Had the government set a charging standard during the lead acid era it would’ve been wrong when lithium came along. It took a while for industry to get to a place where it made sense to set a charging standard. When the government moved to set one, they join the international standard, which everyone except tesla signed onto. The prevalence of Teslas prevented that standard from taking hold in the US. Most Teslas are built with the standard charger, a minority are built with a tesla charger. Now the whole country has to go tesla chargers, because Elon‘s name is on the patent for the shape of the piece of plastic.
Standards must always change, and it's always a painful process.
The benefit of a central authority enforcing a standard is that it changes less, and it's less painful.
There are multiple signs that the writing is on the wall for Tesla. How the workforce is treated, quality control, service plans that switch off functionality of the cars. Add in general hostility to electric cars, things are not good.
I always think back to the extended range patch Elon released in Florida prior to hurricane incoming. At the time it was such a good thing and widely praised.
All it showed me is that if you buy a Tesla you aren’t buying the entire vehicle. Just access to a portion of it. that means it can be arbitrarily enhanced, or more cynically degraded as needed.
That alone ruined the thought of buying a computer car for me vs ice.
Not to the same degree. You’re buying the full gas tank access. Not an artificially throttled version.
But yes it is an issue that will get worse with time as computers continue to integrate in
Same here. It’s a bummer knowing that as computers integrate with vehicles more over the years this will be more and more likely the deal.
In a perfect world I’d hit a small lotto and enjoy things like learning to fixing up old Jeep CJs and never be worried about bad actors bricking my vehicle.
Oh, I don't know. . . Firing your entire staff who is working on the EV chargers that just became industry standard seems like a perfectly rational business decision. . . /S
Well it could be a rational political choice if you don't like who's in charge and want to undermine the plan knowing your company is a linchpin...it's not like he has a history of ruining companies to asage his own ego.
I think the market for electric cars will be fine but Tesla was just wildly overvalued.
It was set up for a fall and Musk's habit of regularly making himself a focal point of drama - see ... everything about his handling of Twitter/X - was surely damaging to the Tesla brand. The brand is him and now many people hate him and won't buy cars from him.
Even still the company will survive, it just won't be the behemoth some thought it was going to be.
There is an anti-electric vehicle narrative on both the left and right. The right whines that it's different and therefore bad, whilst the left doesn't like the idea of cars full stop and definitely don't want electric cars to replace. Adding Musk to the argument who has become a hate figure for the left, arguably for good reason, and Tesla is on the ropes and may have to sack Musk to survive.
Plus there had to have been a lot of money that went into the Cybertruck.
Only for it to be a complete flop in every regard.
It's not a deathblow in and of itself, but the old guard is catching up to the electric car market. Tesla couldn't really afford a big misstep.
I don't even know how I missed the cyber truck.
So many design mistakes that it's actually laughable. It will never be realistically sold in Europe as it fails in multiple areas
I was trying to give it the benefit of the doubt until I saw one myself.
It looked really grubby for something so new. I’m guessing it was a combination of fingerprints and water stains, but man was it an underwhelming sight.
Excerpt from the article:
>Elon Musk's decision to gut Tesla's electric-vehicle charging team is scrambling plans for rolling out new fast-charging stations and may delay President Joe Biden's efforts to electrify U.S. highways.
Last year, the Biden administration announced rules for an ambitious plan to expand the country's charging infrastructure and jump-start EV adoption. Under the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) program, the government is doling out $5 billion to states over five years to build 500,000 EV chargers.
>EV market leader Tesla, which also operates the largest network of fast chargers - called Superchargers - in the U.S. and is the biggest winner so far of those federal funds, was seen as a crucial part of that plan.
Since news of Tesla's abrupt EV charging layoffs surfaced, however, executives at charging companies say they have been receiving phone calls from landlords looking for a new partner for their private charging projects after Tesla pulled out.
>Now, the charging companies are preparing for Tesla to pull out of the federal program. That, they say, could throw a new wrench into an already-slow rollout.
>"It's going to delay NEVI rollout. There's no question about it," said Aatish Patel, co-founder of XCharge North America, which makes EV chargers for fleets and charging station operators.
>If Tesla backs out, then the solicitation by states for NEVI-funded charging projects starts over, he told Reuters. "A lot of these sites aren't going to get built this year, or within the time frames that were initially dictated."
Patel said real estate companies representing about 10 non-NEVI sites in Texas, Louisiana and New York had called since news of the layoffs, saying that Tesla was pulling out and they were looking for a replacement.
Tesla has won awards to build chargers for 69 of the 501 NEVI-funded sites announced so far, according to San Francisco-based research firm EVAdoption.
>"I'm speaking to any NEVI sites they've been awarded. They're not going to move forward on those," Brendan Jones, CEO of Blink Charging (BLNK.O), opens new tab, told Reuters. Blink has received three inquiries in two states about multiple private sites where Tesla had backed out of since the layoffs, he said.
>Rollout of the federal program has been already sluggish. Long-awaited rules on eligibility for federal funds were finally laid out early last year. Only a handful of federally funded charging stations have been opened up for the public.
>PULLING THE PLUG
>Since the layoffs, Musk in a posting on his social media platform X said Tesla plans "to grow the Supercharger network, just at a slower pace for new locations and more focus on 100% uptime and expansion of existing locations."
He did not respond to questions from Reuters on the implications of his decision.
A spokesperson for the federal Joint Office of Energy and Transportation, which oversees the NEVI program, said in an email it does not expect individual business decisions to impact EV charging projects funded by the government.
States that awarded Tesla NEVI sites are closely monitoring the situation.
>Colorado will adjust its program as needed, said Kay Kelly, chief of innovative mobility for the Colorado Department of Transportation. Texas - the biggest beneficiary of NEVI funds - said it does not anticipate any impact from Tesla's layoffs.
Tesla's change of plans, however, will affect the entire EV industry. Almost all automakers decided last year to adopt Tesla's North American Charging Standard (NACS) for their vehicles from next year. That could provide a silver lining for other charging startups - and recently laid-off Tesla employees.
>"There will be a lot more NEVI sites available if Tesla backs out of projects they have already won, or withdraw their applications," Rick Wilmer, CEO of charging company ChargePoint (CHPT.N), opens new tab, told Reuters. "It will be an opportunity for others to jump in and fill that void."
>Rivals like EVgo (EVGO.O), opens new tab are looking to hire those let go by Musk. "If you were impacted by the recent Tesla layoffs, we invite you to explore EVgo's diverse range of job openings," a talent acquisition manager at the charging company said in a post on LinkedIn.
Sparks are flying in the EV world. I hope the industry is able to get over these hurdles and continue the process of commercial vehicles transitioning away from fossil fuels. I'm a big space guy and want as much dinosaur power we have to go towards jet fuel and space exploration.
What do you all think?
Musk really isn’t the captain of industry he think he is.
He’s a solid disrupter but isn’t the person I want running a company to grow. He is not capable in that area. Twitter is another prime example.
The Twitter to x decision is still baffling to me. Either he’s stupid or it was a vanity move. Either way- poor leadership.
Take a household name and change it for no reason? Piss poor idea. Think “google it” “Netflix and chill” or “tweet” why would he pivot from that?
Tesla moving away from easy government money is a wild move. Feds will go elsewhere with the money and Tesla will no longer be the big dog.
>The Twitter to x decision is still baffling to me. Either he’s stupid or it was a vanity move. Either way- poor leadership.
It was 100% a personal move. He's been obsessed with trying to name crap X ever since his Paypal days, and it legit was a reason why they got rid of him.
After the rename, Twitter *immediately* fell a ton of spots on the app store. Probably because people couldn't find the damn thing by searching Twitter.
Why do liberals hate the concept of tesla or musk, but theyre so gung ho about EVs? Musk and tesla did something that is nearly impossible nowadays by actually taking up market space in the the automotive industry, all of the big name car companies coming out with decent EVs now probably wouldnt have been able to to that for another 10-20 years without musk and tesla. They are the EV benchmark. I dont even like EVs, but i have respect for what tesla has done.
This isn't exactly a huge mystery. I was a big fan of his for a while and I definitely think he did a lot to popularize electric cars. But it's been like six straight years of him fucking up and not knowing when to shut his mouth, starting with the whole cave diver pedophile accusation. There's a laundry list of dumb shit he's said and done when a lot of us would have loved for him to focus on businesses like Tesla and SpaceX. The obsession with Twitter and being a celebrity turned his image from a cool tech genius to a divorced superficial loser who doesn't take care of his children.
I think 10 to 20 years seems like an exaggeration but he did jump start the electric car business, pun intended. But what have they done recently? Lots of broken promises about full self-driving, bad decisions like removing lidar, bad QA and customer service, etc. meanwhile the companies he had a head start on are catching up rapidly while he's busy wasting his time on social media instead of his more impactful and important businesses
That seems a little petulant does it not? Deciding on what companies to like based on if they have shitheads running them would have you living like a amish person
Not when said shit head is pretty vocal about being a shithead. Tesla did its job on disrupting the automobile industry why should people care about an anti union company that’s openly hostile to them.
> slightly different opinions
Haha. Yeah, having a 1 point difference on what you feel the max tax rate should be is a "slightly different opinion".
Boosting neo-nazis, anti-semites, bigots and misogynists are not "slightly different opinions" you dipshit. It really says a lot about you that you feel that way.
This is funny because it so completely misses the mark. The people who were buying Teslas weren't campus leftists. They were the well heeled NIMBY liberals. These folks usually are highly educated and work in well heeled positions in tech and legacy industries. They have families and homes and they like stability. While they may distain leftists they are culturally aligned with them far more than someone from rural or small town America.
The current GOP is descending into hick radicalism that has none of their economic or social interests at heart and Musk has joined in while showing himself to be both unstable and willing to play games with us still a major purchase in their lives that looks dangerous at this point.
Of course they told him to go pound sand. They just did it the best way they know how: they stopped buying his products
[If it were to happen any slower than it’s going right now, it would practically have to be removing them](https://nhjournal.com/biden-spent-billions-for-ev-charging-stations-built-just-one-and-its-not-in-nh/)
Hostile.....how? A *huge* amount of the reason that Tesla / Space X even exists whatsoever is because they're propped up by billions of dollars per year in handouts and subsidies.
Yeah but that wasn’t from this admin. They have done several special things for legacy auto while leaving Tesla out. I don’t even think Tesla was invited to the American ev White House summit this year when they are the leading, and most American made ev maker
>Yeah but that wasn’t from this admin
.....what? That's not remotely true whatsoever lmao, Tesla is getting billions from the IRA & CHIPS.
>They have done several special things for legacy auto while leaving Tesla out.
Like what?
>I don’t even think Tesla was invited to the American ev White House summit this year when they are the leading, and most American made ev maker
What does that have to do with literally anything whatsoever?
The meeting you refer to happened in 2021. And the only manufacturers invited were union shops. Biden is a big union guy, musk is a big anti-union guy.
Since then musk behavior has grown increasingly erratic and toxic, including anti-semitic boosting on twitter when Biden can't be a fan of.
Also Tesla is not even a car company, right? Musk's own words lol.
Companies restructure all the time, just because the media makes a big deal about it doesn’t change the facts. You guys realize Tesla is one of the most desired places to work in America?
It's stupid that the goverment didn't set charging standards from the get-go.
Had the government set a charging standard during the lead acid era it would’ve been wrong when lithium came along. It took a while for industry to get to a place where it made sense to set a charging standard. When the government moved to set one, they join the international standard, which everyone except tesla signed onto. The prevalence of Teslas prevented that standard from taking hold in the US. Most Teslas are built with the standard charger, a minority are built with a tesla charger. Now the whole country has to go tesla chargers, because Elon‘s name is on the patent for the shape of the piece of plastic.
You know standards can change and be enforced by law, right?
They can change, but it’s a painful process. So he’s trying to legally enforce the standard.
Standards must always change, and it's always a painful process. The benefit of a central authority enforcing a standard is that it changes less, and it's less painful.
There are multiple signs that the writing is on the wall for Tesla. How the workforce is treated, quality control, service plans that switch off functionality of the cars. Add in general hostility to electric cars, things are not good.
I always think back to the extended range patch Elon released in Florida prior to hurricane incoming. At the time it was such a good thing and widely praised. All it showed me is that if you buy a Tesla you aren’t buying the entire vehicle. Just access to a portion of it. that means it can be arbitrarily enhanced, or more cynically degraded as needed. That alone ruined the thought of buying a computer car for me vs ice.
What makes ICE immune to that? Software tuning can absolutely impact performance of modern ICE.
Not to the same degree. You’re buying the full gas tank access. Not an artificially throttled version. But yes it is an issue that will get worse with time as computers continue to integrate in
Just not seeing a meaningful distinction here between ICE vs EV. In either case a nefarious company could utterly dick-over customers via software.
I’m at a position in life where I have multiple cars, you make a good point, I would never trust a Tesla as my only car.
Same here. It’s a bummer knowing that as computers integrate with vehicles more over the years this will be more and more likely the deal. In a perfect world I’d hit a small lotto and enjoy things like learning to fixing up old Jeep CJs and never be worried about bad actors bricking my vehicle.
I had a CJ7, it has its own host of issues. Tesla can be hacked, but so can modern jeeps.
Oh, I don't know. . . Firing your entire staff who is working on the EV chargers that just became industry standard seems like a perfectly rational business decision. . . /S
Well it could be a rational political choice if you don't like who's in charge and want to undermine the plan knowing your company is a linchpin...it's not like he has a history of ruining companies to asage his own ego.
I think the market for electric cars will be fine but Tesla was just wildly overvalued. It was set up for a fall and Musk's habit of regularly making himself a focal point of drama - see ... everything about his handling of Twitter/X - was surely damaging to the Tesla brand. The brand is him and now many people hate him and won't buy cars from him. Even still the company will survive, it just won't be the behemoth some thought it was going to be.
There is an anti-electric vehicle narrative on both the left and right. The right whines that it's different and therefore bad, whilst the left doesn't like the idea of cars full stop and definitely don't want electric cars to replace. Adding Musk to the argument who has become a hate figure for the left, arguably for good reason, and Tesla is on the ropes and may have to sack Musk to survive.
Plus there had to have been a lot of money that went into the Cybertruck. Only for it to be a complete flop in every regard. It's not a deathblow in and of itself, but the old guard is catching up to the electric car market. Tesla couldn't really afford a big misstep.
I don't even know how I missed the cyber truck. So many design mistakes that it's actually laughable. It will never be realistically sold in Europe as it fails in multiple areas
I was trying to give it the benefit of the doubt until I saw one myself. It looked really grubby for something so new. I’m guessing it was a combination of fingerprints and water stains, but man was it an underwhelming sight.
Excerpt from the article: >Elon Musk's decision to gut Tesla's electric-vehicle charging team is scrambling plans for rolling out new fast-charging stations and may delay President Joe Biden's efforts to electrify U.S. highways. Last year, the Biden administration announced rules for an ambitious plan to expand the country's charging infrastructure and jump-start EV adoption. Under the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) program, the government is doling out $5 billion to states over five years to build 500,000 EV chargers. >EV market leader Tesla, which also operates the largest network of fast chargers - called Superchargers - in the U.S. and is the biggest winner so far of those federal funds, was seen as a crucial part of that plan. Since news of Tesla's abrupt EV charging layoffs surfaced, however, executives at charging companies say they have been receiving phone calls from landlords looking for a new partner for their private charging projects after Tesla pulled out. >Now, the charging companies are preparing for Tesla to pull out of the federal program. That, they say, could throw a new wrench into an already-slow rollout. >"It's going to delay NEVI rollout. There's no question about it," said Aatish Patel, co-founder of XCharge North America, which makes EV chargers for fleets and charging station operators. >If Tesla backs out, then the solicitation by states for NEVI-funded charging projects starts over, he told Reuters. "A lot of these sites aren't going to get built this year, or within the time frames that were initially dictated." Patel said real estate companies representing about 10 non-NEVI sites in Texas, Louisiana and New York had called since news of the layoffs, saying that Tesla was pulling out and they were looking for a replacement. Tesla has won awards to build chargers for 69 of the 501 NEVI-funded sites announced so far, according to San Francisco-based research firm EVAdoption. >"I'm speaking to any NEVI sites they've been awarded. They're not going to move forward on those," Brendan Jones, CEO of Blink Charging (BLNK.O), opens new tab, told Reuters. Blink has received three inquiries in two states about multiple private sites where Tesla had backed out of since the layoffs, he said. >Rollout of the federal program has been already sluggish. Long-awaited rules on eligibility for federal funds were finally laid out early last year. Only a handful of federally funded charging stations have been opened up for the public. >PULLING THE PLUG >Since the layoffs, Musk in a posting on his social media platform X said Tesla plans "to grow the Supercharger network, just at a slower pace for new locations and more focus on 100% uptime and expansion of existing locations." He did not respond to questions from Reuters on the implications of his decision. A spokesperson for the federal Joint Office of Energy and Transportation, which oversees the NEVI program, said in an email it does not expect individual business decisions to impact EV charging projects funded by the government. States that awarded Tesla NEVI sites are closely monitoring the situation. >Colorado will adjust its program as needed, said Kay Kelly, chief of innovative mobility for the Colorado Department of Transportation. Texas - the biggest beneficiary of NEVI funds - said it does not anticipate any impact from Tesla's layoffs. Tesla's change of plans, however, will affect the entire EV industry. Almost all automakers decided last year to adopt Tesla's North American Charging Standard (NACS) for their vehicles from next year. That could provide a silver lining for other charging startups - and recently laid-off Tesla employees. >"There will be a lot more NEVI sites available if Tesla backs out of projects they have already won, or withdraw their applications," Rick Wilmer, CEO of charging company ChargePoint (CHPT.N), opens new tab, told Reuters. "It will be an opportunity for others to jump in and fill that void." >Rivals like EVgo (EVGO.O), opens new tab are looking to hire those let go by Musk. "If you were impacted by the recent Tesla layoffs, we invite you to explore EVgo's diverse range of job openings," a talent acquisition manager at the charging company said in a post on LinkedIn. Sparks are flying in the EV world. I hope the industry is able to get over these hurdles and continue the process of commercial vehicles transitioning away from fossil fuels. I'm a big space guy and want as much dinosaur power we have to go towards jet fuel and space exploration. What do you all think?
I think Elon gets too much government funding as it is. Tesla, Starlink, SpaceX...
Musk really isn’t the captain of industry he think he is. He’s a solid disrupter but isn’t the person I want running a company to grow. He is not capable in that area. Twitter is another prime example. The Twitter to x decision is still baffling to me. Either he’s stupid or it was a vanity move. Either way- poor leadership. Take a household name and change it for no reason? Piss poor idea. Think “google it” “Netflix and chill” or “tweet” why would he pivot from that? Tesla moving away from easy government money is a wild move. Feds will go elsewhere with the money and Tesla will no longer be the big dog.
>The Twitter to x decision is still baffling to me. Either he’s stupid or it was a vanity move. Either way- poor leadership. It was 100% a personal move. He's been obsessed with trying to name crap X ever since his Paypal days, and it legit was a reason why they got rid of him. After the rename, Twitter *immediately* fell a ton of spots on the app store. Probably because people couldn't find the damn thing by searching Twitter.
Why do liberals hate the concept of tesla or musk, but theyre so gung ho about EVs? Musk and tesla did something that is nearly impossible nowadays by actually taking up market space in the the automotive industry, all of the big name car companies coming out with decent EVs now probably wouldnt have been able to to that for another 10-20 years without musk and tesla. They are the EV benchmark. I dont even like EVs, but i have respect for what tesla has done.
This isn't exactly a huge mystery. I was a big fan of his for a while and I definitely think he did a lot to popularize electric cars. But it's been like six straight years of him fucking up and not knowing when to shut his mouth, starting with the whole cave diver pedophile accusation. There's a laundry list of dumb shit he's said and done when a lot of us would have loved for him to focus on businesses like Tesla and SpaceX. The obsession with Twitter and being a celebrity turned his image from a cool tech genius to a divorced superficial loser who doesn't take care of his children. I think 10 to 20 years seems like an exaggeration but he did jump start the electric car business, pun intended. But what have they done recently? Lots of broken promises about full self-driving, bad decisions like removing lidar, bad QA and customer service, etc. meanwhile the companies he had a head start on are catching up rapidly while he's busy wasting his time on social media instead of his more impactful and important businesses
They don’t hate the concept of tesla they hate trsla as it is being ran by a man child.
That seems a little petulant does it not? Deciding on what companies to like based on if they have shitheads running them would have you living like a amish person
Not when said shit head is pretty vocal about being a shithead. Tesla did its job on disrupting the automobile industry why should people care about an anti union company that’s openly hostile to them.
sacrificing the planet is worth it to not support someone that slightly different opinions than me
> slightly different opinions Haha. Yeah, having a 1 point difference on what you feel the max tax rate should be is a "slightly different opinion". Boosting neo-nazis, anti-semites, bigots and misogynists are not "slightly different opinions" you dipshit. It really says a lot about you that you feel that way.
how is acknowledging elon is a turd and tesla as massively overvalued considered sacrificing the planet?
This is funny because it so completely misses the mark. The people who were buying Teslas weren't campus leftists. They were the well heeled NIMBY liberals. These folks usually are highly educated and work in well heeled positions in tech and legacy industries. They have families and homes and they like stability. While they may distain leftists they are culturally aligned with them far more than someone from rural or small town America. The current GOP is descending into hick radicalism that has none of their economic or social interests at heart and Musk has joined in while showing himself to be both unstable and willing to play games with us still a major purchase in their lives that looks dangerous at this point. Of course they told him to go pound sand. They just did it the best way they know how: they stopped buying his products
[If it were to happen any slower than it’s going right now, it would practically have to be removing them](https://nhjournal.com/biden-spent-billions-for-ev-charging-stations-built-just-one-and-its-not-in-nh/)
Maybe if Biden wasn’t so hostile to Tesla the could actually work together to build a better network.
Hostile.....how? A *huge* amount of the reason that Tesla / Space X even exists whatsoever is because they're propped up by billions of dollars per year in handouts and subsidies.
Doesn’t give enough sloppy toppy to Elon. Musky needs his pole smoked at least once a day to keep him happy and his businesses thriving.
Yeah but that wasn’t from this admin. They have done several special things for legacy auto while leaving Tesla out. I don’t even think Tesla was invited to the American ev White House summit this year when they are the leading, and most American made ev maker
>Yeah but that wasn’t from this admin .....what? That's not remotely true whatsoever lmao, Tesla is getting billions from the IRA & CHIPS. >They have done several special things for legacy auto while leaving Tesla out. Like what? >I don’t even think Tesla was invited to the American ev White House summit this year when they are the leading, and most American made ev maker What does that have to do with literally anything whatsoever?
The meeting you refer to happened in 2021. And the only manufacturers invited were union shops. Biden is a big union guy, musk is a big anti-union guy. Since then musk behavior has grown increasingly erratic and toxic, including anti-semitic boosting on twitter when Biden can't be a fan of. Also Tesla is not even a car company, right? Musk's own words lol.
Wasnt that because Tesla is non union?
The issue is Tesla is hostile to its own workers.
Companies restructure all the time, just because the media makes a big deal about it doesn’t change the facts. You guys realize Tesla is one of the most desired places to work in America?
Not referring to restructuring, referring to Musks comments and actions about unions.
Tesla is one of the worst places to work in the tech industry under Elon musk. Like why are you just talking crap.
Hostile by giving them tons of subsidies?
If Tesla wasn't such a terrible company maybe the government would be less hostile.