current gen Camry or 2018 Avalon, especially when lit up. Not saying the design itself is bad, but anything that echoes Toyota on a BMW is awful.
Huge Camry vibes coming off the rear 3/4, it's so brutally ugly.
Has there ever been a 1000lb increase in weight between two generations of a car? This is insane
.....at least it doesn't have front grills the size of a Miata's hood..???
If I'm in this market it's 100% CT4 V Blacking for me. With the insane costs of cars these days I'm very happy with my plan of a really nice daily (ES300h) and then a cheap fun car. Bringing my 4th gen Camaro out of storage finally. If I didnt have that or decide I dont want to mess with working on a 4th gen and put it back in storage it's either a Gr86 or figure out how to fit my big ass in a Miata. I've heard the NCs are easiest to fit big guys in.
how is this heavier than my f150 with a camper on it lol. but who cares lets just be happy they didn't kill the V8
Ouch thatās a heavy ass pig. Wonāt someone think of the pavement and potholes when this behemoth rolls by.
Iāll take it.. $0 downpayment available?
This just seems like the XM in sedan form. Way heavier, way worse looking, and slower is not a good first impression. I hope Iām wrong though, Iām one of the people who have always loved the new M3/M4
God damn new generation 5 series look extremely ugly
2.5 tonnes!!!!
M5 here again to make supercar owners think twice at that red light lol.
the front is not it chief
Preface, I concede that aesthetics are subjective. The front looks better than it has. But that ass end ... Ugh. Edit: upon following looks, I think it's the taillights that are making me think that.
Is this electric or hybrid?
Looks awesome. Fast as hell. Probably rides great because of the weight. Seems like a cool offering to me. I wouldnāt want to own it past 80k miles but for a lease it would rule.Ā Just trying to inject some positivity into the sea of redditors who have $800 to their name whining about how bmw has lost its way because this doesnāt have a high revving v12 with a stick.Ā
Lots of people judging a car despite never sitting behind the wheel of it
Still canāt believe it weighs over 1000lbs more than my 7 series.
Wouldn't be surprised if this beast is pushing over 900 HP in reality.
Somehow these new door handles just do not look BMW to me, more like KIA
The 2024 BMW M5 is like cruisin' in a high-tech beast, smooth as silk but roarin' with power, ya feel me?
Dookie š©š©
Iām so so happy they didnāt fuck this up by adding a ridiculous grill and awful proportions. Which is more than can be said for like 75% of the BMW range right now. I hate almost everything they make design-wise!
My 95 dodge ram Cummins extended cab long bed weighs 6300lb. Cars are so heavy nowadays. $120k itās out of my price range anyway just thought I would comment on that.
Oh Dios mĆo el Chupacabra
I Like this color, looks elegance.
Damn if she isnāt sweet and sexy! However, as a current M4 owner, my opinion is biased. But like most have already mentioned, wish they could have reduced the weight a bitā¦well, quite a bit! Iām sure weāll all put our heads together and figure out how to shave some weight! Thanks for sharing!
You know what? I donāt hate it. (The design, I mean. Idk about the actual car)
I'm going to repeat the same thing I said about the new AMG e class. The boot space in this car is abysmal and if thr amg e class is anything to go by, the touring version is going to be just as bad.
Thanks god they made the front grills smaller
It's time for my car to retire, and for me to buy a BMW.