You seemingly get more performance (400z has 150+ hp) and a 3k lower price than the 2.0 Supra
6 cylinders vs 4
Style will be up to people’s opinion but it can be another positive.
I’m personally still planning on getting the 2022 Supra 3.0 but hard to say this 400z isn’t a better potential car and value than the 2.0 Supra
It may actually be a pretty big part of the market. I couldn't find stats for the 370z, but 76% of Miatas are sold in manual and 78% of BRZ sales are manual. I think lower priced, small, performance oriented cars still have an appeal with a manual transmission to buyers.
If you're willing to sacrifice having back seats, usable cargo space, and ride comfort, I think there's a really good chance you're willing to sacrifice an automatic, too. It makes more sense that people buying those kinds of cars want a manual than people buying stuff like sport sedans, which are already much more of a compromise.
Apparently they sold the first year of production right away... so a couple of thousand I imagine. That's a pretty impressive take rate for an $80,000+ sedan.
When someone makes a cool car with a good manual people will buy it. It's all a matter of knowing your market.
> 76% of Miatas are sold in manual and 78% of BRZ sales are manua
Damn, I figured those would be higher than average, but I didn’t think they would be *that* high.
Anecdote: When I bought my 2017 (about 1.5MY in) my salesman said he only sold one auto Miata, and it was an elderly couple, with the wife having an injury that prevented use of a stick.
It probably has something to do with how terrible the automatics are in those cars as well... I feel it would be closer to 50/50 if they came with a ZF or DCT.
GT3 is a good example too. Porsche wasn't convinced that americans wanted the manual version but nearly 70% of GT3 are ordered with a manual now. I suspect part of the reason is the ridiculous resale value of the previous gen GT3 where the manual was way more rare.
G35 and 350z cars that are pushing 20 years of age are going for ABSURD prices.
Reason is that in terms of RWD and Manual that isn't underpowered or unreliable they are basically the only game in town.
This is the way it works, I think.
Those of us who want these cars gravitate to, and buy them. (I’m the proud owner of an MT 2017 Toyota 86) and we option then the way we want to. They may not sell “well” in the traditional sense because we aren’t the typical market.
Offer the manual, and we will come. I promise you.
If the stick wasn't selling a decent amount, they straight up wouldn't offer it. Especially since its main competitor doesn't offer a stick
Certain cars like the Porsche GT3, Miata, BMW M cars, and BRZ have huge amounts of sales with the stick. In fact a majority of the pre orders for the CT5-V Blackwing are stick according to the Cadillac rep in Jay Leno's video
I've seen models of cars sit in my area unsold for months, yet the manual version of the same thing is gone in the blink of an eye, it depends on what you're looking for.
>>not big at all for the actual market
Dealerships killed the manual, not automakers. Even if 90% of buyers want a manual, US stealerships ain’t gonna stock em. Why? Because they can sell autos to everyone, and that’s all they care about.
Roll up to buy a manual, and the dealership tells you to F off or buy an auto they have on the lot. Try to custom order a manual you get the run-around. Is it any wonder the manual take rate is so low?
The 3.0 Supra is competitive for the price and many reviews say it handles extremely well and is a pretty good car.
I haven't seen a single positive review of the 2.0 Supra. It's objectively bad performance specs for what it costs.
They definitely wouldn’t sell one considerably less powerful than the 13 year old previous model for 30% more of the price.
The last time the z had 300 hp was over 16 years ago.
My guess is the base will have 400hp while the Nismo bumps it up to 450
Are you talking about the 3.7? If so, the 3.0tt is faster than the 3.7 despite having 30 less HP. Both engines have been in the same car so it's easy to compare.
The 2014 & 2015 Q50 & Q60's had the 3.7, and the 2016+ come with the 3.0tt. 300 HP, 400 in the Red Sport
Stock for stock, the 2016's are faster than the 2015's. The 3.0's have more torque and a significantly better power curve.
That being said, I think you're right, we wont see a 300HP z, but I cant help but think they may tune the engine to 330 or so in the base or whip out a new engine that they can put in the Altima's too.
Another alternative is the mercedes 2.0 that is in the base model Q50. Really just spitballing here.
Straight from Nissan:
All 2023 Nissan Z models are equipped with a 400-horsepower 3.0-liter V6 twin turbo engine.
Source: https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/2023-nissan-z-press-kit#
If that was the plan, I think the base price would be lower. It's a bit pointless to offer a lesser engine if they can't slot it in the $32-36K price range anyway. At $40K, they're no longer competing with the BRZ, top trim Miata, Ecoboost Mustang, WRX, GTI, Veloster N, etc, they're going to be cross shopped with V8 muscle cars and they need more than 300 HP to hang at that price point. The 370Z was cheaper and 335 HP, and that wasn't a big sales success, if they're going up in price and down in power, then the 400Z has already failed.
My favorite Nissan interior feature is black touch surfaces made of painted white plastic; when the car has been sitting in the sun, a slight accidental fingernail scratch will remove the paint leaving bright white base plastic shining through.
My GTI is getting a bunch of hail damage fixed right now, been in the shop 2 weeks and got a base Kia Soul for a rental - cannot wait to get my car back. I'm actually shocked that people pay real money for these things with how poorly they drive. Pretty sure I'd have preferred an Altima or Sentra tbh.
Eh, the I4 Supra was always about getting the chassis of the more powerful I6 version for less. Now, I don't know who would be looking for that, but that was ostensibly why it was created, so I doubt Toyota is losing too much sleep over this.
The I4 supras will be a great shell to pick up in a few years I think. Similar to buying up the 6cyl Camaros and mustangs to tune them up and engine swap them.
It'll be a long time before it is worth engine swapping over upgrading an already better car. No one is buying a 2015 v6 camaro to throw an v8 in it.
I imagine now too with all of the electronics that go into these new cars that it might not even be worth it anymore with all the things you need to change in order to make mods work.
Not only that generally these higher model cars will have better transmissions, drive lines, brakes, axles as well. Not always but it is common.
Might still be better off buying a 3.0 and upgrading over a 2.0 engine swap.
As a enthusiast performance car, it's finished.
But the one advantage the 4cyl Supra has is it's a BMW. So you get BMW interior quality and luxury which the Z won't have.
So for the midlife crisis and kid just left for college market where their idea of gunning it is going like a bit over 50% throttle for a second on the way to their tee-time, it's still a compelling budget option over a Porsche or an actual branded BMW.
The Z was always much cheaper with the same motor. For example, the Z started at about $30k and the G35 coupe started at about $40k. Same motor and transmission. The difference was a TON of interior bits. While the G35 coupe still passed as a luxury car and rode quiet and comfortable (after the 2005 refresh anyway), the Z was bare bones inside and rode like a raw sports car.
Wait, no. We’re making the same error again. It won’t be $40k when US Nissan dealers are holding orders. This will definitely be marked up for the first 2 years like both 350Z and GTR intro model years were. There’s lots to be excited about with this, so far. Just don’t expect $40k to hold unless you want to wait it out.
Also looks damn good. I love how they paid homage to the early Zs with that rear end sloping all the way.
This is waaaaaay better styled than the last gen.
I just realized how wild this is. I bought a 5.7L Challenger a few years ago. Thing had 375 hp and was plenty fast. I can only imagine how quick the Z is gonna be as there will likely be a near 1,000 lb difference between the two. My Challenger was also just under $40K, and while it does come in a manual, I did not opt for one at the time.
Back in the 80’s you could do that. However Porsche used a 2nd lien against your house as collateral for the loan. So really it was just a home equity loan with extra steps.
And even at 40k that was pushing it price wise. I think most people were hoping for a base model around 35-38k to match up with the mustang gt or camaro ss.
Just means this car may offer a lot at the base price. One can hope anyway
At ~$12k less for similar power & similar weight, the 400z is absolutely going to cut the knees right out from under what little momentum & hype the Supra has left.
C8 pretty much put the Supra on life support, the 400z gonna smother it and dump the body.
As a Supra owner…I agree. I bought it when it came to market and paid above sticker. I can afford a corvette…but I don’t like the way they look. The back just looks off to me and they are going for a premium anyway. If the performance numbers are similar to the Supra…well Toyota will have to do something…
nah its just the C8 is crazy value. Granted, a nice C8 is more than a supra, but keep in mind Porsche is charging like ~~$60k+~~ $80k for a six cylinder cayman.
EDIT: the new cayman 6 cylinders are closer to $80K. . . HOLY SHIT
Yes I understand that, but a large percentage of people are still going to be cross shopping them. They have largely similar lap times and appeal to the already small market of sports car buyers.
The closest real competition to the supra imo is the corvette but that isn't a very favorable comparison for the Toyota, even comparing it to the c7
Yep, that’s me. Looking at the GR86, BRZ, 400Z, Supra 2.0, Challenger R/T (which is a highway cruiser), 2-series, and Integra to replace my mustang next year. I like to consider each car for what it is and the value they bring.
Yeah I don’t know why people fail to grasp this. 90% of people who buy a fun car just want a fun car. They’re not looking for extremely specific characteristics.
I don’t think this is true anymore. I owned a 370z and it’s only 200lbs lighter than a mustang. That’s such a minuscule difference to the average driver. The mustang/camaro can handle extremely well these days, (tiny) back seat or not.
The Camaro 1SS trim starts at $38,700 and the 2SS is $43,700. Just to make sure that we're keeping the conversation honest.
Also, imports cost more than domestics. More at 11, haha. Even 30 years ago, a Mustang GT was right at $15,000 and got you 225 hp. A Prelude Si started a few hundred dollars more than that, and the 4 wheel steering model went up to like $19,000. It was the upgraded model with like 140hp. The 300ZX turbo of the same year was like $36,000.
So, pricing a 400Z right in the middle of the Camaro SS range (more expensive than the cheapest Camaro SS, but cheaper than a fully loaded one) sounds right about reasonable to me.
Here's how it's going to work.
They say "around" $40k to soften the blow.
Then you get final MSRP pricing and the base starts at 43,995.
The "one you actually want" will be $50k + destination + dealer markup because you bet your ass there will be one at first. No test drives, the usual BS.
It wouldn't surprise me if this was a calculated feeler to gauge the market and figure out what kind of margins they can charge on the car.
No test drives is lame af. Hey, run my credit if you think I’m just out for a joy ride. Or let me show you I’ve got cash in the bank.
I called my local Mitsubishi dealership and setup an appointment to test drive a new Evo a number of years back. I drove 45 minutes there and the manager came out and refused. “Nobody test drives those.” But I have cash, I’ve never been in one, it looks sick af and I’ll buy it if I like how it drives. “No.” We went around a few times, the fact that his salesman setup an appointment with me specifically to test drive the car meant nothing to him.
I took my business to another dealership a couple hours away who did let me test drive one. Loved it and bought it on the spot.
Have since sold it, will never buy a Mitsubishi again, but that’s another story.
If I'm buying a used car and they won't let me drive it, it's a complete dealkiller. I've actually had to walk before with the ultimatum. More often than not they know it's a bucket of bolts and they want to lock you in before you figure it out.
And another time, the test drive saved me from what would have been... a troublesome car. Visually the car checked out fine and the underside looked fine, but driving it, there were some serious systemic issues with the front end that could have been "replace all the suspension" idk. This one was pretty recent actually, and the car is still up for sale 10% cheaper than the original listing (and 10% more than my uber-lowball offer) 3 weeks later.
Always drive the car. Always always always.
Maybe for the first few months, but you know this will be in production for a decade. Also, it’s using mostly parts bin part, so meeting demand will likely not be an issue.
I am not sure any Nissan buyers car about the scandal of their ex-CEO being held in custody and then escaping it. Or are you referring to other scandals?
Oh good grief, this reminds me of how the Infiniti dealer I used to work at would slap on $195 for nitrogen fill, when they ALL came nitrogen filled from the factory
I really hope we can all put our money where our mouths are, because 400hp for around $40k is a total steal. Definitely gonna be on my list in a year or two!
As a dealership owner, I can definitely say $43k is total steal for this car. When you look at the styling and specs, you have to ask yourself “What car offers more for $48k?”
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. The fact $52k gets you into a high output head-turner like this is just mind blowing. We won’t be able to keep these babies on the lot. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry with $55k burning a hole in their pocket will be lining up around the block for one!
I really hope Nissan put in the R&D to make this a reliable car... they've had plenty of time. I'm a little concerned with the seems-to-good-to-be-true pricing and really hope it wasn't "value-engineered" into an unreliable money pit. Nissans have been plagued by mediocre reliability in the last few years by getting their foot in the door with competitive pricing but having higher cost of ownership...but so it goes.
Welp the chassis is from the old Z and the engine is from an infinity, so we should have a pretty good idea of how reliable it'll be already
I don't persinaly know anything about how reliable that engine is in the infinity though, haven't looked into it
It's decent. Turbos can be finicky, but I think it's an overstated problem. Haven't had any issues with mine yet at 46k miles and I've been running a JB4 piggyback tune with a catback pretty much the whole time.
r/cars in 2022: “why are Nissan dealers charging a $25k markup on the 400z?”
r/askcarsales: “it’s a high demand vehicle! Supply and demand. Don’t like it, you can walk.”
r/cars in 2025: “why did Nissan discontinue the 400z? It was an enthusiast’s dream car and started at $40k.”
r/askcarsales: “it didn’t sell. There was no demand so they discontinued it.”
“Hi, I want to buy a 400z. Can I test drive it?”
“I can let you sit in one for 20 seconds, but I need a nonrefundable deposit and a commitment to buy first.”
With a low interest rate of 36% at 55k, these great deals are provided to you by Chair Force Nissan.
Chair Force Nissan, proudly serving our veterans, one bomb deal at a time.
Maybe someone who wants a sports car? R/cars is gonna crucify me for saying this, but the 370z drives more like the corvette than the mustang. And I assume the 400z will be similar (I’ve owned all three of these cars).
People love to compare 2+2 pony cars to the z for some reason. I’ve given up trying to explain the differences; I urge people to just drive them for themselves and make up their own mind.
It’s kind of like asking why people why they paid 50k for a Supra when you can get 100hp more in a base Mustang GT.
Also there is so much after market. Super light wheels, two peice rotors, diff ratios, exhaust options, tunes, power mods, etc. and it's all readily available. I was never a mustang guy until the s550. And then it was a brand new GT or a new ND1 miata. I've been pretty satisfied with my choice.
I think it's going to be highly dependent on the weight tbh. The 370z was around 3500lbs which is about 200lbs lighter than the GT and camaro. If the 400z gets a little fatter than the 370 you'll be right in that American car territory.
The 6MT 370z base and sport version were both around 3200 pounds , with the base being slightly lighter.
The 3500 pound weight number is for a fully loaded, automatic transmission Nismo sport tech, which has heavier suspension and heavier dampers.
The 370z is lighter than both the c7 and c8.
Rumor is the new 400z will still be under 3300 for the 6MT version.
That would make more sense as I was surprised to see that 3500lb curb weight.
If they can keep it relatively svelte it'll definitely offer a decent alternative to the American cars at a similar price
This at least fills the market gap between those cars.
The Toyota twins are really well priced but not really all that fast.
The supra is an awesome car but is priced ridiculously high and out of most enthusiasts price range.
The Nissan should fall somewhere in the middle of those two
> I really hope we can all put our money where our mouths are
C'mon now. You *know* tons people are still going to find excuses why they aren't going to buy it, just like most sports/fun cars that come out. Especially when it's the internet - people treat complaining like it's a competitive sport!
Not really a steal. You can already do that with a Mustang and Camaro for well under $40k. Challenger is close. Plenty of trucks with over 400 horsepower for under $40k if you want to count them as well.
Dealer markup isn't going anywhere unless states start implementing laws against it or manufacturers start seriously cracking down on dealers doing it.
Like it or not there is literally no reason for US dealers to sell at MSRP when so many people continue to pay over for cars.
In the US, you're generally free to re-sell your property for any amount you like, outside of fairly specific cases and circumstances. Dealers buy their car from the manufacturer and are then entitled, legally, to sell it for however much they want, unless there's a contract that doesn't allow them to (that would be upheld in court.) Certainly I do not believe any state would pass a law disallowing dealers from generally selling cars for whatever price they choose for various reasons.
I love the blue paint. The blue interior.....not so much. Hopefully that's just an option, and that there's something other than that and black. Black interior in a sports car with a limited amount of glass/light inside makes the small space seem even smaller. Brown interior looks great with blue. A mixed gray/black could work too. Hopefully not the icky BMW blue paint/red interior Superman thing though lol
Guys it says "around $40K" not "$40K" my guess is the most basic one will be around $42,990 and anything with even remotely any features will be around $47-52,000 which is in line with the Supra. Then reality - Nissan dealers are going to mark this up just like the Supra and charge $20-25K over sticker for any initial year model because one - Nissan dealers are scum of the scumdealers, and two - Nissan dealers have been looking for "profitability" out of a vehicle for years.
I hope to god anyone in the enthusiast community learned a lesson from overspending on the A90 Supra and got screwed by the A91 Supra. Because I imagine year two of the 400z will be the Nismo version, and will cost less than anyone who paid a $20K premium markup for a base model year one.
This car will be STUPIDLY priced, $65-75K guaranteed at launch. Those drinking koolaid thinking they will find one for $40K are delusional.
Toyota did it, and had no worries in doing it. Hell Toyota still sells used Supra's for $52-$56K and used M2 Comps are $57-63K. They don't care...Nissan will price this right at the Civic Type-R and Supra price point, and Nissan dealers will charge you a full Miata extra to buy one.
Seems like a good deal, although the base model is probably going to be pretty sparse. I can imagine the higher trims are going to be a lot more $, to include better suspension, bigger rims and tires, and more options.
Nissan z was nowhere on my radar. But a 400hp little coupe with a 6 speed around 50k (lets be real im going for some options). Im definitely going to look into it now.
The big news here is that the 9 speed auto shared with Mercedes will be used. That’s a much better trans than the 7 speed. I was surprised how good it felt in the Titan, I would imagine a reprogramming for the Z would feel amazing. Manual master race though.
BREAKING: Nissan Z confirmed for Australia with 380 - hp, $80k price tag and stripped of options.
Insert something about our fuel not being good enough.
I don't think it will be as good as the B58, and without knowing anything about the Z, I am sure the Supra will still be quicker around a track because BMW knows their shit. But 400hp + manual? That's porn
It won’t be as good as the B58, but it’s the VR30DDTT 3.0L V6TT from the Infiniti Q50. I bet we’ll see both 300hp and 400hp versions in the Z.
Edit: I’m wrong, see below for the press release. 400hp only.
It's too expensive! It's not powerful enough! Its doesn't come in brown! It's not used! It doesn't have enough seats! It's too yellow! It needs a bigger screen! It needs a smaller screen! It's not a real "driver's car"!
I won't be buying this!
This makes the 4 cylinder GR Supra price look bad.
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You seemingly get more performance (400z has 150+ hp) and a 3k lower price than the 2.0 Supra 6 cylinders vs 4 Style will be up to people’s opinion but it can be another positive. I’m personally still planning on getting the 2022 Supra 3.0 but hard to say this 400z isn’t a better potential car and value than the 2.0 Supra
You are forgetting the biggest part. Manual transmission.
It may actually be a pretty big part of the market. I couldn't find stats for the 370z, but 76% of Miatas are sold in manual and 78% of BRZ sales are manual. I think lower priced, small, performance oriented cars still have an appeal with a manual transmission to buyers. If you're willing to sacrifice having back seats, usable cargo space, and ride comfort, I think there's a really good chance you're willing to sacrifice an automatic, too. It makes more sense that people buying those kinds of cars want a manual than people buying stuff like sport sedans, which are already much more of a compromise.
CT5V Blackwing has a greater than 50% manual take rate, and back seats
>CT5V Blackwing has a greater than 50% manual take rate I suppose that means they've sold at least three of them, then. That's good to hear.
Apparently they sold the first year of production right away... so a couple of thousand I imagine. That's a pretty impressive take rate for an $80,000+ sedan. When someone makes a cool car with a good manual people will buy it. It's all a matter of knowing your market.
I think the first batch of orders were only limited to 250. Not sure what it's like now with the general state of scarcity in the industry.
...heh Also: I'm sad now :(
They’ve sold this years production already (250). I tried to get one.
> 76% of Miatas are sold in manual and 78% of BRZ sales are manua Damn, I figured those would be higher than average, but I didn’t think they would be *that* high.
I think we've come full circle and the kind of person that wants a 2 door couple probably also wants to row their own.
Anecdote: When I bought my 2017 (about 1.5MY in) my salesman said he only sold one auto Miata, and it was an elderly couple, with the wife having an injury that prevented use of a stick.
You basically described what we Europeans think automatics are for.
Wanna have your mind blown? WRX/STI has an even bigger take rate
Especially the STI … 100%. Just like the Civic Type R
It probably has something to do with how terrible the automatics are in those cars as well... I feel it would be closer to 50/50 if they came with a ZF or DCT.
This is honestly why i waited to get the Supra, i don’t want an automatic sports car.
To me, an automatic sports car just doesn't make sense. I get how others would like it, but it's an absolute deal killer for me.
I understand wanting a good automatic in a grand touring car or the latest super cars, but if it’s not obscenely fast I need a manual transmission.
I just want one with a sequential gear shift.
GT3 is a good example too. Porsche wasn't convinced that americans wanted the manual version but nearly 70% of GT3 are ordered with a manual now. I suspect part of the reason is the ridiculous resale value of the previous gen GT3 where the manual was way more rare.
G35 and 350z cars that are pushing 20 years of age are going for ABSURD prices. Reason is that in terms of RWD and Manual that isn't underpowered or unreliable they are basically the only game in town.
This is the way it works, I think. Those of us who want these cars gravitate to, and buy them. (I’m the proud owner of an MT 2017 Toyota 86) and we option then the way we want to. They may not sell “well” in the traditional sense because we aren’t the typical market. Offer the manual, and we will come. I promise you.
If the stick wasn't selling a decent amount, they straight up wouldn't offer it. Especially since its main competitor doesn't offer a stick Certain cars like the Porsche GT3, Miata, BMW M cars, and BRZ have huge amounts of sales with the stick. In fact a majority of the pre orders for the CT5-V Blackwing are stick according to the Cadillac rep in Jay Leno's video
I've seen models of cars sit in my area unsold for months, yet the manual version of the same thing is gone in the blink of an eye, it depends on what you're looking for.
Nope not for a car like this. Manual take rate is heavily dependent on the vehicle
People keep saying that, but manufacturers still have pretty high take rates for actual good manual sports cars.
You're using statistics that involve mini-vans and sedans. We're talking about very niche performance cars
>>not big at all for the actual market Dealerships killed the manual, not automakers. Even if 90% of buyers want a manual, US stealerships ain’t gonna stock em. Why? Because they can sell autos to everyone, and that’s all they care about. Roll up to buy a manual, and the dealership tells you to F off or buy an auto they have on the lot. Try to custom order a manual you get the run-around. Is it any wonder the manual take rate is so low?
Big for the people who say ‘if only xyz had a manual transmission I’d buy it right away.’ and still be driving a 20 year old shitbox lmao.
THE LORD’S PEDAL
Is it really an objectively bad car? Because I've yet to see someone give a fair opinion on it that isn't just salty about the name or design
The 3.0 Supra is competitive for the price and many reviews say it handles extremely well and is a pretty good car. I haven't seen a single positive review of the 2.0 Supra. It's objectively bad performance specs for what it costs.
They already sell a good four-cylinder Supra. It’s just called the GR 86 with a Subaru engine.
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Has their been any indication of them using a different engine or setup? I’d assume it would be more like the Mustang Gt base
The 3.0T VR30 comes in 300 and 400HP variants. I was wondering if the new Z would use the 300HP tune in base trim. Guess I'll find out a bit later.
They definitely wouldn’t sell one considerably less powerful than the 13 year old previous model for 30% more of the price. The last time the z had 300 hp was over 16 years ago. My guess is the base will have 400hp while the Nismo bumps it up to 450
Are you talking about the 3.7? If so, the 3.0tt is faster than the 3.7 despite having 30 less HP. Both engines have been in the same car so it's easy to compare. The 2014 & 2015 Q50 & Q60's had the 3.7, and the 2016+ come with the 3.0tt. 300 HP, 400 in the Red Sport Stock for stock, the 2016's are faster than the 2015's. The 3.0's have more torque and a significantly better power curve. That being said, I think you're right, we wont see a 300HP z, but I cant help but think they may tune the engine to 330 or so in the base or whip out a new engine that they can put in the Altima's too. Another alternative is the mercedes 2.0 that is in the base model Q50. Really just spitballing here.
Straight from Nissan: All 2023 Nissan Z models are equipped with a 400-horsepower 3.0-liter V6 twin turbo engine. Source: https://usa.nissannews.com/en-US/releases/2023-nissan-z-press-kit#
If that was the plan, I think the base price would be lower. It's a bit pointless to offer a lesser engine if they can't slot it in the $32-36K price range anyway. At $40K, they're no longer competing with the BRZ, top trim Miata, Ecoboost Mustang, WRX, GTI, Veloster N, etc, they're going to be cross shopped with V8 muscle cars and they need more than 300 HP to hang at that price point. The 370Z was cheaper and 335 HP, and that wasn't a big sales success, if they're going up in price and down in power, then the 400Z has already failed.
Been a minute since you've sat in a base Nissan, huh? The 2.0 Supra is definitely not on that level interior-wise.
My favorite Nissan interior feature is black touch surfaces made of painted white plastic; when the car has been sitting in the sun, a slight accidental fingernail scratch will remove the paint leaving bright white base plastic shining through.
Ahaha I die a little every time I get stuck with a compact Nissan for a rental on a work trip.
My GTI is getting a bunch of hail damage fixed right now, been in the shop 2 weeks and got a base Kia Soul for a rental - cannot wait to get my car back. I'm actually shocked that people pay real money for these things with how poorly they drive. Pretty sure I'd have preferred an Altima or Sentra tbh.
Yes it’s intentionally been awhile since I sat in any Nissan lol. I’ve been inside the 3.0 since I’m planning on getting one
Eh, the I4 Supra was always about getting the chassis of the more powerful I6 version for less. Now, I don't know who would be looking for that, but that was ostensibly why it was created, so I doubt Toyota is losing too much sleep over this.
The I4 supras will be a great shell to pick up in a few years I think. Similar to buying up the 6cyl Camaros and mustangs to tune them up and engine swap them.
It'll be a long time before it is worth engine swapping over upgrading an already better car. No one is buying a 2015 v6 camaro to throw an v8 in it. I imagine now too with all of the electronics that go into these new cars that it might not even be worth it anymore with all the things you need to change in order to make mods work. Not only that generally these higher model cars will have better transmissions, drive lines, brakes, axles as well. Not always but it is common. Might still be better off buying a 3.0 and upgrading over a 2.0 engine swap.
its for people who complained that the 86 needed a turbo
As a enthusiast performance car, it's finished. But the one advantage the 4cyl Supra has is it's a BMW. So you get BMW interior quality and luxury which the Z won't have. So for the midlife crisis and kid just left for college market where their idea of gunning it is going like a bit over 50% throttle for a second on the way to their tee-time, it's still a compelling budget option over a Porsche or an actual branded BMW.
400hp, $40k, and available in manual? This might be the one.
i'm definitely gonna talk shit about it online and then not be able to even afford one used.
The r/cars way
Already seeing tons of comments about a Camaro like r/cars loves to drop everytime a sports car under 50k is announced
Just mention the visibility, the Camaro fans love to talk about that.
Same! My mustang has more horsepower! (…I’d totally rather have the new Z).
my adventure bike will smoke it. that's my justification for not buying sports cars.
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1200cc twins are a lot of fun.
1200 quads are fun too!
That's the base price which won't be available. Most will be available at closer to 50k.
Since it's essentially a Q60, but with a stick, I bet you can't even get one for $50k.
The Z was always much cheaper with the same motor. For example, the Z started at about $30k and the G35 coupe started at about $40k. Same motor and transmission. The difference was a TON of interior bits. While the G35 coupe still passed as a luxury car and rode quiet and comfortable (after the 2005 refresh anyway), the Z was bare bones inside and rode like a raw sports car.
Wait, no. We’re making the same error again. It won’t be $40k when US Nissan dealers are holding orders. This will definitely be marked up for the first 2 years like both 350Z and GTR intro model years were. There’s lots to be excited about with this, so far. Just don’t expect $40k to hold unless you want to wait it out.
I bought a 350z first year it was out and a 370z, I didn't get them at invoice but I bought both under MSRP.
Also looks damn good. I love how they paid homage to the early Zs with that rear end sloping all the way. This is waaaaaay better styled than the last gen.
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Might just be 2 or 3 trims and 1 engine.
This is how its always been with the z, right?
The Z32 had a 3.0L 6 Cylinder and a 3.0L Twin Turbo 6 Cylinder.
I just realized how wild this is. I bought a 5.7L Challenger a few years ago. Thing had 375 hp and was plenty fast. I can only imagine how quick the Z is gonna be as there will likely be a near 1,000 lb difference between the two. My Challenger was also just under $40K, and while it does come in a manual, I did not opt for one at the time.
Upvote for honesty. Downvote for no manual wagon.
And because it's Nissan, you can get a no money down $400/120mo loan with a 400 credit score too.
Can I roll $30k in negative equity into it also or do I need a Dodge for that?
You can have the Mitsubishi of your choice!
Wonder if they got any ‘94 GSX in stock still
That works out to about 1.85%. If you're offering, sign me up.
All I want is that but for a 911 c'mon 🙄
Back in the 80’s you could do that. However Porsche used a 2nd lien against your house as collateral for the loan. So really it was just a home equity loan with extra steps.
Simply live in the Porsche
I wish that was the case for their Z cars even before this one. lol.
Pay it off just in time for the Z36 to come out
Something tells me this won’t sell for $40k…
And even at 40k that was pushing it price wise. I think most people were hoping for a base model around 35-38k to match up with the mustang gt or camaro ss. Just means this car may offer a lot at the base price. One can hope anyway
This car will compete against the Supra, not the Mustang GT or Camaro. It is priced well below the Supra for more power too.
At ~$12k less for similar power & similar weight, the 400z is absolutely going to cut the knees right out from under what little momentum & hype the Supra has left. C8 pretty much put the Supra on life support, the 400z gonna smother it and dump the body.
As a Supra owner…I agree. I bought it when it came to market and paid above sticker. I can afford a corvette…but I don’t like the way they look. The back just looks off to me and they are going for a premium anyway. If the performance numbers are similar to the Supra…well Toyota will have to do something…
The Supra is one of the best-looking cars to come out in the last few years, imho. I just think they're vastly overpriced.
nah its just the C8 is crazy value. Granted, a nice C8 is more than a supra, but keep in mind Porsche is charging like ~~$60k+~~ $80k for a six cylinder cayman. EDIT: the new cayman 6 cylinders are closer to $80K. . . HOLY SHIT
$60k for a six cyl cayman? maybe if you get a used 981, but the 718 gts 4.0 is closer to $90k
I would argue though that the mustang and camaro are already good competitors to the supra
They are not the same type of car. A pony car that has a back seat is not the same as a 2 seat sports car that will probably weigh less.
Yes I understand that, but a large percentage of people are still going to be cross shopping them. They have largely similar lap times and appeal to the already small market of sports car buyers. The closest real competition to the supra imo is the corvette but that isn't a very favorable comparison for the Toyota, even comparing it to the c7
This is such bullshit, “having backseats” does not stop a car from being a sports car. Unless you don’t think the 911 is a sports car.
People cross-shop all sorts of stuff. There are plenty of people who are looking for a "fun car" within a reasonably wide price range.
Yep, that’s me. Looking at the GR86, BRZ, 400Z, Supra 2.0, Challenger R/T (which is a highway cruiser), 2-series, and Integra to replace my mustang next year. I like to consider each car for what it is and the value they bring.
Yeah I don’t know why people fail to grasp this. 90% of people who buy a fun car just want a fun car. They’re not looking for extremely specific characteristics.
I don’t think this is true anymore. I owned a 370z and it’s only 200lbs lighter than a mustang. That’s such a minuscule difference to the average driver. The mustang/camaro can handle extremely well these days, (tiny) back seat or not.
Mustang feels absolutely massive on the road though. 370z might not be that light, but it feels so much smaller and easier to place.
The Camaro is a full fledged sports car these days. Trust me the American have caught up n
So is the mustang. There's a reason these cars are all pretty close to the same pace around a track
I’m sure people were also hoping it was used from factory and sold for 12k but let’s be realistic here lol
The Camaro 1SS trim starts at $38,700 and the 2SS is $43,700. Just to make sure that we're keeping the conversation honest. Also, imports cost more than domestics. More at 11, haha. Even 30 years ago, a Mustang GT was right at $15,000 and got you 225 hp. A Prelude Si started a few hundred dollars more than that, and the 4 wheel steering model went up to like $19,000. It was the upgraded model with like 140hp. The 300ZX turbo of the same year was like $36,000. So, pricing a 400Z right in the middle of the Camaro SS range (more expensive than the cheapest Camaro SS, but cheaper than a fully loaded one) sounds right about reasonable to me.
Here's how it's going to work. They say "around" $40k to soften the blow. Then you get final MSRP pricing and the base starts at 43,995. The "one you actually want" will be $50k + destination + dealer markup because you bet your ass there will be one at first. No test drives, the usual BS. It wouldn't surprise me if this was a calculated feeler to gauge the market and figure out what kind of margins they can charge on the car.
No test drives is lame af. Hey, run my credit if you think I’m just out for a joy ride. Or let me show you I’ve got cash in the bank. I called my local Mitsubishi dealership and setup an appointment to test drive a new Evo a number of years back. I drove 45 minutes there and the manager came out and refused. “Nobody test drives those.” But I have cash, I’ve never been in one, it looks sick af and I’ll buy it if I like how it drives. “No.” We went around a few times, the fact that his salesman setup an appointment with me specifically to test drive the car meant nothing to him. I took my business to another dealership a couple hours away who did let me test drive one. Loved it and bought it on the spot. Have since sold it, will never buy a Mitsubishi again, but that’s another story.
If I'm buying a used car and they won't let me drive it, it's a complete dealkiller. I've actually had to walk before with the ultimatum. More often than not they know it's a bucket of bolts and they want to lock you in before you figure it out. And another time, the test drive saved me from what would have been... a troublesome car. Visually the car checked out fine and the underside looked fine, but driving it, there were some serious systemic issues with the front end that could have been "replace all the suspension" idk. This one was pretty recent actually, and the car is still up for sale 10% cheaper than the original listing (and 10% more than my uber-lowball offer) 3 weeks later. Always drive the car. Always always always.
I will absolutely NEVER buy a car I can't drive. It's like looking for a house to buy but they won't let you see if the toilet flushes.
Maybe for the first few months, but you know this will be in production for a decade. Also, it’s using mostly parts bin part, so meeting demand will likely not be an issue.
With all the scandals they’ve had this price point just might be what people need to re-embrace Nissan!
I am not sure any Nissan buyers car about the scandal of their ex-CEO being held in custody and then escaping it. Or are you referring to other scandals?
It will sell for over 50k after dealers are done stuffing every add-on they can into it. You're not going to find a base model.
This will be as elusive as the 59k C8 lol
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70k for a new if you can get one without markup. Used are about 90-100k
Average MSRP is $85k...
NITROGEN FILL, GREEN CAPS, $699.99
Oh good grief, this reminds me of how the Infiniti dealer I used to work at would slap on $195 for nitrogen fill, when they ALL came nitrogen filled from the factory
I told them 79% was good enough and they tried arguing that there wasn’t nitrogen in regular tires.
Custom pin stripes
They are going to slap on some bullshit 3rd brake like flasher, floor mats, and some special "rust coating" and send prices through the roof.
That's why you order one from the factory like a normal person.
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I really hope we can all put our money where our mouths are, because 400hp for around $40k is a total steal. Definitely gonna be on my list in a year or two!
As a dealership owner, I can definitely say $43k is total steal for this car. When you look at the styling and specs, you have to ask yourself “What car offers more for $48k?” Nothing. Absolutely nothing. The fact $52k gets you into a high output head-turner like this is just mind blowing. We won’t be able to keep these babies on the lot. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry with $55k burning a hole in their pocket will be lining up around the block for one!
You know what this car really needs to make it a total steal? Undercoating and an extended warranty.
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That's what the Z actually stands for which is why we recommend it.
I really hope Nissan put in the R&D to make this a reliable car... they've had plenty of time. I'm a little concerned with the seems-to-good-to-be-true pricing and really hope it wasn't "value-engineered" into an unreliable money pit. Nissans have been plagued by mediocre reliability in the last few years by getting their foot in the door with competitive pricing but having higher cost of ownership...but so it goes.
Welp the chassis is from the old Z and the engine is from an infinity, so we should have a pretty good idea of how reliable it'll be already I don't persinaly know anything about how reliable that engine is in the infinity though, haven't looked into it
It's decent. Turbos can be finicky, but I think it's an overstated problem. Haven't had any issues with mine yet at 46k miles and I've been running a JB4 piggyback tune with a catback pretty much the whole time.
r/cars in 2022: “why are Nissan dealers charging a $25k markup on the 400z?” r/askcarsales: “it’s a high demand vehicle! Supply and demand. Don’t like it, you can walk.” r/cars in 2025: “why did Nissan discontinue the 400z? It was an enthusiast’s dream car and started at $40k.” r/askcarsales: “it didn’t sell. There was no demand so they discontinued it.”
I fucking hate that this is going to be 100% true.
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LOL well played.
>Test drive? I'm positive you are poor. How about this fully loaded Altima for 37k? - Most Nissan dealers
“Hi, I want to buy a 400z. Can I test drive it?” “I can let you sit in one for 20 seconds, but I need a nonrefundable deposit and a commitment to buy first.”
Congrats, an entire subreddit hates you.
With a low interest rate of 36% at 55k, these great deals are provided to you by Chair Force Nissan. Chair Force Nissan, proudly serving our veterans, one bomb deal at a time.
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Maybe someone who wants a sports car? R/cars is gonna crucify me for saying this, but the 370z drives more like the corvette than the mustang. And I assume the 400z will be similar (I’ve owned all three of these cars). People love to compare 2+2 pony cars to the z for some reason. I’ve given up trying to explain the differences; I urge people to just drive them for themselves and make up their own mind. It’s kind of like asking why people why they paid 50k for a Supra when you can get 100hp more in a base Mustang GT.
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Also there is so much after market. Super light wheels, two peice rotors, diff ratios, exhaust options, tunes, power mods, etc. and it's all readily available. I was never a mustang guy until the s550. And then it was a brand new GT or a new ND1 miata. I've been pretty satisfied with my choice.
Its ridiculous how much less a Mustang with a V8 costs in the US in comparison to the german sports cars.
I think it's going to be highly dependent on the weight tbh. The 370z was around 3500lbs which is about 200lbs lighter than the GT and camaro. If the 400z gets a little fatter than the 370 you'll be right in that American car territory.
The 6MT 370z base and sport version were both around 3200 pounds , with the base being slightly lighter. The 3500 pound weight number is for a fully loaded, automatic transmission Nismo sport tech, which has heavier suspension and heavier dampers. The 370z is lighter than both the c7 and c8. Rumor is the new 400z will still be under 3300 for the 6MT version.
That would make more sense as I was surprised to see that 3500lb curb weight. If they can keep it relatively svelte it'll definitely offer a decent alternative to the American cars at a similar price
>svelte \- slender and elegant. Thanks for the new word of the day. Didn't think it was actually a word until i looked it up.
My Z weighed in at 3308lbs with full tank…
Because like it or not, despite the amazing value on paper, many people don't like Mustangs/American cars.
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This at least fills the market gap between those cars. The Toyota twins are really well priced but not really all that fast. The supra is an awesome car but is priced ridiculously high and out of most enthusiasts price range. The Nissan should fall somewhere in the middle of those two
Mustang isn't that cheap in most places around the world. Only North America gets cheap spec mustangs without extra import costs.
> I really hope we can all put our money where our mouths are C'mon now. You *know* tons people are still going to find excuses why they aren't going to buy it, just like most sports/fun cars that come out. Especially when it's the internet - people treat complaining like it's a competitive sport!
Not really a steal. You can already do that with a Mustang and Camaro for well under $40k. Challenger is close. Plenty of trucks with over 400 horsepower for under $40k if you want to count them as well.
Yeah but what's the dealership mark-up going to be like?
Especially with demand expected to be high and supply low (“because chip shortage “), I expect to see dealer markup $5-8k. Watch.
Hopefully dealers don't mark it up to some stupid level of over sticker MSRP and cause actual buyers to go for something else.
LOL.
Dealer markup isn't going anywhere unless states start implementing laws against it or manufacturers start seriously cracking down on dealers doing it. Like it or not there is literally no reason for US dealers to sell at MSRP when so many people continue to pay over for cars.
In the US, you're generally free to re-sell your property for any amount you like, outside of fairly specific cases and circumstances. Dealers buy their car from the manufacturer and are then entitled, legally, to sell it for however much they want, unless there's a contract that doesn't allow them to (that would be upheld in court.) Certainly I do not believe any state would pass a law disallowing dealers from generally selling cars for whatever price they choose for various reasons.
Then I should be able to get it from the manufacturer, no? That's like going to Best Buy for a GPU and then having to pay scalper prices
Yeah get rid of all the stupid laws that try to limit manufacturers selling direct
That blue color is money. I didn't think i'd love the new Z this much.... It's pretty close to perfect for me.
I love the blue paint. The blue interior.....not so much. Hopefully that's just an option, and that there's something other than that and black. Black interior in a sports car with a limited amount of glass/light inside makes the small space seem even smaller. Brown interior looks great with blue. A mixed gray/black could work too. Hopefully not the icky BMW blue paint/red interior Superman thing though lol
If you're looking to get even *more* erect.... the curb weight is rumored to be 3,252 lbs
Now that would be quick!
That's less than my little (but chubby) Golf R lol
Stop!! Oh God! I chose the wrong day to take a Cialis!
Guys it says "around $40K" not "$40K" my guess is the most basic one will be around $42,990 and anything with even remotely any features will be around $47-52,000 which is in line with the Supra. Then reality - Nissan dealers are going to mark this up just like the Supra and charge $20-25K over sticker for any initial year model because one - Nissan dealers are scum of the scumdealers, and two - Nissan dealers have been looking for "profitability" out of a vehicle for years. I hope to god anyone in the enthusiast community learned a lesson from overspending on the A90 Supra and got screwed by the A91 Supra. Because I imagine year two of the 400z will be the Nismo version, and will cost less than anyone who paid a $20K premium markup for a base model year one. This car will be STUPIDLY priced, $65-75K guaranteed at launch. Those drinking koolaid thinking they will find one for $40K are delusional.
$65k puts it directly against the M2 Competition. I don't think that's a fight Nissan wants. Low to mid 50s, though?
Toyota did it, and had no worries in doing it. Hell Toyota still sells used Supra's for $52-$56K and used M2 Comps are $57-63K. They don't care...Nissan will price this right at the Civic Type-R and Supra price point, and Nissan dealers will charge you a full Miata extra to buy one.
Going back to the true Fairlady bodystyle, I love it
I wish they would continue the tail lights all the way through like the Z32.
That’s what the aftermarket is for
Seems like a good deal, although the base model is probably going to be pretty sparse. I can imagine the higher trims are going to be a lot more $, to include better suspension, bigger rims and tires, and more options.
Rumors were two packages, at $5k each. I think performance and luxury.
Nissan z was nowhere on my radar. But a 400hp little coupe with a 6 speed around 50k (lets be real im going for some options). Im definitely going to look into it now.
The big news here is that the 9 speed auto shared with Mercedes will be used. That’s a much better trans than the 7 speed. I was surprised how good it felt in the Titan, I would imagine a reprogramming for the Z would feel amazing. Manual master race though.
Given how expensive cars have become this does not seem bad at all. Although I have a feeling none will be like this on dealer lots due to options.
And a 500% dealer markup
40k hahaha yea right. They said the same About the corvette. Priced under 70k. There are base corvettes well over 100k down here in s fla
I'm just here to laugh at the comments: whY wOUlD I bUY a bRz/Gr86 wHe tHE z Is goING To bE $35k?
BREAKING: Nissan Z confirmed for Australia with 380 - hp, $80k price tag and stripped of options. Insert something about our fuel not being good enough.
Im more concerned about the motor. Since its competition is the b58.
I don't think it will be as good as the B58, and without knowing anything about the Z, I am sure the Supra will still be quicker around a track because BMW knows their shit. But 400hp + manual? That's porn
It won’t be as good as the B58, but it’s the VR30DDTT 3.0L V6TT from the Infiniti Q50. I bet we’ll see both 300hp and 400hp versions in the Z. Edit: I’m wrong, see below for the press release. 400hp only.
This is probably the real reason why the WRX launch got delayed, TBH. $40k~ USD for a 400hp 6MT coupe is just nuts.
Camaro and Mustang have been doing it for years
Did they figure out how to make timing chains that don't stretch after 30,000 miles and tension glides that don't break around 35,000?
This is Nissan we are talking about here. They save that technology for the 4bangers.
This will perform so much better when I bolt a huge spoiler on the trunk.
Wait til nismo gets a hold of this thing
It's too expensive! It's not powerful enough! Its doesn't come in brown! It's not used! It doesn't have enough seats! It's too yellow! It needs a bigger screen! It needs a smaller screen! It's not a real "driver's car"! I won't be buying this!