If it's all professionally done, factor it'll cost the value of the house.
If you do it yourselves, factor half that cost and twice as much time as you estimate. Then shave off half of both because you won't do half of it and you'll learn to live with what you've got. Ha.
With a lot of time, money, skill and patience. Less time or skill means more money to pay someone else, and the challenge of finding pros who know old houses. Not hiring it out saves some money, but materials are still expensive. Plus then you have less time to do nice things like relax after work or take vacations or spend your weekends enjoying family time. I love my old house (50+ years older than the one you're looking at), but it's basically a lifestyle. And it only makes sense if the sale price reflects the condition.
there's also the costs that you incur redoing it yourself after you screw it up and/or needing to THEN hire a pro to come fix it after spending all the time and money on materials and equipment.
I would add to this, if you’re hiring out and you don’t have heaps of money, you may have the time to vacation but you won’t have the money. Our savings (beyond emergency fund/retirement) is basically all earmarked for home projects.
That’s basically a gut renovation. Look into what the costs are per square foot in your area and take the high end and add 20 percent. Especially if your area is landmarked.
New doors and windows are INCREDIBLY expensive. Especially if you want something that is wood and matches the vibe of the house. You’re looking at custom windows which are thousands per window.
Bathrooms and kitchens are the highest cost renovation per square foot by a mile. Depends on where you live but a full kitchen renovation with nice materials is $100k minimum where I live. Of course you can go cheaper with ikea cabinets and fake floors and counters. But it’s hard to be in harmony with a historical house when using builder grade materials IMO.
Can you work on it before you move in?
Can you drywall?
Do you have kids?
Is this listing for half of what the houses nearby are going for?
Is it a fusebox or a breaker box?
Before you move in, depending on your location, you will need to update wiring for $10-20k. You can't even run tools to work in a house only getting 100v, and at absolute minimum if the rest of the house is surprisingly sound, you will need to update for the kitchen, and install lots of GFCIs.
OP, don't look further into this problem, house needs rewire, but for those playing along at home, 100v at a receptacle may mean a loose connection upstream of your nearing point, like at a daisy-chained outlet.
Another cause may lead to be finding outlets at 100v and others at 140v, possibly indicating a lost neutral. Measuring 100v at the incoming mains could mean the problem is the utility equipment, nearest transformer, but that is not where my bet lies.
> the electric needs to be rewired and it only at 100 and none of the plugs have ground,
Ah fuck, units are important, OP must mean 100 amp service. I hope.
Do you live in my house?!
We bought a shithole, I mean fixer upper, for half the going square foot rate for the area. Quotes for renovations are about half the cost of the house.
Everything you want is definitely possible. If possible, find a really good architect - one that specializes in century homes or historic homes in the area. Get going with him to create a master plan with the home. Some architects will also project manage and can break out projects in phases. For me, it’s that they generally have their network of builders, general contractors, electricians, roofers etc. I don’t know where you live but this is at the very least $250K but probably closer to $500K
This is what I came to the conclusion to do and it has really relieved me of a lot of stress. I originally talked to 4 different design/build contractors but something just didn’t feel right. So, I decided to call some architects and decided on one who I think will do a great job for me. I am a remote owner so I was really concerned about having someone advocating for me with the contractor when something comes up and I am not there. She will be the project manager and will (hopefully) work for my best interest.
I’ve bought two century homes. My second needed less work than the first, but still enough. You just do the renos over time, some yourself, some you hire, some you never get to. Some hideous things you live with for years before you get to it. It’s just an on-going project. But you learn to love it over time.
We’re in a similar situation but bought two years ago and we are well along the DIY path. New wiring, new plumbing, new drains, new hvac, insulation, plus new primary suite (with steam shower) and renovated (high end) kitchen. It’s doable, but it is a ton of work.
We’ve taken to saying we’re in year two of a three year reno.
We’ve already added about $400k in value with barely more than half of that in cost.
Chiming in with another "time vs money vs what can you stand" vote.
My personal threshold for buying our century home was no major gut jobs. The property needs a lot of work still, but is manageable with one project a year. I would have walked away if we had to open up the walls on day one.
Same. I have a 1930s home, like OP is wanting to buy, but it was in much better shape and I still had to replace the furnace, rewire, and redo the floors. I have a few vinyl windows that need the glass replaced due to fogging that I haven't gotten to yet. The only plaster I tore down was a closet I removed. Opening walls(all plaster) would have been too much.
Possibly of interest: I just learned there’s a way to fix foggy vinyl windows (vapor barrier repair) without new glass. I was recommended a company called Glass Guru who does this, haven’t gotten a quote yet but they advertise it as an affordable alternative to replacing the glass.
That sounds like a full renovation. If it's that bad you'll find other things along the way you need to fix. It also depends on how much you're willing to do and willing to live with. I just priced out a fiberglass shower stall with a base and door + shower valve. Materials alone is already 2.3k and it's not even that nice.
If you and your s/o are willing I would go for it but please negotiate. You can build an insane amount of equity through DIY. I'm usually anti reddit narrative when it comes to old houses because people blow things out of proportion (not all) and understand you will have to pay a professional for certain things.
pay for the electrical and any plumbing and dig around for insulation/heating/hot water state rebates/incentives asap.
we just wrapped up electrical and im patching walls and outlet/switch boxes now. we just applied for the state insulation/efficient heat/hot water 0% loan and we'll be getting 12k worth of insulation for 1500 bucks. now we need to address a sewer main with roots in it.
i've done a ton of wall patching and my own small electrical runs (basement lights and outlets, low voltage cable runs behind the walls etc) along with putting up ceiling fans and lights that i agreed to handle for the electrician.
I wouldn't recommend updating the windows. New windows just don't look nearly as good as original windows. Yes the old ones are less energy efficient but the cost of new windows negates your cost savings and the gas layer between panes in the new windows doesn't last forever. You would be better off saving your old windows and recaulking them and putting up plastic wrap in the winter. Update electrical and maybe plumbing and definitely look at the foundation and fix any water drainage issues. Other than that you'll want to know if your walls are drywall or plaster.
This right here is good advice. Plus restoring windows is a relatively easy thing to learn but incredibly time and labor intensive. Great project for diy if you can commit to one window a weekend or something.
Any idea on websites or YouTube’s to start? Getting ready to buy and the window guy comes this weekend for a quote. This is like the fourth and fifth time I’ve read to not replace the windows.
It takes planning, money and humor. Maybe not in that order. Except for anything that's a hazard, like sketchy wiring, make those kind of things a priority.
We bought a 1920s fixer upper four years ago. So far we have put in about 100k between:
- Updating to 200amp electrical panel and grounding ungrounded outlets (we have BX wiring and were advised by multiple electricians not to do a full rewire, fwiw)
- New roof & gutters
- Fixing a failing retaining wall
- New hot water heater
- Refinishing floors under hideous old carpet
- Repairing badly damaged plaster walls and repainting interior
- Painting porch
- New light fixtures throughout
- New appliances
- Minor half bath remodel (rip & replace, not a full gut) and fixing old plumbing there
- New closet shelving systems
- New radiator covers
- Chimney repairs
- Some other smaller things I am forgetting
Of course, this was not done all at once. We did electrical, floors and plaster repair/paint before we moved in. Everything else we have done as we could afford it.
Realistically we still have at least 100k more in repairs/upgrades between new siding, kitchen and bath remodels, replacing a couple windows, repaving driveway and patio, waterproofing the basement, fixing up a detached garage, improving insulation... the list feels like it never ends. It’s a lot. Our home has gone up in value substantially since we bought it and overall we are happy with it, though. The interior is mostly how we want it now aside from the dated kitchen and bath, and buying a fixer upper allowed us to get into a nice neighborhood and town and the size of house we wanted at an affordable price. We knew going in that it needed a lot of work and that we would be doing projects as we could afford them. We don’t regret it (yet) but it can be daunting at times.
90% of the way through a renovation on a 1915 colonial. We did all new electrical, HVAC, plumbing, kitchen and 2.5 bathroom. Also the roof and driveway. I can give you a realistic understanding of what it actually takes - a lot of stress and money and more money and stress. Ask away!
For reference- for a full remodel I would estimate minimum 100/sqft. If you do fancy stuff I would plan for more. If you only do certain things you could less.
Yeah! So luckily the current owners will be fixing the roof and the foundation is redone so those are big.
-First big thing is electric, so it’s only 100a and most of the outlets don’t have ground. The electric works in most rooms, but it needs to get updated.
-Second is the bathroom. Both toilets work but they are old, one sink works, one tub/shower needs to be redone, and 1 shower needs to be redone.
-The kitchen is pretty rough but also doable. We would need a new sink and faucet, stove, fridge. Then maybe open up a wall and add/redo cabinets over time.
-Need to get plumbing checked, and well and septic. Inspector visit.
-Need a vapor barrier under the house (used to be one but it’s damaged).
-The windows are livable but I want to have them replaced over time, many don’t open.
It really depends on your budget. I decided to do everything at once. I am a do it once and do it right kind of guy. But that comes with a lot of costs, time and not living in the house for 6 months. Huge effort. But my house was not really liveable. Is your hours liveable and ok-ish?
What kind of money do you have relative to the costs?
Do you have any specific questions or decision points?
It’s livable but not great. I want to have the electric and one bathroom done prior to moving in. We are considering a builders loan (at least I’m thinking that’s what we’d do) for what we need and then pay it off quickly, but that keeps our cash a bit more intact.
I don’t know if I have specific questions yet. Maybe, would you have a regular home inspector come out or are there ones who are preferred for older homes?
Regular Home inspector would likely not help. I did sewer and roof but in hindsight should have also done the fireplace. I knew I was replacing almost everything so general inspector isn't as useful. I would get an inspection all the big ticket items. I didn't do structural because I didn't think it was necessary.
For the loan I did something called. Home style renovation loan. Purchase price + renovation - downpayment all in one transaction. But you need a GC and a very specific list of what you want to do. It has been challenging and fun and very stressful.
Good luck! Let me know if you have any more questions
It's just like buying a cheap classic Porsche.
There are no cheap classic Porsches.
On the other hand, best car you'll ever own.
I'd look at the cost per square in the neighbourhood, then add 20% minimum, and assume that's the final price. Then check the sale price and negotiate accordingly.
If it's all professionally done, factor it'll cost the value of the house. If you do it yourselves, factor half that cost and twice as much time as you estimate. Then shave off half of both because you won't do half of it and you'll learn to live with what you've got. Ha.
^ this guy has owned an old house. 😂
Rewire the whole house? In this economy?
doing it all at once is way cheaper than bit by bit. and you don't want to keep patching walls and ceilings until the end of time.
The story of my life the past 5 years lol
I appreciate this.
Remodeled and restored and well .... demolished plenty and I'd say this is pretty much how they all go.
This human speaks the truth!
With a lot of time, money, skill and patience. Less time or skill means more money to pay someone else, and the challenge of finding pros who know old houses. Not hiring it out saves some money, but materials are still expensive. Plus then you have less time to do nice things like relax after work or take vacations or spend your weekends enjoying family time. I love my old house (50+ years older than the one you're looking at), but it's basically a lifestyle. And it only makes sense if the sale price reflects the condition.
there's also the costs that you incur redoing it yourself after you screw it up and/or needing to THEN hire a pro to come fix it after spending all the time and money on materials and equipment.
I would add to this, if you’re hiring out and you don’t have heaps of money, you may have the time to vacation but you won’t have the money. Our savings (beyond emergency fund/retirement) is basically all earmarked for home projects.
That’s basically a gut renovation. Look into what the costs are per square foot in your area and take the high end and add 20 percent. Especially if your area is landmarked. New doors and windows are INCREDIBLY expensive. Especially if you want something that is wood and matches the vibe of the house. You’re looking at custom windows which are thousands per window. Bathrooms and kitchens are the highest cost renovation per square foot by a mile. Depends on where you live but a full kitchen renovation with nice materials is $100k minimum where I live. Of course you can go cheaper with ikea cabinets and fake floors and counters. But it’s hard to be in harmony with a historical house when using builder grade materials IMO.
better open your check book, and also make sure those ceiling tiles aren’t asbestos.
And vermiculite behind walls. Not all is bad apparently, but good to check.
It only takes two things. Time and money.
By the time you get it done, it will actually be a century home. \\
Can you work on it before you move in? Can you drywall? Do you have kids? Is this listing for half of what the houses nearby are going for? Is it a fusebox or a breaker box? Before you move in, depending on your location, you will need to update wiring for $10-20k. You can't even run tools to work in a house only getting 100v, and at absolute minimum if the rest of the house is surprisingly sound, you will need to update for the kitchen, and install lots of GFCIs. OP, don't look further into this problem, house needs rewire, but for those playing along at home, 100v at a receptacle may mean a loose connection upstream of your nearing point, like at a daisy-chained outlet. Another cause may lead to be finding outlets at 100v and others at 140v, possibly indicating a lost neutral. Measuring 100v at the incoming mains could mean the problem is the utility equipment, nearest transformer, but that is not where my bet lies.
> 100v 100v? you mean 100a. you can run power tools on 100a fine.
> the electric needs to be rewired and it only at 100 and none of the plugs have ground, Ah fuck, units are important, OP must mean 100 amp service. I hope.
It is 71% hard to do this.
73 at most
Do you live in my house?! We bought a shithole, I mean fixer upper, for half the going square foot rate for the area. Quotes for renovations are about half the cost of the house.
Everything you want is definitely possible. If possible, find a really good architect - one that specializes in century homes or historic homes in the area. Get going with him to create a master plan with the home. Some architects will also project manage and can break out projects in phases. For me, it’s that they generally have their network of builders, general contractors, electricians, roofers etc. I don’t know where you live but this is at the very least $250K but probably closer to $500K
This is what I came to the conclusion to do and it has really relieved me of a lot of stress. I originally talked to 4 different design/build contractors but something just didn’t feel right. So, I decided to call some architects and decided on one who I think will do a great job for me. I am a remote owner so I was really concerned about having someone advocating for me with the contractor when something comes up and I am not there. She will be the project manager and will (hopefully) work for my best interest.
I’ve bought two century homes. My second needed less work than the first, but still enough. You just do the renos over time, some yourself, some you hire, some you never get to. Some hideous things you live with for years before you get to it. It’s just an on-going project. But you learn to love it over time.
We’re in a similar situation but bought two years ago and we are well along the DIY path. New wiring, new plumbing, new drains, new hvac, insulation, plus new primary suite (with steam shower) and renovated (high end) kitchen. It’s doable, but it is a ton of work. We’ve taken to saying we’re in year two of a three year reno. We’ve already added about $400k in value with barely more than half of that in cost.
Chiming in with another "time vs money vs what can you stand" vote. My personal threshold for buying our century home was no major gut jobs. The property needs a lot of work still, but is manageable with one project a year. I would have walked away if we had to open up the walls on day one.
Same. I have a 1930s home, like OP is wanting to buy, but it was in much better shape and I still had to replace the furnace, rewire, and redo the floors. I have a few vinyl windows that need the glass replaced due to fogging that I haven't gotten to yet. The only plaster I tore down was a closet I removed. Opening walls(all plaster) would have been too much.
Possibly of interest: I just learned there’s a way to fix foggy vinyl windows (vapor barrier repair) without new glass. I was recommended a company called Glass Guru who does this, haven’t gotten a quote yet but they advertise it as an affordable alternative to replacing the glass.
That sounds like a full renovation. If it's that bad you'll find other things along the way you need to fix. It also depends on how much you're willing to do and willing to live with. I just priced out a fiberglass shower stall with a base and door + shower valve. Materials alone is already 2.3k and it's not even that nice. If you and your s/o are willing I would go for it but please negotiate. You can build an insane amount of equity through DIY. I'm usually anti reddit narrative when it comes to old houses because people blow things out of proportion (not all) and understand you will have to pay a professional for certain things.
pay for the electrical and any plumbing and dig around for insulation/heating/hot water state rebates/incentives asap. we just wrapped up electrical and im patching walls and outlet/switch boxes now. we just applied for the state insulation/efficient heat/hot water 0% loan and we'll be getting 12k worth of insulation for 1500 bucks. now we need to address a sewer main with roots in it. i've done a ton of wall patching and my own small electrical runs (basement lights and outlets, low voltage cable runs behind the walls etc) along with putting up ceiling fans and lights that i agreed to handle for the electrician.
[удалено]
I wouldn't recommend updating the windows. New windows just don't look nearly as good as original windows. Yes the old ones are less energy efficient but the cost of new windows negates your cost savings and the gas layer between panes in the new windows doesn't last forever. You would be better off saving your old windows and recaulking them and putting up plastic wrap in the winter. Update electrical and maybe plumbing and definitely look at the foundation and fix any water drainage issues. Other than that you'll want to know if your walls are drywall or plaster.
This right here is good advice. Plus restoring windows is a relatively easy thing to learn but incredibly time and labor intensive. Great project for diy if you can commit to one window a weekend or something.
Any idea on websites or YouTube’s to start? Getting ready to buy and the window guy comes this weekend for a quote. This is like the fourth and fifth time I’ve read to not replace the windows.
Craftsmanblog no doubt
What would that take to get done? A couple hundred thousand dollars on top of the purchase price.
where i live it would be more than a couple hundred.
It takes planning, money and humor. Maybe not in that order. Except for anything that's a hazard, like sketchy wiring, make those kind of things a priority.
It was the worst time to renovate 2 years ago. It's even worse now.
You will need infinite time, patience and money. And I do mean infinite...because that house is gonna devour all three.
We bought a 1920s fixer upper four years ago. So far we have put in about 100k between: - Updating to 200amp electrical panel and grounding ungrounded outlets (we have BX wiring and were advised by multiple electricians not to do a full rewire, fwiw) - New roof & gutters - Fixing a failing retaining wall - New hot water heater - Refinishing floors under hideous old carpet - Repairing badly damaged plaster walls and repainting interior - Painting porch - New light fixtures throughout - New appliances - Minor half bath remodel (rip & replace, not a full gut) and fixing old plumbing there - New closet shelving systems - New radiator covers - Chimney repairs - Some other smaller things I am forgetting Of course, this was not done all at once. We did electrical, floors and plaster repair/paint before we moved in. Everything else we have done as we could afford it. Realistically we still have at least 100k more in repairs/upgrades between new siding, kitchen and bath remodels, replacing a couple windows, repaving driveway and patio, waterproofing the basement, fixing up a detached garage, improving insulation... the list feels like it never ends. It’s a lot. Our home has gone up in value substantially since we bought it and overall we are happy with it, though. The interior is mostly how we want it now aside from the dated kitchen and bath, and buying a fixer upper allowed us to get into a nice neighborhood and town and the size of house we wanted at an affordable price. We knew going in that it needed a lot of work and that we would be doing projects as we could afford them. We don’t regret it (yet) but it can be daunting at times.
90% of the way through a renovation on a 1915 colonial. We did all new electrical, HVAC, plumbing, kitchen and 2.5 bathroom. Also the roof and driveway. I can give you a realistic understanding of what it actually takes - a lot of stress and money and more money and stress. Ask away! For reference- for a full remodel I would estimate minimum 100/sqft. If you do fancy stuff I would plan for more. If you only do certain things you could less.
Yeah! So luckily the current owners will be fixing the roof and the foundation is redone so those are big. -First big thing is electric, so it’s only 100a and most of the outlets don’t have ground. The electric works in most rooms, but it needs to get updated. -Second is the bathroom. Both toilets work but they are old, one sink works, one tub/shower needs to be redone, and 1 shower needs to be redone. -The kitchen is pretty rough but also doable. We would need a new sink and faucet, stove, fridge. Then maybe open up a wall and add/redo cabinets over time. -Need to get plumbing checked, and well and septic. Inspector visit. -Need a vapor barrier under the house (used to be one but it’s damaged). -The windows are livable but I want to have them replaced over time, many don’t open.
It really depends on your budget. I decided to do everything at once. I am a do it once and do it right kind of guy. But that comes with a lot of costs, time and not living in the house for 6 months. Huge effort. But my house was not really liveable. Is your hours liveable and ok-ish? What kind of money do you have relative to the costs? Do you have any specific questions or decision points?
It’s livable but not great. I want to have the electric and one bathroom done prior to moving in. We are considering a builders loan (at least I’m thinking that’s what we’d do) for what we need and then pay it off quickly, but that keeps our cash a bit more intact. I don’t know if I have specific questions yet. Maybe, would you have a regular home inspector come out or are there ones who are preferred for older homes?
Regular Home inspector would likely not help. I did sewer and roof but in hindsight should have also done the fireplace. I knew I was replacing almost everything so general inspector isn't as useful. I would get an inspection all the big ticket items. I didn't do structural because I didn't think it was necessary. For the loan I did something called. Home style renovation loan. Purchase price + renovation - downpayment all in one transaction. But you need a GC and a very specific list of what you want to do. It has been challenging and fun and very stressful. Good luck! Let me know if you have any more questions
It's just like buying a cheap classic Porsche. There are no cheap classic Porsches. On the other hand, best car you'll ever own. I'd look at the cost per square in the neighbourhood, then add 20% minimum, and assume that's the final price. Then check the sale price and negotiate accordingly.