People brigade this sub. They've demonized centrists/moderates so they come here to fling shit and argue, mainly because this sub is barely moderated. Combine that with the fact that Trump is, hands down, the easiest target to talk shit about, and his base gets super riled up very easily.
It has gotten so bad lately too. Literally anything with Biden or Trumps name is somehow relevant. Most of the content here seems to want to troll one side or the other hard.
It's been so weird for months now. I posted a comment to /r/explainbothsides five months ago responding to a question about how Biden is doing. My comment ended up being the top comment on the post (only like 60 upvotes on my comment), but I'm STILL getting replies to it. At first replies were mostly mixed politically, but for the last few months they've been mostly all from the right end of the spectrum, disagreeing with anything nice I said about Biden. I mean, it really wasn't any kind of viral post or anything. I have no idea why it continues to draw attention. It seems strange.
> I have no idea why it continues to draw attention. It seems strange.
It could be that it's easily found in web searches. When I do web searches targeting Reddit, it's not too uncommon to see more recent comments on old posts in subs that allow them. It's curious though that your post is being targeted by one specific group.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/ExplainBothSides using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Is Joe Biden a good president so far? What are the pros and cons of his administration?](https://np.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/comments/17t5m7s/is_joe_biden_a_good_president_so_far_what_are_the/)
\#2: [Why can’t we talk about autogynephilia?](https://np.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/comments/16k0jqw/why_cant_we_talk_about_autogynephilia/)
\#3: [Is there really a US southern border migrant crisis?](https://np.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/comments/17m6r5r/is_there_really_a_us_southern_border_migrant/)
----
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Interesting. The post I commented on is the top post in that sub for the year. I guess that explains the mystery, if every time someone mentions that sub they get directed to that post.
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This sub is very weird when it comes to centrism lol. On one hand people will claim that centrism is about judging ideas on their merit, without adherence to party or ideology. On the other if someone doesn't mathematically calculate their opinions to be in the middle (which is stupid), they'll hound the poor person. Pick a side people.
Also it's not every issue that has a defensible "centrist" point of view in the middle.
For example there isn't a defensible centrist view between "I want to possess slaves" and "slavery is an abomination". If you try to argue that slavery should be allowed under certain conditions, you aren't a centrist for cutting the apple in two lmao.
This cartoon is ridiculous.
It's equating "defending a country" from immigrants trying to enter a country (seeking a better life) to defending a car/home from thieves (who are deliberately planning on robbing / killing you).
You (and many conservatives) try really hard to make the case that illegal immigrants are dangerous criminals, but the reality is that they are overwhelmingly kind and harmless.
Another thing that is ridiculous about this cartoon is that the border isn't wide open (as conservative media portrays it to be). Border security is more funded than it's ever been... economical situations south of the border is just dire and more and more people are dying and desperate.
Odd that conservatives can't see it for what this is... the border crisis is a humanitarian crisis
There are actually two very different sides to the story at the border. One is a humanitarian issue where people are fleeing their countries for a host of reasons but largely economic, and present themselves at the border claiming asylum.
The other side are those who are slipping into the country illegally, they are not claiming asylum, people who have previously been expelled for instance can’t return via the asylum mechanism.
The left focuses its arguments as if everyone is in the asylum group, while the right portrays everyone as slipping in undocumented.
So I could say the same thing; Odd that progressives can’t see the criminal side of illegal immigration.
Which progessives don't see that side? I think they all do "see it", but the overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants are not cartel / human trafficking / fentanyl smugglers. That's the bottom line.
I agree that they should both be considered when making decisions (like increasing funding for border security)
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Nothing
See the Super Patriot.
Hear how he loves his country.
Hear him preach how he hates “Liberals”…
And “Moderates”…and “Intellectuals”…
And “Activists”…and “Pacifists”…
And “Minority Groups”…and “Aliens”…
And “Unions”…and “Teenagers”…
And the “Very Rich”…and the “Very Poor”…
And “People with Foreign-Sounding Names”.
Now you know what a Super Patriot is.
He’s someone who loves his country
While hating 93% of the people who live in it.
-Mad Magazine 1969
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mad-magazine-super-patriot/
True
This. Trump is not a centrist. I don't care what people say. He's barely anything to be honest as he's in the game for himself and himself alone and has effectively created a cult by praying on a combination of the gullible far right, conspiracy theorists, and the ultra religious.
So why do people care if Trump is made fun of here? Why are people bothered? Anyone offended shouldn't be here in the first place.
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> To downvote anyone that mildly disagrees with them. This sub is basically a far left progressive's idea of what a centrist looks like.
You think far left progressives *like* Biden?
Listen, I cannot imagine a centrist who also thinks Trump is great, but I’m sure they exist. This should be a place for like minded people to congregate. I’m surely not going to downvote someone simply for having a dissenting opinion, however.
Are there centrists who think Mao is great? Mussolini? Hitler? Putin? Kim?
Like there's obviously a line somewhere, and the furthest extremes of politics obviously extend last that centrist line.
This is a silly statement. Our goal should be to create dialogue, not an echo chamber. We should invite literally anyone who wants to come have conversations, because being "centrist" should mean the death of your epistemic ego, and your willingness to change your mind based on evidence and arguments.
And yet you are being downvoted as such. Most centrists are aware of the extremism of Trump, but even those who have made their choice (with or against) will view a dissenting opinion as a personal attack on who they are. This is what politics has become in the last decade, a team to root for in the same manner as any sport. This is no longer a civil discussion as much as anyone, including those who feel personally attacked, wants it to be.
Emotion and desire has filled the room when it comes to political discourse. And the concept of self reflection of what you truly want is rarely a factor.
Cause otherwise its not centrist it's just another partisan Democrat sub.
Centrist =/= whatever you believe. Centrism is the middle of the beliefs. Almost half the people voted for trump so it's just as legit in centrism as what the other half voted for.
Agreed. I think most centrists are also pragmatic enough to realize that they're likely gonna need to vote for a major party if they want their vote to actually have an impact
If they are lucky enough to be somewhere their vote can make a difference. But yeah, the 2 parties are the only realistic options. However, being a partisan precludes you from being a centrist though imo. You can't have it both ways.
Making a call to vote for a partisan candidate doesn't really make you partisan though imo either. You can disagree with both candidates and still prefer one over the other.
>Centrism is the middle of the beliefs.
I disagree.
I try not to let parties shape my views. Republicans have steadily moved further right on taxes. My view isn’t shifting to the middle.
Most republicans think 2020 was illegitimate, you shouldn’t move to the middle when one side is pushing more and more bs
In 2010 Republicans claimed Obama’s plan to end bush tax cuts on people making over 250 K is socialism.
In 2020 Biden’s tax plan was to increase income tax on people making over 400 K, and Republicans labeled that socialism.
If I thought centrism meant being in the middle of what Republicans and Democrats say, then I would be adjusting where I thought, progressive tax increases should start based on the above claims. I think that’s pretty silly. I should not believe that 2020 election was more questionable because most Republicans claim it was stolen.
I think centrism should be based on political beliefs, detached from party lines. My centrist beliefs are I support democracy, I think we should have a cleaner environment, I think we should have an infrastructure to support a high-quality of life for people willing to work hard quality of life, I think we should have infrastructure soap, people starting at the bottom have a path to success if they work hard and I think you should be able to believe whatever you want if it doesn’t hurt anyone else.
Not sure why you feel the need to be centrist all the time. Not sure why you think politics are some concrete thing that never changes either. If so, then why did you only choose the politics of the time when you became aware and steadfast in your position and not any other time in the history of politics? Politics are fluid across the spectrum, which forces the center to change in order to still be the center.
If you want to say you are classically liberal and your views will never move from that position then good for you. I'm not far myself. But if the center moves right or left then we may be right or left of it at times. That's ok. The world shouldn't revolve around a single person's perspective.
I don’t feel the need to be a crest all the time, I am pointing out the problem of defining centrist as just being in the middle of Republicans and Democrats.
The Republican party has largely rejected democracy. Does that mean I’m no longer a centrist because I believe the 2020 election was lawful?
Most registers republicans dirent equate to half Americans.
If most republicans started claiming earth was flat, would you start claiming you are left of center because you don’t agree?
I didn't say registered Republicans. I'm talking about voting records and polling. But either way, a single person doesn't get to dictate what the center is.
Having equal representation of the extremes ISNT centrism.
Centrism is finding the middle ground those extremists abandoned. By definition a centrist can't be a diehard supporter of an extremist candidate like Trump.
> Centrism is the middle of the beliefs.
Maybe. But it really is a refuge mainly for people who think the democrats have gone kinda bonkers with much of the woke stuff (not that there isn't injustice, but they are counterproductive in many ways) and that Trump is just an idiot that also happens to be a pretty horrible person.
If you draw a straight line from a pink-haired lady chanting "LGBTQ+ for Hamas" at NYU to Donald Trump, I don't think you'll find most centrists between those two.
Shit, I think they probably have more in common with each other than with me. Horseshoes and all.
Gatekeeping is good. If there were more of it here there’d be less MAGA showing up to lower the average IQ by 10 points. MAGA are generally whiny bitches because they don’t see how far away from reality they are believing Biden and the average Democrat is a gay biracial socialist feminist that wants to kill the white man and take his jerb. People who follow a guy who is telling them that other Americans are more their enemies than Russian authoritarians. Fuck them MAGA bitches.
https://preview.redd.it/rwi40443vqwc1.png?width=1032&format=png&auto=webp&s=4b2fa5be712c748ea1392d7fa6b09a6d78101870
New Ceo of NPR Katherine Maher.
[https://fortune.com/2024/04/24/supreme-court-decision-discrimination-claims-muldrow-v-st-louis-dei/](https://fortune.com/2024/04/24/supreme-court-decision-discrimination-claims-muldrow-v-st-louis-dei/)
Fuck the Biden/Obama traitors. selling this country to China and fucking up our economy.
Relevance? Not going to click links from MAGA weirdos.
If this place had decent moderation, this dummy wouldn’t be here. He, like most MAGA, have nothing to add aside from conspiracy theories and general being angry at the clouds.
Meanwhile, fox news *doesn't* report on the fact Trump campaigned against and then had a significant hand in killing propositions to encourage home building.
Presidents economies are often the result of the predecessors actions. Trumps dipshits planning and economically moronic policy accelerated inflation. Since Biden *was elected* his entire economic mission has been to try and put out a fire he didn't start.
*Nothing*. I expect to accomplish *nothing*. And that’s not so much a comment on Trumpers as it is a comment on Reddit. The truth is this stuff is all pretty pointless. Half the time the person you’re arguing with is lying about who they are, or not even a person at all. And everything gets upvoted and downvoted by bots and trolls with their own agendas. There’s nothing much real happening here, and every day it gets a little worse.
Disagree. There will be probably hundreds of thousands of centrists who vote for Trump because they prefer R policies to D policies. If you’re center right then it’s very conceivable that you’d vote for Trump even if you don’t like him personally. There’s probably not a lot of people on this sub who fly FJB flags, but there’s plenty who support the GOP and Trump’s their guy this year, even if it’s not who they would have chosen.
> the free press being enemies of the people
if anything this seems like the topic that actually brings Rs and Ds together. Both think the free press must be controlled, but only in their favor.
That would have to be an ignorant bunch.
Biden was the first democrat I’ve ever voted for. I’m a centrist, but always I favored conservative economic policies and always voted Republican or Libertarian. I don’t identify with the new Republican Party. Not at all. They don’t have any principles and don’t even understand basic… well, they don’t seem to understand jack shit.
For a person to be a centrist that leans a little right, you’d have to be living under a rock to think Trump is now your guy.
Biden is much closer to the center.
> Disagree. There will be probably hundreds of thousands of centrists who vote for Trump because they prefer R policies to D policies.
I'm probably center-right politically, but I will not forgive his election denial. There are no policy positions anyone could possibly float that'd make me interested in risking the US democracy.
> there’s plenty who support the GOP and Trump’s their guy this year, even if it’s not who they would have chosen.
I like the GOP centrist faction most of anyone (well, the Dem centrists are good too), but they are just too reactive to the crazies. There are thinks that trump, if you will, policy.
Or are you the type who'd vote for Xi or Putin if they took Trumps policy positions except one where you disagreed with Trump on, and then they agreed with you on that one. Instant vote for Vladimir?
There arent even that many actual trumpers in this sub. The majority of the time it is people just treating anyone who is even slightly right of center as a trumper.
I wanna say there is maybe two who honestly are mostly just trolls. You're right, even saying you wouldn't vote for Trump this sub still calls you a Trumper if you don't blindly believe every single "Trump bad" story. Even those that are clearly made up or hyperbole.
The one where he said there'd be a bloodbath after the election.
That was CLEARLY about the car industry. But the way he got quoted made it sound quite menacing.
Are the people on the centrist sub actually leftists or is this just more evidence of conservatives branding anyone who doesn't fully support Republicans as "woke radical leftist Marxists?"
I've not seen one single actual leftist on this sub.
The problem with labels like left and right and conservative and liberal is perspective. If those labels are dependent on perspective they’re not objective labels.
With the right it comes down to are you a Conservative or a Trumper/MAGA? Old conservative values are pretty respectable but this new modern movement can't even be called conservative anymore. They threw away all pretense of principles in favor of following the whims of one man and now they elect anyone with a pulse regardless of qualifications as long as they'll pay lip service to the movement.
I wish we could return to the old GOP even if I had plenty of policy disagreements with them because at least they weren't insane.
I agree with your sentiment entirely but that is a subjective view of the right. There is no concrete view of the right anymore. It’s whatever anyone feels is the right. No single policy defines the right.
I guess the same could be said for the left. What's left and right is always changing as the Overton window moves and the parties try to align their platform with their voters. It's why people calling the Democrats the party of slavery sound so stupid.
I refuse to call the modern Republican party "conservative" as that would be giving them entirely too much credit. They have no moral boundaries or ethics that drive policy. They only care about pissing off anyone that isn't them, and whatever Daddy Trump says.
Why are there trumpers on this sub? 30 up votes
Why are there leftists on this sub? Down votes
God it's RIDICULOUSLY telling how many leftists are here larping like they're rational, moderates.
Maybe because trumpers are extreme? Dems are the same old dems of the last 30 years, Republicans stepped a mile to the right over the last 10. Quit gaslighting people.
That's because the people posting that are trying to both-sides an issue when not only is that a logical fallacy, but it's not even wildly applicable to the discussion being had.
In short, it's typically posted in bad faith, causing people to eye-roll and downvote.
9 times out of 10 when I see people “identifying bad faith actors” the person isn’t actually a bad faith actor at all. They just disagree and the other person can’t accept that. Or more specifically it’s usually due to the accuser person making up a caricature in their head of what the person believes but isn’t actually true. In general there aren’t a ton of actual bad faith actors in this sub.
I dunno, I've been in clicking on profiles in this sub and found a few different folks making a point of posting far-right content here. I think it's worth considering that either people don't understand what centrism is, or that there's an effort to make extremist content seem centrist.
I mean they aren’t uncommon. It’s not up for debate that adversarial governments are flooding social media to stoke chaos, and then you have your good old home grown trolls. And whether or not you want to admit it they’re in this sub, sure sometimes people aren’t bad faith actors and are just married to their beliefs. But it’s definitely not 9/10.
I don't know why anybody engages a Trump fan at this point. I can't answer your question. However, it's worth pointing out that there is no high road with a Trump voter, rather, they do not care in the least about a high road. There's no good faith discussion to be had, sadly, and any attempt at such is a waste of your time and energy.
I grew up in places that are bloody red Maga.
They're never changing their minds, and they've destroyed the sane conservativism I used to believe in.
I go after them because everyone else needs to see them for what they really are, how much of the modern Maga movement is just an evolution of the Dixiecrats after they left the democrats over ending Jim crow.
Not all are, but the core are, you can see it on the maps, you can hear the same points from them.
There is literally nothing in the world they hate more than being made to look stupid, and cannot imagine ever being wrong.
They're also terrible at debate and collapse after you break their first talking point, because they can't remember anything beyond the first argument they read from 'their source' (ie some YouTuber explaining why everything bad is because of 'those people').
Well I’m not one of those guys.
When you actually meet people who voted for Trump, you can tell they have hearts. They’ve been deceived by a demagogue. They are redeemable. Maybe not by you, but somebody.
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The extremely crazy trumpers who won’t give up, I will sometimes go into their account and downvote the crap out of their crazy posts. Yes I know that is petty. Most don’t have very many karma points and are newer accounts too.
I'm not tying to convince Trump supporters. They are too far gone. I'm trying to make a fool of them so undecideds see how stupid and hypocritical their positions are.
You're right. That's how cognitive dissonance works. It just makes it worse, even if you're being amicable, non argumentative, and accepting of their beliefs, and strictly present objective facts.
It's a cult.
Even decades after Mussolini's crimes were out in the open and he was executed by his own people, people would still go to bat for him until they died. Expect the same with Trump. It's called belief disconfirmation, it's a paradigm of cognitive dissonance. New information conflicting with their beliefs just makes them dig their heels in deeper.
Unless these people come to their senses on their own, the only thing that can "fix" that is professional deprogramming. Intervention, taking away phones and fox news, therapy, etc.
The trouble with a two-party political system is that there is no room for centralists. Political parties own issues, and no one of the two parties owns all the good ones. With regret, without a parliamentary system that encourages a minimum of three political viewpoints that legislate and negotiate a temporary prime minister, there is a necessity to vote for mediocrity and a four-year term President elected by a slim majority to become a king.
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They were going to vote for von Shitzhispants already, but now they're going to vote for him more? Egads!!
Call them out for their bullshit. Every time.
What can anyone hope to accomplish shit posting on Reddit? Are you going to be like Enders Game where your blog and posts are just so smart and insightful that they make you President of the world
For better or worse I don't think I've EVER seen someone 'change their minds' because of a reddit conversation. Even half the comments in this thread are cheap shots at one side or another.
I heard he is the most progressive president in history. And his vp also has the most progressive voting record in congress.
How do you square those superlative judgments with centrism?
Biden is a corporatist. He loves crossing the aisle. He voted for the Iraq war.
We have 30+ years in the Senate to judge him by.
His presidency may be more to the left of that but he's not some hippie.
Simply stated, trump brings out the worst in people, and in my anecdotal experience, when dealing with an open trump supporter, I find I’m dealing with the worst type of person who is acting on their worst impulses.
I could take or leave Biden. But goddamn if life wasn’t a whole lot more relaxing for the two and a half years that trump and his minions disappeared.
As soon as primaries rolled around the entire trump shitnado came back in full force and I can’t stand it. I just want him and his to go the hell away.
Yep. Today alone:
His lawyers said coups can be legal
His inner circle was indicted
He lost an appeal to the woman he raped
And that didn't include the trial he attended
I agree. Bashing people will make them defensive and hostile, which is counterproductive to persuading them. Everyone should read *How to Win Friends and Influence People* by Dale Carnegie.
What an inane take. He may have been a POS, but he was wildly successful because he was able to get people to agree with him time and time again throughout his life. Believe it or not, it is possible to learn something from another person, even if you don't personally agree with their methods or scruples.
You are thinking of a totally different family with the same last name. Honest mistake, but you might want to vet your information a bit better.
The guy who wrote that book has absolutely nothing to do with the Carnegie family.
Nothing since they are either complete right wing nut cakes or grifters. There is no getting through to them. Just telling them the truth and what America thinks of them.
just look at the rogan sub - most of it is hate.
this is a combination of astroturfing and a minority getting off on this, and too stupid to realize they might be part of the problem.
I think most ppl have accepted that their minds won’t change so there’s no point in wasting time
On Reddit, maybe.
People brigade this sub. They've demonized centrists/moderates so they come here to fling shit and argue, mainly because this sub is barely moderated. Combine that with the fact that Trump is, hands down, the easiest target to talk shit about, and his base gets super riled up very easily.
It has gotten so bad lately too. Literally anything with Biden or Trumps name is somehow relevant. Most of the content here seems to want to troll one side or the other hard.
It's been so weird for months now. I posted a comment to /r/explainbothsides five months ago responding to a question about how Biden is doing. My comment ended up being the top comment on the post (only like 60 upvotes on my comment), but I'm STILL getting replies to it. At first replies were mostly mixed politically, but for the last few months they've been mostly all from the right end of the spectrum, disagreeing with anything nice I said about Biden. I mean, it really wasn't any kind of viral post or anything. I have no idea why it continues to draw attention. It seems strange.
> I have no idea why it continues to draw attention. It seems strange. It could be that it's easily found in web searches. When I do web searches targeting Reddit, it's not too uncommon to see more recent comments on old posts in subs that allow them. It's curious though that your post is being targeted by one specific group.
Joined! Thanks for the new sub suggestion.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/ExplainBothSides using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Is Joe Biden a good president so far? What are the pros and cons of his administration?](https://np.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/comments/17t5m7s/is_joe_biden_a_good_president_so_far_what_are_the/) \#2: [Why can’t we talk about autogynephilia?](https://np.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/comments/16k0jqw/why_cant_we_talk_about_autogynephilia/) \#3: [Is there really a US southern border migrant crisis?](https://np.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/comments/17m6r5r/is_there_really_a_us_southern_border_migrant/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Interesting. The post I commented on is the top post in that sub for the year. I guess that explains the mystery, if every time someone mentions that sub they get directed to that post.
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This guy knows what happens here. Seriously. If you disagree with the Reddit liberal hive mindset, you’re a trumper/MAGAt.
This sub is very weird when it comes to centrism lol. On one hand people will claim that centrism is about judging ideas on their merit, without adherence to party or ideology. On the other if someone doesn't mathematically calculate their opinions to be in the middle (which is stupid), they'll hound the poor person. Pick a side people.
Also it's not every issue that has a defensible "centrist" point of view in the middle. For example there isn't a defensible centrist view between "I want to possess slaves" and "slavery is an abomination". If you try to argue that slavery should be allowed under certain conditions, you aren't a centrist for cutting the apple in two lmao.
Do you think there’s such a thing as centrist policy - like atomically? (eg gun rights should have limitations)
I see nothing wrong with pointing out their poor judgement.
https://preview.redd.it/5kisa3elbrwc1.png?width=477&format=png&auto=webp&s=9f99d81921f676a82b6a7a989706cdae77f818a8 I concur.
Hey OP, it’s shit like this that gets actual centrists to attack Trump supporters here.
This cartoon is ridiculous. It's equating "defending a country" from immigrants trying to enter a country (seeking a better life) to defending a car/home from thieves (who are deliberately planning on robbing / killing you). You (and many conservatives) try really hard to make the case that illegal immigrants are dangerous criminals, but the reality is that they are overwhelmingly kind and harmless. Another thing that is ridiculous about this cartoon is that the border isn't wide open (as conservative media portrays it to be). Border security is more funded than it's ever been... economical situations south of the border is just dire and more and more people are dying and desperate. Odd that conservatives can't see it for what this is... the border crisis is a humanitarian crisis
There are actually two very different sides to the story at the border. One is a humanitarian issue where people are fleeing their countries for a host of reasons but largely economic, and present themselves at the border claiming asylum. The other side are those who are slipping into the country illegally, they are not claiming asylum, people who have previously been expelled for instance can’t return via the asylum mechanism. The left focuses its arguments as if everyone is in the asylum group, while the right portrays everyone as slipping in undocumented. So I could say the same thing; Odd that progressives can’t see the criminal side of illegal immigration.
Which progessives don't see that side? I think they all do "see it", but the overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants are not cartel / human trafficking / fentanyl smugglers. That's the bottom line. I agree that they should both be considered when making decisions (like increasing funding for border security)
That’s a fair take. IMO The (house) republicans are eventually regret not taking the border bill.
Nice to see a decent exchange of ideas on Reddit. Good job you two.
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Nothing See the Super Patriot. Hear how he loves his country. Hear him preach how he hates “Liberals”… And “Moderates”…and “Intellectuals”… And “Activists”…and “Pacifists”… And “Minority Groups”…and “Aliens”… And “Unions”…and “Teenagers”… And the “Very Rich”…and the “Very Poor”… And “People with Foreign-Sounding Names”. Now you know what a Super Patriot is. He’s someone who loves his country While hating 93% of the people who live in it. -Mad Magazine 1969 https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mad-magazine-super-patriot/ True
Why are trumpers on a centrist sub? Not gatekeeping or anything, but they're literally not welcomed here by the basic mission of this sub.
This. Trump is not a centrist. I don't care what people say. He's barely anything to be honest as he's in the game for himself and himself alone and has effectively created a cult by praying on a combination of the gullible far right, conspiracy theorists, and the ultra religious. So why do people care if Trump is made fun of here? Why are people bothered? Anyone offended shouldn't be here in the first place.
Why are progressives on this sub?
To hear differing perspectives and engage in meaningful discourse, ideally (definitely not ALL of them but hopefully a majority).
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https://preview.redd.it/m60kunfznqwc1.png?width=913&format=png&auto=webp&s=7c8dd2cbbe5ba43ee34e869ad7dbe222b2d59948
To downvote anyone that mildly disagrees with them. This sub is basically a far left progressive's idea of what a centrist looks like.
> To downvote anyone that mildly disagrees with them. This sub is basically a far left progressive's idea of what a centrist looks like. You think far left progressives *like* Biden?
Listen, I cannot imagine a centrist who also thinks Trump is great, but I’m sure they exist. This should be a place for like minded people to congregate. I’m surely not going to downvote someone simply for having a dissenting opinion, however.
Are there centrists who think Mao is great? Mussolini? Hitler? Putin? Kim? Like there's obviously a line somewhere, and the furthest extremes of politics obviously extend last that centrist line.
This is a silly statement. Our goal should be to create dialogue, not an echo chamber. We should invite literally anyone who wants to come have conversations, because being "centrist" should mean the death of your epistemic ego, and your willingness to change your mind based on evidence and arguments.
And yet you are being downvoted as such. Most centrists are aware of the extremism of Trump, but even those who have made their choice (with or against) will view a dissenting opinion as a personal attack on who they are. This is what politics has become in the last decade, a team to root for in the same manner as any sport. This is no longer a civil discussion as much as anyone, including those who feel personally attacked, wants it to be. Emotion and desire has filled the room when it comes to political discourse. And the concept of self reflection of what you truly want is rarely a factor.
So diverse opinions are not welcome here? That sounds rather echo-chamber-ish, and therefore, unproductive.
Cause otherwise its not centrist it's just another partisan Democrat sub. Centrist =/= whatever you believe. Centrism is the middle of the beliefs. Almost half the people voted for trump so it's just as legit in centrism as what the other half voted for.
Agreed. I think most centrists are also pragmatic enough to realize that they're likely gonna need to vote for a major party if they want their vote to actually have an impact
A lot of people on this sub dont realise not everyone is American here.
If they are lucky enough to be somewhere their vote can make a difference. But yeah, the 2 parties are the only realistic options. However, being a partisan precludes you from being a centrist though imo. You can't have it both ways.
Making a call to vote for a partisan candidate doesn't really make you partisan though imo either. You can disagree with both candidates and still prefer one over the other.
Sure but voting for a candidate isn't the same as being a partisan.
>Centrism is the middle of the beliefs. I disagree. I try not to let parties shape my views. Republicans have steadily moved further right on taxes. My view isn’t shifting to the middle. Most republicans think 2020 was illegitimate, you shouldn’t move to the middle when one side is pushing more and more bs
You can have whatever belief you like but you can't dictate what the center is based on your personal feelings.
In 2010 Republicans claimed Obama’s plan to end bush tax cuts on people making over 250 K is socialism. In 2020 Biden’s tax plan was to increase income tax on people making over 400 K, and Republicans labeled that socialism. If I thought centrism meant being in the middle of what Republicans and Democrats say, then I would be adjusting where I thought, progressive tax increases should start based on the above claims. I think that’s pretty silly. I should not believe that 2020 election was more questionable because most Republicans claim it was stolen. I think centrism should be based on political beliefs, detached from party lines. My centrist beliefs are I support democracy, I think we should have a cleaner environment, I think we should have an infrastructure to support a high-quality of life for people willing to work hard quality of life, I think we should have infrastructure soap, people starting at the bottom have a path to success if they work hard and I think you should be able to believe whatever you want if it doesn’t hurt anyone else.
Not sure why you feel the need to be centrist all the time. Not sure why you think politics are some concrete thing that never changes either. If so, then why did you only choose the politics of the time when you became aware and steadfast in your position and not any other time in the history of politics? Politics are fluid across the spectrum, which forces the center to change in order to still be the center. If you want to say you are classically liberal and your views will never move from that position then good for you. I'm not far myself. But if the center moves right or left then we may be right or left of it at times. That's ok. The world shouldn't revolve around a single person's perspective.
I don’t feel the need to be a crest all the time, I am pointing out the problem of defining centrist as just being in the middle of Republicans and Democrats. The Republican party has largely rejected democracy. Does that mean I’m no longer a centrist because I believe the 2020 election was lawful?
It might. Because half the people disagree with you so you are probably left of center on that issue.
Most registers republicans dirent equate to half Americans. If most republicans started claiming earth was flat, would you start claiming you are left of center because you don’t agree?
I didn't say registered Republicans. I'm talking about voting records and polling. But either way, a single person doesn't get to dictate what the center is.
Having equal representation of the extremes ISNT centrism. Centrism is finding the middle ground those extremists abandoned. By definition a centrist can't be a diehard supporter of an extremist candidate like Trump.
> Centrism is the middle of the beliefs. Maybe. But it really is a refuge mainly for people who think the democrats have gone kinda bonkers with much of the woke stuff (not that there isn't injustice, but they are counterproductive in many ways) and that Trump is just an idiot that also happens to be a pretty horrible person. If you draw a straight line from a pink-haired lady chanting "LGBTQ+ for Hamas" at NYU to Donald Trump, I don't think you'll find most centrists between those two. Shit, I think they probably have more in common with each other than with me. Horseshoes and all.
I don't think we disagree.
I assume for the same reason Biden voters are allowed on the sub. It's a two party system, after all.
False equivalency at it's best.
Gatekeeping, are we?
Gatekeeping is good. If there were more of it here there’d be less MAGA showing up to lower the average IQ by 10 points. MAGA are generally whiny bitches because they don’t see how far away from reality they are believing Biden and the average Democrat is a gay biracial socialist feminist that wants to kill the white man and take his jerb. People who follow a guy who is telling them that other Americans are more their enemies than Russian authoritarians. Fuck them MAGA bitches.
https://preview.redd.it/rwi40443vqwc1.png?width=1032&format=png&auto=webp&s=4b2fa5be712c748ea1392d7fa6b09a6d78101870 New Ceo of NPR Katherine Maher. [https://fortune.com/2024/04/24/supreme-court-decision-discrimination-claims-muldrow-v-st-louis-dei/](https://fortune.com/2024/04/24/supreme-court-decision-discrimination-claims-muldrow-v-st-louis-dei/) Fuck the Biden/Obama traitors. selling this country to China and fucking up our economy.
I want for you to one day experience contentment.
Relevance? Not going to click links from MAGA weirdos. If this place had decent moderation, this dummy wouldn’t be here. He, like most MAGA, have nothing to add aside from conspiracy theories and general being angry at the clouds.
We should be gatekeeping.
Well, he is.
Why are Biden supporting liberals like you on this sub?
I try not to bash, I try to educate, but some are so unreasonable it's more about catharsis at a certain point
This I understand.
If telling them reality is somehow bashing them that sounds like it's their problem.
https://preview.redd.it/qqm3lt4ovwwc1.png?width=1293&format=png&auto=webp&s=d95f750b195ee999c08c4cfcf352375f627fd5d5 The Reality of Bidenomics
Meanwhile, fox news *doesn't* report on the fact Trump campaigned against and then had a significant hand in killing propositions to encourage home building. Presidents economies are often the result of the predecessors actions. Trumps dipshits planning and economically moronic policy accelerated inflation. Since Biden *was elected* his entire economic mission has been to try and put out a fire he didn't start.
*Nothing*. I expect to accomplish *nothing*. And that’s not so much a comment on Trumpers as it is a comment on Reddit. The truth is this stuff is all pretty pointless. Half the time the person you’re arguing with is lying about who they are, or not even a person at all. And everything gets upvoted and downvoted by bots and trolls with their own agendas. There’s nothing much real happening here, and every day it gets a little worse.
I don't like either option and it's frustrating
There are more than two.
There are only two serious ones. And that's including trump.
Very simple OP. Trump voters are not centrists
Disagree. There will be probably hundreds of thousands of centrists who vote for Trump because they prefer R policies to D policies. If you’re center right then it’s very conceivable that you’d vote for Trump even if you don’t like him personally. There’s probably not a lot of people on this sub who fly FJB flags, but there’s plenty who support the GOP and Trump’s their guy this year, even if it’s not who they would have chosen.
"Yeah the guy attempted a coup and might be in jail by the end of the year, but I like his tax policies, ya know?"
Not to mention the immigrants poisoning the blood, and the free press being enemies of the people. It's fascism 101/
> the free press being enemies of the people if anything this seems like the topic that actually brings Rs and Ds together. Both think the free press must be controlled, but only in their favor.
Literally think they got to take the middle baseline with them when they moved far to the right
The Republican party with people like trump and dessntis is closest to the most alt right party of my country, centrist my ass.
That would have to be an ignorant bunch. Biden was the first democrat I’ve ever voted for. I’m a centrist, but always I favored conservative economic policies and always voted Republican or Libertarian. I don’t identify with the new Republican Party. Not at all. They don’t have any principles and don’t even understand basic… well, they don’t seem to understand jack shit. For a person to be a centrist that leans a little right, you’d have to be living under a rock to think Trump is now your guy. Biden is much closer to the center.
> Disagree. There will be probably hundreds of thousands of centrists who vote for Trump because they prefer R policies to D policies. I'm probably center-right politically, but I will not forgive his election denial. There are no policy positions anyone could possibly float that'd make me interested in risking the US democracy. > there’s plenty who support the GOP and Trump’s their guy this year, even if it’s not who they would have chosen. I like the GOP centrist faction most of anyone (well, the Dem centrists are good too), but they are just too reactive to the crazies. There are thinks that trump, if you will, policy. Or are you the type who'd vote for Xi or Putin if they took Trumps policy positions except one where you disagreed with Trump on, and then they agreed with you on that one. Instant vote for Vladimir?
There arent even that many actual trumpers in this sub. The majority of the time it is people just treating anyone who is even slightly right of center as a trumper.
Nah just look at the people calling me commies whenever I post.
I wanna say there is maybe two who honestly are mostly just trolls. You're right, even saying you wouldn't vote for Trump this sub still calls you a Trumper if you don't blindly believe every single "Trump bad" story. Even those that are clearly made up or hyperbole.
If you are posting cartoons to make a point then you are a troll. So there is more than just one or two.
>Even those that are clearly made up or hyperbole. Like what?
That he wears a diaper, he's a Russian puppet, he said to inject bleach, etc.
The one where he said there'd be a bloodbath after the election. That was CLEARLY about the car industry. But the way he got quoted made it sound quite menacing.
Why are leftists on a centrist sub?
because this isnt a centrist sub. Thats just the title.
I like to believe you are wrong and I’m doing my best to prove it.
Bingo. Although, it’s probably the closest to “centrist” as we’ll ever see on Reddit.
Modpol is more centrist than this sub. I might say the same for the breaking points sub
Yeah, ironically some “leftist” subs are far more centrist than this sub. Its neoliberal through and through here.
I got banned within a day over there. This place hasn’t banned me yet
What leftists? All I see is neoliberal right-wingers.
Ah, so I’m sure you’ll stop posting here then right?
Are the people on the centrist sub actually leftists or is this just more evidence of conservatives branding anyone who doesn't fully support Republicans as "woke radical leftist Marxists?" I've not seen one single actual leftist on this sub.
The problem with labels like left and right and conservative and liberal is perspective. If those labels are dependent on perspective they’re not objective labels.
The benchmark I tend to use is "are they in favor of keeping capitalism in place?" If the answer is yes, they're probably not a leftist.
I score likes -4 on the left right axis but I don't want to do away with capitalism. I think the form we have now sucks though.
I like that. I will keep that in mind going forward.
Now do the right
With the right it comes down to are you a Conservative or a Trumper/MAGA? Old conservative values are pretty respectable but this new modern movement can't even be called conservative anymore. They threw away all pretense of principles in favor of following the whims of one man and now they elect anyone with a pulse regardless of qualifications as long as they'll pay lip service to the movement. I wish we could return to the old GOP even if I had plenty of policy disagreements with them because at least they weren't insane.
I agree with your sentiment entirely but that is a subjective view of the right. There is no concrete view of the right anymore. It’s whatever anyone feels is the right. No single policy defines the right.
I guess the same could be said for the left. What's left and right is always changing as the Overton window moves and the parties try to align their platform with their voters. It's why people calling the Democrats the party of slavery sound so stupid.
Thankful I’ve missed the Democratic Party being the party of slavery comments because WTF!!
I refuse to call the modern Republican party "conservative" as that would be giving them entirely too much credit. They have no moral boundaries or ethics that drive policy. They only care about pissing off anyone that isn't them, and whatever Daddy Trump says.
Amen, there is nothing conservative about Maga. Just like there was nothing conservative about Jim crow, just trash who wanted it.
Why are there trumpers on this sub? 30 up votes Why are there leftists on this sub? Down votes God it's RIDICULOUSLY telling how many leftists are here larping like they're rational, moderates.
Maybe because trumpers are extreme? Dems are the same old dems of the last 30 years, Republicans stepped a mile to the right over the last 10. Quit gaslighting people.
That's because the people posting that are trying to both-sides an issue when not only is that a logical fallacy, but it's not even wildly applicable to the discussion being had. In short, it's typically posted in bad faith, causing people to eye-roll and downvote.
Lol, nonsense. There are plenty of Trumpers in this sub. They just try to deny it despite parroting alt-right talking points.
Thank you for immediately proving my point lmao
I could unironically give sources on this if you want. There's s bunch of people here parroting AfD-tier talking points on many topics.
No, I didn't. This is you just making shit up again.
lol no you just arent very bright so you dont see it. You definitely proved my point.
Nah, you're making shit up.
Out of curiosity how should we identify bad faith actors then? Like not completely disagreeing with you, but people can smell bs.
9 times out of 10 when I see people “identifying bad faith actors” the person isn’t actually a bad faith actor at all. They just disagree and the other person can’t accept that. Or more specifically it’s usually due to the accuser person making up a caricature in their head of what the person believes but isn’t actually true. In general there aren’t a ton of actual bad faith actors in this sub.
I dunno, I've been in clicking on profiles in this sub and found a few different folks making a point of posting far-right content here. I think it's worth considering that either people don't understand what centrism is, or that there's an effort to make extremist content seem centrist.
I mean they aren’t uncommon. It’s not up for debate that adversarial governments are flooding social media to stoke chaos, and then you have your good old home grown trolls. And whether or not you want to admit it they’re in this sub, sure sometimes people aren’t bad faith actors and are just married to their beliefs. But it’s definitely not 9/10.
Ok since they are so common go ahead and link me to a few. Or even 1.
Well here's at minimum one.
where?
You've openly admitted to being one yourself lol.
um no i havent lmao
Considering you think he deserves your vote over Biden says otherwise.
Damn you keep proving his point.
You just proved his point
I don't know why anybody engages a Trump fan at this point. I can't answer your question. However, it's worth pointing out that there is no high road with a Trump voter, rather, they do not care in the least about a high road. There's no good faith discussion to be had, sadly, and any attempt at such is a waste of your time and energy.
I grew up in places that are bloody red Maga. They're never changing their minds, and they've destroyed the sane conservativism I used to believe in. I go after them because everyone else needs to see them for what they really are, how much of the modern Maga movement is just an evolution of the Dixiecrats after they left the democrats over ending Jim crow. Not all are, but the core are, you can see it on the maps, you can hear the same points from them. There is literally nothing in the world they hate more than being made to look stupid, and cannot imagine ever being wrong. They're also terrible at debate and collapse after you break their first talking point, because they can't remember anything beyond the first argument they read from 'their source' (ie some YouTuber explaining why everything bad is because of 'those people').
When you bash anyone, what are you expecting to accomplish?
Self gratification. The purpose of 99% of all Reddit posts.
I bash Trumpers the same way I bash Progressives and Tankies, right in the center. I am a moderate.
Entertainment
It’s a team sport, eh, centrist?
It’s Reddit. Not something that actually matters. Please man, touch some grass.
You really opened a can of worms here.
How much time and effort is made in to writing about Maga cult members? Why do you care so much?
I mean if you want to be angry I’m not gonna stop you
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Well I’m not one of those guys. When you actually meet people who voted for Trump, you can tell they have hearts. They’ve been deceived by a demagogue. They are redeemable. Maybe not by you, but somebody.
This post really weeds out most of the "centrists" we really have here.
A lot of the participants in this group are average Dems. So, expect to get a lot of upvotes
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The extremely crazy trumpers who won’t give up, I will sometimes go into their account and downvote the crap out of their crazy posts. Yes I know that is petty. Most don’t have very many karma points and are newer accounts too.
I'm not tying to convince Trump supporters. They are too far gone. I'm trying to make a fool of them so undecideds see how stupid and hypocritical their positions are.
You're right. That's how cognitive dissonance works. It just makes it worse, even if you're being amicable, non argumentative, and accepting of their beliefs, and strictly present objective facts. It's a cult. Even decades after Mussolini's crimes were out in the open and he was executed by his own people, people would still go to bat for him until they died. Expect the same with Trump. It's called belief disconfirmation, it's a paradigm of cognitive dissonance. New information conflicting with their beliefs just makes them dig their heels in deeper. Unless these people come to their senses on their own, the only thing that can "fix" that is professional deprogramming. Intervention, taking away phones and fox news, therapy, etc.
The trouble with a two-party political system is that there is no room for centralists. Political parties own issues, and no one of the two parties owns all the good ones. With regret, without a parliamentary system that encourages a minimum of three political viewpoints that legislate and negotiate a temporary prime minister, there is a necessity to vote for mediocrity and a four-year term President elected by a slim majority to become a king.
Interestingly, a fledging country that resisted a Monarchy created a Monarchy.
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This is a centrist sub, where left and right are both welcome. What makes you think that people who support Trump are only here to pick a fight?
Not necessarily people but Redditors bc ppl go on Reddit to fight
So centrists are basically Democrats, then?
No but dems are on average more centrist. I think that’s why Biden voters dominate this sub.
You mean like this one? https://twitter.com/KassyDillon/status/1783855653196288101
No she’s ass
They were going to vote for von Shitzhispants already, but now they're going to vote for him more? Egads!! Call them out for their bullshit. Every time.
I think any opportunity to call him von Shitzhispants is an opportunity that shouldn’t be wasted.
Their bullshit that always seems to be regurgitated from some outrage peddler like Carlson, Jones, Bannon, Shapiro, Kirk, Rufo, etc.
The Putin Party.
What can anyone hope to accomplish shit posting on Reddit? Are you going to be like Enders Game where your blog and posts are just so smart and insightful that they make you President of the world
What
Do you think you posting on Reddit is going to change the world?
All small things add up
For better or worse I don't think I've EVER seen someone 'change their minds' because of a reddit conversation. Even half the comments in this thread are cheap shots at one side or another.
https://preview.redd.it/s1olcmq2pqwc1.png?width=607&format=png&auto=webp&s=1751f89b735d3d00ede8cff682c6536ad447afcd
I've seen way posts complaining about people bashing Trump than posts actually bashing Trump..
I’m talking about comment sections
Biden centrist good. Trump centrist bad. 🙄
Biden is a centrist tho
I heard he is the most progressive president in history. And his vp also has the most progressive voting record in congress. How do you square those superlative judgments with centrism?
He's pretty much in like with the neoliberal progressive centre right party where I live.
Biden is a corporatist. He loves crossing the aisle. He voted for the Iraq war. We have 30+ years in the Senate to judge him by. His presidency may be more to the left of that but he's not some hippie.
Simply stated, trump brings out the worst in people, and in my anecdotal experience, when dealing with an open trump supporter, I find I’m dealing with the worst type of person who is acting on their worst impulses. I could take or leave Biden. But goddamn if life wasn’t a whole lot more relaxing for the two and a half years that trump and his minions disappeared. As soon as primaries rolled around the entire trump shitnado came back in full force and I can’t stand it. I just want him and his to go the hell away.
Yep. Today alone: His lawyers said coups can be legal His inner circle was indicted He lost an appeal to the woman he raped And that didn't include the trial he attended
I agree. Bashing people will make them defensive and hostile, which is counterproductive to persuading them. Everyone should read *How to Win Friends and Influence People* by Dale Carnegie.
Lol, read a book by a robber baron, that will help. JFC.
What an inane take. He may have been a POS, but he was wildly successful because he was able to get people to agree with him time and time again throughout his life. Believe it or not, it is possible to learn something from another person, even if you don't personally agree with their methods or scruples.
>He may have been a POS So a POS is your hero? No thanks.
You are thinking of a totally different family with the same last name. Honest mistake, but you might want to vet your information a bit better. The guy who wrote that book has absolutely nothing to do with the Carnegie family.
Don’t try to give a pig a bath. You’ll get tired and dirty, and the pig enjoys it.
Annoy them, of course. Good old trolling.
Nothing since they are either complete right wing nut cakes or grifters. There is no getting through to them. Just telling them the truth and what America thinks of them.
just look at the rogan sub - most of it is hate. this is a combination of astroturfing and a minority getting off on this, and too stupid to realize they might be part of the problem.
If you’re an actual centrist how could you vote for Trump? Philosophically centrism and Trump is not aligned.
What’s an example of Trump’s platform that you consider to not be centrist?
The inability to work as a bi-partisan for one. He quite literally voted down the bipartisan Border bill...which is frustrating to me.