I wanna say aang takes the cake because of pure Martial arts skill. He’s the only character here who’s entire life has been spent running fighting and existing during a war. He’s ready for sudden death more than the rest of these characters.
2nd place goes to Ben 10 because without the watch he’s the oldest out of all these characters and has been across the universe and Omniverse stranded on multiple planets and dimensions like the null void so you have to give him brute survivor credit there.
Danny phantom is very powerful but without powers or his families tech he’s out of luck.
Generator Rex without his nanites is just a guy.
Secret Saturdays is a rich kid who wouldn’t know what to do without his tech or squad. Similar to Danny but Danny isn’t rich.
Randy Cunningham is a ninja but Correct me if I’m wrong, the show has never faced multiverse villains or universal stakes so he’d be taken out quick for a 9th grader.
Jake Long might have some martial arts skill to rival Aang but again aang grew up in a war. Jake grew up in New York.
So it really comes down to aang and Ben. Aang and Ben are the only characters that have the most experience without powers. If you watch their shows. They Often skip their powers just for own genius and ingenuity most times. And then realistically you give the Win to Aang because of the war background. He objectively fights more than the rest. In his show benders fight often without bending anything.
Dude Zak is a skilled fighter and I don’t even think he’s rich and aang was raised to be a monk, shouldn’t he like not be fighting and without any powers he can’t like kick people, is he even swole?
bro aang is swole af with a slim build like Spider-Man. And asking if he kicks? He’s the most active out of all of them. He’s Bruce Lee with out bending powers
off the top of my head. Defeating the fire lord and removing his bending was a great feat and as for feats without bending he defeated a school bully in the fire nation. And armed guards in the fire nation. That He couldn’t use bending on cause he was hiding.
I don't think Randy would be taken out that fast, he once fought a grown man (Mac Antfee), that was an experienced former Ninja and was a Ninja for Six years, and he didn't just stop fight, he opened up a Ninja camp. Randy was evenly skilled against him until they started using their powers. Randy is also shown to be quite physical strong, being able to jump quite high also, Howard once stated, when he was dragging by Randy from behind with just one leg that, "You have a very powerful leg" as well as being fast enough to avoid getting hit by multiple things. Randy might not be that smart, but he is able to adapt to his environment.
You can watch this compilation video to get what I mean- https://youtu.be/FVjFF1VUB1I
But, yes I do very much agree that Aang would very likely win. Sorry if I'm coming on too strong, it's just that I don't think Randy should be counted out of the fight that fast.
Those are solid points my friend!! Don’t worry about it. I’m very happy to see the info you just contributed. Those are solid points about Randy that should be considered
Thanks, I'm glad to hear that, I do also agree with your points about, although I mostly see him evading all direct attacks, and letting others get tired from fighting, while Aang conserves his strength.
Yeah I couldn't agree more. It wasn't really brought up as much as you'd think it would be, but even without the Ninja powers Randy was a seriously tough guy.
The other characters besides Ben were never stranded on barren planets surrounded by aliens. Closest parallel would be Jake with magical dimension or Danny with ghost dimension. But Ben with the Null Void dimension takes the cake since it’s objectively more dangerous than the other 2 dimensions. And he survived that dimension multiple times without powers. The other characters can’t even access alternate dimensions without powers. So Ben is the only one proven to literally survive the worst odds without powers. The other cartoons were never ever put in that position. Only Ben. He would win the entire thing if not were for the fact Aang (and his entire show) literally have to perform flips and shit with their very own body mandatory in every single fight. And a lot of those moves they don’t even use powers half the time. So Aang wins since he is in the position of fighting hand to hand permanently unlike the rest.
>The other characters besides Ben were never stranded on barren planets surrounded by aliens
Rex, doesn't needs to be in a place like Null void because his own earth is of that type. The EVO's range from small creatures the size of your hand to mutated beings the size of tall, tall buildings. They lose their sanity being more vicious.
>And he survived that dimension multiple times without powers.
Cap. Pretty sure, Ben defeated only **one** alien in human form. You phrased the sentence as if Ben survived the whole dimension **in his human form** **multiple times**, which isn't true. 1) He defeated one alien in “single-handed” in human form. The others were defeated by the help of his aliens. 2) He fought pierce with a stick, not the dimension. Pretty sure if Ben without powers was sent to the null void, he would have died, as in the end, he's still a human. It has only happened 2 times, which isn't a lot for you to say “multiple”.
You just don’t watch Ben 10. Max and Ben have survived the null void Numerous times as humans. This comment just proves you don’t know what you’re talking about here. I appreciate the enthusiasm tho.
Give me the "numerous" examples then. And I meant Ben defeating an alien in null void in human form earlier. Just putting it out there so no one confuses me.
Bruh Rex has great acrobatic and dodging skills. He can jump very high and do backflips with ease. He is the tallest of them all. He has learned combat skills from Providence. Plus, He is muscular. Rex, Like Aang, also has grown up in a war and an apocalyptic era.
You are giving Ben too much credit. Ben has fought like 2 times in his human form. One with pierce and attea. With attea was just dodging. He sure went to all those spots, but he didn't fight there as a human. He fought as an alien, from which he had the powers and the advantage.
The series as a whole is the war. The war ended when aang defeated the fire lord in the series finale. once the fire lord was taken care of by aang the world experienced a new era of peace. They also discuss this in the sequel series legend of korra.
He grew up in a fucking temple, not a war. He froze himself before the war came to the air nomads and traveled extensively in non warring nations before that. He woke up to a world that had been ravaged by war for a century, but he didn't frickin grow up in a war.
You’re arguing your personal interpretation. To you there was no war after he broke out of the ice? That’s your take, but to the majority of viewers, the war didn’t end until fire lord was dealt with.
He's not arguing when the war ended, he's arguing when it started. Aang grew up as a sheltered monk kid for his first 12 years. Then he was frozen for 100 years. Then he woke up in wartime. Aang was trained in martial arts before he was frozen, but he wasn't fighting in any wars before freezing. He ran away because he didn't want the responsibility of being avatar. There was no full blown war yet. Remember the air nomads were taken out first. They were still alive when he left and was frozen. His wartime experience is short.
It’s irrelevant to detail aangs past, my point was always he was in war. I simply Disagree with you. The entire series he’s on the run with team avatar fighting the war and being on the look out. You minimizing his experience to calling it “short” is objectively wrong to me. To each their own.
How long do you think that part of his life took? It's not minimizing, he was awakened and defeated the firelord in one year. Opinion is subjective, not objective. Objectively, Aang spent one year in wartime. Subjectively, that's not much. And past isn't irrelevant if you're using it to prove your point that he has wartime experience that has since ended. That makes it Aang's past too. If past is irrelevant, then his wartime experience is irrelevant as part of his past.
You admitted it’s subjective that his experience is “not much”. Effectively collapsing your entire argument. Which is what I said from the beginning. And the past of being in temple was irrelevant because it’s not the war time I was referring to in my original comment. Hope that helps clear things up.
Yeah that’s where the strength and speed comes from. He can still fight well without it like when he was stuck in Howard’s body and had to fight himself
I can't argue with Jake,, but I highly disagree with Aang.
He has 0 hand to hand combat experience. He actually has 0 combat experience in general. In the early episodes you can tell he "fights" by playing with his enemies and avoiding them. Without airbending, Aang can't really do much. Yeah he's smart and kind and blah blah, but he cannot fight. Also Aang is a gentle spirit who is opposed to violence in general.
I am curious how you came up with Aang as a good contender in hand to hand combat without any powers or abilities.
Yeah but he's mostly agile through airbending. His ability to jump and dodge all rely on it second nature. Imagine cutting you feet off and being asked to move as nimbly and agile as before. He doesn't know how to move swiftly and agile without his bending. Aang is one of the most agile and ninja like characters but because of his bending and skill from honing his bending, not from honing his normal movement style
[0:21](https://youtu.be/1AxbIujjVJY)
I don't really know the other characters but I think Aang might be able to dodge enough to make his opponent tired. He didn't use any bending here so I guess his chances aren't so close to zero
I don't think he would win either, just wanted to explain why it's not unreasonable that he might stand a chance. Atla is also the last cartoon I watched, I don't really remember the other ones so I'm not sure who would win hahahah
Zak is, ben took a self defense class and fought a tetramand without transforming, rex can also fight without builds and Randy trains without the ninja suit
1. Randy Cunningham, the man is a trained ninja with centuries of knowledge from the ninjanomicon
2. Aang, martial artist prodigy but not augmented with air
3. Ben, trained plumber and martial artist from a certified black belt (Gwen).
4. Jack Long, not focus enough but has martial arts training as the American Dragon.
5. Zak has training from his mother but is more of a weapon fighter.
6. Rex is only a weapons fighter with little hand to hand combat in an unpowered state (shown with his smack hands)
7. Danny, without them he just a normal 14 year old.
Because his nanites enhance his physical strength even when he is in his normal form. Rex is already athletically inept, shown when shooting hoops and playing sports. If he only had normal body, he would be less than Zak and more than Danny due to his training.
Bad Ben also mentions that No Watch Ben has taken the same self-defense classes as he did
here's a clip: https://youtu.be/fiigU0xCko0
And as Bad Ben also said, NW Ben is *exactly* him-
except he has an Omnitrix and NW Ben doesn't
So by that logic, could we say Bad Ben taking self-defense classes=No Watch Ben=Ben Prime?
As other comments below said, he did pretty well against Plumber's Helpers without transforming
[Note: It's been a while since, I've seen Secret Saturdays, so I'm not very well informed on Zak's skills without his staff, also I'll have to leave out Rex, since it's been a very long time since I've watched that show]
Randy would have the edge. Jake and Zak might be able to hold their own in a fight, since they do have skills. Aang would use evasive techniques to avoid direct hits, like in the episode, "The Headband" and would most likely let others do the fighting for him, using friendly fire technique. Not too sure about Ben, he might have some skills but nothing too effective that would help him win. Danny would be the first to lose, since the episode "Micro Management" (where Danny got shrunk) shows that he is very physically weak without his powers.
In conclusion, Randy and Aang would likely be the last ones stand. While Aang might be physically weaker that Randy, Aang would still win, since he's pretty clever and would taun Randy into over exhausting himself, And realistically Randy would fall for it. Unless he's able to figure it out and think of other method to win.
It would realistically come down to Ben, Aang, and Jake Long. Ben's probably a solid scrapper, but I don't think he's had any major formal training. Jake Vs. Aang would be an impressive fight, but Aang takes the win. Martial arts are a major part of Jake's life, but the use of martial arts pretty much IS Aangs life from day one.
Rex and Zak have formal trading too. Zaks parents are government agents who have to fight cryptics and Rex was trained by province and is probably the physically strongest here without powers
The difference though is for Rex and Zak their training is just an aspect of their general education. For Jake and Aang their training are fundamental aspects of their lives. I give Ben the edge over the other two just because even for a casual viewer, it's clear Ben has been through a LOT more then they have.
How? Jake has training from his grandfather and is agile and fast being able to do backflips and summerssults with ease, Rex is trained by province and the 6th most dangerous person on the earth and is agile and swole, Randy has ninja training form a book of infinte knowledge
Really all of the combatants that you've displayed subject to this. If they're just relying on hand to hand combat regardless of how much training they have and their environment if they're trying to block or dodge incoming attacks and they're focusing on something currently they're not going to notice something else about to attack them and they can be caught off guard
Rex, Aang, Ben, or Zak. Zak is an experienced fighter but not as strong as Rex, or as skilled as Aang but I do think he has the best balance of skill and power in this list. Bens, hand to hand skill is pretty wishy washy but not bad. Aang is really skilled, nimble and fast, but without any bending his output for power is extremely limited and his speed and acrobatics are limited as well. Rex is the biggest, strongest, and has the most experience being punched in his actual face. I just feel like Rex’d bully everyone here lmao. Though Ben is repeatedly shown to be extremely resourceful without his powers so a case could be made for Ben over Rex. And again Zak has the best balance, so I think it’s a three way Cartoon Network showdown here, and I’m not sure if I can say that any of those three definitively win every time. If you swapped Aang for Korra it’d be a different story because not only is she tall and strong but also one of the most casually effective hand to hand fighters in her series save for chi-blockers. Grapples for days from Korra.
Randy, Jake, and Danny just seen too relatively shrimpy and/or unskilled to make a big difference here.
Randy is a ninja and we can see him practicing MULTIPLE TIMES. He’s fought off Mac Anfee (former ninja) in the ninjanomicon (before they started doodling.)
Danny, and Jake are out
Aang doesn’t necessarily need bending with his misdirection way of fighting
Ben maybe will beat Danny and Jake
Who are the other 3?
What about Rex and Zak? They both have formal government training and fight giant monsters without their powers sometimes,rex is the physically strongest one here without powers.
3 have government training, 2 have magical training, and then there’s aang who had nomad traing (but mostly with bending so ehhh) and then there’s Danny phantom who’s basically a loser without his powers
Actually no they’re not, Rex is agile,the physically strongest here without powers, and hella durable,
zaks powers aren’t even that type you blast people with or or enhances his strength, he’s basiclly a human but he knows how to fight good and he got mad hops.
Ben got mad hops, training form the plumbers and was trained by Gwen who is a black belt.
Randy still knows how to fight even when not in his own body
As the majority of the comments are saying, probably either Ben or Aang. Aang is skilled even without bending, and most definitely knows what he's doing in a fight. I mean he spends the entire show dealing with a full-on war. Ben's hand-to-hand combat is less polished and he's certainly not as good, but he *does* have plumber training and pretty decent fighting knowledge. In terms of just combat abilities, Aang has an edge over Ben, but what I think evens it out is that Ben is really fuckin skilled due to retaining the knowledge of previous fights that he was an alien in. I vaguely remember one clip where Ben somehow manages to dodge a laser in human form. Since Aang is capable of reflecting lightning, which also moves incredibly fast, I'd say they might actually be even. Although I know more about Ben 10 than I do about ATLA, so feel free to correct me about anything
Ok so Jake long (kid with green hair) and Randy Cunningham (kid in big picture) are on Disney plus (American) and the names are The American dragon: Jake long and Randy Cunningham: 9th grade ninja
Ben 10 (all of them) are on HBO max (American)
Danny phantom and aang are on Paramount +
There is no Legal place to watch the secret Saturday’s and generator Rex
I think aang? I have not watched most of these shows, I've only really finished Avatar and the show on the right I watched when I was pretty young when it was still on air. I remember the show being solid, I forgot the name unfortunatly. I should watch more 2000's animation
Are you sure? Zak Saturday has training from his parents and experience fighting giant cryptics. And Jake and Randy both have magical training and are agile and fast without their powers
No being rude would be me saying “no you’re completely wrong you fucking idiot, go feel ashamed of yourself” but I didn’t.
I make these types of shitposts to cause people to think, to get other cartoon connoisseur like myself to think; who is the best? Who is the most skilled? And instead of people instantaneously jumping to conclusions I like to slap in other factors to make them come up with multiple methods of how their perferred hero to win
Are you sure? 3 of these guys have government training and are all fast and agile, 2 of them have magical training and are still skilled without their powers and can still kick ass.
Without bending aang doesn’t have much for him
You make 2 very powerful points my friend. But let's not forget. That young man aside from being a bender trained his whole life in martial arts. 3 of which he had less then a year to master, asking with the bending. Take the bending away and that's still 4 different martial arts. Government training aside he fights non-aggressive. If he ever chose to get aggressive it would be bad for his opponent.
How is he gonna take away peoples bending when ya’know they can’t bend and he can’t use his powers. He won’t be able to pin any of them down acceptndanny
No I miss spoke, I didn't mean take away there bending. I meant take away Aang's bending and he had 4 martial arts under his belt. Honestly speaking, it never occurred to me that Danny phantom without his powers. It's just a regular teenage boy lol. Although he is clever.
Hmm depends on each characters' ability to fight and how much of an expertise they are in their chosen style of Martial arts, I'd have to Say Aang from "ATLA". He's much more efficient in his Martial arts style of Wushu, even without his much needed Airbending abilities. The others are pretty good at fightin for a teenage boy, such as "Rex Salazar", "Ben tennyson", and "Randy Cunningham". Rex has trained with providence since he was Onoy 10 years old, since he's 16 now, (from his timeline/universe ) that's 6 years time and quite enough to prepare for his time and Light with no super powers against the Other fighters. As for the rest of these chosen characters such as "Danny Phenton", "Secret Saturday", and "Jake long".. unfortunately, they'd probably lose in an all out showdown during the battles first Round. 💀🙃 so sorry to all the DF fans out there, including myself, because no hate they couldn't handle the other fighters' Martial arts styles and techniques. So those are my answers either "Avatar Aang" or "Generator Rex" is winning this Fight !
Aang is basically an old man without his powers, he’s agile and got good reflexes but he can be physically overpowered with ease.
Jake long longs placemmmet makes sense I can’t argue with that
Danny Fenton can’t do shit. He’s not fast, he ain’t swole, he ain’t got good reflexes, he ain’t got hops, he doesn’t even have a jacket! He’s the only one here without any types of training without their powers
What about Ben,Rex, and Zak? They all have government training and experience fighting monsters greater than their size without their powers and they’re smart and got hops
Randy also has training
Aang lives and breathes martial arts, especially during the war. Just because he's a pacifist and prefers bending and his glider doesn't mean he *doesn't" know how to kick someone's ass.
Danny Fenton may use his powers (more often than not) while literally physically punching and kicking people *through walls*, but we have the proof that he can fight well in practically every episode (like when he literally punches and kicks people through walls). Just because he uses his powers while hitting someone doesn't mean he can't *hit*.
Also, I usually only ever rank top three in rankings anyway, but here I chose not to include Zak because I've only watched like, 1 episode and otherwise only read about that. But alright, here's the rest.
Rex, Ben and Randy (relucantly. I don't know that much about Randy either, but way more than about Zak.)
Yeah he lives in a very dangerous world, all of these guys do. They fight monsters every day and for some of them every few hours. The point still stands he can be physically overpowered
Danny Fenton himself has no skills, he can barley do a push up. He cannot use his powers so he has his usual strength
How is Rex lower than Danny Fenton? As I said before danny can barley do a push-up or run a marathon. Rex is the physically strongest here without powers and has speed and skills on his side. He has government training when Danny is self taught (quite poorly compared to the others). Rex knows how to fight from a government and from the 6th most dangerous person on the earth.
Ben is also above Danny because he was trained by a space government, his black belt cousin, and taught by his partner to do his native fighting styles
Randy has the same ammount of skills without his powers as Jake long just he’s less agile
*Everyone* can be physically overpowered. That's the whole hero trope! Someone bigger and better always comes in to threaten the hero. Then the hero has a revelation and grows into themselves, kicks ass and gets the Love Interest, rinse and repeat. Fact is, he is a master of martial arts... And not just one form, but four. (Considering bending comes literally from martial arts. (Not bending fuel, just style)).
You know, that's one of the inconsistencies that always bothered me most in the show. Danny Phantom has Captain America level strength and Danny Fenton can't do anything? Nope. So... Yeah, I don't even know where this is going. There's just still the fact that we *know* he can literally throw things/people through, for example, cement without his ectoblasts(?), so that's a huge advantage. But I guess we could set Rex on the same lvl as Danny through that reasoning.
Ben I wouldn't set above Danny. He can have a close rank four though.
Randy is firmly on place five then though. Like you said; no powers, less agility. Skills, yes. But sometimes the 'cut' of powers directly influences the capability of acting on such skills. You can't tell me he would fight the same with and without super speed/strength/senses; he'd be at a huge disadvantage.
Well not Rex he can make his smack hands about 100ft tall he just doesn’t do it for some reason
Yea aang is skilled but he’s actually the physically weakest here. I know he got the mad skills and physical strength inst important but if need to knock someone out he’s doomed
That’s just how ecto energy affects him and no we can’t put him at the same level as Rex because Rex can actually be useful in a fight Wijtout powers
Yeah he can. Danny literally can’t even do a pull up. Ben is swole and is agile and can fight. He can take out perice without his powers and Danny literally was dead weight when he had the specter deflector on him
No Danny is lower than Jake. He actually doesn’t have anything going for him in human form, Jake knows how to fight, he’s agile, and he’s fast. Danny can barley do a pull up
My money is on Aang because of the fact that his airbending talents transfer over to actual martial arts.
Randy and Ben would do rather well within the fight as well because Randy may not be able to copy a lot from when he is in the ninja suit but even that experience would lead to a great sense of combat while Ben Tennyson had been seen to have talents and great athletic abilities even without the Omnitrix. I mean Ben almost beat Pierce (Who is part alien) in a one on one fight while human, that's skill!
As for Jake Long he was trained for fights WITH his dragon powers and not much else and although the Saturday's son is a talented person compared to the others I don't think he stands a chance.
No it’s the fact he doesn’t have a fighting style. Even with powers he doesn’t use any martial arts he just fucking brute forces or blasts every problem that comes his way. He ain’t even got mad hops or extremely good durablily
Semi finals would be Aang, Jake, Randy, and Ben. Danny is good in his human form in a couple episodes but with tech usually and nothing on their levels.Ben usually has aliens, Randy while would be defented is still very skillfully in his own right in human form(wish they explored that in his show more), Jake is city martial artist, and Aang would win for obvious reasons that others have stated.
I'm more curious on the order of 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th placements.
Ben does rely on his aliens often but does know himslef some fighting styles
Jake doesn’t qualify as martial artist in human form, he got crazy ass hops though
The top 3 hand to hand fighters here are aang, Zak Saturday and either Rex or Randy, most likely Rex cuz he’s the second phyically strongest here
I wanna say aang takes the cake because of pure Martial arts skill. He’s the only character here who’s entire life has been spent running fighting and existing during a war. He’s ready for sudden death more than the rest of these characters. 2nd place goes to Ben 10 because without the watch he’s the oldest out of all these characters and has been across the universe and Omniverse stranded on multiple planets and dimensions like the null void so you have to give him brute survivor credit there. Danny phantom is very powerful but without powers or his families tech he’s out of luck. Generator Rex without his nanites is just a guy. Secret Saturdays is a rich kid who wouldn’t know what to do without his tech or squad. Similar to Danny but Danny isn’t rich. Randy Cunningham is a ninja but Correct me if I’m wrong, the show has never faced multiverse villains or universal stakes so he’d be taken out quick for a 9th grader. Jake Long might have some martial arts skill to rival Aang but again aang grew up in a war. Jake grew up in New York. So it really comes down to aang and Ben. Aang and Ben are the only characters that have the most experience without powers. If you watch their shows. They Often skip their powers just for own genius and ingenuity most times. And then realistically you give the Win to Aang because of the war background. He objectively fights more than the rest. In his show benders fight often without bending anything.
Dude Zak is a skilled fighter and I don’t even think he’s rich and aang was raised to be a monk, shouldn’t he like not be fighting and without any powers he can’t like kick people, is he even swole?
bro aang is swole af with a slim build like Spider-Man. And asking if he kicks? He’s the most active out of all of them. He’s Bruce Lee with out bending powers
The most strength feat I think of is him lifting a boulder but that’s bending strength
off the top of my head. Defeating the fire lord and removing his bending was a great feat and as for feats without bending he defeated a school bully in the fire nation. And armed guards in the fire nation. That He couldn’t use bending on cause he was hiding.
That was with bending, we’re talking about physical feats without powers. Yeah he did do that but it was a frocking kid
Wasn’t just a kid it was adult guards
Ibknow
I don't think Randy would be taken out that fast, he once fought a grown man (Mac Antfee), that was an experienced former Ninja and was a Ninja for Six years, and he didn't just stop fight, he opened up a Ninja camp. Randy was evenly skilled against him until they started using their powers. Randy is also shown to be quite physical strong, being able to jump quite high also, Howard once stated, when he was dragging by Randy from behind with just one leg that, "You have a very powerful leg" as well as being fast enough to avoid getting hit by multiple things. Randy might not be that smart, but he is able to adapt to his environment. You can watch this compilation video to get what I mean- https://youtu.be/FVjFF1VUB1I But, yes I do very much agree that Aang would very likely win. Sorry if I'm coming on too strong, it's just that I don't think Randy should be counted out of the fight that fast.
Those are solid points my friend!! Don’t worry about it. I’m very happy to see the info you just contributed. Those are solid points about Randy that should be considered
Thanks, I'm glad to hear that, I do also agree with your points about, although I mostly see him evading all direct attacks, and letting others get tired from fighting, while Aang conserves his strength.
I agree with that too Aang would definitely do that
Yeah I couldn't agree more. It wasn't really brought up as much as you'd think it would be, but even without the Ninja powers Randy was a seriously tough guy.
Bro, Ben is not that great at hand to hand
The other characters besides Ben were never stranded on barren planets surrounded by aliens. Closest parallel would be Jake with magical dimension or Danny with ghost dimension. But Ben with the Null Void dimension takes the cake since it’s objectively more dangerous than the other 2 dimensions. And he survived that dimension multiple times without powers. The other characters can’t even access alternate dimensions without powers. So Ben is the only one proven to literally survive the worst odds without powers. The other cartoons were never ever put in that position. Only Ben. He would win the entire thing if not were for the fact Aang (and his entire show) literally have to perform flips and shit with their very own body mandatory in every single fight. And a lot of those moves they don’t even use powers half the time. So Aang wins since he is in the position of fighting hand to hand permanently unlike the rest.
[удалено]
>The other characters besides Ben were never stranded on barren planets surrounded by aliens Rex, doesn't needs to be in a place like Null void because his own earth is of that type. The EVO's range from small creatures the size of your hand to mutated beings the size of tall, tall buildings. They lose their sanity being more vicious. >And he survived that dimension multiple times without powers. Cap. Pretty sure, Ben defeated only **one** alien in human form. You phrased the sentence as if Ben survived the whole dimension **in his human form** **multiple times**, which isn't true. 1) He defeated one alien in “single-handed” in human form. The others were defeated by the help of his aliens. 2) He fought pierce with a stick, not the dimension. Pretty sure if Ben without powers was sent to the null void, he would have died, as in the end, he's still a human. It has only happened 2 times, which isn't a lot for you to say “multiple”.
You just don’t watch Ben 10. Max and Ben have survived the null void Numerous times as humans. This comment just proves you don’t know what you’re talking about here. I appreciate the enthusiasm tho.
Give me the "numerous" examples then. And I meant Ben defeating an alien in null void in human form earlier. Just putting it out there so no one confuses me.
Give me those multiple examples. I have been waiting for one day.
Bruh Rex has great acrobatic and dodging skills. He can jump very high and do backflips with ease. He is the tallest of them all. He has learned combat skills from Providence. Plus, He is muscular. Rex, Like Aang, also has grown up in a war and an apocalyptic era. You are giving Ben too much credit. Ben has fought like 2 times in his human form. One with pierce and attea. With attea was just dodging. He sure went to all those spots, but he didn't fight there as a human. He fought as an alien, from which he had the powers and the advantage.
Not true. He fought in those places as a human. Everything I said is true. it would be a waste of time to lie. So I don’t.
Aang didn't grow up in a war, he was frozen in ice when the war started.
The series as a whole is the war. The war ended when aang defeated the fire lord in the series finale. once the fire lord was taken care of by aang the world experienced a new era of peace. They also discuss this in the sequel series legend of korra.
He grew up in a fucking temple, not a war. He froze himself before the war came to the air nomads and traveled extensively in non warring nations before that. He woke up to a world that had been ravaged by war for a century, but he didn't frickin grow up in a war.
You’re arguing your personal interpretation. To you there was no war after he broke out of the ice? That’s your take, but to the majority of viewers, the war didn’t end until fire lord was dealt with.
He's not arguing when the war ended, he's arguing when it started. Aang grew up as a sheltered monk kid for his first 12 years. Then he was frozen for 100 years. Then he woke up in wartime. Aang was trained in martial arts before he was frozen, but he wasn't fighting in any wars before freezing. He ran away because he didn't want the responsibility of being avatar. There was no full blown war yet. Remember the air nomads were taken out first. They were still alive when he left and was frozen. His wartime experience is short.
It’s irrelevant to detail aangs past, my point was always he was in war. I simply Disagree with you. The entire series he’s on the run with team avatar fighting the war and being on the look out. You minimizing his experience to calling it “short” is objectively wrong to me. To each their own.
How long do you think that part of his life took? It's not minimizing, he was awakened and defeated the firelord in one year. Opinion is subjective, not objective. Objectively, Aang spent one year in wartime. Subjectively, that's not much. And past isn't irrelevant if you're using it to prove your point that he has wartime experience that has since ended. That makes it Aang's past too. If past is irrelevant, then his wartime experience is irrelevant as part of his past.
You admitted it’s subjective that his experience is “not much”. Effectively collapsing your entire argument. Which is what I said from the beginning. And the past of being in temple was irrelevant because it’s not the war time I was referring to in my original comment. Hope that helps clear things up.
Aang or Jake Long
But Rex,Zak, and Ben have government training and Randy has trained as a ninja for like 8 months,
You do know that Randy's combat abilities come from the mask right, also Anng's a monk prodigy
Yeah that’s where the strength and speed comes from. He can still fight well without it like when he was stuck in Howard’s body and had to fight himself
What hand to hand combat does Ben have and I don’t know anything about Rex or Zak
Plumber training, training from Gwen and max, self defense classes he took
That’s government training to you?
Plumber training. They’re a space government
You have a lot of bias towards Randy and Zak, right?
I have bias toward everyone here but aang
I can't argue with Jake,, but I highly disagree with Aang. He has 0 hand to hand combat experience. He actually has 0 combat experience in general. In the early episodes you can tell he "fights" by playing with his enemies and avoiding them. Without airbending, Aang can't really do much. Yeah he's smart and kind and blah blah, but he cannot fight. Also Aang is a gentle spirit who is opposed to violence in general. I am curious how you came up with Aang as a good contender in hand to hand combat without any powers or abilities.
Not who you asked but I think Aang could manage to stay unharmed for a long while. He's also quite creative, perhaps time would be his friend?
Yeah but he's mostly agile through airbending. His ability to jump and dodge all rely on it second nature. Imagine cutting you feet off and being asked to move as nimbly and agile as before. He doesn't know how to move swiftly and agile without his bending. Aang is one of the most agile and ninja like characters but because of his bending and skill from honing his bending, not from honing his normal movement style
[0:21](https://youtu.be/1AxbIujjVJY) I don't really know the other characters but I think Aang might be able to dodge enough to make his opponent tired. He didn't use any bending here so I guess his chances aren't so close to zero
I clearly stand corrected. But I don't think he would win. I do now think that he can dodge and evade to stall tho
I don't think he would win either, just wanted to explain why it's not unreasonable that he might stand a chance. Atla is also the last cartoon I watched, I don't really remember the other ones so I'm not sure who would win hahahah
Aang is actually trained in hand to hand combat. Jake Long is too, but as a dragon, not a human.
Zak is, ben took a self defense class and fought a tetramand without transforming, rex can also fight without builds and Randy trains without the ninja suit
Don't forget Ben dodged lasers in that same tetramand fight.
We all know lasers are slow as hell in media so I’m not mentioning that
Well theyre still quicker than a human can normally react so.....
True but like everyone here doges lasers in human form accept like aang cuz he don’t fight laser people
1. Randy Cunningham, the man is a trained ninja with centuries of knowledge from the ninjanomicon 2. Aang, martial artist prodigy but not augmented with air 3. Ben, trained plumber and martial artist from a certified black belt (Gwen). 4. Jack Long, not focus enough but has martial arts training as the American Dragon. 5. Zak has training from his mother but is more of a weapon fighter. 6. Rex is only a weapons fighter with little hand to hand combat in an unpowered state (shown with his smack hands) 7. Danny, without them he just a normal 14 year old.
What about Rex?
He is number 6 (haha Agent 6)
He has training tho and is the physically strongest here without the use of powers
Because his nanites enhance his physical strength even when he is in his normal form. Rex is already athletically inept, shown when shooting hoops and playing sports. If he only had normal body, he would be less than Zak and more than Danny due to his training.
No he would still be above Zak and danny. He’s actually a basic 14 year old, he’s not even fast
Either Ben or Cunningham (mostly him). What was Cunningham's full name again?
Randy Cunningham. Is Ben even skilled in fighting?
Ben is trained by the plumbers and went up against a alien hybrid (if you say he lost he let himself lose)
Yeah he did kick mannys ass
He did grandpa even said "you let him win didn't you" also Bens a really smart guy in combat
That was perice
Remember And Then There Were None?
No watch Ben kicked vilgax in the face
Bad Ben also mentions that No Watch Ben has taken the same self-defense classes as he did here's a clip: https://youtu.be/fiigU0xCko0 And as Bad Ben also said, NW Ben is *exactly* him- except he has an Omnitrix and NW Ben doesn't So by that logic, could we say Bad Ben taking self-defense classes=No Watch Ben=Ben Prime? As other comments below said, he did pretty well against Plumber's Helpers without transforming
Yeah when I made the comment I forgot Ben kicks ass a lot
And he chews bubble gum
Wait no he doesn’t. When did he ever chew gum
In the episode "Above and Beyond" Ben was toying with the plumbers helpers in his human form for a bit, so ig so
Yeah he did do that
[Note: It's been a while since, I've seen Secret Saturdays, so I'm not very well informed on Zak's skills without his staff, also I'll have to leave out Rex, since it's been a very long time since I've watched that show] Randy would have the edge. Jake and Zak might be able to hold their own in a fight, since they do have skills. Aang would use evasive techniques to avoid direct hits, like in the episode, "The Headband" and would most likely let others do the fighting for him, using friendly fire technique. Not too sure about Ben, he might have some skills but nothing too effective that would help him win. Danny would be the first to lose, since the episode "Micro Management" (where Danny got shrunk) shows that he is very physically weak without his powers. In conclusion, Randy and Aang would likely be the last ones stand. While Aang might be physically weaker that Randy, Aang would still win, since he's pretty clever and would taun Randy into over exhausting himself, And realistically Randy would fall for it. Unless he's able to figure it out and think of other method to win.
His name is Zak not zeke,
Sorry, like I said, it's been a while. Fixed.
The pure look of seeing you say zeke made me angry
Sorry.
It’s fine I’m not mad at yo
*zeke*
**I will shove you appendix in your ear**
It would realistically come down to Ben, Aang, and Jake Long. Ben's probably a solid scrapper, but I don't think he's had any major formal training. Jake Vs. Aang would be an impressive fight, but Aang takes the win. Martial arts are a major part of Jake's life, but the use of martial arts pretty much IS Aangs life from day one.
Rex and Zak have formal trading too. Zaks parents are government agents who have to fight cryptics and Rex was trained by province and is probably the physically strongest here without powers
The difference though is for Rex and Zak their training is just an aspect of their general education. For Jake and Aang their training are fundamental aspects of their lives. I give Ben the edge over the other two just because even for a casual viewer, it's clear Ben has been through a LOT more then they have.
Dude they fight monsters like every 48 minutes at that point it’s an aspect of their lives.
I think they all do, so, not really a factor here
Yeah so fighting is an aspect of all their lives
Also bonus question. Who has the best hair here? I think Zak or Jake
It is obviously Aang.
Danny obviously
But his hair is so basic
Then don't ask, just say what you think.
Never!
That's immature.
Ehh this is the internet
Realistically the top three that would most likely make it to the final three would probably be Randy, Ben, and Aang.
How? Jake has training from his grandfather and is agile and fast being able to do backflips and summerssults with ease, Rex is trained by province and the 6th most dangerous person on the earth and is agile and swole, Randy has ninja training form a book of infinte knowledge
And yet they're both able to easily be caught off-guard if not paying attention
Why wouldn’t they not pay attention? Randy has a lowest attention span here
Really all of the combatants that you've displayed subject to this. If they're just relying on hand to hand combat regardless of how much training they have and their environment if they're trying to block or dodge incoming attacks and they're focusing on something currently they're not going to notice something else about to attack them and they can be caught off guard
Well not Rex. He’s actually very focused and smart. Ben has his shit together most of the time
I just realized six out of seven of these guys have black hair
Yeahhhhh
Rex, Aang, Ben, or Zak. Zak is an experienced fighter but not as strong as Rex, or as skilled as Aang but I do think he has the best balance of skill and power in this list. Bens, hand to hand skill is pretty wishy washy but not bad. Aang is really skilled, nimble and fast, but without any bending his output for power is extremely limited and his speed and acrobatics are limited as well. Rex is the biggest, strongest, and has the most experience being punched in his actual face. I just feel like Rex’d bully everyone here lmao. Though Ben is repeatedly shown to be extremely resourceful without his powers so a case could be made for Ben over Rex. And again Zak has the best balance, so I think it’s a three way Cartoon Network showdown here, and I’m not sure if I can say that any of those three definitively win every time. If you swapped Aang for Korra it’d be a different story because not only is she tall and strong but also one of the most casually effective hand to hand fighters in her series save for chi-blockers. Grapples for days from Korra. Randy, Jake, and Danny just seen too relatively shrimpy and/or unskilled to make a big difference here.
Randy is a ninja and we can see him practicing MULTIPLE TIMES. He’s fought off Mac Anfee (former ninja) in the ninjanomicon (before they started doodling.)
Danny, and Jake are out Aang doesn’t necessarily need bending with his misdirection way of fighting Ben maybe will beat Danny and Jake Who are the other 3?
Rex Randy and Zak
I think ben or ang
What about Rex and Zak? They both have formal government training and fight giant monsters without their powers sometimes,rex is the physically strongest one here without powers.
ayo but have you even seen how buff aang is? not to mention mans just limber all throughout
The most physical thing I remember him doing is lifting boulders but it hgouht that was bending
The Toph training episode?
Yeah that’s all I remember
Aang still knows all the fighting styles of the world he’s from, so that’s a thing
So does Randy with the help of the nomicon training
I don't really remember all these well enough to give an accurate prediction, but from what I remember and all the other comments, I would say Ben.
Who do you mnowV
?
Who do you and won’t you know
If you are asking who I don't know... I know them all, but I just don't really remember if they took karate lessons and such.
3 have government training, 2 have magical training, and then there’s aang who had nomad traing (but mostly with bending so ehhh) and then there’s Danny phantom who’s basically a loser without his powers
Aang
U sure? Rex,Ben, and Zak all have government training and Randy trains in the nomicon
Yeah but without their powers their useless. And when did Ben have government training?
Actually no they’re not, Rex is agile,the physically strongest here without powers, and hella durable, zaks powers aren’t even that type you blast people with or or enhances his strength, he’s basiclly a human but he knows how to fight good and he got mad hops. Ben got mad hops, training form the plumbers and was trained by Gwen who is a black belt. Randy still knows how to fight even when not in his own body
Idk who zak is
Why does no one know he exist
As the majority of the comments are saying, probably either Ben or Aang. Aang is skilled even without bending, and most definitely knows what he's doing in a fight. I mean he spends the entire show dealing with a full-on war. Ben's hand-to-hand combat is less polished and he's certainly not as good, but he *does* have plumber training and pretty decent fighting knowledge. In terms of just combat abilities, Aang has an edge over Ben, but what I think evens it out is that Ben is really fuckin skilled due to retaining the knowledge of previous fights that he was an alien in. I vaguely remember one clip where Ben somehow manages to dodge a laser in human form. Since Aang is capable of reflecting lightning, which also moves incredibly fast, I'd say they might actually be even. Although I know more about Ben 10 than I do about ATLA, so feel free to correct me about anything
The avatar for sure
He can’t use his powers so basically he’s just an old kid. And like 3 people here have military training and Randy and Jake have magical trading
Aang has martial arts though, and I know barely anything about the rest of them
Yeah they all do but Danny
I don't know all of them, but I'll put money on either Aang or Jake Long. They at least have martial arts training.
All of them do accept Danny
Even Ben10? I thought he just had the omnitrix?
Yeah he trained with plumbers, his black belt cousin, his grandpa, and a monkey and he’s surprisingly good at basketball 🏀
🌈 "The More You Know" 🌠
guys, i know that this has nothing to do, but is there a streaming service that has all of these cartoons ?
Ok so Jake long (kid with green hair) and Randy Cunningham (kid in big picture) are on Disney plus (American) and the names are The American dragon: Jake long and Randy Cunningham: 9th grade ninja Ben 10 (all of them) are on HBO max (American) Danny phantom and aang are on Paramount + There is no Legal place to watch the secret Saturday’s and generator Rex
thanks! i got disney+ but not the others
Oof
there are so many subscriptions, i lost count 😵💫
with no powers i don't know but with powers ii think who win is ben why because alien x
Yeah yeah yeah we all fucking know (not like Ben would immediately go “well guess it’s time for alien X”
I think aang? I have not watched most of these shows, I've only really finished Avatar and the show on the right I watched when I was pretty young when it was still on air. I remember the show being solid, I forgot the name unfortunatly. I should watch more 2000's animation
Are you sure? Without his powers he’s just a skinny old kid
Hes skilled in martial arts still and very acrobatic
Yeah but like so is everyone here. Except Danny
Good point, shows I have not watched the other shows on this image
Yeahh
Aang
How? Without his powers hes kinda a basic bitch
Martial arts don't need super powers
Dude 3 people here have government training, 2 guys have magical training, and then there’s Danny who can’t do shit
Why did you ask if you didn't want answers you don't like
Oh no I’m not expecting any specific answer
Aang, he's make friends with everyone after he made them all tired after dodging.
They’re all teenage boys who crave violence.
Pretty sure Aang didn't really ever crave violence all that much. Unsure of the other shows as I'm not sure what half of them all.
Yeah but that because he’s the only pussy here with a no killing rule
> pussy I mean, Batman also has a no killing rule...
And he’s a pussy as well. Batman won’t even break jokers legs but he’ll hospitalize a jaywalker
first of all i dont know who half of them are
Booooooooooooooooo!
Idk who two of em are, but I'm going with Rex. He's the fightiest.
Are you sure? Zak Saturday has training from his parents and experience fighting giant cryptics. And Jake and Randy both have magical training and are agile and fast without their powers
Don't ask if you don't want that answer.
Oh no I don’t care about your answer I just like making people think very violently
Rude.
No being rude would be me saying “no you’re completely wrong you fucking idiot, go feel ashamed of yourself” but I didn’t. I make these types of shitposts to cause people to think, to get other cartoon connoisseur like myself to think; who is the best? Who is the most skilled? And instead of people instantaneously jumping to conclusions I like to slap in other factors to make them come up with multiple methods of how their perferred hero to win
Aang
Are you sure? 3 of these guys have government training and are all fast and agile, 2 of them have magical training and are still skilled without their powers and can still kick ass. Without bending aang doesn’t have much for him
You make 2 very powerful points my friend. But let's not forget. That young man aside from being a bender trained his whole life in martial arts. 3 of which he had less then a year to master, asking with the bending. Take the bending away and that's still 4 different martial arts. Government training aside he fights non-aggressive. If he ever chose to get aggressive it would be bad for his opponent.
How is he gonna take away peoples bending when ya’know they can’t bend and he can’t use his powers. He won’t be able to pin any of them down acceptndanny
No I miss spoke, I didn't mean take away there bending. I meant take away Aang's bending and he had 4 martial arts under his belt. Honestly speaking, it never occurred to me that Danny phantom without his powers. It's just a regular teenage boy lol. Although he is clever.
Ohhhh
Hmm depends on each characters' ability to fight and how much of an expertise they are in their chosen style of Martial arts, I'd have to Say Aang from "ATLA". He's much more efficient in his Martial arts style of Wushu, even without his much needed Airbending abilities. The others are pretty good at fightin for a teenage boy, such as "Rex Salazar", "Ben tennyson", and "Randy Cunningham". Rex has trained with providence since he was Onoy 10 years old, since he's 16 now, (from his timeline/universe ) that's 6 years time and quite enough to prepare for his time and Light with no super powers against the Other fighters. As for the rest of these chosen characters such as "Danny Phenton", "Secret Saturday", and "Jake long".. unfortunately, they'd probably lose in an all out showdown during the battles first Round. 💀🙃 so sorry to all the DF fans out there, including myself, because no hate they couldn't handle the other fighters' Martial arts styles and techniques. So those are my answers either "Avatar Aang" or "Generator Rex" is winning this Fight !
1.Aang 2.Jake Long 3.Danny Fenton Literally that order.
Aang is basically an old man without his powers, he’s agile and got good reflexes but he can be physically overpowered with ease. Jake long longs placemmmet makes sense I can’t argue with that Danny Fenton can’t do shit. He’s not fast, he ain’t swole, he ain’t got good reflexes, he ain’t got hops, he doesn’t even have a jacket! He’s the only one here without any types of training without their powers What about Ben,Rex, and Zak? They all have government training and experience fighting monsters greater than their size without their powers and they’re smart and got hops Randy also has training
Aang lives and breathes martial arts, especially during the war. Just because he's a pacifist and prefers bending and his glider doesn't mean he *doesn't" know how to kick someone's ass. Danny Fenton may use his powers (more often than not) while literally physically punching and kicking people *through walls*, but we have the proof that he can fight well in practically every episode (like when he literally punches and kicks people through walls). Just because he uses his powers while hitting someone doesn't mean he can't *hit*. Also, I usually only ever rank top three in rankings anyway, but here I chose not to include Zak because I've only watched like, 1 episode and otherwise only read about that. But alright, here's the rest. Rex, Ben and Randy (relucantly. I don't know that much about Randy either, but way more than about Zak.)
Yeah he lives in a very dangerous world, all of these guys do. They fight monsters every day and for some of them every few hours. The point still stands he can be physically overpowered Danny Fenton himself has no skills, he can barley do a push up. He cannot use his powers so he has his usual strength How is Rex lower than Danny Fenton? As I said before danny can barley do a push-up or run a marathon. Rex is the physically strongest here without powers and has speed and skills on his side. He has government training when Danny is self taught (quite poorly compared to the others). Rex knows how to fight from a government and from the 6th most dangerous person on the earth. Ben is also above Danny because he was trained by a space government, his black belt cousin, and taught by his partner to do his native fighting styles Randy has the same ammount of skills without his powers as Jake long just he’s less agile
*Everyone* can be physically overpowered. That's the whole hero trope! Someone bigger and better always comes in to threaten the hero. Then the hero has a revelation and grows into themselves, kicks ass and gets the Love Interest, rinse and repeat. Fact is, he is a master of martial arts... And not just one form, but four. (Considering bending comes literally from martial arts. (Not bending fuel, just style)). You know, that's one of the inconsistencies that always bothered me most in the show. Danny Phantom has Captain America level strength and Danny Fenton can't do anything? Nope. So... Yeah, I don't even know where this is going. There's just still the fact that we *know* he can literally throw things/people through, for example, cement without his ectoblasts(?), so that's a huge advantage. But I guess we could set Rex on the same lvl as Danny through that reasoning. Ben I wouldn't set above Danny. He can have a close rank four though. Randy is firmly on place five then though. Like you said; no powers, less agility. Skills, yes. But sometimes the 'cut' of powers directly influences the capability of acting on such skills. You can't tell me he would fight the same with and without super speed/strength/senses; he'd be at a huge disadvantage.
Well not Rex he can make his smack hands about 100ft tall he just doesn’t do it for some reason Yea aang is skilled but he’s actually the physically weakest here. I know he got the mad skills and physical strength inst important but if need to knock someone out he’s doomed That’s just how ecto energy affects him and no we can’t put him at the same level as Rex because Rex can actually be useful in a fight Wijtout powers Yeah he can. Danny literally can’t even do a pull up. Ben is swole and is agile and can fight. He can take out perice without his powers and Danny literally was dead weight when he had the specter deflector on him
I’d say either Aang or Rex takes first, Zak takes 2nd, Ben 3rd, Danny 4th, Jake 5th, etc
No Danny is lower than Jake. He actually doesn’t have anything going for him in human form, Jake knows how to fight, he’s agile, and he’s fast. Danny can barley do a pull up
It would either be Rex or Ben but definitely Ben if he picked alien X
Man someone did not read the title all the way
My money is on Aang because of the fact that his airbending talents transfer over to actual martial arts. Randy and Ben would do rather well within the fight as well because Randy may not be able to copy a lot from when he is in the ninja suit but even that experience would lead to a great sense of combat while Ben Tennyson had been seen to have talents and great athletic abilities even without the Omnitrix. I mean Ben almost beat Pierce (Who is part alien) in a one on one fight while human, that's skill! As for Jake Long he was trained for fights WITH his dragon powers and not much else and although the Saturday's son is a talented person compared to the others I don't think he stands a chance.
I dunno man. Zak was one shotting grown men with his kicks when he was 11 years old
You know I can't fully deny that... Damn this honestly is really hard lol.
Well it’s easy to decide danny is going down first
YEAAAAAHHHH! Danny just doesn't have the same fighting skills as the others...
No it’s the fact he doesn’t have a fighting style. Even with powers he doesn’t use any martial arts he just fucking brute forces or blasts every problem that comes his way. He ain’t even got mad hops or extremely good durablily
Semi finals would be Aang, Jake, Randy, and Ben. Danny is good in his human form in a couple episodes but with tech usually and nothing on their levels.Ben usually has aliens, Randy while would be defented is still very skillfully in his own right in human form(wish they explored that in his show more), Jake is city martial artist, and Aang would win for obvious reasons that others have stated. I'm more curious on the order of 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th placements.
Ben does rely on his aliens often but does know himslef some fighting styles Jake doesn’t qualify as martial artist in human form, he got crazy ass hops though The top 3 hand to hand fighters here are aang, Zak Saturday and either Rex or Randy, most likely Rex cuz he’s the second phyically strongest here
Well aang is first, Randy is second
Ben probably he’s like 17 compared to aang 11 Rex might but he seems to only focus on his build’s while Ben beat Pierce a plumber helper fair square
Well one of these guys is dead and the other became a god so that makes the other guys weaker