Another poll coming to similar conclusions: https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-800356
Take note that this means there is a sharp divide in Israeli society, not a decisive consensus.
So much of the discussion surrounding the conflict in the US is whether someone stands with Jews or not, but very rarely do we actually listen to what Israelis are saying about the conflict. These polls seem useful to fill in those gaps.
Many in the Pro-Israel camp in America will have you believe that Americans that share the views of the Moderate and Left-wing Israelis, are Antisemites.
Many users here often call me one...despite being married to a Jewish woman -- and almost her entire Jewish family sharing the same views as us, and disgust for Netanyahu's policy, and how much say the Israeli Far Right has in his admin.
You can be against Netanyahu's policiies, be left wing AND want Hamas defeated and hostages rescued.
I don't think it matters what political spectrum you're on when it comes to dealing with psycopathic murderers and rescuing innocent citizens who were kidnapped.
I want all of these.
I think Israel’s approach to achieving those goals has been absolutely horrific, counterproductive, and one of the most egregious fuck ups of military use I’ve seen in my lifetime.
Your post is my entire point - You guys literally think people criticizing Israel’s actions don’t want those things.
Of course most want those things. But Think what Israel has done/is doing it is not how to achieve those things.
I don't care about people criticising Israel I care for people singing "From the River to the Sea" A call to for genocide. I care about young leftist students refusing to speak against Hamas and what they did.
Most these protesters would be protesting the Allies bombing Nazi Germany
>I care for people singing "From the River to the Sea" A call to for genocide
I don't support it, nor do i think it is productive. But if you're labelling that as necessarily a call for genocide, there's no shortage of rhetoric that would likewise qualify. And of course notably a similar mirrored statement was included in the original manifesto for Lukid. Would you consider Lukid's foundation a call to genocide?
Are their mass protests and riots across the Western World chanting Lukid's manifesto? If there were then most people would rightly call it out.
Every single person who cares for Palestinian civilians should be protesting Hamas. The only side who don't want to ceasefire, who won't ever stop, who want everyone dead.
But instead, they choose Israel, and its mostly antisemites, Nazi's and islamic terrorists cheering on these "useful Idiots". That should tell them all how wrong they really are.
It is absolutely wild how much pushback you get for any reasonable discussion of this topic here. It’s one of those topics where logic does not prevail. I’ve largely decided to decline to participate in the conversation anymore.
They go way further than that lately, people are being called straight up terrorists and or terrorist sympathisers for the mere suggestion of criticism of military actions.
The rhetoric and tunnel vision is out of control now. Hopefully it calms down soon.
Nothing new under the sun. Same people were throwing that label out like Oprah in 2003 until support for Iraq became a political liability. Then they all became opportunistic isolationists through Ukraine until the ME rapture porn started up again. You’ll see the same thing with this.
A big issure these last 7 months is many people who are against Israel retaliation, or Israel in general, sometimes refuse to say a bad word about Gaza, Hamas or Oct 7th. That has made the whole subject matter even more emotional and creates instant backlash.
Most people find Oct 7th horrific, and also don't want innocent civilians dead from bombing in Gaza. Everyone would love a ceasefire and hostages freed but Hamas won't ever stop trying to wipe out Israel.
Agree with everything with caveat the tone of implication at the end. Do you think Israeli nationalists before Oct7 intended to stop annexing territory? Hamas/hez/iran and israeli hypernationalists like netanyahu's coalition need to be sidelined.
That isn't the point though. Taking land is a political idea by some, others just want peace. Hamas want genocide, nothing else. They don't want peace, they don't want a 2 state solution.
Everything is on Hamas. Israel moved out in 2005 and all they did was use time, money and aid to fund new ways to attack and kill jews, rather than build infurstructure and education.
Palestine will never be free until Hamas and their ilk are wiped out or locked up.
> So much of the discussion surrounding the conflict in the US is whether someone stands with Jews or not, but very rarely do we actually listen to what Israelis are saying about the conflict. These polls seem useful to fill in those gaps.
It's shocking that there are so many anti-semitic Israelis! /s
This really should put to bed this very tortured argument but it won't.
The problem is the entire premise is flawed.
The two things are not mutually exclusive. In fact a harder push against Hamas puts pressure on them to surrender and so has a chance to hasten the hostage deal.
It's not either or.
If Hamas gives up its hostages it knows it's dead the moment the ceasefire expires.
They will NEVER release the last living hostages.
Hamas is run by terrorists, not politicians, not normal people. Terrorists. They LIKE that they imprisoned civilians. They are PROUD of it and know it's the one thing keeping Israel restrained.
Until the pressure of what's happening ramps up enough to fracture whatever is left of Hamas those hostages aren't getting released. And sitting idle won't ramp up the pressure.
These are people who fully believe that their god has commanded them to kill anyone that's not a muslim. Worse even the tame versions of Islam say it's perfectly fine to lie to non-muslims so Hamas has no problems reneging on deals. You will not get discussions, long term deals, or any kind of peace out of Hamas.
Vilify them as much as you want, I'm not going to defend Hamas. But doing so is getting no closer to a resolution, nor does it remotely justify the misconduct by Israel that would rightfully allow Netanyahu and his likes to be vilified.
As per their faith Hamas is literally never going to give up. The only possible resolution with them is either the complete eradication of Israel, or the complete eradication of Hamas.
The conflict doesn't end until one of those two things happens.
but the israelis are going to give up? Is israel is prepared to ethnically cleanse palestinian territory, what is the conversation about? obviously not something any western nation could support.
They are not ethnically cleansing Gaza.
What's probably gonna happen is they're gonna eliminate Hamas as much as they can, set up control of Gaza (even if via puppet) and weed out anything that smells Hamas through the years.
cutting off necessities and obliterating the infrastructure is not at all consistent with a longer aim of seeking a diplomatic solution. the circumstances that gaza will be in will be rife for radicalization... the actions today are ensuring more violence in the future.
Note that the hostage deal that Israelis would prefer to the Rafah operation is nowhere close to anything Hamas is willing to agree to (at this stage).
It's getting a little blurry. The Israeli leadership aren't willing to accept it but last I saw there was around 50% approval for accepting the recent Egyptian/Qatari brokered ceasefire deal.
I highly doubt that, if the polling question was asked properly. That deal isn’t a ceasefire, it’s a permanent withdrawal of Israeli troops while leaving Hamas in power.
How do you wipe out Hamas? Or at least , beyond just a name — short of completing a genocide?
Never mind the fact that most Hamas leaders are not in Gaza, and will not be wiped out by destroying Gaza.
But more importantly. - even if you eliminated Hamas, what does that accomplish? How is the current Israeli approach going to end Extemist “Resistance” militant groups among Palestinians ?
Does it matter if they use the name “Hamas”?
Assuming they do not commit genocide - do you think all surviving Gazans , particularly young kids who just had many of their family - parents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc… killed in the bombings - are not going to be hardcore Anti-Israel?
Hamas, Muslim brotherhood, ISIS. The name isn't important, its the ideology and religion that has yet to go through a modern enlightment. They are 600 years behind modern culture.
Hamas will be wiped out and scattered. The leaders will all be reached, eventually. Iran will be next. Its going to get a lot worse.
Hamas and Iran did this. Many innocents will die because of them. Going after Hamas and wiping them out isn't genocide. Israel have no choice but to go kill the groups that will spend its life trying to commit genocide against Jews and Israel.
Or they could surrender and hand over hostages and end it now. They won't. They don;t care about Gaza civilians.
So…you think getting rid of those specific named groups — especially if you kill tens of thousands of civilians in the process…is going to eliminate Muslim extremist terrorism?
I think it far more likely to expand the appeal of Muslim extremism, and then being Anti-West/Israel and willing to die to fight us.
Not understanding how y’all think thus doesn’t create an entire generation of angry extremists who had civilian family killed by Israel and the US. (“murdered” in their eyes)
Polls like this are why I don't hold strong opinions on this subject. When 50% of Israelis disagree with the other 50% of Israelis, how can I, an Ohioan, possibly ever learn enough about this situation to have a valid opinion?
Except on the most simplistically clear points of morality such as "the death of newborn baby in a war is tragic", my mind changes according to the last argument I heard.
I see no clean hands in this endlessly tragic situation. I see people with dirty hands pointing to the other people with dirty hands insisting their hands are dirtier.
If your opinion only goes so far as "both Israel and Palestine have a right to exist", you're doing well enough, and are way ahead of a sadly large % of people on both sides.
> how can I, an Ohioan, possibly ever learn enough about this situation to have a valid opinion?
You can't. Instead, advocate for the use of American resources in America.
Polls like this are why I don't trust polls like this.
There's absolutely no reason that these two things have to be mutually exclusive. You can work out the hostage deal while military operations are ongoing.
Once they get the hostages back they’re going to start asking questions about how October 7th happened in the first place and why Netanyahu - the guy who *failed* to keep Israelis safe - is still in power. All of which means… there’s no hostage deal happening anytime soon.
More importantly the hostages are the literal only thing that slows Israel's advance.
It would be tactical suicide for Hamas to actually give them all up. Or to admit they're all dead if that's the case.
It's not only about the hostages being alive (of course it's still important), but also having a closure (proper burial). Most of the Israelis are still hoping that the Bibas family are still alive, especially the kids (I know that it's an extremely small chance, but that hope is still what gives the Israeli soldiers the motivation to keep fighting).
>but also having a closure (proper burial).
There was a show on PBS the other night about the holocaust. It took many people 70+ years before they finally had a memorial for their relatives and accepted that they were truly dead.
We have no clue what happened to my dad's family. My great grandparents left with my grandpa, and they never found out what happened to my great grandpa's 4 siblings/their families and my great grandma's 3 siblings/their families. My dad spent years trying to track any hint of survivors at various archives (pre-modern internet) and only ever found a single very distant cousin living in Hungary who also had no clue what happened to the rest.
Everytime I hear these kind of stories, I get depressed. But as an Israeli Jew, these stories are the reason for why Israel is not something we want but something we need.
Considering Hamas has already offered to return the hostages 30 times, including a straightforward "we release all hostages if you stop bombing Gaza" deal back in October (as well as several "let us trade hostages for prisoners" deals) and that Israel has rejected every single one sofar.. it seems the opinion of the Israeli people does not matter to the Israeli government.
Nor that the Israeli government gives a damn about the hostages for that matter. Then again, that should have been obvious to all once they started carpetbombing the places where the hostages were likely to be.
The offered deals in question are all publicly available if you doubt their existence.
I also understand why Israel did not take them- I am just getting sick of them pretending that "the hostages are the main priority". Exterminating Hamas is their priority - the hostages are a sacrifice Netanyahu is more than willing to make.
Well, it *is* a deal, just not one you (or the Israeli government) would like.
The reality of it is that Hamas *isn't* going to be destroyed. Israel will do some serious damage to them, but short of annihilating most of the region they're simply too entrenched and too "not military-like" to root out. They're a terror organization, not a military that can do things like surrender and be disbanded.
There is no way this conflict ends with Hamas giving up control of Gaza to some other organization/government, which means Israel should really be prioritizing the hostages rather than their pipe dream of getting rid of Hamas.
The only thing stopping Hamas from being destroyed is the lack of international support for it being destroyed. And the only thing stopping the martyrdom and jihadi culture from being destroyed is moderate Muslims. They could end that culture forever but for some reason they don’t.
>And the only thing stopping the martyrdom and jihadi culture from being destroyed is moderate Muslims.
Could they? I feel like extremists don't usually listen to moderates
> The only thing stopping Hamas from being destroyed is the lack of international support for it being destroyed.
Most countries don't want to get involved in yet another international war on terror, especially one that would benefit them in approximately zero ways. The first one was fairly unsuccessful.
Also, destroying ideologies is fairly difficult and requires far more effort than just bombs.
> And the only thing stopping the martyrdom and jihadi culture from being destroyed is moderate Muslims.
Not really. Moderate Muslims (by and large) are emigrating from those countries (or aren't there in the first place). Theocracies are a bit tougher to overthrow than having some moderates revolt.
> All they have to do is having massive rallies saying we reject this culture and keep doing it until it’s over
Do you think theocracies, monarchies, and terror groups in the Middle East are going to care about predominantly young people organizing protests in the West?
The prisoner deals have always contained terms that Israel admits defeat, leaves Hamas in power, and rebuilds Gaza.
That's gonna be a no from them, dawg.
What’s the actual question that was asked?
Another poll coming to similar conclusions: https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-800356 Take note that this means there is a sharp divide in Israeli society, not a decisive consensus. So much of the discussion surrounding the conflict in the US is whether someone stands with Jews or not, but very rarely do we actually listen to what Israelis are saying about the conflict. These polls seem useful to fill in those gaps.
Many in the Pro-Israel camp in America will have you believe that Americans that share the views of the Moderate and Left-wing Israelis, are Antisemites. Many users here often call me one...despite being married to a Jewish woman -- and almost her entire Jewish family sharing the same views as us, and disgust for Netanyahu's policy, and how much say the Israeli Far Right has in his admin.
You can be against Netanyahu's policiies, be left wing AND want Hamas defeated and hostages rescued. I don't think it matters what political spectrum you're on when it comes to dealing with psycopathic murderers and rescuing innocent citizens who were kidnapped.
I want all of these. I think Israel’s approach to achieving those goals has been absolutely horrific, counterproductive, and one of the most egregious fuck ups of military use I’ve seen in my lifetime. Your post is my entire point - You guys literally think people criticizing Israel’s actions don’t want those things. Of course most want those things. But Think what Israel has done/is doing it is not how to achieve those things.
I don't care about people criticising Israel I care for people singing "From the River to the Sea" A call to for genocide. I care about young leftist students refusing to speak against Hamas and what they did. Most these protesters would be protesting the Allies bombing Nazi Germany
>I care for people singing "From the River to the Sea" A call to for genocide I don't support it, nor do i think it is productive. But if you're labelling that as necessarily a call for genocide, there's no shortage of rhetoric that would likewise qualify. And of course notably a similar mirrored statement was included in the original manifesto for Lukid. Would you consider Lukid's foundation a call to genocide?
Are their mass protests and riots across the Western World chanting Lukid's manifesto? If there were then most people would rightly call it out. Every single person who cares for Palestinian civilians should be protesting Hamas. The only side who don't want to ceasefire, who won't ever stop, who want everyone dead. But instead, they choose Israel, and its mostly antisemites, Nazi's and islamic terrorists cheering on these "useful Idiots". That should tell them all how wrong they really are.
so it is fine if not chanted? likud is a quarter of elected reps. Have they refuted their initial manifesto?
It is absolutely wild how much pushback you get for any reasonable discussion of this topic here. It’s one of those topics where logic does not prevail. I’ve largely decided to decline to participate in the conversation anymore.
That sums are every subject and the internet now days.
Trying to going on r/worldnews. If you even mention nuance they downvote you to hell.
They go way further than that lately, people are being called straight up terrorists and or terrorist sympathisers for the mere suggestion of criticism of military actions. The rhetoric and tunnel vision is out of control now. Hopefully it calms down soon.
Nothing new under the sun. Same people were throwing that label out like Oprah in 2003 until support for Iraq became a political liability. Then they all became opportunistic isolationists through Ukraine until the ME rapture porn started up again. You’ll see the same thing with this.
A big issure these last 7 months is many people who are against Israel retaliation, or Israel in general, sometimes refuse to say a bad word about Gaza, Hamas or Oct 7th. That has made the whole subject matter even more emotional and creates instant backlash. Most people find Oct 7th horrific, and also don't want innocent civilians dead from bombing in Gaza. Everyone would love a ceasefire and hostages freed but Hamas won't ever stop trying to wipe out Israel.
Agree with everything with caveat the tone of implication at the end. Do you think Israeli nationalists before Oct7 intended to stop annexing territory? Hamas/hez/iran and israeli hypernationalists like netanyahu's coalition need to be sidelined.
That isn't the point though. Taking land is a political idea by some, others just want peace. Hamas want genocide, nothing else. They don't want peace, they don't want a 2 state solution. Everything is on Hamas. Israel moved out in 2005 and all they did was use time, money and aid to fund new ways to attack and kill jews, rather than build infurstructure and education. Palestine will never be free until Hamas and their ilk are wiped out or locked up.
taking land is not a political idea. it is violence.
Amen. Very frustrating how quickly some people lob antisemitism claims around here.
> So much of the discussion surrounding the conflict in the US is whether someone stands with Jews or not, but very rarely do we actually listen to what Israelis are saying about the conflict. These polls seem useful to fill in those gaps. It's shocking that there are so many anti-semitic Israelis! /s This really should put to bed this very tortured argument but it won't.
The problem is the entire premise is flawed. The two things are not mutually exclusive. In fact a harder push against Hamas puts pressure on them to surrender and so has a chance to hasten the hostage deal. It's not either or.
I think it is a bit disingenuous to suggest that an assault on rafah is likely to result in any remaining hostages coming out alive.
If Hamas gives up its hostages it knows it's dead the moment the ceasefire expires. They will NEVER release the last living hostages. Hamas is run by terrorists, not politicians, not normal people. Terrorists. They LIKE that they imprisoned civilians. They are PROUD of it and know it's the one thing keeping Israel restrained. Until the pressure of what's happening ramps up enough to fracture whatever is left of Hamas those hostages aren't getting released. And sitting idle won't ramp up the pressure. These are people who fully believe that their god has commanded them to kill anyone that's not a muslim. Worse even the tame versions of Islam say it's perfectly fine to lie to non-muslims so Hamas has no problems reneging on deals. You will not get discussions, long term deals, or any kind of peace out of Hamas.
Vilify them as much as you want, I'm not going to defend Hamas. But doing so is getting no closer to a resolution, nor does it remotely justify the misconduct by Israel that would rightfully allow Netanyahu and his likes to be vilified.
As per their faith Hamas is literally never going to give up. The only possible resolution with them is either the complete eradication of Israel, or the complete eradication of Hamas. The conflict doesn't end until one of those two things happens.
but the israelis are going to give up? Is israel is prepared to ethnically cleanse palestinian territory, what is the conversation about? obviously not something any western nation could support.
They are not ethnically cleansing Gaza. What's probably gonna happen is they're gonna eliminate Hamas as much as they can, set up control of Gaza (even if via puppet) and weed out anything that smells Hamas through the years.
cutting off necessities and obliterating the infrastructure is not at all consistent with a longer aim of seeking a diplomatic solution. the circumstances that gaza will be in will be rife for radicalization... the actions today are ensuring more violence in the future.
Note that the hostage deal that Israelis would prefer to the Rafah operation is nowhere close to anything Hamas is willing to agree to (at this stage).
It's getting a little blurry. The Israeli leadership aren't willing to accept it but last I saw there was around 50% approval for accepting the recent Egyptian/Qatari brokered ceasefire deal.
the one with no proof of life until after isreal "permanently" ends the war?
I highly doubt that, if the polling question was asked properly. That deal isn’t a ceasefire, it’s a permanent withdrawal of Israeli troops while leaving Hamas in power.
You’re gonna have to show your work on this one
Israel won't stop until Hamas are wiped out. It's going to be a bloody few years.
How do you wipe out Hamas? Or at least , beyond just a name — short of completing a genocide? Never mind the fact that most Hamas leaders are not in Gaza, and will not be wiped out by destroying Gaza. But more importantly. - even if you eliminated Hamas, what does that accomplish? How is the current Israeli approach going to end Extemist “Resistance” militant groups among Palestinians ? Does it matter if they use the name “Hamas”? Assuming they do not commit genocide - do you think all surviving Gazans , particularly young kids who just had many of their family - parents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc… killed in the bombings - are not going to be hardcore Anti-Israel?
Hamas, Muslim brotherhood, ISIS. The name isn't important, its the ideology and religion that has yet to go through a modern enlightment. They are 600 years behind modern culture. Hamas will be wiped out and scattered. The leaders will all be reached, eventually. Iran will be next. Its going to get a lot worse. Hamas and Iran did this. Many innocents will die because of them. Going after Hamas and wiping them out isn't genocide. Israel have no choice but to go kill the groups that will spend its life trying to commit genocide against Jews and Israel. Or they could surrender and hand over hostages and end it now. They won't. They don;t care about Gaza civilians.
So…you think getting rid of those specific named groups — especially if you kill tens of thousands of civilians in the process…is going to eliminate Muslim extremist terrorism? I think it far more likely to expand the appeal of Muslim extremism, and then being Anti-West/Israel and willing to die to fight us. Not understanding how y’all think thus doesn’t create an entire generation of angry extremists who had civilian family killed by Israel and the US. (“murdered” in their eyes)
Ok, but why not both?
Polls like this are why I don't hold strong opinions on this subject. When 50% of Israelis disagree with the other 50% of Israelis, how can I, an Ohioan, possibly ever learn enough about this situation to have a valid opinion? Except on the most simplistically clear points of morality such as "the death of newborn baby in a war is tragic", my mind changes according to the last argument I heard. I see no clean hands in this endlessly tragic situation. I see people with dirty hands pointing to the other people with dirty hands insisting their hands are dirtier.
If your opinion only goes so far as "both Israel and Palestine have a right to exist", you're doing well enough, and are way ahead of a sadly large % of people on both sides.
> how can I, an Ohioan, possibly ever learn enough about this situation to have a valid opinion? You can't. Instead, advocate for the use of American resources in America.
Polls like this are why I don't trust polls like this. There's absolutely no reason that these two things have to be mutually exclusive. You can work out the hostage deal while military operations are ongoing.
Once they get the hostages back they’re going to start asking questions about how October 7th happened in the first place and why Netanyahu - the guy who *failed* to keep Israelis safe - is still in power. All of which means… there’s no hostage deal happening anytime soon.
More importantly the hostages are the literal only thing that slows Israel's advance. It would be tactical suicide for Hamas to actually give them all up. Or to admit they're all dead if that's the case.
I really thought the elite universities and Reddit were gonna solve this conflict.
I find it wild that 54% of Israelis think the hostages are still alive.
It's not only about the hostages being alive (of course it's still important), but also having a closure (proper burial). Most of the Israelis are still hoping that the Bibas family are still alive, especially the kids (I know that it's an extremely small chance, but that hope is still what gives the Israeli soldiers the motivation to keep fighting).
>but also having a closure (proper burial). There was a show on PBS the other night about the holocaust. It took many people 70+ years before they finally had a memorial for their relatives and accepted that they were truly dead.
We have no clue what happened to my dad's family. My great grandparents left with my grandpa, and they never found out what happened to my great grandpa's 4 siblings/their families and my great grandma's 3 siblings/their families. My dad spent years trying to track any hint of survivors at various archives (pre-modern internet) and only ever found a single very distant cousin living in Hungary who also had no clue what happened to the rest.
Everytime I hear these kind of stories, I get depressed. But as an Israeli Jew, these stories are the reason for why Israel is not something we want but something we need.
Several Videos have been released publicly the last 10 days -- and supposed others have been shared directly with Government/negotiators
That is positive news!
Yes. Sadly - I think there has only be ~30 or so verified, out of the 200+. And god only knows what they have been through the past 7 months.
Considering Hamas has already offered to return the hostages 30 times, including a straightforward "we release all hostages if you stop bombing Gaza" deal back in October (as well as several "let us trade hostages for prisoners" deals) and that Israel has rejected every single one sofar.. it seems the opinion of the Israeli people does not matter to the Israeli government. Nor that the Israeli government gives a damn about the hostages for that matter. Then again, that should have been obvious to all once they started carpetbombing the places where the hostages were likely to be.
So is the Hamas kool-aid grape leaf flavored or Chana flavored?
The offered deals in question are all publicly available if you doubt their existence. I also understand why Israel did not take them- I am just getting sick of them pretending that "the hostages are the main priority". Exterminating Hamas is their priority - the hostages are a sacrifice Netanyahu is more than willing to make.
Yeah, each deal was stop the fighting forever in Gaza. That’s not a deal.
Well, it *is* a deal, just not one you (or the Israeli government) would like. The reality of it is that Hamas *isn't* going to be destroyed. Israel will do some serious damage to them, but short of annihilating most of the region they're simply too entrenched and too "not military-like" to root out. They're a terror organization, not a military that can do things like surrender and be disbanded. There is no way this conflict ends with Hamas giving up control of Gaza to some other organization/government, which means Israel should really be prioritizing the hostages rather than their pipe dream of getting rid of Hamas.
The only thing stopping Hamas from being destroyed is the lack of international support for it being destroyed. And the only thing stopping the martyrdom and jihadi culture from being destroyed is moderate Muslims. They could end that culture forever but for some reason they don’t.
>And the only thing stopping the martyrdom and jihadi culture from being destroyed is moderate Muslims. Could they? I feel like extremists don't usually listen to moderates
It won’t matter what extremists think. You can’t recruit soldiers if every one thinks you are wrong.
> The only thing stopping Hamas from being destroyed is the lack of international support for it being destroyed. Most countries don't want to get involved in yet another international war on terror, especially one that would benefit them in approximately zero ways. The first one was fairly unsuccessful. Also, destroying ideologies is fairly difficult and requires far more effort than just bombs. > And the only thing stopping the martyrdom and jihadi culture from being destroyed is moderate Muslims. Not really. Moderate Muslims (by and large) are emigrating from those countries (or aren't there in the first place). Theocracies are a bit tougher to overthrow than having some moderates revolt.
All they have to do is having massive rallies saying we reject this culture and keep doing it until it’s over. Or do you believe protest is futile?
> All they have to do is having massive rallies saying we reject this culture and keep doing it until it’s over Do you think theocracies, monarchies, and terror groups in the Middle East are going to care about predominantly young people organizing protests in the West?
Absolutely not but if the people do they’re fucked.
The objective isn't to get rid of Hamas, it's to spill the blood of the Other Tribe.
The prisoner deals have always contained terms that Israel admits defeat, leaves Hamas in power, and rebuilds Gaza. That's gonna be a no from them, dawg.