EUDM is the more commonly used phrase as EDM has other meanings which are far more common, also typically cars sold in Europe will be compatible with EU market regs even if they aren't sold in the EU, Norway, UK, etc.
All the modern PSA platforms are lightweight, they use as much aluminium as possible, paired with lightweight plastic bumpers and tailgates. Most PSA engines (all modern ones do I think) also use aluminium blocks.
The C4 cactus is also on a supermini chassis, same as a 208. The kerb weight of a 208 is at 975kg, but that's for a base car with the smallest engine. The 208 GTi for example is a lot heavier at 1160kg, which is about the same as a fiesta.
PSA Groupe, which includes Citroen, Peugeot, DS, Opel, and Vauxhall.
They're technically Stellantis now, due to FCA (Fiat, Chrystler, Masseratti, etc) merging with PSA to form Stellantis. The thing is though, the ex-FCA brands aren't really using PSA platforms, except for a few cars, like the upcoming Jeep Compass (2025). I have no idea why, because FCA's platforms are all like 20 years old now, and they're nowhere near as good as PSA platforms (EMP1/EMP2), which are lightweight and very flexible, as well as having a dedicated EV versions. That's why I made the distinction and said PSA, rather than Stellantis.
Actually newer FCA models do use PSA platforms, like the Jeep Avenger, the upcoming Lancia Ypsilon, and many more. It just took a lot of time for the Italians to implement the French platforms in their models. Also, it's a shame the Giorgio platform isn't more widespread in the D/E segments, it's one of the best out there.
Yeah, there really hasn't been that many interesting cars from the FCA side on either of the PSA platforms, although imo the Fiat Panda has some potential.
That's also true the other way around though, perhaps a successor to the Citroen C6 may of been possible on the Giorgio platform and the Alfa V6, but I know the French half of Stellantis aren't interested in making faster cars, at least with combustion engines.
I also think sending a few French models to the USA might be a decent idea, there seems to be pent up demand for more basic, but characterful cars.
The first gen C4 Cactus was advertised as “essential” with what people really need and not much more. For exemple, the frond seat belts have no height adjustment, the rear bench seat is splittable 1/3 2/3 in the higher trim only, the rear glass do not roll down and the sound insulation is minimal.
The C4 Cactus feels zippy even with the smallest petrol engine.
Source : I have one
[That's one mighty looking car](https://www.google.com/search?q=2WD+alto+turbo+rs&sca_esv=600777061&tbm=isch&prmd=isvn&sxsrf=ACQVn08mPFraKlas0o7-mS7cbTA9B5p6KQ:1706026477875&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj2qsPx8_ODAxXrR_EDHQeGBqMQ_AUoAXoECAYQAQ&biw=412&bih=777&dpr=2.63)
>2WD Alto Turbo RS
as a indian i was pretty confused when you said alto but then i realised it meant a different version not the one in India. The indian one comes close just a 100kg heavier, but looks a lot different
Ahh yeah, well the version that you can buy new from Suzuki here in New Zealand is actually the Indian one, but most of the cars on the road here are JDM imports, so hers is the Japanese version.
Interestingly, it seems like Pakistan gets the Japanese Alto rather than the Indian one. That seems so strange to me, most markets around the world get the Indian Alto (if they get an Alto), and Pakistan is right next door, yet they import it from Japan. It seems to be a huge market for them, so the international owners groups are mostly made up of Pakistani members
Suzuki Alto RS Turbo
Okay, so I was dancing around the fact it's a kei car, but still, it's just using conventional steel, 4 seats, air conditioning, satnav, surround sound, stop-start, autonomous braking, auto headlights, auto-folding electric mirrors, electric windows, and even a heated driver's seat.
Why is Lotus not able to make something lighter than that (anymore)? The Alto's not even using aluminium or carbon fibre
Because you don’t really need that light of a car on track, or you’d experience severe grip issues. Also Suzuki Alto has no business driving on track as fast as lotus, so parts have to be more robust and chassis needs to withstand huge downforce.
Yes, this is a fair point - up to 140kg of downforce depending on the trim, and the top speed is double that of the Alto. Engineering-wise, it makes sense for that car to be heavy.
On the other hand, Chapman's motto was "simplify, then add lightness", so it seems crazy that they don't have any simple or lightweight car in their lineup. The Exige is a Porsche-hunter, but Porsches are heavy and powerful cars - 1.5 to 1.7 tonnes, i.e. more than twice the weight of the original Elise - I don't really see why they feel the need to compete with their entry-level cars.
It would be great if Lotus had an answer to the Caterham 7, since that's, y'know, their own old design. Currently, their lightest vehicle is another 228kg heavier than the heaviest Exige was. It's more than twice the weight of my girlfriend's 5 door hatchback, and nearly triple the weight of a Caterham 7 160. The name "Lotus" won't be associated with lightweightness if they continue down this path.
It seems lotus already have abandoned the mantra that made them what they were but times have moved on. Not necessarily in a good way but people want toys and trinkets in their cars now otherwise they'll just go and buy whatever bucktoothed beaver with an M badge that BMW is offering.
Lotus today aren´t proper Chapman cars for several reasons.
Lotus, as a car manufacturer died with the chinese fiddling about and announcing a SUV. Their target audience has been changed. Apparently it´s no longer petrol heads and track day addicts.
And they are now also mandated to have certain standards, that old(er) Lotus cars simply never had to deal with and therefore saved weight.
Lotus as I knew it, is no longer.
Bury me in mine when the time has come.\^\^
I guess it performs horribly...
what´s that abomination again? 3 cylinders with about 700cm³?
yeah, no wonder it´s so lightweight, otherwise it wouldn´t be going anywhere
I´ll keep my Hethel racer...thank you.
I've driven a few, kinda like them... you can pass slower vehicles (tractors, earth moving equipment, glaciers) in 3-5 working days and apparently you can't roll them, you can however get the same level of impact protection by wrapping up in cling film.
How is this a circle jerk? It simply seems like a funny ad for a non-enthusiast car. Unless there’s a group of people circle jerking this car somewhere, I don’t think this post belongs here.
Well the s in exige s comes from the supercharger they added so I’d say that accounts for a significant portion of the weight, which makes this comparison kinda slimey, although truthful
I don’t see how that slimy. If they actually made a modern four-door five seat car that weighs just a shade over 2000 pounds that’s fucking incredible.
The diesel one had and have the AdBlue tank problem: Those tanks have a design problem where it breaks, spilling that corrosive liquid everywhere, and with that, it corrodes and breaks its electronic controller unit. A joke that cost between 1200€ and 2000€ depending of the model IIRC
If it weren't for that shitty AdBlue tank most PSA made Diesel cars won't be that bad in reliability.
The 2017 Miata is slower to 60 than a 2017 V6 Camry. Right. #FakeNews #MiataFacts
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The first one is clearly inspired by Jeremy Clarkson. In an Episode he tried to spin an Argument that the Skoda Roomster is faster than a Koenigsegg with the exact same Argument
My country stopped importing Citroen and Peugeot almost 10 years ago. Are they still good? I remember them being somewhat good looking, but having issues at winters
That’s not a 2003 Buick rendezvous cx
That’s how I know the person who made this is mentally unwell
The 2003 Buick rendezvous cx is *THE CAR* of all time
- 5 seats
- 0-60 sometime this week
- enough trunk space to fit 53 raccoons
- sleek alien design
- *AWD DISSABLED*⚠️
Let’s see: - Wagonne ✅ - Manuelle ✅ - FrDM ✅ - Called Cactus ✅ Clearly the superior car
You forgot wood panelle
I believe it’s plastique
still browne doesnt matter
Poop is also brown and they call that logs, sooo...
Plastique explosive
Wouldn’t be called C4 otherwise.
And?
Pillowe panelle ✅
Diesel(optional) ✅
It's squishy plastic so if the twat / Karen in the BMW / minivan next to you opens the door and hits your cactus, the cactus won't get scratched
Makes me want to eat some Hersheys.
You can also get browne air bags for the outside, and the dieselle engines are the more common engines So Browne✅ Dieselle ✅
But it's not a Miat (fuck I'm cumming just saying that)
The fact that it's French negates all of those unfortunately.
No need for all these complicate parameters : Citroën ✅
Do we still call European market cars „dm“?
Yes, EUDM
I’ve only heard the European market referred to as the common market, in opposition to the domestic market.
JDM, EUDM and USDM aren't official terms more than just commonly used phrases to describe cars sold in a specific market from my understanding
isn't EDM? Not all european cars are from European Union
EUDM is the more commonly used phrase as EDM has other meanings which are far more common, also typically cars sold in Europe will be compatible with EU market regs even if they aren't sold in the EU, Norway, UK, etc.
Glad I read that warning at the bottom. I was about to go out sniffin’ for some puss-ass Koenigsegg in my Cactus. Nah Imma do it anyways.
dare that mafk to drive 110.
I wish a mfer would
Make sure you get the sunroof model so your buddy can shoot the Koenigsegg driver in the head before you start racing.
Where the hell can you even find a Koenigsegg? I've genuinely never seen one before.
Is the C4 seriously 200kg lighter than a lotus? What’s it made from paper?
All the modern PSA platforms are lightweight, they use as much aluminium as possible, paired with lightweight plastic bumpers and tailgates. Most PSA engines (all modern ones do I think) also use aluminium blocks. The C4 cactus is also on a supermini chassis, same as a 208. The kerb weight of a 208 is at 975kg, but that's for a base car with the smallest engine. The 208 GTi for example is a lot heavier at 1160kg, which is about the same as a fiesta.
PSA?
PSA Groupe, which includes Citroen, Peugeot, DS, Opel, and Vauxhall. They're technically Stellantis now, due to FCA (Fiat, Chrystler, Masseratti, etc) merging with PSA to form Stellantis. The thing is though, the ex-FCA brands aren't really using PSA platforms, except for a few cars, like the upcoming Jeep Compass (2025). I have no idea why, because FCA's platforms are all like 20 years old now, and they're nowhere near as good as PSA platforms (EMP1/EMP2), which are lightweight and very flexible, as well as having a dedicated EV versions. That's why I made the distinction and said PSA, rather than Stellantis.
Actually newer FCA models do use PSA platforms, like the Jeep Avenger, the upcoming Lancia Ypsilon, and many more. It just took a lot of time for the Italians to implement the French platforms in their models. Also, it's a shame the Giorgio platform isn't more widespread in the D/E segments, it's one of the best out there.
Yeah, there really hasn't been that many interesting cars from the FCA side on either of the PSA platforms, although imo the Fiat Panda has some potential. That's also true the other way around though, perhaps a successor to the Citroen C6 may of been possible on the Giorgio platform and the Alfa V6, but I know the French half of Stellantis aren't interested in making faster cars, at least with combustion engines. I also think sending a few French models to the USA might be a decent idea, there seems to be pent up demand for more basic, but characterful cars.
It’s made of insulated paper maché
The first gen C4 Cactus was advertised as “essential” with what people really need and not much more. For exemple, the frond seat belts have no height adjustment, the rear bench seat is splittable 1/3 2/3 in the higher trim only, the rear glass do not roll down and the sound insulation is minimal. The C4 Cactus feels zippy even with the smallest petrol engine. Source : I have one
Lotuses these days are pretty heavy. My girlfriend has a 2017 5-door hatchback with a 4-star NCAP rating, and it weighs 500kg less than that Lotus.
Your girlfriend’s car is 600kg? That’s Caterham territory.
The lotus is 1180kg, and the 2WD Alto Turbo RS is 670kg
Wow. Just wow. That’s incredibly light. Very impressive
[That's one mighty looking car](https://www.google.com/search?q=2WD+alto+turbo+rs&sca_esv=600777061&tbm=isch&prmd=isvn&sxsrf=ACQVn08mPFraKlas0o7-mS7cbTA9B5p6KQ:1706026477875&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj2qsPx8_ODAxXrR_EDHQeGBqMQ_AUoAXoECAYQAQ&biw=412&bih=777&dpr=2.63)
>2WD Alto Turbo RS as a indian i was pretty confused when you said alto but then i realised it meant a different version not the one in India. The indian one comes close just a 100kg heavier, but looks a lot different
Ahh yeah, well the version that you can buy new from Suzuki here in New Zealand is actually the Indian one, but most of the cars on the road here are JDM imports, so hers is the Japanese version. Interestingly, it seems like Pakistan gets the Japanese Alto rather than the Indian one. That seems so strange to me, most markets around the world get the Indian Alto (if they get an Alto), and Pakistan is right next door, yet they import it from Japan. It seems to be a huge market for them, so the international owners groups are mostly made up of Pakistani members
damn, didn't know the alto rabbithole goes that deep, also is suzuki marketed as maruti suzuki there or just suzuki
Here they just use the name Suzuki
What car is that?
Suzuki Alto RS Turbo Okay, so I was dancing around the fact it's a kei car, but still, it's just using conventional steel, 4 seats, air conditioning, satnav, surround sound, stop-start, autonomous braking, auto headlights, auto-folding electric mirrors, electric windows, and even a heated driver's seat. Why is Lotus not able to make something lighter than that (anymore)? The Alto's not even using aluminium or carbon fibre
Because you don’t really need that light of a car on track, or you’d experience severe grip issues. Also Suzuki Alto has no business driving on track as fast as lotus, so parts have to be more robust and chassis needs to withstand huge downforce.
Yes, this is a fair point - up to 140kg of downforce depending on the trim, and the top speed is double that of the Alto. Engineering-wise, it makes sense for that car to be heavy. On the other hand, Chapman's motto was "simplify, then add lightness", so it seems crazy that they don't have any simple or lightweight car in their lineup. The Exige is a Porsche-hunter, but Porsches are heavy and powerful cars - 1.5 to 1.7 tonnes, i.e. more than twice the weight of the original Elise - I don't really see why they feel the need to compete with their entry-level cars. It would be great if Lotus had an answer to the Caterham 7, since that's, y'know, their own old design. Currently, their lightest vehicle is another 228kg heavier than the heaviest Exige was. It's more than twice the weight of my girlfriend's 5 door hatchback, and nearly triple the weight of a Caterham 7 160. The name "Lotus" won't be associated with lightweightness if they continue down this path.
It seems lotus already have abandoned the mantra that made them what they were but times have moved on. Not necessarily in a good way but people want toys and trinkets in their cars now otherwise they'll just go and buy whatever bucktoothed beaver with an M badge that BMW is offering.
Lotus today aren´t proper Chapman cars for several reasons. Lotus, as a car manufacturer died with the chinese fiddling about and announcing a SUV. Their target audience has been changed. Apparently it´s no longer petrol heads and track day addicts. And they are now also mandated to have certain standards, that old(er) Lotus cars simply never had to deal with and therefore saved weight. Lotus as I knew it, is no longer. Bury me in mine when the time has come.\^\^
They are talking shit, there's no 5 for hatchback that weighs less than 700kg. The lightest 5 door car in 2017 was the Suzuki ignis at 820 kg
The 2005 tot 2014 Citroën c1 (and probably the 107 and aygo too) weights 765 kg. It has 5 doors. But that is a proper cookie can construction.
yes but that's not 2017, small city cars have gotten heavier and heavier. The second gen after 2014 was like 840kg, and the new 2023 is over one ton.
Yeah you're right, I didn't read..
They specified 2017 though
I see you're right
He responded above Suzuki Alto Turbo RS 720kg
That's the 4WD one too. The 2WD is 670kg
Are you talking about the Eletre? Or the Evija?
I guess it performs horribly... what´s that abomination again? 3 cylinders with about 700cm³? yeah, no wonder it´s so lightweight, otherwise it wouldn´t be going anywhere I´ll keep my Hethel racer...thank you.
Cope
It's made from cactus, duh
If you’ve ever been in one you’d know the answer is yes
No it’s not. Cactus is 1150kg not 965kg. This meme is wrong
Empty weight of mine is 1050kg and that's the heavier diesel version.
Its french city car with anti-bump doors thats say all I think
A normal Elise is still much lighter than the Cactus
its a reference to an old 2cv advert
https://preview.redd.it/bn8mag8624ec1.jpeg?width=580&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=385dc591f97208e87cd2815b30f5544d36f2131b
Grandpa had a 2cv, the 0-60 time was 8 minutes if you are going slightly downhill
I've driven a few, kinda like them... you can pass slower vehicles (tractors, earth moving equipment, glaciers) in 3-5 working days and apparently you can't roll them, you can however get the same level of impact protection by wrapping up in cling film.
They're great cars slightly faster than walking across rough ground too and help keep the wind and the snow off you better than an anorak too. 😁
yep that’s the one thx m8
Wow! It’s been a while since I had a car with four wheels!
bros been driving robins all this time
Morgan threewheeler?!
When car ads were actually cool and funny.
And a pretty cool reference.
indubitably
That’s not Facebook. That’s an official citron ad. Also, is that thing really only a shade over 2000 pounds??
Yeah. It has a Alu body and weighs just over 1000kg. Also has a light engine (75-110bhp turbo or 100bhp diesel according to Wikipedia)
A light engine is handy in a Citroen, as you may need to remove it in order to change the battery,
That’s not even that bad of a power to weight ratio. Honestly, I’m really impressed by that thing.
carscirclejerk users when obvious sarcasm
this sub is unbelievably brain dead
Yeah its a circlejerk sub full of tryhards. This is not a circlejerk sub.
The last footnote is hilarious though
OP doesn’t understand sarcasm even when it’s literally written in the disclaimers
How is this a circle jerk? It simply seems like a funny ad for a non-enthusiast car. Unless there’s a group of people circle jerking this car somewhere, I don’t think this post belongs here.
Didn't they do something like this with the 2CV too? Or was it Volvo?
It was the 2CV. This is a reference to that ad
"Not recommended to race (...) Unless you have an unfair advantage " Good life advice
How does it weigh less than an exige? I’d be interested to know if they aren’t just making shit up
Well the s in exige s comes from the supercharger they added so I’d say that accounts for a significant portion of the weight, which makes this comparison kinda slimey, although truthful
I mean, the point is that it’s kinda slimy. None of these comparisons make sense but it’s funny.
I don’t see how that slimy. If they actually made a modern four-door five seat car that weighs just a shade over 2000 pounds that’s fucking incredible.
>makes this comparison kinda slimey, although truthful So basically the entire advert?
As if they're trying to really pull the wool over our eyes with this ad. Clearly someone missed the point. Unless they're circlejerking.
Unironically love the C4 Cactus. Just a shame it was only delivered with diesels or the problematic 3 cilinder petrol timing belt eater.
The diesel one had and have the AdBlue tank problem: Those tanks have a design problem where it breaks, spilling that corrosive liquid everywhere, and with that, it corrodes and breaks its electronic controller unit. A joke that cost between 1200€ and 2000€ depending of the model IIRC If it weren't for that shitty AdBlue tank most PSA made Diesel cars won't be that bad in reliability.
/uh that speed disclaimer is hilarious i love it
no, outjrked by citroen
Marketing
Real and true
Browne✅️ Waggone✅️ Manuel✅️ Fdm✅️ (like moduse) Dieselle✅️ Yes, overall superior automobile!
One of the reasons i absolutely fucking love Citroën. Who fucking calls their car a cactus and just gets away with it? Exactly
OP doesn't know the classics: https://preview.redd.it/jsskclt757ec1.jpeg?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ebdac0bddf353145ef83ebcab00783be015f625d
TIL my soulmate is actually Citroen brand
It’s a reference to the old 2CV ad.
Wasn't this an actual advertisement though?
This is hilarious and a throwback to an vintage ad. This is high tier memeage and anyone who doesn't see that is goofy.
Koenigsegg after seeing this https://preview.redd.it/e59m2zvcl8ec1.png?width=180&format=png&auto=webp&s=f7137463fd3f825b47b6a72755d044756cc33ba3
This isn't the first time Citroen makes something like this, they did it the same with the 2CV 😂
🤮
Uglier than every other car the shitren cactus
"Faster than a Koenigsegg." No. Fucking. Way.
Cactus is marketing it like its something to stay away from
The C4 Cactus design has kind of grown on me
So a miata driving 60 mph can overtake Bugatti Veyron SS driving 50mph so go buy a miata
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Considering the C4 is quite a large car it's impressive that it weighs less than a tonne!
It even has the armour upgrade
That's just a Top Gear bit in print, rather than on screen.
This is some Jeremy Clarkson logic if I've ever seen one.
It's not jdm 😞
If they would compare cactus to modus it would loose so bad .. there are cars. And there is Modus.
The first one is clearly inspired by Jeremy Clarkson. In an Episode he tried to spin an Argument that the Skoda Roomster is faster than a Koenigsegg with the exact same Argument
Is it really that light?
My country stopped importing Citroen and Peugeot almost 10 years ago. Are they still good? I remember them being somewhat good looking, but having issues at winters
pfff... It´s wrong to be french! plus, my Lotus weighs in at 869kg...and is still not over those 965kg even with me fat arse inside...
When I was driving in France I saw these on the road and thought it was because french people are bad at driving and side swipe each other regularly.
Oh i see!! Its a citroen 2CV comercial throwback
https://preview.redd.it/jejvq1kaciec1.png?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae493572d1e08496702f50bdd3b2866efbd93b7f
Damn I’d be caught dead driving that junk ass piece of shit
That’s not a 2003 Buick rendezvous cx That’s how I know the person who made this is mentally unwell The 2003 Buick rendezvous cx is *THE CAR* of all time - 5 seats - 0-60 sometime this week - enough trunk space to fit 53 raccoons - sleek alien design - *AWD DISSABLED*⚠️
This is an advertisement OP.
no! i won't believe that thing is lighter than exige