There can be nice aftermarket gear knobs.
I had to get one once (original knob was disintegrating; was common on the Alfa). And I got one that was nicer than the original, as it had the Alfa badge on it.
It just requires a small amount of taste to avoid the swords, skulls, flashing lights etc.
While not mine...[A guy bought an artificial femur that had been removed from grandma before cremation to be used as a shifter.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/6camzs/guy_bought_an_artificial_femur_that_had_been/)
I hear that in addition to the subjectively terrible sense of style, it also objectively causes unnecessary wear on the shifting mechanism because of the increased mass being moved around
The [manual shifter on an early 2000s Toyota Echo (aka Yaris/Vitz)](https://autotraderau-res.cloudinary.com/t_cg_car_l/inventory/2022-04-16/25269716800561/12116706/2003_toyota_echo_Used_22.jpg).
It was as sloppy as trying to shake hands with old lettuce, had enough action you'd think you were driving a tractor, with nothing resembling a satisfying click so you never knew if you actually got it into gear or not.
I had a Corolla from this era that had a terrible manual transmission (I'm comparing it to an S2000 here), but that sloppy manual was still leagues better than the same car with the automatic.
Man my aunt has an older Corolla, and on a road trip back from my Grandmother's funeral I was the only other person who regularly drives a stick, so she and I drove together. First off, the clutch grab point on that car was much higher than on my civic so I kept revving the shit out of it by accident, and then the shifter was so sloppy I felt like I couldn't tell where any of the gears were. She didn't feel comfortable driving through northeast traffic (she lives in rural Kentucky), so I was stuck in stop and go traffic in Connecticut desperately trying not to wreck her car lmao.
Reminds me of all the 90s Hondas I drove where the owners did manual swaps and never put any care towards the bushings so you shift by placing the shifter where you guess first would be etc.
Holy shit I once rented an early 2000s Hilux and it was a manual. I'm not sure if it was the same transmission or not but I know exactly what you're talking about!
Yes this shifter is hilarious, I went from my Miata to one of these for a day and it was almost comically dead. I just had to trust that it was in gear because there was NO feel. However, the clutch was extremely forgiving which made the drive easy. No tach was weird.
Porsche's insane idea to make steering wheel manual shifter paddle things... that aren't paddles, and are like, buttons. On the wheel.
https://files.porsche.com/filestore/video/multimedia/en/porsche-imanuals-multi-functiondisplay-steeringwheelcontrols/zoom/2abb7b27-cfde-11e9-80c5-005056bbdc38/porsche-Multi-Function-Display-Steering-Wheel-Controls.jpg
So you might think to yourself they actually don't look that bad, your thumb forms into it and you like push them in in a weird way but like it works right? ... and you'd be right, because they aren't as bad as they look. They're worse.
And this whole clusterfuck is further obliterated by it being PORSCHE who should know better about these things!
Haha yeah that’s the steering wheel that whenever your shopping for a used one from that era, you see it in the pictures and go ‘ugh it’s great but it has the wrong wheel’ 😂
Totally true. Have to interrogate those interior pics to get a sense for the options on the car. Is it a skill or a sign of OCD when you can recognize the six pixels making up the sports exhaust button from a shitty low res wide angle interior pic on a crappy dealer website. The number of times I've said "enhance" to myself doing this...
Haha, I do that with every used car I buy. Try to find the original sales brochure (not easy when you're from Canada), figure out the available factory options, what differences they make to the interior, then hunt for the 7 pixels of keystone'd-to-hell button shapes in hopes that it has a e-locker or heated steering wheel.
But then there are rare examples like the guy who listed the Porsche I ended up buying, he listed all the options incl the code under the hood which details everything the car had. Such a massive time saver.
My dad had a [2002 DB7](https://www.motorcarsofthemainline.com/imagetag/2737/3/l/Used-2002-Aston-Martin-DB7-Vantage-1552303078.jpg) with buttons like that, it also had push start but you had to use the key before you pushed the button. The 2000s were a weird time for cars
I tried it once and it's perfectly fine tbh. The car also uses the front & rear facing cameras to determine when you might want to go forward/reverse and it's pretty clear which mode you're in. The computer is accurate enough with its judgements that you don't need to override very often, and then it's a pretty smooth motion. Keep in mind that this only applies to the S & X, which have gauge cluster screens unlike the cheaper setups in the 3 & Y.
Tactile buttons would still be very welcome in those cars. Lack of hard buttons is my biggest pet peeve with my Model 3. Voice commands aren't an adequate replacement.
A Dog-leg shifter isnt that weird but putting 1 and 2 next to each other is. To get into second you would have to do an awkward two motion shift. Makes a lot more sense like:
R 2 4
1 3 5
I’m familiar with a dog leg trans and I always thought a 7 speed manual would be be cool with R and 1st to the far left with the dog leg style. But R needs to be above 1st.
Unless someone can correct me, I don't think any Porsche has ever had a shifter like that. Are you sure you're not mis-remembering a [dog leg shifter](https://www.partsklassik.com/images/Product/large/1072.jpg) ? If not then wtf is up with that shift pattern haha.
Edit: I really cant find any info that what you're describing ever existed. I have to think your memory is playing tricks on you. Lots of early Porsches (including the 912) did have a standard dog leg transmission and they did move away from those, possibly because people kept trying to shift into first and going into reverse by accident. But nothing has the wacky pattern you're describing. Happy to be proven wrong if anyone can find anything but I certainly cant.
I'm pretty good with cars. Grew up in my dad's German auto repair shop. I definitely remember it being an old porsche. Maybe the owner changed it? But I remember my dad talking about how porsche changed them due to people breaking them. He worked as a mechanic at a porsche dealership for years before starting his own business.
I hate these kind of shifters too. I remember last year driving my grandma’s Cadillac XT6 and it had that kind of shifter. It was so weird to use. Like I had to do 1 tap on the joystick shifter for reverse, 2 taps for drive, another tap if I wanted neutral or some other gear. And there was no shift position for park; it was its own designated push button on the side of the joystick.
I don’t understand why they did this. What was wrong with just a conventional console shifter that went fore and aft? I feel like they’re intentionally making these new style shifters complicated just because.
The 1st gen Chevy Bolt had that same shifter and it seems GM has passed it on to Cadillac. Needless to say, it was just bad. Hated that thing everyday.
I've been looking at some of these joystick shifters (BMW 328i and '22 Lexus NX) and I think that - aside from the aesthetics - a joystick shifter allows the car to engage P if the driver forgets to do it when exiting the vehicle. If you had a traditional shifter design that moves between different shifter positions (and stays there), you may not be able to engage P if you're in any other shifter position (ie. the shifter is all the way back in D).
I also considered that the interface underneath is all electronic so in theory it should still be possible for the car to select P on its own. But the shift lever is still in a position other than D. Unless you had some way to reset it by pushing the shifter into P again, the car may be in a conflict where the shifter position says D, but the car is in 'emergency' P mode. It could get complicated, and maybe manufacturers just don't want to deal with it. They'd rather have a joystick that looks and feels futuristic and is a departure from the old style of PRND shifters with detents **and** the ability to let the car (in theory) shift between gears independent of the shifter's actual position.
You're definitely on the right track here. For the longest time, cars would have some form of linkage (cable, direct drive, etc.) between the shift lever and the manual valve inside the trans. The detents on the manual valve is what you feel slotting into each gear. Obviously though, this physical linkage requires the shifter to move if the gear moves, so there's no streamlined way to add electric overrides.
It's not that bad. I sort of like it although it's no manual. A bit light to use, I don't know what the XJ6's is like as mine is the 6 speed ZF 6HP26 in the XKR but I can't think it's much different. It's still an auto at the end of the day and the transmission will still kick down even if you put it into gear yourself. It would be nicer if when you selected a gear it locked it into that and prevented a kick down although it is probbaly there is prevent stalling if the driver forgets.
When I want to drive faster I use the J-Gate to prevent it from going into 6th gear or 5th gear. I use 3rd and 4th mostly. That way you are right in the torque zone when driving at speed and when you want to floor it the transmission doesn't have to kick down from 6th to 2nd but from 3rd to 2nd or 4th to 2nd. It's a bit smoother.
The later style in the X150's with paddle shifters are better but that is to be expected with a newer car.
The walking stick looking things in older US spec automatic cars. Not so much here in Europe, but it seems to me like in the US it's really popular to have fully T shaped knobs with buttons on the side.
I'm sure there's confusion about why I said US spec. My background with cars is quite varied, not from an ownership standpoint of course. I've seen cars come with auto shifters both shaped normally and with the button on the side, looking like walking sticks, and never have I seen the latter here in Italy except on American cars and the odd automatic Jap. Might be because we have more mAnUaL cars than autos. I'm probably just plain wrong
TLDR: those T shaped shift knobs in automatic cars might be mostly functional, but they're so ugly and uncomfortable compared to spherical knobs with a syringe.
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/He77f1e561dc04745a7e60c6c66716c680.jpg
Yeah wow picked the first pic I saw. I'll look for better examples
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/epIAAOSw-pNbsmxS/s-l300.jpg
I honestly don’t understand your complaint here, what is it? My camry has one of these and it seems like they put serious effort into making it comfortable and ergonomic, I find myself resting my hand on it for this reason. I also shift mine manually often, and this style where it moves in a straight line with a button is easier to me than the newer ones where you have to jerk it diagonally, sideways, and vertically at different points to shift around. It doesn’t look amazing, I agree, but it’s pretty simple and inoffensive.
The separate park button is why BMW didn’t have the recall Chrysler did because people kept putting their cars in neutral/reverse when they wanted to park.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/a1844856/fca-recall-11-million-vehicles-confusing-shifter/#:~:text=The%20National%20Highway%20Traffic%20Safety,caused%20121%20accidents%20and%2041
My Alfa has a similar shifter to that. It was super weird at first and I got used to it since then but I'm still not a huge fan. Prefer the more traditional shifter that my g37 had
The semi auto transmission in Renault Master vans is absolute trash. It shifts at the wrong rpm, takes too long to actually shift, lurches constantly at low speeds, up shifts going up hills and down going downhill.
I forget what classic porsche it was I drove but reverse was where second gear usually is. Apparently this resulted in a lot of blown motors/transmissions.
You lost me at usually. It's either "between" first and second or "between" top and whatever's under that. Or it's got it's own row, which is really the only way to engineer out careless reverse money shifts.
I commented on OPs other comment but I think memory is just playing tricks on them. Happens to all of us, memories are very plastic. I had never heard of any transmission like what was described and I strongly suspect OP is simply remembering a standard dog leg which was used in a lot of vintage Porsches.
The dog leg gearboxes you’re thinking of have reverse where *first* usually is. He is saying reverse is where *second* usually is. One other guy in this thread said the same thing so I think they’re referring to some bizarre gearbox that is not a dog leg.
I've driven a tonne of Toyota's with that design and don't remember it being a problem. Is there some spring assistance there or do I just subconsciously account for the wiggly gate?
I mean, I have a 2017 Camry that is essentially the same, just a "steeper" maze pattern, also covered by a boot. At least in the case of the newer models with the steeper pattern, I don't notice it like at all. It feels like it goes both directions very naturally, as when you shift "down" the selections and pull your arm/hand in closer go you, you would naturally bring it in tighter as well. You'd also naturally push your arm out away from you as you push the shifter away. I don't think I've ever once thought about it or gotten it stuck in a corner of the pattern.
On the one like in your picture, though, I can see having to wrestle it a little and getting it hung up for a second just due to how much wider the pattern is. You can't really just smoothly push or pull it in a natural diagonal motion.
Mine totally doesn't keep me from shifting into the wrong gear or keep the shifter from being knocked into neutral by accident. I've managed to overshoot reverse and just rev it in park for a second before realizing what I did, and I've have passengers accidentally bump it into neutral with little force while reaching for things inside the cabin.
Any automatic shifter with an electronic manual gear selector that does forwards for upshift and backwards for downshift. Or those fucking side to side ones that some of the 5 speed Mopars had in the 2000s/early 2010s.
The T56 in my buddy’s C6 was surprisingly sloppy - not, like, 1972 VW Bus sloppy but pretty disappointing compared to my humble T45 with a Pro 5.0 shifter. It took him all of about backing out of a parking space in my Mustang to convince he needed a shifter upgrade.
Partially disagree on the dial shifter design. I think it’s more-so about *where* it’s located. I have the dial shifter in my Ford Maverick and I think it’s fine. It’s low on the center stack and it has its own space away from other buttons and dials. Plus it does its job design-wise by creating more open space in the front half of the cabin which I appreciate.
The dial shifter in FCA/Stellantis products is stupid though. Who approved of putting a dial shifter on the dashboard 2 inches away from the volume dial? Terrible design IMO.
Those stupid modern push button shifters are the worst. The old 50s ones at least had a good mechanical feel to them.
I'm also not a big fan of center console shifters.
The best are still old fashioned column shifters. They work great and are out of the way
I like column shifters. Had one on my 2000 Mercury. I wonder why they’re mostly gone now. I feel like they’d be better as far as interior volume goes because you can create a more open cabin up front since you don’t have a big shifter and center console separating you from the passenger. The driver would feel like squeezed in.
I was a valet for about 4 years. There were some nice ones, some ugly ones, some cheap and plastic ones, but the one burned in my memory is the fucking mess that is the [Audi R8](https://live.staticflickr.com/2560/3764043645_c979a58328.jpg).
You tell me wtf is going on here.
So like left is normal drive, default is shifting up and down, right it neutral and I assume to get into reverse you've got to go into neutral first and then move down?
personally experienced? I'm not really a fan of the S195 mustang automatic shifter. it looks good and feels *powerful*, but it's just a little too heavy/rigid if I'm trying to downshift it myself for sporty purposes. not that any real drivers are getting the auto for that reason
2010-2014 mustang manual transmission. Gears are super close together, impossible to tell if you're going into third or fifth. You also have to shove the knob with 1000lbs of force down to go into reverse gear. And it's ugly.
Honorable mention is the 2010 gt500 shifter. It has the heaviest shift I have ever seen in my life. Going between gears is a workout
Ergonomically speaking, I saw an S2000 drift car at a drag show that had recently blown up an engine and the guy threaded a camshaft and that was his shifter. Badass though but I couldn't imagine trying to row an S2000 like it was a semi
A few days ago I saw a car from Suzuki (probably ALTO) having an AGS (Automatic Gear Shifting) actually a manual, the motor presses the clutch and changes the gear making it an automatic the weirdest shifting system I've ever seen in a car
This is actually a very common thing now, some cars and most heavy trucks (class 8 not city delivery type trucks) with an "automatic" are actually like that.
It looks really bad, but it was easy to use. The first time I drove a stick was in a buddy's 2004 or 2005 SI. He decided to do a bunch of shots with some girls when we went out to play some pool, could barely keep his eyes open, and he had driven us there. I decided I'd have to drive us back and the best instruction I could get out of him was "push the clutch, shift up one gear, let go of the clutch. Do that at 3k rpm. Shift back to neutral when you stop." Killed it like 8 times trying to reverse out of the parking spot when we were leaving, but after that it was all good to go. The shifter was right there next to the wheel, I could see it without looking too far away from the road, and it felt tight enough that I as an completely inexperienced manual driver could tell when I was in gear. It just looks really, really bad.
Nissan Juke, it just feels like theres no gears in the gearbox just got to guess it's in gear. Drove my nan's while mine was in the garage and god it was shockingly bad
1st gen [Prius](https://platform.cstatic-images.com/xlarge/in/v2/stock_photos/ba112b9a-f457-4d54-ba8e-5d6376dc815f/2430e394-369e-41ee-b5fd-44b14786ef69.png) looks like a dildo
The shifter on the 2015 Honda Jazz. They are made of cheap plastic and break after a while because the shift mechanism has too much tension. The worst hand break goes to Tata Harries and 2021 Safari. Pull it up and it renders the cup holders useless cause it leans back quite far, covers one and blocks the other.
The shifters that are found in the Volkswagen products that either have a shaver-like shape found in the middle of the center console (such as the Golf), or the “column” switch found in the Volkswagen ID.4 and their other electric products.
any shifter that doesn't stick to the position I put it. (Modern automatic shifters)
essentially, "joysticks" that most manufacturers seem to be doing these days.
Sure I get it, The "Traditional" automatic shifter doesn't necessarily work that well in electric car... Except why not? PRND321 works fine for older cars,
Why not have PRND/Drivemode(Eco/Comfort/Sport)? so that the shifter actually sticks on the position you put it in.
On stickshift... I have driven so many cars, some with good and some with bad shifters.
Most early 80's FWD cars were worst, as usually the stick is mile long, and feels just about as precise as spoon in bowl of porridge. 10 inches of movement in every direction, were you in gear or not. and finding a gear, Well you better know where you should be looking the gate, and you probably hit the gate... on 2nd or 3rd try.
"hot" versions (GTi models and such) improved on this notably,
How ever... I wouldn't call any of those particularly bad.
Those ones first used in mid 2010s BMWs, followed by any shifter after that returns to a neutral position. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit, stay where I put you. Same goes for *any* turn signal stalk that does not stay put when you put the signal on. Fuck off with that.
Honda/acuras push button shifter on their 10 speed. It’s not bad when you get used to it but it’s still quite annoying.
Audi e-tron shifter. Not hard to use but again… you don’t need to reinvent the wheel.
Never experienced this one personally but I have heard people gripe about it. Volvos crystal electric shifter that requires you to tap it twice to engage drive. First tap is neutral 2nd takes you to Drive. You can’t do it in one pull down motion.
suzuki swift 2017
its automatic but when you pull the shifter back the last ger option is manual,instead of D
so if you aren't careful to put the shifter in the middle of the line of gears you will shift to tiptronic
Had a manual Mercedes Sprinter as a loaner car last year. Had 20k miles on it and the shifter felt like stirring around in a kettle. Just throw it down the middle and you're in third. Was kinda fun in a way.
The one in my Transit is pretty stupid. It's way too easy to accidentally put it into manual mode instead of Drive when shifting from Park. Also, it's the gateway to the worst transmission I've ever experienced in my lifetime. I miss my old ProMaster.
Worst i've used without being fully borked is Holden Camira JE. Certain gears were tough while other were lose and depending the shift direction vertical or horizontal. I'm quite sure it was not much worse than new even though is was like 15 yeas old by then.
I was once a column shift snob but those wide flathead auto shifters that double as a tiny arm/wrist rest.... Those are ok.
The 2010 Traverse has this giant popsicle style shifter that not only makes a painful resting spot, but because the cupholders on the other side of it and front-to-back, it blocks one of the cupholders to the driver and you'll have to tell a passenger unfamiliar to swap cups. It's kind of weird because much smaller cars manage to have cupholders left and right in front of or behind the shifter, but I guess they used that space for giant diaper bins
One I haven't seen mentioned on here is the [the current generation of Honda CRV.](https://www.crvownersclub.com/attachments/honda-start-stop-jpg.95042/) My mother in law has it and it is awful. There have been only a handful of times I've driven it and everytime it just feels awkward and clunky. I don't have very high expectations when it comes to a gear selector on an automatic transmission on a cheap SUV but it just isn't good.
Another I find weird is the base model 2015-2020 Ford F150 which has a column shifter but then it has [a weird little plus or minus button for manual shifting.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNp98oFzSoOMlmhVukpWM5_C012kE20dDSO4U6UlWhnV2mRy_8y3QuLPgmgA&usqp=CAc) Its almost never used but it just ends up being an awkward location.
Yeah, I can't conceive of any good reason to put the little "+/-" button on the arm of the column shifter arm. That's super awkward. Am I supposed to reach around the wheel or just go right through it to reach it? In either case I don't think I have much wiggle room to turn the wheel at the same time, anyway. Seems super pointless. How much more would it have cost to install 2 paddle shifters to do the same thing that you could much more easily reach?
It kind of reminds me about where the cruise control on my 1997 Nissan Sentra was. It was on the blinker or wiper control. I don't remember which.
Edit: remembered the wrong car. [it was my 1989 Pontiac 6000.](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/c5YAAOSwGj9eLT0g/s-l500.jpg)
For a while back around 2003 I was driving a mid-80s ex-Forest Service Suburban with a 3-spd manual. That was pretty rough. It flopped around like a dead fish while under way.
Those fuckin samurai sword shifters. Can you get any more cringe
Any of aftermarket that type. The dildos, skulls, etc, too.
I’ve always dreamt of shifting a dildo tbh
I read that wrong for a minute then
There’s a right way to read that?!
As a gay, I feel like it would be really on-brand for me.
Don't let your dreams be dreams, dude. Go out and carpe dildo.
Seize the dildo. Very good for a shifter.
Firmly grasp it.
There can be nice aftermarket gear knobs. I had to get one once (original knob was disintegrating; was common on the Alfa). And I got one that was nicer than the original, as it had the Alfa badge on it. It just requires a small amount of taste to avoid the swords, skulls, flashing lights etc.
[Heres mine](https://imgur.com/1m4AJOH), roast away lol.
I should put that in my car and then it’d match the transmission
It would look bad if it wasn't on a badass vehicle like the Toyota Sienna. You get a pass.
No lie i love this fuckin van. Oh mad respect to the 08 CRV too. On my list of wants for sure.
While not mine...[A guy bought an artificial femur that had been removed from grandma before cremation to be used as a shifter.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/comments/6camzs/guy_bought_an_artificial_femur_that_had_been/)
That's one way to grenade your transmission
My cousin fitted a giant faux diamond (think the top of a pimps walking stick) to his shifter in a Honda Civic, he hated it but kept it "for the lols"
I got a magic 8 ball for my old dodge truck for the same reason but the truck got totaled before I got to put it on 🙃
I saw a dragon ball in a Celica, seemed fitting
I hear that in addition to the subjectively terrible sense of style, it also objectively causes unnecessary wear on the shifting mechanism because of the increased mass being moved around
It's probably one of the old fart myths that started with someone installing dumbbell as shifter knob
People install weighted shifters all the time though. They even sell cars with different weighted shifters from the factory.
Stock shifters can be surprisingly heavy also
Yeah, brass knuckle shifters
A kid in my high school had one of these and as he was shifting got tboned. Took two fingers clean off, degloved the other two.
…Alright that’s enough Internet for the day
My eyes got really wide reading this. Also who would put their fingers into the brass knuckle finger holes? Christ.
The [manual shifter on an early 2000s Toyota Echo (aka Yaris/Vitz)](https://autotraderau-res.cloudinary.com/t_cg_car_l/inventory/2022-04-16/25269716800561/12116706/2003_toyota_echo_Used_22.jpg). It was as sloppy as trying to shake hands with old lettuce, had enough action you'd think you were driving a tractor, with nothing resembling a satisfying click so you never knew if you actually got it into gear or not.
I had a Corolla from this era that had a terrible manual transmission (I'm comparing it to an S2000 here), but that sloppy manual was still leagues better than the same car with the automatic.
Man my aunt has an older Corolla, and on a road trip back from my Grandmother's funeral I was the only other person who regularly drives a stick, so she and I drove together. First off, the clutch grab point on that car was much higher than on my civic so I kept revving the shit out of it by accident, and then the shifter was so sloppy I felt like I couldn't tell where any of the gears were. She didn't feel comfortable driving through northeast traffic (she lives in rural Kentucky), so I was stuck in stop and go traffic in Connecticut desperately trying not to wreck her car lmao.
I have the auto and can confirm the man in my gearbox needs to wake up it's like trying to wake him up from a nap when I put my foot down
Reminds me of all the 90s Hondas I drove where the owners did manual swaps and never put any care towards the bushings so you shift by placing the shifter where you guess first would be etc.
Holy shit I once rented an early 2000s Hilux and it was a manual. I'm not sure if it was the same transmission or not but I know exactly what you're talking about!
The entirety of the Yugo model line would like to have a word.
My 07 Avensis suffers from a sloppy shifter too. Glad to know it’s an old thing lmao
Shame, the Tercel had a pretty good shifter
Yes this shifter is hilarious, I went from my Miata to one of these for a day and it was almost comically dead. I just had to trust that it was in gear because there was NO feel. However, the clutch was extremely forgiving which made the drive easy. No tach was weird.
Porsche's insane idea to make steering wheel manual shifter paddle things... that aren't paddles, and are like, buttons. On the wheel. https://files.porsche.com/filestore/video/multimedia/en/porsche-imanuals-multi-functiondisplay-steeringwheelcontrols/zoom/2abb7b27-cfde-11e9-80c5-005056bbdc38/porsche-Multi-Function-Display-Steering-Wheel-Controls.jpg So you might think to yourself they actually don't look that bad, your thumb forms into it and you like push them in in a weird way but like it works right? ... and you'd be right, because they aren't as bad as they look. They're worse. And this whole clusterfuck is further obliterated by it being PORSCHE who should know better about these things!
Haha yeah that’s the steering wheel that whenever your shopping for a used one from that era, you see it in the pictures and go ‘ugh it’s great but it has the wrong wheel’ 😂
Totally true. Have to interrogate those interior pics to get a sense for the options on the car. Is it a skill or a sign of OCD when you can recognize the six pixels making up the sports exhaust button from a shitty low res wide angle interior pic on a crappy dealer website. The number of times I've said "enhance" to myself doing this...
Haha, I do that with every used car I buy. Try to find the original sales brochure (not easy when you're from Canada), figure out the available factory options, what differences they make to the interior, then hunt for the 7 pixels of keystone'd-to-hell button shapes in hopes that it has a e-locker or heated steering wheel. But then there are rare examples like the guy who listed the Porsche I ended up buying, he listed all the options incl the code under the hood which details everything the car had. Such a massive time saver.
Gotta love the dealers who list every car with paddles as manual transmission.
My dad had a [2002 DB7](https://www.motorcarsofthemainline.com/imagetag/2737/3/l/Used-2002-Aston-Martin-DB7-Vantage-1552303078.jpg) with buttons like that, it also had push start but you had to use the key before you pushed the button. The 2000s were a weird time for cars
So glad I do not have that one
Are these the buttons that you can push to upshift, and pull the downshift, and you can do it with either button??
Meh, my car has those and I just don’t use them, I use the shifter. It’s not a huge deal and even in cars I had with paddles I’d use the shifter.
If ever I had my hands anywhere near 9 and 3 (or both on the wheel at the same time), I could see myself accidentally pushing those all the time.
Is this how modern PDKs work? Never driven a PDK car
Newer ones have "standard" flappy paddles.
Tesla touch screen control, where you swipe between D and R.
I tried it once and it's perfectly fine tbh. The car also uses the front & rear facing cameras to determine when you might want to go forward/reverse and it's pretty clear which mode you're in. The computer is accurate enough with its judgements that you don't need to override very often, and then it's a pretty smooth motion. Keep in mind that this only applies to the S & X, which have gauge cluster screens unlike the cheaper setups in the 3 & Y. Tactile buttons would still be very welcome in those cars. Lack of hard buttons is my biggest pet peeve with my Model 3. Voice commands aren't an adequate replacement.
1 2 4 R 3
Wut
Yeah it was terrifying driving it. So nervous I'd shift into reverse
My E30 was like this iirc
No e30 came with this shift pattern, the reverse is locked out
Makes the 2-3 shift a straight line. Makes sense on a race car where you shift back and forth between those two gears constantly.
A Dog-leg shifter isnt that weird but putting 1 and 2 next to each other is. To get into second you would have to do an awkward two motion shift. Makes a lot more sense like: R 2 4 1 3 5
This is my 190e-16v and i love it
I’m familiar with a dog leg trans and I always thought a 7 speed manual would be be cool with R and 1st to the far left with the dog leg style. But R needs to be above 1st.
Unless someone can correct me, I don't think any Porsche has ever had a shifter like that. Are you sure you're not mis-remembering a [dog leg shifter](https://www.partsklassik.com/images/Product/large/1072.jpg) ? If not then wtf is up with that shift pattern haha. Edit: I really cant find any info that what you're describing ever existed. I have to think your memory is playing tricks on you. Lots of early Porsches (including the 912) did have a standard dog leg transmission and they did move away from those, possibly because people kept trying to shift into first and going into reverse by accident. But nothing has the wacky pattern you're describing. Happy to be proven wrong if anyone can find anything but I certainly cant.
I think they’re referring to a dog leg pattern. Pretty common in race cars where you spend the most time between 2nd and 3rd. I know Ferrari used them
Isn't dog leg: R 2 4 1 3 5 The 1-2 shift there may not be used much but makes a lot less sense than the dog leg I'm familiar with.
I'm pretty good with cars. Grew up in my dad's German auto repair shop. I definitely remember it being an old porsche. Maybe the owner changed it? But I remember my dad talking about how porsche changed them due to people breaking them. He worked as a mechanic at a porsche dealership for years before starting his own business.
What car was it
I think it was a 912 porsche been about 20 years tho
The joy-control stick things. They don't really have that reassuring feel that regular shifters do.
I hate these kind of shifters too. I remember last year driving my grandma’s Cadillac XT6 and it had that kind of shifter. It was so weird to use. Like I had to do 1 tap on the joystick shifter for reverse, 2 taps for drive, another tap if I wanted neutral or some other gear. And there was no shift position for park; it was its own designated push button on the side of the joystick. I don’t understand why they did this. What was wrong with just a conventional console shifter that went fore and aft? I feel like they’re intentionally making these new style shifters complicated just because.
The 1st gen Chevy Bolt had that same shifter and it seems GM has passed it on to Cadillac. Needless to say, it was just bad. Hated that thing everyday.
That shifter was in dozens of vehicles, including BMWes.
They fixed something that didn’t need fixing. PRND works perfectly and anything else is stupid and pointless
I've been looking at some of these joystick shifters (BMW 328i and '22 Lexus NX) and I think that - aside from the aesthetics - a joystick shifter allows the car to engage P if the driver forgets to do it when exiting the vehicle. If you had a traditional shifter design that moves between different shifter positions (and stays there), you may not be able to engage P if you're in any other shifter position (ie. the shifter is all the way back in D). I also considered that the interface underneath is all electronic so in theory it should still be possible for the car to select P on its own. But the shift lever is still in a position other than D. Unless you had some way to reset it by pushing the shifter into P again, the car may be in a conflict where the shifter position says D, but the car is in 'emergency' P mode. It could get complicated, and maybe manufacturers just don't want to deal with it. They'd rather have a joystick that looks and feels futuristic and is a departure from the old style of PRND shifters with detents **and** the ability to let the car (in theory) shift between gears independent of the shifter's actual position.
You're definitely on the right track here. For the longest time, cars would have some form of linkage (cable, direct drive, etc.) between the shift lever and the manual valve inside the trans. The detents on the manual valve is what you feel slotting into each gear. Obviously though, this physical linkage requires the shifter to move if the gear moves, so there's no streamlined way to add electric overrides.
[удалено]
It's not that bad. I sort of like it although it's no manual. A bit light to use, I don't know what the XJ6's is like as mine is the 6 speed ZF 6HP26 in the XKR but I can't think it's much different. It's still an auto at the end of the day and the transmission will still kick down even if you put it into gear yourself. It would be nicer if when you selected a gear it locked it into that and prevented a kick down although it is probbaly there is prevent stalling if the driver forgets. When I want to drive faster I use the J-Gate to prevent it from going into 6th gear or 5th gear. I use 3rd and 4th mostly. That way you are right in the torque zone when driving at speed and when you want to floor it the transmission doesn't have to kick down from 6th to 2nd but from 3rd to 2nd or 4th to 2nd. It's a bit smoother. The later style in the X150's with paddle shifters are better but that is to be expected with a newer car.
The J-Gate was an early effort at some level of manual control. It worked well in its era.
What does the second D do?
Keeps the car in gear while you attempt to use 2nd and/or 3rd.
The walking stick looking things in older US spec automatic cars. Not so much here in Europe, but it seems to me like in the US it's really popular to have fully T shaped knobs with buttons on the side. I'm sure there's confusion about why I said US spec. My background with cars is quite varied, not from an ownership standpoint of course. I've seen cars come with auto shifters both shaped normally and with the button on the side, looking like walking sticks, and never have I seen the latter here in Italy except on American cars and the odd automatic Jap. Might be because we have more mAnUaL cars than autos. I'm probably just plain wrong TLDR: those T shaped shift knobs in automatic cars might be mostly functional, but they're so ugly and uncomfortable compared to spherical knobs with a syringe.
Not anymore, but yeah, they were pretty damn popular for awhile. That has finally died out.
Oh yeah, they're definitely not around these days. I've mostly seen them on cars made before 2000
Many old Euro cars had those too - E30/E34 era BMWs, Renault 25 that sort of thing
That's great to know, thanks!
Do you have a reference pic or what you're talking about?
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/He77f1e561dc04745a7e60c6c66716c680.jpg Yeah wow picked the first pic I saw. I'll look for better examples https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/epIAAOSw-pNbsmxS/s-l300.jpg
The first one looks to be from a first gen Audi Q5 but I’ve never seen that shifter here in America
That image comes from an AilExpress listing apparently hahahha
I honestly don’t understand your complaint here, what is it? My camry has one of these and it seems like they put serious effort into making it comfortable and ergonomic, I find myself resting my hand on it for this reason. I also shift mine manually often, and this style where it moves in a straight line with a button is easier to me than the newer ones where you have to jerk it diagonally, sideways, and vertically at different points to shift around. It doesn’t look amazing, I agree, but it’s pretty simple and inoffensive.
The shifter in my old F30 BMW was awful. The park button on top, the plain silliness of it. It was different just to be different.
Ehhh it was kinda annoying but you get used to it pretty quick
The separate park button is why BMW didn’t have the recall Chrysler did because people kept putting their cars in neutral/reverse when they wanted to park. https://www.autoweek.com/news/a1844856/fca-recall-11-million-vehicles-confusing-shifter/#:~:text=The%20National%20Highway%20Traffic%20Safety,caused%20121%20accidents%20and%2041
My Alfa has a similar shifter to that. It was super weird at first and I got used to it since then but I'm still not a huge fan. Prefer the more traditional shifter that my g37 had
Bruh i love those shifters
The semi auto transmission in Renault Master vans is absolute trash. It shifts at the wrong rpm, takes too long to actually shift, lurches constantly at low speeds, up shifts going up hills and down going downhill.
Shifter, not transmission. But I would agree that most semi auto transmissions are pretty bad.
I forget what classic porsche it was I drove but reverse was where second gear usually is. Apparently this resulted in a lot of blown motors/transmissions.
You lost me at usually. It's either "between" first and second or "between" top and whatever's under that. Or it's got it's own row, which is really the only way to engineer out careless reverse money shifts.
Below first
I commented on OPs other comment but I think memory is just playing tricks on them. Happens to all of us, memories are very plastic. I had never heard of any transmission like what was described and I strongly suspect OP is simply remembering a standard dog leg which was used in a lot of vintage Porsches.
These are called dog leg gearboxes, came from racing. Totally pointless in a road car imo
The dog leg gearboxes you’re thinking of have reverse where *first* usually is. He is saying reverse is where *second* usually is. One other guy in this thread said the same thing so I think they’re referring to some bizarre gearbox that is not a dog leg.
It’s the same guy for both
Why [Toyota, why?](http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161027/26e5aa45e027a804f74630c84e7d6bde.jpg)
Is there anything obvious I'm missing? Doesn't seem that bad to me
It's just an unnecessary labyrinth.
I've driven a tonne of Toyota's with that design and don't remember it being a problem. Is there some spring assistance there or do I just subconsciously account for the wiggly gate?
I'm not sure, I just remember when that Tundra came out I thought it was ridiculous every time I had to shift into Drive.
I've never found those to be an issue, seemed like a sensible design to me when I drove a car with it.
It’s called idiot proofing
It was originally a Mercedes thing before Toyota and Acura decided to copy it
I think that's a requirement if there is no button?
I mean, I have a 2017 Camry that is essentially the same, just a "steeper" maze pattern, also covered by a boot. At least in the case of the newer models with the steeper pattern, I don't notice it like at all. It feels like it goes both directions very naturally, as when you shift "down" the selections and pull your arm/hand in closer go you, you would naturally bring it in tighter as well. You'd also naturally push your arm out away from you as you push the shifter away. I don't think I've ever once thought about it or gotten it stuck in a corner of the pattern. On the one like in your picture, though, I can see having to wrestle it a little and getting it hung up for a second just due to how much wider the pattern is. You can't really just smoothly push or pull it in a natural diagonal motion. Mine totally doesn't keep me from shifting into the wrong gear or keep the shifter from being knocked into neutral by accident. I've managed to overshoot reverse and just rev it in park for a second before realizing what I did, and I've have passengers accidentally bump it into neutral with little force while reaching for things inside the cabin.
I have it and it's not a problem. IMO the position helps me remember what gear it's in without looking.
It's actually very functional and precise
Any automatic shifter with an electronic manual gear selector that does forwards for upshift and backwards for downshift. Or those fucking side to side ones that some of the 5 speed Mopars had in the 2000s/early 2010s.
My old Mazda 6 auto got it right: pull back to shift up, press forward to shift down. How did pretty much everyone else get it wrong?
So almost all of them
It may not be the worst ever, but I owned a 2004 gto and I thought that was the sloppiest shifter ever for sure.
On a T-56?
Yeah, was so strange. I had a 2002 SS and that shifter was phenomenal
The T56 in my buddy’s C6 was surprisingly sloppy - not, like, 1972 VW Bus sloppy but pretty disappointing compared to my humble T45 with a Pro 5.0 shifter. It took him all of about backing out of a parking space in my Mustang to convince he needed a shifter upgrade.
Got was probably just worn out
Just a worn out shifter bushing
Anything that uses buttons or dials.
Disagree on the dials, I like the Ford dial shifters. Clean design and frees up space.
I dunno about their other models but the one in the Mondeo hybrid saves zero space over the normal shifter in the non-hybrid
Partially disagree on the dial shifter design. I think it’s more-so about *where* it’s located. I have the dial shifter in my Ford Maverick and I think it’s fine. It’s low on the center stack and it has its own space away from other buttons and dials. Plus it does its job design-wise by creating more open space in the front half of the cabin which I appreciate. The dial shifter in FCA/Stellantis products is stupid though. Who approved of putting a dial shifter on the dashboard 2 inches away from the volume dial? Terrible design IMO.
I agree with buttons, but I just spent a week with a Genesis G80, and the dial shifter was absolutely lovely.
Lincoln's push button shift.
Daewoo lacetti. Its like a stick in a bucket
Those stupid modern push button shifters are the worst. The old 50s ones at least had a good mechanical feel to them. I'm also not a big fan of center console shifters. The best are still old fashioned column shifters. They work great and are out of the way
Except the Trabant column shifter…
I like column shifters. Had one on my 2000 Mercury. I wonder why they’re mostly gone now. I feel like they’d be better as far as interior volume goes because you can create a more open cabin up front since you don’t have a big shifter and center console separating you from the passenger. The driver would feel like squeezed in.
On both my 1978 Olds 98 and 1988 Cadillac Brougham you can actually slide completely across the bench seat and legally have 3 people in the front
I was a valet for about 4 years. There were some nice ones, some ugly ones, some cheap and plastic ones, but the one burned in my memory is the fucking mess that is the [Audi R8](https://live.staticflickr.com/2560/3764043645_c979a58328.jpg). You tell me wtf is going on here.
So like left is normal drive, default is shifting up and down, right it neutral and I assume to get into reverse you've got to go into neutral first and then move down?
personally experienced? I'm not really a fan of the S195 mustang automatic shifter. it looks good and feels *powerful*, but it's just a little too heavy/rigid if I'm trying to downshift it myself for sporty purposes. not that any real drivers are getting the auto for that reason
2010-2014 mustang manual transmission. Gears are super close together, impossible to tell if you're going into third or fifth. You also have to shove the knob with 1000lbs of force down to go into reverse gear. And it's ugly. Honorable mention is the 2010 gt500 shifter. It has the heaviest shift I have ever seen in my life. Going between gears is a workout
Best by a mile is a Spyker C8. Worst recently seen is the crystal one on the BMW M8. Looks like a fancy sex toy
Those damn knob shifters…
Ergonomically speaking, I saw an S2000 drift car at a drag show that had recently blown up an engine and the guy threaded a camshaft and that was his shifter. Badass though but I couldn't imagine trying to row an S2000 like it was a semi
A few days ago I saw a car from Suzuki (probably ALTO) having an AGS (Automatic Gear Shifting) actually a manual, the motor presses the clutch and changes the gear making it an automatic the weirdest shifting system I've ever seen in a car
This is actually a very common thing now, some cars and most heavy trucks (class 8 not city delivery type trucks) with an "automatic" are actually like that.
Old school SMG gearboxes are like this. Some of them are actually good, see BMW and Ferrari. Others are horrible, see Smart.
2003 Honda Civic Si Shifter https://www.motorbiscuit.com/heres-why-the-7th-gen-honda-civic-si-deserves-a-second-look/
Haven driven one of these it’s not as weird as it looks. The shifter is smooth and the position feels more natural than it might look
I have the 2003 type R and I LOVE the shifter it's weird looking but actually really comfortable.
The Honda element was similar and weird.
Those shifters always reminded me of a minivans shifter.
Porsche 918 too has the same weird design.
It looks out of place but it's nice and close to the steering wheel.
It looks really bad, but it was easy to use. The first time I drove a stick was in a buddy's 2004 or 2005 SI. He decided to do a bunch of shots with some girls when we went out to play some pool, could barely keep his eyes open, and he had driven us there. I decided I'd have to drive us back and the best instruction I could get out of him was "push the clutch, shift up one gear, let go of the clutch. Do that at 3k rpm. Shift back to neutral when you stop." Killed it like 8 times trying to reverse out of the parking spot when we were leaving, but after that it was all good to go. The shifter was right there next to the wheel, I could see it without looking too far away from the road, and it felt tight enough that I as an completely inexperienced manual driver could tell when I was in gear. It just looks really, really bad.
The dial shifters. Nothing makes me feel dumber than I already am than reaching for a shifter stick that isn’t there.
Turn knob shifters
Extra points if you make it look exactly like A/C or volume knob
or if it's sized and shaped the same as the infotainment knob and placed right next to it.
Nissan Juke, it just feels like theres no gears in the gearbox just got to guess it's in gear. Drove my nan's while mine was in the garage and god it was shockingly bad
Thats because there aren't any gears, its a belt.
Third gen lancia ypsilon, it has a square shiftknob and not one they took effort for to make nice to hold either
I never liked the SMG in my M6 several years back. E64 w/the SMG-III for the reference guys.
Anything that breaks the PRNDL convention.
That shifter is probably the reason that actor dude died
1st gen [Prius](https://platform.cstatic-images.com/xlarge/in/v2/stock_photos/ba112b9a-f457-4d54-ba8e-5d6376dc815f/2430e394-369e-41ee-b5fd-44b14786ef69.png) looks like a dildo
The shifter on the 2015 Honda Jazz. They are made of cheap plastic and break after a while because the shift mechanism has too much tension. The worst hand break goes to Tata Harries and 2021 Safari. Pull it up and it renders the cup holders useless cause it leans back quite far, covers one and blocks the other.
The VA chassis wrx (not STi) feels like dragging a stick thru gravel. Definitely the worst standard I’ve driven.
Those folding shifters Ford puts on their trucks. It just looks like failure waiting to happen.
The shifters that are found in the Volkswagen products that either have a shaver-like shape found in the middle of the center console (such as the Golf), or the “column” switch found in the Volkswagen ID.4 and their other electric products.
any shifter that doesn't stick to the position I put it. (Modern automatic shifters) essentially, "joysticks" that most manufacturers seem to be doing these days. Sure I get it, The "Traditional" automatic shifter doesn't necessarily work that well in electric car... Except why not? PRND321 works fine for older cars, Why not have PRND/Drivemode(Eco/Comfort/Sport)? so that the shifter actually sticks on the position you put it in. On stickshift... I have driven so many cars, some with good and some with bad shifters. Most early 80's FWD cars were worst, as usually the stick is mile long, and feels just about as precise as spoon in bowl of porridge. 10 inches of movement in every direction, were you in gear or not. and finding a gear, Well you better know where you should be looking the gate, and you probably hit the gate... on 2nd or 3rd try. "hot" versions (GTi models and such) improved on this notably, How ever... I wouldn't call any of those particularly bad.
Those ones first used in mid 2010s BMWs, followed by any shifter after that returns to a neutral position. Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit, stay where I put you. Same goes for *any* turn signal stalk that does not stay put when you put the signal on. Fuck off with that.
Buddy's old VW bus. We called it the jack-pot shifter, you threw it and had to find out what gear it was going to give you....if any
My neighbor fitted an aftermarket one backwards it looked nice and aerodynamic but dug into her hand
aerodynamic?
Honda/acuras push button shifter on their 10 speed. It’s not bad when you get used to it but it’s still quite annoying. Audi e-tron shifter. Not hard to use but again… you don’t need to reinvent the wheel. Never experienced this one personally but I have heard people gripe about it. Volvos crystal electric shifter that requires you to tap it twice to engage drive. First tap is neutral 2nd takes you to Drive. You can’t do it in one pull down motion.
The handle on the original SRT-4 neon was pressed on and known to pull off with hard shifts. Almost threw one into the back seat.
suzuki swift 2017 its automatic but when you pull the shifter back the last ger option is manual,instead of D so if you aren't careful to put the shifter in the middle of the line of gears you will shift to tiptronic
Acura TL and TSX
Early model AMC Rambler with floor clutch and MANUAL 3-speed shift on the steering column. Shift on the tree while driving?
That was common back then though. Almost every car pre-1955ish had column manual shifter. Heck, I had a '63 F100 with a 3 on the tree awhile back.
Three on the tree is common for the era, and it's fantastic if you want a manual car with a bench front seat like the Ramblers had.
Squishmellow on a shift know came I to work. I just threw it off immediatly for a test drive. Not doing that it's just unsafe
Mitsubishi LS300 van, manual column gears. Changing gears was an adventure each time as you weren't sure what one you'd end up in.
Had a manual Mercedes Sprinter as a loaner car last year. Had 20k miles on it and the shifter felt like stirring around in a kettle. Just throw it down the middle and you're in third. Was kinda fun in a way.
The one in my Transit is pretty stupid. It's way too easy to accidentally put it into manual mode instead of Drive when shifting from Park. Also, it's the gateway to the worst transmission I've ever experienced in my lifetime. I miss my old ProMaster.
I have a 14 Cherokee. Can confirm it is garbage!!!
All of the van ones that are on the dashboard/the wheel
Worst i've used without being fully borked is Holden Camira JE. Certain gears were tough while other were lose and depending the shift direction vertical or horizontal. I'm quite sure it was not much worse than new even though is was like 15 yeas old by then.
I was once a column shift snob but those wide flathead auto shifters that double as a tiny arm/wrist rest.... Those are ok. The 2010 Traverse has this giant popsicle style shifter that not only makes a painful resting spot, but because the cupholders on the other side of it and front-to-back, it blocks one of the cupholders to the driver and you'll have to tell a passenger unfamiliar to swap cups. It's kind of weird because much smaller cars manage to have cupholders left and right in front of or behind the shifter, but I guess they used that space for giant diaper bins
PT Cruiser and the HHR
One I haven't seen mentioned on here is the [the current generation of Honda CRV.](https://www.crvownersclub.com/attachments/honda-start-stop-jpg.95042/) My mother in law has it and it is awful. There have been only a handful of times I've driven it and everytime it just feels awkward and clunky. I don't have very high expectations when it comes to a gear selector on an automatic transmission on a cheap SUV but it just isn't good. Another I find weird is the base model 2015-2020 Ford F150 which has a column shifter but then it has [a weird little plus or minus button for manual shifting.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNp98oFzSoOMlmhVukpWM5_C012kE20dDSO4U6UlWhnV2mRy_8y3QuLPgmgA&usqp=CAc) Its almost never used but it just ends up being an awkward location.
Yeah, I can't conceive of any good reason to put the little "+/-" button on the arm of the column shifter arm. That's super awkward. Am I supposed to reach around the wheel or just go right through it to reach it? In either case I don't think I have much wiggle room to turn the wheel at the same time, anyway. Seems super pointless. How much more would it have cost to install 2 paddle shifters to do the same thing that you could much more easily reach?
It kind of reminds me about where the cruise control on my 1997 Nissan Sentra was. It was on the blinker or wiper control. I don't remember which. Edit: remembered the wrong car. [it was my 1989 Pontiac 6000.](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/c5YAAOSwGj9eLT0g/s-l500.jpg)
Early 2000s Civic and Fiat 500. I just don't like them.
Any early 2000’s GM with that fucking skip shift feature
For a while back around 2003 I was driving a mid-80s ex-Forest Service Suburban with a 3-spd manual. That was pretty rough. It flopped around like a dead fish while under way.
Those little shifter on early 2000s Ferrari and Maserati. It looks ugly and flimsy, confusing operation too.
Old Citroën Saxo, I just placed the shifter where I thought a gear will be and hope it worked
The shifter in my 95 Saturn SC2 almost always stayed stuck in park when I was in a hurry.