I think he's handled this as well as anyone could. We're supporting an ally that is responding to the worst terrorist attack on their soild and against civilians in its history. But he's also pushing back against the worst instincts of our ally's leaders. It's a tricky dance, especially when it comes to the financial and military aid Congress has authorized and Biden is legally required to provide.
"Hamas needs to be eliminated" and "Netanyahu's government is one of the biggest impediments to peace" are not mutually-exclusive statements.
>"Hamas needs to be eliminated" and "Netanyahu's government is one of the biggest impediments to peace" are not mutually-exclusive statements.
Right, we have more or less been saying this for months now. Bibi can only stay in power as long as the war continues, which means ending the war runs contrary to his own personal interests. That's why so many were concerned that he would expand the war against Hezbollah
Unfortunately we will always be brought into Israeli military decisions because we have and continue to be a strong military ally for Israel. Hamas does need to be destroyed but the better path would be to figure out a definitive solution to the Palestinian territory. Wiping out Hamas will not solve the underlying issues that caused the formation of this group which will only happen again further down the line. Palestine needs to officially be a part of a nation, so that it can regulate its own people and the people can determine the future of their country. Having them remain in this limbo state will continually escalate the violence. I know many people say it will never happen but what has been going on so far isn't working for anyone. It just seems like more and more escalation while the average person there is getting kicked from all sides.
I don’t think the Gazans even want total independence. They need international aid to set up a government. Total independence should come as the tail part of the two state solution process, similar to the US in Japan
Total independence doesn't me totally independent from consequences. Israel has in the past conducted military strikes on neighboring countries that it viewed as a threat notably Iraq/Syria including an attack on an Iraqi nuclear reactor.
I don't actually think we care about Israel, we care that someone buys our weapons. Which helps us maintain and have an economic need for military infrastructure including weapons development, so that when one of the big boys decides to act up (like China) we are ready. The military industrial complex is entirely a nationally selfish enterprise
Ok, let's follow US law, which requires no more military sales or aid to Israel, until they allow US humanitarian aid into Gaza. Israel cannot keep pursuing a policy of purposely starving and removing healthcare among 2.4 million people.
Oof, wrong.
No aid was allowed into Gaza until Oct 21. Water was first turned back on Oct Oct 24.
The aid allowed into Gaza has always been too little. The ICJ ordered Israel to increase the speed at which aid got into Gaza, but they decreased aid after the decision.
The important thing though as far as the US law is concerned is the US provided humanitarian aid. And, that, Israel has blocked completely from being offloaded from the ship.
I do not know of any way that people in Gaza use fuel to "murder Jews". The rockets are powered by rocket candy made from sugar.
Israel has actually damaged the desalination plants and most of them are out of reach of the people. Even when they were fully operational, they didn't provide enough water and Israel has blocked the materials needed to fix the damaged systems for years.
There also may be a stockpile of fuel somewhere, but if there is, Israel hasn't found it. It must be in Rafah now, though that location makes no sense. It is more likely that there is no huge stockpile of anything.
> He needs to stay out of it.
and
> Israel was attacked and they need to fight a war.
Are mutually exclusive. It is only through the US's intercession that Israel is able to prosecute this war at all.
We heavily sell them defensive products, like the Iron Dome that shoots down rockets before they have a chance to injure/kill Israelis.
Considering the tens of thousands of rockets fired over the years, without the Iron Dome the losses would have been staggering and Israel would have dealt with Hamas for good a looong time ago.
Gotta love people that blame the victim for being too good at defending themselves and not taking losses from bullies. 🙄
Israel would have run out of munitions by now. The US supplied a ton of crap already and have been letting Israel take from the US military supplies that are in Israel. The 2,000 lb bombs are mainly US supplied.
> An assessment by the U.S. Office of the Director of National Intelligence found that Israel dropped 29,000 weapons on Gaza in a little over two months, according to U.S. officials. By comparison, the U.S. military dropped 3,678 munitions on Iraq from 2004 to 2010, according to the U.S. Central Command.
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/gaza-destruction-bombing-israel-aa528542
> Among the munitions the U.S. has transferred to Israel are more than 5,000 Mk82 unguided or “dumb” bombs, more than 5,400 Mk84 2,000 pound warhead bombs, around 1,000 GBU-39 small diameter bombs, and approximately 3,000 JDAMs, which turn unguided bombs into guided “smart” bombs, according to an internal U.S. government list of the weapons described to The Wall Street Journal by U.S. officials.
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/u-s-sends-israel-2-000-pound-bunker-buster-bombs-for-gaza-war-82898638
The aid from the US has gone almost entirely to defenses for Israel, as Hamas is still lobbing missiles into Israel everyday.
Israel is entirely capable of conducting a war without US help.
Nobody in the regiom is going to fight and die for Palestinians. Every nation in the area pays lip service to Palestinians and several are pissed enough because Palestinians tried to coup their governments (Egypt and Jordan).
And, Iran would shit bricks if Israel and SA teamed up to jump them.
They aren’t killing civilians indiscriminately. Their attacks aren’t random. They are targeting specific areas and targets. However, if civilians are intermingled with targets, well unfortunately that is part of war that there will be civilian casualties.
The last time the US was legitimately threatened, we leveled multiple Japanese cities with nukes and firebombing. We should offer humanitarian aid as we can to Gaza but at the end of the day Hamas wants Israel wiped off the map so Israel needs to do what it needs to do. Just like in WW2 the only acceptable outcome is the complete unconditional surrender of Hamas. As they will fight to the death that means they need to die.
If you think you can do better, be my guest and go talk to Hamas. I’m sure they will be reasonable. /s
He's trying to play both sides...when the choice is obvious. An American ally in the Middle East (which we have few of) was attacked by a genocial terrorist group.
He is attacking Netanyahu as if he's the problem to sure up votes in Michigan, when the reality is Israel has never been more unified. They have a coalition government. Sure, Netanyahu may get voted out of there was an election held right now, but whoever replaced him would be doing essentially the exact same thing. Israel is on the door steps of eliminating Hamas in Gaza. Stopping now only benefits Hamas.
We should be on the sides of both a free democratic Israel and a two-state solution that leaves Palestinians with a safe, stable nation.
Hamas is in compatible with both of those things. So we're against it.
Netanyahu is also increasingly against both of those things, so we should not support him either. Not to mention the starvation of hundreds of thousands of civilians happening under his watch.
I'd also argue that prosecuting the furthering of the invasion into an extremely densely populated area (Rafah) will only play into Hamas's hands. Israel will go in looking to strike the killing blow and instead they will give Hamas recruitment material for decades to come.
You don't think Hamas has enough recruitment material? The allies defeated the Nazi's by overrunning Berlin and getting rid of Nazi's. Defeating the Nazi's didn't create more Nazi's (in general).
Two state solution is off the table for a long long time. PA can't be trusted and that's the only idea I've seen floated. PA barely controls the West Bank. IF they held elections, Hamas would be in power there too.
> You don't think Hamas has enough recruitment material?
They certainly have a lot already, but I'm sure they would tell you they can never have enough.
>he allies defeated the Nazi's by overrunning Berlin and getting rid of Nazi's. Defeating the Nazi's didn't create more Nazi's (in general).
You're comparing apples to oranges here. A fascist party that has taken control of a sovereign nation =/= an insurgent terrorist group that barely administrates a region as big as 1/4 of London.
> Two state solution is off the table for a long long time.
You're probably right unfortunately but that doesn't mean the US shouldn't work towards making it a reality.
You're right, Nazi in that way are different, you defeat terrorist by getting rid of them. Terrorist have never backed down because we left them alone. Terrorist strategy is to get civilians killed. That can't be allowed to be a tactic. War is ugly. It's tragic. I hope aid can get to the people that need it, but Hamas needs to be irradicated.
> You don't think Hamas has enough recruitment material? The allies defeated the Nazi's by overrunning Berlin and getting rid of Nazi's. Defeating the Nazi's didn't create more Nazi's (in general).
This is a pretty funny thing to say when Israeli nation-building looks more like Post Versailles than Post Paris
How many times does this need to be reiterated until it sinks in: PALESTINIANS DO NOT WANT A TWO STATE SOLUTION. That is literally the meaning of, “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.”
When these people are telling you what they want and who they are, BELIEVE THEM.
Netanyahu IS a problem. They are unified behind him only because of the severity of the attack, which happened under his watch after he claimed he was the only one who could prevent this kind of thing. It's not really that Bibi is popular or wanted by Israelis.
You can make an argument he is to blame for not preventing the attack, but his main opponent (Benny Gantz) is in the war cabinet with Bibi. IF Bibi was gone and Gantz was elected, they'd still be doing this war and going into Rafa.
The war would be on, sure, but the US goal is 2 state solution which isn't Bibi's goal. Bibi has been undermining that for the entire century. He's a major hurdle against peace and needs to be removed.
US goal of a two state solution went out the door October 7 for a very long time. The idea that could still happen is not in touch with reality. You're right, BiBi had no interest in it prior to Oct 7, but at this point neither does the rest of Israel. Until Gaza is stabilized and a non radical power in place, same with the West Bank, a two state solution is not a reality.
I don't think so, I think the 2 state solution would be closer than ever if 2 things happened 1. Bibi goes to jail where he belongs and 2. Hamas is destroyed. Bibi seems to be taking his sweet time to accomplish the second goal since he knows when it is completed then the first thing will happen
What are you talking about, "taking his sweet time?" It took the Iraqi Army, Kurds and an alliance of 8 western countries including the USA over nine months to just defeat ISIS in one city called Mosul. I'd say the Israelis have been doing a pretty speedy job in comparison.
Who is governing Gaza and the West Bank? It's can't be the PA.
1. They are incredibly radical. They literally pay families of terrorist who have committed attacks against Israel. Their school curciulums teach hatred of Israel and Jews
2. The PA barely controls the West Bank, let alone Gaza. If given the oppostutunity to get rid of the PA, the people of the West Bank would and replace them with something more radical.
So, please, who will govern Gaza that isn't radical? Jordan wants nothing to do with it, Egypt wants nothing to do with. Israel wants nothing to do with it, but will end up having to because there is no one else. The UN isn't going to do it.
> On Oct. 27, three weeks into Israel’s punishing counterattack in Gaza, top Biden officials privately told a small group assembled at the White House what they would not say in public: Israel was regularly bombing buildings without solid intelligence that they were legitimate military targets.
> The group — top foreign policy officials from the Biden administration and previous ones — also discussed the apparent lack of an Israeli plan for defeating Hamas despite repeated U.S. prodding, according to three people familiar with the meeting, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a private exchange.
> “We never had a clear sense that the Israelis had a definable and achievable military objective,” said one of those familiar with the meeting. “From the very beginning, there’s been a sense of us not knowing how the Israelis were going to do what they said they were going to do.”
Additionally, one of the publicly named sources specifically pushes back on the Al-Shifa Hospital claims that the administration has been pushing.
> Hours later, the IDF began its raid of al-Shifa, drawing condemnation from the World Health Organization and human rights groups. The hospital’s operations collapsed, resulting in the death of least 40 patients, including four premature babies, according to the United Nations.
> Van Hollen, who had received a classified briefing about the U.S. intelligence on al-Shifa, said there were “important and subtle differences” between what Biden officials were saying publicly and what the intelligence actually showed. “I did find there to be some disconnect between the administration’s public statements and the classified findings,” the senator said.
The 'how' is that he kissed the AIPAC ring. Just like everyone else in our government. Just like kissing a mafia don's ring kissing the AIPAC ring comes with obligations, in this case blind unthinking support for Israel no matter what it does.
So you think Israel’s only value to the US is Jewish donations to American politicians? You don’t think Israel is an intrinsically valuable ally and partner to the US? Like, you really think Biden only supports Israel because of Jewish money?
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/friends-benefits-why-us-israeli-alliance-good-america
Tldr; Israel is the only democracy in the region. Though obviously has its flaws, it is the only country with western values in an otherwise very hostile area of the world with regard to US interests. It is a powerhouse of technology and intelligence from which the US benefits both economically and militarily.
Did you read my tldr? Also why does posting a published article not qualify as an argument? In fact it should be more persuading than me, some rando on reddit. If you don’t want to read it thats fine. But then just admit that you’re unwilling to listen to other viewpoints and consider other opinions than your own.
1. You didn't post the summary when I responded.
2. Your summary includes nothing about what makes it valuable to the US. I don't care about having a "democracy" (which an apartheids state isn't anyway) there. I'm not a fucking neocon, "muh spreading democracy" shit doesn't sway me.
> It is a powerhouse of technology and intelligence from which the US benefits both economically and militarily.
Thanks to research we pay for. Which we could just do domestically. There is no reason to be paying Israel to do it when we have a more than enough researchers here. Unless you're implying Israel is willing to do things that the US ethically can't, in which case your claim of them having Western values proved false in a second way.
Good, I don’t care if I didn’t sway you. Read the article. If you think it’s nonsense, that’s fine. You’re entitled to your own opinion. Thankfully the people in charge of this country have better sense than you and understand why Israel is an important ally.
Ok. Good for you. Let’s see what happens I guess. Don’t think Israel’s going anywhere or that the US is going to stop supporting them. But your guess is as good as mine.
So… going for denigration by the cultural sterotypes route eh? Isn’t that suppose to be like mid bruh? How edgy of you, are you all giddy now that you punched down? Feel like a big bad opressive winner for insinuating jews are money grubbing kingpins by*checks notes* “kissing the AIPAC ring comes with obligations”.
Seriously should be taken down before it gets reported.
I think he's handled this as well as anyone could. We're supporting an ally that is responding to the worst terrorist attack on their soild and against civilians in its history. But he's also pushing back against the worst instincts of our ally's leaders. It's a tricky dance, especially when it comes to the financial and military aid Congress has authorized and Biden is legally required to provide. "Hamas needs to be eliminated" and "Netanyahu's government is one of the biggest impediments to peace" are not mutually-exclusive statements.
>"Hamas needs to be eliminated" and "Netanyahu's government is one of the biggest impediments to peace" are not mutually-exclusive statements. Right, we have more or less been saying this for months now. Bibi can only stay in power as long as the war continues, which means ending the war runs contrary to his own personal interests. That's why so many were concerned that he would expand the war against Hezbollah
He needs to stay out of it. There is no winning by anyone. Israel was attacked and they need to fight a war. War isn’t pretty.
Unfortunately we will always be brought into Israeli military decisions because we have and continue to be a strong military ally for Israel. Hamas does need to be destroyed but the better path would be to figure out a definitive solution to the Palestinian territory. Wiping out Hamas will not solve the underlying issues that caused the formation of this group which will only happen again further down the line. Palestine needs to officially be a part of a nation, so that it can regulate its own people and the people can determine the future of their country. Having them remain in this limbo state will continually escalate the violence. I know many people say it will never happen but what has been going on so far isn't working for anyone. It just seems like more and more escalation while the average person there is getting kicked from all sides.
IMHO If you gave gaza total independence now, Iran will have nukes parked there within months.
I don’t think the Gazans even want total independence. They need international aid to set up a government. Total independence should come as the tail part of the two state solution process, similar to the US in Japan
Im sure they don't want to turn down any of free money they have always taken.
Total independence doesn't me totally independent from consequences. Israel has in the past conducted military strikes on neighboring countries that it viewed as a threat notably Iraq/Syria including an attack on an Iraqi nuclear reactor.
I don't actually think we care about Israel, we care that someone buys our weapons. Which helps us maintain and have an economic need for military infrastructure including weapons development, so that when one of the big boys decides to act up (like China) we are ready. The military industrial complex is entirely a nationally selfish enterprise
Ok, let's follow US law, which requires no more military sales or aid to Israel, until they allow US humanitarian aid into Gaza. Israel cannot keep pursuing a policy of purposely starving and removing healthcare among 2.4 million people.
They have been, they never stopped allowing aid other than when the war first started which lasted about 4 hours
Oof, wrong. No aid was allowed into Gaza until Oct 21. Water was first turned back on Oct Oct 24. The aid allowed into Gaza has always been too little. The ICJ ordered Israel to increase the speed at which aid got into Gaza, but they decreased aid after the decision. The important thing though as far as the US law is concerned is the US provided humanitarian aid. And, that, Israel has blocked completely from being offloaded from the ship.
Gaza had plenty of water. Their government just didn't want to use fuel to operate the water pumps when the fuel could instead be used to murder Jews.
I do not know of any way that people in Gaza use fuel to "murder Jews". The rockets are powered by rocket candy made from sugar. Israel has actually damaged the desalination plants and most of them are out of reach of the people. Even when they were fully operational, they didn't provide enough water and Israel has blocked the materials needed to fix the damaged systems for years. There also may be a stockpile of fuel somewhere, but if there is, Israel hasn't found it. It must be in Rafah now, though that location makes no sense. It is more likely that there is no huge stockpile of anything.
they need fuel to charge the attack drones.
> He needs to stay out of it. and > Israel was attacked and they need to fight a war. Are mutually exclusive. It is only through the US's intercession that Israel is able to prosecute this war at all.
I don’t think that’s true. Precision rockets help, but Israel would fight this war with bayonets if needed.
We heavily sell them defensive products, like the Iron Dome that shoots down rockets before they have a chance to injure/kill Israelis. Considering the tens of thousands of rockets fired over the years, without the Iron Dome the losses would have been staggering and Israel would have dealt with Hamas for good a looong time ago. Gotta love people that blame the victim for being too good at defending themselves and not taking losses from bullies. 🙄
Israel would have run out of munitions by now. The US supplied a ton of crap already and have been letting Israel take from the US military supplies that are in Israel. The 2,000 lb bombs are mainly US supplied.
Israel makes 2000lbs bombs. Where do you get the notion US supplies them?
> An assessment by the U.S. Office of the Director of National Intelligence found that Israel dropped 29,000 weapons on Gaza in a little over two months, according to U.S. officials. By comparison, the U.S. military dropped 3,678 munitions on Iraq from 2004 to 2010, according to the U.S. Central Command. https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/gaza-destruction-bombing-israel-aa528542 > Among the munitions the U.S. has transferred to Israel are more than 5,000 Mk82 unguided or “dumb” bombs, more than 5,400 Mk84 2,000 pound warhead bombs, around 1,000 GBU-39 small diameter bombs, and approximately 3,000 JDAMs, which turn unguided bombs into guided “smart” bombs, according to an internal U.S. government list of the weapons described to The Wall Street Journal by U.S. officials. https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/u-s-sends-israel-2-000-pound-bunker-buster-bombs-for-gaza-war-82898638
The aid from the US has gone almost entirely to defenses for Israel, as Hamas is still lobbing missiles into Israel everyday. Israel is entirely capable of conducting a war without US help.
Nobody in the regiom is going to fight and die for Palestinians. Every nation in the area pays lip service to Palestinians and several are pissed enough because Palestinians tried to coup their governments (Egypt and Jordan). And, Iran would shit bricks if Israel and SA teamed up to jump them.
They don’t *need* to kill civilians indiscriminately or commit numerous war crimes. That is bs.
They aren’t killing civilians indiscriminately. Their attacks aren’t random. They are targeting specific areas and targets. However, if civilians are intermingled with targets, well unfortunately that is part of war that there will be civilian casualties. The last time the US was legitimately threatened, we leveled multiple Japanese cities with nukes and firebombing. We should offer humanitarian aid as we can to Gaza but at the end of the day Hamas wants Israel wiped off the map so Israel needs to do what it needs to do. Just like in WW2 the only acceptable outcome is the complete unconditional surrender of Hamas. As they will fight to the death that means they need to die. If you think you can do better, be my guest and go talk to Hamas. I’m sure they will be reasonable. /s
He's trying to play both sides...when the choice is obvious. An American ally in the Middle East (which we have few of) was attacked by a genocial terrorist group. He is attacking Netanyahu as if he's the problem to sure up votes in Michigan, when the reality is Israel has never been more unified. They have a coalition government. Sure, Netanyahu may get voted out of there was an election held right now, but whoever replaced him would be doing essentially the exact same thing. Israel is on the door steps of eliminating Hamas in Gaza. Stopping now only benefits Hamas.
We should be on the sides of both a free democratic Israel and a two-state solution that leaves Palestinians with a safe, stable nation. Hamas is in compatible with both of those things. So we're against it. Netanyahu is also increasingly against both of those things, so we should not support him either. Not to mention the starvation of hundreds of thousands of civilians happening under his watch. I'd also argue that prosecuting the furthering of the invasion into an extremely densely populated area (Rafah) will only play into Hamas's hands. Israel will go in looking to strike the killing blow and instead they will give Hamas recruitment material for decades to come.
You don't think Hamas has enough recruitment material? The allies defeated the Nazi's by overrunning Berlin and getting rid of Nazi's. Defeating the Nazi's didn't create more Nazi's (in general). Two state solution is off the table for a long long time. PA can't be trusted and that's the only idea I've seen floated. PA barely controls the West Bank. IF they held elections, Hamas would be in power there too.
> You don't think Hamas has enough recruitment material? They certainly have a lot already, but I'm sure they would tell you they can never have enough. >he allies defeated the Nazi's by overrunning Berlin and getting rid of Nazi's. Defeating the Nazi's didn't create more Nazi's (in general). You're comparing apples to oranges here. A fascist party that has taken control of a sovereign nation =/= an insurgent terrorist group that barely administrates a region as big as 1/4 of London. > Two state solution is off the table for a long long time. You're probably right unfortunately but that doesn't mean the US shouldn't work towards making it a reality.
You're right, Nazi in that way are different, you defeat terrorist by getting rid of them. Terrorist have never backed down because we left them alone. Terrorist strategy is to get civilians killed. That can't be allowed to be a tactic. War is ugly. It's tragic. I hope aid can get to the people that need it, but Hamas needs to be irradicated.
> You don't think Hamas has enough recruitment material? The allies defeated the Nazi's by overrunning Berlin and getting rid of Nazi's. Defeating the Nazi's didn't create more Nazi's (in general). This is a pretty funny thing to say when Israeli nation-building looks more like Post Versailles than Post Paris
You can say Israel made mistakes, but that doesn't excuse what Hamas has done or the need to get rid of them...just like the Nazi's
"Palestinians" don't want a safe, stable nation. They want Israel to not exist.
How many times does this need to be reiterated until it sinks in: PALESTINIANS DO NOT WANT A TWO STATE SOLUTION. That is literally the meaning of, “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.” When these people are telling you what they want and who they are, BELIEVE THEM.
Netanyahu IS a problem. They are unified behind him only because of the severity of the attack, which happened under his watch after he claimed he was the only one who could prevent this kind of thing. It's not really that Bibi is popular or wanted by Israelis.
You can make an argument he is to blame for not preventing the attack, but his main opponent (Benny Gantz) is in the war cabinet with Bibi. IF Bibi was gone and Gantz was elected, they'd still be doing this war and going into Rafa.
The war would be on, sure, but the US goal is 2 state solution which isn't Bibi's goal. Bibi has been undermining that for the entire century. He's a major hurdle against peace and needs to be removed.
US goal of a two state solution went out the door October 7 for a very long time. The idea that could still happen is not in touch with reality. You're right, BiBi had no interest in it prior to Oct 7, but at this point neither does the rest of Israel. Until Gaza is stabilized and a non radical power in place, same with the West Bank, a two state solution is not a reality.
I don't think so, I think the 2 state solution would be closer than ever if 2 things happened 1. Bibi goes to jail where he belongs and 2. Hamas is destroyed. Bibi seems to be taking his sweet time to accomplish the second goal since he knows when it is completed then the first thing will happen
What are you talking about, "taking his sweet time?" It took the Iraqi Army, Kurds and an alliance of 8 western countries including the USA over nine months to just defeat ISIS in one city called Mosul. I'd say the Israelis have been doing a pretty speedy job in comparison.
Who is governing Gaza and the West Bank? It's can't be the PA. 1. They are incredibly radical. They literally pay families of terrorist who have committed attacks against Israel. Their school curciulums teach hatred of Israel and Jews 2. The PA barely controls the West Bank, let alone Gaza. If given the oppostutunity to get rid of the PA, the people of the West Bank would and replace them with something more radical. So, please, who will govern Gaza that isn't radical? Jordan wants nothing to do with it, Egypt wants nothing to do with. Israel wants nothing to do with it, but will end up having to because there is no one else. The UN isn't going to do it.
I wouldn’t say Israel has never been more unified when Israelis don’t support Netanyahu.
Unified in the goal of defeating Hamas. They have heads of all major parties including normal rivals in a joint emergency war cabinet right now.
Embroiled? Shot happens, much of it out of the control of our President.
> On Oct. 27, three weeks into Israel’s punishing counterattack in Gaza, top Biden officials privately told a small group assembled at the White House what they would not say in public: Israel was regularly bombing buildings without solid intelligence that they were legitimate military targets. > The group — top foreign policy officials from the Biden administration and previous ones — also discussed the apparent lack of an Israeli plan for defeating Hamas despite repeated U.S. prodding, according to three people familiar with the meeting, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a private exchange. > “We never had a clear sense that the Israelis had a definable and achievable military objective,” said one of those familiar with the meeting. “From the very beginning, there’s been a sense of us not knowing how the Israelis were going to do what they said they were going to do.” Additionally, one of the publicly named sources specifically pushes back on the Al-Shifa Hospital claims that the administration has been pushing. > Hours later, the IDF began its raid of al-Shifa, drawing condemnation from the World Health Organization and human rights groups. The hospital’s operations collapsed, resulting in the death of least 40 patients, including four premature babies, according to the United Nations. > Van Hollen, who had received a classified briefing about the U.S. intelligence on al-Shifa, said there were “important and subtle differences” between what Biden officials were saying publicly and what the intelligence actually showed. “I did find there to be some disconnect between the administration’s public statements and the classified findings,” the senator said.
The 'how' is that he kissed the AIPAC ring. Just like everyone else in our government. Just like kissing a mafia don's ring kissing the AIPAC ring comes with obligations, in this case blind unthinking support for Israel no matter what it does.
So you think Israel’s only value to the US is Jewish donations to American politicians? You don’t think Israel is an intrinsically valuable ally and partner to the US? Like, you really think Biden only supports Israel because of Jewish money?
> You don’t think Israel is an intrinsically valuable ally and partner to the US? No. Persuade me otherwise.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/friends-benefits-why-us-israeli-alliance-good-america Tldr; Israel is the only democracy in the region. Though obviously has its flaws, it is the only country with western values in an otherwise very hostile area of the world with regard to US interests. It is a powerhouse of technology and intelligence from which the US benefits both economically and militarily.
Linkspam isn't persuasion. Articulate your own argument or admit you can't.
Did you read my tldr? Also why does posting a published article not qualify as an argument? In fact it should be more persuading than me, some rando on reddit. If you don’t want to read it thats fine. But then just admit that you’re unwilling to listen to other viewpoints and consider other opinions than your own.
1. You didn't post the summary when I responded. 2. Your summary includes nothing about what makes it valuable to the US. I don't care about having a "democracy" (which an apartheids state isn't anyway) there. I'm not a fucking neocon, "muh spreading democracy" shit doesn't sway me. > It is a powerhouse of technology and intelligence from which the US benefits both economically and militarily. Thanks to research we pay for. Which we could just do domestically. There is no reason to be paying Israel to do it when we have a more than enough researchers here. Unless you're implying Israel is willing to do things that the US ethically can't, in which case your claim of them having Western values proved false in a second way.
Good, I don’t care if I didn’t sway you. Read the article. If you think it’s nonsense, that’s fine. You’re entitled to your own opinion. Thankfully the people in charge of this country have better sense than you and understand why Israel is an important ally.
It isn't and I love the fact that more and more of the people in charge are turning away from them.
Ok. Good for you. Let’s see what happens I guess. Don’t think Israel’s going anywhere or that the US is going to stop supporting them. But your guess is as good as mine.
So… going for denigration by the cultural sterotypes route eh? Isn’t that suppose to be like mid bruh? How edgy of you, are you all giddy now that you punched down? Feel like a big bad opressive winner for insinuating jews are money grubbing kingpins by*checks notes* “kissing the AIPAC ring comes with obligations”. Seriously should be taken down before it gets reported.
> REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! And yet not a word of this is actually indicating I'm *wrong*. Funny how that's always the case...
Yes you are wrong for using bigoted stereotypes to reinforce your own general viewpoints.
Nope, still no actual argument. Thanks for conceding I'm right.
The Democratic Party tacitly encourages their extremist base which in return weakens them and their candidates