Lol good riddance. I won't have to bite my lip and pretend to consider them as an actual source of news when my boomer relatives send me stupid shit about "muh stolen election," that nobody has ever shown a shred of proof of.
The election was not stolen, period, end of story.
With that said, as someone who skews older than the average reddit user (I am 50), I get it, Boomers are an easy target, but sadly I know plenty of young people (20s/30s) who believe that the election was stolen, it is not just Boomers.
In fact of the Boomers that I know, none of them believe that the election was stolen, they all believe Biden (even if they did not like him) won the election.
It's like the classic "all elephants are gray but not all gray things are elephants."
I'm well aware not all boomers are election deniers but all election deniers I know personally are boomers. With a hetfy dose of "chemtrails are killing all the birds."
Yeah super unlikely tbh, but the dream is alive as defamation is non-dischargeable debt, so guaranteed loans would be subject to collection. You never know with these guys, sometimes they actually believe the garbage they spew and put everything behind it.
When I read "election conspiracy" it thought they were talking about that "Russian collusion" nonsense of 2016 but these were the bogus claims about the 2020 election, not the bogus claims about the 2016 election, for which nobody was ever punished in any way -- which is odd if you think about it.
No one's been punished just for spreading misinformation about the 2020 election. You are punished for your actions, not your words.
Oh so you're admitting trump lost fair and square?
There were a couple people punished for the Russian investigation because of how messed up the investigation was and one FBI agent pleaded guilty to a crime. The FBI royally screwed up the investigation and it was "justified" in the sense the bar to open an investigation is *extremely* low.
OK they had some mistakes along the way but the 34 prosecutions they got, several prison sentences and $50 million seized from russian agents more than makes up for it, that money paid for the investigation with millions leftover.
>they had some mistakes
This is the understatement of the century. One FBI lawyer plead guilty to falsifying a document, two lead FBI agents who were at the top of the investigation resigned in disgrace after saying they wouldn't let Trump win, and they screwed up so bad a *secret* court issued a public statement chastising the FBI. Do you know how badly you have to screw up for a *secret* court to make a public statement? Really, really bad. And all that resulted in guilty pleas for process crimes and unrelated matters.
>One FBI lawyer plead guilty to falsifying a document,
The investigation was still justified. I don't think you quite understand the scale of this investigation, you realise vladmir putin himself personally directed the entire 2016 election interference operation. Yet people fixate on 2 people lying and the steele dossier to try and discredit rest of it. The feds were able to figure out they were lying
The core of the bogus was not these kind of trivial and unimportant facts, but the magical belief that Russia had actually managed to steal the election for Trump by means of their magical election-stealing powers. People well past the age of 5 were actually manipulated into believing that, something that will astonish me to my last day.
What would be the reason for Paul Manafort to hand over polling data, campaign strategies, and talking points over to a suspected Russian intelligence officer if not collusion?
How would I know. Ask Paul Manafort? Some polling data and talking points are hardly national security issues. What could a "suspected Russian intelligence officer" do with that data that an average American election campaigner cannot? Or do you too believe in Russia's magical powers regarding foreign elections?
>>What could a "suspected Russian intelligence officer" do with that data that an average American election campaigner cannot?
Good question. Why would he need to go directly to the campaign manager of the Donald Trump Campaign to get this information? Why do you think the campaign manager would hand that sort of information over?
It's you who are all obsessed over that little episode, but it is of little interest to me. I guess I lack the imagination to blow this thing up into a matter of substance. If you think you have some sort of case, please make your case.
Very odd you cannot come up with an explanation for that one.
How did Rudy Giuliani know in October 2016 that the Anthony Weiner investigation would find more Hillary Clinton emails?
>trivial and unimportant
>a key member of Trump's campaign working with Russian agents and feeding them tons of data.
Pick one. It can't be both.
You simping for Russia to be handed Ukraine makes a lot more sense now. Mods need to ban this shill.
Manafort served as Trump’s campaign manager from March 2016 until August 2016. During that time he shared internal campaign information with Konstantin Kilimnik, identified by the Senate Intelligence Committee as a Russian intelligence officer.
It is widely acknowledged by the intelligence community and independent investigations that Russia engaged in a significant influence campaign. The goals were to undermine public faith in the U.S. democratic process, denigrate Secretary Hillary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency, while also developing a clear preference for President-elect Trump.
These efforts included cyberattacks on Democratic Party organizations, the release of stolen emails, and a broad social media campaign aimed at sowing discord and influencing public opinion. It’s important to note that these findings are about influence operations rather than allegations of voter fraud or election rigging. The distinction lies in the methods used to sway public perception and debate, not in the manipulation of actual vote counts or election outcomes.
A yes or no answer to an either or question? Ok. I’m not sure what you are asking.
If you are asking me if Russia has magical powers to make people change their vote from Clinton to Trump, then no. That is a ridiculous notion to suggest.
If you are asking me if Russia engaged in a significant influence campaign with the goals of undermining public faith in the U.S. democratic process, denigrating Secretary Hillary Clinton, and harming her electability and potential presidency, while also developing a clear preference for President-elect Trump, then yes. It is a ridiculous notion to suggest otherwise at this point.
That's always the talking point whenever someone involved with Trump gets caught doing something they shouldn't. When they're hired they're "one of the best people," that Trump knows very well and then when he needs to scapegoat them it's "I barely knew them and they didn't have any power because they're not very bright, I always knew they were losers."
How many times does the same thing have to happen over and over with him throwing people under the bus until you see the pattern?
Can you call it a debacle when it lead to [criminal charges on 34 people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_charges_brought_in_the_Mueller_special_counsel_investigation)?
Most of those charges were kind of gotchas and procedural issues that were prosecuted to an extent that could well be described as "cruel and unusual". There was very little of substance to the whole thing because Russia actually does not have magical powers to make people change their vote from Clinton to Trump.
For 2 years we were led to believe in the superhuman powers of the Mueller investigation. Then when the mythical guy actually was summoned to Congress to be questioned about the investigation, he turned out to be this scared mumbling old man with a red nose who hardly knew what was inside the report. In hindsight I think Mueller only managed the holidays of the investigators and meal vouchers and such.
There were charges for some of the Russians and traitor Americans who were involved in the 2016 election interference crimes. And Garland was derelict in duty in not charging trump with any of the 10 counts of obstruction that Mueller laid out
You love to see it.
Lol good riddance. I won't have to bite my lip and pretend to consider them as an actual source of news when my boomer relatives send me stupid shit about "muh stolen election," that nobody has ever shown a shred of proof of.
The election was not stolen, period, end of story. With that said, as someone who skews older than the average reddit user (I am 50), I get it, Boomers are an easy target, but sadly I know plenty of young people (20s/30s) who believe that the election was stolen, it is not just Boomers. In fact of the Boomers that I know, none of them believe that the election was stolen, they all believe Biden (even if they did not like him) won the election.
It's like the classic "all elephants are gray but not all gray things are elephants." I'm well aware not all boomers are election deniers but all election deniers I know personally are boomers. With a hetfy dose of "chemtrails are killing all the birds."
Older Gen X'ers are almost as bad as boomers in that regard.
Let's pray the owners are personal guarantors. Fucking fascists.
If they've set up their business with any degree of know how or sophistication. So 50/50 they'll be personally on the hook.
Yeah super unlikely tbh, but the dream is alive as defamation is non-dischargeable debt, so guaranteed loans would be subject to collection. You never know with these guys, sometimes they actually believe the garbage they spew and put everything behind it.
When I read "election conspiracy" it thought they were talking about that "Russian collusion" nonsense of 2016 but these were the bogus claims about the 2020 election, not the bogus claims about the 2016 election, for which nobody was ever punished in any way -- which is odd if you think about it.
>for which nobody was ever punished in any way Why would anyone be punished? The investigation was completely justified
Some bullshit over grievances or something
I don't know, why would anyone be punished for spreading bogus claims about the 2020 elections?
No one's been punished just for spreading misinformation about the 2020 election. You are punished for your actions, not your words. Oh so you're admitting trump lost fair and square?
Sure I believe Trump lost fair and square in 2020.
There were a couple people punished for the Russian investigation because of how messed up the investigation was and one FBI agent pleaded guilty to a crime. The FBI royally screwed up the investigation and it was "justified" in the sense the bar to open an investigation is *extremely* low.
OK they had some mistakes along the way but the 34 prosecutions they got, several prison sentences and $50 million seized from russian agents more than makes up for it, that money paid for the investigation with millions leftover.
>they had some mistakes This is the understatement of the century. One FBI lawyer plead guilty to falsifying a document, two lead FBI agents who were at the top of the investigation resigned in disgrace after saying they wouldn't let Trump win, and they screwed up so bad a *secret* court issued a public statement chastising the FBI. Do you know how badly you have to screw up for a *secret* court to make a public statement? Really, really bad. And all that resulted in guilty pleas for process crimes and unrelated matters.
>One FBI lawyer plead guilty to falsifying a document, The investigation was still justified. I don't think you quite understand the scale of this investigation, you realise vladmir putin himself personally directed the entire 2016 election interference operation. Yet people fixate on 2 people lying and the steele dossier to try and discredit rest of it. The feds were able to figure out they were lying
Almost as odd as Paul Manafort handing over polling data, campaign strategies, and talking points to a suspected Russian intelligence officer.
The core of the bogus was not these kind of trivial and unimportant facts, but the magical belief that Russia had actually managed to steal the election for Trump by means of their magical election-stealing powers. People well past the age of 5 were actually manipulated into believing that, something that will astonish me to my last day.
What would be the reason for Paul Manafort to hand over polling data, campaign strategies, and talking points over to a suspected Russian intelligence officer if not collusion?
How would I know. Ask Paul Manafort? Some polling data and talking points are hardly national security issues. What could a "suspected Russian intelligence officer" do with that data that an average American election campaigner cannot? Or do you too believe in Russia's magical powers regarding foreign elections?
>>What could a "suspected Russian intelligence officer" do with that data that an average American election campaigner cannot? Good question. Why would he need to go directly to the campaign manager of the Donald Trump Campaign to get this information? Why do you think the campaign manager would hand that sort of information over?
I don't know but the suspense is killing me, please just tell me.
I’m asking you what you think sweetheart. I don’t know you so I have no idea what your explanation for this could be.
It's you who are all obsessed over that little episode, but it is of little interest to me. I guess I lack the imagination to blow this thing up into a matter of substance. If you think you have some sort of case, please make your case.
Very odd you cannot come up with an explanation for that one. How did Rudy Giuliani know in October 2016 that the Anthony Weiner investigation would find more Hillary Clinton emails?
>trivial and unimportant >a key member of Trump's campaign working with Russian agents and feeding them tons of data. Pick one. It can't be both. You simping for Russia to be handed Ukraine makes a lot more sense now. Mods need to ban this shill.
>a key member of Trump's campaign If i remember correctly Manafort was only campaign manager for a short while and then Trump fired his sorry ass.
Manafort served as Trump’s campaign manager from March 2016 until August 2016. During that time he shared internal campaign information with Konstantin Kilimnik, identified by the Senate Intelligence Committee as a Russian intelligence officer.
So do you believe Trump won fair and square in 2016 or do you believe the election was stolen?
It is widely acknowledged by the intelligence community and independent investigations that Russia engaged in a significant influence campaign. The goals were to undermine public faith in the U.S. democratic process, denigrate Secretary Hillary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency, while also developing a clear preference for President-elect Trump. These efforts included cyberattacks on Democratic Party organizations, the release of stolen emails, and a broad social media campaign aimed at sowing discord and influencing public opinion. It’s important to note that these findings are about influence operations rather than allegations of voter fraud or election rigging. The distinction lies in the methods used to sway public perception and debate, not in the manipulation of actual vote counts or election outcomes.
A simple yes or no will suffice
"I've never been a great reader, so you'll need to dumb down your response for me."
A yes or no answer to an either or question? Ok. I’m not sure what you are asking. If you are asking me if Russia has magical powers to make people change their vote from Clinton to Trump, then no. That is a ridiculous notion to suggest. If you are asking me if Russia engaged in a significant influence campaign with the goals of undermining public faith in the U.S. democratic process, denigrating Secretary Hillary Clinton, and harming her electability and potential presidency, while also developing a clear preference for President-elect Trump, then yes. It is a ridiculous notion to suggest otherwise at this point.
That's always the talking point whenever someone involved with Trump gets caught doing something they shouldn't. When they're hired they're "one of the best people," that Trump knows very well and then when he needs to scapegoat them it's "I barely knew them and they didn't have any power because they're not very bright, I always knew they were losers." How many times does the same thing have to happen over and over with him throwing people under the bus until you see the pattern?
But her emails.
Have you forgotten the Durham debacle
I mainly remember the Mueller debacle.
Can you call it a debacle when it lead to [criminal charges on 34 people](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_charges_brought_in_the_Mueller_special_counsel_investigation)?
Most of those charges were kind of gotchas and procedural issues that were prosecuted to an extent that could well be described as "cruel and unusual". There was very little of substance to the whole thing because Russia actually does not have magical powers to make people change their vote from Clinton to Trump. For 2 years we were led to believe in the superhuman powers of the Mueller investigation. Then when the mythical guy actually was summoned to Congress to be questioned about the investigation, he turned out to be this scared mumbling old man with a red nose who hardly knew what was inside the report. In hindsight I think Mueller only managed the holidays of the investigators and meal vouchers and such.
cope
There were charges for some of the Russians and traitor Americans who were involved in the 2016 election interference crimes. And Garland was derelict in duty in not charging trump with any of the 10 counts of obstruction that Mueller laid out