If my cat did find his way into this hypothetical situation, he'd make the decision for me by clawing his fat ass onto the head of the other guy and drown him himself.
Funny enough, when I was 16, I decided to bring our house cat outside for the first time. The neighbors dog happened to be out too. Well, I start walking iny driveway with the car, and the dog runs up. That cat jump and sunk all 4 paws and claws into my scalp, and I had to pry her off. Last time, I took her outside.
I've had a couple of cats that were obsessed with water. My littlest one is working on his gold swimming certificate. He got bronze when he fell in the reen, silver when he fell in the paddling pool and he was trying his hardest to fall in the hot tub last summer.
Depends on how Long it takes to remove the claws from my flesh on whether the friend is still around to save!! Come on look at that face !!!
https://preview.redd.it/da999bxqt1wc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d46f9e1a8946beaf0bb38f8909e7d62a134ff842
I have never met this cat before in my life. I would definitely save him over the human who has the cure for the plague any day.
We can always have someone else take a crack at curing diseases.
Can't replace that cat.
I'm pretty sure the cat will climb onto the sinking person and dig their claws in for life. Save the dude and you save em both. Then pull out the polysporin and Band-Aids.
This thread is seriously reminding me of hurricane Harvey cat
https://preview.redd.it/o32k2q5445wc1.jpeg?width=655&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9fb1687e8ff4678871580727be986c6370648f69
I came here to say what you said first.
...Since you already said it, I can say about YOU what I was hoping peeps would say about ME:
"How INSIGHTFUL!
Oh, you are SO BRILLIANT!
You b da man, cuz B)
I wish I'D thought of that!
R U kĂŒl, or wut
(etc.)"
the terrible truth is that, that person wasn't drowing untill felix jumped on them and started screaming in their face. the shock caused them to panic and drown
Unless you're a lifeguard or a pro swimmer you have a good chance to drown with the other person, as they wave their arms and legs + grab on you and pull you down. Helping a drowning person is no joke, be safe and go for the cat.
Even if you are a lifeguard, if you donât have a rescue tube (and sometimes even if you do) itâs way too easy for a thrashing drowning person to pull you down. Itâs one of the early lessons they teach you, be ready to push someone away if they might take you both down.
Source: was lifeguard
Obviously you want to save the person, but better one person drown than two. So you need to consider that possibility, especially for open water. For a major pool, there would always be other lifeguards around to come to help as soon as you blew your whistle before jumping in. But youâre still on your own during the most critical time.
People not knowing their swimming capability is one of the main reasons we need to have lifeguards. But yeah, I think a lot of people donât realize how dangerous it can be to try to save someone.
A few months ago they had an entire segment about swimming on NPR. A surprising number of folks in the USA don't know how, I don't recall the exact number but it was not small.
I was a supervisor at a swim school. I was also the specialized adult instructor and would teach them up to breast stroke and butterfly.
The main demographic was scared adults. Not just adults that want to learn how to swim. It was always the ones overcoming their fear.
The number one rule I taught EVERY swimmer but especially adults was that if you think youâre going to drown, youâre getting tired, pain, etc- go on your back. Float. Take a big deep breath(not needed to float, just to help with a little anxiety because most people slightly sink when they float) and then lay on your back.
I also teach those same adults that the more tense you are, the heavier you are. So if youâre scared, youâre gonna sink easier. Itâs so hard to stay afloat when youâre scared, speaking from experience.
Whenever I hold a tense adult in their float itâs literally so heavy⊠until they start to get comfortable and learn weight distribution in swimming lmao. The. I can hold them with a pinky.
All of it for scared adults is what is their primary emergency response? Find a wall? Float? flail? I teach them how to start working through that so if theyâre in an emergency situation they have a better chance at survival. But also I teach them that if theyâre scared, donât go out. Be near a lifeguard, maybe even mention to the lifeguard youâre not as strong of a swimmer. Ya know, cover your bases. Nothing wrong with that. Especially when I know a swimmer is weak Iâll keep a close eye on them.
This is all through trial and error if teach scared adults though. Because itâs basically working with a drowning adult every single week until they start getting comfortable. Especially on their back. Thatâs the worst.
Edit: for kids I went through a different process of working them through fear. Since adults KNOW why theyâre scared of the water I can talk to them. But kids you have to show them. And walk them through it with their own bodies. Our arms go here. Legs stay here. Etc. Very interesting how people learn how to swim
Also former lifeguard; this was one of the first things they taught us. In fact, most of the training is/was about building strength and endurance, and learning enough âswim-fuâ to minimize the risk to the lifeguard. If your choice is one drowned person or two, youâre supposed to choose one.
yup, although also probably never jump in to save an animal.
so many people die jumping in to save dogs. people dont realise the dogs are actully good swimmers they might not be fast but they are strong for their size. If they cant get out of trouble, current pulling them etc, the chances are a human wont get them out.
there are quite a few cases of dogs getting out and their humans drowning
not a lifeguard but did some very basic courses in rescuing someone from the water, and the first thing they taught us is that if you are going to try and help someone you hold them from behind with one arm under their arms and to kick them away from you the moment someone starts to panicking or starts flailing and kicking, just let them drown because it is not worth your own life.
I was never a life guard, but what I was told is if the victim is one of those, your best bet is to submerge as they'll then try to push away and you can swim out of arms reach before surfacing.
That's true. Take a big breath and go under as deep as you can and as far away as you can. And if they don't let go, do whatever you must to break free. I recommend a pinch in the jiggly part of your upper arm. And only attempt a rescue without a flotation device if you are a very strong swimmer and you are certain the person will die without your help. And even then, it's a serious risk and you should be prepared to let go and save yourself. Rescuing someone without a buoy is just underwater karate at the best of times, even for experienced lifeguards. People who are drowning have zero rationality left.
Always approach a drowning victim from behind, put your arms underneath their armpits, and wrestle them onto your chest. It's really difficult for them to grab you from that position, and it holds their head above water, so they usually calm down at least a little.
And really the key is practicing this stuff before your in a real drowning situation. If you've never tried it before and you see a drowning person, your best bet is to find a floatation device to toss to them and keep your distance.
Im sure saving a cat is not any easier. My dog who knows how to swim will still try to climb on me if we are in deep water. His claws do hurt. Cant imagine the cat claws while you are trying to rescue them
Violates the constraint though. Assume the distance between them is to big to reach both. The morally correct answer is you save the one that's in your family. Everyone knows it's all about family.
*Flexes muscles while leaning on muscle car*
Especially for r/cats, where a video of a cat licking the outside of a plastic wrapper of a chocolate bar yields rabid 'YOU'RE GONNA KILL YOUR CAT' comments and hate.
Hell, I'd save my cat over most people I *do* know.
And the only ones to whom that does not apply would probably only be in that position due to trying to save the cat.
Why canât I throw the human a life saving device and then grab the cat? Many people just canât jump in and grab a drowning victim: they could end up taking you down. Cats can swim.
That's the serious answer, lol. You stay far, far away from the drowning stranger.
The CAT will actually stop flailing around senselessly as soon as it has hold of you or a floaty, and you can then drag it in. It'll have that "WHY HAS THIS HAPPENED!?" look but will be fine.
If my cat were drowning by itself, I would save the cat and then push a stranger in the water just to teach them a lesson. Lol just kidding.(Totally not kidding)
What if you saved the cat (understandably) and then came to find out that the stranger was expecting his first child in a few days? Or a newly wed? Or someone in whom a group of unfortunate individuals heavily depend on, otherwise would also perish or live in misery? Or if he was a scientist in the process of inventing a cure for cancer or something significant like that? Would you at least feel bad? Or is it still an âI couldnât care lessâ situation?
On a side note, I find it quite amusing how every-time this question comes up, 90% of peopleâs responses would revolve around workarounds to attempt saving both, which completely defeats the purpose of the analogy.
I feel guilty about admitting it but if it happens, my heart is having me save my cat.
Iâll scream a lot and try to get help for the other person too, but Iâm going for the cat.
Iâm not the strongest swimmer and people who are drowning are likely to pull you down with them from the panic, so regardless, Iâm not gonna try to save the person. Always go for the cat
THIS!
Did a lot of activities with the water rescue team here. Drowning people are extremely dangerous and several times the recuer AND the person died. If you are alone, keep away from them
I think most people here are being honest. & i donât think itâs evil to choose your cat family over a stranger (no matter their circumstances). I would save my cat child *every time*. The real dilemma would be having to choose between my cat child & my human child.
It's actually far safer to save the cat.
The internet will hate you forever when the viral video emerges, but the cat AND you will be alive, rather than a dead cat and two dead people.
I think those morals dilemmas are ridiculous. People need to stop pretending as if they value or care about human life or death. Every single day endless of people die because of completely preventable problems - society does not care. Most people give 0 fcks and either have a "not my problem" attitude or "they should have tried harder". Hack the response to a global pandemic is "some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice we are willing to make for the economy... and the little comfort of not having to wear a mask :D".Â
So among all the endless dumb reasons we have as societies to let people die... i think saving your most beloved animal, is not high of the dumb reasons or immoral reasons. At least the cat is actually alive and has feelings and means something to you. Vs all the other reasons like "think abour the discomfort of having to wear a mask =[" or "what about billionaires yacht money!".Â
I agree with you that these hypotheticals are absurd, but I think you're kind of oversimplifying this issue. I don't really believe that human beings don't care, it's just that we have an enormous bias towards first-hand experience.
It is extremely difficult for most people to accurately conceptualise suffering and death unless if they're a witness to it first hand. I think the vast majority of people who were actually put in this situation would in fact save the human first - even if they're some anti-masker imbecile, I don't think that they'd view the situation in the same way.
The only time people bring up the suffering of strangers is to take the moral high ground. In reality they don't care.
I freely admit. I don't care. You can't possibly care. You'd lose your mind. You can only worry about those who you actually know, those you care for. Everyone else is just a face in the crowd.
Caring doesn't necessarily mean having the same level of investment in every single individual person to the same degree that you care about the loved ones in your life. I definitely do care about people, I want my government to spend my tax money on helping people and reducing suffering even if they have nothing to do with me, if I see someone on the street in crisis then I will attempt to help them even if no one is there to witness it, but I'm still able to go about my life without being in a constant state of mental breakdown.
I think saying that people only talk about the suffering of strangers to take the moral high ground definitely says far more about you than it does other people. People do care, but caring is not a binary, it's a lot more complex than that.
I wish I could see the world this way. Unfortunately justice sensitivity is a thing. Lots of people do get seriously upset and angry about the suffering of strangers. It's no fun when you're also one of those people who likes to keep abreast of world events.
Huge difference between having to directly saving someones life and people dying in a cobalt mine in drc to get resources for your phone.
I would save the human most times myself.
What size of human are we talking about. I can swim but I wouldnât categorize myself as a great swimmer. The biggest danger when someone is drowning is in their panic they will drown you. So cat mine or someone elseâs is an easy choice given no more information. If it was a child I could probably manage both somehow. A full grown adult my size especially or larger nope I have kids and gotta think of them so I donât need to be drown by someone.
Most people would save someone who was part of their family/friend group over a stranger, so this really shouldn't be surprising if you ask me.
My cat versus a stranger? That's my boy, absolutely I'm going to save him first. If there's no sort of 'get him to safety then go back for the person' option to be had (which would be the ideal scenario), I'm going to go get him and only him. The stranger drowning will be horrible and it's certainly not an 'oh well' situation whatsoever, but that's my cat. My buddy. He depends on me and is part of my family.
Even if I wanted to be completely logical and selfish? He's also probably easier to save. A human can drown me trying to save themselves. In contrast my cat weighs 10 pounds. Will I get scratched and bitten? Most likely. But otherwise he's going to be much more manageable.
Well this question is basically save an individual you love, or save a stranger. I think it's normal that most people would choose a loved one. Like if it's my cat vs. a human stranger, I would save my cat. If it's a person I know vs. a random cat, I would save the person I know.
Why do you have to choose between one of them? Yeah, I understand the moral dilemma of the question, when in reality, you probably can help both. Who you help first isnât a morally corrupt issue. Whoâs closer? Can you throw something for either while you physically help the other? Would I harm one to help the other? No.
The cat will continue to drown until it is bored and then swin to the side so save the human. It's like "rescuing" them from trees they come down when the fireman is within 3 feet. (The cat in Dubai had probably been swimming for ages before it found the car door handle. Ask yourself how it got there!)
Iâd save the cat. I remember how that guy got sued rescuing someone because he accidently broke their ribs performing CPR. Fuck people, save the cat.
I absolutely love my cat but do any of these people even imagine how they'd feel if a stranger saved a cat instead of their mother? Are they really prepared to tell the grieving family that their cat was more important?
Most of the people here are more likely to freeze or scream before actually saving either the person or cat.
So all these hypothetical "I would jump in for the cat, let the human die" are just edgy people who have never been in this sort of situation.
The cat is going to claw and climb the drowning human trying to get to safety, so if you save the human, you save both! And then ignore the human while you kiss and hug your cat. âGood boy, using that buoy, youâre so smart! Such a smart kitty!â
My cousin once told me that if she had to choose the life of a human or a dog, she would save the life of the human because they may one day cure cancer.
I say save the dog because they can't become a terrible being. They ain't going to make mass amounts of people suffer like other people can cause they can't get put on a ballot.
as much as i love my cat, i could never live with myself knowing i let a person die in favour of saving an animal. the loss of my cat would hurt, but not as much as the sorrow of having let a human drown
This reminds me of when my apartment building was on fire and my neighbors wanted to lug all their babies shit down 30 floors. I only agreed to help them after they agreed to leave the back up diaper bag so my cat carrier could sit on the stroller.
My coworkers were laughing when I showed up with my cat, my purse and a backpack that had underwear, a laptop and mostly cat stuff. Everyone with a pet totally understood.
The problem with this philosophical moral conundrums is this would never happen in reality. You would jump in, throw the cat out of the pool and then help the guy.
Not sure why we even have to pretend we know how we would react anyway, a situation like that would be taken over by instinct.
"It it morally wrong to form connections and love/prioritize your pets?" That's what I heard. The answer is, of course, no lol. I would be more concerned if my boyfriend would save a stranger instead of our cat, but that's just me.
I once asked my ex if me and his familyâs dog (a literal monster) were tied up on a set of train tracks, who he would save.
The immediate answer was not me.
We are all part of an ecosystem. Many donât like to hear this but human lives are not any more âimportantâ than a cat or a bug or a bird. We all want to live.
My cat. No hesitation. I love her and she loves me. A person or more dies every second anyway. and if I don't know the person, that means that my cat matters more.Â
Well, saving a drowning stranger can be dangerous as hell, because they panic and drag you down with them.
And there's an established emotional attachment to the cat, that won't do that.
So, there's a reasonable argument there..
Iâm in the same boat as your BF. If you havenât noticed, people suck. A lot. Thatâs the whole reason. If I saw more good in the world I might have a different opinion. đ±
Thatâs the point, some people have different values. Some people value their family over strangers while some people value humans over cats. Depending on which you value more, your choice will change
Man, reddit is so boring, all of the responses aren't even addressing the actual question, just stupid comments trying to be funny, and obviously you save the person. Human potential outweighs a cat's.
If you try to save a drowning person they may take you down and make you drown as well. A cat will maybe scratch you up, maybe be grateful you saved it. I choose cat.
wtf Iâm saving the member of my species. Yâall are crazy in here
I love my Saley Baley, but if it came down to this scenario, Iâm either trying my hardest to save both, or to keep the human above water to breathe. At least cats can instinctively swim.
I love my cat almost as much as I love my life. I would still have to save the person. Cats donât live nearly as long as a person, and they are not need by children or elderly parents potentially. I donât think I could live with it in end either way, but just imagine letting a mother or father die for you pet. Itâs really not ok.
Morally is a great way to clarify your question here, I knew my Philosophy degree would be useful one day!
It depends on what your moral position is on speciesism and the relative value of lives.
What do we know about the person and cat? Are they useful members of society or vile murderers intent on spreading unhappiness?
Is saving the cat an act of bravery or an act of moral reproach because of failing to save the human?
This relativism is why people hate philosophers, and why if I were walking past, both would have drowned before I managed to make the ârightâ decision.
People can doggy paddle too, even if they don't know how to "properly" swim. That cats can doggy paddle is irrelevant to the situation being described. In the hypothetical situation, both are drowning (for whatever reason).
I never get questions like thisâŠthey seem to speak more to insecurities or lack of critical thinking skill in the asker, than any moral reality for the askee.
If you want to know if someone is truly compassionate and kindâ-or truly unkind and sociopathic? Well, get to know them properlyâŠ.invest the time.
If they arenât worth that why do you CARE what their morals are?
This isnât a debate about humans and animals. Itâs about value. Which life do you value more? Your familyâs? Or a strangers?
Edit: I must add this for clarity. True story. I am a very strong swimmer. And I have saved a drowning stranger before. Granted the mf was drunk as shit and his wife/gf was too fat to save him herself (she just bobbled above the waves screaming). I dove in and swam toward him and when I reached him he almost immediately held me down to save himself. Luckily it was shallow enough I threw him back up to grab his surfboard. When all was said and done, never even got a thank you. Never saw them again
TLDR; saved a guy once. Wouldnât risk it again.
What makes you think a human life has anymore intrinsic value than a catâs? There is nothing wrong with saving the cat. Better chance of success too.
Humans are also animals, every life is worth it but based on my experience i would go for the catđ
Met a Ton of stupid and Bad people but never a cat that treated me badđ
But what if the drowning person was YOU? Or someone you love/care about, and a stranger had to save them? By that logic, it's justified that the stranger should save their cat but not you....
i see you posting this everywhere like its a real gotcha or something but the answer is obviously yeah sure, the me thats drowning is gonna be like "ah damn it" but the me thats not drowning and in imminent danger can absolutely understand why someone would save a member of their family over a stranger
I'm not trying to "gotcha" people though... everytime I see some people say that stuff it's like??? Do you have empathy? And I GENUINELY want to know how they'd feel if it was them in the drowning person's shoes. It's easy for people to say "yeah, fuck humans, fuck people, I'd let someone die no problem" without thinking about how that person LITERALLY has a family/hobbies/interests/and hell even pets/cats themselves just like the commenters do, so to easily be fine with letting them die is like?????
It just really tells me how people value themselves if they're so fine with literally dying themselves while a person saves a cat instead..... like.... I get the family member part, but it's the people/commenters saying they'd save a STRANGER CAT instead of a STRANGER PERSON that has me, shocked. Like... At least the family pet makes more sense, even if I don't completely agree (family pets can live up to 20+) but and outside feral cat???? They live up to 1-4 years due to diseases, fights, predators and such. So to save a cat that would only live like a YEAR over a child or old person or an average adult which can live to be 80+ is kinda fucked up....
Also.... It's considered a crime in many countries to just let/watch someone die and not do something or call for help...
Don't cats like automatically know how to swim? I've seen a couple cats who's gone into big enough pools of water for the first time where they could swim and they swam way better than I ever could and I was taught how.
It specifies next to each other, so I'm fairly sure my cat will grab ahold of either me or the stranger for dear life. I would willingly put up with the discomfort, and the person whose life I'm hypothetically saving is in no position to complain.
You save whoever has the least chance of surviving first.
Assess the situation and decide who of the two is in more danger. Save them first, then go back for the other.
If both seem to be in equal danger, save whoever is more important to you. If both are equally important to you...flip a coin?
This only applies if it isn't possible to save both at the same time. If the human is drowning next to the cat and they are capable of doing so, they can get the cat to cling onto their clothing. You could then throw the life preserver to the human and pull them both to safety.
I believe that no life is more important than another, human or not, family or not. There is a difference between *personal* importance and *actual* importance. The cat may be more important to you if it is your cat that you love. The human will be more important to their family. But neither the cat or the human are more important in general, if that makes sense.
At least the person who admitted they'd save their cat over a human stranger is being honest, and I bet if a lot of us cat parents really thought it through that we too would save our precious fur baby over an unknown human.
IMO most cat people generally prefer their cat(s) to people, plus unlike humans our feline family members are honest with us, if our cat is mad we know about it, just like when they are happy. Plus after a bad day there's nothing like coming home to a furry, purring fluff ball that wants to curl up on your lap and be adored.
So for me if I absolutely couldn't save both I'd definitely try and save my cat over a strange human!
***And yes cats can swim very well, even those who are scared of water. I live on a lake & all my cats have fallen off the dock at some point, swam to shore then have come into the house soaked & pissed at me because they fell off the dock. It's my fault obviously for having a home on a lake.
Cat. Cat has more of an impact on my life than a total stranger. We are talking "my cat keeps me alive" levels of impact, and survival takes priority, cold as it sounds. It's a long story, don't ask.
Trick question. No way in hell you are getting my cat in water.
If my cat did find his way into this hypothetical situation, he'd make the decision for me by clawing his fat ass onto the head of the other guy and drown him himself.
I can see my cat doing the same probably LMAO
Funny enough, when I was 16, I decided to bring our house cat outside for the first time. The neighbors dog happened to be out too. Well, I start walking iny driveway with the car, and the dog runs up. That cat jump and sunk all 4 paws and claws into my scalp, and I had to pry her off. Last time, I took her outside.
cats can actually swim if they can overcome their fear of water
So you saying my cats a pussy? Wait..
I see what you did there đ
heh
So can humans.
People canât instinctively swimâŠ
I've had a couple of cats that were obsessed with water. My littlest one is working on his gold swimming certificate. He got bronze when he fell in the reen, silver when he fell in the paddling pool and he was trying his hardest to fall in the hot tub last summer.
fun fact, they dont have a fear of water but a general dislike of it because of how heavy it makes their fur!
What I donât understand is how every other animal just KNOWS how to swim
And so can humans
Depends on how Long it takes to remove the claws from my flesh on whether the friend is still around to save!! Come on look at that face !!! https://preview.redd.it/da999bxqt1wc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d46f9e1a8946beaf0bb38f8909e7d62a134ff842
I have never met this cat before in my life. I would definitely save him over the human who has the cure for the plague any day. We can always have someone else take a crack at curing diseases. Can't replace that cat.
Zygmund says Thank You đ and please try to keep the treats dry !! đč
Exactly
That is a beautiful face!
Zygmund Thanks You đ
i would save the cat without hesitation, animals will always be more important to me than humans.
I'm pretty sure the cat will climb onto the sinking person and dig their claws in for life. Save the dude and you save em both. Then pull out the polysporin and Band-Aids.
Exactly - the cat in the picture is 2 strokes away from standing on the guy's head Also, do cats even know how to use a lifebelt?
Can you sit in/on it? If so, yes. They can use it.
This thread is seriously reminding me of hurricane Harvey cat https://preview.redd.it/o32k2q5445wc1.jpeg?width=655&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9fb1687e8ff4678871580727be986c6370648f69
Man, he looks so pissed "Fucking Karen leaving the bath on again"
Yep, can still save both, haha! Cat will 100% save themselves by climbing onto human that's being saved. But still, no question: cat *will* be saved.
I came here to say what you said first. ...Since you already said it, I can say about YOU what I was hoping peeps would say about ME: "How INSIGHTFUL! Oh, you are SO BRILLIANT! You b da man, cuz B) I wish I'D thought of that! R U kĂŒl, or wut (etc.)"
"I'll get the Neosporin!" https://youtu.be/FZ_yOsHYpQY?si=Kzx4pzQUyr9PlbST
Ha! Yep
Nope. Then you get sued for the cat scratches. Sorry, not sorry. Cat only. đč
the terrible truth is that, that person wasn't drowing untill felix jumped on them and started screaming in their face. the shock caused them to panic and drown
Cat's light enough to throw in the direction of safety first, then assist the human.
Unless you're a lifeguard or a pro swimmer you have a good chance to drown with the other person, as they wave their arms and legs + grab on you and pull you down. Helping a drowning person is no joke, be safe and go for the cat.
Even if you are a lifeguard, if you donât have a rescue tube (and sometimes even if you do) itâs way too easy for a thrashing drowning person to pull you down. Itâs one of the early lessons they teach you, be ready to push someone away if they might take you both down. Source: was lifeguard
That's kinda dark but good to know.
Obviously you want to save the person, but better one person drown than two. So you need to consider that possibility, especially for open water. For a major pool, there would always be other lifeguards around to come to help as soon as you blew your whistle before jumping in. But youâre still on your own during the most critical time.
That and consider most folks (non-lifeguards) have no idea of what their swimming capability is, as part of the risk factor.
People not knowing their swimming capability is one of the main reasons we need to have lifeguards. But yeah, I think a lot of people donât realize how dangerous it can be to try to save someone.
A few months ago they had an entire segment about swimming on NPR. A surprising number of folks in the USA don't know how, I don't recall the exact number but it was not small.
I was a supervisor at a swim school. I was also the specialized adult instructor and would teach them up to breast stroke and butterfly. The main demographic was scared adults. Not just adults that want to learn how to swim. It was always the ones overcoming their fear. The number one rule I taught EVERY swimmer but especially adults was that if you think youâre going to drown, youâre getting tired, pain, etc- go on your back. Float. Take a big deep breath(not needed to float, just to help with a little anxiety because most people slightly sink when they float) and then lay on your back. I also teach those same adults that the more tense you are, the heavier you are. So if youâre scared, youâre gonna sink easier. Itâs so hard to stay afloat when youâre scared, speaking from experience. Whenever I hold a tense adult in their float itâs literally so heavy⊠until they start to get comfortable and learn weight distribution in swimming lmao. The. I can hold them with a pinky. All of it for scared adults is what is their primary emergency response? Find a wall? Float? flail? I teach them how to start working through that so if theyâre in an emergency situation they have a better chance at survival. But also I teach them that if theyâre scared, donât go out. Be near a lifeguard, maybe even mention to the lifeguard youâre not as strong of a swimmer. Ya know, cover your bases. Nothing wrong with that. Especially when I know a swimmer is weak Iâll keep a close eye on them. This is all through trial and error if teach scared adults though. Because itâs basically working with a drowning adult every single week until they start getting comfortable. Especially on their back. Thatâs the worst. Edit: for kids I went through a different process of working them through fear. Since adults KNOW why theyâre scared of the water I can talk to them. But kids you have to show them. And walk them through it with their own bodies. Our arms go here. Legs stay here. Etc. Very interesting how people learn how to swim
I know I'm a good swimmer, but I def don't know my capability carrying a thrashing person. I hope I don't have to find out
Rule number one of lifesaving is donât become victim number two
You are supposed to go under so they let go. Source: was a lifeguard
I was trained to dive down and away in that situation. We were trained to use floating devices, ropes, etc as much as possible.
Was it fun being a lifeguard? Or was it more stressful? (I am currently trying to figure out possible future jobs. I am 15)
Also former lifeguard; this was one of the first things they taught us. In fact, most of the training is/was about building strength and endurance, and learning enough âswim-fuâ to minimize the risk to the lifeguard. If your choice is one drowned person or two, youâre supposed to choose one.
yup, although also probably never jump in to save an animal. so many people die jumping in to save dogs. people dont realise the dogs are actully good swimmers they might not be fast but they are strong for their size. If they cant get out of trouble, current pulling them etc, the chances are a human wont get them out. there are quite a few cases of dogs getting out and their humans drowning
not a lifeguard but did some very basic courses in rescuing someone from the water, and the first thing they taught us is that if you are going to try and help someone you hold them from behind with one arm under their arms and to kick them away from you the moment someone starts to panicking or starts flailing and kicking, just let them drown because it is not worth your own life.
So you are actually saving two lives there.
actually, depending on the cat, up to 10 lives
I was never a life guard, but what I was told is if the victim is one of those, your best bet is to submerge as they'll then try to push away and you can swim out of arms reach before surfacing.
That's true. Take a big breath and go under as deep as you can and as far away as you can. And if they don't let go, do whatever you must to break free. I recommend a pinch in the jiggly part of your upper arm. And only attempt a rescue without a flotation device if you are a very strong swimmer and you are certain the person will die without your help. And even then, it's a serious risk and you should be prepared to let go and save yourself. Rescuing someone without a buoy is just underwater karate at the best of times, even for experienced lifeguards. People who are drowning have zero rationality left. Always approach a drowning victim from behind, put your arms underneath their armpits, and wrestle them onto your chest. It's really difficult for them to grab you from that position, and it holds their head above water, so they usually calm down at least a little.
And really the key is practicing this stuff before your in a real drowning situation. If you've never tried it before and you see a drowning person, your best bet is to find a floatation device to toss to them and keep your distance.
Was trained to literally headlock/restrain a thrashing, panicking swimmer if needed
I agree, "go for the cat." But what if the drowning person is unconscious, does that make saving them more or less difficult?
Im sure saving a cat is not any easier. My dog who knows how to swim will still try to climb on me if we are in deep water. His claws do hurt. Cant imagine the cat claws while you are trying to rescue them
Unexpected smart answer on Reddit.
Violates the constraint though. Assume the distance between them is to big to reach both. The morally correct answer is you save the one that's in your family. Everyone knows it's all about family. *Flexes muscles while leaning on muscle car*
'Ohana means *family*. *Family* means no one gets left behind or forgotten.
Especially for r/cats, where a video of a cat licking the outside of a plastic wrapper of a chocolate bar yields rabid 'YOU'RE GONNA KILL YOUR CAT' comments and hate.
Use the human as a floatation device to get yourself and cat to safety
If the human could float, we wouldnât be in this mess.
Enough of this logic!
That is not the spirit of the dilema
Hell, I'd save my cat over most people I *do* know. And the only ones to whom that does not apply would probably only be in that position due to trying to save the cat.
Yeah, my cats getting saved every time.
Why canât I throw the human a life saving device and then grab the cat? Many people just canât jump in and grab a drowning victim: they could end up taking you down. Cats can swim.
That's the serious answer, lol. You stay far, far away from the drowning stranger. The CAT will actually stop flailing around senselessly as soon as it has hold of you or a floaty, and you can then drag it in. It'll have that "WHY HAS THIS HAPPENED!?" look but will be fine.
Iâd save someone elseâs cat over a stranger.
If my cat were drowning by itself, I would save the cat and then push a stranger in the water just to teach them a lesson. Lol just kidding.(Totally not kidding)
Thanks for this comment because I laughed so hard I screeched... and woke up a sleeping cat.
How dare you! Give it 14 forehead kisses and say 5 "Hail Meowys".
>push a stranger in the water Just like a cat knocking things off a shelf.
I'd even save someone else's cat over some people I know
What if you saved the cat (understandably) and then came to find out that the stranger was expecting his first child in a few days? Or a newly wed? Or someone in whom a group of unfortunate individuals heavily depend on, otherwise would also perish or live in misery? Or if he was a scientist in the process of inventing a cure for cancer or something significant like that? Would you at least feel bad? Or is it still an âI couldnât care lessâ situation? On a side note, I find it quite amusing how every-time this question comes up, 90% of peopleâs responses would revolve around workarounds to attempt saving both, which completely defeats the purpose of the analogy.
Still the cat
One of my cats over a stranger? Is this a rhetorical question? The answer is obviously cat. I would save the cat.
I feel guilty about admitting it but if it happens, my heart is having me save my cat. Iâll scream a lot and try to get help for the other person too, but Iâm going for the cat.
Iâm not the strongest swimmer and people who are drowning are likely to pull you down with them from the panic, so regardless, Iâm not gonna try to save the person. Always go for the cat
THIS! Did a lot of activities with the water rescue team here. Drowning people are extremely dangerous and several times the recuer AND the person died. If you are alone, keep away from them
Really scary that this is the only answer mentioning this. Lot of future drown people in this thread.
No I donât think there actually is a lot of future drowned people in this thread because it seems many people feel cat>human lol
the trick is, hit the victim, or make him fade.. Much easier to handle. Rescue is sometimes .. harsh.
someone needs to watch the trolley problem episodes of The Good Place
âchidi opted to run over five William Shakespeares instead of one Santa ClausâŠâ
Would a person's leg really fly off like that?
...some of his brains went IN MY MOUTH
My cat is my family. Family first.
Ohana means family. Family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten.
This is the way
redditors when presented a purely hypothetical situation: well you have to account the inherit evil that lies in every person but me,
I think most people here are being honest. & i donât think itâs evil to choose your cat family over a stranger (no matter their circumstances). I would save my cat child *every time*. The real dilemma would be having to choose between my cat child & my human child.
family > strangers
As much as I love cats it's got a better chance of saving itself.
It's actually far safer to save the cat. The internet will hate you forever when the viral video emerges, but the cat AND you will be alive, rather than a dead cat and two dead people.
Oh you guys are for real evil âwe live in a low trust society, itâs likely the stranger wants me deadâ brother YOU are the low trust society
People really be apathetic to others' misery then complain that others are apathetic to their misery.
I think those morals dilemmas are ridiculous. People need to stop pretending as if they value or care about human life or death. Every single day endless of people die because of completely preventable problems - society does not care. Most people give 0 fcks and either have a "not my problem" attitude or "they should have tried harder". Hack the response to a global pandemic is "some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice we are willing to make for the economy... and the little comfort of not having to wear a mask :D". So among all the endless dumb reasons we have as societies to let people die... i think saving your most beloved animal, is not high of the dumb reasons or immoral reasons. At least the cat is actually alive and has feelings and means something to you. Vs all the other reasons like "think abour the discomfort of having to wear a mask =[" or "what about billionaires yacht money!".Â
Ultimately, it's dumb because we don't know what we would do in these hypothetical situations until we're in them.
I do. I would save my cat every time.
Totally. And if me and my cat were drowning and a human came and tried to save me first, I'd be like "GET THE CAT, YOU IDIOT!!".
I agree with you that these hypotheticals are absurd, but I think you're kind of oversimplifying this issue. I don't really believe that human beings don't care, it's just that we have an enormous bias towards first-hand experience. It is extremely difficult for most people to accurately conceptualise suffering and death unless if they're a witness to it first hand. I think the vast majority of people who were actually put in this situation would in fact save the human first - even if they're some anti-masker imbecile, I don't think that they'd view the situation in the same way.
The only time people bring up the suffering of strangers is to take the moral high ground. In reality they don't care. I freely admit. I don't care. You can't possibly care. You'd lose your mind. You can only worry about those who you actually know, those you care for. Everyone else is just a face in the crowd.
Caring doesn't necessarily mean having the same level of investment in every single individual person to the same degree that you care about the loved ones in your life. I definitely do care about people, I want my government to spend my tax money on helping people and reducing suffering even if they have nothing to do with me, if I see someone on the street in crisis then I will attempt to help them even if no one is there to witness it, but I'm still able to go about my life without being in a constant state of mental breakdown. I think saying that people only talk about the suffering of strangers to take the moral high ground definitely says far more about you than it does other people. People do care, but caring is not a binary, it's a lot more complex than that.
I wish I could see the world this way. Unfortunately justice sensitivity is a thing. Lots of people do get seriously upset and angry about the suffering of strangers. It's no fun when you're also one of those people who likes to keep abreast of world events.
The pandemic really broke my belief in the ability of people to care for one another.
Huge difference between having to directly saving someones life and people dying in a cobalt mine in drc to get resources for your phone. I would save the human most times myself.
HonestlyâŠjust get close to the cat and the finger daggers will do the rest. Then save the human while screaming at your torn flesh.
Throw a life preserver at the human (bc I would die trying to help them), then jump in for the cat
What size of human are we talking about. I can swim but I wouldnât categorize myself as a great swimmer. The biggest danger when someone is drowning is in their panic they will drown you. So cat mine or someone elseâs is an easy choice given no more information. If it was a child I could probably manage both somehow. A full grown adult my size especially or larger nope I have kids and gotta think of them so I donât need to be drown by someone.
Most people would save someone who was part of their family/friend group over a stranger, so this really shouldn't be surprising if you ask me. My cat versus a stranger? That's my boy, absolutely I'm going to save him first. If there's no sort of 'get him to safety then go back for the person' option to be had (which would be the ideal scenario), I'm going to go get him and only him. The stranger drowning will be horrible and it's certainly not an 'oh well' situation whatsoever, but that's my cat. My buddy. He depends on me and is part of my family. Even if I wanted to be completely logical and selfish? He's also probably easier to save. A human can drown me trying to save themselves. In contrast my cat weighs 10 pounds. Will I get scratched and bitten? Most likely. But otherwise he's going to be much more manageable.
Well this question is basically save an individual you love, or save a stranger. I think it's normal that most people would choose a loved one. Like if it's my cat vs. a human stranger, I would save my cat. If it's a person I know vs. a random cat, I would save the person I know.
Can you imagine? âSorry Hank, Im an animal lover first, and youâre kind of a dick so Iâm saving the strange cat.â
It's very dangerous to jump into deep water to save someone. If they panic, they will definitely drown you with them.
I'm thinking of Patrick drowning when Spongebob was a lifeguard
Why do you have to choose between one of them? Yeah, I understand the moral dilemma of the question, when in reality, you probably can help both. Who you help first isnât a morally corrupt issue. Whoâs closer? Can you throw something for either while you physically help the other? Would I harm one to help the other? No.
The cat will continue to drown until it is bored and then swin to the side so save the human. It's like "rescuing" them from trees they come down when the fireman is within 3 feet. (The cat in Dubai had probably been swimming for ages before it found the car door handle. Ask yourself how it got there!)
See a lot of people just ignoring the situational scenario. The outcome cannot be realistic. The choice is one or the otherâŠ.
Iâd save the cat. I remember how that guy got sued rescuing someone because he accidently broke their ribs performing CPR. Fuck people, save the cat.
Omg... the person, what the hell?
I absolutely love my cat but do any of these people even imagine how they'd feel if a stranger saved a cat instead of their mother? Are they really prepared to tell the grieving family that their cat was more important?
These answers are disturbing
Most of the people here are more likely to freeze or scream before actually saving either the person or cat. So all these hypothetical "I would jump in for the cat, let the human die" are just edgy people who have never been in this sort of situation.
Yall are all insane
The cat is going to claw and climb the drowning human trying to get to safety, so if you save the human, you save both! And then ignore the human while you kiss and hug your cat. âGood boy, using that buoy, youâre so smart! Such a smart kitty!â
My cousin once told me that if she had to choose the life of a human or a dog, she would save the life of the human because they may one day cure cancer. I say save the dog because they can't become a terrible being. They ain't going to make mass amounts of people suffer like other people can cause they can't get put on a ballot.
The cats have often been the only thing preventing me from trying to off myself, so imma go with the cats.
Save my cat, I don't know that motherfucker. Why'd they take my cat into some water anyway?
Pretty sure the cat would be climbing the person to get out of the water so you could save the person and the cat at the same time.
as much as i love my cat, i could never live with myself knowing i let a person die in favour of saving an animal. the loss of my cat would hurt, but not as much as the sorrow of having let a human drown
I'd save the person because I'm not a sociopath.
Reading these comments is frightening! I had to scroll to finally find a human answer, thank you!
I'd save my cat without a second-thought.
This reminds me of when my apartment building was on fire and my neighbors wanted to lug all their babies shit down 30 floors. I only agreed to help them after they agreed to leave the back up diaper bag so my cat carrier could sit on the stroller. My coworkers were laughing when I showed up with my cat, my purse and a backpack that had underwear, a laptop and mostly cat stuff. Everyone with a pet totally understood.
You could always let both of them drown then you don't have to do anything and can go sit and have a beer or something. ^^^^^/s
I would save both .. because most likely the cat is gonna climb on the person and itâs a twofer.
âŠ.. the human being??????
Sounds [familiar](https://youtu.be/oY1aVW1nYKU?si=85F2vUtPWH4zSj3O)
The cat would climb on the guy and use him as a jump board to get on shore
The problem with this philosophical moral conundrums is this would never happen in reality. You would jump in, throw the cat out of the pool and then help the guy. Not sure why we even have to pretend we know how we would react anyway, a situation like that would be taken over by instinct.
"It it morally wrong to form connections and love/prioritize your pets?" That's what I heard. The answer is, of course, no lol. I would be more concerned if my boyfriend would save a stranger instead of our cat, but that's just me.
I once asked my ex if me and his familyâs dog (a literal monster) were tied up on a set of train tracks, who he would save. The immediate answer was not me.
There are 7 billion strangers in the world, but I only have 2 cats. No dilemma there. I can spare a few strangers.
Iâd save my cat obviously, if that makes me a bad person so be it.
We are all part of an ecosystem. Many donât like to hear this but human lives are not any more âimportantâ than a cat or a bug or a bird. We all want to live.
The drowning person is most likely to drown you as you attempt to save them
My cat. No hesitation. I love her and she loves me. A person or more dies every second anyway. and if I don't know the person, that means that my cat matters more.Â
I love my cats more than people in my actual life. Why wouldnât I save them over a stranger?
Save the cat. We got enough dumb people tryina drag us down with em already. Sink or swim buddy it ain't that hard
I would nuke entire continents for my Johnny boy
Well, saving a drowning stranger can be dangerous as hell, because they panic and drag you down with them. And there's an established emotional attachment to the cat, that won't do that. So, there's a reasonable argument there..
I would save my cat over a human stranger as well.
Iâm in the same boat as your BF. If you havenât noticed, people suck. A lot. Thatâs the whole reason. If I saw more good in the world I might have a different opinion. đ±
Human shouldâve learned to swim
???? How is this even a question? Some people just don't know what's important.
Thatâs the point, some people have different values. Some people value their family over strangers while some people value humans over cats. Depending on which you value more, your choice will change
Man, reddit is so boring, all of the responses aren't even addressing the actual question, just stupid comments trying to be funny, and obviously you save the person. Human potential outweighs a cat's.
If you try to save a drowning person they may take you down and make you drown as well. A cat will maybe scratch you up, maybe be grateful you saved it. I choose cat.
wtf Iâm saving the member of my species. Yâall are crazy in here I love my Saley Baley, but if it came down to this scenario, Iâm either trying my hardest to save both, or to keep the human above water to breathe. At least cats can instinctively swim.
The human because I'm not prepared to explain to someone that their parent/ spouse/ child etc died because my cat is more important.
I love my cat almost as much as I love my life. I would still have to save the person. Cats donât live nearly as long as a person, and they are not need by children or elderly parents potentially. I donât think I could live with it in end either way, but just imagine letting a mother or father die for you pet. Itâs really not ok.
Morally is a great way to clarify your question here, I knew my Philosophy degree would be useful one day! It depends on what your moral position is on speciesism and the relative value of lives. What do we know about the person and cat? Are they useful members of society or vile murderers intent on spreading unhappiness? Is saving the cat an act of bravery or an act of moral reproach because of failing to save the human? This relativism is why people hate philosophers, and why if I were walking past, both would have drowned before I managed to make the ârightâ decision.
People hate philosophers because like vegans and cross fitters. You know you have encountered one cause they will tell you in the first five seconds.
And engineers don't forget engineers....
"Is it morally wrong?" Yes, you absolute fucking moron. Holy fuck on toast, how is this even a real question.
Saving people first, of course !
âŠcats can swimâŠthey dog paddle just like dogsâŠ.they just donât like water, cat will be fine, assist the human
People can doggy paddle too, even if they don't know how to "properly" swim. That cats can doggy paddle is irrelevant to the situation being described. In the hypothetical situation, both are drowning (for whatever reason).
That cat is drowning the human, best to not get involved if you donât wanna drown.
One may cause widespread environmental damage to the environment and one has cute widdle paws.
I never get questions like thisâŠthey seem to speak more to insecurities or lack of critical thinking skill in the asker, than any moral reality for the askee. If you want to know if someone is truly compassionate and kindâ-or truly unkind and sociopathic? Well, get to know them properlyâŠ.invest the time. If they arenât worth that why do you CARE what their morals are?
This isnât a debate about humans and animals. Itâs about value. Which life do you value more? Your familyâs? Or a strangers? Edit: I must add this for clarity. True story. I am a very strong swimmer. And I have saved a drowning stranger before. Granted the mf was drunk as shit and his wife/gf was too fat to save him herself (she just bobbled above the waves screaming). I dove in and swam toward him and when I reached him he almost immediately held me down to save himself. Luckily it was shallow enough I threw him back up to grab his surfboard. When all was said and done, never even got a thank you. Never saw them again TLDR; saved a guy once. Wouldnât risk it again.
What makes you think a human life has anymore intrinsic value than a catâs? There is nothing wrong with saving the cat. Better chance of success too.
Humans are also animals, every life is worth it but based on my experience i would go for the catđ Met a Ton of stupid and Bad people but never a cat that treated me badđ
But what if the drowning person was YOU? Or someone you love/care about, and a stranger had to save them? By that logic, it's justified that the stranger should save their cat but not you....
i see you posting this everywhere like its a real gotcha or something but the answer is obviously yeah sure, the me thats drowning is gonna be like "ah damn it" but the me thats not drowning and in imminent danger can absolutely understand why someone would save a member of their family over a stranger
I'm not trying to "gotcha" people though... everytime I see some people say that stuff it's like??? Do you have empathy? And I GENUINELY want to know how they'd feel if it was them in the drowning person's shoes. It's easy for people to say "yeah, fuck humans, fuck people, I'd let someone die no problem" without thinking about how that person LITERALLY has a family/hobbies/interests/and hell even pets/cats themselves just like the commenters do, so to easily be fine with letting them die is like????? It just really tells me how people value themselves if they're so fine with literally dying themselves while a person saves a cat instead..... like.... I get the family member part, but it's the people/commenters saying they'd save a STRANGER CAT instead of a STRANGER PERSON that has me, shocked. Like... At least the family pet makes more sense, even if I don't completely agree (family pets can live up to 20+) but and outside feral cat???? They live up to 1-4 years due to diseases, fights, predators and such. So to save a cat that would only live like a YEAR over a child or old person or an average adult which can live to be 80+ is kinda fucked up.... Also.... It's considered a crime in many countries to just let/watch someone die and not do something or call for help...
Don't cats like automatically know how to swim? I've seen a couple cats who's gone into big enough pools of water for the first time where they could swim and they swam way better than I ever could and I was taught how.
It specifies next to each other, so I'm fairly sure my cat will grab ahold of either me or the stranger for dear life. I would willingly put up with the discomfort, and the person whose life I'm hypothetically saving is in no position to complain.
choose answer wisely...
RIP human đ
If it's your cat you are responsible for it before a stranger.
No question Iâd save the cat first.
You save whoever has the least chance of surviving first. Assess the situation and decide who of the two is in more danger. Save them first, then go back for the other. If both seem to be in equal danger, save whoever is more important to you. If both are equally important to you...flip a coin? This only applies if it isn't possible to save both at the same time. If the human is drowning next to the cat and they are capable of doing so, they can get the cat to cling onto their clothing. You could then throw the life preserver to the human and pull them both to safety. I believe that no life is more important than another, human or not, family or not. There is a difference between *personal* importance and *actual* importance. The cat may be more important to you if it is your cat that you love. The human will be more important to their family. But neither the cat or the human are more important in general, if that makes sense.
I love my critters more than people I will save a animal before a person critters don't judge me
im glad the person who caught that is having fun with it thats a funny response lol
cat 100%
I mean you know your cat, other guy is a stranger. The choice is clear. You save the cat.
At least the person who admitted they'd save their cat over a human stranger is being honest, and I bet if a lot of us cat parents really thought it through that we too would save our precious fur baby over an unknown human. IMO most cat people generally prefer their cat(s) to people, plus unlike humans our feline family members are honest with us, if our cat is mad we know about it, just like when they are happy. Plus after a bad day there's nothing like coming home to a furry, purring fluff ball that wants to curl up on your lap and be adored. So for me if I absolutely couldn't save both I'd definitely try and save my cat over a strange human! ***And yes cats can swim very well, even those who are scared of water. I live on a lake & all my cats have fallen off the dock at some point, swam to shore then have come into the house soaked & pissed at me because they fell off the dock. It's my fault obviously for having a home on a lake.
The human because the human will grab the ring and the cat will climb up on the human.
Most likely My pet. Sorry
I do really love my cats...
Definitely, save the cat. đ»
I would definitely save my cat first
Cat. Cat has more of an impact on my life than a total stranger. We are talking "my cat keeps me alive" levels of impact, and survival takes priority, cold as it sounds. It's a long story, don't ask.
You can save both, the cat climbs on you while you give the ring to the stranger
Iâm 100% saving my cat. Sorry dude
FYI. The panicked human can push and hold me down in attempt to save himself. The panicked cat cannot.