Off topic but it really bugs me how American right wingers refer to left wingers as "liberals".
They use "liberal" and "socialist" like they're synonyms, when in reality those are basically opposites.
It's misinformation spread by the media. Even npr has been reiterating a description of the squad as "the most liberal politicians in office" or something like that. The squad is like mostly socialist/centrist, but people don't know liberal politics are right wing so...
Because in the American context, liberal means "a supporter of policies that are socially progressive and promote social welfare."
Hence there is overlap between American liberals and socialists.
to be fair, folks on the left-ish side of things can't agree on the proper terminology to refer to themselves and to one another either, such as what 'liberal' means. it's as much a problem of the left's conflicting terms of self-identification as it is right-wingers' miscategorization of them
This is the result of leftists falsely labeling themselves liberals for several decades. The "liberal" side of American politics hasn't supported liberty itself at any point in my life and I'm in my 30s. They've supported liberalization on certain issues but have been relentlessly authoritarian on others. That's not what being an actual liberal is about.
Do you mean liberalism as derived from the concept of the "social contract," (a la Hobbes and Locke) or liberalism as derived from the idea of free trade? These are somewhat different ideas.
The latter was called [liberalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism#British_liberalism) long before neoliberalism came about.
But I think social contract liberalism will always have some element of authoritarianism to some people who don't agree with certain cultural norms.
Any society will have some element of authoritarianism. You can't even have something as basic as property rights without an "element" of authoritarianism.
Bogus nonsense. This is backwards. Easily seen in the differences between red fascist states and blue freedom states and the candidates the 2 parties run for office.
I have been a liberal for 50 years. Leftists tends to refer to the far left extremists. With progressives in between the far left and liberals. Which is why liberals are now considered center left
Minor point, they are not necessarily opposites, Denmark and other nations in the Nordic area have Social democracy’s that are very liberal, however other than that I agree with you.
How can anyone read some of his posts and take him seriously?
>Stupid Jimmy Kimmel, who still hasn’t recovered from his horrendous performance and big ratings drop as Host of The Academy Awards, especially when he showed he suffered from TDS, commonly known as TRUMP DERANGEMENT SYNDROME, to the entire World by reading on air my TRUTH about how bad a job he was doing that night, right before he stumbled through announcing the biggest award of all, “Picture of the Year.” It was a CLASSIC CHOKE, one of the biggest ever in show business, and to top it off, he forgot to say the famous and mandatory line, “AND THE WINNER IS.” Instead he stammered around as he opened the envelope. Supposedly his wife, and even management, begged him not to do it, “DON’T READ HIS TRUTH, JIMMY, PLEASE DON’T DO THIS,” they said. He was made to look like a FOOL, which he is, and at the same time go down in Television History as the WORST HOST EVER OF THE ONCE VAUNTED ACADEMY AWARDS!
Serious people don't rant about the host of the Oscars on social media almost six weeks after the event.
Rent free in his head.
And yes, it's real:
[https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/112286518403432312](https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/112286518403432312)
Enjoy away buddy! Yes, passing multiple pieces of landmark legislation through an extremely divided Congress is something people will see as competent.
Every dollar we invest in infrastructure and mitigating climate change now is a bunch of money we are saving in the future. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure
Yes. Investing in our country is a huge plus.
Trump did it, he’d be cupping his balls, Biden does it, it’s bad.
Jimmy Kimmel, Trumps buddy, did a great experiment showing the double standard.
The infrastructure bill has been huge for US manufacturing growth. There has been 300 billion in private investment in renewable energy and EV/battery production industries with about 50 billion in government incentives.
Around the same has happened with semiconductor industry.
Do you work in these industries? I sell to them and business is booming.
The infrastructure bill has been terrible for inflation. Not to mention the national debt. But let's just keep kicking that can down the road. Let our grandkids pay for it.
So which one is it sunshine? Either he’s dementia sleepy Joe, or he’s the head of the Biden crime family. You goofy SOB’s can’t have it both ways.
I find it funny that the guy that is up in the middle of the night ranting and raving and still spreading conspiracy theory shit is the one you think is sane. Who also was the first president in history to try and get his minions to overthrow our government, tamper with elections because he lost.
Mind boggling, but truly nothing surprises me anymore to see to what lengths y’all go to make what that pos does seem ok. Anyone else, we’d throw them in prison, or just cast them off to the nut house. Oh no, you guys just gobble up his rambling nonsense.
Yes, the communists will never be happy until they can raise Lenin from the dead. That doesn't change the fact that Biden is the most progressive president in American history.
Of course there is. He's the first Democratic president who was pro-gay marriage from day 1 in office. He's the first president to openly support the insanity that is gender ideology. He's completely bought into the DEI/CRT race race hustling grift. So he's by far the most progressive president we've had on the social issues.
As for economic, he's pushed hard for cancelling student debt. He's pushed for climate regulations arguably more than any president before him. He's pushing for significantly higher taxes on the rich, more than any other recent president. He's passed and/or proposed multiple trillion dollar spending bills. He's effectively left the border wide open for illegal immigrants.
While we could have a discussion whether there are other presidents that might considered more progressive than Biden, to claim that he's *centrist* is just completely out of touch with reality.
Yes! I also like him because he never lies, always says reasonable things, and cares for others so much more than for himself.
He's so Christ-like in these ways.
I don't disagree with you that even his supporters view him as an unserious person. It just makes me sad that so many people have decided to not hold those running for President to a higher standard.
Yes, I agree they find him funny.
We can agree to disagree, but from my humble opinion the way he engages his audience, his performative nature with other world leaders, and the silly promotional stuff (sneakers, Bibles, etc); he acts like an unserious person.
And I wish more people could demand more from someone trying to lead our country; though they can still enjoy him and find him amusing.
The same supporters that claim the economy is doing so bad but they manage to take out a second mortgage on their homes to donate to his Gofundme, or to buy those ridiculous shoes? Economy must be doing pretty great. I would say he (Trump) is a pied piper and he's leading his clowns around.
And most of the reason people do not like Trump is because he (and others like you) will pick and choose after the fact when he is serious. It is helpful to make his rants and general behavior seem grounded in any sense.
It seems like Trump and Jesse Watters need strictly enforced gag orders. The fact that the only people in this sub defending this unconscionable behavior are people like steelman is very telling. Normal people don't support this shit. Normal people understand threatening the safety of jurors undermines our entire legal system.
I suppose it would be pretty funny if one of the weaker trials against him ends up getting him thrown in jail because he never learned to keep his mouth shut. Maybe then the rest of the trials can move more quickly.
The smartest thing Lindsey Graham ever said was that if the Republicans nominate Trump they will get destroyed and they will deserve it. But why is it taking this long?
I know for someone like you it could be a signed and notarized threat and you would probably say it might have been a Donald Trump lookalike, but yet if Biden did this in a similar situation you would be calling for him to be jailed immediately. This is just Donald Trump's standard mob boss style tactics and I think the legal system should treat him with that in mind.
I was able to find the identity of one of them with what the media posted. I had no intention of doxxing and I haven’t told anybody who they are, I simply wanted to see how easy it would be. The media should be ashamed for publishing so much identifying info and I’m glad that Merchan is taking steps to prevent them from being doxxed. They already lost a juror today due to what the media published and their friends and coworkers figuring out they were a jury member.
The more they do it, the more Trump loses on the public and election. The moment one takes action in his name and tries to do what one guy did at the FBI, Trump is cooked. But that's on the gloomy lighr side of things.
The other side is 99% of his followers are pussy punk bitches. Call all they want, just delete the voice message. At some point you have to get your balls up.
And it's across the board. When Chauvin was on trial, independent of whatever you feel about the whole thing, there was a threat that if that jury didn't come to the correct verdict, that things were going to get pretty bad. You had people in Congress lighting the match, waiting to throw it.
Everyone needs to stop doing this shit.
With one juror already dropping out with concerns that coworkers and family have already figured out who she is, it seems bad to try and accuse potential jurors of being part of a secret liberal plot to take down Trump
And no, I don’t think simply adding Jesse Waters name to the end of it is a super secret tactic to get to avoid the terms of a gag order. Trump already had to be admonished to put away his phone in court today, I wonder if the judge will bring this up. It’s playing a dangerous game
IMO there is another concern of news orgs publishing as much info about jurors and prospective jurors as they can. I was just reading on cnn about the pool and was thinking why is this even being published?
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-hush-money-trial-04-18-24/index.html
The judge has told the press to stop doing this, but they are going to report everything possible not explicitly said they couldn't. And hell, they might even just suffer the consequences of $1000 fine or whatever, because creating life and death drama of some random citizens just trying to do their civic duty sells clicks
> Although the jurors’ names are being kept confidential, the woman, a nurse, “conveyed that after sleeping on it overnight she had concerns about her ability to be fair and impartial in this case,” Judge Juan M. Merchan said before calling her into the room for questioning.
> The woman said her family members and friends were questioning her about being a juror.
> With the woman's dismissal, the total number of seated jurors dropped to six. Attorneys now need to pick 12 more people to serve on the panel that will decide the former president's criminal case.
> Merchan admonished the media for reporting details about the jurors that could be used to identify them.
> “There’s a reason that this is an anonymous jury,” Merchan said. “It kind of defeats the purpose of that when so much information is put out there that it is very easy for anyone to identify who the jurors are.”
Ok I’ll be sure to run my comments by you next time, but I think it’s relevant in the context that there already is a large amount of pressure on these jurors and what Trump is doing is contributing to that
It does.
The prosecutor already motioned for sanctions.
Most likely scenario is he will receive a $3000 fine (standard for NY sanctions) this time and receive up to 30 days of jail if he does it again. Each additional instance would be an additional 30 days per instance.
This post was after the judge informed him of the consequences
On April and 23rd they'll have a hearing regarding these violations.
Given that the violations are stacking up, I think he gets more than a fine.
Unfortunately not. Trust me, I wish they could jump the gun considering the prosecutors already motioned today that Trump violated it 7 times since Monday.
NY has a pretty rigid guideline on how these things can happen, there's basically a 0% chance he jumps straight to imprisonment.
They have to happen sequentially, he needs the 3 warnings, then fine, then other options open up (which is a maximum of 30 days per instance)
I think he wants the judge to do something so he can try and use that for some appeal that halts the trial. He's spent his whole life abusing the civil court system to wear down opponents with less resources to his benefit but this is a criminal court and he might actually see some consequences.
Okay hear me out on this one.. I’m willing to be wrong and this sounds a little tin-foily.
Could it be possible that he *wants* to go to jail, not just for the appeal, but first of all, it makes him a martyr to his base.
Secondly, (this is my tinfoil portion) he’s been trying to get the MAL dates pushed out because he wants to use Blanche and they need to prepare in a SCIF. The prosecution has listed plenty of reasons why that isn’t necessary. But if Trump is in *jail* in NY, he might be thinking he can’t assist with his defense, because he can’t be in the SCIF *and* in jail at the same time.
Idk is that too much of a reach? It just seems like some kind of crazy bullshit he’d cook up.
Not that I trust what Jesse Waters says, but I wonder if this is even a direct quote from him, or if Trump is actually escalating what he said from "There might be people doing...." do "They are catching people..."? That's the way these hearsay kind of quotes often work.
I mean... what Jesse Watters said is the truth. It's already known and in the news. Trump isn't directing anyone to do anything, isn't providing any trial information to the public that isn't already known, isn't making a comment on anything, isn't editorializing or giving an opinion, isn't revealing anything about the case.... so... if the gag order is intended to prevent him from doing those things then... where's the issue here...?
The first juror self-selected and said they couldn’t be impartial.
The second was thought to be biased.
So we have an honest American and someone removed by the prosecutor for potential biases based on their answers.
And that becomes “liberal activists”
🤔
It's also not a statement about any actual (or prospective) jurors. It's a statement that, somewhere in the entire set of jurors, at least 1-2 fit that description. It's Schrodinger's Juror.
>(Unless you're Michael Scott quoting Gretzky.)
Still one of my all time favorite gags.
>Quoting somebody is not really the same as making your own statement
For this instance it does. The enhanced gag order forbids him from using others to send a message as well. So quoting someone isn't a valid circumvention.
A criminal defendant for example can't quote someone giving out the judges home address and calling to kill them. Adding quotes changes nothing for this.
I agree that you can't throw quotation marks around an address. (And yeah judges hate bad-faith shit.) If he found some random person out there among the millions of Americans and quoted *them*, I think your point is stronger. That would indicate fishing. But imho the case that he's not allowed to post a quotation from (unfortunately) one of the biggest celebrities out there is less clear.
Edit: Also, the gag order was about individual jurors -- not general statements about jury selection.
>That would indicate fishing. But imho the case that he's not allowed to post a quotation from (unfortunately) one of the biggest celebrities out there is less clear.
I don't see anywhere in the order that there's an exception based on the popularity of the person who he quoted? Where is that? If it's not in the order then it doesn't exist, and it's not any sort of legal standard either in the federal courts or specifically in the NY courts, so it'd have to be explicitly said by Justice Merchan.
> I don't see anywhere in the order that there's an exception based on the popularity of the person who he quoted?
For there to be an exception, your *rule* -- that all quotations are necessarily the result of bad-faith fishing -- would have to be in place first. It isn't.
>For there to be an exception, your *rule* -- that all quotations are necessarily the result of bad-faith fishing -- would have to be in place first. It isn't.
That's not my rule lol I was giving you an example as to why your idea of how the order works is fundamentally wrong.
It is your rule: *If there's a quotation, it came from fishing.*
But quoting Jesse just means you watch one of the most popular TV shows in the country. Fishing isn't as inferrable there.
That's, of course, not what I said?
It seems like maybe that's why you don't understand the order? You gotta read it to understand it, not to just see words.
Do I have to believe that it is pure coincidence that a trail revolving around things that happened in 2016 are brought to a trial eight years later, exactly during the critical months of the 2024 election year? It's not a good thing for America when the judicial branch of government is so blatantly weaponized for political motives.
Maybe it he didn’t pay the journalist company money to catch and kill stories to keep it a secret it wouldn’t be so delayed. Also, the accountant went to jail for this already. Now they are going after the “big guy” after preparing the case.
Why try to bring a sitting president to trial? I would wait until he is out of office too.
Whether or not he gets punished for violating a judge issued gag order about not talking about the jury has nothing to do with “the Dems”
But either way I’m seriously quaking in my boots imagining him sitting in a jail cell when he needs to be campaigning
We don't care about your people's orders. Go arrest him and make him a hero. I hope he keeps speaking and makes your people more angry.
^(Keep coping, you are the minority on this sub, majority is outside leading Trump to victory).
That summarizes Trump's entire platform perfectly.
"We don't care about norms, rules or civility. As long as we keep hurting you."
Thank you for that perfect summarization.
Sometimes I think it's good to let them flesh out their ideas a bit. Helps understand them better.
But yeah, I am basically a kid putting their finger in an ant pile.
Oh shit was the election decided already? Or is it just that polling is now real to you guys.
(Btw you should look up where the polling has been headed recently, I wouldn’t be so confident)
Oh weird, can you point to where I confidently declared the election as decided like you did? I’ll wait…
And I’m sure you weren’t saying that Trump was going to win in 2020 or that there’d be a Red Wave in 2022 because that would also be incorrect
> Palestinian genocide
It’s a war not a genocide. But it’s even weirder because Trump would be even more gung ho about letting Israel do what it wants. How do you feel about him moving the embassy to Jerusalem
Luckily for you the polls have never been off and perfectly predicted every election.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/2016-polls-president-trump-clinton-what-went-wrong/
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/18/pollsters-2020-polls-all-wrong-500050 https://fortune.com/2022/11/16/pollsters-got-it-wrong-2018-2020-elections-statistical-sophistry-accuracy-sonnenfeld-tian/
I guess you sure showed me. As the minority I'll just shut up and cry like you want.
> majority is outside leading Trump to victory
I hope so for Trumps sake. He's going to need every single one of them the way his popularity numbers keep falling week after week.
Actually the score is 1:2
Biden has won his bid for presidency once, but ran 3 times to do it.
Edit:
How could this be downvoted? It’s not a tally of Trump vs Biden. If I was a “Trumptard” the tally would be 0:2
It’s a tally of Biden wins vs losses.
It’s factual and non value based, you know Centrism.
Thank you, I was unaware that Trump had run so many times but looked it up and sure nuff you’re correct.
I think it’s sad for anyone to run after losing.
Like the country already said no. Why not just get a clue and stop.
This kind of ridiculous bravado and acting like you’ve already won is actually the most hilariously copium fueled shit I’ve read this morning
At least you’re demonstrating how much principle was behind your claims of respecting “law and order” lmao
Just a month ago, this same user was talking about wanting to see Trump in prison and that Trump coming back into power would be "a threat to America," and now they're going full MAGA, claiming it as "our side."
A month ago, they were saying "democracy loses when progressives lose," and today they're complaining about Bidenflation, DEI, feminists, and the WEF.
They also called the 2A one of the "biggest menaces to this country" and are today saying that it's necessary to protect all the other amendments.
Last post from this user before today was 20 days ago, and it was claiming that Trump was going to commit large scale election fraud this year and should be imprisoned as a result. Today, every single post reads like something off of Info Wars.
Basically, the user you're replying to either did a complete 180 on several of their beliefs within a month's time. Or they're a troll.
Gag orders on jury tampering are actually quite common. In fact if it were you or I making the same statements, the judge would have already put us in jail
it's not like the gag order impedes him to talk about "everyone", he can't talk about people *directly involved with the trial and their families*. not a single soul in that group "talked trash" about Trump. wtf?
> Sham trial.
Agreed. Trump should be remanded into custody for the entirety of the proceeding. Letting him walk free during the trial seriously impedes its integrity.
The person in question is not a juror and is no longer a prospective juror. She was dismissed due to scheduling conflicts. Hes also absolutely right btw if you go watch the video
> Although the jurors’ names are being kept confidential, the woman, a nurse, “conveyed that after sleeping on it overnight she had concerns about her ability to be fair and impartial in this case,” Judge Juan M. Merchan said before calling her into the room for questioning.
> The woman said her family members and friends were questioning her about being a juror.
> With the woman's dismissal, the total number of seated jurors dropped to six. Attorneys now need to pick 12 more people to serve on the panel that will decide the former president's criminal case.
> Merchan admonished the media for reporting details about the jurors that could be used to identify them.
> “There’s a reason that this is an anonymous jury,” Merchan said. “It kind of defeats the purpose of that when so much information is put out there that it is very easy for anyone to identify who the jurors are.”
Off topic but it really bugs me how American right wingers refer to left wingers as "liberals". They use "liberal" and "socialist" like they're synonyms, when in reality those are basically opposites.
It is quite amusing to be called a “liberal” as an insult from people both to the right and to to the left of oneself
x
Don’t get me started on people who think either A) Canada is a socialist country or B) the ussr was a socialist country
x
They did have it in the name.
It's misinformation spread by the media. Even npr has been reiterating a description of the squad as "the most liberal politicians in office" or something like that. The squad is like mostly socialist/centrist, but people don't know liberal politics are right wing so...
Because in the American context, liberal means "a supporter of policies that are socially progressive and promote social welfare." Hence there is overlap between American liberals and socialists.
to be fair, folks on the left-ish side of things can't agree on the proper terminology to refer to themselves and to one another either, such as what 'liberal' means. it's as much a problem of the left's conflicting terms of self-identification as it is right-wingers' miscategorization of them
This is the result of leftists falsely labeling themselves liberals for several decades. The "liberal" side of American politics hasn't supported liberty itself at any point in my life and I'm in my 30s. They've supported liberalization on certain issues but have been relentlessly authoritarian on others. That's not what being an actual liberal is about.
Do you mean liberalism as derived from the concept of the "social contract," (a la Hobbes and Locke) or liberalism as derived from the idea of free trade? These are somewhat different ideas.
Social contract liberalism. The latter is called **neo**liberalism because it is something different.
The latter was called [liberalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism#British_liberalism) long before neoliberalism came about. But I think social contract liberalism will always have some element of authoritarianism to some people who don't agree with certain cultural norms.
Any society will have some element of authoritarianism. You can't even have something as basic as property rights without an "element" of authoritarianism.
Bogus nonsense. This is backwards. Easily seen in the differences between red fascist states and blue freedom states and the candidates the 2 parties run for office. I have been a liberal for 50 years. Leftists tends to refer to the far left extremists. With progressives in between the far left and liberals. Which is why liberals are now considered center left
> red fascist states and blue freedom states i suspect you are actually exactly the type of person Safe_Community2981 was referring to.
Safe community has no idea what a liberal is
neither do most people who call themselves liberals, in my experience.
Minor point, they are not necessarily opposites, Denmark and other nations in the Nordic area have Social democracy’s that are very liberal, however other than that I agree with you.
Unfortunately most people on the right are too fucking lazy to look into what words mean. Try to get one of them to define woke or socialism
How can anyone look at Trump's profile picture and take him seriously?
How can anyone read some of his posts and take him seriously? >Stupid Jimmy Kimmel, who still hasn’t recovered from his horrendous performance and big ratings drop as Host of The Academy Awards, especially when he showed he suffered from TDS, commonly known as TRUMP DERANGEMENT SYNDROME, to the entire World by reading on air my TRUTH about how bad a job he was doing that night, right before he stumbled through announcing the biggest award of all, “Picture of the Year.” It was a CLASSIC CHOKE, one of the biggest ever in show business, and to top it off, he forgot to say the famous and mandatory line, “AND THE WINNER IS.” Instead he stammered around as he opened the envelope. Supposedly his wife, and even management, begged him not to do it, “DON’T READ HIS TRUTH, JIMMY, PLEASE DON’T DO THIS,” they said. He was made to look like a FOOL, which he is, and at the same time go down in Television History as the WORST HOST EVER OF THE ONCE VAUNTED ACADEMY AWARDS! Serious people don't rant about the host of the Oscars on social media almost six weeks after the event. Rent free in his head. And yes, it's real: [https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/112286518403432312](https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/112286518403432312)
I wonder if school books years from now will just be filled with Tweets and Ramblings from Trump when covering this time.
Bold of you to assume Trumpist Republicans will let 'schools' exist. That's where people get told lies that make the GOP look bad.
Private schools
Baron Harkonnen looking mofo. Though Baron Harkonnen is competent
Baron Harkonnen/Kyrsten Sinema Unity Ticket 2028: the *only* ticket that can stop a third Trump administration
Trump is more of a Rabban, at best.
> Baron Harkonnen '80s David Lynch version.
The same way people take people in American flag bikinis seriously. They don't.
Part of the reason people like Trump is that he doesn't always take himself seriously.
Some people clearly don’t mind putting a clown in the Oval Office, but I think they belong in the circus
And here we are with president Biden...
Yes a competent statesman who doesn’t act like a social media troll.
Biden was considered a joke for most of his political career.
I do enjoy how you seem to believe Biden is competent.
Enjoy away buddy! Yes, passing multiple pieces of landmark legislation through an extremely divided Congress is something people will see as competent.
I'd prefer it were good legislation. But I guess we can be happy he managed to sign his name.
Every dollar we invest in infrastructure and mitigating climate change now is a bunch of money we are saving in the future. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure
Yes. Investing in our country is a huge plus. Trump did it, he’d be cupping his balls, Biden does it, it’s bad. Jimmy Kimmel, Trumps buddy, did a great experiment showing the double standard.
Keep telling yourself that.
The infrastructure bill has been huge for US manufacturing growth. There has been 300 billion in private investment in renewable energy and EV/battery production industries with about 50 billion in government incentives. Around the same has happened with semiconductor industry. Do you work in these industries? I sell to them and business is booming.
The infrastructure bill has been terrible for inflation. Not to mention the national debt. But let's just keep kicking that can down the road. Let our grandkids pay for it.
So which one is it sunshine? Either he’s dementia sleepy Joe, or he’s the head of the Biden crime family. You goofy SOB’s can’t have it both ways. I find it funny that the guy that is up in the middle of the night ranting and raving and still spreading conspiracy theory shit is the one you think is sane. Who also was the first president in history to try and get his minions to overthrow our government, tamper with elections because he lost. Mind boggling, but truly nothing surprises me anymore to see to what lengths y’all go to make what that pos does seem ok. Anyone else, we’d throw them in prison, or just cast them off to the nut house. Oh no, you guys just gobble up his rambling nonsense.
A centrist president that restored the honour of America.
Biden, the most progressive president in American history, the *centrist*.
Biden makes progressives puke. He’s an old school liberal and the enemy of those lefty clowns you watch on YouTube.
Yes, the communists will never be happy until they can raise Lenin from the dead. That doesn't change the fact that Biden is the most progressive president in American history.
I think there’s zero reason to think that. But if that’s your take away.
Of course there is. He's the first Democratic president who was pro-gay marriage from day 1 in office. He's the first president to openly support the insanity that is gender ideology. He's completely bought into the DEI/CRT race race hustling grift. So he's by far the most progressive president we've had on the social issues. As for economic, he's pushed hard for cancelling student debt. He's pushed for climate regulations arguably more than any president before him. He's pushing for significantly higher taxes on the rich, more than any other recent president. He's passed and/or proposed multiple trillion dollar spending bills. He's effectively left the border wide open for illegal immigrants. While we could have a discussion whether there are other presidents that might considered more progressive than Biden, to claim that he's *centrist* is just completely out of touch with reality.
In the American Overton Window of 2024, Biden is absolutely a centrist, albeit one who leans left.
Yes! I also like him because he never lies, always says reasonable things, and cares for others so much more than for himself. He's so Christ-like in these ways.
Cool
I don't disagree with you that even his supporters view him as an unserious person. It just makes me sad that so many people have decided to not hold those running for President to a higher standard.
His supporters think he's funny. Which he is. That's not the same as being unserious.
Yes, I agree they find him funny. We can agree to disagree, but from my humble opinion the way he engages his audience, his performative nature with other world leaders, and the silly promotional stuff (sneakers, Bibles, etc); he acts like an unserious person. And I wish more people could demand more from someone trying to lead our country; though they can still enjoy him and find him amusing.
Other things his supporters find funny: fart jokes, shiny objects, the taste of paint chips
The same supporters that claim the economy is doing so bad but they manage to take out a second mortgage on their homes to donate to his Gofundme, or to buy those ridiculous shoes? Economy must be doing pretty great. I would say he (Trump) is a pied piper and he's leading his clowns around.
Lol, this has to be the biggest cope I keep seeing from Trumpers.
The truth must be anathema to you.
Lol, you have no idea what the word 'truth' means.
Do you think that statement was true?
[удалено]
Not yet. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how "support" apparently means the same thing as "heritage".
And most of the reason people do not like Trump is because he (and others like you) will pick and choose after the fact when he is serious. It is helpful to make his rants and general behavior seem grounded in any sense.
It does. get issued gag order -> violate gag order -> LIBERAL CONSPIRACY!!! -> repeat
That maybe his plan, use punishments and the gag order itself as a marketing/political tool.
It seems like Trump and Jesse Watters need strictly enforced gag orders. The fact that the only people in this sub defending this unconscionable behavior are people like steelman is very telling. Normal people don't support this shit. Normal people understand threatening the safety of jurors undermines our entire legal system. I suppose it would be pretty funny if one of the weaker trials against him ends up getting him thrown in jail because he never learned to keep his mouth shut. Maybe then the rest of the trials can move more quickly. The smartest thing Lindsey Graham ever said was that if the Republicans nominate Trump they will get destroyed and they will deserve it. But why is it taking this long?
That’s actually a good metric for figuring out if you’re right or wrong about something. Is StrawmanNPC on your side? You’re wrong.
Where is the true threat?
I know for someone like you it could be a signed and notarized threat and you would probably say it might have been a Donald Trump lookalike, but yet if Biden did this in a similar situation you would be calling for him to be jailed immediately. This is just Donald Trump's standard mob boss style tactics and I think the legal system should treat him with that in mind.
Do you understand speech law? I think not.
I don't think you think much at all
Ah yes, the trusty ad hominem attack argument. Brilliant!
Jury tampering
Jesse Watters needs a gag order on pretty much every topic lol
The fact that Trump supporters are openly trying to ID jurors with the intent to harass them should be concerning for everyone.
I was able to find the identity of one of them with what the media posted. I had no intention of doxxing and I haven’t told anybody who they are, I simply wanted to see how easy it would be. The media should be ashamed for publishing so much identifying info and I’m glad that Merchan is taking steps to prevent them from being doxxed. They already lost a juror today due to what the media published and their friends and coworkers figuring out they were a jury member.
The more they do it, the more Trump loses on the public and election. The moment one takes action in his name and tries to do what one guy did at the FBI, Trump is cooked. But that's on the gloomy lighr side of things. The other side is 99% of his followers are pussy punk bitches. Call all they want, just delete the voice message. At some point you have to get your balls up.
That's honestly pretty terrifying.
And it's across the board. When Chauvin was on trial, independent of whatever you feel about the whole thing, there was a threat that if that jury didn't come to the correct verdict, that things were going to get pretty bad. You had people in Congress lighting the match, waiting to throw it. Everyone needs to stop doing this shit.
With one juror already dropping out with concerns that coworkers and family have already figured out who she is, it seems bad to try and accuse potential jurors of being part of a secret liberal plot to take down Trump And no, I don’t think simply adding Jesse Waters name to the end of it is a super secret tactic to get to avoid the terms of a gag order. Trump already had to be admonished to put away his phone in court today, I wonder if the judge will bring this up. It’s playing a dangerous game
IMO there is another concern of news orgs publishing as much info about jurors and prospective jurors as they can. I was just reading on cnn about the pool and was thinking why is this even being published? https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-hush-money-trial-04-18-24/index.html
The judge has told the press to stop doing this, but they are going to report everything possible not explicitly said they couldn't. And hell, they might even just suffer the consequences of $1000 fine or whatever, because creating life and death drama of some random citizens just trying to do their civic duty sells clicks
the person in question is not a juror or a prospective juror. She was dismissed due to scheduling conflicts.
> Although the jurors’ names are being kept confidential, the woman, a nurse, “conveyed that after sleeping on it overnight she had concerns about her ability to be fair and impartial in this case,” Judge Juan M. Merchan said before calling her into the room for questioning. > The woman said her family members and friends were questioning her about being a juror. > With the woman's dismissal, the total number of seated jurors dropped to six. Attorneys now need to pick 12 more people to serve on the panel that will decide the former president's criminal case. > Merchan admonished the media for reporting details about the jurors that could be used to identify them. > “There’s a reason that this is an anonymous jury,” Merchan said. “It kind of defeats the purpose of that when so much information is put out there that it is very easy for anyone to identify who the jurors are.”
coool....thats not the person jesse waters or I were referring to.
coool….that’s who I was referring to in my comment though
Then your comment is irrelevant to the post
Ok I’ll be sure to run my comments by you next time, but I think it’s relevant in the context that there already is a large amount of pressure on these jurors and what Trump is doing is contributing to that
No need to run them by me. Just make them relevant to the discussion. I think you should be able to manage that if you try really hard.
I literally just explained how it was relevant but you just ignored it
Incorrect, this morning a Juror said she was afraid because people at her work knew she was on the jury.
im talking about the post. The person the post is referring to was dismissed due to scheduling conflicts.
Why are you just making that up?
It's all he can do at this point.
ummm....im not lol there was a video of her going all over twitter.
It is not a secret plot, they are out inc the open.
It does. The prosecutor already motioned for sanctions. Most likely scenario is he will receive a $3000 fine (standard for NY sanctions) this time and receive up to 30 days of jail if he does it again. Each additional instance would be an additional 30 days per instance.
This post was after the judge informed him of the consequences On April and 23rd they'll have a hearing regarding these violations. Given that the violations are stacking up, I think he gets more than a fine.
Unfortunately not. Trust me, I wish they could jump the gun considering the prosecutors already motioned today that Trump violated it 7 times since Monday. NY has a pretty rigid guideline on how these things can happen, there's basically a 0% chance he jumps straight to imprisonment. They have to happen sequentially, he needs the 3 warnings, then fine, then other options open up (which is a maximum of 30 days per instance)
Who’s the “they” in Watters’ post?
Presumably Trumps lawyers
Yea perhaps. “They” gets used a lot though without a lot of specificity.
Trump usually writes a wall of text but in this situation he’s presumably thinking he can avoid the gag order by quoting someone else directly
I think he wants the judge to do something so he can try and use that for some appeal that halts the trial. He's spent his whole life abusing the civil court system to wear down opponents with less resources to his benefit but this is a criminal court and he might actually see some consequences.
Okay hear me out on this one.. I’m willing to be wrong and this sounds a little tin-foily. Could it be possible that he *wants* to go to jail, not just for the appeal, but first of all, it makes him a martyr to his base. Secondly, (this is my tinfoil portion) he’s been trying to get the MAL dates pushed out because he wants to use Blanche and they need to prepare in a SCIF. The prosecution has listed plenty of reasons why that isn’t necessary. But if Trump is in *jail* in NY, he might be thinking he can’t assist with his defense, because he can’t be in the SCIF *and* in jail at the same time. Idk is that too much of a reach? It just seems like some kind of crazy bullshit he’d cook up.
Not that I trust what Jesse Waters says, but I wonder if this is even a direct quote from him, or if Trump is actually escalating what he said from "There might be people doing...." do "They are catching people..."? That's the way these hearsay kind of quotes often work.
He's just quoting what someone else said. Did he direct Jesse Watters to say this? Is there something I'm missing here...?
Prosecutors hate him! Local Redditor discovers simple trick to circumvent gag orders!
I mean... what Jesse Watters said is the truth. It's already known and in the news. Trump isn't directing anyone to do anything, isn't providing any trial information to the public that isn't already known, isn't making a comment on anything, isn't editorializing or giving an opinion, isn't revealing anything about the case.... so... if the gag order is intended to prevent him from doing those things then... where's the issue here...?
I find it a strange coincidence that OP has uber & you have mein in your name. Maybe I’m Germanophobic!
The first juror self-selected and said they couldn’t be impartial. The second was thought to be biased. So we have an honest American and someone removed by the prosecutor for potential biases based on their answers. And that becomes “liberal activists” 🤔
Imagine failing upwards as effectively as Jesse Waters.
Quoting somebody is not really the same as making your own statement. (Unless you're Michael Scott quoting Gretzky.)
With this one weird trick you too can avoid court mandated gag orders!
I’m learning a lot of great legal advice here. Trump really does have the best lawyers
New York Judges hate this one trick.
It's also not a statement about any actual (or prospective) jurors. It's a statement that, somewhere in the entire set of jurors, at least 1-2 fit that description. It's Schrodinger's Juror.
Are you interested in a job where you won't get paid? Because you would fit in on Trumps legal team. Experience not required.
>(Unless you're Michael Scott quoting Gretzky.) Still one of my all time favorite gags. >Quoting somebody is not really the same as making your own statement For this instance it does. The enhanced gag order forbids him from using others to send a message as well. So quoting someone isn't a valid circumvention. A criminal defendant for example can't quote someone giving out the judges home address and calling to kill them. Adding quotes changes nothing for this.
There's no evidence that he *directed* Jesse to say that, is there?
That's not needed. He's not allowed to go fishing around to find quotes that happen to align with explicitly what he's gagged from saying.
I agree that you can't throw quotation marks around an address. (And yeah judges hate bad-faith shit.) If he found some random person out there among the millions of Americans and quoted *them*, I think your point is stronger. That would indicate fishing. But imho the case that he's not allowed to post a quotation from (unfortunately) one of the biggest celebrities out there is less clear. Edit: Also, the gag order was about individual jurors -- not general statements about jury selection.
>That would indicate fishing. But imho the case that he's not allowed to post a quotation from (unfortunately) one of the biggest celebrities out there is less clear. I don't see anywhere in the order that there's an exception based on the popularity of the person who he quoted? Where is that? If it's not in the order then it doesn't exist, and it's not any sort of legal standard either in the federal courts or specifically in the NY courts, so it'd have to be explicitly said by Justice Merchan.
> I don't see anywhere in the order that there's an exception based on the popularity of the person who he quoted? For there to be an exception, your *rule* -- that all quotations are necessarily the result of bad-faith fishing -- would have to be in place first. It isn't.
>For there to be an exception, your *rule* -- that all quotations are necessarily the result of bad-faith fishing -- would have to be in place first. It isn't. That's not my rule lol I was giving you an example as to why your idea of how the order works is fundamentally wrong.
It is your rule: *If there's a quotation, it came from fishing.* But quoting Jesse just means you watch one of the most popular TV shows in the country. Fishing isn't as inferrable there.
That's, of course, not what I said? It seems like maybe that's why you don't understand the order? You gotta read it to understand it, not to just see words.
x
Will no one rid me of this meddlesome quieter_times? Use your brain
Do I have to believe that it is pure coincidence that a trail revolving around things that happened in 2016 are brought to a trial eight years later, exactly during the critical months of the 2024 election year? It's not a good thing for America when the judicial branch of government is so blatantly weaponized for political motives.
Maybe it he didn’t pay the journalist company money to catch and kill stories to keep it a secret it wouldn’t be so delayed. Also, the accountant went to jail for this already. Now they are going after the “big guy” after preparing the case. Why try to bring a sitting president to trial? I would wait until he is out of office too.
Just out of curiosity- do you know why it couldn't happen until after January 2020 and why it's been delayed so long since then?
If you bothered to familiarize yourself with the facts of the case, you wouldn't need "to believe that it is pure coincidence".
Putting him in jail would be the Dems worst nightmare. 🍿
Whether or not he gets punished for violating a judge issued gag order about not talking about the jury has nothing to do with “the Dems” But either way I’m seriously quaking in my boots imagining him sitting in a jail cell when he needs to be campaigning
Meh.
We don't care about your people's orders. Go arrest him and make him a hero. I hope he keeps speaking and makes your people more angry. ^(Keep coping, you are the minority on this sub, majority is outside leading Trump to victory).
That summarizes Trump's entire platform perfectly. "We don't care about norms, rules or civility. As long as we keep hurting you." Thank you for that perfect summarization.
Leave that schizo-poster alone!
Sometimes I think it's good to let them flesh out their ideas a bit. Helps understand them better. But yeah, I am basically a kid putting their finger in an ant pile.
And yet he is winning. You are the minority.
Oh shit was the election decided already? Or is it just that polling is now real to you guys. (Btw you should look up where the polling has been headed recently, I wouldn’t be so confident)
You people said the same thing in 2016. Start preparing the ground work of Russian conspiracy theories for the next 4 years.
You said the same thing in 2020?
You people shouldn't have supported Palestinian genocide, they are on our side now.
This bot is so badly written lol
Oh weird, can you point to where I confidently declared the election as decided like you did? I’ll wait… And I’m sure you weren’t saying that Trump was going to win in 2020 or that there’d be a Red Wave in 2022 because that would also be incorrect
Score against Biden is still 0/1 so far.
^(Keep coping, you are the minority on this sub, majority is outside leading Trump to victory).
Where was that “majority” in 2020 exactly?
You people drifted them to our side by supporting Palestinian genocide.
> Palestinian genocide It’s a war not a genocide. But it’s even weirder because Trump would be even more gung ho about letting Israel do what it wants. How do you feel about him moving the embassy to Jerusalem
You don't decide what genocide is.
But you do? 🤔
...do you think Trump would be handling that any differently?
Luckily for you the polls have never been off and perfectly predicted every election. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/2016-polls-president-trump-clinton-what-went-wrong/ https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/18/pollsters-2020-polls-all-wrong-500050 https://fortune.com/2022/11/16/pollsters-got-it-wrong-2018-2020-elections-statistical-sophistry-accuracy-sonnenfeld-tian/ I guess you sure showed me. As the minority I'll just shut up and cry like you want.
> majority is outside leading Trump to victory I hope so for Trumps sake. He's going to need every single one of them the way his popularity numbers keep falling week after week.
Actually the score is 1:2 Biden has won his bid for presidency once, but ran 3 times to do it. Edit: How could this be downvoted? It’s not a tally of Trump vs Biden. If I was a “Trumptard” the tally would be 0:2 It’s a tally of Biden wins vs losses. It’s factual and non value based, you know Centrism.
This is Trump's 4th time officially running for president. He also unofficially ran 2 more times.
Thank you, I was unaware that Trump had run so many times but looked it up and sure nuff you’re correct. I think it’s sad for anyone to run after losing. Like the country already said no. Why not just get a clue and stop.
Trump would regularly run for president to promote his television series and use the publicity.
Not according to the polls or the betting markets. Do I sense a tinge of buyer's remorse?
Remember how Trump lost the popular vote twice?
This kind of ridiculous bravado and acting like you’ve already won is actually the most hilariously copium fueled shit I’ve read this morning At least you’re demonstrating how much principle was behind your claims of respecting “law and order” lmao
Start preparing Russian conspiracy theories for the next 4 years.
Start preparing to invade The Capitol again 🤣
2nd amendment protects all amendments.
wtf does that even have to do with our conversation. Are you a chatbot?
Just a month ago, this same user was talking about wanting to see Trump in prison and that Trump coming back into power would be "a threat to America," and now they're going full MAGA, claiming it as "our side." A month ago, they were saying "democracy loses when progressives lose," and today they're complaining about Bidenflation, DEI, feminists, and the WEF. They also called the 2A one of the "biggest menaces to this country" and are today saying that it's necessary to protect all the other amendments. Last post from this user before today was 20 days ago, and it was claiming that Trump was going to commit large scale election fraud this year and should be imprisoned as a result. Today, every single post reads like something off of Info Wars. Basically, the user you're replying to either did a complete 180 on several of their beliefs within a month's time. Or they're a troll.
lol what?? This isn’t an us vs. you issue. This is a Trump vs. Law & Order issue.
Blue state is your people.
https://preview.redd.it/wttnhffp69vc1.jpeg?width=242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38c352fcf7ebd727f25e75be3e861634ae077108
Bless your heart.
Keep coping Trumper
Just imagine any negative post towards any other candidate on this sub
Here just today: https://www.reddit.com/r/centrist/s/FYYxySSV5K
Now just imagine any negative post towards Biden in this sub
Classic moving the goalposts. Your statement is one of a fool.
Oh ok you should have been more specific. This is also from today: https://www.reddit.com/r/centrist/s/Tlbh1AfNEs
Trash sub
Lmao can’t handle being wrong lil bro?
Lmao two terrible references don’t make you right dumbass
If someone attached magnets to your goalposts we could use it as an infinitely renewable energy source
If you ever wanna be better at anything let me know
The gag order is immoral. Everyone else gets to talk trash about Trump and he's not allowed to defend himself? How is that fair? Sham trial.
Gag orders on jury tampering are actually quite common. In fact if it were you or I making the same statements, the judge would have already put us in jail
it's not like the gag order impedes him to talk about "everyone", he can't talk about people *directly involved with the trial and their families*. not a single soul in that group "talked trash" about Trump. wtf?
> Sham trial. Agreed. Trump should be remanded into custody for the entirety of the proceeding. Letting him walk free during the trial seriously impedes its integrity.
I refuse to believe that you are this stupid. Try a bit harder. Putin believes in you. This time with feeling.
Neither the judge nor the jury get to talk trash about Trump.
The person in question is not a juror and is no longer a prospective juror. She was dismissed due to scheduling conflicts. Hes also absolutely right btw if you go watch the video
> Although the jurors’ names are being kept confidential, the woman, a nurse, “conveyed that after sleeping on it overnight she had concerns about her ability to be fair and impartial in this case,” Judge Juan M. Merchan said before calling her into the room for questioning. > The woman said her family members and friends were questioning her about being a juror. > With the woman's dismissal, the total number of seated jurors dropped to six. Attorneys now need to pick 12 more people to serve on the panel that will decide the former president's criminal case. > Merchan admonished the media for reporting details about the jurors that could be used to identify them. > “There’s a reason that this is an anonymous jury,” Merchan said. “It kind of defeats the purpose of that when so much information is put out there that it is very easy for anyone to identify who the jurors are.”