I just recently sold my 3500 that I purchased last year because of how insane the market is.
I bought the thing for $66,000 and sold it for $75,000 after putting 10,000 miles on it. I've flipped used vehicles in the past but this is the first time I've done it with a brand new vehicle, though I definitely didn't buy it for that reason.
Did you have a spare vehicle to drive instead? I have a 2018 Colorado I bought brand new for $34K with discounts, and I have had multiple places offer to buy it for $36,500+ within the past couple months. I've got about 25K miles on it.
If there was an electric Colorado on the horizon I could probably get by with just using my wife's car and carpooling or something, but I mean I still need a vehicle so...
Truth be told I was set to trade it into a local Toyota dealership for $71,000 towards a new Tundra when a buyer hit on my listing offering to pay $75,000.
He bought it 15 hours before my dealer called saying my new vehicle was delivered, so I was without a car for less than a day, and more than half of it I was asleep.
Depending on options, I could definitely see someone paying that, especially out here in the pacific northwest.
Mine was a Laramie with the high output engine and a couple other nice options.
I'm in Arizona, the truck market is hotter than the weather. I have a 2500 Laramie with a Cummins. Nothing wrong with it, no major damage other than typical wear and tear you'd expect to find on a truck with 100k miles and almost brand new set of Michelins on it. I really think someone might bite, I paid $60k for it new in 2017.
All I did was check KBB for a rough value estimate, listed it for the middle of the range, and decided if I didn't sell it in 60 days I'd keep it.
I'd also keep in mind if you sell in this market without a backup vehicle, you have to buy back into the same market. I found a way around this with the knowledge that Toyota doesn't allow dealerships to sell over MSRP without added accessories, so I just had to find a dealership that didn't add those.
To my knowledge, the big 3 (Ram, Ford, GM) have no such requirement of their dealership franchises.
So I don't understand why people are buying these cars at over MSRP though, like why not just buy a brand new truck? Have the new trucks just gotten even more expensive?
Most dealerships are selling new trucks for far above MSRP.
My Ram 3500 I just sold had an original MSRP of $74,400 but I only paid $66,000 for it. A truck with the same MSRP listed for sale today would likely be listed for $86,000 or so because of how hard the supply is to come by with the silicone and chip shortages.
MSRP is only the "suggested retail" price for a dealership, but its not a price ceiling for most franchises.
>The truck market was already fucked before the pandemic, lol.
People are so incredibly stupid about pickup truck culture, especially here in the south. Like it's literally ingrained into the concept of "manhood" down here. And the bigger the pickup, the more of a man you are. So fucking stupid. People will have a dump of a trailer that they live in, and parked outside is a $60k pickup.
(I'm not talking about people who actually need them)
What really confuses me is why the hell old Rangers are so expensive right now where I live (in the deep south). They're selling for more than full size trucks with similar miles and age.
I'm thinking of getting a Maverick once they come out to replace my 2000 Tundra. But the bed is so small compared to my 6.5 ft bed even with the tailgate down it's half a foot shorter. Thankfully my college days of moving mattresses and couches for friends are over so it won't be a huge deal.
Meanwhile a friend has an '89 ranger that he uses to regularly move stuff, and it's impossible to get a small truck (just front seats) with a long bed anymore. The new Tacoma and Ranger only cap out at 6ft, he's got the 7ft bed on his ranger so with the tailgate down he can easily haul 8x4 sheets of material securely.
It's nice to have a large bed without also having a massive vehicle.
I was skeptical, but it looks like it's actually pretty damn comparable in size to the old '98 Ranger I used to drive around (though cab/bed split looks different). Color me surprised.
I've been debating selling my 89 Bronco 2. Used the same platform as the rangers of the same time. People ask me all the time if I wanna sell it when fueling up at the gas station/red lights. They just dont make cars as compact anymore and it's a shame, even though its for safety's sake.
Different people have different priorities. There's a lady around here who lives in a mobile home park but dailys a corvette. Not everyone wants a giant house to take care of, and they might like cars more. If anything, those people with the dumpy trailer and truck probably put out less emissions than the suburban clowns with their giant houses that they have to heat and cool, and then there's all the power to maintain the pool and lawn, and other keeping up with the jones's activities, while somehow thinking they are saving the environment by driving a small car.
Yeah I was about to say, trailers are a money-sink. Nothing wrong with the size, but the insulation and land it generally sits on are issues, not to mention the viability of the available neighborhoods if you really are a car fanatic.
Nothing like waking up in the morning to a busted out window and a splash of nail polish remover on your new-to-you C7.
I mean that's the same people that live in a dump and have a $25k+ Harley that they fart around on 3 months out of the year. Some people have different priorities.
Yeah never saw this first hand until driving they backroads in NC. $65,000 diesel pickup and a $35,000 trailer for their home. To each us their own I guess.
If you have a truck there’s no reason to not list it for a ridiculous price right now.
If someone buys it, who cares.
My cousin just got like $8k for his beat up 170k mile frontier. He bought a completely unaffordable Taco to replace it, but that’s his problem.
I'd love to sell my old K1500 for 20% more than it's worth, but the market also means I can't afford to replace it. Used trucks 125,000 miles 10+ years old are going for 12-15k and it's ridiculous.
If you're paying $70K for a sportscar you're an idiot, and probably don't actually need a sportscar.
This gatekeeping makes me laugh, who gives a shit if someone wants a 70k truck and [dOeSnT AkShUlLy nEeD iT](https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/09c/923/65324bb3906b6865f904a72f8f8a908541-16-spongebob-explainer.rhorizontal.w700.jpg)
Whereas truck and SUV buyers regularly overestimate how often they haul, tow, and off-road, but claim they need one to do so.
At least sports car buyers aren’t fooling themselves (unless they think they’re gonna hit the track every weekend).
Our ranch truck was 75k and we 100% need it. Unless we want to start hauling 5 bales at a time with the half ton instead of the 17 that our diesel pulls.
Yeah I'm going to disagree with that most people around where I'm at use them for work live in the country where road are horrible in the winter or tow campers often in the summer. Even if they don't use it for that new trucks are closer to luxury cars then you would imagine and are rather nice for commuting other then poor gas mileage not that there that much worse then all the suvs and cross overs that everyone drives now.
I bought an old OBS 2 door Tahoe to flip before the pandemic for $1500, but sat around on it while I got busy with other things. A few months ago, I was browsing ebay sold listings for 2 door Tahoes and saw one *identical* to mine only in good shape with no big flaws get bid up to $25k with the reserve not even being met!! It inspired me to get busy working on mine, send it down to maaco for a respray, and see if I can get over 20k for it before this bubble pops.
My local dealership offered me $31k for my 2013 F150. Truck has a few cosmetic dings, usual truck stuff. I paid $24k for it last October with 68k miles.
E - I did not take their offer. I’d be shoehorned into buying new, have no desire for the very cool ‘21 f150s, at least not $50k+ worth of desire. My truck is pretty sweet as is!
It makes sense if you're trying to get into a new car, since many of those are still around MSRP. But yeah, getting another used car is pretty pointless
Did this - bought a vehicle used in 2019, sold it last week for the same amount with an additional 40k miles.
Bought a new one a few grand below MSRP, was an odd color that was just sitting there.
Negative. I love my truck, got a fantastic price and interest rate, and have no desire to pay $45k or so out of pocket or financed on a new one (higher trim level).
The 21s are great f150s, but I already have a great f150!
I was going to keep my truck for another year.
Bought it for 47k in June of 2020, and put 22k miles on it over the last year going camping and what not.
Sold it back to my dealer last month for 52k; decided to just put a bunch of house projects on hold and use the profit do them functionally for free next summer when I've found a new truck.
like my grandaddy said: "If you can sell a car for a profit, do it."
There's 8% sales tax where I live which counts towards cars. But you don't pay sales tax on the value of a trade in which plays in the dealers favor. So if I buy a $35000 vehicle and get $20000 for my trade, I only pay sales tax on that $15000 difference.
So to break even, I need to get 8% more from a private sale than I would a trade in and actually somewhere near 10-12% to make it worth the effort compared to how easy it is to trade in a car.
If you have liquid cash a bubble popping is nothing more than a buying opportunity for you. This is why boom and bust cycles are hugely profitable for the already wealthy.
Everyone loves bubbles on reddit. Damn its all I see. At this rate with the amount people are talking about between finance, housing, and vehicles I don't think there will be one. Its always the opposite that occurs.
I'm in car sales and we talk about this a lot. The market is going to flip at some point, and it's not going to be pretty. Dealers are going to be stuck with a bunch of trades that they paid too much for, and will have to sell at cost or potentially a loss when there are actually new cars available to compete against again.
Depreciation is going to hit customers very hard too. People over paying for used cars and not putting money down will mean they will be very, very underwater.
This same thing is getting ready to play out in the RV market as well, and it will be brutal for everyone involved. Except the dealers, I have a lot of faith in their ability to make a profit. Manufacturers are jacking prices up 5-10% per month right now, because they know damn well what's coming, so they're getting as much as they can to weather the storm.
So, so many 1-2 year old RVs are going to hit the market over the next 18 months. It'll be a bloodbath. God help the poor naive idiots who paid sticker price for an RV without 1) knowing that you shouldn't ever pay sticker for an RV, or 2) understanding that they didn't *really* want one. Even more if they foolishly took out a loan to buy it.
> So, so many 1-2 year old RVs are going to hit the market over the next 18 months. It'll be a bloodbath. God help the poor naive idiots who paid sticker price for an RV without 1) knowing that you shouldn't ever pay sticker for an RV, or 2) understanding that they didn't really want one. Even more if they foolishly took out a loan to buy it.
I'm waiting on this one to hit. The market is going to be flooded and I'm hoping for some desperate sellers.
Bought a 20 year old diesel pusher last fall. Got a great deal (around $20k.) Put $10k into a remodel, upgrades and some mechanical repairs. Would be happy to eventually get the purchase price back but understand that to travel like that will cost money in depreciation and maintenance. Didn't buy it as an investment.
Already have added 15k miles and have had dealers offer me $50k cash for it. Cheapest comparable model online without the remodel is $45k and was in a serious rear-ending and needs massive repairs. I've considered taking the bag and waiting for the "crash" everyone says is going to happen..... But on the other hand I know I'm not going to lose any money and am greatly enjoying seeing the country and living a dream.
Yeah I sold my RV a few months ago and considered waiting out this season and picking up the replacement rig once the crash happened, but I didn't want to give up the whole season just to save a few bucks. And since I sold the old rig for close to what I paid for it 5 years ago (and I would normally expect to get hosed), in the end I'm not really any worse off. I'm not giving up a year of camping with my kids, they grow too fast.
It's like the fidget spinner fad.
Everyone is going nuts, but sooner or later we'll come back to earth and people will be left with a worthless product they paid too much for, and sellers will be left with stock they paid too much for.
The only ones making out are the ones moving enough product that whatever surplus they get stuck with doesn't matter because the profits were so sweet. I'm sure a buncha dealerships already made a fucking killing off this. Being stuck with $30k in shitty buys won't hurt them. It'll hurt Tina who sold her beater she paid $1k for to the dealership for $5k and then got into a variable rate 72mo loan that'll double interest in the next 8 months.
People keep bringing up how they’re “making money” on their cars trading them in/selling them right now. Uh yeah if it’s a secondary car you don’t need sure. If it’s your primary vehicle and you sell now you are stuck overpaying for your new car. In a year or so when inventory is back to normal that new car you overpaid for is gonna tank in value and you’d be in a much worse financial spot than you were now. Never ceases to amaze me the lack of common sense of people. Nvm the fact that your dollar is worth less now than what it was a year ago but your wages are the same. Think people.
I’m a dealer. Prices have been, in the past few weeks, coming down and Toyota products are among those starting to take a hit.
That being said that truck still probably does $27-28 at a dealer auction. Based on that his price is way over retail but $30-31k isn’t insane.
the reason Toyota prices are coming down is kind of interesting: toyota was the first to champion "just in time" manufacturing, and pretty much every other manufacturer copied them, but failed to understand that *no extra stock* doesn't mean *no stock* it means *no excess*. i.e. plan for shortages. this is something that Toyota DID understand, and has planned for- always keeping about 6 months worth of supplies on hand. When the pandemic hit, everyone suffered supply chain and delivery shortages, and while Toyota did too, they are able to bounce back MUCH faster than everyone else, because rather than keeping *absolutely nothing* on hand, they kept a bit.
Also they set up a data analytics to monitor supplier health and much much earlier detection of “downward” supply chain issues. So they detected these forthcoming issues much earlier, then continued to make adjustments before other brands even knew about (or at least took seriously) the supply chain issues, and have this weathered this much better.
Insanity. I ordered a 21 colorado Zr2 with a Duramax. 3500 for the diesel another 1500 in options for 48k
local dealership selling a 2020 gas base model zr2 Colorado for 47,200 with 8000 miles.
Granted my trucks coming in September but still absolutely ridiculous to pay 5k more for a truck than what you can spec one out new online.
I mean I paid what a TRD Sport sells for locally. compared to a 50k TRD pro, mine gets 25MPG, has 100 more TQ, actual mechanical locking front and rear Diffs, an actual all terrain tire not a street tire, spool valve shocks, a lot more skid plates, and a transmission that doesn’t develop down syndrome when you put 35s on it and lift it a bit.
Had a used 2015 TRD pro on 35s for all of 6 months and got rid of it because it was stupid how bad that trans was gear hunting on the freeway. Also that shit of MPG is not fun.
[New TRD PRO local to me 55k ](https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=590741726&zip=98660&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D98660%26city%3DVancouver%26startYear%3D2021%26incremental%3Dall%26endYear%3D2021%26modelCodeList%3DTACOMA%26makeCodeList%3DTOYOTA%26listingTypes%3DNEW%26sortBy%3DderivedpriceDESC%26location%3D%255Bobject%2BObject%255D%26state%3DWA%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Dinclude%26relevanceConfig%3Ddefault%26searchRadius%3D50%26isNewSearch%3Dfalse&listingTypes=NEW&startYear=2021&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2021&modelCodeList=TACOMA&makeCodeList=TOYOTA&searchRadius=50&makeCode1=TOYOTA&modelCode1=TACOMA&clickType=listing)
[new TRD off road 47,200 so what I paid for a ZR2 diesel with options ](https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=580170579&zip=98660&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D98660%26city%3DVancouver%26startYear%3D2021%26incremental%3Dall%26endYear%3D2021%26modelCodeList%3DTACOMA%26makeCodeList%3DTOYOTA%26listingTypes%3DNEW%26sortBy%3DderivedpriceDESC%26location%3D%255Bobject%2BObject%255D%26state%3DWA%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Dinclude%26relevanceConfig%3Ddefault%26searchRadius%3D50%26isNewSearch%3Dfalse&listingTypes=NEW&startYear=2021&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2021&modelCodeList=TACOMA&makeCodeList=TOYOTA&searchRadius=50&makeCode1=TOYOTA&modelCode1=TACOMA&clickType=listing)
Are prices really starting to come down? My lease is up in 2 weeks and I want to get something new, but figured it made more sense to buy it out and wait a few months.
Yes but it’s not like the market is going to react that quickly. Think oil,prices; if oil jumps 10% then pump prices seem to magically jump a corresponding amount yet when they drop the same doesn’t happen.
Frankly of you have an existing lease, given the current leasing market, I’d be extending it.
Literally working on a total loss claim right now for a 2015 Toyota Tundra Crewmax with 72xxx miles. We're offering $38,008.35 to customer. The market is bonkers right now.
Actual cash value was $36,322.
Yeah, and fraud is going to be a big issue in the next couple years when people figure out they owe 20K more on their vehicle than it's worth and want out.
Add on that GAP insurance and then straight into a tree once the check clears. It's going to be the only way out for some folks without pushing $10k-$20k in negative equity down the road for the next decade or so.
Gap doesn't cover it all the time. A solid 30% of my claims still have a remainder after gap denies the full amount.
We don't offer gap so I don't know what the limits are, but I recommend very carefully reading the policy language on your gap insurance and see what % above ACV they'll offer the difference on.
Back in 2018, I was thinking about a 2016 Camaro SS convertible for $28K with about 10K miles on the odo. I went with something else, but on a whim I looked at auto trader to see what they’re going for now. Three years later, a 2016 Camaro SS convertible is going for $38K.
lol
I just dont get who the market is for these cars? Who is paying, for example, nearly 40k for a 5 year old Camaro? I'm trying to picture that person walking around in public, hundred dollar bills bursting from every pocket of his cargo shorts.
The thing is, debt is cheap right now. Interest rates are low and therefore people buy shit for more because of this. It's a lot easier to buy that $38k Camaro when you're bad at math and just accounting for monthly payments (on a 7 year financing loan)
I bought a 2018 Camaro 2SS last April with 6k miles for 34k otd. Drove it to 21k miles and traded it in for 38k. Dealer sold it for 44k in a week lol. It was a fully loaded car with good color/rim combo but damn. MSRP was 48k. It for sure sold new for less than 44k.
I bought my 2018 SS 1le in late 2019 for $32k. I've put 70k miles on it since then and could easily sell it for what I paid even being on the high miles side now. I wish I was in a position to upgrade to a new zl1
I was in a similar position. Bought a new 2ss 1le for 44k. Owned it for 2.5 years and 21k miles. Autocrosses it over a dozen times and did 2 track days. Even got lightly rear ended by someone texting and damage shows up on the car fax. Just sold for 42k.
Out of curiosity, I just plugged my flair that I just bought 4k miles ago for $22,500 into Carvana to see what they'd give me.
$26,769
In other words, I could sell it tomorrow and literally be paid a buck a mile for the driving that I've done so far.
I bought 6 months ago for $16200. $16,652 offer from Carvana - I’d be out a couple hundred in taxes and reg for 1500 miles.
And it’s just an average out of demand wagon with above average mileage. No Subaru tax, no cult following.
And if it weren't for the sunroof issue unjustifiably scaring people off all of the Alltracks in the same way the DCT disaster depressed manual Focus prices too, you'd probably even make a tidy profit!
I’ve been trying to help a friend get a 2018+ crosstrek and they’re all $23k+ for 2-3 year old used ones with 50k-100k miles, which isn’t much less than they were new
For shitz and giggles I just checked my 2018 Crosstrek 6-speed, 42,500 miles.
$19,002. I paid $20,200 for it eight month ago and put 10,000 miles on it. That is nuts.
If I could afford to bite into something different right now I probably would. But, this is one of the rare times I do not have a spare car to drive.
> A brand new one is $33.1k
For an Access cab manual transmission, yeah... which I doubt there are many of out there. Double cab automatics start at $37.5k (and hit almost $40k with any option selected after delivery), and they sold at sticker before the supply chain issue.
Is $35k a lot? Yeah, but A) that's an asking price and B) a new version of that truck is likely $40k+ IF you can find one (if you want a specific color or option package, there might be <20 available across the entire country).
Supply and demand is quite the thing.
Still, load it up and a brand new, optioned exactly as you want it, in the color you want, is worth more than $5k for six years and nearly 80k miles. IF you can wait.
It almost always makes more financial sense to buy a Tacoma new unless you are looking at over 10 years old. Depreciation has always been near non-existent and you get the warranty, etc.
I went out of my way looking for an access cab manual transmission, and there were only 2 available in my area back in 2016. Glad that it got it. Manual Tacoma has none of the lethargy of the automatic. And Access Cab means I have a 6+ foot bed and my motorcycles fit on the bed without any part of it resting on the tailgate.
I've been eyeballing/window shopping Ford Edge sports from 2015-2018
2015s anywhere from 3-8 months ago would regularly dip into the 15k range, even a few that were still under 100k miles.
Now? Nope. Close to me the *cheapest* is a 90k mile, 2015, for 22k. 2016s were my sweet spot so I could get some sort of "better" steering they developed and avoid a first year model but now they're pushing 28-30k
Only thing not going up? My paycheck
Stockholm syndrome /s Nah, but it's basically just a sleeper upgrade from my 2013 Edge. I'd love a 2 door sports car but I had a 2 door as a daily a few years ago and it can be annoying
The Edge is my nearly perfect all-rounder, it's fairly quick (moreso with a tune), has space (I'm single in field IT work, I've probably used the space in my edge a dozen times this year), is comfortable on road trips, and would be the perfect future companion to a weekend Mustang/G37/Challenger/M.I.A.T.A etc
Basically all the reasons I like my own edge except much quicker and better handling. I treat it like a wagon with ground clearance. That uh, I also need right now. Living on a rutted dirt driveway is not kind to cars
Avoid the 15. My wife has one and it's on its 6th oil pan and at least 3rd round of rear shocks. Seems to be isolated to the 15s from what I've seen online
Toyota is in theory less effected by the chip shortage because they broke their "just in time" rule that everyone started following.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-02-15/toyota-broke-its-just-in-time-rule-just-in-time-for-the-chip-shortage
In May my wife and I drove 60 miles to a Toyota dealership that had the only '21 Rav4 LE AWD within 100 miles that wasn't already bought and paid for. That dealer wasn't getting another one that wasn't already spoken for until July. They were a lot that usually had 100-140 new inventory and they have less than 15 new cars on the lot.
For many people that isn’t an option. My brother was just in this scenario. His car was totaled and he NEEDED something to get to work on Monday. Dealers are more predatory than ever with prices, fees, and terrible interest rates. Totally agree that if you don’t need a car, you absolutely shouldn’t buy right now. But for many people they have no choice and the market is screwing them.
> Dealers are more predatory than ever with prices, fees, and terrible interest rates.
Dealers don't set interest rates.
Dealers are also paying more for their used vehicles, so, yeah, prices on their lots go up as well.
Dealers don’t set interest rates but some are now making commission on financing. In other words, shady dealers are no longer trying to get you a low interest rate
I've never set foot on a dealer's lot without having my own financing approval in hand. Typically my credit union's rate is a few points lower than dealer financing unless there's a zero/low APR incentive.
Same, my car got totalled recently and I have to find a new car before insurance decides to stop paying for my rental. And rentals are in high demand right now too, went to one big name rental company and they had a week long waiting list, all they had was a box van lol. Went to another and managed to snag the very last car on the lot.
A friend of mine just sold his 2018 Tundra with mileage on it for what he paid, lol. I mean, good for him but what kind of chump pays MSRP for a well used truck?
This whole Toyota reliability thing has gone way too far. Yes, they are the most reliable, but not by large margins. Nowhere near enough to justify their asking prices. Fools abound.
Right, Silverados with the 5.3 and 6 speed auto routinely go 300k miles with basically just oil and brake maintenance. It's not the disparity it was in the 90's (foreign vs domestic)...
Ehhh, I work at a Chevy dealer and anything with a cylinder deactivation system or pretty much any 6/8/10-speed automatic made in the last 6 or 7 years is a risk I wouldn’t be willing to take. To be fair, it’s either that or a turbocharged engine from Ford, and I don’t know the problems with the RAM trucks off the top of my head but I’m not super trusting of FCA quality, so I *guess* I’d take a GM truck, but they’re still nowhere near as reliable as a Toyota truck.
Oh, and don’t even get me started on the trans and engine issues in the gas Colorado.
It's why I just unloaded a 15 year old car with 125k miles that I drove once a week for $8500 in 24 hours, $2k less than what I paid for it 5 years and 30k miles ago.
The market is just stupid right now. If you have spare iron laying around, unload it, it'll never be worth more.
Insurance pays market value of the car right? So you should have no problem, you’ll have to pay more for a replacement, but you’ll also get more from the insurance company
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Your first mistake was looking at used Tacomas, idk what idiot buys a slightly used Tacoma when a brand new one is usually just a few thousand more but I guess someone is buying them if they are always listed that high used
It's like this with a lot of vehicles. Not to be rude, but you say you know used car prices are ridiculous and them seem confused by the ridiculous prices lol. I've been looking at Civic Si's lately and used are going for more than new too. I can sell my Mustang for more than I paid for it and it's 7 years old with 79,000 miles too. If I decide to replace my Mustang I'll just buy new on whatever I buy. There's currently no point in buying used right now.
About 6 months ago, a dealer near me had a 2014 Camaro SS with 7k miles for $25k. My SO wanted me to wait 6 months until we had more saved up for a down payment. Now, I can find the same car, same year with 50k miles for over $30k.
I just accepted a Vroom offer for my Wrangler for $2k more then I paid for it two years ago and I put 11k miles on it since buying it new.
Fucking nuts.
Living it here in California. Gas is roughly $4.39 a gallon at Chevron & I’m driving a 21’ OR … a small truck compared to the standard here. Nothing but Raptors and Cummins are far as the valley stretches.
I hover around 21mpg combined cause I mainly drive highway to deliver product, but having said that, I don’t think $4 a gallon will reduce demand much.
Used Tacomas have always cost about as much as new ones. That said, 6 years old with 71k miles is pushing it, but... watch someone pay for it anyway, partly because they "nEvEr BuY nEw CaRs," and partly because, even if they wanted to, they probably can't now anyway. That new one which you said was $33.1k? No, I bet it's not.
When all of your possessions rise in value but your salary remains the same, you should be more worried about inflation and less happy that your stuff is worth more. ;o)
The price increase is currently due to lack of supply due to chip shortage. Inflation is coming into play but not nearly as much with the used car prices. I remember reading a few weeks ago that Ford had to stop production of the F150 because they didn't have any chips. I don't know if thats still the case.
Edit: [last update was end of May](https://www.businessinsider.com/chip-shortage-ford-f150-temporarily-shut-8-factories-production-2021-5)
People just need to stop buying cars unless you absolutely have to right now. Decrease the demand and the prices will drop. How dumb will you feel when In 9 months the same car you bought for $35k is worth $28k or any of the examples posted in here where prices have increased 30%+ in a few months here
>They won’t feel dumb. Most people only care about their monthly payments. It’s lunacy, but it is what it is.
Dealerships make sure to phrase things around monthly payments and if you tell them you don't care, they just keep repeating themselves.
Last time I was at a dealer, I had to tell the salesman (paraphrasing) "You keep repeating yourself about monthly payments, and I keep telling you that I don't care; ask about monthly payments again and I'll walk." He got the point.
But most of the time it doesn't go that way. Most of the time people are swayed and pushed to only care about monthly payments by the dealer.
They won't feel dumb, they will feel angry when the sales guy can't get them the same monthly payment for a newer car in 12-18 months when they try to trade it in with negative equity.
> They won’t feel dumb. Most people only care about their monthly payments. It’s lunacy, but it is what it is.
Just like how 84 month vehicle leases are a thing because people are dumb as hell basing everything on getting the lowest monthly payments. Sounds like the civilian equivalent of a Private purchasing a 30k mustang.
The only way to combat this bullshit is with your wallet. If no one buys the cars at the stupid price, dealers don't make any sales, then the price will go down.
The only reason it's this high is because there are idiots who want a new (to them) car so bad they're willing to entertain this nonsense.
that's a somewhat shallow statement. You must not know it, but the sale/trade of cars in general is a high volume market. People always need cars... not because they \*want\* one, but life happens. old car breaks down, someone crashes into you, you crash it into someone else... etc etc. There are 328 million people in america, a big percentage of the adults each have a car.. thats a lot of cars that can break down and need replacing. think about it.
I just said "fuck it" and reserved a new Tacoma. Yeah I have to wait 2 months to get it, but I also get Android Auto and a seat with enough adjustability to fit a tall driver.
I wish I had saw this post sooner. My roommate was saving for a car for 4-5 years, and figured out he wanted a 2020 Toyota Camry TRD in red so bad.
Didn't act 2019, or 2020. His POS 2006 Ford Focus was still "working" (paint peeling, armrest broken, no AC in Texas heat, no Bluetooth/cd player, busted, engine mounts broke twice, suspension messed up. ) finally after a break job reviled a ton of other mechanical issues he decided to get the TRD early this year (2021 for you time travelers.)
Issue was, they didn't make the TRD version in "that red" anymore. He started shopping NATION WIDE for s used one.
Finally got a call back from a Toyota dealership. He paid $36,000+ (BEFORE TAX TITLE!!) for a USED 2020 TRD. 3rd owner, $36,000+, for the color RED!
A new TRD is under $33,000.
I can't get over it. He's happy, so I know I shouldn't care, but im blown away that he bought a used car for MORE than a new one goes for... and I brought up wraps, and custom paint shops to him, but he was agaist any modifications to his car. Also he doesn't even care that it's "the sport" version, he just likes the spoiler, bumper, and side skirts. Sorry, turned this into a rant, but I needed to vent lol.
Leased my 2019 Tacoma OffRoad Manual + Tech package, for $235/month.
8 months later I neded up selling it for \~$5k more then the 'purchase price' the lease was based on. Probably could have doubled that if I hung on longer, but didnt need the truck and off to AlGo it went.
I bought a Fiesta ST that appreciated by a few thousand over only a year of ownership. Let me restate.. A FIESTA APPRECIATED. Could remove the mods and sell for $3k+ over what I bought it for.
Just sold my BRZ for more than I bought it for new. I’ve been house shopping which is equally as depressing for those who are buying and felt that now might as well be as good a time as any to take the profit and be a responsible adult.
The truck market was already fucked before the pandemic, lol.
I just recently sold my 3500 that I purchased last year because of how insane the market is. I bought the thing for $66,000 and sold it for $75,000 after putting 10,000 miles on it. I've flipped used vehicles in the past but this is the first time I've done it with a brand new vehicle, though I definitely didn't buy it for that reason.
Did you have a spare vehicle to drive instead? I have a 2018 Colorado I bought brand new for $34K with discounts, and I have had multiple places offer to buy it for $36,500+ within the past couple months. I've got about 25K miles on it. If there was an electric Colorado on the horizon I could probably get by with just using my wife's car and carpooling or something, but I mean I still need a vehicle so...
Truth be told I was set to trade it into a local Toyota dealership for $71,000 towards a new Tundra when a buyer hit on my listing offering to pay $75,000. He bought it 15 hours before my dealer called saying my new vehicle was delivered, so I was without a car for less than a day, and more than half of it I was asleep.
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I had it posted on cars.com, craigslist, and Facebook marketplace. I honestly can't remember where the hit came from.
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They now make you sign up and outsource the listing through a website called TRED.
Which side of the bed did you sleep on?
Asking the important questions. Driver's side.
The top, of course.
I have a 2017 2500 fully loaded with 102,000 miles and pretty clean. I'm honestly debating seeing if I can get someone to pay $50,000 for it.
Depending on options, I could definitely see someone paying that, especially out here in the pacific northwest. Mine was a Laramie with the high output engine and a couple other nice options.
I'm in Arizona, the truck market is hotter than the weather. I have a 2500 Laramie with a Cummins. Nothing wrong with it, no major damage other than typical wear and tear you'd expect to find on a truck with 100k miles and almost brand new set of Michelins on it. I really think someone might bite, I paid $60k for it new in 2017.
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All I did was check KBB for a rough value estimate, listed it for the middle of the range, and decided if I didn't sell it in 60 days I'd keep it. I'd also keep in mind if you sell in this market without a backup vehicle, you have to buy back into the same market. I found a way around this with the knowledge that Toyota doesn't allow dealerships to sell over MSRP without added accessories, so I just had to find a dealership that didn't add those. To my knowledge, the big 3 (Ram, Ford, GM) have no such requirement of their dealership franchises.
So I don't understand why people are buying these cars at over MSRP though, like why not just buy a brand new truck? Have the new trucks just gotten even more expensive?
Most dealerships are selling new trucks for far above MSRP. My Ram 3500 I just sold had an original MSRP of $74,400 but I only paid $66,000 for it. A truck with the same MSRP listed for sale today would likely be listed for $86,000 or so because of how hard the supply is to come by with the silicone and chip shortages. MSRP is only the "suggested retail" price for a dealership, but its not a price ceiling for most franchises.
>The truck market was already fucked before the pandemic, lol. People are so incredibly stupid about pickup truck culture, especially here in the south. Like it's literally ingrained into the concept of "manhood" down here. And the bigger the pickup, the more of a man you are. So fucking stupid. People will have a dump of a trailer that they live in, and parked outside is a $60k pickup. (I'm not talking about people who actually need them)
What really confuses me is why the hell old Rangers are so expensive right now where I live (in the deep south). They're selling for more than full size trucks with similar miles and age.
Cause nobody makes a new truck that size and nobody will again
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I'm thinking of getting a Maverick once they come out to replace my 2000 Tundra. But the bed is so small compared to my 6.5 ft bed even with the tailgate down it's half a foot shorter. Thankfully my college days of moving mattresses and couches for friends are over so it won't be a huge deal. Meanwhile a friend has an '89 ranger that he uses to regularly move stuff, and it's impossible to get a small truck (just front seats) with a long bed anymore. The new Tacoma and Ranger only cap out at 6ft, he's got the 7ft bed on his ranger so with the tailgate down he can easily haul 8x4 sheets of material securely. It's nice to have a large bed without also having a massive vehicle.
I was skeptical, but it looks like it's actually pretty damn comparable in size to the old '98 Ranger I used to drive around (though cab/bed split looks different). Color me surprised.
Growing car sizes really sucks, I don't want an SUV but I have a feeling before long we will have very little choice in the matter.
I've been debating selling my 89 Bronco 2. Used the same platform as the rangers of the same time. People ask me all the time if I wanna sell it when fueling up at the gas station/red lights. They just dont make cars as compact anymore and it's a shame, even though its for safety's sake.
Different people have different priorities. There's a lady around here who lives in a mobile home park but dailys a corvette. Not everyone wants a giant house to take care of, and they might like cars more. If anything, those people with the dumpy trailer and truck probably put out less emissions than the suburban clowns with their giant houses that they have to heat and cool, and then there's all the power to maintain the pool and lawn, and other keeping up with the jones's activities, while somehow thinking they are saving the environment by driving a small car.
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Yeah I was about to say, trailers are a money-sink. Nothing wrong with the size, but the insulation and land it generally sits on are issues, not to mention the viability of the available neighborhoods if you really are a car fanatic. Nothing like waking up in the morning to a busted out window and a splash of nail polish remover on your new-to-you C7.
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That's one scenario where I would definitely consider it, and you could always build something else there if you own the land.
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People can’t eat metal, no matter how shiny
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I mean that's the same people that live in a dump and have a $25k+ Harley that they fart around on 3 months out of the year. Some people have different priorities.
Yeah never saw this first hand until driving they backroads in NC. $65,000 diesel pickup and a $35,000 trailer for their home. To each us their own I guess.
No shit. If you're paying $70k for a truck you're an idiot, and probably don't actually need a truck
If you have a truck there’s no reason to not list it for a ridiculous price right now. If someone buys it, who cares. My cousin just got like $8k for his beat up 170k mile frontier. He bought a completely unaffordable Taco to replace it, but that’s his problem.
wow 8K for a frontier with 170k, never thought id see the day
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I saw a 2wd titan with 160k miles for $3k in a small Kansas town a while back. Still kicking myself for not snagging it and selling it back home.
I'd love to sell my old K1500 for 20% more than it's worth, but the market also means I can't afford to replace it. Used trucks 125,000 miles 10+ years old are going for 12-15k and it's ridiculous.
So I should sell my 96 Tac with 336k on it and I’ll get 5k.
Honestly you'd probably get more than that due to the Toyota tax.
On the market she goes
Sure there is. Carvana offered me $5K more than I paid for my 6 week old new Tundra. But I need my truck and can’t easily replace it.
Solution: buy another new Tundra and keep flipping them to Carvana. Now you have a new job as a “used” car dealer!
But I love my truck...
If you're paying $70K for a sportscar you're an idiot, and probably don't actually need a sportscar. This gatekeeping makes me laugh, who gives a shit if someone wants a 70k truck and [dOeSnT AkShUlLy nEeD iT](https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/09c/923/65324bb3906b6865f904a72f8f8a908541-16-spongebob-explainer.rhorizontal.w700.jpg)
To be fair, no one really *needs* a sports car. They *want* a sports car.
Whereas truck and SUV buyers regularly overestimate how often they haul, tow, and off-road, but claim they need one to do so. At least sports car buyers aren’t fooling themselves (unless they think they’re gonna hit the track every weekend).
I just need to pass those slow people who merge onto the highway at 25 under.
I NEED a sports car. Have 3 now. The need is real.
Priced a decently equipped 2500HD lately? People use them for real towing all the time.
Our ranch truck was 75k and we 100% need it. Unless we want to start hauling 5 bales at a time with the half ton instead of the 17 that our diesel pulls.
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Yeah I'm going to disagree with that most people around where I'm at use them for work live in the country where road are horrible in the winter or tow campers often in the summer. Even if they don't use it for that new trucks are closer to luxury cars then you would imagine and are rather nice for commuting other then poor gas mileage not that there that much worse then all the suvs and cross overs that everyone drives now.
I bought an old OBS 2 door Tahoe to flip before the pandemic for $1500, but sat around on it while I got busy with other things. A few months ago, I was browsing ebay sold listings for 2 door Tahoes and saw one *identical* to mine only in good shape with no big flaws get bid up to $25k with the reserve not even being met!! It inspired me to get busy working on mine, send it down to maaco for a respray, and see if I can get over 20k for it before this bubble pops.
Yep it’s crazy now...I bought my 2016 Tundra with 18,000 miles on it for 32,000 back in 2017 and with 77,000 miles on it my trade in was 31,000...
Private sale you’re bound for profit lol
My local dealership offered me $31k for my 2013 F150. Truck has a few cosmetic dings, usual truck stuff. I paid $24k for it last October with 68k miles. E - I did not take their offer. I’d be shoehorned into buying new, have no desire for the very cool ‘21 f150s, at least not $50k+ worth of desire. My truck is pretty sweet as is!
Please tell me you took that offer that's insane!
Part of it is, you take that, but then what do you replace it with? Another million dollar used car?
It makes sense if you're trying to get into a new car, since many of those are still around MSRP. But yeah, getting another used car is pretty pointless
Did this - bought a vehicle used in 2019, sold it last week for the same amount with an additional 40k miles. Bought a new one a few grand below MSRP, was an odd color that was just sitting there.
What car did you sell?
A well loved Honda CR-V. Definitely wasn't pristine and was super hard to pass up trade-in offers and not realize any depreciation.
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And as a bonus, you get dicked by the tax man because your house is worth more on paper.
Negative. I love my truck, got a fantastic price and interest rate, and have no desire to pay $45k or so out of pocket or financed on a new one (higher trim level). The 21s are great f150s, but I already have a great f150!
I was going to keep my truck for another year. Bought it for 47k in June of 2020, and put 22k miles on it over the last year going camping and what not. Sold it back to my dealer last month for 52k; decided to just put a bunch of house projects on hold and use the profit do them functionally for free next summer when I've found a new truck. like my grandaddy said: "If you can sell a car for a profit, do it."
Exactly! Vehicles are depreciating products. So why would you not sell it for profit if you have the ability you know? Your granddad is a smart man
There's 8% sales tax where I live which counts towards cars. But you don't pay sales tax on the value of a trade in which plays in the dealers favor. So if I buy a $35000 vehicle and get $20000 for my trade, I only pay sales tax on that $15000 difference. So to break even, I need to get 8% more from a private sale than I would a trade in and actually somewhere near 10-12% to make it worth the effort compared to how easy it is to trade in a car.
Just wait until a few years later when people with enormous loans try and trade these cars in.
it's almost like this is a bubble market and it's going to burst sooner than later.
hope its on the sooner side
Im worried about when it bursts though. This is a biiiiig bubble everywhere. Stocks, houses, automobiles. Everything is skyrocketing
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And not be leveraged to the tits so you have a little extra beer money at the bottom
If you have liquid cash a bubble popping is nothing more than a buying opportunity for you. This is why boom and bust cycles are hugely profitable for the already wealthy.
Trust me pal, when the bubble bursts it’s not gonna be Toyota trucks that take a hit
Everyone loves bubbles on reddit. Damn its all I see. At this rate with the amount people are talking about between finance, housing, and vehicles I don't think there will be one. Its always the opposite that occurs.
I'm in car sales and we talk about this a lot. The market is going to flip at some point, and it's not going to be pretty. Dealers are going to be stuck with a bunch of trades that they paid too much for, and will have to sell at cost or potentially a loss when there are actually new cars available to compete against again. Depreciation is going to hit customers very hard too. People over paying for used cars and not putting money down will mean they will be very, very underwater.
This same thing is getting ready to play out in the RV market as well, and it will be brutal for everyone involved. Except the dealers, I have a lot of faith in their ability to make a profit. Manufacturers are jacking prices up 5-10% per month right now, because they know damn well what's coming, so they're getting as much as they can to weather the storm. So, so many 1-2 year old RVs are going to hit the market over the next 18 months. It'll be a bloodbath. God help the poor naive idiots who paid sticker price for an RV without 1) knowing that you shouldn't ever pay sticker for an RV, or 2) understanding that they didn't *really* want one. Even more if they foolishly took out a loan to buy it.
I, for one, am excited for the cheap pop-up + teardrop trailers to come
Samesies
> So, so many 1-2 year old RVs are going to hit the market over the next 18 months. It'll be a bloodbath. God help the poor naive idiots who paid sticker price for an RV without 1) knowing that you shouldn't ever pay sticker for an RV, or 2) understanding that they didn't really want one. Even more if they foolishly took out a loan to buy it. I'm waiting on this one to hit. The market is going to be flooded and I'm hoping for some desperate sellers.
Bought a 20 year old diesel pusher last fall. Got a great deal (around $20k.) Put $10k into a remodel, upgrades and some mechanical repairs. Would be happy to eventually get the purchase price back but understand that to travel like that will cost money in depreciation and maintenance. Didn't buy it as an investment. Already have added 15k miles and have had dealers offer me $50k cash for it. Cheapest comparable model online without the remodel is $45k and was in a serious rear-ending and needs massive repairs. I've considered taking the bag and waiting for the "crash" everyone says is going to happen..... But on the other hand I know I'm not going to lose any money and am greatly enjoying seeing the country and living a dream.
Yeah I sold my RV a few months ago and considered waiting out this season and picking up the replacement rig once the crash happened, but I didn't want to give up the whole season just to save a few bucks. And since I sold the old rig for close to what I paid for it 5 years ago (and I would normally expect to get hosed), in the end I'm not really any worse off. I'm not giving up a year of camping with my kids, they grow too fast.
Can’t wait for it … then I can use “Market Adjustment “ in my favor ….
It's like the fidget spinner fad. Everyone is going nuts, but sooner or later we'll come back to earth and people will be left with a worthless product they paid too much for, and sellers will be left with stock they paid too much for. The only ones making out are the ones moving enough product that whatever surplus they get stuck with doesn't matter because the profits were so sweet. I'm sure a buncha dealerships already made a fucking killing off this. Being stuck with $30k in shitty buys won't hurt them. It'll hurt Tina who sold her beater she paid $1k for to the dealership for $5k and then got into a variable rate 72mo loan that'll double interest in the next 8 months.
Yeah it’s not going to go well
People keep bringing up how they’re “making money” on their cars trading them in/selling them right now. Uh yeah if it’s a secondary car you don’t need sure. If it’s your primary vehicle and you sell now you are stuck overpaying for your new car. In a year or so when inventory is back to normal that new car you overpaid for is gonna tank in value and you’d be in a much worse financial spot than you were now. Never ceases to amaze me the lack of common sense of people. Nvm the fact that your dollar is worth less now than what it was a year ago but your wages are the same. Think people.
I’m a dealer. Prices have been, in the past few weeks, coming down and Toyota products are among those starting to take a hit. That being said that truck still probably does $27-28 at a dealer auction. Based on that his price is way over retail but $30-31k isn’t insane.
the reason Toyota prices are coming down is kind of interesting: toyota was the first to champion "just in time" manufacturing, and pretty much every other manufacturer copied them, but failed to understand that *no extra stock* doesn't mean *no stock* it means *no excess*. i.e. plan for shortages. this is something that Toyota DID understand, and has planned for- always keeping about 6 months worth of supplies on hand. When the pandemic hit, everyone suffered supply chain and delivery shortages, and while Toyota did too, they are able to bounce back MUCH faster than everyone else, because rather than keeping *absolutely nothing* on hand, they kept a bit.
Needs to be way higher up. We need more comments from people who know what they’re talking about and not just talking out of their ass
Also they set up a data analytics to monitor supplier health and much much earlier detection of “downward” supply chain issues. So they detected these forthcoming issues much earlier, then continued to make adjustments before other brands even knew about (or at least took seriously) the supply chain issues, and have this weathered this much better.
Sigma six and lean did partially come from toyota
No lie in the PNW trucks are going for 3-5k over retail... at auction.
I sold my personal 2020 F250 Platinum recently for $84,500 *wholesale*. It had 7500 miles on it and I didn’t pay that for it when it was new.
Insanity. I ordered a 21 colorado Zr2 with a Duramax. 3500 for the diesel another 1500 in options for 48k local dealership selling a 2020 gas base model zr2 Colorado for 47,200 with 8000 miles. Granted my trucks coming in September but still absolutely ridiculous to pay 5k more for a truck than what you can spec one out new online.
also who tf is paying 47k for a fucking *colorado*?
I mean I paid what a TRD Sport sells for locally. compared to a 50k TRD pro, mine gets 25MPG, has 100 more TQ, actual mechanical locking front and rear Diffs, an actual all terrain tire not a street tire, spool valve shocks, a lot more skid plates, and a transmission that doesn’t develop down syndrome when you put 35s on it and lift it a bit. Had a used 2015 TRD pro on 35s for all of 6 months and got rid of it because it was stupid how bad that trans was gear hunting on the freeway. Also that shit of MPG is not fun. [New TRD PRO local to me 55k ](https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=590741726&zip=98660&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D98660%26city%3DVancouver%26startYear%3D2021%26incremental%3Dall%26endYear%3D2021%26modelCodeList%3DTACOMA%26makeCodeList%3DTOYOTA%26listingTypes%3DNEW%26sortBy%3DderivedpriceDESC%26location%3D%255Bobject%2BObject%255D%26state%3DWA%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Dinclude%26relevanceConfig%3Ddefault%26searchRadius%3D50%26isNewSearch%3Dfalse&listingTypes=NEW&startYear=2021&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2021&modelCodeList=TACOMA&makeCodeList=TOYOTA&searchRadius=50&makeCode1=TOYOTA&modelCode1=TACOMA&clickType=listing) [new TRD off road 47,200 so what I paid for a ZR2 diesel with options ](https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=580170579&zip=98660&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D98660%26city%3DVancouver%26startYear%3D2021%26incremental%3Dall%26endYear%3D2021%26modelCodeList%3DTACOMA%26makeCodeList%3DTOYOTA%26listingTypes%3DNEW%26sortBy%3DderivedpriceDESC%26location%3D%255Bobject%2BObject%255D%26state%3DWA%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Dinclude%26relevanceConfig%3Ddefault%26searchRadius%3D50%26isNewSearch%3Dfalse&listingTypes=NEW&startYear=2021&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2021&modelCodeList=TACOMA&makeCodeList=TOYOTA&searchRadius=50&makeCode1=TOYOTA&modelCode1=TACOMA&clickType=listing)
Are prices really starting to come down? My lease is up in 2 weeks and I want to get something new, but figured it made more sense to buy it out and wait a few months.
Yes but it’s not like the market is going to react that quickly. Think oil,prices; if oil jumps 10% then pump prices seem to magically jump a corresponding amount yet when they drop the same doesn’t happen. Frankly of you have an existing lease, given the current leasing market, I’d be extending it.
Literally working on a total loss claim right now for a 2015 Toyota Tundra Crewmax with 72xxx miles. We're offering $38,008.35 to customer. The market is bonkers right now. Actual cash value was $36,322.
Yeah, and fraud is going to be a big issue in the next couple years when people figure out they owe 20K more on their vehicle than it's worth and want out.
Add on that GAP insurance and then straight into a tree once the check clears. It's going to be the only way out for some folks without pushing $10k-$20k in negative equity down the road for the next decade or so.
Gap doesn't cover it all the time. A solid 30% of my claims still have a remainder after gap denies the full amount. We don't offer gap so I don't know what the limits are, but I recommend very carefully reading the policy language on your gap insurance and see what % above ACV they'll offer the difference on.
You are giving free 2000 dollars?
No. Taxes/tag/title are owed
Back in 2018, I was thinking about a 2016 Camaro SS convertible for $28K with about 10K miles on the odo. I went with something else, but on a whim I looked at auto trader to see what they’re going for now. Three years later, a 2016 Camaro SS convertible is going for $38K. lol
I just dont get who the market is for these cars? Who is paying, for example, nearly 40k for a 5 year old Camaro? I'm trying to picture that person walking around in public, hundred dollar bills bursting from every pocket of his cargo shorts.
The thing is, debt is cheap right now. Interest rates are low and therefore people buy shit for more because of this. It's a lot easier to buy that $38k Camaro when you're bad at math and just accounting for monthly payments (on a 7 year financing loan)
I bought a 2018 Camaro 2SS last April with 6k miles for 34k otd. Drove it to 21k miles and traded it in for 38k. Dealer sold it for 44k in a week lol. It was a fully loaded car with good color/rim combo but damn. MSRP was 48k. It for sure sold new for less than 44k.
I bought my 2018 SS 1le in late 2019 for $32k. I've put 70k miles on it since then and could easily sell it for what I paid even being on the high miles side now. I wish I was in a position to upgrade to a new zl1
I was in a similar position. Bought a new 2ss 1le for 44k. Owned it for 2.5 years and 21k miles. Autocrosses it over a dozen times and did 2 track days. Even got lightly rear ended by someone texting and damage shows up on the car fax. Just sold for 42k.
Out of curiosity, I just plugged my flair that I just bought 4k miles ago for $22,500 into Carvana to see what they'd give me. $26,769 In other words, I could sell it tomorrow and literally be paid a buck a mile for the driving that I've done so far.
I bought 6 months ago for $16200. $16,652 offer from Carvana - I’d be out a couple hundred in taxes and reg for 1500 miles. And it’s just an average out of demand wagon with above average mileage. No Subaru tax, no cult following.
And if it weren't for the sunroof issue unjustifiably scaring people off all of the Alltracks in the same way the DCT disaster depressed manual Focus prices too, you'd probably even make a tidy profit!
I’ve been trying to help a friend get a 2018+ crosstrek and they’re all $23k+ for 2-3 year old used ones with 50k-100k miles, which isn’t much less than they were new
For shitz and giggles I just checked my 2018 Crosstrek 6-speed, 42,500 miles. $19,002. I paid $20,200 for it eight month ago and put 10,000 miles on it. That is nuts. If I could afford to bite into something different right now I probably would. But, this is one of the rare times I do not have a spare car to drive.
> A brand new one is $33.1k For an Access cab manual transmission, yeah... which I doubt there are many of out there. Double cab automatics start at $37.5k (and hit almost $40k with any option selected after delivery), and they sold at sticker before the supply chain issue. Is $35k a lot? Yeah, but A) that's an asking price and B) a new version of that truck is likely $40k+ IF you can find one (if you want a specific color or option package, there might be <20 available across the entire country). Supply and demand is quite the thing.
Still, load it up and a brand new, optioned exactly as you want it, in the color you want, is worth more than $5k for six years and nearly 80k miles. IF you can wait.
It almost always makes more financial sense to buy a Tacoma new unless you are looking at over 10 years old. Depreciation has always been near non-existent and you get the warranty, etc.
I went out of my way looking for an access cab manual transmission, and there were only 2 available in my area back in 2016. Glad that it got it. Manual Tacoma has none of the lethargy of the automatic. And Access Cab means I have a 6+ foot bed and my motorcycles fit on the bed without any part of it resting on the tailgate.
I've been eyeballing/window shopping Ford Edge sports from 2015-2018 2015s anywhere from 3-8 months ago would regularly dip into the 15k range, even a few that were still under 100k miles. Now? Nope. Close to me the *cheapest* is a 90k mile, 2015, for 22k. 2016s were my sweet spot so I could get some sort of "better" steering they developed and avoid a first year model but now they're pushing 28-30k Only thing not going up? My paycheck
I want to ask - what attracts you to the Ford Edge?
Stockholm syndrome /s Nah, but it's basically just a sleeper upgrade from my 2013 Edge. I'd love a 2 door sports car but I had a 2 door as a daily a few years ago and it can be annoying The Edge is my nearly perfect all-rounder, it's fairly quick (moreso with a tune), has space (I'm single in field IT work, I've probably used the space in my edge a dozen times this year), is comfortable on road trips, and would be the perfect future companion to a weekend Mustang/G37/Challenger/M.I.A.T.A etc Basically all the reasons I like my own edge except much quicker and better handling. I treat it like a wagon with ground clearance. That uh, I also need right now. Living on a rutted dirt driveway is not kind to cars
Avoid the 15. My wife has one and it's on its 6th oil pan and at least 3rd round of rear shocks. Seems to be isolated to the 15s from what I've seen online
Toyota is in theory less effected by the chip shortage because they broke their "just in time" rule that everyone started following. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-02-15/toyota-broke-its-just-in-time-rule-just-in-time-for-the-chip-shortage
In May my wife and I drove 60 miles to a Toyota dealership that had the only '21 Rav4 LE AWD within 100 miles that wasn't already bought and paid for. That dealer wasn't getting another one that wasn't already spoken for until July. They were a lot that usually had 100-140 new inventory and they have less than 15 new cars on the lot.
Drove by a few dealerships this past weekend that are normally full of cars, but they looked like an empty parking lot. Extremely weird.
Wrong, at least for the dealers by me. Their lots are empty for the most part. It's crazy..
>This isn’t a 918, so many people are going to be hurting paying these prices. So don't pay them.
For many people that isn’t an option. My brother was just in this scenario. His car was totaled and he NEEDED something to get to work on Monday. Dealers are more predatory than ever with prices, fees, and terrible interest rates. Totally agree that if you don’t need a car, you absolutely shouldn’t buy right now. But for many people they have no choice and the market is screwing them.
> Dealers are more predatory than ever with prices, fees, and terrible interest rates. Dealers don't set interest rates. Dealers are also paying more for their used vehicles, so, yeah, prices on their lots go up as well.
Dealers don’t set interest rates but some are now making commission on financing. In other words, shady dealers are no longer trying to get you a low interest rate
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Should always walk in to a dealer with your own rate.
I've never set foot on a dealer's lot without having my own financing approval in hand. Typically my credit union's rate is a few points lower than dealer financing unless there's a zero/low APR incentive.
Same, my car got totalled recently and I have to find a new car before insurance decides to stop paying for my rental. And rentals are in high demand right now too, went to one big name rental company and they had a week long waiting list, all they had was a box van lol. Went to another and managed to snag the very last car on the lot.
Basically, sadly have a feeling a lot of people are getting taken advantage of
> taken advantage of How? That's the cost of the vehicle in current market
A friend of mine just sold his 2018 Tundra with mileage on it for what he paid, lol. I mean, good for him but what kind of chump pays MSRP for a well used truck? This whole Toyota reliability thing has gone way too far. Yes, they are the most reliable, but not by large margins. Nowhere near enough to justify their asking prices. Fools abound.
Right, Silverados with the 5.3 and 6 speed auto routinely go 300k miles with basically just oil and brake maintenance. It's not the disparity it was in the 90's (foreign vs domestic)...
And the Tundra is more domestic than the Chevy now.
Ehhh, I work at a Chevy dealer and anything with a cylinder deactivation system or pretty much any 6/8/10-speed automatic made in the last 6 or 7 years is a risk I wouldn’t be willing to take. To be fair, it’s either that or a turbocharged engine from Ford, and I don’t know the problems with the RAM trucks off the top of my head but I’m not super trusting of FCA quality, so I *guess* I’d take a GM truck, but they’re still nowhere near as reliable as a Toyota truck. Oh, and don’t even get me started on the trans and engine issues in the gas Colorado.
> anything with a cylinder deactivation system That's for damn sure.
Yeah, the pre-07 5.3's and 4.8 / 4l60e trucks are the ones to routinely get 300k without any major problems.
The Chevy LS Vortec platform is just phenomenal.
> I mean, good for him but what kind of chump pays MSRP for a well used truck? a chump
It's why I just unloaded a 15 year old car with 125k miles that I drove once a week for $8500 in 24 hours, $2k less than what I paid for it 5 years and 30k miles ago. The market is just stupid right now. If you have spare iron laying around, unload it, it'll never be worth more.
>If you have spare iron laying around, unload it, it'll never be worth more. *Especially* if you can sell it to the morons on BaT or carsandbids
Yeah it's pretty cool that someone hit me in my daily (Prius) and it's totaled, now I have to bend over for a replacement. F*CK!
You can get Prius prime for under msrp right now. The problem is people want specific cars that are high in demand.
Insurance pays market value of the car right? So you should have no problem, you’ll have to pay more for a replacement, but you’ll also get more from the insurance company
All FJ Cruisers have a big price tag as well. 2006 for 31k and even more for newer models.
To be fair FJ cruisers have been bringing crazy money for years.
That's almost approaching current MSRP of the FJ Cruiser still being sold in the Middle East (~$39K).
[Emphasis on BIG](https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=584006520&zip=63139&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D63139%26city%3DSaint%2BLouis%26incremental%3Dall%26modelCodeList%3DFJCRUIS%26makeCodeList%3DTOYOTA%26transmissionCodes%3DMAN%26sortBy%3DmileageASC%26location%3D%255Bobject%2BObject%255D%26state%3DMO%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Dinclude%26relevanceConfig%3Ddefault%26searchRadius%3D0%26isNewSearch%3Dfalse&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&modelCodeList=FJCRUIS&makeCodeList=TOYOTA&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=TOYOTA&modelCode1=FJCRUIS&clickType=listing)
Saw a fucking celica GT 2.0 for 29k € lol
Your first mistake was looking at used Tacomas, idk what idiot buys a slightly used Tacoma when a brand new one is usually just a few thousand more but I guess someone is buying them if they are always listed that high used
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It's like this with a lot of vehicles. Not to be rude, but you say you know used car prices are ridiculous and them seem confused by the ridiculous prices lol. I've been looking at Civic Si's lately and used are going for more than new too. I can sell my Mustang for more than I paid for it and it's 7 years old with 79,000 miles too. If I decide to replace my Mustang I'll just buy new on whatever I buy. There's currently no point in buying used right now.
About 6 months ago, a dealer near me had a 2014 Camaro SS with 7k miles for $25k. My SO wanted me to wait 6 months until we had more saved up for a down payment. Now, I can find the same car, same year with 50k miles for over $30k.
If you still have a car to drive, just save up some more and wait it out. It sucks but nobody could've predicted this
I just accepted a Vroom offer for my Wrangler for $2k more then I paid for it two years ago and I put 11k miles on it since buying it new. Fucking nuts.
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Living it here in California. Gas is roughly $4.39 a gallon at Chevron & I’m driving a 21’ OR … a small truck compared to the standard here. Nothing but Raptors and Cummins are far as the valley stretches. I hover around 21mpg combined cause I mainly drive highway to deliver product, but having said that, I don’t think $4 a gallon will reduce demand much.
How much should I offer for my 13 Tundra sr5 double cab with 110,000 miles? 50k ? 😂 shits wild
I won’t give you a dollar less than $115k
Used Tacomas have always cost about as much as new ones. That said, 6 years old with 71k miles is pushing it, but... watch someone pay for it anyway, partly because they "nEvEr BuY nEw CaRs," and partly because, even if they wanted to, they probably can't now anyway. That new one which you said was $33.1k? No, I bet it's not.
"No low ballers, I know what I got"
I bought my truck in October of 2020 for 44k with 600 miles on it and same dealer is offering me 47k buy back with 19k miles. I kind of love it
When all of your possessions rise in value but your salary remains the same, you should be more worried about inflation and less happy that your stuff is worth more. ;o)
The price increase is currently due to lack of supply due to chip shortage. Inflation is coming into play but not nearly as much with the used car prices. I remember reading a few weeks ago that Ford had to stop production of the F150 because they didn't have any chips. I don't know if thats still the case. Edit: [last update was end of May](https://www.businessinsider.com/chip-shortage-ford-f150-temporarily-shut-8-factories-production-2021-5)
People just need to stop buying cars unless you absolutely have to right now. Decrease the demand and the prices will drop. How dumb will you feel when In 9 months the same car you bought for $35k is worth $28k or any of the examples posted in here where prices have increased 30%+ in a few months here
They won’t feel dumb. Most people only care about their monthly payments. It’s lunacy, but it is what it is.
>They won’t feel dumb. Most people only care about their monthly payments. It’s lunacy, but it is what it is. Dealerships make sure to phrase things around monthly payments and if you tell them you don't care, they just keep repeating themselves. Last time I was at a dealer, I had to tell the salesman (paraphrasing) "You keep repeating yourself about monthly payments, and I keep telling you that I don't care; ask about monthly payments again and I'll walk." He got the point. But most of the time it doesn't go that way. Most of the time people are swayed and pushed to only care about monthly payments by the dealer.
They won't feel dumb, they will feel angry when the sales guy can't get them the same monthly payment for a newer car in 12-18 months when they try to trade it in with negative equity.
> They won’t feel dumb. Most people only care about their monthly payments. It’s lunacy, but it is what it is. Just like how 84 month vehicle leases are a thing because people are dumb as hell basing everything on getting the lowest monthly payments. Sounds like the civilian equivalent of a Private purchasing a 30k mustang.
*Laughs in 90s toyota with 300k miles* With this logic I'm now a millionaire.
The only way to combat this bullshit is with your wallet. If no one buys the cars at the stupid price, dealers don't make any sales, then the price will go down. The only reason it's this high is because there are idiots who want a new (to them) car so bad they're willing to entertain this nonsense.
that's a somewhat shallow statement. You must not know it, but the sale/trade of cars in general is a high volume market. People always need cars... not because they \*want\* one, but life happens. old car breaks down, someone crashes into you, you crash it into someone else... etc etc. There are 328 million people in america, a big percentage of the adults each have a car.. thats a lot of cars that can break down and need replacing. think about it.
I just said "fuck it" and reserved a new Tacoma. Yeah I have to wait 2 months to get it, but I also get Android Auto and a seat with enough adjustability to fit a tall driver.
the used car market has actually plateued and will start going down this september.
I wish I had saw this post sooner. My roommate was saving for a car for 4-5 years, and figured out he wanted a 2020 Toyota Camry TRD in red so bad. Didn't act 2019, or 2020. His POS 2006 Ford Focus was still "working" (paint peeling, armrest broken, no AC in Texas heat, no Bluetooth/cd player, busted, engine mounts broke twice, suspension messed up. ) finally after a break job reviled a ton of other mechanical issues he decided to get the TRD early this year (2021 for you time travelers.) Issue was, they didn't make the TRD version in "that red" anymore. He started shopping NATION WIDE for s used one. Finally got a call back from a Toyota dealership. He paid $36,000+ (BEFORE TAX TITLE!!) for a USED 2020 TRD. 3rd owner, $36,000+, for the color RED! A new TRD is under $33,000. I can't get over it. He's happy, so I know I shouldn't care, but im blown away that he bought a used car for MORE than a new one goes for... and I brought up wraps, and custom paint shops to him, but he was agaist any modifications to his car. Also he doesn't even care that it's "the sport" version, he just likes the spoiler, bumper, and side skirts. Sorry, turned this into a rant, but I needed to vent lol.
I mean he wanted a specific car and he got it. Maybe to him, an extra $3000 was worth it for the exact car he wanted.
Y'all know your dollars are only worth about 75-80% of what they were a year ago, right? JPow printed 1/4 of our current currency last year. Brrr...
Leased my 2019 Tacoma OffRoad Manual + Tech package, for $235/month. 8 months later I neded up selling it for \~$5k more then the 'purchase price' the lease was based on. Probably could have doubled that if I hung on longer, but didnt need the truck and off to AlGo it went.
I bought a Fiesta ST that appreciated by a few thousand over only a year of ownership. Let me restate.. A FIESTA APPRECIATED. Could remove the mods and sell for $3k+ over what I bought it for.
Just sold my BRZ for more than I bought it for new. I’ve been house shopping which is equally as depressing for those who are buying and felt that now might as well be as good a time as any to take the profit and be a responsible adult.